I tell my wife that I'm mil-spec. I'm not the best, or the cheapest, but I get the job done. Her reply is that I am indeed reliable, but also easy to replace. She gets me. Love.
just remember 239 Rules of Acquisition "Never be afraid to mislabel a product." a lot of companies that aren't afraid to use Buzzwords like "gaming" "MIL-SPEC" "German Engineering"
I love when people say, "but this part/rifle/ect is mil spec!," but have no clue what the specs are, or where to find them. It has become a buzzword that gets abused often.
@ZenoSwarm Sucks! Yeah made to standards of the military which means it should be fairly reliable under normal conditions. Which is lots of carrying, storing, and occasional use.
You generally won't until your activities with it start exceeding military design specifications. Example the mil-spec military M-16's are designed for minimal cost, and to perform under nominal conditions. 2000 rounds in 6 hours at a range is not within those parameters. It's something a match shooter, trainer, or just somebody with money to burn does. So there are many $2,000+ rifles that far exceed mil-spec to function under extreme conditions such as that. Example I have a couple of mil-spec AR's no issue with either but I don't bump fire them for 400+ rounds at the range for giggles, and I can't afford to shoot 2000 rounds on a Saturday for any reason. People forget 99% of combat is walking around being bored, with 15 - 30 minutes of pure chaos thrown in here or there. Most mil-spec rifles are fine for that but do it every week and you'll find the weak spots pretty fast. Luckily you can take a basic AR-15 add a forged bolt, adjustable gas block, and a heavy profile barrel and now you have a rifle that will run happy for hours and hours. Everything else really is just farkles.
In my twenty years on active duty, I was heavily involved in the requirements for, the procurement of, and the associated budgeting and management for all sorts of “MilSpec” systems and materials (tactical aviation, not small arms). And I can guarantee that there is a real difference in the processes and the certification of MilSpec items, as contrasted to “commercial” items. Incidentally, Steve did a fine job of explaining this. This does NOT suggest that commercial items cannot be equal - or superior - to MilSpec, they certainly can be. BUT - and this is a damn big “but” - there is are no methods, processes and certifications to ensure that they will be. And that’s the crucial difference.
@@lynnhunley7597 At least you had ear plugs 😉 . In my twenty years on active duty, never once did I receive or use hearing protection. Of course, the result is the VA has assessed my hearing loss - in all frequency ranges and in both ears - as profound.
Known failure is better then higher quality but unknown failure. Since it’s a mystery it can’t be trusted. My gamer guns use a variety of parts, some of suspicious provenance. But for life and liberty I’m going with known equipment every time, even of despite its inferior quality.
Definitely don't go by the slant, when determining commercial or mil spec. I bought a stock for my flat tube thinking it was mil spec, and turns out it was commercial. My extra tube with the slanted back, was mil spec diameter...
I used to work at a place that did a lot of milspec work. Some of the inspections our stuff went through was unreal. They actually peeled paint off of shipping/storage boxes we made to measure the thickness. They would completely disassemble 3 boxes every month to inspect every aspect of the construction and materials.
It means the same thing as "to code" when building a house. it is just a set of specifications to operate safely/properly. It does not mean low quality.
Mil-spec or Military Specification is a HIGHLY detailed set of specifications to assure the quality of a product is suitable for use by the United States Military forces. It isn't cheap and the specs aren't flexible.
I love these videos and I've been watching them for years. You're expertise and knowledge has really been helpful for me as I've learned the ins-and-outs of the several AR builds I've done.
Caleb, please... ...for the love of all that is good. Shave the sideburns. I can’t help but think you came straight from performing in a musical that’s set in the 1960’s. 🤣 Definitely appreciate the smythbuster series you all do!
I worked in a machine shop. The milspec we worked on had a paper trail that included everything even the metallurgy. They have a certain quality standard that has to be met. It's a great standard as long as it doesn't get watered down. Can we build things better? Yes, but milspec means or should mean i can take any part I find and be confident it will work with another part designed to work together....
That's why we all should buy from a reputable company like Brownells. I wish one of these companies would come out and list all the companies and the Chinese receivers that are branded and are sold as superior units. That would surely help a lot of people unknowingly buying cheap knock offs.
I feel like because mil spec stuff is no frills, it sometimes gets connected to low quality which isn't fair but is understandable for people new to ar's.
From Wikipedia---. According to the Government Accountability Office (GAO), military specifications "describe the physical and/or operational characteristics of a product", while military standards "detail the processes and materials to be used to make the product." Military handbooks, on the other hand, are primarily sources of compiled information and/or guidance. The GAO acknowledges, however, that the terms are often used interchangeably
From my experience, it seems as though a lot of companies throw around "mil-spec" very loosely. The item may or may not actually measure up to the complete mil-spec, maybe just the key dimensions of a mil-spec part. It totally floors me to see a billet receiver advertised as "mil-spec."
@@ikeepgettinbanned5525 nothing wrong with billet, just that they are not mil spec. Mil spec specifically stated that a receiver is made from a forging.
In basic training, I saw a drill sgt. seize an m-16 from a knucklehead and THROW it across the company training area. It hit the ground with a sickening *cack! and skuttled into a curb. The drill sgt. made the private low-crawl after it. Not only did that rifle still work, that soldier scored like, 34 or 35 out of 40 on the range the next day. That's damn near "expert" qualification. That's mill spec stuff.
I've seen the definition of "mil-spec" change quite a bit depending on the manufacturer. Companies (especially cheap ones) take liberties with the term, because they know putting it on their products will sell them.
It's important to understand ALL of the specification, though. For example, the military specification for an M-4 trigger is 5.5 to 8.5 pounds. There are many very fine commercially available triggers with a pull weight of less than 5.5 pounds. There's absolutely nothing wrong with them and in fact may be the better product for a particular application (competition, for example) than the mil-spec "equivalent", but they don't meet the military specification. Every time I hear somebody brag about mil-spec parts, I remember that at one point in my life, I wore mil-spec boxers and socks. Everything has a mil-spec equivalent.
Exactly. Mil-spec means it meets military specifications, no more, no less. Everything in the military is "mil=spec," from socks to F-35. It may be cheap or expensive, but it is not a qualification for quality.
