I hope you cleaned all this contaminated site after your tests. I can see the crop fields near by. Do you know that lithium batteries are very toxic, especially when burning. You even spilled some water on punctured cells, which then ended up in the soil. The worst thing is that it was done by firefighters, as usually they are the persons who knows about such dangers. But not in this case, it seems they are stupid enough even to breath in the toxic fumes.
I knicked a lithium pouch with a box cutter in my bedroom :) I ran with it in my hand to the other end of the house to find the screen door locked! Grabbed the keys and unlocked the door, I threw the battery which was a massive smoke machine by then, before it hit the ground it burst into flames ! That was a close call ! Lesson learnt !
That screen door is almost certainly a fire code violation. A point of egress must not lock to the inside without a readily available means of unlocking it.
safety and energy density is always a engineering tradeoff. most of the more volatile chemistries are perfectly safe if treated right. but there is something to be said about using inherently safer chemistries for alot of applications.
Exactly. Li-PoL are very common because of their form factor compared to that of the others. You may say that they're super dangerous, but that's if you're excluding modern circuitry that commonly comes with said batteries effectively eliminating almost all of the risks. Similar way to Nuclear Power in a way. It is arguably one of the cleanest and most efficient energy production methods. Modern plants have many safety features making a meltdown very very unlikely. But due to it being also one of the most horrible disasters if it does go horribly wrong, a few accidents have put a bad taste in many people's mouths.
@Stratos Fear Nuclear power is safe if you follow proper guidelines too :) Jokes aside, nuclear power is the most efficient source of energy right now and also one of the cleanest at the same time. Sure there is nuclear waste, but there are reactors in development that can use said waste as fuel. The most used power plants are still coal ones and they are much worse ecologically than the nuclear ones. Not even mentioning that by burning coal, there are radioactive particles released into the air.
@@mode3763 Because of the "very smart" people that fear the Nuclear energy. Germany is great example. They had shut down their nuclear power plants, yet their renewable energy sources aren't sufficient enough for the country. They are buying energy from other countries - that energy is mostly produced by coal and nuclear power plants. For example, Czechia is the one country that is selling it's energy to Germany. And Czechs do not want to shut down their nuclear power plants even tho there are a lot of protests from their neighbours. They even plan on upgrading the existing powerplants to get more energy, because they know that coal will once dry up and nuclear is only viable option in this part of the world. Solar panels are utopian dream that will cost huge amount of money and will pollute our planet a lot if everyone will really switch to that. Not even mentioning the need of some sort of energy storage for winters, bad weather times etc. It will be probably huge battery banks, which will only last for few decades since you know, batteries, that will pollute our world so much, that those "very smart" people will regret not trusting Nuclear energy.
So,regardless of battery and application (other than cars) it looks like it would be a good idea that the battery box should be something like a wood stove /oil drum stove with a chimney that vents to the outside for solar and wind battery banks just for precautionary safety... This video just made me redesign my bank in my head over a power wall
we make battery bunkers for charging lipo batteries in the FPV RC drone hobby. its a fireproof brick stove, with a battery charger inside... our 6s 1500mah batteries could burn a house to the ground.
LiPol are mostly used in RC devices like planes and cars where performance is the most important (energy density and power density) safety is not a high priority in this application.
Interesting tests! What was the state of charge of the batteries? Note that the probability of a thermal runaway significantly drops at a low state of charge. This is especially important when buying cells that have been transported by air. Those are usually shipped at 30% SoC.
I've been telling people for years about the dangers of making a battery bank with Lipo batteries and those people looked at me like I was crazy. While LIFePo4 batteries will combust also. The chances of having an unpleasant reaction inside a structure is greatly reduced especially with a battery management system that can monitor the temperature and the individual charge on each battery in an array. The cases that house the electrolyte for LIFePo4 batteries are pretty resilient against physical damage. They are unlikely to be damaged unless someone uses a tomahawk like in the video or uses a wrench and physically short circuits the cells through stupidity. Remember a fuse is your friend, always use one of the correct rating. A breaker may not be so friendly.
Everyone should know about the occult and the evil in this world. And batteries are the main source. They're not allowed in hell because they're far too evil for hell that's why we have them here. Repent.
@@GWLPowered the test in the link indicates the gases contain hydrogen fluoride (HF) and phosphorus oxyfluoride (POF3). Nasty stuff. Good they don't burn, but don't be in the same room as one of those going off.
Thanks for the video👍 Well I would have liked to see the voltage, current and Wh and the cell should have been at the same ah. As you see some people seam to be confused and believe that the "safe" cell has the same energy density. The first thing to understand wit battery is that there is a trade off no matter what you do.
Good points. LTO have less than half the Wattage-density and are lower voltage too. They also have a more stable voltage loss during discharge, which is great for output usage but makes measuring their charge percentage less accurate.
