DEEP CYCLE BATTERY COMPARISON - Is Lithium really worth it?
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 7 มิ.ย. 2024
- If you're trying to choose the best deep cycle battery for your 4WD's dual battery setup, watch this!
Lithium batteries may have a higher price tag but they've got a much longer lifespan, and a lot of pros:
- Twice as many usable amp hours (AH) as AGM batteries
- Higher lithium input charge means you can charge your battery faster with a DCDC charger
- Higher lithium discharge rate means you can run high amp draw things like 240v inverters, power tools and blenders off your 12v system!
- More discharge cycles so your battery lives a much longer life
- Good quality lithium batteries have a built in BMS (battery management system)
More on Shauno's choice: bit.ly/redarc-lithium-batteries
Check out the Redarc GoBlock: www.redarc.com.au/portable-power - ยานยนต์และพาหนะ
With my budget my 12v system comprises a torch,a campfire and an esky
Just need a farm jack and your set.
And you would still be happy with a cold beer around the fire mate 🤙
@40 72 🤣Nothing wrong with that. That's how I started 25 years ago. Then I got an upgrade and got myself a headtorch. 😁
@40 72, You did better than me compared to when I started camping. You had an esky? That's luxury camping. 😄
@@fatmanoverlanding glamping
I’m not a 4 wheeler guy but considering Lithium for my boat. Excellent job mate. Such a professional delivery. I hope you’re using your presentation skills to earn money. You answered everything I needed to know.
This video is great however lifepo4 is light-years better than a lithium battery at slightly more weight. They have 6-seven times more discharge cycles before having to replace them so instead of 500 cycles to get to 80% capacity they have 3000 cycles to get to 80%. :)
Also instead of having some complicated system where you buy the battery and then having to wire everything together I would just rather get a bluetti lifepo4 generator/battery. They make a really great one for 1500 bucks if you are a serious Overlander or buy the EB 55 for medium tasks
Good one Shauno, enjoyed watching the deep technology comparison between the two, please do more of these side by sides. Nice graphic works too. Cheers
AGM batteries discharge must faster and hold less power but unlike lithium ion phosphate batteries they can be rapidly discharged or charged, if you do that to lithium ion battery you will ruin it, this is exactly why you must never connect them to an alternator, way to many amps, this is not a proper for flooded fibreglass lead acid cells.
The best, most straightforward explanation of Lithium vs AGM I've seen. Nice one!
TH-cam is doing well... Shauno has 10k+ in batteries and charger setup. Pretty epic setups
Must be under cutting his workers, insulated shed while jock basically works in the rain on his cars haha
Hi shauno, once again great content keep it coming, everything is down to budget, and especially if your an AGM guy the charger is vital, alternator charging via relays are not great as the regulation to the battery is off, a good charger is the way to go, for both lithium and AGM, some AGM are rated for 10 years but you really need to pamper it and not just shove in the boot and hope for the best. Again with lithium a very good BMS is needed, you know the saying ‘’you buy cheap, you buy twice ‘’. Greetings from Ireland keep up the good work.
THIS EXPLANATION IS THE BEST EVER
so clear, so informative, and easy to understand
regards from Indonesia
Beauty video boys! Great explanations!
It is on its way to Victoria BC Canada as we speak but I went with a portable setup. A shop in Perth mods National Luna battery box (which are really hard to get here and waay pricey) with the Redarc 25 amp dc/dc charger, preps the box for solar and 12v vehicle charging with Andersons . I sourced a North American pure sine 500 watt inverter and a lithium 100 amp/hr battery which I will slam in here! Also went with a solar blanket to stay very portable! I am chomping at the bit to get my hands on it and prep my Lexus GX470/Prado Grande 120( no diesel , 5 spd , rats! Lol. Can’t complain though. It turned over 450 000km two weeks ago! Knock on wood!)
Love the Aussie touring setups and equipment! Been a fan of 4wd Action /24/7 since the late 90’s. Love the content!
Keep it up! Cheers!
An EXCELLENT video! Professionally shot and edited, full of useful information without unnecessary fluff. Keep up the great work, gentlemen.
@repentandbelieveinJesusChrist9 Right back at 'ya!
Shauno's 12v system on his LC200 probably cost more than my entire rig. 🤯😲
🤣
:)
Yes.
I bet it cost him nothing ;)
Wow! This is the best battery comparison video on TH-cam - by a long shot.
Brilliant vid. Clever edits with the battery discharging animations. Thank you 🤙🏾
I have had the same shorai lithium battery in my gsxr 1000 going on 12 years.
I balance it once a year, takes 5 mins and still reads perfect 100% .
I've been running LifePo4 cells for 5 years now. 1st up was a 400ah pack I built with 16 x 100ah cells in our caravan. Yes they cost a bit, but the weight savings (~52kg vs ~200kg) and what they could run over lead acid it was a no brainer.
