I respectfully disagree with Tom’s approach. I’d imagine most people watching this list would want to know “what is a good game to play with two people?”. Not “what is a good game to play with two people that wouldn’t work with other player counts?” if it’s amazing with two I’ll play it with two; I’m not going to avoid playing it because it could also play more. “Hey can us two play that game?” “Oh that game is amazing two player, but it also plays three or four really well. So, no. Get out my house” Nonetheless, great video. Thank you for making it.
It would be nice if you could have more images of the game as you guys are discussing it, use the tv in the background for that, just my suggestion, big fan, thanks!
Thank you Zee! Five Tribes is sooooo good as a 2 player game. It is a great multi player game too, but having the two pawns in the two player version makes it even more strategic.
Star Wars Rebellion in 2 hours? Is this a joke?! I think I've once played it in about 3.5 hours, but most games take 4-5 hours. Yes, we are probably a bit slower than we should be, but it's so tense and you don't want to make one mistake because it can be devastating, so I find it's a real battle of wits to outthink your opponent. And that just adds time. It'd be a dream to get it done in 2 hours, it'd hit the table way more often!
I collect Card driven games that play with two players. 10. Halls of Montazuma 9. Crusade and Revolution 8 . Command and Colors are variants 7. Making of the President 6. 1866 The Struggle for Germany 5. Twilight Struggle 4. Saints in Armor 3. For the People 2. Wilderness War 1. Washington's War
11 months later, Sam tried putting a remake of a Warhammer game on his “best of 2018” list and Tom took issue with it. Now, just take a look at Tom’s #10 on this list. :D
Good list. I totally agree with Tom about Battlelore Second Edition. It is such a fantastic, underrated game and it is a shame Fantasy Flight has abandoned it in favor of Runewars Miniatures Game. With Battlelore they had the potential to have the "fantasy memoir 44" and a game for the ages. Instead they chose to go the money line with Runewars Miniatures Game. Pretty ironic RMG is offered everywhere in the bargain/sales now...
RedZorn Man so true. And it hurts that one of the first expansions to rune wars was an elf army, which is something I clamored for in Battlelore 2.0 but we never got.
I collect mostly deck building games or card games and usually play two players. Here's my top 10 Strategic 2 player game for card game lovers: 10. Nightmare before Christmas TCG (Yes, the old dead TCG) 9. Core World with first expansion ( Deckbuilding game with tough mathematics and card counting) 8. Brass (I know it's a board game but I LOVE the card play (for area control) in this game) 7. Blue Moon (that small foot print...) 6. Codex (Even if I played really bad I still enjoy it) 5. Blood Bowl Team Manager (I think its best for two player) 4. A few acres of snow ( Or Mythotopia if the balance issue really bothers you) 3. 13 days ( Fast, small with lot of fun mind games) 2. Android Netrunner ( The guessing part is very good even without proper card pool) 1. Arkham Horror LCG ( Best gaming experience in 2017 for sure)
Five tribes is great 2 player. I always remove 1 or 2 of the Djins which are clearly for multiplayer though. Otherwise the board can get clogged up with 3 whose powers really don’t lend themselves to 2 player games. The thieves mini-expansion helps with this a bit but I find it still can happen.
Chris Mennell I actually think the game does not play well either at a low player count. There may be less AP and more chances to do what you plan. I admit the game is less chaotic; one thing I dislike of the game is that your strategy for the round shifts so rapidly when you don't go first which leads you to adapt, and it gets bad when you go last as it can happen that your 2 other contingency actions have been taken. Thus, the need for constant planning and AP. However, at 2 players, I feel that the game play is much more similar. It becomes a constant back n forth of fighting for turn order so that you can do two actions in a row. That makes the game drop in regards to the strategy behind it. I wish they would have had a special set of rules for two players. But, overall this is not my favorite game.
I find the thief mini-expansion rather wierd in the 2 player game. It's not that beneficial compared to in a 3/4/5 player game with the damage a thief can do. Specially I take Morgana out for a 2 player game.
Agreed. The bidding for turn order becomes an even more important part of the game at two player. I love this game at all player counts but two player is really good.
I like Kingdomino (watched a playthrough of Queendomino and a lot of the extra rules just seemed like random nonsense) and Aeon's End. We have Hero Realms and Ruin of Thandar (actually got Hero Realms for this expansion) but didn't realise we also need character packs so just waiting for them to arrive before we play. But one of my favourite 2-player strategy games is Drako, though it's quite old and out of print. I think the original idea was that they would add lots of factions but they never went through with that so it's just dwarves vs a dragon
I recommend giving Queendomino a try. What it adds to Kingdomino is nicely integrated into the game and once you get playing, makes sense. One example, if you have a territory without crowns, you now have a means to generate points from it. It does add more decisions and does slow the game down, especially if you play 7x7, so I do reserve Kingdomino for simpler, quicker experiences. Enjoy!
