In my humble opinion, this is the best golf instruction on youtube. The plane shifts in golf have always confused me. There is elbow plane, which is what I think you folks call the money line, then there is shaft plane, sweetspot plane, shouder plane.
I started playing at 16 years old and with no lessons hit it dead straight for about 18 months then I started reading Golf Magazine. Not good. I fell victim to the over shallowing the club for a few years and could not figure out why I was still slicing so bad. I finally stumbled onto the problem and now I hit it much better. For me over the top and over shallowing had the same effect, wicked slices which were a big problem for years. Great video guys.
I have worked with Mike for several months now and in the last two weeks in tournaments using these concepts I have holed two 85-135 yards shots. Live “ on plane” and hit straight shots!!!
Yes you can be too on plane. If you are trying to move the ball in certain directions or get extra speed you can absolutely be "too on" plane. If you want to play decent golf and hit it straight then perfectly on plane is for you.
Underrated point in this vid- you should be able to backswing to P3 and still hit any shot. Lock in those sawed off shots from P3(P5) to P8 until you’ve earned the extra turn to P4 or the finish aesthetics at the end. Going to P4 (vs stopping at P3) is just a little extra sauce, and it shouldn’t drastically change how you get back down to P5. I mean in real life I still turn into Gary Sheffield over the ball but logically this is indisputable. Great video from two awesome dudes.
Awesome I was working on shallowing with a coach recently. I had trouble striking....until I realised it was largely shallow on my backswing it made it so easy to be shallow on the downswing. It transformed my impact and flight and consistency. My challenge now is to groove those feelings to be my ‘normal’ swing. This video is a perfect reference for me other than trying to remember what I did in my lesson. 👍👍👍 ....I can also do the thing with the alignment sticks. One other thing I did which helped was use any reflective surface looking left of me to see if the club head on down and backswing was in line or slightly lower than my right shoulder. This also also helped immensely.
Hi Ian, you've been picked as the winning commenter for the week. Please drop us an email at support@athleticmotiongolf.com so we can get your details to get your prize out to you👍
Great stuff. I've been trying to manipulate my arms and hands to shallow the club...I now know that I just need to shift the weight and let them drop and get the body turning and it will mostly take care of itself. We do tend to overthink the golf swing I think.
I keep my left pointed out on the back swing to eliminate to much of the left hip from turning, and I match that with a turning of the right hip behind me, club flattens out, left hip begins turning and swoosh, next thing you know I'm on The Mouse ride at Kennywood. Mouse in the House. 💪
Practicing "off speed" swings and hitting making left arm parallel swings has been super helpful for me this year. Makes working on mechanical stuff easier to feel and isn't as hard on the body either.
Years ago before we heard the phrase '' shallow '' the club great golfers told us to'' pull the chain down''. ''ring the bell'', simply letting your arms drop .Do you think we have to complicate the golf swing too much with buzz words and the latest thinking,cheers.
Thank you, thank. you, thank you. After watching and understanding this video I was able to get the club on plane on the downswing in about 5 minutes. Great work.
Eureka Guys at last success, shallowing defined for everyone to understand. Up until this moment shallowing for me has remained more of a black hole in space. Teaching methods and verbal instructions aligned with the complexity of Albert Einstein's theory of relativity. Well done.
I would like more clarification on the elbow plane. I feel the right elbow is key to maintaining the structure of the arms. Could you please do a video on the elbow plane? Thank you
It's a swing, not a mechanical shaft movement. Ever been to the playground and swung on the swings? If so, tension is maintained through the swing otherwise if the tension is broken say on the back swing, you fall off your seat and face plant. Same thing with the golf swing, the question is where is the tension maintained? It's maintained in the transition where the lower body begins rotating towards the target a hair before the back swing reaches it's apex, and all the force is maintained through impact then like jumping from the swing into the sand, released at just the right moment. Thanks
Hey guys! About that swing plane wedge: How long is the base and hypotenuse? I'm thinking a home-depot run for some plywood is in the cards! Would you just use that wedge for mid irons shots? I'd assume it would be too flat for wedge plane and too steep for driver? Thanks!!! Oh, and great channel!
my trail shoulder kicks out early, spins out, then a small flip has to happen. How to avoid turning the shoulders early? or what drill should I do? thanks guys, love the content
Thanks guys. This all seems to be predicated on being in the right position in the backswing. But id your swing puts you into an across the line position then you are in trouble. How do we get it into a more "laid off"-type top of the backswing position (relative to a more usual across the line-type) WITHOUT either fanning the club face open on the way back OR sucking the club too much inside and under?
How the right arm folds and the left wrist bends are two BIG factors for keeping the club from getting across at the top. We'll do a video on it. Great question.
Please can you explain what the elbow plane is? AS the back swing progresses the right elbow drops below the blue plane line and the left rises above it! So neither elbow is on the elbow plane! Clearly I am missing something here! IS the plane of both elbows at address? I remain confused! Thank you!
Like using the alignment sticks however how about to stop dropping the club to far inside adding a second set of alignment sticks to the back preventing one to over correct yourself?
Conceptually I get this but for the life of me I can not stop tipping the shaft over from the top and having the club head outside of my hands by shaft parallel. Any drills you do for stubborn people like me?
Heard and been trying the S move, i.e. steep at the end of the back swing and then shallow. Your explanation convinced me to keep it simple: rotation, centrifugal. You have to be a Furyk to do the S move well. THANKS. love that swing board.
