You can join my Discord here: discord.gg/EtvkZwVJ8U Consider supporting me on Patreon: www.patreon.com/randomsageless Hello Everyone, not super happy with how this video turned out, probably would have been better as a Short, but I hope you enjoyed it regardless! I have some pretty big things planned for the next few months and I'm excited to get to it. As I've said in the last video, while the quality of research in Minecraft videos isn't really scrutinized, I still feel it's best to mention, it's likely that not all the information in the video is correct. If you have any proof that counters anything I said please let me know!
sodium mod will probably not become part of Minecraft due to very inconsistent gains - and some losses in some cases. However, Nvidium could 100% be a part of regular minecraft. (or some variation of the mod that would work on a lot more gpus)
Notch wasn't involved in the squid milking thing at all, it was the first mob implemented by Jeb and he made it by duplicating the cow code and forgot to remove the milking function
Yes notch has stated before that he hasnt coded ANYTHING since the full release of minecraft. Weird since he is the guy everybody thinks of when the phrase "minecraft" is brought up
@@ToxicMothBoi Well, the vast majority of what you think of when you hear "minecraft" is from release and prior. You don't think of illagers or netherite, you think of creepers and diamond. That's probably why
I remembered squids being the first mob coded by Jeb, and that being the reason squids could be milked. Jeb didn't know how to properly implement it. Not that this is important, but I just wanted to mention this.
I have heard of this, but never looked anything up about it, but nice to see you making a video about it. You might not be super happy with the video, but it did turn out pretty good imo.
1:08 it was actually Jeb that was given a task to create squid and as he was new to the games code he wanted to see the Notch's way of implementing mobs so he copied the cows code and forgot to delete the milking method. 9:58 Its not a full third party mod implementation, but back in 1.16 they hired the Aether creator to work on the nether terrain generation.
Nice video :] Really hope Minecraft’s performance can improve in the future. The lighting engine rework is a step in the right direction. Small correction but squid milking was an oversight by Jeb, not Notch, as he made the mob.
Well they have made Minecraft a tiny bit better performance wise in 1.20 when they optimized the lighting engine to the point the starlight mod considered itself obsolete for 1.20 and above on the client side.
Nice video! When I looked up why Optifine isn't in Minecraft I was told it was because Mojang didn't want all of the features (namely the custom capes). I appreciate that you took the time to explain the more nuanced reasons the plan fell through.
I probably wouldn't have made the video in hindsight, but I do definitely like adding more nuance to situations where people have a misguided or not exactly correct version of history. Assuming I'm not also wrong!
@@atsizbalikThat's not the case. Yes sodium is open source, but it uses the LGPL v3, a copyleft license. A proprietary program like Minecraft legally could not take Sodium code. Minecraft would need to be open sourced with a compatible license.
I have been a fan for a while now and I just want to say thanks for always entertaining me. I don’t even play Minecraft anymore but I love these videos. Keep up the good work ❤
Explanation of MCP source: The MCP codebase is reverse engineered source code of Minecraft, which still gives a pretty similar result to the original code, but it's still different. Mod devs don't have access to the original code so use MCP. This means if he was to implement it in the base game he would have to rewrite some bits of the mod.
they do, mojang releases their decompilation flags you can use to get what's more or less their source code, you can't use them to make money though so noone uses them
It's worse, actually: he would have to check every single line of code in Optifine and pray that he doesn't have to remap most functions (he'll have to). The nightmare about changing from MCP mappings to official mappings is that the function that spawns mobs for example, may be called spawnMob() in MCP, but doMonsterSpawn() in the official source. Doesn't matter if it does the exact same thing (they don't exactly, more on that later), the compiler will never know that they're the same function unless some black magic is involved. You have to check which function means what for every bit of the mod code. Not to mention, MCP includes code generated by compiler optimizations. It is not a 1:1 copy of the official source, so it behaves slightly differently. Does not matter for adding a cute mob, for example, but it does matter if your mod is performance and customization oriented, like Optifine. I cannot blame Spx for giving up the offer. At all.
@@HappyGick eh, renaming a function isn't that bad in a decent ide, you can just select all occurences and replace them with the correct function name. it's mostly other problems
Whenever I hear a story like this, I wonder why companies don't try to hire these developers. Working remotely in a company like this is easy, and these are people who care about your product and know it intimately because they've worked with it extensively before. There are few people more qualified to work in your game studio than people like this
Some modders were initially "hired" (mainly Paul Spooner, but notch didn't want to give out the source code for Minecraft and he just left eventually). So they have done it, just not that much Almost all performance mods act as bandaids rather than actually fixing issues, just like how optifine is Microsoft will absolutely not hire modders, they are way too corporate for that If I'm not wrong though, Jeb was hired because of his work at bukkit, I may be wrong about the person but I know for a fact one of the employees used to work on bukkit
@@liminalityy_ not entirely true, since Microsofts aquisition of mojang, they have hired modders, for example the guy who made the aether mod (Kingbdogz) works at mojang now and just 2 years ago they hired gnembom, a well-known modder
@@DeveloVooshGWeb Hypixel is owned by Riot Games, like how Mojang is owned by Microsoft. Riot Games owns League of Legends, which has more concurrent worldwide players than Minecraft.
I thought Optifine didn’t get implemented because of the Optifine capes they sell and mojang not wanting to keep that feature when adding Optifine natively
I'm pretty sure Sodium just updates old rendering code in Minecraft which is what gives the performance boost, I think that would make it not too hard for Mojang to "implement" it
I kinda dont like the fact that people say that modders are better than devs at what they do. For some it IS true, but without the actual game to mod, some of the modders that made the game better would just be non-existent.