@@JasonJrake Uh... LTO has a higher cell voltage than LFP. It does have lower Watt (VoltAmp) density. Will Prowse has a nice comparison of LFP to LTO here: th-cam.com/video/iOBSxEqXUQc/w-d-xo.html
@@kayzinti4452 I’ve seen that video and I’m not sure what you are referring to. The lowest listed nominal ratings i found online: for LTO is 2.4v, for LFP it’s 3.2v. Maybe cells arranged into 12+ volt stacks are higher voltage in LTO though, if that’s what you mean. The rule of thumb for lithium chemistries is that: As nominal voltage goes down, Discharge voltage slope flattens, Functional Temp range increases, Watt-hour density decreases, Safety increases.
all that protection yet only one dude was wearing eye protection, probably spent $50 grand to set up this test, must be government work lol. good video guys, weird music though
Been around for many years, but you don't find them in consumer products because normal li-ion cells have much higher energy density. Apparently, LTO cells are best used in orbital satellites, where they have to endure many thousands of charge-discharge cycles and have an extremely long calendar life.
LTO isn't very common due being rather large & expensive compared to other chemistries. But it's by far one of the safest and most reliable chemistries out there.
Unsafest fireman i ever seen with electronics. Suprised none of them for the exception of one wore a mask because Lithium batteries burning is highly toxic!
Yeah. Breathing smoke and vapors from something burning is one of the fastest ways to get poisoned. I was surprised at how few who were standing so close had no face protection.
I agree. More - This type of test is manipulated because LiFePO4 Cells will burn and blow up, too - if they are fully or overcharged! The smoke is burnable to! With this video you "fake" Security. This video is cut very forward to sell products.
@@jasonpotter4880 kind of like the DDT add from the 50s with a girl eating a hamburger while they sprayed DDT on her to prove how safe it is. She died rest her soul.
Overcharging circuitry is critical with those pouches. It's also necessary to seal properly; never pinch them on the top edge (or anywhere) like Samsung did with Galaxy Note 7.
It is the same technology on a different package. Both are based on the LiCoO2 chemistry. As an aside, the "Li-ion" designation covers many chemistries, including LiFePO4, but generically refers to the LiCoO2 chemistry.
LTO cells are supposed to be good for an enormous number of cycles and have an extremely long calendar life. The have lower energy density (store less energy for their size & weight) than either conventional li-ion or LiFeP04 cells.
LiFePO4 cells seems to be safe enough to replace the Li-ION cells inside my power bank. The hard part is to design a new charge controller PCB that fits the same space as the current one.
@Murphy deffa or lose half again and opt for LTO lol, thats what im doing, cause id rather have to lug around a huge battery than worry about my 200wh+ behemoth bursting into flames or a cloud of lethal smoke if something out of my control happened. cell level fusing and smart BMSs with extra failsafes are great and all but if something happens out of your control that bypasses those, some total black swan event you could never have seen coming, i dont know man but to me it seems worth it even if my phone will feel like carryign around a VHS tape...
@@doooofus i think it'll be bigger and heavier than a vhs tape. Just carry around a hand crank charger if you're so worried about your powerbank exploding. 🗿
@@aivarsaar Well you can do a away with a lot of cooling and make prismatic cells, gaining back about 20% of the capacity. Also they lose capacity slower, so after 5-6 years it will start closer together. On top of that, you can use then with both more and less charge, doing 0-100% instead of 20-85% in daily driving, while true, on long drives, the range will be shorter
I can help with that! I suggest: Batteries: hakadi makes some LiFePO4 cells that are much smaller than car batteries Circuitry: using 3 or 4 cells in series allows you to power a car adapter where you can then use USB ports to charge your phone.
the GenX "big battery" grid storage plant near Rockhampton Australia, had a fire in its Tesla supplied LiFePO4 batteries in 2023. 5.25 LoL........the smoke coming out of that cell is luckily being ventilated, because if it was in a confined space, it would likely build up and ignite.......put one of those in your home or RV etc at your own risk. The LTO looked the best, but they are pricey.
We use this one: shop.gwl.eu/Special-Products/Promo-lithium-battery-extinguishing-spray.html (in our battery workshop, we have also installed this: shop.gwl.eu/blog/Others/The-SAND-TUB--Get-ready-for-the-fire.html but that's only for pros 😎)
I recently had some basic training on this in my role as a firefighter. Obviously there is a cocktail of toxic chemicals given off there, the most worrying is hydrogen cyanide, as well as some highly flammable gases. Safe to say you do not want to breathe any of that in and any lithium batteries that are punctured or on fire are a serious hazard, especially in a confined space. Btw imo it was pointless these people observing these tests wearing “fire gear” (looked more like my sons dress up clothes though) if they were not wearing any face or eye protection (as others have already stated) but also RPE (aka respiratory protective equipment or breathing apparatus)! Yeah, great professionalism guys 🤦♂️
Lithium polymer. They bypassed the safety circuit on the lipo and also the charger. If you use a proper charger it's very safe. Most normal chargers won't be able to do the c rating a lipo will need to go up in flames. My charger is rated at 5amp I can charge a lipo at 5c. I do charge my xpower batteries at 2c no problem
What is the voltage supplied to each batteries when overcharging? The test should have been done with same package type of batteries and not different from one and other.