@@barrygrant2907 WRONG! Mil-Spec products, produced for the military, go through 5 to 10 (pending what the product is) more inspections steps than most commercial grade products of the same item. They also have extensive testing of incoming materials received at the factory; and in many cases a full time government inspector resident in that factory (I was one). This not only assures higher quality, but also consistency of quality, and consistency of fit and function. Believe me, if this were not the case, there would be "whistleblowers" coming out of the cracks in the pavement - because everyone wants to "catch" the government.
Dunno, my "mil-spec" stuff all has Colt cage codes but I ain't worrying. My "cheapo" Ruger AR556 had run like a top for awhile so it's a hard call what's what in the AR market IMO.
@James Borek the AR556 I have seems to have a fairly accurate barrel, but I kinda doubt their push/pivot pins and holes are "mil-spec" (at least, they weren't MACHINED to "mil-spec" if they are supposed to be) .
@@ross8270 Depends what you need it for, for home defense I want it absolutely silent, a rattle may get you killed if you're sneaking in the dark to check why the window just broke. I don't have an AR-15 nor am I an expert on them (I've shot maybe 6-7 shots with one in all my life, so take it as a grain of salt), but I think you can get a wedge for them that fills the gap, or it looks like you could add a shim (cardboard might even work for a little while if you needed for hunting and didn't want to spook your prey). It seems like it would be an easy problem to solve though, but people like my dad wouldn't care (the engine sounds like its trying to fall out of the car, the wheel bearings sound like rocks hitting things, and so many noises and vibrations in his car that he can't hear that its absolutely terrifying, but that's also coming from me and I tack welded half my motorcycles nuts and bolts because I didn't like tightening them all the time and they'd vibrate and fall out, lol!).
I had an XM-16E1 (seriously) when I went through Army basic Training in 1985. The thing rattled a fair bit. I still shot a 34, 2 under Expert with the POS.
Mil-spec just means your parts should work with other mil-spec parts. It does NOT mean it's lower or higher quality. It just means it's within the officially defined acceptable dimensions for these parts. It exists to avoid having to hand-fit parts together.
Its more than just fitment and parts interchangeability. There are specs for acceptable materials, heat treatment processes, acceptable part life/wear, and even how the part is manufactured. Everything from the sourced raw materials, to the dimensions and tolerances, and way its manufactured is spec'd, recorded, and controlled.
I have known from my years in the military, where mil-spec is basically (yes, there are some exceptions) is almost all that we had, and I can say that it is basically the direct opposite of low quality. Yes, the military needs to keep cost in mind with procurement, but those mil-spec standards make it far easier to ensure that we have equipment that will stand up to the rigors of combat and greatly lessen the chance of failure in situations where it is quite literally a matter of life and death.
Beware of "billet" versus forged got stung on that one bought a billet upper which I had thought would be better turns out it was turned out of 6061 instead of 7075 it was cheap and it's true colors shown through the fit on the lower was sloppy very .I spent a little more on a forged upper and the fit and finish is much better.
to me it also means that when Im looking threw a selection of parts and am worried about fitment and function, when I see Mil-spc I know that this one will work and fit. so when in any doubt I will Always go for one that says it is quality of build and materials are Mil-spc.
When I see mil-spec, I think mil-spec standard and verified by inspection through the manufacturing process. Far be it from low standard, I see mil-spec as top guality.
It can also mean: magazines coated for failure to safe a nickel, tolerances loose enough for improved reliability, overgassed for the same reason. I rather go for details or look up the standard that something is said to fulfill. Case by Case.
My military has criteria to be preferred, one of the criteria is affordability. I attempt to step over that line to find products above the quality of “milspec” stuff.
Just had to meet the dimensions, didn't say anything about it working or reliability... From what I've heard that's not uncommon for military magazine styles, and I understand why (to get something certified even if its 10 or 100x more reliable costs an insane amount, and then you still have to get your customer to buy it which for commercial market not a big deal they will flock to the improved product but military needs to do trail testing and procurement and then you still have to win a massive contract, so most likely you'll be stuck with failing garbage until they change systems). For example, what I do on the weekend for fun requires a month of waiting for a board to review, (that's not counting my boss and team, that's actually really easy and at worst is a week for the weekly meetings), but then this has to get drafted and approved by the slow committee, then it has to be redrafted for exact test procedure for FAA submissal, and then assuming the weather hasn't changed (and it always does), go do the 30 minute test.... I could see if this was handling a nuke, but its a very low risk test and you might as well just test on the test stand because you don't have months for the entire project let alone one validation test. Its really that slow. And we're talking about things not much more dangerous than a DJI phantom, like its astounding we have anything improving for our military..
The original Beretta mags worked fine in Iraq. Beretta supplied Egypt and other Middle East military so they have a lot of experience with fine dust. However, U.S. Ordnance second sourced mags from Checkmate Industries with a different finish. The finish on those mags trapped desert sand between the inside walls and the brass casings. That led to failures to feed.
@@jakegarrett8109 mil specifications are more than dimensions. It’s whatever is wrote into the specification from hardness, surface roughness, surface coating, yield strength, fatigue strength, ingress protection (dirt and moisture), life cycle, endurance limit, and yes reliability, etc, etc. The specification can include any measurably property and performance value. Just because a part is mil-spec doesn’t mean it won’t fail in service. The spec could be lacking, the part could have poor QC, the part could have been used incorrectly or beyond the design intent.
@@pauldeahl3980 Yep, I've had a little experience with military specifications (material and heat treatment/paint code/and then the technical specifications and tolerances). My point was more that the spec doesn't include if it functions (hopefully it does, but if I designed it wrong or didn't account for tolerances then its only going to be as good as my dumb design, haha!) I don't think I've ever written a fatigue or yield strength spec, but that should be something that can be back calculated from the dimensions plus material. Screws and fasteners are probably where that is seen the most and commonly listed.
Military grade literally means built tough enough to withstand the harshest environments and combat conditions. You can be the lowest bidder on a specific contract but the gear still must meet the military requirements. Generally the contracts are so large that gear can be made for a lesser price per unit because of large volume of order. Long after the military service life of an item is reached…. It’s then sold military surplus and used by civilians for decades afterwards.