Don't be a Furyk. Big Foot could mistaken you for a pretzel 🥨 and slather mustard all over you. Then eat you. Be an amusement park ride instead, where the fun is always found in the centrifugal force. Ever riden The Mouse at Kennywood?
Speaking of benchmarks on this subject I always found this advice to be helpful: In the backswing aim the (butt end of) the shaft towards the target line.
@@quantumpotential7639, good question of a bad comment. I meant the line parallel to your feet but where the ball is placed... in other words (depending on other factors) the line parallel to your feet but another 24" or so from your toes. Put differently, the line created between the ball and the intended target.
Yeah guys I tried all those techniques but just was out of control, so I just lay my right wrist back left wrist follows and it shallows. Thanks guys, good sensible video for an old dog.
I believe you guys know that the right arm can't rotate a lot clockwise. Therefore shallowing by external rotation is hard and restricted naturally. To teach average Joe that move starting Golf at 50 is not so easy. Therefore all your content is valuable and easy to understand.
That one was custom made for Shaun a number of years ago, but you can get something very similar from amazon here: www.amazon.com/Foamnasium-1020-Wedge-Blue/dp/B0067D0MCA/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1547258974&sr=8-2&keywords=foamnasium+wedge
Got to stop turning body before I start club down, very tough any tips? Because you have so many videos, I often have to go back to remember what starts the downswing, slight shift forward. Maybe you should start to number your training vids so we peasants with poor memories can easily go back and watch repeatedly.
Golf is mirrors effect for everything! Hit down - high ball flight Hit up - Low ball flight ( topped the ball ) Right handed - using left hand Left handed - using right Backswing will affected all downswings Swing from inside out - ball turn draw Swing from outside in - ball turn fade You holding the golf club by hand but to generate speed is from the legs 🤯
I’d like to see some of these videos with the tall guy as the subject. Not because I don’t believe it but because I’m 6’4” 240 and it’s hard to emulate a swing of someone that is 5’9. I know the concepts are the same but I think that’s one of the reasons so many people struggle to copy Hogan’s swing. It’s a lot tougher when your arms are super long.
The tall guy has a lot of titanium and screws in his spine, so the start/stop nature of a day of shooting isn't the most back-friendly scenario. He needs a little time to get things loosened up lol. Other tall guys have asked the same thing, so I think we'll find a way to make it work in future shoots👍
Athletic Motion Golf yeah I totally get it. I’ve had 2 back surgeries so I understand. Most of us big guys have all played other sports and have had multiple injuries. I think you guys do a great job do I’m definitely not being negative. Just I started thinking about it because I watch a lot of golf instruction. Doesn’t seem like there are a lot of tall lanky guys. Thanks for the reply. Keep up the great work.
@@rebel1154 Never took your comments as negative at all. Your absolutely right, it does help to see a tall version of what's being shown a lot of time. We shoot a good way in advance, but we'll do our best get some swings in future videos👍
Speaking as a long time suffered from OTP, I can attest to the difficulty of allowing the arms to fall and not actively to try to hit the ball. Until I became able with a combination of gravity and side bend to get my arms to move on plane, I was hopeless. The arms transmit power they don’t generate it.
So what we need is a device that teaches us to keeps the hands coming down in the ‘money slot’ ie elbow plane line, to play good golf? Can you please design, build, and ship this device to me ASAP ;-) I guess this is why if the explanr was set up right, it could help a lot of golfers a few years back.
We need more mathematical formulas taught in golf. That's what's missing. More math, MORE understanding. More understanding, more lower scores. More lower scores, more people happy. More people happy, more golfers come out. More out, more lower scores. And the virtuous circuit continues. More Math formula in golf please. Thanks 👍
Sorry but I couldn’t help noticing Sean’s club was a bit laid off or below the plane after a few backswings as I have this laid off look in my actual swing no matter how much mirror work I put in. May I know what causes this and how does it usually affect ball flight?
Athletic Motion Golf Thanks for recommending the video. I totally understand the hand path coming down 3 to 1 versus going out towards the ball! However, you can still have a steep Club shaft and follow the correct hand path. So my question is, how do you ensure the club shaft flattens when following the correct hand have downward? Thanks, Ron
I really enjoy your videos but this one I don’t feel I can do anything with. What drills to use to help as each swing is different. I certainly have been trying for years to shallow my swing without much success.
Its more of a concept video. Golfers need to understand that the club lowers to the plane...there is really no need to massively lay the club down or severly shallow it out.
It's a feel sort of thing that the weight at the end of the golf club will allow you to tell where flat is relative to the plane you'd like to be on. Right handed? If soz the right hand (the trailing hand) should feel like a waiter's tray supporting the heft of three hurricane cakes (hot brownie, vanilla ice cream, whipped cream, cherry on top) and his primary objective is not to let the tray tilt spilling 3 otherwise ready to be devoured Tastey Delights going all over Judge Smail's wife's blouse, I'm sure she must have been something before electricity. Anyway, don't let that right hand get out in front, keep it under neath supporting the tray until it's time to let the big dog eat, delivering the goods on time everytime through the impact zone, where the cherry 🍒 on top is you consistently putting for birdies and eagles. Thank. Now let us pray 🙏.
Been trying all sorts of different techniques for almost 2 yrs to try and shallow consistently. What's worked for me is to swing the club with your trail arm only and try and mimic that feel which is your body slowly opening and the trail wrist staying bent back while ulnar deviating on the way down. Tip: if you have a lot of radial deviation at the top and across the line like I did, then it is much harder to do as you guys point out if your on plane you have less to do. Took forever for me to get there. The other part of the feel is the trail arm trails your body opening until after impact which means you have to keep your body turning. This all felt "natural" to me with one hand but took awhile to get the feeling with two hands on the club. Whatever technique you use you have to do it very slowly and with a golf ball because your brain will default to your "old" swing when swinging fast when it has a task of hitting the ball. I could also shallow all day not hitting a ball, but as soon as you put a ball down it's default to over the top. Thanks for the great stuff guys.
