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@@armoredcorelore Have you played the PS2 version? Haven't seen the entire viedo so idk if this gets mentioned, but I like the PS2 version more than the PSP one.
@@armoredcorelore I see, I hope you have fun if you decide to try it out. It's easier than the PSP version as you don't need to win *every* battle, only the important ones, but the gameplay is personally more fun as you are going to use all 5 ACs instead of the PSP one where you only need one, so the parts limitation actually means something there for starters. The story happens probably right after the end of the PSP version, most of the characters are different for better and for worse. I'll just say that there's a lot more random factors in the game and unlike the PSP version it's non-linear, so depending on your progression the story may not make sense. (played it through emulation btw, if it's at all important)
I'd like to point out a couple of things. First, I'm in the camp that AC4 and 4A are absolutely tied to ACV and Vday, due to the appearance of two very prominent elements: the ruins of an old adversary in a certain mission and the entire final boss fight. Unless they're stated to just be cameos, I don't know of any other way that they can be explained. Second, and so many Armored Core videos neglect to mention this, ACV and Vday are the odd ones out because they're basically just spiritual successors to Chrome Hounds. When CH's servers shut down FromSoft took that template and applied it to AC. The focus on multiplayer, the urban environments, the Kinetic/Heat/Chemical damage types and the choosing of factions with world bosses are all from Chrome Hounds.
The emblem editor for AC4 was a carbon copy reuse of the one in chromehounds. The engine and graphics had the same look as well. Like you could swap assets between the games and they wouldn’t look out of place if that makes any sense.
@@KaikuPen i honestly think they shouldve kept the pixel art emblem maker, but just make it even more indepth, the emblem editor from 4 and 5 are amazing, but they definitely have a way bigger learning curve
What's particularly great about both Last Raven and For Answer is the heavy amount of branching storylines based on which missions you take for different clients; doing multiple playthroughs deliver character (and corporate) motivations to you based on how they respond to what you do in a given playthrough.
AC3 was when Miyazaki entered the company but nevered work in AC to the fullest capacity until AC4, he was either in the programming backend, or planning (last raven)
I had a really fun day today (I drove double the speed limit blasting armored core music) The police tried pursuing me but once they heard the Armored Core: For Answer ost they said "Men back up this guy's core is armored" and let me go. I've become a raven... (I've never played an armored core game in my life)
I think AC6 is going to grab the interesting/fun mechanics from previous titles and polish them a bit more. Kinda like how Elden Ring took some of the mechanics from previous soulsborn titles. Like a refinement of everything that came before.
Great discussions overall! Appreciated Ratatoskr having some balanced insights on the AC series. Can’t tell you how hard that is to find from people who aren’t into the games. A few notes: 3:44 - I feel this a bit of simplification of a much more complicated subject. Certainly there is merit to the argument that people disliked 4th simply because it was different, but an important point to keep in mind is that it also MASSIVELY changed Armored Core as it was. AC1 to AC3 was a linear progress of design and mechanics, a clear evolution. 4/FA made huge changes to the series, removing mechanics that had been staples to the series (heat, normal boosting, lock-on, etc.) and added new mechanics and features that felt like they were either sidestepping or ignoring what AC had been up till that point. There’s also the issue that this change had ripple effects in the community. There’s definitely a fair number of folks from the “old” scene who’d point to this era of Armored Core as being the thing that resulted in the break up of the Armored Core community at large and desolation that we had even into the V/VD era. TLDR: It’s not just about the speed, but the changes that come with that speed. 10:15 - Clarification here: Heat mechanics have been around since AC2. With Nexus, heat mechanics were ramped up to be INCREDIBLY unforgiving. Instead of building heat when getting shot at or using OB, using boosters at all cause heat to rise. Also it was easier to overheat and take damage when overheated. This along with the speed nerf and removal of OP-I/H+ is probably one of the biggest reasons why NX gets so much hate. 14:40 - This is probably one of my biggest complaints about the criticism that 5th Gen gets. This game is not that slow. V/VD’s framework is based on 4th gen and gives you the most movement options of any game. It is a hell of a lot fast than 3 or LR both in terms of overall. It’s always been a myth that the community (particularly 4th gen) has propagated since the start. Looks like ACLore pointed this out as well at 40:00. 14:57: *SPOILERS* - there is one NEXT as the final boss of Verdict Day 15:10 - Armored Core V was not in the same timeline as 4/FA, but was retconned in with Armored Core: Verdict Day and the accompanying art/lore books that were produced. You see references/glimpses throughout mission, and then see one massive unmistakable reference in the final mission of VD. 17:40 - So way back before the MP component became the main draw, the original vision for Armored Core V (then known as Armored Core 5) was a dedicated singleplayer with longer missions and objectives. Most people forget about this because it’s been so long. 18:57 - I don’t think this quite accurate. KE and TE are basically Kinetic and Energy weapons from older games. CE is basically missiles/explosive which was just grouped in with Kinetic in older games. 19:35 - In theory, this is how the three defense systems are supposed to work. In practice (an in terms of how it was actually implemented the game), it is not. Weapons can absolutely work even if an enemy has lots of defense in one area (example Shotguns, Autocannons), and you cannot get a perfectly balanced defense with any AC in this game. As such, there are design trends and players are able to build around that, which means situations where you will come up against another AC that is completely impervious to your weapons is basically impossible. There are also hidden mechanics which allows for more diverse playstyles and prevents ACs from being too comfortable with just making certain defense thresholds. This is another point of misinformation that’s used constantly against 5th gen. 20:45 - The reason for this is that 1) people act like they’ll die if they don’t talk about how much 5th Gen sucks every 5 minutes and 2) most of the 5th Gen community got sick of it and either don’t hang out in the usual spots or chose not to stick around. I think most of the remaining 5th gen players are in the AC Discord or just sort of in the void. People constantly shitting on the game and constantly giving misinformation also didn’t help as well. 25:49 - Ratatoskr hit it spot on 37:43 - This is more important now then ever before. More Armored Core is better, regardless of gen. Any Armored Core is good, and always better than no Armored Core.
Really glad to hear you enjoyed AC3, as the 3rd gen was by far my favourite. I'm surprised to hear that people dropped off with Last Raven as I remember everyone on the AC focused forums back then generally liked it a lot. I would also like to contest ACL's assertion that heat management was still a problem in LR. While yes, Nexus did go overboard with the mechanic, LR reigned it in significantly and so long as you were mindful of things like booster heat, generator calorific value, and frame cooling while designing ACs, as well as avoiding regular boosting while charging overboost during gameplay, it was practically a non-issue 90% of the time. If it saves you the headache, slapping on Vulture2 boosters, G91 generator, and Ananda radiator (almost always best radiator choice) is a perfectly balanced internals option for nearly any AC. There are of course many other viable boost/gen/rad combos with different niches to fill, so don't be afraid to experiment. tbh it's kinda wild that I still know Last Raven AC design meta like the back of my hand despite not having played the game in over a decade.
There was a lot of interesting stuff that they talked about. How Rata felt about AC3 compared to 4 was an insight that I think I agree with, even if it doesn't personally affect my enjoyment to the same degree. AC4 is just so easy; I mean, I was able to beat the game (on normal) with each of the starting AC's and had little trouble outside of a couple missions. Even 4A I could beat the game with a starting AC, but honestly that's because of how insane the swords are. A big reason why I think that gen 4 felt so easy, is because other AC games had you start with old and cheap equipment that you ideally would switch out sooner than later-- not that there are generally objective improvements in that regard, but it gets close at times. 4 and 4A are the only ones I can think of that let you start off with a fully kitted out mech. With parts that you may actually aim to buy given that you did get the budget AC of the other games to start. Not that it would change a ton, because almost any reasonably made build can get you to hard mode with little effort. Honestly, it may not be the worst starting place for a newcomer solely by the fact that you don't need to pay attention to any of the detailed info apart from weight and energy (maybe stabilizers, but you can just use the auto selection and call it a day). But personally, and I know Rata has little interest in it, hard mode is where it's at. It doesn't simply increase enemy stats, rather it restructures most of the missions. It may be as simple as having to fight a second surprise AC, but along with extra dialogue it's cool to see. I hope when it comes to 4A he does at least just one mission on hard to see how it changes; it doesn't make you play the whole game like that either. The game is so easy normally that you beat the game for hard mode. Builds matter more, but like with all AC games making a generalist build is doable for most of it anyways. I was surprised at how much more he loved AC3 than 4, but hearing him explain it makes perfect sense. I didn't think about it much before, but having a spotlight shown on the differences like that... I agree in what he said. From the lore, to the difficulty and reliance on actual mech building. Lore, that you don't have to go out of your way to see anyways. Not that any AC game, gen 3 included, got to what I want from the lore as a whole, but I still liked it for what it was. I wish we could've seen Rata play at least a little of 3, because the shift to him enjoying it so much more, as he said, would have been nice to see, but I'm just happy that he's having fun with it. I love all AC games in their own ways. They each have problems, but they each have appeals, even gameplay specifically. So I also have no idea what I want from AC6. I've been anticipating the gameplay reveal so much due in part because I don't know what to expect, but also because I feel like they could do anything and I'd love it-- _"but what if they don't?",_ I can't help but wonder, but I have faith in them right now. I really enjoyed the podcast; as I always say, I'm just happy that people are talking about the series at all. I've been replaying all of the games, and watching some ArmoredCoreLore videos here and there in preparation for AC6, even if it's not gonna release for awhile. So thank you Rata for having him on and talking about the games, it's been a treat! One quick thing, which they didn't touch on, I hope that painting AC's and emblems gets improved. It was pretty good in 5 compared to the games before, but I want them to push it more. And I hope that they have an improved way to make them. emblem editing works like Forza's does in essence, which works well, but boy do I wish I could hand-draw my own in someway. Even if it was simple mouse-functionality, which interestingly enough at least one AC game (probably others as well) has mouse support, but it's bad. Cool that it's there, though. And please keep the same style of music, From. Gen 4 and 5 had peak AC music imo, but gens 1, 2, and 3 each had great music too. Sorry for the wall of text, bye! Also, heat was introduced in AC2 :)
When people say that the 4th generation is too easy, I think they miss the point of how utterly dominant Nexts are as war machines from a lore perspective. Nexts are the pinnacle of AC technology, and if they were made as weak as pre 4th gen and 5th gen ACs, then they aren't Nexts anymore. A problem with the 4th gen is that From Soft failed to make missions that properly showcased the power of Nexts outside of gimmicky arms forts fights. In the lore, Nexts were instrumental in bringing down the previous world order, and that meant fighting the huge mechanized armies of the world powers. But instead, the missions we get in AC4 and FA are nothing more than standard AC missions we all saw from previous games, but now we're piloting super ACs. As a result, we often got missions that can be completed as little as 30 seconds.
i think that the customization in gen 4 is fantastic, it's just that you try to make a stronger mech for the sake of pushing the limits of what you can create, not because the games forces you to improve your ac
@@95onimusha What made the 4th gen games too easy are super ACs (Nexts) and hardware limitations of the 7th console generation. From Soft can't make Nexts weak because of lore, and they can't make missions that are actually appropriate for the use of Nexts (fighting a country's military) because of the weak PS3 and Xbox.
My first AC game was AC2. I rented it a ton from Hollywood Video. I played AA, 3, Silent Line, Last Raven, 4, 4A and 5. I can say for certain that 3 and Silent Line would be perfect 10/10 games if they had utilized the control sticks for the camera rather than the old button layout. The story, the deep lore, the visuals, the customization, music, sound design, weapon balance were all the pinnacle of what Armored Core should be. Last Raven was awesome but if you didn't have a Nexus save to migrate, you were SOL. Controls were finally good. LR isn't so bad if you know what you're doing. Newbies beware or Git Gud. 4 and 4A were my most played. Double S ranked both games. They were both really easy4A being even easier than 4. Played MP extensively. 4A was just so fast that it was stupid. It turned into who could mash RT the fastest. I liked the ideas in 5, building jumping, scanner probes. Didn't like Scan Mode or the mech designs all that much. Removal of back weapons was also no good. It all just felt sort of off to me. I just found myself wishing it was more like Gen 3. If it is some combo of Gen 3 and 4 I can see a lot of potential. Gen 5 had interesting ideas but nothing that I can say were really stood out amongst the rest of the games in the series. Gonna play it regardless but I'll save my hype. Playing the old games is enough for me if this one isn't to my liking.
