The problem with Noitas secrets
ฝัง
- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 15 พ.ย. 2020
- me rambling and malding over the puzzles in this otherwise fantastic game.
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Noita fans eating 400 pounds of dirt to see if the next one grants them inmortality:
It's gotta happen someday
One of them. will I just know it
legends say they're still eating dirt
someone drank the whole lake
this is the day i decided to remove dirt from noita
posted it on the wrong channel oops
Epic fail
elmer moment
Why do you even have a second channel if both channels push out great content to begin with?
Whoooops
Bruh'd
I've been playing this game since it launched and have never:
a) Seen these bosses
b) Known about the parallel worlds
c) Made a wand as op as any of the one's seen here
So to summarize this proves the saying that if you're walking in Finland and a Finn walks past you, you are Estonian.
What the heck does that phrase mean?
@@rustyfisher2081 lol
@@rustyfisher2081 You are kinda slow, arent ya?
@@Raiju2 nah, i'm just not a fin or estonian, so i'm guessing it was lost in translation
@@rustyfisher2081 You gave me just the answer I was looking for.
But seriously, if you are walking on a street and someone walks past you, you are walking slow. Its a stereotype joke.
At this point I've resigned myself to viewing Noita as 50% roguelike game, and 50% ARG-social-experiment-modern-art-piece birthed from Finnish druid magic. If your game's secrets get to the point where literally one in a million players can be reasonably expected to stumble across the solution without consulting the wiki or community content, you have ceased designing a game, and moved on to... something else. I absolutely respect the idea of adding conceptually interesting shit to a game regardless of whether 99.9% of the playerbase will enjoy or even get to experience said shit, but as a player I can't honestly say it counts as a selling point.
Yeah its kinda my stance too. Very well worded, props man.
I think what's problematic is that there is a reward structure that involves the game itself, but asks for a meta approach outside the game. I think these sorts of super secret journeys should just result in finding an image of someone's cat or a message that says, "You're a tool." Probably the best easter eggs in games have zero impact on the game.
Honestly I think they probably just see this as the multiplayer component. Instead of co-op they have have this big metagame that we're all solving together.
couldnt have said it better myself
I think its fine. The game is playable all the way to its last boss without anyneed for secrets. Rarely devs takes this road and I personally appreciet it but the roguelike structure make it doble the problem to look for the secrets let alone to be found. Wich is fine too but it make it a bit too tied to rng and skill
Most puzzles in this game are pretty much impossible to solve, but I actually found the End of Everything with my friend without using a wiki. We had been kicking the stone hands just to get the gold, since those guys dropped a lot. One run we kicked all three, and got the Broken spell. We had already figured out that we could repair Broken Wands on the anvil, so we tried it with the broken spell and it worked. We figured out pretty quickly that we needed a specific location, the crosshairs on the spell told that to us. We tried in the Holy Mountain, in the Dragoncave, by the statues, but we eventually figured out with our second to last portal that we needed to cast it at the intersection. We finished the run and cast End of Everything right before activating The Work, and we watched the chaos unfold as the credits scrolled.
That sounds absolutely perfect
Yeah I really don't think that one is impossible to figure out organically. The tools and details are there and I'm glad I saw this comment. I feel validated.
Epic run.
Honestly, my biggest problem with this game is that the secrets do not respect your time. Even if you KNOW about them getting there can take forever.
I feel the same. I bought Noita because I like particle physics but stopped playing because I don‘t like dying at or before the third stage everytime. It made the game very uninteresting.
I tried to explore but either couldn’t get to the areas I wanted or died trying. The game actively disincentivized me to play it by restricting what I could do.
@@comradecameron3726 Look, I had a similar experience with the game, but I made it change. Now at least on every run I see something new!
Try to change the way you approach the game, play a bit everyday but not a lot, or maybe a lot one day and then rest for a few weeks...
Hey, at least professional no-lifers can show me what I'm missing out on with a highlight reel. XD
@@XIceZeroX I did not wanted to put that mod because I felt like it was cheating.
But I gave up and put it because it makes the game more fun, just like the creator of the mod said.
Besides, you can always edit your wands by doing tricks to not trigger the holy mountain, but that is just time consuming.
One of my favorite QOL mods is simple but very nice, where enemies have a chance to drop a health pickup when they die. You can adjust how frequently they appear and how much they heal you, with either a numeral or percentile amount. It doesn’t break the game, but it’s very handy nonetheless
I think the portal one could've worked if the anvil room had some hand decorations, and the statues saying where you should cast the portal had hands instead of spears. That way, hands would tie it all together.
when i first discovered the forge i knew everithing broken needs to be there so i think it works
I mean there are notable hints for everything but the statues. The hands show how many more need to be kicked, the anvil can already fix broken things. Even if you dont k ow what the anvil does you can probably put 2 and 2 together and think: "oh, it probaböy fixes stuff"
@@dinoaurus1 Disagreed. The game gives you no reason to kick the statues, even if you did you probably wouldn't even notice the others. I never tried using the anvil because I genuinely thought it was some sort of decoration. The statues are meaningless unless you did all those other convoluted things and even if you got to that point its entirely possible to not see the statues or write them off as decoration.
@@ComputerGirlMae The game gives you the ability to kick things, and your first instinct somehow isn't to kick the obviously kickable objects to find out what happens? The game randomly generates pretty much the entire world, and absolutely everything has some kind of reaction with something else, and persistent structures that show up every time don't stand out to you?