Does anyone know what device you need to get to check a battery is indeed as stated eg// AA battery 2950mah or 2800mah or an AAA battery 1100mah something to test wether or not its telling the truth?
It's called a battery analyzer. Basically it charges, discharges, and recharges the battery in sequence, and reports the amount of charge released during the discharge phase.
You had current, temperature and other measurements made. Why didn't you wrote it on the screen? Also LTO batteries' reaction to short circuit doesn't seem safe at all. Batteries squirting (probably) acid is not a desired thing...
The Other Technologies LFP and LTO What are these as I dont know the names of them. I'm impressed of those safer batteries that are what I may call self containing .
Under a normal battery charging process...I think most people would be using a smart battery charger, volt meter, temp probe, circuit breaker or fuse to prevent a fire or over charging situation.
Temperature probes, circuit breakers or fuses are not suitable to prevent over changing (charging above the design voltage). They are only suitable to prevent damage from high charging current. Without cell balancing even regulating the charging voltage does not protect from over charging.
Great video. Feedback: The experiments were conducted without a safety barrier. Your specialists were exposed to danger during the experiment. The specialist is invaluable even if his experience is little. Your beautiful experiences benefited us.
While the test could be made safer, absolutely. With all honesty, this wasn't our first experience with any of the showcased technology during similar critical situations. It was first where we filmed the results in somewhat representative manner. Still, next test videos will be improved primarily to educate everyone else, on the danger level during such testing. For example, it is why we have chosen very tiny LiPo based cells (18650 form on the video during the external fire test), because larger cells would be serious danger to the personel.
I've been looking into battery options for van building, and considered installing LTO 40ah batteries running parallel at 48volts. I then saw a video of Li-Pol batteries exploding after it was punctured and thought "fuck that i'm not gonna drive around as a mobile time bomb", but I'm glad I got to see this video and now know if it overheats/gets damaged there are self contained precautionary measures.
I'm using lto in my scooter and I'll never go back to 18650 li ion. The cells are so strong you can even charge and discharge them at high current and they will still last decades.
I respectfully disagree. They should have included that data b/c it's interesting & germane to the overall discussion of safety & performance tradeoffs between various battery chemistries
I think yes. Take into account that the electrolyte is either an organic liquid, some liquid lithium or water, for extra protection. Idk much about batteries
Really interesting to see that there is no safety discipline around such experiences (except for firefighters)! At a minimum, protective glasses for everyone.
What is your procedure for sudden battery explosion and shrapnel injury to those leaning their heads towards the tests to tie their shoes, or leaning forward to get a tiktok video to post online?
Why don't more manufacturers use LifePo4? Unless it's a really small device like a phone, the added energy density can't be that big? Seems like LifePO4 is ideal for a lot of medium sized consumer products.
Hi GWL and everyone, nice video! I would like to know if the gas coming out of the LiFePo4 battery is toxic? and also if it is flammable and also corrosive? I would like to install a bank of these batteries in a small RV (Motorhome) where we are going to sleep inside, eat and be in different places with extreme temperatures etc. In case of a problem, the safety valve of the prismatic batteries, are they a relief? to release gas in case of bloating. But I don't know if these gases are dangerous, corrosive, toxic, flammable if I light a cigarette or when cooking for example it can explode if a little gas is leaking and we don't see it??? Thanks!
The gases and fumes are extremely toxic! This ist NO steam....the electrolyte in the battery dissolves and releases in certain circumstances HF gas. Furthermore, the gas is flammable as you see. I repeat: inhaling those fumes is very dangerous 😞
We tested (timed links):
-----------
Overcharge
Li-Pol (0:24)
LTO (1:03)
LFP (1:28)
Short-Circuit
LTO (2:27)
LFP (3:02)
Puncture
LTO (3:54)
Li-Pol (4:28)
LFP (5:05)
External fire (ignition)
Li-Pol (6:17)
LTO (6:30)
LFP (6:56)
Weird @6:17. I have never seen a LiPo in an 18650 Li ion package before. Where did you get these?
Wow ...
