auto healing after battle? leveling up with story progression? 100% chance to run away? Damn, someone finally learned from chrono cross after so many years!
@@TheGamingDandy Chrono cross had star system instead of normal leveling system, gain 1 point by defeating boss with max 99lv, the problem is you can't gain max lv unless you start new game + multiple times.
Damn, I honestly loved cross code. One of my favorite indie games. I still remember playing it's demo on newgrounds and how it blew my mind, and honestly, without that, I doubt I would have found it in a timely manner.
Cross Code is an indie I loved, which isn't something that usually happens. I tend to not be a big fan of indie games. As for why, likely due to time it took to come out, being released in the wake of Hollow Knight and DDLC (and later Bug Fables), and probably it seeming like a standard throwback RPG at first glance.
I at least was highly disappointed in the story. It opened in a way that made it look like it was narrative focused, and that was also what I had picked up from outside sources, but really its story is quite sparse. What's there is fine, including a handful of great moments, but there's just not much of it (and not because the game in general is short, because it is not). The gameplay had a lot going for it, but I think I would have appreciated it more if it hadn't been such a surprise that the game is a puzzle game that occasionally lets you let loose with fast paced action combat. And it easily takes you up to the refund window to learn that as well.
Comment on the "cool drink problem": if you ever played old MH games (the first two) you'll see that cool drinks are not cheap nor accessible. The first games were more about exploration, gathering, crafting, etc. In every mission it was basically mandatory to collect the most things you can get because everything was rare. That's why in order for you to go to a mission in the desert or volcano, you have to prepare, and that would take a few missions. That made the access to those areas and that type of missions more challenging (and you have more limited inventory slots, so carrying the cool drinks was even more of a challenge). Nevertheless this mechanics got eased with time and with every iteration they introduce ways to improve the "quality of life" of those things so you can focus mainly in the hunt. So yeah what you say is true, but is a reminiscent of the old games.
Yeah, the actual problem is that these mechanics were based around different in-game economies in games that were harsher and more punishing (less money earned, less inventory space which required more management, more resources to manage and time or effort required to gain items needed, etc). And as games in these genres were streamlined, the mechanics remained the same instead of being properly reconsidered, rebalanced or replaced with a different mechanic that provided a similar effect. Yes, the original implementation could be tedious, but it was a feature that provided tension. Now, the tediousness of the feature is gone but so is the tension. Originally, when you are using a cool drink, or healing your characters with your healing items or mana points, you are constantly reminded of what you had to invest or what you are sacrificing to get those benefits. That's what a lot of modern games are missing: a consequence-based gameplay experience. And in my opinion, Chained Echoes also does not solve this problem because they are focused on solving issues that were created well past the point those mechanics had lost their edge or usefulness in the first place. It could have been because the pacing of the story is poor so I wasn't even drawn into the narrative enough to see the mechanics to their logical conclusion, but I didn't see what the fuss was about.
Yeah a lot of people don't remember like you had to prepare longer for encounters Now I can almost go into an encounter with no tools other than healing potions and I'll be okay. Except for them obviously much harder fights in high rank but it was not as crucial together as much as you had to in the earlier MH games
I think the main problem with some of the "inconveniences" that you mentioned (auto heal, random encounters, etc) is that games nowadays just aren't designed around them anymore. Resource management was a core part of the older JRPGs. They had set save points and you have no idea how long dungeons may be and managing your resources as you go through an area to make sure you have enough resources for a possible boss encounter was important. Do you want to keep pressing forward when you're desperately short on MP? Do you want to use that ether now when MP recovery items are scarce and not buyable in shops? Maybe you should cut your losses and go back to town so you don't wipe and lose all your progress. Games now are designed so you can save wherever you want, whenever you want, quick travel from anywhere to anywhere in seconds and continue right where you left off with healing points and quick travel points scattered everywhere in dungeons in an attempt to be "fair" and "accessible" but due to all of these "QoL" perks it renders most things useless and just busywork because you're always 5 seconds away from warping to town to just refill your mp.
I remember playing games like Children of Mana and Pokémon Mystery Dungeon: Explorers and failing spectacularly in the first dungeons exactly because I didn’t manage my resources properly, trying instead to “save them for later”, so basically doing a hard mode run without the experience nor skill required. I feel like Mystery Dungeon as a series has managed to get even more unforgiving, with the basic attack (the one that doesn’t really accelerate the fill of the hunger meter) dealing almost no damage, forcing the player to exclusively use moves. At least one is able to switch leader mid dungeon, so there are actually four hunger meters to manage.
If you want a game without many "QoL" things, try out Outward. It's one of my favorite games to come out in recent years. No fast travel, every place outside of towns feels genuinely dangerous, alchemy and magic being rare makes stuff like health potions hard to stock up on, especially in the early game.
One series that comes to mind that really captures the resource management well, atleast from what ive been told, is the persona series, since you very much dont know how long a dungeon will last, you can only bring so much in, and you have to balance which enemies you fight and which you dont or youll either use too much of those resources, or youll run out of time for that day. Completely agree with this though. I remember having to slog my way through areas in ff4 near the end game because everything was just so damn rough. It was a right proper endurance test that could break you quickly if you didnt have enough things, or you mismanaged them early on in that stretch of the journey. That said i will stand by the fact that i have yet to play a single jrpg that requires you to go back to an area just to grind out levels. If you take every fight head on, you will always be prepared for the boss.
Some RPGs of the past were more resource management games like Final Fantasy 1, Dragon Quest 1, and arguably Pokemon Gen 1. Managing your HP, healing items, etc was part of the "fun".
@@mhswoocer this is what I liked about old games. Grinding and eventually getting that one skill that makes things convenient is another, like auto potion or mana walk. Not that I don't disagree with the video but I also never really viewed these points as bad or an issue since most games that are good have ways to balance. Cool drink is something I never really liked tho. But again most of the time cool drink is temporary, like getting poison resist or cool resist armour in games like Valheim replace the potions eventually.
I've always liked how Final Fantasy 4 did it. You had two healers, Cecil and Rosa. Rosa was for healing during battle, but Cecil's magic wasn't nearly as high as Rosa's making him the "in-between" healing guy. The beauty of this design choice is Cecil gave the player some level of choice of how you healed in-between fights. Once you drain Cecil's small mana pool, you have a choice to feed him Ethers (which you can't buy) so he can heal more or start dipping into your potion reserves and save the Ethers for Rosa. It all depended on what you had on hand and what you felt tour priorities were. Of course, a smart player always saved the Ethers for the casters. But their hearts were in the right place in this design. It let the players experiment a bit on top of giving the players some rope to hang themselves with. And I never felt that was a bad thing. A game should be harder if you aren't properly thinking things through. But I know many disagree with this assertion.
Yup, that was the twist at the end! I tried really hard to be ambiguous with how many people were working on it to make it seem like it was a whole group of people when in reality it was just one guy!
@@Loner098ecause it really isn't just one guy. There's a composer, artists, sfx team, localisers and others. The indie sphere likes to designate a random game every few years as "developed by one person". He DID however do the majority of the work on conceptualising and programming the game, which should really be impressive enough already
@@Croyles And then you have someone like Jun'ya "ZUN" Ota at Team Shanghai Alice, who's both the founder AND the only one there that works on the Touhou Project games along with the music. And they still come out solid.
while the cool drink is a relic of a time in monster hunter when the game was less action and more sim, its still a valuble teaching tool. if you bring it to a hunt in a hot area you wont notice it but not bringing it is a huge punishment. it teaches you to always be prepared, even if it is something so inconspicious as a cool drink, proper preparation pays off
Not only that but it does add a bit of extra tension and strategy. There were usually areas in the map in the desert that did not require you to consume a cold drink. So bringing the monster to these areas to get the most damage in and using the drink only when needed was part of the strategy.
I just finished chained Echoes after putting in 107 hours in. Its an absolute MASTERPIECE!! Even including musical tracks that brought me to tears. I have been talking about it to all of my friends.
@@CidGuerreiro1234 Yeah, I don't know my "real" play time because of this. I think I ended with something like 56h on the clock, but I think I may have truly played something like 40h.
@@CidGuerreiro1234 Fair enough, i tend to do that a lot. Like playing until I need to cook food or something like that and I'll just leave it there, paused.
Chained Echoes made me love jrpgs again. It made me feel like a little kid playing Chrono Trigger and FFVI on my SNES and it's the first game in a very long time that made me want to 100% it.
@@mhswoocer I knew I couldnt be the only to think that the battle system looks just like Chrono Trigger to me. I have this game on my wishlist and have for some time, but as I am playing through Chrono for the first time now (I know, late to the game) I feel like this game will be a good logical step once I finish Chrono.
Turn based combat doesn't "kinda suck", it's just that many games do the bare minimum with it and don't give you many meaningful tactical options. Persona 5 (and SMT in general) is a good example of a game with very traditional turn based combat that is enhanced by making elements and statues much more potent than most games, thus making them actually significant tactical options (on top of the extra actions you get from the press turn system. The Trails of Cold Steel games add a bit of turn manipulation and spacing to the traditional turn based combat which makes tactical thinking more important in tougher boss fights and harder encounters.
I don´t believe Persona 5 to be the best representative of "Good" turn based combat. I might be biased as I truly dislike turnb-based combat, but Persona 5 was like a breeze to me. The system is just to learn the enemy weakness and do multiple baton passes and that´s it
@@rafaelrugama4194 SMT V then? The system is very simple at it's core yes, but even the easier Persona 5 rewards tactical decisions in battle more than most turn based JRPGs do
Pokemon have an incredible turn based system. Complex type charts and their effectiveness isn't linear. There's a lot more to the battle than just clicking a move and it doing damage. Stats are meaningful and status moves aren't useless. EVs, IVs, Nature, Items, base stats, priority of moves, STAB, etc. Not to mention battle formats - single, double or even triple battles all make for unique experiences.
I always love what Atlus tries with their turn based combat. Radiant Historia is another interesting game from them with turn swapping and the 3x3 enemy grid and moves that accommodate it, plus a combo system that increases damage the more hits you do on a players consecutive turn. We need more developers like them that are willing to bend the formula a bit to make turn based games more engaging.
My buddy who typically a I-only-play-OSRS-and-League, and typically plays gamepass games for like an hour, accidentally bought this game 😂 He's not mad though - he can steamdeck it and he's super happy with the game. Basically a happy accident :) the game is great!!
I was wondering why TH-cam recommend me this video. I am gonna guess it's because you commented on it since I don't follow this channel but do follow/watch yours. So thanks for commenting Stanimus, otherwise I'd most likely never knew this game was a worth it, let alone out.
I am so glad this game is really getting the recognition it deserves. It's firmly cemented into my favorites of all time. I also am obligated to point out that this was a solo developer, and it was his first game.
Thank you for pointing that out. This game is already so inspiring, but that fact is important. It shows how impactful a single strong vision can have on a project; especially if you’re trying to innovate an old genre.
I started playing this game a couple days ago and fell in love with it. Just in the opening hour the game introduces most of the main characters in a very smart and fun way. Which is just genius. It felt more like i was reading a really good book rather than playing a really good game. Which in my book, is a win
First 10/10 game in a while. The thing about this game is that its really well thought out and you can FEEL it as you're playing the game. It never feels grindy, it never makes you feel like you're wasting time, Everything from puzzles to combat is fun and has a purpose. Inventory management isnt tedious and is actually quite fun. The story is intriguing. Characters are memorable. It has no weak points in my opinion. This to me is the new gold standard for turn based games. Simply a masterpiece. All big developers should hire the guy who made this game as a consultant cuz honestly id rather play this than 95% of the AAA games out there. Its Brilliant.
Well... the crystal system might be a weak point. It's a bit more complicated than it has to be, and crafting tends to get tedious. However game is still a 10/10 as this is just a small part of the whole game and you could even completely skip it.
@@lankaras444i agree but you dont really have to play with it, i find it a bit of a shame tho, lvl X crystal are dumb hard to get To be fair, playing around 2/3 of your favorite characters and using crystals on them is really manageable and make them so powerfull, even when just lvl V crystal
I loved it and agree with everything you mentioned but I feel it does have objective flaws; the story was a bit of a mess, throwing in concepts that felt very "tacked on" and never really given their due closure nor were the story relevance of these concepts adequately explained (the kings or w/e). Some combat aspects were added way too late (so were many of the characters), specifically Enmity, the dev seemed to have almost forgot about this mechanic shortly after the tutorial, as it's never necessary again.
I think the cool drink "Problem" is great in monster hunter. It puts the hunter in a position where they have to think about what to bring before going on a quest. Be it the environment they have to deal with, the smaller monsters that may be a problem or different types of traps and tools. And later games where they do not have this feature I often find myself blinding taking health potions and usually nothing else to areas where before hand I always spent a good 3-4 minutes thinking hard about what to bring and plan out to make the hunt as easy as possible.
I don't remember if in MH Rise this mattered but in World it didn't. You could just go back to the tent and get it there or go pick up herbs that made those if they were around the map.
@@seifeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee Rise doesn't require hot or cool drinks, but prior to world the games did. And similarly, the environment sometimes had ingredients to craft the drinks in the field, but it was still a task you had to take on deliberately. Back then tho, you couldn't go to the tent to stock up in the field and ingredients didn't glow or sparkle in the field. Some games didn't even have a "Press X" prompt for items you could pick up, you just had to guess and check. I know a lot of people prefer those modern quality of life changes in world and rise, but the older games immersed me more and let me feel like i was really a hunter in the wild with only my gear and my wits.
In essence MH had some form of "simulation" aspect to their games where you weren't just boss rushing but hunting and having to keep in mind the environments you hunted in.