I had 5 x 250watt 36 volt solar panels on the roof, Midnite solar controller and a 2000 watt Projector sine wave inverter. The system could run our Fujitzu 6kw inverter (inverter split system, max draw at 22 degrees was ~960 watt) domestic split system all day long plus the tv, 255 liter 240 volt sumsung inverter fridge, lights etc and still have 80-90% soc by dusk.
I now use 200ah of that LifePo4 pack in my 4wd, 1 x 250watt 36 volt solar panel, mppt solar controller. My 60 liter fridge/freeze is on 24/7, hasn't been turned off for at least a year. Also run a 1000 watt Projector sine wave inverter which will run my small Boc inverter arc welder and small grinder, small 240v air compressors etc.
Lead acid just can't do what a lithium can.
Well said i will like your comment, shame they gone round liking the agm comments only shows this video is a sales pitch not advice
Best comparison video I've ever seen of these technologies. High production level & spot on explanations.
Had a terrible time wrapping my hands around the new Lithium upgrade (to our Casita travel trailer) my husband did. This really helped. Thank you.
Renogy 100ah lithium, $700,100amp discharge 11.8kg. Had mine 2 years and it's awesome.
do you have a link ?
@@smiileylalaa The Renogy Website... that said, they need to lower their prices now that there are great batteries just over half the price
Exactly has exactly the same stats as this redarc for $620.. Had mine for two years and they kick ass.
Chins makes a 100ah 12v iron phosphate battery's for $300 you can get the 300ah 12v for $900. Prices are coming down some.
@@MJermMer so you would recommend it ?
I’ve been looking at this exact thing for my setup! Good to see the outcome.
Can't fault it mate!
@@4WD247 only down fall is they can't handle the current draw (amps)
For running a winch or starting the car otherwise brilliant
@Ray Johnson cheers mate👍🏼 I might look into that too!
Thank You. Great review. I have an old Skil 14.4 Volt lithium Drill I bought years ago. Just got it out and it still Runs. Charging it now.
USA. Indiana. Just purchased our first RV Fifth wheel. Prep for Solar with one AGM. As we outfit I have to decide more AGM or just go to Lithium get over the pain of cost. As a qualified Electrician I’m refreshing my knowledge and learning what’s new in the low voltage world. Your videos are spot on. Sub thank you
I have utilised 120amp hour AGM in caravan since 2004. In that time we have done weekend trips, fortnightly runs and 8 week vacations.
They have given us 7.5 years service from each. They have always been awesome, running electric blankets, coffee pod m/c, sandwich toaster lights, fans etc., however we have just retired and plan on utilising the van more extensively with an addition of a washing m/c. hence began investigating lithium.
Decided on Itech 120 and cannot believe just quickly it recharges, basically as soon as the solar panels (4 X 64watt amorphous) see sun light the battery is back to full capacity, so along with better operation we have reduced our weight.
As a result we purchased 3 x 54amp hour Itech units to replace our AGM units in our Patrol. Same result, superior recharge time and great weight saving over 3 X AGM.
Now to see how long these units last as they need to justify $ layout.
Thanks Shaun, you have given us confidence we have taken the correct action.
Glad we could help out!
Ian Weal, can I ask what your doing with three 54 amp batteries in your Patrol. 54 amp is really low
@@trevorspeedy6333 it's all about storage space and capacity, a single 100amp hr unit in AGM wasn't sufficient, so I utilised 3 X 48amp hr AGM in the initial storage design. These worked fine, but recovery was slow, hence we installed BCDC charging, and whilst better, it was still slow to recover and when I elected to go lithium it was obvious I'd have to use batteries with same casing size to fit in predestined storage space, hence 54 amp hr lithium, that equates to 162 amp hr, nothing trivial about that capacity and they recover faster than the AGM counterparts of 144 amp hr.
A good compromise all round.
@@ianweal3081 how do you go about charging them in Parallel with the three batteries. Are you going from closest positive to furtherest negative or are you using bus bars and identical length leads to each battery. I’d be interested to know how even the charge up and run down is with three batteries.
Hospesis!
Pretty helpful and fair video! Def should mention how freezing cold is no good for charging a lithium! Running an ebay special setup! Not the most reliable of bits and pieces but for under 600 usd including a solar panel it gives me all the capacity to run lights and change small devices I could need!
You can run lights and charge devices with a 60 watt folding panel and a couple of USB power banks.
Timing is everything, this just answers all my questions. Thanks Shaun. 😊
Happy to help!
Great video on the differences, my take as follows.
If you move often when camping or have a generator handy and weight is not an issue, AGM all the way it is more cost effective.
If you like to camp in one spot for quite a while off grid, don't need or want to carry a generator, need to run a bigger inverter and/ or weight is an issue, lithium batteries are a revelation.
