Riot is Paying Hackers To Break Vanguard
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 16 เม.ย. 2024
- In a cruel twist of fates, Riot is now paying people to crash their servers.
Link to the hacking bounty:
hackerone.com/riot/?type=team
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A lot of companies use this tactic, I think they call them "White-hat hackers." Meaning they offer their skill at hacking to companies in order to hack their systems and find flaws or access points, then lets the company know about these so they can fix them, this significantly reduces the chances of "Black-hat hackers" (criminal hackers) being able to access their systems. It's the essence of fighting fire with fire, who else would know better about how hackers work and think than an actual hacker?
Yep as soon as I saw the title it made me wish again that I got a pc when I was younger and not a console. White hat hacking is a good side job and I think some people make it their main source of income too
I can confirm that's exactly it :D
Source: I'm studying cybersecurity at uni
Yhup this is why I'm working on my B.S. in cyber security. Companies pay top dollar for you to find ways to break into their online systems so it can be fixed.
Spy vs Spy type shit
it sounds kinda smart tbh
The wildest thing about this all is that somehow Hytale still isn't canceled, hot damn!
if it came out, will it be a riot games game !
@@liqiye3611 but at this point is it worth it?
@@friendlyfire3412 i hope they are making something else like some runttera pve game
@@liqiye3611Hope? Wtf, why another goofy ahh boring ahh Riot League game that nobody plays, instead of a competition for MC? real question
@@Biocdon i agree on the last part, but calling riot games ao no one plays them is something is not true att all.
I mean, this is standard procedure. There is a bounty system for almost any and every security system, so people find out and inform back. They're usually pretty decent (usually in the range of a million bucks or even with extra zeros).
I would highly doubt there is any sort of bounty for VAC lmfao. The lazy asses over at valve would need to actually update their (non-existent) anticheat if they had one. Valve ain't doing that. They too lazy to actually improve their games.
Correction, there _might_ be a bounty system for closed source applications, open source do not need it because the users check the code with extreme pettiness finding every single weakness FOR FREE.
Also makes the software WAY safer.
But that would also mean profit would go down, and we all know what that means.
Profit > user safety every time.
@@marcusjohansson668 LMAO. There's plenty of very good reasons companies don't open source their shit. The Riot code leaks from a few months back show exactly why. The moment their anticheat code got made public they saw a 30% increase in cheating. Open source is great for applications that are smaller or allow the user a large degree of control, but not for anything that requires heavy security. And calling open source "WAY safer" is still insane. Just 2 weeks ago almost every Linux system had an intentional RCE backdoor built-in, which had been there for months/years unnoticed. Open source is not inherently any safer for the user.
I love open source code, it's great for me as a dev. But acting like it's a universal best case is ridiculous.
@@Wildcat12 The point you completely missed in that whole rant not only shows you have no idea what you are talking about, but that with open source, things like the riot leak would not even happen, because there would be nothing to leak.
The XY "hack", that did not happen, was found BECAUSE IT IS OPEN SOURCE. LMAO
Maybe you should focus on the backdoor CIA INTENTIONALLY left in windows FOR YEARS when they found it instead and be worried about that.
But you show the precise problem in the world, most people are fanboys of capitalism, and therefore hurt themselves.
There is a definition for it: "useful idiot"
Google that.
But I'm actually not saying Leagus should be open source (even though that would be GREAT), I am talking about Vanguard only here.
The kernel level ROOT KIT you just "trust me bro" installs.
@@Wildcat12 You talking about the XZ hack that didn't happen BECAUSE it was open source? LMAO
Yeah, you seem very informed indeed.
Riot: We promise not to cause no issues with our anticheat.
See y'all again in three months.
It has been running for years...
Your gamer mouse driver: "We make no promises and don't give 2 shits about the known vulnerabilities in our kernel level driver."
@@peacepham7838 And to this day still causes issues with Valorant. It's not the tragic shitshow it was on launch, but still. Also, next time Riot suffers a data breach, Vanguard info will be more acessible too, so...
@@agnuswulf Data breach on Vanguard? That won't happen. So you do know the last data breach was Social engineer right? Do you really thing normal employee clearance can have access to security department with encryption? The breach was come through a new LOL employee, that's why League source code got out, because that's the base code every League employee work on.
waiting for the bug/feature where our PC needs to ask Riot's servers for permission to perform issues outside of the game or client
People always use “looking at your search history” like some kind of strawman. Try looking at your bank account, the passwords to every single thing you ever log into, any confidential info, your loans, everyone you communicate with, your legal records, and any other info that can be used against you in any way.
And even if Riot don't do it when the inevitable data breach of their systems to some other hacker happens then those people will have access to that info.