That's not the game's fault. It's nobody's fault that the experience and you do not mesh.
Noita is a game about alchemy. In broader strokes, it's a physics game. The soul of alchemy is experimentation, and such is also the soul of physics games. Alchemy was one of the earliest examples of throwing science to the wall and seeing what sticks, with only the smallest, weakest of links to guide you, and sometimes no hints at all, and seeing what conclusions you can draw from that. If you don't have the instinct to experiment, then of course something is going to seem wrong.
Just the same as how the soul of farming games are patience, and the soul of action games is the desire to improve, to overcome. Everyone has experiences they like to focus on. How deep into the rabbit hole of that experience they're willing to go also changes from person to person.
You see the statues. You kick them, or go in the direction they're pointing. You see the hands, you kick them or shoot them. Maybe you have liquids - do liquids do anything to it? So on and so forth. Noita is a game about doing EVERYTHING and seeing what results.
I mean...it's all about "The End of Everything" spell, you know, the spell that supposed to erase the world or any caster, it's dangerous (and quite possibly forbidden), so it should be sealed and never found. At least that's what I think, that way the complicated path and no clues what should the person do to find that spell...these things make sence
I think the idea they wanted to go for was to have these mysterious hidden things that are near impossible to find without the community working together to figure out cryptic vague crap which goes against the usual mentality game devs usually have, that being to guide the players in some way to experience every possible thing
more likely to be discovered by somebody with infinite hp/digging just messing around tho.
Legit, the game stands as a testament to the term “Git Gud Lozer.” Alot of the community figured out and are figuring out secrets just by doing it. Idky but with the whole “devs should have made this more engaging and easier to do these things” stupid. The point the devs even said was that the game would be unforgiving. Focused mainly on those dedicated to saying “Fuck it”
@@jamzee_ all it does is force you to use a wiki. having tips or whatever inside the game isn't gonna make people instantly figure it out if they're vague enough
elite dangerous does the same and it's awsome but 90% of players don't get it. But to be honest. I really don't care about the brief experience of the casuals because this type of design enhances the longterm apeal of a game a lot. What makes people think a casual player should uncover "secrets"? It's not a secret if that's possible. A good videogame secret is almost completely invisible to the causal player. That's good game design.
@@rixgaming9989 the difference between this game and elite is that this game has base content, and elite... Really doesn't. If all your content is boring, repetitive "gameplay loops" with little sense of achievement and completely out of whack risk-reward balancing, or extremely convoluted secrets that take groups of dedicated hobbyist scientists weeks to figure out, necessitating use of out of game tools to achieve, then you should really reconsider either adding more base content, rethinking how you do your puzzles, or reconsidering why you chose this content model of all places in a spaceship simulator game advertised as a successor to the elite franchise. Elite, frontier and frontier: FE didn't do this shit.
Right now, these secrets are elite: dangerous entire selling point. Not because that's what's advertised, but because it's pretty much all that's there. And I have to say, Easter egg lile secrets 99% of the playerbase will never truely interact with... Aren't a good selling point. In fact they're a really bad one.
/rant
Before it was cursed rock, it was very dense rock, and eventually, you'll realize you can get through it.
But that point came too early, so the devs kneejerked and made it cursed rock.
But in doing so, they made parallel worlds a total guide dang it and made it implausible for someone to assume without outside help that there's actually something on the other side.
yeah i thought it was impossible to cross until i read a guide
tvtropes reference!
Minecraft is another huge guide dang it, but its lifelong affinity with TH-cam content creators has made us all semi-blind to that. (Like, who, EVER, would think to make a nether portal out of obsidian blocks in that exact configuration and then set the inside on fire?)
UPDATE: For some beyond weird reason, TVTropes doesn't have a Guide Dang it Tab on Noita...
@@TheTrenchesYT Interestingly, they actually solved the Nether portal issue with the ruined portals that now spawn in the world. You can also figure out you need to light in on fire due to there being a lot of lava/fire around it and the chest often contains a flint&steel.
I mean nowadays everyone knows how to access the nether but I can see someone who's never played MC before going in blindly and being able to figure out you need to do something with the ruined portals now that they spawn naturally.
@@Daltoniss Maybe... But even still, guessing that you need to remove the crying obsidian and that the fire needs to be put specifically inside the frame seems a bit unlikely. Not to mention it could take a very long time before someone figures out that you use a diamond pick for 30 seconds to pick up the obsidian you need
Noita communicating secrets is like flirting without interacting with the other person.
and being in another country
we got the same mentality when it comes to playin games
ross+albino collab is something I would pay to see
but albino would call ross a maggot the whole time because ross is a gremlin and ross would call albino a rat bastard because albino is a rat bastard
nice bot comment
FuryForged is gonna be furious about that.
I see your commentry and raise you - me.
I just played straight, tried some wand combinations and that's about it. From start to ending, killing the boss and that was the deal for me, mostly.
Living up to his name
You are exactly right. Most people will look at that cursed rock between worlds and be like, well there is nothing but death beyond here. Because many games have done their out of bounds areas in a very similar same way. A hint for that is definitely needed to get past that preconception, so that players have at least a chance of figuring it out on their own. Sure some people will find out naturally, but they're like in that
Personally I think the anvil is a pretty good one due to the "broken wand" items which are far more common than the "broken spell".
