I just gigged with my TM a couple weeks ago here at a socially distanced outdoor festival in Canada and the freedom of not worrying about it being bumped etc was amazing. No “VALVE” worry. It was mic’d and the attenuator was a revelation for working with front of house to nail tone + volume. Aside - for home recording, pre-production demos etc the DI is REALLY good. Fast and effortless - no fiddling with mic’s or iso-cabs. Rhett is right. This is a working musician’s gigging amp. Home run Fender.
Great that it’s working for you Dave. I guess working musician is a bit of a catch all - there are working musicians using everything - tubes, modelling, solid state, combos, heads, racks, mics, DIs etc etc. Whatever gets you connected and in the flow is what works we guess. Cheers!
Fantastic video Gents. But you’re In an isolated lab environment, and that’s OK, and valuable . But hearing the Tone Master series in live gig situations, the DR as well as the Twin, is indistinguishable in the mix. That, along with the direct out IR’s, attenuation, weight, and other reliability factors renders these apps a no-brainer for the gigging musician. Thank you for such great content.
@@michaelgoupil972- completely agree. I rely so heavily on my TM Deluxe and Twin for just that reason. In addition to all the other traits I rely on (XLR to front of house, weight and portability) at a live at gig nobody can tell the difference (myself included).
There is a firmware update for the Tonemaster. It makes it more pedalfriendly, less trebly and the reverb more manageable. I love it. The firmware update is reversible btw.
I recently purchased the blonde version with the Celestion and I think the results in a blind test might come out in favor of the Tone Master. It came with the firmware update.
Kudos for doing this comparison and it seems there really are people who like the sound of the Tonemaster. I think it’s good, but I expected it to be closer in it’s high eq and presence, it did the thing that I’m noticing again and again with digital things, but I can’t quite describe. A kind of rounding off or dulling of some of those high freqs.
Great episode, guys! As ever. One thing that IMHO should be considered in the equation is that A. The speaker used is different and that might introduce variables in the frequency response comparison between the two amps. B. The possibility of the TM to be upgraded via software which could bring in some modifications. I think the TM is a good amp and regardless of the differences from the DRRI, it always gives the feeling of a real tube amp when playing. Which I haven’t found yet with any other digital simulation. It’s subtle, but it’s there
I think these are different tools for different jobs and that's possibly the main point of both existing. I have a proper Deluxe Reverb but I am still tempted by a Tonemaster. It all depends on the gig for me. Blues gig, I want the full fat valve sound. The convenience of a light Deluxe Reverb-alike makes sense for a 9pc Soul gig where you only hear me on beats two an four. The loss of midrange is less important than having an amp I can carry up 3 flights of stairs in a theatre. Also... XLR out. You're instantly the soundman's best friend. I've not tried a Tonemaster... but on paper, I think the Tonemaster is probably better (for me).
Thx for the review. I have owned a Supersonic 22, a Rivera Era Deluxe Reverb, a Deluxe Reverb Reissue and a Tonemaster Deluxe. All in all I prefer the Tonemaster. In a live situation it sounds very close to the DRRI with the added benefits of attenuation, weight and IR's. Also It stay clean at 6.5 where as the DRRI begins to crunch at 5.
Very late to this party, but will add my thoughts on the Tonemaster for anyone still following this video. I am in the process of breaking in a Celestion Creamback Neo speaker in my Blackface version TMDR. The Creamback Neo is what comes in the tan version of the DRTM. I can say with confidence that it brings more midrange to the party, and is more pedal friendly than the Jensen Neo speaker. FWIW, I wonder if Dan and Mick tried the tan version if they would have different thoughts. The obvious advantages of lighter weight and the attenuator are significant to me. For a younger player who doesn't mind the weight, doesn't need the attenuator (and tube maintenance), the tube version could be perceived as a "better" amplifier. On stage or in a studio, I seriously wonder how many could really tell the difference. I'm not a tube snob, and my main amp is a Dr. Z MAZ 18 JR. That amp is a great amp for me, but I struggle with the 68 pound weight and limit it's use to recording and "important" gigs. Having owned a early 70's DR, the TMDR does for me everything I enjoyed about the 70's DR. I don't worry about the Tonemaster being a (very good) approximation of the "real thing" and feel it delivers all of what I enjoyed from my 70's DR. With more musicians migrating to digital amp modeling, that technology will continue to evolve, improve and become commonplace. I have witnessed a number of bands perform with amp modeling gear and achieve some of the best house mixes and controlled stage mixes I have ever heard.
Really nice guys! Fantastic and thorough test! Thank you so much for your work. One thing tough - you constantly had less reverb on the tone master compared to the tube one through the first half of the video. This does take away some of the grandness from the tone master, and makes it sound a little more boring on the clean and slight breakup. I think it would have come across to us listeners as allot more close if the reverb had been matched. The same was present in your other room tests. That said though... I still (only slightly) still like the tube one better. Especially from the pedal parts and outward. I am getting the Twin Reverb tone master Blonde in two or three days... Really look forward to testing it. Again thanks for a pristine, entertaining and informative video 😊👍
In my opinion, the battle between tube and modeling amps always boils down to where one intends to use it. I suppose that 80% of guitarists falls into "bedroom artist" basket. In that environment, tube amps are clearly a no-go as overdriven / sweetspot volume levels are out of reach for apartment setup. The selling point of digital / modeling is internal attenuaton without dimishing the sound quality. Tube amp with decent attenuator will definitely break your bank. The prices range between 600 to 1400. Most digital amps also come with headphone output, which is a must have in case you are living in an apartment building and/or with family members under one roof.
The ToneMaster is a fine sounding amp (while using its own speaker, of course). But putting it in the Deluxe Reverb shell is just marketing. It doesn't really sound like a DR. Not many would buy it without the "Deluxe Reverb" mask it's wearing, though. Oh, and the actual reverb effect sounded diapers in the TM. Scrap that.
It would be interesting to hear the amps in a real band mix. The difference in mid range actually might cut through a bit more on the Tone Master or suit a particular style / band. Perhaps rev 2.0 of the Tone Master could have a mid control or better yet fully parametric mid. 😉. Nice job as usual. I heard tones from both amps I liked. Position 2 on the strat through the tube amp is my favorite. Cheers 🍻
This helped me make my decision - get the real deal. I don't care how light the digital amp is, every comparison featuring the actual Deluxe Reverb had me going "what is that angelic sound??" and the Tonemaster was...ok, I guess.
Don’t get either one. Get the ‘68 custom deluxe! Reduced negative feedback, tube rectified, no bright cap and channel 1 is a bassman circuit. It sounds way better than either of these.
Wonderful demo guys. Guess the tech isn’t quite there yet. I suppose the light weight is a perk, but if you’re willing to sacrifice tone for that, what really is the point, at a time when we can just show up at most venues without an amp at all and just go straight to the PA via any number of great amp/cab sim pedals?
Some of that "Crisp Cleaness" of the Tonemaster could be attributed to the Neodymium lightweight speaker. I changed the Vintage 30 in my Mesa Rectoverb combo to a Celestion Neo to shave some gigging weight... have the Vint 30 in a 1x12 Recto Cab if I still want that sound. I did have to tweak the EQ and gain a bit after the change, but still pleasing, very usable, and the weight savings is very gig friendly. Might be interesting to hear a 4 way test with each amp into each cab... and see how much difference is in each piece of the puzzle (but the common cab test was close). There's a difference between what is the "best" tone for studio vs something reliable for gigging.
There is no best is the truth of it. Just what you like most. In 30 years of gigs - admittedly not so many in the last 7 or 8 - I think I’ve had one tube amp fail completely, a handful of mains fuses go and likewise rectifier tubes. I’d never gig with anything else... though I get it’s not for everyone! Mick here.
I waited 30years to finally jump in and buy a full-size valve amp, my choice was a Fender Deluxe Reverb 65 Reissue. Absolutely love it, sounds awesome clean and with pedals. I've heard new sounds out of all my guitars that I'd never heard out of my 50s Champ reissue or Marshall Valvestate. The OCD (v1.4) thru this sounds EPIC! Disclaimer: my music tastes pretty much stops at early 90s, so anything pre 1980 can be emulated with the FDR, and anything 80s and beyond is captured by the Marshall and it's big hair metal goodness 🤣
Reading between the lines here, is this a move to take TPS into a more digital realm, as that's where the guitar market is heading? No one wants to be an analog Luddite (right??), but can't someone find out how to make tube amps cheaper instead? We're at this awkward place where society is telling me to get a petrol/hybrid, & a digital modeller, when what I really want is a a V8 & a 50W amp. I don't want the guilt! As always, a great show guys.
Erm no. Dan and I remain firmly of the opinion that a valve amp is a valve amp, and short of some remarkable advancement in A/D conversion standards (at consumer bearable prices) it shall always be so. Doesn’t feel like that’s coming imminently, but for sure it will be here some day! I’ve seen it go found a number of times now - valve amps are dead! And then Lo and behold, there comes that fateful day where a kid stands in a room with a Marshall and feels something close to whatever god they thought they knew. We don’t really care where the guitar market is heading - that’s for somebody half our age and twice our intelligence. But for the last 60 years it’s been heading and returning to exactly the same place. Loud analogue noises that make people want to make babies. Quick qualification on the Luddites. They didn’t hate technology, they hated starving to death. We’re in no danger of that. Unlike the guitar market which is watching rock’n’roll lose to gaming, tech and modern pop music. Dan and I both do pretty techy things in our jobs. We’re not afraid of tech - especially Dan - but until the resultant sounds make us feel the way the traditional stuff does, it’s a giant waste of our time. Of which we don’t have a lot left. To quote a friend, ‘You’re dying asshole, so you’d better start living’. For us anyway, the living is too short for guitars and amps that are convenient, practical and good value for money. :0) Don’t get me started on electric cars. That’s marketing for the car industry and the investors therein. If you want to save the planet do two things. 1) Don’t have any car. 2) Stop having children! Mick here.
@@ThatPedalShow Thanks for the clarification Mick, I wasn't calling you or Dan, a Luddite, although there are some out there! And yes, they could've always weaved better patterns, it's quality not quantity after all. My brain (medically) works differently to a lot of others, so I couldn't reconcile what I know of digital amp's & your & Dan's preferences. Maybe I read too much into it?! It could've been simply, a good idea to look at the Tonemaster. (Of which I prefer the 100w Tone masters Fender made in the late 90's!). Always good to hear your side of it 👍
Just like my Twin Reverb I am biased, and I don’t really hear a noticeable difference, and I usually am able to pick these blind tests out. I wouldn’t shame anyone for buying the tone master. Though you can always buy a used Deluxe Reverb and then you can have fun with different tube setups.