Having converted to Lithium a lot less time worrying about and managing power drain and charging. So fast to return to full charge gives the ability to handle a series of cloudy days without limiting power draw to the point of turning off fridges or having to run a generator. If they suit your application, you can afford it and have set them up correctly - definately more smiles to the mile.
Great video & very informative. One cost that wasn't included though is if you're swapping from an old AGM system to a new lithium you may need to upgrade your charger to suit.
Zero gravity batteries don't require you to install additional equipment
Great video and simple explanation. The one thing that people also need to take into consideration is that AGM are easily recycled back into new Batteries. Lithium batteries are very hard to dispose of at the end of the life. So there is an environmental impact at the end of the life of the battery.
Lithium are recyclable
Lithium iron phosphate should be more recyclable from what I understand as the chemistry is simpler, but there are upcoming ways that will address all of that to be sure. 😊🌎✨
I mentioned to you about running an induction cooker vs Gas at the Perth 4x4 show 2022.
You answered me with . It depends on the battery manage system.
Now watching this video, it is worth it. Not having to worry about gas refills.
Replenishing water would mean seeking a source.
What if you applied this concept to a caravan then you could find a sunny spot and relax for weeks on end before moving on.
Great Vid Shauno 👍
That was great! Thanks Shauno, learnt a lot and am definitely more knowledgeable now and am ready to deck out my Ute with a 12v system for my touring needs! Thank you!!!
Battery selection of AGM vs Lithium is very specific for use. For a trolling battery it’s excellent when paired with a proper charger. For a starting battery it’s a very bad idea. Lithium is typically output current limited and a starter can overwhelm the battery. Also lithium batteries will hungrily accept a charge and can overwhelm many alternators. There are ways to adapt to them but in most cases they are not easily interchangeable.
You cant charge a lithium battery from your alternator. You need to run it through a dcdc charger.
There is one point more for cons. The discharge and charge of Lithium during frost. Discharge is generally possible until-15/20°C but for charging you need something around -5°C. In Australia maybe not an issue and/or if your Battery is inside the Vehicle.
My Battery is in the back of my Hilux and is a AGM from Optima wich is allready working for 8 years. But i like to replace it by Lithium just to try it.
Thx for a really good Video!👍
Brgds 🙋🏻♂️
There are heated ones on the market. And for DIY batteries you can apply heating pads and BMS that controls these ..
I'm from Russia and I've never heard about lithium batteries in cars. Decided to google why and yes, you answered my question - it doesn't work in cold. In my city in winter it can be -20 -30 quite commonly. And my region isn't that cold. So unfortunately all of this is just an aussie story...
@@Stalinko from Finland, hi. If you run a gasoline car that heats up well, you should still have no problem. At least my 4 liter Jeep still has all hot engine bay so it will be able to charge! Also people seem to block the ventilation from engine bay during winter and some wrap up even normal batteries in some thermal covers. But lithium will most probably do always at least as well as an AGM. Friends even run cars on 2kg motorcycle lithium batteries!
@@tuomassoukka1967 sounds good and would make sense if it wouldn't have costed 10x of the agm battery price)
Btw I have a diesel land cruiser 100, so anyway no sense in my case
@@Stalinko Here in Europe it becomes popular. But the most People install the Battery inside the Vehicle. In this case it works at least in the mild winters in the last years.
I don't know how it works in Scandinavia.
Brgds to Russia! 🙋🏻♂️
Perfect timing for me with this video. In the middle of trying to make the decision for my camper trailer now. Thanks dude, really helpful.
Glad we could help out 🙌🏻
thanks mate, i love that you explain every thing simply.
One disadvantage with Lithium batteries that you missed, and it is an important one for people in colder climates, like us Canadians, is that you can't charge them when they are below freezing, 0° C, or 32° F for the Americans. Most good quality Lithium batteries will have a low temperature cut off on their BMS, but virtually all of the cheaper Lithium batteries don't. Charging them below freezing damages your Lithium battery, and can dramatically reduce their life. Some models of Lithium batteries that are designed for colder climates have an internal heating element in them that kicks in to warm the battery up if you start trying to charge it when the temperature is below freezing...I know off the top of my head that both Battle Born and Renogy have versions of their batteries with that ability, there are probably others as well.
True, but hes a queenslander, and we dont get really cold weather :)
@@2157AF and heat, can't fit it under bonnet due to heat
He's generally talking to Australians and what we call cold here would probably make you laugh. Also old mate just mentioned heat. That's why it's kept in the cabin or in the back. We would never stick a Lithium in the engine bay
@@christopherwhitney2711 winter in Vic especially in the south east gets below 0°c and will freeze bin lids shut.
@@jollymadness6882 I'm an Aussie. Are you trying teach me to suck eggs? Don't bother, I'm sitting in Tassie right now, and I live in Qld usually. So I get the angle sunshine.
This is a top quality video mate, well done!
You Aussies do a damn good job of explaining stuff! Thank you!
