This is exactly how to respond to criticism. Let go of your ego, put science and studies behind it, and find the best way to do something and share it with everyone. You're the best Jeff.
It's crazy though if you apply science to other areas of life nowadays it doesn't seem to matter as much. Feelings and opinions seem to trump the science and facts
@bluejay2623 It depends, in the medical field, science and fact are respected. In politics it's thrown out the window. When it comes to fitness feeling I prioritized. Some people still think creatine is 100% placebo to every single person.
Support those doing studies for sure but remember one study does not = fact and another study could be done that shows completely different results. Take those single studies as bits of evidence to put toward the bigger pile you sort out to form your own opinion, and always be open to changing it if/when evidence supports it.
@@TyaColono....? Those studies are then peer reviewed by people smarter than you who point out all the flaws and the infomation is expanded from there It isn't a fact it becomes theory which is practically a fact Your opinion going againts a peer reviewed study is wrong because the peer reviewed study is right. There can be different studies with different bases, but that will always be right....its like saying "form your own opinion on gravity" There can be advancements that change building however this proof will still have better results we can learn something that says a 4th method is better but that dosnt disprove that of the 3 this one is better Biology won't change since this is in the context of the other 3 as long as a study is proven testes and peer reviewed it's as close to a fact as possible A theory can be expanded apon but not disproven unless you littrally disproven the entire baseline to biology
@@diveblock2058 Everything you said is true and I agree, but my counter is this: Literally doesn’t matter how sure you are a single study or an entire body of work is “fact”, if you’re following the scientific method and using critical thinking you will more than likely come to the same conclusion on your own, and your conclusion will change when appropriate evidence arrives. Thus imo we’re much better off preaching constant and never ending skepticism and open-minded thinking than trying to insist one thing is right. The fact of the matter is as much evidence we have in favor of the theory of gravity at some point we could (or could not) find new contradictory evidence that forces the scientific community to rethink what is “fact”. And if you preach to everyone how gravity is an undebatable fact, then new evidence arises, the general public, not understanding the scientific method, will call you a hypocrite and further distrust science. Look at the pandemic to see that exact principle at work.
200% of 0 = 0… love you really Jeff and you did not need to respond to the haters at all, let alone smash them out the park with this. Thanks for the great content Jeff
So you’re telling me someone doing a full ROM on a flat barbell bench press, chest to bar, won’t see significantly more growth, than someone doing partial reps, half the distance that the bar travels? I call BS.
Jeff is my favorite lifting influencer on TH-cam. Not only is he natty and still impressively big, but he puts a ton of effort to put good info into his vids and make them look great. He’s also very humble
So I'll just keep doing partials after I can't do full ROM reps anymore, like I've done for years at the point. No harm, no foul, takes balls to make and release a video like this, hats off to all who made this possible.
definitely agree that this is the best of both worlds! biggest (in both senses of the word lmao) person i can think of who does this in their own training is GVS, and his effort levels and physique certainly speak for themselves lmao. starting with full ROM and then doing lengthened partials to failure literally lets you have your cake and eat it too
@@yannini11 The conclusion I took from this is that lengthened partials is another addition to the volume/intensity balance where the two variables each add growth but at the cost of recovery. A blanket statement that you should always finish your sets with lengthened partials does not take into account the recovery cost of doing those which is arguably the most important variable. Your training should be adapted to train just hard enough to allow you to recover and currently most people who train hard probably are already at this point and adding lengthened partials will not add significantly more stimulus but will add enough recovery cost to push them over that boundary. Tl;dr: Since this doesn't add anything significant the same principles as before still apply. Manipulate volume and intensity to keep you recovered and ready for the next session without also leaving a lot in the tank. Lengthened partials can be a variable to add but doing so would necessitate that you remove volume or intensity elsewhere.
You have no idea how much your videos have helped me mentally and physically. I was at a really low point in my life, but I started locking in, and your videos helped me a lot. Thank you so much!
@@mfrebel7831 What do you mean by not finishing? That you don’t hit a certain rep range? If that’s the case, lower the weight until you’re within your target range and only raise it when you move outside of that range consistently
what a concise, scientifically-sound, calm response to the call-outs. inspirational as a lifter and as a human who can take criticism and respond like an adult, a rarity nowadays, jeff is what a person should strive to be.
This is the SOOOO Jeff to respond to hate with a personally funded study that specifically focuses on the points his critics were using to diminish the studies he was citing.
If you would read his referenced studies, you'd see how similar most of that science based lifting is to r/science. Take some (in part poorly done) studys, misrepresent their results and hope people only bother to read at most the headlines. For example he linkes study "Training in the Initial Range of Motion Promotes Greater Muscle Adaptations Than at Final in the Arm Curl". If you read the study, you'll see in the result section, that partial lengthened reps only significantly increase CSA at 70% distal length, but not overall CSA. Same goes for the new "study". The results show no significant difference, but they go on to claim that the reason for that, is that full ROM is just an extended partial rep. (By the way they can't even show no difference to a significant level, because the design was poor).
@@robertmusil1107Did you not absorb anything you just watched? The study was focused on full range of motion compared to stretched partials, and they were equal. Meaning you get the same exact gains from doing half of the rep in the stretched portion of the lift. Meaning that the stretched portion of the lift is where you are building your muscle.
The 2 biggest questions after seeing this: 1. How did you take into consideration the “crossover effect” when accounting for differences? We know that with individuals who injure a limb that often times doing exercises with the healthy/functioning side or limb results in a noticeable effect on compensation through adaption with the other. So, with this study we understand that the idea was to balance out the groups by splitting left vs right sides in case you had someone genetically gifted, but we realize that because of the crossover effect variable, your data was potentially skewed towards the null outcome. This explains why the before mentioned studies testing separate groups on full ROM vs lengthened partials had larger variances. Knowing the physiological effects of the crossover effect, I think this explains the almost null outcome and further evaluation is needed. I still think the “only lengthened partials” group is onto something, we just need more of those studies to achieve an accurate conclusion. 2. While not as important from a hypertrophic standpoint (which I believe was the primary goal of this particular experiment in the video) I am extremely interested on the effects of tendon/ligament strengthening. For instance, while I might get the same muscle-building benefits from lengthened partials vs full ROM, what about my tendon strength? As an example, most would advise to drop weight on preacher curls and focus on full ROM because a major concern would be a breakage of the bicep tendon. The same could be said for a squat, leg extension, pulldown, etc. I realize that the lengthened partials already work the most vulnerable/effective position for hypertrophy, but would there be more protection and benefit to the overall strength of the human body to prevent injury and increase mobility by doing full ROM? I’m extremely interested because if lengthened partials vs full ROM end up having the same outcome for hypertrophy, but there is a significant increase in overall tendon strength and mobility with full ROM, then overall, full ROM would be superior.
I really wouldn’t consider the crossover effect at all. It isn’t supported by any data and, even among its claims, it’s mostly a strength based transference with little to no mention of hypertrophy, which is what this study is testing. On point 2, tendon/ligament strength is just not a very well understood concept. Period. We barely understand it mechanically, and we have no idea to the extent or ability. Here I’m getting a bit out of my depth so don’t repeat anything here as fact, but tendon/ligament injury is just not a massive concern or even point of improvement for natural lifters. If your tendons or ligaments break, it’s at their ATTACH points, not the bellies, and there’s really nothing you can do about that, period. Your tendons and ligaments also just aren’t prone to long term injury. Most of what people experience as “tendon pain” is actually a joint misalignment/pain causing an inflammation in the tendons, not a weakness of the tendon itself. Again, not something you can particularly “train” against, other than treating whatever imbalance is causing the problem. You aren’t going to fix patellar maltracking by strengthening your knee cap ligaments. Unless you have a degenerative disorder, your only risk of injuring a ligament or tendon is hyperflexion, working out cold, or lifting beyond your means. Thats where preacher curls become a problem, people tend to hyperflex on them.
Good questions. I just watched the Will Tennyson + Magnus videos and Magnus (as a pro climber) does a ton of both, but obviously lots more fully stretched movements. He was pound for pound stronger than Will in almost every metric except shoulder press I think? So yeah for sports I think full range movements are the essential movements to avoid injury and keep your entire body strong.
Love the approach and the fact that the results where not necessarily going 100% in the direction you "wanted" is a big plus in terms of credibility on your side. Good job guys.
It was so funny to hear Dr. Wolf, Dr. Pak, Dr. Helms, and then Dr. Mike all come on one after another. Talk about a dream team! So this is the study they've been talking about for months on the podcasts! I think this is most valuable to know if you struggle with maintaining form through the whole range of motion, or have a weird injury or something that makes doing it at the shortened length feel wrong. I'm thinking specifically about lateral raises in my case; my upper traps try to help when they shouldn't if I try to do the full ROM at heavier weights. If I can only go 75% of the way and get the same benefit, then that's awesome.
IMO a big point people miss is that the main reason talking about the stretch is SO important is because most lifters I see in the gym ,if they are making any mistakes, its that they avoid the lengthened portion of most lifts because its harder! So whether you are using Full ROM or lengthened partials, both are a vast improvement over half repping in the shortened position by cutting depth on movements like squats, bench, curls, etc. Keep spreading the good word Jeff. You’re the man!
I agree, the reason it's important is to know about this is that if you are going to go partial go lengthened partial instead of chasing the squeeze, i.e. in biceps, and to suck it up and take the pain of going for the stretch.
Absolutetly. Even some of those critizising are actuall not doing full range often and precisely skip the lengthen portion. Is not just the people in my opinion, but also the fact that some classical exercises themselves (how they were designed) as well as some machines promote skipping this part of the range, and this should serve as a reason to get rid of those exercises/machines.
100% agree with this comment. Whether or not “lengthened partials” are superior to full ROM or “worth programming” is up to the individual. But without question this proves that the muscle is built during the stretch portion of the movement.
@@Jensen_Gamingthere are exercises we ALL know Work well that Never reach the most stretched positon. Like the ohp and the regular bench press. I Wonder If the mid position Works as well as the most stretched position.
@marketlider2811 that is just not true. Maybe the way some people do the bench press, leaving the bar 5 CMS away from the chest, as I do folks do in the gym constantly, yes. If you do a proper bench press with your back arched (add an irregular bar for extra stretch) you are definitely hitting the stretch positions. As for the OHP not sure I guess you are meaning chest, well, not the best exercise to train chest. Do some proper dips instead and let me know how sore you are feeling next day.