Ok, though Kingdomino fits the lighter part of my collection nicely anyway. I have quite a few (mostly more thematic) heavier games for the longer sessions. But I'll keep it in mind if we need a Kingdomino++ :) Thanks
For me, recently, I've found that I'm really liking a lot of my games at 2 player counts - mostly because they play quicker. My Top 10 Strategic 2 Player Games: 10. The Castles of Burgundy (I like it with all player counts, but it's best with 2) 9. Hero Realms 8. Dominion (Best with 2, so fast and smooth that way. I still like it at all player counts though.) 7. 7 Wonders Duel (w/ expansion) 6. World's Fair 1893 (Best with 2, but like it with more.) 5. Caverna: The Cave Farmers (I didn't expect that I'd prefer this one so much with 2...which makes me wonder why I paid for the components for 7...ugh!) 4. Grand Austria Hotel (I'll play with 3, never with 4, but it's BEST at 2.) 3. Roll Player (Again, works well at all player counts, but it's so much quicker with 2 and I enjoy it best with 2.) 2. Puerto Rico (I also enjoy this at all player counts, but the 2 player variant is surprisingly better for me) 1. Great Western Trail (I do enjoy it at all player counts, but it's BEST at 2)
I agree with Sam - there's a good amount of strategy involved in Hero Realms, particularly when you introduce both the character packs and the character upgrades that come with the "Ruin of Thandar" campaign.
It's a list I'd love to see, but sadly I don't think there are many co-ops that play substantially differently, but also really well, with just 2 players. I'd be very happy to be proved wrong though. The Ravens of Thri Sahashri is my favourite 2 player only co-op atm.
David Morrison They will play differently if they have a general pool of time for choosing actions together (Robinson Cruise) vs those that have sequential turns (Pandemic). Adding more players makes the latter worse but not the former.
Tom, just want to point out that 4 player chess is actually REALLY fun haha! Not 2v2 the way you described it, but if you get a 4 player chess board and play free for all it's actually a really interesting variant.
I think the part about Rebellion that doesn't appeal to wargamers (like myself) is not the depth and complexity of the rules, but the fact it's really game-y and doesn't feel like a simulation. There's rules in there that just feel bizarre from a wargamer standpoint. I do still like the game, but it really doesn't scratch the itch I'd hoped it would.
Miss here Imperial assault, especially skirmish and also higly tactical pax renaissance, which is my number one due inovative mechanisms, historical context and a tons of choices of what you can do.
For me and my friends, Mythic Battles Pantheon is the nr 1. 2nd is Battlelore, 3th is Warhammer Undergrounds Shadespire, 4th Scythe and 5th Bloodrage :-)
Excellent video with some great games in there. I think the Academy Games are especially good for really, really light war games. The one teensy correction is that High Heavens has Greek and Norse Gods with an Egyptian expansion available.
Sam, if you like WH: Shadespire, you really should give Corvus Belli's *Aristeia!* a play through. It's more of a MOBA in how you build your 'team' of 4 and CB is adding more heroes that you can integrate into your game play. Light deck-building, great dice system, and very intuitive movement and general mechanics. Plus, each hero operates very differently and adds really unique abilities and combo possibilities to the rest of your team.
Great list guys, I really need to get Thunder & Lightning already. Top strategic 2 player games for me got to be: Claustrophobia Lord of the Rings: The Card Game Seasons Aeon's End 7 Wonders Duel Five Tribes Covert Santorini-Casual in learning the game, but it can be quite strategic and feels like a modern Chess game Tom I usually agree with you on most things, but you couldn't be more wrong about Covert just being an "okay" game. Definitely an under-rated game, but I respect your opinion always :)
Top Ten 5 player games it is a hard number to find games from that are not all party like games. I wish Battlelore was still supported instead of the miniatures game too.
I enjoy this video. I enjoy Star Wars Rebellion. You can play it in 2 hours if you only count time your finger is touching a cardboard chit, plastic figure, or rolling dice. And you don't count the time to set up and break down.
2 player Viticulture is great, but I miss being able to use the bonus actions that are used with a higher player count. Here is a great variant that gives the ability to use those bonus actions in the 2 player game. With approval for further playtesting from Jamey Stegmaier www.boardgamegeek.com/thread/1579766/2-player-variant-using-bonus-actions
I play mainly with my wife (Thus 2 player) and we recently discovered Via Nebula and it truly is great game that you do not hear about very often. Great pic Zee.
