A lot of what is said here actually has nothing to do with a Souls game. The title seems to refer to the definition of a Souls game, but the actual content is about the completeness of the game rather than the definition of a Souls game. For example, regarding details, there are games in each genre that boast incredible details. So should we say that these games are faithful to Soullike because these games have great details? It's very funny to say that difficulty is non factor in a Souls game. Among the reasons why soul games are called soul games, one that cannot be overlooked is the feeling that comes from overcoming difficulties. perhaps it's the most important factor. If a challenge isn't an important factor of a Souls game, then what on earth defines a Souls game? No one will deny that From's completeness is outstanding. But that's about how well it's made and has nothing to do with the definition of the genre. Because most of the things have nothing to do with the title, I can only be heard From fanboy's worship. I think you just making the definition of Soulslike or Souls rather very confusing.
As an addendum to that lore section, the game also has to make you connect the dots not just from the item descriptions, but also from literally everything else in the game: from mechanics, NPC and bosses you meet, and environmental story telling. There is this game called Absolver, which isn't really a Souls-like but it sure as hell is inspired by it. In Absolver you have item descriptions containing plenty of expositions about potentially interesting lore, it gives you names of people, places, culture, etc; the problem is, you don't care about any of it because you _barely_ see any of that relates to what you find throughout the game. There is nothing to hook you in, to make you imagine and speculate, rather than putting in pieces of puzzles you're invested in it feels instead like working on MS Excel just parsing straightforward data with almost zero context. Also I do think the games being hard is part of what make Souls good, ER made plenty of areas easily overlevelable(?) and I really didn't enjoy the game whenever that happens. People say the difficulty didn't matter, and most likely to a few it doesn't; but since it mattered to Miyazaki (clearly it worked for many, like me), out of respect for his artistic vision I do think it matters. Is an easy Souls-like really a Souls-like?
A soulslike is a modern mettroidvania (usually 3d, but with a few exceptions here n there) with a stamina bar, and predominately set with gameplay elements, themes, and tones that promote the idea of both isolation and doom. With these criteria in mind, I'd be keen and curious to know what some may consider an overlooked soulslike game, from previous consoles.c
Hey this is a really very well made video. But did you just put ds2 in the souls clone category you mad lad. You have my respect and my subcribe button you underrated king. Oh i'ld also like to share my souls like take, I understand your "difficult=/=souls" idea but i will object this by saying souls like games NEED to be difficult BUT difficulty does not create a souls like. For me the best part of a souls game is the infamous "git gud". You have a challenge and tools to conquer said challenge. Overcoming the difficulty is the core of every good souls game. But this require fair and tight mechanics. The animations need to be clear and sharp and character movement should be as responsive as it gets. Personally i knew ds2 was worse than ds1 or ds3 was better than ds2 in my first sword swing. And i think that was mostly because i could tell the exact moment my character hit in ds1 and ds3 but not in ds2. Everything felt... sloppy. Almost every souls like i have played shared that sloppiness. The only exception for me was lies of p. Everything you've said is also true but this is my core issue with those games including ds2 as it was better then most souls like but not quite there.
When I say "difficult for the sake of being difficult," I meant difficulty without regard to fairness. That could have been phrased better. I also agree with your take of "not quite there." That is one of the most frustrating parts of all these clones; if they focused more on what they had to work with and not the games they're trying to emulate, they could've been great. I also said the ds2 thing cause I knew it would make ds2 fans flip :D
My friend called remnant 2 a soullike, sure it uses some soul like elements but i do not agree that it fully is a souls game. It does enough different things to the point where i wouldn't call it a soulslike.
It's also a roguelike, right? I have a hard time understanding how it could be considered a soulslike if it has procedurally generated environments and enemies.
BGMs as in background music? I do have background music it's just very faint. I'll turn it up a bit in the next one. Otherwise, I don't know what BGMs are.
I have only played the demo. I think it certainly has potential to be a true Soulslike. I didn't care much for the gameplay of the demo, but I hear the full game plays better.
Although I disagree with your final thought, I did still enjoy the video and your takes have provided a lot of insight. Thank you. I feel personally the thing that makes me not like a souls clo-- Soulslikes is the combat. FromSoft's games' have this unique physics-based combat style with action warm-ups and i-frames that are all precisely managed to make each game's combat feel more like a dance than a button prompt, meanwhile games like Nioh or Code Vein are much more hack 'n slash in comparison with a focus on flashy moves and/or combos... Or they're more like Dark Souls 2 than any of the others. I couldn't care less how a game presents itself story-wise or world-design wise, it all boils down to how the gameplay feels for me, despite usually being a story-focused gamer who reads every item description.
I have to push back against this because what you described is actually aspects of Monster Hunter combat that Fromsoft tried to replicate in their own game. In fact, what drew me to souls in the first place was trying to find another game that had this dance to it that makes Monster Hunter feel so good. I think a definition that can describe something completely different from a souls game isn't very helpful.
