The Red Tearstone Ring is Even Stronger than you Thought!
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 5 มี.ค. 2024
- I haven't seen much on this, as a lot of places list the red tearstone ring as giving you a 1.5x damage multiplier. That is not what it does. In actuality, it multiplies the Motion Value of your attack by 1.5, which results in more than a 50% damage increase. The difference is more pronounced at low attack ratings, but even a weapon with an AR of 300 will do around 65% more damage with it active.
For reference:
RTSR Multiplies the MV of your weapon by 1.5 (e.g., 100 to 150; 134 to 201), not your damage by 50%.
Power Within does multiply your damage by 1.4.
The Dragon Torso Stone Multiplies the MV of your weapons by 1.3 at +3, not your damage by 1.35%.
More testing to come for a longer video with less text, but I wanted to get this out there ASAP. Need to test out weapons buffs (resins, magic weapon, sunlight blade, etc.), spells MVs, and critical hit MVs. - เกม
to simplify for anyone
you might expect the 25 dmg to be multiplied but that was the remaining damage after the boss's resistance was removed from the original damage. So if you are multiplying the original damage and the resistance is staying the same, it goes up far more rapidly than you would expect.
13 year old game and we STILL are trying to figure out wtf is going on lol. This is actually really cool and encouraging that there are secrets to uncover in DS. The allure is the mystery for me so that will keep me coming back
This is the very last thing to be discovered in DS1 though.
@@oonmm How would you know what we don't know?
@@colin857 It's just how it is.
@@oonmmimagine someone finds a use for the pendant 5 years later.
@@oonmmthey said the last thing discovered would be the very last too. And the one before that 😂 you’re naive if you think you’re any different
Admittedly I get lost in the fine print but I love the enthusiasm and effort behind your videos. That damage stacking is massive! Thank you for sharing with the community. Love to see Dark souls is still getting the love it deserves! Looking forward to more content!
Thanks! Yeah this isn’t the easiest watch with all the text haha, but it was too big a discovery for me not to push it out asap. I can’t find mention of it anywhere on any of the wikis. I’m trying to make the damage mechanic video easy to digest.
I've known RTSR was greater than a 50% boost for like a decade, but i never knew about motion values or the tier system. Interesting stuff!
This was very a cool demonstration, and I don't think I've ever seen its affect on MV explained either! I've had people ask me about attack and defense calculations but the math-ier stuff is where I usually back out. I'm sure I'll be linking people to your longer video anytime someone asks!
Holy cow it’s Illusory Wall! Love your vids! A comment and your video on miracle synergy really helped me get into this stuff. Fun fact, each level of synergy increases the MV of those spells by 10! There is also a variable in the game files called lightning resonance, but I haven’t been able to figure out what that is
@@trevthedev6134 Oh, that's fascinating, and wow I'm happy to hear that!
Since the lightning spells aren't buffed by resonance I wonder if it's something that was cut related to that. I'll ask around to see if anyone knows anything more about that.
@@illusorywall yeah I've been tryin to figure it out (though am doing some DS3 stuff at the moment). I do want to revisit and make a more in-depth video on Dark Souls Damage stuff, sometime soon (maybe in April). If you ask people about it that are familiar with the game parameters, the ones I'm looking at have IDs of 30000-30030 and are called 1_thunder resonance LV(2 through 5) [parent]. They are direct translations of Japanese though so not sure exactly what it refers to. My thought is maybe something to do with having a few summons in Warrior of Sunlight?
@@trevthedev6134 Hmm, interesting! Is there a good way to reach you outside of yt comments? Do you use discord? I can share my ID here and then just delete the comment afterwards if you do. :)
Tldr it does give 50% bonus dmg, pre-mitigation.
They damage calculations are done off of one number, there is no flat defense or % mitigation on a normal hit. Based on the attack rating x motion value, you get the damage of a normal hit. Your damage is compared to the enemy’s corresponding defense for that dmg type and the mitigation is based on tiers. The more dmg you do compared to the enemy’s defense, the better. Red tearstone gives pre-mitigation dmg bonus so it can boost your tier. The teirs are like reverse taxes
Power within - 40% bonus damage post mitigation
RTSR & Stone - 50% & Scaling% dmg bonus pre mitigation (able to boost tier)
Exacly this. Tested on calculator and final result matches the value seen in the video. I think it is possible to have assumed it was the motion value because if you maintain the original AR and instead add 50% to the MV the result is the same but based on the formula and what we know of the game with modding tools it is in fact adding bonus damage pre mitigation and not changing the motion value.