Both of these items have a similar name and are pink so if you ever tried to throw a broken wand on the anvil (which is a much more reasonable thing to do than throw a spell you're practically never going to get) you would see that it repairs and then the moment you found the broken spell you would instantly be able to deduce that the anvil can repair it.
Additionally I do think the anvil stands out a bit just because its ALWAYS there, every run never changes is always in the corner, which does give away that it isn't just an ordinary room.
yeah, I agree
but the part that happens AFTER the anvil with those pointing statues is ridiculous tho, I doubt the average player would figure that out on their own
@@remix2593 agreed imagine figuring out that the two angel statues you saw actually meant something
@@warp5820 Well, if what lead you to finding the broken spell was a statue, maybe they would have a connection? That would be my logic
I like the he doesn't even mension that the "spell waiting for you, that's your reward" just fucking annihilates you and the surrounding area, repeatedly
It’s called the end of everything, what would you expect lmfao
It's like you're put in a dark room and told to find the end of a thread with out even giving you the start of the thread
You re not even told there is a thread.
And you don't know what a thread is.
And the instruction is written down in Sanskrit
@@TheTrenchesYT and it's written on the bottom of your shoes
Specifically on the topic of showing lava lakes are bottomless:
I remember early versions of Terraria, where the indication was twofold: first, the screen stopped scrolling once you hit the bottom of the world, and second, you could eventually hit the true bottom and run back and forth across your HP and Mana bars as if they were tangible objects (they were bottom-aligned back then instead of in the top-right corner like they are now).
i was there every step:D
dont care m8
@@tsosmi1902 pissed
Congratulations!
I wasn't :D
@@shpeck1 *disgraceful.*
Just kidding you good
I think the basic idea is that you're supposed to treat Noita secrets like a community effort. Almost all the secrets have been discovered by multiple players sharing their own finds until someone eventually assembled all the pieces and cracked the final code.
I like the idea, but for someone that enjoys discovering by themself and not getting spoiled, it's just a bad experience. That lava lake thing is just plain stupid. Not even a barrier at the end?... Nah, fk u. Loop for 30 mins cuz lol. There was a secret before in that water lake but.... How about we waste ur time now?
@@killereagle666 the game already has enough content. The secrets are just rewards for your patience and/or intelligence
@@siduxjxhdgzhdjxhxuuxxyhgg1079 Not an excuse for horrible puzzle design. The issue isn't that the secrets are cryptic, the issue is that there are no clues at all. And as someone who likes to play blind it's so frustrating because that's literally impossible with this game.
@@ComputerGirlMae i never said they werent frustrating or a waste of time lmao i dont like that so much content in the game is locked behind shitty puzzles that require datamining either (if ur a normal person ofc but im fairly confident ppl would be able to uncover most secret content without datamining if they put a extreme amount of time into this game which would be absurd)
it's ultimately disappointing for someone who wants to piece it together themselves
and it also defeats the purpose of having a secret puzzle the community has to solve when these things would so often be discovered by basically immortal runs stumbling across it
my first experience with the game was playing it normally, utterly failing, then I started to travel the world, and quite frankly. The amount of stuff that is everywhere amazed me. I'm not a person who avoids spoilers, but boy do I love finding secrets on my own. But when it came to this game, I was actually forced to look up certain aspects, I decided to say "is this really worth it" when I decided to keep the spoilers minimum and only look up a map. When I found a map, I saw all of these areas and weird structures that seemed impossible to get to, I was at my friends place so I didn't have the liberty of spending all the time I wanted on the game. But instead we figured out "there's so much to this game, let's just try everything." and thus began a 2 month journey of endless experimenting, throwing scrolls on different structures, digging in certain places and even "self destructing" (don't want youtube on my ass) in areas that seemed unique. Which meant a lot of progress was lost, over and over.
The base game is enough to be an instant recommendation on it's own, but telling someone to get it because of the secrets, is like telling a casual videogame player to pick up From The Depths, because it's really fun.
Yes. It is. But for your everyday average videogame enjoyer, are those ~50 hours of college degree level engineering tutorials really worth it? Without knowing what's ahead, a sane person would drop the game, or enjoy what it already has. But for those who are ready to leave their life of simplicity and comfortably little understanding of life. The game opens a new world, not only do you leave with knowledge of things you really have no reason to know, but you see the world in a different light, you start to notice the fine things life offers. You realize, man isn't evolving machines and automating things because of capital gain, or due to laziness. We just wish to have our necessities be done without consuming our time, so we can better use it to enjoy life.
people study for years, learning how to put car engines together, when factories only need the blueprints, and the machines do the rest.
We choose what we do with our lives, be it wasting time on videogame world secrets, learning how to create a functional ship and programming an AI which automatically targets enemy ships, firing a particle cannon, which you spent 3 hours on designing, at the location of the densest infrared heat signature with pinpoint accuracy, while also accounting for bullet drop, velocity of the target, travel time of the projectile, velocity of your vessel and the errors caused by the ocean waves bouncing it around. Or simply learning something in real life, it all concludes with the same realization.
We simply seek enlightenment, we seek pride, we seek accomplishments. We seek only to satiate our gluttonous egos. And there's nothing wrong with that.
Anyway Noita is pretty ok, the duck spell is a bit too rare in my opinion, solid 7/10 from me.