Military grade literally means built tough enough to withstand the harshest environments and combat conditions. You can be the lowest bidder on a specific contract but the gear still must meet the military requirements. Generally the contracts are so large that gear can be made for a lesser price per unit because of large volume of order. Long after the military service life of an item is reached…. It’s then sold military surplus and used by civilians for decades afterwards
Known/tested parts at a known performance level. Mil Spec is the reason the AR is as modular as it is. Manufactures stick to certain dimensions and tolerances. Unlike the AR10 platform.
😂 who ever told you that was a 🤡 - military always goes for cheapest bidder or a company that's willing to drop their price so they can get a govt contract.. you sound like a 🤡
The new Sig literally wasn't fully put through the trials, had more malfunctions half of which most people don't know about besides the drop safe issue, and simply was the lowest bidder. Military contracts boil down to who is blowing who under the table. Now if it's not just a sidearm but a mainstream item like a rifle they have to be more careful but in the end they'll blame the manufacturer like they did in Vietnam.
I don't know . I have family that's served in the 70s / 2004 and they all say mill spec to them mean best price for ok quality . Witch means you're getting crap .
Unless it's certified as meeting mil-spec, you can call something anything you want, as in "doctor recommended" or "rated #1" the best advice is to buy from trusted, well reviewed makes.
Is there any sort of legal requirement for a company to actually abide by the "military specs" when calling something mil-spec? Often wondered if companies use it as a general term for "basic part".
Ok I have a question ? So I got a bear creek arsenal upper I replaced the bolt carrier group with a Wilson Combat bcg and a giessele charging handle. Then threw it on a palmetto lower. How good do you think it is so far how can I make it better?
Depends what you want, they sell almost everything from what I've checked (side chargers, lefty's, opposite hand lefties, and almost every caliber God has ever blessed seems to be available). They sell heavy to regular barrels and with fluting in between, so its not "what is better" so much as "what do you want out of it?" and "what's better for you?" (like should you get the heavy barrels for precision or possibly high speed firing, or if you're carrying it every day probably go with a pencil barrel (thin and light), or if you just want bling I think there are carbon fiber wrapped composite barrels or for corrosive environments stainless steel with potentially coatings on top of that (and that's just a few of the popular barrel options, ignoring caliber selection). That's the beauty of your own build, its like car modifications, do what you want because everyone is different. My top picks would be: Ultra light build (hybrid composite upper with a WWSD monocoque composite lower, carbon fiber buffer tube, carbon fiber minimalistic handguard, custom carbon fiber magazines (I would do those myself, I can do carbon layups), and a red dot. or I would go heavy: non-fluted extra heavy custom barrel (possibly water cooling jacket), steel handguard and billet steel lower (or Titanium if it was a dream build), fixed A2 stock, heavy bipod and thermal optics 45 degree mounted with 24x main optic (something like that would be awesome for stationary plinking or hog hunting, suppressed of course to lessen hearing damage). then a couple absolutely wild dream builds that would never be practical or functional, just hilarious and fun (kind of like a Tommy gun, the best at nothing but everyone would want to hold it and say hello to my little friend!) So you do you. Change what you hate, or keep it, I don't think many burglars are going to scoff for long at the end of a barrel.
mil spec means you can mortar the gun against the ground without worrying about it breaking or you can throw the gun over a wall before you jump over it
@@patrickhenderson488 For most people they're perfectly adequate. I used a 6061 commercial buffer tube for over 10 years up until recently. Never had a problem with it.
Just remember magpul spec means they made mil spec stocks for mil spec buffer tubes that dont fit very well so they could sell you magpul spec buffer tubes
You probably have a different limiter (like on mine my headphone is at 40% (I'm lowering the volume slightly on the video playback as well, so closer to 30%), but if I install my headphone's drivers it will be at like 5% audio because its drivers allow full power range while Windows has some garbage exponential thing going on that's also different than my Linux laptop with the same headphones where the audio curves are wildly different (also not using the correct software drivers, but honestly the correct drivers are ridiculously loud so I often cap it at a 1/5 scale anyways in its surround sound drivers).
There videos are at a lower volume than most other channels, I've been using about 30-50% in the TH-cam player (scaling against the 40% in the windows taskbar) depending on the channel and this one I had closer to 90% on the playback (with 40% on the taskbar). But you should be fine with a decent 10w system even, 400w should be making your ears bleed if you're really having to crank it, haha!
IMHO, It’s simply min requirement of the military, if sold as “meets or exceeds “ there should be an explanation of exceeds, the military is not gonna throw inferior requirements out there intentionally, That said improvement can be made on any product out there, it’s baseline to build from🇺🇸🇺🇸🇺🇸
I was always told that MIL-SPEC meant it was superior quality. The understanding that it met or exceeded a higher level of quality because it was designed and made for the military. A level of quality good enough for combat.
I'd rather have "mil-spec" than "no-spec". Many budget builders like to insult anything mil-spec to reassure themselves when buying parts of unknown quality.
I cant stand the saying mil-spec when used with civilian parts its so stupid. i could see people thinking it means low quality seeing the military buys from the lowest bidder.
Real military spec means you pay $300 per carbon steal bolt when I can get Titanium in the same size for $10 each. I'm a mechanical and aerospace engineer, it pained me specking parts because that wasn't an exaggeration. I laughed that some standard bolts were $300 each that I could run down the road to Tractor Supply for some grade 8 bolts and pay less than $0.25 for. Also made me laugh that my machined hollow Titanium shaft race motors with CNC parts and curved neodymium magnets costs 1/10th what the price of just a standard bolt cost with absolutely nothing special other than its country of origin was documented (even my toy used fancier machined screws for motor mounting just because it could). Thankfully Mil-spec in gun parts just means cheap and copycat design with no improvements, so its not a bad deal.
@@jakegarrett8109 you're conflating a standard with government bureaucracy. I call BS on the engineer claim. An engineer would understand and be intimately familiar with standards such as mil-spec, ANSI, ASME, ISO, ...