You do know that Riot can already access literally all that if they really wanted to, right? If you install literally any software, that software can access all your info or brick your PC. That's why you're only supposed to open and run files from trusted sources.
@@leetri Programs that are not running as admins can not read arbitrarily from ram (and don't allow they to capture keystrokes that another program receives [Ctrl/alt keybinds are an exception to this]). They can only read everything that's on your hard drive.
So even if the client is "bad" it will not be able to get your passwords if you don't save them directly to your disk.
@@leoschafer5172 Tell me then, how do viruses and other malware do it without admin access? Tons of youtubers have gotten hacked recently because they simply clicked on a scam link or opened an infected file.
@@leoschafer5172 the client can just get them with a keylogger
Anyone remember when the Korean league of legends anti cheat client was leaking player IP's for years up until like last week? Bueller? Anyone?
Uninstalled league. Thanks vanguard for making the decision for me.
cheating communities propaganda consumer lol
@@VertixW whatever you say chinese spyware supporter
it is now the end. no more leauge, was considering installing vanguard if forced booted from launch was removed. but sadly it is not.
"Finally, Riot Vanguard is an on-boot application. That means if you do choose to disable it and later decide you’d like to play League of Legends, you will have to restart your computer."
~I am free from this acursed game!~
Looks like we were fighting against scripters and not smurfs
😂😂
hahaha. At least smurfs happen on first days / weeks of split
Smurfing is allowed why would they fight it
@@mendokuse8888"we" the players
@@MikeSion mb
If you want to league your legend, you now have to van your guard.
XD
"What do you think riot would do with your information?" is the dumbest question ever, no offense. Data is the biggest market of today, and this gives Tencent the absolute easiest (and cost effective) way to get as much data as they want from millions of westeners. Riot is Tencent's stooge, they are 100% owned by them and therefore obligated to do what they're told. Their passive aggressive post insulting their players and saying that they actually don't meet Tencent too often means literally nothing, since no one can fact check their claims.
And also, the bounty is meaningless. The data is encrypted, only Riot (therefore Tencent and the ccp) knows what they're stealing.
yeah... i am not even that worried about data "breaches" because the worst possible people already have access.
22:17 Morde mains for old schoolers.
Viego mains for the new playerbase
It's okay guys, Tencent would never steal our data...
Unless you're an Amish Tencent has your data already.
@@jonathanabgrall6075 And control in your pc?
Its kinda insane to me to where the general mindset of the public has drifted to.
We had 2 decades of consensis that you should never give anyone online your data. And bit by bit that mindset got brittled down.
Cookies became a thing, with a short massive outcry when the public realised what they were.
Facebook became a thing, with a massive outcry after peoples data got sold behind their backs.
TOS‘ more and more integrated permission to use personal info, which everyone warned each other about.
Now all of that has gotten so normal that millions of people go: „Access to my entire PC and sensible data? As long as I can play my videogame thats fine. They promised not to fuck me over so I can trust them.“
inb4 a farmer comes in to setup their "you're just mad cause you script" strawman
Exactly this. Will never install a kernel level anti-cheat. Even if riot is honest what they say about data collection and privacy terms, they still can be hacked, resulting in hackers having kernel level access to my system. Also the Linux part was so much bs. Ofc there aren't any linux players anymore if you keep announcing vanguard will come, which (for good reason) does not run on linux by design.
You're not wrong. But the security field itself has also changed over time too. It is quite literally impossible now to fully prevent an attack or breach. Now security is all about making it difficult and layering solutions. If you are a more difficult target than someone else, then you are safer. Windows Defender is pretty good these days. But in my opinion, no one should consider their PC a truly safe space unless they have never connected it in any way to the outside world.
We have no choice but to live in various shades of risk. Riot' is 100% right when they say that they don't need kernel level access to get everything. And that holds true to a large swath of games and software people install without a thought before now. It's honestly great that this is forcing people to actually think about the choices they are making to install something.
And frankly, Vanguard forces people to actually update their damn machines and drivers that are riddled with decades old vulnerabilities. So that's kinda nice, lol.
you gave Valve your data by using Steam.
then you should stop using the internet at all, cut your pc/laptop/whatever from the internet and kick yourself back to the year 1900 and if you want to play "something" start using old CD's again so you dont need the internet for something. :)
someone has the clip of piratesoftware talking about vanguard, cant find it, the date works too, i can go scrub the vods
Same, I want to hear it aswell.
From the looks of it its his stream from 4 days ago. Vod duration is 12:11:39.
I saw a short of him talking about it, but idk if I'd be able to find it again
I took the time and looked over the last 4 vods. Its the one 4 days ago. He talks about it at 07:18:00 (or a bit sooner) but you should find it.
