Junk Volume: Why You Must Avoid It For Max Muscle
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 30 ก.ย. 2024
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In this video I'm covering the 3 most common types of junk volume. How many sets should you do per workout to maximize muscle growth? What is the threshold for effective volume per-session? How hard should you train to ensure that your workout volume isn't "junk"?
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References:
James Krieger Meta-analysis:
weightology.ne...
Training Frequency Study:
pubmed.ncbi.nl...
Easy Sets Study:
pubmed.ncbi.nl...
High Rep Sets Study:
www.massmember...
pubmed.ncbi.nl...
Music:
Bankrupt Beats:
• Video
Filmed by Big 3 Media:
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Edited by Jeff Nippard using Final Cut Pro
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About me: I'm a Canadian natural pro bodybuilder and internationally-qualified powerlifter with a BSc in biochemistry/chemistry and a passion for science. I've been training for 12 years drug-free. I'm 5'5 and fluctuate between 160 lbs (lean) and 180 lbs (bulked).
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Disclaimers: Jeff Nippard is not a doctor or a medical professional. Always consult a physician before starting any exercise program. Use of this information is strictly at your own risk. Jeff Nippard will not assume any liability for direct or indirect losses or damages that may result from the use of information contained in this video including but not limited to economic loss, injury, illness or death.
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I'd love to know how this principle works with the secondary muscles worked by compound movements. For example, does a hard set of pull-ups count as a hard set for biceps? What about lat pull-down? Seems like a big grey area to me.
Very nice question! Was about to ask the same...
yea cause with that logic my ticeps on my upper days on compound alone would equal 15 sets, assuming they are secondary movers it does not have the same affect
Not a hard set but it still counts. Dr mike isratael from juggernaut periodization would be the go to guy for that kind of info.
Thatd be a good video for jeff to make
I believe bicep activation with back movements to mainly be a form flaw; where you extend your arms all of the way on a rowing exercise instead of keeping your elbow(s) bent throughout the entire movement, as an example. This allows for a better contraction for your back.
If I close my eyes, Ben Shapiro is telling me my workout is trash.
I will never un-hear that...
You need to play it at 1.25x speed.
That's the first thing I was going to say.
I think anyone watching this has better workout habits than him
@@JohnSmith-wv5km and why exactly do you think that?
I still cant believe how good jeff is at holding presentations. He basically does minimized bachelore thesis in almost each of his videos.
Lol that's the best way to describe his videos ! He works hard to make his content and I respect that a lot .
I actually learned how to package information to be presentable in his videos, besides the fitness stuff of course.
@@infensus87 yess!! I used his style on a student lecture about RSVP (graphic design based info lecture about reading words that appear fast one by one)
Also added some interactive stuff -
And my prof liked it so much he still keeps mentioning it whenever i have a presentstion
Thanks jeff :D
He's (Jeff) is one of those people who critiques him self and strives to do better which results in good output that keeps on improving, where as many influencers are out there for an 'aim' that is souced outside of them selves, that is to gain money, hence why they lack the same quality.
Basically, whenever one does something to satisfy themselves for themselves they bring out quality, but when someone does something for someone elses accolade (money is an 'outside' benefit) they usualy miss that quality.
So do what you love people.
I wouldn't go as far as comparing it to a bachelor's thesis, more like a short scientific review you'd have to do for a seminar.
But yes, his presentation style is awesome!
Great video! The visuals and graphs helped illustrate this topic particularly well for me.
omg it's juji
yh that defo came in cutch because ik ur thicc :)
What if in the end sets you increase weight?
There is a very easy hack around this. Who says you have to do all your volume in one go. 3 sets of chest incline followed by 3 sets high rows then go back and do flat chest. by interweaving groups of sets you can get away with way way more than you think and lactic acid wont build up so easy
I agree with this comment
As a scientist who regularly deals with scientific papers I must say that Jeff´s ability to interpret such papers and especially putting them into the bigger scope is exceptionally impressive!
What field are you?
@@ricky5369 clinical pharmacy
I’m something of a scientist myself.
Me too a scientist and look better than Jeffrey lol 😆
shut up
Extremely valuable video. Thank you.
I farm for a living which is very physically demanding. When I work out, I want to be as efficient as possible in my results so I'm not burning myself out for my work.
Videos like this really help
thanks for feeding the world 🌍 and your hard work
it means 6 8 sets per week is enough for triceps shoulders biceps and chest right ?
@@evodota No, per workout sessions. It's recommended to aim for at least 10 sets per WEEK (up to 20 sets)but not more than 6-8 per SESSION.
Dr. Krieger is such a boss. I literally was sending some of his research to an excercise phys colleague last week as she prepped for a lecture about optimal sets for resistance training. Thanks for making such high quality knowledge available in video format Jeff.
People in prison do a lot of "junk volume" and still manage to grow big time.
90% fitness content on TH-cam is BS.
Check my list, i followed and learned a lot from both of Dr.Jacob and Jeff
Love your vids, helping me continue to learn and progress to achieving my Uksca here in the UK!! 🏅
@@mihailhidler5400 video never said junk volume will prevent gains, it’s just about how junk volume is useless and you’re spending way too much time on things which won’t help you, thus slowing your overall gains in the long term.
@@mihailhidler5400 Men naturally produce more testosterone in prison to defend thier holes
Excellent video! I think lots of people have a junk volume problem and we should all be trying to optimise our programming in order to make all our sets as effective as possible. Also I think someone's junk volume could change with time. For example when they are novices perhaps 2 sets per body part is plenty to get them growing muscle, however as you get more advanced or even elite, you will have to add more sets in order to accumulate more tonnage to keep progressing.
quite the opposite actually, as you get more advanced you need less volume as you are able to make each set more effective
@@ArgonEygovsson I don't think that's the case mate. Someone who has been training naturally for 10 years can't just decrease their volume and keep progressing. That doesn't make much sense. That's why novice programs are usually very basic whereas intermediate and advanced programs will usually push the lifter much more.