Simple: do a combination of both. Start with full range and then add lengthen partials when needed. I’ve done this with rest pause sets and cluster sets and worked wonders. The key is controlling the intensity and volume when doing lengthen partials on certain exercises (ex. Lengthen partials on a leg press vs preacher curl)
As a new viewer of your content, I heard someone say that unlike other fitness influencers it truly feels like youre trying to help everyone. That alone was enough to make check you out!
In my opinion the best recipe is this: - full ROM - deep stretch (with slight pause) - slow negative - lengthened partials on the last 2-3 reps when full ROM can no longer be achieved
Agreed. Even if focusing on full stretch doesn't add more muscle, being strong in the bottom, full stretch makes lifting safer. People hurt themselves on bench or preacher curls cause they dont train to fullnstretch and lift out of it.
I agree, it's great, and the core of science in general. People often misinterpret science as this definitive dogma, when really science is based on the continuous evolution of collective knowledge in a way that controls for as many variables as possible.
@@arunkarthikma3121 the only difference between partial group and full ROM group was the range of motion. Everything else was equal including controlling the eccentric, slight pause and explosive concentric. Therefore we can say that the lifters made equal gains with lengethened partials as compared to full ROM in less time.
@@TurdBoi666 Yep - unfortunately not many lifters know about experimental science - so they think one set of results "proves" that result. This is despite all of the science-based guys on TH-cam repeatedly explaining why many studies looking at exactly the same hypothesis are needed.
Jeff, I love your attention to detail and not getting lost in the weeds! As a registered nurse and working through injuries and many patient's with inferior/superior limb injuries, the control set by the same person is still receiving the centrally nervous system stimulation. First hand, I had a rotator cuff repair in November of 2023. Attempting to become as lopsided as possible went from bicep at 16.25" to 13.5" within 2 weeks (grrr bicep muscle fibers lose the quickest). Whenever you have a person with a knee or upper extremity injury, I always recommend getting the other side as strong as possible to facilitate a quicker recovery. I dig the information and have detailed training logs with rep/set count information for the past year. The variable of CNS stimulation may be an interesting underlying variable to take into consideration...Thanks again!
Thanks for going through the effort to carry out this experiment Jeff. I've made a video about "1.5 reps" on my channel, integrating full rom + lengthened partials for the best of both worlds (size & strength) Keep up the good work mate
The length of the motion has almost nothing to do with strength/size. You determine those with volumen of reps and rest times. This video literally just proven that full ROM and LLP are exactly the same for hypertrophy
I think the way Jeff went about this was awesome. He took matters into his own hands, along with the team that helped, and conducted new research to honestly test this out. I always enjoy seeing what he has to post!
John Meadows program , has been incorporating Full Rom and Partials reps for ages even before these studies. Hes a legend indeed. Way ahead of his time. RIP MountainDog
Jeff is one of the most humble, high EQ intelligence, especially people in fitness field I ever seen. Admired to how you respond criticism and we all should learn from this.
Having Coach Greg yelling in my sleep is the fuel of night mares!! I fully appreciate Jeff's approach, not calling people out, not saying others are idiots, he just gets in does the research produces the information and facts. Love it... What about full ROM until you hit close to failure and the lengthened partials until complete failure?
Jeff's one of the few guys I still follow on youtube. Levelled takes, good science, and doesn't have another youtube channel with weird AF philosophy like a certain other influencer.
I wanted to put this here so hopefully you’ll see it as I’d be interested in your opinion. Thanks BRO! I think one aspect that has been overlooked/not mentioned was the fact that they went to failure. This is significant since it affects how many reps people do for partials and full ROM. Since the work being done for each rep is less for partials than full ROM, the subjects will end up doing more partials than full rom. However, when you look at time under stretch/resistance for both treatments, there would be an insignificant difference. This has gotten me thinking, maybe the reason that stretched positions may increase muscle gains is because your muscles act almost like a rubber band under tension when stretched. They hold some of the energy in and this in turn gives you a small boost when initially applying force. What does this mean? It means you essentially cheat the system and save energy. This saved energy means you can output more total work for your muscle which results in slightly more muscle development. Just some food for thought.
0:33 why are they saying "THE STRETCH" like its some unheard of, barbaric gimmick 💀 its literally just how you do a rep in the gym, every rep has a stretch
I have switched my focus to the stretch portion of the lifts and the difference was rapid and very clear to me personally. Milk the stretch is the way to go.
As a beginner lifter myself, it changed my results drastically, probably due to the 'sarcomeres in series' effect (an area I was lacking due to sarcopenia/shortening from extreme sedentary lifestyle) Reality: MOST people watching this stuff are in the 'average/beginner' category. Relatively few are advanced lifters. The benefit to those who need it most, vastly outweighs any 'overhype' negative effect to already trained lifters.
@@HJDfWrawRWRwathanks doc for your incredibly well thought out opinion! I’m sure you were watching bro day and night and were able to come to that conclusion!
I definitely also made some huge improvements starting to focus on the stretch but also on full range of motion. I got very quick visible results even though I was training for 4 years when I started to pay attention to it. But two years later I would say that yes there was a visible and quick improvement but it slowed down pretty quickly as well.
How can you hate this man He is extremely serious in his job and genuinely wants the best for the fitness industry and is READY to let go of his ego and being unbaised in his tests 😅 Truly the face of natural and scientific bodybuilding
@@hayden4988 should I expand on what I mean? Idk if I feel like getting into a comments battle right now. I’ll say this and then leave. Yeah obviously I know I can do what I want in the gym. I have other reasons for saying it shined lifting.
This video officially crowns Jeff Nippard as the GOAT fitness YTer. He is humble enough to listen to his critics. He doesn’t make a wild reaction video screaming and ranting into the camera to defend himself and in turn exposes his insecurities. Instead, in his typical Jeff Nippard’s neutral tone, he made an entire video purely to seek for the objective truth nothing else, risking having egg on his face in front of all of his viewers. And when the actual results came out, he could have sugar-coated the video or not post the video altogether. But he didn’t. His dedication to educating the masses of real fitness knowledge for purely the benefit of his viewers is unmatched. We did not just watch a fitness video. We watched how to take criticism and react like a real human being should. God bless this man.
its mostly genetics to start with. all they talk about is a minimum of 5% increase of anything, after doing a "correct" excercise. the rest is influencer bullshit to sell your channel .
This was such an insightful experiment! It's fascinating to see that lengthened partials can be just as effective as full range of motion. Definitely going to incorporate more of this into my training. Great work and thanks for backing it up with solid research! 💪🔥
Jeff is what I strive to be. Not physically, but a man of craft and passion. He truly loves and is fascinated by the art and science of body building, it's why I love him. I gravitated to him initially bc I am also a short guy, but as time has gone on, his value has greatly exceeded that. Keep being you jeff, I wouldn't want it any other way.
@@FridgemaxxedHybridoreanL-wi6rg I think he's just pointing out that he meant this particular admiration that he is referring to is an admiration of character, despite his impressive physique or indifferent to it.
Man I am a normal guy and I really like your channel. You and Dr. Mike have so much content and leading information on how to train and be better during out workouts that is helping me A LOT. The part of the connection with the muscle, focusing on controlling the work out and progress every day, day after day is starting to show smalls results and I’m really proud of myself. Thanks for sharing tour knowledge with us and help us improve. Cheers from Brazil 💚
I'm more of a subscriber to Boogs' methodology for lifting, but will always respect Jeff for stuff like this. Honest and open minded. Even if Jeff was wrong, so what if he is willing to set aside his ego to showcase a study that benefits everyone's lifting. Mad props for doing this.
I used to watch Jeff when I first started at the gym several years ago. Came back for the first time in years, fuck me he is killing it. Millions of views every video wow. Congrats
"Participants were instructed not to perform any additional upper-body RT (resistance training) outside of the study protocol but were permitted to perform lower-body RT and other physical activities at their discretion." In case anyone else was wondering.
@@familyonly2164dude the video literally stated that to get rid of such confounding factors, each individual used one side of their body as the control (full ROM). when there is a within-sample control it literally does not matter whether they decided to do full marathons or sit at home and watch youtube.
As someone who teaches the interpretation and application of research in medicine, I greatly appreciate what Jeff has done here. The only thing I would have liked to have seen is an additional comparison with shortened partials (i.e. only focusing on the squeeze). As it stands, if lengthened partials and full ROM have statistically equivalent gains, that might suggest that it's just the stretch that's relevant. But that finding would also be consistent with it not mattering if one focuses on only the stretch, only the squeeze, or focusing equally on both. Obviously, there's a limitation that people only have 2 actual physical arms for the 2 figurative arms of a study in which they serve as their own control, so logistically, this would have required at least doubling the sample size.
I don't think he bothered to do that because the studies that have already been done show a significant downside to "shortened" partials. Both full ROM and lengthened partials come out way ahead
I don’t think Jeff gets enough credit for how incredibly good he is at video production. I would watch his videos no matter what they are about just because they’re so pleasing to the eye.
This has to be appreciated. Not only did Jeff actually fund and oversee a study just to update his knowledge (and by extension, ours too), but also he didn't shy away from sharing the results even when it wasn't emphatically in favor of what he's been saying all along Props to you man! Your videos are helping a newbie lifter like me improve in heaps Could you clarify just one thing though? Were the participants in the study doing the same reps in partials as full ROMs in the sets that weren't till failure? Or were all sets to failure? Because I think we can get away with more reps if we do partials so that might also be a contributing factor to improving gains in lengthened partials Edit: apparently a lot of people are not able to understand what I'm trying to ask. I'm asking how many reps on average did the participants do in partials and full ROMs. Since Jeff has made another video where he talks about lower reps can provide more hypertrophy, so that might be an advantage for full ROMs since you can do more reps on partials
stop citing sources that just came out with few studies. look at the research that has been done for a long time. u can find sources and cite "science" on just about anything u want to. citing "science" that hasnt been researched well enough and making a video of it and call it ground breaking is just click bait
Jeff is the light to my darkness. The girth to my length. The glaze to my donut. The cream to my crops. The fertiliser to my seed. He brings out the best in everyone!
