Thank you Mick and Dan, as usual for a great ind informative video. Hope you don't mind if I chime in with some considerations about the two speakers that are in these amps: A Jensen C12K in the '65, and a Jensen N12K in the TM. The key difference between them is the magnet: Ceramic for the C12K, Neodymium for the N12K, thus half the weight! Fender gave us the mission to develop a Neo version of the C12K, to sound and feel virtually indistinguishable from the original Ceramic speaker. Not an easy task, but eventually we did it: the two speakers have a nearly identical frequency response curve and dynamic response feel. Yes, the Neo, for its nature, behaves a little different from the Ceramic. It actually behaves closer to an AlNiCo than to a Ceramic, so we tweaked other parameters to assimilate the two to the max possible. If you would take one of the two amps and switch the two speakers back and forth, from the C12K to the N12K, you'll be have a pretty hard time to tell one from the other. So, finally, if you heard one amp more mid-focused and one brighter and more scooped... it's not the Neodymium speaker that makes that difference, and you proved it when plugging both into the WGS loaded cab. Hope this adds one small piece of information to the whole picture... In case you'd want more info... let me know! Cheers from Ignazio Vagnone / Jensen Speakers.
Ignazio - Thanks man, good to hear from you. We need to talk about our Super Reverb. :0) Gotta say, when we get around to doing the VCQ on this one I’ll be saying more positive things about Neo speakers than I ever have yet. Mick here. No problems with mic’ing this one!
Hey Jensen, I hate to break it to you but your Blackbird speaker is too good. I really want to put 4 in an old Fender 4x12, but bills and my other 4x12 keep telling me it's not time yet 😭
I have a couple of Tornado Stealth 65s in my JCM 800 2x12 combo to avoid the previous requirement for a crane to lift the thing, don't feel like I'm missing out any, except maybe a few herniated discs.
@@shawnmcvey7789 we're so pleased to hear how much you like the Blackbird! Take yr time, save for your bills, and it'll come the time for a mighty 4x12 with'em!
Okay, so I’ll try to be as objective as I can. I’m a musician who does use digital amps and live amps for recording so I’m not really an amp snob. The Tonemaster is so much more practical, being: 1. Lighter 2. Having a DI out 3. Having control over how many watts you want 4. Sounding really good But The tube Deluxe reverb is my favorite clean amp, and nothing is going to come close to beating it. It just so much better. And it’s like comparing a 7-8/10 to a 10/10 If the tonemaster was like 350-400, maybe it would make me buy it, but 750$ brand new is too much. You can get a used deluxe reverb for that price. For the practical musician, the tone master will work, but it won’t beat a real one.
I have the Tonemaster, it is the most wonderful gigging amp. I run an always on Super Sweet first, then a few effects. Pushing air at stage volume with a band, there is no player who would not be thrilled with the tone, Fender did an amazing job with the amp. And the lightweight + reliability is unreal. For a working man’s rig, I am really happy, and I will not go back to tubes. I love the original Deluxe also, but the Tonemaster is the better amp for me.
@Luke I'm not saying because they're Digital they wont last! Im saying they are built to a price and are even cheaper than Fenders PCB amps and they dont last very well.
Absolutely love that you did this one and ESPECIALLY that you included the home volume scenario. No complaints that you don't do this routinely - I get it - but it's fantastic when you do, cos so applicable to how so many people spend so much of their guitar time. Thanks!
I currently have the Twin version of the Tonemaster. It is not the same as my Deluxe Reverb or some of my other tube amps, but as a reliable gigging, practice , and silent recording amp at night when the family is in bed, the Tonemaster is pretty amazing. I do think Fender should keep relentlessly pursuing a sound that is closer to the tube counterpart, especially in the midrange and headroom found in the real tube amps. Still, can you believe that digital amps sound this good and are so easy to record with? I did a little recording thing with someone the other night where we just decided to lay down ideas with the cab sim xlr out on the Tonemaster. It sounds sick. We are not starved for tone. Just spoiled with options.
@@LeviBulger there’s no reason to own one? Besides over doubling the price when you take into account the money you need to buy new valves? Ofc the £1200 amp is gonna sound better than the £600 pound amp 🤷♂️
I just got the Deluxe Tone Master 5 days ago, I’m super happy with it. I had a Silverface Twin Reverb years ago, and I loved it, but it was too loud and too heavy to be useful in any way. Obviously the Deluxe (either tube or digital) is not supposed to sound like the Twin, but this Tone Master is as close to the sound AND feel of that old LOUD Twin I’ve ever gotten since I traded it for a Les Paul. It handles all my overdrive pedals extremely well for any style I want to play. I am REALLY curious about the Twin TM, now, but I’m not going to be able to swing that for a while. I don’t see these Tone Masters replacing tube amps, but they are a very useful tool to add to the tool box. I’m loving mine.
This is a real classic. The enthusiasm you bring to putting these amps through their paces and really trying to give the tone master a fair shake is infectious and entertaining. Well done.
This is probably my favourite TPS episode ever. I like it as much as much for the process as the content - watching these two gentlemen - vastly more experienced than I - investigate a comparison, not only gives me a bit but teaches me how to cast a net, as it were. Well done chaps.
The tonemaster sounds great, there's no doubt there and to the average pub/club punter probably the same. But on studio monitors with a direct A/B comparison, they're worlds apart. I would totally buy the tonemaster if I was gigging every night with no roadies but for a studio it'd be the real deal all day long
My thoughts exactly, but why the high price tag then? Poor gigging musicians deseve a tonemaster in the 500 range. Methinks some kind of greed involved here. Vox put out it's nighttrain, a 30W tube head and celestion speaker cab for 500. No excuse for pricing a modelling amp at 900.
I totally agree, but the price is an absolute joke. I bought the Mustang LT50 which is basically 1 thousand dollars cheaper here in Aus. It has a line out to run to the desk, and you can get some really awesome tones from it plus it has all the effects built in.
I had a hard time with these 2 choices about 6 months ago. I finally decided on the tonemaster because of the surprising great tone and other perks. No regrets at all. It is a fantastic amp!
@Luke lol. the classic argument. I played a hot rod deluxe tube amp for years and the tonemaster is not even in the same ballpark. Dare I say... it's better! Alot better. Congratulations on your purchase. It's an amazing amp.👍
@Luke absolutely. It's the perfect amp in my opinion. They definitely nailed it man. One thing you should know is that the speaker needs to be broken in. When I first bought it I thought it sounded good but after a few months of playing through it everyday it started to sound great! I haven't seen one person on the net complain about the amp yet. This amp is the future in my opinion. So much more convenient and less things to worry about. I just hope it can survive long time use. I don't see a whole lot that can go wrong with them though. I bought mine like a year ago and I still get excited every time I play it. I'm actually still as obsessed with it as I was the day I bought it. The hype is well deserved. Everybody seems to love em.
I have a hand-wired Deluxe Reverb Clone built by an amp tech friend (my favourite amp), and a Tone Master Twin that I bought for gigs so that I could keep my tube amps at home for recording and practicing. It has worked out very well - the TM Twin sounds great and is the perfect amp for any gig with the low weight, attenuator and speaker-emulatated direct out. I actually use it a lot for practicing as well because I can leave it on all day without worry of wearing out tubes and I turn the attentuator all the way down. At this point, the Tone Master is just another one of my amps with a few conveniences though it can't be used to heat my room :-) As for the comparison, both amps sound great to me in the video, though quite different.
I'm not sure I can hear all the differences you hear. But even if they are different, the Tone Master for sure sounds like a proper Fender tube amp. Which is a pretty amazing achievement, even if it's not dead on for the exact model.
You guys really are not the target audience for the Tonemaster. As you've shown over years of doing this show, you're about tone at all costs, regardless of inconvenience or cost. I think the Tonemaster still sounds really good, maybe just not as good as the '65. But the tradeoff is you get an amp that's less expensive initially, has lower maintenance costs over time, is much lighter, can overdrive at any volume, and can record or go to a PA direct. None of the benefits of the Tonemaster really matter to you guys so that's all out the window. I'll also say, I think the new blonde Tonemaster sounds much better than that one. Andertons did a good video comparing the two.
As someone who almost only uses an amp in my practice room, dialing down the watts is rather important. I found I couldn't get full tones out of my 15 watt amp, but at it's 5 watt settings it sounded much better. I would imagine that with a good EQ pedal, I could get good tone out of the Tonemaster and use it at home.
Yeah, there's never really much question as to which will sound better, vintage vs. modelling. It comes down to cost and other features. This is also the guy that will play a vintage tape echo over one of the fine new pedals, so we know what he is going to like better going in.
But the blonde has a celestion speaker and is not so charateristic Fender'ish😉It's maybe better for the overdriven sound. I still prefer the black one......no I still prefer the '65 Deluxe Reverb😉
Wow the most telling and decisive look at these amps I've heard yet. I want to want one of these tone masters, but the anemic nature of it next to the actual tube amp is clearly evident here. Thank you!
I suggest you try them in person. They range from being kinda different from the tube amp and 100% identical. And it's really just because every single tonemaster amp sounds identical, but every tube amp sounds quite different. I own the Tonemaster and love it. I also try comparing with the tube counterparts anytime I see them next to each other at a store. The tonemaster always sounds like mine and the tube version always sounds different. Most of the tube ones, especially if they are used, sound a bit less pristine. Like they are noisier, have more mid range, and the attack is softer. Which is something that can be preferred. But some of them have a sharper attack and are more scooped and sound very clean, just like the tonemaster. Clearly the latter was Fender's preference when deciding which Tube deluxe to base the tonemaster on. But I love the tonemaster. I play with my amp cranked to 10 at midnight in my apartment without bothering neighbors because of the attenuator. Getting the tone I want at any volume is so great. The fact that it weighs about 20 pounds is amazing. And Recording direct with it is a dream. If I need to record an Idea quickly, I just throw in an XLR cable and that's it. Don't need to set up a mic or worry about my recording volume.
@@TheDilligan Thanks man. I agree these things have come a LOOOOOOOOONG way, and that almost every Twin I have ever plugged into sounds very different. I did go play one and it did sound great, in isolation. The only way to truly tell for me would be in a full band full volume situation to see how it sits with the rest of the band. I also kinda thought it sounded very much like the Quilter amps that I'd played that sounded great on their own but then when put next to an actual tube you could really pick out the false extra low end and over sparkley highs. If only they'd built in a more hp/lp eq like the tube versions just do naturally. One of these days!
Hi, Brendan! Updating the firmware to 'Blonde' (no speaker swap!) made a HUGE difference. See my post above (12/2021). I was initially quite disappointed but now the TM has become my go to amp as it sounds really good and is light as *%ll. Also fun to see peoples reactions when I show there's no tubes. Cheers!