Great video. Can totally tell you don't need to worry about leaving batteries in vehicles that are below freezing for 4-6 months. Let alone daily highs of -30 or lower for an entire month. I wish I could switch to Lithium but life in the Canadian prairies means AGM for a while yet.
Yeah but it'd gets 150°f in cars here. Equally as bad.
Umm Teslas drive around here no problem.
@@justsomeguy6474 typical Tesla owner probably has them in a garage, most likely heated, if they live anywhere cold. In December I picked up an Odyssey AGM when temperatures dropped below -40°C and my 6 year old Northstar wouldn't start in the mornings. Will keep an eye on lithiums though. My brother has one for his truck's stereo.
@@4LilyPad Tesla owners like myself still go to movies and supercharger stations are never indoors. In Denmark(the artic circle) Teslas are the number one selling vehicles. The cold weather myth is just that.
@@justsomeguy6474 thank you for real world feedback. Much appreciated
You can build a 280ah useable Lifepo4 battery that weighs 20kg for around $1,200 or 105ah for about $550 (with bluetooth BMS). You can charge these at 0.5c until almost full which is just over 2.5 hours. Your AGM will take 5-10x longer than that
and the morons that build them wrong = fire!
As always an awesome in-depth explanation with a comparison that chimps like me can understand. Your high-school essays must've been off the charts Shauno!
Super helpful video, thanks team! It’s been basic portable set-up for me so far, mostly because my work Hilux is also the dad shuttle, and occasional long weekend mission base, so versatility is key. Next step is the make the ute more capable off road, which then opens up 4-7 day hunting trips with the mates, and at that point, I’ll invest in a solid wired-in dual battery AGM and solar system. When our kid is a bit older and our lifestyles more conducive to it, I’d love to go lithium solar system for a week-long family trips with plenty of spare power to run some niceties from home. Anyway, as I said, this vid was super helpful in mapping this out in my head, thanks heaps. All the best, team!
I run a 100ah lead acid deep cycle and voltage relay. Sets me back about $300 in total. Ultimate budget setup.
By budget you mean initial cost?
There are now 100ah LiFePO4 batteries for around $300. And you'll actually get 100ah. You can buy a 50ah LiFePO4 battery to save money. You'll have the same usable charge as before, but it'll be far lighter.
I find it strange that people are so bent on only looking at the initial cost.
@@GTrainRx7 Yup... imagine buying the very cheapest used Range Rover you could find to save money? 😂
Had problems with a well known brand lithium. BMS played up in hot temps, shut the battery down and wouldn’t charge etc. No good in the middle of nowhere. Also can’t determine what SoC lithiums are from volt reading and need to spend more money on a battery monitor. Gone back to AGM and no BMS to worry about and totally reliable. SoC easily determined by volt reading. No noticeable difference to vehicle performance carrying the extra 15kg in weight either. Twenty years of travelling and there was no difference to my trips having a lithium compared to AGM. BMS in lithium batteries need improving so maybe in a couple years I’ll go back to lithium. Just my 2c worth
5 years running LifePo4 cells, no BMS, no issues. Have a Victron battey monitor for soc.
@@feral4mr2 8 years running mine (lifepo4). Sounds like Jedda Dog bought one with a cheap BMS...
@@feral4mr2 what is a soc?
@@AdmissionGaming State of charge. The percentage of charge the battery has between 0% - 100%.
@@AdmissionGaming state of charge
Thanks for explaining these issues especially because no one else does!
Thankyou so much for this it's about time someone made a simple easy to understand but very informative comparison cheers for that LV it 👍🏾👍🏾
G'day Shauno, great coverage on a commonly asked question mate, we run 2 X 300 AH AGM batteries hooked-up in 24V, & those big bastards weigh 100kg each.
However I do prefer to run the AGM simply on the price gap, when the Lithium becomes more affordable I would make the switch.
Check out byd blade cell thank me later.
I don't think prices will come down much until lithium is replaced.
Look at cordless tools the batteries are still really expensive to say there's just a handful of 18650 batteries in them
100kg/300ah? get two 240ah, they're only 50kg/battery.. 100kg/each, lol!
I hear you re price. I wonder what you would save on fuel over the life time of the battery when comparing AGM v lithium? Would offset some of the up front costs of lithium maybe 🤔 ?
Have you looked into DIY LifePo4 prismatic cells, I just built a 304ah 12v pack the camper, all materials cost just over $1000, and weighs 27Kgs.
Interested to know what happens/each scenario with both/either when they explosively fail, any chance of a report on that? Especially with Lithium no being recommended being in the engine bay, what happens in say a 76 series wagon?
I didn’t know that and I was thinking of replacing my start and house batteries in my boat with lithium batteries to save weight and space. The batteries are mounted in the engine compartment. Perhaps I’ll just stick to the lead acid type.