You know what game solved the turn based no-avoiding-attacks problem more elegantly than any other I've played? Mario and Luigi: Superstar Saga. By making the enemy attacks actually something you can dodge/counter on the enemy's turn, it not only solves the problem of being unable to react to getting hit, but turns it into a really fun minigame that rewards skill and timing. And it's visually and mechanically intuitive.
God damn, that brings back fun memories, learning the timings of the super moves and dodges etc, what a good game, imma have to dig it up if i can find it in the attic!
I've started playing Cristales recently, and I'm honestly really disappointed that it's not better quality than it is, because the combat was thiiiis close to combining Mario & Luigi style active combat with a timetravel mechanic not dissimilar in function to Chained Echoes' Overdrive. Unfortunately, minute long loading screens and _very_ flat dialogue have detracted heavily from the experience. (oh and on switch you can't turn off the vibration and MY GOD does it want to buzz anytime anything happens)
I guess that's why Pillars of Eternity feels so good to play. The leveling up is tied to the narrative too, and the best thing is that you have two sets of health: one per encounter and a bigger one per rest. This means that as long as you have total health, you'll recover the encounter health after every encounter.
Thanks for the vid, your passion goes through and you definitely pushed up the game in my backlog queue. My opinion on the subjects. There is no "perfect" formula to these kind of designs and mechanics, there is only what each person enjoys more and how they approach/design it. For example: -Auto healing after every battle makes your characters feel "invulnerable" and "tireless" and totally throws out resource management. This can also break the immersion for some players. -Leveling up at specific points can feel very on rails and predictable. Getting your face smashed from being underleveled/unprepared as well as breezing through enemies can be fun for some while also giving very solid feedback on your progress/strategies. Very complex stuff to analyze, but it boils down to preference. Overdrive sounds amazing though :)
Cool drink is there for immersion. When Rise took cool and hot drinks out, I lost the immersion. I don't feel like I am in a cold or hot place anymore.
To answer your first question: Immersion. If you're hurt, you have to heal. If you're hot you need to cool down. If you're hungry you need to eat. While its very convenient when none of this matters, when it does and its implement right it can immerse you in a simulation style gameplay. Also with healing it adds more strategy, forcing you to chose between being frugal vs miserly and causing a potential death.
@@alondite215 I disagree. The fact that my character in the game has to worry about thirst, hunger, dying of heat vrs being some semi immortal being that doesn't have bodily functions is a huge step in immersion.
@@alondite215 you gotta work on not sounding like a condescending cunt. nobody even said they think of those things mid-gameplay, they were talking about the game in general.
That kylian thumbnail, remembering his sacrifices in pursuit of his ideals. The developer invested so much time to this game, even the items has description, which is very fun to read and sometimes characters are incorporated to it. There's this game, Sea of Stars, which is also highly anticipated to jrpg fans having the same retro vibes and pixel art to chained echoes.
I like the concept of Kylian, I just really hated that I felt like the sacrifices he made didn’t make sense for the ideals he espoused. I kept wondering why he did certain things in the story instead of more practical approaches or why he was taking the path that he took. Also, the ideals he espoused made no sense to me in the context of what was more broadly happening, he wanted a certain political framework in a rather anachronistic way from how the rest of the political systems were set up in the story.
@@TheUltimegaMan he values justice, honor, and loyalty, and is willing to do whatever it takes to defend the innocent and uphold these ideals. In addition, Kylian also has a strong sense of personal responsibility, which is evident in his determination to continue fighting even when faced with adversity or difficult circumstances. Overall, Kylian is depicted as a brave and dedicated warrior who is driven by a strong sense of duty and purpose. Yea it's messed up what happened but he was Kylian until the end. Always in search for power. No matter the cost.
The cool drink "problem" can be used to rationalize removing literally every interactive element of any game. May as well just watch a movie instead. No matter how much you remove, something else will become the new "cool drink" weakest link to hyper fixate on.
Eh, though I do think that the perspective in the video goes too far, I think you do as well. When there's no real decision, the mechanic doesn't add to the game. There being a tax is one thing, but you can implement that tax more gracefully to make paying it annoying only because of the actual cost rather than the fiddling.
@@Latronibus but it adds some color to the game. Similarly to how in Breath of The Wild you need to put on a coat in order to go into the mountains because of cold, you could argue similarly that it doesn't add any challenge, like duh just put on the coat, but it adds variety and realism. I agree with @Myria you could really make the same argument for almost anything in most games, for example having spells of different elements when it's clear who's vulnerable to what spell, it's like a fake choice but it would be boring to only have one element type.
That's objectively untrue. Not even a foot resting in reality. The "cool drink" issue is an issue because the mechanic is stupid, not impactful, and adds nothing to gameplay. You can still have interactive gameplay and make it meaningful, unless your suggesting that all interactive gameplay is completely pointless and badly implemented? You're trying to connect two dots while missing the 5 million dots in between them. Many interactive mechanics are implemented well and many simply aren't. The issue is the "cool drink" is the laziest design they could have chosen for said mechanic. You know there are alternative ways to implement a similar mechanic as "cool drinks" to make it more impactful and actually feel good? It's just that the MH fail over and over to try to improve their formulas outside a few gimmicks each iteration. This is clearly a game design issue.
@@mindaugasjurevicius5776 Putting on a coat in Breath of the wild is not really comparable to having to reuse a potion over and over again to be in a hot location in game. For them to be comparable, you would just go into hot areas on MH wearing something that keeps you cooled down... which is a better implementation than "cool drinks* Using elemental magic to hit elemental weakness is also not comparable by a much larger margin. You're taking something that adds at least SOME strategy to a game with something that requires none. There are soooo many ways to put elemental weakness into a JRPG and make you find out yourself what the weaknesses are. While there are ways to avoid having to use cool drinks in MH, it's almost always at the cost of much better skills and stats, which it simply shouldn't be that large of a tradeoff.
@@sarkaztik3228 I think it's comparable, because the main issue with the potion was (unless I misunderstood) that it loses it's meaning when there's infinite amount of them and there is no challenge to get them, the coat in BOTW can be described in the exact same way, both items have the same purpose and you just always have both of them, the only difference is that potions are more annoying because you need to press some buttons every few minutes to use it. I agree that my elements example is a bit more far fetched but it's still comparable enough: Potion in MH: you need to find out that you need to use it in order to survive in that area, and after that you use it all the time and it's boring. Elements in JRPGs: you need to find out what element you need to use against a certain enemy and you'll use it against that enemy all the time, you won't touch other element spells.
I think a lot of the changes you've mentioned are more of a lateral move than an upward move. Streamlining party management and handling combat encounters in this way are both good things, but that doesn't necessarily make them better than the old-school way that jrpg's did them. Both are different approaches that provide a specific experience. I personally do enjoy having to keep up my party's health, as well as the tension of wondering whether the next combat encounter will be the one that finally whittles me down enough to send me back to save. From what I'm seeing here, I'd say this game is a great option either for people who can't get into jrpg's because of all the maintenance stuff, or for veterans experiencing jrpg burnout. As a member of the latter group, I'm really grateful that you covered this game because I had never heard of it before and now I get to sink my teeth into a new jrpg.
As a working class, adult, parent few things make me sadder than the knowledge that I simply do not have the time to appreciate things like this anymore, even knowing that I'd love them.
this ia probably one of the best natural and indirect marketing a game could get, gets us interested and it doesn’t feel like an ad which would put a lot of people off. actually interested, well done
Good for you, from what I hear this game "fixes" many things I never considered a problem, offers an innovative battle system that is great, but I personally don't consider it to be that special because, once again is made to solve a problem I never considered a problem. I can see how great the game probably is to casual players though. Many of these details were problems for them that stopped them from enjoying JRPGs, but I cannot help but think that the OP is overselling the game. The other game he cited was one that I felt deserves more praise.
@@bloody4558 With you on this. I really dislike the way OP put down older game features as issues that needed to be solved. I didn't realize how much I missed Cool/Hot Drinks in older MH titles until I went on every hunt in Rise and just... didn't need to use them. A lot of the preparation I slowed down to make in old titles just didn't happen in Rise. I no longer feel the need to create item sets based on which map I'm going into or which monster I'm fighting. I take healing items and items that boost my damage, and that's it. This isn't the only thing removed from the series in the latest MH game, and all of the old features and mechanics being removed kinda makes the game feel empty. I don't feel like a hunter going on a hunt. Just a guy with a hammer or a stick dunking on monsters for no reason whatsoever. There's just no immersion anymore. I really enjoy the new combat and how easy it is to just pick up and put down the game, but it's not the only reason why I fell in love with the franchise. Chained Echoes does look amazing, and I'd love to give it a try, but it was unnecessary for OP to put down these classic game features as "problems" that needed to be solved in order to puff up the "modern" take on JRPGs. It's just an innovation, not a solution. That said, I don't think CE is wrong for making these types of changes, especially for players who have work and other responsibilities, but the issue lies in the oversaturated market for games and the compulsory feeling of having to play every game ever due to the FOMO or whatever you want to call it. Grinding in video games was fine before, and was never seen as an issue until people grew up. It's not an issue now if all you do is play games, or don't mind playing a slow grind over longer periods of time, but people just want to go through every new title that comes out. I'm a firm believer that you can enjoy both the classic and modern RPG without either necessarily being better than the other. That's why I have over 200GB's worth of emulators and games for them. I haven't touched most of them, but they're so enjoyable when I find the time. Crosscode was also pretty fun from what I remember, but it just didn't click with me. There's so much good artwork for the game, but you can't appreciate it because you're just going from one area to the next. There's no exploration, there's no small secrets you find out after double and triple checking the area. There's no loitering about, just making sure you got everything you possibly can. You just click on the next objective. There's almost no immersion at all, and if you don't feel immersed in the world, all those hard-hitting, "deep" moments just don't feel... deserved. There's no satisfaction gained from beating a level when you feel rushed through them--when games are streamlined (not to say this one is, I wouldn't know since I haven't played it).
@@wetnoodlex Cross code absolutely has their share of secrets in each area. But it's divided by the layers you can explore that can lead to new sections. Often times you are required to find a specific route that isn't always obvious, but it takes you to that one section you just can't reach. Sometimes the route starts off not in the same area you are exploring, but in a parallel one, requiring you to discover a path that leads you through upper levels into the next zone. I love how Cross Code dealt with parkour, even if it can be confusing where it wants me to go.
Literally the only turn-based RPG that I love. The part where the game doesn't force me to get ambushed is my favorite. Like, I want to explore the map and find treasures and secrets not to fight all the time. It's so annoying. Everything about this game makes me enjoy it. I wish we have 100 games like this.
This Game is an absolute love letter for me and so underrated i think. Since my childhood games like golden sun, final fantasy, pokemon, tales of phantasia there was never a jrpg that catched me that much like chained echoes. I rushed throught this game crazy and finished it after 2 weeks and 70h with all bonus things and i loved it. The story was crazy deep, the sound is amazing, all the systems are perfect created (inclouding the mechs, cause im normally not a fan of mech powers) and much moore. If u search for something nostalgic, here u go
I am so glad I found this video. I bought the game not long after and it is definitely one of the best games I've ever played. I never expected the story to be written so phenomenally. Hit me in the feels by the end of it. I highly recommend this game to everyone who either loves JRPGs, pixel art-style, or good written stories. Please support them!
11:07 Crosscode ironically is in my top 5 most enjoyable experiences in RPG's. The story, characters, puzzles, and combat are just amazing. Really wish it picked up more traction and it's a shame it didn't.
In MH the point of the game really at it's core is preparation. From the type of weapons you use to your armor and food buffs and now the minions and their items and attacks everything is about how you prepare for the fight. If you know a monsters weakness you can plan and prepare and down them easily, if you rush in you might get by with weapon skill alone but it might be a slog to get through and worst case you might not down it at all. Cool Drink is just one more thing you bring in preparation. Its a micro management game at it's core which is why there are so many systems to check in on, set up, send out and manage between hunts. Same can be said for healing after a battle, its up to you to manage the health of your team just like it is to manage their skills, weapons and armor. People do enjoy idle games for a reason so the appeal for a system to do the management for you is what some people are after but a lot of JRPG type games thrive off that management which in Chained Echos comes in that Overdrive bar. It's the same system just with different steps. Rather than needing to drink a cool drink to stop yourself from taking damage you now need to swap a character to lower the bar with their skill or attack. Hunters need to stop and think if they are going to take the extra damage from the heat in the zone just to dish out extra damage to a stunned or low HP monster OR do they run away to take a drink and heal up so they can secure that kill even if it extends the fight. Don't get my wrong this is a good thing and switching up the Cool Drink mechanic will breath new life into games but you can't simply dismiss one management system as flawed and praise the same idea just in a different coat of paint. Its the exact same thing.
I bought this game somewhere in the first half of this year and I postponed it until last week and just finished it yesterday. I love this game. As you said there are many quality of life improvements that makes this game comfortable to play. Combat is great, story is great, OST is great and exploration is also great
The "healing after battle" is such a nice mechanic i kinda want to play this game now. Xenoblade 1,2 and 3 have the same feature too, which drew me into the game...
I dont know I like healing after battles and stuff, but the economy has to be substantial I like how skies of arcadia handled it. Where spells costed MP and if you ran out of MP you cant use spells. So you would have to conserve your items stratgically until you were able to get your next stop.
I stumbled upon your video while looking for Crosscode musics. Having played Chained Echoes at its release after Crosscode devs advertised it, I was curious to see what you had to say. This video is by far one of the best argumentation I’ve ever seen in terms of structure. It’s just so good to see someone putting so much effort into making a point and ending up doing so well. I hope you’ll keep making such good content, as for me I’ll definitely subscribe.