I think the shallowing effect from this angle (DTL) is also in large part a reaction of the left shoulder radius in the transition. Left shoulders downward movement decreases the chances of the shaft steepening, but the adduction itself also saves a load of work. Great input again and again from AMG.
This is great! Two questions: Can you clarify "elbow plane"? And, Shaun's right elbow is in front of his torso starting down, rather than at his side, if you get what I'm saying. That seems essential to staying on plane. Is that correct? Thanks!
It's the reference line up from the heel of the club up through the trail elbow at address. The elbow doesn't need to be shoved forward or held back coming down.
I have experienced instruction that really emphasized getting the trail elbow in front, which I have found very hard to do. But if that elbow stays back I get a slight tipping forward of the shaft starting the downswing. Not a lot off plane, but the butt of the shaft points just slightly inside the target line rather than on or outside that line when coming down. How crucial is that as a checkpoint? Thanks for your response!
The trail elbow in front is something that can be difficult for golfers, but it's not a necessity. Like many things in the swing, it's a matter of degrees and there are windows of that will work.
Great stuff.... all the video needed was a quick flash of the "Stop the insanity!!!!" chick from the 90's at the beginning.....I appreciate you guys, thank you for the information
Static positions and manipulations should never be contrived; they are the consequence of a good mechanics at the transition. A tilt in the axis occurs when the hips go forward against the completion of the backswing. This makes the shoulders tilt too and that is what drops the club into "the slot". It's unavoidable with good motion and correct sequencing.
So how much history did you study the history of golf (LOL)? A. Back to old Tom Morrison B. Just looks at Mom's Norman's "verticle drop" C. Watched the slow motion golf vids on TV over the weekend D. Actual never studied at all! Now where did I leave my wedge....
Super dooper as ever, but when are you going to help us who suffer with pointing outside the target half way back, and getting across the line at the top :) P.S I'm happy for you to use my swing as an example of pointing slightly outside the ball half way back to slightly across the line at the top.
At face value I've got to strongly disagree with that statement, Salad, but could you explain how the lower body shallows the club so I can better understand where you're coming from?
@@AthleticMotionGolf sry i wasnt clear enough. shallowing of the shaft happens when the downswing hands path is set by the lower body that starts the downswing, hands/arm moves slower than/after the lead should is pulled down momentarily by the lower body. jst cannot shallow the shaft with your arms independent of the lower body.
Not the over the plane variety of "over the top" which is worth making the distinction... there have been great players who brought their hands over their inside backswing hand path, but you'll have to provide a lot of examples to convince us there have been a lot who came down over the top of the plane. Starting the hands down has been around a looooong time.
un·nec·es·sar·i·ly : in a way that is avoidable; needlessly. So maybe golf is about eliminating the avoidable. Like the 10 things running though my brain at address, playing partners who think they are funny by saying to watch out out for that hazard right before you are ready to hit, and my favorite, it’s easy to make that 25 foot putt when you lay 8. See, golf is easy.
3:21 is the feel some people need to shallow it. You're showing everything in slow/static positions which don't correlate to a full speed swing when a ball is being struck.
If you grip too hard it will make this very difficult. Don’t believe me? Try to throw a football with a stiff arm. Aim to be a spaghetti noodle 2 minutes under cooked ;)
I understand what you are saying but you are talking about the pros who have the ultimate in flexibility. Most amateurs are not that flexible. Amateurs by necessity have to make compensations.
Hi Mike, we give far more lessons to amateurs and this info is absolutely attainable by the vast majority of amateur golfers. Sure there are things that pros do that the average golfer will probably never get to experience... BUT there are many things in the swing that can be done by the masses because they aren't dependent on being super flexible, fit, or young. A goal of this channel is to help golfers to understand how to do those things. This is one of those.
If you have any speed whatsoever the club won’t stay shallow if you “pre” shallow the club. There’s a reason 99% of tour players go from steep to shallow and don’t pre set the angle.
I’m almost certain that blue purple thing is a sexual position tool I saw on the golf channel and the movie Burn After Reading. Great video as always though!
Sorry, but you have to do another years of analytics. My English is not as good as it should be, forgive me. The Solution to the problem is not do avoid the problem. It makes it easier... but not right. The problem with the golfswing is, that it is individual. To analyse a golfswing is easy... when you know what you have to look at. When you have a golfswing and you find out that the problem in this swing is that the Club does not shallow and you want to correct this, you have to find the motion the Person makes that stopps or hinders or does not allow the shallowing of the club. That is again: individual. Attention, here it comes: your point 3 is lowering the arms. This has to happen in the right moment AND with the right impuls. If you try to do it, it will not happen consistently. Don‘t force it, just lern to let the arms fall down in the right moment. That is a timing thing AND a thing of remove all of your muskel power. When you use muskel power or an active motion to lower the arms, you will manipulate the shaft on the plane. You lose speed and control. So first you have to teach the Person to lose all the tention in the arms, shoulder, and wrists (otherwise you will maybe shallow the club but you will not build lag). Second you have to teach the Person to use the moment of inertia to let the club to the work in the correct moment. And that is the reason why you will not find the Solution by watching millions of videos. You can not see time in the swingvideo. You can messure time, but you can not see the timing thing. And you need to know that muskelactivity will distroy the hole building. You have to teach building lag and swallowing the club by other methods than you know up to now. Try it without tention, let the club fall, let the moment of inertia (which you can not see and hardly messure) do the work, and do it in the right moment, because as you know, the golfswing is a very short motion (1 second or so....you know that better gehen me). If you want to contact me please do so (martincschaumann@googlemail.com), I know my English should be better.
