I think the (possible) death of Berdly could tie back to the theme that keeps popping up in deltarune of "if you were gone, would it even matter?" And since Toby Fox has told us there will only be one ending, maybe the weird route ending will show that everything feels different with him gone, even if the outcome was ultimately the same. Your absence matters and will still be a loss for the world, even if your actions don't change anything. Edit: I also just realized this would do the same subversive thing as the "kill or be killed" in undertale's pacifist ending with "your choices don't matter" lol. It could also be noted that the secret bosses tie into this too, since so far, they have each been cast away or forgotten. The obvious absence of Dess and Gaster as well. And actually, if the shadow crystals DO show a world without you, as that one theory states, that would connect too.
5:48 Small correction, but Noelle gets this spell regardless of having the Thorn ring or not if you go through the snowgrave route. The base cost of the spell is 200%, so its just not possible to use without the Trance status. I also feel like you never mentioned that it specifically says it does 'fatal damage.' Or how it successfully kills monsters if used on other enemies. Still loving these videos overall though! Very cute and informative, and helps people get into the theorycrafting without too much issue.
There's always been this...Idea in my head that you're *not* meant to do the Snowgrave route. And I don't mean that as in "Oh, It's mean and you shouldn't do it." Or it's the bad route. I mean it's as if the game didn't account for it, Like the idea that you actually *CAN* kill enemies is something that isn't meant to be possible. It comes to a head after you kill Berdly. He's a main character of this chapter, And his absence has sent the game into a "Limp mode", Where the game is trying to push you through the remainder of the chapter as fast as possible to get you to the end as quickly as it can. The only person who stands in your way is Spamton, Who's madness seems to disconnect him from the narrative. Notice nobody in the main story really... Mentions him in a meaningful to the main story way. He a bit of side content away from the main part of the chapter. The reason it's so easy to break into the castle and get the Neo body? All the other "Actors" have been shooed away, Only the character that has a major part to play: Queen, Shows up. And even then, Ralsei just... Tells her about the roaring from the start. No fights, No Mecha-Queen. No set-pieces at all after Berdly's death. Just the game trying to push you to the exit before something *else* fucks up.
being reminded that the addison is implied to be trapped in the ring is, odd when combined with the implication that Jevil and Spamton "Become" the item you obtain after beating them. Jevil's tail is the least explicit (Since spamton can complain about you having a full inventory in either state), but jevil is shown becoming the Jevilsknife in combat among other details (like showing Noelle the knife and her commenting that it smiled). I can't remember, can you sell the freezering?
The "unused" text also was replaced between chapters, with the one that Chapter 2 brought seemingly being a continuation of the one in Chapter 1. Maybe Dess has become lost in the "unused" files of the game's code and might act as a "scrapped" character that everyone seems ro remember for some reason. Its also implied this dissapearance has some connections to Gaster's being shattered across time and space, since he seems to also be trapped in "unused" code of the game
I think that Dess got into some Gaster stuff. My personal head canon is that her and Kris went to the bunker together. And Kris is the one who got out. That would also explain why Kris has a rumor connected to it.
A minor correction. Wearing the Thornring does not unlock Snowgrave for Noel. Rather, the trance status halves the TP cost of spells. Without the ring, Snowgrave costs 200tp, meaning you can't cast it. This can be proven by the screenshots of individuals attempting to snowgrave with a full TP bar without the ring equipped and it still not working. An otherwise excellent video, however.
dess's fate: 1: gaster'd. this isnt likely, since she wouldnt be "lost" if this was the case. 2: the depths. it makes sense for her to be here from a writing and physical evidence perspective. dess's plotline would crescendo during the roaring (coinciding with the event deltarune has been building to the whole time) as the barrier between the light world and a place darker than dark would finally let her free. 3: the knight. it would be cool
I help run a discord server that has a lot of UT/DR lore discussion and theorycrafting and I think your 101 is essential watching. It's easy to go deep in the weeds with Deltarune so it helps to take a step back and simply see what the lore says! Good stuff, Browniefox.
The first time I saw something about the snowgrave route, I didn't think it was a real thing you could do in the game. I thought it was just a creepypasta. But no. It is a real thing, and it's horrifying.
My brother hasn't played Deltarune himself yet (he's thinking about doing it eventually), but I found out recently that, due to me never shutting up about the game, he HAS watched all of LVoid's Deltarune meme compilation videos... Meaning he had to ask me what exactly happened to Dess. I'm assigning him these videos so he can get a handle on the lore - bless you for covering the basics clearly and in such a cute format!
something interesting about when noelle is forced to attack spamton neo, originally the color of the damage was blue, but it was changed to yellow- noelle's color. and the attack sound is one iceshock, not a snowgrave or anything, but there's three different damage numbers that come up, and the damage calculation is different than normal (but still equates to around the same as normal) something about three successive iceshocks like that is interesting i think
One detail im suprised you didnt mention is the beads in the hospital. Granted its not earth shattering info, but it does feel important enough to mention. Also as others have corrected, the thorn ring doesnt give noelle snowgrave. Snowgrave takes 200 TP and the thorn ring halves TP costs of ice magic. (Theres also the whole roman numerals 55 is LV thing but i can understand not mentioning that) Still, great video.
I think we have too little information to speculate on what's going on with Dess. Though, I do think she'll be relevant to Noelle's character, not the other way around. A lot of people think Noelle literally is the Angel, and I disagree. I think it's more likely that the weird route is our way of turning Noelle into a NEW Angel as a way of getting back at THE Angel.