The cool drink in Monster Hunter is not a problem, you have limited space in your inventory and this makes planning before the quests to a more immersive experience, even more because is fairly easy to make Cool Drinks, it's a way to streamline what a Hunter will Hunt, it's the same way you bring nullberries if you gonna fight a monster with elemental blights, or like you bring attack/defense potion for extra hard fights, it's a way to make players plan beforehand and feel like they are a hunter going out to hunt, and you even forgot to say that cool drinks gives a buff that negates passive damage from Extreme Heat caused by the aura of certain Elder Dragons, like Lunastra or Teostra. Besides this little misconception of your video, Chained Echoes is really a fun game, I played it when was first released through gamepass and had a blast with it.
Wishlists will pick this up for sure, huge ups for spotlighting these games i literally redownloaded Chrono Trigger an hour ago to scratch that turn based itch. I dont want to finish Octo 2
If I’m being totally honest, the reason I like cool drinks as a premise in Mh is because I think they’re the first instance of preparation for hunts, and they’re an easy to digest way to force someone to start examining the hunts they go on, and then that leads into the more nuanced decisions and prep. Is it the best execution of this? No, honestly I’m not even sure its a great one, but I think in the context of monster hunter it works well. It’s a lesson. But yeah it definitely gets annoying
I saw my boy Kylian on the thumbnail and I was like “oh hey I’m the exception” lol. I really like this game. It’s never made me get stuck on one spot for too long, and whenever I get bored it feels like it adds something new. I can definitely see that it’s fixing a lot of problems with older games.
Definitely my indie GOTY for 2022. Put in roughly 70 hours and did everything, got all characters and ultimate weapons, fought all unique monsters, etc. This is an exceptional game and needs to be experienced by all fans of the golden era JRPGS. Highly recommend!!
Normally when I lose a battle in an turn based rpg, my take-away isn't that I played the fight poorly, it's that I didn't grind enough before the fight. This game looks beautiful.
So, maybe this is just the masochist in me, but I actually can't quite agree with some of this stuff, though there is some I definitely agree on. Here's my two cents! (And on another note, you legit convinced me to get Chained Echoes! I'mma have to wait for a deal due to current issues, but either way, I'm excited! Thanks for bringing light onto this game!) Primarily, when it comes to the Cool Drink Problem? Don't get me wrong, I agree fully with that idea for the most part. In Monster Hunter World, it was actually, to phrase it bluntly, "tits on a bull". In a game where you can go back at any time to base and just get more? All just to solve it on the ONE map where it matters with the Volcano? It's lame. But in MHGenUlt and prior, you had a much more limited inventory. In games previously, you had to stuff your inventory with all the stuff: Health potions, honey, cook books, etc. to maximize your hunt... And sometimes, when you knew you were going to a place with cold or hot climates, you had to bring those. And not one map or two, sometimes multiple environments had a few areas that caused the Hot/Cool drinks to be necessary. So combine a limited inventory with using one of those slots you could use instead for barrel bombs, flash bombs, and charms for that? It was a legit problem and NEEDED you to be aware of where you were going. But in later games, this... Just wasn't necessary anymore, and to keep it in when the game already holds your hand as much as it does, just doesn't match the games gameplay anymore. As for when it comes to RPGs, the potions being inexpensive tends to be an Economy problem in the game. In games where potions are more expensive, the idea is that the game is trying to get you to be more defensive and to punish you if you callously go around. I'll be honest, I used to hate the same thing in RPGs, but as I've grown up, I've come to appreciate things like that... When they're a part of the experience the game tries to portray. If a game wants to be more punishing, fine, that's actually good if it's going for that. High prices on any recovery things, low gold gain, healing spells are more costly or rarer, etc. Having a risk of LOSING is just as necessary to an experience, because it causes you to play more cautiously (in some cases) and consider options you might not usually. Personally, I actually like it when I'm not usually recovered, or when things get dicey, because it feels like there's some new angle I should consider, and when an RPG -plays- to that, it's really rewarding. But if I'm just recovered most of the time, with no items, it makes me wonder how much danger I'm REALLY in. It's why I love in Xenoblade Chronicles, seeing -enormous- monsters that are WAY too strong for me just wandering. It's scary and reminds me this world is not BUILT for me, and that powerful beings can live anywhere they please. (But your health auto-recovers in this game, and that works PERFECT for it's type of gameplay!) That said, by and large, most RPGs -did- make potions cheap and recovery options plentiful, and it feels like "okay, so if it's so small a cost for these kind of things, why have them in the first place?", which I fully agree with, that just felt unnecessary. Sure, it might make it worse in longer dungeons and stuff where maybe you probably shouldn't even be, and GASP! You might actually have to worry that you COULD lose! Most of the time in RPGs, just wandering to a place, I'd be the level I need without having to grind much, unless there was something I really wanted. But that didn't "add" or "change" my experience any, it just made me need to walk some extra steps, grab excessive amounts of stuff, and then waddle away. So I'm glad that this RPG you talked about actually sort of streamlines it's experience by letting you just focus purely on how you handle encounters, without making "trips to town" a constant or jazz like that. It looks like it keeps you focused on the core gameplay loop itself, which is good, and seems like the game had a dev who knew WHAT kind of experience they wanted to deliver, and trimmed the fat off of it to give you an experience that fits what it wanted to be. Big respect to the dev here. TL;DR - 1. Cool drinks for MH were more for previous entries, they would be honestly useless to the gameplay experience now. 2. I feel like a lot of RPGs suffered from an economy problem which mitigated a lot of difficulty or tension it was trying to draw out, and that ultimately the video is right. 3. I feel like a lot of RPGs also need to remember where "difficulty" comes from and play to the strengths of that, and that it leads to a lot of these small issues. 4. The game he talked about sounded really fun, and like it KNEW what kind of gameplay experience it wanted, and played to those strengths.
I subbed to your channel because you did a video about Chained Echoes. The fact that you loved Cross Code shows your impeccable taste in games. Both of those games are some of my favorites, and now when I get bored, I'm going to go through your backlog to find my next game to play.
The SaGa series has been doing the HP thing for ages. You always start every battle with full HP, but there's a secondary stat, LP, that carries over between fights. You typically only take LP damage if your HP hits 0, and LP can't be restored in the field.
Damage that carries over after battle and enemies preventing you from escaping help bring a sense of realism to the game. Also unless you're terrible at JRPGS it's a non issue at "hour 50" because your resources should be near limitless.
Honestly this, not to mention how easy it is nowadays to heal the party such as auto heal from P5 or even shortcuts to healing skills/items to heal up the party.
That latter bit is the point he's making. If HP management between battles is going to be trivial, why bother making players go through the motions? Either make HP management between battles interesting (or at least hard), or do away with it outside of combat. And HP are already an abstraction: there are plenty of ways to increase realism while auto-regenerating HP between battles. An injury system, for instance.
You can block and avoid attacks in turn based rpgs a lot, there is the blind/slow/invisible/accuracy up/accuracy down/formations/shields/reflects/charms and many more, even in FFX you could get avoid & counter abilities on your equipment, also blind huge enemies to dont get oneshot by them. Even in classic rpg games Armor and equipment didn't give you defence it just did give you a higher chance of not being hit and it was less attractive but it worked really fine.
Thanks to this I gave it a shot. Just finished it. The game is fantastic! Give or take some parts of the very end, it's still more than enough that I'd love to see a follow up. One of the best games I've played in years!
Yeah chained echoes was my game of the year last year. I can’t recommend it enough. I didn’t know this was gonna be a chained echoes video going in, but I’m glad it was. The game needs more exposure.
Hilarious that whenever I see one of those "best game no one has played" videos it's a game that I already have and love Great video man, keep spreading the word. This game deserves a lot more love
I dunno sounds kinda easy to me. Nothing wrong with the uncertainty of exploration and wandering off to an area where you have no place being and getting one shot
Honestly chained echoes is easily the most brilliantly designed turned based rpg I've ever played and you've perfectly encapsulated why. This is easily one of my favorite games ever and with the switch version coming later this year I'm hoping it finds the massive success it deserves. (Btw if you don't mind I'm going to be stealing the phrase "the cold drink problem". It's too great not to use.)
I am tempted to just download it on switch. I preordered the collectors edition on first press games but god knows how long it will take to arrive. I hear some of their games are not shipped for literally a year or even 2. I cant wait that long lol
This game and Cross Code have been two of the games ive invested myself in most for a long time. Between these and the soon-to-be released Sea of Stars, it seems like the turn based rpg genre of old has really recieved a huge breath of fresh air in the past couple of years.
This video strikes at the core of why this game is so amazing! Excellent pacing, the best battle system of all time and even a enjoyable story and world. Best JRPGS of recent decades.
Chained Echos is at the top of my wishlist. After that is another game I feel like might be a sleeper later this year is Sea of Stars. I think it’s gonna be a great game and hopefully it gets it’s shine!
just wanted to say that this is the video that prompted me to try this game out! i've been loving it from the first few minutes to the 30-hour mark i'm at currently. thanks for sharing!
What? I was always over stocked on ho and MP pots. Literally what managing was there? Unless your purposefully handicapping yourself you will always have more than enough potions yes this includes old RPG games
Except 99% of the time, it's not an issue. Tons of people finish such games with hundreds of unused health and mana potions. Slogging through easy encounters that only exist to scratch you and tire you is not novel; for most people it's a boring waste of time. Some games get resource management right; it can create tough and interesting decisions. But 99% of the time it doesn't.
After having watched this vid, getting inspired to play this game, having completed this game, I give it 8.5/10 + can recommend. The setting/story overall is great and surprised me a couple of times, characters are...a bit flat and sometimes a tad dum-dums, but not aggrovatingly so, they're believably human, gameplay is great and nice -- Overdrive mechanic is fun and interesting to juggle (and even has "difficulty" setting in accessibilty menu, which is a big plus for both end of spectrum). Audio-visuals are fantastic! The fact that all of this was made by one person never stops to amaze me.
Oh wow, this really sounds great. I'm someone who tends to enjoy RPGS . . . for about the first three hours, and then I get bored of the repetitive combat, which dis-incentivizes me from exploring (but is often necessary to embrace to avoid being underleveled and/or without the means of buying better equipment). But I like the exploration and learning about the games' respective worlds. And, well, frankly most RPGS feel almost exactly the same. So many old ideas, done again and again with little to no innovation. But this game not having grinding, across-the-board leveling, guaranteed escape, and static encounters just sounds amazing. It seems like you could actually EXPLORE the world you find yourself in.
I totally understand that! It feels like there are so many problems in the genre that just haven't been addressed for decades, but this game feels like such a breath of fresh air!
For what it's worth, The Legend of Heroes: Trails in the Sky series also solves a lot of these issues in its own way. It has a logarithmic exp curve, so if you're under leveled you can expect to gain a level every encounter or two, while if you're overleveled your exp gain slows down significantly enough that you won't be after a plot point or two. Like Chained Echos, Trails in the Sky has a 100% run rate, so if you just don't wanna fight you can decide not to (obviously there are story encounters that you can't run from). All this ensures that the game's combat doesn't get in the way of the story and worldbuilding, which is some of the best I've seen in any medium period. The games are a little long (3 games at about 60-80 hours each), but they truly are excellent games that I cannot recommend highly enough. This isn't to take away from Chained Echos of course, Imma wishlist that game now after a review like that, but I just wanted to say there are other games that solve at least some of the problems described in this video.
Great video! I'm currently playing through this game, and all the things you mentioned here are exactly why I'm enjoying the game so much. Also, one quick suggestion: can you keep your game clips to sections relatively early in the game? Just to avoid mild spoilers about later characters or areas.
Edit: I skimmed through the video and I definitely did show a few late game areas, that's totally my bad. ̶ ̶W̶h̶i̶l̶e̶ ̶I̶ ̶d̶i̶d̶ ̶t̶r̶y̶ ̶t̶o̶,̶ ̶T̶h̶e̶r̶e̶'̶s̶ ̶a̶ ̶v̶e̶r̶y̶ ̶h̶i̶g̶h̶ ̶c̶h̶a̶n̶c̶e̶ ̶I̶ ̶m̶e̶s̶s̶e̶d̶ ̶u̶p̶ ̶o̶n̶c̶e̶ ̶o̶r̶ ̶t̶w̶i̶c̶e̶ ̶s̶i̶n̶c̶e̶ ̶I̶ ̶d̶i̶d̶ ̶u̶s̶e̶ ̶o̶v̶e̶r̶ ̶a̶ ̶h̶u̶n̶d̶r̶e̶d̶ ̶c̶l̶i̶p̶s̶ ̶l̶o̶l̶.̶ ̶I̶f̶ ̶I̶ ̶d̶i̶d̶ ̶a̶c̶c̶i̶d̶e̶n̶t̶a̶l̶l̶y̶ ̶s̶p̶o̶i̶l̶ ̶s̶o̶m̶e̶t̶h̶i̶n̶g̶ ̶l̶a̶t̶e̶ ̶g̶a̶m̶e̶ ̶I̶'̶m̶ ̶s̶o̶r̶r̶y̶,̶ I'll do my best to avoid it in the future!
I kickstarted this game a couple years ago. So glad it lived up to the hype upon release. It's a great feeling being a small part to help such a work of art come to fruition.