English is my native language and people tell me all the time it's not very good🙄 so thanks for taking the time to share your thoughts! Yes, agree that the details of fixing an individual golf can be more nuanced than what's in this video. But keep in mind, this video is about the concept of shallowing not really about fixing each individual golf swing that struggles to shallow the club. That wouldn't really be possible to do here on TH-cam.
This is legit. Shallowing the club is bullshit. All you need to do is just let your arms drop essentially straight down a tad before you start to apply the speed, power, turn whatever you want to call it. If you try to apply the power from the top of the swing you're over the top and you're dead. Trying to shallow the club with your arms or hands is damn near impossible.
I agree with this. I use to go all out from the top and had a horrid slice. Lately I've been working on letting my hands drop below my shoulders and then power through. Hit my first ever 300+ yard drive straight as an arrow so it's definitely something I think I'll stick with.
Paul Hartmann basically yes lol, they did explain you can do it that way , I think what you have to realise guys like George need to have a unique selling point and make himself stand out. I steer towards this evidence based demonstration.
Great video again, as usual. If you have relaxed arms and an athletic, mechanically sound golf swing, I agree that the laws of physics will flatten your shaft on the downswing for you ... but I have to admit, I am experimenting with helping those laws of physics by affirmatively flattening my hands just a TINY BIT MORE during the downswing so the shaft flattens and comes from around my body just a little bit more. Do I have your permission to experiment with adding my own very tiny little extra bit of effort? Or would you say, more is not always better (even when it is only a little bit more), especially when a good, mechanically sound golf swing will flatten your shaft enough, and that a flatter shaft may produce a little more power but will likely not be worth the consistency which may get sacrificed, so stop making the swing more complicated than it needs to be, you big dummy?
I'm really sick and tired of golf instruction that is based on real world examples that players can actually apply and get better. Can you guys please stop and create cooking channel? Let's leave the golf instruction to those who would rather be vague and not helpful. I don't like change regardless of whether or not I need it. Lol btw, the last time I was on plane it landed near Disneyland where my golf game resides near the Dumbo ride!
anyone can teach this stuff by talking. can you even show us a full speed swing to prove what you teach?? there are many ways to shallow a club. prove it by making a full swing please.
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Best graphic design paired with straight forward instruction I've seen on any golf channel to date. Keep em coming guys.
Thanks for watching, Milkman!
In my humble opinion, this is the best golf instruction on youtube.
The plane shifts in golf have always confused me. There is elbow plane, which is what I think you folks call the money line, then there is shaft plane, sweetspot plane, shouder plane.
Yep, lots of planes and everything moves on a plane of some sort, but with regards to this top the elbow has done pretty good through history😉
This is the best video on shallowing the club that I have ever seen...and I have seen lots of them. Thank you.
I started playing at 16 years old and with no lessons hit it dead straight for about 18 months then I started reading Golf Magazine. Not good. I fell victim to the over shallowing the club for a few years and could not figure out why I was still slicing so bad. I finally stumbled onto the problem and now I hit it much better. For me over the top and over shallowing had the same effect, wicked slices which were a big problem for years. Great video guys.
I have worked with Mike for several months now and in the last two weeks in tournaments using these concepts I have holed two 85-135 yards shots. Live “ on plane” and hit straight shots!!!
The king of silencers! Can you be too on plane?
Yes you can be too on plane. If you are trying to move the ball in certain directions or get extra speed you can absolutely be "too on" plane. If you want to play decent golf and hit it straight then perfectly on plane is for you.
Underrated point in this vid- you should be able to backswing to P3 and still hit any shot. Lock in those sawed off shots from P3(P5) to P8 until you’ve earned the extra turn to P4 or the finish aesthetics at the end.
Going to P4 (vs stopping at P3) is just a little extra sauce, and it shouldn’t drastically change how you get back down to P5.
I mean in real life I still turn into Gary Sheffield over the ball but logically this is indisputable. Great video from two awesome dudes.
TwoBucksShy wow thanks for the kind words! We appreciate your input
It's a great way to learn how to do it... well said, TBS👊
'Shallowing the club' is a trendy subject with a lot of exaggerated explanations and misconceptions. You guys hit a home run with this video. Thanks
Thanks Ed!
Awesome I was working on shallowing with a coach recently. I had trouble striking....until I realised it was largely shallow on my backswing it made it so easy to be shallow on the downswing. It transformed my impact and flight and consistency. My challenge now is to groove those feelings to be my ‘normal’ swing. This video is a perfect reference for me other than trying to remember what I did in my lesson. 👍👍👍 ....I can also do the thing with the alignment sticks.
One other thing I did which helped was use any reflective surface looking left of me to see if the club head on down and backswing was in line or slightly lower than my right shoulder. This also also helped immensely.
Hi Ian, you've been picked as the winning commenter for the week. Please drop us an email at support@athleticmotiongolf.com so we can get your details to get your prize out to you👍
Shallow is king.... I thought I'd hit low screamers but the loft of the club does its job... also so STRAIGHT... wow Great Video.
Awesome, Don, way to go!
