I was born a moslim but currently do not hold to any faith. I have to admit, this is biggest strength of christianity : Forgiveness and love. You don't find these two important notions anywhere else. God bless you Bishop Robert.
My Uncle who is a police officer in NYC was there the day that it happened. He survived, but he lost two of his best friends that day who were also cops. Now that the 10th anniversary is coming up, I'll be praying for my Uncle's two friends who perished that day. Thank you for your message Father.
I wish I had the wisdom of Bishop Barron; not just to speak of it, which is so good; but more importantly, to live from it. *May God bless you abundantly, Bishop Barron!*
To will the good of the other is a radical approach in a modern world full of self righteous proclamations and accusations. Bishop Barron turns on the light!
It took me almost 50 years to forgive horrible bullying towards me as a young teen. I had to learn it over a lifetime and your message was right. Bless this ministry.
This is really helpful even for mundane domestic issues. I have been very angry about my teenage daughters unwillingness to go to church. This talk helps me understand that my anger is bad if it causes resentment in my heart. The right response is to keep calling them (my daughters) and encouraging them and acting as a loving father. Resentment just festers and eats away at you. God bless you from the bottom of my heart Bishop Barron.
Forgiveness seems to be the one most misunderstood subject of society today. Forgiveness is also the most difficult thing for human beings as we often want to hold onto the hurts and injustices done to us like we would a trophy....God help ME to forgive those who hurt me as you have also forgiven me from your great love....is my cry.
@cristianfcao No idea what you're complaining about. I simply meant that it was providential that we had the opportunity to reflect on the nature of forgiveness on that day.
Ive gone back to this video a couple times over the past two years, it's really one of your best videos explaining forgiveness and the best thing I've ever heard/seen on the subject. My wife and I were on the subject of anger this morning and she was under the belief that it's always bad or a front to the real emotion. I told her it can be used for good also but I couldn't remember why or how I knew that. Then I googled anger Robert Barron and there it was and I watched this again! Thank you Bishop Barron!
Your Excellency, I understand your video about anger, wrongdoing, revenge. To be honest, I've done something wrong and that was making my older brother feel like the bad guy and let myself feel good. So my older brother angrily lectured me and during the conversation, I almost started getting more angry and almost started crying. So instead i took deep breaths and exhaled calmly. And to make myself calm, I started praying the Holy Rosary and I felt a comforting presence of The Virgin Mary and Saint Michael. Both of them encouraged me to calm down and get a goodnight's sleep. So I realized that making another person feel bad and myself feel good won't help.
Thanks for your energy and enthusiasm. I would suggest that you talk to your bishop first. He might enquire as to your background in theology and the teaching of the church. God bless you in your work!
Father, I want to thank you for this video. I showed it to my pre-Confirmation class this past Sunday to help in our catechesis on forgiveness. The students were really moved and I feel like my fellow catechist and I were able to get the message of forgiveness and God's mercy across to them. I especially like your idea of saying "This is our problem." It was a great way to tie into Christmas and the Incarnation. Thanks again, Father. God bless!
Father needed this. I use to live in a share house and when I told the other housemate I was living he tried making pay all these additional bills and wouldn’t give my bond back. The brain starts wanting vegenance fur the injustice. Anyway thanks for showing the right way.
Interesting way to put it. Ever thought of going father than explaining the word? Seems like you have a good sense and way to explain things. well, blessings to you Brother, thank you all that make this posible may god bless you always.
@Mechanized0 May you never get old. May you never get sick. May you always have plenty of money or monied family to help you if you ever get old and sick. May all of us always behave like angels, never polluting the earth, water, or air in which we all live and of which God has made us stewards. We truly would never need government then.
the more you about God the more it hurts becouse we are all sinners and coming to the Lord is like a burning flame if you still have sin in you we cannot get close to Jesus or his father even worse we get bien like electric shock and die and never see God becouse of ain unless if he bring us to purgatory help us Lord Jesus help us Mother Mary of Guadalupe amen
As a flight attendant I do mourn what was taken away from us...flying was so much more fun before 911. I never thought of being angry at the hijackers/killers though. It just seemed all so pointless the destruction and so sad, just so sad for New York
What I remember about the twin tower attack of 9\11 2001 and how devastating it was. Was it shocking and devastating to every American citizen? Yes without any doubt. Despite our political views, Democrat and Republican. We need to stand up for American freedom.
The tower attacks of September 11th 2001 was without any doubt the most tragic event in American history. I was in junior high school as a 8th grade student. When I heard of the devastating news, I was speechless and didn’t know what to make of it. As for using anger as a grudge, it’s never a good idea. If you’re angry 😤, don’t take it out on someone. Go to the gym and work out your anger and fury and eventually you’ll find peace and harmony.