The guys who originally made the foundations stopped working on Minecraft years ago. All of the people working on the game now are those who joined post-release 1.0 when the game was already finished. Several of the game's creators were mod developers who were hired by Mojang. The simple fact is that Mojang keeps putting out lackluster yearly updates with little *meaningful* content while modders still push out high-quality work very frequently to this day. No amount of sugarcoating will make that change. Whether it's a management issue or if Mojang is actually lazy or what I don't know, but, it is the truth that modders do way more for the game than Mojang.
@@evdestroy5304 Have you ever considered that maybe Minecraft isn't suited for certain type of player? Because Minecraft is a game made to be simple and relaxing, while mods add stuff that turns minecraft your typical game (Not that it's a bad thing ofc, but Minecraft is just different). Most mods completely ruin Minecraft and it's simplicity. basically all of them
Sadly, I think Sodium will also never be implemented into the official game, because the creator of the mod has been offered a job at Hytale Studios and now works for them. It's very sad to know this, as mods like Sodium, Iris, Phosphor and Lithium should totally be part of the base game because they don't mess up anything vanilla already.
what’s crazy is these people have figured it out in their own time meanwhile mojang has made minuscule progress on performance improvements for a decade, what is their priority?
@@333dae shit updates yoinked from whatever has been trending on curseforge for the last few months Game hasn't had an original update since 1.2, kinda crazy
@@333daeI did think they were incompetent and they quite frankly are, but the branch that's responsible for. They've made literally pretty neat rpg games, Legends, Dungeons and such. These were top tier games to the contrary of current crap craft that's managed stellar poorly. It's just a bunch of flying textures that's being added over the span of years. It's so weak I truly wonder who even is responsible for mc specifically. I doubt jeb is that much of an incel.
@@333dae Optimization mods don't fix the problem in Minecraft's performances, they throe a patch on them, fixing a Minecraft's lag would be far more complex
@@VinnyUnion Have you ever considered that maybe you're just not the type of player for Minecraft? Because Minecraft is a game made to be simple and relaxing, while Legends and Dungeons are your typical complex game (Not that it's a bad thing ofc, but Minecraft is just different)
OptiFine has been borked for years and it's only a necessary evil until the alternatives to support heavily customized resource packs are ripe. It makes sense that Mojang wanted only parts of a project, especially since there were other things they were going to do on their own or didn't want in vanilla at all. And no one's at fault of anything if a deal can't satisfy either party.
1:09 no, no he didn’t. Jeb added them, and it was the first job he designed so he used the cow’s code as a base for his experiment. He accidentally left the ability to milk in the squid code (not sure about the ai part, just the milking part).
It's a shame Minecraftforum got archived when Curse took over, there was a lot of discourse about all of it. There's a lot of nuance to the whole story, and it goes beyond just Optifine.
So if we think about it, optifine is just a collection of previously existing mods merged into one as they were abandoned.. OptiMine, OptiFog, MCPatcher, GLSL Shaders (both of which I know were open-source so it was easy to just "yoink" the source..) So the guy just took those mods, yoinked them, bundled them while still keeping closed-source and All-Rights Reserved HMMMM
I honestly always assumed the issue was the capes. Mojang isn't going to add everyone's custom capes (even if they are just banner designs, and I think that should just be a feature anyway), and Spx isn't going to make a deal that essentially scams people out of their money.
the squid thing was a jeb error since at the time jeb didnt know how entities worked in the game and just copy pasted the code while forgetting the milk thing If i remember correctly
Hi, Java programmer here that was involved in modding back in the day. Just wanted to point out a few issues: - Minecraft's performance back in 2011 wasn't nearly as bad as you're making it out to be. However, the optimization issues that did exist were due to the version of OpenGL used requiring vertex data to be assembled by the CPU and sent to the GPU every single frame. -A lot of the render functions used by old Minecraft versions has been deprecated and removed from the core OpenGL environment. While modern GPU drivers still support legacy OpenGL code, this code is emulated, which makes the performance worse today despite the better hardware. -A lot of the issues with early Minecraft's performance comes from the technology still being relatively novel. While any half-decent game dev can make a voxel engine from scratch nowadays, a lot of what Notch was doing back in 2009-2010 was viewed as godmagic by his peers. In general, the collective knowledge of indie developers was a lot less refined, so it's not just a matter of "Notch bad, Spx good."
I wanted to comment my appreciation of the insight you give into those videos! It's pretty rare regarding, really anything, especially as of some time now! Great content, awesome skits inbetween, always something to lay your eyes onto Sageless!
Glad it isn't implemented into vanilla because as time has passed, better performance mods have been released that are compatible with many mods, unlike optfine that changes the rendering in a way that becomes incompatible with a lot of mods. So not only would some players lose the ability to play minecraft if optifine was implemented, but so will many players who mod their game.
its fucking incredible Notch made minecraft in what is the equivalent of 3 guys in a shed making the brittish championship rifle on Java but its incompatible to anything other than PC, is easy to mod and works albeit the performance can be shit it works so i thought "well since theyre always hiiring good programmers why not just write a new minecraft from scratch?" and i remembered they did its called Bedrock edition Most commonly known as "BugRock edition" the literally unplayable version of minecraft thats so unplayable there is literally no Hardcore mode because how could there be?
I really do hope that mojang puts out an update at some point where they specifically look towards optimisation, either by implementing sodium (a much better optimisation mod than optifine by now) or just doing their own optimisation. I can understand why they don't though, because at the end of the day if someone just wants to play unmodded then... well they could just play bedrock at that point.
1:08 - Jeb was responsible for making squids, not Notch. He copypasted cow's code and forgot to remove milking part. Also, this is not really an AI part, but rather an interaction part
It's funny that people even talk about adding OptiFine into the game. It's, as mentioned in one part of the video, just some patches to make the game run a little better. What they really need is to hire someone/a team of people to just fix the game. It's very poorly optimized in the first place, and has tons of issues. This isn't the biggest deal ever, and that's standard practice in programming (only optimize when it becomes necessary, not as you're coding in the first place), but still Mojang has not taken the right path. There's no good intensive for them to make it run better, it wouldn't gain them much money, and Micro$oft is all about the dollar$. I'm a developer for a semi-popular mod (the Discord has ~17.2k members) that changes the development direction Minecraft took after b1.7.3. We have a sister project for alpha called NSSS who's creator has optimized the game to a large extent. He runs it on SGI computers and also it's been run on plenty of slow and old machines at impressive framerates. It's definitely possible, they just need to make it happen. Unfortunately Mojang has some very big management issues.