Thoughts on Trajan, Tzolk'in: The Mayan Calendar, and Azul as 2 player games? I've played these as both a 2 and 4 player game and find that the 2 player version of these games is more strategic then 3 or 4 players.
For anyone in the UK, Sam's #9 'Starfighter' is on sale for a mere £10 at The Works bookshop. I was so happy to randomly find it yesterday after taking an interest in Sam's recommendation. Result!
always keep an eye out on their website. recently did metal adventures and ryu for a tenner each. and they are always sending codes for %25 off so games cost 7.50
Lee Winson I saw both those games at The Works too. Are they any good? I was surreptitiously trying to BGG them while in the shop but it was really busy so I gave up!
Dreadbeard metal adventures seems a good game if everyone gets into the spirit (like cosmic encounters) while ryu is a simple concept but beautifully designed. order from website as it is free delivery to the store and you get emails with codes offering discounts. i got ryu for 7.50
For people trying to pronounce Ignacy Trzewiczek last name, here is guide :) You know or heird about actor Chevy Chase ? the way to say Ignacy last name is very close to that but with Check instead of Chase , now combine it into one word . CHEVY-CHECK
Just got Yamatai as well, hoping to play it tomorrow. I looked at Five Tribes, but I liked the turn selection method in Yamatai better than just bidding, but FT is still on my short list to get.
4 player chess done right is called bug house, Pantheon is a necessary expansion for 7 Wonders Duel, and the elf expansion needs to be made for Battlelore 2nd edition.
Five Tribes is probably best at 2 players, lest chaotic, more control over what you're doing. You can actually have 4 turns in a row depending on how you bid, since you have 2 pawns per round.
Antoine Lefebvre The 4 turns each goes back and forth until that super score 'fifth' action comes up. Then bidding takes the value of the move down a notch. But a '5th' AND a '6th' super score combo?! That's why 5 Tribes 2-player is awesome lol
To be fair, what is strategic or complicated for one person may not be that complicated for another person. So, Dice Masters may just be a complicated, strategic for some people.
That is how I feel about Dice Masters, there are no real decisions to be made, roll the dice, do the obvious choice and pass the turn. For me it is not strategic at all, which is why I am shocked Tom included it on the strategic games list, but he does not really like to think too much when playing games so that may be part of it. He is into playing game more for the social aspect than for delving deep into a strategic game, we each have our own reasons for enjoying the hobby.
Some games that I would add to this top 10 and some games that I would have added to the casual 2-players top 10: - Viceroy - Elysium - Quadropolis - Tragedy Looper - The Ravens of Thri Sahashri - KUNE v LAKIA - Greenland and/or Neanderthal - Pax Renaissance - Warhammer Quest: The Adventure Card Game (There should be some copies around, specially in the second market) - It's Mine - Stellar Conflict (even if it is a reimplementation of lightspeed, from 2013)
Guys, I'm looking for a game that gives a feel of a story created with the events that happen throughout the game, based on its mechanics. I always felt computer games like heroes or civilization were the real story building games. After every game (usually long one) I always felt I created a unique story which I was even able to tell someone. I was really hoping to see here those kind of games, although I understand the "strategy" is a wide term. Anyone can recommend something for two? I guess the war of the ring or star wars rebellion would be the right choice, but as far as I know it takes a really long time to play, while 3 hours for me is rather a maximum considering my situation. Thanks for any help
Dominion is good 3 and 4 player, but AMAZING 2 player. Also I want to try Viticulture 2 player but I think every opportunity I'll have to bring it to the table will probably be multiplayer...
I heard of a game: team play chess 2 vs 2, and if you are a bad player and team up with a good player, he cannot help you so the game can be more balanced.
@@Keithustus It's an hyperbole, they average 10 seconds. Literally just press L on your keyboard and they'll be skipped if they're that big of a deal. Now the 3D animations on the other hand, those happen often so it's reasonable to say they're annoying
I think Ashes is one of the best, if not the best, two player card & dice games out there. I find it much more interesting, challenging and rewarding than Star Wars: Destiny.
Michael Ormiston It doesn’t change it that much. The expansion is for the people that like the vanilla. The best thing it adds Is that it makes the combat much more enjoyable and strategic.
Tom/Sam/Zee's game preferences aren't in wargames or card driven games like TS. They rarely play or review GMT games or games similar to TS. Notice no mention of TS, Combat Commander, Commands and Colors series, etc.
