This video was fantastic, man....so clearly explained and well researched. Not to mention the visuals, which was such a nice touch too. Thank you for this.
I'm quite surprised that you didn't mentioned the Ash Lake from DSI. Cause following this line of reasoning, it fit pretty neatly into a "primeval cosmic ocean" motif.
wait, according to ds1 the world is supported by archtrees, and if the water they grow in is the same "primeval ocean" that the dregs of humanity sink into, maybe that's another reason the world keeps getting worse? Not only the stagnation of Fire but the foundations of the world is being poisoned by the dregs of Man
OHNYGOD, thank you for helping me understand the Locust’s dialogue in conjunction with Irina’s. To me it always seemed like he was blatantly lying, but it all makes so much more sense if we seperate the sinful nature of the deep from the purity of the Abyss. Fantastic video.
6:15 this is when i understood this guy is a cut above many others Dark Souls' lore channels, the video is really well put togheter, the images and informations keep you hooked and the explanation is simple to graps, really well done! Subscribed.
I wonder if the Deep could then be related to ash lake? It certainly seems to be a large primeval body of water at the bottom of the world. Could it be the earlier, mostly pure version of what would become the Deep by the time of DS3?
I once saw a lore video here on youtube, which implied, that the deep was connected to the DS2 protagonist arriving in the world of DS2, by Drangleic either existing inside of the Deep or the Deep being used as sort of a whormhole to get there. Because the opening cutscene of DS2 which shows this process, features a lot of similarities to the magic aldritch and his followers are using. It is quite an intruiging theory i think and a lot of good connections between ds2 and the deep of ds3 are made. If i find the video again i will update this post.
Great video, I love the idea that the Abyss has a purity to it. This explains how in Dark Souls 2, the Undead Crypt full of "the dark" was stated as the only way for most undead to find peace. So we know that the Dark/Abyss grants peace of sorts. And seeing how the Abyss doesn't have the putrid corruption that the Deep does is fascinating. It reminds me of previous lore videos on this subject that mention the Shinto religion of Japan having a concept known as "Kegare" which is a kind of ritual impurity associated with water, with things only able to become "kegare" by being touched by "abhorrent" things such as the Deep mentions. (corruption, filth etc..) Seems like the Abyss gets a bit of a bad wrap for no reason, perhaps the DEEP is why the Abyss corrupts people, and that if one is able to combat the Deep portion of "the dark" leaving only the Abyss then the dark is only the original description of "the deep was once peaceful" etc..
I love how you focus more on concepts and how they are applied to the setting and lore. I enjoy lore videos on characters and the plot however, this is a welcome change of pace. Hope to see more :).
I would also add the detail that Irina is blind, implying that she sees darkness where none exist. This further expands on the point that what she percives as an engulfing darkness is something that comes from within herself. The insects that bite her are also a metaphorical representation of how the pain of guilt can sometimes feel as physical pain, like insects gnawling at your flesh. Like everything else in Dark Souls, this is also semi-metaphorical and semi-literal, because those insects from the deep are actually real. Irina represents the tragedy of not only being tormented by guilt, but also not being able to take accountability for that guilt, attributing it to some external factor that removes the responsability from herself. The Irony is that this lack of accountability for her own sins will only draw her deeper into the darkness of the deep. She is said to be a frail woman, after all. Also, as other comments pointed out, it is weird that you didn't say anything about Ash Lake from Dark Souls 1, as it fits perfectly into your theory. Ash Lake could very well be the sacred cosmic ocean before it was corrupted, before it became the Deep.
The Deep has always confused me but holy heck this explains a LOT! As a Greek myth and mythology in general nut, the Flood myth mention put things into perspective
this video is so good, this made the deep make so much sense. and too add on the serene primordial sea it could be talking about is ash lake, which is *for the most part* at the very bottom of the world, so I'd assume that the dregs will sink to the bottom and corrupt ash lake and eventually engulf the world
I think I see now. The thing that all of the various Lord's of Cinder have in common is that they had the potential to change the world, to create a different sort of world than the present one. They all had or have the potential to remake the world in their idea of what if could be, and sometimes that is the potential to do something good, or bad. In the end it doesn't matter to the fire; the fire only wills that their potential energy be used as the fuel for its perpetuation. It's all just fuel for the fire.