@@curt2742 Some ISO standards are a bit of a joke in the engineering industry (I believe its ISO 9000 that requires you to follow your own guidelines to be compliant, that's usually the one that's laughed at). For aircraft bolts its usually NAS spec though. We also just have a chart printed on our cubicles for referencing them though my absolute favorite fasteners to spec were BJ and A SS (space only for TH-cam guidelines). The coding BJ is internal company standard specification rivet if you're not familiar with them, but I'm sure you understand why I loved writing that on engineering drawings, haha!
@@johnbeauvais3159 Don't know what a Riddle guy is, in that specific job I was design engineer for heavy structures and modifications. It involved a lot of fasteners, a single assembly drawing would have a hundred to around a thousand or more fasteners you had to keep track of and unfortunately the aircraft engineering drawings being reworked didn't have any fasteners modeled (had to reference hand drawings) in there area (and they weren't consistent on location, each tail number often had a variation, assuming the builders actually followed the drawings which sometimes were not physically possible so you had to check when possible). Lovely stuff, haha! My new job is like 50x more fun and super exciting, so I'm off to do that now, cheers!
For some components, mil-spec is as good as it gets. Almost all the high end manufacturers will use forged 7075 receivers, rather than billet or cast, and 7075 buffer tubes. But it's not the be all end all. Nickel boron triggers and a CHF barrel are better a mil-spec trigger and 11595E barrel. Mil-spec should be seen as a minimum standard but watch out for stuff that are mil-spec in name only, like buffer tubes that are mil-spec in dimensions but made of the softer 6061 aluminum at a lower price.
Mil-Spec has been over used & misunderstood I don’t think there is a Military Inspector in every manufacturer that says their parts are Mil-Spec, also Eugene Stoner set the specifications for the upper & lowers for the.AR-15 .Before the Military ever adopted the AR15/M16 platform.My understanding was General LeMay acquired AR-15 rifles for the Expeditionary Forces in Vietnam before the M-16 was adopted my the Military
Mil-spec it's mean interchangeability ....If government wants to give contracts (war time for example ) to different companies, all pieces from all over the country must fit at the final assembly...Same materials, same dimensions...
“Mill spec” means minimum requirements at lowest possible cost... Which basically means they found the lowest bidder for something they need built at there specified specifications....
To be truthful, milspec means the exact specifications of what material is used and the exact tolerances that the part is machined to. That way all the parts are exactly the same no mater who makes them.
I tell my wife that I'm mil-spec. I'm not the best, or the cheapest, but I get the job done.
Her reply is that I am indeed reliable, but also easy to replace.
She gets me.
Love.
TheFire///// FUNNY!!!!!!
Dude,
That has got to be one of the BEST comments..
I can't quit laughing.
A very true and underrated comment indeed.
Good Stuff! lol
This is the greatest thing iv ever heard hahahah hijacked
just remember 239 Rules of Acquisition "Never be afraid to mislabel a product."
a lot of companies that aren't afraid to use Buzzwords like "gaming" "MIL-SPEC" "German Engineering"
I love when people say, "but this part/rifle/ect is mil spec!," but have no clue what the specs are, or where to find them. It has become a buzzword that gets abused often.
@ZenoSwarm Sucks! Yeah made to standards of the military which means it should be fairly reliable under normal conditions. Which is lots of carrying, storing, and occasional use.
@@joeb6750 Mil-Spec means "gun go bang when pull trigger"
"German Engineering" is always convincing
@@inquisitorkryptman7893 one better is the first words “German Engineering” or “Designed In California” right under that is “Made In China”
Never had a problem with milspec on any of my AR builds
You generally won't until your activities with it start exceeding military design specifications. Example the mil-spec military M-16's are designed for minimal cost, and to perform under nominal conditions. 2000 rounds in 6 hours at a range is not within those parameters. It's something a match shooter, trainer, or just somebody with money to burn does. So there are many $2,000+ rifles that far exceed mil-spec to function under extreme conditions such as that.
Example I have a couple of mil-spec AR's no issue with either but I don't bump fire them for 400+ rounds at the range for giggles, and I can't afford to shoot 2000 rounds on a Saturday for any reason. People forget 99% of combat is walking around being bored, with 15 - 30 minutes of pure chaos thrown in here or there. Most mil-spec rifles are fine for that but do it every week and you'll find the weak spots pretty fast.
Luckily you can take a basic AR-15 add a forged bolt, adjustable gas block, and a heavy profile barrel and now you have a rifle that will run happy for hours and hours. Everything else really is just farkles.
Proper mil spec buffer tubes and lower receivers always work for me. I buy some fancy uppers and triggers.
Cope
In my twenty years on active duty, I was heavily involved in the requirements for, the procurement of, and the associated budgeting and management for all sorts of “MilSpec” systems and materials (tactical aviation, not small arms). And I can guarantee that there is a real difference in the processes and the certification of MilSpec items, as contrasted to “commercial” items. Incidentally, Steve did a fine job of explaining this. This does NOT suggest that commercial items cannot be equal - or superior - to MilSpec, they certainly can be. BUT - and this is a damn big “but” - there is are no methods, processes and certifications to ensure that they will be. And that’s the crucial difference.
Except for ear plugs apparently.
@@lynnhunley7597
At least you had ear plugs 😉 . In my twenty years on active duty, never once did I receive or use hearing protection. Of course, the result is the VA has assessed my hearing loss - in all frequency ranges and in both ears - as profound.
WHAT!! Bugs?
Known failure is better then higher quality but unknown failure. Since it’s a mystery it can’t be trusted. My gamer guns use a variety of parts, some of suspicious provenance. But for life and liberty I’m going with known equipment every time, even of despite its inferior quality.
@@roykiefer7713 Why did you never use hearing protection?
I like that Caleb had to catch himself from naming a low quality receiver manufacturer by name, and changed it to knock off brands.
Like which ones? To avoid in the future.
I’m curious about this manufacturer myself.
Not me, tell it like it is. How are we supposed to know if everyone is afraid to say it?
Anderson
@@ryanpeck3377 Thanks, never have used them.