@@headlessxp4948 lipol is a battery brand. Lipo is a battery chemistry type. The video is a bit confusing
th-cam.com/video/FvkiyVTvhMI/w-d-xo.html those Winstone batteries sucks big time
I hope you cleaned all this contaminated site after your tests. I can see the crop fields near by. Do you know that lithium batteries are very toxic, especially when burning. You even spilled some water on punctured cells, which then ended up in the soil. The worst thing is that it was done by firefighters, as usually they are the persons who knows about such dangers. But not in this case, it seems they are stupid enough even to breath in the toxic fumes.
conclusion : lipo batteries are a good substitute to firecrackers
And life po4 is a great toxic smoke bomb substitute
Conclusion: GWL is a no good company that is taking our rights to own batteries that can spontaneously combust
For me, it's a source for death smoke, and oh, the smell of fire
@@CarLoverPhotography naaa ,not enough smoke
The thing you are holding is also a firecrackers
I knicked a lithium pouch with a box cutter in my bedroom :) I ran with it in my hand to the other end of the house to find the screen door locked! Grabbed the keys and unlocked the door, I threw the battery which was a massive smoke machine by then, before it hit the ground it burst into flames ! That was a close call ! Lesson learnt !
lol when you cut that lithium pouch : "the bomb has been planted"
Wow. Close call for sure. Hope your hand was alright!
I'm just genuinely curious... you're screen door has a key lock on it? And why is the lock on the wrong side? Lmao
@@huntzkush LOL
That screen door is almost certainly a fire code violation. A point of egress must not lock to the inside without a readily available means of unlocking it.
safety and energy density is always a engineering tradeoff. most of the more volatile chemistries are perfectly safe if treated right. but there is something to be said about using inherently safer chemistries for alot of applications.
Exactly. Li-PoL are very common because of their form factor compared to that of the others. You may say that they're super dangerous, but that's if you're excluding modern circuitry that commonly comes with said batteries effectively eliminating almost all of the risks.
Similar way to Nuclear Power in a way. It is arguably one of the cleanest and most efficient energy production methods. Modern plants have many safety features making a meltdown very very unlikely. But due to it being also one of the most horrible disasters if it does go horribly wrong, a few accidents have put a bad taste in many people's mouths.
@Stratos Fear Nuclear power is safe if you follow proper guidelines too :)
Jokes aside, nuclear power is the most efficient source of energy right now and also one of the cleanest at the same time.
Sure there is nuclear waste, but there are reactors in development that can use said waste as fuel.
The most used power plants are still coal ones and they are much worse ecologically than the nuclear ones. Not even mentioning that by burning coal, there are radioactive particles released into the air.
@Stratos Fear how about Hanford?
@@BloPsy_Actual So why does everyone wanna get rid of nuclear power and cover everything in PV panels?
@@mode3763 Because of the "very smart" people that fear the Nuclear energy.
Germany is great example. They had shut down their nuclear power plants, yet their renewable energy sources aren't sufficient enough for the country. They are buying energy from other countries - that energy is mostly produced by coal and nuclear power plants.
For example, Czechia is the one country that is selling it's energy to Germany. And Czechs do not want to shut down their nuclear power plants even tho there are a lot of protests from their neighbours. They even plan on upgrading the existing powerplants to get more energy, because they know that coal will once dry up and nuclear is only viable option in this part of the world.
Solar panels are utopian dream that will cost huge amount of money and will pollute our planet a lot if everyone will really switch to that. Not even mentioning the need of some sort of energy storage for winters, bad weather times etc. It will be probably huge battery banks, which will only last for few decades since you know, batteries, that will pollute our world so much, that those "very smart" people will regret not trusting Nuclear energy.
I wish it would give the statistics such as the voltage and amperage when it was overcharging at the time.
So,regardless of battery and application (other than cars) it looks like it would be a good idea that the battery box should be something like a wood stove /oil drum stove with a chimney that vents to the outside for solar and wind battery banks just for precautionary safety... This video just made me redesign my bank in my head over a power wall
I actually put my ebike battery inside the stove when I charge it.
Tesla always shows their power wall bank things outside the house in all their images for this reason
Maybe all EV batteries should have a fireproof chimney. Just in case.
we make battery bunkers for charging lipo batteries in the FPV RC drone hobby.
its a fireproof brick stove, with a battery charger inside... our 6s 1500mah batteries could burn a house to the ground.
Li-Pol Is like
“You have chosen death” 😡
☠️
LiPol are mostly used in RC devices like planes and cars where performance is the most important (energy density and power density) safety is not a high priority in this application.
Cell phones
😂😂😂😂
I recommend these videos to my readers who say lifepo4 is a bad chemistry. Great video!
What's their casw against it?
@@chrisE815they are extremely sensitive to cold temperatures, but that’s about the only major issue with it
Lifepo is cold resistant actually, their drawback is lesser energy density afaik @@chrisE815
Those are interesting cases .. but .. what was the overcharging current for each case .. cause it really depend on the charge current.