0.50 secs in to this video and we had the answer...the DRRI is simply more MUSICAL and couldn't be 'beaten' Great video, I still watched to the end. I see the bigger retailers are now reducing the Tone Master price to below £700.....maybe after this demo lol.
Another consideration... How many tubes in a DRRI? 9? I remember my lead player telling me he had to shell out a small fortune every time he had to get his re-tubed. I think he said it was around a $400 hit! That means your $1500 amp becomes your $2000 amp the first time you inevitably need to replace the tubes! I know I'm comparing apples-to-oranges a bit here, but I know I have to re-tube my Marshall about once every one-to-two years. Granted, I run it pretty loud--if the power tubes aren't struggling, it wasn't worth switching it on. Most folks (I think?) don't push their Fenders that hard. But I have been GAS-ing for a Deluxe Reverb for quite some time now. Add an EQ pedal and I don't need to re-purchase the amp every few years replacing tubes...? For $500 less than the tube version...? It's a tough call for me. I am still flip-flopping. I really want the real-deal--but I am just going to attenuate it and send an IR to the mains anyway. (I have a very animated bass player--I can't count how many times my guitar dropped out because the mic had been kicked out-of-place.) And it's only 23 lbs...? Might it be not only Close Enough For Rock and Roll, but perhaps even better suited for my needs...? Oh, the anxiety!!!
Watched until you put that cab in to play. To make a short story long: the ’65 Deluxe Reverb is the real thing. It has more flesh and presence and the treble doesn't sound as brittle as with the Tone Master. The Tone Master sounds good with its own speaker but terrible with the extra cab (in my opinion). The ’65 Deluxe Reverb sounds good both ways. When pedals come in to play the ’65 Deluxe Reverb sounds way better to me. If I would buy an amp I would opt for the real thing. Otherwise I would stick with the Line6 ’65 Deluxe emulation (or whatever you have) and play it through an active fullrange box such as the Laney LFR-112 FRFR, which sounds pretty awesome. I think the only better ’65 Deluxe Reverb version would be the handwired one.
Need to a/b with the same speaker. The Neo-Jensen in the Tonemaster is compressed and somewhat brittle. They should use the exact same speaker to truly compare these, it's half the sound.
So, I'm rewatching this after going on a journey looking at Deluxe Reverbs myself. To me, the Tonemaster sounds as if it's got that polite studio processed sound already as if an engineer has had his way with trying to stick it in the mix. That may be great for people trying to reproduce recorded sounds on a live stage, but it loses that rawness that the real deal has. I've also tested out a few different versions of the '68 Custom Deluxe Reverb and I still think the '65 DRRI wins for my ears.
Conclusive proof that today’s experts, armed with the knowledge of 70 years of electric guitar tone, can’t produce something as good as a guy who didn’t know how to play guitar and didn’t really know what guitarists of the future would want.
Here's the thing. If you gig and often, the tube amp is gonna be a pain. If room size differs your DRRi is gonna be different due to the room. Then there's the weight. The TM will adapt to any room. Wanna hit that sweet spot but in a small room, the attenuation will be the difference. If you're a home player.... The weight won't be an issue. But you'll rarely get to hear the DRRi in it's true glory. Sure, it sits it the same spot but do you really get to enjoy the amp in its sweet spot? The TM, again with the attenuation you have all the world for the amp right there. If we nit-pick tone, the DRRi has what, a 5-10% advantage...Only if you can drive the amp properly. This is where for the working musician who has to carry his own gear and play different size venues should look hard our of the TM.
Really enjoy your shows guys! About the 65 Deluxe Tone Master, it seems on this video that you didn’t much bother to tweek the treble to sculpt a closer match to the brilliance/presence of the original tube amp... or am I mistaken? I have the Tone Master, and though i agree the midrange is noticeably different (a bit thicker and darker) I find that dialing-in more treble mostly “compensates” for what you referred to. Full disclosure: 90% of what I play is super clean tone (soul, funk, pop) and that thinker tone really does work very very nicely when properly sculpted for my Strat and Tele. Your thoughts?
Sure, could be the.case. But like adding an EQ pedal to a Marshall stack, it’s never going to make it a Bassman. Etc. Ie, the core differences are so huge that a little bit of tweaking around the edges doesn’t make up the difference. Which isn’t to say it isn’t a great amp - LOADS of people absolutely love it. Just not us. Cheers!
@@ThatPedalShow Indeed! Again congrats for the channel, very informative, useful and humorous. I enjoy it, well done! Salutations from Montreal, Canada
I know others have said similar things but would love to hear your impressions and comparison on the Blonde ToneMaster with the Celestion speaker instead of the Jensen that's in this one....
The 65 Deluxe has just something extra special... I could hear a little "ringing" off the notes. The Tone Master didn't have it. Tubes just can't be replicated. Why they are so much more expensive is another thing. Tubes are ancient technology, and should be much less expensive.
You should lift the Treble bypass cap on the Deluxe Reverb RI and set the Treble between six and 7. bass on 4. Makes it more useable with overdrive pedals that way.
Dan, sounds like you’ve been woodshedding!! Please do a follow up episode where you pair different overdrives with the DR. I’ve got a 1966 BFDR and I’m always looking for drive pedals that add mids. BTW, Snouse Blackbox does a great job!!
I imagine this is in the pipeline... But I'd love to see how the new JHS 3-Series Fuzz stacks up to Mick's Hendrix Fuzz Face. None of the demos I've found so far show how it cleans up with the guitar volume knob.
One reason I am tempted by the tone master (even though I think the tubes sound better) is that it seems like every time I turn around something new is broken on my blues deluxe, and it has just turned me off from tubes. Are tube amps known for being more maintenance intensive or am I just unlucky?
Valve amps need TLC from time to time. Having said that I have had a 68 Deluxe Reverb for about 5-years. It has been all over the place with me and done lots and lots of gigs. I have just had it checked over as the reverb recently stopped working properly. It needed two valves to be which was not very expensive. It now sounds as good as when it was brand new. I love the amp - I'm quite happy to pay for occasional servicing like this.
the deluxe reverb sounds amazing in this video! which mics, mic preamp and compressors you use to record these videos? Both of your playing is amazing and the tone is perfect!
Hello Jason. First off, no compressors here. We use Austrian Audio OC18 mics, or Sontronics Delta 2 ribbons. (Can't remember what in this video - the Sontronics are silver and the Austrian Audios black). They hit Meris 440 Preamps set flat, into our old analogue desk. We also have a stereo pair of AKGC414 in the room that hit the desk with a little bit of EQ to roll on some highs and scoop out some mud that the room generates. When we filmed this, the close mics would get a little bit of EQ shape from UAD Neve 1073 preamps (a little boost at 3.2k for bite, and some at 10k for air) and the room mics with a UAD Neve 1081 pre (similar). But for the last three months or so we now use no plug ins on our guitar tones - just a straight analogue signal chain with analogue EQ to do the same job. Cheers!
@@ThatPedalShow appreciate the detailed description! You channel is amazing! i ran into Mick’s demo of two rock studio pro 35 , which made me get one, but now i want a proper Fender black face amp, and Mick’s playing with the strat has helped me decide on a deluxe reverb
Thank you Mick and Dan, as usual for a great ind informative video. Hope you don't mind if I chime in with some considerations about the two speakers that are in these amps: A Jensen C12K in the '65, and a Jensen N12K in the TM. The key difference between them is the magnet: Ceramic for the C12K, Neodymium for the N12K, thus half the weight! Fender gave us the mission to develop a Neo version of the C12K, to sound and feel virtually indistinguishable from the original Ceramic speaker. Not an easy task, but eventually we did it: the two speakers have a nearly identical frequency response curve and dynamic response feel. Yes, the Neo, for its nature, behaves a little different from the Ceramic. It actually behaves closer to an AlNiCo than to a Ceramic, so we tweaked other parameters to assimilate the two to the max possible. If you would take one of the two amps and switch the two speakers back and forth, from the C12K to the N12K, you'll be have a pretty hard time to tell one from the other. So, finally, if you heard one amp more mid-focused and one brighter and more scooped... it's not the Neodymium speaker that makes that difference, and you proved it when plugging both into the WGS loaded cab. Hope this adds one small piece of information to the whole picture... In case you'd want more info... let me know! Cheers from Ignazio Vagnone / Jensen Speakers.
Ignazio - Thanks man, good to hear from you. We need to talk about our Super Reverb. :0) Gotta say, when we get around to doing the VCQ on this one I’ll be saying more positive things about Neo speakers than I ever have yet. Mick here. No problems with mic’ing this one!
Hey Jensen, I hate to break it to you but your Blackbird speaker is too good. I really want to put 4 in an old Fender 4x12, but bills and my other 4x12 keep telling me it's not time yet 😭
I have a couple of Tornado Stealth 65s in my JCM 800 2x12 combo to avoid the previous requirement for a crane to lift the thing, don't feel like I'm missing out any, except maybe a few herniated discs.
@@shawnmcvey7789 we're so pleased to hear how much you like the Blackbird! Take yr time, save for your bills, and it'll come the time for a mighty 4x12 with'em!
Absolutely love that you did this one and ESPECIALLY that you included the home volume scenario. No complaints that you don't do this routinely - I get it - but it's fantastic when you do, cos so applicable to how so many people spend so much of their guitar time. Thanks!
I currently have the Twin version of the Tonemaster. It is not the same as my Deluxe Reverb or some of my other tube amps, but as a reliable gigging, practice , and silent recording amp at night when the family is in bed, the Tonemaster is pretty amazing. I do think Fender should keep relentlessly pursuing a sound that is closer to the tube counterpart, especially in the midrange and headroom found in the real tube amps. Still, can you believe that digital amps sound this good and are so easy to record with? I did a little recording thing with someone the other night where we just decided to lay down ideas with the cab sim xlr out on the Tonemaster. It sounds sick. We are not starved for tone. Just spoiled with options.
@@LeviBulger there’s no reason to own one? Besides over doubling the price when you take into account the money you need to buy new valves? Ofc the £1200 amp is gonna sound better than the £600 pound amp 🤷♂️
I just got the Deluxe Tone Master 5 days ago, I’m super happy with it. I had a Silverface Twin Reverb years ago, and I loved it, but it was too loud and too heavy to be useful in any way. Obviously the Deluxe (either tube or digital) is not supposed to sound like the Twin, but this Tone Master is as close to the sound AND feel of that old LOUD Twin I’ve ever gotten since I traded it for a Les Paul. It handles all my overdrive pedals extremely well for any style I want to play. I am REALLY curious about the Twin TM, now, but I’m not going to be able to swing that for a while. I don’t see these Tone Masters replacing tube amps, but they are a very useful tool to add to the tool box. I’m loving mine.