The way I have always looked at it is the variations of the abyss: the Deep, the Profane Flame are versions of the abyss tainted by something else. Much in the way that you have neutral evil or pure evil, but also Chaotic evil, and Lawful Evil. I'm not saying the Abyss is evil, it's just the afterlife. but it is similar in concept.
This is a fascinating take that I think really does feel novel compared to most of what I've seen on the conceptualization of the Deep as a force or function within the Dark Souls universe. Even over the last few years of lore and speculation on the games, the Deep always felt strangely obfuscated, more ambiguous than usual. This was a really great way of elucidating upon the subject, especially in connecting with the mythological foundations that Miyazaki likely drew from, and giving meaning to the distinction between the Dark and the Deep as a vital aspect of its role within Dark Souls 3's story and its eschatological bend, orienting itself towards the apocalypse. That's exactly why this felt so fitting thematically and more literally within the fabric of the narrative too, well done on getting these ideas out there, great video!
Awesome overview, it may be a few years old but new speculation is always going to be interesting for Souls series. The lore is an endlessly captivating puzzle
My hopes and dreams for a Dark Souls 4 is the concept of the Deep, i really wanted to see a Great Deep Sea area in-game, much like Ash Lake but corrupted or something. Great Video!
God, if they ever continue Dark Souls the next game needs this as the setting or the age of dark. Though, I've kinda grown to picture the age of fire as being awake. And re-linking the fist flame as drinking a five hour energy everytime you start to doze off. Which is obviously bad for the body and dark souls 3 is that person after spending 2 weeks up. What will be the consequences, I guess we have already seen a few like the dreg heap. I'm just not sure if miyazaki will show it to us as we are unconsious/asleep for the happenings of that age?
Great novel take on the deep.. never would have imagined that I would learn something new about dark souls lore after all these years. Bravo man. Earned yourself a faithful sub.
So it is not far fetched to asume that the end of fire is the true ending of Dark Souls... fire ends... darkness descends and then the world is swallowed by the great flood of the deep. Some escape into a new painting that the painter makes..but most of it is erased. And in darkness that follows all that after a time tiny flames start to dance linked to embers of lords passed, maybe from those that escaped into painting or just from general Dark Soul scattered within the deep.
To me it's the abyss but mutated. If you Farron is oolacile then the cathedral of the deep would plausibly be placed where the chasm of the abyss once to place. Maybe the water seeping down stagnated and mixed with the abyss to form a new substance. However they have to be connected to the abyss with one example being the bugs of the abyss that eat away at things in the early game being replaced with the bugs of the deep doing the same in ds3
Excellent video as always, I would be interested in a video exploring things like dark stalker kaath and Kingseeker as primordial serpents whispering corruptive lies and playing on human weakness to achieve their goals a la Adam and Eve, what ash lake represents as it’s always stuck out to me as very Norse inspired. An ancient aspect of the world that used to have far more power and relevance that has fallen to ruin and decay as its faded from living memory.
@@waltersullivan2727 Well fromsoft games have repeating themes. For example, "immortality isn't all its cracked up to be" is a theme running through all souls games (undeath isn't good etc..) but we only see it presented to us in a very public and visceral way in Sekiro where we see directly the consequences of how Immortality/Undeath takes our "humanity". (Just like how the darksign and bonfire system etc.. created by gwyn sap us of our humanity in order to keep us chained to life always slaves of "the gods".) So the idea of the Arch-trees is omni-present in fromsoft games, not just Dark Souls with Ash Lake etc.. If you look at bloodborne, there are arch-tree like objects in the hunter's dream that each appear to have ANOTHER hunters dream perched on top of them. This implies that each tree is an "Yggdrasil" for one world and one main character etc.. which explains Solaire's quote on time and world's inter-connecting. Also, Elden Ring has the Yggdrasil "erd tree" as a direct important lore factor in the game, as well as a literal location.