Interesting tests! What was the state of charge of the batteries?
Note that the probability of a thermal runaway significantly drops at a low state of charge. This is especially important when buying cells that have been transported by air. Those are usually shipped at 30% SoC.
I've been telling people for years about the dangers of making a battery bank with Lipo batteries and those people looked at me like I was crazy. While LIFePo4 batteries will combust also. The chances of having an unpleasant reaction inside a structure is greatly reduced especially with a battery management system that can monitor the temperature and the individual charge on each battery in an array. The cases that house the electrolyte for LIFePo4 batteries are pretty resilient against physical damage. They are unlikely to be damaged unless someone uses a tomahawk like in the video or uses a wrench and physically short circuits the cells through stupidity. Remember a fuse is your friend, always use one of the correct rating. A breaker may not be so friendly.
ur crazy
@@UREALERO Jealous.
huh ? isnt lipo use for RC only ? battery bank is li- ion
@@sdqsdq6274 Nope,li-ion means it have liquid electrolyte,li-po have solid electrolyte.There are LFP batteries that can be li-po a the same time
Even with LiFePo4, I'd want my solar farm's batteries to be in a concrete box, away from any combustible structures.
0:07 background music name??
hi, very interesting what voltage was used for overcharge
Why though
Just increase the ampere.
@@kiranranjitkar2748 That’s not how it works.
Can get overcharge fire at about 5.2V/ LiPo cell, maybe less. Guess how I figured that....
It is not li po it is li ion battery
batteries be like:
LTO: i squirt
LiFePO4: i swell, i smoke
LiPo: i boom
4:34 dude you've just released the demons imprisoned in that battery. You're now curse by that battery's evil spirit.
Everyone should know about the occult and the evil in this world. And batteries are the main source. They're not allowed in hell because they're far too evil for hell that's why we have them here. Repent.
5:30 mechanical damage to LiFePO4 does not look safe at all. A lot of gas comes out. What is that gas? Is it flammable? Is it breathable?
Full test performed by acredited Laboratory in Czech: shop.gwl.eu/Expert-Opinion-Chemical-test-of-LFP-during-breakdown/
@@GWLPowered the test in the link indicates the gases contain hydrogen fluoride (HF) and phosphorus oxyfluoride (POF3). Nasty stuff. Good they don't burn, but don't be in the same room as one of those going off.
And how exactly will I get my Quad up into the air with those "safe" batteries?
they are almost as powerfull
I think they're aiming this advertising campaign at the industrial market and energy sector.
@@MatthewSlaymaker true....but then why compare to Lipo aka pouch cells?
@@ianbuilder ah like 50+ REAL C?
@@ELValenin prob like 30 c
This was the best Lipos Batteries test I have seem 😃😃😃👏👏👏👏👏👏
Spilling highly toxic waste next to crop fields... Breathing in highly toxic fumes... Best firefighters I seen so far...
They upwind ya fckn tool.
Thanks for the video👍
Well I would have liked to see the voltage, current and Wh and the cell should have been at the same ah.
As you see some people seam to be confused and believe that the "safe" cell has the same energy density.
The first thing to understand wit battery is that there is a trade off no matter what you do.
Good points. LTO have less than half the Wattage-density and are lower voltage too. They also have a more stable voltage loss during discharge, which is great for output usage but makes measuring their charge percentage less accurate.
@@JasonJrake Uh... LTO has a higher cell voltage than LFP. It does have lower Watt (VoltAmp) density. Will Prowse has a nice comparison of LFP to LTO here: th-cam.com/video/iOBSxEqXUQc/w-d-xo.html
@@kayzinti4452 I’ve seen that video and I’m not sure what you are referring to.
The lowest listed nominal ratings i found online:
for LTO is 2.4v, for LFP it’s 3.2v.
Maybe cells arranged into 12+ volt stacks are higher voltage in LTO though, if that’s what you mean.
The rule of thumb for lithium chemistries is that:
As nominal voltage goes down,
Discharge voltage slope flattens,
Functional Temp range increases,
Watt-hour density decreases,
Safety increases.
So basically Li-Pol a smoke grenade...
What are the initial SOC values of those batteries? Are they all fully charged, all fully empty, or mixed?
This was very well done, informative and interesting to watch!
Is lto better than lifepo4 on capacity per cell?
I'm sorry, but nowhere in this video is the voltage of each battery type measured, so how do we know if the LTO was even charged at all?
all that protection yet only one dude was wearing eye protection, probably spent $50 grand to set up this test, must be government work lol. good video guys, weird music though
why can i smell the battery smoke through my screen and why is it giving me a headache lol
hello bro can i use this video contend for my you tube channel for education purpose
Never heard of LTO. Thanks!