I'm actually playing through this game right now and its been nothing short of spectacular so far. I feel the main influences are Chrono Trigger, FFVI, Xenogears, and Suikoden but without emulating any of those experiences too much. Chained Echoes nods to the past while doing its own thing very well. This is what I want from modern 2D RPGs. I feel like this game and CrossCode are the pillars of indie RPGs. CrossCode nailed the action combat and puzzles while Chained Echoes nailed the turn based style. Two of my favorite RPGs of the last few years and neither were big budget AAA games. I think what gives these games an edge for me is they are not held back by corporate restrictions. They can use their imagination to the fullest extent and just make the game they want without some suit taking all the good stuff out to "have a more broad appeal for maximum profit". Imo, this game puts the AAA nostalgia RPGs like Octopath and Bravely Default to shame. I think SE specifically could learn a thing or two from games like this.
I was worried this would be hyperbole - but you nailed describing what I look for in a RPG combat system. Hot take but I dislike Persona 5’s combat for a lot of the reasons you listed. Especially compared to games like SMTV and how that does it.
I can't agree with your reasoning on some of the issues with JRPGs. Healing after combat is an important part of gameplay. You need to choose what resources you use to heal, which resources you want to save for battle, that stuff is important for the gameplay experience. And yeah, JRPGs have a problem with level grinding, but being able to grind for levels is an important balance mechanic. It lets people who are struggling with a section go to an earlier section of the game and level up, so that they can use an over leveled party to crush the obstacle. Taking away the ability to outclass the enemies like that is ripping part of the soul out of RPGs. And you shouldn't be able to escape from enemy encounters easily. It removes all the risk from exploration. If you can only save at specific points, then it makes sense because you don't want players to find a new area, die immediately, and lose several hours of progress. If you can save at will, then escaping at will removes all sense of danger from exploration. It turns scary, dangerous monster filled caves from threats into locked chests that you need to come back for later. If you want a game that solves the grinding problem better, look at something like Earthbound. If you out level the enemies in the area, you automatically defeat the enemies without the encounter. You still get the rewards though. It means you only need to think tactically in the fights that are actually a challenge, instead of needing to mash the attack button to kill off basic enemies. I'm glad you enjoyed the game, but you've managed to convince me never to try it
Sometimes quality of life changes are nice, but at the same time, this is optimising the fun out of games. As someone who started with Monster Hunter Freedom 2 and played up until Sunbreak, I saw it happen.
Bought this game today after eyeing it for months. I am watching videos like this to get a feel for it while it downloads. I grew up in the golden jrpg age and this game looks awesome.
Okay, I'm buying it. You convinced me, especially since I had no idea it had these QoL changes. I want to support developers who take initiave like this, too.
Yeah eventually I decided that I really wanted to cover the QOL part of the game since I know that's something that pushes a lot of people away from games like this.
I really love you channel Found your channel through crosscode then got to know unsighted and i absolutely love 2d jrpgs which have tons to do and explore They get really hard to find these days Most of them are just too similar or lack the polish/feel and more importantly amount of content Really glad to have been following you
These concepts that are complained about in this video I never seen as a hindrance. Managing your parties health makes me feel like I’m managing and actual band of traveling heroes. Everyone isn’t always going to be healthy. I would really love a game with persistent injuries and hunger and thirst that affect your party. It just adds a level of difficulty and management.
If you want a game like Kenshi or Outward with "hardcore" sim mechanics and lims getting dismembered, thats great, but its not "go into your inventory and use a potion to continue" levels of shallow. Pokemon games are pretty whack when you are halfway down a route and then "back I go to the pokecentre and pokemart" for ten minutes
@@Meatiecheeksboy Sorry but this is only ever seen as a problem to casuals. Not a single one of the classic JRPG fans ever saw that as a problem. Because it literally isn't. You think you do because you're too dominated by the Idea that everything should be concise and fast. which is the natural effect our modern society has on people. It makes everyone treat efficiency as a deity, and expect everything to be fast, short and concise. This is done on purpose to create the "customer" mindset. Normal individuals learn to enjoy the fast and simple, so that they can finish using products soon and have to buy new ones. This whole phenomenom has been studied since decades past. Even during the 90's scientists and doctors alerted people about this, but after the mid-2000's it simply vanished. No one talks about this anymore, and society only got worse and worse in this aspect. People have now convinced themselves that they cannot manage to play anything that lasts more than 30 hours, saying that it's because they got older. Which is not the reason. The reason is that society has deteriorated the minds of the majority of people to the point that they can't mantain their attention on anything for long. That's what causes the sensation people have that long games, "are overstaying their welcome". It's not the game that is getting boring for lasting too long, it's you who no longer have patience because you cannot mantain your attention on stories that lasts longer than normal anymore. That translates into mental fatigue which you interpret as you being bored.
@@bloody4558 While your response is undeniably pointing at a very true and real phenominon in the modern culture, there are plenty of long games and games that I put plenty of time into. My 50 hours into Red Dead 2 feels like a breeze compared to my 20 hours in the first two islands of Temtem for example. Completely different again to talk about my 100 hours in Hunt Showdown, or 400 hours in Total War and Rocket League. But if you asked me to pick which experienced feels like it drags, it can be slow, I'd say Temtem, because if you get too low and have no potions, you have to spend literally 4 or 5 minutes backtracking to a healing centre. My quality time in which I get to relax and play games is limited, and for a game to waste it is upsetting and insulting. Breath of the Wild's autosaving feature where any death or game over would teleport you to immediately before the fight's beginning was one of my favourite features, compared to getting a game over on Final Fantasy 9 and losing 3 hours of progress because you forgot to save. Is forgetting to save a game mechanic? Is having to compulsively save over and over to try and avoid it "part of the fun"?
@@Meatiecheeksboy You thing you have a good point with your FFIX example but you don't. In old FF games you have save points. Which makes it extremely hard to forget to save. More importantly, the games had evolved to always add a save point before difficult fights. So if you lose, you go back right before the boss fight. Which is essentially the same thing. Auto saves come with their own problems too, such as saving states in situations in don't ever want it to save. Which is why manual save is still a thing. There are also games in which you can literally retry the fight on game over, making it unnecessary to save until you need to stop playing the game. all of which nullifies your specific argument
@@bloody4558 bruv, you can't tell me that in MS Saga a New Dawn, I lost 3 hours of progress about 45 hours into the game, and then was so upset at the idea of replaying that same 3 hours that I just gave up and never finished it. "Just save lol" is not the correct response to QoL changes being asked for/appreciated
This game is amazing and deserves more attention so that hopefully the dev makes a sequel. It's just so good. Imagine a sequel with expanded upon mechanics.
I don't really agree with the "cool drink" problem...or really any of these "problems" Chained Echos "fixed". They're mechanics of the game and come with thier own "problems" and reasons for them, be they difficulty reasons or otherwise. while auto-healing from your stockpile is great and streamlines things, sometimes a player may NOT want to heal..say because the game has a character/skill/mechanic that benefits from lower HP...or perhaps simply to save them for later. Auto-healing takes away player decision..and some people don't care for that in thier ROLE-playing game. don't get me wrong, not saying it's bad..it has its place much like the mechanics it's "fixing"...I am saying that these "problems" are not problems...they as part of thier games as CE's approach to them is; and when you've played games as long as I have, there is one truth when it comes to video games: There is something for everyone..so enjoy what you like and don't play what you hate.
I don't comment very often, but this video was very well done. I appreciate the honest look at JRPGs and the honest review for Chained Echoes. I'm going to buy it, because it sounds like a delight. Subscribed for sure. :]
I just beat this game a week ago. On top of all the great things you just mentioned, Chained Echoes also doesn't suffer from bad writing like in many jrpgs I've played recently. You mentioned octopath traveler as an example, but I found several of the stories treated the player like they were 6 in the quality and nuance of the writing. I've yet to play a tales game with imo good writing and characters. The latest tales game actually had me skipping much of the dialogue and nothing of importance felt lost. Monster Hunter's writing is laughably irrelevant (but it's still an amazing game). The characters in chained echoes are well written. It's no game of thrones or god of War, but the writing and duality did not make me want to cringe and skip the dialogue like most jrpgs these days. Shoutout to Crosscode, my favorite indie rpg hands down. If you haven't played that, go do that then play chained echoes!
@@Purpletrident I grew up on jrpgs. Chrono Trigger, Secret of Mana, and Final Fantasy 4,5,6 for example, did not have bad dialogue and characters. (Maybe FFV did, I haven't replayed that in a very long time). And my complaints were mainly focused on specifically the writing. As an example, I still liked the last Tales game for its combat. Just the dialogue sucked imo. Expand that to a bunch of other recent titles in particular.
i played it on release. and it was amazing , has one of my favorite sountracks. Eddie Marianukroh will go down in history as one of the greats. I an eagerly looking forward to what this person composes next. Chained Echoes for me was as good as it was because of this composer. I didnt care for the story, but every time Fractured Echoes played. Every damn time, the combat, the music. Was just flawless. Then there's Those who resist Fate... its too beautiful.
This was such a fantastic breakdown!! I have been telling anyone i know that games about Chained Echoes, now instead of struggking to explain what it is that i love about it so much, I am just going to share this video! Well done!
I had a similar name for the "Cool Drink Problem," I called it the Protect problem. In Final Fantasy XIV, you used to have to cast the spell Protect which would apply a damage reduction to your entire party. When someone died, the buff wore off so you had to recast it on them when they were resurrected mid-combat, it was essentially one of the first things you had to do when ressing someone along with healing them or else they'd just die again, that's how required Protect was. Thing is, while only one Job learned Protect normally, the other healers would be able to use it through the cross-class skill system, meaning you should always, always have Protect, and any healer that didn't was forced to go level a White Mage some to go get it. It was really early on but still. The producer of the dev team, Naoki Yoshida (or Yoshi-P) was once asked if they could just remove Protect and improve everyone's defenses or lower enemy attack to make up for it. His reply was that while they could do that, it "just didn't feel like Final Fantasy without it." They must have realized how stupid this was because they removed it in the next expansion and nobody really misses it.
Ngl I'm halfway into the video and the game seems like it's not for me. Most of the things you list as negatives that the game fixes, are things I usually seek for in games. It's funny, but legit I think we just like and value different things in games. Like I love grinding for hours in games. I like managing different aspects in games like resources. I love turn-based combat, because it's less stressful for me due to having all the time I need to think. I find random encounters fun. Edit: Also you make it seem like a lot of stuff this game does is revolutionary, when they've already been done before by plenty of other games. And I find it a little amusing. Lol.
auto healing after battle? leveling up with story progression? 100% chance to run away? Damn, someone finally learned from chrono cross after so many years!
Always wondered why I loved Chrono cross so much lol
Actually other games have had that before and after. There are fundamental problems with that kind of system (namely the star system)
@@trollingisasport what do you mean the start system?
@@TheGamingDandy Chrono cross had star system instead of normal leveling system, gain 1 point by defeating boss with max 99lv, the problem is you can't gain max lv unless you start new game + multiple times.
@@octaflare860 why is that a problem?
Cross Code blew my mind how good it was. The quality was crazy. I also wondered why more people don't talk about that game.
Damn, I honestly loved cross code. One of my favorite indie games. I still remember playing it's demo on newgrounds and how it blew my mind, and honestly, without that, I doubt I would have found it in a timely manner.
Cross Code is an indie I loved, which isn't something that usually happens. I tend to not be a big fan of indie games.
As for why, likely due to time it took to come out, being released in the wake of Hollow Knight and DDLC (and later Bug Fables), and probably it seeming like a standard throwback RPG at first glance.
I at least was highly disappointed in the story. It opened in a way that made it look like it was narrative focused, and that was also what I had picked up from outside sources, but really its story is quite sparse. What's there is fine, including a handful of great moments, but there's just not much of it (and not because the game in general is short, because it is not). The gameplay had a lot going for it, but I think I would have appreciated it more if it hadn't been such a surprise that the game is a puzzle game that occasionally lets you let loose with fast paced action combat. And it easily takes you up to the refund window to learn that as well.
Combat system took too long to improve for me and I dropped it. Then I found out that it improves greatly. But my first impression still lasts.
good game good times
Comment on the "cool drink problem": if you ever played old MH games (the first two) you'll see that cool drinks are not cheap nor accessible. The first games were more about exploration, gathering, crafting, etc. In every mission it was basically mandatory to collect the most things you can get because everything was rare. That's why in order for you to go to a mission in the desert or volcano, you have to prepare, and that would take a few missions. That made the access to those areas and that type of missions more challenging (and you have more limited inventory slots, so carrying the cool drinks was even more of a challenge). Nevertheless this mechanics got eased with time and with every iteration they introduce ways to improve the "quality of life" of those things so you can focus mainly in the hunt. So yeah what you say is true, but is a reminiscent of the old games.
Some people don't remember what it used to be like T_T! Such changes have even been divisive in the MH community for sure.
Yeah, the actual problem is that these mechanics were based around different in-game economies in games that were harsher and more punishing (less money earned, less inventory space which required more management, more resources to manage and time or effort required to gain items needed, etc). And as games in these genres were streamlined, the mechanics remained the same instead of being properly reconsidered, rebalanced or replaced with a different mechanic that provided a similar effect. Yes, the original implementation could be tedious, but it was a feature that provided tension. Now, the tediousness of the feature is gone but so is the tension. Originally, when you are using a cool drink, or healing your characters with your healing items or mana points, you are constantly reminded of what you had to invest or what you are sacrificing to get those benefits. That's what a lot of modern games are missing: a consequence-based gameplay experience.
And in my opinion, Chained Echoes also does not solve this problem because they are focused on solving issues that were created well past the point those mechanics had lost their edge or usefulness in the first place. It could have been because the pacing of the story is poor so I wasn't even drawn into the narrative enough to see the mechanics to their logical conclusion, but I didn't see what the fuss was about.
