Why McLaren Could Regret Giving Up On The Drivers Championship
ฝัง
- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 6 ก.ย. 2024
- Oscar Piastri finally got his maiden win in F1, but not without some awkward team orders from his teammate Lando Norris. Thing is, was it a short sighted decision by McLaren? Lando is 2nd in the Drivers Championship at the end of the day...
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With 11 races to go, how close does Lando need to be to Max for you to consider him to be in a "title fight?"
40? 50? 60? etc...
76
20-30 or even 40 points because then every point is critical
I don’t believe they were allowed to fight in the last stint. They would have told him that if it was the case. Or the would have told Oscar “we told lando to swap, he ignored, you are clear to fight.” Just because they were clear to fight in the start doesn’t mean they were clear to fight at the end.
@@TommoOnTH-cam 40 points behind at most.
If Max keeps up with the same troubles, a dnf or p5/6… It could be close. Either way they should’ve just kept Lando in P1. The end of that last race was straight up stupid
M. Schumacher: You can be remembered as that nice guy who was a good teammate or you can be remembered as a world champion. He said this to young Vettel.
And then Seb went on to rectify that by becoming the most respected genuine nice fella on the grid towards the end of his career so 🤷♂️ it worked out for him in the end.
@@venomau5speedz yeah, and his teammate himself one of the GOAT in whole F1...
Bottas was Mr Nice Guy while Hamilton won the championships, all Hamiltons team mates have had to keep letting him pass.
@@Optikification nico rosberg. fernando alonso.
Never forget Kimi was 17 points a drift with just 2 races left of the season (in the old point system at just 10 points for a win) and still walked away with the title in ‘07.
That’s the equivalent of Lando being 42.5 points behind Max once we show up in Qatar and still becoming champion.
also kimi never needed to be aggressive and unforgiving to win a championship unlike schumacher hamilton vettel senna etc
@@jacob4tee Kimi was always a clean driver... there's no need to be an arse, I don't get why people always say "oh he's a champion of course he's dirty, all champions are like that" Button was also a fair racer
@@jacob4teehes agreeing with you lol
Kimi won it by ONE point after Lewis beached his car in the gravel in a wet pit lane. Kimi’s only title. See how easily the tide can turn? Lando deserved the 7 extra points.
@@jacob4tee Tbf, Kimi has one championship. How many do Max, Seb, Lewis, Michael and Fernando have?
First, I got upset by McLaren for shafting Oscar AGAIN. Then, I got upset by McLaren for shafting Lando AGAIN.
Best way to put it.
yep and they completely ruined the 1-2 and oscar's first win. insane how they manage to mess a 1-2 up.
I think Lando could've let him by early and then fight Oscar.
he was not allowed to fight again
@@McLarenMercedes17 and what are they going to do? Fire him?
That's what I'd have suggested.
@@FurryestX as a driver you don't want to go against your team
They would have told him to hold positions, no way they tell him to let Oscar through just to say free to fight
If McLaren pitts Oscar first none of this nonsense happens
true....i was watcing the race on YT, and there you can only see the team radio and postion, AND even I was like, if Piastri is better, and so ahead og Max, then better pit him first. Coz pitting Norris first, sort of puts Piastri in possible difficult position. I mean to even an untrained eye, it was just a logical conclusion to the whole thing. For a moment I thought, maybe Oscar should let this one slide, as Norris is simply better, its not a clean win for him anyhow. For anything it can possibly strain the relation to some extend, as despite being a race winner, oscar will still be searching for that clean win
exactly, they were clearly prioritizing Lando again, there must had been pressure from outside (Webber most likely) to give Oscar the position back. Oscar almost lost 3rd win in the raw due to no fault of his own. Oscar is a better driver and will start to regularly beat Lando. This season is most likely the last chance for Lando to win championship, but he lacks a champion mentality so the closer he will get to it, the more mistakes he will do.
@@Arek-nb9ptthey were always set on Lando giving the position back, as you can clearly see from Piastri's engineer's audio.
They just failed miserably in effectively communicating with Norris
@@Arek-nb9ptthey agreed before the race that whoever was ahead before the second stop would have priority
"Llando radio check" ...........
....."Foxtrot Oscar !" 😂😂😂🤣🤣🤣
If the McLaren is good enough that Lando catches up to Max by the end of the season, Oscar will be at the front of the field as well. Playing nice and losing seven points now means a teammate that will be willing to help and sacrifice points and positions for team strategies later. The way it was handled was horrible, but I think all parties made the right choice.
It's a long shot to say Lando is in a title fight regardless. He will have to win races regularly to be a genuine contender, and in that world, there will be plenty of instances where he'll be grateful for a healthy team relationship.
yeah, I can see them making the choice to switch them and give Lando less earned wins in the future now that oscar got a deserved win, but if lando had stayed ahead that would just have created friction between them and oscar would be unwilling to let lando through in the future
Exactly those points are secondary, it's more about giving a win to Piastri. He won't feel as hurt if for example he leads in abu dabai and gives it to lando for the championship.
"win races regularly" with a team that wont let him.
@@abigailmcdowell4248deserved win? He made mistakes, gave Norris the undercut possibility.
@@jkalmon Norris made mistakes too and only got ahead because the team made him undercut Piastri twice with preferential pit stops and strategy. The ONLY reason he got ahead was because he got preferential strategy the whole time despite losing his place at the start and not being able to make it up on merit for two thirds of the race. The "mistakes" had no bearing on whether Norris got the undercut or not. Further, there was only one mistake Oscar made which cost him a lot of time and that was thanks to Ocon making it difficult to get past. I would implore you to A) stop making shit up. B) stop revising history to suit whatever bullshit narrative so you can shit on Piastri and gas up Lando at every opportunity because you're a toxic fan. C) actually watch the races and D) really work on improving your memory. Maybe brush up on F1 while you're at it too.
Not really these 7 points, but the botched strategies form previous GPs which should've been converted to wins are more costly IMO. If he loses by 7 points it's not because of Hungaroring it's due to Spain, Silverstone, Canada not being wins when they should've been.
