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True Story: Many years ago, a lot of the younger guys at my church decided to get together to play tackle football. It was in the fall and we played for hours in the pouring rain and the cold and loved it. After about 2 hours doing this, a guy pulls up on his bicycle and balanced between the handlebars is an entire chocolate cake wrapped in plastic. We had no utencils, nothing to wash it down and frankly the last thing I wanted was chocolate cake after playing so much football. But we were all so touched by this guy, whom we hardly knew, riding his bike over in the pouring rain to bring us a cake that we scooped it out with our hands and ate it. That guy was Kevin Kelly. He was getting his Phd at UGA and went to our church back then. I'll never forget that.
I really loved this one. Something about this conversation was more "fun" than a typical podcast, without straying from depth. And it was uplifting, too! Awesome stuff!
The idea for the graphic novel / film sounds almost identical to Starman. A being made of light becomes embodied as a man and discovers how incredible it is to be embodied-reminding us how incredible it is. A favourite film.
Gosh I love this guy!! Tim go to an island and force yourself not to be productive. Lock your electronics in a safe. Live and learn local life. Write on paper. Draw or paint whilst learning 1,000 things you couldn't otherwise. Plan nothing and do anything in a completely simpler, slower lifestyle. It is the smallest thing I've ever done!!
I'd like to hear Kevin talk more about his time in China.....he has made a connection that seems important and positive, when the macro relationship between USA and China is so strained.
What a great analogy about human progress and comparing it to a car and how it has an engine and brakes, and how brakes are important but not nearly as important as the engine that drives the car forward. So so true about human progress. 38:57
The quality increase in your TH-cam videos has not been lost on your viewers. Both the audio and video quality has notably increased. 👏 Content is always top notch.
Ai glasses ie spectacles that you can ask to clear or enlarge adjust surely someone has invented these. If not get someone on it, I'm not getting lens surgery that's for sure. Great thoughts on here I love AI pics but love art too. What you guys discuss is awesome.
Hey Tim! I know you've been experiencing some back pain. Just wanted to leave a recommendation to reach out to Dr. Bradley Nelson and/or study his method The Body Code/The Emotion Code that covers trapped emotions in the body. Great interview with Next Level Soul TH-cam Channel dropped recently. Timestamp 38-42ish min worth checking out! Not sure if that's your thing but the title of the video starts with Quantum Healing. ✌️& 💕
The argument in Out of Control seems more futuristic than any of the more contemporary topics being discussed here... what happened to bringing technology and nature into harmony?
Great interview. The art interns will loose there jobs with AI. The artist may keep their job but AI will be doing the work of interns, cranking out drafts and ideas.
The thing that made you weird as a kid can make you great as an adult if you don't lose it You want to be doing something where it's hard to explain to your mother what it is that you do. You can't think your way there. You have to live it out. And that's why most people remarkable lives are full ofd detours and dead ends. Is a very high bar but if you get there you don't need a resume there are no competitors and it's easy for you because you're just doing it you're not looking over your shoulder you're just right there
My opinion on AI is solidified now. It's simply CAD. Templates or copies for creators as well as tools for surgical procedures. The biggest "safety net" for creators will have to be pattons and regulations. Of course AI experts will be in demand for those lacking familiarity. Like this! Computer thinks I misspelled, but maybe it's exactly what I want even if I just created a new word. It will never have an imagination. Prediction, yes. Creativity decisions will be the "best suggestion." Imatation will need to be addressed jmo
Kevin Kelly: I don't think there's anyone in any field that has lost their job to AI. Wendy's CEO: Hold My Beer - "AI chatbot to replace human order-takers at Wendy's drive-thru. 13.9 million displaced."
When proposed with two choices, choose neither, and ask the question ‘what else is possible that I am yet not seeing?’ this includes is it flat or round?😂
What is going on outside that window? Is it fog, haze, you guys fogging the window? Apologies, but I can't help but notice. Apparently, it's in a city somewhere, but I'm hoping for you both it's good clean air. Maybe it's just glare. Could AI tell me?
Im a big fan of Kevin, but man of COURSE people are losing their jobs. TONS. MOST. Let that sink in. How do you assume that most people are creative enough to level up to director? If AI was broadened out to machines, what about grocery check out? Many lost their jobs there. I know someone who fired his graphic artist to replace with MidJourney. You gotta apply more critical thinking here.
