Did Disciples Die Saying Jesus Rose? (with Mike Winger)
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 21 ก.ย. 2024
- Mike Winger thinks that if he can show that the eye-witnesses to the resurrection also endured great suffering as a result of their claims, then he have good reason to think that they were being sincere. They really did believe they saw Jesus after He had risen from the grave and this made them willing to suffer and even die for Jesus.
Given such a strong tradition, it should be easy to demonstrate this, right? Does Mike succeed?
Paulogia Jesus Resurrection Playlist
• Are there authentic se...
Mike Winger - Were They Really Persecuted for Saying Jesus Rose?
• How their martyrdom he...
"For the Bible Tells Me So" Green Screen Animation
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Can you imagine how terrible it must have been for James, being the brother of Jesus. All his life he had to hear, "Why can't you be like your brother, he's perfect you know?"
He probably wasn't perfect though that's just what the stories say. Look at the infancy gospel of Thomas Jesus trait up kills people. Which is why Christians probably dont like that gospel lol
“At least I never got arrested and punished for treason against the Empire.”
imagine being a neighbour, "she's immaculate that mary" "yeah, but the husband, lawks what a sucker"
@@HarryNicNicholas 😂
Literal “Golden child” lol
Stuff like this is just depressing. He honestly seems to think that he's giving us gold here, when it actually pretty pathetic. This is what shocked me when I started questioning my beliefs and looked to the apologists for help: "Really? That's it? WHY ARE YOU SMILING?! THAT'S TERRIBLE!"
ERRATA -
- McDowell's book talks about the scholarly consensus of 2 Timothy, not 2 Peter. My notes were off, and I should have caught that when I put up the page. Apologies. (Though 2 Peter is generally considered a forgery.)
- at 21:10 the reference listed is I Corinthians 12:2-3, instead of II Corinthians 12:2-3
- at one point, I repeat a sentence about Nero. oops.
NT forgeries are Hebrews, both Timothy,both Peter, both I John and II John, Jude,Colosians, and about half the epistles of Paul.
@Bob Smith After intense painstaking research, most scholars agree that the cloth came from Palestine long ago, but the image was added on.
@Bob Smith How can Paulogia bee avoiding them when he was never asked and he had other things he was working on.
@Bob Smith How do you know I haven't read the Apostolic Fathers and the Hermits of Egypt? I never mention them, nor do I see why you thin kI thought they were contradicting the NT? I never said that. Paulogia does have a video explaining why he, a Mennonite, left Christianity. Look it up. I don't know what the "many" you are referring to. I live next to an seminary and many interesting discussions about Bible, faith, etc.
@Bob Smith Suggest you read Rescuing Bible from the Fundamentalists by Bishop Spong. Real great book.
Hey Paulogia. Just subscribed. I discovered Bart Ehrman and you recently. Both your arguments helped me leave the catholic faith. I don’t know why I just accepted what I did for so long when I applied much more stringent criticism of supernatural claims from other religions like Islam
Don’t you miss him though?
Wow, I can respect the effort you put in your arguments. I cant imagine how much energy ist costs you to be so unbiased and thorough but the quality of your videos and arguments are undeniable well done.
@Trolltician Well, since Im curious maybe you could explain yourself in what way they are lacking. If you dont substantiat your claims you appear to be a bold liar and we can't have that, right?
Instead of declaring everyone an idiot that disagree with you maybe you want to argue why that is the case. By the same logic you are an idiot too, congratulations. Thats no way to "win" an argument/discussion except for children.
Just listening to people like Mike speak makes me understand why religion is on the decline
Ouch, that is so harsh but true.
Race Bann0n
its true
I p0int this 0ut a I0t
they are s0 arr0gant they d0nt even see the damage they are d0ing t0 their 0wn faith
the internet is graduaIIy er0ding aII credibiIity 0f gr0wn ups with an imaginary friend and they d0n`t reaIise it
pauI has exp0sed Iane craig, in my 0pini0n, as the w0rst ap0I0gist there is
and he`s supp0sed t0 be 0ne 0f their best ??!!!??!?!!?
he has a seIf attesting warmth fr0m the h0Iy spirit which is aII the pr00f he needs
he`s supp0sed t0 be a respected sch0Iar
decades 0f research, 0ne supp0ses, but a fuzzy gI0w is wiII d0
what a waste 0f an educati0n
current biblical scholars now admit that "jesus is coming back" should have been translated as "jesus is coming out", and he'll look _fabulous_
Thanks for making me laugh.