3:03 NUMBER 10
3:10 Sam: High Heavens (2015)
5:11 Tom: Thunder & Lightning (2016)
7:04 Zee: Rum & Bones: Second Tide (2017)
9:21 NUMBER 9
9:55 Tom: Stronghold (2nd Ed) (2015)
11:50 Zee: Via Nebula (2016)
13:44 Sam: Starfighter (2015)
15:18 NUMBER 8
15:22 Zee: Covert (2016)
17:07 Sam: 7 Wonders Duel (2015)
18:36 Tom: Star Wars: Rebellion (2016)
19:44 NUMBER 7
19:47 Zee: Viticulture (2013)
21:30 Tom: Fields of Arle (2014)
22:34 Sam: Caverna: Cave vs Cave (2017)
25:03 NUMBER 6
25:06 Tom: 1775: Rebellion (2013)
27:29 Sam: Specter Ops (2015)
29:50 Zee: LYNGK (2017)
31:23 NUMBER 5
31:27 Sam: Hero Realms (2016)
33:35 Zee: Arkham Horror: The Card Game (2016)
35:21 Tom: Star Wars: Armada (2015)
36:52 NUMBER 4
36:56 Sam: Summoner Wars: Alliances Master Set (2014)
38:13 Tom: A Feast for Odin (2016)
39:33 Zee: Lewis & Clark (2013)
41:05 NUMBER 3
41:09 Tom: BattleLore (2nd Ed) (2013)
43:29 Zee: Imperial Settlers (2014)
44:55 Sam: 878 Vikings: Invasions of England (2017)
47:46 NUMBER 2
47:51 Zee: 7 Wonders Duel (2015)
46:50 Sam: Star Wars: Rebellion (2016)
52:12 Tom: Codex (2016)
53:34 NUMBER 1
54:27 Sam: Warhammer Underworlds: Shadespire (2017)
56:31 Tom: Dice Masters (2014-2020)
58:31 Zee: Five Tribes (2014)
Full Lists
1:02:00 - Tom
1:02:09 - Sam
1:02:18 - Zee
I know a couple years late but here is the list! :)
May be a year late but me in the present really appreciates your effort
Hil Steketee I’m just glad it help someone besides myself!
7 Wonders Duel (2015) (2x)
Star Wars: Rebellion (2016) (2x)
All the others are only 1x.
I respectfully disagree with Tom’s approach. I’d imagine most people watching this list would want to know “what is a good game to play with two people?”. Not “what is a good game to play with two people that wouldn’t work with other player counts?” if it’s amazing with two I’ll play it with two; I’m not going to avoid playing it because it could also play more.
“Hey can us two play that game?” “Oh that game is amazing two player, but it also plays three or four really well. So, no. Get out my house”
Nonetheless, great video. Thank you for making it.
Haha "Get out my house"
It would be nice if you could have more images of the game as you guys are discussing it, use the tv in the background for that, just my suggestion, big fan, thanks!
Looks like they listened to you! (I'm newish to board gaming and the Dice Tower!)
Zee your list was great! Really lines up to my tastes and now I know some new games I need to pick up. You're my favorite host!
Been watching you guys for years. Never stop putting these videos out
I do like Five Tribes. That is a great 2 player game. That was a solid choice by Zee.
These lists are so great! Super entertaining to watch and lots of great information. I would vote for more images of the games you are discussing.
Sam' tends to have a lot of strange rules for these lists that only exist in his own head
Sam "He makes Kylo look like a festering whelp." Zee "The movies do that." Lol
Great little exchange
Their immediate, grovelling defence of the movies kinda ruined it.
Thank you Zee! Five Tribes is sooooo good as a 2 player game. It is a great multi player game too, but having the two pawns in the two player version makes it even more strategic.
Star Wars Rebellion in 2 hours? Is this a joke?! I think I've once played it in about 3.5 hours, but most games take 4-5 hours. Yes, we are probably a bit slower than we should be, but it's so tense and you don't want to make one mistake because it can be devastating, so I find it's a real battle of wits to outthink your opponent. And that just adds time. It'd be a dream to get it done in 2 hours, it'd hit the table way more often!
We always are between 2,5 - 3 hours.
vic7000 that and i keep doing my own versions of the battle themes and stuff
I collect Card driven games that play with two players.
10. Halls of Montazuma
9. Crusade and Revolution
8 . Command and Colors are variants
7. Making of the President
6. 1866 The Struggle for Germany
5. Twilight Struggle
4. Saints in Armor
3. For the People
2. Wilderness War
1. Washington's War
Zee’s choice of Lyngk was spot on. This is an incredible game if you have about ten plays of experience and a solid opponent. The best GIPF.
Star Wars Rebellion would be great for live play - especially with Zee!!!
I agree that Zee may enjoy it, despite its length. The game is totally engrossing and you are constantly involved.