I just gigged with my TM a couple weeks ago here at a socially distanced outdoor festival in Canada and the freedom of not worrying about it being bumped etc was amazing. No “VALVE” worry. It was mic’d and the attenuator was a revelation for working with front of house to nail tone + volume. Aside - for home recording, pre-production demos etc the DI is REALLY good. Fast and effortless - no fiddling with mic’s or iso-cabs. Rhett is right. This is a working musician’s gigging amp. Home run Fender.
Great that it’s working for you Dave. I guess working musician is a bit of a catch all - there are working musicians using everything - tubes, modelling, solid state, combos, heads, racks, mics, DIs etc etc. Whatever gets you connected and in the flow is what works we guess. Cheers!
Fantastic video Gents. But you’re In an isolated lab environment, and that’s OK, and valuable . But hearing the Tone Master series in live gig situations, the DR as well as the Twin, is indistinguishable in the mix. That, along with the direct out IR’s, attenuation, weight, and other reliability factors renders these apps a no-brainer for the gigging musician. Thank you for such great content.
@@michaelgoupil972- completely agree. I rely so heavily on my TM Deluxe and Twin for just that reason. In addition to all the other traits I rely on (XLR to front of house, weight and portability) at a live at gig nobody can tell the difference (myself included).
I love the honesty TPS! Not every piece of gear is for everyone and I appreciate the specificity as to what you liked about TM and what isn’t working for you. It’s not easy to be even slightly critical of anything when you have a big audience and your opinions carry weight. So many TH-cam guitar-related channels have become empty product commercials; and I can’t stand that.
Thank you James. Truth is, most YT channels are either being paid to make the video, or they’re trying to sell you the amp. All of which is cool and valid - many of those channels are WAY bigger than we’ll ever be - but still, that’s how it works. Cheers!
I haven’t had the opportunity to compare my Tone Master to the all valve 65 reissue but having already heard the comparisons from Anderson’s and others, to my ears, the mid range on the 65 reisue wasn’t as clean as the Tone master. However some may like is that way. Not for me though, as when I want it clean I want it clean, as I can always dirty up the signal, with a drive peddle, but you can’t go back the other way. It’s just what you like, that matters after all.
I’ve got the tone master and I love it to be fair I’m not a gigging guitarist so the attenuator is a real bonus at home I tend to use it the second lowest one most of the time, I used to gig and had several tube amps but due to the venues I played I never got any of them cooking, so bizarrely for me the tone master feels like the most tubey amp I’ve played, its great to see what you guys thought though ;)
Lee Crofts I have both in the Twin version and dirty power at home. The Tonemaster Twin works better than the Katana and GTX did sound wise for me and my absolute distain for the hum from my tube version made the Tonemaster the perfect fit for the living room. There is a place for both says my hum hating brain. Still in clean power use the tube version rules.
UPDATE: I’ve had the Tone Master Deluxe Reverb blonde for a good while now and it’s awesome. The attenuation is the perfect solution for my home needs and I still get the Deluxe feel. It’s not tube, I know, but I love the TM DR blonde!
I could see this happening. Once your ear gets rid of the ‘tube expectation’, you can appreciate the TM. I’ve experienced this with my Headrush. Once I let go of it sounding like my SuperSonic 22, I’ve dialed in some great tones that I’d gig with into a PA if needed. I feel like a lively compressor and an always-on boost would do wonders for the TM.
@@jeffrey.a.hanson Funny thing, I've never owned a tube amp, so I have no tube expectations. Boost is a great thing with the ToneMaster for sure, I just use a cheap Joyo Sweet Baby. I can take or leave a compressor, but that's a personal thing. You know, it sounds cliche (because most of them do) but this amp really does take pedals well. With no effects loop it's all through the front but it still sounds great. The Boss BD-2w sounds stellar through it, too.
I’m so happy you chose the DRRI!! I took a gamble this summer while waiting for my Strat from the custom shop and took one home. It was my first tube amp, after playing a little mustang I for many years. My life has changed. You are right, I’m fortunate to life in a house now but it is shockingly loud. I only have an OCD V2 at the moment for some drive, but with amp vol on 2, I can barely let any volume out of the pedal at all, it’s crazy loud, but oh so good. I do find a bit of high end harshness from the reverb channel, but I do realize that in a mix or band situation, you’d want that. Anyway I’m so glad you enjoy that amp. The tremolo and reverb are so good.
I used to have a deluxe and I briefly had the tonemaster when they came out. I was very impressed with how far the modelling had come and I think Fender have created a great product but I couldn't make it work for me as much as I wanted to... Meanwhile... Princeton Reissue arrived yesterday and I am LOVING it! Cheers from Australia!
I hope they put out a tonemaster brownface princeton at a reasonable price! If they use the same processing power they used on these but aimed it toward nailing the overdrive and tremolo on the brown princeton, fender wouldn't be able to make enough of them to keep up with demand. Fender, don't drop the ball, dammitt!🤘😎🤘
The '65 Princeton is epic. My local shop has a hot rod deluxe, a blues junior, an AC 30 and several other great amps. The Princeton is probably the most played amp in the shop.
I’m not averse to modellers/cab sims, have a Two Notes Cab M+ on my board for “silent occasions”, but it’s clearly audible that the ones and zeros TM sounds flat (particularly with fuzz) and two dimensional compared to the sweet tube driven midrange and multidimensional reverb of the DRRI. Kudos to you chaps for giving the digital device a solid hearing. It is a different thing. 🤓
In this case even I who usually hear little difference in these A/B scenarios clearly heard a difference. For me the key is the reverb. That Fender sparkle sounded massively different with a real reverb tank. That's one reason I think the Blues Junior has been so popular for example. In my Marshall I usually turn the digital reverb off, just because it never sounds as good as a real tank does in a Fender amp. But, with some dirt sounds I think I'd take the Tone Master. That shrillness might cut in a mix, but it does also cut other ways.
I owned a tonemaster for a bit. It really does sound close to the real thing, but the feel isn't quite there, and it compresses very quickly if you run a moderate amount of gain into it. I ended up taking mine back after the first gig I played with it at full volume, that's really where the issues become apparent. That being said, I really do think it's a step in the right direction in terms of solid state amps, I hope in the future (however distant) they will get close enough to justify some of us gigging folk ditching tubes.
Love this episode! I bought the reissue and then a few months later the Tone Master came out. For a brief second I thought, "Did I just buy the wrong Fender amp?". I'm confident that the only actual advantage to the Tone Master is the weight. But you know I don't understand why that is such an advantage? If 64 lbs feels too heavy shouldn't we be thinking we need to get to the gym instead of I need a new lightweight amp? I'm 55 and I hope I can lift 64 lbs from my trunk (boot lol) to the stage for a long long time. The Deluxe Reissue is my go to amp and I have a Mesa Trem-O-Verb and a JCM 800. It just can cover almost any genre.
Its so funny to watch the pain in Dans face when he has to play a ss amp. The tone master is an amazing top level ss. I for one think I'm blessed that I enjoy both tubes and solid states. Truthfully in 2020, there is no better only different. Dan just happens to live in tube land. Its a nice town. Sometimes in tubeland your back hurts, sometimes all you hear is static, sometimes you gotta find an electronics professional to get you back up and going. But when your up and going, what a wonderful world. Lol, man that tone master and Micks strat, wowza. Love you Dan and Mick and Mr. Keely for your awesome pedal.
These amps both sound great. The Tone Master sounded even better at the lower volumes. I think that's really the selling point of the TM. You can make it sound great and push it at low levels because of the attenuator. That's a big selling point if you want the versatility. If you are more of a purist then the Deluxe is a great choice.
Being the tweaker I love being able to open up an amp and modify it. My DRRI is pretty incredibly sounding, removed the bright cap from the vibrato channel and changed the tone stack on the normal channel to have more of a bassman/jtm45 configuration. That plus a new speaker really brought the amp to life. I've played the tonemaster version and it's cool but I think it suffers from a lot of the same problems that plague the normal reissue. If you aren't a tweaker the tonemaster is great value and sounds pretty good, but after playing both the deluxe and the twin the twin wins IMO. Maybe it was just the day I tried them but I thought the twin with all the tonemaster trickery was way more interesting and useful. Great episode guys, and I'VE GOT TO SHIP THIS WORM BACK!
I was born in 1948 and have had the privilege of experiencing the metamorphosis of electric guitar amps. There was a period of time in the 70's when i used two Marshall stacks and two fender twins. Early in my career i used a fender princeton reverb and an ampeg B12XT. Back then we had to hump huge amps and other such equipment. The large amps were part of the musical culture of the time. As we grew up musically we. Players decided to stop going deaf in our 30's. Ultimatel the fender twin is the king in any situation as well as an old bassman. Today in ny home studio i use a fender hot rod deluxe through a 60's bassman cabinet and another hot rod deluxe through a marshall 4x12. I use these cabinet combinations for fullness not volune. I also have an ampeg with a 4x12 cabinet that i rarely use. One of the best kept secrets in the business is the Fender Champ 20. By itself it is a little monster. Many seasoned players will plug the champ into thr front of whatever amp they are using .this will give you huge variety of capabilities. If you try it once you will probably keep one around just for grins. It is terrific little monster in a box. Just to sum up .just my personal opinion that present day players undervthe age of 50 have become so techno dependent they have no concept real grass roots quality sound.
This is invaluable to me. I’m picking up a Tone Master at the end of the year; I have a 1966 Princeton, so I want to go bigger, and the Twin and Super are just overkill for my needs, so the only real choice is the Deluxe. But my concern with the Deluxe is that I’m after the full fidelity Fender “scooped” sound, and I worry that the Deluxe, which has an atypical amount of midrange compared to the normal blackface sound, would not be exactly what I’m after. But hearing that the Tone Master actually has less midrange than its tube counterpart is a plus for me. Kudos for an excellent, thorough demo that has addressed literally all my questions about the amp. I think it sounds fantastic.
Just a reminder about the Monday VCQ announcement at the end of this video ... there is no Monday "LIVE VCQ" on Monday October 5th (2020 for anyone reading in the 'future') ... given a following wind LIVE VCQ returns on Monday October 12th @ 5PM BST
I think this is one of the best illustrations of the difference between tube tone and those other amps. Great playing and both amps sound good but there’s SO much more life in the DRRI. Fascinating as always guys, you’re doing the lords work.
Thanks for a great video. I have only tried the DR Tonemaster in a shop when I A/B'd it against a Twin Tonemaster. The twin won hands down for what I wanted. I would like to have seen an EQ pedal with the DRs to get rid of the whole mid curve issue. However I agree with your general conclusion, the RI without eqing pushes the mids more and that's what you were looking for from a playing live standpoint. For me I have learnt that when playing at home, usually jamming along to recorded music, you need the exact opposite. IE cut those mids around 3.2K so your sound sits in the mix. That's why at home the Twin Tonemaster with a good eq pedal is perfect, and replaced my Fender valve amp. Thanks again for a great show.