Swapping with Piastri was the correct choice, the chances of overcoming such a big lead in the WDC are there, but not big enough to risk a potential fallout between teammates, which in the end would been a lot more costly if indeed a run for WDC is in the cards.
exactly!
Imagine if Piastri and Webber approached Redbull after this to replace Checo 👀
The race was a Oscar win, but a McLaren loss.
It went almost perfectly for them, Max had an absolute clanger of a race, Ferrari and Mercedes were really nowhere near. Somehow, McLaren, on a 1-2 still managed to screw something up, create drama, and taint Oscar's maiden win.
Lando tainted the win with his drama, not McLaren. He quickly admitted that he hadn't earned the lead or the win.
@@AdmiralRex it was the team that made Oscar lost the lead.
@@AlanGresham no, it was the team by ordering the undercut to Oscar.
@@AlanGresham if they had pitted oscar First, lando would've caught up, he was way faster
@@Samuel-p17 he wouldn't have and he was not. Stop making stuff up.
Insane to not fight for every point in the title when u have fastest car
So do you think we realistically have a drivers title fight?
@@TommoOnTH-camif McLaren keeps outperforming RB then of course we have a title fight.Max's temper tantrums will also benefit Norris cause it seems to me that max makes more mistakes than he used to when he had the fastest car.That is if McLaren as a team actually stops being incompetent
@@TommoOnTH-cam This run of races should have seen RB extending their lead dramatically. All of these euro tracks have traditionally been extremely strong for RB over this ruleset. As we start to go back to street tracks I'd imagine RB will struggle even more, and I do think it's possible we see a fight by the end. RB needed to be strong over the last 6 or so races and they've been the opposite. If they aren't strong on traditional tracks, where are they strong?
It's even more insane for your team to take away your maiden win to favour another driver because they screwed up the strategy again.
@@TommoOnTH-cam totally, as long as mclaren keeps outperforming rb like they did today. If rb struggles to catch up from a technical standpoint, then the WCC is definitely Mclaren's, and if they don't fumble their strategy like they keep on doing as of late (which imo can be blamed on growing pains of sorts), then the WDC might be theirs as well, who knows at this point.
12 races and only 76 points behind. It could have been 69 points. 6 points per race is very achievable
??? Do you think max is just not gonna get any points in next few races or what
Sorry that was a bit rude of me
@@leafsnek He means outscoring Verstappen by 6 points per race
@@leafsnek he means 6 more points than Max per race
@@leafsnek Mclaren are the quickest car mate, they could literally win every race from now to the end
The fact that we’re even having this discussion proves there is no title fight. McLaren are not ready to fight for a title because they are continuing to make poor strategic calls. As a Norris fan, Max has this in the bag. If we can go back in time, the true correct thing would be for McLaren to pit Oscar first, then Lando, then let them fight to the end. Period. If it was way closer of a title fight, then maybe we talk about Oscar giving up his first true race win (…aka hell no he wouldn’t want to do that) for Norris to catch Max.
Even with an 1-2, this was a failed race for McLaren. Awkward first win for Oscar, didn't prioritize Lando's championship charge. Looks like 2022/2023 Ferrari's strategists are now working at McLaren.
The difference is they 'may' regret not letting Norris win, but they 'would' regret losing driver confidence that the team is treating drivers equally.
14:38 "... Oscar is 3.5 (behind), i know you'll do the right thing", and "i promise, i'm trying to protect you" were definitely gaslighting and "...your gonna need Oscar and your gonna need the team" was desperate
Norris to Merc, Ferarri, or RB is in his mind after this GP. Why dedicate your career to a team who shafts your 2nd GP win while gaslighting you
@@goldenox2424they didn’t really shaft it though? Piastri was in the lead from turn 1… if they’d pitted Piastri first, he’d have been ahead - not Lando. The team’s strategy is the only reason Norris ended up ahead in the first place?
If Lando wanted to win the race, he should have kept the lead at the start - but he lost it. That’s what shafted the win. And the team prioritised Piastri because he got ahead on merit at the start.
I’m not saying that means it’s what was best for McLaren’s chances at the drivers championship. And I’m not saying the strategy they did with the undercut was right. They should have just pitted Piastri first.
But no one shafted that win but Lando himself
@gemcockrell idk he was in first and then they said don't be first. Strategy is part of the race
@@goldenox2424 he wouldn’t have been in first if it wasn’t for the team though. he wasn’t there because of merit, he was there because of strategy. so they didn’t really take a win away from him, because the win wouldn’t have been there, unless they did the pit stops that way. strategy is, of course, part of the race, as you said. but they used that strategy to try and protect them from losing positions to lewis. that strategy was never intended to gift lando the win, it was to protect the mclaren 1-2, but they always intended to restore the order after using that strategy, so that piastri could win as he was ahead on merit. it was definitely harsh of them to put him ahead using strategy, and then take it away again. but that was what was agreed and confirmed would happen, before the pit stops took place.
Simply accurate! Just thinking that Lando could have won at least 3 or 4 races by now, while only last week the team ruined it for him with the wrong choice of wheels at the end... and now this - ruin it for both Lando and Oscar. McLaren still have a lot of work to do within the team.
McLaren and Zac, in particular, have been very clear about the "way we want to go racing", i.e. very much NOT the win at all costs regardless approach that so many seem to reference as being the only way "real" champions do. It's their choice to do so, and it's the drivers choice to be at that team and follow its racing philosophy.
I agree. Like, it’s not like the way McLaren have presented their values are a secret.
I’m sorry to say this because I love Lando, but he doesn’t have the minerals to be a Driver’s Champion. Max, Lewis, Seb, Senna, Schumacher and many others would never have given that spot back. Furthermore, Lando only has 1 win in his career so far, he isn’t in a position to even be giving up wins.
The thing is though he had to cause the team forced him by threatening not to help him for the rest of the season
I like Lando. But you could add Russell & Leclerc to that list of names. Both have more wins despite having less opportunities to win. Especially recently.
Imo, that says a lot.