Both topics are insanely interesting to cover. Most of my knowledge on both these topics are coming from you since I didn't do Snowgrave, nor do I deep dive into lore myself (just consume it from others), but a theory I can see being really messed up coming true is that if you force Noelle into doing Snowgrave, she will eventually find Dess alive, but not recognize her like she did Berdly, and use Snowgrave against Dess thinking she's an enemy. This outcome is debatable if you consider Kris taking Noelle's watch, thereby having Noelle consider the Dark World was real, which may have her rationalize that the things she's fighting aren't monsters, but our influence on her could easily sway her into doing so anyway, especially if we go by the logic of "opening up Dark Fountains makes the player's control stronger" as opposed to it being something the Knight is doing to destroy the world. Honestly, after Snowgrave, it looks pretty easy to conclude the player is the main antagonist of Deltarune. That would also mean the player opening dark fountains makes a lot more sense, as they're trying to achieve more power to have more influence on the world around them. The Roaring would, by extension, be the player trying to achieve something intentionally that goes against Kris's wishes and everyone around them purely because they want to achieve more power, to do the things they want, or as Flowey would say, "because you "had to"". I have no idea if any of that is accurate or already wrong, I'm just stream of consciousness-ing at this point. Man, I gotta catch up on my homework, this class is super interesting :)
Man, your channel is so underrated! It has it all- beautiful art, great theories with explanations that are easy to understand… I hope you get more views soon! Happy holidays!
i kinda suppose that whatever happened to dess was either similar/the same to what happened to gaster as theyre both (probably??) family members of major characters in the main story that are only mentioned very very occasionally and suddenly just stopped fucking existing and i could imagine shes been gone for a slightly shorter amount of time than gaster because yknow actual fucking main game dialog about them while gaster has been gone for a fuck ton of time and thus people who would most likely be closest to him like alphys and sans dont really talk about him and if dess DID get souped like gaster then who knows maybe shes who destroys your vessel? thats more of a “neat idea” than a proper theory but still something to think about
something people forget a lot is that gaster was around a very very long time ago, at least in undertale's world. unless sans is immortal or something, neither him nor alphys could have met him. i still think that they both definitely know about him, but things like the gaster blasters are probably from them finding gaster's old work also, we know that dess has been gone for around a little more than a decade, since noelle knew dess for a while, but was still very young when dess went missing. in the scene where she breaks down just from seeing the word december, she looks like she can't be any older than like 5
Thank you this special lecture just before holiday (heh) Professor. I legit totally forgot that Dess helped make the angel ornament, which makes me wonder if she will also have angel motifs like her little sister down the road. Though I'm personally of the belief that its too soon to have any concrete speculation when it comes to Dess.
I saw one theory that Noelle accidentally killed Dess with Snowgrave, that's how she knew the spell, she repressed the memory but Kris remembered and may have hid the body.
Huh, the homework question made me realize I never really thought about what I consider to be the case... I feel like her being stuck in a Dark World wouldn't be enough, as there isn't really any other code-weirdness related to them, as far as I know. Gaster seems to be the obvious pick, but for some reason I am moreso drawn to the person which discards your creation (who speaks similiarly to Chara in Japanese). Gaster seems to be interested in creating/experimenting on something. The other person wishes to destroy. Destroying a characters existence seems in line with that. Also there is the original Datamining warning in Undertale: "Part of this game's charm is the mystery of how many options or secrets there are. If you are reading this, please don't post this message or this information anywhere. Or doing secrets will become pointless. By the way, most of the seemingly unused text/files are used. If you can find the in-game context for an asset, you can show it off. But if you can't, it probably means you haven't looked hard enough. Anything truly unused I'll probably post myself, later. Living in a world like this, where people can simply cheat out the answers from the code... your impatience has REALLY damaged you, hasn't it?" Interesting, since it is directly referring to "unused text". And then they changed it to: ""Greetings. You have made yourself completely clear. Understood. I, your humble servant, will follow you to the utmost..." Which, again, sounds a lot like Chara. And is the only other instance in Deltarune/Undertale where the code speaks directly toward the reader, except for the unused dialogue in Deltarune. So I feel there is a strong connection. I don't really like the idea that Chara is important, as they haven't been established in Deltarune so far, at all. On the other hand, most of the information about them in Undertale was also relegated toward the end. Notable thoughts related to this: Toby recommended naming you yourself in Undertale. Some lines of Chara's dialogue: "My "human soul." My "determination." They were not mine, but YOURS." "With your guidance. I realized the purpose of my reincarnation. Power. Together, we eradicated the enemy and became strong. HP. ATK. DEF. GOLD. EXP. LV. Every time a number increases, that feeling... That's me. [inster player name]" Chara is supposed to be, your desire for strength, your desire to increase the game numbers. It also strongly reminds me of the Snowgrave Route. Focus on you being the source of power, becoming stronger being the purpose, eradicating the enemies. All very similiar. Again, I'd like for Deltarune to not just end up being Undertale #2 in that regard, but I just cannot ignore the parallels. So "Chara", or whatever part of you that is "Chara" somehow hid Dess in the code, is my current guess.
When people talk about the routes of deltarune, they're always mentioning how if you spare only, you'll get all recruits, and Berdly comes out unscathed, but if you fight everyone, Queen is sad because nubert and the others don't want to go to Castle Town, and Berdly lost an arm, but in my game, i spared everyone, i recruited everyone and i acted (only) to get queen's shield down during her battle, despite that, my Berdly still lost an arm, why is that? Was i just no fast enough?
Hm, not sure. During the Queen fight, when her shield wasn’t up, were you fighting her? I imagine not, but I ask anyway. That’s the only thing I can think of, bc I believe it’s that fight that determines what happens to berdly
@@browniefox7218 i'm like 98% sure that i only used the throwing action with Susie in order to free Berdly, but for some reason in the end he decided to free himself from the wires (even though i had already freed him) whilst Queen complained about not knowing what happened to her glass of acid, so maybe there is another special trigger in the code that might help the game decide what happens there. Well, either way, thanks for answering me.