I do have the Tone Master Twin Reverb amp since a few months ago and I love it, even though it's digitally made than using actual watts but I love how warm sounding with its cleans and crunch and the interesting sound it delivers with its control and the watt switch at the back is very good stuff for volume of the watts, plus sounds as good yet differently to my mind as the other Fender amps. The weight is also a big help that isn't as heavy as others. Perfect for gigging as well connecting it to the PA.
I’m at 5 minute mark and let me say that I love everything about this video at this point. I’ve had a DRRI for years and I have been a bit peeved it hasn’t served as a platform on your show.
Great episode, guys! As ever. One thing that IMHO should be considered in the equation is that A. The speaker used is different and that might introduce variables in the frequency response comparison between the two amps. B. The possibility of the TM to be upgraded via software which could bring in some modifications. I think the TM is a good amp and regardless of the differences from the DRRI, it always gives the feeling of a real tube amp when playing. Which I haven’t found yet with any other digital simulation. It’s subtle, but it’s there
I've personally owned both tube versions of the Deluxe 65 and also the Twin. I've sold both and recently bought the Tone Masters because I preferred their clarity and richness of tone. Even after watching this demo I still prefer the Tone Master. Any mid voiced characteristics of the tube versions I could compensate with a EQ pedal if needed. And the Tone Master's all pine cabinets are incredibly lightweight! I would have loved to still own the all tube version to compare with the Tone Master but unfortunately I no longer have one to compare that way. But for me the Tone Master tone is more 3 dimensional. And if you compare a 65 Reissue with an original 65 or a new hardwired deluxe they will also sound different. Loved Dan and Mick's demo though. One of the best demos Ive seen so far.
You mentioned a great point about clarity. One if the things I noticed is the Tone Master seemed to allow the pedals to do their thing more than the reissue. I think that is because of the clarity you're talking about. If you're the type of guitar player who develops you're sound by pedals, than the Tone Master is the better choice.
@@krazyhandskyle That’s right. And even plugged directly into the amp I love how the Tonemaster responds. As I stated earlier I’ve owned both tube versions and quite frankly I sold them because I didn’t like them with pedals. And I found the tube versions to have a more sterile clean tone on their own . Go figure.
@@MrBallynally2I did and I owned both.Tone is subjective and I’ve owned both the Deluxe Reverb Reissue as well as the Twin reissue. I really like the Tone Master. I’ve since did the download of virtual removal of the bright cap and reverb improvement download and changed the speaker to a Celestion Neo Creamback and even like it better. That’s another thing I don’t like about the Reissue is the Jensen speaker. It just sounds a little too cold for my taste. Not knocking the reissue because it’s a great amp. But I settled for the lighter weight and tone of the Tone Master.
Wow! I think that is one of the best tones I’ve heard on the show at the end, with the drri, with trem and reverb. Dan’s whole body posture changed and he nearly melted! Yes, that is a great sound with all kinds of harmonics swirling around. Can’t wait to here drri with matchless or vox amps. Well done guys.
I must have watched this episode at least 5 or 6 times! I bought a Tone Master Deluxe Reverb in March of 2021 and sold it just last week. 3 years is long enough to give it a fair chance! The TMDR was impressive, but i sold it for the exact reason at around 29:00. There is a depth to sound of the DRRI that is just completely missing from the TMDR, that no amount of EQ tweaking etc could seem to fix. I also didn't like how it behaved with fuzz, or really any pedal with a decent amount of gain on tap, and that's even with trying the different firmware updates. Now i use the Mad Professor Super Black pedal. It is a superb pedal for those cranked black panel tones. It has quite powerful tone shaping features: 3 band EQ, gain, volume and presence controls, bass cut, compression and also their Sweet Honey overdrive circuit built in. It can be used straight in the front or an amp, or as a preamp to the effects return. I'd love you guys to consider trying it out compared to the real deal if your doing something "black panel in a box" themed sometime.
Really useful video. While I agree that the Deluxe '65 sounds better, this video has actually convinced me to buy the Tone Master, simply because the majority of my playing will be in my apartment and the attenuator and direct out will be really useful. For rehearsals and gigs, it still sounds decent enough. I had been thinking of getting a Hot Rod Deluxe IV as it's a similar price to the Deluxe Reverb Tone Master, but having done some research it seems the Hot Rod would still be too loud for home use.
The one element that I've always loved on the actual fender tube amps is the reverb. I can never match the sound of an actual reverb tank with a pedal. You can really crank the reverb and somehow it sounds huge, but out of the way. It even comes across in this video, the reverb on the 65 Deluxe just sounds bigger and better
If you crank the reverb in a drri, you’re getting more gain as the recovery stage of the reverb will break up and compress, giving you a “bigger” feeling sound!
Hey guys, I absolutely love this show! You two are a great team and by the way, I think I'm addicted to watching these. Better than being addicted to other stuff because it inspires me to grab my guitar. You guys even inspired me to build a pedalboard out of scrap wood I had in my garage... I did it during my lunch hour LOL.
Excellent video! I’ve been playing rock n roll electric guitar for 50 years (yes, 50). Acquired TM Deluxe Reverb when they were first introduced. Loved it so much I bought another (I don’t care how much they cost). Keep one at rehearsal room, the other I use at gigs. I use Fulltone OCD when I need a high gain sound. And it’s LOUD‼️🔥🎸. Only 23 pounds ‼️‼️
As always I find tube amps to be 3 dimensional in their sound, with more body than the software / modeling version. It's more than ok for rehearsal and small gigs, but I would never be tempted using them for recording. The Kemper, different tech (profiling), makes a much better choice as far as digital amps go. Admittedly only giving you a snapshot of how an amp was dialed in, but nevertheless... I've been listening on my Genelecs and my mixing headphones to make sure I know what I hear. Great vid!
I love my ‘65 DR. I was never happy with my guitar sound until I finally sucked it up and dropped the money on a real tube amp. A Tele into a DR - there’s just no way to make it sound bad.
To be honest, all the difference (quite clear) seems to be in the midrange, and that seems very very fixable (with EQ's , or as shown with the tube screamer). The overall sound and feel is way to close to be relevant, like many owners say, and like several blind tests showcase. Also, it seems that the firmware mods bring great improvements (bright cap, reverb ...). I won't sell my Vox and Fender tube amps, but I'm aware that a big part of the attachment is purely emotional and subjective. Thanks for taking the time to do such a comprehensive review.
The dynamics are different (TM sounds like it has a compressor pedal inside), the overall tone is different, they overdrive differently and they respond very differently to drive and boost pedals. If the TM didn’t say “Deluxe” on the front I wouldn’t know which amp they were trying to model.
I've been giging with the tone master twin since they came out . It reliable, light and sounds great. Takes my pedal board. I can you use a any venue. Perfect working man's amp. Well for me. After using tube amps and having some serious fails with amps dying . I now leave the tubes at home for fun. 😀
As an always tube man, im still there, tubes is tubes, and digital is digita, How ever they made them better, but Never will be 3 dimensional! Tubes is full body, blooming up and the hotter they goes the more they come to life! This is me and mine opinion! Thanks for a very good video as always!
Yeah,I switched to the ToneMaster Twin after playing orig twins for 30+ years. 4 lumbar surgeries later …..33#’s vs. 80#’s that sound the same was a No-Brainer. I run my Tele’s and my PSG through both of mine. Yes,I liked the first one so much that I bought another one. Let me be clear,I bought the Cream Colored Twin ToneMasters. They make a Black version but it has different speakers than the Cream colored ones.
I'm half way through. There have been about 5 points where I have said to myself "well, guess I don't need to listen to any more after that", but of course I still will. Thanks for preventing me from ordering a tone master to see how I would get on ;-)
Love my little 65 Blackface: Fender Princeton Reverb reissue. One I bought it = No more Tone-envy. Incredible sounding amplifier with a Stratocaster. My pedals react differently with my Tube amp vs. my solid state amp. Tube amps . . . all the way. They sound and "Feel" different under the fingers.
I hear in the Tone master a mid range that I have heard in my own SS amps. Maybe SS amps can't dial out that midrange. I think there's just something about a tube guitar amp that just can't be replicated yet. Great work guys!
Just received my tone master - initial thoughts - BLOODY AWSOME. all the air and sparkle of the valve - to me, sold the AMP1 and other assorted lower order modellers. Just play - not stuff around with getting a computer science degree and lost in a maze of change. Music not screens. Brilliant. Thanks
Finally a proper in-depth comparison of these two amps! Thank you, Mick and Dan! So I absolutely think you made the right choice. Don’t get me wrong The Tonemaster does sound good for what it is. But it just cannot beat that sound of the real thing. And one other thing I have to say is that the price point has to come way down on the Tonemaster. Come on Fender.... at the end of the day no matter how you package it this is a Chinese made solid state digital amps! You can get a great sounding Fender Champion 100 2x12" or a Boss Katana 100 MkII 1x12" for €300. And don't forget the resell value of these digital amps, it's going to be bad - remember the Fender Cyber amps…! If the price does come down (which I very much doubt) I might get one to go along side my valve amp. But where the price is now.... nope! Anyway.... great vid as always, guys! Cheers
@That Pedal Show If Dan has fallen in love with the ‘65 reissue than you guys should really check out the ‘68 Custom Silverface. It’s truly a great amp. Reverb and Trem on both channels which means you can also bridge the channels which is glorious. No negative feedback etc... I’m happy you guys are finally adding a deluxe reverb to your arsenal. One of the best amps ever made. Enjoy!
I came here to see the tone master and just reinforced how much I want the real thing. I keep reading how the 65 doesn’t take pedals well but this video doesn’t seem to be the case... that’s why I always thought 68... but I’m back towards 65.
Just checked the price at Sweetwater. If the Tone Master was 600 bucks, then I'd say it had a chance as a contender. At $900, it's only $300 less than the Deluxe reissue. I didn't check the price of these in your British Pounds, but I'm assuming the difference is similar. For my money, I'd save up for a couple of extra months and get the Deluxe reissue. I mean the Tone Master is already 3/4 or the way there in price, but only about 2/3 of the way there in tone. BTW. I don't generally care for the digital reverb on Fender's amps. Had they gone with a spring tank on the TM, I think we all would have liked it better.
@KC the price could come mainly from the fact that its fenders first proper venture into somthing like this. yeah they've been doing solid state amps for a while now and its not like they dont have the tech for it
You helped figure out that I bought the tonemaster for the wrong reasons! Traded for a pair os lovely pro level studio monitors today! It’s plug-ins for me for the time being, until I figure out what amp to buy for gigs/ rehearsals... it’s going to be tough once I hate tube amps with all my heart and everything else sounds crappy! Thanks guys! Love your show!
The Deluxe Reverb every night and day for me. The sweetness from the tubes surrounding each note is a feeling that can’t be digitally emulated to my ears of course. Nice video as usual guys!