I finally got around to getting LR working on emulator. It's been pretty frustrating so far, you comment has made me realize that the harder missions have been meant for converted saves, since other missions are way, way easier. I feel like the balance is way off on the spacing though. What is the point of a sniper rifle or overboost when all the arena stages are so small you can't even outrange a handgun if your enemy parks in the middle of the stage and turns to face you? And enemies are way more mobile than I remember. Trying to use aforementioned sniper rifles, weapons marked as 'high velocity', missiles described as having superior homing... and middle and even heavyweight mechs are dodging all of this effortlessly, not to mention being a giant pain to lock on to when they move so fast at such close ranges. I struggled like crazy until I threw two handguns on and now enemy AC's just overheat and stand there while I melt them. I know I'm rusty but I doubt I'm THAT rusty, I used to be quite good in the 2nd and 3rd gen games, I even beat all the hardest missions and enemies in them with blade only builds for fun.
I find it really comedic that the armored core lore channel's favorite game is one of the few AC games that has no lore connected to any of the other games
I'm in the side of PSX and PS2 era Armored Core, That era strategies your AC Energy Consumption, Build Lightweight , Heavy or Middleweight whether You want to be a Fast CQC AC or a Heavy Fire Power Missile will Rain while I shoot Energy Weapon and Grenade Launcher at the Target AC. PS3 AC 4 + 4Answer Generation, HUMAN+ WITH MULTIPLE STEROIDS.
The singular brick wall I had when I first started playing AC years ago was the mission "Destroy unidentified AC" in Another Age. You're promised backup from 2 high ranked ravens and when you get there, both have already been destroyed. You are told that the AC is an older model and then are introduced to music that lives in many AC player's nightmares...."NINE". I did every legitimate method, every cheeseball strat, and finally...I got lucky with a all grenade tank build...something very different from the lightweight I'd been using since the beginning of the game.
I watched and thoroughly enjoyed Ratatoskrs live steams for AC4. I feel like the appreciation of AC4 and FA come with hard mode. I've always viewed normal mode to just be a tutorial. This may sound like gatekeeping but I feel that the game doesn't start till hard mode where the challenge comes into play. In hard mode the missions change significantly and make for the most memorable moments. His views on AC4 are valid for the content he has seen, but it comes off as premature to the vocal fans of the AC4/FA. My only comparison that I can think of is like doing an Elden Ring review and stopping right before encountering Margit to then say yes this is the Elden Ring experience.
The lack of flying, the floaty movement, and the bloody bloom effects on everything made my eyes bleed. I couldn't play ACV for long without getting sick due to the constant flashing lights and changes in brightness. Oh, and the horrible story. I was given 0 reason to care about anything or anyone by the end of ACV and I had no idea if anything I did mattered. I felt like I was a random NPC in another person's story rather than a Raven making my way through the world.
I'm on the team that 4 and 5 are connected, on account of: a) something akin to Line Ark in one map b)Kitasaki Junction is there too kinda c)Motherwill d) N-WGIX/v
AC4 sounds like it was a learning experience for Miyazaki, about how to obscure the lore in the best way, how best to balance the importance of build with just letting players get on with playing etc.
The problem with 4 is that all the mechs became essentially the same thing, super fast wispy glass cannons. I loved that 1/2/3 had more range and you could make a literal tank on treads with the added benefit of a bigger weapon loadout or you could opt for a super low weight fast boost with one or two weapons for that other end of the spectrum. I loved theorycrafting and having literal arms races with my buddies in which we would try to out design philosophy eachother with different extremes. I remember making crazy shit like an explosives only AC or a super light and fast melee only AC that was super hard to pilot but satisfying to pull off, a fucking tank tread mech that had the maximum possible firepower that became a slow moving mobile fortress of doom, it goes on and on. In 4 you have varying degrees of sonic the hedgehog and that's not necessarily wrong but if that's either all you have or the only thing viable then it gets old rather quickly.
Well, they aren't significant increases, but there is a bit of an increase over time. But a lot of it is also fluidity and better framerates, not to mention overboost being a thing.
technically AC 2nd gen was the slowest of the older AC titles I think this is to compensate the fact Overboost exists but the speed was hightened a bit in 3rd gen to be on nearly par on 1st gen
Usually when people say they like Gen 4 best they mean For Answer since it fixed most of what AC4 lacked and added awesome things like Arms Forts and the story is well done.
Theres a bit in last raven where going into the info files can potentially warn you about a ambush. This feels similar to what you see in future souls games
Absolutely. Your dogfight (or I guess for 5th gen, Brawling) skills were still important, but in a departure from the sleek ac4 gameplay pilot skill was way more than mech control..being small and vulnerable meant taking environment, your own weaknesses, and scanning enemy weaknesses as well. From my experience (mostly single player I wasn't rlly around for the MP) it was trial and error and learning what loadout could most efficiently handle every variable of the mission.
Crazy thing is, I lived my Gundam fantasy in the 3rd and 5th gen games. These games allowed you to feel like a mech pilot, 4th gen has you zipping around like you're a fighter jet. I want to play as a mech pilot, not as a mech... If that makes any sense.
@@armoredcorelore arguably 4th gen is more Gundam 00 type of Gundam which now makes it more hilarious now that Wataru Inata has supplied Witch from Mercury mecha designs (Peil Technologies to be precise), a Gundam series that is probably heavily lifting armored core concepts Benerit Group = the League of Corporations there are no clear definitions on what is a country = side effect of the national dismantlement war each character is sponsored by a company under the Benerit group umbrella = typical corpo sponsorship of Ravens and LYNX disputes are settle by duels some characters may live and die from these duels = pretty much the Arenas in a nutshell now go look at the gunpla of Zowort Heavy and tell me... what it is and why its earily familiar
AC4 is more like Another Century which is actually a game that has many Gundam series along with other mechs, one of the last Another Century games has (9)ball as an enemy, I'm not sure if you can play as him. Another Century ps2 is also a very good series but a lot more aerial and fast. That's the reason i didn't like AC4.
@@Phantom_Zer0 you can only use Seraph for 1 unique mission but you can hack the game since the code logic is there, its literally "built" to be the perfect Gundam destroyer good thing the AI piloting it was lightly scuffed and can not use its full arsenal full arsenal includes, Primal Armor, Exceed Orbits 8-10 units, macross multi missile, Mirage Coloid (can't lock on what you can't see), Mega Beam Launcher, Moonlight gimmick, arm vulcans all of these weapons at your finger tips for 1 mission kill 900 enemies basically put take the Freedom Gundam give it the ability to go invisible, give it a Psychoframe shield, and super packs from Macross and swords that can emit projectiles oh it also has access to Quick boost in a way
My only issue with 4 was that it turned the skill and mech specialization i was most skilled at and they made it automatic I already played high-speed, near-infinite flying mechs. That, and i loved the Large Missile in Nine-Breaker.
@@dragonandavatarfan8865 Armored Core 1-3. It took knowing what every stat actually did and choosing the parts specifically geared for speed and flight.
I like the idea of actually having a pilot avatar that is customizable from like scavenger outfit/suit to pilot suits from companies and possibly all the way to plugsuits like from Evangelion for ester egg or something like that.
Armored Core 4 has very unique circumstances about you, the player/main character. In other AC games you're a lowly mercenary starting as nobody and somehow tangled with corporations shenanigans. However in AC4, all NEXT pilots ("Lynx") are special, because only few humans can be compatible with the system NEXT run on (called AMS I think). Your character is still a mercenary in AC4, but being a valuable asset you have full backing of your colony. My assumption is that Fiona (your operator) and her uncle who ran the colony do everything for you, from correspondences to negotiating contracts. So you're not being a lone mercenary that has to manage everything and piece every information by yourself like in other games. I understand that this may feel strange to some people, and in For Answer you're back being a lone merc again as NEXTs were no longer considered special. But I kinda like this unique vibe of AC4.
I also really loved the dynamic that your pilot had with Fiona and her uncle, He was being used in order to save Anatolia and build their wealth. Although ultimately leaving with Fiona after what happened at the end with O-Brien to join line ark as their ace in the hole.
1. must retain the full customization like the old AC, like need proper head for radar & stuffs 2. faster than 3 just a bit with limitation no spammable overbooster or will overheat faster/drain energy much faster 3. multiple endings like last raven 4. good ol' AC Hud not like 4 or 5 or just make it changeable option 5. story dlc, secret parts dlc 6. 1v1 & 3v3 rank cross-platform pvp, guild & stuffs like ladder with unique part rewards seasonal for competitiveness/longevity after finishing the campaign 7. next gen graphics
It's only one NEXT though, even then it is like an amalgam of different ones from 4. The thing really seal the deal is that there is a reconstruction on Spirit of Motherwill that you can raid on in multiplayer and there is a map that has the Cradle wreckage in the background.
@@lesslighter Exusia is very visibly based on the tech used to create NEXTs though. Unlike every other unit in the game, it visibly emits Kojima particles in the air. Also the ORCA banners everywhere make it pretty clear that V and Verdict Day are indeed in the same universe as 4 and 4A.
@@Simon-fc9hg when I fought Exusia its visibly not based on a NEXT type of technology... maybe Pulverizer or IBIS but thats pushing it its too "alien" to be considered a basis for NEXT frame maybe Seraph? but thats wayy way pushing it
It’s a shame because all the AC games did a fantastic job of world building through key game moments and background elements, arena pilot bios, mail, Last Raven had a literal INFORMATION SECTION that told you about everything in an encyclopedic catalogue of everything including enemies/parts/companies. Then 4 happened and it was just “welcome to robot anime here’s the deal, uhhhhh go fight something and figure it out”.
I really like both 4 answer and verdict day. I want the many parts from 4a, and armor system from 4a, but the combat speed and controls from 5V. My major complaint with 5V is not its gameplay its the multiplayer focus. If it wasn't so focused on multiplayer I think it would be an amazing game. But it was let down by that focus. Also 5 verdict dayis one of the few games you can still buy digitally
@@denisn8336 It's not that Verdict Day is slow, it's that it has a much wider scale of speed than Gen 4 had. While Gen V won't get Gen 4 speeds, I can assure you that Verdict Day allows you to get close to what Gen 4 offers.
@@denisn8336 slow? it's faster than any ac except 4 and fA. Did you ever checked how good players play pvp in vd? its fast enough (though obv not as fast as 4 th gen).
I like to play my AC at a cinematic 15 fps, just like we did in the glory days of the "PSX" as we called it. Really helped you savor every frame. None of these ridiculous dual stick controls. We looked up/down with L2/R2 like real men. No OB, no silly primal armor, no dropping your weapons like a soy boy. Nowadays if you look at an ACs left hand you're more likely to find an asthma puffer or soy latte. Back then you either carried your LS99 Moonlight in your left hand (the most gentlemanly among weapons) or you crawled along the ground like a worm. Kings among men were we who linked our PSXs with the link cable and played on two big boxy TVs, just as the good Lord intended. That being said, thank God in heaven that AC6 will finally be on PC. After all, I never thought we'd see the day we could unbind the controls and frame limit back down to 15 FPS. Technology sure is amazing. What a time to be alive
First time watching your channel especially ACL brought me here (through TH-cam Feed/Algorithm). I think it's better in AC6 if they include an "Info Menu" section (Last Raven had similar in-game menu section of lores where you can read it if I correctly remember) where you can read all lore in-game information. I enjoyed the fair exchange of opinions/ideas between you and ACL.
I find Ratatoskr's comparison of AC3 and AC4 very interesting...because it's pretty much the complete opposite of my experience. As much as I liked AC3, I eventually had to put it down because I got so. Damn. Tired. of using just missiles in every mission. I'd throw myself at a mission I was struggling with over and over, and then come in with a load of explosive ordinance and clear no problem. Again and again and again, missiles were just the correct answer, and I just got tired of it. AC4? I do kind of understand where he's talking about the easiness of it, because I'd usually complete a mission with whatever my loadout was, but after each mission I'd me right back into the shop, scrolling through the new parts, selling everything but my laser blade, and trying out EVERYTHING, narrowing in further and further on a build that felt just right. In AC4, my NEXT was -mine-, unlike in AC3 where I just built whatever would get me through the mission and I didn't really care about my particular AC. I didn't really want my dumpy missile platform, but it was what worked and what got me progressing. EDIT: Also, I just really, really love the high speed combat of AC4. I'm constantly looking for games that are like that, and they're surprisingly hard to find.