@elk3407 Just because a different game did the grand thing first doesn't discount said grand thing. From Journey to Dark Souls there's tons of examples of the multiplayer functionality present in Death Stranding, and yet Death Stranding is what made it a genre, "Strand game" Rogue wasn't the first game to feature permadeath. The list goes on.
@@DrewSunn Monster Hunter does that to a far greater degree than Souls, and it's also more of a focus then it is in souls. That's why it's a terrible definition, it doesn't capture the things Souls does that makes it completely different.
@elk3407 I don't agree, depends on the weapon you use, but that's still not how genres get defined. It's not "What does the thing better" it's "What are these games copying from" and there are loads of more games that copy Souls than Monster Hunter, even if the mechanics they're copying aren't entirely original. 🤷♂️ But even then that's not what I was saying. I wasn't necessarily arguing that the combat should define soulslike individually, I was saying that the combat is the thing that makes me enjoy the game or not... Hence why I'm also a big Monster Hunter fan.
I disagree on The Surge. IMO it's a great soulslike. I don't think it has great bosses, but souls games were never about the bosses in the first place, so I don't consider it a requirement to be called a soulslike. FROMSOFTWARE only started to place emphasis on bosses in Blooodborne, the first souls games focused much more on exploration, and I think The Surge does that part really well. Would it be a better game if the bosses were better too? Sure, but I don't think it's fair to say it fails at being a soulslike.
I think that a Salt and Sanctuary is close enough to be in souls like games too. I played very little of it and Dark Souls, but there also is a story told through items and weapons descriptions and somewhat similiar gameplay mechanics. Check it out too.
13:34 Don't know why you felt the need to add the addendum when you were already right the first time Those who think people only like the Soulsborne games because they're difficult have a vague understanding of why people like the things they do and shouldn't be tasked with developing any piece of media whatsoever "If you think Dark Souls is good because it's hard you shouldn't be designing video games" full stop (Great video btw 👍)
I mainly added that because there are Fodian games where the difficulty is the point; and though they drive me mad, I do believe they have value in the gaming industry
A lot of what is said here actually has nothing to do with a Souls game. The title seems to refer to the definition of a Souls game, but the actual content is about the completeness of the game rather than the definition of a Souls game. For example, regarding details, there are games in each genre that boast incredible details. So should we say that these games are faithful to Soullike because these games have great details? It's very funny to say that difficulty is non factor in a Souls game. Among the reasons why soul games are called soul games, one that cannot be overlooked is the feeling that comes from overcoming difficulties. perhaps it's the most important factor. If a challenge isn't an important factor of a Souls game, then what on earth defines a Souls game?
No one will deny that From's completeness is outstanding. But that's about how well it's made and has nothing to do with the definition of the genre.
Because most of the things have nothing to do with the title, I can only be heard From fanboy's worship. I think you just making the definition of Soulslike or Souls rather very confusing.
As an addendum to that lore section, the game also has to make you connect the dots not just from the item descriptions, but also from literally everything else in the game: from mechanics, NPC and bosses you meet, and environmental story telling.
There is this game called Absolver, which isn't really a Souls-like but it sure as hell is inspired by it. In Absolver you have item descriptions containing plenty of expositions about potentially interesting lore, it gives you names of people, places, culture, etc; the problem is, you don't care about any of it because you _barely_ see any of that relates to what you find throughout the game. There is nothing to hook you in, to make you imagine and speculate, rather than putting in pieces of puzzles you're invested in it feels instead like working on MS Excel just parsing straightforward data with almost zero context.
Also I do think the games being hard is part of what make Souls good, ER made plenty of areas easily overlevelable(?) and I really didn't enjoy the game whenever that happens. People say the difficulty didn't matter, and most likely to a few it doesn't; but since it mattered to Miyazaki (clearly it worked for many, like me), out of respect for his artistic vision I do think it matters. Is an easy Souls-like really a Souls-like?
A soulslike is a modern mettroidvania (usually 3d, but with a few exceptions here n there) with a stamina bar, and predominately set with gameplay elements, themes, and tones that promote the idea of both isolation and doom.
With these criteria in mind, I'd be keen and curious to know what some may consider an overlooked soulslike game, from previous consoles.c
Hey this is a really very well made video. But did you just put ds2 in the souls clone category you mad lad. You have my respect and my subcribe button you underrated king.
Oh i'ld also like to share my souls like take,
I understand your "difficult=/=souls" idea but i will object this by saying souls like games NEED to be difficult BUT difficulty does not create a souls like.
For me the best part of a souls game is the infamous "git gud". You have a challenge and tools to conquer said challenge. Overcoming the difficulty is the core of every good souls game. But this require fair and tight mechanics.
The animations need to be clear and sharp and character movement should be as responsive as it gets. Personally i knew ds2 was worse than ds1 or ds3 was better than ds2 in my first sword swing. And i think that was mostly because i could tell the exact moment my character hit in ds1 and ds3 but not in ds2. Everything felt... sloppy.