Will he have Joseph's technicolor dream-coat when he comes out?
@@timeshark8727 puh-lease! that is so 37 BC
Queer eye for persecuted guy
@@quantumrobin4627 LOL 🤣
When your best evidence is no evidence at all, well, you're holding an entirely irrational position.
@Trolltician no, that's nothing but your projection.
There is no sufficient evidence for mythological narratives.
Generally speaking, the claims are presented as evidence, in a rather circular and fallacious fashion.
@Trolltician besides, one doesn't need evidence to doubt a highly unlikely proposition, one that runs contrary to observed reality, it is those making such claims that bear the burden of proof to an extraordinary degree.
I don’t get why these people in these videos talk so fast like they are overexcited
One of the most interesting passages in the gospels is the passage that says they straight up didn't recognize the "risen" Jesus.
They must have thought it was his twin brother.
I for one love the "for the bible tells me so" signpost.
It's cute how a prediction--assuming that it's genuine, which is itself something that needs proved--is treated as evidence that Peter would be a martyr.
Greg Camp I mean if it’s entirely made up, some scholars believe it’s possible that the authors of John reverse-engineered this “prophecy” out of a real event (that being Peter’s death). But that all rests on interpreting this as Peter’s explicit death and not his persecution or even his missionary work. It’s chock full of problems
With as many delusional idiots walking around in the year 2021, it is reasonable to assume there were plenty of delusional people during the times of Jesus. People actually believe god speaks to self-proclaimed prophets like Kenneth Copeland and Robin Bullock. I rest my case.
There's a major difference between: "James said he saw Jesus resurrected" and "Paul says that James saw Jesus resurrected".
Or “The guy who wrote the book claiming to be Paul says that James saw Jesus Resurrected”.
There's a reason the latter is not admissible in court. It is very difficult to assess the truth of and eyewitness statement if you are not reading the words of that eyewitness.
It is difficult even if you are ,but near impossible otherwise.
So after all this, the end is Peter, Paul, and James really, really, believed it?
So it must be true?
That man did a whole lot of work, for a whole lot of nothing.
That's apologetics.
@@snooganslestat2030
True that.
Riding a pink unicorn to McDonalds... my poor rhino got a sun burn :-(
Oooooooh, biblical unicorns are generally accepted as being rhinos.
Poor choice. Tsk.
@@pd4165 What's your point?
Paul -- You are the greatest--you take down these so-called apologists. As a former Christian myself, (33 years) I can say you deliver the truth, but they don’t accept it.
Paul always sounds relaxed and laid back. Mike sounds like a nervous wreck.
christianism is all about death. it's a dangerous superstition of death. its symbol, the cross, is a symbol of death. the cross with the dead corpse of jesus hung on it is death itself. christianism is a dangerous superstition of death. get rid of it.
Because that's how desperately they want to make up the illusion that they have actual evidence in support of their claims so as to make believe and gain followers.
Mikes voice is manipulated, played too high speed. Why?
@@preceptsuomi because he speaks slowly. Why bore people out with a guy talking slowly if you can pass his message in a quicker way?
@@filipe.sm31 Exactly. I find myself speeding up a lot of videos due to people talking slowly or having lots of silence. I don't know why but its really common with people in MLMa.
Excellent video, and I want to acknowledge the work and the time you put into it.
Whispers inside one's head, alleged witnesses and oral or written hearsay... The way of every almighty God, somehow...
Well, he does work in
-scizophrenic minds-
er... Mysterious Ways.
Having people die to prove my existence didn't work as well as I planned. I forgot to insure that their deaths and claims were better documented. (Don't tell my disciples they were tortured for nothing. I don't want them to get angry and ruin my vacation in Skyrim)
I don't go to the McDonald's ride-through anymore. They were angry about the unicorn **** on the driveway.
Good video thanks for uploading it for us. Your efforts are appreciated.
Yay Paulogia time. My day just got roughly 30 minutes easier
@Trolltician no, more like, because it's entertaining and educational on numerous levels, so when I have a lot of desk work, like I did on that particular day, I can listen along as the day zips by. I would be interested in hearing which parts of his display that you've refuted tho. That would be fascinating
Excellent work and research as per usual, Paul. You are consistently entertaining and informative and I appreciate the work you do. Kudos man.