The problem with this discussion is that only have of the equation has been covered. We can forgive in our heart, our mind, our emotions, but what good is it if there is not reconciliation? How does a person have a reconciliation when the offending party is dead? Or how does a person, after reaching and giving forgiveness, complete the process when the offending person not want to reconcile? What to do with a person who has gravely mistreated you, doesn't believe he or she has done so and in effect rejects your forgiveness and doesn't want any reconciliation?
Gandhi was also dealing with simultaneously, the Islam vs Hindu riots that plagued India @ that time. He fought from a political and humaitarian standpoint to unite the two peoples whom he called, "the two eyes of India" and although he succeeded in many of his now famous endevours, the muslims seperated into what is now called Pakistan. Peace
@Mechanized0 To quote the Federalist: If men were angels, no government would be necessary. If angels were to govern men, neither external nor internal controls on government would be necessary. In framing a government which is to be administered by men over men, the great difficulty lies in this: you must first enable the government to control the governed; and in the next place oblige it to control itself.
@cristianfcao Faith in God is very similar to marriage and that analogy is used often in scripture. As I said earlier, we can know things about God, but it won't quite amount to absolute proof. Knowing those things doesn't diminish free will because the outcome is in some doubt just like a marriage. So just like love in marriage, faith in free will takes constant recommitting of one's self.
@Pi10sco On the contrary, Dr. Paul isn't simply going to "cut one off" from these obviously bankrupt public "services" but rather is interested in creating a transition period. He's frequently emphasized the idea that much of what is spent upon US foreign policy could instead be utilized to shore up social security for the present.
Your excellency, I've been listening to a lot of your talks here on TH-cam and I have found them very thought provoking. Regarding 9-11, do you think God expects us to actually forgive the people responsible for that enormous crime despite the fact that far from asking for our forgiveness or understanding, the people responsible for it gloried and continue to glory in the murder of so many innocent people? If someone who lost someone on that day can forgive unrepentant killers who proudly profess their crimes as the highest form of piety and valor, I think that's wonderful. But does God really expect that? I would like to think that God would be happy if victims of 9-11 simply refused to respond to blind hatred with their own blind hatred.
It is only the Holy Spirit Who could possibly change those who caused the twin-tower destruction. They were hell-bent to fulfill John10-10. IE., "Came only to steal and kill and destroy." Can light and darkness reconcile? No, they are diametrically opposite. I think this is a case where our only freedom from hate and retaliation is to release them to the wise judgment of God... and pray for their repentance. - Tom
@cristianfcao This is a common misunderstanding about time and eternity. When one leaves time and enters eternity, then ones choices become eternal. Simply put, in eternity, rejection is "eternal" rejection. Thankfully, all that is necessary to know God is a DESIRE to know God. When you open your heart, (and your mind) to God's revealation, you will eventually come to know him through his Word. No one will condemn you for your questions, especially not God.
I hear all the time that when God forgives us, He forgets our sin, like He actually doesn't recall it. "I asked Jesus my sins and he said 'I don't know, I've already forgiven it'", is a common story I hear in talks on forgiveness. Would you agree with that statement? What you say at 7:40 seems to say otherwise, unless of course you say that God's forgiveness is more perfect than ours, but then how is God to "forgive us our sins as we forgive"?
@powderdd It is Christian. It's hard to derive this philosophically and to have it resonate to the same degree. Socrates comes closest to it when he maintains that it is more harmful to one's soul to exact revenge when one is wronged, than to suffer violence patiently. Most Athenians of his time, and I suspect most people since, Christians or not, would have a hard time believing that. Jesus taught us that we MUST believe that if we believe in Him.
@cristianfcao My example assumes you know the end result of your action before you make it. In your analogy, even if you know your betrothed really well the result is still uncertain as today's divorce rates show. In fact, your marriage analogy fits what I said perfectly. Choosing to marry someone is an act free will because you don't know where you'll end up. In fact, the Church holds that you *can't* marry unless it's free will. That's why both couples traditionally say 'I do'.
Can we talk about forgiveness in the context of cutting people off from your life, though? I often importantly distinguish forgiveness and reconciliation as related but not the same.
@Pi10sco I am well aware of Dr. Paul's platform having been interested in him since 2003. To repeat, he has no plans to immediately remove Medicare or social security. He prefers (for now) to drastically reduce military expenditures in order to shore of up these programs for the immediate future. In the long term, yes, he would prefer removing these programs. I see nothing wrong with that. In fact, I am quite in favor of it.
@quezcatol "An eye for an eye, yes, making the whole world blind" -Mahatma Ghandi. Retribution is a wawy of conclusion when faced with injustice, there's not doubt about that. The question is though, is that the best way for conclusion, or does it simply lower me to the level of my enemy?