12:55 Sam low key drops the Braveheart line and i had to go back and make sure i wasnt imagining things! Awesome!
2 hours for Star Wars: Rebellion .. ZEE! IT'S A TRAP!!
Zee... popcorn bag was crackin' me up.
11 months later, Sam tried putting a remake of a Warhammer game on his “best of 2018” list and Tom took issue with it. Now, just take a look at Tom’s #10 on this list. :D
Good list. I totally agree with Tom about Battlelore Second Edition.
It is such a fantastic, underrated game and it is a shame Fantasy Flight has abandoned it in favor of Runewars Miniatures Game. With Battlelore they had the potential to have the "fantasy memoir 44" and a game for the ages. Instead they chose to go the money line with Runewars Miniatures Game. Pretty ironic RMG is offered everywhere in the bargain/sales now...
RedZorn Man so true. And it hurts that one of the first expansions to rune wars was an elf army, which is something I clamored for in Battlelore 2.0 but we never got.
A good time, but, ah man, the time before even starting playing though
They need to do a All verses One top 10, and Abstract if they haven't done it yet.
Tom's face on Zee's number 10 was priceless. Great list guys!
I collect mostly deck building games or card games and usually play two players.
Here's my top 10 Strategic 2 player game for card game lovers:
10. Nightmare before Christmas TCG (Yes, the old dead TCG)
9. Core World with first expansion ( Deckbuilding game with tough mathematics and card counting)
8. Brass (I know it's a board game but I LOVE the card play (for area control) in this game)
7. Blue Moon (that small foot print...)
6. Codex (Even if I played really bad I still enjoy it)
5. Blood Bowl Team Manager (I think its best for two player)
4. A few acres of snow ( Or Mythotopia if the balance issue really bothers you)
3. 13 days ( Fast, small with lot of fun mind games)
2. Android Netrunner ( The guessing part is very good even without proper card pool)
1. Arkham Horror LCG ( Best gaming experience in 2017 for sure)
Five tribes is great 2 player. I always remove 1 or 2 of the Djins which are clearly for multiplayer though. Otherwise the board can get clogged up with 3 whose powers really don’t lend themselves to 2 player games. The thieves mini-expansion helps with this a bit but I find it still can happen.
Chris Mennell I actually think the game does not play well either at a low player count. There may be less AP and more chances to do what you plan. I admit the game is less chaotic; one thing I dislike of the game is that your strategy for the round shifts so rapidly when you don't go first which leads you to adapt, and it gets bad when you go last as it can happen that your 2 other contingency actions have been taken. Thus, the need for constant planning and AP. However, at 2 players, I feel that the game play is much more similar. It becomes a constant back n forth of fighting for turn order so that you can do two actions in a row. That makes the game drop in regards to the strategy behind it. I wish they would have had a special set of rules for two players. But, overall this is not my favorite game.
I find the thief mini-expansion rather wierd in the 2 player game. It's not that beneficial compared to in a 3/4/5 player game with the damage a thief can do. Specially I take Morgana out for a 2 player game.
Agreed. The bidding for turn order becomes an even more important part of the game at two player. I love this game at all player counts but two player is really good.
Great list and vibes as usual! Just to throw Spirit Island out there, love it as a 2 player.
with the expansion
I like Kingdomino (watched a playthrough of Queendomino and a lot of the extra rules just seemed like random nonsense) and Aeon's End.
We have Hero Realms and Ruin of Thandar (actually got Hero Realms for this expansion) but didn't realise we also need character packs so just waiting for them to arrive before we play.
But one of my favourite 2-player strategy games is Drako, though it's quite old and out of print. I think the original idea was that they would add lots of factions but they never went through with that so it's just dwarves vs a dragon
I recommend giving Queendomino a try. What it adds to Kingdomino is nicely integrated into the game and once you get playing, makes sense. One example, if you have a territory without crowns, you now have a means to generate points from it. It does add more decisions and does slow the game down, especially if you play 7x7, so I do reserve Kingdomino for simpler, quicker experiences. Enjoy!
Ok, though Kingdomino fits the lighter part of my collection nicely anyway. I have quite a few (mostly more thematic) heavier games for the longer sessions. But I'll keep it in mind if we need a Kingdomino++ :)
Thanks
For me, recently, I've found that I'm really liking a lot of my games at 2 player counts - mostly because they play quicker.
My Top 10 Strategic 2 Player Games:
10. The Castles of Burgundy (I like it with all player counts, but it's best with 2)
9. Hero Realms
8. Dominion (Best with 2, so fast and smooth that way. I still like it at all player counts though.)
7. 7 Wonders Duel (w/ expansion)
6. World's Fair 1893 (Best with 2, but like it with more.)
5. Caverna: The Cave Farmers (I didn't expect that I'd prefer this one so much with 2...which makes me wonder why I paid for the components for 7...ugh!)