I love this mindset, instead of feeling the need to apologize when almost the whole fitness influencer community called him out saying he was wrong, he didnt step back and proved his point with his own study
I don't know the kind of fitness community you are following, I haven't seen a single guy saying anything negative about the lengthened partials. Maybe I'm in a bubble, I don't know, but listening to guys like Greg Doucette = disrespecting your own time and energy.
@@arturzinurov2146 What are the "more benefits" you're referring to? According to this study, and others, doing only lengthened partials vs. full ROM accomplish virtually the same thing.
@@arturzinurov2146 The study found no significant evidence of a huge disproportion in muscles growth and given that the range of error of the study is around 0.8% and that you can do more lenghtened partials than full motions It really doesnt make a difference. I prefer training with full motions Max stretch but the study did not prove him wrong
It's called pseudo science, Jeff made up some "science" bs just to make content. Lifting ain't that complicated, it's quite simple, but if the influencers said that, they would run out of content. So they make goofy pseudo science bs up. And y'all eat it up. Get off the couch and you will see how easy it is to build muscle
@@kingiam9271 Jeff literally did whole scientific study, explained how he did everything, and you still called it pseudo science? You're not the smartest one, are you?
@@ShoomLa and the conclusion was there is no difference. I could of told you that. Next he will conduct a scientific study on wether working out at 9am is better than working out at 10am 😒🤦 let me save you the time. It doesn't matter. Yet you will be amazed at the results 🤣
@kingjam9271 I never understood this perspective. Jeff wants to double check something we might all intuitively know as true, and then when he does, it turns out we were all right. Why are you upset with someone who simply double checked? You are saying it's a waste of time, but Jeff clearly didn't think so. Who are you to tell Jeff how to live his life? It's not bullshit, he literally just decided to observe something one time...
I’ve been working out for a few years now listening to you primarily. When I tell you ITS THE MF STRETCH that has made this year of training for me truly amazing and fulfilling. So thank you
I did lengthened partial past full ROM failure before all these studies 😆 I think the issue some people are having with science-based fitness is that it takes away some people's focus from going and doing their own science in the gym lab, just getting good at LIFTING you know, good at building muscle. It's a skill and science can be used for that but you'll find the best answers to what works for you by experimenting and applying yourself in the gym. It shouldn't be exclusive but as trainer and coach, I've seen many people overthinking "science" before even being a consistent gym goer. Great work on the video and study still ofc 🙏
Honestly, this is why we subscribe. In contrast to Greg Doucette's "science, science, science [is dumb]", your cerebral take is why you are one of the best fitness TH-camrs on this platform. You are one thoughtful dude, and we appreciate it.
I've been lifting for almost 20 years since I was a teenager, and my chest has NEVER grown much despite all the different exercises out there, and despite strength increases in all aspects of upper body parameters. 6 months ago, I tried dips for the first time, along with paused push ups (bring sally up/down routine), putting emphasis on the stretched position. My chest has grown more over the past 6 months with just bodyweight training, than the past 20 years of weight training/powerlifting.
Ehhh he wasn’t really wrong. The fact that you can get the same gains means that (based on this data) lengthened partials are by far the most important component of a lift
@@MegaFunnyvids4u1problem is shortened partials would probably have been similar. We’ve known for years training simply isn’t usually the limiting factor for hypertrophy.
I'm relieved by the result. In my experience it all comes down to simplicity (find good exercise, push yourself, chart your results, exceed previous achievement) and anything that complicates your mindset is distraction. Now I can just get on with working out without worrying about the minutiae.
It's definitely still very impactful to our idea of how best to train overall. Like people have mentioned, a combination of the two methods could result in much greater gains. I can train an exercise with full ROM for say 10 reps before I can't do another full rep, and then switch to lengthened partials and get a few more reps. More volume, essentially more gains. Another thought, because you may be able to do more weight with a lengthened partial, you could use this as a progression scheme. Lateral raises come to mind immediately as going from the 20lb to 25lb dumbbells is a huge jump. Instead, I could do partials until I can do full ROM and then increase the weight. Reset back to partials, and so on. In the long term, this may result in greater gains purely because the lifter can continue to progressively overload in a more straight forward manner.
Doing more volume doesn't equal more gains, you just want to maximize mechanical tension(last 5 reps to failure) and minimize fatigue. And for the progression scheme thing, just use a more stable exercise that you can overload like a human. Cable lateral raise or even chest supported dumbel lateral raise is a milion times more stable and u can overload the exercise far easier
I haven’t watched this video yet, but what i will say is that i’ve been working out for over 2 years now, and i was at a 6 month plateau. I broke that plateau after incorporating a lot of Jeff’s advice, and now im stronger than i’ve ever been. No matter if people think he doesn’t know what he’s talking about (which i’m pretty sure he does,” he helped me get bigger and that’s proof he did something right
@tobbele1010 @nadanadie12 @xboxgamer120120 a lot of it had to do with emphasizing the stretch, like he said. I incorporated a lot of exercises that really stretched the muscle, most of which I got from his tier list videos. For example, I watched one of his videos that talked about doing an angled dumbbell lateral raise, and so far my delts have been way bigger. I also started doing incline/flat cable flies for chest, behind the back cable curls, belt assisted calf raises, and a ton of others. Another thing that he helped me with was form. I learned that leaning back on quad extensions, and leaning forward on hamstring curls really stretch the muscles, which got my squat up from 225lbs to 365lbs for reps. Also, his behind the back cable kickbacks and EZ bar overhead triceps extensions have really grown my triceps. My overhead triceps extensions went from 80-90lbs to 120-130lbs for reps. Overall, he's really helped me not only get bigger, but get way stronger.
To many folks out there who talk out of the arse because they pull their talking points out from the snow channel. I have been lifting for close to 30 years and after listening to Jeff's advice about incorporating the stretch element in the lift I have found amazing results! especially at my age of 47 and I can't do the type of workouts I used to do when i was in my 20s and 30s since my joints aren't just what they used to be.. Thanks Jeff for doing the homework and letting the rest of us borrow your notes!
Full ROM contains the lengthened partial portion. I think this study actually supports the hypothesis that lengthened partials portion is the main portion responsible for the majority of muscle growth.
I think the intent of the study was direct comparison. Full range of motion is the baseline, so you have to use it. I think this study shows clear evidence that the lengthened partial is the business end of the lift, so now they need to find a way to compare net time under tension, which could mean higher volume, same fatigue in LP.
As a graduating Ex Scientist from Australia, this is a great research study. Great method and I love the holistic view you present on both sides of training.
Great video as always. I’d also like a study where after full ROM, the subjects do lengthened partials vs just stopping, and see how much of a difference there is.
@@MobikSaysStuff Good, the thing about the right is.....We are right. 90% of men who lift are right wing. I think you ment "Mike turned out to be even more of a legend when we found out he is on the right"
Love that despite all the contrarians, Jeff Nippard still continues what he does best. He went ahead and further expanded the studies trying to understand what's going on. Data wins overall. You may "feel" or "think" something is a certain way but knowing for certain what is and what is not will always yield what you expect. Appreciate your hard work and dedication! 💪
@@Kinky-Kirby Yes, but if you usually train using both arms with barbells, pullup bars, etc, your dominant arm might be doing slightly more work. So when you then train them separately one might expect the less developed arm to grow slightly more.
@@BeavisGoFIREFIREFIRE like how would you set the weights in first place, right? I always work both sides at the same time and i set the weight to be hard enough for the weaker hand so it would definitely be easier for my right arm (good one) to lift, if i did them separately
You cant have higher increases because of muscle dominance that is in any way significant if you have people who been lifting for 5 years. Its not like they've been lifting with one arm exclusively so the other now sees newbie gains. But regardless, the simple solution would be to have half of them work left-full ROM, right LLP, and the other half left LLP, right full ROM
Love the dedication to actually perform a study. It would be really cool to see how the effect of lengthened partials changes over time, i.e at what point in lifting does the difference between lengthened partials and full rom become negligible (if it even does)
our focus on the importance of the stretched part of a lift is a refreshing perspective that challenges conventional wisdom. I found your discussion on the study design particularly insightful. By using a within-subjects approach, you effectively control for genetic variability, which is often overlooked in fitness research. This method not only strengthens the validity of your findings but also provides a clearer picture of how different training modalities impact muscle growth. Additionally, I think it’s crucial to highlight the practical applications of your findings for everyday lifters. Many people may not realize that incorporating lengthened partials can enhance their training results, especially for those who may struggle with full range of motion due to mobility issues. I’m excited to see the results of your study and how they might influence the broader fitness community. Keep pushing the boundaries of our understanding in training science!
It would be interesting to see a study where : One group does full range of motion and, Other group does full range of motion until failure then continues length partials until failure
One thing I feel like the anti-stretch/lengthened partial crowd doesn’t acknowledge is that performing an exercise in that way can sometimes cut out excessive fatigue. They’ll say “well, see, no statistical difference so just do full reps”, but if you cut out the squeeze part of the movement on something like a fly or lat pulldown I’d wager you’re cutting out a lot of fatigue as well. Both intra-workout, and accumulative over a training block, meaning there’s potential to perform more sets, accrue more stimulus, and still adequately recover.
I totally disagree. The lengthened position is way more fatiguing relative to contraction based exercises. Preacher curls are better than spider curls, but you can do way more sets of spider curls.
the lengthened part of a lift is the most damaging portion of the lift so you're actually completely wrong. And no muscles don't grow from "micro-tears"
@@sebbiesydenham3077 If I was talking only about producing more physical damage to the muscle, I would agree. But I was mostly talking in terms of nervous system fatigue. Like going psycho mode on the last few reps of the pulldown insisting on having the bar touch your chest on every rep. Personally, I find that it’s there where I get the most fatigued, and if I cut that part out I’m able to go harder and feel better on the subsequent sets than if I spent a lot of energy on that squeeze portion of the rep.
@@symphinx you’re wrong again. If you’re matching RIR then the systemic fatigue will be the same. The only difference is muscle fatigue from LLP is greater than full Rom. More muscle damage, more fatigue, longer recovery time. All of that for no added hypertrophy benefit. LLP are literally a pointless concept being pushed by PHD holders for clicks online.
Man, i've been training with DISGUSTING ROM for years. It's been great for not just building MUSCLE, but ALSO mobility and my ability to move well as a martial artist. It's funny that this stuff is argued so much...but that's what people love to do.