Almost every souls like i have played shared that sloppiness. The only exception for me was lies of p. Everything you've said is also true but this is my core issue with those games including ds2 as it was better then most souls like but not quite there.
Agreed. Even Miyazaki himself insist that the difficulty is part of the "soul" of his games, it's honestly more dismissive to claim otherwise.
When I say "difficult for the sake of being difficult," I meant difficulty without regard to fairness. That could have been phrased better.
I also agree with your take of "not quite there." That is one of the most frustrating parts of all these clones; if they focused more on what they had to work with and not the games they're trying to emulate, they could've been great.
I also said the ds2 thing cause I knew it would make ds2 fans flip :D
I really wish too mack a nice souls-like in the future so hearing other people thought really helps and you have done a great video thank you ❤
My friend called remnant 2 a soullike, sure it uses some soul like elements but i do not agree that it fully is a souls game. It does enough different things to the point where i wouldn't call it a soulslike.
It's also a roguelike, right? I have a hard time understanding how it could be considered a soulslike if it has procedurally generated environments and enemies.
hey your videos and voice overs are good - subbed
just a thought - you may wanna check some BGMs. Will enhance the sound quality even more
BGMs as in background music? I do have background music it's just very faint. I'll turn it up a bit in the next one. Otherwise, I don't know what BGMs are.
This is such a good video for those who are new to these games, why is this not popular :
What're your thoughts on Lies of P? Heard a lot of good things about it but could well be more a clone than a Soulslike.
I have only played the demo. I think it certainly has potential to be a true Soulslike. I didn't care much for the gameplay of the demo, but I hear the full game plays better.
Although I disagree with your final thought, I did still enjoy the video and your takes have provided a lot of insight. Thank you.
I feel personally the thing that makes me not like a souls clo-- Soulslikes is the combat. FromSoft's games' have this unique physics-based combat style with action warm-ups and i-frames that are all precisely managed to make each game's combat feel more like a dance than a button prompt, meanwhile games like Nioh or Code Vein are much more hack 'n slash in comparison with a focus on flashy moves and/or combos... Or they're more like Dark Souls 2 than any of the others. I couldn't care less how a game presents itself story-wise or world-design wise, it all boils down to how the gameplay feels for me, despite usually being a story-focused gamer who reads every item description.
I have to push back against this because what you described is actually aspects of Monster Hunter combat that Fromsoft tried to replicate in their own game. In fact, what drew me to souls in the first place was trying to find another game that had this dance to it that makes Monster Hunter feel so good. I think a definition that can describe something completely different from a souls game isn't very helpful.
@elk3407 Just because a different game did the grand thing first doesn't discount said grand thing. From Journey to Dark Souls there's tons of examples of the multiplayer functionality present in Death Stranding, and yet Death Stranding is what made it a genre, "Strand game" Rogue wasn't the first game to feature permadeath. The list goes on.
@@DrewSunn Monster Hunter does that to a far greater degree than Souls, and it's also more of a focus then it is in souls. That's why it's a terrible definition, it doesn't capture the things Souls does that makes it completely different.
@elk3407 I don't agree, depends on the weapon you use, but that's still not how genres get defined. It's not "What does the thing better" it's "What are these games copying from" and there are loads of more games that copy Souls than Monster Hunter, even if the mechanics they're copying aren't entirely original. 🤷♂️ But even then that's not what I was saying. I wasn't necessarily arguing that the combat should define soulslike individually, I was saying that the combat is the thing that makes me enjoy the game or not... Hence why I'm also a big Monster Hunter fan.
Lore being part of the gameplay is what makes souls.
I disagree on The Surge. IMO it's a great soulslike. I don't think it has great bosses, but souls games were never about the bosses in the first place, so I don't consider it a requirement to be called a soulslike. FROMSOFTWARE only started to place emphasis on bosses in Blooodborne, the first souls games focused much more on exploration, and I think The Surge does that part really well. Would it be a better game if the bosses were better too? Sure, but I don't think it's fair to say it fails at being a soulslike.
I think that a Salt and Sanctuary is close enough to be in souls like games too. I played very little of it and Dark Souls, but there also is a story told through items and weapons descriptions and somewhat similiar gameplay mechanics. Check it out too.
That is one I've had on my radar for a long time and I just always forget about it
Lies of P is truly the first "soulslike" I have played that achieves (in my mind) the right to call itself a souls like
i feel like deaths gambit might also have it
@@adn02170 I haven’t tried it yet but I have been planning to
13:34 Don't know why you felt the need to add the addendum when you were already right the first time
Those who think people only like the Soulsborne games because they're difficult have a vague understanding of why people like the things they do and shouldn't be tasked with developing any piece of media whatsoever
"If you think Dark Souls is good because it's hard you shouldn't be designing video games" full stop
(Great video btw 👍)
I mainly added that because there are Fodian games where the difficulty is the point; and though they drive me mad, I do believe they have value in the gaming industry
Should have been called 'soulish'
Amazing script
first. 3rd veiw.
I dont watch jojo, stop posting jojo meme. Souls like, same f thing, who cares.