I was Marine Aviation Ordnance.We used Naval Air Tech Pubs.Mil-Spec was adhered to for almost everything.
@Jaime D Semper Fi. Ordies for life. 🇺🇸
Definitely don't go by the slant, when determining commercial or mil spec. I bought a stock for my flat tube thinking it was mil spec, and turns out it was commercial. My extra tube with the slanted back, was mil spec diameter...
This show should be called..”NOTHING BUT THE SCOOP AND ONLY THE TRUTH SO HELP ME BROWNELLS”
It shall be considered
I used to work at a place that did a lot of milspec work. Some of the inspections our stuff went through was unreal. They actually peeled paint off of shipping/storage boxes we made to measure the thickness. They would completely disassemble 3 boxes every month to inspect every aspect of the construction and materials.
Nice to see the homies back in action. Keeping it classy as always
It means the same thing as "to code" when building a house. it is just a set of specifications to operate safely/properly. It does not mean low quality.
Military specification, it was slapping me in the face. I should have known, I just never thought about it.
Mil-spec or Military Specification is a HIGHLY detailed set of specifications to assure the quality of a product is suitable for use by the United States Military forces. It isn't cheap and the specs aren't flexible.
I love the dramatic coffee sip.
As always, great video. These should be on in the background in gun shops and clubhouses
I love these videos and I've been watching them for years. You're expertise and knowledge has really been helpful for me as I've learned the ins-and-outs of the several AR builds I've done.
RIP Steve’s Astronaut Cat coffee cup!!!
Caleb, please... ...for the love of all that is good. Shave the sideburns. I can’t help but think you came straight from performing in a musical that’s set in the 1960’s. 🤣 Definitely appreciate the smythbuster series you all do!
@Jacob Harris all he needs now is a porno mustache.
Hey their making a comeback...thankyavurymuch...Eviliss
You guys are great. I love what you do!!!
Good Video. I only use High Quality, Mil Spec or Better from Major U.S. Companies for all of my builds.
When .you both lift the coffee cup at the end it cracked me up.. mil spec for sure. Dr. K
I worked in a machine shop. The milspec we worked on had a paper trail that included everything even the metallurgy. They have a certain quality standard that has to be met. It's a great standard as long as it doesn't get watered down. Can we build things better? Yes, but milspec means or should mean i can take any part I find and be confident it will work with another part designed to work together....
My go to company is BCM. They have excellent qc, and I feel its better than new Colts.
hopefully cz does some intervention in quality andnrifle design now that they own colt
@@zerofire3172 I know or at least make them go back to making things in house. Almost everthing is outsourced.
The best QC in the game. And I cannot help to build ar's around their bcg.
That's why we all should buy from a reputable company like Brownells. I wish one of these companies would come out and list all the companies and the Chinese receivers that are branded and are sold as superior units. That would surely help a lot of people unknowingly buying cheap knock offs.
I feel like because mil spec stuff is no frills, it sometimes gets connected to low quality which isn't fair but is understandable for people new to ar's.
From Wikipedia---. According to the Government Accountability Office (GAO), military specifications "describe the physical and/or operational characteristics of a product", while military standards "detail the processes and materials to be used to make the product." Military handbooks, on the other hand, are primarily sources of compiled information and/or guidance. The GAO acknowledges, however, that the terms are often used interchangeably
Mil Spec, is just a specification, like any other. It just means what the US gov/military decided they wanted their vendors to comply with.
By the cheapest priced compliant bidder... lol
I always feel like I’m going to get the “straight poop“ from Brownell’s. Thank you
From my experience, it seems as though a lot of companies throw around "mil-spec" very loosely. The item may or may not actually measure up to the complete mil-spec, maybe just the key dimensions of a mil-spec part. It totally floors me to see a billet receiver advertised as "mil-spec."
whats wrong with billet?
@@ikeepgettinbanned5525 nothing wrong with billet, just that they are not mil spec. Mil spec specifically stated that a receiver is made from a forging.
Man that is some good looking hair seriously:) you should do a video on styling it I’m curious. Good day mate
Yep and “Civ Spec”=Airsoft
That hair is a result of a strict regimen of using RBC for cleaning and LSA for conditioning. 😛
@@garygrant91 I thought he used PL Special?
In basic training, I saw a drill sgt. seize an m-16 from a knucklehead and THROW it across the company training area. It hit the ground with a sickening *cack! and skuttled into a curb. The drill sgt. made the private low-crawl after it. Not only did that rifle still work, that soldier scored like, 34 or 35 out of 40 on the range the next day. That's damn near "expert" qualification. That's mill spec stuff.
I've seen the definition of "mil-spec" change quite a bit depending on the manufacturer. Companies (especially cheap ones) take liberties with the term, because they know putting it on their products will sell them.
Seen a lot of them mislead by saying
Mil Spec Quality.
@@shawnr771 When they do that, they mean "yeah, our suppliers were the lowest bidders." And usually, you get what you paid for.
@@jd9119 Yep.
Misleading advertising.
Good info.
Or built to the TDP technical data package. As in Colt, but not current Colt.
MIL-SPEC means producing product that meets the MS requirement
Just the lowest acceptable for military service. So it sets the bar.
Military (mil) spec (specification(s)
Mil spec means it is on budget and within specifications.
Every part supplied by the lowest COMPLIANT bidder. Geoff Who took Government Contracting many moons agone.
It's important to understand ALL of the specification, though. For example, the military specification for an M-4 trigger is 5.5 to 8.5 pounds. There are many very fine commercially available triggers with a pull weight of less than 5.5 pounds. There's absolutely nothing wrong with them and in fact may be the better product for a particular application (competition, for example) than the mil-spec "equivalent", but they don't meet the military specification.
Every time I hear somebody brag about mil-spec parts, I remember that at one point in my life, I wore mil-spec boxers and socks. Everything has a mil-spec equivalent.
Exactly. Mil-spec means it meets military specifications, no more, no less. Everything in the military is "mil=spec," from socks to F-35. It may be cheap or expensive, but it is not a qualification for quality.