I think I remember hearing that if you fight queen and berdly's arm gets damaged the same thing will happen again no matter what you do even if you try to save scum to avoid consequences. Maybe that has something to do with it? I could be wrong though.
@@deesnyder8201 Oh yeah, about that, i think, from what i've seen about this matter, according to halfbreadchaos, if you attack Berdly at any point during the route, his arm is gone, even though you were hitting his coaster car, not actually him, weird though, because whether or not he loses his arm, should be defined by your choices in the Queen battle, but i guess not.
I'll try to add something more theory-ish later, but that stuff at the beginning about how small the effects of your choices are reminds me of my first time playing chapter 1. basically, I forgot to warn like one or two guys (at least a Jigsawry I think) about Violence Mode Susie and the whole kingdom still showed up to kick the Fun Gang's butts. I'm still a little annoyed that the difference is so unforgiving. on the bright side, Lancer probably didn't have to try very hard to get them to give us(?) another chance. update: okay, what happened to Dess... well, the most obvious possibility is that she's the voice in the unused code. the best explanation for how she got there that I can think of is that she entered a Dark World (maybe Castle Town?) and fell into the Dark Fountain, leaving her trapped in what I've been calling the Dark Ocean, or Darker World. I speculate that the Dark Worlds already exist in this Dark Ocean, but everything in them is made of only darkness, having no names or physical forms until they combine with part of the Light World. back to Dess, I do have a bit more about this Idea. Basically, I think it's possible that all four of the Dreemur/Holiday kids have been involved with the Dark World before, (and that Ralsei looks like Asriel because Asriel was involved in creating Castle Town) and that *something* bad happened, Dess tried to stop it, and she didn't make it out in time. maybe she fell into the fountain like I mentioned before, maybe she ended up somewhere else. one random possibility I just thought of is that she might be closer than we thought. maybe whatever happened to her left her comatose, or split her mind from her body or something. some time later, Ralsei finds her unconscious/soulless body and brings her to Castle Town to keep her safe until he can find a way wake her up or whatever, and that that's why the castle's basement is blocked off, because that's where Dess is. though I'm not completely convinced of this possibility, it might be worth looking into. or she could always be the Knight I guess, but that doesn't seem to line up very well with the rest of what we know about either of them, at least to me.
I dont wanna be that guy... But dess is like the lighter equivalent of gaster. If Undertale is a dark world, than dess, who went into a lab like place and disappeared, seems very similar. I suppose we'll find out when asriel comes back to the dreemurr household, as he was a closer friend of dess than kris was.
I kinda think Dess did disappear. Could she still be dead? Maybe. But nobody's really implied that she's definitely dead. I also assumed that maybe the weird route in Chapter 2 is directly inspired by whatever happened to her. With that in mind, my interpretation of the order of events is: Kris, Noelle, and Dess are in the woods during winter, maybe just to explore like usual, or maybe for some other reason that we would have no way of knowing yet. While they're out, a blizzard comes through, and they're lost in the woods. Dess trudges off to try and find help while leaving Noelle and Kris somewhere safe, maybe somewhere unimportant like a small overhang, or maybe the exact opposite like: inside the bunker. Either way, I think Dess doesn't make it back, either because she lost her way, or because she was trapped in a dark world or something more CRAZY like that. Asgore, as the chief of police and Kris' father, goes out searching, finds Kris and Noelle, but not Dess. In a panic, and desperate to get his own child to safety, he takes the two home. By the time the blizzard has stopped, he and some other people return to the woods to try and find Dess, but have no such luck. That failure to rescue Dess is interpreted by Mayor Holiday as cowardice, and she retains a grudge against Asgore for not having saved her daughter. That's what creates the rift between the Dreemurr and Holiday families. Obviously this is just interpolating what we know for sure, but I don't think it's tooo far of a stretch to assume at least some of this is true. Asgore's removal from the police force is definitely important. It might not be related to Dess at all, but seeing as the Mayor is Dess' mother, I would wager that it does have to do with her. And we know Asgore to be a softhearted character, especially from the pacifist endings of Undertale (I know Undertale isn't canon, but the characters that have come back are unlikely to have made a huge personality shift). His nature is what makes me think he would've prioritized getting the two children he DID find to safety before searching for the other one. It also crossed my mind that maybe Kris and Noelle were separated from Dess by accident, and Dess instead went missing while searching for them. In this case, I imagined that the weird route's implications about Kris' influence on Noelle would come in. Maybe they made Noelle take shelter somewhere with them, or return to town when they found the way instead of looking for Dess. This would have been Kris' influence, not the player like in the weird route, but from Noelle's point of view, the two are one and the same. Anyway, I doubt very many people in Hometown know what happened to Dess entirely. Noelle and the rest of the Holiday family clearly don't, Asgore most likely doesn't (AND the remainder of what would've been the police force at the time), and Asriel most likely doesn't either. I bring up Asriel because he technically could have been present for both of the ideas I presented, but we just don't know enough about young adult Asriel to know what he would have done if he WERE present. Kris MAY know what happened, but it will be a while before we figure that out. So yeah, that's about, see ya.
@2:44-.-Actually, teacher, backtracking is completely optional. Source: Weird Run Secrets and Misconceptions in Deltarune chapter 2 (HalfBreadChaos, etal.) th-cam.com/video/-F1N9aOjc7g/w-d-xo.htmlsi=7bw8oIT3jCHp4bx1
Do I misunderstand something? From what I can tell the video only says that you don't have to speak to the door, it doesn't say that you don't have to backtrack to freeze everyone. Saying "you have to freeze every enemy in each area" kinda implies that you have to.