@@NANIKANSEIDORIFTO I could be wrong, but I thought motion value also affected damage before mitigation. It wouldn’t really matter if it upped the AR or motion value as it would be the same outside of possible rounding.
Yes, the motion value is factored into your effective AR when taking defenses into account. That's the reason high motion value moves like backstabs and ripostes will still do good damage to enemies with Def > AR. Your damage falls off a cliff if your AR can't overcome the enemy's Def but the super high motion value gets your effective AR (i.e. AR * MV/100) over the hurdle.
All these years later and people are still playing this game and making content for it. Makes my heart happy.
You are living proof that it is never too late to pop off on TH-cam. Saw a video of yours yesterday, now I'm making my way through your backlog and this pops up! Incredible content and completely unique!
Its interesting because we've known for years that its not just 50% dmg increase. I learnt that from a random dark souls video like 8 years ago. Ofcourse i had no idea about the motion value stuff or anything like that, but, anyone who has used it will notice it more than doubles your damage. i just assumed it was double dipping somewhere. I also thought it affected sorceries to a greater degree, clearly doubling or maybe even tripling damage. My theory was that it multiplied the magadjust of the catalyst, as well as multiplying the final damage (double dipping as i said before) i would be EXTREMELY interested to know how it is actually affecting sorceries. Great video keep up the investigation ❤
DS1 has to be the game with the most broken gear and interactions, i still remember how trivial the Black Knight Sword made my first playthrough
Exactly, you either deal 12 damage or over 500 damage
Ds1 will always be my favorite to return to, but ds2 had some absolutely insane stuff that you could set up for pvp. The set ups you could pull off were crazy
I'll never forget upgrading a raw claymore to max, getting the achievement, and then getting a BKS to drop and it's base damage was equal to my maxed out weapon AND it scaled (I had no clue about scaling so I thought I had hit the jackpot)
What about Demon's Souls in hypermode (Clever Rat Ring and Morian Blade)? I remember I was oneshotting Bosses with Firestorm KEKW
I really appreciate your content, it helps me sleep at night.
Absolutely mind blowing how this game is still having new mechanics being discovered.
congrats on the find. Great stuff!!
I appreciate these little educational videos thank you.
I love stuff like this. Great content bro!
Dark souls 1 code is scary...
Great video!
I did notice some oddities with the numbers from RTSR before but didnt think about the Motion Values being multiplied
Very neat
Definitely interested in any spell testing as well, damage from the specific buffs for those I think are also likely MV based
super interesting video bro!
You are describing this as more complicated than it actually is.
In Souls there are two types of damage buffs:
1) “Damage” buffs
2) “Attack” buffs
“Damage” refers to number you get AFTER calculating Defense. “Attack” refers to number you input into defense formula.
It isn’t technically increasing Motion Value it’s increasing the raw damage number listed on weapon (although mathematically this is identical to increasing the MV).
Dragon Stone works the same way, it’s an “attack” buff, not a “damage” buff, but Power Within is a “damage” buff, meaning it applies to the result of ATK vs DEF, not the ATK itself.
This definitely isn’t a new discovery, everyone knew RTSR worked like this. You just described it differently than everyone else.
This same system of “attack” buffs and “damage” buffs is used in all the games, up to Elden Ring. In ER almost everything is a damage buff, but there are a rare few that are “attack” buffs.
Note: the labeling of “attack” vs “damage” is community named, the actual in-game descriptions probably don’t let you clarify what it’s going to do.
True on the part about raw damage versus motion values - I’ve had motion values on the brain for the past week.
To your second point however, I couldn’t really find much of a distinction between how most of the dark souls wikis and other places make distinctions between how they actually work. They state that ‘damage’ is boosted, not your direct attack which does make a large difference.
Fwiw, I had 0 clue that this was how it worked contrary to your statement that everyone knew this was how it works.