@@barrygrant2907 WRONG! Mil-Spec products, produced for the military, go through 5 to 10 (pending what the product is) more inspections steps than most commercial grade products of the same item. They also have extensive testing of incoming materials received at the factory; and in many cases a full time government inspector resident in that factory (I was one). This not only assures higher quality, but also consistency of quality, and consistency of fit and function. Believe me, if this were not the case, there would be "whistleblowers" coming out of the cracks in the pavement - because everyone wants to "catch" the government.
Thank you Guys!!! Love your videos I learn a lot from them over the years Please Keep them Going!!! NRA!!!
Dunno, my "mil-spec" stuff all has Colt cage codes but I ain't worrying.
My "cheapo" Ruger AR556 had run like a top for awhile so it's a hard call what's what in the AR market IMO.
@James Borek the AR556 I have seems to have a fairly accurate barrel, but I kinda doubt their push/pivot pins and holes are "mil-spec" (at least, they weren't MACHINED to "mil-spec" if they are supposed to be) .
It's a very broad term and interpretation of it depends on the context , for instance in electronic components mil spec is the highest grade .
What about a vid on the rattle you get in some ar 15 uppers and lowers when paired together
You mean issues due to “tolerance stacking”?
@@ETC_Rohaly_USCG yep , some people lose there absolute minds if there’s rattle in there ar and go to extreme lengths to stop it from doing that
Its generally not a problem. I think the acceptable gap is around .020".
@@ross8270 Depends what you need it for, for home defense I want it absolutely silent, a rattle may get you killed if you're sneaking in the dark to check why the window just broke. I don't have an AR-15 nor am I an expert on them (I've shot maybe 6-7 shots with one in all my life, so take it as a grain of salt), but I think you can get a wedge for them that fills the gap, or it looks like you could add a shim (cardboard might even work for a little while if you needed for hunting and didn't want to spook your prey). It seems like it would be an easy problem to solve though, but people like my dad wouldn't care (the engine sounds like its trying to fall out of the car, the wheel bearings sound like rocks hitting things, and so many noises and vibrations in his car that he can't hear that its absolutely terrifying, but that's also coming from me and I tack welded half my motorcycles nuts and bolts because I didn't like tightening them all the time and they'd vibrate and fall out, lol!).
I had an XM-16E1 (seriously) when I went through Army basic Training in 1985. The thing rattled a fair bit. I still shot a 34, 2 under Expert with the POS.
That's what I thought, but sometimes you hear people saying that milspec is no good and is just a marketing term.
Mil-spec just means your parts should work with other mil-spec parts. It does NOT mean it's lower or higher quality. It just means it's within the officially defined acceptable dimensions for these parts. It exists to avoid having to hand-fit parts together.
Its more than just fitment and parts interchangeability. There are specs for acceptable materials, heat treatment processes, acceptable part life/wear, and even how the part is manufactured. Everything from the sourced raw materials, to the dimensions and tolerances, and way its manufactured is spec'd, recorded, and controlled.
Mil-spec or military grade, only impresses those who haven’t been in the military
I have known from my years in the military, where mil-spec is basically (yes, there are some exceptions) is almost all that we had, and I can say that it is basically the direct opposite of low quality.
Yes, the military needs to keep cost in mind with procurement, but those mil-spec standards make it far easier to ensure that we have equipment that will stand up to the rigors of combat and greatly lessen the chance of failure in situations where it is quite literally a matter of life and death.
Beware of "billet" versus forged got stung on that one bought a billet upper which I had thought would be better turns out it was turned out of 6061 instead of 7075 it was cheap and it's true colors shown through the fit on the lower was sloppy very .I spent a little more on a forged upper and the fit and finish is much better.
to me it also means that when Im looking threw a selection of parts and am worried about fitment and function, when I see Mil-spc I know that this one will work and fit. so when in any doubt I will Always go for one that says it is quality of build and materials are Mil-spc.
Can you use a milspec buffer assembly on any length ar.. besides pistol?
If I have a commercial buffer tube can I install a mil spec buffer tube on my ar?
When I see mil-spec, I think mil-spec standard and verified by inspection through the manufacturing process. Far be it from low standard, I see mil-spec as top guality.
And that’s the problem. Mil-spec does NOT mean top quality, but so many people think that it means precisely that.
I've had mil spec buffer tubes with different outer diameters, does that mean that the smaller diameter tube isn't actually mil spec?
It can also mean: magazines coated for failure to safe a nickel, tolerances loose enough for improved reliability, overgassed for the same reason. I rather go for details or look up the standard that something is said to fulfill. Case by Case.
My military has criteria to be preferred, one of the criteria is affordability. I attempt to step over that line to find products above the quality of “milspec” stuff.
What about the "mil-spec" magazines for the Beretta M-9 that failed in the desert? Geoff Who is curious.
That's why "mil spec" isn't a good thing to base your purchasing decisions on.
M4 GI mags suck too in my experience
Just had to meet the dimensions, didn't say anything about it working or reliability... From what I've heard that's not uncommon for military magazine styles, and I understand why (to get something certified even if its 10 or 100x more reliable costs an insane amount, and then you still have to get your customer to buy it which for commercial market not a big deal they will flock to the improved product but military needs to do trail testing and procurement and then you still have to win a massive contract, so most likely you'll be stuck with failing garbage until they change systems).
For example, what I do on the weekend for fun requires a month of waiting for a board to review, (that's not counting my boss and team, that's actually really easy and at worst is a week for the weekly meetings), but then this has to get drafted and approved by the slow committee, then it has to be redrafted for exact test procedure for FAA submissal, and then assuming the weather hasn't changed (and it always does), go do the 30 minute test.... I could see if this was handling a nuke, but its a very low risk test and you might as well just test on the test stand because you don't have months for the entire project let alone one validation test. Its really that slow. And we're talking about things not much more dangerous than a DJI phantom, like its astounding we have anything improving for our military..
The original Beretta mags worked fine in Iraq. Beretta supplied Egypt and other Middle East military so they have a lot of experience with fine dust. However, U.S. Ordnance second sourced mags from Checkmate Industries with a different finish. The finish on those mags trapped desert sand between the inside walls and the brass casings. That led to failures to feed.