Why do you call the genocide route in undertale a no mercy run? In undertale there are unique events that happen if you never give mercy but also don't hunt monsters down
(NO SPOILLERS) Deoxxyn: Deoxxyn is a deltarune fan game where tp is replaced with insanity and if it hits 100%, you go insane. Grazing lowers tp instead of raising it. It's like the minimum you need to say to let others what deoxxyn is at basics but i'll explain more(I may be wrong about this info so take it with a grain of salt, or multiple). You play as a human named Alexa and she's a deoxxyn victim. deoxxyn victims are people who are somewhat influenced by deoxxyns even if they aren't there. Deoxxyns disguise themselves as other humans and make "friends" with other humans while withering away at their insanity. Even after they leave, the effected human still experiences the insanity but they won't lose more and can experience "trap phases". A trap phase is where a person loses control of themselves and usually commits acts of violence until the trap phases ends by either it ending normally, it ends early because of an outside force and lets them regain control, or the victim themselves regains control. Trap phase lengths and the amount of aggression can change with each deoxxyn victim and there aren't many ways to stop a deoxxyn victim without at least some consequences. At the start of each combat(uses deltarune button system) you actions are different from normal deltarune. Your fight button is replaced with act and your act button is replaced with "skills". Skills are helpful to maintain yourself in combat by either reducing your insanity or using some first aid to patch yourself up, and all skills (to my knowledge) don't require any tp and all skills are unlocked by story progression, plus be careful that all skills have a cooldown that lasts multiple turns so you can't spam them. When you go insane by your tp bar hitting max, at the start of your turn, your turn is skipped and auto fights and attacks an enemy. At the start of the enemies turn, orange leaves will fall from the top of the battle box, hitting one allows you to regain full control. There are 4 endings to this game. Sane, pacifist, neutral, and genocide. The last 2 self explain themselves but the difference between pacifist and sane is when doing a sane run, you can't go insane once(there is an item in the game that can't be used manually but if you go insane and have it on you, it sets your insanity to 0% and consumes the item and I think it gives you a second chance at sane run if you didn't go insane before) while pacifist is going insane but managing to spare mostly everyone. There is also a secret boss but you can only start the boss in the last area. In each area there will be a boss fight and a wave battle. In all the area the boss battle happens before the wave battle, but in the last area the wave battle is before the boss battle. If you wish to fight the secret boss, you should try finding him after completing the wave battle because it's a lot easier to tell people because i'm not specifying anything plus i can't because no spoilers.
Ok so basically: In chapter tau of deltarune among us crewmate proceeds to hit everyone with saygexgrave and everyone dies except 3 Sully, Apyr, and 🦤 As the plot advances Among us crewmate makes a dark fountain in the th-cam.com/video/0O6II_YWRSo/w-d-xo.htmlsi=nwX1hjDvDn-DlqBt while continuing to hit the griddy of ohio grimace shake gen alpha land (my brain is rotting writing this) sully dies while this happens and yesod from lingbary of runny appears and makes the void real. The end :3
I have a theory as to why kris does what he does when he gets home in chapter 2. I think the reason kris created the dark fountain is to have the authorities know about it that could be the reason why they may have slashed toriel´s tires so that the police would be there because other wise they wouldn´t be looking for the knight otherwise their investigation wouldn´t start early or even at all that could also be why they make the dark fountain even if the player went with the snowgrave route so that someone would look into it and that could also be why they opened the door so that if the police was staking outside they would notice that some sort of smoke is there and imediatly investigate it so that undyne and or maybe napsteblook or asgore would see it and be transported into the dark world so that they could hear from ralsei about the prophecy and watnot so the knight will have to be more carefull and on their toes. Also the reason the police station being closed in that image of presumably chapter 4 could be them investigating on who the knight is.
I don't really like this interpretation, as it implies that Kris wants to warn others about the dangers of the Dark Worlds by opening another Dark World. That'd be like if you tried to warn people of the dangers of wildfires by setting a forest on fire. It also doesn't explain why Kris turned on the TV before opening the fountain. If they were just trying to warn the police, they wouldn't need to do that.
the thorn ring actually doesn’t give Noelle Snowgrave, it just gives her the ability to use it, halving the tp cost from 200 to 100
I think the (possible) death of Berdly could tie back to the theme that keeps popping up in deltarune of "if you were gone, would it even matter?" And since Toby Fox has told us there will only be one ending, maybe the weird route ending will show that everything feels different with him gone, even if the outcome was ultimately the same. Your absence matters and will still be a loss for the world, even if your actions don't change anything.
Edit: I also just realized this would do the same subversive thing as the "kill or be killed" in undertale's pacifist ending with "your choices don't matter" lol. It could also be noted that the secret bosses tie into this too, since so far, they have each been cast away or forgotten. The obvious absence of Dess and Gaster as well. And actually, if the shadow crystals DO show a world without you, as that one theory states, that would connect too.
I just noticed the conspiracy board gets more ridiculous every video. That’s hilarious.
Gaster/Mystery man also has a hat
By chapter 5 it will be nothing but red string
Perfect representation of the current state of the Deltarune fandom
I can't wait to see the board after chapter 3 and 4 come out 😂
5:48 Small correction, but Noelle gets this spell regardless of having the Thorn ring or not if you go through the snowgrave route. The base cost of the spell is 200%, so its just not possible to use without the Trance status.
I also feel like you never mentioned that it specifically says it does 'fatal damage.' Or how it successfully kills monsters if used on other enemies.
Still loving these videos overall though! Very cute and informative, and helps people get into the theorycrafting without too much issue.
THEORY: the “big enough for a large person to fit inside” is a reference to how giga queen’s body is in the middle of the castle.
There's always been this...Idea in my head that you're *not* meant to do the Snowgrave route.
And I don't mean that as in "Oh, It's mean and you shouldn't do it." Or it's the bad route. I mean it's as if the game didn't account for it, Like the idea that you actually *CAN* kill enemies is something that isn't meant to be possible.
It comes to a head after you kill Berdly. He's a main character of this chapter, And his absence has sent the game into a "Limp mode", Where the game is trying to push you through the remainder of the chapter as fast as possible to get you to the end as quickly as it can.