A problem with the studies above is that they are all characterized by very low numbers of participants, relative to how large of an effect one can expect different training volumes to yield. Had the number of participants in the studies been higher, we could have possibly been able to discern more differences between different approaches.
Low numbers of participants in the individual studies increase the need to meta-analyze the results. That is, to combine the results from all similar studies into one pool. But then we have the problem of heterogeneity: it is difficult to compare studies with such different approaches in terms of exercise choices and training sessions per week.
If we work ourselves from the bottom up, it looks fairly clear that about 10 sets taken to failure per muscle and week give greater strength increases and muscle growth than less training. This is mainly based on research on previously untrained participants.
If we look at trained participants, it seems possible that a training volume upwards of 15-20 sets to failure per muscle and week can give a slightly better result, at least if the training is divided into at least two sessions per week. In my personal experience, I also seem to have seen that a training volume upwards of 15-20 sets to failure per muscle and week can yield additional gains for someone who has previously mostly done around 10 sets to failure per muscle and week.
For some people, even more sets than that can probably be beneficial, at least during certain time periods, but then we are probably starting to talk about special cases rather than general cases. Note that, for example, a high-level bodybuilder or powerlifter may very well be a special case.
@@ArgonEygovsson argon is right you guys are all really dumb. I got my money on him for making the most gains..smart lad provided u lot are natural
@@ArgonEygovsson no, I think you need more, but not more like a guy on roids can do more. Muscles become used to the workload, so I assume a newb peaks at 6 sets and an advanced trainer probably 10. The guy on roids can do 14 and still recover.
I had a friend that always complained that no matter how much protein and surplus he had & how often he worked out he couldn’t put on more muscle. He was lean and a bit muscular but could never put on noticeable muscle… one day we did a “I’ll train one day with you and you train one day with me.” So it was his turn first to workout with me and workout the way I do. Mind you he’s about 4 inches taller than me and normally stronger.
So I started & showed him the routine for the day and my work out philosophy and mentality. Predominantly, low reps high weight.
So for example, our first workout was bench press. I did 10, 8, 5, 3 reps (sometime most of y’all might already consider too high volume). With 10 being a decent challenge weight, let’s say 50lbs (yes I am completely weak in the chest), then by the 5 rep weight I would be doing 75lbs, something that for me already required a spotter. And for the final set, 3 reps of 80lbs which was literally almost my max, I’m talking like barely being able to actually do it. So you feel me? That sort of workout where you can actually feel your muscles sore and like they’re torn up. Constantly doing reps close to your max. This system really works for me, and I notice very fast and good results from it.
So it was his turn to do the bench, and I told him “make sure that you use a weight where 10 reps ends up being a decent challenge, 8 you increase the weight a little more, 5 is a hard challenge, like you might not finish it. And 3 reps of a weight that you can barely do.” Dude was like “yea yea,” and proceeded to do the same weights I did with so much ease that he did like 15 reps, then 15 more, then 10, and 10 :| so we moved on and all throughout the workout I kept telling him that it seemed he was going too light and to increase the weight more and he kept on bitching and telling me no.
We finished and he was like “that’s it??? This is so easy man” meanwhile I’m there feeling all the muscles we worked on about to rip and tear :|
A week later it was my turn to workout out with him. Needless to say, we did like 40 more minutes of cardio than what I normally do. Then we “hit the weights.” We started with bicep curls, and he was like “alright dude let’s do 50 curls…” and he preceded to grab the 15lbs when I know for a fact that his one rep max for a curl is at least at 50lbs :| and like he wouldn’t rest either, it’s like his rest from doing curls was dips, like you feel me?
By the end of his workout routine I felt tired ye, and sore but it wasn’t the same soreness. My soreness was over literally like 6 hours later, whereas the soreness from my workouts usually last 2-3 days depending on how close to failure or my one rep max I’m getting to.
I was like, yo no wonder this dude can’t put on weight or get stronger, he just trains light weights for insanely high volume and never gets close to actual challenging weight.
He never understood this, no matter how I tried to explain it or how many TH-cam videos like these I showed him.
To this day he still workouts out like 2 hours daily, diets severely (I’m talking, any surplus calories must come from greens & proteins, almost no fats not even healthy ones, and no bad carbs, dude literally takes the bread off his burgers… no he’s not gluten intolerant), prioritises high volume as opposed to high weight, and still bitches about not getting bigger or any stronger 🤷🏻♂️
Insanity is doing the same thing over and over again, expecting things to change.
Besides that, he's doing heavy cardio before weights, he's most likely held back by the interference effect, and doing so many reps with small weights is more of an endurance exercise than anything. No wonder he has no gains.
make sure to warm up before and stretch after working out that will help with soreness
he's too far gone. may the gainz godz help that lad.
Is he still stronger than you despite being much taller?
I know this is an old comment but you’ve got the right idea man, some people will just never understand progressive overload and take low reps, high weight for hypertrophy way too far and miss out on the hypertrophy. Curious to see how much stronger you are now and if you’ve closed that gap with your friend. Maybe once you do he’ll figure it out.
Basically an 8 hour arm workout
That's called "edging"
Yea
That’s for people who take steroids natty people don’t need that
The info. The explanation. The organization. The literature review. The video editing.
Jeff's videos are better than what the online fitness community deserves.
Reading this dissolved my white matter tracts
heres a question then. lets say you're lifting with form and getting 6-10 rep but if you muscle it, you can rep out 16-20. BUT, if you increase weight, with form you cannot do 6-10. What's better. form 6-10 with Progressive OL, rep out volume, break plateau with heavy weight, or increase weight and rep out a viscious 6-10 with bad form?
@@christopherdoiron4294 I think it would depend on your stimulus-to-fatigue ratio, which would differ from person to person. When you life in the 6-10 rep range vs the 15-20 rep range, do you feel it more in the target muscle, or are you just entirely exhausted after the set? For some people, lifting in a certain rep range is just more exhausting and less stimulative to the target muscle than in another rep range.