@@gameofender4463russell and leclerc have their fair share of bottled wins
@@gameofender4463Leclerc has definitely had more opportunity
@@barbonson_richards But they’ve never had a car as consistently good as the McLaren. Which would explain why they felt the need to push the car harder/to it’s limit.
I mean, at this point if Lando stayed in front, everybody would be making videos commenting on whether he has broken his relationship with McLaren and Oscar. Basically, he would have got criticism whatever he had done. Also, comparing his situation with those of Schumacher, Vettel and Verstappen as many people do makes no great sense, as the dynamic at their respective teams revolved around a lead and a second driver, while McL doesn't offer such treatment at the moment. In other cases or in a different team, he may have been more than justified to be selfish, but in this case it would have probably been the start of a meltdown between the driver and the team.
Mclaren does have a lead driver second driver dynamic the fuck piastri constantly and this race wouldnhave been the case but they relized the backlash
@@davidvalencia129 bs, McL have always said that they judge who the leading driver is on race by race basis, depending on pace, tire situation and so on. When you think about it, every time when piastri has been told to make way, Lando has either had superior pace or a tyre advantage. Oscar himself had the pace on Lando for the better chunk of the race, which is why McL gave him the preference at the end of the day. It is just lazy to claim that they just screw Piastri over because Lando is the golden boy
@@user-rk2ut6ph2h they are in the habit of screwing over Piastri an awful lot though and Lando IS the golden boy for Zak and half the team. That much cannot be denied. Lando is favoured most the time, which would be OK if it was just mere strategy details or positions and Lando was miles ahead or properly leading Oscar when it happens but that's often not the case. Instead they favour Lando and hang Piastri out to dry at the same time, often costing him a podium. It's like they focus ALL of their strategy effort on Lando and then suddenly remember Oscar as an afterthought, rather than giving BOTH of their drivers the best strategy at that point like every other team. Preferential strategy and treatment doesn't have to come at the expense of the other driver. The number of podiums Oscar has missed out on this season is insane.
@@RockSolitude That McL are suspect when it comes to strategy is more than a fair assessment, to me they should definitely reshuffle the strategy team. However, it is a bit of an overexaggeration (and maybe recency bias) that Piastri has often lost podiums because of the team, to me that has been a fact in only two cases. On the top of my mind, here are the races where he has come near one:
- Jeddah - McL wasn't as fast as the RB or Ferrari
- Australia - Lando had the pace on him, could be marginal but still a fact
- Imola - McL mistake in quali, that is on them
- Silverstone - we all know what happened there, strategy team was in the mud
To sum up, I just see the base logic in McL's actions, they always try to prevent the drivers from tripping all over each other and losing time in the race and more often than not Lando has been the one gunning for the higher positions.
It's lose lose for his image but f all that noise, do you think Max or Lewis is caring in his position.. They are ruthless, it's their first shot at the championship, McLaren have just blundered the strategy, they will race for themselves and let the team deal with any issues. Lando is way too nice, way too team player, it's gonna bite him up rear.
Oscar makes a bunch of sacrifices for Lando every race, he’s a great teammate. Those seven points are not worth ruining Oscar’s relationship with Lando and causing him to stop being a team player. Lando truly does have better odds of winning with Oscar in his corner. Whole thing was McLaren’s fault
P1astri will be wdc before teletubby crybaby
@@dsb7318 and what does that make you?
I like Piastri more than Lando, but he made sacrifices for Lando because he wasn’t on the pace and was not in contention for wins or podium positions.
Piastri in this race, made two mistakes. First he went off by himself which let Lando catch up and get into undercut range. Then he went into the gravel losing seconds to Lando making it hard to justify Lando slowing down and letting him through. Again, Piastri I like much more than Lando, but Lando should have won that race.
Everyone saying “what if lando is 7 points short of champ?” , but what about if Piastri needs to hold max off for Lando to get points. Maybe team game is more important than people think.
@@wazzlopiok240 The thing is, if Lando doesn’t even get there because they do stuff like that, it wouldn’t matter. But if Lando is 7 points off, no matter what happened previously, Oscar will help the team. He is not gonna cost the team a world championship just because he didn’t win once.
If Oscar was 2 seconds ahead and came out 2.5 behind, then he lost 4.5 seconds, meaning that if the roles were reversed (like they should have been since Oscar was leading) Oscar would be 6.5 seconds ahead, which would be an easy win. Even if Lando pitted only 1 lap after, he would still need to close the gap and overtake him with only a few laps to go which I don't think he would be able to do. They did them both dirty
Lando giving up this spot giving piastri his first win is good teammate karma. While this might be a bad move for this year’s D championship, piastri’s support driving could be beneficial later on.
I think it was the right call to give back the position to Piastri. Later on they can agree to stand behind Norris for the driver's championship, but it needs to be an agreement. Their first target is the constructor's championship and you need 2 compliant drivers for that.
Tommo Silverstone: if Max extends this week it’s championship over
*extends lead over Norris*
Tommo after Hungary: Championship on??
Tommo for Race Engineer! Your take on what they should have said was *chef’s kiss*.
How come nobody is mentioning the potential 25 points he threw away in Austria. People need to stop banging on about 7 points lost. If he loses the WDC by 7 it won’t be because of this result. Go Oscar great result ,and massive ups to Lando for giving up that position it must have been hard
gotta say, love the tommo-colored edited f1 footage!
Danke!
To be fair, Mclaren and Lando lost a whole lot more than these 7 points so if they lose the championship, it would be down to these errors and not only because of this race.
We should stop to fixate to much on the recent events, imo it was the right thing to do as Oscar drove a great race. This was definitely Mclaren's fault but Oscar shouldn't suffer because of that. Lando as well, as he was highly pressured by Mclaren because of their own mistake.
This is not just about Hungary if they lose.
When Lando got his first win, Mclaren sacrificed Piastri's position to by pitting him after everyone else. It's only right for Lando to repay the equal favor.
Still it's a weird call. Piastri didn't look like someone who just got his first win when he came out of the car. Knowing you've won by team orders is way worse than knowing you've won by a bad call from the others pit stop.