The only person who stands in your way is Spamton, Who's madness seems to disconnect him from the narrative. Notice nobody in the main story really... Mentions him in a meaningful to the main story way. He a bit of side content away from the main part of the chapter.
The reason it's so easy to break into the castle and get the Neo body? All the other "Actors" have been shooed away, Only the character that has a major part to play: Queen, Shows up. And even then, Ralsei just... Tells her about the roaring from the start.
No fights, No Mecha-Queen. No set-pieces at all after Berdly's death. Just the game trying to push you to the exit before something *else* fucks up.
it definitely fits the "gamebreaking glitches that Noelle tends to stumble into" thing
Somebody once suggested that the Snowgrave route would end with the player getting stuck in an intentional softlock.
being reminded that the addison is implied to be trapped in the ring is, odd when combined with the implication that Jevil and Spamton "Become" the item you obtain after beating them. Jevil's tail is the least explicit (Since spamton can complain about you having a full inventory in either state), but jevil is shown becoming the Jevilsknife in combat among other details (like showing Noelle the knife and her commenting that it smiled). I can't remember, can you sell the freezering?
Pretty sure by the point you have the freezering there’s no shop
Seam, Aborted Snowgrave Swatch @@sdantaray2
@@sdantaray2maybe to seam?
The "unused" text also was replaced between chapters, with the one that Chapter 2 brought seemingly being a continuation of the one in Chapter 1. Maybe Dess has become lost in the "unused" files of the game's code and might act as a "scrapped" character that everyone seems ro remember for some reason. Its also implied this dissapearance has some connections to Gaster's being shattered across time and space, since he seems to also be trapped in "unused" code of the game
I think that Dess got into some Gaster stuff. My personal head canon is that her and Kris went to the bunker together. And Kris is the one who got out. That would also explain why Kris has a rumor connected to it.
A minor correction. Wearing the Thornring does not unlock Snowgrave for Noel. Rather, the trance status halves the TP cost of spells. Without the ring, Snowgrave costs 200tp, meaning you can't cast it. This can be proven by the screenshots of individuals attempting to snowgrave with a full TP bar without the ring equipped and it still not working. An otherwise excellent video, however.
dess's fate:
1: gaster'd. this isnt likely, since she wouldnt be "lost" if this was the case.
2: the depths. it makes sense for her to be here from a writing and physical evidence perspective. dess's plotline would crescendo during the roaring (coinciding with the event deltarune has been building to the whole time) as the barrier between the light world and a place darker than dark would finally let her free.
3: the knight. it would be cool
I help run a discord server that has a lot of UT/DR lore discussion and theorycrafting and I think your 101 is essential watching. It's easy to go deep in the weeds with Deltarune so it helps to take a step back and simply see what the lore says! Good stuff, Browniefox.
The first time I saw something about the snowgrave route, I didn't think it was a real thing you could do in the game. I thought it was just a creepypasta. But no. It is a real thing, and it's horrifying.
My brother hasn't played Deltarune himself yet (he's thinking about doing it eventually), but I found out recently that, due to me never shutting up about the game, he HAS watched all of LVoid's Deltarune meme compilation videos... Meaning he had to ask me what exactly happened to Dess.
I'm assigning him these videos so he can get a handle on the lore - bless you for covering the basics clearly and in such a cute format!
something interesting about when noelle is forced to attack spamton neo, originally the color of the damage was blue, but it was changed to yellow- noelle's color. and the attack sound is one iceshock, not a snowgrave or anything, but there's three different damage numbers that come up, and the damage calculation is different than normal (but still equates to around the same as normal)
something about three successive iceshocks like that is interesting i think
One detail im suprised you didnt mention is the beads in the hospital.
Granted its not earth shattering info, but it does feel important enough to mention.
Also as others have corrected, the thorn ring doesnt give noelle snowgrave.
Snowgrave takes 200 TP and the thorn ring halves TP costs of ice magic.
(Theres also the whole roman numerals 55 is LV thing but i can understand not mentioning that)
Still, great video.
I think we have too little information to speculate on what's going on with Dess. Though, I do think she'll be relevant to Noelle's character, not the other way around.
A lot of people think Noelle literally is the Angel, and I disagree. I think it's more likely that the weird route is our way of turning Noelle into a NEW Angel as a way of getting back at THE Angel.
very nice pog im fully convinced dess has something to do with gaster at this point.
i love Starlo in the background
Both topics are insanely interesting to cover. Most of my knowledge on both these topics are coming from you since I didn't do Snowgrave, nor do I deep dive into lore myself (just consume it from others), but a theory I can see being really messed up coming true is that if you force Noelle into doing Snowgrave, she will eventually find Dess alive, but not recognize her like she did Berdly, and use Snowgrave against Dess thinking she's an enemy.
This outcome is debatable if you consider Kris taking Noelle's watch, thereby having Noelle consider the Dark World was real, which may have her rationalize that the things she's fighting aren't monsters, but our influence on her could easily sway her into doing so anyway, especially if we go by the logic of "opening up Dark Fountains makes the player's control stronger" as opposed to it being something the Knight is doing to destroy the world.
Honestly, after Snowgrave, it looks pretty easy to conclude the player is the main antagonist of Deltarune. That would also mean the player opening dark fountains makes a lot more sense, as they're trying to achieve more power to have more influence on the world around them. The Roaring would, by extension, be the player trying to achieve something intentionally that goes against Kris's wishes and everyone around them purely because they want to achieve more power, to do the things they want, or as Flowey would say, "because you "had to"".