It’s always so funny to me when people are like “I don’t train full ROM because I don’t wanna get injured” like my dude training full ROM is exactly what prevents those injuries since you’re strengthening even and especially the weakest positions in the movement
Exactly. Full ROM makes you more mobile. In the end when you lose mobility over time with partial garbage, your gaind and health with suffer. But whatever. People reinventing the wheel as usual. Full ROM is the only way to go combined with a stretch.
@@robertmusil1107 This is contradictory. You don't need the shortened half of a bicep curl to stretch your triceps when you're doing the lengthened half of an overhead tricep extension, and vice versa. Unless your program is poorly designed and excludes muscles and muscle groups to begin with, where do you think you're losing mobility work? How? Do you feel an intense stretch while simply standing and slightly bending your knees, AKA the other shortened half of a squat?
The thing I've taken from lengthened partials is you can take full ROM to within 1 of failure, then crank out a few more with a lengthened partial to potentially get a lit a bit more out of it.
Honestly ive been working out for a year and then decided to give more attention to the form, the range of motion, controlling the negative AND choosing exercises focusing on a deep stretch and holding it for about 2 seconds. And my gains skyrocketed. I aint saying this is the holy grail, but i changed something in my trainingstyle and something changed in my gains... thats just what im sayin 🤷♂️
I'm surprised you felt 8 weeks was enough to gauge any difference between the two training styles in terms of muscle growth. For experienced lifters (5+ years) which they seem to have used in this study, 8 weeks isn't a long time at all to make gains. On that note, the approximate 6% of muscle growth measured in the test subjects surprises me the most. We're looking at roughly .75 - .8% of weeky muscle growth. Keep at it for another 6 months and make 20% more muscles? Seems insane to me for an experienced, non enhanced lifter. I took a look at the study and seems like they used ultrasound so I feel measurements should be pretty accurate. But wouldn't we all be absolutely massive if we made .75% muscle growth weekly even after 5+ years of working out? Interesting video though. Good work
Yeah, this also surprises me. I remember watching videos were person trains one body part for month and then checks the result, and I was always wondering, why results are so visible, like wouldn’t ppl be super jacked after 1 year if same growth applied??
Jeff is supposed to be Mr. Science communicator, I really feel he needs to explain this in a comment or a separate video. Did they measure the growth immediately after 8 weeks? I wonder if the 6% muscle growth would have deflated away if they had the participants do a wash out period of "maintenance" training for 4-8 weeks before measuring the muscle sizes.
You are right that jeff should have discussed that. Let me try to answer it for you. As was mentioned in the video. The people in the study were training harder than they usually did, in addition, it is likely that they were more mindful of their diet due to participating in the study because of the novelty and seriousness.
first of all these numbers dont work like this. Second of all, its tough to find so many people that will do tough stuff for nothing for a prolonged time...
I have been lifting since I was 12. I'm 32 now. I'm 5'6 and my max bench was 350 (weighing 158lbs, natural). A big part of lifting, for me, has been understanding that it's just not that complicated. Do what works for you, to an extent. ROM is important and improves your physique. I am completely content where I am at naturally. Being 5'6, the extra lbs make a difference. So, I lift to maintain. I don't go crazy anymore. I workout 30-40 mins max. There's no need to be in the gym for 2-3 hours.
Full ROM or Partials? Why not both? Full ROM in the beginning and then take your set to failure with partials at the stretched portion of the lift. Beauty Vid Jeff!
@@savonmies8479 dont do it every set with every exercise obviously. Should depend on what body part is your focus at that time or how rested you are etc.
This is exactly how to respond to criticism. Let go of your ego, put science and studies behind it, and find the best way to do something and share it with everyone. You're the best Jeff.
This! Jeff is pretty humble and listens to others. I dig the dude
It's crazy though if you apply science to other areas of life nowadays it doesn't seem to matter as much. Feelings and opinions seem to trump the science and facts
@bluejay2623 It depends, in the medical field, science and fact are respected. In politics it's thrown out the window. When it comes to fitness feeling I prioritized. Some people still think creatine is 100% placebo to every single person.
✏️
thats what they waiting for.
Its if you try to feed a Demon in your House with anger and fear to beat him.
Dude is so dedicated he funded an actual study to know how to train best
Support those doing studies for sure but remember one study does not = fact and another study could be done that shows completely different results. Take those single studies as bits of evidence to put toward the bigger pile you sort out to form your own opinion, and always be open to changing it if/when evidence supports it.
For size, nothing more. That only serves an esthetic purpose, not a practical one.
@@TyaColono....? Those studies are then peer reviewed by people smarter than you who point out all the flaws and the infomation is expanded from there
It isn't a fact it becomes theory which is practically a fact
Your opinion going againts a peer reviewed study is wrong because the peer reviewed study is right. There can be different studies with different bases, but that will always be right....its like saying "form your own opinion on gravity"
There can be advancements that change building however this proof will still have better results we can learn something that says a 4th method is better but that dosnt disprove that of the 3 this one is better
Biology won't change since this is in the context of the other 3 as long as a study is proven testes and peer reviewed it's as close to a fact as possible
A theory can be expanded apon but not disproven unless you littrally disproven the entire baseline to biology
@@diveblock2058 Everything you said is true and I agree, but my counter is this: Literally doesn’t matter how sure you are a single study or an entire body of work is “fact”, if you’re following the scientific method and using critical thinking you will more than likely come to the same conclusion on your own, and your conclusion will change when appropriate evidence arrives.
Thus imo we’re much better off preaching constant and never ending skepticism and open-minded thinking than trying to insist one thing is right. The fact of the matter is as much evidence we have in favor of the theory of gravity at some point we could (or could not) find new contradictory evidence that forces the scientific community to rethink what is “fact”. And if you preach to everyone how gravity is an undebatable fact, then new evidence arises, the general public, not understanding the scientific method, will call you a hypocrite and further distrust science. Look at the pandemic to see that exact principle at work.
And it was a waste of resources, who would have guessed
Muscle growth with full ROM: 6.6% increase
Muscle growth w lengthened partials: 5.9% increase
My respect for Jeff: 200% increase
200% of 0 = 0… love you really Jeff and you did not need to respond to the haters at all, let alone smash them out the park with this.
Thanks for the great content Jeff
@@liama2846so was he right about the stretch or not?
@WizzlyBearW0rms well jeff does talk about stretching alot 😏
doesn't that increase on both methods seem little high for trained individuals tho? 5-6% in a year is nuts let alone 2 months,
So you’re telling me someone doing a full ROM on a flat barbell bench press, chest to bar, won’t see significantly more growth, than someone doing partial reps, half the distance that the bar travels?
I call BS.
lol I got 4 minutes into this video and just burst into laughter with the realization. "No wonder they don't like this guy. He's actually intelligent"
I can't imagine anything worse than having a dream featuring Greg
it's called a nightmare😂
@@hunterbritton1134 😂😂
Spending money on turk
As you scream a Cartman style "Nooooooooo" with floating cookbooks all around.
😂😂😂😂
Jeff is my favorite lifting influencer on TH-cam. Not only is he natty and still impressively big, but he puts a ton of effort to put good info into his vids and make them look great. He’s also very humble
Not natty but still the GOAT
Definitely not natty but still gives some of the best advice on TH-cam
@@erantrab yeah ur dumb lol 💀💀💀💀💀
@@erantrabYou must be a bot
@@nickm724you must be a bot
So I'll just keep doing partials after I can't do full ROM reps anymore, like I've done for years at the point. No harm, no foul, takes balls to make and release a video like this, hats off to all who made this possible.
I'm wondering why this is not the conclusion Jeff took. It seems like the perfect combination.
I follow one of his training programs and this is exactly what he recommends when lifting heavy for low reps
Try do partials when squatting 6 plates or RDL'ing 7 then?
definitely agree that this is the best of both worlds! biggest (in both senses of the word lmao) person i can think of who does this in their own training is GVS, and his effort levels and physique certainly speak for themselves lmao. starting with full ROM and then doing lengthened partials to failure literally lets you have your cake and eat it too
@@yannini11 The conclusion I took from this is that lengthened partials is another addition to the volume/intensity balance where the two variables each add growth but at the cost of recovery. A blanket statement that you should always finish your sets with lengthened partials does not take into account the recovery cost of doing those which is arguably the most important variable. Your training should be adapted to train just hard enough to allow you to recover and currently most people who train hard probably are already at this point and adding lengthened partials will not add significantly more stimulus but will add enough recovery cost to push them over that boundary.
Tl;dr: Since this doesn't add anything significant the same principles as before still apply. Manipulate volume and intensity to keep you recovered and ready for the next session without also leaving a lot in the tank.
Lengthened partials can be a variable to add but doing so would necessitate that you remove volume or intensity elsewhere.
You have no idea how much your videos have helped me mentally and physically. I was at a really low point in my life, but I started locking in, and your videos helped me a lot. Thank you so much!
Full range of emotion
I can never finish those sets
@@mfrebel7831 What do you mean by not finishing? That you don’t hit a certain rep range? If that’s the case, lower the weight until you’re within your target range and only raise it when you move outside of that range consistently
@@TyaColo read again brother
professor density
@@TeNou7 bro needs full range of reading comprehension
what a concise, scientifically-sound, calm response to the call-outs. inspirational as a lifter and as a human who can take criticism and respond like an adult, a rarity nowadays, jeff is what a person should strive to be.
he's not gonna have sex with you
This is the SOOOO Jeff to respond to hate with a personally funded study that specifically focuses on the points his critics were using to diminish the studies he was citing.
Person*
I HAVE ALL OF JEFFS PROGRAMS. CAN COME TELL ME WHAT TO START WITH? THEN WHATS NEXT ALL THE WAY THROUGH
@@kx7500 agreed.
He was so fed up with people talking shit while not reading his referenced studys that he made one himself.
Madlad.
Really great video Jeff!
that's a bit of an exageration, he himself admitted they had an argument
But yeah, great video Jeff!!
Yeah and it turned out the shittalkers were right.
@@robertmusil1107yeah you didn’t really watch the video. They were pretty much the same
If you would read his referenced studies, you'd see how similar most of that science based lifting is to r/science. Take some (in part poorly done) studys, misrepresent their results and hope people only bother to read at most the headlines.