Great stuff. I've been trying to manipulate my arms and hands to shallow the club...I now know that I just need to shift the weight and let them drop and get the body turning and it will mostly take care of itself. We do tend to overthink the golf swing I think.
I keep my left pointed out on the back swing to eliminate to much of the left hip from turning, and I match that with a turning of the right hip behind me, club flattens out, left hip begins turning and swoosh, next thing you know I'm on The Mouse ride at Kennywood. Mouse in the House. 💪
These videos just get better every time. I love how you dispel a lot of the new "myths" that seem to be popping up.
thanks!
Hi guys, love the video thank you so much, where can I get the plane board from ? Cheers
Practicing "off speed" swings and hitting making left arm parallel swings has been super helpful for me this year. Makes working on mechanical stuff easier to feel and isn't as hard on the body either.
Thanks for the video.
Can you please elaborate on feeling to lower the arms?
I assume we want to avoid a pulling motion.
We just shot new videos today that will explain this in good detail. Make sure to subscribe so u don’t miss them 🤓
great video. if we come in shallower, will a lie angle adjustment be necessary to our irons?
Years ago before we heard the phrase '' shallow '' the club great golfers told us to'' pull the chain down''. ''ring the bell'', simply letting your arms drop .Do you think we have to complicate the golf swing too much with buzz words and the latest thinking,cheers.
When I started playing 2008ish I remember “dropping into the slot” is how it was described to me.
Thank you, thank. you, thank you. After watching and understanding this video I was able to get the club on plane on the downswing in about 5 minutes. Great work.
yet again another brilliant easy to follow video. Its refreshing to watch your videos and they really do help
Best instruction video on TH-cam ❤️🙏🏻
Thanks brother!
A gem of a video.
Eureka Guys at last success, shallowing defined for everyone to understand. Up until this moment shallowing for me has remained more of a black hole in space. Teaching methods and verbal instructions aligned with the complexity of Albert Einstein's theory of relativity. Well done.
I would like more clarification on the elbow plane. I feel the right elbow is key to maintaining the structure of the arms. Could you please do a video on the elbow plane? Thank you
It's a swing, not a mechanical shaft movement. Ever been to the playground and swung on the swings? If so, tension is maintained through the swing otherwise if the tension is broken say on the back swing, you fall off your seat and face plant. Same thing with the golf swing, the question is where is the tension maintained? It's maintained in the transition where the lower body begins rotating towards the target a hair before the back swing reaches it's apex, and all the force is maintained through impact then like jumping from the swing into the sand, released at just the right moment. Thanks
Hey guys! About that swing plane wedge: How long is the base and hypotenuse? I'm thinking a home-depot run for some plywood is in the cards! Would you just use that wedge for mid irons shots? I'd assume it would be too flat for wedge plane and too steep for driver? Thanks!!! Oh, and great channel!
Hey where can I get or find one those little plane boards or pads in video?
search foamnasium on amazon👍
Great video, guys as always!!
my trail shoulder kicks out early, spins out, then a small flip has to happen. How to avoid turning the shoulders early? or what drill should I do?
thanks guys, love the content
i just watched your "3 cures for steep", i just have to let my hands fall before turning, so hard to get rid of that move
What did you use to get those two alignment sticks to hold end to end? To make them longer?
Thanks guys. This all seems to be predicated on being in the right position in the backswing. But id your swing puts you into an across the line position then you are in trouble. How do we get it into a more "laid off"-type top of the backswing position (relative to a more usual across the line-type) WITHOUT either fanning the club face open on the way back OR sucking the club too much inside and under?
How the right arm folds and the left wrist bends are two BIG factors for keeping the club from getting across at the top. We'll do a video on it. Great question.
Delay any forearm rotation until at least 8:00 or 8:30
What do you mean by 8:80 or 8:30?
Please do.
Great simple drill but this will help me a lot!
Awesome, let us know how it goes👍
Please can you explain what the elbow plane is? AS the back swing progresses the right elbow drops below the blue plane line and the left rises above it! So neither elbow is on the elbow plane! Clearly I am missing something here! IS the plane of both elbows at address? I remain confused! Thank you!
I find that pulling the grip at the change of direction vs pushing or throwing helps stay on plane. Ron
Like using the alignment sticks however how about to stop dropping the club to far inside adding a second set of alignment sticks to the back preventing one to over correct yourself?
Absolutely 👍
Conceptually I get this but for the life of me I can not stop tipping the shaft over from the top and having the club head outside of my hands by shaft parallel. Any drills you do for stubborn people like me?
Is there a difference between "flattening" and "shallowing"? Are you swallowing the club head or the shaft?
???
Heard and been trying the S move, i.e. steep at the end of the back swing and then shallow. Your explanation convinced me to keep it simple: rotation, centrifugal. You have to be a Furyk to do the S move well. THANKS. love that swing board.
It sure does complicate and add moves to the swing when there's the smallest amount of time to make all those things happen.
Don't be a Furyk. Big Foot could mistaken you for a pretzel 🥨 and slather mustard all over you. Then eat you. Be an amusement park ride instead, where the fun is always found in the centrifugal force. Ever riden The Mouse at Kennywood?
Speaking of benchmarks on this subject I always found this advice to be helpful: In the backswing aim the (butt end of) the shaft towards the target line.
Super helpful!💪
Target line on the ground where the ball is, parallel to your feet? That target line? Or is there another target line you're referencing? Thanks 👍🙏
@@quantumpotential7639, good question of a bad comment. I meant the line parallel to your feet but where the ball is placed... in other words (depending on other factors) the line parallel to your feet but another 24" or so from your toes. Put differently, the line created between the ball and the intended target.
what are the dimension of that pillow? it looks like a great tool
I'll see if we can't get a link for you.