I thoroughly enjoy your analysis videos - you engage on a deeper level than most creators and your breadth of knowledge clarifies elements of Miyazaki’s vision that I had overlooked, making it all the more fascinating. After this video, I feel I’ve genuinely learned something new and gained a deeper appreciation of DS lore. I’d love to see more videos from you on the symbolic lore of Miyazaki’s games
There is a fair amount of symbolism and significance to bodies of water, most relevant being lakes to the deep, with shinto and general Japanese folklore.
1:30 I can tell this is going to be good already. Topic predictions: The Light/Dark and Light/Heavy dichotomies The bedrock and the shackles (tailbones in tai-chi) Edit: 3:54 - stewed like tea in this context (i.e. steeped), I do believe
Irina is frail, and among its usual meaning, it also means "liable to fall from virtue or be led into sin; not strong against temptation; weak in resolution; unchaste." Even when she entered the faith in Carim, she did so many depraved things behind closed doors even as a saint that it was considered a great treachery by those who revered her as such. Kind of like a modern pop idol who moonlighted as a AV actress. This is in-part why Eygon refers to her as 'a lost cause, beyond repair.' So Irina is an early version of Deidicar who feels guilty for all the sins she did and didn't get her skin flayed.
This is an excellent video. It really helps to clarify the concept of the Deep which, I must admit, I struggled and failed to understand prior to this video.
Oh my gosh, they seperated the ash from the lake! While the Archtrees and ashen dunes of Ash Lake rose and collided with Lost Izalith to form the new Demon Ruins, the blackened brine lake that surrounded it stayed below and ruminated, becoming the Deep at the bottom of the world.
i can kinda relate. when i know i should be doing something or am doing something i know i'm not supposed to be doing. i start feeling bad and guilty not in a "will they catch me" sort of way. just guilty with myself. and if i keep doing it i start feeling like shit as if i were literal human garbage. to me this feeling is represented in the creatures that irina felt biting at her
This was a really good insight man, I do t believer anyone else has brought this theory on what the actual Deep is and how it would come about. Keep up the great work!
Oh I shouldn't have slept on these for so long, so good! I didn't get absolutely addicted to DS like my friends, but I did enjoy the lore and storytelling. It's full of such mature and dark themes that it contrasts nicely with what I usually play (Monster Hunter). I'll give the rest of your DS videos a watch for sure, keep going!
As a fan of dark souls too i'm happy you talk about that, i think most of MH fan would like dark souls if they never played it before Hope you continu to talk about some " deep" aspect like that
Could it be that Aldrich was devouring men and gods because he wanted to sink deeper? Or maybe he wanted to become so massive that him entering the deep would raise the water level so high it would instantly bring the age of deep waters? Oh man, your theory has sparked so much imagination in me, I love it!
it would be damn interesting to see you include the prevalence of iconography in pre 20th century art. For example, wings in ancient Egyptian art aren't actually wings. They designate an ability for flight or placement in the sky, which is why we so often see wings on the sun. Similarly, weighing scales aren't scales. Scales are "judgement" and imply the wisdom or knowledge of the bearer. This is considered to be true up to very surprisingly recent periods of time, and it accounts for how often we see items in the hands or vicinity of people in classic portraiture. As i understand it (not like i'm an expert, especially, just a hobbyist), it's often attributed to the relative rarity of literacy, and is sometimes ignored in the contemporary analysis of historical art. Especially in the sort of pop history we all like to watch on tv of a weekend. Still, it beats nascar. X] Something to chew on. I liked the vid, and The Nerd Lobby appreciates all your hard work.
Everything after 0:29 in this video better be really good for me to forgive your defense of saying "begs the question" when someone really means "raises the question"!
Thanks for using the best music in the series for your video (Souls of Fire) and for keeping your voice down. You have a nice, calm, analytical approach that I appreciate greatly. Hope to see Elden Ring lore videos from you. Hilarious philosophical-rhetorical text dump at the start. Also thanks for being such a force for good on the Elden Ring PVP issue. But... what was Irina's sin... ?