VOD from 13.04.24
So glad others are looking for it. I wanted to find it too
Gotta love how Necrit KEEPS TALKING about Vangaurd and its working.
Meanwhile the problem is that Riot has been hacked at times and it's not Riot we fear with the Kernel level stuff but what hackers are able to do with it.
And I know other anticheats also have this but they don't have a bullseye painted upon them. This has.
I feel safe with what Riot does. I don't feel safe with what other people will do once they get it.
your also forgetting Riot games may have nice people as their employees but what about its parent company that it legally has to answer to and legally has to give that parent company anything it wants on demand...
@17:40 Riot doesn't care about what you do with your computer, but Tencent would.
"Do you think they are interested in your search history" YES!!! YES THEY ARE
Cant wait to find my credit card and address on a database after Riot's "flawless" ccp data extractor gets hacked
linked with your full name, email and hardware id of course :))
They already have it
„But maaan what does riot want with your browser history.“ most dystopian shit I’ve heared
oh no, the whole 32.93$ of yours are in danger... anyway
@@Juuz9 projecting?
Having a korean based system where your account is linked to YOU as a PERSON is a way better solution to combat cheating/botting than installing some software that has control over my pc more than I do and could get hacked any day due to some stupid crack that it might have.
How is that a realistic solution lol
@@tingispingis Well, i'd rather have my account tied to any sort of identity document (how it's done in Korea/China) rather than having a program running on my PC at all times.
Entire community: "Hey, could you deal with the trolls and griefers that are in 1:3 games that I play, constantly ruining my experience?"
Riot: "No, but we can install malware on your computer and fix a problem you didn't know existed."
spyware more accurately
@@ethanstyant9704 Wake up, Ethan. You've been in a coma for the past 5 years. We've been trying to get through to you. Your family misses you. Wake up.
bro this is literally boiled down to its finest sauce so sad but true.....
2009-2024 RIP
RIP. Nickyboi's Cassiopeia
Riot probably ban me when they saw my tristana Search history. I hope it is not a perma ban
Another Yordle enjoyer
Did you actually watch pirate software stream?
How can you tell he "got impressed" when he literally says "ill never play i game with kernel level anti cheat".
And complains about how this is an option but not the "correct one".
do you have a link to the stream? i tried to find it but i aint got time to sift through multiple 12h streams
Absolutetly, I remember watching the short and he ended it saying he is not going to play any game with Kernel level anti cheat. Using his video and then cutting it short is shameful!
not only is it not the "correct" one its the lazy one, kernel level anti-cheats dont make it more secure it automates the detection process for the devs. In essence its using ChatGPT for an essay but in the dev world.....
the yellow fking chart at "12:50" include the free skin mod users btw
absolutely not. Nobody is getting banned for skin mods
@@posizzisop2389 what makes you think that?
@@prideless2122 what do you think a hardware ban is
@@posizzisop2389 "getting banned for skin mods", did you already forget what you typed or what xd, skin mods are custom ingame skins which alter the files of league of legends. No Hardware mods lma0
@@prideless2122Actually the skin changer is flagged by Vanguard as its 3rd party program that alters your game files.
Iam already seeing it. most peopel will have the "We couldn't install a required dependency. Please try again, restart your computer or reach out to us at Riot Support."
I dont even believe that Rito/Tencent is stealing all my data through vanguard. The issue is that I dont want to install a backdoor in my computer that just BEGS to be exploited by some third party hacker one day. Just now Korean pro players get DDOS's because the korean anti cheat system (yes they have an additional one) got broken and now the hackers sell the ip adresses.
Thanks but no thanks. I would rather register my ID card for one fixed account, than willingly installing a rootkit on my main computer. Maybe if I ever have too much money and get a secondary PC/Laptop I will come back. But until then I wont install LoL again.
Riot gonna lose so much money with these hacking competition 😂
As a person that implemented anti cheat measures in our online multiplayer shooter, I can confidently say that hwid (hardware id) circumvention is easy and detection is only a bandaid. Most payed serious cheats do that automatically. But it helps^^.
They are not banning hardware ID, they are banning the TPM 2.0 module. Which, I should note, is not as easily bypassable as TPM 1.0
@@zeronothinghere9334 I see, thanks for clarifying.
3:30 from what I remember the Urgot clip was abusing the old League client bug where you could add unexpected amount of point to masteries from the old mastery tree system, such as summoner spell cooldown reduction mastery, which led to this bug specifically, as you ended up starting the game with 100% cooldown reduction on your spells leading to infinite amount of flashes and smites in the game.