Thanks a lot, that will be nice@@AthleticMotionGolf
Good and Easy to understand golf instructional vid. 👍🏽
Yeah guys I tried all those techniques but just was out of control, so I just lay my right wrist back left wrist follows and it shallows. Thanks guys, good sensible video for an old dog.
Like Shaun says "plain vanilla is undefeated."😊
Where can I get one of those plane boards you have there?
I believe you guys know that the right arm can't rotate a lot clockwise. Therefore shallowing by external rotation is hard and restricted naturally. To teach average Joe that move starting Golf at 50 is not so easy. Therefore all your content is valuable and easy to understand.
Where can i buy one of those foam plane cushions?
That one was custom made for Shaun a number of years ago, but you can get something very similar from amazon here: www.amazon.com/Foamnasium-1020-Wedge-Blue/dp/B0067D0MCA/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1547258974&sr=8-2&keywords=foamnasium+wedge
So simple but so true. Thank you.
Thanks for watching, Ramsay!
Where is your training studio I want to do a week or weekend training
We have studios in Louisiana and Georgia. You can email us at support@athleticmotiongolf is you'd like to schedule some time👍
Great video. You guys are the best
Got to stop turning body before I start club down, very tough any tips? Because you have so many videos, I often have to go back to remember what starts the downswing, slight shift forward. Maybe you should start to number your training vids so we peasants with poor memories can easily go back and watch repeatedly.
Golf is mirrors effect for everything!
Hit down - high ball flight
Hit up - Low ball flight ( topped the ball )
Right handed - using left hand
Left handed - using right
Backswing will affected all downswings
Swing from inside out - ball turn draw
Swing from outside in - ball turn fade
You holding the golf club by hand but to generate speed is from the legs 🤯
One thing I found that help me was to swing two clubs together. If you try to go steep it's hard to swing the club.
That's a good one, Matthew💪
Mike or Shaun, you meant practicing with heavy club can help swing on plane?
Where can I get that plane board?
I’d like to see some of these videos with the tall guy as the subject. Not because I don’t believe it but because I’m 6’4” 240 and it’s hard to emulate a swing of someone that is 5’9. I know the concepts are the same but I think that’s one of the reasons so many people struggle to copy Hogan’s swing. It’s a lot tougher when your arms are super long.
The tall guy has a lot of titanium and screws in his spine, so the start/stop nature of a day of shooting isn't the most back-friendly scenario. He needs a little time to get things loosened up lol. Other tall guys have asked the same thing, so I think we'll find a way to make it work in future shoots👍
Athletic Motion Golf yeah I totally get it. I’ve had 2 back surgeries so I understand. Most of us big guys have all played other sports and have had multiple injuries. I think you guys do a great job do I’m definitely not being negative. Just I started thinking about it because I watch a lot of golf instruction. Doesn’t seem like there are a lot of tall lanky guys. Thanks for the reply. Keep up the great work.
@@rebel1154 Never took your comments as negative at all. Your absolutely right, it does help to see a tall version of what's being shown a lot of time. We shoot a good way in advance, but we'll do our best get some swings in future videos👍
Great content guys simple and easy to put into practice.
Thanks buddy👊
Speaking as a long time suffered from OTP, I can attest to the difficulty of allowing the arms to fall and not actively to try to hit the ball. Until I became able with a combination of gravity and side bend to get my arms to move on plane, I was hopeless. The arms transmit power they don’t generate it.
Tell that to Ronnie Coleman, 8 time Mr Olympia.
where can i get a plane board???
So what we need is a device that teaches us to keeps the hands coming down in the ‘money slot’ ie elbow plane line, to play good golf?
Can you please design, build, and ship this device to me ASAP ;-)
I guess this is why if the explanr was set up right, it could help a lot of golfers a few years back.
I'm not sure how to resolve this video with a two part prior videos of "Shallowing the club" parts one and two.
What's giving you trouble, Jack?
So it should start with backswing not crossing target line at top
That's a good place to start👍
A golf tutorial on shallowing that's not a Physics lesson. Brilliant!
We need more mathematical formulas taught in golf. That's what's missing. More math, MORE understanding. More understanding, more lower scores. More lower scores, more people happy. More people happy, more golfers come out. More out, more lower scores. And the virtuous circuit continues. More Math formula in golf please. Thanks 👍
Sorry but I couldn’t help noticing Sean’s club was a bit laid off or below the plane after a few backswings as I have this laid off look in my actual swing no matter how much mirror work I put in. May I know what causes this and how does it usually affect ball flight?
Can you explain the elbow plain in more detail please?
Check this one out, Ron: th-cam.com/video/J7yQorZyD3Y/w-d-xo.html
Athletic Motion Golf Thanks for recommending the video. I totally understand the hand path coming down 3 to 1 versus going out towards the ball! However, you can still have a steep Club shaft and follow the correct hand path. So my question is, how do you ensure the club shaft flattens when following the correct hand have downward? Thanks, Ron
I really enjoy your videos but this one I don’t feel I can do anything with. What drills to use to help as each swing is different. I certainly have been trying for years to shallow my swing without much success.
Its more of a concept video. Golfers need to understand that the club lowers to the plane...there is really no need to massively lay the club down or severly shallow it out.