Optifine does not work with many mods. If a person has 200, 300 or 400 mods installed and they install Optifine, the game crashes. And when you get to the bottom of it. You find out that Optifine is not compatible with several dozen mods. And neither side wants to deal with the problem. Each side blames the other and nothing ever gets fixed. So eventually millions of people are left out in the cold not being able to use Optifine. Hence why Fabric was born.
The performance of modern minecraft version is horrible without mods, microsoft should focus on fixing their trashy perfomance rather than adding features nobody asked for
I've always dreamed of something like this: 2025. As Minecraft becomes laggyer and laggyer because of bigger updated, mojang goes to both optifine and sodium companies, and payes them each 1 million dollars and jobs at mojang for them to merge and get added to vanilla, getting sodium's (and it's whole family of performance mods) performance and optifines customization. Could it be real? Or just dreams?
Just dreams unfortunately... as long as we don't assemble together as a community and show mojang that we all want those features, and it's not just 1% of the player base who wants this, then they won't bother to add anything other than what they want. If we unite and show them what we really want only then they might implement things like that, as well as other things the community wants. But the community seems pretty divided, especially with Java and Bedrock editions being vastly different due to mojang barely caring about parity. I just wish the community was more united sometimes! We could get so far...
Just a dream. Optifine is trying to stich up a decapitation. For minecraft to implement Optifine and Sodium properly, there'd be a need for lage chunks of the source to be rewritten.
I hate to say it but if anyone here is greedy and incompetent it’s optifine. I’ve worked with their team before. They’re one of the mods that refuses to play ball with other mods. Not only that, but the level of self import they have is crazy.
Not surprising the story is more nuanced and was a compatibility issue. Also, I'm somewhat doubtful they will go for Sodium, considering much smaller mods e.g. Starlight were made redundant where they improved their own lighting engine with similar solutions. Not impossible since Sodium is more widespread but for that same reason implementing it could be hard. Not impossible but would likely end up looking quite different in the end. Hoping Mojang themselves can help to boost performance in other ways too...
I kinda agree myself, but needed to end the video on something that would make people think or comment :D Definitely could see certain devs being hired tho.
If you're concerned about implementing Optifine directly into Minecraft and worried about compatibility issues, especially on AMD, Intel, and Nvidia drivers, if Mojang were to include Optifine, it would be like a checkbox when creating a version. So, it would still be optional, but it would already be a part of the launcher itself, and we wouldn't have to download anything from the website, especially for non-techy users who want to improve their Minecraft experience.
This happened long before the current launcher, the old one was incredibly basic, this was also during the leadup to the full release of the game, so Mojang were extremely busy handling everything, they just wasn't enough time to do that, and after 1.0 Optifine continued to get massively popular and generate a lot of revenue for the mod developer, so he had no reason to be open to future offers, simply just wrong place at wrong time, maybe if Optifine was developed a year prior
Minecraft hiring some of the scicraft people was honestly the best thing they could do regarding implementing OptiFine into Minecraft. The Scicraft people know where bugs are, what causes them, and have created personalized mods that basically reroute the code around the bugs and execute them properly if the bug impacted performance or had other negative implications. Why do you think in the past few months, a lot of the most ancient (java) bugs in Minecraft have finally been patched? Because they now know exactly where they are, what causes them, and how to fix it. With that in mind, my prediction is that the ancient city was supposed to create a portal. Either possibly with The End to make transportation between the Overworld and the End a lot more convenient (even if the portals would only be usable after killing the dragon), and thus making the End as a dimension a lot more interesting for the average player. (chunkloading in the end is not really possible, farms like bee farms and wool farms would work optimally in the End, as the Nether requires a lot of additional care, etc, etc). OR the portal would lead to a new dimension, which requires optimisation of the basecode first. We did have obsidian 8 updates before we had a nether, we had end portal frames technically one update before we had the end, but the End originally was just the main island and didnt get fully hashed out untill another 6 updates later. So my personal theory would be that we will get our new dimension (or updated end dimension) once the game is truly optimized. The light engine has already been updated recently, soon we will have no more laggy redstone dust, and then I think that entity lag will be optimized aswell, by giving mobs a shared AI system rather than all unique systems(currently, a lot of lag happens at 100 mobs because they all have 100 calculations and 100+ functions that are being ran to determine their next location, giving them a shared AI system could still allow mobs to act on their own).
ngl i think we should just be thankful mojang didnt just implement the things and sue optifine to hell and back, if apple or bethesda made minecraft thats what would have happened
It surprises me so much that a billion dollar company was not skilled enough to stabilized minecraft but few modders made a addon which stabilizes the game so much
ever heard the term "too many chefs in the kitchen"? too many people working on the same thing without enough communication always leads to stuff like this.
Edit: 7:58 Looks like the video does cover the same things I wanted to mention. Noice. 5:30 I don't know if the video mentions it later, but I thought I would throw in now. Having been around at the time when this deal was happening. From what I remember, Spx was the one that turned Mojang's offer down. Mojang offer to buy it from him and to pay to have the entire mod (not parts) added to the game. The most common reason for turning down at the time was that adding Optifine to the game proper would require rewriting it to work with the original source, which Spx considered too much work for the amount Mojang was willing to pay. A later theory though was that Spx uses Optifine as their primary source of income, and selling it to Mojang would get in the way of his ability to continually monetize it, especially with regards to the optifine capes. After the deal fell through Dinnerbone went to twitter to say "Oh well" and state that they would eventually make it so Optifine is longer neccessary for playing the game. This was before they added proper HD textures support, antialiasing, and resource packs to the game.