Hiring white collar hackers to test security is standard, but the rest of the post...
The post was so goddamn condescending, all to excuse kernel-level access, which they do not need. No game should demand this much access and just promise to be nice, while if anything goes wrong, its my machine that suffers.
And they decided to completely ignore things those programs do catch that have nothing to do with cheating, like unrelated development software, VMs and so on.
No security goal excuses demanding this much access for a game.
a lot of needs from a small indy company
dev software and VMs are not caught. It only prevents playing FROM a VM.
VMs aren’t blocked,and never have been like the guy above said. The program does detect if you use a virtual machine and LAUNCH a riot program.
Vms can fals alarm and get u banned u dont have to play for them just having then installed or running a progress in the background can trigger the always active vanguard
Riot can have my search history if they like Futa lillia and soraka then I dare them
while they're at it they will take the log in info to your bank account and your email and social media passwords too, ooh maybe they'll also want to take your address and sell that to people too
A sophisticated art enjoyer then.
Dude futa lillia never came to my mind and now i can't get it out
@@jansonshrock2859 TH-cam knows your real name, address, and their parent company is Google, so let's not talk about your search history. If you want to watch content that has been labeled for adults, you need to give them your credit card. The site you are using knows more about you than any hacker ever will.
Dont forget kindred too
17:45 considering Riot is a commercial business, why wouldn't they want to collect interesting data on our machines to sell it off to the highest bidder? It has happened before and therefor I understand the negative thoughts a lot of people have about the whole matter.
It would be massively illegal if they did, but again that’s only if it’s found out.
Other companies have done it got fined for it but compared to the money they made the fine was nothing
6:35 you what’s ironically funny, I’ve seen practically unstoppable enemy Vayne players when first really playing League (I started last year in February). So when pretty new/low level, Vayne destroyed us almost every time there was one in game. Maybe it was a bot at times.
This didn't age well. PCs are going to shit. Just uninstall all Riot shit. Not worth it.
The notes:it's literally sitting there (menacingly) 😂 that's definitely a programme's note
They said its not gonna be supported for windows 7 and windows 8, but its not supported for windows 10 2017 version and older.. so yea rip that..
Thanks for all this information!
The problem still isn't the harvesting of information but the massive security risk that the a kernel level anti cheat is. If, for instance, a backdoor access is found in it then every system that has that anti cheat is in danger of being compromised.
1/15 games is tough, but atleast its no where near the top fps games which have as many cheaters as 1 / 3 games having cheaters (and thats for 5v5 games like val / csgo / r6 -- i can only imagine that literally every BR game like Apex has a cheater in litterally every top lobby)
This statistic got made public a little bit earlier than this post. The same day I had a highly suspicious Kaisa in my enemies team.
Playing Leona, I was literally unable to hit my E during laning phase. Only when team fights started and 3 or more skill shots came flying towards that player, I could land my E.
I kept telling me: "Jesus, they are good at dodging. Must be a really good player" and even a friend of mine said: "Yeah, Leona E is a pretty small hit box" but I literally felt like I was going insane, not hitting E's I would usually hit.
After I saw that statistic, I was sure that player was using an on/off script where you turn it on if needed and play normal otherwise. Because there were moments, when that player didn't dodge the easiest skill shots and then they dodged everything.
Patch 14.8 Vanguard is implemented in my country. My Lol client that I can run consistent at 80 fps at max settings became unplayable even at lowest graphic settings and resolution going from 1920x1080 to 1360x720 because of Vanguard. I can't even access my practice tool.
stop using a potato
Well my ultra potato laptop without a dedicated gpu could run Valorant with steady 60fps, so there is that
My probelm with Vanguard is not how it operates or how much access it has, but rather how much it can break a device, ever since i installed it my pc has been worse, much more blue screen's, sometimes my mouse just doesnt work... I guess its time to say goodbye to Lol.
13:34 that graph just shows there has been a lot of hardware bans, there is not any way for us to confirm how many of those where legit or false positives.
Is that you argument? We dont know if its false positives? What a terrible argument
@@sugihara5091 I'm not even making an argument just stating we cant just take that graph see big number and assume every one of those cases where perfectly executed.