It's a feel sort of thing that the weight at the end of the golf club will allow you to tell where flat is relative to the plane you'd like to be on. Right handed? If soz the right hand (the trailing hand) should feel like a waiter's tray supporting the heft of three hurricane cakes (hot brownie, vanilla ice cream, whipped cream, cherry on top) and his primary objective is not to let the tray tilt spilling 3 otherwise ready to be devoured Tastey Delights going all over Judge Smail's wife's blouse, I'm sure she must have been something before electricity. Anyway, don't let that right hand get out in front, keep it under neath supporting the tray until it's time to let the big dog eat, delivering the goods on time everytime through the impact zone, where the cherry 🍒 on top is you consistently putting for birdies and eagles.
Thank.
Now let us pray 🙏.
Wish I found this channel
Sooner
Shallow and deep, shallow to steep, poetry...! 👍
Been trying all sorts of different techniques for almost 2 yrs to try and shallow consistently. What's worked for me is to swing the club with your trail arm only and try and mimic that feel which is your body slowly opening and the trail wrist staying bent back while ulnar deviating on the way down. Tip: if you have a lot of radial deviation at the top and across the line like I did, then it is much harder to do as you guys point out if your on plane you have less to do. Took forever for me to get there. The other part of the feel is the trail arm trails your body opening until after impact which means you have to keep your body turning. This all felt "natural" to me with one hand but took awhile to get the feeling with two hands on the club. Whatever technique you use you have to do it very slowly and with a golf ball because your brain will default to your "old" swing when swinging fast when it has a task of hitting the ball. I could also shallow all day not hitting a ball, but as soon as you put a ball down it's default to over the top. Thanks for the great stuff guys.
I think the shallowing effect from this angle (DTL) is also in large part a reaction of the left shoulder radius in the transition. Left shoulders downward movement decreases the chances of the shaft steepening, but the adduction itself also saves a load of work. Great input again and again from AMG.
thanks Chris👊
This is great! Two questions: Can you clarify "elbow plane"? And, Shaun's right elbow is in front of his torso starting down, rather than at his side, if you get what I'm saying. That seems essential to staying on plane. Is that correct? Thanks!
It's the reference line up from the heel of the club up through the trail elbow at address. The elbow doesn't need to be shoved forward or held back coming down.
I have experienced instruction that really emphasized getting the trail elbow in front, which I have found very hard to do. But if that elbow stays back I get a slight tipping forward of the shaft starting the downswing. Not a lot off plane, but the butt of the shaft points just slightly inside the target line rather than on or outside that line when coming down. How crucial is that as a checkpoint? Thanks for your response!
The trail elbow in front is something that can be difficult for golfers, but it's not a necessity. Like many things in the swing, it's a matter of degrees and there are windows of that will work.
Great stuff.... all the video needed was a quick flash of the "Stop the insanity!!!!" chick from the 90's at the beginning.....I appreciate you guys, thank you for the information
All well and good without hitting a ball with intention
Static positions and manipulations should never be contrived; they are the consequence of a good mechanics at the transition.
A tilt in the axis occurs when the hips go forward against the completion of the backswing. This makes the shoulders tilt too and that is what drops the club into "the slot". It's unavoidable with good motion and correct sequencing.
So how much history did you study the history of golf (LOL)?
A. Back to old Tom Morrison
B. Just looks at Mom's Norman's "verticle drop"
C. Watched the slow motion golf vids on TV over the weekend
D. Actual never studied at all!
Now where did I leave my wedge....
So like Garcia, Furyk, Bubba and DJ?
Good luck with that
Super dooper as ever, but when are you going to help us who suffer with pointing outside the target half way back, and getting across the line at the top :)
P.S I'm happy for you to use my swing as an example of pointing slightly outside the ball half way back to slightly across the line at the top.
The shallowing is causing my long irons to block ... but 7,8,9 irons are fine
Sorry this is way to simple, this could actualy help golfers get better, we want a complicated answer to a simple problem LOL. great video guys
Andrew Linch 😂😂😂😂😂
😂 or we could do that.
Practice the Faldo drill
Don't let George Gankas see this vid 0_0
shallowing isnt done by the hands but lower body
At face value I've got to strongly disagree with that statement, Salad, but could you explain how the lower body shallows the club so I can better understand where you're coming from?
@@AthleticMotionGolf sry i wasnt clear enough. shallowing of the shaft happens when the downswing hands path is set by the lower body that starts the downswing, hands/arm moves slower than/after the lead should is pulled down momentarily by the lower body. jst cannot shallow the shaft with your arms independent of the lower body.
Ha ha ha good one boys you just bankrupt the entire farce of most golf instruction. This maybe only video ever needed.
Hahaha😊 There are plenty of good instructors out there teaching this kind of info... maybe not the loudest but they're out there😉
Alot of great players that you've studied had hands that came out or "over the top" dropping the hands straight down is more of a modern move guys
Not the over the plane variety of "over the top" which is worth making the distinction... there have been great players who brought their hands over their inside backswing hand path, but you'll have to provide a lot of examples to convince us there have been a lot who came down over the top of the plane. Starting the hands down has been around a looooong time.
un·nec·es·sar·i·ly : in a way that is avoidable; needlessly. So maybe golf is about eliminating the avoidable. Like the 10 things running though my brain at address, playing partners who think they are funny by saying to watch out out for that hazard right before you are ready to hit, and my favorite, it’s easy to make that 25 foot putt when you lay 8. See, golf is easy.
haha so true
Amen!
👊
3:21 is the feel some people need to shallow it. You're showing everything in slow/static positions which don't correlate to a full speed swing when a ball is being struck.