Thanks, Red
Paulogia is hot
Back atcha, Jimmy! 😉
But only one of you is fabulous
Paulogia is hot only early June through late August.
Haha
Fun Fact (if the documentaries I watched are correct): Nero wasn't the one to set Rome on fire. If I remember correctly he was even the one founding the first official fire fighters, being a member of them and fighting the fires. And he was the one to install safety measures, concerning used materials and distance between buildings, so that such a tragedy would never happen again. Of course it's easy to say he burnt Rome down, so he could rebuilt it as he envisioned it. But he was just trying to make living in Rome safer. He was just blamed for the fire, because it was an easy way to get rid of the unloved "artist emperor". Since he saw himself as an artist, musician and actor, all not well respected jobs in ancient Rome, he was seen as an embarrassment for the country, its people and the position of the emperor (by other politicians)
Where'd we get the idea that the apostles 1) existed and 2) died for their beliefs?
Cue up Topol to sing, "Tradition!"
1) Paul wrote about meeting them in his lifetime.
2) Bullshit
There are literally the remains of peter and Paul in Rome.
There are remains of some guys in Rome.
Them being Peter and Paul is less than confirmed.
That said, we know well enough that Peter was crucified, as well as we can know most things that happened around that time, but we don't know that it was for his beliefs (Paulogia already went over this - recanting wouldn't have saved him when Nero needed a scapegoat) or even really what his beliefs were.
Where'd we get the idea Alexander the Great or Caesar existed? No bones have been found, only accounts, busts, frescoes and tales...
@@st.mephisto8564 Why are you trying to change the subject?
You're the good work, Paul.
Been watching your videos from Rio de Janeiro, Brazil!
You do GREAT work...this is an outstanding effort above my expectations. I enjoy it when you are direct and definitive about an apologist's lies and deceptions!!!!
Nero setting the fire is a myth and Mike uses this myth to buttress up another myth. Building castles in the sky.
@Kevin McDougall By who, Nero?
#PadoruPadoru
Tacitus records that Nero was popularly blamed for the fire. My understanding is that most scholars believe Nero did not set the fire, but that fact would hardly have helped Nero. Whether he was looking for a scapegoat for his own crime, looking for a scapegoat for a crime he had been falsely accused of, or genuinely believed Christians to be guilty, he would hardly have cared whether a few of them recanted a specific claim of their religion.
I am so used to the _Ham and Aigs_ Opening when I click your videos that I was completely thrown off when I didn't hear it first thing this time!
6:00 I've been challenging Christians on this for a long time. Some Christians claim Revelation 1 as John claiming in the 1st person to have seen the risen Jesus ... while wearing a long robe and golden sash and fiery eyes!!!
you can see all sorts of amazing things when you are on drugs, which the author of Rev surely was.
Even if he said he saw Jesus, since it's an end time prophecy, it would be after a resurrection if that happened. That still doesn't prove it actually happened. Certainly says nothing about being given an opportunity to recant and didn't.
It's generally accepted revelations was a prophecy written about Roman and expected to happen soon after the prophecy occurred. Since the prophecy didn't happen, can we then believe the 'seeing Jesus' bit happened at all?
And?
Well done, Paul. Mike will never admit that his evidence isn't worthy of consideration. He's incapable of doing so. He's pre-supposed his position and isn't allowed to change it for any reason whatsoever. This is what disqualifies him entirely, IMO.
This is why most theists don't cite sources. Smart debaters read one another's sources, assess the source, and assess one another's interpretation of the source. Either Mike's reading of the source is inept, he didn't read the entire book, or just cherry-picked what was useful and omitted the rest trusting you wouldn't look.
We've gotten to the point that apologists are so afraid of being fact-checked, they won't even cite bible verses any more. Believers are expected to have a faith so blind they cannot even be expected to read their holy books themselves.
Welcome back to the Dark Ages.
Don't ask questions, consume product.
In a Roman court of law:
"You are condemned to death for having spread a vile heresy and caused insurrection among the plebs!"
"I'm sorry, your honour. But I don't really believe what I've been saying."
"Well, in that case you're free to go."
Is this what they're imagining would happen?