Lol, that's the only way McLaren can win, screwing the other drivers race. You can be certain this team is not ready for championships any time soon.
right and some poles of lando was piastri also being set aside but mclaren strategy is just
Nah, later the season you need Piastri. If he didn't give up, Piastri isn't willing to help and you still miss points.
I don’t think you’re remembering the circumstances of Miami correctly at all. Both cars were going long, Oscar was ahead and pitted first. Then the safety car came out the next lap which benefitted Lando who hadn’t yet pitted. There was nothing strategy related imposed by the team on Oscar in this situation. It was just the bad luck of the safety car timing.
I really wanted lando to jump to the dark side yesterday. With all the "do the right thing, for the team" BS mclaren was trying to pull. They were the ones who did this anyway and lando had all the right not to give the place back
That would have made things even more worse for everyone. For Lando, for Oscar and for the team.
@@RockSolitude It's gonna be worse anyway, because fundamentally, McLaren have all the managerial and strategic capabilities of a box of inebriated rats and that's doing the rats a disservice, McLaren are that bad. They fumbled again, and they'll do it again and again until they get caught slipping, which will inevitably happen, the moment another team scrambles a clean enough weekend together to challenge. McLaren are just not it operationally.
@@RockSolitude if mclaren is serious about competing at the top again, shit like this shouldn't happen. They don't have a barrichello, bottas or perez that they can sacrifice if needed. That "pls do it for the team lando 😢can you imagine your mondays with oscar if you dont 🥺 we are team papaya 🧡✨" will not lead to anything
That’s fine, but it sets the future tone. If there was a situation again where Lando really does need a strategy intervention with the aid of his teammate to maintain his position he couldn’t expect to get it because they’d be forced to prioritise the lead car 100% to avoid a repeat of the drama.
Being a Gran Prix winner means a great boost to your confidence. I think Mclaren wanted that for Oscar. Not that his confidence was around Perez's level but now its boosted. Now Mclaren have two gran prix winners.
Imagine the scenes if Lando does win the title this year though
Absolutely the right thing on mclarens part and for Lando too. This is being blown out of proportion.
Pretty sure having oscars back through the season will be worth more than 7 points rather than completely destroying the relationship with a teammate like piastri.
I would warn lando. But I wont force him to abide. But I would encourage oscar, “you have the tire, you have the pace, go get him”
The whole point was Oscar didn’t have the tires cause he completely ruined them by driving off the track into the gravel. Which makes this win even more gifted and undeserving at the end.
i think this is just another clink in the armor... In a couple of years all of these little things are going to add up and Lando is going to go to RedBull or Mercedes and McLaren is going to wonder why
@rasawyer bold of u to think mclaren would reflect.
Another display of Lando's immature mentality.
As long as McLaren are going as good as they are with the car, Lando is not going anywhere. He's still the favourite driver in the team too.
@@ronmastrio2798immature to want to be number one driver in the team youve invested in since 2019?
Win the race and people would have called him a selfish bastard. Lose the race and people call him not capable of winning a championship. Norris just can’t win
He could have let Oscar past when he was first told to while getting his battery charged, then passed him back for the win. Instead he dawdled like a child who doesn't want to take a bath until it was too late.
@@bobclarke5913 you try driving an f1 car mate. It’s tough, you don’t always make the right decisions fast enough and I don’t blame him for making that mistake since he had the conflicting thoughts of wanting the race while wanting to please the team. You can’t always just make that kind of decision in a split second, and so I wouldn’t really compare it at all to a child whining in a bathtub
@@zenthous9568 It wasn't split second, he was told right after he pitted that he'd need to get that place back. He then proceeded to spend the next ~8 laps ignoring that order.
Well hardly anybody is calling him selfish for being a spoilt brat on the radio Lando can do no wrong in the eyes of some.
@@ronmastrio2798 How was he a spoilt brat? I dont really understand that point of view
Saying Lando isn’t cut out to be champion is ridiculous. All you really need is points, and every champion has walked their own path. People are acting like people who could be team players when needed are not capable of winning a championship; Damon Hill, Lauda, Raikonnen, Button.
Lando did what was right as he knows that him and Piastri should be teammates for 3+ more years. McLaren should come out and apologise for putting both their drivers in such a bad position.
Apologizing for their own mistakes is not typical McLaren behavior 😂😂
No one has ever overcome such a big deficit to win a title, so we can't call it a title fight. Norris would have to win races regularly to have a chance, which he hasn't done. Both Norris himself and McLaren as a team have equally thrown away points for Norris at each of the last 7 races.
Mclaren always seem to want the minimum not the maximum theyre happy with a wcc when a wdc is possible the same way in the race theyre okay with a p2 and rarely try to strategise catching max at p1
Its absolutely a title fight, if Red Bull doesnt gain performance again and Mclaren/Mercedes gains 0.2s and Max is fighting for 3rd - 5th instead of wins
Didn't watch the video yet, but if giving up 7 points at the halfway point means giving up on the championship, they never had a chance to begin with. Sure, it can go down to the wire and end with less than 7 points difference, but like I said, if at halfway point they think 7 is giving up, they were never in the game
The "oh probably Norris would regret those seven points" does not stand, because we have to make the same argument for all the other points the team and him have lost during this season. Suddenly those 7 points are essential, whilst every other no?
@leo63037 if you look at it another way, how many times has mclaren screwed Norris's strategy and caused his maiden win to delay till 2024. This is how mclaren repays loyalty.
It's about control, do you really not understand that? Those 7 points were fully under McLaren's control. There was no realistic threat from Lewis who was more than 10s behind. McLaren had complete control over where those 7 points went, and they deliberately gave them to a driver further away in the driver's championship. There are no other points on the table where the team had complete control. That is what makes these 7 points different from the others. Hopefully that's clear.
Yep agreed. This was a total botch job but the 7 points is nothing compared to their other missed opportunities this season.
that just makes the 7 points all the more crucial. screw up a few times so just give up entirely? good thing youre not part of a RACING team
TF? McLaren DECIDED to give away 7 points. That's the issue here.