Actually thinking about it I’m 90% sure it is actually multiplying the motion value, not the attack rating. I’m pretty sure this is the case due to the presence of firebombs, as they do not receive a buff when using the RTSR and they do flat fire damage without an MV attached. Either way it doesn’t really make a difference in 99% of cases.
@@trevthedev6134 the wiki’s are pretty garbage unfortunately, full of wrong info and at best, extremely casual explanations. The good stuff is not really centralised, it’s in forum posts, smaller communities etc…
But people who care about exact numbers (rather than just: “damage go up”) definitely knew how it worked. I’ve personally seen multiple challenge run videos or speed run videos where they explain that RTSR is actually better than it looks like it should be.
As for Fire Bombs, consumables are weird since they don’t get boosted by anything. Neither damage nor Attack buffs. They’re just excluded from receiving any kind of damage increase in DaS1. That eventually got changed in later games.
I’ll quickly test to see how Blue Dancer charm works with throwing knives in Elden Ring. Won’t say how DaS1 handles it, but will say whether or not Attack buffs affect base AR or MV in Elden Ring, and I can’t imagine them changing that since they left formula exactky as is in every other respect (outside of adding Negation, but nehation is just a negative Damage buff).
@@trevthedev6134 The statement "without an MV attached" is questionable. The attacks for firebombs (1052-1054) do have them, they're just 100 and thus irrelevant.
As long as we ignore tumblebuffing and focus only on one damage type, the Damage calculation process consists of two or three products (depending on where we choose to make a break).
1. Product: We derive AR as a product of the weapon's base AR, weapon upgrade multipliers and a modifier (dependent on scaling, weapon upgrade and stats).
2. Product: We derive Modified AR as a product of AR with Motion Values and some pre-Calc modifiers, including, as you say, RTSR, but also trident buff, magic buffs etc.
3. Product: We derive Damage as a product of Modified AR with some post-Calc buffs, like Power-Within and Counters, as well as the Damage Helper factor (a function of the Ratio of Modified AR / Opponent's Defence; An explanation of its structure is on my channel).
You can see the difference between types of buffs clearly in their parameters (like here under Special Effects docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1KukblWL61We64-gNIyaAShga9h8RTXYmyFs98eQhY4E/edit?usp=sharing).
Finally, I thank the advise for the sorry state of RTSR's wikidot page.
@@zokya6822 yeah saying it’s without and MV maybe isn’t the best way to put it, but I’m almost positive that the damage is just calculated as damaged with without taking into account the MV. I’d be interested in if we changed the MV to something higher like 200 to see if the damage stays the same (which is my suspicion). Either way it’s surprising that with how dissected this game is, some of the ‘simpler’ stuff like the correct damage correction for rtsr is still wrong in a lot of places.
So what I think could be happening here is the surpassing of flat resistances of enemies with the rtsr. Which is resulting in an observed damage increase that is much higher than expected.
Then of course the buffs stack multiplicative with eachother.
Motion values? We monster hunter now
Yeah! Exact same mechanic, actually: motion value is just a percent multiplier on base damage when doing a certain attack motion
For simplicity, you can approximate the third and fourth branches of the piecewise function with the following lines:
0.9*AR - 0.5 DEF for 1
Honestly, comparing these two graphs, your version should simply have been the formula the game uses! no weird hump at 5/2 where the left side of the graph becomes almost flat and then suddenly spikes again, which is an absolutely horrible false lead of early diminishing returns if you happen to fall into it while trying to test stuff out! The left- and right-hand derivatives of your formula are still not the same at AR/DEF=5/2, but they're at least 2/25 and 3/25 compared to the game's 0 and 4/55.
@@droid-droidsson I actually disagree. The non-constant derivatives of the true branches when coupled with non-constant gains in a stat per level before soft-caps are even considered allows for some nuance when finely crafting your build.
FromSoft COULD have done this as evidenced by the first branch below AR/DEF
@@zelda12346 predictability is necessary for any "nuanced" build, prior to datamining of the damage formula, testing how stat changes and weapon upgrades and infusions, etc. impact your actual ability to fight enemies was pure tedium, and hardly anyone managed to figure out more than "well, just add about this many stats to your build, then it's probably going to be okay, and also RTSR is busted".