I gotta disagree about V. it wasn't just a multiplayer game, there's a full fledged armored core game in there. aside from the main missions there's still like ~50 side missions which have several multi-missions storylines of their own
Yeah some games I've seen the combat almost resembles Ace Combat with how fast and distant the fights were...I would prefer a slower more up close action.
Also the spirit of motherwill (if you meant the cradle) aswell as the final boss of VD being a rebuilt white glint (confirmed to be a NEXT due to the primal armor, kojima radiation it spews out and of course, the assault armor)
he forgot nine breaker - the armored core boot camp or training school, one that you should try out before doing last raven. moreover, it's the game for pilots compared to formula front which is the game for engineers. silent line also introduced the AI system which was expanded further in formula front, where your AI AC adapts to how you pilot your mech.
This guy is a great guest and consistently had interesting answers to questions. Love the podcast. It is so adaptive and honestly Ratatoskr I think you found a niche with your changing gaming interests and ideas. I think there are enough people who roughly match up with Outward->MH? Didn’t watch at the time, also ds3 lore->ER hype -> ER in-depth lore -> MHRise -> Rediscovering ER -> AC Hype/discovering for DS players that you don’t even have to worry about splitting your audience. People like these games because they are engaging and creative in similar ways.
btw after Miyazaki joined the world building in these games became better exponentially, especially with 4 and 4A (even if the story isn't as well executed as the previous games, i said world building)
I just want FromSoft to acknowledge at least insert 1 special npc and call him The Raven and give him a Normal but surprises you with how godlike he is with his handling as like a nod or a passing of torch to the new era of mechs
Gen 1 - Introduction Gen 2 - Overboost, Inside Parts Gen 3 - Exceed Orbit Cores, Expansion Of Offhand Weapons, Shields, Extension Parts Gen 4 - Primal Armor, Assault Armor, Quick Boosting, Vanguard Overboost, Arms Forts (essentially 'giant MT') Gen 5 - Removed Flight, Removed Back Weapons, Weapon Swapping Arms, Introduced More PvP Focused Content While I do feel *For Answer* made the pace of combat 'too fast' I greatly disliked V which essentially threw out the baby with the bath water. Gen 3 Pace with some Gen 4 tech (quick-boosts but not infinitely spammable) would be the goldilocks' zone.
As a longtime fan of Armored Core having 100% all the games and some multi-player, I completely agree with pretty much everything said here. Also, having both classic ACs and later on nexts in the same game would be a master stroke. They could even make arena/multi-player category based which would be pretty awesome.
Each generation has something it did well. The overall pacing in 3 was very good, and forced you to think and change things up constantly and to build for all sorts of challenges. 4 was top notch for customization, I liked being able to go dual blades, or a rifle and a minigun, or a sniper and a machinegun, or anything I wanted. 5 had sniping down to an art, and having a dedicated reticle and a boost charge was really nice. But each game had its problems. 3 still had trigger aim untill Nexus/LR, and then Heat and parts damage soured some people something fierce. 4 was mostly fine, but 4a was very fast, and some battles were a huge dificulty spike. V/VD very much felt clunky, but also made laser blades alot tougher to even use in comparison to even 3rd gen. Theres ups and downs to each, and I really cannot wait to see how they bring it all together like they did with Souls for Elden Ring
here are my hot takes in AC4 was the answer for Konami ZoTE people wanted "high speed" mecha From Soft Answer gave them ZoTE ACV doesnt have mail system its literally absent even to verdict day
I reckon I'll put my thoughts in here then. I have played Armored Core from the very first one. I love them all and there are things I don't like about each one. ACV and Vday are my least favorite but mainly because it didn't seem like ACs that I was mainly piloting. Like someone ( @Ayu Skyly ) else said it take inspiration from Chrome Hounds (and I even told that to my friends that didn't play Chrome Hounds). It's like the 5th generation was more of a mix of AC and CH. I enjoyed Chrome Hounds a lot back in the day as well. I loved AC4 & 4A because it was fresh and exciting and just fun. I even challenged myself to be a highspeed blade AC and yes you can half your time in missions and obliterate all gun wielding ACs with dual blades and even "Go swimming" on them. You could make your AC go so fast that the net code wouldn't be able to keep up and it looked like you was teleporting and the enemy player wouldn't know what hit them. I miss and love both AC2 and AC3 genres. I spent so much time on them and I loved their stories the most. I adore the AC designs the most and weapon designs. What I would love to see from AC6.... More designs, equipment, options weapons, cores from AC2 and AC3. A refined but tuned down gameplay of AC4 so you can't make an OP blader AC but have the quick and smoother gameplay but to where you feel heavier AND the auto flight over water because for some reason my mech isn't water proof lol. I would love to see co-op and multiplayer similar to AC5, because I like playing with my friends and squad. As for the story telling. I do miss the emails and I want more cutscenes but I also want something that the Armored Core series has never done in game. I want to have faces show up for when someone is talking to you on comms/cutscenes because I want to feel more involved with those characters other than a name and voice. Make me feel like there is more to this world than just the mechs (even if that is the world) but to see facial expressions that can help you understand what those people are not only conveying through voice.... That is the thoughts of an old Raven that is not divided by genres and loves all the AC games in their own way. P.S. Nineball should make an appearance as a fun memory because Hustler 1 is awesome!
Ironically, many players agree with Maximilian's claim that the nobles return to the ground, but they themselves like to fly NEXT in the air and complain that ACV can only stay on the ground. 13:43In fact, the Gundam00's technical settings are somewhat similar to AC4. These include GN particles/Kojima particles, Union's MS/ACfA's lightweight AC, and Human Reform League's Tieren/Aldra' SOLDNER-G8
21:50 I massively agree. However I was thinking along the lines of NEXTs being massively expensive to operate, all the way so that the pay of the mission may not even cover the opperating costs. Making it into a numbers game of "is it worth it to bring out the big guns or can I scratch by with just an AC". Like the final boss of ACVD an AC fighting a NEXT. Fighting the best thing with junker in comparison. Of course as you get further in the pays will increase and opperating the NEXT more often becomes more pheaseable. But the raw reward difference of doing that same mission in the much cheaper AC would be tremendous. Risk vs Reward.
I can't say much what it is like in other AC games since I have only played AC Phantasma, AC Formula Front and AC Last Raven. I think Chromehounds is the game where they tested first and a community that liked it formulated and then another game maker made a similar game to Chromehounds. So Chromehounds is like a test for AC 4 and AC For Answer that is why there is a nice destructible environment that stays which means the players can say there's a proof of the destruction and events that just happened whether it is a duel or pvps. But since AC4+ is barren and feels lonely or empty, they added buildings in AC V+ or places where one can hide but it lacked the aerial speed which I think is like the dream to desire from a mech (plus, movement of the circle aim area feels hard to observe like it can only move L/R or U/D one at a time and not diagonal). Multiplayer is always a nice thing because back then when I can't play ps2 ACs, I'm envious of people who can join tournaments (even though I think it is locally organized and in a different country like US) and they go into duels with their overboosts. AC V+ added a new layer of maybe nice features that have tactical feel to battles like scan mode and an operator that is like the theme in Code Geass anime. AC V+ also got good animations, ultimate weapons, etc. They should just mix the nice things from previous ACs like persisting environmental destruction, good duel + multiplayer from AC V+, AC For Answer aerial dance speed, battlefields with structures around, a square or rectangle aim (I think some people don't like the way you need to aim in AC4+ but maybe they can improve it), complexity + betrayals + campaign duels + needing to rely on gravity to pull you down to dodge + a useful running / jumping dodge capabilities incorporated so there is a balance for aerial dodge from pre AC4 games (though I don't mind if they only put more aerial dodges like in For Answer). Also, iirc, older AC games don't have difficulty settings (?). They should use what they think is best. Btw, AC Formula Front also got nice vibes (I played both JP version where battles are automatic and US version where the player can manually control the AC). The only time I needed a guide, is when I want to unlock a hidden weapon that must be fetched while in the middle of a mission battle in pre AC4 games.
I hope that we can get a re-release collection of all the classic AC games, id bet anything it would help sew together the parts of the fanbase fractured by the generation they played first/most. The fact that we haven't yet makes me fear that the source code is lost or something.
I like all of the AC game's. I liked how 4 and 4A went and it felt like a natural progression to be honest. But AC 5 was where the only online issue popped its head in to say hello. It could have worked if they thought it out a little bit more but it just fell flat. I didn't care that they reduced the ACs flying or movement speed's at all and the ACs were beautiful.
I hope we don't have damage types playing a big role in AC6, because the implementation of this type of rock/paper/scissors mechanic is almost always sloppy and artificial and rarely ever explained with in-game lore (or in games like Dark Should it plays a minimal role and is mostly for flavor, except maybe for the stone skinned enemies requiring blunt damage, which is logical) I'd rather it comes naturally through other game mechanics, like fast flying enemies requiring some rapid firing weapons or an anti-air weaponry with lock-on capabilities, heavily armored enemies require mines or armor piercing heavy weaponry, etc etc.. I hope that's what we get rather than blue damage beats red mech, red damage beats green mech, and green damage beats blue mech which is almost always how this kind of mechanic is lazily implemented.
I am 15 seconds into this video and I paused just to state that any criticism in ac4a will result in a 1v1 challenge issued to the offender, where upon I choose the lightest mech possible and quick boost until the heat death of the universe.
4A is just a spam fest of Quick Boost Cancelling and 2nd/3rd Stage Quick Boost. Last Raven is the perfect balance of speed, more weapons to choose, and more tactics to choose EO, OB. If we're going to 1v1 in 4A, remove the auto lock on and auto boost in the options. Gen1-3 it's a skill to master boost hopping (auto boost in 4A). After we 1v1 on 4A Reg 1.20, let's 1v1 on Last Raven :)
@@inixi8ocelot they each have their particular things to master. I just found the mastery of 4a's mechanics far more liberating than 3's. Don't get me wrong, I love 3 and it's iterations. But with 3 I feel like I'm working out ways to move better in shackles. Whereas in 4a, the shackles are gone and I'm working out ways to actually move with some measure of control. There's a huge difference between a spam booster and someone using quick boost with any measure of purpose to their movement. Much the same as spam rolling vs strategic rolling in Souls.
@@Rave.- Of course I know spamming will get you killed just like in Souls Games, and in Fighting games, Ex: spamming Eddie's sweeps, will get you low parried and wall carry juggles to death. 4A feels like an arcade game and not a mech sim anymore in terms of difficulty. No more heat management, you can't drown into the ocean, they removed the look camera smoothing FCS lock box and changed it to a full screen auto facing lock on. Sound in some weapons needs more oomph like the grenade launcher from the original hits like a truck and you can feel it. The removal of sword wave mechanics. It was so cool how each blade had a different effect too. Like there was one that did a really wide wave that split into 3, or the original sword wave of the Moonlight blade from Project Phantasma that explodes like a mini Big Bang explosion of blue stars (Elden Ring Dark Moon Blade projectile has this effect as well). Quick Turn is not a universal mobility and only accessible thru side extensions. Basically, 4A added Human Plus features on all mechs. I want it to be optional parts, so it's not too OP.
I love that you focus your channel on each new thing your interested in, and having new guests on your podcast that are knowledgeable about those games
Its hard for me to believe that AC4 is not the natural evolution of AC3. I love them in their own ways and still play both. I think I would like to see another Armored Core without Nexts but not the path that 5 took.
Ac4 controls just gave so much more agency to me as a player. I'm not sure I can go back to ac without it. I bought ac5 when it came out and I played about 10 minutes of it before never playing it again. You can't go from ultimate freedom to that much limitation in 1 game progression.
@@Rave.- I think a 3.5 would still be a good amount of freedom for me as long as there are fast lights and tough heavies. Dont get mad at the light boys for being hard to hit when they are always 2-3 grenades away from death.
A lot of this falls to something that is common in many genres, in the FGC we call it "New game bad, old game good". People like the shit that they played as kids or teens and often look at the new version as a lesser version. Sometimes it's based on actual aspects of the game, sometimes it's just a feeling, but it's almost always biased based on personal nostalgia.