At the end of the set when you come close to failure, does your target muscle feel fried, or do you just feel like you were surviving the whole time?
@@steveloge8119 I think this is why I also like Ryan's videos because he focuses on that connection over all else, volume or intensity, he wants the target obliterated. Thank you
it means 6 8 sets per week is enough for triceps shoulders biceps and chest right ?
Would love to see a breakdown video on warm up sets. Specifically how many sets to do, how heavy each set should be, etc
Me too
I think it ultimately depends on the program. For me, I'm running nSuns 4 day LP and it has you doing a top set amrap of squat, bench, deadlift every week. Each compound movement has a total of 9 sets but is usually in the 3-5 rep range, rather than the 8-12 because it is a strength/ powerlifting program. That being said for warm ups I typically do 2-3 warm up sets before that. So, often times I gotta do 12 sets of squats. For me, my warmups are less than the first set weight. For instance, if my first set is 140 kg/ ~315 lbs then I would warm up with the bar, 60kg/ ~135 lbs, and 100 kg/ ~225 lbs. Then I would put on knee sleeves, wrist wraps, chalk, and a lever belt for the working sets. To clarify, the warm ups are without any equipment.
If Im not mistaken, he has elaborated on a warm up sets in the recent _push pull legs 2022_ video for the squats and bench.
This is so individual, just try what works best for you
The answer is whenever you feel warm. Different from everyone different every session don’t complicate it just go by how you feel 👍🏻
Damn. 6 sets sounds like almost nothing. Very good to know though.
I think another struggle that I and other gym rats struggle with is that we enjoy working out. Lifting is the favorite part of my day so why wouldn't I want longer workouts? Long hard workouts are very enjoyable too, at times, and it feels good to make a hard workout for yourself then succeed
i feel you, what I do is instead of pushing my self to do the same exercise excessive times, I just cut my losses and try to go and do as many different exercises
Just don't do a bro splits. Do upper lower. 6 sets of chest, back, shoulders and arms in a workout is tough and takes a while.
that's per day session workout
@@WhopperCheeseDota 6 sets in total for upper body? What
@@sondersonics7534 each body part
Thanks for these ultra valuable videos. Just as a side note: the "easy sets" only becomes a problem if one does not have a working progression scheme. Else, easy sets only happen temporarily until one has increased the weight / reps / sets until the exercise becomes challenging again.
0
8😊 0:23 0:23
I do 3-10 sets of vertical pulls per day. Usually 3-5 weighted during a lifting session and the rest unweighted throughout the day. Idk if it's junk volume but I'm getting pretty good at vertical pulls 😄
It really depends on what you want to train. For hypertrophy, you'd definitely better off with more rest, less sets and probably some more resistance. If you only wanna get better at the skill itself you're basically training your myoneural connection and your central nervous system go get better at the skill itself.
I'm an aerial artist so I know a thing or two about practicing skills and from my experience, you'd still be better off with more rest for that as well. With that amount of volume you're also making it likely that you might get injured since your system is newer fully recovered
All training is good training
This is actually what I needed, I want to increase my jiu jitsu and wrestling training to 5 times a week and strength and conditioning training 3 times a week, so this will really help keeping myself from over fatigueing. It is almost suspicuous how coincidental this video is
awesome! for how long are you doing jiu jitsu already?
I'd be interested too, because sounds like a lot of load to recover from
@@strider5474 yess
It's amazing how barebones those studies are. They always come up with some golden rule based off pretty much anything consistent.
That is it bro: do 6 sets per muscle per day.
Here is the list of variables that don't play a role at all: height, weight, age; lenght of your arms, legs and torso; number of reps, RiR rate, type of exercises, difference between compound and isolated exercises, influence of compound exercises on pre-exhaustion of non target muscles, sequence of exercises, type of program, rest period between sessions, type of muscle (it is the same rule for quadriceps and biceps, hell yeah), etc...
None of that matters, just follow the golden rule and go to town. People make fun about gym bros but I feel like a lot of these researches are conducted by the same bros who just put on a lab jacket
Yes, these kind of studies always lack a lot of information. What were the subjects physical status? Were they all new to training or were they all close to their natural limit? Nutrients? I mean eating right will definetely do more than doing "the right" amount of sets.
@@lundh821 "6 sets per muscle per day. Bro... trust me!"
Exactly my thoughts
All of the authors of these studies aren't really drawing any definitive conclusions, just showing what appear to be some general trends that occur when you change certain factors of a training regimen while keeping all other factors as constant as possible. It's still important that more studies continue to come in so that we have a stronger consensus so that we can actually make proper judgements.
A problem with the studies above is that they are all characterized by very low numbers of participants, relative to how large of an effect one can expect different training volumes to yield. Had the number of participants in the studies been higher, we could have possibly been able to discern more differences between different approaches.
Low numbers of participants in the individual studies increase the need to meta-analyze the results. That is, to combine the results from all similar studies into one pool. But then we have the problem of heterogeneity: it is difficult to compare studies with such different approaches in terms of exercise choices and training sessions per week.
If we work ourselves from the bottom up, it looks fairly clear that about 10 sets taken to failure per muscle and week give greater strength increases and muscle growth than less training. This is mainly based on research on previously untrained participants.
If we look at trained participants, it seems possible that a training volume upwards of 15-20 sets to failure per muscle and week can give a much better result, at least if the training is divided into at least two sessions per week. In my personal experience, I also seem to have seen that a training volume upwards of 15-20 sets to failure per muscle and week can yield additional gains for someone who has previously mostly done around 10 sets to failure per muscle and week.
For some people, even more sets than that can probably be beneficial, at least during certain time periods, but then we are probably starting to talk about special cases rather than general cases. Note that, for example, a high-level bodybuilder or powerlifter may very well be a special case.
You sound like Ben Shapiro if he spoke at a normal human pace.
LMAO I will never be able to unhear this
Jeff puts so much work into his videos the only thing i can do for him is standing ovations . Thanks bro!
it means 6 8 sets per week is enough for triceps shoulders biceps and chest right ?