4. Grand Austria Hotel (I'll play with 3, never with 4, but it's BEST at 2.)
3. Roll Player (Again, works well at all player counts, but it's so much quicker with 2 and I enjoy it best with 2.)
2. Puerto Rico (I also enjoy this at all player counts, but the 2 player variant is surprisingly better for me)
1. Great Western Trail (I do enjoy it at all player counts, but it's BEST at 2)
IMHO, this is a better list than any in the video.
Nice, Via Nebula. I like that game but i never hear it mentioned.
Via Nebule is excellent!
My family loves it... three or two player!
I agree with Sam - there's a good amount of strategy involved in Hero Realms, particularly when you introduce both the character packs and the character upgrades that come with the "Ruin of Thandar" campaign.
Is a top 2 player co op list feasible?
Absolutely, so long as you allow players to play multiple characters (Gloomhaven, Robinson Crusoe, etc.).
It's a list I'd love to see, but sadly I don't think there are many co-ops that play substantially differently, but also really well, with just 2 players. I'd be very happy to be proved wrong though. The Ravens of Thri Sahashri is my favourite 2 player only co-op atm.
David Morrison They will play differently if they have a general pool of time for choosing actions together (Robinson Cruise) vs those that have sequential turns (Pandemic). Adding more players makes the latter worse but not the former.
Totally agree with Zee regarding Lewis & Clark...a great 2 player game, that lingers too much with extra players.
Actually also with 3 is not so bad either...
Tom, just want to point out that 4 player chess is actually REALLY fun haha! Not 2v2 the way you described it, but if you get a 4 player chess board and play free for all it's actually a really interesting variant.
Who the hell said 'cheers' at 43:26?
I think the part about Rebellion that doesn't appeal to wargamers (like myself) is not the depth and complexity of the rules, but the fact it's really game-y and doesn't feel like a simulation. There's rules in there that just feel bizarre from a wargamer standpoint. I do still like the game, but it really doesn't scratch the itch I'd hoped it would.
Miss here Imperial assault, especially skirmish and also higly tactical pax renaissance, which is my number one due inovative mechanisms, historical context and a tons of choices of what you can do.
I hope you update this list as 2 player strategy games are one of my favorite genres
For me and my friends, Mythic Battles Pantheon is the nr 1. 2nd is Battlelore, 3th is Warhammer Undergrounds Shadespire, 4th Scythe and 5th Bloodrage :-)
Great job on the list guys!
Excellent video with some great games in there. I think the Academy Games are especially good for really, really light war games. The one teensy correction is that High Heavens has Greek and Norse Gods with an Egyptian expansion available.
Sam, if you like WH: Shadespire, you really should give Corvus Belli's *Aristeia!* a play through. It's more of a MOBA in how you build your 'team' of 4 and CB is adding more heroes that you can integrate into your game play. Light deck-building, great dice system, and very intuitive movement and general mechanics. Plus, each hero operates very differently and adds really unique abilities and combo possibilities to the rest of your team.
Yes Zee i would love to see a Rebellion live play! Loved your Codex play through as well
Tom is right about Caverna. Even my wife likes Caverna as a 2-player. I'm amazed at how quickly we can play a game with 2 players.
Great list guys, I really need to get Thunder & Lightning already. Top strategic 2 player games for me got to be:
Claustrophobia
Lord of the Rings: The Card Game
Seasons
Aeon's End
7 Wonders Duel
Five Tribes
Covert
Santorini-Casual in learning the game, but it can be quite strategic and feels like a modern Chess game
Tom I usually agree with you on most things, but you couldn't be more wrong about Covert just being an "okay" game. Definitely an under-rated game, but I respect your opinion always :)
Rebellion live with Zee! :)
He likes "the Star Wars"
Five tribes is a great game. I'd also recommend Tak, another abstract strategy game.
Top Ten 5 player games it is a hard number to find games from that are not all party like games. I wish Battlelore was still supported instead of the miniatures game too.
There's always Battlestar Galactica!
Kemet and Cyclades. I haven't played either at five but I can tell they really shine at five players.
Zee, when you play Arkham Horror LCG solo, do you play one or two investigators?
Scott Tackett I play one, it is very tight and highly recommended
I play just one investigator. - Zee
how in the world is twilight struggle not in any of their top 10 lists?
Great game, but came out before 2013.
Just watched the vid that was put out in 2014, gonna see how much has changed :)
I enjoy this video. I enjoy Star Wars Rebellion. You can play it in 2 hours if you only count time your finger is touching a cardboard chit, plastic figure, or rolling dice. And you don't count the time to set up and break down.