This is wild, because Java runs smooth like butter for me. However.. Bedrock? Bedrock is acting up so badly for me. The laggy delayed response in overall. And it's on 10 render distance max or else my pc will cry. Meanwhile on Java I can easily get 20-30 render distance and no problemo. Not a single crash.
I don't understand how anyone can say that minecraft is not optimized, it is extremely complex. I am personally stunned, that they were able to make it, so it runs even on some older laptops.
@@KrakonosovoBabkait even lags on modern machines, let alone old ones. One of the biggest reasons being the lack of multithreading. Say, you have a processor with 128 cores, each of them being roughly equal to pentium 4 in terms of performance. So you effectively have a processor that is 128x faster than pentium 4 but only if multithreading is being used. Instead, minecraft will only use one core, so in this hypothetical scenario your minecraft would run as badly as if you used an actual pentium 4. So performancd per core is what matters the most for such unoptimized games as meinkraft
@@bloodkelp I have like middle class pc and it doesn't lag on it. My brother has really old pc, which runs it so it is playable, but really low fps. Multithreading is one way to optimize, but not objectivley one to chose for each project, if they chose to not suport it, they probably had a reason. Specifically in java multithreading is exceptionally easy. You have to understand that minecraft rendering is like 100 times more oomplex then "classical" game, because it doesn't just use one mesh for terrain, but thousands of mashes which have each different textures. If it weren't optimized how you say, it wouldn't be run, even on that 128 core cpu, which is pretty high level I would say.
Optifine isn't even that good for performance by this point. Mojang would need to implement Vulkan mod (as an option, because completely relying on it would break compatibility with older devices (which devs doesn't seem to be scared about, since they've replaced required OpenGL from 2 to 4 in later versions)) or to merge Sodium with the game (but that would also require to add some parts of Fabric too (as well as with Vulkan mod))
OMG at 1:14 in the vid on the far right you can see my old skin O: I didn't make this skin btw I found it on a site Btw the same player skin is also at 5:14
You can join my Discord here: discord.gg/EtvkZwVJ8U
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Hello Everyone, not super happy with how this video turned out, probably would have been better as a Short, but I hope you enjoyed it regardless! I have some pretty big things planned for the next few months and I'm excited to get to it.
As I've said in the last video, while the quality of research in Minecraft videos isn't really scrutinized, I still feel it's best to mention, it's likely that not all the information in the video is correct. If you have any proof that counters anything I said please let me know!
Baller
it was still good, and you got more watch retention right?
sodium mod will probably not become part of Minecraft due to very inconsistent gains - and some losses in some cases. However, Nvidium could 100% be a part of regular minecraft. (or some variation of the mod that would work on a lot more gpus)
@RandomSageless I just want you to know the video description says "the time Mojang almost bought Mojang"
bro is an furry
Notch wasn't involved in the squid milking thing at all, it was the first mob implemented by Jeb and he made it by duplicating the cow code and forgot to remove the milking function
Yeah; this is a trash video
Yes notch has stated before that he hasnt coded ANYTHING since the full release of minecraft. Weird since he is the guy everybody thinks of when the phrase "minecraft" is brought up
@@ToxicMothBoi Well, the vast majority of what you think of when you hear "minecraft" is from release and prior. You don't think of illagers or netherite, you think of creepers and diamond.
That's probably why
@@timewarpdrive77i think of dirt
I was gonna comment that xD
I remembered squids being the first mob coded by Jeb, and that being the reason squids could be milked.
Jeb didn't know how to properly implement it. Not that this is important, but I just wanted to mention this.
he copied the code of the cow and forgot to remove the part that makes the mob "milkable"
I wanna know how it feels like to be milked
was an accident lol
I have heard of this, but never looked anything up about it, but nice to see you making a video about it. You might not be super happy with the video, but it did turn out pretty good imo.
I am glad you enjoyed it.
1:08 it was actually Jeb that was given a task to create squid and as he was new to the games code he wanted to see the Notch's way of implementing mobs so he copied the cows code and forgot to delete the milking method.
9:58 Its not a full third party mod implementation, but back in 1.16 they hired the Aether creator to work on the nether terrain generation.
Milking squid
i think he worked on a lot of things we wanted
Nice video :] Really hope Minecraft’s performance can improve in the future. The lighting engine rework is a step in the right direction.
Small correction but squid milking was an oversight by Jeb, not Notch, as he made the mob.
Ah thanks for mentioning that it was Jens.
@@RandomSageless Jens???
@@RandomPerson12312 Jens is his real name, Jeb is his Minecraft name
Well they have made Minecraft a tiny bit better performance wise in 1.20 when they optimized the lighting engine to the point the starlight mod considered itself obsolete for 1.20 and above on the client side.
OF and the other mods keep the Java Minecraft alive I guess. If it depends only on Mojang/Microsoft, then we have only the Bedrock version now.
Nice video! When I looked up why Optifine isn't in Minecraft I was told it was because Mojang didn't want all of the features (namely the custom capes). I appreciate that you took the time to explain the more nuanced reasons the plan fell through.
I probably wouldn't have made the video in hindsight, but I do definitely like adding more nuance to situations where people have a misguided or not exactly correct version of history. Assuming I'm not also wrong!
@@RandomSagelessi think you made a mistake in the description bro
your description says mojang almost bought mojang@@RandomSageless
@@composterslmao 😭
It is pretty sad how they added squid milking, but didn't change it to get ink instead. It would be a nice feature
Jeb added the squid by literally copy-pasting the code for the cow, he just forgot to remove the tag that makes them milkable
The first time I tried Java on my PC, it led me to believe that my (first) PC was the problem.