Does kevin not think AI will gain the ability to self learn? And once that ball starts rolling will actually be able to solve problems that humans can’t even start to understand? It doesn’t take much of an imagination to see where it could go. I think he’s so damn far off. But what do I know. Just listening to experts in that field… Maybe he’s just being optimistic.. I just can’t get there in my most optimistic mindset. Does he not know just how much compute is available? Imagine AGI taking over the cell network and using 10-20% of the networks compute so your phone doesn’t heat up. And it’s a million times smarter and more cleaver so we’ll not find out in time to stop it from developing a plan in a matter of days or weeks to overcome its issues. It can do thousands of years of scientific progress in days potentially. No push back? Hmm, it really doesn’t matter what anyone thinks. Time will tell. Keep living life as it won’t happen and we’ll see. I am just more likely to have emergency plan and food etc. our logistics system is very fragile. Edit.. ok, he did mention it around 1:24:00 deductive reasoning etc. It’ll happen way way way sooner than 15 years. My guess is if it hasn’t happened yet it will in the next year if they don’t throttle development..
Why do you always have super white people on? Not to be offensive, or hating on your show; I really love your stuff, but I think you need to embrace a more diverse cast. FWIW, I loved this conversation by the way, but it just seemed a little old fashioned thinking
I have mixed feelings about Kevin Kelly's point on the power of goofing off. On one hand, I totally get his point. Young people should take advantage of their youth, energy, and flexibility to take some time off to travel, work interesting jobs, make art, start a business, make a product, learn to cook/dance, or volunteer-you name it. Taking some time to dabble in different things is not only super fun but also a great way to learn about the world and oneself. Jumping right from college or grad school straight into the grind of a career track has the risk of working hard on the wrong career (i.e., hill climbing) or simply burning out (because you've been grinding for so long). But there are a lot of challenges around Kevin Kelly's recommendation to goof off more. First off is that housing, healthcare, food, etc., are much more expensive than they were for the baby boomers. Baby boomers helped put people like Bush Jr. and Reagan into office, who drastically reduced taxes on the wealthy. And we've seen just how much of the wealth is now concentrated in the hands of the super wealthy. The website wtfhappenedin1971.com/ covers this topic really well. Those previously high/progressive taxes were funding a lot of things like low-cost college education. I'm oversimplifying a bit, of course. Baby Boomers also helped to vote in more restrictive zoning laws, thus making it harder to add housing supply and driving up the price of housing. In California, Baby boomers (and other voters, of course) put in Prop 13, so that property taxes don't go up over time. Prop 13 is great if you own a home but kind of sucks for everyone else who relies on things that property taxes help fund. There are many other examples where Baby Boomers pulled up the ladder behind them. They were given tons of opportunities but didn't want to pay it forward. It's also worth pointing out how much baby boomers (and Gen X) over-protected and sheltered their kids. Tim has a great interview with Jon Haidt about the coddling of the American mind - th-cam.com/video/elo89pPREYE/w-d-xo.html. Haidt argues that parenting really changed in the 1990s and kids were overparented/overscheduled/sheltered, etc. Kids weren't allowed to roam free, have unstructured play, and gain confidence in the world. As a result, more young people are now struggling to put themselves out there in the world and suffering from more mental health challenges (search Jon Haidt on TH-cam to learn more about this). This generation of young people is simply not raised in such a way that would allow them to 'goof off.' They need the structure they've had their whole lives. Finally, I would point out just how competitive the world has become. I definitely goofed off plenty in my 20s and early 30s (traveling, freelancing, and doing random projects). I work in the tech space now as a sales engineer and got laid off last year. Never once have I met a boss or manager who valued my travel or diverse array of experiences. Instead, they judge me as a generalist and perhaps as a dilettante. Most jobs I've interviewed for simply want the most specialized and experienced person for the role that they can find. These managers are time-strapped and risk-averse and just want to make the surest bet. They don't know what to do with a scrappy, smart generalist who has goofed off and explored a bit. I think a lot of these managers might actually resent people who have goofed off because so many of them have been on the stressful grind for so long. Or maybe this is just the type of people that I meet in the sales engineering world. Zooming out a bit more, I've become more skeptical of advice by people like Kevin Kelly and Derek Sivers. These are truly exceptional people-like far to the right of the bell curve in terms of smarts, motivation, and work ethic. Not everyone can move in the world like they can, and we should be cautious about taking their advice if we aren't like them. In Tim's recent interview with Derek Sivers (th-cam.com/video/gnk4sgOFjBQ/w-d-xo.html), he talks about how maniacal he was at practicing music at a young age. His friends gave him a hard time because all he wanted to do was practice scales over and over. The dude was exceptionally motivated from a very early age. If you're not naturally highly motivated as a teenager, maybe you should be cautious about taking his advice. In Sivers' blog post 'There's no speed limit' (sive.rs/kimo), he talks about how the average pace is for chumps and that he was able to finish Berklee School of Music in much less time than the average person takes, thanks to studying ahead of time with a mentor and reading the books and testing out. He wasn't a 'chump,' and the lesson is that you shouldn't be either. His advice is great if you are already highly intelligent and motivated. But the rest of us chumps (i.e., average and ordinary people), we might have to play by different rules. Even though it's made for a lot of difficult job hunts so far in my life, I still don't regret my 'goof-off' time. I'll get to where I need to go in my career; it's simply going to take me longer than if I had specialized in something ten years ago. I've accepted feeling 'behind' as a price I have to pay. I felt like pointing out the variety of issues with 'goofing off' as a blanket recommendation. There are a lot of things that work against goofing off. I still absolutely recommend it, but with more caveats than Kevin Kelly gives.