Been around for many years, but you don't find them in consumer products because normal li-ion cells have much higher energy density.
Apparently, LTO cells are best used in orbital satellites, where they have to endure many thousands of charge-discharge cycles and have an extremely long calendar life.
LTO isn't very common due being rather large & expensive compared to other chemistries. But it's by far one of the safest and most reliable chemistries out there.
Unsafest fireman i ever seen with electronics. Suprised none of them for the exception of one wore a mask because Lithium batteries burning is highly toxic!
Yeah. Breathing smoke and vapors from something burning is one of the fastest ways to get poisoned. I was surprised at how few who were standing so close had no face protection.
Thats why outdoors and probably upstream of wind. Fire protection was enough, however eyewear is a must
I agree. More - This type of test is manipulated because LiFePO4 Cells will burn and blow up, too - if they are fully or overcharged! The smoke is burnable to! With this video you "fake" Security. This video is cut very forward to sell products.
@@RoamMeYo most definitely a battery lead flying in the eye is most un cool.
@@jasonpotter4880 kind of like the DDT add from the 50s with a girl eating a hamburger while they sprayed DDT on her to prove how safe it is. She died rest her soul.
Спасибо за тест! У меня много li-ion и li-pol аккумуляторов, теперь знаю как ведут себя в разных условиях.
hello mr, may i download the video and then upload it on my youtube channel...?
This is why you need to use fuses and charging regulators for all types of batteries. This is a wonderful wonderful test.🤗🤗
Nope this is just a marketing scheme to show lipo as a ticking time bomb
Why was the LFP cell being doused with water at the end? It almost appears that they were trying to keep it from catching fire...
Overcharging circuitry is critical with those pouches. It's also necessary to seal properly; never pinch them on the top edge (or anywhere) like Samsung did with Galaxy Note 7.
samsung note 7 have bad batteries not bad construction. learn and stop talking shit
Can you test Nickel Iron please.
Nice video, however to be fair, what you tested at 6:19 was in fact Lithium-ion and not Lithium-polymer
i guess they are similar
@@tablet4170 nope.
LiPo are also available in round cells, so it is probably what they claimed. You cannot judge that by looking at the video.
How can you tell ..? LiPo exist in cylindrical package ...
It is the same technology on a different package. Both are based on the LiCoO2 chemistry. As an aside, the "Li-ion" designation covers many chemistries, including LiFePO4, but generically refers to the LiCoO2 chemistry.
Battery : on fire, smoke venting furiously
Video : ✅
Definitely building an LTO bank for my new audio build. Wanted information on the safety of lipo and LiFePo4.
LTO cells are supposed to be good for an enormous number of cycles and have an extremely long calendar life. The have lower energy density (store less energy for their size & weight) than either conventional li-ion or LiFeP04 cells.
What chemistry are the Li-pol batteries used? NMC?
Would have been nice to actually hear the batteries exploding.
Thanks for making this video
LiFePO4 cells seems to be safe enough to replace the Li-ION cells inside my power bank. The hard part is to design a new charge controller PCB that fits the same space as the current one.
And find some LiFePo4 cells small enough to fit in a power bank while still providing a useful capacity
@Murphy deffa or lose half again and opt for LTO lol, thats what im doing, cause id rather have to lug around a huge battery than worry about my 200wh+ behemoth bursting into flames or a cloud of lethal smoke if something out of my control happened. cell level fusing and smart BMSs with extra failsafes are great and all but if something happens out of your control that bypasses those, some total black swan event you could never have seen coming, i dont know man but to me it seems worth it even if my phone will feel like carryign around a VHS tape...
@@doooofus i think it'll be bigger and heavier than a vhs tape. Just carry around a hand crank charger if you're so worried about your powerbank exploding. 🗿
@@aivarsaar Well you can do a away with a lot of cooling and make prismatic cells, gaining back about 20% of the capacity.
Also they lose capacity slower, so after 5-6 years it will start closer together.
On top of that, you can use then with both more and less charge, doing 0-100% instead of 20-85% in daily driving, while true, on long drives, the range will be shorter
I can help with that! I suggest:
Batteries: hakadi makes some LiFePO4 cells that are much smaller than car batteries
Circuitry: using 3 or 4 cells in series allows you to power a car adapter where you can then use USB ports to charge your phone.
the GenX "big battery" grid storage plant near Rockhampton Australia, had a fire in its Tesla supplied LiFePO4 batteries in 2023. 5.25 LoL........the smoke coming out of that cell is luckily being ventilated, because if it was in a confined space, it would likely build up and ignite.......put one of those in your home or RV etc at your own risk. The LTO looked the best, but they are pricey.
2:39 whenever my dad sneezes
😻😻😹😹😹
If the Li-ion battery starts to burn, what should it be extinguished with? What type of fire extinguisher should we use?