Thank you Yoshi for your comment. It is very fulfilling to see a person that thinks like you. Your words made me calm down, I started to look into my future with a realisation that no matter what I do, if it would fulfill me it will be worth it. Have a nice day.
Most of the secrets are intended as a sort of community-driven ARG for the discord users. It's kind of why I avoid them. They're not meant for hermits like me.
say ARG outloud
its the Frustration Sound you make when solving out-of-game puzzles instead of.........
playing a video game
It's not even an arg though. Args at least have hints or clues that might require many minds to come together.
This is just lazy. I love Noita, but there's nothing great about the way secrets are implemented in the game. It takes real time, mind, and effort to be cryptic or leave bread crumbs that will make people scratch their heads, but can still be figured out.
It takes no effort at all to plop in a secret with no clues.
Make a better game then lol
this is why i hate Fez
and this is enough to deter me from Noita
@@bbbbbbb51 I think, regarding the difficulty to play through the puzzles is high enough to say, it's about solving, not how.
Noita: -“oh so you beat the toughest boss in the game? Here have this 2 spells that kill you as a reward gg”
The (oftentimes) tedious, ponderous esotericism is at odds by the twitchy, roguelike nature of the game. On a purely mechanical level, Noita is an action-platformer shooter with permadeath, where all of your enemies have lighting reflexes and can kill you before you even see them. And on a purely mechanical level, several of the secrets just involve walking/flying/swimming/digging to a location and...that's it. And because there's very little meta-progress and a lot of perma-death, the rewards for finding these secrets apply only to a single given run. But because their rewards are powerful, optimal play requires you pursue them.
In general, I kind of hate hunting for secrets in Noita. They just feel so detached from the actual minute-to-minute gameplay, so boring to recollect, but I'm making my run shittier if I don't go after them. It really feels like the devs chose the core gameplay mechanics on a whim, because all of the more abstract game design (secrets, experimentation, etc.) is so at odds with the "zip around and zap goblins" stuff. I can't help but think Noita would be better off as a dedicated, slow-burn metroidvania.
After playing it for some time I’ve finally decided that I think Noita does work well as a rougelike, but I’m still inclined to believe that there is a lot of truth to what you are saying, and that perhaps this game’s mechanics would be more fun and most importantly more _accessible_ if used in another form. Noita is a very strange and unique game in that I feel like it is designed to be enjoyed properly by about 1% of it’s players. Albino is clearly in that one percent if you have watched his runs, running across the whole world getting secrets, building OP wands ect. However most players are like me: they die in the first few levels every time and rarely have the chance to create anything cool. The most fun I have had in the game is consistently from the daily challenge runs, where it starts you off with a bunch of totally random items, wands, and perks, and you can replay the same start as many times as you want. I think this version of the game, where you can get into the fun stuff straight away and have a better chance of surviving and progressing in the early levels without the slough of trying to maximise gold and wand pickups so you can get good later, is a better example of how this game should have been realised
Its a very fun roguelike when it's fun, but unfortunately most of the time it's dying on floor one without any opportunity for me to use skill (I once had a seed that generated lava or lots of rock over every single portal. I spawned with fireball.).
And even when I don't get fucked by RNG, you end up spending half your run back tracking through everything with black holes so you don't 'waste' the actually viable run.
I wish I could play games blind, I always end up looking up random crap about it and then get a lot of secrets and stuff spoiled lol
Same
Norwegian man complains that he can't understand the high iq puzzles of literal wood elves.
Perkele!
puzzles were designed in a sauna after 15 lapin kultas
I've played this game a lot, just as a simple roguelike...Had no clue any of this was like this. I just try to beat the endgame boss didn't even know how much I'm missing. It makes me sad, because you say it's so big. It seems like it if it's so. However it felt actually minimal/empty because it doesn't do the best job of advertising/engaging it's features.
Fighting the final boss at 3 frames till it crashes is a feature
It's 👏 a 👏feature 👏
It actually is, surprisingly enough. There’s a special label in the error logs for when your game crashes because too many spells are on screen. “The game crashed because [steam username] was too powerful.”
Don't complain because you don't have the specs
@@Zeckle11 bruh albino went to fight the final boss on his beast of a rig and the game froze and crashed
@@Zeckle11 whos complaining?
@@Zeckle11 your rig would melt too, don't worry.
8:56 yup, good luck figuring out the recipe of living concoction because it randomises every run
Which prevents it from being absurdly overpowered.
this guy is probably using a mod that gives LC to him at spawn anyways - or he doesn't even know what it is. One of the two options.
Bc u arent supposed to use it if u arent extremely extremely lucky or have patience to mix every material to make it. If it was so easy that u could just get it every run bc it had a consistent recipe the game would be too easy.
Guys, no one's asking for the recipe to be "starting flask + water"
There are just some people who want riddles/hints that narrow the possible recipes down to some combination of 5 or so liquids. Y'know, as opposed to the only legit method being: get almost an hour into a single playthrough (sometimes more) so that you can _finally_ get enough of every single liquid to start experimenting. And if something goes wrong, BOOM. Dead. Save gone. Hours wasted. Get fucked.