You guys really are not the target audience for the Tonemaster. As you've shown over years of doing this show, you're about tone at all costs, regardless of inconvenience or cost. I think the Tonemaster still sounds really good, maybe just not as good as the '65. But the tradeoff is you get an amp that's less expensive initially, has lower maintenance costs over time, is much lighter, can overdrive at any volume, and can record or go to a PA direct. None of the benefits of the Tonemaster really matter to you guys so that's all out the window. I'll also say, I think the new blonde Tonemaster sounds much better than that one. Andertons did a good video comparing the two.
As someone who almost only uses an amp in my practice room, dialing down the watts is rather important. I found I couldn't get full tones out of my 15 watt amp, but at it's 5 watt settings it sounded much better. I would imagine that with a good EQ pedal, I could get good tone out of the Tonemaster and use it at home.
Yeah, there's never really much question as to which will sound better, vintage vs. modelling. It comes down to cost and other features. This is also the guy that will play a vintage tape echo over one of the fine new pedals, so we know what he is going to like better going in.
But the blonde has a celestion speaker and is not so charateristic Fender'ish😉It's maybe better for the overdriven sound. I still prefer the black one......no I still prefer the '65 Deluxe Reverb😉
Okay, so I’ll try to be as objective as I can. I’m a musician who does use digital amps and live amps for recording so I’m not really an amp snob. The Tonemaster is so much more practical, being: 1. Lighter 2. Having a DI out 3. Having control over how many watts you want 4. Sounding really good But The tube Deluxe reverb is my favorite clean amp, and nothing is going to come close to beating it. It just so much better. And it’s like comparing a 7-8/10 to a 10/10 If the tonemaster was like 350-400, maybe it would make me buy it, but 750$ brand new is too much. You can get a used deluxe reverb for that price. For the practical musician, the tone master will work, but it won’t beat a real one.
I haven’t had the opportunity to compare my Tone Master to the all valve 65 reissue but having already heard the comparisons from Anderson’s and others, to my ears, the mid range on the 65 reisue wasn’t as clean as the Tone master. However some may like is that way. Not for me though, as when I want it clean I want it clean, as I can always dirty up the signal, with a drive peddle, but you can’t go back the other way. It’s just what you like, that matters after all.
It does sound LIKE the tube version, just not Exactly like it. If it were more affordable it would probably sell much better but it’s rather overpriced for what it is IMO
I used to have a Mustang GT100. The novelty wore off about 6 months after I bought it. It always felt like I was playing a computer model of the real thing. Even though the '65 Twin & Bassman patches were really good, I still had something nagging at my brain that it was a computer model. A few months after I bought that amp I acquired a Katana 100. The Mustang is gone. Threw a bass speaker in it and gave it to my bass player. The Katana is staying put. Fast forward to the new Mustang GTX. I emailed a Fender rep and asked him specifically what had changed between the new amp and the GTX. Paraphrasing here: "Tweaked the models to be more efficient, refined this, adjusted that, blah blah." I was hoping they would have doubled the RAM and processor count. That would take away from the Tonemaster series if the GTX was too good. I want to like the Tonemaster but for the price you could spend $50 more and get the Roland Blues Cube Artist. It would allow you to at some point get the Robben Ford Dumble capsule. As much as I love the DR and the Fender cleans, I know I would be happier in the long run if I bought the BCA. Modeling is okay for some things like pedals, and I still make due with my Zoom G5n, but I'm done with modeling amps.
@@zerohourdrift For recording though? The Mustang GT was pretty handy. I was able to get some decent sounds recorded with it. In that regard they are pretty useful. For the money though I'll take a Blues Cube Artist.
The tonemaster sounds great, there's no doubt there and to the average pub/club punter probably the same. But on studio monitors with a direct A/B comparison, they're worlds apart. I would totally buy the tonemaster if I was gigging every night with no roadies but for a studio it'd be the real deal all day long
My thoughts exactly, but why the high price tag then? Poor gigging musicians deseve a tonemaster in the 500 range. Methinks some kind of greed involved here. Vox put out it's nighttrain, a 30W tube head and celestion speaker cab for 500. No excuse for pricing a modelling amp at 900.
I totally agree, but the price is an absolute joke. I bought the Mustang LT50 which is basically 1 thousand dollars cheaper here in Aus. It has a line out to run to the desk, and you can get some really awesome tones from it plus it has all the effects built in.
I believe they did choose the one with the tubes - the 65 Reissue. Listen to Dan at 42:24. They said they liked the one WITH the tubes better than the one without the tubes (ToneMaster) and that's the one they're going to buy.
Just a reminder about the Monday VCQ announcement at the end of this video ... there is no Monday "LIVE VCQ" on Monday October 5th (2020 for anyone reading in the 'future') ... given a following wind LIVE VCQ returns on Monday October 12th @ 5PM BST
To be honest, all the difference (quite clear) seems to be in the midrange, and that seems very very fixable (with EQ's , or as shown with the tube screamer). The overall sound and feel is way to close to be relevant, like many owners say, and like several blind tests showcase. Also, it seems that the firmware mods bring great improvements (bright cap, reverb ...). I won't sell my Vox and Fender tube amps, but I'm aware that a big part of the attachment is purely emotional and subjective. Thanks for taking the time to do such a comprehensive review.
I’ve got the tone master and I love it to be fair I’m not a gigging guitarist so the attenuator is a real bonus at home I tend to use it the second lowest one most of the time, I used to gig and had several tube amps but due to the venues I played I never got any of them cooking, so bizarrely for me the tone master feels like the most tubey amp I’ve played, its great to see what you guys thought though ;)
Lee Crofts I have both in the Twin version and dirty power at home. The Tonemaster Twin works better than the Katana and GTX did sound wise for me and my absolute distain for the hum from my tube version made the Tonemaster the perfect fit for the living room. There is a place for both says my hum hating brain. Still in clean power use the tube version rules.
@@ThatPedalShow that'd be a great show! Please include the matchless or vox in that one as people with that style amp tend to be the ones who go for 'transparent'/natural drives vs the Fender + mid boost
@@ptrisonic No. The chance of blowing a tube is very low. I only once in my life had a tube defect and it was the rectifier tube. And I have been playing for 20+ years. Tubes are also pretty cheap.
Its so funny to watch the pain in Dans face when he has to play a ss amp. The tone master is an amazing top level ss. I for one think I'm blessed that I enjoy both tubes and solid states. Truthfully in 2020, there is no better only different. Dan just happens to live in tube land. Its a nice town. Sometimes in tubeland your back hurts, sometimes all you hear is static, sometimes you gotta find an electronics professional to get you back up and going. But when your up and going, what a wonderful world. Lol, man that tone master and Micks strat, wowza. Love you Dan and Mick and Mr. Keely for your awesome pedal.
I'm not sure I can hear all the differences you hear. But even if they are different, the Tone Master for sure sounds like a proper Fender tube amp. Which is a pretty amazing achievement, even if it's not dead on for the exact model.
@@danieltravis5082 - Nice try, but no. Still too loud for my apartment, even on the 0.2 watt setting. I'll stick to my spark and dream about owning a house in the country with no neighbours. But Dave really gets amazing Greeny blues from it on the neck pick up. My favourite amp video this year.
@@LordBransty it is a good demo, I'm just flippin ya shit. I specifically overpay (rent wise) for a tiny house in a terrible area, instead of a nice apartment in a good neighborhood, so that I can make loud noises with tube amps. It (my loud tube amps) just blends in with the Quincineras, loud car subwoofer rumble, and "Despacito" on blast at all hours of the day. I absolutely empathize with your situation. A modeler is a good solution.
I love how thorough this is....to me they both sound great! I can understand the preference for the tube version, but when you look at all the advantages of the TM it made so much sense to me that I bought the blonde version....I’m over the moon about it!
I used to have a deluxe and I briefly had the tonemaster when they came out. I was very impressed with how far the modelling had come and I think Fender have created a great product but I couldn't make it work for me as much as I wanted to... Meanwhile... Princeton Reissue arrived yesterday and I am LOVING it! Cheers from Australia!
I hope they put out a tonemaster brownface princeton at a reasonable price! If they use the same processing power they used on these but aimed it toward nailing the overdrive and tremolo on the brown princeton, fender wouldn't be able to make enough of them to keep up with demand. Fender, don't drop the ball, dammitt!🤘😎🤘
The '65 Princeton is epic. My local shop has a hot rod deluxe, a blues junior, an AC 30 and several other great amps. The Princeton is probably the most played amp in the shop.
I've personally owned both tube versions of the Deluxe 65 and also the Twin. I've sold both and recently bought the Tone Masters because I preferred their clarity and richness of tone. Even after watching this demo I still prefer the Tone Master. Any mid voiced characteristics of the tube versions I could compensate with a EQ pedal if needed. And the Tone Master's all pine cabinets are incredibly lightweight! I would have loved to still own the all tube version to compare with the Tone Master but unfortunately I no longer have one to compare that way. But for me the Tone Master tone is more 3 dimensional. And if you compare a 65 Reissue with an original 65 or a new hardwired deluxe they will also sound different. Loved Dan and Mick's demo though. One of the best demos Ive seen so far.
You mentioned a great point about clarity. One if the things I noticed is the Tone Master seemed to allow the pedals to do their thing more than the reissue. I think that is because of the clarity you're talking about. If you're the type of guitar player who develops you're sound by pedals, than the Tone Master is the better choice.
@@krazyhandskyle That’s right. And even plugged directly into the amp I love how the Tonemaster responds. As I stated earlier I’ve owned both tube versions and quite frankly I sold them because I didn’t like them with pedals. And I found the tube versions to have a more sterile clean tone on their own . Go figure.
@@MrBallynally2I did and I owned both.Tone is subjective and I’ve owned both the Deluxe Reverb Reissue as well as the Twin reissue. I really like the Tone Master. I’ve since did the download of virtual removal of the bright cap and reverb improvement download and changed the speaker to a Celestion Neo Creamback and even like it better. That’s another thing I don’t like about the Reissue is the Jensen speaker. It just sounds a little too cold for my taste. Not knocking the reissue because it’s a great amp. But I settled for the lighter weight and tone of the Tone Master.