Armored Core Last Raven is the reason why Armored Core 4 exists the way they are. Armored Core has always been about overcoming overwhelming odds, experimentation, trial and error. This has been From Software core philosophy in every game. But since Last Raven really whooped a lot of people's backs, they need to make changes to the game. People were really mad about how Last Raven is totally unfair and off the rails when it comes to punishing you in AC to AC fights, even the first mission was a noob trap so you get stuck there fighting a decked out AC while you're in a starter one. Gamers now tend to buy games that they can GET to the ending like a movie with the good stuff (blame COD4). They wanted the protagonist spectacle, they wanted to be the chosen ones, with classic movie flick writings and the Japanese devs are taking notice. (Ace Combat Assault Horizon, Front Mission Evolved, etc). In addiciton ZOE and most of the japanese mecha games out there was favoring more speed type gameplay. For me Armored Core 1 through Last Raven has always been this middleground of functional, but essentially Japanese design that simply give it's own charm. As if, you hand out a Mechwarrior game project to Itano and From, and this is what they come out with. But Armored Core 4 really did tone down the difficulty (and still get criticisms of Marche Au Supplice being too hard for the new players of Xbox360/PS3), they gave leeway with even better energy regen in ACFA that simply just turn off the older gen players. It was really easy, there is no way you can make a bad build (as long as its not tank). Remind you, the game was released, during a time period where ZOE seems to not have any sign of getting any sequel, so most of the ZOE fans run towards this game instead. This was released during an era, where easy games was praised and it was all about the rave reviews. Easy games are "fun", you deserve power fantasy, kick back and enjoy your day with gaming being a demigod mecha of death. There was nothing wrong asking a "sequel" to give you even MORE power fantasy, because for the majority of gaming sphere of 2010s, sequels equals stronger, better, faster. So when ACV hits, where you get strip down into Chromehounds type scenarios, you are essentially smaller with less guns (no back weapons), it was really a killjoy. A sequel of a game that "downgrades" your equipments, your mech, it really felt wrong for ACFA fans, and especially for people who started with it. And to be honest, there is zero lore of triangle relationship struggle as you see in previous game. The lore has zero writing, you don't even get a name as a pilot, you are referred literally as Mercenary (in AC1-LR you are called Ravens, in AC4/ACFA you are called LYNX). IMO, ACV singleplayer was seriously lacking, but ACVD is actually pretty enjoyable, and unique for its time. This "dark" era, casted by its own playerbase will persist throughout the Fromsoft released game, leading up to Dark Souls 1. It wasn't until Dark Souls 1 released on PC, where people start to valor hard on difficult videogames. DO note they did release Demon's Souls right after ACFA, and people do get mad about that game being too hard (except for some fringe videogame community, where people who cleared the game gets praises for toughing it out). As these fringe communities grow, and go out into social media, get some friends, and they start to instill the mentality of loving hard games into the general public. Now Dark Souls 1 gets pretty popular on PC (because Demons Souls was a PS3 exclusive, so they too wanted to get the "I beat a hard game medal"), and suddenly "Git Gud" wasn't toxic, it was an honrable war cry in internet forums. Now people keep wanting hard games, and From just keep feeding them on what they do best, because suddenly people clicked with it. Being good at hard games gets you internet points and cats. No more people are willing to openly admit that hard games was unenjoyable for them, lest they will get mocked on forums. So now we are back at we came from with very different expectations. It's probably the trickiest game to pull off, understandably when it comes to difficulty, design and preferences. The era of praising hard games. The era where people thirst for challenge. The era where beauty is min maxing your mech/characters. The soulsbourne crowd wants hard games. They wanted challenge. They wanted weight in their movements. Deep lore and personal connections to the pilots. The PS1 era crowd wants it back to where it is. Filler missions, some mission that will be "that mission" that gets you filtered for WEEKS, unfair missions 1v2 AC scenarions, and half the game is basically running CATIA software and CFD to check all your stats are in the good side before missions. The ACFA era players wants the power fantasy, infinite flying, infinite boosting, laser blades. You are the best because you are in the best mech, in the best aesthetics. The ACV era fans, well, they just want a fleshed out single player. Also ACV has the best rewarding feeling of landing melee hit. Will a sequel check all those boxes? Doubtly so. Will I play it? Definitely. Will I complain about it? Absolutely not. i am personally an ACVD fan. The movement are beautiful, you can drift, Reverse Joints serves a purpose, and Tanks are scary.
@@procow2274 true. The game doesn't give you right outta gate the best generators, or some of the best mobility parts starting out. You are meant to get royally screwed on FIRST MISSION. As if the devs and the lore works AGAINST you. Last Raven story feels like everyone is just trying to survive and make do (like you), but now everyone is pointing their guns on each other, while on the main stage, both Evangel and Jack O insists on their egos as if they're the dominants. You're nothing but just another fodder in this madness arms war. But, if indeed you decided going against POWER, stacked odds, and egotistical maniacs, then yes, your SKILLS are tested as a pilot. that what makes LR is just so damn good.
All I want is better controls.. Armored Core controls is the biggest reason why we have few players in the AC franchise. (Other than the console only release) I wanna fight more people!
One thing is I hope there's some semblance of "corpos that have very specific design philosophies" when it comes to their mech choice and style. Borderlands did something like that and made every gun feel like it was made by the specific corporations. Like make each mech feel like "Omer Labs made this" or "This is a GA machine" just by looking at it, you know who made what. Brand identity should be the strongest in this game, considering we are getting the most HD AC game so far.
not sure if this channel just has a larger amount of people that prefer the non-ac4 games, but i think it says a lot that ac4a has had the most active playerbase throughout these years of silence, as well as a very vocal fanbase. I think also realistically it will follow this games fairly closely in gameplay, since from what we've heard miyazaki established the scenario for the game and hes responsible for 4 and 4a. I think both of those games have the most depth of combat with the qb system and all of the mechanics that go with it. I'm happy to get another AC game period, but I do hope it follows the gameplay of 4a, i think the speed is very manageable and will be even better on modern hardware with a better framerate and controls, a significant reason 4 can be so hard to play is the framerate on ps3. we'll see i guess, i just hope we get second staging and quick boost cancels back!
I also vastly prefer ACfA over every over title and I too hope AC6 follows it more then any other. However the is a good argument to start AC6 with a slower approach since that might allow people to get a grip on the controls, since third person mecha games aren't really popular. If the game succeeds, then we might be able to move up in complexity. AC1-3 and ACV/Vday fans always like to complain that AC4 and 4A are "boost fests" but just try to spam boost on any of the later missions or against a competent player and see how far that gets you. The design philosophy reminds me a lot of Sekiro, where if you don't master one core mechanic, you're not gonna have a good time. There is merit in refining gameplay to it's simplest form and letting the player's skill take it from there. AC4 and ACfA are where AC6 should ultimately lead to, as the the hyper machine capabilities are always what set japanese mecha apart from the chunky western equivalents. If people want the latter, just ask for Chrome Hound 2.
@@ayuskyly8625 I agree. It’s also worth noting that since it’s on another planet it’ll likely be more technologically advanced than past titles, and NEXTs are technically more advanced ACs. We’ll have to see, but I think ac4 and fa are totally playable at a slower pace if you build right. I’m just excited to see a new title
i feel like there should be balance in the galaxy we live in, so if one place prefers 4thgen too much so there is other place where v/vd is praised and yet another where classicgen is the star of the show.
>had the most active playerbase unless we talk about japanese AC community haha. I'm still shocked to see that neko cafe channel with around 5000 uploads of acvd matches. Also Strekoza does great challenges of 3rd gen
I dunno what's the deal is with the deniers of AC4 and Vday's connection when the last boss is literally white glint and you are fighting over motherwill's corpse
Same here. I mean we kinda have the same divide in souls community... Some people prefer Dark Souls 2 slower and methodical style of combat, others prefere Bloodborny style that Dark Souls 3 was like... and now Elden Ring. Personally when i first time played DS3 after DS2 and DS1..i completely hated it... but it grew up to me, so now i am ok with it ( still would wish ER was more like DS2 in combat mechanics ).
The way I'd put it for us gen 3 fans being disappointed by gen 4 is like if you took Dark Souls 1-3 as they are, but then DS4 comes out and it's just Devil May Cry. Sure it's still fun, but doesn't feel like Dark Souls anymore. That's how we felt about AC4 turning what was a slow and methodical game into a zip-zooming power fantasy where customization doesn't matter all that much. Also the reason gen 4 is the most popular isn't because it's the best gameplay wise or something like that But rather because that's when the series started getting more mainstream attention and so brought in the most new players. And then those same players were always quick to get new players in starting with gen 4 as well. Also I'd say 4 is the 'odd one out' gameplay wise. 5 is closer to the older style than 4.
I disagree with the the notion that V and Verdict Day are disliked for being more thinking and methodical. I loved second, third and fourth gen, but wasn't a big ban of fifth. I'm all for challenge but chemical damage is not a good way to go about it.
4a is going to blow the doors off this man's expectations both on agency in storytelling, and in difficulty if he tries the hard modes. I'm so excited. In my book, 4 doesn't even count in the discussion. 4 had to crawl so 4a could sprint (at a break neck pace). In fact, This entire discussion feels a little skewed since Rata has yet to play 4a.
Honestly? Having played thru both repeatedly I prefer 4 The aesthetic is just so beautiful, having played 4A first i was not prepared for swarm of red eyes also panther > the other songs from 4 that returned in 4A In addition love the storyline and budding friendly rivalry with the og white glint, rip Joshua the homie
TH-cam puts a lot of ads on these podcasts so you can listen on different podcast platforms here: anchor.fm/ratatoskr
Episodes are released there 1 day after TH-cam.
*hands you wads of youtube premium money*
This is completely off topic but I'm not sure where to put this:
Does the name Panzermanathod ring any bells?
@@RippahRooJizah Zanzibar, forgive me.
You can actually skip to the endscreen of the video and click the 'replay video' button and it removes all ads.
@@incius8341 wait you serious?
I am your host Rat of Toska
Ahahaha geez I'm laughing my ass off at 3 AM why is it suddenly so funny
Oh my god, it's our host
Armoredcorelore: "My favorite is Formula Front"
I see that you're more of a mechanic/engineer than I pilot, respectable
time stamp ?
@@feardieshogun8153 I can confirm.
@@armoredcorelore Have you played the PS2 version? Haven't seen the entire viedo so idk if this gets mentioned, but I like the PS2 version more than the PSP one.
@@loopstratos4619 Sadly not as in the UK we only got the psp version. Mind you now i have a modded ps2 i should try to play it.
@@armoredcorelore I see, I hope you have fun if you decide to try it out. It's easier than the PSP version as you don't need to win *every* battle, only the important ones, but the gameplay is personally more fun as you are going to use all 5 ACs instead of the PSP one where you only need one, so the parts limitation actually means something there for starters.
The story happens probably right after the end of the PSP version, most of the characters are different for better and for worse. I'll just say that there's a lot more random factors in the game and unlike the PSP version it's non-linear, so depending on your progression the story may not make sense.
(played it through emulation btw, if it's at all important)
I'd like to point out a couple of things. First, I'm in the camp that AC4 and 4A are absolutely tied to ACV and Vday, due to the appearance of two very prominent elements: the ruins of an old adversary in a certain mission and the entire final boss fight. Unless they're stated to just be cameos, I don't know of any other way that they can be explained.
Second, and so many Armored Core videos neglect to mention this, ACV and Vday are the odd ones out because they're basically just spiritual successors to Chrome Hounds. When CH's servers shut down FromSoft took that template and applied it to AC. The focus on multiplayer, the urban environments, the Kinetic/Heat/Chemical damage types and the choosing of factions with world bosses are all from Chrome Hounds.
Chrome hounds is a masterpiece.
The emblem editor for AC4 was a carbon copy reuse of the one in chromehounds. The engine and graphics had the same look as well. Like you could swap assets between the games and they wouldn’t look out of place if that makes any sense.
I saw AC4 and thought of Axe Combat 4.
Fun game, few too many exploitable mechanics. Made a few builds too dominant.
@@KaikuPen i honestly think they shouldve kept the pixel art emblem maker, but just make it even more indepth, the emblem editor from 4 and 5 are amazing, but they definitely have a way bigger learning curve
What's particularly great about both Last Raven and For Answer is the heavy amount of branching storylines based on which missions you take for different clients; doing multiple playthroughs deliver character (and corporate) motivations to you based on how they respond to what you do in a given playthrough.
Interesting
AC3 was when Miyazaki entered the company but nevered work in AC to the fullest capacity until AC4, he was either in the programming backend, or planning (last raven)
I had a really fun day today
(I drove double the speed limit blasting armored core music)
The police tried pursuing me but once they heard the Armored Core: For Answer ost they said "Men back up this guy's core is armored" and let me go.
I've become a raven...