The newer style LifePo4 lithium battery technology is very safe, they are not the same chemistry as Lithium Ion cells found in phones and smaller devices and don't run-away thermally like the lithium Ion cells can
they way technology is moving in the lithium world, this will be a non issue soon enough, they already have new designs to help to minimize issues with fire and over heating.
Greetings from South Africa. Excellent review mate. Learned a lot - especially the BMS.
This was very informative and explained very well. Thank you for sharing!
The 50 percent myth is a big issue in the 12 volt world. A typical AGM has a life time of say... 2000 cycles If you discharge it to 50 percent. If you discharge it to 80 percent you get 600-800. If you discharge it to 100 percent you get 200-300 cycles.
But.. unless you are camping every day for a year, your typical battery will get maybe 10-50 cycles a year. If you camp for half a year, yes, definitely lifetime starts to be impacted. But if you camp twice a year for 2 days? Thats 4 cycles. At 200 cycles, thats still 50 years. NO agm lasts 50 years even if you never use it. So just use your battery, unless its in a caravan and you live off the grid every day. Its not use protecting your AGM from deep discharge when the damn things still die within 5 years due to simple acid loss due to heat and lead erosion due to just.. sitting there.
The 50 percent "myth" as it is is for daily solar cycling off grid usage. For years on end. Camping agms can be discharged to 80 percent and still last as long as if you did it to 50 percent, and you get 30 percent more usage, so thats 30 percent more effective power for exactly the same price.
USE your battery... its got a rating on the side and that is what its rated to deliver before dropping into usless voltage territory. If you plan on using it for a year in a caravan, stick to 50 percent, but if you do that to a camping battery in a plastic box? You are simply throwing away battery capacity for no reason at all. The battery will still die eventually, and you have gone camping 10 times. So use it to 80, 90 percent even. Its capable of it. Thats why the rating is on the side that says 100ah. If AGMs were useless past 50 percent... then they would be marked with 50 ah.
Im fully prepared for any questions... but you cant argue the fact that there are no 50 year old agms... and reducing the life of your battery means nothing if its already got a limited lifetime. If you "save" your battery so it only lasts 20 years instead of 40 years... but will still die in 5.. what are you saving for?
It's hard to use less than 12 volts anyway I guess. Especially at high current draw. I think most people will use it if they need, only they plan thier needs to be above 50%. It's possible if you flatten it completely that you lose a significant part of capacity, the next day you may not have enough to last you.
AGM and all lead acids are archaic, once you go lithium there is no going back to those relics of the past.
AGM for the win.
What about self discharge, agm cells wont be fully charged a week after charging them month much worse but the lithuim would still hold full charge, Byd blade cell 138ah 30000 cycles now thats a cell you want.
Love the logic here!
I have a 100amp hour Volta X lithium battery purchased on ebay. Got it for $385 delivered on a sale a year or so ago. My cfx65 still has over 13volts after 12hrs of being a beer fridge. Very happy
I run the same battery, it's a solid performer. Outbax sell them
Voltage means nothing with lithium
How's the Volt X lithium battery performing to date? Good? I'm also considering getting a Volt X. But they have two types, one is colour coded green and the other in purple. Which one did you get?
@@fatmanoverlanding They usually change up their design every year.. I'm running the 200Ah "green" VoltX and it happily ran 3 x 50L fridges, charged 8 phones/tablets, ran the radio for 7 days at Bathurst this year. The tests I've seen show they're not bs'ing their ratings either.
I should note than you should check their discharge current as they are on the "lower" side, if you're looking for something to run a high powered inverter, might not be the go for you.
@@fatmanoverlanding i got the green one
Put a Service body Canopy on the back of my Ranger Put in 2 100ah Lithium batteries but kept the charging simple using a Redarc bcdc 40 but also have a 240 setup using a Victron charger both running thru a smart shunt and can see everything on the phone running a engel 110 upright passenger side and a engle 60lt as a freezer/ Beer fridge driver side. Your vid has confirmed that going this way was the right move even thou the initial outlay was substantial. Love going to the river for the weekend and the wife has the food fridge and i have the beer fridge we both happy as i like having the drinks at 1C lol. Great vid as always well done Shauno
A few battery terminals there that need covers; wouldn’t like to accidentally drop a spanner on them.
Nice video. I did a blog on the similar merits of lithium vs AGM when I worked for Victron Energy. I’m retired now and did that blog maybe 7 years ago and came to similar conclusions as you.
Maybe one thing you could have added was a bit about chemistry and pros on cons of those, say LiFePO4 vs NMC.
In my motorhome I approached things slightly differently for ease. I kept the Gel based lead system and made effectively a Go solution, so I had 5kWh of NMC with BMS, a 2kVA inverter (1,600 Watts continuous at 25C) with combined charger called a Victron MultiPlus and solar plugin. It was all about weight and ease. I simply spliced into the shore cable downstream of the shore supply on the vehicle, effectively taking shore power with you when disconnected. That kept the Gel charged until the Go pack ran out and the lithium energy pack could be topped up with solar as could the Gel. The pack was ‘portable’ and could be used for other off grid uses.