Love this episode! I bought the reissue and then a few months later the Tone Master came out. For a brief second I thought, "Did I just buy the wrong Fender amp?". I'm confident that the only actual advantage to the Tone Master is the weight. But you know I don't understand why that is such an advantage? If 64 lbs feels too heavy shouldn't we be thinking we need to get to the gym instead of I need a new lightweight amp? I'm 55 and I hope I can lift 64 lbs from my trunk (boot lol) to the stage for a long long time. The Deluxe Reissue is my go to amp and I have a Mesa Trem-O-Verb and a JCM 800. It just can cover almost any genre.
I have a hand-wired Deluxe Reverb Clone built by an amp tech friend (my favourite amp), and a Tone Master Twin that I bought for gigs so that I could keep my tube amps at home for recording and practicing. It has worked out very well - the TM Twin sounds great and is the perfect amp for any gig with the low weight, attenuator and speaker-emulatated direct out. I actually use it a lot for practicing as well because I can leave it on all day without worry of wearing out tubes and I turn the attentuator all the way down. At this point, the Tone Master is just another one of my amps with a few conveniences though it can't be used to heat my room :-) As for the comparison, both amps sound great to me in the video, though quite different.
To my ears At around the 25 26 minute mark I could really hear the clarity and cut of the real tube amp. The tone master sounded more broken up and lacked that nice assertive mid range.
This is probably my favourite TPS episode ever. I like it as much as much for the process as the content - watching these two gentlemen - vastly more experienced than I - investigate a comparison, not only gives me a bit but teaches me how to cast a net, as it were. Well done chaps.
Really useful video. While I agree that the Deluxe '65 sounds better, this video has actually convinced me to buy the Tone Master, simply because the majority of my playing will be in my apartment and the attenuator and direct out will be really useful. For rehearsals and gigs, it still sounds decent enough. I had been thinking of getting a Hot Rod Deluxe IV as it's a similar price to the Deluxe Reverb Tone Master, but having done some research it seems the Hot Rod would still be too loud for home use.
KC you can find a deluxe reverb reissue used for around $750-$1000. I see them all the time in local ads even at guitar center used. It’s so hilarious how fender pushes these garbage tone master amps over the tube version. The reissue is great reliable amp.
I’m not averse to modellers/cab sims, have a Two Notes Cab M+ on my board for “silent occasions”, but it’s clearly audible that the ones and zeros TM sounds flat (particularly with fuzz) and two dimensional compared to the sweet tube driven midrange and multidimensional reverb of the DRRI. Kudos to you chaps for giving the digital device a solid hearing. It is a different thing. 🤓
Whilst the Tonemaster sounds fine, with it's own very acceptable tone, I would really like to know which amps Fender used for modelling. It doesn't sound even that close to a Deluxe Reverb. I'm playing through the Logic X model and doing an A/B with the show - it sounds far, far closer...Strange. My main objection would be the price, seems very high for what it is - I would definitely spend a little more on the '68 custom reissue or buy a '65 used...don't care if its heavier. Just my thoughts. Interesting stuff. Modelling still can't get there...
The Lone Twangster It was modeled after some original. ‘65s so it could sound different than a reissue. They supposedly found the best examples of original 65s sound wise that they could.
Yes but i think it was because of the way the digital one was voiced- there is too much midrange for a blackface tone- not the usual complaints ( looking at you latency!) one hears about modeling amps
I can't imagine why i would want the tone master other than that's all that was available... or all I could afford. Why change something that isn't broke?
UPDATE: I’ve had the Tone Master Deluxe Reverb blonde for a good while now and it’s awesome. The attenuation is the perfect solution for my home needs and I still get the Deluxe feel. It’s not tube, I know, but I love the TM DR blonde!
I could see this happening. Once your ear gets rid of the ‘tube expectation’, you can appreciate the TM. I’ve experienced this with my Headrush. Once I let go of it sounding like my SuperSonic 22, I’ve dialed in some great tones that I’d gig with into a PA if needed. I feel like a lively compressor and an always-on boost would do wonders for the TM.
@@jeffrey.a.hanson Funny thing, I've never owned a tube amp, so I have no tube expectations. Boost is a great thing with the ToneMaster for sure, I just use a cheap Joyo Sweet Baby. I can take or leave a compressor, but that's a personal thing. You know, it sounds cliche (because most of them do) but this amp really does take pedals well. With no effects loop it's all through the front but it still sounds great. The Boss BD-2w sounds stellar through it, too.
Lying here, listening to these on a good set of headphones, the two sound like night and day to me. With no bias, I'm with the valves all the way. Listening to one of these by themselves, you'd be hard pushed to guess which is which I would think, but back to back it's a different story.
Ok, so I think we officially need t-shirts and/or mugs with: MICK IS ADJUSTING THE ATTENUATOR and MICK IS SWITCHING THE CAB SIMULATOR ON AND OFF written on them.
The one element that I've always loved on the actual fender tube amps is the reverb. I can never match the sound of an actual reverb tank with a pedal. You can really crank the reverb and somehow it sounds huge, but out of the way. It even comes across in this video, the reverb on the 65 Deluxe just sounds bigger and better
If you crank the reverb in a drri, you’re getting more gain as the recovery stage of the reverb will break up and compress, giving you a “bigger” feeling sound!
Being the tweaker I love being able to open up an amp and modify it. My DRRI is pretty incredibly sounding, removed the bright cap from the vibrato channel and changed the tone stack on the normal channel to have more of a bassman/jtm45 configuration. That plus a new speaker really brought the amp to life. I've played the tonemaster version and it's cool but I think it suffers from a lot of the same problems that plague the normal reissue. If you aren't a tweaker the tonemaster is great value and sounds pretty good, but after playing both the deluxe and the twin the twin wins IMO. Maybe it was just the day I tried them but I thought the twin with all the tonemaster trickery was way more interesting and useful. Great episode guys, and I'VE GOT TO SHIP THIS WORM BACK!
Same here. It was striking, really, compared to a lot of their other SS/tube comparisons. The Roland, the Quilter, the Boss and Bluguitar all fared way better compared to tube amps to my ears, and these also happen to be hybrid or near-entirely analog designs.
External speaker seemed to help the TM but they’re not the same by any stretch. TM did sound good but for me it would be the drri. Just love the way it sits in the band mix.
The perfect time for a pedal channel to use an A/B pedal but here we are plugging and unplugging lol
Pretty sure the gigrig will switch amps too lol
I just gigged with my TM a couple weeks ago here at a socially distanced outdoor festival in Canada and the freedom of not worrying about it being bumped etc was amazing. No “VALVE” worry. It was mic’d and the attenuator was a revelation for working with front of house to nail tone + volume. Aside - for home recording, pre-production demos etc the DI is REALLY good. Fast and effortless - no fiddling with mic’s or iso-cabs. Rhett is right. This is a working musician’s gigging amp. Home run Fender.
Great that it’s working for you Dave. I guess working musician is a bit of a catch all - there are working musicians using everything - tubes, modelling, solid state, combos, heads, racks, mics, DIs etc etc. Whatever gets you connected and in the flow is what works we guess. Cheers!
Fantastic video Gents. But you’re In an isolated lab environment, and that’s OK, and valuable . But hearing the Tone Master series in live gig situations, the DR as well as the Twin, is indistinguishable in the mix. That, along with the direct out IR’s, attenuation, weight, and other reliability factors renders these apps a no-brainer for the gigging musician. Thank you for such great content.
@@michaelgoupil972- completely agree. I rely so heavily on my TM Deluxe and Twin for just that reason. In addition to all the other traits I rely on (XLR to front of house, weight and portability) at a live at gig nobody can tell the difference (myself included).
Maybe you guys aren’t hearing this in the room, but there’s way more Reverb on the Tube Deluxe when listening on TH-cam
There is a firmware update for the Tonemaster. It makes it more pedalfriendly, less trebly and the reverb more manageable. I love it. The firmware update is reversible btw.
I recently purchased the blonde version with the Celestion and I think the results in a blind test might come out in favor of the Tone Master. It came with the firmware update.
Kudos for doing this comparison and it seems there really are people who like the sound of the Tonemaster. I think it’s good, but I expected it to be closer in it’s high eq and presence, it did the thing that I’m noticing again and again with digital things, but I can’t quite describe. A kind of rounding off or dulling of some of those high freqs.
Great episode, guys! As ever. One thing that IMHO should be considered in the equation is that
A. The speaker used is different and that might introduce variables in the frequency response comparison between the two amps.
B. The possibility of the TM to be upgraded via software which could bring in some modifications.
I think the TM is a good amp and regardless of the differences from the DRRI, it always gives the feeling of a real tube amp when playing. Which I haven’t found yet with any other digital simulation. It’s subtle, but it’s there
I think these are different tools for different jobs and that's possibly the main point of both existing. I have a proper Deluxe Reverb but I am still tempted by a Tonemaster. It all depends on the gig for me. Blues gig, I want the full fat valve sound.
The convenience of a light Deluxe Reverb-alike makes sense for a 9pc Soul gig where you only hear me on beats two an four. The loss of midrange is less important than having an amp I can carry up 3 flights of stairs in a theatre. Also... XLR out. You're instantly the soundman's best friend.
I've not tried a Tonemaster... but on paper, I think the Tonemaster is probably better (for me).
Thx for the review. I have owned a Supersonic 22, a Rivera Era Deluxe Reverb, a Deluxe Reverb Reissue and a Tonemaster Deluxe. All in all I prefer the Tonemaster. In a live situation it sounds very close to the DRRI with the added benefits of attenuation, weight and IR's. Also It stay clean at 6.5 where as the DRRI begins to crunch at 5.
Very late to this party, but will add my thoughts on the Tonemaster for anyone still following this video.
I am in the process of breaking in a Celestion Creamback Neo speaker in my Blackface version TMDR. The Creamback Neo is what comes in the tan version of the DRTM. I can say with confidence that it brings more midrange to the party, and is more pedal friendly than the Jensen Neo speaker. FWIW, I wonder if Dan and Mick tried the tan version if they would have different thoughts.
The obvious advantages of lighter weight and the attenuator are significant to me. For a younger player who doesn't mind the weight, doesn't need the attenuator (and tube maintenance), the tube version could be perceived as a "better" amplifier. On stage or in a studio, I seriously wonder how many could really tell the difference. I'm not a tube snob, and my main amp is a Dr. Z MAZ 18 JR. That amp is a great amp for me, but I struggle with the 68 pound weight and limit it's use to recording and "important" gigs. Having owned a early 70's DR, the TMDR does for me everything I enjoyed about the 70's DR. I don't worry about the Tonemaster being a (very good) approximation of the "real thing" and feel it delivers all of what I enjoyed from my 70's DR.
