383, SBC, TPI, MiniRam vs SuperRam Dyno Comparison on 87 Firebird

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  • เผยแพร่เมื่อ 25 พ.ย. 2024

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  • @1966sander
    @1966sander 2 ปีที่แล้ว +2

    Love the set up, i have a c4 vette 383 miniram also. nice to see a mi guy. oakland county here.

    • @tomorr152
      @tomorr152  2 ปีที่แล้ว

      What engine and trans do you have in your Vett? I just finished porting out a stock base manifold and reinstalled the SR. As soon a winter leaves I'll get it back on the Dyno to see what kind of number it'll give me. Have you ever been to High Octane cafe for cars and coffee? I've only been there a couple times, I work a lot of Saturdays and live an hour away, but it's a cool place.

    • @petercermak4095
      @petercermak4095 2 ปีที่แล้ว +3

      87 C4 owner here. Building a 396 Blueprint racing engine. Jim at TPIS just finished my miniram intake. BPrint dynoed my engine at 520 hp with a ling flat torque curve over 500 from 3000-6500. Moving up from a stock 350 with some top end mods. Will keep you posted.

    • @tomorr152
      @tomorr152  2 ปีที่แล้ว +1

      @@petercermak4095 WOW NICE!! The MR does have a nice flat TQ curve. What camshaft and engine management system are you using? I assume using the BluePrint heads, what CC intake are they? Thanks for watching.

  • @ronb113
    @ronb113 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    Fun video, that’s a great car!

  • @KingJT80
    @KingJT80 หลายเดือนก่อน

    hp will win up top if its geared correctly. The superram might feel faster from stoplights by a little but though

  • @brianpeacock9444
    @brianpeacock9444 3 ปีที่แล้ว +2

    DAAMNN!!! that FORMULA sounds good

  • @daneturk3393
    @daneturk3393 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    Awesome build and video! Really curious about a First Injections comparison. We could probably collaborate on that. I had a superram years ago on my Formula but sold it to go LS, In the process of building a similar AFR 195 Head 11:1 long stroke 396 or 421 SBC build similar to yours for my Caprice wagon and considering the First Injections intake or possibly buying another super ram.

    • @tomorr152
      @tomorr152  ปีที่แล้ว

      My apologies for not seeing your message sooner. Since I made this video I've made a couple of upgrades. I added a set of AFR 195 Competition heads and updated the "Y" pipe from my headers to my 4" exhaust. These upgrades help produce 465hp@6,200 and 435tq@4,900 for the MiniRam and 442hp@5,700 and 465tq@4,300 for the SuperRam, these are rear wheel numbers. The MR is still faster at the track. The best MPH I could get from the SR is 118, the MR got to 122mph. Being my car is now a 6spd manual lauching it is a bit difficult and with the TQ of the SR and traction my clutch has slipped twice.
      It sounds like your building a heavy car, I would expect the First Intake would work well, but if you go any larger than 406 I would use 210cc or larger AFR heads. I probably would've gotten the 210's but my headers are already to close to the floor and the 210's have an even hight exhaust port than the 195's.
      Are you building a cruiser or trying to make it as fast as possible?
      Thx, for watching and commenting.

  • @kevincreech3729
    @kevincreech3729 3 ปีที่แล้ว +2

    Had to sub when I saw your from Michigan. My lt1 is close to your numbers were you able use your OBD 2 the ?

    • @tomorr152
      @tomorr152  3 ปีที่แล้ว +2

      My car is an OBD1 so no. I replaced my ECM with an Dynamic Fuel Injection ECM with basically replaces the stock ECM with just a few wire re-pinned. It's programmable with a laptop and Tuning software from Tuner Pro. It took awhile for me to get the hang of tuning it but I seem to have it working pretty well.

    • @kevincreech3729
      @kevincreech3729 3 ปีที่แล้ว +2

      @@tomorr152 thanks for the info . No one around here would tune my obd2 so I went with Holley T max works good but no gauges sucks . Hope we can run them birds one day keep them bastard child Lt1 alive 👍

    • @tomorr152
      @tomorr152  3 ปีที่แล้ว +1

      @@kevincreech3729 That would be cool. Mine isn't an LT1 but that's ok. I remember when the LT1 was a viable swap for the SB1, but I already had my SuperRam intake which wouldn't just swap over so I stuck with the SB1.

    • @b.c4066
      @b.c4066 3 ปีที่แล้ว

      Right on! Berrien county here, where you all from?

    • @tomorr152
      @tomorr152  3 ปีที่แล้ว +1

      @@b.c4066 Southeast MI.