@@Officialencode the pain of making sonic bombs for those sand sharks and plesioth
Yeah, running out of Cool while getting smacked by enraged diablos gets you real sweaty
Yeah a lot of people don't remember like you had to prepare longer for encounters Now I can almost go into an encounter with no tools other than healing potions and I'll be okay. Except for them obviously much harder fights in high rank but it was not as crucial together as much as you had to in the earlier MH games
I think the main problem with some of the "inconveniences" that you mentioned (auto heal, random encounters, etc) is that games nowadays just aren't designed around them anymore. Resource management was a core part of the older JRPGs. They had set save points and you have no idea how long dungeons may be and managing your resources as you go through an area to make sure you have enough resources for a possible boss encounter was important. Do you want to keep pressing forward when you're desperately short on MP? Do you want to use that ether now when MP recovery items are scarce and not buyable in shops? Maybe you should cut your losses and go back to town so you don't wipe and lose all your progress.
Games now are designed so you can save wherever you want, whenever you want, quick travel from anywhere to anywhere in seconds and continue right where you left off with healing points and quick travel points scattered everywhere in dungeons in an attempt to be "fair" and "accessible" but due to all of these "QoL" perks it renders most things useless and just busywork because you're always 5 seconds away from warping to town to just refill your mp.
I remember playing games like Children of Mana and Pokémon Mystery Dungeon: Explorers and failing spectacularly in the first dungeons exactly because I didn’t manage my resources properly, trying instead to “save them for later”, so basically doing a hard mode run without the experience nor skill required. I feel like Mystery Dungeon as a series has managed to get even more unforgiving, with the basic attack (the one that doesn’t really accelerate the fill of the hunger meter) dealing almost no damage, forcing the player to exclusively use moves. At least one is able to switch leader mid dungeon, so there are actually four hunger meters to manage.
If you want a game without many "QoL" things, try out Outward. It's one of my favorite games to come out in recent years. No fast travel, every place outside of towns feels genuinely dangerous, alchemy and magic being rare makes stuff like health potions hard to stock up on, especially in the early game.
One series that comes to mind that really captures the resource management well, atleast from what ive been told, is the persona series, since you very much dont know how long a dungeon will last, you can only bring so much in, and you have to balance which enemies you fight and which you dont or youll either use too much of those resources, or youll run out of time for that day.
Completely agree with this though. I remember having to slog my way through areas in ff4 near the end game because everything was just so damn rough. It was a right proper endurance test that could break you quickly if you didnt have enough things, or you mismanaged them early on in that stretch of the journey.
That said i will stand by the fact that i have yet to play a single jrpg that requires you to go back to an area just to grind out levels. If you take every fight head on, you will always be prepared for the boss.
@@DaMoniable Play a real smt game (Persona 2 best)
@@Manudyne As opposed to the fake ones?
Some RPGs of the past were more resource management games like Final Fantasy 1, Dragon Quest 1, and arguably Pokemon Gen 1. Managing your HP, healing items, etc was part of the "fun".
That's a really good point! There are definitely situations where post battle healing can actually add a ton to the experience.
@@mhswoocer this is what I liked about old games. Grinding and eventually getting that one skill that makes things convenient is another, like auto potion or mana walk. Not that I don't disagree with the video but I also never really viewed these points as bad or an issue since most games that are good have ways to balance. Cool drink is something I never really liked tho. But again most of the time cool drink is temporary, like getting poison resist or cool resist armour in games like Valheim replace the potions eventually.
I've always liked how Final Fantasy 4 did it. You had two healers, Cecil and Rosa. Rosa was for healing during battle, but Cecil's magic wasn't nearly as high as Rosa's making him the "in-between" healing guy.
The beauty of this design choice is Cecil gave the player some level of choice of how you healed in-between fights. Once you drain Cecil's small mana pool, you have a choice to feed him Ethers (which you can't buy) so he can heal more or start dipping into your potion reserves and save the Ethers for Rosa. It all depended on what you had on hand and what you felt tour priorities were.
Of course, a smart player always saved the Ethers for the casters. But their hearts were in the right place in this design. It let the players experiment a bit on top of giving the players some rope to hang themselves with. And I never felt that was a bad thing. A game should be harder if you aren't properly thinking things through. But I know many disagree with this assertion.
Came here to say this :)
I don't see the point of playing a turn based rpg when there is basically zero consequences of taking damage or having a character die
“The team behind chained echoes” is actually just one guy. That’s what makes the quality so incredible.
Yup, that was the twist at the end! I tried really hard to be ambiguous with how many people were working on it to make it seem like it was a whole group of people when in reality it was just one guy!
That's crazy, the game is very polished. This actually convinced me to retake it
But then why does the credits name so many random people if it really is just "one guy"?
@@Loner098ecause it really isn't just one guy. There's a composer, artists, sfx team, localisers and others. The indie sphere likes to designate a random game every few years as "developed by one person".
He DID however do the majority of the work on conceptualising and programming the game, which should really be impressive enough already
@@Croyles And then you have someone like Jun'ya "ZUN" Ota at Team Shanghai Alice, who's both the founder AND the only one there that works on the Touhou Project games along with the music. And they still come out solid.
while the cool drink is a relic of a time in monster hunter when the game was less action and more sim, its still a valuble teaching tool. if you bring it to a hunt in a hot area you wont notice it but not bringing it is a huge punishment. it teaches you to always be prepared, even if it is something so inconspicious as a cool drink, proper preparation pays off
Not only that but it does add a bit of extra tension and strategy. There were usually areas in the map in the desert that did not require you to consume a cold drink. So bringing the monster to these areas to get the most damage in and using the drink only when needed was part of the strategy.
It seems to have taught me not to play those games. I’m so glad they did away with that, for now, with Sunbreak and the dance/flex after drinking.
Exactly this, the game is about preparation. It's deliberately made to be an inconvenience so players know that carelessness will get you killed.
I see that you guys have learnt to love the cage you're confined within. Neat
@@tactiti0n It was cool. Rise streamlined everything to the point of really just being a bossrush with lots of walking. The actual hunt is missing
I just finished chained Echoes after putting in 107 hours in. Its an absolute MASTERPIECE!! Even including musical tracks that brought me to tears. I have been talking about it to all of my friends.
Wtf did you do in 107 hours holy. It took me half of that to get everything done o.o
@@seifeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee maybe they are just bad at games in general? Could have taken twice as long to beat every enemy lol
@@nom6758 Or they leave the game on pause a lot, lol.
@@CidGuerreiro1234 Yeah, I don't know my "real" play time because of this. I think I ended with something like 56h on the clock, but I think I may have truly played something like 40h.
@@CidGuerreiro1234 Fair enough, i tend to do that a lot. Like playing until I need to cook food or something like that and I'll just leave it there, paused.
Chained Echoes made me love jrpgs again. It made me feel like a little kid playing Chrono Trigger and FFVI on my SNES and it's the first game in a very long time that made me want to 100% it.
Right?! It genuinely felt like I was just playing Chrono Trigger again.
Same here!
@@mhswoocer final fantasy 13 also has auto healing after battle.
Same. I’ve been on a major turn based kick since completing Chained Echoes a couple of months ago. I can’t wait to see what this developer makes next.
@@mhswoocer I knew I couldnt be the only to think that the battle system looks just like Chrono Trigger to me. I have this game on my wishlist and have for some time, but as I am playing through Chrono for the first time now (I know, late to the game) I feel like this game will be a good logical step once I finish Chrono.
Turn based combat doesn't "kinda suck", it's just that many games do the bare minimum with it and don't give you many meaningful tactical options. Persona 5 (and SMT in general) is a good example of a game with very traditional turn based combat that is enhanced by making elements and statues much more potent than most games, thus making them actually significant tactical options (on top of the extra actions you get from the press turn system. The Trails of Cold Steel games add a bit of turn manipulation and spacing to the traditional turn based combat which makes tactical thinking more important in tougher boss fights and harder encounters.
I don´t believe Persona 5 to be the best representative of "Good" turn based combat. I might be biased as I truly dislike turnb-based combat, but Persona 5 was like a breeze to me. The system is just to learn the enemy weakness and do multiple baton passes and that´s it
@@rafaelrugama4194 SMT V then? The system is very simple at it's core yes, but even the easier Persona 5 rewards tactical decisions in battle more than most turn based JRPGs do
Pokemon have an incredible turn based system. Complex type charts and their effectiveness isn't linear. There's a lot more to the battle than just clicking a move and it doing damage. Stats are meaningful and status moves aren't useless. EVs, IVs, Nature, Items, base stats, priority of moves, STAB, etc. Not to mention battle formats - single, double or even triple battles all make for unique experiences.
I always love what Atlus tries with their turn based combat. Radiant Historia is another interesting game from them with turn swapping and the 3x3 enemy grid and moves that accommodate it, plus a combo system that increases damage the more hits you do on a players consecutive turn. We need more developers like them that are willing to bend the formula a bit to make turn based games more engaging.
@@letmesleepinpeace7052 Pokémon has good turn based combat? This is very funny
ok you convinced me. ima play it. had it installed on game pass since it released on there but never touched it
My buddy who typically a I-only-play-OSRS-and-League, and typically plays gamepass games for like an hour, accidentally bought this game 😂
He's not mad though - he can steamdeck it and he's super happy with the game. Basically a happy accident :) the game is great!!
same
Just completed it. Loved it. Didn't want it to end.
I was wondering why TH-cam recommend me this video. I am gonna guess it's because you commented on it since I don't follow this channel but do follow/watch yours. So thanks for commenting Stanimus, otherwise I'd most likely never knew this game was a worth it, let alone out.
@@bignorthmxo3350 yo relax, u gonna lick his toilet bowl clean too?
I am so glad this game is really getting the recognition it deserves. It's firmly cemented into my favorites of all time. I also am obligated to point out that this was a solo developer, and it was his first game.
didn't he make Cross Code before this?
Thank you for pointing that out. This game is already so inspiring, but that fact is important. It shows how impactful a single strong vision can have on a project; especially if you’re trying to innovate an old genre.
@@kori228 Nope
I started playing this game a couple days ago and fell in love with it. Just in the opening hour the game introduces most of the main characters in a very smart and fun way. Which is just genius. It felt more like i was reading a really good book rather than playing a really good game. Which in my book, is a win
the music tho
First 10/10 game in a while. The thing about this game is that its really well thought out and you can FEEL it as you're playing the game. It never feels grindy, it never makes you feel like you're wasting time, Everything from puzzles to combat is fun and has a purpose. Inventory management isnt tedious and is actually quite fun. The story is intriguing. Characters are memorable. It has no weak points in my opinion. This to me is the new gold standard for turn based games. Simply a masterpiece. All big developers should hire the guy who made this game as a consultant cuz honestly id rather play this than 95% of the AAA games out there. Its Brilliant.
Well... the crystal system might be a weak point. It's a bit more complicated than it has to be, and crafting tends to get tedious. However game is still a 10/10 as this is just a small part of the whole game and you could even completely skip it.
@@lankaras444i agree but you dont really have to play with it, i find it a bit of a shame tho, lvl X crystal are dumb hard to get
To be fair, playing around 2/3 of your favorite characters and using crystals on them is really manageable and make them so powerfull, even when just lvl V crystal
I loved it and agree with everything you mentioned but I feel it does have objective flaws; the story was a bit of a mess, throwing in concepts that felt very "tacked on" and never really given their due closure nor were the story relevance of these concepts adequately explained (the kings or w/e). Some combat aspects were added way too late (so were many of the characters), specifically Enmity, the dev seemed to have almost forgot about this mechanic shortly after the tutorial, as it's never necessary again.
Just as crosscode , you see the quality when u play
I think the cool drink "Problem" is great in monster hunter. It puts the hunter in a position where they have to think about what to bring before going on a quest. Be it the environment they have to deal with, the smaller monsters that may be a problem or different types of traps and tools. And later games where they do not have this feature I often find myself blinding taking health potions and usually nothing else to areas where before hand I always spent a good 3-4 minutes thinking hard about what to bring and plan out to make the hunt as easy as possible.
thats what makes monster hunter great. planning :)
I don't remember if in MH Rise this mattered but in World it didn't. You could just go back to the tent and get it there or go pick up herbs that made those if they were around the map.
@@seifeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee Rise doesn't require hot or cool drinks, but prior to world the games did. And similarly, the environment sometimes had ingredients to craft the drinks in the field, but it was still a task you had to take on deliberately. Back then tho, you couldn't go to the tent to stock up in the field and ingredients didn't glow or sparkle in the field. Some games didn't even have a "Press X" prompt for items you could pick up, you just had to guess and check. I know a lot of people prefer those modern quality of life changes in world and rise, but the older games immersed me more and let me feel like i was really a hunter in the wild with only my gear and my wits.
In essence MH had some form of "simulation" aspect to their games where you weren't just boss rushing but hunting and having to keep in mind the environments you hunted in.
@@alondite215 I disagree but I think that is a fair perspective.
You know what game solved the turn based no-avoiding-attacks problem more elegantly than any other I've played? Mario and Luigi: Superstar Saga.
By making the enemy attacks actually something you can dodge/counter on the enemy's turn, it not only solves the problem of being unable to react to getting hit, but turns it into a really fun minigame that rewards skill and timing. And it's visually and mechanically intuitive.
That's a perfect game.
God damn, that brings back fun memories, learning the timings of the super moves and dodges etc, what a good game, imma have to dig it up if i can find it in the attic!
I've started playing Cristales recently, and I'm honestly really disappointed that it's not better quality than it is, because the combat was thiiiis close to combining Mario & Luigi style active combat with a timetravel mechanic not dissimilar in function to Chained Echoes' Overdrive.
Unfortunately, minute long loading screens and _very_ flat dialogue have detracted heavily from the experience.