Have you read the accounts of martyrdom? The romans dragged christians and told them to repent their beliefs and sacrifice to the greco-roman gods and the emperor, if they did they would go free, if they didn't they would be murdered because they were christians
@@danielmia5953 You mean Christian invented stories that had a use as propaganda so they could justify the total destruction of any other religion. What do you imagine was the system of law in the Roman Empire?
@@TorianTammas the martyrs were real people, we have writings from them and such, like of St Clement (drowned), or St Polycarp (burned alive), or St Ignatius (eaten by lions in the Colosseum), or Sts Perpetua and Felicity (tortured in the circus and beheaded). (Each one of their martyrdom accounts include the same court proceeding that I mentioned above, the authorities ordering them to sacrifice to the greco-roman gods and them refusing and thus getting condemned to death)
Nobody doubts that christians were persecuted and many killed in the Roman Empire before the first four centuries of our age
Many people can delude themselves into believing something that clearly isn’t true but they still believe it. And you can’t change their minds no matter how hard you try.
It seems like you're not even trying to think of an alternative explanation for the similarities in the stories. For one, the stories could have referenced and built on earlier ones.
Secondly, that story is one that Christians find particularly compelling so it makes sense that they follow a pattern. The last minute chance to save oneself and refusal to deny Jesus is an effective trope for motivating the faithful and guilting believers. Why not make martyrs as heroic as possible?
2019 and ppl still believe in god
@Trolltician your an idiot
Atheist societies don’t breed as much as religious ones. Once a society goes majority atheist, that’s the moment it begins to die, both physically and culturally. Atheism isn’t the future. It’s a dead end. Literally.
@@TheNightWatcher1385 your honestly an idiot if you think that's what atheism is about we use birth control
@@TheNightWatcher1385 Hmmm if you look at the census data of any western country (with the possible exception of the US, not sure) you will see the percentage of "nones" slowly rising, year by year. Now it may not be through breeding, more likely because religious people are slowly waking up and coming into the light.
@Trolltician Jesus said, "I impregnated , my mom, so I could grow up and commit suicide, but I had to because being all knowing I created this guy name Satan, and I give him all kinds of power and knowledge then I put him in the garden with two people I had just created not knowing right from wrong or good or evil with an enchanted tree that would give them that knowledge and told them it's wrong to eat from it, (they didn't have a clue) So when Satan got them to eat from it ( I knew he would) I stood by and watched and made sure that this sin was passed on to all generations because I had created this torture chamber (Let's call it hell) that I could throw people into it and watch them burn, (I just can’t help myself), So because I am all powerful and all knowing I did these things, I had to make sure that I was beaten and spit on so I could commit suicide by cop cause it was all a setup in the Garden in the first place ... Don't believe me? you just gotta have faith It’s one hell of a plan"...
LOL
OMG I'm definitley downloading the animation. Its just great.
Awesome video Paul! Love the set. I’ve been a patron since you were an infant around 750 to 1K subs. Glad to see how you’ve grown! You’re a class act my man.
I appreciate your support greatly, IV. Thank you.
Paulogia
Thanks bud. Totally worth it. Entertaining and educational. Keep up the good work and terrific content!
I agree with you but your highlighted note in McDowell's book says 2 Timothy not 2 Peter.
Came here to say that
The books of Timothy are known to be forgeries.
@@tranceman22 yes, I know. But he was talking about 2 Peter specifically in this instance
I was coming to say the same thing
I was going to point it out too. Glad someone else caught it. Perhaps Paul just highlighted the wrong citation? Anyways, off to watch the rest of the video.
In your criteria needed to establish someone as an eyewitness, I would also require proof/corroboration in advance that there was an event to witness at all. Otherwise, the other three criteria still would not mean anything to me personally even if they were met. You can't be an eyewitness to a fictional event as far as I am concerned.
Great vid, as always, very thought-provoking!
Atheist Logician there are many examples of mass hallucinations,
@Trolltician is dumbass the only word you know sweetie?
Hermione say Harry Potter doing magic. So one character in a story proves what the other does. Oops it is a work of fiction.
Dr. Who met Churchill on several occasions proving Dr. Who could travel in time!
Churchill had a crush on the Doctor iirc. 😉
Mike's cat makes more sense on religious matters than Mike does.
The stuff Mike's cat leaves in its litter tray makes more sense on religious matters than Mike does.
@Christian Slayer Please don't throwm me in the briar patch.