Oscar gave up his preferred strategy for the team to secure the 1-2 on the idea he'd be given the place back. If you think Lando was still robbed you need a reality check, HE WOULDN'T HAVE EVEN BEEN THERE WITHOUT BEING GIVEN THE UNDERCUT. Not to mention that instead of throwing his toys out he could have let Oscar through early and had 20 laps to fight him and not the 2 he had.
I like how the hypothetical everyone makes up is "Lando could lose by 7 points" and not "Lando could destroy Oscar and his team's trust" or "Lando won't be able to count on Oscar to help him in the future when he needs it". Such a stupid narrative. Also, why are these 7 points suddenly essential and not all the points Lando missed out on in Silverstone and Austria? The bias is really showing as of late.
>Also, why are these 7 points suddenly essential and not all the points Lando missed out on in Silverstone and Austria? The bias is really showing as of late.
McLaren had full control over those 7 points. 100% complete control. You cannot say that about Silverstone and Austria. Austria was points lost to a rival hitting them. Silverstone was points lost to another team's driver being extremely good on that day. Hungary is the only race where the points were fully under team control. This was a choice by McLaren. You have control over your choices. They did not choose the result in Austria or Silverstone. If you cannot understand that difference idk what to tell you. It's very clear.
"Norris could destroy Piastri's trust" wouldn't be in the conversation at all if McLaren wouldn't have made the call in the first place.
McLaren decided to give more points to Piastri to not only lessen the feeling of his first win, but also lessen the chance of their top driver winning the championship.
McLaren making that call in the first place is a very weird decision, Piastri wouldn't have much to complain about, Norris is happy and maybe get extra motivated to fight for the title.
@@GeHeum i'm not arguing that. McLaren should have given Piastri the preferential pit and we wouldn't even be talking about this and instead be celebrating Piastri's win.
@@BNJ_SOT Silverstone was points lost because of a massive cock up from team strategy (and also a bit of a cock up from Lando). Both Oscar and Lando had a real shot at winning that race and it could have been a 1-2 like in Hungary.
Austria is all on Lando for not winning that. Both Lando and Max are to blame obviously but Lando could have raced smarter and even avoided that final collision just by taking more of the kerb. Though he lost it anyway for going off track and getting a 5s penalty so.
@@BNJ_SOT And Lando had control over many more points which he wasted.
Lando doesn't have it.
Verstappen in the same situation would take the win and remind the team he can still win the title.
Lando allowed the team to forget about his own ambitions.
To play devil's advocate, I think the only way that Lando wins the driver's championship is with McLaren dominance & then it likely won't come down to 7 points if it happens.
It was about Piastris first win. Its insane its even debated about handing it to Norris for the Championship. At least Barichello already had a win in his pocket when the well known "let Michael pass for the championship" came over the radio and yet it was highly unpopular. Funny how times change
Maybe it's a controversial opinion but I think this call is better in the long run. It's very difficult to maintain the relationship between two talented, competitive drivers. Oscar now has confidence that he will be treated fairly by the team. Plus it was his first win which is always special and taking it away so that Lando can get a little closer in a fight where he only has a slim chance of winning would begin to shatter a very healthy team environment.
The facts are this: If you want a competitive championship this season, you need McLaren to DOMINATE the rest of the season
That’s it
"Norris,its James, let Piastri by on turn 1. We know you want to win the Drivers Championship but we dont care." This is exactly what this was in my eyes and to deny Norris the chance because they know he cant say anything back considering his position in the sport is really ugly to see. Edit: You need to be some sort of selfish if you want to win a world title and Lando doesnt have the position to be exactly that, wich is a problem in the sport overall sadly. I mean, try to tell Max to slow down so Checo can catch up to the people behind Max, he would plug the radio cable instantly ^^
This is a very long season. If Lando is going to lose out to Max because of 7 points I can guarantee there will be any number of situations where doing something differently could have not lost them. One such example could be the haste with which Lando drove to the pits in Austria post collision, chewing up half his car in the process & retiring the car whilst Max went back out. Whether handing the place back has doomed him will only be clear with hindsight, imo endless speculation about it in the meantime is a waste of time.
If this happens, yes lando can look at this incident but there are other events that could change that outcome that fall entirely on lando such as spain and Silverstone and imola
one race doesn't define a championship, it's multiple races over that time period and if he loses by a narrow margin, races like canada,spain and silverstone where errors were made can be looked at what made the difference.
So Lando did his own race, by SOME reason Team decides stopping him first, and now its his fault???
People are smoking something????
Basically everything is Lando’s fault
Not entirely. The main instigator at fault was McLaren with their pit stop decisions. Hamilton wouldn’t have posed a threat to Lando, even if he pitted two laps after Lewis. The only fault I see in Lando was his objections towards reestablishing the race order, since the swap happened due to McLaren panicking about a potential Hamilton undercut. That’s what truly soured it for a lot of people. He could’ve got off the line better, to stay ahead in T1 or he could overtaken Oscar on track. Instead he cruised behind him for the most part. That’s not championship pedigree, if you can’t catch up and overtake your teammate in his second season in the sport. If Lando had done a Coulthard in Australia 1998 and allowed Oscar through again without discussion, we’d only be arguing over McLaren’s incompetence, not about Lando’s putrid attitude towards sportsmanship. Piastri has been shafted multiple times prior, so Lando got the better finish and he took it with more maturity than most on the grid would’ve. Humble in victory, graceful in defeat. Lando ain’t either.
They agreed before the race that whoever was ahead before the second pit stop would have priority. Lando himself agreed to this. So to go back on it, midway through the race, would have been his fault yes.
The team shouldn’t have stopped him first. But that was the strategy that was agreed. Lando knew that in advance.
They agreed before the race that whoever was ahead before the second pit stop would have priority. Lando himself agreed to this. So to go back on it, midway through the race, would have been his fault, yes. To betray your team like that is bad sportsmanship.
The team were at fault. They shouldn’t have stopped him first. But that was the strategy that was agreed. Lando knew that in advance. The position was Piastri’s and the only reason Lando was ahead was because of the strategy. He needed to give the position back to reestablish race order.