Cave vs cave feels NOTHING like caverna
2 player Viticulture is great, but I miss being able to use the bonus actions that are used with a higher player count. Here is a great variant that gives the ability to use those bonus actions in the 2 player game. With approval for further playtesting from Jamey Stegmaier www.boardgamegeek.com/thread/1579766/2-player-variant-using-bonus-actions
I play mainly with my wife (Thus 2 player) and we recently discovered Via Nebula and it truly is great game that you do not hear about very often. Great pic Zee.
Thoughts on Trajan, Tzolk'in: The Mayan Calendar, and Azul as 2 player games? I've played these as both a 2 and 4 player game and find that the 2 player version of these games is more strategic then 3 or 4 players.
bcmaledragon thumbs up for Tzolk'in
My wife and I really like Azul and the new summer version with two players. I think Tzolkin is better with 3/4
I find the Knezia classic 'Samurai' to be great with 2 players It has enough tactical and strategic depth but is really quick to play.
It's my long lost cousin, Dreadbeard!
Samurai is sublime with 2.
For anyone in the UK, Sam's #9 'Starfighter' is on sale for a mere £10 at The Works bookshop. I was so happy to randomly find it yesterday after taking an interest in Sam's recommendation. Result!
always keep an eye out on their website. recently did metal adventures and ryu for a tenner each. and they are always sending codes for %25 off so games cost 7.50
Lee Winson I saw both those games at The Works too. Are they any good? I was surreptitiously trying to BGG them while in the shop but it was really busy so I gave up!
Dreadbeard metal adventures seems a good game if everyone gets into the spirit (like cosmic encounters) while ryu is a simple concept but beautifully designed. order from website as it is free delivery to the store and you get emails with codes offering discounts. i got ryu for 7.50
Would pandemic legacy be good as a two player game?
Its fantastic with 2
Playing with the wife, just getting into September. It's great!
My son is a Pandemic freak, like Zee; but even he didn't like it as much with only him and I.
Yes Sam! New movies are good, but a Thrawn/Zahn trilogy would have been better !
Zee is 100% right about 7 Wonders: Duel. Pantheon makes the game so much better. Love the game, but I won’t play it without Pantheon.
I like Pantheon myself since it's allows me to actually beat the wife once in a while. Of course, she does not like for that very same reason. :)
@@dreadknot69 you beat your wife?!
For people trying to pronounce Ignacy Trzewiczek last name, here is guide :)
You know or heird about actor Chevy Chase ? the way to say Ignacy last name is very close to that but with Check instead of Chase , now combine it into one word . CHEVY-CHECK
Five tribes is my wife's favorite. Just got Yamatai so I hope it is a hit with us.
Just got Yamatai as well, hoping to play it tomorrow. I looked at Five Tribes, but I liked the turn selection method in Yamatai better than just bidding, but FT is still on my short list to get.
Gordon Walls I highly recommend 5 tribes. With the expansions it's great.
Viticulture with the Tuscany expansion is amazing.
Did Zee ever try Star Wars Rebellion?
Nice top DT! A bit impressed with some games
4 player chess done right is called bug house, Pantheon is a necessary expansion for 7 Wonders Duel, and the elf expansion needs to be made for Battlelore 2nd edition.
Five Tribes is probably best at 2 players, lest chaotic, more control over what you're doing. You can actually have 4 turns in a row depending on how you bid, since you have 2 pawns per round.
Antoine Lefebvre The 4 turns each goes back and forth until that super score 'fifth' action comes up. Then bidding takes the value of the move down a notch. But a '5th' AND a '6th' super score combo?! That's why 5 Tribes 2-player is awesome lol
I haven’t played it at a higher player count, but my wife and I enjoyed City of Iron: Second Edition quite a bit!
Tom! Why wasn't Feast for Odin on your casual list??
It's anything but casual.
The Dice Tower I should have put a winky face to indicate the (admittedly poor) joke! :P
Nice Haunted Game Cafe hat, Zee! When are you coming back to Fort Collins for a visit?
To be fair, what is strategic or complicated for one person may not be that complicated for another person. So, Dice Masters may just be a complicated, strategic for some people.
taylor Yup, exactly. And that is why 7W:Duel is also casual for me. Every choice is obvious. Might have to try the expansion someday.
That is how I feel about Dice Masters, there are no real decisions to be made, roll the dice, do the obvious choice and pass the turn. For me it is not strategic at all, which is why I am shocked Tom included it on the strategic games list, but he does not really like to think too much when playing games so that may be part of it. He is into playing game more for the social aspect than for delving deep into a strategic game, we each have our own reasons for enjoying the hobby.