@Christian Slayer Not the other greatest of human fears, death?
Are you going by those crappy theopolitical Christian movies about "the Godless Libtards are coming!"?
Hey Paul, love your stuff! Just pointing out that John 21 claims an interaction between Peter and Christ, which is what Catholics use as the basis for their belief that Peter was the first Pope. It's quite likely that this has been shuffled around in John, since the same story is recounted in Luke 5, BEFORE the crucifixion. Anyway, according to these gospels, there was an interaction between Jesus and Peter after his death.
Peter didn't write John. I'm aware that others thought that Peter saw risen Jesus. That's not the same as Peter saying he saw risen Jesus. Does that make sense?
@@Paulogia Yes, perfectly! Thanks for the clarification. :)
The James in Josephus is James son of Damneus the brother of Jesus (=Joshua). The words "who was called Christ) is a scribal intralineal comment that has been absorbed into the text
Also on the traditions of martyrdom Candida Moss's " Myth of Persecution" is essential reading
Can you cite your sources for this?
If this guy took just a moment to slow down his speech, I’m sure he’d have fewer errors, fewer “um’s, errs, etc” and would come across as a legitimate and powerful scholar of Christianity instead of a dumbfounded talk show host without enough information to back his bogus argument...
This is why I love you, Paul! Calm, steady, and articulated - even in your live discussions
💚 *quality content* 💚
I love this channel!!
It's not complete until you've been here, Owl.
@@Paulogia I'm confused -_-
My job brings me daily to nursing homes, and I see "The Peter Method" frequently used by staff to guide unsteady patients about. Standing upright, the patient stretches both of their arms forward, and the staff person, facing the patient, takes their hands, and carefully walks backward...often leading them to where they do not want to go.
Yes, my Catholic Douay Bible says, "lead".
But how can you doubt? For it is written that Frodo nine finger sacrificed to destroy the servant of Melkor at Mount Doom, thus bringing an end to the Third Age, before soon after passing to the Undying Lands in Company with his Thirtheenty-One year old uncle Bilbo, the Elves of Rivendell and Lothlorien, and the Maia Olorin.
The last part sums up this whole debate in a nutshell; people defending their position for a living are getting utterly trounced when it comes to the actual facts and evidence by people doing it as a hobby. If there was nearly as much money backing the atheistic counter arguments in the public spotlight, I wonder how many more atheists there would be.
I think I missed the part that explains how Peter dying as an old dementia patient being led by the hand to the doctor is a death that glorifies God enough that the author mentions it will glorify God.
He REALLY needs a basic history course BEFORE he opens his mouth (or make a video)....Thank Paulogia, nice video.
@Trolltician Ive seen several comments that you've made where you basically just call people dumb. Well, why are they dumb? You never seem to have a place you can point to where they were wrong (I suppose you could go to the comment Paul himself put up correcting a few of his own errors, unrelated to the premise of his argument). The larger question though is, why are you so offended that Paul is fact checking people? Don't you want to know if someone said something that isn't correct? I do, which is why, since you apparently have a wealth of information that proves Paul is just a dumbass, I want to hear your argument. But even if you do manage to show Paul was wrong about something, I won't be mad at you. If you can cite your sources and substantiate your argument like Paul does in this video, I'll thank you for the information
Christians:
Paul: X to doubt
General Persecution was an officer in the early Christian Army. He was busted to Colonel for war crimes.
I believe that they were all fictional characters, so they can say or do anything the authors wanted.
Interesting points uncommonly pondered.
Are there rebuttal videos for any of the reaction videos Paul has made? And I'd there are, what are they? I'm really curious to see how someone responds to facts being presented to their false statements.
Your voice is awesome btw. You were "made for this" job ;)
Mike Winger is such a good guy, I hope he finds his way out of his delusion.
I'm from the future and I can report he does not, and his 'such a good guy' status takes some serious self-inflicted hits.
It they didn't want us to use "For the Bible tells me so," they shouldn't have drilled the song into our heads, by forcing us to sing it, a dozen times every flippin day..
I don't think it is firmly established that Nero set the fire, or had it set. The senatorial class, who left what writings we have, had a very low opinion of Nero, and after his death would blame him for anything and everything (just as many today would blame Trump).
For all we know, the fire was set by some Christians. It would not have been the first time, or the last, that religious fanatics engaged in violence.