Father Barron-what if I have had a falling out with some good friends? Ever since we have stopped associating with each other, I say to myself I forgive them and hope they forgive me, and I want their good, but I still don't want to associate with them anymore. Would that not be considered true forgiveness in that I don't wish to be friends with them anymore? I admit I do still hold some resentment but generally I am over that.
Gandhi, King, and JPII had the advantage of having rational actors of the Judeo-Christian tradition to forgive. Unfortunately, this is not the case with the Islamists. Otherwise, I agree completely with the ethic you're promoting, Father. Perhaps another video on how best to respond to a group with which the west has never been in community? How to change hearts and minds so alien to our own?
Hello Father Barron. I'm curious for your opinion on this. I'm planning on going on youtube myself for evangelization through the computer. However I wanted to know should I (since I am not a priest/seminarian) go to my local bishop to ask what I should (should not) post? I was planning on doing something along the lines of apologetics, what do you suggest?
@cristianfcao No. Hell is a state in which you put yourself. Those in Hell are the ones who don't want to reconcile with God, in other words, they don't want to be forgiven. The pain of Hell is knowing God's love face to face and rejecting it despite of all His love implies. P.S. - To quote Samuel Johnson "Revenge is an act of passion; vengeance of justice." Basically, Hell isn't unfair.
So, what does this forgiveness look like, in theory and/or praxis, when a spouse walks out on you for another person, robbing you of your desire (and will) to abide by his marriage vows? Particularly if this tethering or attempt at reconciliation is, not possible?
The answer is "you betcha." Gandhi and MLK both wanted also to reap the benefits of the supposedly imposed Anglo culture. As for Pope John Paul II and his Soviet invaders ... As for advocates of the Twin Towers falling ... Forgiveness in its very meaning necessitates some kind of harm having occurred, and perhaps even its recognition.
@Mechanized0 Have you read the man's platform? The EPA, FDA, CDC, Medicare would be eliminated and all the gains made in clean air, clean water, safe and pure drugs, and health care for our parents and grandparents would be placed at risk. Some of my relatives, too, were pretty angry at the federal government; I try not to point out how much worse off they would be without the VA and Medicare for their healthcare.
What if you’re too traumatized by what happened to even see your loved one who hurt you, let alone “draw them back into the loving community”?? Is this really the sin of unforgiveness? Some discussion of trauma would have been good here. It takes many years to get anywhere near this point. And in the meantime the person who caused the trauma blames me for the delay!
@cristianfcao How could it not be Providential? Do you not believe God is Omnipresent? On the Anniversary of an event, which unfortunately some use as an excuse for righteousness of revenge, we get to hear the response of Jesus to Peter's question, how many times must I forgive?
By the way, I'm not the kind of atheist that want religion to completely disappear. I believe a lot of people need the kind of comfort and hope that religions can give them. However I DO want people to discredit those notions in religions that only divide us. The notion of hell is a perfect example of that. Only one people falsely claim to know the Truth and (literally) to hell with the rest of the world. If you don’t agree with me, you should suffer eternally. How’s that not a horrible idea?
@MaeglinIX Ok. I'm glad that you acknowledge that if people positively know that hell exists, they wouldn't reject God. Unlike you, I'd still call that a choice (a very informed one, just as there are many everywhere) but that's not the main issue here. The main issue is why believing without enough evidence is for most Christians so important as to justify eternal suffering for those who don't make that ultimate bet.
@cristianfcao It's important because it isn't a choice then. Without free will love forgiveness and worship are impossible. I can program a computer to say "I love you" but that's not love because it wasn't a choice. Similarly, if someone asks for your trust and you don't until it isn't needed, that trust never happened even if you agree in the end. Rejecting God is similar, and you become hard hearted in the end.
@wordonfirevideo The 10th aniversary of the september 11 attacks is on a Sunday "BY PROVIDENCE"? Come on man! You can't start a video with a statement like that!!! You even had time to edit or redo the segment and yet you didn't do it? Seriously, how can it be by providence?? What would that imply?? You didn't think about that? I'll try to continue to watch the video, but It'll be hard to take you seriously after that opening...
@nosfearic Oh yeah, with the other guy, Gran Torino was a wonderful film and we may not see another like it for awhile. @PEPAspiderman Great suggestion for a movie. I've always enjoyed the films of Clint Eastwood and that was a wonderful film.
Ok. Fortunately the video went better after that that terrible opening. However I was left with a difficulty in reconciling (some pun intended) two ideas: the notion vengeance as being somehow bad and almost any notion of hell I can think of. If hell is eternal (whether there is suffering or not) isn't it an infinite and irrevocable form of vengeance?