I recently switched to a low-volume, higher-weight routine, and I'm starting to see some pleasing results. I feel much stronger and my physique is much fuller as well. Definitely going to stick with this for a while at least.
Combine both. Too much heavy lifting can wreak havoc on the joints, especially in your older years. A healthy balance is key.
@@JohnDoe-qq8et I agree. It's just that I've been doing high-volume for quite some time.
A phasic approach is best imo. Spend 2/3rd of your year focusing on 10-20 reps and 1/3rd of your year in the 5-10 rep range
@@JohnDoe-qq8et common misconception. It’s the repetition that kills your joints. Doing 6-8 heavy reps will be optimal for your joints while 12-15 will hurt you faster over time.
I also did this for a few months now. And since 2 weeks I started getting pain in my elbow joint. So now I have to slow down.
In this Time Frame I went from a 75Kg 1RM to a 100Kg 1RM.
But it Sems that my elbow didn’t like that progression😂.
So Pls don’t over work yourself. It’s really annoying right now because I had to reduce a lot of weight.
So should I not be doing 1000 push-ups every day along with 1,000 curls and 500 pull-ups? Cuz I am.
You can but won’t be has time efficient has other ways.
Cap
Tbh that just sounds dumb asfuckk 😂
Nah dont do it it doesnt make any sense 😂
As long as you leave 2000 squats on reserve, it's ok
Jeff, how do you tally weekly set-count for exercises that overlap muscles? Many exercises have a primary muscle and secondary ones. Do you have a partial set count for secondary muscles? For instance, when you do a pushup that is chest focused, do you tally any of the sets against your tricep set count?
Check out the hypertrophy landmarks by renaissance periodisation. They cover all of this
@@nishanalfred
Loving the RP references here good shit
Yeah to save you watching the video if you're short on time, you can count the secondary muscles as having performed 1/3 or 1/2 a set etc, depending on how much you feel they contribute during exercises
@Markoviccc Nikola thx
i think #2 is the most relevant to me... a few months back I realized that I essentially wasn't pushing myself hard enough in the gym, doing too many "easy" sets... while I was in good shape, I wasn't getting stronger and I wasn't progressing. I started tracking my PRs on every lift at every weight and my goal is to set a PR on every visit to the gym. so far so good.
Me too. I get used to a certain workout schedule and then I don’t really push myself when I need to. This week I started really pushing myself hard.
Hello! When he says 6-8 sets per muscle, does he mean per muscle group (Like Chest, Bicep, Tricep, Etc) or actual Muscle (Upper chest, Middle chest, or Lower chest)
This is a bit random but I just want to thank you for your videos, they have really helped me get an effective workout and its almost unbelievable how much I have grown and gained weight the past 2 years. Without your videos, I would definitively have been doing ineffective/wrong movements. Never stop making videos, bye!
What about pyramid sets for pull ups for example?
@@goodquestion1233
What about it?
Great video!! As a beginner, my two main mistakes were lack of sleep and not eating enough. I was disappointed because my weight stagnated. Then I got my first diet plan (I think it was from Nextlevel DIet). I realised that my previous food intake was way below my needs, although I thought I'm good. At the beginning it was hard to eat so many kcal in a day, but I got used to it. I started noticing real gains and it felt amazing. I wish I'd understood the importance of diet earlier.
How much did you eat?
You can't know how many are junk sets. Undertraining is worse because there is no stimulus at all. It is better to do more volume than not enough.
God I fucking hate these diet add bots
@@thereisnofinishline5773 i know it is a bot but what it says is correct. I also had huge shock after i started counting my calories. In my head i was eating lots of calories but in reality i was eating about half of what i thought . For people like me it is a struggle to eat over 2000 calories of non junk food and because of this any amount of work i do in the gym is not that helpful and can even cause muscle loss instead of muscle gain especially when you do junk sets
@@riveralvarez7517 A lot for sure
4:24 Ed Sheeran 👽😳
Jesus loves you and always will ❤❤❤❤❤❤
Shout out to 14 year old me doing 30 sets per workout on a bro split, hearing the volume was too high and frequency was too high, and compromising with 20 sets twice per week lmao
NaturalHypertrophy's channel was unjustly terminated. #FreeNH
The most results I have seen is with the 4-5 day a week full body workouts with the regimen spread out over those 4-5 days. I absolutely love the pumps and my results have been fantastic. Thanks Jeff!
Full body split 4-5 days. Suprised you can recover from that.
@@za.307 Jeff has a 5-day High Frequency Full Body Program. This is probably what he's referring to. It's a great program.
Share the routine!
With 4 sets per excercise? How long is a workout? That has to be about 2 hours each time. Are you just doing compound excercises to cut the time?
@za.307 exactly what I was thinking.
So 6 sets per muscle per day, would that be for example: 3 bench, 3 skull crushers and 3 cable fly and you are done? I would imagine that different muscle heads in the pecs for instance, would still have a little room for work because they would be used but not fully fatigued.
I no longer count the repetition in a set but aims at roughly 10 reps. I find that failure is a much better yardstick and now see volume in terms of time under tension. I do only one set, (HIT extended set), slow repetition, 4 seconds eccentric and 2 seconds concentric controlled movements and I am having a better workout and recovery, spending less time working out.
TUT IS KEY. time under tension rules!
I also do one set, man! Works good for me!
Rather time under high tension aka low movement velocity even with high effort
Mike says 1 set to failure then 96 hrs of rest. He was huge i believe him.
You know Jeff's internet history is 90% 'Scientifically Proven Ways to Increase Height.'
🤣🤣
Undoubtedly, the most consistent fitnesses you-tuber. Clearly putting in the work in order to bring out the quality content!! 👏👏
it means 6 8 sets per week is enough for triceps shoulders biceps and chest right ?
But Jeff! In your Fundamentals Program under "Body Part Split" you got 4 Chest exercices with a total of 12 sets in one single session. (Bench press, incline bench press, Dips, Cable Flys) According to this video this program is considered "trash". Can you elaborate on that?