I mean, it was, but still.
They should implement sodium into the basegame, make a Fabulously optimized setting, and shader settings.....that would be great
and since its free and open-source they will have no issue unlike optifine
@@atsizbalikThat's not the case. Yes sodium is open source, but it uses the LGPL v3, a copyleft license. A proprietary program like Minecraft legally could not take Sodium code. Minecraft would need to be open sourced with a compatible license.
@@that_leaflet oh okay
Fun fact: at 1:07 it was actually jeb who made the squid with the cow ai and forgot to remove the milking ability
I have been a fan for a while now and I just want to say thanks for always entertaining me. I don’t even play Minecraft anymore but I love these videos. Keep up the good work ❤
POV: Youve been playing minecraft since release without optimisation mods and with lag up until now finding abt optifine and sodium.
Explanation of MCP source: The MCP codebase is reverse engineered source code of Minecraft, which still gives a pretty similar result to the original code, but it's still different. Mod devs don't have access to the original code so use MCP. This means if he was to implement it in the base game he would have to rewrite some bits of the mod.
they do, mojang releases their decompilation flags you can use to get what's more or less their source code, you can't use them to make money though so noone uses them
Not very hard reverse engineer, though. Java is easily decompilable.
It's worse, actually: he would have to check every single line of code in Optifine and pray that he doesn't have to remap most functions (he'll have to). The nightmare about changing from MCP mappings to official mappings is that the function that spawns mobs for example, may be called spawnMob() in MCP, but doMonsterSpawn() in the official source. Doesn't matter if it does the exact same thing (they don't exactly, more on that later), the compiler will never know that they're the same function unless some black magic is involved. You have to check which function means what for every bit of the mod code.
Not to mention, MCP includes code generated by compiler optimizations. It is not a 1:1 copy of the official source, so it behaves slightly differently. Does not matter for adding a cute mob, for example, but it does matter if your mod is performance and customization oriented, like Optifine.
I cannot blame Spx for giving up the offer. At all.
@@WiihawkPLmojang releasing their own decompilation symbols is a relatively recent thing.
@@HappyGick eh, renaming a function isn't that bad in a decent ide, you can just select all occurences and replace them with the correct function name. it's mostly other problems
Whenever I hear a story like this, I wonder why companies don't try to hire these developers. Working remotely in a company like this is easy, and these are people who care about your product and know it intimately because they've worked with it extensively before. There are few people more qualified to work in your game studio than people like this
Some modders were initially "hired" (mainly Paul Spooner, but notch didn't want to give out the source code for Minecraft and he just left eventually). So they have done it, just not that much
Almost all performance mods act as bandaids rather than actually fixing issues, just like how optifine is
Microsoft will absolutely not hire modders, they are way too corporate for that
If I'm not wrong though, Jeb was hired because of his work at bukkit, I may be wrong about the person but I know for a fact one of the employees used to work on bukkit
@@liminalityy_ not entirely true, since Microsofts aquisition of mojang, they have hired modders, for example the guy who made the aether mod (Kingbdogz) works at mojang now and just 2 years ago they hired gnembom, a well-known modder
lol hytale hired the person that created sodium for minecraft
@@DeveloVooshGWeb yeah i know, just dropping in a fun little fact, smaller companies tend to recognise talent much more
@@DeveloVooshGWeb Hypixel is owned by Riot Games, like how Mojang is owned by Microsoft. Riot Games owns League of Legends, which has more concurrent worldwide players than Minecraft.
Look ma, I'm on TV!
Fr tho, super interesting and great vid, fun to be a part of :D
Thanks for the help :D
I thought Optifine didn’t get implemented because of the Optifine capes they sell and mojang not wanting to keep that feature when adding Optifine natively
yeah, I am surprised that this point did not get included in the video
Giving everyone a customizable cape would make the Minecon capes worthless
@@solidpandacka5544 maybe mojang got more flexible about capes after giving everyone 2 exclusive capes already
@@solidpandacka5544Did you guys watch the video? It is explicitly stated that this is not the case.
One of the best Minecraft Storyteller TH-camr change my mind
fr akhi
he literally has 80k subscribers and soon will be verified
That means so much!
wait I thought it said he’s underrated but now it’s changed but it doesn’t say edited wtf am I going insane
I can't
Lmao 8:11 “I made these signs birch to make Camman18 fans angry”
Nobody asked just like your dad for you ,fatherless kid haha
I'm pretty sure Sodium just updates old rendering code in Minecraft which is what gives the performance boost, I think that would make it not too hard for Mojang to "implement" it
I kinda dont like the fact that people say that modders are better than devs at what they do. For some it IS true, but without the actual game to mod, some of the modders that made the game better would just be non-existent.
they probably mean like at programming skills or smth
The guys who originally made the foundations stopped working on Minecraft years ago. All of the people working on the game now are those who joined post-release 1.0 when the game was already finished. Several of the game's creators were mod developers who were hired by Mojang.
The simple fact is that Mojang keeps putting out lackluster yearly updates with little *meaningful* content while modders still push out high-quality work very frequently to this day. No amount of sugarcoating will make that change. Whether it's a management issue or if Mojang is actually lazy or what I don't know, but, it is the truth that modders do way more for the game than Mojang.
@@evdestroy5304its on purpose baby
@@evdestroy5304 Have you ever considered that maybe Minecraft isn't suited for certain type of player? Because Minecraft is a game made to be simple and relaxing, while mods add stuff that turns minecraft your typical game (Not that it's a bad thing ofc, but Minecraft is just different). Most mods completely ruin Minecraft and it's simplicity. basically all of them
@evdestroy5304 Agreed
Sadly, I think Sodium will also never be implemented into the official game, because the creator of the mod has been offered a job at Hytale Studios and now works for them. It's very sad to know this, as mods like Sodium, Iris, Phosphor and Lithium should totally be part of the base game because they don't mess up anything vanilla already.
what’s crazy is these people have figured it out in their own time meanwhile mojang has made minuscule progress on performance improvements for a decade, what is their priority?