For example he linkes study "Training in the Initial Range of Motion Promotes Greater Muscle Adaptations Than at Final in the Arm Curl". If you read the study, you'll see in the result section, that partial lengthened reps only significantly increase CSA at 70% distal length, but not overall CSA.
Same goes for the new "study". The results show no significant difference, but they go on to claim that the reason for that, is that full ROM is just an extended partial rep. (By the way they can't even show no difference to a significant level, because the design was poor).
@@robertmusil1107Did you not absorb anything you just watched?
The study was focused on full range of motion compared to stretched partials, and they were equal. Meaning you get the same exact gains from doing half of the rep in the stretched portion of the lift. Meaning that the stretched portion of the lift is where you are building your muscle.
The 2 biggest questions after seeing this:
1. How did you take into consideration the “crossover effect” when accounting for differences? We know that with individuals who injure a limb that often times doing exercises with the healthy/functioning side or limb results in a noticeable effect on compensation through adaption with the other. So, with this study we understand that the idea was to balance out the groups by splitting left vs right sides in case you had someone genetically gifted, but we realize that because of the crossover effect variable, your data was potentially skewed towards the null outcome. This explains why the before mentioned studies testing separate groups on full ROM vs lengthened partials had larger variances. Knowing the physiological effects of the crossover effect, I think this explains the almost null outcome and further evaluation is needed. I still think the “only lengthened partials” group is onto something, we just need more of those studies to achieve an accurate conclusion.
2. While not as important from a hypertrophic standpoint (which I believe was the primary goal of this particular experiment in the video) I am extremely interested on the effects of tendon/ligament strengthening. For instance, while I might get the same muscle-building benefits from lengthened partials vs full ROM, what about my tendon strength? As an example, most would advise to drop weight on preacher curls and focus on full ROM because a major concern would be a breakage of the bicep tendon. The same could be said for a squat, leg extension, pulldown, etc. I realize that the lengthened partials already work the most vulnerable/effective position for hypertrophy, but would there be more protection and benefit to the overall strength of the human body to prevent injury and increase mobility by doing full ROM? I’m extremely interested because if lengthened partials vs full ROM end up having the same outcome for hypertrophy, but there is a significant increase in overall tendon strength and mobility with full ROM, then overall, full ROM would be superior.
ah, my question, just asked better two weeks ago!
I really wouldn’t consider the crossover effect at all. It isn’t supported by any data and, even among its claims, it’s mostly a strength based transference with little to no mention of hypertrophy, which is what this study is testing.
On point 2, tendon/ligament strength is just not a very well understood concept. Period. We barely understand it mechanically, and we have no idea to the extent or ability.
Here I’m getting a bit out of my depth so don’t repeat anything here as fact, but tendon/ligament injury is just not a massive concern or even point of improvement for natural lifters. If your tendons or ligaments break, it’s at their ATTACH points, not the bellies, and there’s really nothing you can do about that, period. Your tendons and ligaments also just aren’t prone to long term injury. Most of what people experience as “tendon pain” is actually a joint misalignment/pain causing an inflammation in the tendons, not a weakness of the tendon itself. Again, not something you can particularly “train” against, other than treating whatever imbalance is causing the problem. You aren’t going to fix patellar maltracking by strengthening your knee cap ligaments. Unless you have a degenerative disorder, your only risk of injuring a ligament or tendon is hyperflexion, working out cold, or lifting beyond your means. Thats where preacher curls become a problem, people tend to hyperflex on them.
Good questions. I just watched the Will Tennyson + Magnus videos and Magnus (as a pro climber) does a ton of both, but obviously lots more fully stretched movements. He was pound for pound stronger than Will in almost every metric except shoulder press I think? So yeah for sports I think full range movements are the essential movements to avoid injury and keep your entire body strong.
bro start your own channel I ain't reading that ish
Good questions! I would love to see Jeff elaborate on this
Love the approach and the fact that the results where not necessarily going 100% in the direction you "wanted" is a big plus in terms of credibility on your side. Good job guys.
Results not being as hoped or "expected" is an incredibly flawed way to think about trust/credibility.
@@Generic_Name_1-1 yeah, the results were not what he expected, and he still posted it, he could have just not.
It was so funny to hear Dr. Wolf, Dr. Pak, Dr. Helms, and then Dr. Mike all come on one after another. Talk about a dream team! So this is the study they've been talking about for months on the podcasts!
I think this is most valuable to know if you struggle with maintaining form through the whole range of motion, or have a weird injury or something that makes doing it at the shortened length feel wrong. I'm thinking specifically about lateral raises in my case; my upper traps try to help when they shouldn't if I try to do the full ROM at heavier weights. If I can only go 75% of the way and get the same benefit, then that's awesome.
IMO a big point people miss is that the main reason talking about the stretch is SO important is because most lifters I see in the gym ,if they are making any mistakes, its that they avoid the lengthened portion of most lifts because its harder! So whether you are using Full ROM or lengthened partials, both are a vast improvement over half repping in the shortened position by cutting depth on movements like squats, bench, curls, etc. Keep spreading the good word Jeff. You’re the man!
I agree, the reason it's important is to know about this is that if you are going to go partial go lengthened partial instead of chasing the squeeze, i.e. in biceps, and to suck it up and take the pain of going for the stretch.
Absolutetly. Even some of those critizising are actuall not doing full range often and precisely skip the lengthen portion. Is not just the people in my opinion, but also the fact that some classical exercises themselves (how they were designed) as well as some machines promote skipping this part of the range, and this should serve as a reason to get rid of those exercises/machines.
100% agree with this comment. Whether or not “lengthened partials” are superior to full ROM or “worth programming” is up to the individual. But without question this proves that the muscle is built during the stretch portion of the movement.
@@Jensen_Gamingthere are exercises we ALL know Work well that Never reach the most stretched positon. Like the ohp and the regular bench press. I Wonder If the mid position Works as well as the most stretched position.
@marketlider2811 that is just not true. Maybe the way some people do the bench press, leaving the bar 5 CMS away from the chest, as I do folks do in the gym constantly, yes. If you do a proper bench press with your back arched (add an irregular bar for extra stretch) you are definitely hitting the stretch positions. As for the OHP not sure I guess you are meaning chest, well, not the best exercise to train chest. Do some proper dips instead and let me know how sore you are feeling next day.
Simple: do a combination of both. Start with full range and then add lengthen partials when needed. I’ve done this with rest pause sets and cluster sets and worked wonders. The key is controlling the intensity and volume when doing lengthen partials on certain exercises (ex. Lengthen partials on a leg press vs preacher curl)
Now this is what we call trust worthy fitness influencer. Rather than just sell bs he went to do a study just to see what works. Respect
@@jessebrill145the partials on the Biceps showed better results
@@jessebrill145Do you actually know what statistical significance is? Because it's not just something based on vibes, it's actual math.
@@jessebrill145 im guessing you dont read much scientific research.
@@jessebrill145tell me you dont know scientific studies without telling me you dont know about scientific studies.
@@jessebrill145 bro careful you're going to fry your last braincell thinking this hard
Good on you, dude. That's how you take down the haters
He's not gonna let you hit 🙏
@@durpswagjr3962Grow up.
What a dorky comment. Poop out TD
@@durpswagjr3962💀
Can’t wait for Rick “De-La-Stick” Bugenhagen to turn this 13 minute video into a 3 part, 4 hour long saga.
I can't wait to see it.
😂 same
He’s definitely the GOAT out of all of these influencers
yes haha
ALRIGHTY FELLAS
As a new viewer of your content, I heard someone say that unlike other fitness influencers it truly feels like youre trying to help everyone. That alone was enough to make check you out!
In my opinion the best recipe is this:
- full ROM
- deep stretch (with slight pause)
- slow negative
- lengthened partials on the last 2-3 reps when full ROM can no longer be achieved
R u small be honest
This is the way
Agreed. Even if focusing on full stretch doesn't add more muscle, being strong in the bottom, full stretch makes lifting safer. People hurt themselves on bench or preacher curls cause they dont train to fullnstretch and lift out of it.
@@danieltriestolift bro you need to relax, I'm definitely bigger than you and i agree with him.
does your recipe also include increased muscle damage and calcium ion fatigue?
My favorite thing about Jeff is that he is always open to seeing if he's wrong and changing his opinion based on research
Yes!
I agree, it's great, and the core of science in general. People often misinterpret science as this definitive dogma, when really science is based on the continuous evolution of collective knowledge in a way that controls for as many variables as possible.
That is the scientific method after all and so as a scientific lifter this is actually to be expected. Lots of respect for his method.
Why the fuck would he lie
My favorite thing about Jeff is his mic set up. Being able to hear how C R E A M Y the inside of his mouth is during every video is incredible!
Hats off to you. Funding and publishing this study even though it is not totally in line with your own theories is very respectable. Cudos.
This is totally in line with his theories
Yeah, my only concern is the duration of the reps, did the partial group hold the rep for half the time? Equal time?
@@arunkarthikma3121 the only difference between partial group and full ROM group was the range of motion. Everything else was equal including controlling the eccentric, slight pause and explosive concentric. Therefore we can say that the lifters made equal gains with lengethened partials as compared to full ROM in less time.
@@TurdBoi666 Yep - unfortunately not many lifters know about experimental science - so they think one set of results "proves" that result. This is despite all of the science-based guys on TH-cam repeatedly explaining why many studies looking at exactly the same hypothesis are needed.
Jeff, I love your attention to detail and not getting lost in the weeds! As a registered nurse and working through injuries and many patient's with inferior/superior limb injuries, the control set by the same person is still receiving the centrally nervous system stimulation. First hand, I had a rotator cuff repair in November of 2023. Attempting to become as lopsided as possible went from bicep at 16.25" to 13.5" within 2 weeks (grrr bicep muscle fibers lose the quickest). Whenever you have a person with a knee or upper extremity injury, I always recommend getting the other side as strong as possible to facilitate a quicker recovery. I dig the information and have detailed training logs with rep/set count information for the past year. The variable of CNS stimulation may be an interesting underlying variable to take into consideration...Thanks again!
My preference is full ROM with a deep stretch on every rep, plus some lengthened partials after failure on the last set. Best of all worlds, IMO
Thought the same! Also its fun to do that way
Spot on !!
