I rarely comment on your videos, even though I watch them all. Well done for this video weel made, and sums up a lot of good ideas. I hope it finds a positive echo with FFG for the future of the game. All gamers want to see this game succeed.
Power decreep is such a weird phenomenon, and I agree it's real, but I think that yes it does come down to design leads and my feeling is that the games that were there to test these sets were probably very different from the competitive games as they are played now. Let's see what the future holds and merry Christmas!!!
Completely agree I hope that now that we are at as stage where the sets are being designed while the game is being played at a competitive level by the community, the quality of the balance is going to improve moving forward. Merry Christmas!
I think that you are right about a lot of areas, and while I do think that set 3 is weak as well, I feel like it is because they were too afraid with the mechanic that they created. I would love to see more that they do with tokens in order to have a "Go Wide" strategy and make those with coordinate or exploit stronger. There is two big things I do hope for 2025, that you still create awesome videos and stay the amazing player you are!
Great Video, I think more stuff like this should be put out. We all want the game to grow and be successful. I don't want it to be an FFG Bash-Fest but we should give as much feedback that hopefully they see and hear. They seem open to adjusting which is a good sign. Content leaders such as yourself and a few others have the biggest voice. So its nice to see you point certain things out. My biggest fear for growth of the game is FFG missing on the Galactic Champs Prize Structure. Personally I think cash prizes are a must to compete with other games and I fear that if they don't announce that, It will be the beginning of the end for SWU. The CCG market is oversaturated as it is and if they want to big a big player, they need to keep up with the other big players in the market. I would love to see a video where you take the Set 3 Legendary cards and change them to what you think they should be without changing the intent of the card completely. I think that would be a fun video to watch. I think FFG has been way to "careful" with set design especially the Legendary cards. IE: Chancellor Palpatine unit, if he was a single yellow ICON I think he would be playable and not broken or overpowered in any way. The other thing I would enjoy hearing from you, or other big content creators is your opinion on how the set designs with new mechanics are structured and released. They seem to be "One and Done" for the most part. Set 2 we got Smuggle and Capture and in set 3 there is zero smuggle and very few Capture cards. Then in set 3 they throw in Tokes, Coordinate and Exploit, which I would assume set 4 has little to no support for that. Making certain leaders shelf-life 4 months. I love the approach of CCG's having a "Block" where its one giant set and broken up into 3 sets. So they have a sense of continuity and each set you get that minor creep on power, then Set 4 starts a "New Block" and creeps back down in power level, rinse repeat. Sorry for the block of text. Keep up the great work and thanks for helping the community!
One of the big draws of the weekly packs for me is that I can get the starter cards for that set in them without buying the starter decks . I wonder how the changes to the starter decks will affect the weeklys.
Very good and deep explanation of power level. I skipped pre ordering the box in set 3 (I ordered in set 1 and 2) bc legendaries are ABSOLUTE TRASH. There are few good ones, but in set 1 I was happy pulling ANY Legendary. Worst is Devastator IMO, but it is still playable in few decks. If set 4 will not fix that, I will just get rid of my cards, just keep 1-2 decks I like to play from time to time.
I agree for the most part. Regarding mechanics / themes used in set 3 that ended up unused in competitive: It is regrettable and a bad sign, but there are multiple sides to this. I see 2 kinds of mechanics / themes: - deeply interconnected ones They have a lot of synergy within them, but they need a critical mass to work. Depending on the strength of cards they can evolve into a competitive archetype. The downside being, that this type doesn't work well with previous or new cards as they heavily rely on a given mechanic. For example Energy in Magic (with a few exception cards) - loosely interconnected ones These cards, while having a theme, don't need a critical mass of cards with the mechanic as they work by themselves in combination with old and new cards. They usually don't end up creating a new archetype, but the most powerful ones get added to competitive deck lists if strong enough. This often looks like the archetype has failed despite having some copies that see play
Totally agree, hopefully ffg watch this and stop being so conservative with power levels of cards after set 1 was so strong it went downhill for the next 2 sets
Honestly, I think they need to start looking into an official online client, but only if they introduce a product code card (exactly like in Pokemon) to help encourage play both in person and digital. This would definitely give a more flexible option for people to play the game who don't have the time or opportunity to play in person as much or as often as they may want to. It, along with good competitive prizing, could really help to poach pro players from other games as it gives a flexible option for streaming gameplay. It would also give FFG a chance to reorganize the pack layout so showcases aren't sitting on top and potentially getting damaged. This is more of a pipedream and making sure the competitive prizing structure has real incentives to it would take precedence. However, if Karabast has proven anything its that there is at least some market/demand for this way to play the game.