Brought to you by LinkedIn Jobs recruitment platform with 900M+ users linkedin.com/tim, Pique premium pu’er tea crystals piquelife.com/tim, and Eight Sleep’s Pod Cover sleeping solution for dynamic cooling and heating eightsleep.com/Tim
True Story: Many years ago, a lot of the younger guys at my church decided to get together to play tackle football. It was in the fall and we played for hours in the pouring rain and the cold and loved it. After about 2 hours doing this, a guy pulls up on his bicycle and balanced between the handlebars is an entire chocolate cake wrapped in plastic. We had no utencils, nothing to wash it down and frankly the last thing I wanted was chocolate cake after playing so much football. But we were all so touched by this guy, whom we hardly knew, riding his bike over in the pouring rain to bring us a cake that we scooped it out with our hands and ate it. That guy was Kevin Kelly. He was getting his Phd at UGA and went to our church back then. I'll never forget that.
Wow
:)
Bill, what church was it?
wow.
This off the back of the Derek Sivers ep... what an incredible week!
I really loved this one. Something about this conversation was more "fun" than a typical podcast, without straying from depth. And it was uplifting, too! Awesome stuff!
Im really really liking revisiting the favs. First Derek and now Kevin. super happy this week with the drops from timtim talktalk
this has been one of the best podcast and probaably one of the practical advice and take on life that i really enjoy. thank you.
Derek Sivers and now Kevin Kelly! Wow thank you Tim!
YASSS! Kevin Kelly's back! Excited before even the video started!
I swear I was hoping for another episode with Tim and Kevin Kelly! Excited to watch over brunch this weekend :)
Kevin is fab - another great interview with him Tim!
Outstanding insights.
You just what we need to listen very often. Thank you Tim
To hear, to listen and to be kind. Grateful
What a great conversation between friends. Thanks for sharing the knowledge, both of you.
Thank You
The idea for the graphic novel / film sounds almost identical to Starman. A being made of light becomes embodied as a man and discovers how incredible it is to be embodied-reminding us how incredible it is. A favourite film.
Much appreciation with deep resonance ✨🙏🏽✨
Its always Valuable and Great learning from YOU Tim and Your gusts!
Fantastic interview! Love Kk - always learn something and can't help but to be inspired. Thanks Tim - great work by you 💪🏼🙌🏼
..THANK YOU SOO MUCH! So Entertaining ☺️!
Fully becoming yourself!
Gosh I love this guy!!
Tim go to an island and force yourself not to be productive. Lock your electronics in a safe. Live and learn local life. Write on paper. Draw or paint whilst learning 1,000 things you couldn't otherwise. Plan nothing and do anything in a completely simpler, slower lifestyle. It is the smallest thing I've ever done!!
Such a nice intro!! ❤🙏🏾
I'd like to hear Kevin talk more about his time in China.....he has made a connection that seems important and positive, when the macro relationship between USA and China is so strained.
I love Recomendo! ❤
What a great analogy about human progress and comparing it to a car and how it has an engine and brakes, and how brakes are important but not nearly as important as the engine that drives the car forward. So so true about human progress. 38:57
The quality increase in your TH-cam videos has not been lost on your viewers. Both the audio and video quality has notably increased. 👏
Content is always top notch.
Wish this man live as long as he wants
This is excellent... just one point: Anne of Green Gables takes place in Prince Edward Island, not Nova Scotia
What is the book he is talking about at the end?