Complexity is not a virtue, depth makes game systems interesting, but complexity makes them clunky and unintuitive. As much success as Dark Souls had in going against the "modern design principles" of the time even at the risk of being jank, I don't think adding more complexity without adding more depth does anything noteworthy or interesting here.
Idk why but I expected to not be impressed. However, this is really great info! crazy how you can get +200% damage from just a couple buffs on a weapon with a higher motion value. I don't think even Illusory Wall figured this out back in the day of his DS1 videos.
My initial suspicion was that damage was calculated using something similar damage thresholds from Fallout NV, where 50 attack against a 40 defence for deals 10 damage, and increasing attack by 20% boosts it to 60 atk so against a 40 def opponent is deals 20 damage, which is twice the original. This isn't the case but it helped me figure out how to make the best use of the equipment I had, I figured it was a more complicated formula than what I could gather just from playing. so it's nice to see it here displayed clearly, thank you
awesome find
I’m surprised everyone missed this. It’s so easy to see that it’s not a +50% flat boost
In my defense, everyone (including the wikis) states (falsely) it's 50% damage. I'm surprised that so many challenge runners and wiki authors (and myself) have apparently just never bothered to check!
Anyone doing SL1 knows that just by feeling. Also, its probably the same thing in demons souls. You stack the clever rat ring(RTSR) with the morion blade and you get massive attack boost, hence the "hypermode" name.
the wikis are wrong about so much stuff lol
The wikis are often wrong but also most people kinda stop thinking about their damage numbers after a while and certainly aren't pulling out a calculator to figure out the ratio with and without the buff against the same monster.
Use DSR Gadget. Has a better invincibility and also you can have inf poise
I’ll check it out! Need to do some testing with a nondemon type boss so that would be helpful.
@@trevthedev6134I was about to recommend this
gadget has tons of useful features, you can turn off dying, you can turn off enemy AI so you can just pummel them without them attacking you, you might even be able to make enemies invincible, also you can spawn any item you want in your inventory, and save and reload your position/state anywhere
Thanks for an interesting video. After playing SL1 with RTSR it did seem like it was more than a 1.5 multiplier sometimes. Have you tested how these apply for spells?
So just a couple things I wanted to clarify, when the game rounds decimals it only rounds up when the tenths place is 9 like with the Astora's Straight Sword correct? Also I'd love to see a video on how defense works in PVP because I've seen a lot of conflicting information online as to whether it's different or not and I don't exactly have anyone to play DS1 with. Amazing content I'm so glad I stumbled onto your channel a couple days ago I can't wait for that video this weekend! I genuinely love how deep you dive into DS1 mechanics and make it so digestible and easy to understand, thanks for your hard work.
Well tbh I don’t think those damage formulae are 100% accurate, but I would imagine it rounds down if it does. I’ll try to include some pvp stuff if I can swing it in my next video.
Damage formulas should be consistent for PVP as well, upgraded armor is insanely busted for low level PVP because you simply don’t take damage.
I’m not certain but I think it will always round down on the damage numbers it shows. At least it does for a good ways above five when normally that would be rounded up.
Absolute gigchad (Giant Chad Dad)
it is 50% more attack, before defense.
Just to make it clear, multiplying the motion value by 1.5 and giving a 50% damage increase IS the exact same thing. It's just that you have to take defense into account, as it increases the damage BEFORE defense is applied, which by the way, is how almost every damage increase in the game works.
This video is correct in what it says about the increase being bigger than 50%, but that's not a Tearstone Ring thing, that applies to basically every buff.
The important thing here is that these damage buffs are all multiplicative, but the way defense reduces damage is NOT, defenses uses an entirely different (and honestly overcomplicated) formula that makes the reduction less effective the higher the damage is. Basically, the bigger the hit, the less effect defense makes. Which is why the buffs work so well on weaker weapons, since they're usually affected too harshlu by defense. It's also why a low weapon has such an extreme damage fall off on higher level enemies.
Oh nice I can make bows viable with this.
Kinda crazy this was figured out so long after game release. I wonder if this is going to affect one shot challenges in any way, given that this calculations completely change final damage values for some weapons that might not have been considered otherwise.
Hmm probably not as even without knowing the actual number behind it, I think most people that do oneshot builds are pretty tuned into how they ‘feel’ if you will. Plus there isn’t really that much variability in oneshot runs in Dark Souls. Rtsr + power within + pyromancy / sorcery haha
Time to one shot all bosses
Interesting find! Btw, what armor set is that?