Would love to know too…
I think they all target different chest muscles maybe?
Not différent muscle but in different ways the comment abose is total braindead
Be careful, your body is not consisted of muscles only. Some "junk volumes" are actually good for your tendons and ligaments, especially if you don't have much time for cardio.
If you have time to do junk volume you probably have time to do a bit of cardio.
It's the opposite.
Take out the junk and you'll have time for cardio
For a long time, people have giving/ following the advice of 12 reps x 3 sets x 3 sets x 2 times per week. 216 reps per body part x 5-6 body parts. This just to achieve muscle stimulation. It makes no logical sense.
#FreeNH
#FREENH
I've been doing Jeff’s upper/lower program for 7 weeks now, and I gotta say - I was definitely doing a ton of junk volume before starting the program. When I originally got it I thought I would see no progress because it was almost half the total sets per week as I was doing before, but I've already really improved my squat and I've been having to add weight the last 3 weeks to hit RPE 7-9 for most movements in the rep ranges he gave. Most importantly, I don't feel run down and exhausted outside the gym, I feel awesome.
That's a good review man. I think back how how I trained (just coming back into bodybuilding) and I swear half my time was junk volume lol
I’m a bit confused though, if you only do 6 sets per muscle won’t that only take like 20-30 minutes?
@@StonkeyKong it’s an upper/lower split, so I do multiple muscle groups each workout. (Ie upper = 6 sets for chest, 6 for back, 4 for shoulders, 4 for triceps etc). I’ve switched to push/pull/legs now tho
@@JessJ2011 do you think its best to work out on only one muscle group per session or is it better to incorporate more per workout?
@@larrydavid4668 I think any split that allows you to hit most muscle groups at least 2x per week is best.. but different ppl respond differently to different splits. If you’ve always done a bro split, might be worth trying a push/pull/legs or upper/lower.
Hey Jeff. Love the vids! I have a question for you. I’m currently having some lower back problems which are restricting me from deadlifting. I was wondering if you could recommend some exercises to help preserve/improve my deadlifts whilst not being able to deadlift. And possibly recommend some things to relieve my back pain? Have a great day!
th-cam.com/video/l9poXGU11ms/w-d-xo.html
Check out the guys over at barbell medicine, they have some very good resources on pain and training in general. If you like Jeffs science based approach chances are you’ll like them too! Hope you’ll find your way back to training productively soon!
Hyperextensions are perfect for this
Kettlebell swings are brilliant for this, maxed out 455 deadlift and then just did kettlebell swings for 2 months and was able to do 445 when I got back to deadlifts
Try sumo deadlift instead of normal one
@@michalmijok Thanks, I've heard they work the back less than the conventional. Maybe I'll give them a shot!
9-12 sets per muscle, twice a week has always worked well for me and I’m still making solid gains of 1-2 lbs of muscle per month but I’m curious to try a few months of doing just 6 sets twice a week to see if my strength increases
How did the 6 sets go?
Are you relatively new to lifting? 1-2 per month is phenomenal!
I'm confused, 9-12 sets meaning 9-12 rounds of the same workout with 8-12 reps?
@TNO 9-12 sets (rounds) per muscle group split over two days. So maybe 6 sets of chest (working sets, not warm ups) one day and 4-6 sets on a different day.
@@DJSIC82 example: bench press 3x12, incline bench 3x12, decline 3x12, optional cable crossover 3x12. When your strength decreases in a workout go light that day and do 9 sets not 12 for that workout plus the next. 3 days on, 1 day off. Always be listen to your body and be ready to back off to recuperate but don’t take extra rest days. 1g protein per lb body weight minimum. You can only do high volume if you’re advanced (at listening to your body). Log every rep!
The caveats are important, everyone is different which is not always highlighted in almost all TH-cam training video. I personally need volume to see big changes in my body which took a very very long time to realise, mainly because I was being far too sensible. The advice such as from these vids with a splash of Ryan Humiston is what works for me
Great video as always. It definitely gave me a lot to consider with respect to my own approach to training.
I think that many people (myself included) might find it hard to reconcile this info with the general sentiment that more is better when it comes to training; personally, I would find it hard to shake the feeling that I’m leaving gains on the table if I only do 6 hard sets per muscle group per session. But if I could decrease my demand for recovery *and* further optimize strength and size gains by doing less volume, it does seem like a no brainer.
I will certainly read the research for myself, but I would have liked to hear more about how the studies’ experimental conditions might affect the takeaway. For example, might more volume be beneficial to optimized trainees (ie those who have their exercise selection, nutrition, and recovery dialed in)? I think that question is particularly relevant for your viewers, who on average probably have more optimized regimens than the average gym-goer.
Not to mention psychological factors too, ie Stress.
And and specific personal volume adaptations, some people can just do more leg volume per week than others and that’s just how it is
I think ones you get too specific you’re not going to be able to reference studies and will have to get a professional coach and run your own case study as it were
Amazing content like always! Wish I had known all this 20 years ago haha! Doing 6 sets per workout and 10-20 sets per week per muscle group is the holy grail of training. I've been able to maximize gains while minimizing recovery time and recovery past your mid 30s gets brutal. I realize not everybody has easy access to the gym but I've seen a huge benefit of doing short workouts 4-5x a week instead of cramming the same workload into long grueling gym sessions 2-3x per week. Consistency and moderation is key! Thanks Jeff!
Hey brother, quick question
Are the 6 sets including warm up sets or are the 6 sets all hard sets not including warm up sets?
@@luissilvahernandez2943 All hard sets
I’m glad I read this! I was just at the gym thinking that a hour & a half is too much.
@@strange4change_6 it's not. You have to think of everything. You're age, experience in gym, health, genes, form, sleep schedule, nutrition. Of course these videos don't cover all this, neither do the studies he looks over.....
If you do a split that hits each muscle once per week, and thus making you have fit all your weekly volume in one session, should you go with the 6-8 sets guideline or 10-20 sets?