(I've never played an armored core game in my life)
god gamer
I know it's a joke, but I must do this...
In AC4 you're not a raven, you're a lynx
@@NijiharaKaito0 they are the same thing tbh
@@NijiharaKaito0 as if the police would know that. They are fools
@@Red-nl4lk fair point, it's a good soundtrack either way
I think AC6 is going to grab the interesting/fun mechanics from previous titles and polish them a bit more. Kinda like how Elden Ring took some of the mechanics from previous soulsborn titles. Like a refinement of everything that came before.
I was there for ACL for his first video, glad to see he’s moving up
And as always i like to extend my thanks for sticking with me.
Great discussions overall! Appreciated Ratatoskr having some balanced insights on the AC series. Can’t tell you how hard that is to find from people who aren’t into the games. A few notes:
3:44 - I feel this a bit of simplification of a much more complicated subject. Certainly there is merit to the argument that people disliked 4th simply because it was different, but an important point to keep in mind is that it also MASSIVELY changed Armored Core as it was. AC1 to AC3 was a linear progress of design and mechanics, a clear evolution. 4/FA made huge changes to the series, removing mechanics that had been staples to the series (heat, normal boosting, lock-on, etc.) and added new mechanics and features that felt like they were either sidestepping or ignoring what AC had been up till that point. There’s also the issue that this change had ripple effects in the community. There’s definitely a fair number of folks from the “old” scene who’d point to this era of Armored Core as being the thing that resulted in the break up of the Armored Core community at large and desolation that we had even into the V/VD era. TLDR: It’s not just about the speed, but the changes that come with that speed.
10:15 - Clarification here: Heat mechanics have been around since AC2. With Nexus, heat mechanics were ramped up to be INCREDIBLY unforgiving. Instead of building heat when getting shot at or using OB, using boosters at all cause heat to rise. Also it was easier to overheat and take damage when overheated. This along with the speed nerf and removal of OP-I/H+ is probably one of the biggest reasons why NX gets so much hate.
14:40 - This is probably one of my biggest complaints about the criticism that 5th Gen gets. This game is not that slow. V/VD’s framework is based on 4th gen and gives you the most movement options of any game. It is a hell of a lot fast than 3 or LR both in terms of overall. It’s always been a myth that the community (particularly 4th gen) has propagated since the start. Looks like ACLore pointed this out as well at 40:00.
14:57: *SPOILERS* - there is one NEXT as the final boss of Verdict Day
15:10 - Armored Core V was not in the same timeline as 4/FA, but was retconned in with Armored Core: Verdict Day and the accompanying art/lore books that were produced. You see references/glimpses throughout mission, and then see one massive unmistakable reference in the final mission of VD.
17:40 - So way back before the MP component became the main draw, the original vision for Armored Core V (then known as Armored Core 5) was a dedicated singleplayer with longer missions and objectives. Most people forget about this because it’s been so long.
18:57 - I don’t think this quite accurate. KE and TE are basically Kinetic and Energy weapons from older games. CE is basically missiles/explosive which was just grouped in with Kinetic in older games.
19:35 - In theory, this is how the three defense systems are supposed to work. In practice (an in terms of how it was actually implemented the game), it is not. Weapons can absolutely work even if an enemy has lots of defense in one area (example Shotguns, Autocannons), and you cannot get a perfectly balanced defense with any AC in this game. As such, there are design trends and players are able to build around that, which means situations where you will come up against another AC that is completely impervious to your weapons is basically impossible. There are also hidden mechanics which allows for more diverse playstyles and prevents ACs from being too comfortable with just making certain defense thresholds. This is another point of misinformation that’s used constantly against 5th gen.
20:45 - The reason for this is that 1) people act like they’ll die if they don’t talk about how much 5th Gen sucks every 5 minutes and 2) most of the 5th Gen community got sick of it and either don’t hang out in the usual spots or chose not to stick around. I think most of the remaining 5th gen players are in the AC Discord or just sort of in the void. People constantly shitting on the game and constantly giving misinformation also didn’t help as well.
25:49 - Ratatoskr hit it spot on
37:43 - This is more important now then ever before. More Armored Core is better, regardless of gen. Any Armored Core is good, and always better than no Armored Core.
Really glad to hear you enjoyed AC3, as the 3rd gen was by far my favourite. I'm surprised to hear that people dropped off with Last Raven as I remember everyone on the AC focused forums back then generally liked it a lot. I would also like to contest ACL's assertion that heat management was still a problem in LR. While yes, Nexus did go overboard with the mechanic, LR reigned it in significantly and so long as you were mindful of things like booster heat, generator calorific value, and frame cooling while designing ACs, as well as avoiding regular boosting while charging overboost during gameplay, it was practically a non-issue 90% of the time. If it saves you the headache, slapping on Vulture2 boosters, G91 generator, and Ananda radiator (almost always best radiator choice) is a perfectly balanced internals option for nearly any AC. There are of course many other viable boost/gen/rad combos with different niches to fill, so don't be afraid to experiment.
tbh it's kinda wild that I still know Last Raven AC design meta like the back of my hand despite not having played the game in over a decade.
Ac4a is the the pinnacle of the franchise it’s the natural evolution of it. It’s wht hardcore fans have always dreamed of
ACVI is gonna be like the perfect hybrid, You'll have people as fast as X-Sobrero zipping around like mosquitoes and people as slow as full tanks.
Wow. Really wasn't expecting this dialogue. Great episode.
There was a lot of interesting stuff that they talked about. How Rata felt about AC3 compared to 4 was an insight that I think I agree with, even if it doesn't personally affect my enjoyment to the same degree. AC4 is just so easy; I mean, I was able to beat the game (on normal) with each of the starting AC's and had little trouble outside of a couple missions. Even 4A I could beat the game with a starting AC, but honestly that's because of how insane the swords are. A big reason why I think that gen 4 felt so easy, is because other AC games had you start with old and cheap equipment that you ideally would switch out sooner than later-- not that there are generally objective improvements in that regard, but it gets close at times.
4 and 4A are the only ones I can think of that let you start off with a fully kitted out mech. With parts that you may actually aim to buy given that you did get the budget AC of the other games to start. Not that it would change a ton, because almost any reasonably made build can get you to hard mode with little effort. Honestly, it may not be the worst starting place for a newcomer solely by the fact that you don't need to pay attention to any of the detailed info apart from weight and energy (maybe stabilizers, but you can just use the auto selection and call it a day). But personally, and I know Rata has little interest in it, hard mode is where it's at. It doesn't simply increase enemy stats, rather it restructures most of the missions. It may be as simple as having to fight a second surprise AC, but along with extra dialogue it's cool to see. I hope when it comes to 4A he does at least just one mission on hard to see how it changes; it doesn't make you play the whole game like that either. The game is so easy normally that you beat the game for hard mode. Builds matter more, but like with all AC games making a generalist build is doable for most of it anyways.
I was surprised at how much more he loved AC3 than 4, but hearing him explain it makes perfect sense. I didn't think about it much before, but having a spotlight shown on the differences like that... I agree in what he said. From the lore, to the difficulty and reliance on actual mech building. Lore, that you don't have to go out of your way to see anyways. Not that any AC game, gen 3 included, got to what I want from the lore as a whole, but I still liked it for what it was. I wish we could've seen Rata play at least a little of 3, because the shift to him enjoying it so much more, as he said, would have been nice to see, but I'm just happy that he's having fun with it.
I love all AC games in their own ways. They each have problems, but they each have appeals, even gameplay specifically. So I also have no idea what I want from AC6. I've been anticipating the gameplay reveal so much due in part because I don't know what to expect, but also because I feel like they could do anything and I'd love it-- _"but what if they don't?",_ I can't help but wonder, but I have faith in them right now.
I really enjoyed the podcast; as I always say, I'm just happy that people are talking about the series at all. I've been replaying all of the games, and watching some ArmoredCoreLore videos here and there in preparation for AC6, even if it's not gonna release for awhile. So thank you Rata for having him on and talking about the games, it's been a treat! One quick thing, which they didn't touch on, I hope that painting AC's and emblems gets improved. It was pretty good in 5 compared to the games before, but I want them to push it more. And I hope that they have an improved way to make them. emblem editing works like Forza's does in essence, which works well, but boy do I wish I could hand-draw my own in someway. Even if it was simple mouse-functionality, which interestingly enough at least one AC game (probably others as well) has mouse support, but it's bad. Cool that it's there, though. And please keep the same style of music, From. Gen 4 and 5 had peak AC music imo, but gens 1, 2, and 3 each had great music too. Sorry for the wall of text, bye!
Also, heat was introduced in AC2 :)
I hate heat even more now.
Thanks for your comment!
When people say that the 4th generation is too easy, I think they miss the point of how utterly dominant Nexts are as war machines from a lore perspective. Nexts are the pinnacle of AC technology, and if they were made as weak as pre 4th gen and 5th gen ACs, then they aren't Nexts anymore. A problem with the 4th gen is that From Soft failed to make missions that properly showcased the power of Nexts outside of gimmicky arms forts fights. In the lore, Nexts were instrumental in bringing down the previous world order, and that meant fighting the huge mechanized armies of the world powers. But instead, the missions we get in AC4 and FA are nothing more than standard AC missions we all saw from previous games, but now we're piloting super ACs. As a result, we often got missions that can be completed as little as 30 seconds.
i think that the customization in gen 4 is fantastic, it's just that you try to make a stronger mech for the sake of pushing the limits of what you can create, not because the games forces you to improve your ac
@@95onimusha What made the 4th gen games too easy are super ACs (Nexts) and hardware limitations of the 7th console generation. From Soft can't make Nexts weak because of lore, and they can't make missions that are actually appropriate for the use of Nexts (fighting a country's military) because of the weak PS3 and Xbox.
My first AC game was AC2. I rented it a ton from Hollywood Video. I played AA, 3, Silent Line, Last Raven, 4, 4A and 5.
I can say for certain that 3 and Silent Line would be perfect 10/10 games if they had utilized the control sticks for the camera rather than the old button layout.
The story, the deep lore, the visuals, the customization, music, sound design, weapon balance were all the pinnacle of what Armored Core should be.
Last Raven was awesome but if you didn't have a Nexus save to migrate, you were SOL. Controls were finally good. LR isn't so bad if you know what you're doing. Newbies beware or Git Gud.
4 and 4A were my most played. Double S ranked both games. They were both really easy4A being even easier than 4. Played MP extensively. 4A was just so fast that it was stupid. It turned into who could mash RT the fastest.
I liked the ideas in 5, building jumping, scanner probes. Didn't like Scan Mode or the mech designs all that much. Removal of back weapons was also no good. It all just felt sort of off to me. I just found myself wishing it was more like Gen 3.
If it is some combo of Gen 3 and 4 I can see a lot of potential. Gen 5 had interesting ideas but nothing that I can say were really stood out amongst the rest of the games in the series.
Gonna play it regardless but I'll save my hype. Playing the old games is enough for me if this one isn't to my liking.
I finally got around to getting LR working on emulator. It's been pretty frustrating so far, you comment has made me realize that the harder missions have been meant for converted saves, since other missions are way, way easier. I feel like the balance is way off on the spacing though. What is the point of a sniper rifle or overboost when all the arena stages are so small you can't even outrange a handgun if your enemy parks in the middle of the stage and turns to face you? And enemies are way more mobile than I remember. Trying to use aforementioned sniper rifles, weapons marked as 'high velocity', missiles described as having superior homing... and middle and even heavyweight mechs are dodging all of this effortlessly, not to mention being a giant pain to lock on to when they move so fast at such close ranges. I struggled like crazy until I threw two handguns on and now enemy AC's just overheat and stand there while I melt them. I know I'm rusty but I doubt I'm THAT rusty, I used to be quite good in the 2nd and 3rd gen games, I even beat all the hardest missions and enemies in them with blade only builds for fun.
I find it really comedic that the armored core lore channel's favorite game is one of the few AC games that has no lore connected to any of the other games
Maybe Formula Front could take place after Last Raven, since there’s no more Ravens save for one and the corporations are destroying each other.
I'm in the side of PSX and PS2 era Armored Core, That era strategies your AC Energy Consumption, Build Lightweight , Heavy or Middleweight whether You want to be a Fast CQC AC or a Heavy Fire Power Missile will Rain while I shoot Energy Weapon and Grenade Launcher at the Target AC.
PS3 AC 4 + 4Answer Generation, HUMAN+ WITH MULTIPLE STEROIDS.