@@jakegarrett8109 mil specifications are more than dimensions. It’s whatever is wrote into the specification from hardness, surface roughness, surface coating, yield strength, fatigue strength, ingress protection (dirt and moisture), life cycle, endurance limit, and yes reliability, etc, etc. The specification can include any measurably property and performance value.
Just because a part is mil-spec doesn’t mean it won’t fail in service. The spec could be lacking, the part could have poor QC, the part could have been used incorrectly or beyond the design intent.
@@pauldeahl3980 Yep, I've had a little experience with military specifications (material and heat treatment/paint code/and then the technical specifications and tolerances). My point was more that the spec doesn't include if it functions (hopefully it does, but if I designed it wrong or didn't account for tolerances then its only going to be as good as my dumb design, haha!)
I don't think I've ever written a fatigue or yield strength spec, but that should be something that can be back calculated from the dimensions plus material. Screws and fasteners are probably where that is seen the most and commonly listed.
In my experience mil spec generally refers to standard tolerances on measurements, however military grade means indeed cheapass quality.
I have a tone of military grear that will out live me.
Military grade literally means built tough enough to withstand the harshest environments and combat conditions. You can be the lowest bidder on a specific contract but the gear still must meet the military requirements. Generally the contracts are so large that gear can be made for a lesser price per unit because of large volume of order.
Long after the military service life of an item is reached…. It’s then sold military surplus and used by civilians for decades afterwards.
Military grade literally means built tough enough to withstand the harshest environments and combat conditions. You can be the lowest bidder on a specific contract but the gear still must meet the military requirements. Generally the contracts are so large that gear can be made for a lesser price per unit because of large volume of order.
Long after the military service life of an item is reached…. It’s then sold military surplus and used by civilians for decades afterwards
Known/tested parts at a known performance level. Mil Spec is the reason the AR is as modular as it is. Manufactures stick to certain dimensions and tolerances. Unlike the AR10 platform.
Modern day 'mil-spec' is over hyped.
I only buy milspec lowers and buffer tubes. I know it won't wear out or fail.
Milatry does not pick the lowest bidder. They assess a wide range of needs and make there decisions by which one hits the most across the board.
With a large need being cheap. The military buys the cheapest thing that gets the job done good enough
Scars aren't cheap (3000$)
😂 who ever told you that was a 🤡 - military always goes for cheapest bidder or a company that's willing to drop their price so they can get a govt contract.. you sound like a 🤡
The new Sig literally wasn't fully put through the trials, had more malfunctions half of which most people don't know about besides the drop safe issue, and simply was the lowest bidder. Military contracts boil down to who is blowing who under the table. Now if it's not just a sidearm but a mainstream item like a rifle they have to be more careful but in the end they'll blame the manufacturer like they did in Vietnam.
I don't know . I have family that's served in the 70s / 2004 and they all say mill spec to them mean best price for ok quality . Witch means you're getting crap .
THANKS
"The lowest bidder" who can meet the specified requirements of the military contract.
Unless it's certified as meeting mil-spec, you can call something anything you want, as in "doctor recommended" or "rated #1" the best advice is to buy from trusted, well reviewed makes.
Is there any sort of legal requirement for a company to actually abide by the "military specs" when calling something mil-spec? Often wondered if companies use it as a general term for "basic part".
Ok I have a question ? So I got a bear creek arsenal upper I replaced the bolt carrier group with a Wilson Combat bcg and a giessele charging handle. Then threw it on a palmetto lower. How good do you think it is so far how can I make it better?
Depends what you want, they sell almost everything from what I've checked (side chargers, lefty's, opposite hand lefties, and almost every caliber God has ever blessed seems to be available). They sell heavy to regular barrels and with fluting in between, so its not "what is better" so much as "what do you want out of it?" and "what's better for you?" (like should you get the heavy barrels for precision or possibly high speed firing, or if you're carrying it every day probably go with a pencil barrel (thin and light), or if you just want bling I think there are carbon fiber wrapped composite barrels or for corrosive environments stainless steel with potentially coatings on top of that (and that's just a few of the popular barrel options, ignoring caliber selection). That's the beauty of your own build, its like car modifications, do what you want because everyone is different.
My top picks would be: Ultra light build (hybrid composite upper with a WWSD monocoque composite lower, carbon fiber buffer tube, carbon fiber minimalistic handguard, custom carbon fiber magazines (I would do those myself, I can do carbon layups), and a red dot.
or I would go heavy: non-fluted extra heavy custom barrel (possibly water cooling jacket), steel handguard and billet steel lower (or Titanium if it was a dream build), fixed A2 stock, heavy bipod and thermal optics 45 degree mounted with 24x main optic (something like that would be awesome for stationary plinking or hog hunting, suppressed of course to lessen hearing damage).
then a couple absolutely wild dream builds that would never be practical or functional, just hilarious and fun (kind of like a Tommy gun, the best at nothing but everyone would want to hold it and say hello to my little friend!)
So you do you. Change what you hate, or keep it, I don't think many burglars are going to scoff for long at the end of a barrel.
Milspec = good enough
Poor quality = Smith and Wesson, Taurus, Remington, etc.
Good one!
As a Veteran, civilian sector has the best AR platforms and parts kits. Milspec is essentially the lowest bidder.
Lowest quality compared to what? Civilian contracts also have specifications and are often given to low bidders.
I would have trouble purchasing a true mil-spec, select fire M16 lower.
Most likely should be called "Military STANDARD-SIZED in the size of the hammer and trigger pins on AR type lowers..and the buffer tubes
5 years ago no one would buy anything unless it was “milspec”
mil spec means you can mortar the gun against the ground without worrying about it breaking or you can throw the gun over a wall before you jump over it
Caleb has the fingers of a wood sprite.
is there a way to tell if a buffer tube is 6061 or 7075 aluminum?
Not really. You might could weigh it, but I'm not sure which would be heavier or if there is any difference at all.
are 6061 buffer tubes any good
@@patrickhenderson488 For most people they're perfectly adequate. I used a 6061 commercial buffer tube for over 10 years up until recently. Never had a problem with it.
bite it
I like standards gives me a base line to work from. I only use milspec I have no need for a fancy gun just a reliable one.