I have no idea if any of that is accurate or already wrong, I'm just stream of consciousness-ing at this point. Man, I gotta catch up on my homework, this class is super interesting :)
Why nobody talking about the new starlo paper hidden
dess knight gang
-tbh i don’t have much hope for it happening but she’s by far my favorite candidate sooo..-
Man, your channel is so underrated! It has it all- beautiful art, great theories with explanations that are easy to understand… I hope you get more views soon! Happy holidays!
love this series
This holiday was cold like some kind of snowgrave
I do not currently have a theory about Dess, so have this comment for the purpose of algorithmic benefit!
i kinda suppose that whatever happened to dess was either similar/the same to what happened to gaster
as theyre both (probably??) family members of major characters in the main story that are only mentioned very very occasionally and suddenly just
stopped fucking existing
and i could imagine shes been gone for a slightly shorter amount of time than gaster because
yknow
actual fucking main game dialog about them
while gaster has been gone for a fuck ton of time and thus people who would most likely be closest to him like alphys and sans dont really talk about him
and if dess DID get souped like gaster
then
who knows
maybe shes who destroys your vessel?
thats more of a “neat idea” than a proper theory but still
something to think about
something people forget a lot is that gaster was around a very very long time ago, at least in undertale's world. unless sans is immortal or something, neither him nor alphys could have met him. i still think that they both definitely know about him, but things like the gaster blasters are probably from them finding gaster's old work
also, we know that dess has been gone for around a little more than a decade, since noelle knew dess for a while, but was still very young when dess went missing. in the scene where she breaks down just from seeing the word december, she looks like she can't be any older than like 5
Thank you this special lecture just before holiday (heh) Professor. I legit totally forgot that Dess helped make the angel ornament, which makes me wonder if she will also have angel motifs like her little sister down the road. Though I'm personally of the belief that its too soon to have any concrete speculation when it comes to Dess.
I suspect Gaster might have something to do with Dess' disappearance.
I saw one theory that Noelle accidentally killed Dess with Snowgrave, that's how she knew the spell, she repressed the memory but Kris remembered and may have hid the body.
omori
Dess has run away to go be with her cuddle buddy Asriel who's in colleg.
Dess is currently having tea with gaster in the void.
Starlo my lad!
Huh, the homework question made me realize I never really thought about what I consider to be the case...
I feel like her being stuck in a Dark World wouldn't be enough, as there isn't really any other code-weirdness related to them, as far as I know.
Gaster seems to be the obvious pick, but for some reason I am moreso drawn to the person which discards your creation (who speaks similiarly to Chara in Japanese). Gaster seems to be interested in creating/experimenting on something. The other person wishes to destroy. Destroying a characters existence seems in line with that.
Also there is the original Datamining warning in Undertale:
"Part of this game's charm is the mystery of how many options or secrets there are. If you are reading this, please don't post this message or this information anywhere. Or doing secrets will become pointless. By the way, most of the seemingly unused text/files are used. If you can find the in-game context for an asset, you can show it off. But if you can't, it probably means you haven't looked hard enough. Anything truly unused I'll probably post myself, later. Living in a world like this, where people can simply cheat out the answers from the code... your impatience has REALLY damaged you, hasn't it?"
Interesting, since it is directly referring to "unused text".
And then they changed it to:
""Greetings. You have made yourself completely clear. Understood. I, your humble servant, will follow you to the utmost..."
Which, again, sounds a lot like Chara. And is the only other instance in Deltarune/Undertale where the code speaks directly toward the reader, except for the unused dialogue in Deltarune. So I feel there is a strong connection.
I don't really like the idea that Chara is important, as they haven't been established in Deltarune so far, at all. On the other hand, most of the information about them in Undertale was also relegated toward the end.
Notable thoughts related to this:
Toby recommended naming you yourself in Undertale.
Some lines of Chara's dialogue:
"My "human soul."
My "determination."
They were not mine, but YOURS."
"With your guidance.
I realized the purpose of my reincarnation.
Power.
Together, we eradicated the enemy and became strong.
HP. ATK. DEF. GOLD. EXP. LV.
Every time a number increases, that feeling...
That's me.
[inster player name]"
Chara is supposed to be, your desire for strength, your desire to increase the game numbers.
It also strongly reminds me of the Snowgrave Route. Focus on you being the source of power, becoming stronger being the purpose, eradicating the enemies. All very similiar.
Again, I'd like for Deltarune to not just end up being Undertale #2 in that regard, but I just cannot ignore the parallels.
So "Chara", or whatever part of you that is "Chara" somehow hid Dess in the code, is my current guess.
If school was like Browniefox videos I'd be happy, smart and have perfect attendance! I guess that's because we have such an amazing teacher!
I thought i clicked on a new theory
But thanks for the recap anyway 😊
Oh sorry! This is part of a series where I go over the basics haha, but glad you liked the recap :D
Your narration is very entertaining, even though I’ve heard about Snowgrave countless times I still had fun listening to your own telling of it
When people talk about the routes of deltarune, they're always mentioning how if you spare only, you'll get all recruits, and Berdly comes out unscathed, but if you fight everyone, Queen is sad because nubert and the others don't want to go to Castle Town, and Berdly lost an arm, but in my game, i spared everyone, i recruited everyone and i acted (only) to get queen's shield down during her battle, despite that, my Berdly still lost an arm, why is that? Was i just no fast enough?
Hm, not sure. During the Queen fight, when her shield wasn’t up, were you fighting her? I imagine not, but I ask anyway. That’s the only thing I can think of, bc I believe it’s that fight that determines what happens to berdly
@@browniefox7218 i'm like 98% sure that i only used the throwing action with Susie in order to free Berdly, but for some reason in the end he decided to free himself from the wires (even though i had already freed him) whilst Queen complained about not knowing what happened to her glass of acid, so maybe there is another special trigger in the code that might help the game decide what happens there. Well, either way, thanks for answering me.
I think I remember hearing that if you fight queen and berdly's arm gets damaged the same thing will happen again no matter what you do even if you try to save scum to avoid consequences. Maybe that has something to do with it? I could be wrong though.