Some games that I would add to this top 10 and some games that I would have added to the casual 2-players top 10:
- Viceroy
- Elysium
- Quadropolis
- Tragedy Looper
- The Ravens of Thri Sahashri
- KUNE v LAKIA
- Greenland and/or Neanderthal
- Pax Renaissance
- Warhammer Quest: The Adventure Card Game (There should be some copies around, specially in the second market)
- It's Mine
- Stellar Conflict (even if it is a reimplementation of lightspeed, from 2013)
Guys, I'm looking for a game that gives a feel of a story created with the events that happen throughout the game, based on its mechanics. I always felt computer games like heroes or civilization were the real story building games. After every game (usually long one) I always felt I created a unique story which I was even able to tell someone. I was really hoping to see here those kind of games, although I understand the "strategy" is a wide term. Anyone can recommend something for two? I guess the war of the ring or star wars rebellion would be the right choice, but as far as I know it takes a really long time to play, while 3 hours for me is rather a maximum considering my situation. Thanks for any help
GloomHaven.
Thanks, but it's not really what I was thinking about. Actually I have GH, but it's not really a strategy game, right?
Hive is my favorite. It's never mentioned on any of these lists so maybe I'm a board game noob haha
Why no mention of Santorini?
The Battle of Five Armies!!
Dominion is good 3 and 4 player, but AMAZING 2 player. Also I want to try Viticulture 2 player but I think every opportunity I'll have to bring it to the table will probably be multiplayer...
*Elysium* is a sleeping gem. its 2 players variant is very good. I would LOOooove for a company to do expensions.
PLEASE can you guys do an update to this.
I heard of a game: team play chess 2 vs 2, and if you are a bad player and team up with a good player, he cannot help you so the game can be more balanced.
I've seen Tom tired before, but never THIS tired! Omg he looks so bored! :D
Rum and Bones is a casual game IMO. I like all of their lists.
There is a deathstar kind develop in The Brink of War expansion for Race for the Galaxy. You can Destroy planets with it
I've started just scrolling through to get Zee's choices... Dice Masters!?!
Matthew Elias dude. You rolls the dice, and then use the currency to buy more dice and summon creatures. What's not strategic about that? Lol
Is Akrotiri older than 5 Years? I'm surprised it isn't on anyone's list.
I agree, it is a fantastic game.
Bring back the die roll for #1's
Oh hell no, biggest waste of time on the channel.
@@Keithustus It took 3 seconds, you call that a waste?
Superstar Banana Mix Show me one video where it only took three seconds. I doubt you can count accurately.
@@Keithustus It's an hyperbole, they average 10 seconds. Literally just press L on your keyboard and they'll be skipped if they're that big of a deal. Now the 3D animations on the other hand, those happen often so it's reasonable to say they're annoying
Based on the number 7 banter, I'm guessing Sam's number 1 is Apples to Apples: Duel.
"I like the Star Wars"
My 8 yr old and I LOVE BattleLore 2e!
Was surprised Tom didn’t put Ashes on there as I thought he loved it.
I think Ashes is one of the best, if not the best, two player card & dice games out there. I find it much more interesting, challenging and rewarding than Star Wars: Destiny.
It's a shame Battlelore 2nd Edition basically got discontinued.
Tom should really play Star Wars:Rebellion with the expansions.
I need to play rebellion with the expansion then, because the base game just feels the same every game
Michael Ormiston It doesn’t change it that much. The expansion is for the people that like the vanilla. The best thing it adds Is that it makes the combat much more enjoyable and strategic.
If you like Five Tribes, check out Deja Vu: Fragments of Memory on KS now.
It takes two to make a feast go right.
because its a Euro and the rules are tight?
I'm surprised Twilight Struggle did not show up.
I believe it's too old...?
Yeah. I watched the list in two sittings and forgot about that caveat.
Tom/Sam/Zee's game preferences aren't in wargames or card driven games like TS. They rarely play or review GMT games or games similar to TS. Notice no mention of TS, Combat Commander, Commands and Colors series, etc.
ignorants.
Both Tm and Sam had it on their previous list.
Have you guys been watching Thrawn in the Rebels animated series?
Hmm, well apparently, Othello came out before Technicolor. Heh! (...it's funny because the game of Othello uses black and white discs...)
Did the sound seem really low quality in this video for anyone else?
Twilight Struggle?
unachimba9 They had a rule that it had to be published in the last 5 years, they had twilight struggle in the previous top 10 two player list.
If there’s an Eldar faction I’d play Dice Masters with you (or even Tau faction)
YES!!! COVERT!!! Needs more love.