Man, do you think of doing a video on what the Chaos flame represents? Also sorceries and miracles would be awesome, I agree with every point you make in these videos and I think you're right about the metaphorical meaning of it all
The idea of her soul being what is torturing her matches Neil Gaiman's description of hell from Lucifer's perspective in Sandman. He got blamed for all the tribulations happening, but the souls in hell were the ones doing it to themselves, not him.
I always assumed 'Deep' was just stagnated humanity that litteraly slipped out and became liquid, and that Aldrich predicted (or hoped) that it would eventually cover the world
Ahh so that's why Eygon says Irina would fit in amongst the oddfolk and degenerates: she's a sinner herself! And then we get to decide whether to redeem her, or make her fall D E E P E R into darkness. Neat!
Unsure how we have gone a whole video talking about abyss and the deep (waters) without mentioning Leviathan. He is Aldrich, the Devourer, after all...
I was out here wondering over and over on what the deep meant, thanks that's probably the best explanation I've found I wonder what your take on the abyss is ? You should make a video about it !
Surprised you didn't make a connection to Ash Lake. It fits the bill as a primordial ocean at the bottom of the world, an originally 'peaceful and sacred place'.
I think another interesting idea with the deep is the line in reference to dregs saying that they will become the shackles of the world. I think part of the dregs becoming shackles and the horror of the coming age of the deep is that dregs likely cannot be used for kindling. The age of the deep to me, seemed less about monsters and horrors being unleashed as it was about the fact that as more and more dregs pile up, there is less and less humanity for kindling ages of fire, and less humanity for sustaining an age of darkness. It is the final state of the world. The only true breaking of the cycle.
If you look at flood myths, I think it's really just another part of the cycle. I think Aldritch and the insects are a good hint as to what will happen during the Age of the Deep Sea: The last beings that can survive the Deep without being eaten themselves will feed off the dregs ("let the feast begin"), until nothing but Dark remain. And from there they can link the flame and begin the cycle anew. I think Aldritch is eating the Gods in order to become that Savior deity that'll bring back the Age of the Flame, he used to be a Saint of the Way of the White (or its equivalent in Dark Souls 3) after all.
I liked Ratatoskr's Demons' Souls remake video so I knew if I was going to watch anyone elaborate on this in a reputable way with no extra fluff it'd be him. (Lore essays are typically very lame and pretentious)
@@ratatoskr6324 I don't know if you've noticed but I was playing the ringed city today and I noticed in the swamp area that at the end of the cliff some of the ringed city appears to be half submerged in water. Given that ringed city is at Worlds end, perhaps enough time has passed for the deep to have risen. Perhaps the submerged area of the ringed city is because of the rising deep? We do know that the swamp is abyssal in nature so thus doesn't seem too far fetched I feel. Sorry for rambling but I just thought it was an idea u might find interesting given that your headcanon is that the deep is rising and I feel this supports that idea somewhat. Also, in midirs arena, it's often asserted that it is the place from the opening cutscene of ds1 in the caves where humans uncover fire. In those cut scenes however, there is no water in the caverns whilst in midirs arena there is clearly water dispersed around the arena. If midirs arena and the opening cutscene from ds1 are indeed the same place then perhaps this leads credence to the idea that the deep is rising. Maybe this is just me being biased tho, because I really like your theory of the deep haha.
Perhaps it's like this: An age of Ancients exists in an eternal stagnation, Then comes fire and change to bring an end to this never-ending stagnation, Fire burns long and bright but it too must come to an end, With the fading of the fire dark takes hold and an age of humanity happens, But as the sins of mankind start to add up and the their souls become heavy an age of the deep sea floods the world. So if the world was not locked into an eternal age of fire perhaps this would be the natural cycle of the world in the souls universe?
Probably holds some symbolic connections to bloodborne runes depicting seas or water in general. Or at least they could be derivative of the same inspirations?