I am training with really low weekly volume per muscle and still making good progress . Every set and every rep must be perfect for me to get that progress . Thank you so much Jeff for your videos .💪
Interesting. Can you describe your low weekly volume? What split? How many sets and reps per day?
How does the 10 sets per day work?
If I do Chest Dumbbell Presses 3 sets
Machine Press = 3 sets
Other Machine Chest Variation = 3 sets
Does that mean I've done already 9 sets? How do I work the remaining 1 set?
for me i believe if you can do 6 sets until failure youre not actually doing it "until failure" and should just put more weight until you can do only 3 sets max
Thank you - this video in particular was more useful than most content I've seen... I love that you back up your claims with meta-analysis of the scientific literature. Thanks to you I'm going to be able to save a significant chunk of time related to "junk volume" with confidence. I've already been trending this way already from personal experience (breaking up big sessions into many sessions over the week), but now that I have some evidence behind the decision, I'll be able to modify my remaining 'big' sessions into multiple 'smaller' sessions with zeal.
Does this mean I should train each individual part of my muscles such as rear, front, and medial delts each ten to twenty sets per week; or should I just do ten to twenty sets on each muscle group as a whole?
I wondering the same but I think its the whole muscle so in your case, 10-20 sets of shoulder workouts per week.
@@oliver4710 I was leaning toward that idea as well since we see Jeff use an example in the video with three different bicep curls that add up to ten sets and train different individual muscles in the bicep.
I think it is muscle groups as a whole.
Yes train each individual since rear and lateral delts require a different movement which means this should be separated as a whole ,
I’m grateful every time I see a good video like this that gives me the opportunity to learn something that will stay with me throughout my training. Thank you.
it's awesome that we can learn so much for free on yt!!
I always wonder if upper chest and lower chest count as separate muscles or if they count as part of the whole chest. Because that way it’s kinda hard to only get that 6-10 sets per muscle per workout in.
My push day 1:
DB Bench 4x 8-12
Smith machine incline bench 4x 8-12
High to low cable fly 3x 8-12
My push day 2:
DB Bench 2x 4-6 | 1x 8-12
explosive hammer strength chest press 3x 8-12
Smith machine incline bench 4x 8-12
Lower chest flys 3x 8-12
That‘s only my chest exercises, not counting triceps and shoulders. So I would like to know if I am doing too much volume or if its alright
What? Are you actually telling me that an 8 hour arm workout, with 128 sets, isnt optimal?😂
i just have to ask. if i'm doing push pull legs splits. do i only have to do 6-8 set per workout, per muscle group? i just feel like thats a small amout
ive been working out for about 4 years and already have got a good amount of muscle (6'4 235 about 13/14 %) i have been working out with at least 20 to 25 sets per muscle group the past 2 years now, this would obviously mean iam doing insane amounts of junk volume despite this i was still able to continuously add muscle and strength about 40 - 50 lbs on top of my 1 rep max per year id guess, does this mean iam throwing away possible gains and should start training with low sets or i should keep going just cause it works ?
this study is complete nonsense, you have to do a volume that will give enough stress to your muscles.
Love this. I think people at the gym think they gotta go as hard as possible on every set. Since he brought up the chest. I probably do 4 different chest exercises per workout. But on each different exercise the first set I always start with a light weight in order to not over fatigue myself, but to also make sure my technique is feeling good.
How many sets for each chest workout ? 3x12 or 5x12?
@@DJSIC82 Experiment and figure out what works best for you. There is no specific science, much as we would all like there to be, so we say that aiming for 10 to 20 hard sets per muscle group per week is what you should be looking for. For most people this will provide adequate stimulus for muscle growth.
So to answer your question, so long as the RIR is roughly the same, there is not much of a difference. There will be some, and other factors like genetics play a role, but as long as you're finishing each set with enough energy to pump out a few more reps you will be golden.
So 3x12 can work perfectly fine, as can 5x12. Understandably, 5x12 will likely need to have lower weights than the 3x12 in order to actually finish all those sets. That does not mean it is less effective than the other. There are plenty of strongmen who swear by sets of only around 5 or so reps, and they have no problem building muscle.
So in conclusion: So long as you have a few reps in the tank left over after every set, it will not matter what format you do them in. High sets and/or high reps will understandably take more time whereas less sets and/or less reps will take less time. Some people find it boring to be pushing that weight for 15 reps, but they love the struggle of a heavier set where they're only doing around 5 or so. Others are the opposite, preferring the longer sets for one reason or another.
My recommendation? Spend a few weeks trying different formats, differing amounts of reps/sets/weight, until you find something that feels right to you. Jut keep the RIR in the back of your mind as your switching things up, to make sure it all stays proportional. Injuring yourself is never fun.
Same with me but for biceps/forearm area. You simply cannot build your arms off of one exercise each half.
@@DJSIC82i do 2 sets per exercise to failure except on legs 2-3 sets max on those for chest Im trying to do less then 10 sets in a week. Great advice said by some people here is to just experiment withh this and see what works with you I personally train more intensity focused then volume but you do you have a good one bro God bless👊
Definitely makes sense. I made the jump from body building to powerlifting a year ago. I got myself a good coach who monitors my form and volume. I remember looking at his first program and thinking "where's the volume? I'm not gonna grow doing these 4 small full body sessions". Good thing I trusted the process because I'm in the gym less, still growing and adding weight to the bar week in week out.
Can u explain your workout routine
I think someone should define what ''weekly volume'' means.
Lets say you hit chest Monday but then your next chest workout is on a Saturday....surely you should do more volume.
Forget the muscle, how do I get hair like yours? Its luxurious!
Excellent topic about junk sets! Lots of junk videos also, that add little.
Question: Say with chest, within a day, that 4-6± sets are optimum to stimulate growth. However, since incline, flat, decline bench, cable, flys and so on, can stimulate different regions of the pecs, then if you plan the right exercises, I would think you could do 12+ sets in a day without them being junk sets, as you've targeted different areas of your chest and done the right amount of 'working sets' to failure or close to failure. Any input on this?