(oh and on switch you can't turn off the vibration and MY GOD does it want to buzz anytime anything happens)
Welp, guess I'm gonna have to play this game at some point.
have you played it now?
@@someonetrustme161 not yet. Thanks for reminding me
@@jerichtandoc7789 uhuh! glad to remind you after 1 year!! and btw Goodluck in Life!
@@someonetrustme161 yo, thanks!!!
I guess that's why Pillars of Eternity feels so good to play. The leveling up is tied to the narrative too, and the best thing is that you have two sets of health: one per encounter and a bigger one per rest. This means that as long as you have total health, you'll recover the encounter health after every encounter.
Thanks for the vid, your passion goes through and you definitely pushed up the game in my backlog queue.
My opinion on the subjects.
There is no "perfect" formula to these kind of designs and mechanics, there is only what each person enjoys more and how they approach/design it. For example:
-Auto healing after every battle makes your characters feel "invulnerable" and "tireless" and totally throws out resource management. This can also break the immersion for some players.
-Leveling up at specific points can feel very on rails and predictable. Getting your face smashed from being underleveled/unprepared as well as breezing through enemies can be fun for some while also giving very solid feedback on your progress/strategies.
Very complex stuff to analyze, but it boils down to preference.
Overdrive sounds amazing though :)
Cool drink is there for immersion. When Rise took cool and hot drinks out, I lost the immersion. I don't feel like I am in a cold or hot place anymore.
I _adore_ the idea of levelling up with story progression... but I have to say, I also really really LOVE grinding, LOL.
It allows and rewards that as well. You get sp points per battle to upgrade the moves you have
i really appreciate you making this video essay without any sort of spoilers.
Comparing this game to CrossCode was the only argument I needed to finaly put Chained Echoes in my wishlist
To answer your first question: Immersion. If you're hurt, you have to heal. If you're hot you need to cool down. If you're hungry you need to eat. While its very convenient when none of this matters, when it does and its implement right it can immerse you in a simulation style gameplay. Also with healing it adds more strategy, forcing you to chose between being frugal vs miserly and causing a potential death.
@@alondite215 I disagree. The fact that my character in the game has to worry about thirst, hunger, dying of heat vrs being some semi immortal being that doesn't have bodily functions is a huge step in immersion.
@@alondite215 Shut up. You're impressing no one.
@@alondite215 you gotta work on not sounding like a condescending cunt. nobody even said they think of those things mid-gameplay, they were talking about the game in general.
That kylian thumbnail, remembering his sacrifices in pursuit of his ideals. The developer invested so much time to this game, even the items has description, which is very fun to read and sometimes characters are incorporated to it. There's this game, Sea of Stars, which is also highly anticipated to jrpg fans having the same retro vibes and pixel art to chained echoes.
I like the concept of Kylian, I just really hated that I felt like the sacrifices he made didn’t make sense for the ideals he espoused. I kept wondering why he did certain things in the story instead of more practical approaches or why he was taking the path that he took. Also, the ideals he espoused made no sense to me in the context of what was more broadly happening, he wanted a certain political framework in a rather anachronistic way from how the rest of the political systems were set up in the story.
@@TheUltimegaMan he values justice, honor, and loyalty, and is willing to do whatever it takes to defend the innocent and uphold these ideals. In addition, Kylian also has a strong sense of personal responsibility, which is evident in his determination to continue fighting even when faced with adversity or difficult circumstances. Overall, Kylian is depicted as a brave and dedicated warrior who is driven by a strong sense of duty and purpose. Yea it's messed up what happened but he was Kylian until the end. Always in search for power. No matter the cost.
The cool drink "problem" can be used to rationalize removing literally every interactive element of any game. May as well just watch a movie instead.
No matter how much you remove, something else will become the new "cool drink" weakest link to hyper fixate on.
Eh, though I do think that the perspective in the video goes too far, I think you do as well. When there's no real decision, the mechanic doesn't add to the game. There being a tax is one thing, but you can implement that tax more gracefully to make paying it annoying only because of the actual cost rather than the fiddling.
@@Latronibus but it adds some color to the game. Similarly to how in Breath of The Wild you need to put on a coat in order to go into the mountains because of cold, you could argue similarly that it doesn't add any challenge, like duh just put on the coat, but it adds variety and realism.
I agree with @Myria you could really make the same argument for almost anything in most games, for example having spells of different elements when it's clear who's vulnerable to what spell, it's like a fake choice but it would be boring to only have one element type.
That's objectively untrue. Not even a foot resting in reality. The "cool drink" issue is an issue because the mechanic is stupid, not impactful, and adds nothing to gameplay. You can still have interactive gameplay and make it meaningful, unless your suggesting that all interactive gameplay is completely pointless and badly implemented? You're trying to connect two dots while missing the 5 million dots in between them. Many interactive mechanics are implemented well and many simply aren't. The issue is the "cool drink" is the laziest design they could have chosen for said mechanic.
You know there are alternative ways to implement a similar mechanic as "cool drinks" to make it more impactful and actually feel good? It's just that the MH fail over and over to try to improve their formulas outside a few gimmicks each iteration. This is clearly a game design issue.
@@mindaugasjurevicius5776 Putting on a coat in Breath of the wild is not really comparable to having to reuse a potion over and over again to be in a hot location in game. For them to be comparable, you would just go into hot areas on MH wearing something that keeps you cooled down... which is a better implementation than "cool drinks* Using elemental magic to hit elemental weakness is also not comparable by a much larger margin. You're taking something that adds at least SOME strategy to a game with something that requires none. There are soooo many ways to put elemental weakness into a JRPG and make you find out yourself what the weaknesses are.
While there are ways to avoid having to use cool drinks in MH, it's almost always at the cost of much better skills and stats, which it simply shouldn't be that large of a tradeoff.
@@sarkaztik3228 I think it's comparable, because the main issue with the potion was (unless I misunderstood) that it loses it's meaning when there's infinite amount of them and there is no challenge to get them, the coat in BOTW can be described in the exact same way, both items have the same purpose and you just always have both of them, the only difference is that potions are more annoying because you need to press some buttons every few minutes to use it.
I agree that my elements example is a bit more far fetched but it's still comparable enough:
Potion in MH: you need to find out that you need to use it in order to survive in that area, and after that you use it all the time and it's boring.
Elements in JRPGs: you need to find out what element you need to use against a certain enemy and you'll use it against that enemy all the time, you won't touch other element spells.
I think a lot of the changes you've mentioned are more of a lateral move than an upward move. Streamlining party management and handling combat encounters in this way are both good things, but that doesn't necessarily make them better than the old-school way that jrpg's did them. Both are different approaches that provide a specific experience. I personally do enjoy having to keep up my party's health, as well as the tension of wondering whether the next combat encounter will be the one that finally whittles me down enough to send me back to save.
From what I'm seeing here, I'd say this game is a great option either for people who can't get into jrpg's because of all the maintenance stuff, or for veterans experiencing jrpg burnout. As a member of the latter group, I'm really grateful that you covered this game because I had never heard of it before and now I get to sink my teeth into a new jrpg.
As a working class, adult, parent few things make me sadder than the knowledge that I simply do not have the time to appreciate things like this anymore, even knowing that I'd love them.
Thank you for making this video so good it got viral enough for me to find about this absolute gem of a game.
Sincerely, Thank you.
this ia probably one of the best natural and indirect marketing a game could get, gets us interested and it doesn’t feel like an ad which would put a lot of people off. actually interested, well done
This is maybe the best RPG I played in a long time, can't thank enough the guy who made the recommendation on a video months ago.
Good for you, from what I hear this game "fixes" many things I never considered a problem, offers an innovative battle system that is great, but I personally don't consider it to be that special because, once again is made to solve a problem I never considered a problem.
I can see how great the game probably is to casual players though. Many of these details were problems for them that stopped them from enjoying JRPGs, but I cannot help but think that the OP is overselling the game. The other game he cited was one that I felt deserves more praise.
@@bloody4558 With you on this. I really dislike the way OP put down older game features as issues that needed to be solved. I didn't realize how much I missed Cool/Hot Drinks in older MH titles until I went on every hunt in Rise and just... didn't need to use them. A lot of the preparation I slowed down to make in old titles just didn't happen in Rise. I no longer feel the need to create item sets based on which map I'm going into or which monster I'm fighting. I take healing items and items that boost my damage, and that's it. This isn't the only thing removed from the series in the latest MH game, and all of the old features and mechanics being removed kinda makes the game feel empty. I don't feel like a hunter going on a hunt. Just a guy with a hammer or a stick dunking on monsters for no reason whatsoever. There's just no immersion anymore. I really enjoy the new combat and how easy it is to just pick up and put down the game, but it's not the only reason why I fell in love with the franchise.
Chained Echoes does look amazing, and I'd love to give it a try, but it was unnecessary for OP to put down these classic game features as "problems" that needed to be solved in order to puff up the "modern" take on JRPGs. It's just an innovation, not a solution. That said, I don't think CE is wrong for making these types of changes, especially for players who have work and other responsibilities, but the issue lies in the oversaturated market for games and the compulsory feeling of having to play every game ever due to the FOMO or whatever you want to call it. Grinding in video games was fine before, and was never seen as an issue until people grew up. It's not an issue now if all you do is play games, or don't mind playing a slow grind over longer periods of time, but people just want to go through every new title that comes out. I'm a firm believer that you can enjoy both the classic and modern RPG without either necessarily being better than the other. That's why I have over 200GB's worth of emulators and games for them. I haven't touched most of them, but they're so enjoyable when I find the time.
Crosscode was also pretty fun from what I remember, but it just didn't click with me. There's so much good artwork for the game, but you can't appreciate it because you're just going from one area to the next. There's no exploration, there's no small secrets you find out after double and triple checking the area. There's no loitering about, just making sure you got everything you possibly can. You just click on the next objective. There's almost no immersion at all, and if you don't feel immersed in the world, all those hard-hitting, "deep" moments just don't feel... deserved. There's no satisfaction gained from beating a level when you feel rushed through them--when games are streamlined (not to say this one is, I wouldn't know since I haven't played it).
By the way, I came here from Asmongold's reaction video!
@@wetnoodlex
Cross code absolutely has their share of secrets in each area. But it's divided by the layers you can explore that can lead to new sections. Often times you are required to find a specific route that isn't always obvious, but it takes you to that one section you just can't reach. Sometimes the route starts off not in the same area you are exploring, but in a parallel one, requiring you to discover a path that leads you through upper levels into the next zone. I love how Cross Code dealt with parkour, even if it can be confusing where it wants me to go.
Thank you for making this video! Love seeing games with mature design, and they often fly under the radar.
Chained Echoes is incredible. It's a great achievement for the developer Matthais Linda and JRPGs as a genre.
You made an incredible write up of this. I already have it on my list but I think I need to finally check it out.
Literally the only turn-based RPG that I love. The part where the game doesn't force me to get ambushed is my favorite. Like, I want to explore the map and find treasures and secrets not to fight all the time. It's so annoying. Everything about this game makes me enjoy it. I wish we have 100 games like this.
This Game is an absolute love letter for me and so underrated i think. Since my childhood games like golden sun, final fantasy, pokemon, tales of phantasia there was never a jrpg that catched me that much like chained echoes. I rushed throught this game crazy and finished it after 2 weeks and 70h with all bonus things and i loved it.
The story was crazy deep, the sound is amazing, all the systems are perfect created (inclouding the mechs, cause im normally not a fan of mech powers) and much moore.
If u search for something nostalgic, here u go
0:17 Using the keyblade charge blade? A true man of culture, I see
I am so glad I found this video. I bought the game not long after and it is definitely one of the best games I've ever played. I never expected the story to be written so phenomenally. Hit me in the feels by the end of it. I highly recommend this game to everyone who either loves JRPGs, pixel art-style, or good written stories. Please support them!
11:07 Crosscode ironically is in my top 5 most enjoyable experiences in RPG's. The story, characters, puzzles, and combat are just amazing. Really wish it picked up more traction and it's a shame it didn't.
Dont get what the fuss over cross code is. Got 10 hours in and still unimpressed
You sold me on this game. I haven't played a jrpg in YEARS. I finally found one that has me excited. Thank you.
In MH the point of the game really at it's core is preparation. From the type of weapons you use to your armor and food buffs and now the minions and their items and attacks everything is about how you prepare for the fight. If you know a monsters weakness you can plan and prepare and down them easily, if you rush in you might get by with weapon skill alone but it might be a slog to get through and worst case you might not down it at all. Cool Drink is just one more thing you bring in preparation. Its a micro management game at it's core which is why there are so many systems to check in on, set up, send out and manage between hunts. Same can be said for healing after a battle, its up to you to manage the health of your team just like it is to manage their skills, weapons and armor. People do enjoy idle games for a reason so the appeal for a system to do the management for you is what some people are after but a lot of JRPG type games thrive off that management which in Chained Echos comes in that Overdrive bar. It's the same system just with different steps. Rather than needing to drink a cool drink to stop yourself from taking damage you now need to swap a character to lower the bar with their skill or attack. Hunters need to stop and think if they are going to take the extra damage from the heat in the zone just to dish out extra damage to a stunned or low HP monster OR do they run away to take a drink and heal up so they can secure that kill even if it extends the fight. Don't get my wrong this is a good thing and switching up the Cool Drink mechanic will breath new life into games but you can't simply dismiss one management system as flawed and praise the same idea just in a different coat of paint. Its the exact same thing.
I adored this game. The ending left a lot to be desired in my opinion, but the experience and gameplay were such a breath of fresh air.
I bought this game somewhere in the first half of this year and I postponed it until last week and just finished it yesterday.