The best thing I stumbled on with the Tonemaster was the ability to update the firmware. It only took a few minutes to update. I found the new firmware totally fixed the overall craziness of the reverb. Its more tame and better sounding. With that, my overdrive pedals sound much warmer and not so fizzy, (TS Mini, Strymon Sunset). After I got the hang of it, I went back and forth between the stock firmware and the new firmware and noticed a better sounding amp with the new one. Loving my Tonemaster twice as much as the day I brought it home. Just my $.02CDN
@@danieltravis5082 - Nice try, but no. Still too loud for my apartment, even on the 0.2 watt setting. I'll stick to my spark and dream about owning a house in the country with no neighbours. But Dave really gets amazing Greeny blues from it on the neck pick up. My favourite amp video this year.
@@LordBransty it is a good demo, I'm just flippin ya shit. I specifically overpay (rent wise) for a tiny house in a terrible area, instead of a nice apartment in a good neighborhood, so that I can make loud noises with tube amps. It (my loud tube amps) just blends in with the Quincineras, loud car subwoofer rumble, and "Despacito" on blast at all hours of the day. I absolutely empathize with your situation. A modeler is a good solution.
I love how thorough this is....to me they both sound great! I can understand the preference for the tube version, but when you look at all the advantages of the TM it made so much sense to me that I bought the blonde version....I’m over the moon about it!
Fender Deluxe - I’ll take a tube version (64 hand wired reissue or vintage preferred over the DRRI) Fender Twin - I’ll take the Tonemaster for sure (much lighter weight and attenuator are the game changers for that amp)
I’m learning so much thanks to these shows could never properly express my gratitude (beyond buying a mug or two!) it’s funny I played oin a touring band with another guitarist and we turned our noses up hard at backline RI Twins or Deluxes for always sounding small and unappealing compared to (my) vintage Princeton or (his) RI Magnetone. Looking back after watching TPS videos I think we just weren’t playing them loud enough or using gain properly!
Seems to be a tactile, experiential difference for the player that differentiates these amp technologies because after going through the amp mics, youtube compression, and my home speakers the sounds are all really good whether tube or digital.
Well put. Think you can get an idea of the overall voicing of different amps & models via You Tube & online demos etc, so they are still really useful. But you really need to be in a room with them to know what each are fully capable of
Overall 65 deluxe, some good sounds out of the tone master with pedals at half output, except you get more low end breakup. Where the 65 deluxe stays clean and full on the bottom end.
Kudos for doing this comparison and it seems there really are people who like the sound of the Tonemaster. I think it’s good, but I expected it to be closer in it’s high eq and presence, it did the thing that I’m noticing again and again with digital things, but I can’t quite describe. A kind of rounding off or dulling of some of those high freqs.
Glad you where convinced by DeLuxe Reverb RI. I have one and have asked a tech to put a bright cap switch On/Off cause it's sometime too bright with single coils for me. No loop, no nothing but Delay and Verb sound fine in front of it, so it's simple to use. Very dynamic amp. Was disapointed by the Verb quality of mine.
If I may give my two cents about it after owning the TM for about 18 months, they’re nice but I’ve felt that on higher than 5 volume it gets both spiky at the highs and mushy at the bottom end. I’ve installed a Celestion Cream 12” 8ohms and it sounds so much nicer… it still has the Deluxe-ish sound but with a nicer midrange, tighter lows and more rounded highs. I know it’s an expensive speaker, and it’s a cheaper end amp, but it really turned it into something very special. I highly recommend this.
I have a tone master, love it, love the sound; but I lose the feel if I use a digital pedal into it. I read somewhere it is entirely designed for the Neodymium speaker, probably the reason there is no output socket for an external speaker. Nice show. PS Thorpy FX Peacekeeper into it is glorious.
@@ThatPedalShow that'd be a great show! Please include the matchless or vox in that one as people with that style amp tend to be the ones who go for 'transparent'/natural drives vs the Fender + mid boost
Great demonstration...as usual! FWIW, I own a couple of mid 60's Fender amps and they are, in my view, hard to beat. That being said, I bought a ToneMaster Deluxe and after hooking up to my Mac and installing the first "update" I was able to get rid of the excess "treble" issue...I think the term used was "remove the bright cap" as well as the "full Reverb at 2 on the dial" problem. The amp, for my purposes at this point in time, is hard to beat and at just under 24 pounds is truly remarkable. Playing at Church with the amp mic'd is a blast...the guys and gals in the control pit make the amp sound like anything they or I want it to. I still prefer my 1966 Super Reverb (all original except for tubes, caps, etc) to any other amp I have ever owned and or played but...65 pounds? 'Yikes! Back yard party...the '66 Dual Showman through 2 EVM12L's in a Bandmaster cabinet or the SR always get kudos. Indoor parties...the SR takes the cake but an upcoming party will be a good test for the TM. In my many years of playing I have found most guests at parties cannot tell, or care to tell, the difference in an amp...they just like to get up and dance. (Bass player and drummer are key). Again, great demonstration, comparison and musicianship! Bravo and thanks!
I agree. The 'Blonde' firmware update made a HUGE difference. It's like a totally different amp now. I would like to know how the comparison would've been (most likely they'd have chosen the tube amp anyway) with the update. At least it would have been much harder to tell them apart. Cheers!
There is a firmware update for the Tonemaster. It makes it more pedalfriendly, less trebly and the reverb more manageable. I love it. The firmware update is reversible btw.
I recently purchased the blonde version with the Celestion and I think the results in a blind test might come out in favor of the Tone Master. It came with the firmware update.
I think the Tone Master sounds fine, way brighter in this demo. It would actually be the better choice in certain instances... But the actual spring sound on the real 65 is SO MUCH better.
It does sound LIKE the tube version, just not Exactly like it. If it were more affordable it would probably sell much better but it’s rather overpriced for what it is IMO
I used to have a Mustang GT100. The novelty wore off about 6 months after I bought it. It always felt like I was playing a computer model of the real thing. Even though the '65 Twin & Bassman patches were really good, I still had something nagging at my brain that it was a computer model. A few months after I bought that amp I acquired a Katana 100. The Mustang is gone. Threw a bass speaker in it and gave it to my bass player. The Katana is staying put. Fast forward to the new Mustang GTX. I emailed a Fender rep and asked him specifically what had changed between the new amp and the GTX. Paraphrasing here: "Tweaked the models to be more efficient, refined this, adjusted that, blah blah." I was hoping they would have doubled the RAM and processor count. That would take away from the Tonemaster series if the GTX was too good. I want to like the Tonemaster but for the price you could spend $50 more and get the Roland Blues Cube Artist. It would allow you to at some point get the Robben Ford Dumble capsule. As much as I love the DR and the Fender cleans, I know I would be happier in the long run if I bought the BCA. Modeling is okay for some things like pedals, and I still make due with my Zoom G5n, but I'm done with modeling amps.
@@Matt_Lanzer_13 For recording though? The Mustang GT was pretty handy. I was able to get some decent sounds recorded with it. In that regard they are pretty useful. For the money though I'll take a Blues Cube Artist.
What an amazing job you guys did. I am picking out an amp for my son's 21st birthday and it was down to between these 2 amps. Made my choice with the 65 reissue easy. Thank you!
![Let’s Talk About Fender Strats [Sounds, Bridge Setup, Pickups & More] - That Pedal Show](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/-ndkUzSGKNA/mqdefault.jpg)
The perfect time for a pedal channel to use an A/B pedal but here we are plugging and unplugging lol
Pretty sure the gigrig will switch amps too lol
You only watched the first 10 minutes lol
Thank you Mick and Dan, as usual for a great ind informative video.
Hope you don't mind if I chime in with some considerations about the two speakers that are in these amps: A Jensen C12K in the '65, and a Jensen N12K in the TM. The key difference between them is the magnet: Ceramic for the C12K, Neodymium for the N12K, thus half the weight!
Fender gave us the mission to develop a Neo version of the C12K, to sound and feel virtually indistinguishable from the original Ceramic speaker.
Not an easy task, but eventually we did it: the two speakers have a nearly identical frequency response curve and dynamic response feel.
Yes, the Neo, for its nature, behaves a little different from the Ceramic. It actually behaves closer to an AlNiCo than to a Ceramic, so we tweaked other parameters to assimilate the two to the max possible.
If you would take one of the two amps and switch the two speakers back and forth, from the C12K to the N12K, you'll be have a pretty hard time to tell one from the other.
So, finally, if you heard one amp more mid-focused and one brighter and more scooped... it's not the Neodymium speaker that makes that difference, and you proved it when plugging both into the WGS loaded cab.
Hope this adds one small piece of information to the whole picture... In case you'd want more info... let me know!
Cheers from Ignazio Vagnone / Jensen Speakers.
Ignazio - Thanks man, good to hear from you. We need to talk about our Super Reverb. :0)
Gotta say, when we get around to doing the VCQ on this one I’ll be saying more positive things about Neo speakers than I ever have yet. Mick here. No problems with mic’ing this one!
Hey Jensen, I hate to break it to you but your Blackbird speaker is too good.
I really want to put 4 in an old Fender 4x12, but bills and my other 4x12 keep telling me it's not time yet 😭
I have a couple of Tornado Stealth 65s in my JCM 800 2x12 combo to avoid the previous requirement for a crane to lift the thing, don't feel like I'm missing out any, except maybe a few herniated discs.
@@jwlademann I've found if you go nuts helping your drummer they have to help you with your amp🤣
@@shawnmcvey7789 we're so pleased to hear how much you like the Blackbird! Take yr time, save for your bills, and it'll come the time for a mighty 4x12 with'em!
Okay, so I’ll try to be as objective as I can. I’m a musician who does use digital amps and live amps for recording so I’m not really an amp snob. The Tonemaster is so much more practical, being:
1. Lighter
2. Having a DI out
3. Having control over how many watts you want
4. Sounding really good
But
The tube Deluxe reverb is my favorite clean amp, and nothing is going to come close to beating it. It just so much better. And it’s like comparing a 7-8/10 to a 10/10
If the tonemaster was like 350-400, maybe it would make me buy it, but 750$ brand new is too much. You can get a used deluxe reverb for that price. For the practical musician, the tone master will work, but it won’t beat a real one.
Well put!
Same.
where the hell can you find a 750$ used deluxe reverb???
@@Brucaleeffo eBay
@@Brucaleeffo plus shipping and tax
Thank you for not trying to be comedians and concentrating on the task at hand, very helpful.
I have the Tonemaster, it is the most wonderful gigging amp. I run an always on Super Sweet first, then a few effects. Pushing air at stage volume with a band, there is no player who would not be thrilled with the tone, Fender did an amazing job with the amp. And the lightweight + reliability is unreal. For a working man’s rig, I am really happy, and I will not go back to tubes. I love the original Deluxe also, but the Tonemaster is the better amp for me.
I’m sure the punters cannot know the difference and no slipped discs for you. A winner all round.
Fair nuff but you may be a little premature on the reliabity bit?
@Luke I guess you must be from the future then!
@Luke I'm not saying because they're Digital they wont last! Im saying they are built to a price and are even cheaper than Fenders PCB amps and they dont last very well.