@@333dae shit updates yoinked from whatever has been trending on curseforge for the last few months
Game hasn't had an original update since 1.2, kinda crazy
@@333daeI did think they were incompetent and they quite frankly are, but the branch that's responsible for. They've made literally pretty neat rpg games, Legends, Dungeons and such. These were top tier games to the contrary of current crap craft that's managed stellar poorly. It's just a bunch of flying textures that's being added over the span of years. It's so weak I truly wonder who even is responsible for mc specifically. I doubt jeb is that much of an incel.
@@333dae Optimization mods don't fix the problem in Minecraft's performances, they throe a patch on them, fixing a Minecraft's lag would be far more complex
@@VinnyUnion Have you ever considered that maybe you're just not the type of player for Minecraft? Because Minecraft is a game made to be simple and relaxing, while Legends and Dungeons are your typical complex game (Not that it's a bad thing ofc, but Minecraft is just different)
OptiFine has been borked for years and it's only a necessary evil until the alternatives to support heavily customized resource packs are ripe.
It makes sense that Mojang wanted only parts of a project, especially since there were other things they were going to do on their own or didn't want in vanilla at all.
And no one's at fault of anything if a deal can't satisfy either party.
Evil?!?!
For newer versions, there's Sodium, Iris, and CTM iirc.
1:09 no, no he didn’t. Jeb added them, and it was the first job he designed so he used the cow’s code as a base for his experiment. He accidentally left the ability to milk in the squid code (not sure about the ai part, just the milking part).
It's a shame Minecraftforum got archived when Curse took over, there was a lot of discourse about all of it. There's a lot of nuance to the whole story, and it goes beyond just Optifine.
So if we think about it, optifine is just a collection of previously existing mods merged into one as they were abandoned.. OptiMine, OptiFog, MCPatcher, GLSL Shaders (both of which I know were open-source so it was easy to just "yoink" the source..)
So the guy just took those mods, yoinked them, bundled them while still keeping closed-source and All-Rights Reserved HMMMM
I forgot to include it but there was also another more minor mod Spx added into OptiFine, but I think it was his.
unrelated but I love how that one room is still closed for "maintenance" from last video
you put a lot of work on these videos, keep up bro, your are insane
I honestly always assumed the issue was the capes. Mojang isn't going to add everyone's custom capes (even if they are just banner designs, and I think that should just be a feature anyway), and Spx isn't going to make a deal that essentially scams people out of their money.
I really like how these videos are made, like, using Minecraft to tell the story and what is being said
I'm so glad you do, I have a lot more fun making these kinda videos.
the squid thing was a jeb error since at the time jeb didnt know how entities worked in the game and just copy pasted the code while forgetting the milk thing
If i remember correctly
“I made these signs birch to make Camman18 fans angry”. I love TH-camrs who put funny little Easter eggs in the background. Great video! 8:11
i was wondering if anyone saw that
The currant version is pretty stable. Older versions were made to run on anything, including machines that didn't have dedicated graphics cards.
8:08 he really had to do it to the signs lmao!
Great Video! Stuff about modders and Mojang interacting is always interesting.
The answer was kind of exactly what I expected. I hope Mojang eventually does something about Java's optimization
10:00 other thing that makes optifine more valuable are custom capes.
10:42 and for egzample allowing you to use some resource packs
Hi, Java programmer here that was involved in modding back in the day. Just wanted to point out a few issues:
- Minecraft's performance back in 2011 wasn't nearly as bad as you're making it out to be. However, the optimization issues that did exist were due to the version of OpenGL used requiring vertex data to be assembled by the CPU and sent to the GPU every single frame.
-A lot of the render functions used by old Minecraft versions has been deprecated and removed from the core OpenGL environment. While modern GPU drivers still support legacy OpenGL code, this code is emulated, which makes the performance worse today despite the better hardware.
-A lot of the issues with early Minecraft's performance comes from the technology still being relatively novel. While any half-decent game dev can make a voxel engine from scratch nowadays, a lot of what Notch was doing back in 2009-2010 was viewed as godmagic by his peers. In general, the collective knowledge of indie developers was a lot less refined, so it's not just a matter of "Notch bad, Spx good."
Microsoft is only focusing on bedrock edition pushing java players to bedrock edition
I wanted to comment my appreciation of the insight you give into those videos! It's pretty rare regarding, really anything, especially as of some time now!
Great content, awesome skits inbetween, always something to lay your eyes onto Sageless!
2:46 new Herobrine theroy video Coming in October?! (Stop Video and click on the time)
Glad it isn't implemented into vanilla because as time has passed, better performance mods have been released that are compatible with many mods, unlike optfine that changes the rendering in a way that becomes incompatible with a lot of mods. So not only would some players lose the ability to play minecraft if optifine was implemented, but so will many players who mod their game.
its fucking incredible
Notch made minecraft in what is the equivalent of 3 guys in a shed making the brittish championship rifle
on Java
but its incompatible to anything other than PC, is easy to mod and works
albeit the performance can be shit it works
so i thought "well since theyre always hiiring good programmers why not just write a new minecraft from scratch?"
and i remembered they did
its called Bedrock edition
Most commonly known as "BugRock edition"
the literally unplayable version of minecraft
thats so unplayable there is literally no Hardcore mode because how could there be?
8:15 "I made these signs birch to make CaNman18 fans angry" 💀
Surprised the battle with leaf despawning causing lag was never brought up considering "FPS boost" was a major point.