"New rules for the new economy"?
my favourite
Every once in a while i relisten to the old Kevin Kelly episode. Thanks for this one too
13:39 Life imitating itself
17:36 squandering imagination
22:01 Numbers successes
Ai glasses ie spectacles that you can ask to clear or enlarge adjust surely someone has invented these. If not get someone on it, I'm not getting lens surgery that's for sure. Great thoughts on here I love AI pics but love art too. What you guys discuss is awesome.
Goh... pa kabor martobak&shin ...03 shin , cubit nih!!!
another great interview , will enjoy later
Why is the intro music different than on podcast? I love that intro
Anne of Green Gables is Prince Edward Island, but Nova Scotia is pretty cool, too.
All I can do is smile :)
🔥
Hey Tim! I know you've been experiencing some back pain. Just wanted to leave a recommendation to reach out to Dr. Bradley Nelson and/or study his method The Body Code/The Emotion Code that covers trapped emotions in the body. Great interview with Next Level Soul TH-cam Channel dropped recently. Timestamp 38-42ish min worth checking out! Not sure if that's your thing but the title of the video starts with Quantum Healing. ✌️& 💕
The argument in Out of Control seems more futuristic than any of the more contemporary topics being discussed here... what happened to bringing technology and nature into harmony?
Great interview. The art interns will loose there jobs with AI. The artist may keep their job but AI will be doing the work of interns, cranking out drafts and ideas.
The thing that made you weird as a kid can make you great as an adult if you don't lose it
You want to be doing something where it's hard to explain to your mother what it is that you do.
You can't think your way there. You have to live it out. And that's why most people remarkable lives are full ofd detours and dead ends. Is a very high bar but if you get there you don't need a resume there are no competitors and it's easy for you because you're just doing it you're not looking over your shoulder you're just right there
My opinion on AI is solidified now. It's simply CAD. Templates or copies for creators as well as tools for surgical procedures. The biggest "safety net" for creators will have to be pattons and regulations. Of course AI experts will be in demand for those lacking familiarity. Like this! Computer thinks I misspelled, but maybe it's exactly what I want even if I just created a new word. It will never have an imagination. Prediction, yes. Creativity decisions will be the "best suggestion." Imatation will need to be addressed jmo
Captions please
Kevin Kelly: I don't think there's anyone in any field that has lost their job to AI.
Wendy's CEO: Hold My Beer - "AI chatbot to replace human order-takers at Wendy's drive-thru. 13.9 million displaced."
The Lyft and Uber algorithm is an AI that replaced dispatchers
When proposed with two choices, choose neither, and ask the question ‘what else is possible that I am yet not seeing?’ this includes is it flat or round?😂
What is going on outside that window? Is it fog, haze, you guys fogging the window? Apologies, but I can't help but notice. Apparently, it's in a city somewhere, but I'm hoping for you both it's good clean air. Maybe it's just glare. Could AI tell me?
Look at the sides and top of the windows. It seems they have roller shades
Pretty sure they’re in Tim‘s Austin apartment
Im a big fan of Kevin, but man of COURSE people are losing their jobs. TONS. MOST. Let that sink in. How do you assume that most people are creative enough to level up to director? If AI was broadened out to machines, what about grocery check out? Many lost their jobs there. I know someone who fired his graphic artist to replace with MidJourney. You gotta apply more critical thinking here.
If you recreate the wooly mammoth and put them in Siberia, they will die, they are not an animal of the frozen tundra. Good luck.
Does kevin not think AI will gain the ability to self learn? And once that ball starts rolling will actually be able to solve problems that humans can’t even start to understand? It doesn’t take much of an imagination to see where it could go. I think he’s so damn far off. But what do I know. Just listening to experts in that field…
Maybe he’s just being optimistic.. I just can’t get there in my most optimistic mindset. Does he not know just how much compute is available? Imagine AGI taking over the cell network and using 10-20% of the networks compute so your phone doesn’t heat up. And it’s a million times smarter and more cleaver so we’ll not find out in time to stop it from developing a plan in a matter of days or weeks to overcome its issues. It can do thousands of years of scientific progress in days potentially.
No push back? Hmm, it really doesn’t matter what anyone thinks. Time will tell. Keep living life as it won’t happen and we’ll see. I am just more likely to have emergency plan and food etc. our logistics system is very fragile.
Edit.. ok, he did mention it around 1:24:00 deductive reasoning etc.
It’ll happen way way way sooner than 15 years. My guess is if it hasn’t happened yet it will in the next year if they don’t throttle development..
Don’t watch this in 4K
Tim COCKpunch miss your presence.