On this I am a bit specktical, I am really afraid that an official Online client would almost comepletly canibalize physical play especially weekly play. But for content creator like me it would surely be awesome lol.
I think at some point will stop saying how the new set (at that moment) is weaker than the previous one to realize how they're meant to mix together and not be strong alone. At least that's how I see it, yes set 3 as weaker legendaries overall let's say but some cards fit really well into set2 decks. Curious to see how powerful set4 will be tho.
Great points. Agree. Also hope they design more "aggresively" but also ban aggresively. It is difficult to really get it consistently right in TCGs, so rather focus on being dynamic & interesting and then fixing / tweaking big mistakes. The worst you can do is stale, boring and irrelevant. I really like SWU gameplay design. But I am also interested in overall TCG gameplay, strategy/tactics design space and echo system design. The SWU community was a bit quick (understandably) to declare it the best outside the "Top 3" - whilst I think there is actually a lot they can still learn from Flesh & Blood and One Piece in particular. Both games also really stepped up after initial problems. You can argue after 3+ sets they are better than SWU and it is on SWU to show with set 4 that they have learned and stepped up. It will be a big set for FFG!
Take just One Piece now on Set 9 in West, some things to look at: (1) Box value is good. Set have lots of special treatment chase cards but also "meta cards". Still overall most meta decks are not very expensive. (2) Reprints have also worked really well to (a) bring some meta card prices down, (b) revive leaders, (c) provide support to respond to meta. (3) ST decks - work really well as not only starter decks, but a basis to build meta decks. (4) One Piece whilst having S-Tier leaders has been pretty dynamic in terms of not letting them stay too long. Much closer to your wish for SWU with card design. But especially now I think you can say in addition: (a) Viable Tier 1 and Tier 2 decks that top cut and win big events. (b) Combo and "sand castle"(allowing you to play your game) decks that are viable. (c) Meta decks tend to have cards from across sets and cards that rotate in-out according to meta. (Sure the SWU pool might just be too small to have so many relevant cards) (d) Some (b) type decks have pretty self contained cards but also get cards everynow and then. Point with (c) and (d) being set design seem to try and accommodate new, old and forgotten.
Power Creep is NOT better than Power Decreep. Magic is ruined because of how every single card is a bomb. Keep a semi-constant power level and innovate with mechanics instead of going the braindead creep route.
100% agree. Power creep might be one way to sell product but it also ruins the game long term. You don’t need power creep to sell product. You can do it by making the cards interesting in other ways. Not strictly speaking better, but able to work in decks to make the decks better. And you will always have legendary cards etc that are outliers.
In all fairness, Thorrk was not advocating explicitly for power creep, but rather that it's preferred to power decreep. Which is correct. You bring up Magic, but that's a bit of a strawman because Magic is to one extreme of it.
@ Thorrk said that power creep is preferable to power decreep and that power creep has two upsides. How can you hear that as anything but advocating for power creep?
The surge frame on those alt art cards is sooo ugly. Ready for FFG to move on from them. Like you suggested, I hope they just give us hyperspace borders.
As a competative player, ill hope FFG does alot more for -casual- players. While you're right that the major demographic for comp. play is older men, the overall playerbase, especially the casual players are more diverse. in my region is more or less the same 50 people competing and high reward tournaments with some locals filling up the ranks. weekly play is the only occasion casula players can meet others to play the game on more relaxed level. if you give incentives to "farm" these events too, i am pretty sure it has a very unhealthy effect on the game in general. If you don't have a private group to jam some games, there isn't a good chance you can play game more casual than in meta net-decked prized events. Also, being to aggressive on cash prizes in the tournaments structure gives too much incentive for bad behaviour and cheating imo. At least for now i don't see a strong enough judge- and organized play structure to support this with the necessary rule and sanction enforcement. Some of our events still struggle to enforce fringe rules correctly/efficiently. I would wish fo a patient competative playerbase in this regards. Regarding Promochoices: Well, i don't mind chase cards as payoffs for a top 8/16/ etc. It's just that people complain about sets not having enough -value- that single prints into the market won't help the matter. Still, a lot fair points were made. I also think the coloured borders are atrocious and should go asap. I am not a fan of power creep and i like the flat design approach of the SW:U design team. Still you are right in regards of the new archetypes struggling to keep up with the established meta archetypes. I am still baffeld we have no battlefield marine for republic or an snowtrooper lieutenant for seperatists. appreciate new approaches and its functional reprints in other tribes and mechenical copies for other archetypes that eneable competition in deck building decisions. Yet i feel the lacking archetypes are rather easy to fix going forward.