My thought process as well. You can finish your working set, and continue to push a bit past failure by doing a few lengthened partials reps.
@@SSSauceyBuns oh my God, beautiful beautiful way of training, i do that too.
true bro, everybody wants maximal fatigue with minimal gains, truly good choice
The most humble and honest. With huge knowledge and experience. With high quality content that feel bad to watch without paying. Clearly the best.
you are paying, he gets paid when you watch ads and watch the video
@@meatsauce12 no he's not the money isn't coming out of his pockets, if you wanna be a smart ass at least be correct
Time is money and he spends his time watching ads which equals to Jeff making money
“Smartass”..
Thanks for going through the effort to carry out this experiment Jeff.
I've made a video about "1.5 reps" on my channel, integrating full rom + lengthened partials for the best of both worlds (size & strength)
Keep up the good work mate
the goat has spoken
🤝
The length of the motion has almost nothing to do with strength/size. You determine those with volumen of reps and rest times.
This video literally just proven that full ROM and LLP are exactly the same for hypertrophy
@@AstBun1 No, the evidence points to Shortened partials being less effective than lengthened partials. Length does matter, maybe, sorta
Isn't Jeff cute🥰🥰
I think the way Jeff went about this was awesome. He took matters into his own hands, along with the team that helped, and conducted new research to honestly test this out. I always enjoy seeing what he has to post!
I love the fact that you showed this. It gives a real sense of wanting to be transparent and helps build trust in what you say.
Bro really said fine I will do it myself
John Meadows program , has been incorporating Full Rom and Partials reps for ages even before these studies. Hes a legend indeed. Way ahead of his time. RIP MountainDog
Jeff is one of the most humble, high EQ intelligence, especially people in fitness field I ever seen.
Admired to how you respond criticism and we all should learn from this.
Having Coach Greg yelling in my sleep is the fuel of night mares!! I fully appreciate Jeff's approach, not calling people out, not saying others are idiots, he just gets in does the research produces the information and facts. Love it... What about full ROM until you hit close to failure and the lengthened partials until complete failure?
Jeff's one of the few guys I still follow on youtube. Levelled takes, good science, and doesn't have another youtube channel with weird AF philosophy like a certain other influencer.
@@happystixwho?
@@miss_fit he's talking about israetel
@@drinkinouttacups2665 thank you!
I would trust Jeff over Greg EVERY. SINGLE. TIME.
Pleasure working on this study king 🙏🏻 thank you so much for your help. Detailed breakdown of the study on my channel!
So happy to see you rapidly growing. Keep striving and stay strong 💪
I wanted to put this here so hopefully you’ll see it as I’d be interested in your opinion. Thanks BRO!
I think one aspect that has been overlooked/not mentioned was the fact that they went to failure. This is significant since it affects how many reps people do for partials and full ROM. Since the work being done for each rep is less for partials than full ROM, the subjects will end up doing more partials than full rom. However, when you look at time under stretch/resistance for both treatments, there would be an insignificant difference. This has gotten me thinking, maybe the reason that stretched positions may increase muscle gains is because your muscles act almost like a rubber band under tension when stretched. They hold some of the energy in and this in turn gives you a small boost when initially applying force. What does this mean? It means you essentially cheat the system and save energy. This saved energy means you can output more total work for your muscle which results in slightly more muscle development. Just some food for thought.
Would you frame the results as: "Full ROM works BECAUSE it includes the lengthened/stretched position"?
all hair the short king manlet in Greg Doucette's voice :D
@@marzoval9551 that’s exactly what I was thinking when they discussed the results
0:33 why are they saying "THE STRETCH" like its some unheard of, barbaric gimmick 💀 its literally just how you do a rep in the gym, every rep has a stretch
I have switched my focus to the stretch portion of the lifts and the difference was rapid and very clear to me personally. Milk the stretch is the way to go.
No, you just ate and rested better.
As a beginner lifter myself, it changed my results drastically, probably due to the 'sarcomeres in series' effect (an area I was lacking due to sarcopenia/shortening from extreme sedentary lifestyle)
Reality: MOST people watching this stuff are in the 'average/beginner' category. Relatively few are advanced lifters.
The benefit to those who need it most, vastly outweighs any 'overhype' negative effect to already trained lifters.
@@HJDfWrawRWRwa damn I didn't know you had a video cam set up in this dude's house
@@HJDfWrawRWRwathanks doc for your incredibly well thought out opinion! I’m sure you were watching bro day and night and were able to come to that conclusion!
I definitely also made some huge improvements starting to focus on the stretch but also on full range of motion. I got very quick visible results even though I was training for 4 years when I started to pay attention to it. But two years later I would say that yes there was a visible and quick improvement but it slowed down pretty quickly as well.
How can you hate this man
He is extremely serious in his job and genuinely wants the best for the fitness industry and is READY to let go of his ego and being unbaised in his tests 😅
Truly the face of natural and scientific bodybuilding
Are you the dude who got insulted by Greg?
Because the science based ppl are cringe and ruined lifting.
@@AmericanPatriot-dn7iy they didnt ruin lifting bro you can literally do what you want when you go to the gym💀
@@hayden4988 should I expand on what I mean? Idk if I feel like getting into a comments battle right now. I’ll say this and then leave. Yeah obviously I know I can do what I want in the gym. I have other reasons for saying it shined lifting.
@@MagouSallaGueye the dude Greg crashed out on yes
It was funny af
Jeff Nipples proving yet again that he's a class act. I was waiting for a video like this.
But can he also prove that horsecocking hefty loads is not the best way to get succulent and dense?
Yes, his nipples are proving it.
@@LordOfNoobstownhello, fellow follower of the school of 🐴 🐔
Jeff Nipples my favourite fitness influencer
@@LordOfNoobstown I think most people will agree getting injured is not the best way to get more muscular.
I’ve been working out for months, and after starting your program, I’m feeling muscles I have never felt in my life. It feels amazing.
This video officially crowns Jeff Nippard as the GOAT fitness YTer.
He is humble enough to listen to his critics. He doesn’t make a wild reaction video screaming and ranting into the camera to defend himself and in turn exposes his insecurities.
Instead, in his typical Jeff Nippard’s neutral tone, he made an entire video purely to seek for the objective truth nothing else, risking having egg on his face in front of all of his viewers. And when the actual results came out, he could have sugar-coated the video or not post the video altogether. But he didn’t.
His dedication to educating the masses of real fitness knowledge for purely the benefit of his viewers is unmatched.
We did not just watch a fitness video. We watched how to take criticism and react like a real human being should. God bless this man.
Why not the other youtubers he teamed up with here?
its mostly genetics to start with. all they talk about is a minimum of 5% increase of anything, after doing a "correct" excercise. the rest is influencer bullshit to sell your channel .
You have a pretty low bar for a GOAT of YT. There are literally dozens of better channels out there
Not until he does the SAME study again, but with Greg's cookbook and Turk!
@@tomashorst9544i am looking for some, can you tell what those channels are?
This was such an insightful experiment! It's fascinating to see that lengthened partials can be just as effective as full range of motion. Definitely going to incorporate more of this into my training. Great work and thanks for backing it up with solid research! 💪🔥
Jeff is what I strive to be. Not physically, but a man of craft and passion. He truly loves and is fascinated by the art and science of body building, it's why I love him. I gravitated to him initially bc I am also a short guy, but as time has gone on, his value has greatly exceeded that.
Keep being you jeff, I wouldn't want it any other way.
''not physically'' bruh, what's so bad abotu looking like him???
I strive to be him physically too
@@FridgemaxxedHybridoreanL-wi6rg I think he's just pointing out that he meant this particular admiration that he is referring to is an admiration of character, despite his impressive physique or indifferent to it.
8:22 the " hey!! I care about this stuff " respect for that man. Recently started working out, appreciate all the guidance you give🙏🙏❤️
Man I am a normal guy and I really like your channel. You and Dr. Mike have so much content and leading information on how to train and be better during out workouts that is helping me A LOT. The part of the connection with the muscle, focusing on controlling the work out and progress every day, day after day is starting to show smalls results and I’m really proud of myself. Thanks for sharing tour knowledge with us and help us improve. Cheers from Brazil 💚
I'm more of a subscriber to Boogs' methodology for lifting, but will always respect Jeff for stuff like this. Honest and open minded. Even if Jeff was wrong, so what if he is willing to set aside his ego to showcase a study that benefits everyone's lifting. Mad props for doing this.
Who is Boogs
How was he wrong though? The differences are not statistically significant. We need more studies to be confident about him being wrong.
Why would you conclude that he's wrong?
@@pauluribe-mendoza2726 Obviously he means that his hypothesis for the outcome of this study was wrong, which it was.
@@j.gwells5252 A horse.
This is basically the Avengers teaming up equivalent of TH-cam fitness researchers AND I AM HERE FOR IT
I used to watch Jeff when I first started at the gym several years ago. Came back for the first time in years, fuck me he is killing it. Millions of views every video wow. Congrats
"Participants were instructed not to perform any additional upper-body RT (resistance training) outside of the study protocol but were permitted to perform lower-body RT and other physical activities at their discretion." In case anyone else was wondering.
Kind of an odd thing to allow. The hormonal effects of that physical activity might have potentially influenced the growth of some participants
Not too odd noting that having s*x counts as lower body physical activity and/or maybe RT based on the position
@@familyonly2164why would that matter.... The measurements are from the same person.
If someone had done lots of cardio during these 8 weeks that can affect muscle growth.
But in the end the statistical difference is insignificant
@@familyonly2164dude the video literally stated that to get rid of such confounding factors, each individual used one side of their body as the control (full ROM). when there is a within-sample control it literally does not matter whether they decided to do full marathons or sit at home and watch youtube.
As someone who teaches the interpretation and application of research in medicine, I greatly appreciate what Jeff has done here. The only thing I would have liked to have seen is an additional comparison with shortened partials (i.e. only focusing on the squeeze). As it stands, if lengthened partials and full ROM have statistically equivalent gains, that might suggest that it's just the stretch that's relevant. But that finding would also be consistent with it not mattering if one focuses on only the stretch, only the squeeze, or focusing equally on both. Obviously, there's a limitation that people only have 2 actual physical arms for the 2 figurative arms of a study in which they serve as their own control, so logistically, this would have required at least doubling the sample size.