@@thefunnyaerialman
it's either:
1. LC is made from the same rare materials (meaning it's random chance if you get them anyway) or it's made from less rare materials (meaning the game is too easy for even slightly informed players)
or
2. LC is made from random materials, meaning it's random and everyone can stumble across it without having game knowledge, while also stopping people who do have game knowledge from finding, for example, ambrosia and some other material and knowingly having immortality liquid and big healing liquid at the same time
I think there are two main design philosophies when it comes to secrets like these: are you targeting the player on a personal level or the whole community. Games like Fez, The Witness and Noita to a certain point, were more focused on targeting the whole community to figure out all the deeper stuff the game has to offer.
My main problem with that philosophy is that you have to go OUTSIDE the game to coordinate and discover that, not to mention play it when it's new and relevant to be part of the "zeitgeist". But, it can be very satisfying, build communities and camaraderie. I think that is, for instance, a big reason why the Souls series is so popular. It almost gravitates to sort of a ARG type of thing, not personal discovery.
On the other hand, look at any point & click adventure game or other roguelikes with straight forward or more telegraphed secrets: they don't have that big aura or "epic" allure to them as these ones do- but yeah, you feel a lot smarter when you figure them out, sure.
And another thing, I'm pretty sure the secrets in Noita are so well hidden, because there is a pretty good chance you'll have an epiphany in your time playing - how a certain set of perks and spells will totally break the game and make you a god, leaving you to mess around and poke at every nook and cranny of the world and the game itself.
Anyhow, love the videos, cheers ^_^
This is one of my favorite game philosophies out there, and part of the reason I think Dark Souls and Demon Souls did so well/took off. But those games had an in game system in form of phantom bloodstains, messages, and summoning, for players to interact with each other inside the game and guide each other towards that obtuse fog wall, or let you know about the completely invisible magical path you can somehow walk on. I think the more games can retain that feeling of making us come together as a community, but without taking it outside the game, is a real recipe for success.
Yes and no, the fact is, only like 0.1% of the casual playerbase has the opportunity to have that epiphany, and become a "normal" noita player, since look at the achievemnts, only 14% of ALL the playerbase has reached the normal ending
@@ZaChemas 9/10 people don't finish any game they are currently playing, that's nothing new and well known looking at statistics like end game achievements, that's kinda beside the point I was making...
Gonna have to disagreee with how you categorise things.
Souls don't gravitate to that ARG type design at all really, you can quite easily find the majority of the games content barring maybe 1 or 2 things but those are never big events like a boss fight and are more things like specific character quests.
This is especially telling with how the messaging system is pretty much designed so that you don't need to go outside of the game at all even if you do get stuck.
Secondly in your response to the other guy.
9/10 is a number you just pulled out of nowhere, while I agree most people don't finish the games they play Noita is exceptionally low even compared to other games.
For example Hollow Knight has all 3 original endings more commonly achieved by players than Noita's basic ending (on steam), the same is true for most souls games, other rougelikes with games like Enter the gungeon having more % completion of the entire game than Noita's first ending, other secret heavy games like Animal Well and Tunic having the main secret be notably more commonly achieved etc...
The other guy's post wasn't beside your point either, it was highlighting how 'having an epiphany' should really be the least of the developers design considerations when barely anyone even reaches that point partly because they don't get to see those depths of secrets within the game itself.
1:51 that muffled scream got me
The thing I love about this game is how arcane and obscure aspects of it are. Once you find one or two secrets, you start questioning if there's more. And by the time you're working through them, you never know if you've found them all.
I freakin love it.
this seems like a main vid but a little stripped down
I like it, hope he does more
It is a main vid, Albino commented here he posted it on wrong channel, lol
I wanna say I agree with you, a game should contain all information needed to find and solve all puzzles, or else be labeled as a cryptic mess that you'll need to google shit to solve.
It could kinda be argued that because it uses “broken” that it’s hinting at the fact that you can fix it somewhere i.e. the anvil
Also he said the anvil room looks like any other room in that place, but it only spawns in the bottom right corner of the area and has an anvil unlike everything youve seen in that place.
Anvils usually are used to make new things, not fix broken ones. Not even mentioning that only metal can be repaired on anvil.
@@SwordWieldingDuck If I can draw the conclusion I did knowing barely anything about anvils, then most other people can too
Yes the anvil one is fine, but not the statue intersecting points one.
The thumbnail is amazing. Also you talking about stuff is great. You should do it more often
The Noita secrets are so insane that they're more of a group puzzle than something individual people can figure out.
personally i'm the kind of guy to always have the wiki open when playing a game, i just find it more enjoyable that way, but i can see how it can be frustrating when it doesnt explain to you how certain mechanics works( like parallel worlds/hell/sky etc).
i think they can definetly do a better job of hinting at this sort of stuff especially since so many secrets were discovered by trial and error or straight up data-mining the shit out of the game.
I liked how one of the tablets says "that which is above is like that which is below." and "that which is below is like that which is above." so if you discover either of those 2 areas you know to look at the other one.
I’m a wiki rat for a lot of the games I play. The two things I needed the wiki open for 100% of the time, where the wiki was basically the lifeblood of the run, were Hollow Knight, and the Terraria Calamity Mod
Legit my no. 1 rule for roguelikes or any complex-ish game is "have the wiki in another tab"
If you don't, then you can't learn the game at any reasonable pace.
this games secret puzzles remind me of how spelunky dose its secret puzzles
well splunky has alot of hints tbh
I really liked this, idk, video format or whatever its called. Keep up man, love you're content
Been playing a couple years now and I JUST DISCOVERED about all these secrets from watching Noita tips on TH-cam, this game is like a new game to me again.