I Agree with you, I think there should be event that give good participation prize where people come to play the game casually something like a big "weekly play'. You raise very good points about the downside of a more competitve environement, but I think overall the upside outweight the downsides, which can be mitigated (cheating, bad sportmationship...) Making super competitive event and create a more casual friendly environement are not mutually exlusive. Nobody is a fan of power creep but trust me when I say that the alternative to power creep is far worst.
I think the ugly framed OP cards are a cost thing. The frames are on the OP cards that are in boosters and do not have alternate art. So making them hyperspace would make them identical to the normal cards from boosters. Making them all alternate art would be the solution but it would cost FFG. I 100% agree with the idea of having a chance of getting sone special cards. Interestingly both these issues might be solved in set 4 since we have the new decks instead of starter decks. I would hope they put the special cards from those decks in the OP boosters. And have them with alt art.
Well when an unknown company, with no major IP behind its back maange to be the most popular TCG after the big 3, you know they did a couple of things right.
I could see both coordinate and exploit cards getting stronger with future sets. We already know more tokens are coming in the next set which should mean more viability for both of these card types. It feels like people are a little premature judging sets power level since these sets will most likely be around for at least another year minimum mixing with other future sets. I'd take power decreep over power creep. Of course perfect balance isn't possible so ideally it'll shift a little up and down and balance out overall. Power creep and overcomplicated cards are two of the biggest reasons for me leaving MTG.
Alternative art bases would be a nice promo.
Yes, we sill don't have any way to get Hyperspace foil 30 HP base !
Even Showcase bases would be cool.
Official draft tournaments with decent prizing would be a great addition to the scene :)
“Dads have a lot of money but not a lot of time “
It’s like you’re speaking to my soul.
Around when did he say this? I'm not watching 54 minutes
I rarely comment on your videos, even though I watch them all. Well done for this video weel made, and sums up a lot of good ideas. I hope it finds a positive echo with FFG for the future of the game.
All gamers want to see this game succeed.
Power decreep is such a weird phenomenon, and I agree it's real, but I think that yes it does come down to design leads and my feeling is that the games that were there to test these sets were probably very different from the competitive games as they are played now. Let's see what the future holds and merry Christmas!!!
Completely agree I hope that now that we are at as stage where the sets are being designed while the game is being played at a competitive level by the community, the quality of the balance is going to improve moving forward. Merry Christmas!
I think that you are right about a lot of areas, and while I do think that set 3 is weak as well, I feel like it is because they were too afraid with the mechanic that they created. I would love to see more that they do with tokens in order to have a "Go Wide" strategy and make those with coordinate or exploit stronger.
There is two big things I do hope for 2025, that you still create awesome videos and stay the amazing player you are!
Thanks man !
Great Video, I think more stuff like this should be put out. We all want the game to grow and be successful. I don't want it to be an FFG Bash-Fest but we should give as much feedback that hopefully they see and hear. They seem open to adjusting which is a good sign. Content leaders such as yourself and a few others have the biggest voice. So its nice to see you point certain things out.
My biggest fear for growth of the game is FFG missing on the Galactic Champs Prize Structure. Personally I think cash prizes are a must to compete with other games and I fear that if they don't announce that, It will be the beginning of the end for SWU. The CCG market is oversaturated as it is and if they want to big a big player, they need to keep up with the other big players in the market.
I would love to see a video where you take the Set 3 Legendary cards and change them to what you think they should be without changing the intent of the card completely. I think that would be a fun video to watch. I think FFG has been way to "careful" with set design especially the Legendary cards. IE: Chancellor Palpatine unit, if he was a single yellow ICON I think he would be playable and not broken or overpowered in any way.
The other thing I would enjoy hearing from you, or other big content creators is your opinion on how the set designs with new mechanics are structured and released. They seem to be "One and Done" for the most part. Set 2 we got Smuggle and Capture and in set 3 there is zero smuggle and very few Capture cards. Then in set 3 they throw in Tokes, Coordinate and Exploit, which I would assume set 4 has little to no support for that. Making certain leaders shelf-life 4 months. I love the approach of CCG's having a "Block" where its one giant set and broken up into 3 sets. So they have a sense of continuity and each set you get that minor creep on power, then Set 4 starts a "New Block" and creeps back down in power level, rinse repeat.
Sorry for the block of text. Keep up the great work and thanks for helping the community!
Great video and well explained points!
One of the big draws of the weekly packs for me is that I can get the starter cards for that set in them without buying the starter decks . I wonder how the changes to the starter decks will affect the weeklys.
I don't think it will.
Loved the video and thumbnail will awesome!