Amazing podcast really glad to see Armored core lore speak about the AC history
The singular brick wall I had when I first started playing AC years ago was the mission "Destroy unidentified AC" in Another Age. You're promised backup from 2 high ranked ravens and when you get there, both have already been destroyed. You are told that the AC is an older model and then are introduced to music that lives in many AC player's nightmares...."NINE". I did every legitimate method, every cheeseball strat, and finally...I got lucky with a all grenade tank build...something very different from the lightweight I'd been using since the beginning of the game.
I watched and thoroughly enjoyed Ratatoskrs live steams for AC4. I feel like the appreciation of AC4 and FA come with hard mode. I've always viewed normal mode to just be a tutorial. This may sound like gatekeeping but I feel that the game doesn't start till hard mode where the challenge comes into play. In hard mode the missions change significantly and make for the most memorable moments. His views on AC4 are valid for the content he has seen, but it comes off as premature to the vocal fans of the AC4/FA. My only comparison that I can think of is like doing an Elden Ring review and stopping right before encountering Margit to then say yes this is the Elden Ring experience.
Holy shit. The duo I didn't expect to see.
The lack of flying, the floaty movement, and the bloody bloom effects on everything made my eyes bleed. I couldn't play ACV for long without getting sick due to the constant flashing lights and changes in brightness. Oh, and the horrible story. I was given 0 reason to care about anything or anyone by the end of ACV and I had no idea if anything I did mattered. I felt like I was a random NPC in another person's story rather than a Raven making my way through the world.
Great podcast. ACL represented the timeline and universe divide "Well done, almost perfect."
Seeing as this my first podcast, i admit this line kind of fits.
I'm on the team that 4 and 5 are connected, on account of:
a) something akin to Line Ark in one map
b)Kitasaki Junction is there too kinda
c)Motherwill
d) N-WGIX/v
AC4 sounds like it was a learning experience for Miyazaki, about how to obscure the lore in the best way, how best to balance the importance of build with just letting players get on with playing etc.
5 multi-player was amazing
The problem with 4 is that all the mechs became essentially the same thing, super fast wispy glass cannons. I loved that 1/2/3 had more range and you could make a literal tank on treads with the added benefit of a bigger weapon loadout or you could opt for a super low weight fast boost with one or two weapons for that other end of the spectrum. I loved theorycrafting and having literal arms races with my buddies in which we would try to out design philosophy eachother with different extremes. I remember making crazy shit like an explosives only AC or a super light and fast melee only AC that was super hard to pilot but satisfying to pull off, a fucking tank tread mech that had the maximum possible firepower that became a slow moving mobile fortress of doom, it goes on and on. In 4 you have varying degrees of sonic the hedgehog and that's not necessarily wrong but if that's either all you have or the only thing viable then it gets old rather quickly.
As someone who has only played the games before 4, I can't say I ever noticed a significant increase in game speed between them.
Well, they aren't significant increases, but there is a bit of an increase over time. But a lot of it is also fluidity and better framerates, not to mention overboost being a thing.
technically AC 2nd gen was the slowest of the older AC titles I think this is to compensate the fact Overboost exists but the speed was hightened a bit in 3rd gen to be on nearly par on 1st gen
Usually when people say they like Gen 4 best they mean For Answer since it fixed most of what AC4 lacked and added awesome things like Arms Forts and the story is well done.
Theres a bit in last raven where going into the info files can potentially warn you about a ambush. This feels similar to what you see in future souls games
Sounds like ACV had that same Shadow Warrior 2 nightmare of being forced to bring one of everything.
Absolutely. Your dogfight (or I guess for 5th gen, Brawling) skills were still important, but in a departure from the sleek ac4 gameplay pilot skill was way more than mech control..being small and vulnerable meant taking environment, your own weaknesses, and scanning enemy weaknesses as well.
From my experience (mostly single player I wasn't rlly around for the MP) it was trial and error and learning what loadout could most efficiently handle every variable of the mission.
I've only recently started looking at armored core lore's channel.
nice his channel is going through a bump in viewership thanks to the new AC title.
Always cool seeing a brother in arms and fellow Raven/Lynx able to speak on Armored Core.
I'm really looking forward to your first real AC video.
Crazy thing is, I lived my Gundam fantasy in the 3rd and 5th gen games. These games allowed you to feel like a mech pilot, 4th gen has you zipping around like you're a fighter jet. I want to play as a mech pilot, not as a mech... If that makes any sense.
It does and that is fair. I just felt ac4 and for answer was more gundam like with the limit knowledge i have on the series.
@Ian Moone Learn something new everyday.
@@armoredcorelore arguably 4th gen is more Gundam 00 type of Gundam which now makes it more hilarious now that Wataru Inata has supplied Witch from Mercury mecha designs (Peil Technologies to be precise), a Gundam series that is probably heavily lifting armored core concepts
Benerit Group = the League of Corporations
there are no clear definitions on what is a country = side effect of the national dismantlement war
each character is sponsored by a company under the Benerit group umbrella = typical corpo sponsorship of Ravens and LYNX
disputes are settle by duels some characters may live and die from these duels = pretty much the Arenas in a nutshell
now go look at the gunpla of Zowort Heavy and tell me... what it is and why its earily familiar
AC4 is more like Another Century which is actually a game that has many Gundam series along with other mechs, one of the last Another Century games has (9)ball as an enemy, I'm not sure if you can play as him. Another Century ps2 is also a very good series but a lot more aerial and fast. That's the reason i didn't like AC4.
@@Phantom_Zer0 you can only use Seraph for 1 unique mission but you can hack the game since the code logic is there, its literally "built" to be the perfect Gundam destroyer good thing the AI piloting it was lightly scuffed and can not use its full arsenal
full arsenal includes, Primal Armor, Exceed Orbits 8-10 units, macross multi missile, Mirage Coloid (can't lock on what you can't see), Mega Beam Launcher, Moonlight gimmick, arm vulcans all of these weapons at your finger tips for 1 mission kill 900 enemies
basically put take the Freedom Gundam give it the ability to go invisible, give it a Psychoframe shield, and super packs from Macross and swords that can emit projectiles oh it also has access to Quick boost in a way
Above average gaming and crazzycomrade in your podcast will be very fine since they are good AC streamer
Nice video anyway
I agree both are very good armored core channels.
My only issue with 4 was that it turned the skill and mech specialization i was most skilled at and they made it automatic
I already played high-speed, near-infinite flying mechs.
That, and i loved the Large Missile in Nine-Breaker.
"I already played high-speed, near-infinite flying mechs" What mech game is that?!!
@@dragonandavatarfan8865 Armored Core 1-3.
It took knowing what every stat actually did and choosing the parts specifically geared for speed and flight.
I like the idea of actually having a pilot avatar that is customizable from like scavenger outfit/suit to pilot suits from companies and possibly all the way to plugsuits like from Evangelion for ester egg or something like that.
Armored Core 4 has very unique circumstances about you, the player/main character. In other AC games you're a lowly mercenary starting as nobody and somehow tangled with corporations shenanigans. However in AC4, all NEXT pilots ("Lynx") are special, because only few humans can be compatible with the system NEXT run on (called AMS I think). Your character is still a mercenary in AC4, but being a valuable asset you have full backing of your colony. My assumption is that Fiona (your operator) and her uncle who ran the colony do everything for you, from correspondences to negotiating contracts. So you're not being a lone mercenary that has to manage everything and piece every information by yourself like in other games.
I understand that this may feel strange to some people, and in For Answer you're back being a lone merc again as NEXTs were no longer considered special. But I kinda like this unique vibe of AC4.
I also really loved the dynamic that your pilot had with Fiona and her uncle, He was being used in order to save Anatolia and build their wealth. Although ultimately leaving with Fiona after what happened at the end with O-Brien to join line ark as their ace in the hole.
1. must retain the full customization like the old AC, like need proper head for radar & stuffs
2. faster than 3 just a bit with limitation no spammable overbooster or will overheat faster/drain energy much faster
3. multiple endings like last raven
4. good ol' AC Hud not like 4 or 5 or just make it changeable option
5. story dlc, secret parts dlc
6. 1v1 & 3v3 rank cross-platform pvp, guild & stuffs like ladder with unique part rewards seasonal for competitiveness/longevity after finishing the campaign
7. next gen graphics
Correction for ACL on Armored Core V and Verdict Day: NEXTs appear in the games as bosses.
correction its not evident in ACV that its connected to 4th gen until verdict day there are no NEXTs in V
It's only one NEXT though, even then it is like an amalgam of different ones from 4. The thing really seal the deal is that there is a reconstruction on Spirit of Motherwill that you can raid on in multiplayer and there is a map that has the Cradle wreckage in the background.
@@lesslighter Exusia is very visibly based on the tech used to create NEXTs though. Unlike every other unit in the game, it visibly emits Kojima particles in the air.
Also the ORCA banners everywhere make it pretty clear that V and Verdict Day are indeed in the same universe as 4 and 4A.
@@Simon-fc9hg when I fought Exusia its visibly not based on a NEXT type of technology... maybe Pulverizer or IBIS but thats pushing it its too "alien" to be considered a basis for NEXT frame maybe Seraph? but thats wayy way pushing it
It’s a shame because all the AC games did a fantastic job of world building through key game moments and background elements, arena pilot bios, mail, Last Raven had a literal INFORMATION SECTION that told you about everything in an encyclopedic catalogue of everything including enemies/parts/companies.
Then 4 happened and it was just “welcome to robot anime here’s the deal, uhhhhh go fight something and figure it out”.
I really like both 4 answer and verdict day. I want the many parts from 4a, and armor system from 4a, but the combat speed and controls from 5V.
My major complaint with 5V is not its gameplay its the multiplayer focus. If it wasn't so focused on multiplayer I think it would be an amazing game. But it was let down by that focus.
Also 5 verdict dayis one of the few games you can still buy digitally
Verdict day Is so slow so absolutely no thanks. I love the speed of 4 answer
@@denisn8336 So you like Infinite dodge rolling?
I agree V and VD isn't bad for their mechanics but for their multiplayer focus.
@@denisn8336 It's not that Verdict Day is slow, it's that it has a much wider scale of speed than Gen 4 had.
While Gen V won't get Gen 4 speeds, I can assure you that Verdict Day allows you to get close to what Gen 4 offers.
@@denisn8336 slow? it's faster than any ac except 4 and fA. Did you ever checked how good players play pvp in vd? its fast enough (though obv not as fast as 4 th gen).
Love that guy's channel. Good cross-over
I like to play my AC at a cinematic 15 fps, just like we did in the glory days of the "PSX" as we called it. Really helped you savor every frame.
None of these ridiculous dual stick controls. We looked up/down with L2/R2 like real men. No OB, no silly primal armor, no dropping your weapons like a soy boy. Nowadays if you look at an ACs left hand you're more likely to find an asthma puffer or soy latte. Back then you either carried your LS99 Moonlight in your left hand (the most gentlemanly among weapons) or you crawled along the ground like a worm. Kings among men were we who linked our PSXs with the link cable and played on two big boxy TVs, just as the good Lord intended.
That being said, thank God in heaven that AC6 will finally be on PC. After all, I never thought we'd see the day we could unbind the controls and frame limit back down to 15 FPS. Technology sure is amazing. What a time to be alive
THE MAIN MAN HIMSELF MADE IT BIG
and stumbling along the way =)
First time watching your channel especially ACL brought me here (through TH-cam Feed/Algorithm). I think it's better in AC6 if they include an "Info Menu" section (Last Raven had similar in-game menu section of lores where you can read it if I correctly remember) where you can read all lore in-game information.
I enjoyed the fair exchange of opinions/ideas between you and ACL.
I find Ratatoskr's comparison of AC3 and AC4 very interesting...because it's pretty much the complete opposite of my experience. As much as I liked AC3, I eventually had to put it down because I got so. Damn. Tired. of using just missiles in every mission. I'd throw myself at a mission I was struggling with over and over, and then come in with a load of explosive ordinance and clear no problem. Again and again and again, missiles were just the correct answer, and I just got tired of it.
AC4? I do kind of understand where he's talking about the easiness of it, because I'd usually complete a mission with whatever my loadout was, but after each mission I'd me right back into the shop, scrolling through the new parts, selling everything but my laser blade, and trying out EVERYTHING, narrowing in further and further on a build that felt just right. In AC4, my NEXT was -mine-, unlike in AC3 where I just built whatever would get me through the mission and I didn't really care about my particular AC. I didn't really want my dumpy missile platform, but it was what worked and what got me progressing.