I love this game. As you said there are many quality of life improvements that makes this game comfortable to play.
Combat is great, story is great, OST is great and exploration is also great
The "healing after battle" is such a nice mechanic i kinda want to play this game now. Xenoblade 1,2 and 3 have the same feature too, which drew me into the game...
I dont know I like healing after battles and stuff, but the economy has to be substantial I like how skies of arcadia handled it. Where spells costed MP and if you ran out of MP you cant use spells. So you would have to conserve your items stratgically until you were able to get your next stop.
I stumbled upon your video while looking for Crosscode musics. Having played Chained Echoes at its release after Crosscode devs advertised it, I was curious to see what you had to say.
This video is by far one of the best argumentation I’ve ever seen in terms of structure. It’s just so good to see someone putting so much effort into making a point and ending up doing so well. I hope you’ll keep making such good content, as for me I’ll definitely subscribe.
Thanks for the great video! Looks like another great looking game I'll have to add to the list!
Thank you! Glad you liked it!
The cool drink in Monster Hunter is not a problem, you have limited space in your inventory and this makes planning before the quests to a more immersive experience, even more because is fairly easy to make Cool Drinks, it's a way to streamline what a Hunter will Hunt, it's the same way you bring nullberries if you gonna fight a monster with elemental blights, or like you bring attack/defense potion for extra hard fights, it's a way to make players plan beforehand and feel like they are a hunter going out to hunt, and you even forgot to say that cool drinks gives a buff that negates passive damage from Extreme Heat caused by the aura of certain Elder Dragons, like Lunastra or Teostra.
Besides this little misconception of your video, Chained Echoes is really a fun game, I played it when was first released through gamepass and had a blast with it.
Wishlists will pick this up for sure, huge ups for spotlighting these games i literally redownloaded Chrono Trigger an hour ago to scratch that turn based itch. I dont want to finish Octo 2
If I’m being totally honest, the reason I like cool drinks as a premise in Mh is because I think they’re the first instance of preparation for hunts, and they’re an easy to digest way to force someone to start examining the hunts they go on, and then that leads into the more nuanced decisions and prep. Is it the best execution of this? No, honestly I’m not even sure its a great one, but I think in the context of monster hunter it works well. It’s a lesson. But yeah it definitely gets annoying
I saw my boy Kylian on the thumbnail and I was like “oh hey I’m the exception” lol. I really like this game. It’s never made me get stuck on one spot for too long, and whenever I get bored it feels like it adds something new. I can definitely see that it’s fixing a lot of problems with older games.
Definitely my indie GOTY for 2022. Put in roughly 70 hours and did everything, got all characters and ultimate weapons, fought all unique monsters, etc. This is an exceptional game and needs to be experienced by all fans of the golden era JRPGS. Highly recommend!!
Normally when I lose a battle in an turn based rpg, my take-away isn't that I played the fight poorly, it's that I didn't grind enough before the fight.
This game looks beautiful.
So, maybe this is just the masochist in me, but I actually can't quite agree with some of this stuff, though there is some I definitely agree on. Here's my two cents! (And on another note, you legit convinced me to get Chained Echoes! I'mma have to wait for a deal due to current issues, but either way, I'm excited! Thanks for bringing light onto this game!)
Primarily, when it comes to the Cool Drink Problem? Don't get me wrong, I agree fully with that idea for the most part. In Monster Hunter World, it was actually, to phrase it bluntly, "tits on a bull". In a game where you can go back at any time to base and just get more? All just to solve it on the ONE map where it matters with the Volcano? It's lame. But in MHGenUlt and prior, you had a much more limited inventory. In games previously, you had to stuff your inventory with all the stuff: Health potions, honey, cook books, etc. to maximize your hunt... And sometimes, when you knew you were going to a place with cold or hot climates, you had to bring those. And not one map or two, sometimes multiple environments had a few areas that caused the Hot/Cool drinks to be necessary. So combine a limited inventory with using one of those slots you could use instead for barrel bombs, flash bombs, and charms for that? It was a legit problem and NEEDED you to be aware of where you were going. But in later games, this... Just wasn't necessary anymore, and to keep it in when the game already holds your hand as much as it does, just doesn't match the games gameplay anymore.
As for when it comes to RPGs, the potions being inexpensive tends to be an Economy problem in the game. In games where potions are more expensive, the idea is that the game is trying to get you to be more defensive and to punish you if you callously go around. I'll be honest, I used to hate the same thing in RPGs, but as I've grown up, I've come to appreciate things like that... When they're a part of the experience the game tries to portray. If a game wants to be more punishing, fine, that's actually good if it's going for that. High prices on any recovery things, low gold gain, healing spells are more costly or rarer, etc. Having a risk of LOSING is just as necessary to an experience, because it causes you to play more cautiously (in some cases) and consider options you might not usually. Personally, I actually like it when I'm not usually recovered, or when things get dicey, because it feels like there's some new angle I should consider, and when an RPG -plays- to that, it's really rewarding. But if I'm just recovered most of the time, with no items, it makes me wonder how much danger I'm REALLY in. It's why I love in Xenoblade Chronicles, seeing -enormous- monsters that are WAY too strong for me just wandering. It's scary and reminds me this world is not BUILT for me, and that powerful beings can live anywhere they please. (But your health auto-recovers in this game, and that works PERFECT for it's type of gameplay!)
That said, by and large, most RPGs -did- make potions cheap and recovery options plentiful, and it feels like "okay, so if it's so small a cost for these kind of things, why have them in the first place?", which I fully agree with, that just felt unnecessary. Sure, it might make it worse in longer dungeons and stuff where maybe you probably shouldn't even be, and GASP! You might actually have to worry that you COULD lose! Most of the time in RPGs, just wandering to a place, I'd be the level I need without having to grind much, unless there was something I really wanted. But that didn't "add" or "change" my experience any, it just made me need to walk some extra steps, grab excessive amounts of stuff, and then waddle away. So I'm glad that this RPG you talked about actually sort of streamlines it's experience by letting you just focus purely on how you handle encounters, without making "trips to town" a constant or jazz like that. It looks like it keeps you focused on the core gameplay loop itself, which is good, and seems like the game had a dev who knew WHAT kind of experience they wanted to deliver, and trimmed the fat off of it to give you an experience that fits what it wanted to be. Big respect to the dev here.
TL;DR -
1. Cool drinks for MH were more for previous entries, they would be honestly useless to the gameplay experience now.
2. I feel like a lot of RPGs suffered from an economy problem which mitigated a lot of difficulty or tension it was trying to draw out, and that ultimately the video is right.
3. I feel like a lot of RPGs also need to remember where "difficulty" comes from and play to the strengths of that, and that it leads to a lot of these small issues.
4. The game he talked about sounded really fun, and like it KNEW what kind of gameplay experience it wanted, and played to those strengths.
I absolutely loved this game, it really highlighted some of the best parts of my fav rpgs. Thanks for covering this!
I subbed to your channel because you did a video about Chained Echoes. The fact that you loved Cross Code shows your impeccable taste in games. Both of those games are some of my favorites, and now when I get bored, I'm going to go through your backlog to find my next game to play.
The SaGa series has been doing the HP thing for ages. You always start every battle with full HP, but there's a secondary stat, LP, that carries over between fights. You typically only take LP damage if your HP hits 0, and LP can't be restored in the field.
Damage that carries over after battle and enemies preventing you from escaping help bring a sense of realism to the game. Also unless you're terrible at JRPGS it's a non issue at "hour 50" because your resources should be near limitless.
Honestly this, not to mention how easy it is nowadays to heal the party such as auto heal from P5 or even shortcuts to healing skills/items to heal up the party.
That latter bit is the point he's making. If HP management between battles is going to be trivial, why bother making players go through the motions? Either make HP management between battles interesting (or at least hard), or do away with it outside of combat. And HP are already an abstraction: there are plenty of ways to increase realism while auto-regenerating HP between battles. An injury system, for instance.
"Terrible at RPGs". You say that as if JRPGS take skill or are difficult lmao.
@@kuwaghost If it's that easy than literally WHY even have it in the game? It's pointless.
@@sarkaztik3228 they don't that's what makes this dude's opinions even sadder.
You can block and avoid attacks in turn based rpgs a lot, there is the blind/slow/invisible/accuracy up/accuracy down/formations/shields/reflects/charms and many more, even in FFX you could get avoid & counter abilities on your equipment, also blind huge enemies to dont get oneshot by them.
Even in classic rpg games Armor and equipment didn't give you defence it just did give you a higher chance of not being hit and it was less attractive but it worked really fine.
Thanks to this I gave it a shot. Just finished it. The game is fantastic! Give or take some parts of the very end, it's still more than enough that I'd love to see a follow up. One of the best games I've played in years!
Great video! Subbed and picking up Chained Echos!
Yeah chained echoes was my game of the year last year. I can’t recommend it enough. I didn’t know this was gonna be a chained echoes video going in, but I’m glad it was. The game needs more exposure.
Hilarious that whenever I see one of those "best game no one has played" videos it's a game that I already have and love
Great video man, keep spreading the word. This game deserves a lot more love
Had the pleasure of playing both chained echoes and cross code, both absolutely recommended games!
I dunno sounds kinda easy to me. Nothing wrong with the uncertainty of exploration and wandering off to an area where you have no place being and getting one shot
Honestly chained echoes is easily the most brilliantly designed turned based rpg I've ever played and you've perfectly encapsulated why. This is easily one of my favorite games ever and with the switch version coming later this year I'm hoping it finds the massive success it deserves.
(Btw if you don't mind I'm going to be stealing the phrase "the cold drink problem". It's too great not to use.)
By all means! It's a problem that you can see in a ton of games, so I figured I'd just give it a name.
I am tempted to just download it on switch. I preordered the collectors edition on first press games but god knows how long it will take to arrive. I hear some of their games are not shipped for literally a year or even 2. I cant wait that long lol
@@Terron29 I mean hey if you get it on switch, you'll be able to take it on the go with you!
@@Berdomlikesgames i like your thinking! :D
It's already out on Switch! I already have it downloaded!
This game and Cross Code have been two of the games ive invested myself in most for a long time. Between these and the soon-to-be released Sea of Stars, it seems like the turn based rpg genre of old has really recieved a huge breath of fresh air in the past couple of years.
This video strikes at the core of why this game is so amazing! Excellent pacing, the best battle system of all time and even a enjoyable story and world. Best JRPGS of recent decades.
Him: you can make the experience as smooth as possible
Me: ah I can make it as difficult as I want it
Chained Echos is at the top of my wishlist. After that is another game I feel like might be a sleeper later this year is Sea of Stars. I think it’s gonna be a great game and hopefully it gets it’s shine!
Your subscription request was perfectly timed. I literally subscribed right then and there :)
Incredible story. So many twists and surprises.
just wanted to say that this is the video that prompted me to try this game out! i've been loving it from the first few minutes to the 30-hour mark i'm at currently. thanks for sharing!
Nope. The best part of jrpgs are how your hp and mp dont auto heal. Managing your health and sp as you go is like the best part of the combat stuff
100 percent. I don't know how so many people miss this obvious point. It's PART of the experience
What? I was always over stocked on ho and MP pots. Literally what managing was there? Unless your purposefully handicapping yourself you will always have more than enough potions yes this includes old RPG games
Except 99% of the time, it's not an issue. Tons of people finish such games with hundreds of unused health and mana potions. Slogging through easy encounters that only exist to scratch you and tire you is not novel; for most people it's a boring waste of time.
Some games get resource management right; it can create tough and interesting decisions. But 99% of the time it doesn't.
After having watched this vid, getting inspired to play this game, having completed this game, I give it 8.5/10 + can recommend.
The setting/story overall is great and surprised me a couple of times, characters are...a bit flat and sometimes a tad dum-dums, but not aggrovatingly so, they're believably human, gameplay is great and nice -- Overdrive mechanic is fun and interesting to juggle (and even has "difficulty" setting in accessibilty menu, which is a big plus for both end of spectrum). Audio-visuals are fantastic! The fact that all of this was made by one person never stops to amaze me.
Oh wow, this really sounds great. I'm someone who tends to enjoy RPGS . . . for about the first three hours, and then I get bored of the repetitive combat, which dis-incentivizes me from exploring (but is often necessary to embrace to avoid being underleveled and/or without the means of buying better equipment). But I like the exploration and learning about the games' respective worlds. And, well, frankly most RPGS feel almost exactly the same. So many old ideas, done again and again with little to no innovation. But this game not having grinding, across-the-board leveling, guaranteed escape, and static encounters just sounds amazing. It seems like you could actually EXPLORE the world you find yourself in.
I totally understand that! It feels like there are so many problems in the genre that just haven't been addressed for decades, but this game feels like such a breath of fresh air!
From your comment I guarantee you'll love this game
For what it's worth, The Legend of Heroes: Trails in the Sky series also solves a lot of these issues in its own way. It has a logarithmic exp curve, so if you're under leveled you can expect to gain a level every encounter or two, while if you're overleveled your exp gain slows down significantly enough that you won't be after a plot point or two. Like Chained Echos, Trails in the Sky has a 100% run rate, so if you just don't wanna fight you can decide not to (obviously there are story encounters that you can't run from). All this ensures that the game's combat doesn't get in the way of the story and worldbuilding, which is some of the best I've seen in any medium period. The games are a little long (3 games at about 60-80 hours each), but they truly are excellent games that I cannot recommend highly enough.
This isn't to take away from Chained Echos of course, Imma wishlist that game now after a review like that, but I just wanted to say there are other games that solve at least some of the problems described in this video.
Great video! I'm currently playing through this game, and all the things you mentioned here are exactly why I'm enjoying the game so much.