Very good and deep explanation of power level. I skipped pre ordering the box in set 3 (I ordered in set 1 and 2) bc legendaries are ABSOLUTE TRASH. There are few good ones, but in set 1 I was happy pulling ANY Legendary. Worst is Devastator IMO, but it is still playable in few decks. If set 4 will not fix that, I will just get rid of my cards, just keep 1-2 decks I like to play from time to time.
Worst legendary in set 1 obviously is Black One, not Devastator
@@thiesstettler1123 Oh, Yes! It was so bad that I forgot about him xD
Excellent video, Thorrk.
I agree for the most part.
Regarding mechanics / themes used in set 3 that ended up unused in competitive:
It is regrettable and a bad sign, but there are multiple sides to this.
I see 2 kinds of mechanics / themes:
- deeply interconnected ones
They have a lot of synergy within them, but they need a critical mass to work. Depending on the strength of cards they can evolve into a competitive archetype. The downside being, that this type doesn't work well with previous or new cards as they heavily rely on a given mechanic. For example Energy in Magic (with a few exception cards)
- loosely interconnected ones
These cards, while having a theme, don't need a critical mass of cards with the mechanic as they work by themselves in combination with old and new cards. They usually don't end up creating a new archetype, but the most powerful ones get added to competitive deck lists if strong enough. This often looks like the archetype has failed despite having some copies that see play
Good video! Keep on
The thumbnail really got me!
great video and takes. thanks
Totally agree, hopefully ffg watch this and stop being so conservative with power levels of cards after set 1 was so strong it went downhill for the next 2 sets
I just judged for the first time and I had fun. I'm looking forward to the future of the program.
Honestly, I think they need to start looking into an official online client, but only if they introduce a product code card (exactly like in Pokemon) to help encourage play both in person and digital. This would definitely give a more flexible option for people to play the game who don't have the time or opportunity to play in person as much or as often as they may want to. It, along with good competitive prizing, could really help to poach pro players from other games as it gives a flexible option for streaming gameplay. It would also give FFG a chance to reorganize the pack layout so showcases aren't sitting on top and potentially getting damaged. This is more of a pipedream and making sure the competitive prizing structure has real incentives to it would take precedence. However, if Karabast has proven anything its that there is at least some market/demand for this way to play the game.
On this I am a bit specktical, I am really afraid that an official Online client would almost comepletly canibalize physical play especially weekly play.
But for content creator like me it would surely be awesome lol.
I don´t think they can have license for a "videogame" based in star wars, that´s a complete diferent level than tcg
I think at some point will stop saying how the new set (at that moment) is weaker than the previous one to realize how they're meant to mix together and not be strong alone. At least that's how I see it, yes set 3 as weaker legendaries overall let's say but some cards fit really well into set2 decks. Curious to see how powerful set4 will be tho.
Great points. Agree. Also hope they design more "aggresively" but also ban aggresively. It is difficult to really get it consistently right in TCGs, so rather focus on being dynamic & interesting and then fixing / tweaking big mistakes. The worst you can do is stale, boring and irrelevant.
I really like SWU gameplay design. But I am also interested in overall TCG gameplay, strategy/tactics design space and echo system design.
The SWU community was a bit quick (understandably) to declare it the best outside the "Top 3" - whilst I think there is actually a lot they can still learn from Flesh & Blood and One Piece in particular. Both games also really stepped up after initial problems.
You can argue after 3+ sets they are better than SWU and it is on SWU to show with set 4 that they have learned and stepped up. It will be a big set for FFG!
Take just One Piece now on Set 9 in West, some things to look at:
(1) Box value is good. Set have lots of special treatment chase cards but also "meta cards". Still overall most meta decks are not very expensive.
(2) Reprints have also worked really well to (a) bring some meta card prices down, (b) revive leaders, (c) provide support to respond to meta.
(3) ST decks - work really well as not only starter decks, but a basis to build meta decks.
(4) One Piece whilst having S-Tier leaders has been pretty dynamic in terms of not letting them stay too long. Much closer to your wish for SWU with card design. But especially now I think you can say in addition:
(a) Viable Tier 1 and Tier 2 decks that top cut and win big events.
(b) Combo and "sand castle"(allowing you to play your game) decks that are viable.
(c) Meta decks tend to have cards from across sets and cards that rotate in-out according to meta. (Sure the SWU pool might just be too small to have so many relevant cards)
(d) Some (b) type decks have pretty self contained cards but also get cards everynow and then. Point with (c) and (d) being set design seem to try and accommodate new, old and forgotten.
This thumbnail hahahahahahaha incredible
Limited tournament play. Sealed or draft.