@MsMarian Rogers #NeroDidNothingWrong
#PadoruPadoru
@@autobotstarscream765 Nero did plenty wrong, but that does not mean that every wrong was his doing.
Poor Mike. One of the greatest cases of self deception. He just digs deeper when his beliefs are challenged. I suspect he’s way too invested in the belief. I wonder will he ever stop to think and find his way out.
Love your videos. You're were big in opening my eyes! Thank you
that means much, Sam. Thank you.
Another fine job, sir! Keep ‘em coming!
There is legends surrounding what happened to Apostles. According to legends,only John lived to be 100.The others died in martyrdom, but no written history about this. Supposedly Peter said he doesn't deserved to be crucified like Jesus, so they crucified him upside down.
there are legends about a bloke called jesus too. none of it is true.
The earliest of christian authors, Saint Clement and Saint Ignatius wrote that Saint Peter and Saint Paul were murdered in Rome, this is 1st - 2nd century
Honestly I won’t like to be in a religion when the death toll is near 100%. Is there a reason why this new idea was so dangerous?
10:40 You may wish to make correction. A quote from McDowell's book is shown onscreen citing '2 Timothy,' yet it is narrated as '2 Peter'.
Plz disregard if this has been pointed out already
Apologists are the Fred Astaires of dancing around questions.
@Trolltician Atheust? ;-)
@Trolltician Poor little troll. Your mother must be so proud. Go upstairs and ask her. She probably can't hear you from down in her basement. Ahh, the Jerry Springer generation.....
@Trolltician Just goes to show that maturity isn't needed to breed.
Btw Nero, didn't set those fires, nor did he "fiddle while they burned"
Nero was more likely on his villa (villa in the roman sense), when it happend and didn't emediatly notice it. And fires were very likely in dence city like Rome. Poor people were living in often badly constructed multi-level houses (insulae) and cooked on open fire.
*gasp* how dare you cut out the cute kitty! O_o
Stoning’s, Crucifixions, Sacrifice, Death, Doom, and Destruction… Never a dull moment in the land of Creed,
Thanks, great video. Here's a question about Paul's vision: how did he recognise Jesus? He'd never met him before, and there wouldn't be pictures or statues (them being Jewish)
Jesus identifies himself. Pretty simple.
If you’re trying to insinuate that Paul saw someone/something else, I’m not really sure what your point is
@@colejames423 if I say I'm Ronald Reagan, does that make it so? No, because you cannot compare me to Reagan. You know what Reagan looked like, but not what I look like. So my word would not count for much.
PS: I'm actually not Reagan
@@thinkingaboutreligion2645 - again, I'm not really sure what your point is? From a non-believer/critical perspective, all that really matters is that Paul thought he saw Jesus, and as far as I can tell, that's what just about everyone thinks. Maybe he was just lying about it, or he saw some random John Doe, but it's pretty inconsequential as far as I can tell. You end up at the same point with respect to what happens later.
Jesus showed him his Texas driver license.
@@colejames423 So Paul saw a cloud and claimed it was Jesus. I saw a cloud that looked like a sheep.
There are people who die claiming that the earth is still flat. Someone claiming something at their death doesn't make it true.
It is my hypothesis that flat earthers are really just mocking the unfounded claims of Xianity and other illogical religions. Your point is well taken.
😖 Deep sigh! If by speaking really rapidly someone can create a level of confusion, then top marks to Mr Christian. Add going off topic and rambling with repetitions you have a classic apologist response. Lord give me patience 😫 in the face of such verbal gymnastics! As always, Paulogia, kind regards from your correspondent in 🏴
The dude sped up the video for some reason. Notice his voice, hands, and the movement of his cat in the background.
This guy reminds me of Ben Shapiro. Speaks quickly and tries to throw in so much info that it confuses people and therefore “proving” they’re correct. What a horrible way to prove anything.
@@AMikeStein
Agreed, but I thinks it is a lot worse than that. This would not be a conversation if only christian stuck to the line that this is about faith not "evidence". But they pay science the ultimate respect when they need evidence to butress their belifs. That apporoach to my mind is a 1 way street to oblivion in the long run.
Nice vid Paul. It's rather ironic that it takes an atheist to offer an objective critique of scriptures. It seems more likely that theists are vetting their position on scriptures through what they like/dislike, versus what is likely or unlikely.
... resurrected fish...