@@OnlySamCan In the case of an anticheat where it is not heuristics based you can guarantee that the bans will be 99% effective. not to mention that the graph was hardware based, how big you think the margin of error is for a HARDWARE ban, think about that
I would say... that graphic that riot pulled is really really tricky... cuz you are seeing the quantity of games with scripters AND bots... but they aren't telling you from WICH gamemode is pulled the data and who is who, you don't see what % of that massive graphic are bots and what % are scripters and also you don't see what gamemode were played with the bot or the script, is a VERY CONVINIENT graphic to show... could be just the botting that happens in ARAM and plaver vs computer mode... you know... later they inflate the elo based grapic with "IN GRANDMASTER ARE A HIGH AMOUNT OF SCRIPTERS, CHEATERS AND EXPLOITERS" when in reallity there aren't cuz grandmaster have a low count of players... so the problem are like a 0.01% of the global players are cheating so we are pulling our spyware in every server besides china (how ilarious) so we lose basically 20% of the global player base that actually don't cheat
"1 of 15 games have a scripter or a cheater"... again... in WICH gamemode? aram? player vs ia? low ranked? high ranked? all of them? obviously they will not say it cuz it would be most probably player vs ia...
and in the raked graphic you see where are the most players they don't tend to cheat... that is totally contradictory with riot premise of "a lot of players are cheating" cuz iron, bronce, and silver aren't cheating...
UMMM IS IT JUST ME OR IS LEAGUE BUGGY SINCE VANGUARD. I updated just yesterday. Since then whenever i join a match even TFT my pc crashes. EVERY FKING MATCH. Oh well at least I Have a reason to quit for good this time. Never crashed before the update.and never crashes when doing anything else
One major thing that bugs me about the dev post is that they showed that their old non-kernel level anticheat "Packman" worked. It worked well even. But now just because that got broken we take out the nuclear option to force kernel level anticheats which run 24/7. A non-kernel level anticheat works just as well. Even kernel level anticheats can easily be bypassed. Hardware bans don't work.
so the stats only look at ranked games so why does someone who doesn't play ranked or SR have to have this? Honestly, who gives a shit about cheaters, I'd rather protect my personal security than worry about a made up stat in a game that means nothing in comparison.
If your personal information is that important to you and you feel like Riot is the biggest threat to it (which is false imao) then don't play the game. Do you use Facebook or google...? I mean it's a stupid question, you are on TH-cam. (Owned by Google) They are known to steal and sell your information. Like a bunch of very used other product, services or companies.
@@AtakenSmith it's Tencent and China I worry about. I use fake info for accounts and refuse to dl any apps that require my personal info.
Vanguard is already useless, hackers nowdays dont need to hack directly to the anti-cheat system, they usually use color recognition and some scripts to help the mouse aim towards those lines, and guess what games likes to use color outlines for their characters? Yeah, ain't no way, vanguard has 0 chance to detect periferals if those get spofeed again and again.
And Vanguard doesn't do any shit to match fixing, trolling etc etc...
One big issue that's going to come from Vanguard is the collegiate scene. Most college/universities public computer labs have their computers wipe after logging out (deletes any installed content, aka LoL). Since Vanguard requires a restart, playing LoL will no longer be possible on any school pc's (which is surprisingly going to limit a LOT of people).
Maybe their grades will improve?
The college players don't play in computer labs. They use their own computers or a set of esports computers.
@drjamaymay405 as a college player, I can confirm the majority of them use the public labs
Great A Coverage on this Topic Necrit!!!
This is solely and purely to protect pros and streamers. Regular players don't see cheaters and will never see one. Its a fraction or a tiny segment of a miniscule sample of people that may find a cheater.
Most popular esport, probably a good decision.
If you are in bronze then it makes sense that you will never see cheaters.
The part that worry me is if we cheat in other games it might false detect. Like it's my problem if i cheat on my single player games using cheat engine or some other things. should not affect my league account.
That's my problem with Vanguard too.
This brings up another question: Why the heck are you cheating in other games? If it's single player it's whatever but online too!? C'mon guys. ARE WE NOT ADULTS!?
@@DarkDodgers yeah i said it single player. for some old games cheat engine can sometimes be used to patch some compatibility issues too.
@@DarkDodgers did you read the original comment? we were talking about singleplayer games mostly. and in multiplayer gamers? ever hosted a server in GTA V just for you and your friends to fuck around with cheats and shit?
Ngl, when I play Terraria with my friends, I always duplicate Wormhole potions (used to tp player to player). We're not using them to break the game or something, it just helps making the game a little faster paced and fun on big maps.
Imagine if hackers start to somehow install cheats on ppls computers and perma ban that computer from league, just to f with ppl
Ngl this is the first legitimate concern i see about this. Specially in regions relying more on internet cafés, PC bangs etc.
At the same time considering how big League is in these regions i'm sure Riot thought about it. Like an hardware ban isn't irreversible.
@@jonathanabgrall6075 true, but if u possess litte to no knowledge about computers, and still have to prove that you did not do it.