I don't think he bothered to do that because the studies that have already been done show a significant downside to "shortened" partials. Both full ROM and lengthened partials come out way ahead
@@wredmatic Thanks for pointing that out. Do you know if those studies used beginner or experienced lifters?
@@StrongMed that's a good question; I don't know. But probably new lifters
shortened partials are out of the conversation and to run all three programs at the same time you would need six limbed lifters
@@wojciechsawicki4733 They already mentioned that in their comment
I don’t think Jeff gets enough credit for how incredibly good he is at video production. I would watch his videos no matter what they are about just because they’re so pleasing to the eye.
This has to be appreciated. Not only did Jeff actually fund and oversee a study just to update his knowledge (and by extension, ours too), but also he didn't shy away from sharing the results even when it wasn't emphatically in favor of what he's been saying all along
Props to you man! Your videos are helping a newbie lifter like me improve in heaps
Could you clarify just one thing though? Were the participants in the study doing the same reps in partials as full ROMs in the sets that weren't till failure? Or were all sets to failure?
Because I think we can get away with more reps if we do partials so that might also be a contributing factor to improving gains in lengthened partials
Edit: apparently a lot of people are not able to understand what I'm trying to ask. I'm asking how many reps on average did the participants do in partials and full ROMs.
Since Jeff has made another video where he talks about lower reps can provide more hypertrophy, so that might be an advantage for full ROMs since you can do more reps on partials
Exactly.. ridiculous to leave such part out. I mean you can use much bigger weights on lenghtened partials
I assume from what he said that both groups were doing to failure.
Both were going to failure, he said so
@@Ism0Lait3laHe said they were both going to failure genius
stop citing sources that just came out with few studies. look at the research that has been done for a long time. u can find sources and cite "science" on just about anything u want to. citing "science" that hasnt been researched well enough and making a video of it and call it ground breaking is just click bait
Jeff is the light to my darkness. The girth to my length. The glaze to my donut. The cream to my crops. The fertiliser to my seed. He brings out the best in everyone!
Slippery
couldnt have made him the length? :(
wipe your mouth when you're done, bro
wipe your mouth when you're done, bro
No Diddy!
You have no idea how many people appreciate that you point blank just conducted a study on it. That is the correct answer to every argument 👍🏾👍🏾👍🏾
dude at 0:45 criticizing while drinking a mountain dew :)
that’s tnf bro. he’s a good coach
People can still eat whatever they want as long as they show results. You're being quite shallow Steve
It's also a zero sugar mtn dew.
Mountain Dew is a sports drink, probably drinking it for energy
Been training 40 years always check Jeff's channel and learn something new..thanks man!!!
Just checked your channel garageman brutal training keep it up 🔥
Great training on your channel garageman 👍🏼 subbed
I love this mindset, instead of feeling the need to apologize when almost the whole fitness influencer community called him out saying he was wrong, he didnt step back and proved his point with his own study
I mean he proved nothing tho, full rom gives you more benefits on top of giving similar gains
I don't know the kind of fitness community you are following, I haven't seen a single guy saying anything negative about the lengthened partials. Maybe I'm in a bubble, I don't know, but listening to guys like Greg Doucette = disrespecting your own time and energy.
@@arturzinurov2146more benefits but similar gains? Bro read that sentence slowly. There isn’t any benefit over either that isn’t individual
@@arturzinurov2146 What are the "more benefits" you're referring to? According to this study, and others, doing only lengthened partials vs. full ROM accomplish virtually the same thing.
@@arturzinurov2146 The study found no significant evidence of a huge disproportion in muscles growth and given that the range of error of the study is around 0.8% and that you can do more lenghtened partials than full motions It really doesnt make a difference.
I prefer training with full motions Max stretch but the study did not prove him wrong
You gotta give Jeff credit for challenging his own beliefs and putting them to the test
It's called pseudo science, Jeff made up some "science" bs just to make content. Lifting ain't that complicated, it's quite simple, but if the influencers said that, they would run out of content. So they make goofy pseudo science bs up. And y'all eat it up. Get off the couch and you will see how easy it is to build muscle
@@kingiam9271 Jeff literally did whole scientific study, explained how he did everything, and you still called it pseudo science? You're not the smartest one, are you?
@@ShoomLa and the conclusion was there is no difference. I could of told you that. Next he will conduct a scientific study on wether working out at 9am is better than working out at 10am 😒🤦 let me save you the time. It doesn't matter. Yet you will be amazed at the results 🤣
😂😂😂@@kingiam9271
@kingjam9271 I never understood this perspective. Jeff wants to double check something we might all intuitively know as true, and then when he does, it turns out we were all right. Why are you upset with someone who simply double checked? You are saying it's a waste of time, but Jeff clearly didn't think so. Who are you to tell Jeff how to live his life? It's not bullshit, he literally just decided to observe something one time...
I’ve been working out for a few years now listening to you primarily. When I tell you ITS THE MF STRETCH that has made this year of training for me truly amazing and fulfilling. So thank you
The Lengthen Partials at the last few reps when I hit fatigue!! (Try to keep my form right) I think that’d be a good study
Jeff is the goat of the fitness industry fr. Creating your own study is the only real way to prove or disprove a point like this. Mad respect.
I did lengthened partial past full ROM failure before all these studies 😆 I think the issue some people are having with science-based fitness is that it takes away some people's focus from going and doing their own science in the gym lab, just getting good at LIFTING you know, good at building muscle. It's a skill and science can be used for that but you'll find the best answers to what works for you by experimenting and applying yourself in the gym. It shouldn't be exclusive but as trainer and coach, I've seen many people overthinking "science" before even being a consistent gym goer. Great work on the video and study still ofc 🙏
Yeah some people switch up their entire workout routine because of one study and stop thinking for themselves
I love Jeff Nippard so much, to be honest, my muscle grow like crazy after I watch his video, ngl bro, I have nothing to say more than thanking him
Honestly, this is why we subscribe. In contrast to Greg Doucette's "science, science, science [is dumb]", your cerebral take is why you are one of the best fitness TH-camrs on this platform. You are one thoughtful dude, and we appreciate it.
I've been lifting for almost 20 years since I was a teenager, and my chest has NEVER grown much despite all the different exercises out there, and despite strength increases in all aspects of upper body parameters.
6 months ago, I tried dips for the first time, along with paused push ups (bring sally up/down routine), putting emphasis on the stretched position.
My chest has grown more over the past 6 months with just bodyweight training, than the past 20 years of weight training/powerlifting.
It doesn't matter if you 're wrong. A humble man can accomplish more. Great video.
Ehhh he wasn’t really wrong. The fact that you can get the same gains means that (based on this data) lengthened partials are by far the most important component of a lift
@@MegaFunnyvids4u1problem is shortened partials would probably have been similar. We’ve known for years training simply isn’t usually the limiting factor for hypertrophy.
@@HkFinn83 You got any research to back that?
Rick Del Stick made it in the thumbnail Ricky knows how to get in the spotlight
Sticky Ricky on the thumbnail, let's gooooo
THANK YOU FOR BEING MY FRIEND 🗣🗣🗣
Ricki teaches us how to get jacked stacked succulent and dense
he makes my heart go FRICKK
🐴🐓
HOLY BUCKETS!!!!!!!
I'm relieved by the result. In my experience it all comes down to simplicity (find good exercise, push yourself, chart your results, exceed previous achievement) and anything that complicates your mindset is distraction. Now I can just get on with working out without worrying about the minutiae.
Respect for all the creators involved but honestly Jeff has the most entertaining edits
It's definitely still very impactful to our idea of how best to train overall. Like people have mentioned, a combination of the two methods could result in much greater gains. I can train an exercise with full ROM for say 10 reps before I can't do another full rep, and then switch to lengthened partials and get a few more reps. More volume, essentially more gains. Another thought, because you may be able to do more weight with a lengthened partial, you could use this as a progression scheme. Lateral raises come to mind immediately as going from the 20lb to 25lb dumbbells is a huge jump. Instead, I could do partials until I can do full ROM and then increase the weight. Reset back to partials, and so on. In the long term, this may result in greater gains purely because the lifter can continue to progressively overload in a more straight forward manner.
Doing more volume doesn't equal more gains, you just want to maximize mechanical tension(last 5 reps to failure) and minimize fatigue. And for the progression scheme thing, just use a more stable exercise that you can overload like a human. Cable lateral raise or even chest supported dumbel lateral raise is a milion times more stable and u can overload the exercise far easier
@@arsong9723 Crazy how wrong you are.
@@inkedgemini very insightful wow
I haven’t watched this video yet, but what i will say is that i’ve been working out for over 2 years now, and i was at a 6 month plateau. I broke that plateau after incorporating a lot of Jeff’s advice, and now im stronger than i’ve ever been. No matter if people think he doesn’t know what he’s talking about (which i’m pretty sure he does,” he helped me get bigger and that’s proof he did something right
What advise specifically?
Could you please share these advices?
Which tips did you follow to break the plateau?
@tobbele1010 @nadanadie12 @xboxgamer120120 a lot of it had to do with emphasizing the stretch, like he said. I incorporated a lot of exercises that really stretched the muscle, most of which I got from his tier list videos. For example, I watched one of his videos that talked about doing an angled dumbbell lateral raise, and so far my delts have been way bigger. I also started doing incline/flat cable flies for chest, behind the back cable curls, belt assisted calf raises, and a ton of others. Another thing that he helped me with was form. I learned that leaning back on quad extensions, and leaning forward on hamstring curls really stretch the muscles, which got my squat up from 225lbs to 365lbs for reps. Also, his behind the back cable kickbacks and EZ bar overhead triceps extensions have really grown my triceps. My overhead triceps extensions went from 80-90lbs to 120-130lbs for reps. Overall, he's really helped me not only get bigger, but get way stronger.
Lol post physique
To many folks out there who talk out of the arse because they pull their talking points out from the snow channel. I have been lifting for close to 30 years and after listening to Jeff's advice about incorporating the stretch element in the lift I have found amazing results! especially at my age of 47 and I can't do the type of workouts I used to do when i was in my 20s and 30s since my joints aren't just what they used to be.. Thanks Jeff for doing the homework and letting the rest of us borrow your notes!