@@deesnyder8201 Oh yeah, about that, i think, from what i've seen about this matter, according to halfbreadchaos, if you attack Berdly at any point during the route, his arm is gone, even though you were hitting his coaster car, not actually him, weird though, because whether or not he loses his arm, should be defined by your choices in the Queen battle, but i guess not.
@@dud3g4mer18 Really? I never thought it worked like that. I have some time to kill so I'm gonna try it out myself real quick.
I'd like to state that it doesn't make sense for the closet dialogue to refer to Berdly as it shows up even if you're a total pacifist.
I'll try to add something more theory-ish later, but that stuff at the beginning about how small the effects of your choices are reminds me of my first time playing chapter 1.
basically, I forgot to warn like one or two guys (at least a Jigsawry I think) about Violence Mode Susie and the whole kingdom still showed up to kick the Fun Gang's butts. I'm still a little annoyed that the difference is so unforgiving. on the bright side, Lancer probably didn't have to try very hard to get them to give us(?) another chance.
update: okay, what happened to Dess...
well, the most obvious possibility is that she's the voice in the unused code. the best explanation for how she got there that I can think of is that she entered a Dark World (maybe Castle Town?) and fell into the Dark Fountain, leaving her trapped in what I've been calling the Dark Ocean, or Darker World. I speculate that the Dark Worlds already exist in this Dark Ocean, but everything in them is made of only darkness, having no names or physical forms until they combine with part of the Light World.
back to Dess, I do have a bit more about this Idea.
Basically, I think it's possible that all four of the Dreemur/Holiday kids have been involved with the Dark World before, (and that Ralsei looks like Asriel because Asriel was involved in creating Castle Town) and that *something* bad happened, Dess tried to stop it, and she didn't make it out in time. maybe she fell into the fountain like I mentioned before, maybe she ended up somewhere else.
one random possibility I just thought of is that she might be closer than we thought. maybe whatever happened to her left her comatose, or split her mind from her body or something. some time later, Ralsei finds her unconscious/soulless body and brings her to Castle Town to keep her safe until he can find a way wake her up or whatever, and that that's why the castle's basement is blocked off, because that's where Dess is. though I'm not completely convinced of this possibility, it might be worth looking into.
or she could always be the Knight I guess, but that doesn't seem to line up very well with the rest of what we know about either of them, at least to me.
Very chill and entertaining. These topics have so much potential in the future. Have a merry Xmas!
Dess got drafted to the damn this lore go caazy!
Lore of Holiday Special: Snowgrave and Dess - Deltarune Theory Basics momentum 100
I dont wanna be that guy...
But dess is like the lighter equivalent of gaster.
If Undertale is a dark world, than dess, who went into a lab like place and disappeared, seems very similar.
I suppose we'll find out when asriel comes back to the dreemurr household, as he was a closer friend of dess than kris was.
This game resembles an NES game.
Banger video, teach.
there will be no other endings. no matter what you do, in the end, "Your choices dont matter."
One ending doesn't mean there can't be multiple path that leads to it
I feel like Dess is the Knight.
What if the player gets more control over a character as their exp/LOVE increases? Like how Frisk became more like Chara as they killed more monsters
🎻♨️
Santa gaster!!!
Dess nuts
Dess is probably human
I kinda think Dess did disappear. Could she still be dead? Maybe. But nobody's really implied that she's definitely dead. I also assumed that maybe the weird route in Chapter 2 is directly inspired by whatever happened to her.
With that in mind, my interpretation of the order of events is: Kris, Noelle, and Dess are in the woods during winter, maybe just to explore like usual, or maybe for some other reason that we would have no way of knowing yet. While they're out, a blizzard comes through, and they're lost in the woods. Dess trudges off to try and find help while leaving Noelle and Kris somewhere safe, maybe somewhere unimportant like a small overhang, or maybe the exact opposite like: inside the bunker. Either way, I think Dess doesn't make it back, either because she lost her way, or because she was trapped in a dark world or something more CRAZY like that. Asgore, as the chief of police and Kris' father, goes out searching, finds Kris and Noelle, but not Dess. In a panic, and desperate to get his own child to safety, he takes the two home. By the time the blizzard has stopped, he and some other people return to the woods to try and find Dess, but have no such luck. That failure to rescue Dess is interpreted by Mayor Holiday as cowardice, and she retains a grudge against Asgore for not having saved her daughter. That's what creates the rift between the Dreemurr and Holiday families.
Obviously this is just interpolating what we know for sure, but I don't think it's tooo far of a stretch to assume at least some of this is true.
Asgore's removal from the police force is definitely important. It might not be related to Dess at all, but seeing as the Mayor is Dess' mother, I would wager that it does have to do with her. And we know Asgore to be a softhearted character, especially from the pacifist endings of Undertale (I know Undertale isn't canon, but the characters that have come back are unlikely to have made a huge personality shift). His nature is what makes me think he would've prioritized getting the two children he DID find to safety before searching for the other one.
It also crossed my mind that maybe Kris and Noelle were separated from Dess by accident, and Dess instead went missing while searching for them. In this case, I imagined that the weird route's implications about Kris' influence on Noelle would come in. Maybe they made Noelle take shelter somewhere with them, or return to town when they found the way instead of looking for Dess. This would have been Kris' influence, not the player like in the weird route, but from Noelle's point of view, the two are one and the same.
Anyway, I doubt very many people in Hometown know what happened to Dess entirely. Noelle and the rest of the Holiday family clearly don't, Asgore most likely doesn't (AND the remainder of what would've been the police force at the time), and Asriel most likely doesn't either. I bring up Asriel because he technically could have been present for both of the ideas I presented, but we just don't know enough about young adult Asriel to know what he would have done if he WERE present. Kris MAY know what happened, but it will be a while before we figure that out.