Not necessarily convinced one way or the other, but it was interesting nonetheless. The only thing I'd say is that if you're going to talk about sin and flood as a divine punishment then it'd probably be a good idea to mention/take into account velka, since she is said to "define" sins, which can be interpreted a variety of ways including literally deciding what the nature of sin will be, although personally I think that's giving her far too much power and I'd rather interpret it as her codifying and writing down what there is to know about sin in that universe (so "define" in the descriptive rather than prescriptive sense, "to show clearly the edge of something" or "to explain and describe the meaning and exact limits of something"). I know she is a tough subject so maybe you thought it'd just be too big a topic to cover or raise without further mention in one video.
Velka is a hard thing to address haphazardly. But I do regret not mentioning her association with the cathedral of the deep. Her statues are all over the place.
@@ratatoskr6324 Yeah it would be tough. Maybe (in the future) you could make series of video on a particular topic so that even if you only reference a thing in passing you can point to another related video where this aspect of the topic is expanded upon ? Like a "sin" series, that'd cover sin itself, velka, darkmoon blades and the deep (as those all are the most relevant topics to sin) ? Anyway, we will watch your career with great interest, and I'm already impatient to see how will be your treatment of Gwyn >:)
It's interesting when you think about this in the context of what is considered a sin in dark souls. Hurting (over 10% max health, lol) or killing others when not in self defense, breaking a covenant, or displeasing a god.
The Locus Preacher very well could be telling the truth, but it’s also reasonable to think that an preaching insect from the Abyss isn’t telling the truth when talking about negative aspects of the Abyss. He’s saying the Abyss hasn’t produced gnawing insects, yet he is an insect that literally ends every statement with “let’s feast, homie”
exactly, and people seem to overlook the fact that there are many characters in the souls series that lie to you. or at least tell you their biased truth. I can say with some assurance that the locust priest in the ringed city does believe the abyss is pure. But that is his perspective. For we know the abyss also contains decay and stagnation. I like to believe that nothing in the souls series is completely good (light and fire also have bad sides, as in enslaving humanity etc).
Ahh, hello. Was it you who rung the Notification Bell of Awakening?
This video was fantastic, man....so clearly explained and well researched. Not to mention the visuals, which was such a nice touch too. Thank you for this.
I love your animations. If you liked I do have one more lore video:
th-cam.com/video/YVhMVRSiAAk/w-d-xo.html
@@ratatoskr6324 Really? Wow, thank you man! Haha already saw it and liked it. ;>
The man himself! Love everything you do
the sins of humanity weighing down its souls so much that as they sink into the sea, it rises and floods the world is such an incredible metaphor
I'm quite surprised that you didn't mentioned the Ash Lake from DSI. Cause following this line of reasoning, it fit pretty neatly into a "primeval cosmic ocean" motif.
wait, according to ds1 the world is supported by archtrees, and if the water they grow in is the same "primeval ocean" that the dregs of humanity sink into, maybe that's another reason the world keeps getting worse? Not only the stagnation of Fire but the foundations of the world is being poisoned by the dregs of Man
Yes. And as he spoke I imagined the dregs sinking below the overworld into the waters of Ash Lake, poisoning a once sacred place.
OHNYGOD, thank you for helping me understand the Locust’s dialogue in conjunction with Irina’s. To me it always seemed like he was blatantly lying, but it all makes so much more sense if we seperate the sinful nature of the deep from the purity of the Abyss. Fantastic video.
Also worth mentioning is that he becomes agitated/worked up defending the abyss, suggesting some sort of animosity between dark and deep
Fear not the dark, my friend.
And let the feast begin.
Fear not the DANK my friend
And let the MEMES begin.......
6:15 this is when i understood this guy is a cut above many others Dark Souls' lore channels, the video is really well put togheter, the images and informations keep you hooked and the explanation is simple to graps, really well done! Subscribed.
This is a pretty deep video
I wonder if the Deep could then be related to ash lake? It certainly seems to be a large primeval body of water at the bottom of the world. Could it be the earlier, mostly pure version of what would become the Deep by the time of DS3?