We use this one: shop.gwl.eu/Special-Products/Promo-lithium-battery-extinguishing-spray.html
(in our battery workshop, we have also installed this: shop.gwl.eu/blog/Others/The-SAND-TUB--Get-ready-for-the-fire.html but that's only for pros 😎)
Many thanks for doing the first fair tests I've seen anyone do.
Where is li-pol short circuit?
2:40 What fluid is that?
Orphan tears
I wonder what makes up the vapor that some of these battery's release as smoke. Not a lot of information about it on TH-cam.
I recently had some basic training on this in my role as a firefighter. Obviously there is a cocktail of toxic chemicals given off there, the most worrying is hydrogen cyanide, as well as some highly flammable gases. Safe to say you do not want to breathe any of that in and any lithium batteries that are punctured or on fire are a serious hazard, especially in a confined space. Btw imo it was pointless these people observing these tests wearing “fire gear” (looked more like my sons dress up clothes though) if they were not wearing any face or eye protection (as others have already stated) but also RPE (aka respiratory protective equipment or breathing apparatus)! Yeah, great professionalism guys 🤦♂️
We've covered this topic here: th-cam.com/video/YpdNkWs8coE/w-d-xo.html
great demo video, thank you!
Highly impressive information!
Kudos to the bravery of the guy who axed the Li-Pol and stayed there holding the axe!
2:39 is this safety? If so why elecrolite is everywhere?
Conlusion : LifePo4 is safe if it is stored in a safety canister.
Scary to use Li-Pol now
Interesting in what chemestry the lipo was? And also want to know cell voltage/temerature and c rate during charging.
Lithium polymer.
They bypassed the safety circuit on the lipo and also the charger. If you use a proper charger it's very safe. Most normal chargers won't be able to do the c rating a lipo will need to go up in flames. My charger is rated at 5amp I can charge a lipo at 5c. I do charge my xpower batteries at 2c no problem
Do you have an idea what is the short circuit current of the Lfp cell ?
The LTO cell looks like a SUPERCAPACITOR 💪
It's packaged with screw terminals due to the high current rating for LTO batteries.
Name the music please! ❤
Try that with the battery in my old merc, took days to charge
:()
Sad how much amp hours?
what is LTO?
is T titanium??
What is the voltage supplied to each batteries when overcharging?
The test should have been done with same package type of batteries and not different from one and other.
Does anyone know what device you need to get to check a battery is indeed as stated eg// AA battery 2950mah or 2800mah or an AAA battery 1100mah something to test wether or not its telling the truth?
It's called a battery analyzer. Basically it charges, discharges, and recharges the battery in sequence, and reports the amount of charge released during the discharge phase.
@@fat_pigeon Sounds cool, I need to get one, but don't know a good honest decent brand, do you know of one off Amazon UK?
That overcharge LiPo battery just turned into Saturn V rocket exhaust
More like half of a satellite's RCS thruster, but still a rocket.
how come no short circuit test for the LiPo
Thank you very much for the battery testing comparison. Now I can sleep in peace!... Is GWL available in Canada??
We are based in Czech (EU), we do ship to Canada.
Thats a great question but wtf this question is so dumb
@@geometrikselfelsefesi What do you mean dumb? Which part of my question looks dumb to you?
@@ahnafpiash i can sleep in peace! idk but funny question ok sorry
@@ahnafpiash we all know kids who play baldi wtf that game name are brainless
Which of these can handle more current and hold more power for a longer lasting usage by weight?
I guess the li po by far
You had current, temperature and other measurements made. Why didn't you wrote it on the screen? Also LTO batteries' reaction to short circuit doesn't seem safe at all. Batteries squirting (probably) acid is not a desired thing...
Nothing better than Ni-Cd! Still using it, some of them are older than 10 years! 👍🏻
right, strange that they are not that popular as Pb battery, especially Nickel-metal hydride one
Imagine the smell...
The Other Technologies LFP and LTO What are these as I dont know the names of them. I'm impressed of those safer batteries that are what I may call self containing .
LFP is lithium iron phosphate and LTO is lithium titaniumoxide
Under a normal battery charging process...I think most people would be using a smart battery charger, volt meter, temp probe, circuit breaker or fuse to prevent a fire or over charging situation.
Temperature probes, circuit breakers or fuses are not suitable to prevent over changing (charging above the design voltage). They are only suitable to prevent damage from high charging current. Without cell balancing even regulating the charging voltage does not protect from over charging.
What's the music in the beginning called?
Great video.
Feedback: The experiments were conducted without a safety barrier.
Your specialists were exposed to danger during the experiment.
The specialist is invaluable even if his experience is little.
Your beautiful experiences benefited us.
While the test could be made safer, absolutely.