Power Creep is NOT better than Power Decreep. Magic is ruined because of how every single card is a bomb. Keep a semi-constant power level and innovate with mechanics instead of going the braindead creep route.
100% agree.
Power creep might be one way to sell product but it also ruins the game long term.
You don’t need power creep to sell product. You can do it by making the cards interesting in other ways. Not strictly speaking better, but able to work in decks to make the decks better. And you will always have legendary cards etc that are outliers.
In all fairness, Thorrk was not advocating explicitly for power creep, but rather that it's preferred to power decreep. Which is correct. You bring up Magic, but that's a bit of a strawman because Magic is to one extreme of it.
@ Thorrk said that power creep is preferable to power decreep and that power creep has two upsides. How can you hear that as anything but advocating for power creep?
Power creep is like inflation. A little bit is okay, a lot is very bad and the opposite is also very bad.
@@PontusWelin right before it he explicitly said that ideally all sets are perfectly balanced against each other.
The surge frame on those alt art cards is sooo ugly. Ready for FFG to move on from them. Like you suggested, I hope they just give us hyperspace borders.
Please FFG watch this !
As a competative player, ill hope FFG does alot more for -casual- players. While you're right that the major demographic for comp. play is older men, the overall playerbase, especially the casual players are more diverse. in my region is more or less the same 50 people competing and high reward tournaments with some locals filling up the ranks. weekly play is the only occasion casula players can meet others to play the game on more relaxed level. if you give incentives to "farm" these events too, i am pretty sure it has a very unhealthy effect on the game in general. If you don't have a private group to jam some games, there isn't a good chance you can play game more casual than in meta net-decked prized events.
Also, being to aggressive on cash prizes in the tournaments structure gives too much incentive for bad behaviour and cheating imo. At least for now i don't see a strong enough judge- and organized play structure to support this with the necessary rule and sanction enforcement. Some of our events still struggle to enforce fringe rules correctly/efficiently. I would wish fo a patient competative playerbase in this regards. Regarding Promochoices: Well, i don't mind chase cards as payoffs for a top 8/16/ etc. It's just that people complain about sets not having enough -value- that single prints into the market won't help the matter.
Still, a lot fair points were made. I also think the coloured borders are atrocious and should go asap. I am not a fan of power creep and i like the flat design approach of the SW:U design team. Still you are right in regards of the new archetypes struggling to keep up with the established meta archetypes. I am still baffeld we have no battlefield marine for republic or an snowtrooper lieutenant for seperatists. appreciate new approaches and its functional reprints in other tribes and mechenical copies for other archetypes that eneable competition in deck building decisions. Yet i feel the lacking archetypes are rather easy to fix going forward.
I Agree with you, I think there should be event that give good participation prize where people come to play the game casually something like a big "weekly play'.
You raise very good points about the downside of a more competitve environement, but I think overall the upside outweight the downsides, which can be mitigated (cheating, bad sportmationship...)
Making super competitive event and create a more casual friendly environement are not mutually exlusive.
Nobody is a fan of power creep but trust me when I say that the alternative to power creep is far worst.
I think the ugly framed OP cards are a cost thing. The frames are on the OP cards that are in boosters and do not have alternate art. So making them hyperspace would make them identical to the normal cards from boosters. Making them all alternate art would be the solution but it would cost FFG.
I 100% agree with the idea of having a chance of getting sone special cards. Interestingly both these issues might be solved in set 4 since we have the new decks instead of starter decks. I would hope they put the special cards from those decks in the OP boosters. And have them with alt art.
If the common cards were just the HS version of starter cards I think nobody would mind.
Far better prizes ! Sick of getting standard packs or displays or Event cards... gimme money for God's sake
Promo cards and product are ok for PQ (assuming the promos are better)we have now but I hope they will set up their game for bigger tournament.
Good video but all i heard was copy what Flesh and Blood is doing. Which would make things so much better for SWU
Well when an unknown company, with no major IP behind its back maange to be the most popular TCG after the big 3, you know they did a couple of things right.
@Thorrk_THT Amen 🙏
Dude I couldn’t agree with you more on those whack ass OP frames. Those cards are fugly as hell.
Reissue all the sets with actual decent art.
I could see both coordinate and exploit cards getting stronger with future sets. We already know more tokens are coming in the next set which should mean more viability for both of these card types. It feels like people are a little premature judging sets power level since these sets will most likely be around for at least another year minimum mixing with other future sets.
I'd take power decreep over power creep. Of course perfect balance isn't possible so ideally it'll shift a little up and down and balance out overall. Power creep and overcomplicated cards are two of the biggest reasons for me leaving MTG.