Hell yea thank you i didn't think of that. Head-canon updated. From ash lake to the skies of bloodborne! 👍🔥
Yeah i had the same idea, it's the only "primordial body of water" in the series
I once saw a lore video here on youtube, which implied, that the deep was connected to the DS2 protagonist arriving in the world of DS2, by Drangleic either existing inside of the Deep or the Deep being used as sort of a whormhole to get there. Because the opening cutscene of DS2 which shows this process, features a lot of similarities to the magic aldritch and his followers are using. It is quite an intruiging theory i think and a lot of good connections between ds2 and the deep of ds3 are made. If i find the video again i will update this post.
th-cam.com/video/2vR1QPKbeCU/w-d-xo.html
This is the link to the video I meant, there is also a part 2 which goes more into detail.
Best description of The Deep I've heard thus far
Great video, I love the idea that the Abyss has a purity to it. This explains how in Dark Souls 2, the Undead Crypt full of "the dark" was stated as the only way for most undead to find peace. So we know that the Dark/Abyss grants peace of sorts. And seeing how the Abyss doesn't have the putrid corruption that the Deep does is fascinating. It reminds me of previous lore videos on this subject that mention the Shinto religion of Japan having a concept known as "Kegare" which is a kind of ritual impurity associated with water, with things only able to become "kegare" by being touched by "abhorrent" things such as the Deep mentions. (corruption, filth etc..) Seems like the Abyss gets a bit of a bad wrap for no reason, perhaps the DEEP is why the Abyss corrupts people, and that if one is able to combat the Deep portion of "the dark" leaving only the Abyss then the dark is only the original description of "the deep was once peaceful" etc..
I love how you focus more on concepts and how they are applied to the setting and lore. I enjoy lore videos on characters and the plot however, this is a welcome change of pace.
Hope to see more :).
I would also add the detail that Irina is blind, implying that she sees darkness where none exist. This further expands on the point that what she percives as an engulfing darkness is something that comes from within herself. The insects that bite her are also a metaphorical representation of how the pain of guilt can sometimes feel as physical pain, like insects gnawling at your flesh. Like everything else in Dark Souls, this is also semi-metaphorical and semi-literal, because those insects from the deep are actually real. Irina represents the tragedy of not only being tormented by guilt, but also not being able to take accountability for that guilt, attributing it to some external factor that removes the responsability from herself. The Irony is that this lack of accountability for her own sins will only draw her deeper into the darkness of the deep. She is said to be a frail woman, after all.
Also, as other comments pointed out, it is weird that you didn't say anything about Ash Lake from Dark Souls 1, as it fits perfectly into your theory. Ash Lake could very well be the sacred cosmic ocean before it was corrupted, before it became the Deep.
The Deep has always confused me but holy heck this explains a LOT! As a Greek myth and mythology in general nut, the Flood myth mention put things into perspective
this video is so good, this made the deep make so much sense. and too add on the serene primordial sea it could be talking about is ash lake, which is *for the most part* at the very bottom of the world, so I'd assume that the dregs will sink to the bottom and corrupt ash lake and eventually engulf the world
I think I see now. The thing that all of the various Lord's of Cinder have in common is that they had the potential to change the world, to create a different sort of world than the present one. They all had or have the potential to remake the world in their idea of what if could be, and sometimes that is the potential to do something good, or bad. In the end it doesn't matter to the fire; the fire only wills that their potential energy be used as the fuel for its perpetuation. It's all just fuel for the fire.
The way I have always looked at it is the variations of the abyss: the Deep, the Profane Flame are versions of the abyss tainted by something else. Much in the way that you have neutral evil or pure evil, but also Chaotic evil, and Lawful Evil. I'm not saying the Abyss is evil, it's just the afterlife. but it is similar in concept.
This is a fascinating take that I think really does feel novel compared to most of what I've seen on the conceptualization of the Deep as a force or function within the Dark Souls universe. Even over the last few years of lore and speculation on the games, the Deep always felt strangely obfuscated, more ambiguous than usual. This was a really great way of elucidating upon the subject, especially in connecting with the mythological foundations that Miyazaki likely drew from, and giving meaning to the distinction between the Dark and the Deep as a vital aspect of its role within Dark Souls 3's story and its eschatological bend, orienting itself towards the apocalypse. That's exactly why this felt so fitting thematically and more literally within the fabric of the narrative too, well done on getting these ideas out there, great video!