  • @awfulcoffelsonecargarage8215
    @awfulcoffelsonecargarage8215 3 หลายเดือนก่อน

    I'm running a quick fuel Black Diamond 750 with a air gap intake in my 87 Firebird it made 445 horsepower at 5300 483 ft lb of torque at 4300 I think I'll just stick with carburetor but beautiful car man is exactly like mine but mine has a Finn instead of a spoiler but I have the same black GTA rims 383 rule drive safe later bye

    • @KingJT80
      @KingJT80 หลายเดือนก่อน

      The advantage EFI has is that it can handle altitude changes better an carb can. But that's about it.

  • @petercermak1910
    @petercermak1910 3 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    I'm building a Blueprint racing engine Sb396 with a TPIS mini ram intake. BPE swears that I need a 42lb injector set. I have 30 right now. Also, TPIS tells me that the stock GM fuel pump is only good for 350 HP. My engine dyno'd at 520 with a dual plane 850 dbb pumper holley. I'm asking because that's another $700.00 dollars I'd be spending. Thoughts guys?

    • @tomorr152
      @tomorr152  3 ปีที่แล้ว +1

      I've got 36lbs and upgraded fuel pump. I'm considering going to a 400 or 415 cid and will probably need to go to a 42lbs.

    • @petercermak1910
      @petercermak1910 3 ปีที่แล้ว

      @@tomorr152 One post I read had 30 lb injectors, but he complained that power fell off over 5000. BPE techs say that the brake specific gravity and HP of 475HP+ engines require 40+ injectors to keep them operating at 80% during peak demand and flowing the correct amount of fuel. I guess I'll upgrade since I will boost this engine in the future.

    • @tomorr152
      @tomorr152  3 ปีที่แล้ว +1

      @@petercermak1910 just my opinion but if you think you're going to boost it I would get a fuel pump that's e85 compatible. Boosted engines really do well with e85. Also if you boost it you'll be upgrading injections again, probably to 65 or more depending on how much boost your planning on adding. I've considered adding a torqstorm SC and I think with e85 I was looking at around 70 lbs injectors.

  • @sergiodpk
    @sergiodpk 3 ปีที่แล้ว +2

    Impressive numbers man.....specs on the engine?

    • @tomorr152
      @tomorr152  3 ปีที่แล้ว +3

      Thx!
      383, Comp cams xfi 280, ported early afr 190cc heads, 1 3/4 long tube headers into 4" hawks exhaust with Vibrant muffler. SuperRam is ported base and runners, MiniRam is stock. 4" cai and Dynamic FI ECM.

  • @johnclifford1911
    @johnclifford1911 3 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    It would be interesting to see the HP/torque curves adjacent to each other. How much HP did the MiniRam have at 5900 RPM? In short, is the Super Ram a better street intake, while the Mini Ram is a better dragstrip intake?

    • @tomorr152
      @tomorr152  3 ปีที่แล้ว +4

      John I have them overlaid on graph paper and looking at the two power curves I think the SuperRam is the better choice for day to day driving, the power curves don't cross until around 5,400 rpm. The funny part is even with the SR making +30 tq & +25 hp at 4,000 rpm it's difficult to feel it while driving. With a 6spd and 3.92 gears both intakes drive good. If I didn't have the SR the MR would be fine and it pulls super hard on the top end. I would really like to test the Stealth Ram but I don't think it'll fit under a Firebird hood. I just finished doing additional port work to the base manifold hoping to gain a bit more HP & TQ above 5,500 and still have the higher midrange TQ. I'm able to do data logs and although close the MR wins every time. Unfortunately the Drag Strip I normally test at is closed and I didn't get to test the MR in 1/4. If you send me an email to tommyo383350@gmail.com I'll send you a picture of the dyno runs overlaid. Thanks for watching and the comment.

    • @johnclifford1911
      @johnclifford1911 3 ปีที่แล้ว

      @@tomorr152 I have a '91 Vette with the L98. The Super Ram is the way to go on these for a street engine and especially on a 383. The stock TPI manifold and runners start to choke above 4K and can't breathe well enough to continue to build power. The 383 gives you torque down low while the SR lets it breathe higher up. Yet the power is tractable and you're not just burning the tires everytime you give it some throttle. Building an engine that gives you 300 HP or a little more at the tires gives you a beautiful street rod. I'd consider the Mini Ram on a 400 or larger small block, to let the extra cubes breathe.