With more musicians migrating to digital amp modeling, that technology will continue to evolve, improve and become commonplace. I have witnessed a number of bands perform with amp modeling gear and achieve some of the best house mixes and controlled stage mixes I have ever heard.
The Deluxe Reverb is kicking the tone-masters ass. I’m sure the tone master sounds great when not comparing it to the Deluxe reverb
Does the tree make a sound when it falls in the forest and nobody is there to listen?
@@ThatPedalShow common man 😂 don't get all Nietzsche about it
Fender recently released the blonde versions of the tone master. I believe its supposed to sound like a popular modded deluxe
Ha! Keep tweaking.... it’ll sound like valves eventually (rolls wheelchair in 2053... “yes with this firmware update we’re finally there! “
Titter.
Yea I wonder how much difference the clipping of the bright cap on the Vibrato Channel made on the new blonde versions
You can download those firmware updates from fender
Great video as always. I’d really like to see a comparison between the 65 Deluxe Reverb Reissue and the newer handwired Fender Custom 64 Deluxe Reverb
Yeah good shout. Me too. I’m kinda in love with our humble Deluxe, Mick here. Would be interested to know how different the HW is.
Really nice guys! Fantastic and thorough test!
Thank you so much for your work.
One thing tough - you constantly had less reverb on the tone master compared to the tube one through the first half of the video. This does take away some of the grandness from the tone master, and makes it sound a little more boring on the clean and slight breakup. I think it would have come across to us listeners as allot more close if the reverb had been matched. The same was present in your other room tests.
That said though... I still (only slightly) still like the tube one better. Especially from the pedal parts and outward.
I am getting the Twin Reverb tone master Blonde in two or three days... Really look forward to testing it.
Again thanks for a pristine, entertaining and informative video 😊👍
In my opinion, the battle between tube and modeling amps always boils down to where one intends to use it. I suppose that 80% of guitarists falls into "bedroom artist" basket. In that environment, tube amps are clearly a no-go as overdriven / sweetspot volume levels are out of reach for apartment setup. The selling point of digital / modeling is internal attenuaton without dimishing the sound quality. Tube amp with decent attenuator will definitely break your bank. The prices range between 600 to 1400. Most digital amps also come with headphone output, which is a must have in case you are living in an apartment building and/or with family members under one roof.
There’s a great deal of logic in this. Mick here.
I really appreciate this review. It is easy to hear the differences even on a tablet.
The ToneMaster is a fine sounding amp (while using its own speaker, of course). But putting it in the Deluxe Reverb shell is just marketing. It doesn't really sound like a DR. Not many would buy it without the "Deluxe Reverb" mask it's wearing, though.
Oh, and the actual reverb effect sounded diapers in the TM. Scrap that.
It would be interesting to hear the amps in a real band mix. The difference in mid range actually might cut through a bit more on the Tone Master or suit a particular style / band. Perhaps rev 2.0 of the Tone Master could have a mid control or better yet fully parametric mid. 😉. Nice job as usual. I heard tones from both amps I liked. Position 2 on the strat through the tube amp is my favorite. Cheers 🍻
I love tubes, I love analog, I love you guys. But I'm all digital any more (Axe Fx, Eventide, Strymon) in my home studio and I'm not looking back.
Good for you Tom! If it works for you, it works!
This helped me make my decision - get the real deal. I don't care how light the digital amp is, every comparison featuring the actual Deluxe Reverb had me going "what is that angelic sound??" and the Tonemaster was...ok, I guess.
Don’t get either one. Get the ‘68 custom deluxe! Reduced negative feedback, tube rectified, no bright cap and channel 1 is a bassman circuit. It sounds way better than either of these.
Oh yeah, and it’s cheaper! One of Fender’s most underrated amps. Bonnamasa agrees!
Wonderful demo guys. Guess the tech isn’t quite there yet. I suppose the light weight is a perk, but if you’re willing to sacrifice tone for that, what really is the point, at a time when we can just show up at most venues without an amp at all and just go straight to the PA via any number of great amp/cab sim pedals?
Some of that "Crisp Cleaness" of the Tonemaster could be attributed to the Neodymium lightweight speaker. I changed the Vintage 30 in my Mesa Rectoverb combo to a Celestion Neo to shave some gigging weight... have the Vint 30 in a 1x12 Recto Cab if I still want that sound. I did have to tweak the EQ and gain a bit after the change, but still pleasing, very usable, and the weight savings is very gig friendly. Might be interesting to hear a 4 way test with each amp into each cab... and see how much difference is in each piece of the puzzle (but the common cab test was close). There's a difference between what is the "best" tone for studio vs something reliable for gigging.
There is no best is the truth of it. Just what you like most. In 30 years of gigs - admittedly not so many in the last 7 or 8 - I think I’ve had one tube amp fail completely, a handful of mains fuses go and likewise rectifier tubes. I’d never gig with anything else... though I get it’s not for everyone! Mick here.
deluxe all the way. tubes still are KING.
I waited 30years to finally jump in and buy a full-size valve amp, my choice was a Fender Deluxe Reverb 65 Reissue. Absolutely love it, sounds awesome clean and with pedals. I've heard new sounds out of all my guitars that I'd never heard out of my 50s Champ reissue or Marshall Valvestate.
The OCD (v1.4) thru this sounds EPIC!
Disclaimer: my music tastes pretty much stops at early 90s, so anything pre 1980 can be emulated with the FDR, and anything 80s and beyond is captured by the Marshall and it's big hair metal goodness 🤣
Reading between the lines here, is this a move to take TPS into a more digital realm, as that's where the guitar market is heading? No one wants to be an analog Luddite (right??), but can't someone find out how to make tube amps cheaper instead?
We're at this awkward place where society is telling me to get a petrol/hybrid, & a digital modeller, when what I really want is a a V8 & a 50W amp. I don't want the guilt! As always, a great show guys.
Erm no. Dan and I remain firmly of the opinion that a valve amp is a valve amp, and short of some remarkable advancement in A/D conversion standards (at consumer bearable prices) it shall always be so. Doesn’t feel like that’s coming imminently, but for sure it will be here some day!
I’ve seen it go found a number of times now - valve amps are dead! And then Lo and behold, there comes that fateful day where a kid stands in a room with a Marshall and feels something close to whatever god they thought they knew. We don’t really care where the guitar market is heading - that’s for somebody half our age and twice our intelligence. But for the last 60 years it’s been heading and returning to exactly the same place. Loud analogue noises that make people want to make babies.
Quick qualification on the Luddites. They didn’t hate technology, they hated starving to death. We’re in no danger of that. Unlike the guitar market which is watching rock’n’roll lose to gaming, tech and modern pop music.
Dan and I both do pretty techy things in our jobs. We’re not afraid of tech - especially Dan - but until the resultant sounds make us feel the way the traditional stuff does, it’s a giant waste of our time. Of which we don’t have a lot left.
To quote a friend, ‘You’re dying asshole, so you’d better start living’. For us anyway, the living is too short for guitars and amps that are convenient, practical and good value for money. :0)
Don’t get me started on electric cars. That’s marketing for the car industry and the investors therein. If you want to save the planet do two things. 1) Don’t have any car. 2) Stop having children! Mick here.
@@ThatPedalShow Thanks for the clarification Mick, I wasn't calling you or Dan, a Luddite, although there are some out there! And yes, they could've always weaved better patterns, it's quality not quantity after all.
My brain (medically) works differently to a lot of others, so I couldn't reconcile what I know of digital amp's & your & Dan's preferences. Maybe I read too much into it?! It could've been simply, a good idea to look at the Tonemaster. (Of which I prefer the 100w Tone masters Fender made in the late 90's!). Always good to hear your side of it 👍
Just like my Twin Reverb I am biased, and I don’t really hear a noticeable difference, and I usually am able to pick these blind tests out. I wouldn’t shame anyone for buying the tone master. Though you can always buy a used Deluxe Reverb and then you can have fun with different tube setups.
0.50 secs in to this video and we had the answer...the DRRI is simply more MUSICAL and couldn't be 'beaten' Great video, I still watched to the end. I see the bigger retailers are now reducing the Tone Master price to below £700.....maybe after this demo lol.
Another consideration... How many tubes in a DRRI? 9? I remember my lead player telling me he had to shell out a small fortune every time he had to get his re-tubed. I think he said it was around a $400 hit! That means your $1500 amp becomes your $2000 amp the first time you inevitably need to replace the tubes! I know I'm comparing apples-to-oranges a bit here, but I know I have to re-tube my Marshall about once every one-to-two years. Granted, I run it pretty loud--if the power tubes aren't struggling, it wasn't worth switching it on. Most folks (I think?) don't push their Fenders that hard.
But I have been GAS-ing for a Deluxe Reverb for quite some time now. Add an EQ pedal and I don't need to re-purchase the amp every few years replacing tubes...? For $500 less than the tube version...? It's a tough call for me. I am still flip-flopping. I really want the real-deal--but I am just going to attenuate it and send an IR to the mains anyway. (I have a very animated bass player--I can't count how many times my guitar dropped out because the mic had been kicked out-of-place.) And it's only 23 lbs...? Might it be not only Close Enough For Rock and Roll, but perhaps even better suited for my needs...? Oh, the anxiety!!!
I really enjoyed the pedals you used in this episode especially since many of them are or have been on my board.
Watched until you put that cab in to play. To make a short story long: the ’65 Deluxe Reverb is the real thing. It has more flesh and presence and the treble doesn't sound as brittle as with the Tone Master. The Tone Master sounds good with its own speaker but terrible with the extra cab (in my opinion). The ’65 Deluxe Reverb sounds good both ways. When pedals come in to play the ’65 Deluxe Reverb sounds way better to me. If I would buy an amp I would opt for the real thing. Otherwise I would stick with the Line6 ’65 Deluxe emulation (or whatever you have) and play it through an active fullrange box such as the Laney LFR-112 FRFR, which sounds pretty awesome. I think the only better ’65 Deluxe Reverb version would be the handwired one.
Need to a/b with the same speaker. The Neo-Jensen in the Tonemaster is compressed and somewhat brittle. They should use the exact same speaker to truly compare these, it's half the sound.
Keep watching.
@@ThatPedalShow Thanks, I found the comparison at 32:10 using the same speaker for both amps. Much appreciated and I agree, neo-dym speakers blow. ;)
So, I'm rewatching this after going on a journey looking at Deluxe Reverbs myself. To me, the Tonemaster sounds as if it's got that polite studio processed sound already as if an engineer has had his way with trying to stick it in the mix. That may be great for people trying to reproduce recorded sounds on a live stage, but it loses that rawness that the real deal has.