@Luke usually yeah.
Forget the amps. I want the Fender coffee table !
I noticed that too, really cool thing.
There is one on Reverb . Fender Coffee Table . 200 $
Cool table, but it looks like a broken toe to me.
@@JS-nf1sn I see your point! I wouldn't have thought of that UNTIL I broke my toe.
@@JS-nf1sn Agreed, I would end up with that table leg wedged between my toes!
Absolutely love that you did this one and ESPECIALLY that you included the home volume scenario. No complaints that you don't do this routinely - I get it - but it's fantastic when you do, cos so applicable to how so many people spend so much of their guitar time. Thanks!
I currently have the Twin version of the Tonemaster. It is not the same as my Deluxe Reverb or some of my other tube amps, but as a reliable gigging, practice , and silent recording amp at night when the family is in bed, the Tonemaster is pretty amazing. I do think Fender should keep relentlessly pursuing a sound that is closer to the tube counterpart, especially in the midrange and headroom found in the real tube amps. Still, can you believe that digital amps sound this good and are so easy to record with? I did a little recording thing with someone the other night where we just decided to lay down ideas with the cab sim xlr out on the Tonemaster. It sounds sick. We are not starved for tone. Just spoiled with options.
True Words
Jealous - the Twin is the one I want.
Does it compare to roland and the tweed tone of the blues cube?
@@LeviBulger there’s no reason to own one? Besides over doubling the price when you take into account the money you need to buy new valves?
Ofc the £1200 amp is gonna sound better than the £600 pound amp 🤷♂️
I just got the Deluxe Tone Master 5 days ago, I’m super happy with it. I had a Silverface Twin Reverb years ago, and I loved it, but it was too loud and too heavy to be useful in any way. Obviously the Deluxe (either tube or digital) is not supposed to sound like the Twin, but this Tone Master is as close to the sound AND feel of that old LOUD Twin I’ve ever gotten since I traded it for a Les Paul. It handles all my overdrive pedals extremely well for any style I want to play. I am REALLY curious about the Twin TM, now, but I’m not going to be able to swing that for a while.
I don’t see these Tone Masters replacing tube amps, but they are a very useful tool to add to the tool box. I’m loving mine.
This is a real classic. The enthusiasm you bring to putting these amps through their paces and really trying to give the tone master a fair shake is infectious and entertaining. Well done.
This is probably my favourite TPS episode ever. I like it as much as much for the process as the content - watching these two gentlemen - vastly more experienced than I - investigate a comparison, not only gives me a bit but teaches me how to cast a net, as it were. Well done chaps.
The pursuit of the perfect tone and gear is half the fun.
Let's see which one we're going to buy ?
I've more chance of biting my arse than you two buying a digital amp !!!!
@H Kay its a saying that I've stolen from my brother
😂
Your surname for sure makes it even harder
@@tomz1989 hahahaha
I bit my arse once.But then,I was on mushrooms at the time...................
The tonemaster sounds great, there's no doubt there and to the average pub/club punter probably the same. But on studio monitors with a direct A/B comparison, they're worlds apart. I would totally buy the tonemaster if I was gigging every night with no roadies but for a studio it'd be the real deal all day long
100% right :)
This is the way
My thoughts exactly, but why the high price tag then? Poor gigging musicians deseve a tonemaster in the 500 range. Methinks some kind of greed involved here. Vox put out it's nighttrain, a 30W tube head and celestion speaker cab for 500. No excuse for pricing a modelling amp at 900.
I'm not a native english speaker so my english are limited. Can someone explain to me what he's trying to say in a simple word. Thanks.
I totally agree, but the price is an absolute joke. I bought the Mustang LT50 which is basically 1 thousand dollars cheaper here in Aus. It has a line out to run to the desk, and you can get some really awesome tones from it plus it has all the effects built in.
Thanks very much. Finally- a high audio quality comparison of these amps where the presenter isn't trying to sell the Tonemaster!
Welcome to That Pedal Show! :0)
I had a hard time with these 2 choices about 6 months ago. I finally decided on the tonemaster because of the surprising great tone and other perks. No regrets at all. It is a fantastic amp!
@Luke lol. the classic argument. I played a hot rod deluxe tube amp for years and the tonemaster is not even in the same ballpark. Dare I say... it's better! Alot better. Congratulations on your purchase. It's an amazing amp.👍
@Luke absolutely. It's the perfect amp in my opinion. They definitely nailed it man. One thing you should know is that the speaker needs to be broken in. When I first bought it I thought it sounded good but after a few months of playing through it everyday it started to sound great! I haven't seen one person on the net complain about the amp yet. This amp is the future in my opinion. So much more convenient and less things to worry about. I just hope it can survive long time use. I don't see a whole lot that can go wrong with them though. I bought mine like a year ago and I still get excited every time I play it. I'm actually still as obsessed with it as I was the day I bought it. The hype is well deserved. Everybody seems to love em.
Really love the glance in Dan´s eyes when he's pointing out that he fell in love with the amplifier ;) That's how you know that it's true !
I have a hand-wired Deluxe Reverb Clone built by an amp tech friend (my favourite amp), and a Tone Master Twin that I bought for gigs so that I could keep my tube amps at home for recording and practicing. It has worked out very well - the TM Twin sounds great and is the perfect amp for any gig with the low weight, attenuator and speaker-emulatated direct out. I actually use it a lot for practicing as well because I can leave it on all day without worry of wearing out tubes and I turn the attentuator all the way down. At this point, the Tone Master is just another one of my amps with a few conveniences though it can't be used to heat my room :-) As for the comparison, both amps sound great to me in the video, though quite different.
I'm not sure I can hear all the differences you hear. But even if they are different, the Tone Master for sure sounds like a proper Fender tube amp. Which is a pretty amazing achievement, even if it's not dead on for the exact model.
You guys really are not the target audience for the Tonemaster. As you've shown over years of doing this show, you're about tone at all costs, regardless of inconvenience or cost. I think the Tonemaster still sounds really good, maybe just not as good as the '65. But the tradeoff is you get an amp that's less expensive initially, has lower maintenance costs over time, is much lighter, can overdrive at any volume, and can record or go to a PA direct. None of the benefits of the Tonemaster really matter to you guys so that's all out the window.
I'll also say, I think the new blonde Tonemaster sounds much better than that one. Andertons did a good video comparing the two.
Spot on...
As someone who almost only uses an amp in my practice room, dialing down the watts is rather important. I found I couldn't get full tones out of my 15 watt amp, but at it's 5 watt settings it sounded much better. I would imagine that with a good EQ pedal, I could get good tone out of the Tonemaster and use it at home.
Well said. I love these guys, but I knew before starting the video that it wasn't for them hah
Yeah, there's never really much question as to which will sound better, vintage vs. modelling. It comes down to cost and other features. This is also the guy that will play a vintage tape echo over one of the fine new pedals, so we know what he is going to like better going in.
But the blonde has a celestion speaker and is not so charateristic Fender'ish😉It's maybe better for the overdriven sound. I still prefer the black one......no I still prefer the '65 Deluxe Reverb😉
Wow the most telling and decisive look at these amps I've heard yet. I want to want one of these tone masters, but the anemic nature of it next to the actual tube amp is clearly evident here. Thank you!
I suggest you try them in person. They range from being kinda different from the tube amp and 100% identical. And it's really just because every single tonemaster amp sounds identical, but every tube amp sounds quite different.
I own the Tonemaster and love it. I also try comparing with the tube counterparts anytime I see them next to each other at a store. The tonemaster always sounds like mine and the tube version always sounds different. Most of the tube ones, especially if they are used, sound a bit less pristine. Like they are noisier, have more mid range, and the attack is softer. Which is something that can be preferred. But some of them have a sharper attack and are more scooped and sound very clean, just like the tonemaster. Clearly the latter was Fender's preference when deciding which Tube deluxe to base the tonemaster on.
But I love the tonemaster. I play with my amp cranked to 10 at midnight in my apartment without bothering neighbors because of the attenuator. Getting the tone I want at any volume is so great. The fact that it weighs about 20 pounds is amazing. And Recording direct with it is a dream. If I need to record an Idea quickly, I just throw in an XLR cable and that's it. Don't need to set up a mic or worry about my recording volume.
@@TheDilligan Thanks man. I agree these things have come a LOOOOOOOOONG way, and that almost every Twin I have ever plugged into sounds very different. I did go play one and it did sound great, in isolation. The only way to truly tell for me would be in a full band full volume situation to see how it sits with the rest of the band. I also kinda thought it sounded very much like the Quilter amps that I'd played that sounded great on their own but then when put next to an actual tube you could really pick out the false extra low end and over sparkley highs. If only they'd built in a more hp/lp eq like the tube versions just do naturally. One of these days!
Hi, Brendan! Updating the firmware to 'Blonde' (no speaker swap!) made a HUGE difference. See my post above (12/2021). I was initially quite disappointed but now the TM has become my go to amp as it sounds really good and is light as *%ll. Also fun to see peoples reactions when I show there's no tubes. Cheers!
I just gigged with my TM a couple weeks ago here at a socially distanced outdoor festival in Canada and the freedom of not worrying about it being bumped etc was amazing. No “VALVE” worry. It was mic’d and the attenuator was a revelation for working with front of house to nail tone + volume. Aside - for home recording, pre-production demos etc the DI is REALLY good. Fast and effortless - no fiddling with mic’s or iso-cabs. Rhett is right. This is a working musician’s gigging amp. Home run Fender.
Great that it’s working for you Dave. I guess working musician is a bit of a catch all - there are working musicians using everything - tubes, modelling, solid state, combos, heads, racks, mics, DIs etc etc. Whatever gets you connected and in the flow is what works we guess. Cheers!
Fantastic video Gents. But you’re In an isolated lab environment, and that’s OK, and valuable . But hearing the Tone Master series in live gig situations, the DR as well as the Twin, is indistinguishable in the mix. That, along with the direct out IR’s, attenuation, weight, and other reliability factors renders these apps a no-brainer for the gigging musician. Thank you for such great content.
@@michaelgoupil972- completely agree. I rely so heavily on my TM Deluxe and Twin for just that reason. In addition to all the other traits I rely on (XLR to front of house, weight and portability) at a live at gig nobody can tell the difference (myself included).
I love the honesty TPS! Not every piece of gear is for everyone and I appreciate the specificity as to what you liked about TM and what isn’t working for you. It’s not easy to be even slightly critical of anything when you have a big audience and your opinions carry weight. So many TH-cam guitar-related channels have become empty product commercials; and I can’t stand that.
Thank you James. Truth is, most YT channels are either being paid to make the video, or they’re trying to sell you the amp. All of which is cool and valid - many of those channels are WAY bigger than we’ll ever be - but still, that’s how it works. Cheers!
i’m 35 seconds in and I already know they’re gonna pick the tubes
I hadn't even clicked 'play' and I knew that.