With all honesty, this wasn't our first experience with any of the showcased technology during similar critical situations. It was first where we filmed the results in somewhat representative manner. Still, next test videos will be improved primarily to educate everyone else, on the danger level during such testing.
For example, it is why we have chosen very tiny LiPo based cells (18650 form on the video during the external fire test), because larger cells would be serious danger to the personel.
@@GWLPowered RESCUE THANKS 🙏
@GWL what Acid is it on 2:55?
Hello, we've covered this in the following episode: th-cam.com/video/YpdNkWs8coE/w-d-xo.html
Odd looking lipo for the ignition test looked a lot more like a lithium ion 18650 than a lipo
What kind of camera do you use in 0:50 which is resistant to high temperature?
Gopro
I've been looking into battery options for van building, and considered installing LTO 40ah batteries running parallel at 48volts. I then saw a video of Li-Pol batteries exploding after it was punctured and thought "fuck that i'm not gonna drive around as a mobile time bomb", but I'm glad I got to see this video and now know if it overheats/gets damaged there are self contained precautionary measures.
I'm using lto in my scooter and I'll never go back to 18650 li ion. The cells are so strong you can even charge and discharge them at high current and they will still last decades.
LiPo batteries always remind me of microwave popcorn when they fail. 🔥💥
TIP÷
Li-pol(lithium polymer)batteries are used in most phones and has a limited heat capacity.
For the LiFePo battery what are these fumes and how dangerous are there when inhaled by accident?
Hello, this we've covered in another video: th-cam.com/video/YpdNkWs8coE/w-d-xo.html
For all those asking what the numbers were. Don't over charge, over discharge, or short any battery. Doesn't matter what the numbers were.
I respectfully disagree. They should have included that data b/c it's interesting & germane to the overall discussion of safety & performance tradeoffs between various battery chemistries
But do they hold the same charge per mass like a lipo?
I guess not even close.
Do they provide as much max ampere as a li po?
i guess not.
You are right, and that's why there are applications where li-po are used and other apps where LFP or LTO are more suitable.
1st Grade LTO and 2nd grade LFP ,, no more polymer safety point :(
is the timer in minutes? For example, 01:39.2 is one minute and 39 seconds or hours, ie, 1 hr and 39 minutes?
I figured it out pretty quick.
Bei 7:30 sind sie einfach komplett ausgerastet^^
0:12 Was that electrolyte?
I think yes. Take into account that the electrolyte is either an organic liquid, some liquid lithium or water, for extra protection. Idk much about batteries
Really interesting to see that there is no safety discipline around such experiences (except for firefighters)! At a minimum, protective glasses for everyone.
Yea. They’re wearing protective clothes, but most way to close with no eye protection. Better off wearing tee shirts and safety glasses
What is your procedure for sudden battery explosion and shrapnel injury to those leaning their heads towards the tests to tie their shoes, or leaning forward to get a tiktok video to post online?
Last lipol comparzation whas not right it whas liIon batery.! Not lipolimer
lithium ion batteries are a type of lithium polymer battery
@@handlemchandleson1 Other way around! But yea same chemistry.
Just different in physical construction.
А то что у ионистора саморозряд огромный вас не смущает?? А литий у меня год продежал и только немного розрядился.
You should do IMR 18650 batteries. There smaller batteries but have a violent thermal run away
Why don't more manufacturers use LifePo4? Unless it's a really small device like a phone, the added energy density can't be that big? Seems like LifePO4 is ideal for a lot of medium sized consumer products.
I think you have exceeded the manufacurers specifikation and this voided the warranty. 🤭
Informative video, very good.
Just a little bit :)
Thanks for good information
GreatScott sent me
Do you mean "GreatScott"?
@@poyen_tseng yeah! Sorry for the spelling mistake
Hello one question.
There is a cylindrical cell of about 10 to 15ah so it can be installed in a electric motorcycle
An interesting & very practical demonstration of the various battery types, thanks for posting.
Hi GWL and everyone, nice video! I would like to know if the gas coming out of the LiFePo4 battery is toxic? and also if it is flammable and also corrosive? I would like to install a bank of these batteries in a small RV (Motorhome) where we are going to sleep inside, eat and be in different places with extreme temperatures etc. In case of a problem, the safety valve of the prismatic batteries, are they a relief? to release gas in case of bloating. But I don't know if these gases are dangerous, corrosive, toxic, flammable if I light a cigarette or when cooking for example it can explode if a little gas is leaking and we don't see it??? Thanks!
The gases and fumes are extremely toxic! This ist NO steam....the electrolyte in the battery dissolves and releases in certain circumstances HF gas. Furthermore, the gas is flammable as you see. I repeat: inhaling those fumes is very dangerous 😞
Hello, we've covewred this in the following episode: th-cam.com/video/YpdNkWs8coE/w-d-xo.html