I think it the black leather set? It’s one of the better looking ones imo.
Please test if the blue tearstone ring proccs before getting hit, I could swear to god it prevents one shots
I know you most likely won’t believe me because I don’t have a source but I am certain I have seen someone talk about this in a low view playthrough of the game w the goal of one shotting. This is the second time I’ve seen the motion value statement
Yeah it’s probably not ‘unknown’ if you will but I couldn’t really find much about how it actually worked in practice. I definitely do believe you though, im pretty sure people have done sl1 oneshots before.
Nice
You should test with strength based weapons alongside dex based or crafted weapons and see if there’s any flat boost to skill damage scaling
Works the same way in demon's souls as well
Hello! I think i see. So this seems like an unintentional feature, as most games used to multiply the damage before the hit calculation, not after it. It seems exploitable too. The other reason it seems like a game bug is that for all three items the damage before the hit calculation is expected to be multiplied consistently before the hit calculation, but it is not the case as you have shown it.
what if you add sunglight blade/moonlight blade/crystal blade to the dagger? And Leo ring xD
Of course they couldn't have made the damage calculating simple, maybe I'm just not thinking of something but I don't really understand the point of motion values. I remember testing a chaos rapier and a chaos dagger on pontiff sulyvahn and despite them both having a 130 crit and the rapier having a high ar, the dagger did significantly more damage. Is this just extra balancing? I don't see why rapiers should do much less crit damage than daggers. Of course this is just one example but I wish they just didn't make it so convoluted
Yeah it’s weird. I totally get not giving everything to the player but some of this stuff is wild. I think a great example is the Black Knight Greataxe versus Balder Side Sword. I think with something like 32 strength / 40 decent, a one hand R1 from the axe does like 80% of an R2 from the BSS despite the axe having an AR almost 200 points higher. Thanks for the suggestion a few weeks ago btw, this stuff has really burrowed into me over the past week haha.
I can't speak for the devs obviously, but I feel like it makes the math on weapons less obvious to incentivise trying other weapons out in lieu of just playing the number game. Focusing on moveset and secondary abilities. For your example, if the math "made sense" there'd be no value of the dagger within the game other than flavoring your character or giving you another moveset with worse numbers and range all around. I noticed the same pattern in pokemon, despite having a very simple premise and atk/def system at face value, the math behind it, even in the early days, is ridiulous algebra with multiple unseen values and mechanics. It's not a great solution, especially for the data sleuthing players who enjoy mathing out the damage they can do but I respect the value it gives to otherwise overlookable options.
from a coding perspective its just a really easy way to do things when one weapon has multiple moves. instead of doing something ridiculous like multiplying the AR of your weapon for a 2H R2, and then dividing it back down to it's original value for a 1H R1, its easier to just say "if the player is doing this move, multiply the damage this hit is gonna do by X"
It's not the whole reason but a part of why it is so convoluted is to prevent other developers from stealing their work. Fromsoft developers worked hard on making the game and they don't want their ideas or work stolen or copied, so they make it very hard to replicate their systems.
Motion value is just a multiplier to the attack rating of a weapon. 2 handing most things gives ~1.2 motion value on r1 so 2 handing tends to be best.
Defense could’ve been made simple like just being flat and subtracting the def from the dmg, not letting it reduce under a certain %. That also would’ve made split dmg even worse and small weapons would get out scaled. It’s done for balance, defense just reduces dmg by a portion. The portion reduced is lessened at higher attack but is still applied so dmg doesn’t go to crazy, and at lower amounts of damage it lets more through than a flat reduction would. It’s like a sound equalizer for damage. Ds3 I think had flat dmg reduction called defense and % reduction called absorption. I like the ds1 system better but the math is a pain with how they wrote it.
Yeah we known this for a long while now, it's just not stated on the wikies (which most are pretty unreliable, wikidot being the most reliable but still flawed). But actual players have known this for years
That’s fair, but I (and I don’t think a lot of people) know about this as the wikis are kind of the go-to for backend stuff. I myself didn’t know exactly how it worked until I tested it and I’ve platinumed everything but Bloodborne and Sekiro haha
hi metal head, seee you're also here LMAO
Does that mean we can one hit 4 kings ?
meaty jesus didnt do it already?
cool vid
so if i got it right, one can evaluate the higher motion value of a weapon and add this factor into the equation to reach higher damage output?