I've also tested out a few different versions of the '68 Custom Deluxe Reverb and I still think the '65 DRRI wins for my ears.
Conclusive proof that today’s experts, armed with the knowledge of 70 years of electric guitar tone, can’t produce something as good as a guy who didn’t know how to play guitar and didn’t really know what guitarists of the future would want.
Yep. No arguments here.
Here's the thing. If you gig and often, the tube amp is gonna be a pain. If room size differs your DRRi is gonna be different due to the room. Then there's the weight. The TM will adapt to any room. Wanna hit that sweet spot but in a small room, the attenuation will be the difference. If you're a home player.... The weight won't be an issue. But you'll rarely get to hear the DRRi in it's true glory. Sure, it sits it the same spot but do you really get to enjoy the amp in its sweet spot? The TM, again with the attenuation you have all the world for the amp right there. If we nit-pick tone, the DRRi has what, a 5-10% advantage...Only if you can drive the amp properly. This is where for the working musician who has to carry his own gear and play different size venues should look hard our of the TM.
Really enjoy your shows guys! About the 65 Deluxe Tone Master, it seems on this video that you didn’t much bother to tweek the treble to sculpt a closer match to the brilliance/presence of the original tube amp... or am I mistaken? I have the Tone Master, and though i agree the midrange is noticeably different (a bit thicker and darker) I find that dialing-in more treble mostly “compensates” for what you referred to. Full disclosure: 90% of what I play is super clean tone (soul, funk, pop) and that thinker tone really does work very very nicely when properly sculpted for my Strat and Tele. Your thoughts?
Sure, could be the.case. But like adding an EQ pedal to a Marshall stack, it’s never going to make it a Bassman. Etc. Ie, the core differences are so huge that a little bit of tweaking around the edges doesn’t make up the difference. Which isn’t to say it isn’t a great amp - LOADS of people absolutely love it. Just not us. Cheers!
@@ThatPedalShow Indeed! Again congrats for the channel, very informative, useful and humorous. I enjoy it, well done! Salutations from Montreal, Canada
That goldtop is sooooo beautiful man
I know others have said similar things but would love to hear your impressions and comparison on the Blonde ToneMaster with the Celestion speaker instead of the Jensen that's in this one....
The 65 Deluxe has just something extra special... I could hear a little "ringing" off the notes. The Tone Master didn't have it. Tubes just can't be replicated. Why they are so much more expensive is another thing. Tubes are ancient technology, and should be much less expensive.
Hair splitting fun! Invest in an A,B box lads😁
You should lift the Treble bypass cap on the Deluxe Reverb RI and set the Treble between six and 7. bass on 4. Makes it more useable with overdrive pedals that way.
Did you look at the 68 Custom Deluxe at all? Would be interested to hear your opinion on the difference between that and the 65.
49:06 Amen brother!
Dan, sounds like you’ve been woodshedding!! Please do a follow up episode where you pair different overdrives with the DR. I’ve got a 1966 BFDR and I’m always looking for drive pedals that add mids. BTW, Snouse Blackbox does a great job!!
I've got that Bender pedal, still trying to dial it into something I like.
How does a rangemaster sound on the tone master? Has anyone tried?
So funny how Dan keeps saying “the other amplifier”
I imagine this is in the pipeline... But I'd love to see how the new JHS 3-Series Fuzz stacks up to Mick's Hendrix Fuzz Face. None of the demos I've found so far show how it cleans up with the guitar volume knob.
I say this show rocks.
One reason I am tempted by the tone master (even though I think the tubes sound better) is that it seems like every time I turn around something new is broken on my blues deluxe, and it has just turned me off from tubes. Are tube amps known for being more maintenance intensive or am I just unlucky?
Valve amps need TLC from time to time. Having said that I have had a 68 Deluxe Reverb for about 5-years. It has been all over the place with me and done lots and lots of gigs. I have just had it checked over as the reverb recently stopped working properly. It needed two valves to be which was not very expensive. It now sounds as good as when it was brand new. I love the amp - I'm quite happy to pay for occasional servicing like this.
If only there was a way to switch between amps without unplugging- tempted by a tone master but 😅I know i can’t play an amp without a valve or two.
the deluxe reverb sounds amazing in this video! which mics, mic preamp and compressors you use to record these videos? Both of your playing is amazing and the tone is perfect!
Hello Jason. First off, no compressors here. We use Austrian Audio OC18 mics, or Sontronics Delta 2 ribbons. (Can't remember what in this video - the Sontronics are silver and the Austrian Audios black). They hit Meris 440 Preamps set flat, into our old analogue desk. We also have a stereo pair of AKGC414 in the room that hit the desk with a little bit of EQ to roll on some highs and scoop out some mud that the room generates. When we filmed this, the close mics would get a little bit of EQ shape from UAD Neve 1073 preamps (a little boost at 3.2k for bite, and some at 10k for air) and the room mics with a UAD Neve 1081 pre (similar). But for the last three months or so we now use no plug ins on our guitar tones - just a straight analogue signal chain with analogue EQ to do the same job. Cheers!
@@ThatPedalShow appreciate the detailed description! You channel is amazing! i ran into Mick’s demo of two rock studio pro 35 , which made me get one, but now i want a proper Fender black face amp, and Mick’s playing with the strat has helped me decide on a deluxe reverb
Let's see which one we're going to buy ?
I've more chance of biting my arse than you two buying a digital amp !!!!
@H Kay its a saying that I've stolen from my brother
😂
Your surname for sure makes it even harder
@@tomz1989 hahahaha
I bit my arse once.But then,I was on mushrooms at the time...................
Forget the amps. I want the Fender coffee table !
I noticed that too, really cool thing.
There is one on Reverb . Fender Coffee Table . 200 $
Cool table, but it looks like a broken toe to me.
@@JS-nf1sn I see your point! I wouldn't have thought of that UNTIL I broke my toe.
@@JS-nf1sn Agreed, I would end up with that table leg wedged between my toes!
Thank you Mick and Dan, as usual for a great ind informative video.
Hope you don't mind if I chime in with some considerations about the two speakers that are in these amps: A Jensen C12K in the '65, and a Jensen N12K in the TM. The key difference between them is the magnet: Ceramic for the C12K, Neodymium for the N12K, thus half the weight!
Fender gave us the mission to develop a Neo version of the C12K, to sound and feel virtually indistinguishable from the original Ceramic speaker.
Not an easy task, but eventually we did it: the two speakers have a nearly identical frequency response curve and dynamic response feel.
Yes, the Neo, for its nature, behaves a little different from the Ceramic. It actually behaves closer to an AlNiCo than to a Ceramic, so we tweaked other parameters to assimilate the two to the max possible.
If you would take one of the two amps and switch the two speakers back and forth, from the C12K to the N12K, you'll be have a pretty hard time to tell one from the other.
So, finally, if you heard one amp more mid-focused and one brighter and more scooped... it's not the Neodymium speaker that makes that difference, and you proved it when plugging both into the WGS loaded cab.
Hope this adds one small piece of information to the whole picture... In case you'd want more info... let me know!
Cheers from Ignazio Vagnone / Jensen Speakers.
Ignazio - Thanks man, good to hear from you. We need to talk about our Super Reverb. :0)
Gotta say, when we get around to doing the VCQ on this one I’ll be saying more positive things about Neo speakers than I ever have yet. Mick here. No problems with mic’ing this one!
Hey Jensen, I hate to break it to you but your Blackbird speaker is too good.
I really want to put 4 in an old Fender 4x12, but bills and my other 4x12 keep telling me it's not time yet 😭
I have a couple of Tornado Stealth 65s in my JCM 800 2x12 combo to avoid the previous requirement for a crane to lift the thing, don't feel like I'm missing out any, except maybe a few herniated discs.
@@jwlademann I've found if you go nuts helping your drummer they have to help you with your amp🤣
@@shawnmcvey7789 we're so pleased to hear how much you like the Blackbird! Take yr time, save for your bills, and it'll come the time for a mighty 4x12 with'em!
Absolutely love that you did this one and ESPECIALLY that you included the home volume scenario. No complaints that you don't do this routinely - I get it - but it's fantastic when you do, cos so applicable to how so many people spend so much of their guitar time. Thanks!
I currently have the Twin version of the Tonemaster. It is not the same as my Deluxe Reverb or some of my other tube amps, but as a reliable gigging, practice , and silent recording amp at night when the family is in bed, the Tonemaster is pretty amazing. I do think Fender should keep relentlessly pursuing a sound that is closer to the tube counterpart, especially in the midrange and headroom found in the real tube amps. Still, can you believe that digital amps sound this good and are so easy to record with? I did a little recording thing with someone the other night where we just decided to lay down ideas with the cab sim xlr out on the Tonemaster. It sounds sick. We are not starved for tone. Just spoiled with options.
True Words
Jealous - the Twin is the one I want.
Does it compare to roland and the tweed tone of the blues cube?
@@LeviBulger there’s no reason to own one? Besides over doubling the price when you take into account the money you need to buy new valves?
Ofc the £1200 amp is gonna sound better than the £600 pound amp 🤷♂️
I just got the Deluxe Tone Master 5 days ago, I’m super happy with it. I had a Silverface Twin Reverb years ago, and I loved it, but it was too loud and too heavy to be useful in any way. Obviously the Deluxe (either tube or digital) is not supposed to sound like the Twin, but this Tone Master is as close to the sound AND feel of that old LOUD Twin I’ve ever gotten since I traded it for a Les Paul. It handles all my overdrive pedals extremely well for any style I want to play. I am REALLY curious about the Twin TM, now, but I’m not going to be able to swing that for a while.
I don’t see these Tone Masters replacing tube amps, but they are a very useful tool to add to the tool box. I’m loving mine.
I always test drive cars with a blindfold on. It's the only way you get a fair comparison.
Hahahahah
Hooah!
@@LorSTApunk07 Al? That you?
Stevie Wonder test driving a Cameo vs. a Tesla?
@@davidhovey5152 If he can play keyboards, bass, drums and sing all on the same track, then I'm pretty sure he can drive! :D
You guys really are not the target audience for the Tonemaster. As you've shown over years of doing this show, you're about tone at all costs, regardless of inconvenience or cost. I think the Tonemaster still sounds really good, maybe just not as good as the '65. But the tradeoff is you get an amp that's less expensive initially, has lower maintenance costs over time, is much lighter, can overdrive at any volume, and can record or go to a PA direct. None of the benefits of the Tonemaster really matter to you guys so that's all out the window.
I'll also say, I think the new blonde Tonemaster sounds much better than that one. Andertons did a good video comparing the two.