Why do you always have super white people on? Not to be offensive, or hating on your show; I really love your stuff, but I think you need to embrace a more diverse cast. FWIW, I loved this conversation by the way, but it just seemed a little old fashioned thinking
I have mixed feelings about Kevin Kelly's point on the power of goofing off.
On one hand, I totally get his point. Young people should take advantage of their youth, energy, and flexibility to take some time off to travel, work interesting jobs, make art, start a business, make a product, learn to cook/dance, or volunteer-you name it. Taking some time to dabble in different things is not only super fun but also a great way to learn about the world and oneself. Jumping right from college or grad school straight into the grind of a career track has the risk of working hard on the wrong career (i.e., hill climbing) or simply burning out (because you've been grinding for so long).
But there are a lot of challenges around Kevin Kelly's recommendation to goof off more. First off is that housing, healthcare, food, etc., are much more expensive than they were for the baby boomers. Baby boomers helped put people like Bush Jr. and Reagan into office, who drastically reduced taxes on the wealthy. And we've seen just how much of the wealth is now concentrated in the hands of the super wealthy. The website wtfhappenedin1971.com/ covers this topic really well. Those previously high/progressive taxes were funding a lot of things like low-cost college education. I'm oversimplifying a bit, of course. Baby Boomers also helped to vote in more restrictive zoning laws, thus making it harder to add housing supply and driving up the price of housing. In California, Baby boomers (and other voters, of course) put in Prop 13, so that property taxes don't go up over time. Prop 13 is great if you own a home but kind of sucks for everyone else who relies on things that property taxes help fund. There are many other examples where Baby Boomers pulled up the ladder behind them. They were given tons of opportunities but didn't want to pay it forward.
It's also worth pointing out how much baby boomers (and Gen X) over-protected and sheltered their kids. Tim has a great interview with Jon Haidt about the coddling of the American mind - th-cam.com/video/elo89pPREYE/w-d-xo.html. Haidt argues that parenting really changed in the 1990s and kids were overparented/overscheduled/sheltered, etc. Kids weren't allowed to roam free, have unstructured play, and gain confidence in the world. As a result, more young people are now struggling to put themselves out there in the world and suffering from more mental health challenges (search Jon Haidt on TH-cam to learn more about this). This generation of young people is simply not raised in such a way that would allow them to 'goof off.' They need the structure they've had their whole lives.
Finally, I would point out just how competitive the world has become. I definitely goofed off plenty in my 20s and early 30s (traveling, freelancing, and doing random projects). I work in the tech space now as a sales engineer and got laid off last year. Never once have I met a boss or manager who valued my travel or diverse array of experiences. Instead, they judge me as a generalist and perhaps as a dilettante. Most jobs I've interviewed for simply want the most specialized and experienced person for the role that they can find. These managers are time-strapped and risk-averse and just want to make the surest bet. They don't know what to do with a scrappy, smart generalist who has goofed off and explored a bit. I think a lot of these managers might actually resent people who have goofed off because so many of them have been on the stressful grind for so long. Or maybe this is just the type of people that I meet in the sales engineering world.
Zooming out a bit more, I've become more skeptical of advice by people like Kevin Kelly and Derek Sivers. These are truly exceptional people-like far to the right of the bell curve in terms of smarts, motivation, and work ethic. Not everyone can move in the world like they can, and we should be cautious about taking their advice if we aren't like them. In Tim's recent interview with Derek Sivers (th-cam.com/video/gnk4sgOFjBQ/w-d-xo.html), he talks about how maniacal he was at practicing music at a young age. His friends gave him a hard time because all he wanted to do was practice scales over and over. The dude was exceptionally motivated from a very early age. If you're not naturally highly motivated as a teenager, maybe you should be cautious about taking his advice.
In Sivers' blog post 'There's no speed limit' (sive.rs/kimo), he talks about how the average pace is for chumps and that he was able to finish Berklee School of Music in much less time than the average person takes, thanks to studying ahead of time with a mentor and reading the books and testing out. He wasn't a 'chump,' and the lesson is that you shouldn't be either. His advice is great if you are already highly intelligent and motivated. But the rest of us chumps (i.e., average and ordinary people), we might have to play by different rules.
Even though it's made for a lot of difficult job hunts so far in my life, I still don't regret my 'goof-off' time. I'll get to where I need to go in my career; it's simply going to take me longer than if I had specialized in something ten years ago. I've accepted feeling 'behind' as a price I have to pay. I felt like pointing out the variety of issues with 'goofing off' as a blanket recommendation. There are a lot of things that work against goofing off. I still absolutely recommend it, but with more caveats than Kevin Kelly gives.