Basically. The best way to think about it is it’s probably closer to a 60-65% damage output. As someone else pointed out you could just multiply the AR number by 50% instead of the Motion Value, but without knowing how the damage formula works it isn’t intuitive. Basically just watch damage go brrr at low health!
I always called them “move multipliers” instead of motion value
Yeah I’m just borrowing verbiage I’ve heard before. Technically in the game files they are called corrections
I was long under the impression that damage bonuses increased your actual attack power before defense, and damage was (ATK*BUF)-DEF.
So was I! Which, IMO, would make more sense.
On wikidot (the only reliable wiki) it says it can even go up to 150% and 50% is the bare minimum increase
It actually can go even higher - if you look at the first test with the dagger it’s like 270%. Though as you climb into higher ARs the percentage drops.
@@trevthedev6134 wow thats insane boost, it makes sense though considering how much quicker you can tear through bosses with it on.
hornet ring takes the 2.0 motion value and adds 30 percent. So it becomes 2.6 motion value. add rtsr 1.5x2.6= 3.9 motion value. multiply dragon buff 3.9*1.3=5.07 motion value. add the power within 40 percent buff, 709% of the weapon ar damage. Can do all the same sht on enemies without a back stab. Jumping 2h is 1.55*1.3*1.5, 423% damage of weapon Ar. So i guess if you have 650 ar fire great club, it would do like 1300 fire and 1300 phys damage on a jumping r2
TBH, in all DSouls Series the rings RED and BLUE Tearstone Ring Builds are the most powerful. I don't need the exact math for it but, but I know, the Red Tearstone Ring is crucial for attaining the most powerful one-shot builds. FromSoft and Miyazaki's ultimate reward for those who can master the game - meaning, playing without getting damage.
Is this working like that in both the original Prepare to Die and Remastered?
I don’t have PTD so I can’t say for sure, but I would imagine it does? I know the Hornet ring was changed at some point, but I would be surprised if the rtsr was.
What about the Channeler's Trident?
Iirc that is basically like power within; it buffs damage after it’s calculated as opposed to buffing attack (like the rtsr). Can’t use it on yourself however unfortunately
I try to Cheese it with the 2 Aggro Reduce Rings... Ring of Fog made Blighttown a Breeze.. Now in Sen's FuckMe getting the Second... Aim: Killing Ornstein & Smaugh with them noticing me.... 🤷♀️
Why would 25 damage dealt turn into 38 when you increase your ar by 50%?
It's not final damage multiplier it's an ar multiplier
ar(attack rating)
Correct. I thought it was a damage multiplier - places don’t really spell out what that means.
I know I've already had motion value explained to me before, but it's not an intuitive enough concept to bring up here without explaining it tbh. left this video still confused
Don't fret! I will be going over that in an upcoming video!
Died to asylum demon💀😂
Just found your channel love the content bro keep it up
Lol
Cool but what is motion value?
Motion value is a multiplier of damage. 100 mv is x1 damage, 150 mv would be x1.5. plunging attacks on taurus demon for example is a motion value of 400, or 4x damage.
Hoping to include that as part of an upcoming video, but it’s basically a hidden weapon multiplier depending on which attack you use. Most one handed light attacks have an MV of 100 (so your damage is multiplied by 100/100 or 1), while most two handed light attacks have an MV of 120, so your damage is multiplied by 120/100 (1.2). That’s why even a dex focused weapon tends to do more damage when two handing.
Dark souls is getting weirder even after 13 years, how the hell this game works 🤣
What is a motion value
It’s effectively a hidden damage multiplier for your weapon that is based on the type of attack you use (light (r1) or heavy (r2)) and if you are onehanding or two handing your weapon. For most one handed light attacks, your Attack Rating is the number used on the damage formula, but for most two handed light attacks, a motion value of 120 is used, so your attack rating is multiplied by 1.2x.
It’s a similar to the critical rating the game shows you but you’ll never know exactly what it is unless you know where to find in the the game parameter files.