Im from Finland and the name of the game noita means witch in english
i completely agree. great game with extreme depth but it leaves new players at the kiddie and of the pool with no apparent way to get out
Very good, informational vid. Would definitely like to see more in the future
*in a thick french accent* "has he bought yet ??? If yes reduce the sell price"
I actually really enjoy how ambiguous everything in this game is. Easter eggs and secrets and everything else that's hidden just give me huge retro vibes, and I love that
Solid points brother. Couldnt agree more.
300 + hours in, secrets blind, and I love exploring this game and keep finding new stuff.
This video perfectly captures one of my main issues with the game. To provide another example of how the game just completely fails to communicate something with the player: each seed has 2 hidden recipes comprised of 3 random ingredients that, when brought together, can make a power healing potion (and healing is in extremely short supply in Noita until you manage to break the game enough) or a potion that can turn things to gold. There is no possible way of deducing these recipes for your save file in game... You must either use a tool to decode your seed or get unimaginably lucky and have your 3 random ingredients just happen to meet up in the world naturally.
I added a mod to my game to create tablets hidden in the world with these recipes to at least give myself a chance of being able to do craft them naturally, a feature that when I told a friend about it, he was shocked wasn't in the game from the start.
"You know: fuck you, you're dead!" should basically be the subtitle to this game though.
I mean, when you watch a run of, look at or even hear about this game before buying it you are going to be incentivized to not buy it if you're like me.
This is not a game one imagines a happy go lucky developer put together for people to have fun in, this is a game created by an old hand DM who thought the Tomb of Horrors was too tame.
This is a game where I'd straight up assume one of the secrets is to get to the deepest layer and then kill yourself in a very specific spot, it's a game from someone who looked at Dark Souls and then went: "Ok, so people actually like games that are hard and doesn't tell you anything straight, so I'm going to make a game where every pixel on screen can and will kill you, outfit you with weapons that can and will give them the opportunity to do so, and populate it with enemies that can and will require you to use them so that everything can then have a fair go at ending your life."
Ah, but then I went to the left
Sounds like ur making too many assumptions
it do be
it would sound normie af if they do what you expect them to do
It's not that bad, jeez. You're forgetting a huge part of the fun is also just slamming magical effects together to see what sticks.
Just making it sound like the game has no merit to fun. I think the secrets are pretty much impossible to (so they were 100% meant for community ARGS like the old way you'd unlock the Lost in Binding of Isaac), but like...idk just chill
The dev's other game, Environmental Station Alpha has this sort of cryptic puzzle stuff in it
if you hate looking at game wikis for your own sanity never play La Mulana lol
It seems that Arvi Teikari knows how to do good puzzles :)
what the fuck is this foreshadowing
Over 420 hours played, didn't even finish the main quest on my own. The only time I did "complete the work" was using a mod so I didn't even earn the trophy.
Never got builds that looked remotely as strong as these (600+ runs), never got endless black holes to get to the parallel worlds or explore the bottom of the lava lake.
I did find about 5 secrets, including the drone racetrack. The anvil thing, never would have guessed it in my life. Never found that key too.
I think that the unattainability of success in this game is what keeps me playing for so long.
i really like the first puzzle you were talking about. As the player gets better and wants to get farther, they start completely clearing out levels, and when they finish the snowy depths like that after they notice you can kick the statues to spawn more enemies, they will find the broken spell. as they keep going and go to the hiisi base, they might see an anvil and throw the spell on there (you may not think the anvil looked special but when i first saw it i was like "WHAT THE FUCK IS THIS THING") after they continue going and see those statues at the underground jungle, it would be smart to think back to how they got to the broken spell (pointy statues) and end up following to where they point.
the eye puzzle is still unsolved. noita devs really want to keep their secrets
I was honestly wondering if you’d do a noita vid and how you’d turn it into an incoherent mess of editing but this was a pleasant surprise. Good vid all around!
what sucks about these is that there are hints, but the hints are written in books or slabs that you can only read by being next to them, and they take space in your limited inventory if you decide to pick one, so if you ever wanted to read a hint again while trying to figure something out, you need to travel all the way to the book/slab again or pick it up and carry it to a small "base", and if you die while collecting those you have to do every one of these tasks again, like triggering a fungal shift at specific locations, taking the crystal key to the music machines again etc
Thanks, no one has really brought this up too much imo. I appreciate you taking the time to at least talk about this.
I don't think (except for exceptional circumstances) that a game should need you to use external sources to find secrets, or at least the majority of them.
I guess that's the point of these secrets..
yeah i feel the same. i will never have the oh shit moment of "maybe im special and im the first one to experience this" even with the more obvious secrets i never would have noticed. i can barely comprehend making a good wand consistently or remembering to use flasks, so when it comes to things like secrets or random alchemy recipes, or just how you are expected to play the game, im at a loss. i think the game is great, but i would think it was greater if the community wasnt so big. it would only be that good if it were the 80's, it just dropped and theres no internet of course, and its up to me and a bunch of college buddies to pick at the game and be the only ones to know the secret. but whats it worth now to find it out yourself when its already posted? all the hidden glyphs in random places but somehow have an order, image after image of what the ingame world map looks like but none on game to signify whats to come, or just how much you are missing. the only hint that i could be missing something is missing spaces on the charts. missing spells and missing kills. i could search forever for the last secrets and never find out.
i just dont get why every channel on the game is like "massive spoilers ahead" and explains how literally no one will ever find this shit out and is probably the source video everyone goes to so they can get that last achievement box.
as a sandbox rouge like its great. as a lore heavy secret filled ARG with indepth sluthing needed ontop of the skill to play it, B-. just read the patchnotes and look in the game files to see whats new.