I haven’t had the opportunity to compare my Tone Master to the all valve 65 reissue but having already heard the comparisons from Anderson’s and others, to my ears, the mid range on the 65 reisue wasn’t as clean as the Tone master. However some may like is that way. Not for me though, as when I want it clean I want it clean, as I can always dirty up the signal, with a drive peddle, but you can’t go back the other way. It’s just what you like, that matters after all.
I’ve got the tone master and I love it to be fair I’m not a gigging guitarist so the attenuator is a real bonus at home I tend to use it the second lowest one most of the time, I used to gig and had several tube amps but due to the venues I played I never got any of them cooking, so bizarrely for me the tone master feels like the most tubey amp I’ve played, its great to see what you guys thought though ;)
Lee Crofts I have both in the Twin version and dirty power at home. The Tonemaster Twin works better than the Katana and GTX did sound wise for me and my absolute distain for the hum from my tube version made the Tonemaster the perfect fit for the living room. There is a place for both says my hum hating brain. Still in clean power use the tube version rules.
Yes, I think that the guys would agree with you - in fact I think Mick actually says so towards the end. P
I really appreciate the honesty of this review. One of the few channels that doesn’t hype or let the manufacturer bias their opinion.
UPDATE: I’ve had the Tone Master Deluxe Reverb blonde for a good while now and it’s awesome. The attenuation is the perfect solution for my home needs and I still get the Deluxe feel. It’s not tube, I know, but I love the TM DR blonde!
I could see this happening. Once your ear gets rid of the ‘tube expectation’, you can appreciate the TM. I’ve experienced this with my Headrush. Once I let go of it sounding like my SuperSonic 22, I’ve dialed in some great tones that I’d gig with into a PA if needed.
I feel like a lively compressor and an always-on boost would do wonders for the TM.
@@jeffrey.a.hanson Funny thing, I've never owned a tube amp, so I have no tube expectations. Boost is a great thing with the ToneMaster for sure, I just use a cheap Joyo Sweet Baby. I can take or leave a compressor, but that's a personal thing. You know, it sounds cliche (because most of them do) but this amp really does take pedals well. With no effects loop it's all through the front but it still sounds great. The Boss BD-2w sounds stellar through it, too.
I’m so happy you chose the DRRI!! I took a gamble this summer while waiting for my Strat from the custom shop and took one home. It was my first tube amp, after playing a little mustang I for many years. My life has changed.
You are right, I’m fortunate to life in a house now but it is shockingly loud. I only have an OCD V2 at the moment for some drive, but with amp vol on 2, I can barely let any volume out of the pedal at all, it’s crazy loud, but oh so good. I do find a bit of high end harshness from the reverb channel, but I do realize that in a mix or band situation, you’d want that.
Anyway I’m so glad you enjoy that amp. The tremolo and reverb are so good.
I used to have a deluxe and I briefly had the tonemaster when they came out. I was very impressed with how far the modelling had come and I think Fender have created a great product but I couldn't make it work for me as much as I wanted to... Meanwhile... Princeton Reissue arrived yesterday and I am LOVING it! Cheers from Australia!
I hope they put out a tonemaster brownface princeton at a reasonable price! If they use the same processing power they used on these but aimed it toward nailing the overdrive and tremolo on the brown princeton, fender wouldn't be able to make enough of them to keep up with demand. Fender, don't drop the ball, dammitt!🤘😎🤘
JakeFJ Princeton - Awesome 😎
Alan Ohagan or go a bit further in same direction = Morgan PR12 :-)
Did you get the ‘65 or ‘68 Custom Princeton? I just picked up the LE version of the ‘68 Custom with a Celestion Greenback. It is fantastic.
The '65 Princeton is epic. My local shop has a hot rod deluxe, a blues junior, an AC 30 and several other great amps. The Princeton is probably the most played amp in the shop.
I’m not averse to modellers/cab sims, have a Two Notes Cab M+ on my board for “silent occasions”, but it’s clearly audible that the ones and zeros TM sounds flat (particularly with fuzz) and two dimensional compared to the sweet tube driven midrange and multidimensional reverb of the DRRI. Kudos to you chaps for giving the digital device a solid hearing. It is a different thing. 🤓
In this case even I who usually hear little difference in these A/B scenarios clearly heard a difference. For me the key is the reverb. That Fender sparkle sounded massively different with a real reverb tank. That's one reason I think the Blues Junior has been so popular for example. In my Marshall I usually turn the digital reverb off, just because it never sounds as good as a real tank does in a Fender amp.
But, with some dirt sounds I think I'd take the Tone Master. That shrillness might cut in a mix, but it does also cut other ways.
I owned a tonemaster for a bit. It really does sound close to the real thing, but the feel isn't quite there, and it compresses very quickly if you run a moderate amount of gain into it. I ended up taking mine back after the first gig I played with it at full volume, that's really where the issues become apparent.
That being said, I really do think it's a step in the right direction in terms of solid state amps, I hope in the future (however distant) they will get close enough to justify some of us gigging folk ditching tubes.
Digital modeling is different from Solid State transistor. Digital is solid state but, not all solid state is digital.
I always test drive cars with a blindfold on. It's the only way you get a fair comparison.
Hahahahah
Hooah!
@@LorSTApunk07 Al? That you?
Stevie Wonder test driving a Cameo vs. a Tesla?
@@davidhovey5152 If he can play keyboards, bass, drums and sing all on the same track, then I'm pretty sure he can drive! :D
Love this episode! I bought the reissue and then a few months later the Tone Master came out. For a brief second I thought, "Did I just buy the wrong Fender amp?". I'm confident that the only actual advantage to the Tone Master is the weight. But you know I don't understand why that is such an advantage? If 64 lbs feels too heavy shouldn't we be thinking we need to get to the gym instead of I need a new lightweight amp? I'm 55 and I hope I can lift 64 lbs from my trunk (boot lol) to the stage for a long long time. The Deluxe Reissue is my go to amp and I have a Mesa Trem-O-Verb and a JCM 800. It just can cover almost any genre.
Amen, heavier amps for stronger people with more fight in them. The tone is worth it in my opinion
The Silverface 68 Deluxe is the often forgotten, but amazing gem of the deluxe reverb world
I have a silverface 68 vibrolux and I love it. I’ll run it alongside my vox ac30, but if I’m playing with only 1 amp, I go to the vibrolux.
Its so funny to watch the pain in Dans face when he has to play a ss amp. The tone master is an amazing top level ss. I for one think I'm blessed that I enjoy both tubes and solid states. Truthfully in 2020, there is no better only different. Dan just happens to live in tube land. Its a nice town. Sometimes in tubeland your back hurts, sometimes all you hear is static, sometimes you gotta find an electronics professional to get you back up and going. But when your up and going, what a wonderful world. Lol, man that tone master and Micks strat, wowza. Love you Dan and Mick and Mr. Keely for your awesome pedal.
😂
You can easily fix a deluxe tern after warranty. Good luck fixing a ss amp after warranty lol.
tube snobs are idiots, and I own tube amps.
These amps both sound great. The Tone Master sounded even better at the lower volumes. I think that's really the selling point of the TM. You can make it sound great and push it at low levels because of the attenuator. That's a big selling point if you want the versatility. If you are more of a purist then the Deluxe is a great choice.
Dans face test...
When playing Deluxe Reverb 65 = 😍
When playing the ToneMaster = 🤔
Only one winner. Great show.
Exactly my thoughts too, Dan tried but could not hide his true feelings in this comparison! Awesome Video Guys!!!!
Being the tweaker I love being able to open up an amp and modify it. My DRRI is pretty incredibly sounding, removed the bright cap from the vibrato channel and changed the tone stack on the normal channel to have more of a bassman/jtm45 configuration. That plus a new speaker really brought the amp to life. I've played the tonemaster version and it's cool but I think it suffers from a lot of the same problems that plague the normal reissue. If you aren't a tweaker the tonemaster is great value and sounds pretty good, but after playing both the deluxe and the twin the twin wins IMO. Maybe it was just the day I tried them but I thought the twin with all the tonemaster trickery was way more interesting and useful. Great episode guys, and I'VE GOT TO SHIP THIS WORM BACK!
I hope you find Jesus and rehab helps you get better
@@slash2jimi Say what now?
Fender Deluxe Reverb Reissue - my favourite amp! 🎛❤️ Sounding great guys!
I was born in 1948 and have had the privilege of experiencing the metamorphosis of electric guitar amps. There was a period of time in the 70's when i used two Marshall stacks and two fender twins. Early in my career i used a fender princeton reverb and an ampeg B12XT. Back then we had to hump huge amps and other such equipment. The large amps were part of the musical culture of the time. As we grew up musically we. Players decided to stop going deaf in our 30's. Ultimatel the fender twin is the king in any situation as well as an old bassman. Today in ny home studio i use a fender hot rod deluxe through a 60's bassman cabinet and another hot rod deluxe through a marshall 4x12. I use these cabinet combinations for fullness not volune. I also have an ampeg with a 4x12 cabinet that i rarely use. One of the best kept secrets in the business is the Fender Champ 20. By itself it is a little monster. Many seasoned players will plug the champ into thr front of whatever amp they are using .this will give you huge variety of capabilities. If you try it once you will probably keep one around just for grins. It is terrific little monster in a box. Just to sum up .just my personal opinion that present day players undervthe age of 50 have become so techno dependent they have no concept real grass roots quality sound.
This is invaluable to me. I’m picking up a Tone Master at the end of the year; I have a 1966 Princeton, so I want to go bigger, and the Twin and Super are just overkill for my needs, so the only real choice is the Deluxe. But my concern with the Deluxe is that I’m after the full fidelity Fender “scooped” sound, and I worry that the Deluxe, which has an atypical amount of midrange compared to the normal blackface sound, would not be exactly what I’m after. But hearing that the Tone Master actually has less midrange than its tube counterpart is a plus for me. Kudos for an excellent, thorough demo that has addressed literally all my questions about the amp. I think it sounds fantastic.
Just a reminder about the Monday VCQ announcement at the end of this video ... there is no Monday "LIVE VCQ" on Monday October 5th (2020 for anyone reading in the 'future') ... given a following wind LIVE VCQ returns on Monday October 12th @ 5PM BST
Thank you BV! Good job you’re awake!
Thanks BV!
I think this is one of the best illustrations of the difference between tube tone and those other amps. Great playing and both amps sound good but there’s SO much more life in the DRRI. Fascinating as always guys, you’re doing the lords work.
Thanks for a great video.
I have only tried the DR Tonemaster in a shop when I A/B'd it against a Twin Tonemaster. The twin won hands down for what I wanted.
I would like to have seen an EQ pedal with the DRs to get rid of the whole mid curve issue.
However I agree with your general conclusion, the RI without eqing pushes the mids more and that's what you were looking for from a playing live standpoint. For me I have learnt that when playing at home, usually jamming along to recorded music, you need the exact opposite. IE cut those mids around 3.2K so your sound sits in the mix. That's why at home the Twin Tonemaster with a good eq pedal is perfect, and replaced my Fender valve amp.