    • @tomorr152
      @tomorr152  3 ปีที่แล้ว +1

      @@johnclifford1911 I agree. The SR makes more HP/TQ up to around 5,400 rpm, after that it's all MR. The MR makes 437HP/387TQ @ 5,900 rpm, SR makes 415HP/378TQ @ 5,900 rpm.

    • @b.c4066
      @b.c4066 3 ปีที่แล้ว +1

      If you have 5-6 speed and good gears the miniram is great, or a 2500-2800 rpm stall converter, yes it's down on tq off idle, but if cammed right will accelerate so fast the loss of low rpm torque will actually make the car quicker. It's all in the combination. The intake is just a small piece of the puzzle

    • @tomorr152
      @tomorr152  3 ปีที่แล้ว +1

      @@b.c4066 I installed the T-56 close ratio conversion from Hawk's 3rd Gen and 3.92 gears. The MR doesn't feel like it's down on low RPM power at all, I can accelerate lightly in 6th gear at 1,600 RPM with no problem and it pulls hard to 6,500. Thx, for watching and commenting.

  • @jamesstrickland4019
    @jamesstrickland4019 2 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    I'll take the over hp the amount the tpis made over the accel is not worth it to me the tq is what you feel

    • @tomorr152
      @tomorr152  2 ปีที่แล้ว

      Just out of curiosity which manifold do you think looks better? I've had the SR for so long it's like my sentiment favorite. Surprisingly although the TQ and HP are down significantly in the mid-range it's not really felt. Thanks for watching and commenting. 👍

  • @b.c4066
    @b.c4066 3 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    What are the cam specs, valve train sounds healthy sewing machine style! 😁

    • @tomorr152
      @tomorr152  3 ปีที่แล้ว +1

      The XFI 280 with 1.6 roller rockers. The XFI lobe has very steep ramps and slams the valves closed. When I contacted TPiS and ask about using this cam they mentioned how noisy they are.

    • @b.c4066
      @b.c4066 3 ปีที่แล้ว

      @@tomorr152 is it just me, or does the miniram make valve train noise louder than the stock tpi intake?

    • @tomorr152
      @tomorr152  3 ปีที่แล้ว +1

      @@b.c4066 That I couldn't tell you. I haven't had the stock intake on since about 1992. I will say pretty much ever since I put the larger roller camshaft and 1.6:1 roller rocker arms the valvetrain has been louder.

  • @austinetc384
    @austinetc384 8 หลายเดือนก่อน

    What air intake did you run for the mini ram?

  • @ICONBADGTA
    @ICONBADGTA ปีที่แล้ว +1

    29HP for 22ftlb of torque..
    Stealth Ram it, and get the 29HP and not lose maybe 5ftlb of torque!
    Holley Stealth Ram is the (BEST EFI SBC INTAKE) ever made.. PERIOD!

    • @tomorr152
      @tomorr152  ปีที่แล้ว +1

      If the Stealth Ram would fit under my hood I would aready have one. I think it would work great, but I've measured and I don't want to cut my hood. Thx, for watching and commenting, sorry I just saw it. LOL

    • @ICONBADGTA
      @ICONBADGTA ปีที่แล้ว +1

      @@tomorr152 The new ones made today fit (EASILY) under factory hoods!
      They are cut on the bottom of the plenum .75"-1" more when it meets the base allowing the plenum to sit lower compared to the original versions made in 2000's!
      Mine fit perfectly on my 1991 Formula with factory hood and insulation! Didn't hit or rub anywhere!

    • @tomorr152
      @tomorr152  ปีที่แล้ว

      @@ICONBADGTA Interesting!! I'll have to look into it. What throttle body are you using? The Lingenfelter 1000 cfm that I have is a bit longer than the stock or other aftermarket TB's.

    • @ICONBADGTA
      @ICONBADGTA ปีที่แล้ว +1

      @@tomorr152 One of those PP ones, came with it. Aren't you Orr89rocz or whatever from 3rdgen? I was a founding member of that place before it went to shit...
      BADGTA was my name... They lied and banned me for nothing cause i told them they were acting ignorant and stupid on a post over muffler sizes and mounting, with their flowmaster hate when it wasn't even about it.
      Said i was a racist because i posted a meme considering how they was acting... Idiots... Nothing "RACIST" about it.. 😆
      Anyways, yeah, mine cleared no problems at all, they cut it where the base meets the plenum, a good 1/2-.75" worth... Guess a lot had the same clearance issues back in the day so Holley fixed it...
      I am running a speedmaster vortec base as they wasn't available through Holley, so i basically paid 500+ for a plenum lol.
      I got a video showing it, good piece, i smoother and gasket matched mine best i could with what i had at the time..
      Hit up tuned performance "BRIAN", he has stealthrams and TPI stuff out the ying yang he would sell ya cheap i bet!