Mil-spec can both mean "craptastic" and "fantastic"
Just remember magpul spec means they made mil spec stocks for mil spec buffer tubes that dont fit very well so they could sell you magpul spec buffer tubes
You mean because of the minimal wobble in a mil spec moe stock?
Def need to raise up the volume up on your videos more, i have to go max just to hear you talk, using a 2.1 thx 400watt system so its not me.
You probably have a different limiter (like on mine my headphone is at 40% (I'm lowering the volume slightly on the video playback as well, so closer to 30%), but if I install my headphone's drivers it will be at like 5% audio because its drivers allow full power range while Windows has some garbage exponential thing going on that's also different than my Linux laptop with the same headphones where the audio curves are wildly different (also not using the correct software drivers, but honestly the correct drivers are ridiculously loud so I often cap it at a 1/5 scale anyways in its surround sound drivers).
There videos are at a lower volume than most other channels, I've been using about 30-50% in the TH-cam player (scaling against the 40% in the windows taskbar) depending on the channel and this one I had closer to 90% on the playback (with 40% on the taskbar). But you should be fine with a decent 10w system even, 400w should be making your ears bleed if you're really having to crank it, haha!
My dad doesn’t care about guns but this topic even I nterested him.
IMHO, It’s simply min requirement of the military, if sold as “meets or exceeds “ there should be an explanation of exceeds, the military is not gonna throw inferior requirements out there intentionally,
That said improvement can be made on any product out there, it’s baseline to build from🇺🇸🇺🇸🇺🇸
I was always told that MIL-SPEC meant it was superior quality. The understanding that it met or exceeded a higher level of quality because it was designed and made for the military. A level of quality good enough for combat.
Why are we even talking about commercial tubes at this point....they hardly exist anymore.
I try to stay mil-spec on most of my stuff.
For me it's not so much a quality thing as
much as it is a consistency thing.
Right
This.
It does when you’re talking charging handles
Do a shot every time Caleb says "receiver extension".
I'd rather have "mil-spec" than "no-spec".
Many budget builders like to insult anything mil-spec to reassure themselves when buying parts of unknown quality.
I cant stand the saying mil-spec when used with civilian parts its so stupid. i could see people thinking it means low quality seeing the military buys from the lowest bidder.
Mil-spec really means best quality for the most affordable price.
Real military spec means you pay $300 per carbon steal bolt when I can get Titanium in the same size for $10 each. I'm a mechanical and aerospace engineer, it pained me specking parts because that wasn't an exaggeration. I laughed that some standard bolts were $300 each that I could run down the road to Tractor Supply for some grade 8 bolts and pay less than $0.25 for. Also made me laugh that my machined hollow Titanium shaft race motors with CNC parts and curved neodymium magnets costs 1/10th what the price of just a standard bolt cost with absolutely nothing special other than its country of origin was documented (even my toy used fancier machined screws for motor mounting just because it could).
Thankfully Mil-spec in gun parts just means cheap and copycat design with no improvements, so its not a bad deal.
@@jakegarrett8109 you're conflating a standard with government bureaucracy.
I call BS on the engineer claim. An engineer would understand and be intimately familiar with standards such as mil-spec, ANSI, ASME, ISO, ...
@@curt2742 Some ISO standards are a bit of a joke in the engineering industry (I believe its ISO 9000 that requires you to follow your own guidelines to be compliant, that's usually the one that's laughed at). For aircraft bolts its usually NAS spec though. We also just have a chart printed on our cubicles for referencing them though my absolute favorite fasteners to spec were BJ and A SS (space only for TH-cam guidelines). The coding BJ is internal company standard specification rivet if you're not familiar with them, but I'm sure you understand why I loved writing that on engineering drawings, haha!
@@jakegarrett8109 Were you a Riddle guy?
@@johnbeauvais3159 Don't know what a Riddle guy is, in that specific job I was design engineer for heavy structures and modifications. It involved a lot of fasteners, a single assembly drawing would have a hundred to around a thousand or more fasteners you had to keep track of and unfortunately the aircraft engineering drawings being reworked didn't have any fasteners modeled (had to reference hand drawings) in there area (and they weren't consistent on location, each tail number often had a variation, assuming the builders actually followed the drawings which sometimes were not physically possible so you had to check when possible). Lovely stuff, haha! My new job is like 50x more fun and super exciting, so I'm off to do that now, cheers!
For some components, mil-spec is as good as it gets. Almost all the high end manufacturers will use forged 7075 receivers, rather than billet or cast, and 7075 buffer tubes. But it's not the be all end all. Nickel boron triggers and a CHF barrel are better a mil-spec trigger and 11595E barrel. Mil-spec should be seen as a minimum standard but watch out for stuff that are mil-spec in name only, like buffer tubes that are mil-spec in dimensions but made of the softer 6061 aluminum at a lower price.
Mil-Spec has been over used & misunderstood I don’t think there is a Military Inspector in every manufacturer that says their parts are Mil-Spec, also Eugene Stoner set the specifications for the upper & lowers for the.AR-15 .Before the Military ever adopted the AR15/M16 platform.My understanding was General LeMay acquired AR-15 rifles for the Expeditionary Forces in Vietnam before the M-16 was adopted my the Military
Its a data package, thats it. It calls for sizes, finishes, etc. M4 is a data package.
That hair is Mil-Spec...
Mil-spec it's mean interchangeability ....If government wants to give contracts (war time for example ) to different companies, all pieces from all over the country must fit at the final assembly...Same materials, same dimensions...
IS THAT A STOCK ON THE TABLE?!?!
***ATF has entered the chat***
The *ATF* would consider that stock as a "full auto machine gun." They're a group made up of morons.
“Mill spec” means minimum requirements at lowest possible cost... Which basically means they found the lowest bidder for something they need built at there specified specifications....
To be truthful, milspec means the exact specifications of what material is used and the exact tolerances that the part is machined to. That way all the parts are exactly the same no mater who makes them.
People who hate on mil-spec seem to be disgruntled vets who's only triger time was twice a year on shagged out, 15-20 year old M-4S.