I personally feel like Noita not telling you anything is one of the charms of the game, though it would be cool if the secrets did have something to tell you what to do and where to go. Though you never know, perhaps they're going to start making clues to better help guide people to the right direction. In fact, they recently added a new biome accessible on the main path, which leads you to an orb that you'd never find on the main path.
another giant middle finger to parallel world travel is the shadow bosses
Loved this video! I wonder what other secrets there are
I'm very glad that I didn't waste too many hours on Noita before watching people play it on TH-cam because geeze even the wand mechanics themselves are just crazy. I'm used to games going out of their way to prevent overpowered combos, I never would have imagined for a second how abusable the wands were. I kept hoping to find a faster wand or a stronger spell and dying over and over because the game is balanced around ridiculous mechanics that I could have been using with the stuff I already had.
And yeah, it's hard to even care about the secrets in the game because they are so ridiculously obscure. They are just time consuming checkboxes to tick off to unlock spells/etc.
I was under the impression that Noita's devs didn't want players to find the secrets
i did not know this game existed until this video. this looks like so much fun
this is like elden ring discourse, the game is big enough that regular players can have a good experience, and curious players will be rewarded.
being able to go left to the tree is a big enough hint that there is more to explore, the sheer size of the world is a big enough hint that you can keep going through the cursed rock. the power of the pit boss shows that you need to use meta mechanics and get creative.
also if you play blind you will NEVER run out of secrets, there isn't a single point where i felt like i ran out of things to do and the satisfaction i have gotten from finding a secret has always made the time spent finding it worth it. either admit that you don't got what it takes or git gud.
and having secrets that lead nowhere is fun imo, because it shows that some secrets are just completely out of your reach. it shows that doing the same thing forever may not always be worth it. sometimes u jus gotta call it a day.
AND THE STATUE SECRET WITH THE PORTAL SPELL. MANNNNN. I LITERALLY FOUND THAT ONE BY MYSELF. GIT GUD.
Just "Albino there is nothing in the lava lake is infinite."
albino : "REALLY?"
"Yes."
I wasted so much time on that dumb lake
Parallel Worlds: *exist*
Speedrunner Mario: First time?
Dude this was a great video like from the editing to what you where even talking about never played this game lol but you sure make it seem fun anyway you did a great fucking job just wanted to let you know
Really enjoying this essay/review type of videos like you did for fortnite and this game
You are correct. I hate having to check wikis all the time, and figuring things out. And it is upsetting when games don't give good enough clues to progression. One of my favorite MC mods of all time is an excellent example of explore and discover. Thaumcraft 4. At the beginning you craft a basic iron capped wand, a scanning object, and a book the mod page tells you how to make. Everything else is in the book. You discover more things by solving these little puzzles with research points you get by scanning various objects with the aforementioned scanner. And if your scanner can't tell you what is in something, it'll tell you what you need to discover, but not what objects that have it. All in all a well crafted mod that took me a while to get the hang of and rewards experimenting and leaving no stone unturned.
I 100% agree with you, even the main "quest" of the game isn't even clear at times, when I first played it I didn't even know if there was a boss I thought it just had endless levels like ho risk of rain used to be. I also thought the boss Pas the first lava lake on he first floor was the final boss when I spawned him
Great video!!
To reach the bottom of the lake, I dried it up *entirely* with acid trail wand. Yes, too much free time.
I'm rather surprised you mentioned not enjoying having to wiki something in a game to figure it out when you also have played Terraria. To me Terraria seems like one of those games where you don't have to, but due by the vast amount of content in it you end up doing it anyways- generally working backwards from item to item. But I certainly do understand what you mean still and I personally look forward to playing Noita as I got it this Christmas and you were always the man I went to for watching Noita content 💟
I think its really more the tone of the game probably
You should try the "quest" system in tarkov. Its like every step in a task is one of these "secrets" like...
Map: all
Objectives: Find the missing informant
No guide, no explanation, no maps or keys or nothing.
Just a dead body in a shack on the outskirts of shoreline map. Like, what.
That's because tarkov isnt actually a game at all; its a russian psy-op designed to make americans want to kill themselves
I fucking love videos like these, please do more of these!
I've been finding in my last game that the same mentality it takes to find parallel worlds also just ruins some other secrets. Like I found the perk that basically shows a map of the world with the little dots, and on my journey to go see what all the dots were I literally just dug into the room with the end of everything between 2 of the dots lol.
I think this game's secrets are one of its strongest elements, not least because the "core content" is so strong that it doesn't feel like it needs to exist. It plays into the game's themes of alchemy and forbidden knowledge. Hell, the only way to beat the game once you reach NG+ or NG++ is to essentially break and exploit its systems to make yourself stupidly powerful. It evokes in the player a sense of breaking the game's natural rules and obtaining power they never were meant to learn of, even though it's all pretty safely within the developer's intentions. The vague puzzles and the secret alchemy mechanics all but confirm to me that this sort of near impossible pursuit of powerful secrets is exactly what the devs were going for.