Crap, they found me!
I think you mean: Carp, they found me!
Oh, I do love herring fish jokes. Sometimes I even make them just for the halibut.
I say there's a Plaice for everything even a Sole
I find it almost impossible to listen to these apologists/preachers when they use that ridiculously fast pace of speaking. Do they think they are more persuasive when they talk fast? Great job Paulogia
2:26 Hey, woah, catchphrase thief! I was expecting a BionicDance intro after that. What's next "Hello and welcome to my channel [picture of River Song], How Y'all doin'? [Extreme close-up]"?
I saw the cartoon avatar and interrupting after every 5 seconds with a random question and thought "man, this video is really of its time". Then I realised 5 years ago is 2019, not 2014...
nice "bible told me so" callback
Great to see you on this channel, I was doing a little bit of searching myself.
Love ya. Keep it up. You make a difference
@Paulogia
I need your help. I am losing my religion but I want to have scholarly foundations if I am going to leave the Church like you did. I like your videos but I like to read too. I want your recommendations please. Any advice you also have would be recommended as well.
On the Historicity of Jesus - why we might have reason to doubt - Dr Richard Carrier. Blows the historical jesus right back to kingdom come. No Jesus, no christianity, no heaven, no nothing. Excellent and very well researched book, very accessible, I have the audiobook and have listened to it many times (Carrier narrates it too). Jesus interrupted and Misquoting Jesus by Pr Bart Ehrman. Goodbye bible reliability.
Great video, Paul!
He didn't bring up my favorite argument that preachers give: the gospels say Jesus showed up to a bunch of people ~527ish and it's also in acts and the early church father's attested to these stories so it must be true! Also flaming tounges over people's heads.
holy crap... Mike Winger went WAYYY beyond "for the bible tells me so", and went straight into "i'll believe freaking anything that tells me what i want to hear". psuedo-clementines? the apocalypses of james? gospel and apocalypse of peter? this guy should rename himself "Mike WingNut".
The consensus nowadays is that Nero most likely did not even burn Rome and he just wanted to counter the rumours by blaming the least liked and most suspicious minority. So as Paul says, even if they recanted, Nero would've shrugged it of and kill them anyway.
I pretty sure that current consensus is Nero was else where entirely the idea he was in Rome and had anything to do with the fire is what we call a "conspiracy theory" due to Nero taking advantage of the aftermath to remodel Rome.
@@mattm8870 Indeed. He was in his summer residence at the time of the fire.
Dewey Dezimal - We have in the original Krestus which is a common Greek name and we do not even know what or who these group of people where and how they would be identified. It sounds all very strange.
Paul never saw Christ alive. He was a Johnny come lately who took the church away from Peter and the other apostles who actually (according to the story) saw christ....or maybe not.
Wish there was a an exclamation point along with the thumbs up I added to the video, Nailed it! pardon the pun
Great episode as always!
I hate to be that person but at 10:38 the highlighted example you show refers to 2 Timothy, not 2 Peter... Is that an error or am I missing something?
I hope somebody got fired for that blunder.
Again, excellent video. On the matter of James, here is the quote from Josephus's Antiquites of the Jews:
"...Festus was now dead, and Albinus was but upon the road; so he assembled the sanhedrim of judges, and brought them the brother of Jesus who was called Christ, whose name was James, and some others [or some of his companions]. And when he had formed an accusation against them as breakers of the law, he delivered them to be stoned: but as for those who seemed the most equitable of the citizens, and such as were the most uneasy at the breach of the laws..."
Oddly- much less specific than Pastor Winger seems to think. Again, one has to agree with Paul on this one. Video making Paul, as opposed to Hallucinating-on-the-Road Paul.
@Kevin McDougall Hahahahahahahahah. He. Was. Avenged.
[6:02] "Even if we take the Bible to be completely historically accurate, the tally of every single person who says they saw a resurrected Jesus is exactly one person - Paul."
Fun fact, if we take the Bible to be completely historically accurate, then we must at least add to that tally Stephen, who is recorded in Acts as saying to the Sanhedrin, “Look, I see heaven open and the Son of Man standing at the right hand of God.” (Acts 7:56 NIV). You, might I, might suspect that account as being heavily embellished, if not entirely fictional, but you are assuming "the Bible to be completely historically accurate". We should also add the author of the fourth gospel, who unquestionably indicates himself to be an eyewitness, and to have seen physical resurrection appearances (and even to have eaten a breakfast cooked on a fire by the resurrected Jesus. Again, if we are taking "the Bible to be completely historical accurate", we must accept that representation as a given.