For examples, hackers can just "hack" their own computers and claim they got hacked, i guess for now it still works as it should, if they cheat they still get the ban anyway, untill proven not guilty of the intentional hacking in game
"Vanguard will not be enou-th" lolol @ 18:13. big fan necrit thanks for all your work
Cool stuff , now on another note , is Vanguard gonna stop deleting installed files of every VPN in the world ? like can someone have theyr games installed and be able to work remotely to pay theyr bills? lmao
its rly cute what they say they are doing , but theyr anticheat just blocks everything it gets its hands on , no matter if its actually a cheat or a non harmfull VPN , doesnt even matter if you have the game open ( Vanguard opens with windows, will not allow VPNs to work correctly even with games closed). Just FYI closing Vanguard wont solve , as Vanguard swipes the already installed files of the VPNs making them unusable until we reinstall. And ofc next day will happen again unless the game is uninstalled. Never been able to keep playing Valorant due to this reason , i guess its bye bye to League as well lmfao
17:47 Riot not, but Tencent does...
What bothers me about the article:
Timestamps are not consistent.
The rank graph is also a thing. Fewer players equals higher impact. Seen on all elos but less.
The Bugbonty program is a thing with cheats you can always earn constant money, with the betrayals you could end up in jail if you're stupid.
It's not the issue that it runs in kernel.
It's the other things:
Always On, Force TPM and Force Secure Boot.
This forcing is my core problem, just like always being on.
What else Vanguard brings with it.[Bugs!!]
You know since I'm stuck in Riot iron hell I tend to see more cheaters but I sometimes encounter them in Norms playing Yumi Soraka and Jinx oddly enough it was very strange it was just a jinx that would farm and only farm and kept farming until the game ended. In the enemy noticed and kept killing her I've also noticed it with the ram is jungle you'll just see this really bad Ramos that's just farming and sometimes just stands there doing nothing and it's absolutely blasted by the enemy jungler and simply goes back to farming.
Hopefully Riot Vanguard fixes this
That almost sounds like a lvling bot that was used.
I think what is being said about the cooldown for abilities is client sided, and that is the reason why the spam the abilities might be wrong. From what I remember there was a mastery which reduces your summoner spell cooldown and somehow they hacked it so they can put as much points in it as they want.
The heavy leaning on the slippery slope fallacy is just disappointing. Logically, there's a limit of invasiveness that will absolutely protect against all cheats. The idea that the AC will have to escalate and escalate until you're playing on console is just silly, and frankly, dishonest...
7:25 it doesn't mean that at all, Rito might want to pretend that it does but that's a ridiculous claim
Hmm im curious how so? And what proof? I'm genuinely curious cause this is all new to me
@@illusionofartYT Rampant boosting, horrible balance, myriad of bugs that can be abused for months on end, leavers in every second game. How the hell's that a healthy competitive scene. Moreover ranked is the default queue for most players, that again shows you that the majority of players don't really take it seriously. At least they are slowly fixing the ranking system itself but the game quality is still ass.
In other words the statement that that implies a good competitive scene is wild conjecture with no proof.
My credentials for these claims are Diamond/Master and playing the game for 14 years (fuck me i'm old).
All it means it that ranked has ever so slightly higher bragging rights than normals, because of course they still do have that, but the ranked system is far from in a good state, and it's not been in a good state since season 1
"legally" here means that the kernel has to handle the kernel calls from software in user mode, as in, the computer allows Vanguard to do this, not that they can by law access files on your computer that they shouldn't.
11:24 It depends on TPM module they use. Most people aren't buying those TPM boards anymore. Modern TPM is CPU-based already. That's why custom builds can use Windows 11.
This is a willful miss of the actuall issue. Yes Riot will have eyes on them when they release this software. But what happends in 5 years when this information is no longer openly talked about. We are not only expecting Riot to stand on principle on privacy but we are also expecting them not to fall for pressure from any third party groups that might have an interest in direct access to millions of players computers. I am sorry let the cheaters reign. Every single tech company have shown us that everything is up for grabs as long as the price is good enough.
Vanguard isnt going to change a thing
i think an easyer way to do this is to add your social security numbers to online games company side so if we hack the only way to get a new account would be through getting a new social security number, or create a similar effect number for the purpose of online discourse
WTF
On our public computer shops we can't play now
I understand the explanation, but I still don't trust it, and at a point it won't be enough. So I'm quitting league for a while still
No link to the Pirate Software stream recorded?
Hopefully someone has it
when was the PirateSoftware stream on this? I would like to see it.
They can say anything about what Vanguard does and doesn't, we still won't know what's going on in the background.
As in, they can say it doesn't do X, but it does X anyways.