Awesome overview, it may be a few years old but new speculation is always going to be interesting for Souls series. The lore is an endlessly captivating puzzle
Literally the only Darksouls lore videos that make any sense.
My hopes and dreams for a Dark Souls 4 is the concept of the Deep, i really wanted to see a Great Deep Sea area in-game, much like Ash Lake but corrupted or something. Great Video!
"You know who you are" flashed when you talked about human dregs.
Thought we wouldn't notice but we did ☝️
God, if they ever continue Dark Souls the next game needs this as the setting or the age of dark.
Though, I've kinda grown to picture the age of fire as being awake. And re-linking the fist flame as drinking a five hour energy everytime you start to doze off. Which is obviously bad for the body and dark souls 3 is that person after spending 2 weeks up. What will be the consequences, I guess we have already seen a few like the dreg heap.
I'm just not sure if miyazaki will show it to us as we are unconsious/asleep for the happenings of that age?
Great novel take on the deep.. never would have imagined that I would learn something new about dark souls lore after all these years. Bravo man. Earned yourself a faithful sub.
So it is not far fetched to asume that the end of fire is the true ending of Dark Souls... fire ends... darkness descends and then the world is swallowed by the great flood of the deep. Some escape into a new painting that the painter makes..but most of it is erased. And in darkness that follows all that after a time tiny flames start to dance linked to embers of lords passed, maybe from those that escaped into painting or just from general Dark Soul scattered within the deep.
To me it's the abyss but mutated. If you Farron is oolacile then the cathedral of the deep would plausibly be placed where the chasm of the abyss once to place. Maybe the water seeping down stagnated and mixed with the abyss to form a new substance. However they have to be connected to the abyss with one example being the bugs of the abyss that eat away at things in the early game being replaced with the bugs of the deep doing the same in ds3
Excellent video as always, I would be interested in a video exploring things like dark stalker kaath and Kingseeker as primordial serpents whispering corruptive lies and playing on human weakness to achieve their goals a la Adam and Eve, what ash lake represents as it’s always stuck out to me as very Norse inspired.
An ancient aspect of the world that used to have far more power and relevance that has fallen to ruin and decay as its faded from living memory.
Funny you say that about ash lake because the translated titanite slab text mentions Yggdrasil.
@@waltersullivan2727 Well fromsoft games have repeating themes. For example, "immortality isn't all its cracked up to be" is a theme running through all souls games (undeath isn't good etc..) but we only see it presented to us in a very public and visceral way in Sekiro where we see directly the consequences of how Immortality/Undeath takes our "humanity". (Just like how the darksign and bonfire system etc.. created by gwyn sap us of our humanity in order to keep us chained to life always slaves of "the gods".) So the idea of the Arch-trees is omni-present in fromsoft games, not just Dark Souls with Ash Lake etc.. If you look at bloodborne, there are arch-tree like objects in the hunter's dream that each appear to have ANOTHER hunters dream perched on top of them. This implies that each tree is an "Yggdrasil" for one world and one main character etc.. which explains Solaire's quote on time and world's inter-connecting. Also, Elden Ring has the Yggdrasil "erd tree" as a direct important lore factor in the game, as well as a literal location.
I thoroughly enjoy your analysis videos - you engage on a deeper level than most creators and your breadth of knowledge clarifies elements of Miyazaki’s vision that I had overlooked, making it all the more fascinating. After this video, I feel I’ve genuinely learned something new and gained a deeper appreciation of DS lore. I’d love to see more videos from you on the symbolic lore of Miyazaki’s games
When will you do audiobooks? Your voice is great for narrating, story telling..
Big fan!
There is a fair amount of symbolism and significance to bodies of water, most relevant being lakes to the deep, with shinto and general Japanese folklore.
Also see the many lake runes from bloodborne
1:30 I can tell this is going to be good already.
Topic predictions:
The Light/Dark and Light/Heavy dichotomies
The bedrock and the shackles (tailbones in tai-chi)
Edit: 3:54 - stewed like tea in this context (i.e. steeped), I do believe
the tail bone thing is enlightening for me, especially considering those failed dragon experience wield dragon tail bones, if I recall.