@wordonfirevideo Oh I see, but then who wouldn't chose to repent after they are in purgatory already knowing that what the bible was right? Straightforward questions about religions are sometimes odd, but... What percentage of the population would you say will go to hell if they can make an informed choice in purgatory?
@cristianfcao Why would they change their mind though? At that point they have persisted through to the end of their life resisting that same forgiveness and love that is on offer in Heaven. Many people desperately cling to their sins in life because they feel giving them up is giving up their freedom. Decisions like that become who you are, why would there be this dramatic character change?
@Yankeegator To those reading the Koran: please try to get a *balanced* reading, i.e. including the parts where it talks about compassion etc.. And also study the various interpretations of it, including those used by the moderate Muslims who still believe they're following the Koran properly. (BTW: I've only read little bits too). PS: also I don't think it's justified to believe that TV pictures of _some_ cheering students are representative of XX% of Muslims.
@MaeglinIX Can I change my mind when I'm in hell. Can I repent? May God forgive me then? I don't think you are flowing the logic of the argument in the video. On the other hand framing the problem as "you send yourself" instead of "God sends you there" is a bit cheap, specially considering that we are dealing with someone (God) that created that system and that is supposedly omnipotent.
@Blaseboniface I do not believe in God actually, but the notion of a god deciding when to let some tragedy where thousands of people die makes me uncomfortable to say the least. Honestly I can't think how you can handle the HUGE cognitive dissonance of an all powerful / all loving being that "decides" when such a horrible tragedy should occur.
@cristianfcao Saying without evidence is going too far. You don't mean evidence anyway, you mean absolute proof. In the face of such certainty you lose free will; 'you must believe (love) or suffer'. If hell is proven inevitable before you choose, then love is impossible. In life, results vary in love and selfishness. Selfishness is hell on earth and in eternity, but it isn't made clear so that we can have free will, which both choice and love require.
@MaeglinIX You don't lose free will when your choices are obvious. I'm sure you won't share the analogy but for me this discussion is as if I was saying: "I can't get married to a woman unless I'm certain that I love her, that we are very compatible in a number of ways, etc". while you say: "NO! You can only really "love" her once you commit to marry her without being sure about all that!" IMO there's no evidence for a God, only gaps in our knowledge AND EMOTIONS that people fill with a god.
@MaeglinIX What you are claiming is absurd. Why WOULDN'T anyone not repent of not believing in the God of the bible here on earth once they positively know that hell exists by being in hell? If I'm in hell and realize that what the bible said was true, it's obvious that I'd repent. Then why can't God forgive me then! Moreover: why is believing in something NOW without enough evidence SO important as to have irrevocable eternal suffering consequences?
@zztstenglish Yes, for example, we surgically abort more babies each day (to say nothing of those we pay to have aborted in other countries) than the terrorists killed on 09/11/01.
@MaeglinIX As with all analogies, there's never a perfect fit. However, the way I see it, it's like you were asking me to marry someone I don't even know, or worse... an alien or something. I've never seen or experienced anything that remotely supports the belief in something like the god of the bible and it seems absurd that such a being -if he existed- would want to punish me for not believing. Here's a funny video regarding this conversation, btw: /watch?v=qahB7mYhLxs
@cristianfcao How could it not be Providential? Do you not believe God is Omnipresent? On the Anniversary of an event, which unfortunately some use as an excuse for righteousness of revenge, we get to hear the response of Jesus to Peter's question, how many times must I forgive?
I was born a moslim but currently do not hold to any faith. I have to admit, this is biggest strength of christianity : Forgiveness and love. You don't find these two important notions anywhere else. God bless you Bishop Robert.
I pray you will find the TRUTH you seek. And I suggest you subscribe to this channel and also Ascension Presents. These are great resources
My Uncle who is a police officer in NYC was there the day that it happened. He survived, but he lost two of his best friends that day who were also cops. Now that the 10th anniversary is coming up, I'll be praying for my Uncle's two friends who perished that day. Thank you for your message Father.
I wish I had the wisdom of Bishop Barron; not just to speak of it, which is so good; but more importantly, to live from it.
*May God bless you abundantly, Bishop Barron!*
To will the good of the other is a radical approach in a modern world full of self righteous proclamations and accusations. Bishop Barron turns on the light!
It took me almost 50 years to forgive horrible bullying towards me as a young teen. I had to learn it over a lifetime and your message was right. Bless this ministry.
This is really helpful even for mundane domestic issues. I have been very angry about my teenage daughters unwillingness to go to church. This talk helps me understand that my anger is bad if it causes resentment in my heart. The right response is to keep calling them (my daughters) and encouraging them and acting as a loving father. Resentment just festers and eats away at you. God bless you from the bottom of my heart Bishop Barron.