Also, one quick suggestion: can you keep your game clips to sections relatively early in the game? Just to avoid mild spoilers about later characters or areas.
Edit: I skimmed through the video and I definitely did show a few late game areas, that's totally my bad. ̶ ̶W̶h̶i̶l̶e̶ ̶I̶ ̶d̶i̶d̶ ̶t̶r̶y̶ ̶t̶o̶,̶ ̶T̶h̶e̶r̶e̶'̶s̶ ̶a̶ ̶v̶e̶r̶y̶ ̶h̶i̶g̶h̶ ̶c̶h̶a̶n̶c̶e̶ ̶I̶ ̶m̶e̶s̶s̶e̶d̶ ̶u̶p̶ ̶o̶n̶c̶e̶ ̶o̶r̶ ̶t̶w̶i̶c̶e̶ ̶s̶i̶n̶c̶e̶ ̶I̶ ̶d̶i̶d̶ ̶u̶s̶e̶ ̶o̶v̶e̶r̶ ̶a̶ ̶h̶u̶n̶d̶r̶e̶d̶ ̶c̶l̶i̶p̶s̶ ̶l̶o̶l̶.̶ ̶I̶f̶ ̶I̶ ̶d̶i̶d̶ ̶a̶c̶c̶i̶d̶e̶n̶t̶a̶l̶l̶y̶ ̶s̶p̶o̶i̶l̶ ̶s̶o̶m̶e̶t̶h̶i̶n̶g̶ ̶l̶a̶t̶e̶ ̶g̶a̶m̶e̶ ̶I̶'̶m̶ ̶s̶o̶r̶r̶y̶,̶ I'll do my best to avoid it in the future!
I kickstarted this game a couple years ago. So glad it lived up to the hype upon release. It's a great feeling being a small part to help such a work of art come to fruition.
Purchased and having a blast all thanks to this video, cheers!
I'm actually playing through this game right now and its been nothing short of spectacular so far. I feel the main influences are Chrono Trigger, FFVI, Xenogears, and Suikoden but without emulating any of those experiences too much. Chained Echoes nods to the past while doing its own thing very well. This is what I want from modern 2D RPGs. I feel like this game and CrossCode are the pillars of indie RPGs. CrossCode nailed the action combat and puzzles while Chained Echoes nailed the turn based style. Two of my favorite RPGs of the last few years and neither were big budget AAA games. I think what gives these games an edge for me is they are not held back by corporate restrictions. They can use their imagination to the fullest extent and just make the game they want without some suit taking all the good stuff out to "have a more broad appeal for maximum profit". Imo, this game puts the AAA nostalgia RPGs like Octopath and Bravely Default to shame. I think SE specifically could learn a thing or two from games like this.
This guy's recommendation for CrossCode was absolute $$$ so I will drop a sub and check out this game as well.
No random encounters, autoheal, guaranteed escape, no grinding, and no levels. No thanks, do not want.
The “best” game this year lol
There are seriously people who like random encounters? Why?...
@@tigriscallidus4477 breh, there are people that like grinding
I was worried this would be hyperbole - but you nailed describing what I look for in a RPG combat system. Hot take but I dislike Persona 5’s combat for a lot of the reasons you listed. Especially compared to games like SMTV and how that does it.
I can't agree with your reasoning on some of the issues with JRPGs.
Healing after combat is an important part of gameplay. You need to choose what resources you use to heal, which resources you want to save for battle, that stuff is important for the gameplay experience.
And yeah, JRPGs have a problem with level grinding, but being able to grind for levels is an important balance mechanic. It lets people who are struggling with a section go to an earlier section of the game and level up, so that they can use an over leveled party to crush the obstacle.
Taking away the ability to outclass the enemies like that is ripping part of the soul out of RPGs.
And you shouldn't be able to escape from enemy encounters easily. It removes all the risk from exploration. If you can only save at specific points, then it makes sense because you don't want players to find a new area, die immediately, and lose several hours of progress. If you can save at will, then escaping at will removes all sense of danger from exploration. It turns scary, dangerous monster filled caves from threats into locked chests that you need to come back for later.
If you want a game that solves the grinding problem better, look at something like Earthbound. If you out level the enemies in the area, you automatically defeat the enemies without the encounter. You still get the rewards though. It means you only need to think tactically in the fights that are actually a challenge, instead of needing to mash the attack button to kill off basic enemies.
I'm glad you enjoyed the game, but you've managed to convince me never to try it
I absolutely adore this game. Very good video, bud!
Sometimes quality of life changes are nice, but at the same time, this is optimising the fun out of games. As someone who started with Monster Hunter Freedom 2 and played up until Sunbreak, I saw it happen.
Bought this game today after eyeing it for months. I am watching videos like this to get a feel for it while it downloads. I grew up in the golden jrpg age and this game looks awesome.
Okay, I'm buying it. You convinced me, especially since I had no idea it had these QoL changes. I want to support developers who take initiave like this, too.
Yeah eventually I decided that I really wanted to cover the QOL part of the game since I know that's something that pushes a lot of people away from games like this.
@@mhswoocer Wait, people get pushed _away_ from QoL improvements?
@@TheTraveler980 Oh no, people get pushed away from a lack of QOL improvements lol.
I really love you channel
Found your channel through crosscode then got to know unsighted and i absolutely love 2d jrpgs which have tons to do and explore
They get really hard to find these days
Most of them are just too similar or lack the polish/feel and more importantly amount of content
Really glad to have been following you
These concepts that are complained about in this video I never seen as a hindrance. Managing your parties health makes me feel like I’m managing and actual band of traveling heroes. Everyone isn’t always going to be healthy. I would really love a game with persistent injuries and hunger and thirst that affect your party. It just adds a level of difficulty and management.
If you want a game like Kenshi or Outward with "hardcore" sim mechanics and lims getting dismembered, thats great, but its not "go into your inventory and use a potion to continue" levels of shallow.
Pokemon games are pretty whack when you are halfway down a route and then "back I go to the pokecentre and pokemart" for ten minutes
@@Meatiecheeksboy Sorry but this is only ever seen as a problem to casuals. Not a single one of the classic JRPG fans ever saw that as a problem.
Because it literally isn't. You think you do because you're too dominated by the Idea that everything should be concise and fast. which is the natural effect our modern society has on people. It makes everyone treat efficiency as a deity, and expect everything to be fast, short and concise. This is done on purpose to create the "customer" mindset.
Normal individuals learn to enjoy the fast and simple, so that they can finish using products soon and have to buy new ones.
This whole phenomenom has been studied since decades past. Even during the 90's scientists and doctors alerted people about this, but after the mid-2000's it simply vanished.
No one talks about this anymore, and society only got worse and worse in this aspect.
People have now convinced themselves that they cannot manage to play anything that lasts more than 30 hours, saying that it's because they got older. Which is not the reason.
The reason is that society has deteriorated the minds of the majority of people to the point that they can't mantain their attention on anything for long. That's what causes the sensation people have that long games, "are overstaying their welcome".
It's not the game that is getting boring for lasting too long, it's you who no longer have patience because you cannot mantain your attention on stories that lasts longer than normal anymore. That translates into mental fatigue which you interpret as you being bored.
@@bloody4558 While your response is undeniably pointing at a very true and real phenominon in the modern culture, there are plenty of long games and games that I put plenty of time into.
My 50 hours into Red Dead 2 feels like a breeze compared to
my 20 hours in the first two islands of Temtem for example.
Completely different again to talk about my 100 hours in Hunt Showdown, or 400 hours in Total War and Rocket League.
But if you asked me to pick which experienced feels like it drags, it can be slow, I'd say Temtem, because if you get too low and have no potions, you have to spend literally 4 or 5 minutes backtracking to a healing centre. My quality time in which I get to relax and play games is limited, and for a game to waste it is upsetting and insulting.
Breath of the Wild's autosaving feature where any death or game over would teleport you to immediately before the fight's beginning was one of my favourite features, compared to getting a game over on Final Fantasy 9 and losing 3 hours of progress because you forgot to save. Is forgetting to save a game mechanic? Is having to compulsively save over and over to try and avoid it "part of the fun"?
@@Meatiecheeksboy You thing you have a good point with your FFIX example but you don't. In old FF games you have save points.
Which makes it extremely hard to forget to save.
More importantly, the games had evolved to always add a save point before difficult fights.
So if you lose, you go back right before the boss fight. Which is essentially the same thing.
Auto saves come with their own problems too, such as saving states in situations in don't ever want it to save.
Which is why manual save is still a thing.
There are also games in which you can literally retry the fight on game over, making it unnecessary to save until you need to stop playing the game. all of which nullifies your specific argument
@@bloody4558 bruv, you can't tell me that in MS Saga a New Dawn, I lost 3 hours of progress about 45 hours into the game, and then was so upset at the idea of replaying that same 3 hours that I just gave up and never finished it.
"Just save lol" is not the correct response to QoL changes being asked for/appreciated
This game is amazing and deserves more attention so that hopefully the dev makes a sequel. It's just so good. Imagine a sequel with expanded upon mechanics.
This game is incredible, thank you very much for making a video of it, everyone should play this game
I don't really agree with the "cool drink" problem...or really any of these "problems" Chained Echos "fixed".
They're mechanics of the game and come with thier own "problems" and reasons for them, be they difficulty reasons or otherwise.
while auto-healing from your stockpile is great and streamlines things, sometimes a player may NOT want to heal..say because the game has a character/skill/mechanic that benefits from lower HP...or perhaps simply to save them for later.
Auto-healing takes away player decision..and some people don't care for that in thier ROLE-playing game.
don't get me wrong, not saying it's bad..it has its place much like the mechanics it's "fixing"...I am saying that these "problems" are not problems...they as part of thier games as CE's approach to them is; and when you've played games as long as I have, there is one truth when it comes to video games:
There is something for everyone..so enjoy what you like and don't play what you hate.
I don't comment very often, but this video was very well done. I appreciate the honest look at JRPGs and the honest review for Chained Echoes. I'm going to buy it, because it sounds like a delight. Subscribed for sure. :]
I just beat this game a week ago. On top of all the great things you just mentioned, Chained Echoes also doesn't suffer from bad writing like in many jrpgs I've played recently. You mentioned octopath traveler as an example, but I found several of the stories treated the player like they were 6 in the quality and nuance of the writing. I've yet to play a tales game with imo good writing and characters. The latest tales game actually had me skipping much of the dialogue and nothing of importance felt lost. Monster Hunter's writing is laughably irrelevant (but it's still an amazing game).
The characters in chained echoes are well written. It's no game of thrones or god of War, but the writing and duality did not make me want to cringe and skip the dialogue like most jrpgs these days.
Shoutout to Crosscode, my favorite indie rpg hands down. If you haven't played that, go do that then play chained echoes!
Thank god its not like game of thrones
Sounds me like you just don't like JRPGs if anything.
@@silkdust8069 I thought the first books were well written. Idk about the later ones and I didn't bother with the show.
@@Purpletrident I grew up on jrpgs. Chrono Trigger, Secret of Mana, and Final Fantasy 4,5,6 for example, did not have bad dialogue and characters. (Maybe FFV did, I haven't replayed that in a very long time). And my complaints were mainly focused on specifically the writing. As an example, I still liked the last Tales game for its combat. Just the dialogue sucked imo. Expand that to a bunch of other recent titles in particular.
@@Doominator10 the trails series has really great dialogue. Even trails of cold steel which first looks like a cliche one is great.
i played it on release. and it was amazing , has one of my favorite sountracks. Eddie Marianukroh will go down in history as one of the greats.
I an eagerly looking forward to what this person composes next. Chained Echoes for me was as good as it was because of this composer. I didnt care for the story, but every time Fractured Echoes played. Every damn time, the combat, the music. Was just flawless.
Then there's Those who resist Fate... its too beautiful.
Huh, this game was already on my wishlist. I'll probably buy it when I get the time to play it!
This was such a fantastic breakdown!! I have been telling anyone i know that games about Chained Echoes, now instead of struggking to explain what it is that i love about it so much, I am just going to share this video! Well done!
I had a similar name for the "Cool Drink Problem," I called it the Protect problem. In Final Fantasy XIV, you used to have to cast the spell Protect which would apply a damage reduction to your entire party. When someone died, the buff wore off so you had to recast it on them when they were resurrected mid-combat, it was essentially one of the first things you had to do when ressing someone along with healing them or else they'd just die again, that's how required Protect was. Thing is, while only one Job learned Protect normally, the other healers would be able to use it through the cross-class skill system, meaning you should always, always have Protect, and any healer that didn't was forced to go level a White Mage some to go get it. It was really early on but still. The producer of the dev team, Naoki Yoshida (or Yoshi-P) was once asked if they could just remove Protect and improve everyone's defenses or lower enemy attack to make up for it. His reply was that while they could do that, it "just didn't feel like Final Fantasy without it." They must have realized how stupid this was because they removed it in the next expansion and nobody really misses it.
I totally miss it. I liked the aspect. It was a micro ability but I hate how they took it away. I want flash back as well. Stupid removals.
I love this game. I saw kylian in the thumbnail and I knew I would love this video. This video made me subscribe
Ngl I'm halfway into the video and the game seems like it's not for me. Most of the things you list as negatives that the game fixes, are things I usually seek for in games. It's funny, but legit I think we just like and value different things in games.
Like I love grinding for hours in games. I like managing different aspects in games like resources. I love turn-based combat, because it's less stressful for me due to having all the time I need to think. I find random encounters fun.
Edit: Also you make it seem like a lot of stuff this game does is revolutionary, when they've already been done before by plenty of other games. And I find it a little amusing. Lol.