Pls touch the V2 lux in LoR 😭 i don't under why she got another one
If you ever have to say "they aren't interested in your search history" you have already crossed a line.
When you look how much cheats costs (at least from what i could find overall, not specifically lol) they are often really expensive. It's a whole market. and seeing how many people cheat (again, not specifically lol), i think $10 000 isn't "that much" compared to people who are willing to spend $20+ monthly, sometimes even way more.
account leveling via scripting won't be fixed by this for the most part, doubly so with innovations in AI. you already can train AI to play a game like a player using inputs
When did Pirate Software talk about Vanguard? Please, I need this ;-; All the stream VODs are too long and none of them titled Vanguard, their youtube channel does not have it
around 6:50:00 4 days ago a 12:11:XX stream on twitch
@@minxnoraen6943 Thanks
Damn, If I wasn't mechanical but software engineer instead! 😂
funny how much data and knowledge they have on cheaters and how common they are or know intro bots had full lobby of them, and yet they couldnt stop anything or even admit how bad it is, unless its time to push kernal lvl access so many years later
The stat that says that we’ve probably seen scriptures is really interesting. I didn’t think I’ve ever seen one personally but maybe I have. Just never really noticed
3:50 it's false, the no coldown on flash was due to a cheat engine exploit that allowed you to use multiple mastery points on the same mastery. So instead of 5 mastery points you could use 30 on coldown reduction.
So you proved the statement to be true, cuz cheat engine can only influence information stored on your side.
@@sidawan9297 There wasn't a check in mastery system not in cooldown. Even the worst programmer know that the skills need to be checked server side.
Yeah there were somewhat local cd abuses but this one was just a mastery point oversight. A real CD exploit happened with botrk which made the active have 0 CD
what I think is funny is instead of chasing the mouse, (keeping people from flashing on no/.01 sec CD) they don't have a net looking for things that shouldn't happen. X person flashed twice within ~200 seconds? red flag.
@@Karavusk It was a smartcast bug or settings bug.
I still find Vanguard to be a stupendous method of anti cheat. Obv you will be able to capture a cheater if you have absolute control over your clients PC (since vanguard assumes a control level above administrator rights), including everything they own and even access to their devices like webcams etc. You can even access their private bank info. Riot will not do it but if one person breaches them it's over.
If Vanguard decides by it's own to change a tiny line of code by accident (which let's be honest even the riot client is a broken mess of spaghetti code which barely works half of the times) where it matters on your PC, it might be unable to ever open again.
I'm pretty sure Vanguard is not a sentient software that can change itself.
Vanguard has been in val for 3 years and they only had small problems right with the software launch.
Skepticism is completely reasonable, but bricking the players PC's shouldn't be of concern this deep into Vanguard's lifespan.
what are they going to do that monitor that has built-in AI that basically pings your screen about potential ganks? It is like cheating without running a program.
AI use is another can of worms
I have been training for this my whole LIFE LMAO!!!!
If Riot were to investigate player's computers...Do you think they will finally see how popular the furry characters are and give them more skins? Maybe I should put together a folder for that named "RIOT LOOK HERE" and hope they get the hint. Other furries should do the same.
I'm not a furry but after watching Hazbin Hotel and Helluva Boss. . . well idk
(⊙_⊙)？（*゜ー゜*）(°ー°〃)
Vangaurd has not even been released and they already found ways to make cheats even more tedious with 0 detection if u have a spare 5 $ and a iq above 80 to install some code on a raspberry pi.. This will be a disaster..
You need a raspberry pi to cheat now.
That is quite massive, would-be cheaters are probably going to stop because they don't care enough to buy one.
@@drjamaymay405 lol I think quite the opposite.. If you cheat with a raspberry it will be even more stealthy...
And believe me that you can be a complete idiot and just install it.
U dont need to be a tech savvy person. That's the worst part
@@drjamaymay405anyone who cheats in league is invested enough to buy a rasperri pi
I hope that winrate for low ranked accounts isn't used to directly ban players, I used to have 80% winrate around 5-6 years ago (without cheats and without smurfing) as I almost never played and suddenly got a ton of free time and decided to spend a couple of weeks grinding and improving
it still to this day just informs me of the vanguard update, and I do not have it installed... idk what this is about xD
They can try what they want I ain't installing that shit. And you did mention Thor. Though he cleared up some stuff he also stated that you should absolutely not run that kind of anti cheat. :D
I dono guys, the post isn't selling me. Just saw the vanguard notification in the league client. It said that my system is "ready for vanguard". Moments after seeing that I uninstalled the game. I don't think I'll be coming back anytime soon. I don't trust Riot especially since they don't share the whole story. Sure the graphs are pretty , their motives are noble, but the price is just to damn high. I will not allow a driver to stare "menacingly" at my system waiting to strike. If the thing does nothing without a game, the why have it running. If it's running it must be doing something :)
So .. as far as I am concerned this is the line I am not willing to cross and Riot can go play league with themselves and vanguard. I am dropping this like a hot potato
See you soon!