So yeah, that's about, see ya.
This homework is awesome, I get to do creative writing kind of
Plushie when?
What about flawed pacifist and aborted genocide routes do you think those will also happen in DT?
@2:44-.-Actually, teacher, backtracking is completely optional.
Source: Weird Run Secrets and Misconceptions in Deltarune chapter 2 (HalfBreadChaos, etal.) th-cam.com/video/-F1N9aOjc7g/w-d-xo.htmlsi=7bw8oIT3jCHp4bx1
Oh no way! I had no idea
Do I misunderstand something? From what I can tell the video only says that you don't have to speak to the door, it doesn't say that you don't have to backtrack to freeze everyone.
Saying "you have to freeze every enemy in each area" kinda implies that you have to.
@@Lysvsyl-.-I probably misinterpreted it, I can send myself doing that. This makes more sense.
Why do you call the genocide route in undertale a no mercy run? In undertale there are unique events that happen if you never give mercy but also don't hunt monsters down
It’s from a misconception from when I was fifteen but that still kind of rattles around my brain that genocide is compares it to real world events
It's official name is "No Mercy".
Ceroba is on her own Snowgrave route, courtesy of Chujin. She blindly does what she's told, and is absurdly strong for some reason...
(NO SPOILLERS)
Deoxxyn:
Deoxxyn is a deltarune fan game where tp is replaced with insanity and if it hits 100%, you go insane. Grazing lowers tp instead of raising it. It's like the minimum you need to say to let others what deoxxyn is at basics but i'll explain more(I may be wrong about this info so take it with a grain of salt, or multiple). You play as a human named Alexa and she's a deoxxyn victim. deoxxyn victims are people who are somewhat influenced by deoxxyns even if they aren't there. Deoxxyns disguise themselves as other humans and make "friends" with other humans while withering away at their insanity. Even after they leave, the effected human still experiences the insanity but they won't lose more and can experience "trap phases". A trap phase is where a person loses control of themselves and usually commits acts of violence until the trap phases ends by either it ending normally, it ends early because of an outside force and lets them regain control, or the victim themselves regains control. Trap phase lengths and the amount of aggression can change with each deoxxyn victim and there aren't many ways to stop a deoxxyn victim without at least some consequences. At the start of each combat(uses deltarune button system) you actions are different from normal deltarune. Your fight button is replaced with act and your act button is replaced with "skills". Skills are helpful to maintain yourself in combat by either reducing your insanity or using some first aid to patch yourself up, and all skills (to my knowledge) don't require any tp and all skills are unlocked by story progression, plus be careful that all skills have a cooldown that lasts multiple turns so you can't spam them. When you go insane by your tp bar hitting max, at the start of your turn, your turn is skipped and auto fights and attacks an enemy. At the start of the enemies turn, orange leaves will fall from the top of the battle box, hitting one allows you to regain full control. There are 4 endings to this game. Sane, pacifist, neutral, and genocide. The last 2 self explain themselves but the difference between pacifist and sane is when doing a sane run, you can't go insane once(there is an item in the game that can't be used manually but if you go insane and have it on you, it sets your insanity to 0% and consumes the item and I think it gives you a second chance at sane run if you didn't go insane before) while pacifist is going insane but managing to spare mostly everyone.
There is also a secret boss but you can only start the boss in the last area. In each area there will be a boss fight and a wave battle. In all the area the boss battle happens before the wave battle, but in the last area the wave battle is before the boss battle. If you wish to fight the secret boss, you should try finding him after completing the wave battle because it's a lot easier to tell people because i'm not specifying anything plus i can't because no spoilers.
B❤
w
Ok so basically:
In chapter tau of deltarune among us crewmate proceeds to hit everyone with saygexgrave and everyone dies except 3
Sully, Apyr, and 🦤
As the plot advances Among us crewmate makes a dark fountain in the th-cam.com/video/0O6II_YWRSo/w-d-xo.htmlsi=nwX1hjDvDn-DlqBt while continuing to hit the griddy of ohio grimace shake gen alpha land (my brain is rotting writing this) sully dies while this happens and yesod from lingbary of runny appears and makes the void real.
The end :3
:
Great video teach. But small correction. Dess uses a Wiffle Ball Bat, not a Baseball Bat.
Yeah, I said she uses a wiffle bat. She’s usually portrayed with a baseball bat tho :)
i think Dess went into the first ever dark world and since they dont have a human soul they cant get out.
I have a theory as to why kris does what he does when he gets home in chapter 2.
I think the reason kris created the dark fountain is to have the authorities know about it that could be the reason why they may have slashed toriel´s tires so that the police would be there because other wise they wouldn´t be looking for the knight otherwise their investigation wouldn´t start early or even at all that could also be why they make the dark fountain even if the player went with the snowgrave route so that someone would look into it and that could also be why they opened the door so that if the police was staking outside they would notice that some sort of smoke is there and imediatly investigate it so that undyne and or maybe napsteblook or asgore would see it and be transported into the dark world so that they could hear from ralsei about the prophecy and watnot so the knight will have to be more carefull and on their toes. Also the reason the police station being closed in that image of presumably chapter 4 could be them investigating on who the knight is.
Kris uses they them pronouns
I don't really like this interpretation, as it implies that Kris wants to warn others about the dangers of the Dark Worlds by opening another Dark World. That'd be like if you tried to warn people of the dangers of wildfires by setting a forest on fire.
It also doesn't explain why Kris turned on the TV before opening the fountain. If they were just trying to warn the police, they wouldn't need to do that.
Hey how can i join your server
Think theres still an active link on a community post - the one w the holiday family
@@browniefox7218 thank you
@@browniefox7218 I found it
I feel like Kris accidentally killed Dess and hid her body in the bunker.
Dess is trans and her mom didn't like that.