I really do hope that mojang puts out an update at some point where they specifically look towards optimisation, either by implementing sodium (a much better optimisation mod than optifine by now) or just doing their own optimisation. I can understand why they don't though, because at the end of the day if someone just wants to play unmodded then... well they could just play bedrock at that point.
the description: "...about the time Mojang almost bought Mojang"
1:08 - Jeb was responsible for making squids, not Notch. He copypasted cow's code and forgot to remove milking part. Also, this is not really an AI part, but rather an interaction part
It's funny that people even talk about adding OptiFine into the game. It's, as mentioned in one part of the video, just some patches to make the game run a little better. What they really need is to hire someone/a team of people to just fix the game. It's very poorly optimized in the first place, and has tons of issues. This isn't the biggest deal ever, and that's standard practice in programming (only optimize when it becomes necessary, not as you're coding in the first place), but still Mojang has not taken the right path. There's no good intensive for them to make it run better, it wouldn't gain them much money, and Micro$oft is all about the dollar$.
I'm a developer for a semi-popular mod (the Discord has ~17.2k members) that changes the development direction Minecraft took after b1.7.3. We have a sister project for alpha called NSSS who's creator has optimized the game to a large extent. He runs it on SGI computers and also it's been run on plenty of slow and old machines at impressive framerates. It's definitely possible, they just need to make it happen. Unfortunately Mojang has some very big management issues.
To be honest, Java 1.20 is well optimized compared to previous versions
They haven't fixed the underlying issues that have been there for years. You can only polish a turd so much
Optifine does not work with many mods. If a person has 200, 300 or 400 mods installed and they install Optifine, the game crashes.
And when you get to the bottom of it. You find out that Optifine is not compatible with several dozen mods. And neither side wants to deal with the problem.
Each side blames the other and nothing ever gets fixed. So eventually millions of people are left out in the cold not being able to use Optifine. Hence why Fabric was born.
Another perfect video, you really put effort to this
Thanks for the video, that was a lovely story
the description says 'the time Mojang almost bought Mojang,' lmao
Sometimes I have to remind myself optifine is a mod, I never don't use it despite my pc being good enough to not require it
The performance of modern minecraft version is horrible without mods, microsoft should focus on fixing their trashy perfomance rather than adding features nobody asked for
The description says "we'll be learning about the time Mojang almost bought Mojang." Might want to fix that.
I've always dreamed of something like this: 2025. As Minecraft becomes laggyer and laggyer because of bigger updated, mojang goes to both optifine and sodium companies, and payes them each 1 million dollars and jobs at mojang for them to merge and get added to vanilla, getting sodium's (and it's whole family of performance mods) performance and optifines customization. Could it be real? Or just dreams?
Just dreams unfortunately... as long as we don't assemble together as a community and show mojang that we all want those features, and it's not just 1% of the player base who wants this, then they won't bother to add anything other than what they want.
If we unite and show them what we really want only then they might implement things like that, as well as other things the community wants.
But the community seems pretty divided, especially with Java and Bedrock editions being vastly different due to mojang barely caring about parity.
I just wish the community was more united sometimes! We could get so far...
That’s going to always be a dream because neither Sodium or Optifine are developed by “companies”
Just a dream. Optifine is trying to stich up a decapitation.
For minecraft to implement Optifine and Sodium properly, there'd be a need for lage chunks of the source to be rewritten.
@@an2thea514 worth 1 million dollars for each
@@an2thea514 like to have it's own update, alongside with the main update
I hate to say it but if anyone here is greedy and incompetent it’s optifine. I’ve worked with their team before. They’re one of the mods that refuses to play ball with other mods. Not only that, but the level of self import they have is crazy.
In vanilla I play in like 100 - 200 fps but white sodium I play in 700 - 1000 fps. Mods is great😎
In the end, does it really matter? People will keep using mods to tailor Minecraft to their own preferences anyway
"It's just a failed deal" *shows the article about microsoft buying mojang* XD
Imo companies like amd and nvidia should implement fsr and dlss to the game since most of the games has this feature
Great video! Just want to let you know the description says "about the time Mojang almost bought Mojang," so you can fix it :)
1:04
Lines 1 and 2 are not equal.
4 - 9/2 = -0.5
sqrt( (4 - 9/2)^2 ) = 0.5
Man I genuinely love your vids
Not surprising the story is more nuanced and was a compatibility issue.
Also, I'm somewhat doubtful they will go for Sodium, considering much smaller mods e.g. Starlight were made redundant where they improved their own lighting engine with similar solutions. Not impossible since Sodium is more widespread but for that same reason implementing it could be hard. Not impossible but would likely end up looking quite different in the end. Hoping Mojang themselves can help to boost performance in other ways too...
I kinda agree myself, but needed to end the video on something that would make people think or comment :D
Definitely could see certain devs being hired tho.
If you're concerned about implementing Optifine directly into Minecraft and worried about compatibility issues, especially on AMD, Intel, and Nvidia drivers, if Mojang were to include Optifine, it would be like a checkbox when creating a version. So, it would still be optional, but it would already be a part of the launcher itself, and we wouldn't have to download anything from the website, especially for non-techy users who want to improve their Minecraft experience.
This happened long before the current launcher, the old one was incredibly basic, this was also during the leadup to the full release of the game, so Mojang were extremely busy handling everything, they just wasn't enough time to do that, and after 1.0 Optifine continued to get massively popular and generate a lot of revenue for the mod developer, so he had no reason to be open to future offers, simply just wrong place at wrong time, maybe if Optifine was developed a year prior
imagine if combined it makes OptiMog instead 🗿
Minecraft hiring some of the scicraft people was honestly the best thing they could do regarding implementing OptiFine into Minecraft.
The Scicraft people know where bugs are, what causes them, and have created personalized mods that basically reroute the code around the bugs and execute them properly if the bug impacted performance or had other negative implications.
Why do you think in the past few months, a lot of the most ancient (java) bugs in Minecraft have finally been patched? Because they now know exactly where they are, what causes them, and how to fix it.