Red tearstone plus power within sounds not too good of a plan, but hell that damage stacking! ;-)
more than a decade late, you are so smart
why are you not dual wielding ? then you will deal doubble damage, you dont need to hold your spell in your other hand, buff and then dual wield
Hmm not sure what you mean? This is mostly a test of the ring damage buff, not anything beyond that. Dual wielding isn’t really a thing in Dark Souls 1 fwiw
dual wielding does more damage, in basicly all souls games bro, you should know that@@trevthedev6134
Oh I think you are referring to two-handing a weapon, not dual wielding. I gotcha. No you are right it does more damage but that wasn’t really what I was focused on here.
this isnt really new information, pretty sure most sl1 runners know this
yeah, i'm not seeing anything new here, just you being like 8 years late to the party, you're looking at it and wondering why it's not just added on at the end, when it's just that you're doing your math wrong and thinking it should be added on after the damage bracket has been decided, which simply isn't the case, it's done beforehand
Ehh that's fair, but I think there are people out there who don't really understand it (myself included before getting into some of the math). Not criticizing any of the popular wikis, but they don't do a great job of explaining what the difference between an attack buff and damage buff.
This isnt.... new and your calculations are off.
RTSR is calculated 50% or 1.5 of the AR. Functionally you multiply this by the MV. Since Dagger MV is 100 that means 100% * 150% is 150. Muliplied that pre-damage calculations and you get 68 dmg.
Then PW is multiplied 40% or 1.4 AFTER damage. Which would mean 68 dmg from RTSR * 1.4 = 96 dmg which is what you get.
Dragon Buff is multiplied into the MV. So Dragon Buff is 100 MV * 150 RTSR * 125 or 130 Dragonbuff pending covenant upgrade. With PW calculating after defenses of all those calculations.
TL;DR PW isnt a motion value because it doesnt calculate pre-defenses. Its a post defense calculation as indicative of the words damage on the wiki.
Not sure what you mean? The number in you and I have are the exact same? Unless I made a typo in the text which is totally possible as I did this in like 20 minutes last night.
@@trevthedev6134 I didnt see your final line and only saw the second to final not sure how I missed your final line. Either way though, wikidot is accurate in how RTSR works and PW works based on the knowledge that damage is defined as post defense calcs while attack is defined as pre defense calc. I also saw in another comment someone discussed how this information is in smaller communities when in the Dark Souls Discord this knowledge is widely available and if you are in that server and want more information like this feel free to @ me there.
Tbh rings in souls games are borderline useless, the bonus they give is too small to make any actually meaninful difference. Same with armors
Rings were weakened beyond DS1 because you could have 4 of them. Rings in DS1 are far from borderline useless.
Cloranthy Ring, FaP, Havel's, Wolf, Hornet, Leo, the Stoneplates are useful in general. Poisonbite and Rusted Iron Ring are fantastic for Blighttown. Sorcery and Miracle builds like to have Bellowing Dragoncrest and Sun's Firstborn. Dusk Crown ring is great for glass cannon sorcerers. What are you on about?
@@_Crowuh Ok, I don't know how they are in DS1 . I just assumed they suck in DS1 too since they suck in DS3 and ER. My bad
5:55
Very bad wording. It does not "multiply" by 50%. It "increases" by 50% or "multiplies" by 1.5 (150%).
If it multiplied by 50%, it would be a debuff, as the motion value would be cut in half.
Ehh I think people understand what it means. I see your point but this is how I would refer to it when talking with people irl
@@trevthedev6134
Seriously? You would word it like that while talking to people? Never heard anyone talk like that, multiply by 50% is just wrong and sounds obviously wrong as well, people usually say increase by 50% irl in my experience.
You do you man, and obviously this one isn't a big deal, but just you brushing it off is not the sign of someone who's willing to improve. I don't know you and I won't start some pseudo psychoanalysis here don't worry lol.
Just saying that when you say something objectively wrong and viewers notice, the way towards improvement and becoming a more successful content creator would be to try and change that wording in your habits.
All the best mate.
25*1.5=37.5, not 50. I honestly don't know how a 50% increase could ever get you to 50. That's a 100% increase, so you'd have 25*2.
woah, I had no idea!
Cant play DS1 without duplicating souls 😎😈