EDIT: Also, I just really, really love the high speed combat of AC4. I'm constantly looking for games that are like that, and they're surprisingly hard to find.
I gotta disagree about V. it wasn't just a multiplayer game, there's a full fledged armored core game in there. aside from the main missions there's still like ~50 side missions which have several multi-missions storylines of their own
Not to worry Rat. ACFA will bring challenging fights. Even on normal.
Having never played any of the Armored cores, I have to say that slower, hulking mechs are more apealing to me than fast flying forcefield Gundams
Yeah some games I've seen the combat almost resembles Ace Combat with how fast and distant the fights were...I would prefer a slower more up close action.
Agreed
Tbf, not all Gundams are fast paced. So it depends, just like AC. Not all are on par or equal is the best way to put it
AC 4 really went too fast.
I just want AC6 to recapture the joy and fun I had while playing gen 3
I want to say that armor core five IS connected to four, as there is a crashed vessel in verdict day that only appears in for answer.
Also the spirit of motherwill (if you meant the cradle) aswell as the final boss of VD being a rebuilt white glint (confirmed to be a NEXT due to the primal armor, kojima radiation it spews out and of course, the assault armor)
he forgot nine breaker - the armored core boot camp or training school, one that you should try out before doing last raven. moreover, it's the game for pilots compared to formula front which is the game for engineers. silent line also introduced the AI system which was expanded further in formula front, where your AI AC adapts to how you pilot your mech.
This guy is a great guest and consistently had interesting answers to questions. Love the podcast. It is so adaptive and honestly Ratatoskr I think you found a niche with your changing gaming interests and ideas. I think there are enough people who roughly match up with Outward->MH? Didn’t watch at the time, also ds3 lore->ER hype -> ER in-depth lore -> MHRise -> Rediscovering ER -> AC Hype/discovering for DS players that you don’t even have to worry about splitting your audience. People like these games because they are engaging and creative in similar ways.
btw after Miyazaki joined the world building in these games became better exponentially, especially with 4 and 4A (even if the story isn't as well executed as the previous games, i said world building)
I just want FromSoft to acknowledge at least insert 1 special npc and call him The Raven and give him a Normal but surprises you with how godlike he is with his handling as like a nod or a passing of torch to the new era of mechs
maybe not even "the raven".... call him... Nineball
I always felt FA was the pinnacle. I've played since I fell in love with the very first one and each new gen felt like a legit evolution.
Gen 1 - Introduction
Gen 2 - Overboost, Inside Parts
Gen 3 - Exceed Orbit Cores, Expansion Of Offhand Weapons, Shields, Extension Parts
Gen 4 - Primal Armor, Assault Armor, Quick Boosting, Vanguard Overboost, Arms Forts (essentially 'giant MT')
Gen 5 - Removed Flight, Removed Back Weapons, Weapon Swapping Arms, Introduced More PvP Focused Content
While I do feel *For Answer* made the pace of combat 'too fast' I greatly disliked V which essentially threw out the baby with the bath water. Gen 3 Pace with some Gen 4 tech (quick-boosts but not infinitely spammable) would be the goldilocks' zone.
I agree with this a lot, especially that last part.
Wonderful interview!
Within my circle, we are hoping for a speed that is between 3rd gen and 4th gen, leaning towards 3rd.
As a longtime fan of Armored Core having 100% all the games and some multi-player, I completely agree with pretty much everything said here.
Also, having both classic ACs and later on nexts in the same game would be a master stroke. They could even make arena/multi-player category based which would be pretty awesome.
Each generation has something it did well. The overall pacing in 3 was very good, and forced you to think and change things up constantly and to build for all sorts of challenges. 4 was top notch for customization, I liked being able to go dual blades, or a rifle and a minigun, or a sniper and a machinegun, or anything I wanted. 5 had sniping down to an art, and having a dedicated reticle and a boost charge was really nice. But each game had its problems. 3 still had trigger aim untill Nexus/LR, and then Heat and parts damage soured some people something fierce. 4 was mostly fine, but 4a was very fast, and some battles were a huge dificulty spike. V/VD very much felt clunky, but also made laser blades alot tougher to even use in comparison to even 3rd gen. Theres ups and downs to each, and I really cannot wait to see how they bring it all together like they did with Souls for Elden Ring
The main reason fighting cowboy said they shouldn't go with the speed from 4 is because they have a big new audience and they need to appeal to them.
Awesome! We need to hear more from armored core lore besides his lore videos :D
here are my hot takes in AC4 was the answer for Konami ZoTE people wanted "high speed" mecha From Soft Answer gave them ZoTE
ACV doesnt have mail system its literally absent even to verdict day
ZoE2 also had more focus on melee
I reckon I'll put my thoughts in here then. I have played Armored Core from the very first one. I love them all and there are things I don't like about each one. ACV and Vday are my least favorite but mainly because it didn't seem like ACs that I was mainly piloting. Like someone ( @Ayu Skyly ) else said it take inspiration from Chrome Hounds (and I even told that to my friends that didn't play Chrome Hounds). It's like the 5th generation was more of a mix of AC and CH. I enjoyed Chrome Hounds a lot back in the day as well.
I loved AC4 & 4A because it was fresh and exciting and just fun. I even challenged myself to be a highspeed blade AC and yes you can half your time in missions and obliterate all gun wielding ACs with dual blades and even "Go swimming" on them. You could make your AC go so fast that the net code wouldn't be able to keep up and it looked like you was teleporting and the enemy player wouldn't know what hit them.
I miss and love both AC2 and AC3 genres. I spent so much time on them and I loved their stories the most. I adore the AC designs the most and weapon designs.
What I would love to see from AC6.... More designs, equipment, options weapons, cores from AC2 and AC3. A refined but tuned down gameplay of AC4 so you can't make an OP blader AC but have the quick and smoother gameplay but to where you feel heavier AND the auto flight over water because for some reason my mech isn't water proof lol. I would love to see co-op and multiplayer similar to AC5, because I like playing with my friends and squad. As for the story telling. I do miss the emails and I want more cutscenes but I also want something that the Armored Core series has never done in game. I want to have faces show up for when someone is talking to you on comms/cutscenes because I want to feel more involved with those characters other than a name and voice. Make me feel like there is more to this world than just the mechs (even if that is the world) but to see facial expressions that can help you understand what those people are not only conveying through voice....
That is the thoughts of an old Raven that is not divided by genres and loves all the AC games in their own way.
P.S. Nineball should make an appearance as a fun memory because Hustler 1 is awesome!
AC4FA is the best AC game! Long time AC fan here.
Facts
Just because its Baby's first Armored Core doesn't make it the best, just the most popular.
@@justsomeguywithlasereyes9920 If he thinks it's the best then he thinks it's the best. No point trying to force your opinion on him,
Hopefully it's like LAST RAVEN
Sony and MS missed opportunities on not making the AC available again on their online stores before AC6 launch.
It's interesting to hear from people who played the earlier AC games to see their perspective on the franchise, given that I only played five
Armored Core Last Raven was the pinnacle of AC.
Ironically, many players agree with Maximilian's claim that the nobles return to the ground, but they themselves like to fly NEXT in the air and complain that ACV can only stay on the ground.
13:43In fact, the Gundam00's technical settings are somewhat similar to AC4. These include GN particles/Kojima particles, Union's MS/ACfA's lightweight AC, and Human Reform League's Tieren/Aldra' SOLDNER-G8
21:50 I massively agree. However I was thinking along the lines of NEXTs being massively expensive to operate, all the way so that the pay of the mission may not even cover the opperating costs. Making it into a numbers game of "is it worth it to bring out the big guns or can I scratch by with just an AC". Like the final boss of ACVD an AC fighting a NEXT. Fighting the best thing with junker in comparison.
Of course as you get further in the pays will increase and opperating the NEXT more often becomes more pheaseable. But the raw reward difference of doing that same mission in the much cheaper AC would be tremendous. Risk vs Reward.
10/10 podcast , need more.
I can't say much what it is like in other AC games since I have only played AC Phantasma, AC Formula Front and AC Last Raven. I think Chromehounds is the game where they tested first and a community that liked it formulated and then another game maker made a similar game to Chromehounds. So Chromehounds is like a test for AC 4 and AC For Answer that is why there is a nice destructible environment that stays which means the players can say there's a proof of the destruction and events that just happened whether it is a duel or pvps. But since AC4+ is barren and feels lonely or empty, they added buildings in AC V+ or places where one can hide but it lacked the aerial speed which I think is like the dream to desire from a mech (plus, movement of the circle aim area feels hard to observe like it can only move L/R or U/D one at a time and not diagonal). Multiplayer is always a nice thing because back then when I can't play ps2 ACs, I'm envious of people who can join tournaments (even though I think it is locally organized and in a different country like US) and they go into duels with their overboosts. AC V+ added a new layer of maybe nice features that have tactical feel to battles like scan mode and an operator that is like the theme in Code Geass anime. AC V+ also got good animations, ultimate weapons, etc. They should just mix the nice things from previous ACs like persisting environmental destruction, good duel + multiplayer from AC V+, AC For Answer aerial dance speed, battlefields with structures around, a square or rectangle aim (I think some people don't like the way you need to aim in AC4+ but maybe they can improve it), complexity + betrayals + campaign duels + needing to rely on gravity to pull you down to dodge + a useful running / jumping dodge capabilities incorporated so there is a balance for aerial dodge from pre AC4 games (though I don't mind if they only put more aerial dodges like in For Answer). Also, iirc, older AC games don't have difficulty settings (?). They should use what they think is best. Btw, AC Formula Front also got nice vibes (I played both JP version where battles are automatic and US version where the player can manually control the AC). The only time I needed a guide, is when I want to unlock a hidden weapon that must be fetched while in the middle of a mission battle in pre AC4 games.
I hope that we can get a re-release collection of all the classic AC games, id bet anything it would help sew together the parts of the fanbase fractured by the generation they played first/most.
The fact that we haven't yet makes me fear that the source code is lost or something.
I think the setting is going to scratch my titanfall itch
Last raven is good at breaking you down so you can be rebuilt better.
Going from ac2 to last raven was quite jarring .
I like all of the AC game's. I liked how 4 and 4A went and it felt like a natural progression to be honest. But AC 5 was where the only online issue popped its head in to say hello. It could have worked if they thought it out a little bit more but it just fell flat. I didn't care that they reduced the ACs flying or movement speed's at all and the ACs were beautiful.
I hope we don't have damage types playing a big role in AC6, because the implementation of this type of rock/paper/scissors mechanic is almost always sloppy and artificial and rarely ever explained with in-game lore (or in games like Dark Should it plays a minimal role and is mostly for flavor, except maybe for the stone skinned enemies requiring blunt damage, which is logical)
I'd rather it comes naturally through other game mechanics, like fast flying enemies requiring some rapid firing weapons or an anti-air weaponry with lock-on capabilities, heavily armored enemies require mines or armor piercing heavy weaponry, etc etc.. I hope that's what we get rather than blue damage beats red mech, red damage beats green mech, and green damage beats blue mech which is almost always how this kind of mechanic is lazily implemented.
very cool podcast. i love his bri'ish accent
I am 15 seconds into this video and I paused just to state that any criticism in ac4a will result in a 1v1 challenge issued to the offender, where upon I choose the lightest mech possible and quick boost until the heat death of the universe.
Your terms are acceptable
1v1 old peace city
4A is just a spam fest of Quick Boost Cancelling and 2nd/3rd Stage Quick Boost. Last Raven is the perfect balance of speed, more weapons to choose, and more tactics to choose EO, OB. If we're going to 1v1 in 4A, remove the auto lock on and auto boost in the options. Gen1-3 it's a skill to master boost hopping (auto boost in 4A).
After we 1v1 on 4A Reg 1.20, let's 1v1 on Last Raven :)
@@inixi8ocelot they each have their particular things to master. I just found the mastery of 4a's mechanics far more liberating than 3's.
Don't get me wrong, I love 3 and it's iterations. But with 3 I feel like I'm working out ways to move better in shackles. Whereas in 4a, the shackles are gone and I'm working out ways to actually move with some measure of control.
There's a huge difference between a spam booster and someone using quick boost with any measure of purpose to their movement. Much the same as spam rolling vs strategic rolling in Souls.
@@Rave.- Of course I know spamming will get you killed just like in Souls Games, and in Fighting games, Ex: spamming Eddie's sweeps, will get you low parried and wall carry juggles to death.