The thing is if Lando loses the Drivers by 7 points McLaren is too big an entity to admit fault and will deny that they could've won the Drivers championship.
I dont like seeing Drivers screwed over and I dont have anything against Lando, but maybe he needs to lose in order to realise that he's gonna win himself a Drivers not his team.
Remember Malaysia 2013? Seb disobeying orders to not attack and overtake Webber. This won him 7 points more but a bad relationship with his teammate and kinda set the tone of who is boss at the team, hence Webber leaving - aaaand Ricciardo stepping up and destroying Seb as a teammate in 2014.
Imagine Norris winnig the next 6 races and Verstappen DNF'ing in all of them, and people will forget the lost 7 points of Hungary and give him more credit for being a teamplayer. Norris did the right thing, if this lost him the championship he will gain much more respect from the fans and the team. In the long term and with the current standing in the championship, this it the best thing to do for him. I think a whole lot of sympathy is much more worth than 7 points.
Lando should have given the position back straight away, then he could have tried to get back ahead on track.
You can’t forget the fact that 7 points are not worthy losing your Wingman over the last 11 races, Oscar has a very good mindset, but it is a possibility that even With the fastest car Max could outscore Oscar with his morale down, not giving it everything, losing some easy 2nd place more than once or some weak qualy that leads to Max having to fight one McLaren instead of 2.
The first thought that comes to mind is that Norris lacks the killing instinct that the Greats are known for, but his choice to let Oscar past is the most smart thing to do With the really bad situation his team created, maybe Lando has the instinct, but McLaren lacks it at the moment. RB, Mercedes and even Ferrari would do a better job at a similar scenario.
Lando wins in 2024-1
Max wins in 2024-7
And we are talking about a World Title?
@@chamindujanith6337 Worth highlighting that Carlos, Charles, George, Lewis and now Oscar have as many wins in 2024 as Norris. But they’ve been a lot more unlucky than him.
@@gameofender4463 You mean Norris was more lucky than Sainz, Leclerc, Piastri, Hamilton, Russell?
On a 24 race season where redbull even with updates on this track was behind AMG and Mclaren... mclaren without Updates
And mclaren being a team that already wasted 3 wins, but with more opportunities on a future.
Friendships on track are only for your career duration...
Wins are forever written on history...
Lando in the mclaren car has been the fastest for the last 7 races if mclaren strategy was good this would be very different
McLaren is progressively getting faster while RB is getting slower (relatively). It's only fair to assume Lando will start winning some more races especially now that he's getting used being put into high pressure situations
Who is not to say Piastri from here on in starts to edge up closer as a title contender? He’s had the most points nearly out of the last 4 races and is consistent. It was the right call to make this as McLaren are looking at the bigger picture. They’ve got 2 young talented drivers, the fastest car. Both are contacted for next year so it’s likely there may be more of this in the future and potentially next year also. All of the other front teams have drivers leaving so the dynamics at Redbull, Mercedes and Ferrari are different. This pair will race closely with a fast car for the rest of this year and next so McLaren are playing the long game and it will be swings and roundabouts.
I think Piastri has a better shot than Lando if he keeps his level head personality on and off the track. Lando is clearly desperate for another win, worrying about every move his competitors make rather than buckling down and getting clean wins or at least having clean races.
But if McLaren want a chance at winning any world championship, they too need to check their attitudes and strategies. They too are in over their heads at the moment and need to get themselves into shape.
Norris is in such a vicious spiral right now
The more opportunities to win he bottles, the less wins he gets to make himself more comfortable in that position and the more pressure he puts on himself, the more he messes up the next opportunity
His starts used to be very good but messing up two starts from pole so badly in the same exact way is unbelievable
yeah even though I'm an Oscar fan and glad he managed to take the lead, I couldn't believe what Lando was doing. Like he did the exact same thing in Spain and the outcome was almost identical. It also reminded me heavily of what Ocon did against Alonso in Hungary 2022. Why he tried to defend so hard against Oscar and not just keep his line and try to make it to the corner first I don't understand. He basically handed Oscar the lead and nearly gave Verstappen and Hamilton 2nd and 3rd. Oscar didn't even have to do anything, all he did was get a good launch and then drive straight.
he messes up starts from everywhere, not just pole. its like 2016 hamilton. couldve won the title with better starts.
Hearing the radio messages definitely changed my perspective on the whole situation, although Piastry is my favourite driver I’m not sure if McLaren did the right thing with how they handled that radio message with Lando. It is shame to see such a historically decorated team be so out of touch with what it’s like to handle a championship whether that’s the constructors or the drivers.
I don't think we could call this a title fight yet. The only time a gap this big has been closed (recalculated to current point system) was 1976 (before Niki almost burned alive) and 2007 (where FIA probably forced McLaren to lose the championship).
I feel giving Oscar the win was the correct call (after the pitstop blunder that swapped the running order) as McLaren obviously expects to be in contention next season and the difference in point gap is not worth the probably fallout between Oscar and the team.
bro consistently makes banger videos so quickly... good stuff tommo
Let’s do some comparisons
Hungary 2017: Lewis gives up 3 points, wins championship without it anyway
Russia 2018: Lewis gains 7 points, would’ve won title anyway
2022 Brazil: Max doesn’t give up the spot, Perez gets P3 without it anyway
In the end, the gaps in the championship will most likely be large and Lando chose integrity over statistics
he was badgered into giving it back.. let's be real..
2021, Hamilton loses it on baku... that, THAT could let him the win
What about Australia 1998? Häkkinen gained 4 points which meant he was going into the finale 4 points ahead of Schumacher, otherwise they would be on equal points
@@RoyLimisAw3s0me Yea, forced to chose integrity.😂
Oscar schooled Lando in turn one. He is smarter, braver and more emotionally strong than his teammate. I think he will eventually prevail. McLaren need to be careful not to keep slaughtering him like they did at Silverstone. I think any other team would love to have Oscar
otherwise would be "Why McLaren could regret damaging their team spirit by ruining Oscar's race once again"
Long-term team chemistry and morale is a lot more important than 7 points from one race. Especially when you've got a driver line-up that's built to last for many years.