Forgiveness seems to be the one most misunderstood subject of society today. Forgiveness is also the most difficult thing for human beings as we often want to hold onto the hurts and injustices done to us like we would a trophy....God help ME to forgive those who hurt me as you have also forgiven me from your great love....is my cry.
Thank you Bishop Bless you. I go with God. I have been struggling with this act against humankind for many yrs.
Always enjoy listening to your videos Father Barron.
I simply feel sorrow. thank you Bishop
Even though I'm not catholic I really enjoy your videos.
@cristianfcao No idea what you're complaining about. I simply meant that it was providential that we had the opportunity to reflect on the nature of forgiveness on that day.
Christian or not, this is a beautiful philosophy. The best explanation for forgiveness that I have heard.
Beautifully said. God Bless Bishop Robert Barron🙏🏻
Ive gone back to this video a couple times over the past two years, it's really one of your best videos explaining forgiveness and the best thing I've ever heard/seen on the subject. My wife and I were on the subject of anger this morning and she was under the belief that it's always bad or a front to the real emotion. I told her it can be used for good also but I couldn't remember why or how I knew that. Then I googled anger Robert Barron and there it was and I watched this again! Thank you Bishop Barron!
Thank you Fr. Barron for your wisdom. God Bless.
This is the best video yet. It cleared up a lot of issues in my mind!! Thank you, Fr. Barron.
A blessed enlightenment!Thank you, Fr. Barron.
"Anger is a pasion to set things right" I love this im going to qoute you in the future,,
Your Excellency,
I understand your video about anger, wrongdoing, revenge. To be honest, I've done something wrong and that was making my older brother feel like the bad guy and let myself feel good. So my older brother angrily lectured me and during the conversation, I almost started getting more angry and almost started crying. So instead i took deep breaths and exhaled calmly. And to make myself calm, I started praying the Holy Rosary and I felt a comforting presence of The Virgin Mary and Saint Michael. Both of them encouraged me to calm down and get a goodnight's sleep. So I realized that making another person feel bad and myself feel good won't help.
This philosophy has always represented the best of Christianity. A wonderful explination of forgiveness for all people, not just Catholics.
Thanks for your energy and enthusiasm. I would suggest that you talk to your bishop first. He might enquire as to your background in theology and the teaching of the church. God bless you in your work!
Father, I want to thank you for this video. I showed it to my pre-Confirmation class this past Sunday to help in our catechesis on forgiveness. The students were really moved and I feel like my fellow catechist and I were able to get the message of forgiveness and God's mercy across to them. I especially like your idea of saying "This is our problem." It was a great way to tie into Christmas and the Incarnation. Thanks again, Father. God bless!
Shalom. In the almighty Name of Our Lord Jesus Christ. Amen.
@MrElyBlack I had thought something like that might be a good idea. I try to pray for them every day. Thanks so much!
Father needed this. I use to live in a share house and when I told the other housemate I was living he tried making pay all these additional bills and wouldn’t give my bond back. The brain starts wanting vegenance fur the injustice. Anyway thanks for showing the right way.
Interesting way to put it. Ever thought of going father than explaining the word? Seems like you have a good sense and way to explain things. well, blessings to you Brother, thank you all that make this posible may god bless you always.
@Mechanized0 May you never get old. May you never get sick. May you always have plenty of money or monied family to help you if you ever get old and sick. May all of us always behave like angels, never polluting the earth, water, or air in which we all live and of which God has made us stewards. We truly would never need government then.
This is Brilliant, especially from 6:47- 7:35
this is above average. thanks
Thanks Fr.
the more you about God the more it hurts becouse we are all sinners and coming to the Lord is like a burning flame if you still have sin in you
we cannot get close to Jesus or his father even worse we get bien like electric shock and die and never see God becouse of ain unless if he bring us to purgatory help us Lord Jesus help us Mother Mary of Guadalupe amen
As a flight attendant I do mourn what was taken away from us...flying was so much more fun before 911. I never thought of being angry at the hijackers/killers though. It just seemed all so pointless the destruction and so sad, just so sad for New York
Yes, that indeed sounds like atheist moral logic.
What I remember about the twin tower attack of 9\11 2001 and how devastating it was. Was it shocking and devastating to every American citizen? Yes without any doubt. Despite our political views, Democrat and Republican. We need to stand up for American freedom.
The tower attacks of September 11th 2001 was without any doubt the most tragic event in American history. I was in junior high school as a 8th grade student. When I heard of the devastating news, I was speechless and didn’t know what to make of it. As for using anger as a grudge, it’s never a good idea. If you’re angry 😤, don’t take it out on someone. Go to the gym and work out your anger and fury and eventually you’ll find peace and harmony.