All in all it saved a complete redesign of the system and when I sold the vehicle I simply lifted out my Go pack.
Shauno and Graham should do a road trip from Googs Track, to Uluru, to the Kakadu go through Cahils Crossing and go to the Simpson's desert on the way back.
We are located at NSW and we just came back from a 3 week trip. We went from Sydney to Adelaide, went to Cobber Peddy through Port Augusta, went to the Painted Desert in Oodnadatta (hottest town in Aus), went to Uluru & Olgas, went to Alice, up to Katherine then Darwin, from Darwin to the Kakadu (Jabiru), tried to go to Cahils Crossing was fully flooded bc of the wet season, went to Jim Jim Falls, went back home via Warumungu, to Camooweal, Mount Isa, Winton, Longreach, Cunnamulla, Bourke to Dubbo then Dubbo to Sydney.
3 weeks many not be enough time to enjoy every place as we had 12hr days of driving.
Yes
With the price gap so high Shauno it might be better to invest in another solar panel to compensate the 50% discharge limit by just pumping in more energy.
Only if you buy high priced Redarc
The quality AGM products allow for 100% DOD. Even reputable flooded batteries can go down 80%.
Really well presented Shaun with very comprehensive info. Oh, and great analogy used. Thanks mate.
Glad you enjoyed it
Building a square drop camper at the moment, and thinking after watching this vid, to go for lithium. Seems to be more economical longterm. Thanks for the info. 👍
Redarc gear is great but damn it's expensive. You can get a good quality 100ah lithium battery for around $500 if you look around. (There's plenty of TH-cam channels that test and dismantle cheap lithium batteries to check the quality etc and some are actually very good)
Try Victron then, I believe they are dearer, as they are marine focused. But have seen them in 4wd's.
But I've been known to be wrong before, so do some research.
Plenty of $500 100ah lithium's around that discharge at 100amps nowadays with Australian warranties - hell, I saw one that comes in a clear case so you can see exactly what's in it without having to open it up! Pointing people at $1500-$2000 is absurd in this day and age. Easy when you are given them for free I s'pose ....
Hey Shaun. Awesome explanation!
One thing you didn't really touch on is the need to have some form of battery monitor on a lithium battery in order to know its state if charge which is an extra cost. Cheers.
You can still estimate the state of charge by the voltage but the range is much tighter for lithium being from 100% @ 13.8v to 40% @ 13.1v. Like all batteries should not be under load before you take a reading
@@PeterPaoliello Very true. But for the average bloke an energy meter/battery monitor makes it alot easier. When you start talking about percentages vs SOC measured without load it can get a bit confusing. 👍
@@orb1talnz from my experience I found that more difficult to track with an in/out AH meter as there's losses in the system the accuracy will drift over time, depending on the logic of the meter the battery will need to be brought up to 100% and/or drained to 0% for the meter to correctly understand the range (neither of which are good for the battery), plus with natural degradation of the cells capacity will change over time. It's a nice to have for sure, but voltage to me is the most accurate method. I have a printed and laminated table stuck near my voltage meter I use as a reference. Each to their own though. Cheers.
A good quality dc-dc charger will take care of this
You can do this for very little money
Great explanation. I really liked the step up analogy!
Very clear and crisp explanation. Thank you.
Yes they're worth it, just not an enerdrive or redarc as they are ridiculously overpriced
You don’t drive a GreatWall do you?
@@Phil_McAvity hahaha
@@Phil_McAvity No, always had Hiluxs and Rangers.
The cells are all manufactured in China, the BMSs are mostly out of China or Taiwan. These are the suppliers all companies use.
I put together my own 100ah rated at 200A continuous draw for $600. Has been going daily for over 18 months with no issues
I assembled my own
@@HuntandFish cool story 👍
@@Phil_McAvity lol spend the extra on a brand name like redarc and you might as well drive a greatwall with a hilux badge
Being a Malaysian, the best system gotta be a system that doesn’t lighten my wallet like crazy. If a Redarc 100Ah cost 2K in Ozzie, it will cost nearly 8-10K in Malaysia, that’s a sum that many don’t earn 🥶
Many in Australia can't afford the Redarc prices either.
Come here to OZ Ying, you are Welcome !!!
Thanks heaps lads. Learned a ton from this video!
Great detailed video mate! I’m getting a new canopy built and throwing the redarc gear at it and lithium battery is my go to!
OMG, would love your setup, but my wife kill me if I spent that much without even not knowing the cost, my guess around $6k to $7k, I will check out your video on it.
I needed to change out my 3 X 100ah AGM batteries after 4 years of use, did ok, but were never very good.
In the process of changing them out to 3 X 100ah lithium batteries found, they were wired up incorrectly which may have been the cause of poor battery performance while camping.