I think how he drove the last 5 races made the decision of giving him the win hard for the team. He really fumbled hard so many wins lately
McLaren love to screw Oscar over with the undercut, this wasn't the first time. They could have avoided this if they just pitted Oscar first. Lando was never in threat by Ham
As an Australian (and I’m trying not to show my bias), Lando threw away an easy win by not giving the position back straight away. He was always going to have to drop back to P2, but there was a 50/50 chance the team would’ve let him fight Oscar for victory afterwards
I 100% agree
Agree. He let his stubbornness and ego get in the way. He could have easily battled Piastri for the win after letting him by
not true, you need like a 1 sec/lap difference to pass on this track, the entire race until the last stint piastri was faster. On the last stint lando was pushing his car to the max while piastri was only maintaining his gap to hamiltion was was only .3 sec slower than lando, he wasnt going to pass him.
The what if’s? for lando’s championship aren’t the 7 points lost to his teammate over this win when they were clearly better than the red bull but all the points he could’ve taken from Max when the cars were closer to equal in the last 7-8 races
Norris doesnt have champion mentality. Why didnt he say to the team I can let him by but I will go full send after to re overtake as im faster, so put the decision back to the team. They would probably have kept norris in P1 as not to risk a collision and ruin 1-2 finish. It is not like lando asked to undercut Oscar, so he should have been selfish IMO
Dat GT OST is just... chef's kiss.
Short answer, no. It was already over for the WDC. Norris would’ve needed a ridiculous amount of luck to close what is now a 76 point gap. And simply put, he’s lost out on so many wins through his own mistakes and the team’s mistakes.
So even if he did win it, it’d be an incredibly hollow victory, that came from the failures of Red Bull, not because Norris was incredible this season.
So in the long run, it’s better for the team to keep Norris & Piastri on equal terms to try and win the constructors. And think about the WDC, for next season.
TLDR, no point trying to favour Lando/disadvantage Oscar for no reason when there’s nothing to gain.
I think max will still win it but you never know in f1 if red bull drops off more 7 points could be difference but I think McLaren will win the constructors championship the wdc will be max I think but it will be close at the end but will probably be wrapped by Qatar or vegas
I mean there definitely isn't a championship battle now after McLaren's team orders
Exactly!
@@joshswain9288I doubt they’re going to drop off much. The only team I see them being slower than, other than McLaren, are Mercedes. And even then I still think the Red Bull will still be the second fastest overall at minimum.
It is not over even now as mclaren have the fastest car, they have fumbled it and the only reason norris gave him the place was that his own team threatened him
Love this new Thumbnail style Tommo
All it takes is for max to have some unreliability problems for norris to be within a realistic shot of surpassing max in points. Extra 7 points could be massive in that scenario.
Too right. Also, all it takes is for Max and Lando to run into each other a couple of more times, and suddenly Oscar in one of the fastest cars is also in the hunt. See what I did there?
dude, if it ever does get down to 7 points, look at the shanghai sprint. look at austria. look at silverstone. look at spain. look at canada. it's wild that you're fixating on this result
@@rickyspanish4951 Yes there’s very obviously a reason that Norris is 75 points down right now. Those mistakes would not be talked about if Norris loses the championship by 7 or fewer points though because the points he lost from those mistakes were not voluntarily given up.
@theread3480 idk man, watch turn 1 in the shanghai sprint again, that was pretty voluntary. Also Silverstone was completely voluntary, no one forced them onto softs
@theread3480 guess lando going off at turn 1 of spa was also the team's fault. Let's go back to discussing how the team lost him the championship
Even if Lando can still fight for the championship, I think it's already over, verstappen has 76 points gap to norris + this season philosophy shows that at any point McLaren can fall off like Ferrari right now. They should focus on the constructors championship as long as Perez stays at RedBull
Lando will never become a WC, he makes too many mistakes just like Russell, unlike Piastri who is a WC material
Lando does not mistakes, piastri made a mistake yesterday and the team bailed him out by threatening his team mate and at the start oscar was very lucky that lando gave him room cause there could have been a crash had he not cause oscad took the piss in turn 1
Lando beats Piastri in the same car so how does that work
To keep in mind, if a team start to use a strat in favour of one driver, it will build more rivalery between drivers. Now you don't want to see another "Ham-Ros", or a Lando redoing a Austrian GP but with Oscar this time. Not managing the two drivers could result in a loss of a 43 points if the two drivers are in front and "race too hard", Lando would loss the 25 points in that scenario.
So not only it's bad for the driver championship, way worst than 7 little points, but it also damage the constructor
Lando didn’t help his case when he lost the lead in the first corner and he has consistently done so in the past. If he wants to be champion, he needs to button up his race craft. McLaren did allow for this situation to happen, but Lando needs to own what he said in the interview and do better. I know he can do it and I’m rooting for him.
It's clear that McLaren's pistop strategy/communication needs some serious work after the last few races. They've built a brilliant car, but you can't have the mistakes that they've had with selecting the wrong tires, getting undercut, asking your driver what tire they want, emotionally gaslighting your #1 driver, etc. and expect to win the championship. It's embarrassing.
Norris isn’t good enough at this stage of his career and McLaren know it. 76 points as a gap halfway through the season might be doable for someone like Lewis or Charles, but not Lando.
As a McLaren fan, I fully understand that the 1-2 was and always was going to be the absolute priority. That being said, while I'd be heartbroken for Piastri, as long as one of your drivers has a chance for that driver's title, you have to give him that chance. It's the team equivalent of that old quote, "If you don't go for an overtaking chance you're not really driving". It'd be gutting for Piastri; that being said there have been a few questionable strategy calls that took away winning opportunities from Lando, too. In the end, the main flaw with all this is how it hadn't been resolved beforehand in a team strategy meeting. Like, every driver should have known before the race even started what was going to happen in scenarios like that.
Then there wouldn't have been a need for an embarrassing display on radio like the one we saw that detracts from what should have objectively been a jubilant moment for fans of both these drivers and the team.