@cristianfcao If you desire to repent, you're not in Hell. You're in what the church calls "purgatory."
The problem with this discussion is that only have of the equation has been covered. We can forgive in our heart, our mind, our emotions, but what good is it if there is not reconciliation?
How does a person have a reconciliation when the offending party is dead? Or how does a person, after reaching and giving forgiveness, complete the process when the offending person not want to reconcile? What to do with a person who has gravely mistreated you, doesn't believe he or she has done so and in effect rejects your forgiveness and doesn't want any reconciliation?
Gandhi was also dealing with simultaneously, the Islam vs Hindu riots that plagued India @ that time. He fought from a political and humaitarian standpoint to unite the two peoples whom he called, "the two eyes of India" and although he succeeded in many of his now famous endevours, the muslims seperated into what is now called Pakistan. Peace
@Mechanized0 To quote the Federalist: If men were angels, no government would be necessary. If angels were to govern men, neither external nor internal controls on government would be necessary. In framing a government which is to be administered by men over men, the great difficulty lies in this: you must first enable the government to control the governed; and in the next place oblige it to control itself.
@cristianfcao Faith in God is very similar to marriage and that analogy is used often in scripture. As I said earlier, we can know things about God, but it won't quite amount to absolute proof. Knowing those things doesn't diminish free will because the outcome is in some doubt just like a marriage.
So just like love in marriage, faith in free will takes constant recommitting of one's self.
@Pi10sco On the contrary, Dr. Paul isn't simply going to "cut one off" from these obviously bankrupt public "services" but rather is interested in creating a transition period. He's frequently emphasized the idea that much of what is spent upon US foreign policy could instead be utilized to shore up social security for the present.
Your excellency, I've been listening to a lot of your talks here on TH-cam and I have found them very thought provoking. Regarding 9-11, do you think God expects us to actually forgive the people responsible for that enormous crime despite the fact that far from asking for our forgiveness or understanding, the people responsible for it gloried and continue to glory in the murder of so many innocent people? If someone who lost someone on that day can forgive unrepentant killers who proudly profess their crimes as the highest form of piety and valor, I think that's wonderful. But does God really expect that? I would like to think that God would be happy if victims of 9-11 simply refused to respond to blind hatred with their own blind hatred.
maskirovka77 Yes, we must love even our enemies.
It is only the Holy Spirit Who could possibly change those who caused the twin-tower destruction. They were hell-bent to fulfill John10-10. IE., "Came only to steal and kill and destroy." Can light and darkness reconcile? No, they are diametrically opposite. I think this is a case where our only freedom from hate and retaliation is to release them to the wise judgment of God... and pray for their repentance. - Tom
@cristianfcao This is a common misunderstanding about time and eternity. When one leaves time and enters eternity, then ones choices become eternal. Simply put, in eternity, rejection is "eternal" rejection. Thankfully, all that is necessary to know God is a DESIRE to know God. When you open your heart, (and your mind) to God's revealation, you will eventually come to know him through his Word. No one will condemn you for your questions, especially not God.
I hear all the time that when God forgives us, He forgets our sin, like He actually doesn't recall it. "I asked Jesus my sins and he said 'I don't know, I've already forgiven it'", is a common story I hear in talks on forgiveness. Would you agree with that statement? What you say at 7:40 seems to say otherwise, unless of course you say that God's forgiveness is more perfect than ours, but then how is God to "forgive us our sins as we forgive"?
@Pi10sco "Christian or not" just meant "Whether you're a Christian or not"
is this what is meant when they say: "Proclaim the Gospel everywhere and to everyone, and if you have to, use words"? pax
@powderdd It is Christian. It's hard to derive this philosophically and to have it resonate to the same degree. Socrates comes closest to it when he maintains that it is more harmful to one's soul to exact revenge when one is wronged, than to suffer violence patiently. Most Athenians of his time, and I suspect most people since, Christians or not, would have a hard time believing that. Jesus taught us that we MUST believe that if we believe in Him.
@cristianfcao My example assumes you know the end result of your action before you make it. In your analogy, even if you know your betrothed really well the result is still uncertain as today's divorce rates show.
In fact, your marriage analogy fits what I said perfectly. Choosing to marry someone is an act free will because you don't know where you'll end up. In fact, the Church holds that you *can't* marry unless it's free will. That's why both couples traditionally say 'I do'.
Can we talk about forgiveness in the context of cutting people off from your life, though? I often importantly distinguish forgiveness and reconciliation as related but not the same.
yes indeed forgiveness does not mean reconciliation. Sometimes it's wise to forgive and not reconcile.