While on one hand I love the effort put into the obscurity of the game’s depth, I feel that in some way, they have sacrificed the integrity of what makes it a cohesive and digestible game.
The staggeringly low statistics of players who have beaten the game is already a tell of a flawed design. I’m not saying every game should be accessibly beaten by 100% of the player base, just that it should be a bit higher than 14%.
Even though the point of a secret is not to be discovered, it seems a bit unintuitive for them to be near impossible for any sane person to figure out without any clues whatsoever.
In short, I’m saying that I don’t think this is a good game, but it is a fantastically well designed modern art piece in the form of a physics sandbox puzzle wrapped in vile mystery.
I think some rougelites are about getting as far as you can even if you dont necessarily win, that makes this less of an issue. For example I've played maybe 10 hours of FTL and havent gotten close to winning yet, but I wouldn't necessarily say that's a bad thing
that "good morning" made me expect to hear "hey hey people" right after
I like these introspective videos. They remind me of the ones from your main channel.
Maggot
I think you uploaded to the wrong channel
There are pieces of lore in the game that do point to the parallel worlds, fury forged has some good videos on this
Are they as obscure and hard to find as the other secrets?
@@infectedanimal9830 Not terribly. Filling the eye of the skull in the desert with water is quite well telegraphed, by the eyes creating the portals to the Holy Mountains.
YES YES FINALY YOU DID NOITA VIDEO
i love how he says "mana" but it sounds like "mona", and i like his voice
Not albino playing a game with albino
100% agreed. I just beat the game yesterday and after some wiki diving I'm EXTREMELY disappointed with the overall direction of this game. Secrets are fun when you have to put a little work into finding it. This isn't a little work, this is trial and error ARG shit. The secret was fun for precisely the one person who found it, uploaded it and everybody else goes "how the fuck would I have figured that out in a 100 years?"
And yes I'm mostly salty because I spent like 3 hours translating the goddamn language for a statue only to find it says "bambalamb502" thinking it was some sort of code to do with the flute instrument that's sitting 5 feet to the right, thinking it was going to be a cool secret puzzle. Only to find out it's just a memorial to some dipshit's username that finished the game real good. Fuck you Bambalamb, I wasted 4 hours of my life on your stupid memorial, I hope your save corrupts and you lose your crown and necklace cosmetic.
These secrets aren't fun to find, they are frustrating and arbitrary in attempts to spread word of mouth instead of making them fun for the individual. I don't enjoy watching all the secrets unfolded in a video, I want to discover them myself, but I'm certainly not going to unearth every pixel in a world of literally infinite pixels to find them.
Excuse me? I'd be so pissed about that, wow.
Man you got me into meme editing
Even though Ive played this game like crazy and have seen spoilers for a lot of the secrets. I have absolutely no desire to seek them out for myself since some take HOURS to get to or even more if you dont get the rng to make it back to them after getting to a point you can actually go explore them. With all of that one wrong move or some pixels of liquid or misunderstanding of one vague machanic will end your life before you can blink.
Okay, now this is epic
I kind of like how difficult the secrets are to find. Kind of like the old days when you had to write down cheat codes, ask your friends, or just figure things out yourself. It comes down to general curiosity and putting 1 and 2 together. But I get the annoyance
I totally agree with your point of view
IMHO I think the right move was to put these secrets & community efforts, that was nice (although I wouldn't do that myself, but many people liked it & participated so it's fine ?)
and then over time add more & more tweaks & tips (with 1.0 or something) so that casual players can actually find clues to point them in the directions without having to resort to watching furyforged many secrets videos
although to be honest I enjoyed watching him a lot so who knows ? maybe that's part of the experience too ?
Albinos ramblings are quite enjoyable
yknow, they could have put some mural somewhere. we don't know. theres probably a ton of secrets in the game that we've yet to find. It's entirely possible that there's something somewhere that hints at the existence of (spoiler). That's the cool part about Noita, we don't know until we find it.
Thing is, people do know everything about this game.
Through data-mining, mods and wiki articles we have a complete map of the game world, which was also shown in the video, all the in-game lore has been deciphered and it's not gonna take long until someone makes a new seed-based alchemy algorithm either.
@@do-khyi We might have a general map, but datamining doesn't solve everything, either. It also isn't easy for games like this. If theres some sort of mural, and it's just made up of a pattern of pixels, it's going to be hard to find.
Well, this would explain why so many of the streamers that I watched played this game a bit, then dropped it.. They didn't look at wikis, or discord, etc. So they missed out on like 75% of the extra content.
epic ramblings my dude
Really liked this video format, hope you consider doing more of these here on the second channel.
Just got the discord notification
This guy, playing the entire game without help: some of these puzzles are unintuitive
Me, who has never even completed the game, but has watched all fury forged secret videos: wow, what an amateur
Minecraft has the same problem. A Japanese TH-camr called PiroPito who had never player Minecraft played the game from back to front in one world. No wiki or people telling him what to do, all his own learning. Watching him play his way through Minecraft, teaching himself how to build a Nether Portal, how Redstone works, to a full blown villager farm in the sky made out of glass and End Brick blocks, made me realize just how difficult it'd be for someone to play the game offline with no viewing material. It took him something like 3 months to work out how to build the Wither, and that's just because of the painting of it.
4:45 man this Carrion sequel looks great!