Thanks again for a great show.
I do have the Tone Master Twin Reverb amp since a few months ago and I love it, even though it's digitally made than using actual watts but I love how warm sounding with its cleans and crunch and the interesting sound it delivers with its control and the watt switch at the back is very good stuff for volume of the watts, plus sounds as good yet differently to my mind as the other Fender amps. The weight is also a big help that isn't as heavy as others. Perfect for gigging as well connecting it to the PA.
I’m at 5 minute mark and let me say that I love everything about this video at this point. I’ve had a DRRI for years and I have been a bit peeved it hasn’t served as a platform on your show.
Expect to see a lot more of it from here on in. Cheers!
Great episode, guys! As ever. One thing that IMHO should be considered in the equation is that
A. The speaker used is different and that might introduce variables in the frequency response comparison between the two amps.
B. The possibility of the TM to be upgraded via software which could bring in some modifications.
I think the TM is a good amp and regardless of the differences from the DRRI, it always gives the feeling of a real tube amp when playing. Which I haven’t found yet with any other digital simulation. It’s subtle, but it’s there
I've personally owned both tube versions of the Deluxe 65 and also the Twin. I've sold both and recently bought the Tone Masters because I preferred their clarity and richness of tone. Even after watching this demo I still prefer the Tone Master. Any mid voiced characteristics of the tube versions I could compensate with a EQ pedal if needed. And the Tone Master's all pine cabinets are incredibly lightweight!
I would have loved to still own the all tube version to compare with the Tone Master but unfortunately I no longer have one to compare that way. But for me the Tone Master tone is more 3 dimensional. And if you compare a 65 Reissue with an original 65 or a new hardwired deluxe they will also sound different.
Loved Dan and Mick's demo though. One of the best demos Ive seen so far.
You mentioned a great point about clarity. One if the things I noticed is the Tone Master seemed to allow the pedals to do their thing more than the reissue. I think that is because of the clarity you're talking about. If you're the type of guitar player who develops you're sound by pedals, than the Tone Master is the better choice.
@@krazyhandskyle That’s right. And even plugged directly into the amp I love how the Tonemaster responds. As I stated earlier I’ve owned both tube versions and quite frankly I sold them because I didn’t like them with pedals. And I found the tube versions to have a more sterile clean tone on their own . Go figure.
That sounds like self justification after the fact. There is No way anybody will pick the Tonemaster over the DR.
@@MrBallynally2I did and I owned both.Tone is subjective and I’ve owned both the Deluxe Reverb Reissue as well as the Twin reissue. I really like the Tone Master. I’ve since did the download of virtual removal of the bright cap and reverb improvement download and changed the speaker to a Celestion Neo Creamback and even like it better. That’s another thing I don’t like about the Reissue is the Jensen speaker. It just sounds a little too cold for my taste. Not knocking the reissue because it’s a great amp. But I settled for the lighter weight and tone of the Tone Master.
Wow! I think that is one of the best tones I’ve heard on the show at the end, with the drri, with trem and reverb. Dan’s whole body posture changed and he nearly melted! Yes, that is a great sound with all kinds of harmonics swirling around. Can’t wait to here drri with matchless or vox amps. Well done guys.
THAT is what it’s all about. When you forget about the gear and just play. :0)
I must have watched this episode at least 5 or 6 times!
I bought a Tone Master Deluxe Reverb in March of 2021 and sold it just last week. 3 years is long enough to give it a fair chance!
The TMDR was impressive, but i sold it for the exact reason at around 29:00. There is a depth to sound of the DRRI that is just completely missing from the TMDR, that no amount of EQ tweaking etc could seem to fix. I also didn't like how it behaved with fuzz, or really any pedal with a decent amount of gain on tap, and that's even with trying the different firmware updates.
Now i use the Mad Professor Super Black pedal. It is a superb pedal for those cranked black panel tones. It has quite powerful tone shaping features: 3 band EQ, gain, volume and presence controls, bass cut, compression and also their Sweet Honey overdrive circuit built in.
It can be used straight in the front or an amp, or as a preamp to the effects return.
I'd love you guys to consider trying it out compared to the real deal if your doing something "black panel in a box" themed sometime.
Really useful video. While I agree that the Deluxe '65 sounds better, this video has actually convinced me to buy the Tone Master, simply because the majority of my playing will be in my apartment and the attenuator and direct out will be really useful. For rehearsals and gigs, it still sounds decent enough. I had been thinking of getting a Hot Rod Deluxe IV as it's a similar price to the Deluxe Reverb Tone Master, but having done some research it seems the Hot Rod would still be too loud for home use.
The one element that I've always loved on the actual fender tube amps is the reverb. I can never match the sound of an actual reverb tank with a pedal. You can really crank the reverb and somehow it sounds huge, but out of the way. It even comes across in this video, the reverb on the 65 Deluxe just sounds bigger and better
Check out a pedal called the Element. It's a spring reverb tank that attaches to a pedal and can be mounted on your board!
If you crank the reverb in a drri, you’re getting more gain as the recovery stage of the reverb will break up and compress, giving you a “bigger” feeling sound!
Yes, to me the Reverb is big part of the Deluxe sound. Without reverb it sounds kinda dull .
Mick: “do your own blindfold test”
Dan: “but don’t drive that way”
Mick: “well...”
*sudden edit for legal purposes*
🤣
Well spotted!
Hey guys, I absolutely love this show! You two are a great team and by the way, I think I'm addicted to watching these. Better than being addicted to other stuff because it inspires me to grab my guitar. You guys even inspired me to build a pedalboard out of scrap wood I had in my garage... I did it during my lunch hour LOL.
Excellent video! I’ve been playing rock n roll electric guitar for 50 years (yes, 50). Acquired TM Deluxe Reverb when they were first introduced. Loved it so much I bought another (I don’t care how much they cost). Keep one at rehearsal room, the other I use at gigs. I use Fulltone OCD when I need a high gain sound. And it’s LOUD‼️🔥🎸. Only 23 pounds ‼️‼️
As always I find tube amps to be 3 dimensional in their sound, with more body than the software / modeling version. It's more than ok for rehearsal and small gigs, but I would never be tempted using them for recording. The Kemper, different tech (profiling), makes a much better choice as far as digital amps go. Admittedly only giving you a snapshot of how an amp was dialed in, but nevertheless... I've been listening on my Genelecs and my mixing headphones to make sure I know what I hear. Great vid!
I love my ‘65 DR. I was never happy with my guitar sound until I finally sucked it up and dropped the money on a real tube amp. A Tele into a DR - there’s just no way to make it sound bad.
To be honest, all the difference (quite clear) seems to be in the midrange, and that seems very very fixable (with EQ's , or as shown with the tube screamer). The overall sound and feel is way to close to be relevant, like many owners say, and like several blind tests showcase. Also, it seems that the firmware mods bring great improvements (bright cap, reverb ...). I won't sell my Vox and Fender tube amps, but I'm aware that a big part of the attachment is purely emotional and subjective. Thanks for taking the time to do such a comprehensive review.
The dynamics are different (TM sounds like it has a compressor pedal inside), the overall tone is different, they overdrive differently and they respond very differently to drive and boost pedals. If the TM didn’t say “Deluxe” on the front I wouldn’t know which amp they were trying to model.
I've been giging with the tone master twin since they came out . It reliable, light and sounds great. Takes my pedal board. I can you use a any venue. Perfect working man's amp. Well for me. After using tube amps and having some serious fails with amps dying . I now leave the tubes at home for fun. 😀
Deluxe Reverb. What a great clean sound.
As an always tube man, im still there, tubes is tubes, and digital is digita, How ever they made them better, but Never will be 3 dimensional! Tubes is full body, blooming up and the hotter they goes the more they come to life! This is me and mine opinion! Thanks for a very good video as always!
I learn soooo much from both of you, it's so appreciated. I've come to trust on both you. Thank you!
I was considering one of the Tonemaster DRs for the reduced weight, will stick with my SF Deluxe Reverbs now!
Whatever video of yours I'm watching, it usually makes me wanna play my guitar right away :) Love your channel!
I just bought a Deluxe Reverb RI...and I am in love with it too...especially when paired with my Telecasters
Yeah,I switched to the ToneMaster Twin after playing orig twins for 30+ years.
4 lumbar surgeries later …..33#’s vs. 80#’s that sound the same was a No-Brainer. I run my Tele’s and my PSG through both of mine.
Yes,I liked the first one so much that I bought another one. Let me be clear,I bought the Cream Colored Twin ToneMasters. They make a Black version but it has different speakers than the Cream colored ones.
I'm half way through. There have been about 5 points where I have said to myself "well, guess I don't need to listen to any more after that", but of course I still will. Thanks for preventing me from ordering a tone master to see how I would get on ;-)
Love my little 65 Blackface: Fender Princeton Reverb reissue. One I bought it = No more Tone-envy. Incredible sounding amplifier with a Stratocaster. My pedals react differently with my Tube amp vs. my solid state amp. Tube amps . . . all the way. They sound and "Feel" different under the fingers.
I hear in the Tone master a mid range that I have heard in my own SS amps. Maybe SS amps can't dial out that midrange. I think there's just something about a tube guitar amp that just can't be replicated yet. Great work guys!
My Samsung Galaxy 21 ultra has been a sonic pleasure. Thanks guys! The 65 was obviously better to me. You're appreciated!🙂
Just received my tone master - initial thoughts - BLOODY AWSOME. all the air and sparkle of the valve - to me, sold the AMP1 and other assorted lower order modellers. Just play - not stuff around with getting a computer science degree and lost in a maze of change. Music not screens. Brilliant. Thanks
And @Steve P says he missed that sparkle on the Tonemaster.... funny how that works, perception and expectations I guess....
Great comparison. 9:42 is it for me. The ToneMaster doesn't sound bad at all, but compared to the '65 it's harsh and lacking some warmth/body.
Exactly this
Finally a proper in-depth comparison of these two amps! Thank you, Mick and Dan!
So I absolutely think you made the right choice. Don’t get me wrong The Tonemaster does sound good for what it is. But it just cannot beat that sound of the real thing.
And one other thing I have to say is that the price point has to come way down on the Tonemaster. Come on Fender.... at the end of the day no matter how you package it this is a Chinese made solid state digital amps! You can get a great sounding Fender Champion 100 2x12" or a Boss Katana 100 MkII 1x12" for €300. And don't forget the resell value of these digital amps, it's going to be bad - remember the Fender Cyber amps…! If the price does come down (which I very much doubt) I might get one to go along side my valve amp. But where the price is now.... nope! Anyway.... great vid as always, guys! Cheers
@That Pedal Show If Dan has fallen in love with the ‘65 reissue than you guys should really check out the ‘68 Custom Silverface. It’s truly a great amp. Reverb and Trem on both channels which means you can also bridge the channels which is glorious. No negative feedback etc... I’m happy you guys are finally adding a deluxe reverb to your arsenal. One of the best amps ever made. Enjoy!