If you are genuinely trying to draw someone back into community through forgiveness then I would suggest that that is reconciliation.
@Pi10sco I am well aware of Dr. Paul's platform having been interested in him since 2003. To repeat, he has no plans to immediately remove Medicare or social security. He prefers (for now) to drastically reduce military expenditures in order to shore of up these programs for the immediate future. In the long term, yes, he would prefer removing these programs. I see nothing wrong with that. In fact, I am quite in favor of it.
@quezcatol "An eye for an eye, yes, making the whole world blind" -Mahatma Ghandi. Retribution is a wawy of conclusion when faced with injustice, there's not doubt about that. The question is though, is that the best way for conclusion, or does it simply lower me to the level of my enemy?
Father Barron-what if I have had a falling out with some good friends? Ever since we have stopped associating with each other, I say to myself I forgive them and hope they forgive me, and I want their good, but I still don't want to associate with them anymore. Would that not be considered true forgiveness in that I don't wish to be friends with them anymore? I admit I do still hold some resentment but generally I am over that.
Gandhi, King, and JPII had the advantage of having rational actors of the Judeo-Christian tradition to forgive. Unfortunately, this is not the case with the Islamists. Otherwise, I agree completely with the ethic you're promoting, Father. Perhaps another video on how best to respond to a group with which the west has never been in community? How to change hearts and minds so alien to our own?
Bishop Barron, Must there be repentance by the sinner before we forgive them?
Hello Father Barron. I'm curious for your opinion on this. I'm planning on going on youtube myself for evangelization through the computer. However I wanted to know should I (since I am not a priest/seminarian) go to my local bishop to ask what I should (should not) post? I was planning on doing something along the lines of apologetics, what do you suggest?
@cristianfcao No. Hell is a state in which you put yourself. Those in Hell are the ones who don't want to reconcile with God, in other words, they don't want to be forgiven. The pain of Hell is knowing God's love face to face and rejecting it despite of all His love implies.
P.S. - To quote Samuel Johnson "Revenge is an act of passion; vengeance of justice." Basically, Hell isn't unfair.
So, what does this forgiveness look like, in theory and/or praxis, when a spouse walks out on you for another person, robbing you of your desire (and will) to abide by his marriage vows? Particularly if this tethering or attempt at reconciliation is, not possible?
Anger,
One of the seven deadly sins. If you’re using anger for revenge then it’s sinful and put your salvation in jeopardy.
The answer is "you betcha."
Gandhi and MLK both wanted also to reap the benefits of the supposedly imposed Anglo culture.
As for Pope John Paul II and his Soviet invaders ...
As for advocates of the Twin Towers falling ...
Forgiveness in its very meaning necessitates some kind of harm having occurred, and perhaps even its recognition.
@Mechanized0 Have you read the man's platform? The EPA, FDA, CDC, Medicare would be eliminated and all the gains made in clean air, clean water, safe and pure drugs, and health care for our parents and grandparents would be placed at risk. Some of my relatives, too, were pretty angry at the federal government; I try not to point out how much worse off they would be without the VA and Medicare for their healthcare.
@nosfearic gran torino, but yes I know what you mean, those only come once in a while.
What if you’re too traumatized by what happened to even see your loved one who hurt you, let alone “draw them back into the loving community”?? Is this really the sin of unforgiveness? Some discussion of trauma would have been good here. It takes many years to get anywhere near this point. And in the meantime the person who caused the trauma blames me for the delay!
Sure, forgiveness is alway hard work, and usually the fruit of much time, patiently endured.
@cristianfcao How could it not be Providential? Do you not believe God is Omnipresent? On the Anniversary of an event, which unfortunately some use as an excuse for righteousness of revenge, we get to hear the response of Jesus to Peter's question, how many times must I forgive?
By the way, I'm not the kind of atheist that want religion to completely disappear. I believe a lot of people need the kind of comfort and hope that religions can give them. However I DO want people to discredit those notions in religions that only divide us. The notion of hell is a perfect example of that. Only one people falsely claim to know the Truth and (literally) to hell with the rest of the world. If you don’t agree with me, you should suffer eternally. How’s that not a horrible idea?
@MaeglinIX Ok. I'm glad that you acknowledge that if people positively know that hell exists, they wouldn't reject God. Unlike you, I'd still call that a choice (a very informed one, just as there are many everywhere) but that's not the main issue here. The main issue is why believing without enough evidence is for most Christians so important as to justify eternal suffering for those who don't make that ultimate bet.
@cristianfcao It's important because it isn't a choice then. Without free will love forgiveness and worship are impossible. I can program a computer to say "I love you" but that's not love because it wasn't a choice. Similarly, if someone asks for your trust and you don't until it isn't needed, that trust never happened even if you agree in the end.