And the reply you get is spam lol. I really hope Jeff answers this, very interesting question.
The sternal head of the pec will still be involved to a decent degree even if you’re doing exercises for the clavicular and costal divisions. In your scenario I’d say you’d be doing junk volume for at least the sternal head.
The muscles in the body fire all or nothing so any kind of different angle still counts towards your maximal recoverable volume per muscle group. Too many people doing entirely too much volume per body part
Usually it's better to focus on 2 or 3 exercises and just get better at those, all exercises hit the whole chest and changing from incline to decline and stuff like that is usually for very advanced lifters but for most lifters, the whole muscle will get enough stimulation without changing the anglea
Yeah. These studies don't exactly account for everything. If the study uses barbell bench press vs machine, your volume requirements would be different. Rep ranges. RIR. Time Under tension, Diet, sleep. So As jeff says try
6 sets and bump it up if needed
His ability to explain the concept is exceptional. Like an instructor I once had told his students, if you can explain it to a 6 y/o and they get it, you understand it yourself.
it means 6 8 sets per week is enough for triceps shoulders biceps and chest right ?
@@evodotaIf you push to failure it definitely is enough. Even though personally (not a scientist or anything 😂) Ive found out that working muscle groups like the chest 6 sets per week is too low. Id rather be around 10
@@Aryan.schizo i think the same bro
This guy is so fucking good. All the research, the papers and work puts in, i really appreciate trainers who actually show proof and know what they are talking about .The fact he is researching and trying to learn and present to us, means that what he says is even more trustworthy, and not just broscience
But Humiston says I need 90 sets/week.
I get it. However,I just love being in the gym so yes I prob do more sets than necessary, but, I’m in a place I love
Jeff, I love your videos but I'd also be super interested to hear how this information stacks up when applied to calisthenic loads.
Thank you for covering the point at 3:46. In the past, when I have decreased volume based on things like this, I felt progress slow. Everyone is different so I appreciate that you acknowledged that it's not 1 size fits all
I think a distinction needs to be made between sets per muscle group and sets per exercise. For instance, three sets of bench, two sets of dips, and two sets of weighted push-ups feels much more effective for me than seven sets of bench, despite both options containing seven sets for chest.
@@wishesandfishes I have to imagine this comes about because you can work harder on two different exercises because, though they do train the same sets of muscles, they won't train them in the exact same way so you will get some effort shifted from one head of muscle to another in each (i.e. one exercise doing 60%-40% between two parts of the muscle, the other doing 40%-60%) thus giving you a better all around workout. I'd be curious to what extent that actually makes a difference vs just the rest time being greater (typically) between sets of one exercise and between two wholly different exercises.
I appreciate you leaving the links to the studies in the description, high quality information right here
yes such a good move from him :)
Don’t trust these studies tho. They don’t account for your body. Tbh the one study showing how many sets to do was kind of inconclusive. Sure they showed a trend but the outliers show that they really don’t know what’s going on.
But there’s a big problem here; what about each individual muscle, let’s say cable lateral raises. Do we do 10 sets for each lateral deltoid or for both? Would that mean we should do 5 sets for each? This is really unclear and makes me loose tons of time in the gym.
What about working on different areas of the same muscle? The pecs to be exact; if I do 3-6 sets on a bench press and cables, can I still hit the incline dumbbell press for the upper area of the pecs? Or would it start declining towards the junk volume sets?
#FreeNH
Thank you so much Jeff! I understand the correlation between frequency and hypertrophy, but as a 45 year old lifter have there been any studies involving recovery of connective tissue in relation to volume. High frequency workouts work on my muscles but they always beat me up in my joints.
Absolutely! Jeff, incredible insight bro. Thank you for your relentless digging for our benefit
it means 6 8 sets per week is enough for triceps shoulders biceps and chest right ?
His little Ben Shapiro voice. Lol
good video. important info
It seems a lot of people are worried about how to count primary and secondary movers in most exercises, so I’d like to voice an opinion: as long as you’re aiming for around 4-6 sets per body part, it **might** not matter that much - but a little bit of common sense goes a long way. How many chest sets should the close grip bench press count for? Well, after 4-6 sets of horizontal push work with your chest as the main mover and triceps as a secondary mover, you probably shouldn’t do more than a couple heavy, focused sets of close grip bench pressing, bc you’re approaching “junk volume” territory.
The close grip bench press is meant to focus on development of strength and mass of your tricep, not the chest. I wouldn’t categorize that exercise as primary chest movement. A wide grip bench would be a better fit.
@@ZackAschliman I didn't, but I can see how you may have misunderstood based on the wording. The 4-6 sets of horizontal push work would be for a "main" movement with your chest as the main mover and your triceps as a secondary mover (normal/wide grip bench, DB bench, etc), and the close grip bench would be an accessory that you would do after that. I begged the question that anyone would train close grip bench as a main horizontal push exercise, but I guess it does happen. Jeff himself actually addressed this question better than I could on his channel, so I'd recommend people just read that because I actually gave a way lower volume recommendation than he did.
But I'd like to reiterate my main point: common sense goes a long way and aiming for anywhere around 6 sets per body part of focused work is solid.
@@phillips8366 totally agree!
Noice I do junk volume and eat junk food
This stuff blows my mind. I dont know anyone that does 6 sets on chest day. 2 exercises at 3 sets of 8... Just seems crazy, not saying it's wrong, what do I know. Its just mindblowing
6 sets for lower chest 6 for middle and 6 for upper
I don't know any body builders who only do 6 sets total to build a massive chest lol these studies have many variables and are easily manipulated to prove a point.
Jordan Peters and his crew would really confuse you then haha
@@thealbinorhino8760 i agree but i am still going to give this a try. It feels weird to even think about doing less sets on the bigger muscles (chest back legs)
@@thealbinorhino8760 what do u recommend,how many sets per week?
Guy sounds so similar to Ben Shapiro
3:43 He's talking about steroid users.
Jesus Loves you all very much!!! God Bless everyone!!!