Pretty sure Dan would prefer that. Although it’s a step closer to his Matchless... and that is VERY dangerous territory.
I came here to see the tone master and just reinforced how much I want the real thing. I keep reading how the 65 doesn’t take pedals well but this video doesn’t seem to be the case... that’s why I always thought 68... but I’m back towards 65.
The '68 silver face is amazing. I dont know how well the reissues hold up, but I've got an original one, and I cant live without it
I've been waiting since 2016 for you guys to get a Deluxe reverb on the show, glad you liked it, love mine.
I've seen (& heard) Johnny Marr on the Tone Master, and I was sold!! 😃 Nice vid 👍
Just checked the price at Sweetwater. If the Tone Master was 600 bucks, then I'd say it had a chance as a contender. At $900, it's only $300 less than the Deluxe reissue. I didn't check the price of these in your British Pounds, but I'm assuming the difference is similar.
For my money, I'd save up for a couple of extra months and get the Deluxe reissue. I mean the Tone Master is already 3/4 or the way there in price, but only about 2/3 of the way there in tone.
BTW. I don't generally care for the digital reverb on Fender's amps. Had they gone with a spring tank on the TM, I think we all would have liked it better.
Spot on. Fender missed the boat by costing this the way they did
@KC the price could come mainly from the fact that its fenders first proper venture into somthing like this. yeah they've been doing solid state amps for a while now and its not like they dont have the tech for it
That's "Great" British Pounds to you, bud!
“Oh blinkin heck”- Dan realizing he has super strength
The reverb tank difference was enough for me, it was like night and day.
Vid is a bit long but is by far one of the best and most comprehensive comparisons I ever watched. Compliments gentlemen!
You helped figure out that I bought the tonemaster for the wrong reasons!
Traded for a pair os lovely pro level studio monitors today! It’s plug-ins for me for the time being, until I figure out what amp to buy for gigs/ rehearsals... it’s going to be tough once I hate tube amps with all my heart and everything else sounds crappy!
Thanks guys! Love your show!
The Deluxe Reverb every night and day for me. The sweetness from the tubes surrounding each note is a feeling that can’t be digitally emulated to my ears of course. Nice video as usual guys!
The best thing I stumbled on with the Tonemaster was the ability to update the firmware. It only took a few minutes to update. I found the new firmware totally fixed the overall craziness of the reverb. Its more tame and better sounding. With that, my overdrive pedals sound much warmer and not so fizzy, (TS Mini, Strymon Sunset). After I got the hang of it, I went back and forth between the stock firmware and the new firmware and noticed a better sounding amp with the new one. Loving my Tonemaster twice as much as the day I brought it home. Just my $.02CDN
The capacitors update or only reverb update?
I just did this too. Trying out the bright cap update. Love the reverb fix.
@@javamon let me know how the bright update sounds please. I'm going back and forth on the blackface and the blonde
@@christophervincent8420 I think I like it but the EQ needs tweaking. My setting on the Vibrato Channel are: 5 5 3 6 2 2
How close is it to the original when it comes to the sound of the Deluxe after the bright cap update?
Dave Simpson does a great Tonemaster unboxing review. He gets fantastic tones out of it, and prefers it to the real thing.
Daves like an excited puppy with everything though. Hard to gauge something with him(plus his ridiculous skills 🎸)
Spotted the tone master owner
@@danieltravis5082 - Nice try, but no. Still too loud for my apartment, even on the 0.2 watt setting. I'll stick to my spark and dream about owning a house in the country with no neighbours. But Dave really gets amazing Greeny blues from it on the neck pick up. My favourite amp video this year.
@@LordBransty it is a good demo, I'm just flippin ya shit. I specifically overpay (rent wise) for a tiny house in a terrible area, instead of a nice apartment in a good neighborhood, so that I can make loud noises with tube amps.
It (my loud tube amps) just blends in with the Quincineras, loud car subwoofer rumble, and "Despacito" on blast at all hours of the day.
I absolutely empathize with your situation. A modeler is a good solution.
I love how thorough this is....to me they both sound great! I can understand the preference for the tube version, but when you look at all the advantages of the TM it made so much sense to me that I bought the blonde version....I’m over the moon about it!
Fender Deluxe - I’ll take a tube version (64 hand wired reissue or vintage preferred over the DRRI)
Fender Twin - I’ll take the Tonemaster for sure (much lighter weight and attenuator are the game changers for that amp)
I’m learning so much thanks to these shows could never properly express my gratitude (beyond buying a mug or two!) it’s funny I played oin a touring band with another guitarist and we turned our noses up hard at backline RI Twins or Deluxes for always sounding small and unappealing compared to (my) vintage Princeton or (his) RI Magnetone. Looking back after watching TPS videos I think we just weren’t playing them loud enough or using gain properly!
Seems to be a tactile, experiential difference for the player that differentiates these amp technologies because after going through the amp mics, youtube compression, and my home speakers the sounds are all really good whether tube or digital.
Well put. Think you can get an idea of the overall voicing of different amps & models via You Tube & online demos etc, so they are still really useful. But you really need to be in a room with them to know what each are fully capable of
Overall 65 deluxe, some good sounds out of the tone master with pedals at half output, except you get more low end breakup. Where the 65 deluxe stays clean and full on the bottom end.
Kudos for doing this comparison and it seems there really are people who like the sound of the Tonemaster. I think it’s good, but I expected it to be closer in it’s high eq and presence, it did the thing that I’m noticing again and again with digital things, but I can’t quite describe. A kind of rounding off or dulling of some of those high freqs.
Glad you where convinced by DeLuxe Reverb RI. I have one and have asked a tech to put a bright cap switch On/Off cause it's sometime too bright with single coils for me. No loop, no nothing but Delay and Verb sound fine in front of it, so it's simple to use. Very dynamic amp. Was disapointed by the Verb quality of mine.
If I may give my two cents about it after owning the TM for about 18 months, they’re nice but I’ve felt that on higher than 5 volume it gets both spiky at the highs and mushy at the bottom end.
I’ve installed a Celestion Cream 12” 8ohms and it sounds so much nicer… it still has the Deluxe-ish sound but with a nicer midrange, tighter lows and more rounded highs.
I know it’s an expensive speaker, and it’s a cheaper end amp, but it really turned it into something very special. I highly recommend this.
I have a tone master, love it, love the sound; but I lose the feel if I use a digital pedal into it. I read somewhere it is entirely designed for the Neodymium speaker, probably the reason there is no output socket for an external speaker. Nice show.
PS Thorpy FX Peacekeeper into it is glorious.
In hindsight, (once Mick A/B’d the clean sound) it’s not just the mids that are out of whack. It’s night and day.
How about a “mid-hump” vs “organic/neutral” overdrive episode with the 65 DRRI? Tube Screamer, Klon and KOT vs Lightspeed, Timmy and Morning Glory! 🎸
Yes! This is bang up our alley!
@@ThatPedalShow that'd be a great show! Please include the matchless or vox in that one as people with that style amp tend to be the ones who go for 'transparent'/natural drives vs the Fender + mid boost
Snouse Blackbox and some sort of Mostortion like the Karma please!!
Don't forget the Nobles ODR-1!
Ts and bluesbreaker is all a deluxe reverb needs. And delay of course and several other things ... but let’s not get into that
Great demonstration...as usual! FWIW, I own a couple of mid 60's Fender amps and they are, in my view, hard to beat. That being said, I bought a ToneMaster Deluxe and after hooking up to my Mac and installing the first "update" I was able to get rid of the excess "treble" issue...I think the term used was "remove the bright cap" as well as the "full Reverb at 2 on the dial" problem. The amp, for my purposes at this point in time, is hard to beat and at just under 24 pounds is truly remarkable. Playing at Church with the amp mic'd is a blast...the guys and gals in the control pit make the amp sound like anything they or I want it to.
I still prefer my 1966 Super Reverb (all original except for tubes, caps, etc) to any other amp I have ever owned and or played but...65 pounds? 'Yikes! Back yard party...the '66 Dual Showman through 2 EVM12L's in a Bandmaster cabinet or the SR always get kudos. Indoor parties...the SR takes the cake but an upcoming party will be a good test for the TM. In my many years of playing I have found most guests at parties cannot tell, or care to tell, the difference in an amp...they just like to get up and dance. (Bass player and drummer are key).
Again, great demonstration, comparison and musicianship! Bravo and thanks!
I agree. The 'Blonde' firmware update made a HUGE difference. It's like a totally different amp now. I would like to know how the comparison would've been (most likely they'd have chosen the tube amp anyway) with the update. At least it would have been much harder to tell them apart. Cheers!
Life too short for a short TH-cam videos with no in depth analysis - this video comparison was perfect!
There is a firmware update for the Tonemaster. It makes it more pedalfriendly, less trebly and the reverb more manageable. I love it. The firmware update is reversible btw.
I recently purchased the blonde version with the Celestion and I think the results in a blind test might come out in favor of the Tone Master. It came with the firmware update.
I think the Tone Master sounds fine, way brighter in this demo. It would actually be the better choice in certain instances... But the actual spring sound on the real 65 is SO MUCH better.
It does sound LIKE the tube version, just not Exactly like it. If it were more affordable it would probably sell much better but it’s rather overpriced for what it is IMO
I used to have a Mustang GT100. The novelty wore off about 6 months after I bought it. It always felt like I was playing a computer model of the real thing. Even though the '65 Twin & Bassman patches were really good, I still had something nagging at my brain that it was a computer model. A few months after I bought that amp I acquired a Katana 100. The Mustang is gone. Threw a bass speaker in it and gave it to my bass player. The Katana is staying put.
Fast forward to the new Mustang GTX. I emailed a Fender rep and asked him specifically what had changed between the new amp and the GTX. Paraphrasing here: "Tweaked the models to be more efficient, refined this, adjusted that, blah blah." I was hoping they would have doubled the RAM and processor count. That would take away from the Tonemaster series if the GTX was too good.
I want to like the Tonemaster but for the price you could spend $50 more and get the Roland Blues Cube Artist. It would allow you to at some point get the Robben Ford Dumble capsule. As much as I love the DR and the Fender cleans, I know I would be happier in the long run if I bought the BCA.
Modeling is okay for some things like pedals, and I still make due with my Zoom G5n, but I'm done with modeling amps.
Checkpoint COVID I completely agree. They’ve got their place and uses, but at that price point it’s absurd IMO
@@Matt_Lanzer_13 For recording though? The Mustang GT was pretty handy. I was able to get some decent sounds recorded with it. In that regard they are pretty useful. For the money though I'll take a Blues Cube Artist.
What an amazing job you guys did. I am picking out an amp for my son's 21st birthday and it was down to between these 2 amps. Made my choice with the 65
reissue easy. Thank you!
This is the best tonemaster comparison i’ve seen until now, very accurate!