Rejecting God is similar, and you become hard hearted in the end.
@wordonfirevideo The 10th aniversary of the september 11 attacks is on a Sunday "BY PROVIDENCE"? Come on man! You can't start a video with a statement like that!!! You even had time to edit or redo the segment and yet you didn't do it? Seriously, how can it be by providence?? What would that imply?? You didn't think about that?
I'll try to continue to watch the video, but It'll be hard to take you seriously after that opening...
@nosfearic Oh yeah, with the other guy, Gran Torino was a wonderful film and we may not see another like it for awhile.
@PEPAspiderman Great suggestion for a movie. I've always enjoyed the films of Clint Eastwood and that was a wonderful film.
Ok. Fortunately the video went better after that that terrible opening. However I was left with a difficulty in reconciling (some pun intended) two ideas: the notion vengeance as being somehow bad and almost any notion of hell I can think of. If hell is eternal (whether there is suffering or not) isn't it an infinite and irrevocable form of vengeance?
@wordonfirevideo Oh I see, but then who wouldn't chose to repent after they are in purgatory already knowing that what the bible was right? Straightforward questions about religions are sometimes odd, but... What percentage of the population would you say will go to hell if they can make an informed choice in purgatory?
@cristianfcao Why would they change their mind though? At that point they have persisted through to the end of their life resisting that same forgiveness and love that is on offer in Heaven. Many people desperately cling to their sins in life because they feel giving them up is giving up their freedom. Decisions like that become who you are, why would there be this dramatic character change?
@Yankeegator To those reading the Koran: please try to get a *balanced* reading, i.e. including the parts where it talks about compassion etc.. And also study the various interpretations of it, including those used by the moderate Muslims who still believe they're following the Koran properly. (BTW: I've only read little bits too).
PS: also I don't think it's justified to believe that TV pictures of _some_ cheering students are representative of XX% of Muslims.
Forgiveness doesn't always mean reconcilliation tho father.
Dear Pastor: is that what you would say to a child who was raped by a priest????
@MaeglinIX Can I change my mind when I'm in hell. Can I repent? May God forgive me then? I don't think you are flowing the logic of the argument in the video. On the other hand framing the problem as "you send yourself" instead of "God sends you there" is a bit cheap, specially considering that we are dealing with someone (God) that created that system and that is supposedly omnipotent.
@Blaseboniface I do not believe in God actually, but the notion of a god deciding when to let some tragedy where thousands of people die makes me uncomfortable to say the least. Honestly I can't think how you can handle the HUGE cognitive dissonance of an all powerful / all loving being that "decides" when such a horrible tragedy should occur.
draw them back into community? man that's too idealistic, no?
@cristianfcao Saying without evidence is going too far. You don't mean evidence anyway, you mean absolute proof. In the face of such certainty you lose free will; 'you must believe (love) or suffer'. If hell is proven inevitable before you choose, then love is impossible.
In life, results vary in love and selfishness. Selfishness is hell on earth and in eternity, but it isn't made clear so that we can have free will, which both choice and love require.
@MaeglinIX You don't lose free will when your choices are obvious. I'm sure you won't share the analogy but for me this discussion is as if I was saying: "I can't get married to a woman unless I'm certain that I love her, that we are very compatible in a number of ways, etc". while you say: "NO! You can only really "love" her once you commit to marry her without being sure about all that!" IMO there's no evidence for a God, only gaps in our knowledge AND EMOTIONS that people fill with a god.
@MaeglinIX What you are claiming is absurd. Why WOULDN'T anyone not repent of not believing in the God of the bible here on earth once they positively know that hell exists by being in hell? If I'm in hell and realize that what the bible said was true, it's obvious that I'd repent. Then why can't God forgive me then! Moreover: why is believing in something NOW without enough evidence SO important as to have irrevocable eternal suffering consequences?
@nosfearic gran torino
@zztstenglish Yes, for example, we surgically abort more babies each day (to say nothing of those we pay to have aborted in other countries) than the terrorists killed on 09/11/01.
@MaeglinIX As with all analogies, there's never a perfect fit. However, the way I see it, it's like you were asking me to marry someone I don't even know, or worse... an alien or something. I've never seen or experienced anything that remotely supports the belief in something like the god of the bible and it seems absurd that such a being -if he existed- would want to punish me for not believing. Here's a funny video regarding this conversation, btw: /watch?v=qahB7mYhLxs
@cristianfcao How could it not be Providential? Do you not believe God is Omnipresent? On the Anniversary of an event, which unfortunately some use as an excuse for righteousness of revenge, we get to hear the response of Jesus to Peter's question, how many times must I forgive?