Now have my 3 X 100ah batteries, went cheaper brand, same as what was in my camper trailer, VoltaX, ($410 each) new Renogy 25ah lithium charger and boy it's bloody great.
I have at least 260ah of useful power, chargers very quickly, only use around 50 ah's per day/night and the solar panels put it all back the next day. And the weight saving, around 60kg.
Time will tell if these cheaper batteries last there 8 to 10 years, but at this price, if I got 5 or 6 I will be happy.
Found the VoltaX, its gone up $19
My wife left me for another woman 20+ years ago. Not unusual in Calif. So, I asked my doggy if she cared about me spending $$$$ on lithium batteries. She sat there wagging her tail with the smiley face on, so I guess it was OK.
@@kimmer6 that's the way to to it, hahaha.
AGM and other lead acid batteries can have several times the number of charge/discharge cycles if you use the right charger. a proper charger will remove all the build-up on the plates that reduce the life span of the battery. the problem is typical chargers don't actually "completely" charge the battery they stop short which leaves the sulfate to build up on the plates. sulfation builds up on the discharge cycle and can be totally removed on a "complete" recharge. this is how lead acid batteries are reconditioned to practically new.
If that was true then big business would be doing it instead of replacing $10 k worth of batteries every 2 years in ups systems .
@@chrisward5626 maybe they should be 🙂
Pretty sure big business knows more tricks then some youtube hack . Its simply a myth scam to recondition lead acid batteries .
@@chrisward5626 LOL. wow, that's just dumb and uneducated, (unless you work for a supplier of new batteries to businesses) this isn't some youtube hack, the principle has been around for years, it's just not widely promoted because strictly speaking it wouldn't be good for battery sales in general. go do your homework, you might find yourself a little more educated after a bit of research.
@@MrTubeuser12 lol it is some fake hack . Not sure how many batteries you have ever pulled apart but once sulphated it degrades the plates and they dont fix themselves .
This was very helpful thank you! Subbed 👍
Thank you Shauno . Now i know which battery to buy and why. Keep up with the good work
I'm surprised you didn't mention the biggest "con" of LIthium batteries (other than the initial cost of purchase), and that is "heat". Lithium battery life will degrade much quicker and won't perform as well, if its constantly exposed to high temperatures. Making them unsuitable for under bonnet mounting. They're most ideal for in-car or in-canopy mount.
Bloody hell you boys keep putting out some quality content. Can’t believe you keep hittin the nail on the head with these topics. Absolutely cracker videos that generally bear a lot of significance in the 4wd community. Super content that’s keepin us all entertained and informed throughout Covid 🤟🤟
Much appreciated!
Only problem is the video is full of misinformation and is basically an advertisment for redarc lithium batteries. If youre killing an AGM in 3 years you're doing something seriously wrong. That is ridiculous.
Just one quick question. An AGM battery can go through a rejuvenation process basicly making the old battery like new again. Can this be done with lithium?
If you have prismatic cells then individual cells can be pulled out and replaced, simple job really
AGMs cant do this. You can not rejuvenate AGMs as their wear is a physical process that can't be reversed. The lead sulphate crystals are not conductive and slowly replace the active material, and not only that are physically bigger in size and slowly crack the lead plates. You can't uncrack lead with a chemical process or a fancy electronic signal. There are chemicals and processes out there that can temporarily give them a bit of a boost, but all you are doing is accelerating their wear even faster and they always fail. Flooded cells are even worse as the active material falls to the bottom of the cell. You can't electrically pick up that lead and put it back in the plates.. its at the bottom of the cell.
@@colinsmith6340 you're wrong. I've done it multiple times already mate. Look for the projecta pro-charge. I got the 16A vertion. Also get a solar battery and system tester. The charger has a rejuvenate setting on it that is made to break down the sulphate crystal build up. It takes 24 hours and may need to be done more than once depending on build-up. The battery tester if used correctly will tell you what your cold crank amps are at and can do load tests and other to see if your battery is OK or not.
@@colinsmith6340 this is not correct. A good battery charger with a agm rejuvenation option (ctek) can do a great job at bringing it back to near new.
@@GarageSupra Thanks mate, i will check into that. I have never trusted the "fix any battery" things you hear about, but CTEK doesn't mess around. Will read up on it.
Thanks for this review on the two batteries, great help for us newbies.
Thanks for a great easy to understand comparison!!! This has really helped me…cruising yacht!
Makes you wonder how much Redarc donated to Shaun to push their product so much, also did not include cost of setup for Lithium(most times AGM charging setup will not work with Lithium, more expense upgrading), reading battery voltage, totally different to AGM (more expense for right monitor)
YES lithium really is worth it! 👍
Great video! Very informative and so much valuable information and anyone can understand!
Thanks Shauno. So well explained. Much appreciated..
You forgot that you can't really mount a lithium battery in your engine bay due to the heat, and lithium batteries also don't like extreme cold weather either. People should also understand the risks associated with Lithium batteries and why it is so important to pair them with the correct charger and BMS.