    • @tomorr152
      @tomorr152  ปีที่แล้ว

      @@ICONBADGTA no that's not me, although I've chatted with him from time to time. I'm SuperRamFormula, at least I think that's what shows up. Lol. I haven't been on there much lately. Occasionally I'll get on there and see if anything good is for sale. I think I would have to change the throttle body for the Stealth Ram to fit. When I first installed the SR with the Lingenfelter TB I'm pretty sure it actually rubbed the hood liner and I know the HSR is much taller than the SR. I've got the MR back on it now and even though the Dyno say it's down on HP and TQ below 5,400 rpm it's hardly noticeable, it pulls past that rpm so fast. Thx for the info. I'm considering maybe selling the SR if I decide to do that I'll get the HSR for sure. The MR is a bit challenging tuning wise as the front cylinders tend to run quite a bit leaner than the back 4, thus the engine doesn't run as smooth as part throttle as the SR does.

  • @jarvislarson6864
    @jarvislarson6864 2 ปีที่แล้ว

    Which ran faster down the track? Which drove on street the smoothest?

    • @tomorr152
      @tomorr152  2 ปีที่แล้ว

      Unfortunately our local track Milan Dragstrip was closed last year and I didn't get a chance to run the MiniRam, but I have done several data logs where I measure time from say 35mph-115 and the MiniRam always wins. Now I've also done this on the dyno when comparing time from 3,300-6,250 rpm the SR takes 3.85 sec and the MR takes 3.98 sec. Of course the MR intakes loves RPM so I usually shift at 6,500 but I did take the SR intake that high, I need to shift at 5,500-6 to make it work best. As far as street driving the SR gives more surge from 3000-5000 rpm and the MR just wants to rev and feels great 4500 rpm-up. I think the MR is easier to tune and seems smoother RPM drops when shifting. I like them both, wish they had a dual runner intake to get the best of both. LOL
      Thanks for watching and commenting. Milan Dragstrip will be open soon once again and I will get the MR down there and see how it runs.

  • @jamesstrickland4019
    @jamesstrickland4019 3 ปีที่แล้ว

    What management system were you using

    • @tomorr152
      @tomorr152  3 ปีที่แล้ว +1

      I use Dynamic Fuel Injection ECM and TunerPro tuning program. I purchased a new ECM from Dynamic then it requires that you move maybe 5 wires in the connectors at the ECM and change from MAF to MAP sensor. I think it works pretty well, although I've have not had any experience with a FAST or Holley systems. What I liked about the Dynamic was I could use all the factory harness and ECM mounts in the original location, it has a USB that I connect to my laptop and I can watch what's happening while I'm driving and once you've learned how to make adjustments it's pretty easy. I can do data logs and it has an self learn mode that will help get it program where you want it. I run mine in open loop and have adjusted it to where I cruise around 13.5-14.5 AFR and WOT is between 12-13.2 AFR. Combined with the TunerPro software there are many adjustments that can be made. Like, cooling fan on/off temp and at what speed you might want the fans to shut off, timing curve, IAC steps, torque converter lock and unlock, fuel adjustments. I would suggest if that's something you're interested in to go to their website and read up on it. It took me awhile to get the hang of it. The first time I tried I got frustrated and put the stock system with computer chip back in, then I decided if I want more HP I needed to get rid of the MAF meter as my engine needed more air that's when I added the 4" CAI and I forced myself to make it work. It was worth it, between the 4" CAI and 4" exhaust I went from 11.9-11.68 and 3 mph faster. Hope this helped and thanks for watching.

    • @jamesstrickland4019
      @jamesstrickland4019 3 ปีที่แล้ว

      @@tomorr152 yea it does I will be in the market for something like that

    • @tomorr152
      @tomorr152  3 ปีที่แล้ว

      @@jamesstrickland4019 I think the Holley system is probably more advanced and easier to use. The main reason I went with the Dynamic FI is the fact I didn't have to take out the original harness. I was looking at the EFI connections systems that use the individual coils and a crank pickup and LS PCM, but I thought the cost was to high and thought I would have to have it professionally tuned which also isn't cheap.

  • @MRJ520
    @MRJ520 3 ปีที่แล้ว

    Is this a manual trans?

    • @tomorr152
      @tomorr152  3 ปีที่แล้ว

      Yes, I installed a T-56 conversion from Hawk's 3rd Gen last year. The car is a blast to drive.