Funny how Christians will never actually love anyone, its up to Jesus to love, but you? Naah
Very informative, I’ve been doing the 5 day a week full body routine and man I’ve not ever had results like this, thus far I’ve gone up in weight everyday on every muscle group except on pull-ups, that’s been a constant, but I’m not doing full body weight on those yet. Great routine and I’m absolutely loving it!
Can u elaborate on ur full split plz🙏
Thank you for posting this. Answered questions I have had for quite some time. BTW, I have followed you since you started and would just like to say, you should be proud of yourself. Your gains are incredible. I'm 82 and still learning after weight training and exercising since I was 15. Always appreciate your knowledge. Thank you.
it means 6 8 sets per week is enough for triceps shoulders biceps and chest right ?
But yet we're also told that volume correlates to muscle hypertrophy. I can tell you that I alternate between two different ways of working out, a heavy program and a high rep program. The combination of the two has been far more effective for me than either one by itself. It seems that doing both is the magic combination. As an example, today I started my workout with dumbbell bench presses. And the numbers I did are stupid. Every set is 10 reps. Weights are PER dumbbell. First set, 50 pound dumbbells to warm up. Second set, 100 pounders to failure at 9 reps. Rest for three minutes and then begin the main workout at 40 pounds each. At this weight I did twenty SETS, and then, went up 5 pounds (per dumbbell) per set until I reached the set at which I could not make 10 reps. That ended up being under a pair of 80s. Total reps: 287. 268 counting from the first of the 20 sets with 40 pounders. Doing this TYPE of high rep workout has given me HUGE gains in the number of sets I can do, EVERY time I've done this high rep workout. The first time I did it, I could not make 200 reps. The second time, I made 240 reps and boosted the weights in the last sets. Third time, 287 reps with progressive weight increase past set no. 22. Those are SIGNIFICANT short term gains. Incidentally, I'm 57 years old.
For me I do around 15 hard sets, but i pyramide up on each exercise. I just feel like going straight to what is your top lift on a bench day is rough. I like start slow adding more progressive weight to the bar. I dont count the first 3 sets as they are "Warm up".
Thanks so much, Jeff! Having followed you for several years now, it's so cool seeing the production quality of your video just keep going up and up and the information staying as amazing as ever. Really grateful for your stuff! Keep up the awesome work
Bot
Love the presentation format and the video flow. I'd be curious to see a similar video but with regards to max strength. Keep it up man!
yeah me too!
So why did king arnorld have the greatest body of all time yet he was in the gym for over 2 hours a day.
The combination of steroids, good genetics, and good genetic response to steroids
Im 30 years old. Spongebob seems like forever ago to me. And yet, i hear the word technique and i alwaysssssss "technique! Technique! Squidward, technique"
Speaking of effective sets, how would you count them for the shoulders? Consider front, lateral and the rear head separately or mash them up together?
hope he helps you!
I’d definitely count them separately because they’re fairly distinct muscle groups, despite being right next to eachother.
Hey Jeff! Great video as always. I'm just wondering: Since you mentioned you think 0-2 RIR is about the best range for progress for each set, what's your opinion on programs that utilize something like 5x10, 5x5 or some similar fixed rep and weight scheme per set? Most likely, you'll have more than 0-2 reps in reserve for the earlier sets compared to the last set, would you consider the earlier sets wasted volume? Would you prefer instead of 5x5 at a fixed weight for example, 10>8>7 reps (0-2 RIR) at a fixed weight?
Im not Jeff, but from my experience you should be able to find a load that fits within both systems pretty well. Say you are doing a 5x5 on the bench with 200 pounds, the first set you might have a little over two reps, the second and third set you might have about two, the fourth set you might have one, and the fifth set you will have zero or close to zero RIR. If the fourth set feels heavy, you can do the last set with like 190-195. Overall you are doing the majority of the work right around the 0-2 RIR range, and its not really all that different.
It can work but the more advanced you get you'll be constantly riding the razor's edge of having to deload or face the consequences of over training as it's too much volume.
Thank you Jeff this is literally the best stuff on the Internet as far as I’m concerned. Following your videos has been a major contributor to my training results.
are you doing weight lifting?
So if I’m doing a chest only day, my 20 sets is like, waay too much? 6 sets just doesn’t seem right.
And my question is literally answered toward the end. Thanks Jeff.
In summary: Why you should avoid junk volume for optimal muscle growth is not because you are wasting time, its because you're going to have a longer recovery time for no extra muscle.
it means 6 8 sets per week is enough for triceps shoulders biceps and chest right ? 5:15
Per session, yes. Not per week.
@@falconswiss5217 ty
@@evodota Me personally I do 2-3 sets per session and do 2-3 sessions per week. It's been working great, and I've been gaining muscle for 2 years this way!
Good advice, I wish I had known this when I was a bit younger. I remember training 10 x 10 170 kg deadlift and all I got to show for it was two herniated discs! 😬
10x10 for deadlift? Jesus christ my dude
@@YiGzit And that's why I don't do it anymore 😁
Can you do an update on how to combine this with the other ways to stimulate muscle growth (specifically TUT)? Thanks Jeff, great content as always.
This is his opinion. He actually says words like “I think.” It doesn’t make him right.
Body builders have been doing high volume for decades and it obviously works. But this guy finds an obscure study that fits into his narrative and all of a sudden it’s the gospel.
No one ever said high volume doesn’t work though. There are plenty of ways to get great results there are body builders who have amazing physiques with both low and high volume
Has anyone ever told you that you sound like a slowed down Ben Shapiro?
Holy shit. You're right.
When I just read the title I thought he was talking about gaining muscle volume without gaining more strength.
But I have not found a video yet where it's explained how to maximize strength gain while not gaining much muscle mass.
Super high reps sets might not be good to gain more strength but maybe the people doing it want to improve the strength endurance of a muscle group.
Thank you, Jeff!
I'm a philosophy student, I do read researches as a routine. Your video is like a meta analysis to all. I have good leverage in my learnings, all because of you. I love your sources and all!