Far more interesting from a historical perspective is 1 Corinthians 15: 3-7:
"3For what I received I passed on to you as of first importance a : that Christ died for our sins according to the Scriptures, 4that he was buried, that he was raised on the third day according to the Scriptures, 5and that he appeared to Cephas, b and then to the Twelve. 6After that, he appeared to more than five hundred of the brothers and sisters at the same time, most of whom are still living, though some have fallen asleep. 7Then he appeared to James, then to all the apostles, 8and last of all he appeared to me also, as to one abnormally born." (NIV)
As Paul received this information, and passed it on; it is presumably common teaching in the early church. Therefore by 55 AD, and possibly as early as 35 AD it was common teaching in the early church that Cephas, and the Twelve, and 'all the apostles' and James (presumably the brother of Jesus) had all "seen" Jesus after his death. That, at a minimum means we have the three specific cases (Peter, Paul, and James the brother of Jesus) included among the people who claimed to have seen a resurrected Jesus. It also means we have James the brother of John among those 'witnesses'
Yeah, that was an odd bit to add in there for Paulogia when considering his initial premise of supposing the Bible is completely historically accurate. I enjoyed the video, of course, but that was a bit of a slip up.
Stephen was having a vision of Heaven and that's where he says Jesus was. Having a vision of Heaven isn't the same as seeing the bodily resurrected Jesus. On top of that - we do not have any accounts or claims from Stephen himself. Stephen wasn't the author of Acts.
The author of the Fourth Gospel does not give us his name and does not claim to be an eyewitness to the resurrected Jesus. In 21:24 the author claims that the words in the gospel are based on the testimony of the 'beloved disciple'.(who he does not name) The author is the one who is making the claim here ..not the 'beloved disciple' himself.
The claims made about the resurrected Jesus in Corinthians 15: 3-7:were all made by Paul - not by Peter or James or the apostles or the Five Hundred.
I like the beginning part of this video @ 1:53 where Paulogia says "we'll just edit out the talk about his cat to speed this up a bit." Cool.
Mike's dishonesty has no bounds.
@Trolltician Yep, Paulogia does a great job of showing how idiotic the people he critiques are.
@Trolltician Sorry, I don't understand the words you are using. You seem to be perhaps trying to be a nasty person? Religious belief will do that to you.
You agree that Mike is dishonest, but have also found some mistakes with Paul's presentation. Is that correct? Most of us want to understand truth, so can you please point out what mistakes Paul has made?
He's a troll - ignore him. His purpose is to have fun by getting people all heated up. Note that he says nothing constructive so that he doesn't have to participate in any meaningful conversation. Probably another atheist since he really doesn't refute anything the presenter is saying.
Hey, I just wanted to point out that there appears to be an error in this video: @21:14, the verses displayed claim to be 1 Corinthians 12:2-3, but these verses are actually from SECOND Corinthians, so it should say 2 Corinthians 12:2-3. Anyway, thanks for the video!
Mike Winger sounds like a popcorn machine. Slow down.
Forget the green screen version, i need a ring tone version.
Just more astoundin' rubbish from the New Testament.
It's incredible that some Christians still think they are persecuted
In some parts of the world they are. But only by other theists, not atheists as they like to pretend.
Jesus' appearance on Earth really came at a very bad time.
Today we want scientific evidence for supernatural claims, but people back then could never have provided such evidence, because science didn't exist.
An all knowing and all powerful god would’ve known that
Love your videos Paul! I noticed though that your 1 Cor reference should be 2 Cor. I’m learning so much from watching you and I try to follow along in my Bible sometimes
I don't know why I watch videos like this. I keep hoping that an apologist will actually say something worthwhile, but it is always the same old BS.
In any event, thanks for smashing yet another Christian make-believe.
25:35 It was actually the common practice for stoning to first throw the person off a cliff by the first so-called "witness", then have a second person ("second witness") throw a rock on him, and only if they survived both, the crowd would just pick up other rocks and stones to finish the job. When Acts says that at the stoning of Stephen, the "witnesses" laid their coats at Saul's (Paul') feet, they're referencing this practice.