With that in mind, my prediction is that the ancient city was supposed to create a portal. Either possibly with The End to make transportation between the Overworld and the End a lot more convenient (even if the portals would only be usable after killing the dragon), and thus making the End as a dimension a lot more interesting for the average player. (chunkloading in the end is not really possible, farms like bee farms and wool farms would work optimally in the End, as the Nether requires a lot of additional care, etc, etc). OR the portal would lead to a new dimension, which requires optimisation of the basecode first.
We did have obsidian 8 updates before we had a nether, we had end portal frames technically one update before we had the end, but the End originally was just the main island and didnt get fully hashed out untill another 6 updates later.
So my personal theory would be that we will get our new dimension (or updated end dimension) once the game is truly optimized. The light engine has already been updated recently, soon we will have no more laggy redstone dust, and then I think that entity lag will be optimized aswell, by giving mobs a shared AI system rather than all unique systems(currently, a lot of lag happens at 100 mobs because they all have 100 calculations and 100+ functions that are being ran to determine their next location, giving them a shared AI system could still allow mobs to act on their own).
ngl i think we should just be thankful mojang didnt just implement the things and sue optifine to hell and back, if apple or bethesda made minecraft thats what would have happened
It surprises me so much that a billion dollar company was not skilled enough to stabilized minecraft but few modders made a addon which stabilizes the game so much
ever heard the term "too many chefs in the kitchen"? too many people working on the same thing without enough communication always leads to stuff like this.
@@GinaRanChaosdiver maybe your right
Have you even listened to the video? Optifine, sodium, etc. don't fix the errors in Minecraft, they just patch em up as best as they can
8:14 "I made these signs birch to make Camman18 fans angry" 💀💀
and i thought it was just my computer being shit
New, next step, Mojang implementing Sodium/Iris as part of their code? 👀
Instead of buying it, just code it in and make actually good updates
btw the description says "the time mojang almost bought mojang"
Edit: 7:58 Looks like the video does cover the same things I wanted to mention. Noice.
5:30 I don't know if the video mentions it later, but I thought I would throw in now. Having been around at the time when this deal was happening. From what I remember, Spx was the one that turned Mojang's offer down. Mojang offer to buy it from him and to pay to have the entire mod (not parts) added to the game.
The most common reason for turning down at the time was that adding Optifine to the game proper would require rewriting it to work with the original source, which Spx considered too much work for the amount Mojang was willing to pay. A later theory though was that Spx uses Optifine as their primary source of income, and selling it to Mojang would get in the way of his ability to continually monetize it, especially with regards to the optifine capes.
After the deal fell through Dinnerbone went to twitter to say "Oh well" and state that they would eventually make it so Optifine is longer neccessary for playing the game. This was before they added proper HD textures support, antialiasing, and resource packs to the game.
Nice video like the style and well researched
Minecraft Bedrock Player after The video: 🗿
description: "about the time Mojang almost bought Mojang"
Solid video. I really enjoy the visuals too
"I made these signs birch to make Camman18 fans angry" lol
Oh the OF on the cape stands for Optifine........ thought it meant sth else...hm..
Best channel dude and soo underrated i hope you get the 1m subs because thats what you really deserve have a nice day
I still have absolutely no idea on how to add optifine on my laptop.
Minecraft tried to buy optifine? Huh. I got it for free.
mojang is a office building full of idiots
at some point Sodium will completely overrun Optifine, lol
This video was really interesting and good ❤
This is wild, because Java runs smooth like butter for me. However.. Bedrock? Bedrock is acting up so badly for me. The laggy delayed response in overall. And it's on 10 render distance max or else my pc will cry. Meanwhile on Java I can easily get 20-30 render distance and no problemo. Not a single crash.
8:09 the sign on the right 💀
You, my man, are a chad
Mojang should hire xps as a part of the deal he deserves it
1:08 It was jeb who did it. Do some research.
tbh the fabric alternatives are way superior
I don't understand how anyone can say that minecraft is not optimized, it is extremely complex. I am personally stunned, that they were able to make it, so it runs even on some older laptops.
Minecraft being unoptimized is an objective truth
@@dudedude6664 you have something to say?
@@KrakonosovoBabkait even lags on modern machines, let alone old ones. One of the biggest reasons being the lack of multithreading. Say, you have a processor with 128 cores, each of them being roughly equal to pentium 4 in terms of performance. So you effectively have a processor that is 128x faster than pentium 4 but only if multithreading is being used. Instead, minecraft will only use one core, so in this hypothetical scenario your minecraft would run as badly as if you used an actual pentium 4. So performancd per core is what matters the most for such unoptimized games as meinkraft
@@bloodkelp I have like middle class pc and it doesn't lag on it. My brother has really old pc, which runs it so it is playable, but really low fps. Multithreading is one way to optimize, but not objectivley one to chose for each project, if they chose to not suport it, they probably had a reason. Specifically in java multithreading is exceptionally easy. You have to understand that minecraft rendering is like 100 times more oomplex then "classical" game, because it doesn't just use one mesh for terrain, but thousands of mashes which have each different textures. If it weren't optimized how you say, it wouldn't be run, even on that 128 core cpu, which is pretty high level I would say.
Optifine isn't even that good for performance by this point. Mojang would need to implement Vulkan mod (as an option, because completely relying on it would break compatibility with older devices (which devs doesn't seem to be scared about, since they've replaced required OpenGL from 2 to 4 in later versions)) or to merge Sodium with the game (but that would also require to add some parts of Fabric too (as well as with Vulkan mod))
the description says "Mojang almost bought Mojang" by the way
Fact: Optifine, Curseforge, and mcpedl was owned by Overwolf which donated to Israel so show your suport to PALESTINE 🇵🇸
people really want mojang to be evil, its so weird
OMG at 1:14 in the vid on the far right you can see my old skin O: I didn't make this skin btw I found it on a site
Btw the same player skin is also at 5:14