Wdym, necrit literally summarised why vanguard staring menacingly is a bit misleading? It's because you can't trust the operating system that is window so they created their own checking driver just checking it periodically to make sure that everything is fine. You can switch to Mac with their os and should be fine i believe.
@@laikhoabang piratesoftware read the article, according to him this is bullshit, it is always on, even when you're not playing.
how does mac work with TPM thing? Or does it since it's only a windows thing?
I love all the cheaters saying im leaving cuz i dont trust their shit. Players who have nothing to jode dont cate about this. Its only cheaters and people with something to hide who care
If I use a "cheat" (like motherlode) in a game like Sims 4, will vanguard detect me and ban me? Also, I have mods in Skyrim, idk if it affects it aswell
If Vanguard detects your mouse or headphones as scripting idk man
It should not but it happend before
we dont need kernel level presence it will expose so many things on the user's system. Majority of players dont cheat. it is often the top percentile of players which is a low amount of people and the new accounts. this just sounds like a product that someone within riot wants to expand to look good in their resume or track record.
Necrit when we getting back to opinion pieces and not shilling for riot? please
ye see the funky thing about this is, kernel level anti-cheats.... dont actually make their games more secure 😅 all it does it automate the process for the devs..... basically the devs are too bloody lazy to actually come up with proper solutions so they go with the "uses ChatGPT for a college essay" card and try to spin it as this end all be all thing. when truth is its a crock of shit 🤣valorant is riddled in cheaters and no one admits it simply becuase they spent hundreds on skins they can never re-sell ahahaha me included like, but atleast i can see through the fog.... 13 years of my life i spent on league. now i have to leave it behind........
Idk how vanguard usually behaves since I don't play valorant. I simply disable it from autostarting on startup, and then manually start in services to play league without needing a reboot, the vgc service would also automatically stops once I close league client or riot client.
thats just the vanguard tray icon you're disabling. If you actually disabled vanguard (vgk.sys in task manager, check, it's there) the option to launch your game is greyed out
@@neonoir__ yeah, what I disabled is the tray icon on the startup tab in the task manager, the service wasn't running, there's smth called vgc in services it's not disabled it was simply set to manual. I have to manually start it before I start the riot client to play league (if not the league launcher is greyed out), and once it's running there would be something called "vanguard-user-mode-service" and under it is the vgc. exe service, and once I close the riot client it automatically stops as well and disappears in the task manager and also stops running in the services.
@@neonoir__ no, not quite right, I just tested it again but it seems like if starts the riot
client but don't launch LoL and simply sign out and close the riot client the vanguard user-mode service will remain running in the task manager but if I launch LoL and then sign out through League client and "x" riot client, the service will automatically stop as well.
correct me if im wrong but swapable TPM is not common anymore in recent hardware, and most of it in old hardware spesifically on motherboard wich is there is litteraly connector to buy and swap your TPM but in recent newer hardware (motherboard) it was directly inside, and what im talking is only PC, laptop user dont had swapable TPM at all
What would riot do with our search history and information from our computer? ... they sell it... just like old school twitter did even though they said they wouldnt... they then got fined an amount less than they made in selling the information.... thats what riot can do. Note the people that would make this decision wouldnt necessarily be riot rather it would be their owner Tencent which is a chinese government backed company... Also if the playerbase is so unaware of all the hacking as described then perhaps the hackings isnt as impactful which begs the question if this is even
needed?
0:58 I went and watched to vod as Thor has been very outspoken about how much he dislikes kernel anti cheat and can confirm he still dislikes kernel level anti cheat because of the level of access it gives but he agrees with their methodology as he understands its the most efficient current method but that it will be bypassed eventually as with all anti cheat as its a continuous cat and mouse chase/tug of war that never ends between game devs and cheat devs and that he will just wait for the next iteration of anti cheat that will come after kernel when it inevitably gets bypassed.
ahh he brings some of it up at the end of the video
Could you send a link? Cant find it anywhere
@@ddomekk38 on his piratesoftware channel go to his live tab, a Noita vod streamed on the 13th of april, that is 11:55:00 long. He starts talking about it at 6:45:53
Very great thing to do as you have the most powerful minds in the world hacking and exposing vulnerabilities to you, you are also arming yourself with said power
In what Stream did Pirate Software go over the Vanguard Post? I am interested in what he says about it there.