This makes too much sense it can’t be right!
I guess matthew wolfe is the exception
If you grip too hard it will make this very difficult. Don’t believe me? Try to throw a football with a stiff arm. Aim to be a spaghetti noodle 2 minutes under cooked ;)
I understand what you are saying but you are talking about the pros who have the ultimate in flexibility. Most amateurs are not that flexible. Amateurs by necessity have to make compensations.
shotlink mike not if they keep hands in money slot.
Hi Mike, we give far more lessons to amateurs and this info is absolutely attainable by the vast majority of amateur golfers. Sure there are things that pros do that the average golfer will probably never get to experience... BUT there are many things in the swing that can be done by the masses because they aren't dependent on being super flexible, fit, or young. A goal of this channel is to help golfers to understand how to do those things. This is one of those.
If you have any speed whatsoever the club won’t stay shallow if you “pre” shallow the club. There’s a reason 99% of tour players go from steep to shallow and don’t pre set the angle.
I say this not as an opinion but as a matter of fact, you could not be more wrong with both of your statements.
I’m almost certain that blue purple thing is a sexual position tool I saw on the golf channel and the movie Burn After Reading. Great video as always though!
Sorry, but you have to do another years of analytics. My English is not as good as it should be, forgive me. The Solution to the problem is not do avoid the problem. It makes it easier... but not right. The problem with the golfswing is, that it is individual. To analyse a golfswing is easy... when you know what you have to look at. When you have a golfswing and you find out that the problem in this swing is that the Club does not shallow and you want to correct this, you have to find the motion the Person makes that stopps or hinders or does not allow the shallowing of the club. That is again: individual. Attention, here it comes: your point 3 is lowering the arms. This has to happen in the right moment AND with the right impuls. If you try to do it, it will not happen consistently. Don‘t force it, just lern to let the arms fall down in the right moment. That is a timing thing AND a thing of remove all of your muskel power. When you use muskel power or an active motion to lower the arms, you will manipulate the shaft on the plane. You lose speed and control. So first you have to teach the Person to lose all the tention in the arms, shoulder, and wrists (otherwise you will maybe shallow the club but you will not build lag). Second you have to teach the Person to use the moment of inertia to let the club to the work in the correct moment. And that is the reason why you will not find the Solution by watching millions of videos. You can not see time in the swingvideo. You can messure time, but you can not see the timing thing. And you need to know that muskelactivity will distroy the hole building. You have to teach building lag and swallowing the club by other methods than you know up to now. Try it without tention, let the club fall, let the moment of inertia (which you can not see and hardly messure) do the work, and do it in the right moment, because as you know, the golfswing is a very short motion (1 second or so....you know that better gehen me).
If you want to contact me please do so (martincschaumann@googlemail.com), I know my English should be better.
English is my native language and people tell me all the time it's not very good🙄 so thanks for taking the time to share your thoughts!
Yes, agree that the details of fixing an individual golf can be more nuanced than what's in this video. But keep in mind, this video is about the concept of shallowing not really about fixing each individual golf swing that struggles to shallow the club. That wouldn't really be possible to do here on TH-cam.
60 years ago I was told told to point The Club at my target at the top of my backswing that'll solve the problem.
Soooooo, in other words, adopt a 1 plane swing like Ricky Flower.
Not at all... this isn't predicated on any 1 or 2 plane categorizing of swings.
This is legit. Shallowing the club is bullshit. All you need to do is just let your arms drop essentially straight down a tad before you start to apply the speed, power, turn whatever you want to call it. If you try to apply the power from the top of the swing you're over the top and you're dead. Trying to shallow the club with your arms or hands is damn near impossible.
Keep spreading that word, Ashley👊
I agree with this. I use to go all out from the top and had a horrid slice. Lately I've been working on letting my hands drop below my shoulders and then power through. Hit my first ever 300+ yard drive straight as an arrow so it's definitely something I think I'll stick with.
Please can i have some free stuff
So what you are saying is that George Gankis is just WRONG!...?
Paul Hartmann basically yes lol, they did explain you can do it that way , I think what you have to realise guys like George need to have a unique selling point and make himself stand out. I steer towards this evidence based demonstration.
So basically...just stay on plane
I feel like it's a jab at GG's teaching
Only thing they're good at.
Great video again, as usual. If you have relaxed arms and an athletic, mechanically sound golf swing, I agree that the laws of physics will flatten your shaft on the downswing for you ... but I have to admit, I am experimenting with helping those laws of physics by affirmatively flattening my hands just a TINY BIT MORE during the downswing so the shaft flattens and comes from around my body just a little bit more. Do I have your permission to experiment with adding my own very tiny little extra bit of effort? Or would you say, more is not always better (even when it is only a little bit more), especially when a good, mechanically sound golf swing will flatten your shaft enough, and that a flatter shaft may produce a little more power but will likely not be worth the consistency which may get sacrificed, so stop making the swing more complicated than it needs to be, you big dummy?
Stupid example
I'm really sick and tired of golf instruction that is based on real world examples that players can actually apply and get better. Can you guys please stop and create cooking channel? Let's leave the golf instruction to those who would rather be vague and not helpful. I don't like change regardless of whether or not I need it. Lol btw, the last time I was on plane it landed near Disneyland where my golf game resides near the Dumbo ride!
Hahaha... we're thinking about starting an eating channel😂
First video: How to shallow the spatula into the skillet. You guys will go viral!
anyone can teach this stuff by talking. can you even show us a full speed swing to prove what you teach?? there are many ways to shallow a club. prove it by making a full swing please.