4A feels like an arcade game and not a mech sim anymore in terms of difficulty. No more heat management, you can't drown into the ocean, they removed the look camera smoothing FCS lock box and changed it to a full screen auto facing lock on. Sound in some weapons needs more oomph like the grenade launcher from the original hits like a truck and you can feel it. The removal of sword wave mechanics. It was so cool how each blade had a different effect too. Like there was one that did a really wide wave that split into 3, or the original sword wave of the Moonlight blade from Project Phantasma that explodes like a mini Big Bang explosion of blue stars (Elden Ring Dark Moon Blade projectile has this effect as well).
Quick Turn is not a universal mobility and only accessible thru side extensions. Basically, 4A added Human Plus features on all mechs. I want it to be optional parts, so it's not too OP.
@@inixi8ocelot It seems like all the reasons you dislike it (barring weapons) are the QoL changes that make me love it way more than AC3 offerings.
I love that you focus your channel on each new thing your interested in, and having new guests on your podcast that are knowledgeable about those games
Its hard for me to believe that AC4 is not the natural evolution of AC3. I love them in their own ways and still play both. I think I would like to see another Armored Core without Nexts but not the path that 5 took.
Ac4 controls just gave so much more agency to me as a player. I'm not sure I can go back to ac without it. I bought ac5 when it came out and I played about 10 minutes of it before never playing it again.
You can't go from ultimate freedom to that much limitation in 1 game progression.
@@Rave.- I think a 3.5 would still be a good amount of freedom for me as long as there are fast lights and tough heavies. Dont get mad at the light boys for being hard to hit when they are always 2-3 grenades away from death.
@@Rave.- so you never learned how to boost drive properly. I see.
I'll take a more refined version of ACFA.
A lot of this falls to something that is common in many genres, in the FGC we call it "New game bad, old game good". People like the shit that they played as kids or teens and often look at the new version as a lesser version. Sometimes it's based on actual aspects of the game, sometimes it's just a feeling, but it's almost always biased based on personal nostalgia.
Armored Core Last Raven is the reason why Armored Core 4 exists the way they are. Armored Core has always been about overcoming overwhelming odds, experimentation, trial and error. This has been From Software core philosophy in every game. But since Last Raven really whooped a lot of people's backs, they need to make changes to the game. People were really mad about how Last Raven is totally unfair and off the rails when it comes to punishing you in AC to AC fights, even the first mission was a noob trap so you get stuck there fighting a decked out AC while you're in a starter one. Gamers now tend to buy games that they can GET to the ending like a movie with the good stuff (blame COD4). They wanted the protagonist spectacle, they wanted to be the chosen ones, with classic movie flick writings and the Japanese devs are taking notice. (Ace Combat Assault Horizon, Front Mission Evolved, etc).
In addiciton ZOE and most of the japanese mecha games out there was favoring more speed type gameplay. For me Armored Core 1 through Last Raven has always been this middleground of functional, but essentially Japanese design that simply give it's own charm. As if, you hand out a Mechwarrior game project to Itano and From, and this is what they come out with.
But Armored Core 4 really did tone down the difficulty (and still get criticisms of Marche Au Supplice being too hard for the new players of Xbox360/PS3), they gave leeway with even better energy regen in ACFA that simply just turn off the older gen players. It was really easy, there is no way you can make a bad build (as long as its not tank).
Remind you, the game was released, during a time period where ZOE seems to not have any sign of getting any sequel, so most of the ZOE fans run towards this game instead.
This was released during an era, where easy games was praised and it was all about the rave reviews. Easy games are "fun", you deserve power fantasy, kick back and enjoy your day with gaming being a demigod mecha of death. There was nothing wrong asking a "sequel" to give you even MORE power fantasy, because for the majority of gaming sphere of 2010s, sequels equals stronger, better, faster.
So when ACV hits, where you get strip down into Chromehounds type scenarios, you are essentially smaller with less guns (no back weapons), it was really a killjoy. A sequel of a game that "downgrades" your equipments, your mech, it really felt wrong for ACFA fans, and especially for people who started with it. And to be honest, there is zero lore of triangle relationship struggle as you see in previous game. The lore has zero writing, you don't even get a name as a pilot, you are referred literally as Mercenary (in AC1-LR you are called Ravens, in AC4/ACFA you are called LYNX). IMO, ACV singleplayer was seriously lacking, but ACVD is actually pretty enjoyable, and unique for its time. This "dark" era, casted by its own playerbase will persist throughout the Fromsoft released game, leading up to Dark Souls 1.
It wasn't until Dark Souls 1 released on PC, where people start to valor hard on difficult videogames. DO note they did release Demon's Souls right after ACFA, and people do get mad about that game being too hard (except for some fringe videogame community, where people who cleared the game gets praises for toughing it out). As these fringe communities grow, and go out into social media, get some friends, and they start to instill the mentality of loving hard games into the general public. Now Dark Souls 1 gets pretty popular on PC (because Demons Souls was a PS3 exclusive, so they too wanted to get the "I beat a hard game medal"), and suddenly "Git Gud" wasn't toxic, it was an honrable war cry in internet forums. Now people keep wanting hard games, and From just keep feeding them on what they do best, because suddenly people clicked with it. Being good at hard games gets you internet points and cats. No more people are willing to openly admit that hard games was unenjoyable for them, lest they will get mocked on forums.
So now we are back at we came from with very different expectations. It's probably the trickiest game to pull off, understandably when it comes to difficulty, design and preferences. The era of praising hard games. The era where people thirst for challenge. The era where beauty is min maxing your mech/characters.
The soulsbourne crowd wants hard games. They wanted challenge. They wanted weight in their movements. Deep lore and personal connections to the pilots.
The PS1 era crowd wants it back to where it is. Filler missions, some mission that will be "that mission" that gets you filtered for WEEKS, unfair missions 1v2 AC scenarions, and half the game is basically running CATIA software and CFD to check all your stats are in the good side before missions.
The ACFA era players wants the power fantasy, infinite flying, infinite boosting, laser blades. You are the best because you are in the best mech, in the best aesthetics.
The ACV era fans, well, they just want a fleshed out single player. Also ACV has the best rewarding feeling of landing melee hit.
Will a sequel check all those boxes? Doubtly so. Will I play it? Definitely. Will I complain about it? Absolutely not.
i am personally an ACVD fan. The movement are beautiful, you can drift, Reverse Joints serves a purpose, and Tanks are scary.
Last Raven did have some chosen one vibes you just actually had to earn it 🐄
@@procow2274 true. The game doesn't give you right outta gate the best generators, or some of the best mobility parts starting out. You are meant to get royally screwed on FIRST MISSION. As if the devs and the lore works AGAINST you.
Last Raven story feels like everyone is just trying to survive and make do (like you), but now everyone is pointing their guns on each other, while on the main stage, both Evangel and Jack O insists on their egos as if they're the dominants. You're nothing but just another fodder in this madness arms war.
But, if indeed you decided going against POWER, stacked odds, and egotistical maniacs, then yes, your SKILLS are tested as a pilot. that what makes LR is just so damn good.
All I want is better controls..
Armored Core controls is the biggest reason why we have few players in the AC franchise. (Other than the console only release)
I wanna fight more people!
One thing is I hope there's some semblance of "corpos that have very specific design philosophies" when it comes to their mech choice and style. Borderlands did something like that and made every gun feel like it was made by the specific corporations. Like make each mech feel like "Omer Labs made this" or "This is a GA machine" just by looking at it, you know who made what. Brand identity should be the strongest in this game, considering we are getting the most HD AC game so far.
That was in older games too btw
@Gamer 1000 Mc I'm not saying it wasn't. I hope it sticks. That's why I used Ga/omer
@Gamer 1000 Mc I think 4 had that, but 5 didn't.
I'll play some of the old AC games before 6 arrives.
Armored Core
I love this podcast
not sure if this channel just has a larger amount of people that prefer the non-ac4 games, but i think it says a lot that ac4a has had the most active playerbase throughout these years of silence, as well as a very vocal fanbase. I think also realistically it will follow this games fairly closely in gameplay, since from what we've heard miyazaki established the scenario for the game and hes responsible for 4 and 4a. I think both of those games have the most depth of combat with the qb system and all of the mechanics that go with it. I'm happy to get another AC game period, but I do hope it follows the gameplay of 4a, i think the speed is very manageable and will be even better on modern hardware with a better framerate and controls, a significant reason 4 can be so hard to play is the framerate on ps3. we'll see i guess, i just hope we get second staging and quick boost cancels back!
I also vastly prefer ACfA over every over title and I too hope AC6 follows it more then any other. However the is a good argument to start AC6 with a slower approach since that might allow people to get a grip on the controls, since third person mecha games aren't really popular. If the game succeeds, then we might be able to move up in complexity.
AC1-3 and ACV/Vday fans always like to complain that AC4 and 4A are "boost fests" but just try to spam boost on any of the later missions or against a competent player and see how far that gets you. The design philosophy reminds me a lot of Sekiro, where if you don't master one core mechanic, you're not gonna have a good time. There is merit in refining gameplay to it's simplest form and letting the player's skill take it from there. AC4 and ACfA are where AC6 should ultimately lead to, as the the hyper machine capabilities are always what set japanese mecha apart from the chunky western equivalents. If people want the latter, just ask for Chrome Hound 2.
@@ayuskyly8625 I agree. It’s also worth noting that since it’s on another planet it’ll likely be more technologically advanced than past titles, and NEXTs are technically more advanced ACs. We’ll have to see, but I think ac4 and fa are totally playable at a slower pace if you build right. I’m just excited to see a new title
@@brodymiller7304I really hope the game ain’t slow
i feel like there should be balance in the galaxy we live in, so if one place prefers 4thgen too much so there is other place where v/vd is praised and yet another where classicgen is the star of the show.
>had the most active playerbase
unless we talk about japanese AC community haha. I'm still shocked to see that neko cafe channel with around 5000 uploads of acvd matches. Also Strekoza does great challenges of 3rd gen
I dunno what's the deal is with the deniers of AC4 and Vday's connection when the last boss is literally white glint and you are fighting over motherwill's corpse
Cant wait to see Ratatoskr try Armored Core: For Answer and get slapped with the mulitple brick walls lol
Being a souls fan I instinctively want a slower AC but it difficult to tell. I'm interested either way. Maybe a feel differently after playing it.
Same here.
I mean we kinda have the same divide in souls community... Some people prefer Dark Souls 2 slower and methodical style of combat, others prefere Bloodborny style that Dark Souls 3 was like... and now Elden Ring.
Personally when i first time played DS3 after DS2 and DS1..i completely hated it... but it grew up to me, so now i am ok with it ( still would wish ER was more like DS2 in combat mechanics ).
That's fair but Pre Gen 4 AC are still fast games. Gen 4 just dialled it up to 11.
The way I'd put it for us gen 3 fans being disappointed by gen 4 is like if you took Dark Souls 1-3 as they are, but then DS4 comes out and it's just Devil May Cry.
Sure it's still fun, but doesn't feel like Dark Souls anymore.
That's how we felt about AC4 turning what was a slow and methodical game into a zip-zooming power fantasy where customization doesn't matter all that much.
Also the reason gen 4 is the most popular isn't because it's the best gameplay wise or something like that
But rather because that's when the series started getting more mainstream attention and so brought in the most new players.
And then those same players were always quick to get new players in starting with gen 4 as well.
Also I'd say 4 is the 'odd one out' gameplay wise.
5 is closer to the older style than 4.
I disagree with the the notion that V and Verdict Day are disliked for being more thinking and methodical. I loved second, third and fourth gen, but wasn't a big ban of fifth. I'm all for challenge but chemical damage is not a good way to go about it.
4a is going to blow the doors off this man's expectations both on agency in storytelling, and in difficulty if he tries the hard modes. I'm so excited.
In my book, 4 doesn't even count in the discussion. 4 had to crawl so 4a could sprint (at a break neck pace). In fact, This entire discussion feels a little skewed since Rata has yet to play 4a.
Honestly? Having played thru both repeatedly
I prefer 4
The aesthetic is just so beautiful, having played 4A first i was not prepared for swarm of red eyes
also panther > the other songs from 4 that returned in 4A
In addition love the storyline and budding friendly rivalry with the og white glint, rip Joshua the homie
You're implying AC4A is difficult, it isn't.
@@darkjackl999 Facts about the Panther part, if there's one song that i can transfer over from AC4 to ACFA then it's Panther, and maybe Fall too