McLaren took an L here imo, they should be prioritising Lando unless it's mathematically impossible to not win the Drivers. And Piastri didn't even seem that bothered cos it got handed to him on a plate.
Imagine arguing that they should be prioritising Lando at the cost of everything else.
@@RockSolitude yeah why would f1 racing teams want to win... insanity....
Norris had the lead handed to him on a plate in the first place
They can’t tell oscar lando is going for WDC, while oscar was entering pits he sensed it the team assured him there will be no problem. Mclaren sabbotaging two consecutive races where he was leading, they can’t afford a breach of trust in the team. If I am Oscar I am not taking any pit orders, anyway my team is sabbotaging me. If I am Mark Webber I already talked with horner and Toto. Mclaren did the mistake there was no way to correct it, except switching after coming out of pits, they went for switchback lando didn’t even replied. He knew what he was doing. Mclaren choose the lesser evil afterwards. Only one winner here lando, he now have a leverage over his team.
Imagine Lando catching up Max in the championship and then Piastri doing Perez Abu Dhabi 21 performances to help him. That would've been such a turnaround. I mean I don't think it's gonna happen, but that would be awesome :D
Honestly YES PLEASE
The thing I dislike most is that McLaren should really have had some kind of an agreement in place that whoever is leading the race in the Drivers Championship within the team after X amount of races gets the push from the team. There are 23 GP’s in 2024 so say after 6 races, whoever has the most points within the team gets the push, gets the priority upgrades, gets the assistance towards podiums and race wins from the other team mate and the team. That way if say Lando comes 2nd this year, if Oscar had the higher points total after 6 races next year then he’s the one who gets the push.
The points Verstappen should’ve lost by clonking into Hamilton could’ve made a difference but they judged it on outcome rather than action. If Hamilton had also spun or crashed then they’d have absolutely punished him because he was out of control
Funny how the same people calling for a penalty there thought Lando doing the same thing was just hard racing in Austria.
Simply put..... no. Lando won't sniff the title this year
if he wanted those 7 points he should have passed oscar on track. not by a sneaky team decision.
Sneaky team decision? McLaren made the call to pit him, Norris just does what a driver does and drive fast.
As much as I want Oscar to win, racing-wise it makes sense for Lando to win. But I don't think they'll regret this just because there have been other situations where Mclaren could have gotten more that this isn't something they'll hyperfocus on as the point where they loose the drivers' title. It's the same I'll say with Massa 2008 or Hamilton 2021 (even though the situation is very different): You win or loose a championship over a season, not a race. There are always the will-haves, could-haves, and should-haves and this isn't any different.
But what they might regret on is how the situation played out. If they really want to prioritize Lando or Oscar, just clearly hop on the radio and then order them to either swap or hold position (probably what I would have done). Do not go through the back and forth about tire wear or pushing too much or what's basically guilt tripping because it just made the situation silly. It's Silverstone indecision all over again. It's not making it clear to either driver what they want. At this point they need a James Vowles Mercedes-era figure in that team to make it clear to both drivers that the pitwall means business.
Long-term, it would be interesting to see how this affects Lando and Oscar. Because Lando is now the undeserving villain and had to give a win away despite him slowly going into the champion-like mentality that would ultimately bring him to a title fight. But then Oscar would likely also be more tamed looking back at this given how much this would have hurt Lando to do just for him even if Lando may not admit it. It's just unnecessary drama that Mclaren created.
The only thing this whole debacle has reiterated to me is just how toxic f1 fans are, like yikes even this comment section is polarized
It's just the British and Lando fans. Unfortunately.
Saw this on twitter from one of the mclaren mechanics. He quoted that it was well known throughout both garages that the person who is in front into the last round of pitstops will win the race. Their focus was 100 percent on getting the 1-2. No matter the order. The swap was a fulfilment of that request. Lando had an opportunity to win at the first turn and blew it. Deserving win from Oscar, be even sweeter if he wins again in spa.
Also.... "nobody remembers Ferrari won the constructors title in 2008. Dude, literally everybody remembers that.
Doubt it
No1 does. Everyone remembers the WDC. It’s the only thing that matters.
Wtf is wrong with McLaren?
Either box Oscar first, or at least TELL Lando the plan for the swap, even better? Lando hearing & agreeing to the strategy.
I knew it was a 2 lap delay! I was wondering if I imagined it because no one mentioned how Oscar wasn’t even pitted right away.
But also, why doesn’t McLaren believe Lando is in a championship? Are they blind?
If Max is crumbling, there’s a reason for it.
McLaren 👏🏻 is 👏🏻a 👏🏻 threat👏🏻
Max is human he can only take so much. He’s been over performing that car and with Checo starting at the back, AGAIN looking at BOTH McLaren’s in front of him. Yeah. That’s a mindfuck.
Why weren’t Red Bull undercutting what the fuck I found that so frustrating
I don't really think 7 points will make the difference, but if it actually gets that close I think Piastri's cooperation and support really could make the difference.
Live long Mclaren fan here. Always been a team supporter over a driver supporter. I can see where Lando was coming from but Oscar did everything he had too in the first stints that the pitstop thumble was unfair on him. As you said Oscar has had some bad luck and think he really did deserve this win. Lando does deserve many more wins after sticking with the team all these years and helping to rebuild it, but still you don't bite the hand that feeds you. He's got to realise how close Oscar is in performance to him and he's been prioritised by the team with the rushed upgrades that have helped him pull more ahead of Oscar. Me personally, if I was Mclaren and Lando had taken that win, next rushed upgrade I would of gave to Oscar to prove a point and show Lando that he doesn't come above the team and that they have a second driver the team can now rely upon. In the end Lando did the right thing, the team did cock up and should of done as Tommo said with the radio messages. Let's just hope Spa is better.
Good video! You hit the nail on its head.
Oscar deserved the win, but it should've been Lando. As an Oscar fan, I feel terrible for Oscar having to remember this as his first F1 win. He will always feel like it wasn't entirely deserver, as he was given the position without a fight, despite a better weekend from him overall. The right decision was to give Lando the points, bringing him closer to the driver championship title, and sparing Oscar's first F1 win for a race that was won purely off his own success.