Spot on...
As someone who almost only uses an amp in my practice room, dialing down the watts is rather important. I found I couldn't get full tones out of my 15 watt amp, but at it's 5 watt settings it sounded much better. I would imagine that with a good EQ pedal, I could get good tone out of the Tonemaster and use it at home.
Well said. I love these guys, but I knew before starting the video that it wasn't for them hah
Yeah, there's never really much question as to which will sound better, vintage vs. modelling. It comes down to cost and other features. This is also the guy that will play a vintage tape echo over one of the fine new pedals, so we know what he is going to like better going in.
But the blonde has a celestion speaker and is not so charateristic Fender'ish😉It's maybe better for the overdriven sound. I still prefer the black one......no I still prefer the '65 Deluxe Reverb😉
Okay, so I’ll try to be as objective as I can. I’m a musician who does use digital amps and live amps for recording so I’m not really an amp snob. The Tonemaster is so much more practical, being:
1. Lighter
2. Having a DI out
3. Having control over how many watts you want
4. Sounding really good
But
The tube Deluxe reverb is my favorite clean amp, and nothing is going to come close to beating it. It just so much better. And it’s like comparing a 7-8/10 to a 10/10
If the tonemaster was like 350-400, maybe it would make me buy it, but 750$ brand new is too much. You can get a used deluxe reverb for that price. For the practical musician, the tone master will work, but it won’t beat a real one.
Well put!
Same.
where the hell can you find a 750$ used deluxe reverb???
@@Brucaleeffo eBay
@@Brucaleeffo plus shipping and tax
i’m 35 seconds in and I already know they’re gonna pick the tubes
I hadn't even clicked 'play' and I knew that.
I haven’t had the opportunity to compare my Tone Master to the all valve 65 reissue but having already heard the comparisons from Anderson’s and others, to my ears, the mid range on the 65 reisue wasn’t as clean as the Tone master. However some may like is that way. Not for me though, as when I want it clean I want it clean, as I can always dirty up the signal, with a drive peddle, but you can’t go back the other way. It’s just what you like, that matters after all.
It does sound LIKE the tube version, just not Exactly like it. If it were more affordable it would probably sell much better but it’s rather overpriced for what it is IMO
I used to have a Mustang GT100. The novelty wore off about 6 months after I bought it. It always felt like I was playing a computer model of the real thing. Even though the '65 Twin & Bassman patches were really good, I still had something nagging at my brain that it was a computer model. A few months after I bought that amp I acquired a Katana 100. The Mustang is gone. Threw a bass speaker in it and gave it to my bass player. The Katana is staying put.
Fast forward to the new Mustang GTX. I emailed a Fender rep and asked him specifically what had changed between the new amp and the GTX. Paraphrasing here: "Tweaked the models to be more efficient, refined this, adjusted that, blah blah." I was hoping they would have doubled the RAM and processor count. That would take away from the Tonemaster series if the GTX was too good.
I want to like the Tonemaster but for the price you could spend $50 more and get the Roland Blues Cube Artist. It would allow you to at some point get the Robben Ford Dumble capsule. As much as I love the DR and the Fender cleans, I know I would be happier in the long run if I bought the BCA.
Modeling is okay for some things like pedals, and I still make due with my Zoom G5n, but I'm done with modeling amps.
Checkpoint COVID I completely agree. They’ve got their place and uses, but at that price point it’s absurd IMO
@@zerohourdrift For recording though? The Mustang GT was pretty handy. I was able to get some decent sounds recorded with it. In that regard they are pretty useful. For the money though I'll take a Blues Cube Artist.
The tonemaster sounds great, there's no doubt there and to the average pub/club punter probably the same. But on studio monitors with a direct A/B comparison, they're worlds apart. I would totally buy the tonemaster if I was gigging every night with no roadies but for a studio it'd be the real deal all day long
100% right :)
This is the way
My thoughts exactly, but why the high price tag then? Poor gigging musicians deseve a tonemaster in the 500 range. Methinks some kind of greed involved here. Vox put out it's nighttrain, a 30W tube head and celestion speaker cab for 500. No excuse for pricing a modelling amp at 900.
I'm not a native english speaker so my english are limited. Can someone explain to me what he's trying to say in a simple word. Thanks.
I totally agree, but the price is an absolute joke. I bought the Mustang LT50 which is basically 1 thousand dollars cheaper here in Aus. It has a line out to run to the desk, and you can get some really awesome tones from it plus it has all the effects built in.
They'll probably just buy the one with tubes in the end lol
yep haha
If it’s for the studio as in it won’t be moved as much then get the tube one
I believe they did choose the one with the tubes - the 65 Reissue. Listen to Dan at 42:24. They said they liked the one WITH the tubes better than the one without the tubes (ToneMaster) and that's the one they're going to buy.
Well itll last longer.
Mick: “do your own blindfold test”
Dan: “but don’t drive that way”
Mick: “well...”
*sudden edit for legal purposes*
🤣
Well spotted!
Just a reminder about the Monday VCQ announcement at the end of this video ... there is no Monday "LIVE VCQ" on Monday October 5th (2020 for anyone reading in the 'future') ... given a following wind LIVE VCQ returns on Monday October 12th @ 5PM BST
Thank you BV! Good job you’re awake!
Thanks BV!
To be honest, all the difference (quite clear) seems to be in the midrange, and that seems very very fixable (with EQ's , or as shown with the tube screamer). The overall sound and feel is way to close to be relevant, like many owners say, and like several blind tests showcase. Also, it seems that the firmware mods bring great improvements (bright cap, reverb ...). I won't sell my Vox and Fender tube amps, but I'm aware that a big part of the attachment is purely emotional and subjective. Thanks for taking the time to do such a comprehensive review.
I’ve got the tone master and I love it to be fair I’m not a gigging guitarist so the attenuator is a real bonus at home I tend to use it the second lowest one most of the time, I used to gig and had several tube amps but due to the venues I played I never got any of them cooking, so bizarrely for me the tone master feels like the most tubey amp I’ve played, its great to see what you guys thought though ;)
Lee Crofts I have both in the Twin version and dirty power at home. The Tonemaster Twin works better than the Katana and GTX did sound wise for me and my absolute distain for the hum from my tube version made the Tonemaster the perfect fit for the living room. There is a place for both says my hum hating brain. Still in clean power use the tube version rules.
Yes, I think that the guys would agree with you - in fact I think Mick actually says so towards the end. P
Fender Deluxe Reverb Reissue - my favourite amp! 🎛❤️ Sounding great guys!
How about a “mid-hump” vs “organic/neutral” overdrive episode with the 65 DRRI? Tube Screamer, Klon and KOT vs Lightspeed, Timmy and Morning Glory! 🎸
Yes! This is bang up our alley!
@@ThatPedalShow that'd be a great show! Please include the matchless or vox in that one as people with that style amp tend to be the ones who go for 'transparent'/natural drives vs the Fender + mid boost
Snouse Blackbox and some sort of Mostortion like the Karma please!!
Don't forget the Nobles ODR-1!
Ts and bluesbreaker is all a deluxe reverb needs. And delay of course and several other things ... but let’s not get into that
Thanks very much. Finally- a high audio quality comparison of these amps where the presenter isn't trying to sell the Tonemaster!
Welcome to That Pedal Show! :0)
Tube version all the way. They have priced the digital version way too high.
Because otherwise they'd not sell any reissues😊
Yes too much. Might as well pay little bit more and get the tube version. I’m sure you can get a decent solid state amp that sounds Good for far less.
Well, you'll certainly save on tubes over the years (or months)... P
@@ptrisonic No. The chance of blowing a tube is very low. I only once in my life had a tube defect and it was the rectifier tube. And I have been playing for 20+ years.
Tubes are also pretty cheap.
Its so funny to watch the pain in Dans face when he has to play a ss amp. The tone master is an amazing top level ss. I for one think I'm blessed that I enjoy both tubes and solid states. Truthfully in 2020, there is no better only different. Dan just happens to live in tube land. Its a nice town. Sometimes in tubeland your back hurts, sometimes all you hear is static, sometimes you gotta find an electronics professional to get you back up and going. But when your up and going, what a wonderful world. Lol, man that tone master and Micks strat, wowza. Love you Dan and Mick and Mr. Keely for your awesome pedal.
😂
You can easily fix a deluxe tern after warranty. Good luck fixing a ss amp after warranty lol.
tube snobs are idiots, and I own tube amps.
I'm not sure I can hear all the differences you hear. But even if they are different, the Tone Master for sure sounds like a proper Fender tube amp. Which is a pretty amazing achievement, even if it's not dead on for the exact model.
Dave Simpson does a great Tonemaster unboxing review. He gets fantastic tones out of it, and prefers it to the real thing.
Daves like an excited puppy with everything though. Hard to gauge something with him(plus his ridiculous skills 🎸)
Spotted the tone master owner
@@danieltravis5082 - Nice try, but no. Still too loud for my apartment, even on the 0.2 watt setting. I'll stick to my spark and dream about owning a house in the country with no neighbours. But Dave really gets amazing Greeny blues from it on the neck pick up. My favourite amp video this year.
@@LordBransty it is a good demo, I'm just flippin ya shit. I specifically overpay (rent wise) for a tiny house in a terrible area, instead of a nice apartment in a good neighborhood, so that I can make loud noises with tube amps.
It (my loud tube amps) just blends in with the Quincineras, loud car subwoofer rumble, and "Despacito" on blast at all hours of the day.
I absolutely empathize with your situation. A modeler is a good solution.
I love how thorough this is....to me they both sound great! I can understand the preference for the tube version, but when you look at all the advantages of the TM it made so much sense to me that I bought the blonde version....I’m over the moon about it!
I used to have a deluxe and I briefly had the tonemaster when they came out. I was very impressed with how far the modelling had come and I think Fender have created a great product but I couldn't make it work for me as much as I wanted to... Meanwhile... Princeton Reissue arrived yesterday and I am LOVING it! Cheers from Australia!
I hope they put out a tonemaster brownface princeton at a reasonable price! If they use the same processing power they used on these but aimed it toward nailing the overdrive and tremolo on the brown princeton, fender wouldn't be able to make enough of them to keep up with demand. Fender, don't drop the ball, dammitt!🤘😎🤘
JakeFJ Princeton - Awesome 😎
Alan Ohagan or go a bit further in same direction = Morgan PR12 :-)
Did you get the ‘65 or ‘68 Custom Princeton? I just picked up the LE version of the ‘68 Custom with a Celestion Greenback. It is fantastic.