Full ROM contains the lengthened partial portion. I think this study actually supports the hypothesis that lengthened partials portion is the main portion responsible for the majority of muscle growth.
Yes. That's what I'm confused about. Shouldn't the study have been long length vs short length?
@@petergianakopoulos4926yep
@@petergianakopoulos4926 tell jeff
I think the intent of the study was direct comparison. Full range of motion is the baseline, so you have to use it.
I think this study shows clear evidence that the lengthened partial is the business end of the lift, so now they need to find a way to compare net time under tension, which could mean higher volume, same fatigue in LP.
@@Tikemorris78 agreed and great way to put it
I can hear the hooves already thank you for beein my frieeenduh
🐎🐓
As a graduating Ex Scientist from Australia, this is a great research study. Great method and I love the holistic view you present on both sides of training.
Great video as always. I’d also like a study where after full ROM, the subjects do lengthened partials vs just stopping, and see how much of a difference there is.
Yeah, that's what I do, so it would be an interesting study on whether LPs are better or worse or the same as doing a drop set.
Thank You For Being My Friend! 🐎
One of the heads in your thumbnail completely agrees with you.
Mike, the second I saw him I was like "but mike says the same??" lol
@@Section8dc boom
@@MobikSaysStuffwhat does that have to do with this?
@MobikSaysStuff you gotta get off the internet lol
@@MobikSaysStuff Good, the thing about the right is.....We are right.
90% of men who lift are right wing.
I think you ment "Mike turned out to be even more of a legend when we found out he is on the right"
Love that despite all the contrarians, Jeff Nippard still continues what he does best. He went ahead and further expanded the studies trying to understand what's going on. Data wins overall. You may "feel" or "think" something is a certain way but knowing for certain what is and what is not will always yield what you expect.
Appreciate your hard work and dedication! 💪
The edits is so smooth, loved it!
2:28 this is such a well done visualisation of the muscles just for this tiny part of background footage. props to the Editor.
How did you account for the bias of right vs left muscle dominance? I feel like even trained people have muscle imbalances.
It's based on the % increase rather than the actual increase.
@@Kinky-Kirby Yes, but if you usually train using both arms with barbells, pullup bars, etc, your dominant arm might be doing slightly more work. So when you then train them separately one might expect the less developed arm to grow slightly more.
@@radix5315exactly what i thought, I don't know if he considered it
@@BeavisGoFIREFIREFIRE like how would you set the weights in first place, right? I always work both sides at the same time and i set the weight to be hard enough for the weaker hand so it would definitely be easier for my right arm (good one) to lift, if i did them separately
You cant have higher increases because of muscle dominance that is in any way significant if you have people who been lifting for 5 years.
Its not like they've been lifting with one arm exclusively so the other now sees newbie gains.
But regardless, the simple solution would be to have half of them work left-full ROM, right LLP, and the other half left LLP, right full ROM
Love the dedication to actually perform a study. It would be really cool to see how the effect of lengthened partials changes over time, i.e at what point in lifting does the difference between lengthened partials and full rom become negligible (if it even does)
Praise for you and the other muscle scholars for giving us the knowledge 🙏
can't wait for Dr. Density's 2 hour reaction video
Thank you for being my friend 💖
Damn Jeff standing on business respectfully 😤
This community is very fortunate too have y'all
our focus on the importance of the stretched part of a lift is a refreshing perspective that challenges conventional wisdom.
I found your discussion on the study design particularly insightful. By using a within-subjects approach, you effectively control for genetic variability, which is often overlooked in fitness research. This method not only strengthens the validity of your findings but also provides a clearer picture of how different training modalities impact muscle growth.
Additionally, I think it’s crucial to highlight the practical applications of your findings for everyday lifters. Many people may not realize that incorporating lengthened partials can enhance their training results, especially for those who may struggle with full range of motion due to mobility issues.
I’m excited to see the results of your study and how they might influence the broader fitness community. Keep pushing the boundaries of our understanding in training science!
It would be interesting to see a study where :
One group does full range of motion and,
Other group does full range of motion until failure then continues length partials until failure
Any gains in the second group would be attributed to an increase in lifting volume and not prove anything of note (probably)
Agreed
@@luke_zxy so add another group that only does partials maybe?
@@leonel91 if both groups do 10 reps and one group does an extra 5 partials, naturally the ones doing 15 reps while gain more than the ones doing 10
@@luke_zxy the question would be wether the extra volume is worth it or if it is a waste of time and energy
👍 for the vision and for all the effort to study it
One thing I feel like the anti-stretch/lengthened partial crowd doesn’t acknowledge is that performing an exercise in that way can sometimes cut out excessive fatigue. They’ll say “well, see, no statistical difference so just do full reps”, but if you cut out the squeeze part of the movement on something like a fly or lat pulldown I’d wager you’re cutting out a lot of fatigue as well. Both intra-workout, and accumulative over a training block, meaning there’s potential to perform more sets, accrue more stimulus, and still adequately recover.
I came looking for a comment like this. Agreed
I totally disagree. The lengthened position is way more fatiguing relative to contraction based exercises. Preacher curls are better than spider curls, but you can do way more sets of spider curls.
the lengthened part of a lift is the most damaging portion of the lift so you're actually completely wrong. And no muscles don't grow from "micro-tears"
@@sebbiesydenham3077 If I was talking only about producing more physical damage to the muscle, I would agree.
But I was mostly talking in terms of nervous system fatigue. Like going psycho mode on the last few reps of the pulldown insisting on having the bar touch your chest on every rep. Personally, I find that it’s there where I get the most fatigued, and if I cut that part out I’m able to go harder and feel better on the subsequent sets than if I spent a lot of energy on that squeeze portion of the rep.
@@symphinx you’re wrong again. If you’re matching RIR then the systemic fatigue will be the same. The only difference is muscle fatigue from LLP is greater than full Rom. More muscle damage, more fatigue, longer recovery time. All of that for no added hypertrophy benefit. LLP are literally a pointless concept being pushed by PHD holders for clicks online.
Man, i've been training with DISGUSTING ROM for years. It's been great for not just building MUSCLE, but ALSO mobility and my ability to move well as a martial artist. It's funny that this stuff is argued so much...but that's what people love to do.
It’s always so funny to me when people are like “I don’t train full ROM because I don’t wanna get injured” like my dude training full ROM is exactly what prevents those injuries since you’re strengthening even and especially the weakest positions in the movement
The squeeze is the strongest position of the muscle
Exactly. Full ROM makes you more mobile. In the end when you lose mobility over time with partial garbage, your gaind and health with suffer. But whatever. People reinventing the wheel as usual. Full ROM is the only way to go combined with a stretch.
@@robertmusil1107 This is contradictory. You don't need the shortened half of a bicep curl to stretch your triceps when you're doing the lengthened half of an overhead tricep extension, and vice versa. Unless your program is poorly designed and excludes muscles and muscle groups to begin with, where do you think you're losing mobility work? How? Do you feel an intense stretch while simply standing and slightly bending your knees, AKA the other shortened half of a squat?
This is what I was thinking too. That full ROM would make one more limber.
The thing I've taken from lengthened partials is you can take full ROM to within 1 of failure, then crank out a few more with a lengthened partial to potentially get a lit a bit more out of it.
I am so sorry for your recent accident, keep doing what you are doing man💪
❤🔥
Now do one for each muscle group, that will be accurate. So we see what works better as lenghten and what works better for full ramge
Honestly ive been working out for a year and then decided to give more attention to the form, the range of motion, controlling the negative AND choosing exercises focusing on a deep stretch and holding it for about 2 seconds. And my gains skyrocketed. I aint saying this is the holy grail, but i changed something in my trainingstyle and something changed in my gains... thats just what im sayin 🤷♂️
I'm surprised you felt 8 weeks was enough to gauge any difference between the two training styles in terms of muscle growth. For experienced lifters (5+ years) which they seem to have used in this study, 8 weeks isn't a long time at all to make gains.
On that note, the approximate 6% of muscle growth measured in the test subjects surprises me the most. We're looking at roughly .75 - .8% of weeky muscle growth. Keep at it for another 6 months and make 20% more muscles? Seems insane to me for an experienced, non enhanced lifter.
I took a look at the study and seems like they used ultrasound so I feel measurements should be pretty accurate. But wouldn't we all be absolutely massive if we made .75% muscle growth weekly even after 5+ years of working out?
Interesting video though. Good work
Yeah, this also surprises me. I remember watching videos were person trains one body part for month and then checks the result, and I was always wondering, why results are so visible, like wouldn’t ppl be super jacked after 1 year if same growth applied??
i guss this faliur sets did alot of work
Jeff is supposed to be Mr. Science communicator, I really feel he needs to explain this in a comment or a separate video. Did they measure the growth immediately after 8 weeks? I wonder if the 6% muscle growth would have deflated away if they had the participants do a wash out period of "maintenance" training for 4-8 weeks before measuring the muscle sizes.
You are right that jeff should have discussed that. Let me try to answer it for you. As was mentioned in the video. The people in the study were training harder than they usually did, in addition, it is likely that they were more mindful of their diet due to participating in the study because of the novelty and seriousness.
first of all these numbers dont work like this.
Second of all, its tough to find so many people that will do tough stuff for nothing for a prolonged time...
I have been lifting since I was 12. I'm 32 now.
I'm 5'6 and my max bench was 350 (weighing 158lbs, natural).
A big part of lifting, for me, has been understanding that it's just not that complicated. Do what works for you, to an extent. ROM is important and improves your physique.
I am completely content where I am at naturally. Being 5'6, the extra lbs make a difference. So, I lift to maintain. I don't go crazy anymore. I workout 30-40 mins max. There's no need to be in the gym for 2-3 hours.
Well.......thank you for being my friend 🎵
That nightmare sequence was absolute gold 😂
1:00
Ranks up there with the "anonymous" pixelated steroids expert scene
Science this and science that! Science science science!
Yes it was
Greg Doucette makes my ears bleed.
Full ROM or Partials? Why not both? Full ROM in the beginning and then take your set to failure with partials at the stretched portion of the lift.
Beauty Vid Jeff!
Too much fatigue.
yeah I was thinking on doing that in the last set once I reach failure
@@savonmies8479Lol
@@savonmies8479 dont do it every set with every exercise obviously. Should depend on what body part is your focus at that time or how rested you are etc.