These are Lifepo4 batteries not the dangerous Lithium cobalt or manganese. You will find Lifepo4 are very safe. But yes with all batteries heat is there enemy. And yes below zero is not good to charge lifepo4 either but in Australia that's not really an issue.
@@MrDingaling007 granted, but the audience isn't just Australian and they have been offroad in the snow a few times. To the average uneducated buyer lithium is lithium and he needs to know the risks
@@QuintinKruse indeed. in finland we get below 0 weather and lithiums just don't work. I did my research and ended up with a 235ah agm. it recharges whenever the engine is on, and combined with the starter agm, I have a total of 330ah. battery was about 400€ and the charger 150€. those will keep the beer cold and the car warm.
Lithium all the way I reckon
Great video, There are still other battery options LiFePO4 and Ni-MH which all have there limits but depending on application can be great. Ni-MH are good if your equipment sits around as they can recharged from basically zero without any real problems, LifePoe4 batteries good for solar storage or large storage for longer trips.
I love new technology but things like Li-ion batteries but anything goes wrong you could loose your car quick or get hurt so its always about risk factors.
Everyone has there preference but why some people still like old school maybe heavy but withstand the test of time and don't need no fancy electronics to keep you safe
im really happy with this video, I just learn about solar panel for 3 days and this really help me a lot about battery
Would have been good to emphasise that these are not the same type of lithium batteries used in mobile phones. I.e. There isn’t the fire / explosion risk
Chinese prismatic lifepo4 cells
Need I say more
There is a risk. They have safety features, but if it's crushed in a major accident it will probably explode.
How are they different? Why don't you name the difference in chemicals? Or in any way
Things you didn't cover:
Voltage does not mean anything with lithium. You need to instal a gauge that counts the amps drawn to calculate battery state of charge.
100amp lithium batteries can be bought for much cheaper than 1500 dollars. They start at 400. I'm a fan of redarc and have many of there products but I wouldn't buy there batteries or solar panels, pricing is ridiculous.
Lithiums don't like freezing cold conditions.
Top video. Well presented, very good content with excellent graphics and diagrams. Nice job.
Great video content . . . well thought out and comprehensive. Luckily I can repeat segments because of your speech speed and the language difference (I'm from the USA . . . we usually speak a little slower here). Your quality set up tells me why you can justify high end stuff. I'm glad to be aboard as a new sub.
Just remember that lithium won't run a winch or start the vehicle they can't handle the current draw (amps)
And let's not look past the fact they contain *Chinese* prismatic lifepo4 cells that can explode 🤯
Of course they can? They usally can discharge more amps to a system than a regular battery. Have you not seen the small battery engine starter kits?
@@iniminy3896 test that theory with your money by all means I'm only auto electrician wtf would I know 🤣
@@peopleshit5661 youve already seen in the video and have examples all around you. You gotta be one of those stubborn bad technicians😂 saying lithium cant run stuff when you got ev.
@@iniminy3896 not at all I have one it's great except for the bms shut it down trying to start when try to start my 4x4 when my alternator died an I had flattend my main battery the day before then it did the same thing running the winch buddy
There are plenty of LiFePO4 start batteries our there. They're a lot more common in aircraft these days.
In the USA they also sell them for starting the Cummins, Duramax, etc engines. That normally run dual lead acid for starting.
Just like that deep cycle AGM battery wont work well as a start battery.
First?
Yup concrats
Excellent video I really appreciate the detailed info. You articulate very well and the material is easy to follow. Cheers mate Allan USA
Excellent analogy of deoth of discharge for the AGM.
Good Afternoon shauno good information on Batteries thank you
Shauno mate’ great content as always! I’m in the process of building a 12 volt system for
My 4wd.
Great job, Shauno !
The 80s set-up with a lithium is the go for myself as a weekend trip runner with coffee on tap 👌 😀
After running two solid systems with lead acid and AMG plus gel. I finally bought my very first Lithium battery. Until I test it I will become an 100% believer in Lithium batteries. What I have been threw and now these studies are out. I am sitting at an 90% believer in Lithium batteries and I am supper excited for my very first Lithium battery to come in. Thanks for the information.
I have amg batteries and they do better in the cold. I've been researching battery warmers for lithium batteries because I think lithium batteries have the advantage otherwise. Thanks for the video.
Interesting , Thank You . Happy Camping
This is such a great video! Thank you!
I’m an electrician and wanted some real world info on these 2 batteries for a project.
Best video ever, you covered everything and tested everything perfectly.
I’m subscribing even though I don’t 4wd.
As always, great vid Shauno....! Love the technical content...very useful and informative. Say hi to Graham, Jocko and the boys for me. 😎
great video and wonderful explanation. Looking forward to work on my own thing soon.
Thanks for the explanation shauno 👍, just need to see it in action a bit more 😁