The '65 Princeton is epic. My local shop has a hot rod deluxe, a blues junior, an AC 30 and several other great amps. The Princeton is probably the most played amp in the shop.
I've personally owned both tube versions of the Deluxe 65 and also the Twin. I've sold both and recently bought the Tone Masters because I preferred their clarity and richness of tone. Even after watching this demo I still prefer the Tone Master. Any mid voiced characteristics of the tube versions I could compensate with a EQ pedal if needed. And the Tone Master's all pine cabinets are incredibly lightweight!
I would have loved to still own the all tube version to compare with the Tone Master but unfortunately I no longer have one to compare that way. But for me the Tone Master tone is more 3 dimensional. And if you compare a 65 Reissue with an original 65 or a new hardwired deluxe they will also sound different.
Loved Dan and Mick's demo though. One of the best demos Ive seen so far.
You mentioned a great point about clarity. One if the things I noticed is the Tone Master seemed to allow the pedals to do their thing more than the reissue. I think that is because of the clarity you're talking about. If you're the type of guitar player who develops you're sound by pedals, than the Tone Master is the better choice.
@@krazyhandskyle That’s right. And even plugged directly into the amp I love how the Tonemaster responds. As I stated earlier I’ve owned both tube versions and quite frankly I sold them because I didn’t like them with pedals. And I found the tube versions to have a more sterile clean tone on their own . Go figure.
That sounds like self justification after the fact. There is No way anybody will pick the Tonemaster over the DR.
@@MrBallynally2I did and I owned both.Tone is subjective and I’ve owned both the Deluxe Reverb Reissue as well as the Twin reissue. I really like the Tone Master. I’ve since did the download of virtual removal of the bright cap and reverb improvement download and changed the speaker to a Celestion Neo Creamback and even like it better. That’s another thing I don’t like about the Reissue is the Jensen speaker. It just sounds a little too cold for my taste. Not knocking the reissue because it’s a great amp. But I settled for the lighter weight and tone of the Tone Master.
Love this episode! I bought the reissue and then a few months later the Tone Master came out. For a brief second I thought, "Did I just buy the wrong Fender amp?". I'm confident that the only actual advantage to the Tone Master is the weight. But you know I don't understand why that is such an advantage? If 64 lbs feels too heavy shouldn't we be thinking we need to get to the gym instead of I need a new lightweight amp? I'm 55 and I hope I can lift 64 lbs from my trunk (boot lol) to the stage for a long long time. The Deluxe Reissue is my go to amp and I have a Mesa Trem-O-Verb and a JCM 800. It just can cover almost any genre.
Amen, heavier amps for stronger people with more fight in them. The tone is worth it in my opinion
I have a hand-wired Deluxe Reverb Clone built by an amp tech friend (my favourite amp), and a Tone Master Twin that I bought for gigs so that I could keep my tube amps at home for recording and practicing. It has worked out very well - the TM Twin sounds great and is the perfect amp for any gig with the low weight, attenuator and speaker-emulatated direct out. I actually use it a lot for practicing as well because I can leave it on all day without worry of wearing out tubes and I turn the attentuator all the way down. At this point, the Tone Master is just another one of my amps with a few conveniences though it can't be used to heat my room :-) As for the comparison, both amps sound great to me in the video, though quite different.
To my ears At around the 25 26 minute mark I could really hear the clarity and cut of the real tube amp. The tone master sounded more broken up and lacked that nice assertive mid range.
This is probably my favourite TPS episode ever. I like it as much as much for the process as the content - watching these two gentlemen - vastly more experienced than I - investigate a comparison, not only gives me a bit but teaches me how to cast a net, as it were. Well done chaps.
The pursuit of the perfect tone and gear is half the fun.
Really useful video. While I agree that the Deluxe '65 sounds better, this video has actually convinced me to buy the Tone Master, simply because the majority of my playing will be in my apartment and the attenuator and direct out will be really useful. For rehearsals and gigs, it still sounds decent enough. I had been thinking of getting a Hot Rod Deluxe IV as it's a similar price to the Deluxe Reverb Tone Master, but having done some research it seems the Hot Rod would still be too loud for home use.
Dan's disappointment with the Tonemaster was restrained but unmistakable.
@KC if it were priced correctly (like $500) I would jump on it immediately
KC you can find a deluxe reverb reissue used for around $750-$1000. I see them all the time in local ads even at guitar center used. It’s so hilarious how fender pushes these garbage tone master amps over the tube version. The reissue is great reliable amp.
KC
The BJr tweed limited edition is probably one of the best amps I’ve played under 20w.
The difference in facial expressions between amps is hilarious
Conversely his surprise at how good the off the shelf, decidedly unsexy, modern, printed circuit board Deluxe Reverb sounded spoke volumes too.
I’m not averse to modellers/cab sims, have a Two Notes Cab M+ on my board for “silent occasions”, but it’s clearly audible that the ones and zeros TM sounds flat (particularly with fuzz) and two dimensional compared to the sweet tube driven midrange and multidimensional reverb of the DRRI. Kudos to you chaps for giving the digital device a solid hearing. It is a different thing. 🤓
Whilst the Tonemaster sounds fine, with it's own very acceptable tone, I would really like to know which amps Fender used for modelling. It doesn't sound even that close to a Deluxe Reverb. I'm playing through the Logic X model and doing an A/B with the show - it sounds far, far closer...Strange. My main objection would be the price, seems very high for what it is - I would definitely spend a little more on the '68 custom reissue or buy a '65 used...don't care if its heavier. Just my thoughts. Interesting stuff. Modelling still can't get there...
The Lone Twangster It was modeled after some original. ‘65s so it could sound different than a reissue. They supposedly found the best examples of original 65s sound wise that they could.
Could also be explained by electronic component tolerances and variances
You buy the tube one of course.
Yes but i think it was because of the way the digital one was voiced- there is too much midrange for a blackface tone- not the usual complaints ( looking at you latency!) one hears about modeling amps
In other news, the Pope is Catholic.
“Oh blinkin heck”- Dan realizing he has super strength
I can't imagine why i would want the tone master other than that's all that was available... or all I could afford. Why change something that isn't broke?
UPDATE: I’ve had the Tone Master Deluxe Reverb blonde for a good while now and it’s awesome. The attenuation is the perfect solution for my home needs and I still get the Deluxe feel. It’s not tube, I know, but I love the TM DR blonde!
I could see this happening. Once your ear gets rid of the ‘tube expectation’, you can appreciate the TM. I’ve experienced this with my Headrush. Once I let go of it sounding like my SuperSonic 22, I’ve dialed in some great tones that I’d gig with into a PA if needed.
I feel like a lively compressor and an always-on boost would do wonders for the TM.
@@jeffrey.a.hanson Funny thing, I've never owned a tube amp, so I have no tube expectations. Boost is a great thing with the ToneMaster for sure, I just use a cheap Joyo Sweet Baby. I can take or leave a compressor, but that's a personal thing. You know, it sounds cliche (because most of them do) but this amp really does take pedals well. With no effects loop it's all through the front but it still sounds great. The Boss BD-2w sounds stellar through it, too.
Lying here, listening to these on a good set of headphones, the two sound like night and day to me. With no bias, I'm with the valves all the way. Listening to one of these by themselves, you'd be hard pushed to guess which is which I would think, but back to back it's a different story.
I was considering one of the Tonemaster DRs for the reduced weight, will stick with my SF Deluxe Reverbs now!
Really love the glance in Dan´s eyes when he's pointing out that he fell in love with the amplifier ;) That's how you know that it's true !
Ok, so I think we officially need t-shirts and/or mugs with:
MICK IS ADJUSTING THE ATTENUATOR
and
MICK IS SWITCHING THE CAB SIMULATOR ON AND OFF
written on them.
Hahahahah
The one element that I've always loved on the actual fender tube amps is the reverb. I can never match the sound of an actual reverb tank with a pedal. You can really crank the reverb and somehow it sounds huge, but out of the way. It even comes across in this video, the reverb on the 65 Deluxe just sounds bigger and better
Check out a pedal called the Element. It's a spring reverb tank that attaches to a pedal and can be mounted on your board!
If you crank the reverb in a drri, you’re getting more gain as the recovery stage of the reverb will break up and compress, giving you a “bigger” feeling sound!
Yes, to me the Reverb is big part of the Deluxe sound. Without reverb it sounds kinda dull .
30:12 ,,How to be absolutely underwhelmed" by That Pedal Show.
Great comparison. 9:42 is it for me. The ToneMaster doesn't sound bad at all, but compared to the '65 it's harsh and lacking some warmth/body.
Exactly this
The reverb tank difference was enough for me, it was like night and day.
Being the tweaker I love being able to open up an amp and modify it. My DRRI is pretty incredibly sounding, removed the bright cap from the vibrato channel and changed the tone stack on the normal channel to have more of a bassman/jtm45 configuration. That plus a new speaker really brought the amp to life. I've played the tonemaster version and it's cool but I think it suffers from a lot of the same problems that plague the normal reissue. If you aren't a tweaker the tonemaster is great value and sounds pretty good, but after playing both the deluxe and the twin the twin wins IMO. Maybe it was just the day I tried them but I thought the twin with all the tonemaster trickery was way more interesting and useful. Great episode guys, and I'VE GOT TO SHIP THIS WORM BACK!
I hope you find Jesus and rehab helps you get better
@@slash2jimi Say what now?
I put my head down and worked on some stuff while listening, and every time a tone made me pop my head up it was the the 65 deluxe 🤷♂️
Thank you. Hopefully that saves us having to do the awful bloody blindfold test. You’ve done it for us!
Spot on with my experience
Same here. It was striking, really, compared to a lot of their other SS/tube comparisons. The Roland, the Quilter, the Boss and Bluguitar all fared way better compared to tube amps to my ears, and these also happen to be hybrid or near-entirely analog designs.
External speaker seemed to help the TM but they’re not the same by any stretch. TM did sound good but for me it would be the drri. Just love the way it sits in the band mix.
This one surprised me - they were further apart than I expected. Best sound you guys ever got out of solid state was the JC40...that sounded epic.
In hindsight, (once Mick A/B’d the clean sound) it’s not just the mids that are out of whack. It’s night and day.
When you say” so different “ I think you guys are way off. They are a lot closer then they are farther away
It’s a matter of perspective. The moon is pretty close compared with Pluto. But it’s miles away from Sainsbury’s. To us they’re way off. Cheers!
@@ThatPedalShow you should to watch John B from premier guitar he does the comparison with original 63 deluxe and it’s surprisingly close
@@ThatPedalShow 😂😂😂😂
@@ThatPedalShow still chuckling to this reply. Slow clap