EXTREMELY GOOD. I have agonised over "the Deep" for years, and I think you've just about nailed it
Do more like these, they are fascinating and enlightening!
Irina is frail, and among its usual meaning, it also means "liable to fall from virtue or be led into sin; not strong against temptation; weak in resolution; unchaste." Even when she entered the faith in Carim, she did so many depraved things behind closed doors even as a saint that it was considered a great treachery by those who revered her as such. Kind of like a modern pop idol who moonlighted as a AV actress. This is in-part why Eygon refers to her as 'a lost cause, beyond repair.' So Irina is an early version of Deidicar who feels guilty for all the sins she did and didn't get her skin flayed.
This gives me nostalgia to early prepare to cry videos and silver mont videos
Please keep making these.
I feel validated yet criticized for that message when he said 'begs the question'. Fine you got me. Now I am obligated to press subscribe 😂
This is an excellent video. It really helps to clarify the concept of the Deep which, I must admit, I struggled and failed to understand prior to this video.
The animal analogies with video are amazing.
I know I'm late but I would love to see more of these as you find the desire to do so. Excellently articulated and structured as always
Best take on The Deep I've seen, we need more like you!!
When I read "Age of the Deep Sea", I had this terrifying vision of a drowned world. Such beautiful writing.
Oh my gosh, they seperated the ash from the lake!
While the Archtrees and ashen dunes of Ash Lake rose and collided with Lost Izalith to form the new Demon Ruins, the blackened brine lake that surrounded it stayed below and ruminated, becoming the Deep at the bottom of the world.
i can kinda relate. when i know i should be doing something or am doing something i know i'm not supposed to be doing. i start feeling bad and guilty not in a "will they catch me" sort of way. just guilty with myself. and if i keep doing it i start feeling like shit as if i were literal human garbage. to me this feeling is represented in the creatures that irina felt biting at her
I normally don't care much for Dark Souls lore videos, as I don't play the games. Your commentary makes all the difference for me.
blessings of the moon, and guidance of the sun, upon your tireless journey, my dear friend, for this land, knownsn't no flow of time.
This was a really good insight man, I do t believer anyone else has brought this theory on what the actual Deep is and how it would come about. Keep up the great work!
Oh I shouldn't have slept on these for so long, so good! I didn't get absolutely addicted to DS like my friends, but I did enjoy the lore and storytelling. It's full of such mature and dark themes that it contrasts nicely with what I usually play (Monster Hunter). I'll give the rest of your DS videos a watch for sure, keep going!
Your theories on DS lore are fresh as hell. And I thought that nothing more can be said about it.
i hope u keep making these, very nice
As a fan of dark souls too i'm happy you talk about that, i think most of MH fan would like dark souls if they never played it before
Hope you continu to talk about some " deep" aspect like that
amazong video, it makes me happy that there's still much to discuss about DS.
I like this, fresh darksouls content feels good.
Could it be that Aldrich was devouring men and gods because he wanted to sink deeper? Or maybe he wanted to become so massive that him entering the deep would raise the water level so high it would instantly bring the age of deep waters?
Oh man, your theory has sparked so much imagination in me, I love it!
it would be damn interesting to see you include the prevalence of iconography in pre 20th century art. For example, wings in ancient Egyptian art aren't actually wings. They designate an ability for flight or placement in the sky, which is why we so often see wings on the sun.
Similarly, weighing scales aren't scales. Scales are "judgement" and imply the wisdom or knowledge of the bearer. This is considered to be true up to very surprisingly recent periods of time, and it accounts for how often we see items in the hands or vicinity of people in classic portraiture.
As i understand it (not like i'm an expert, especially, just a hobbyist), it's often attributed to the relative rarity of literacy, and is sometimes ignored in the contemporary analysis of historical art. Especially in the sort of pop history we all like to watch on tv of a weekend. Still, it beats nascar. X]
Something to chew on. I liked the vid, and The Nerd Lobby appreciates all your hard work.
Woooow, thanks, that was really interesting. I love it when people find things out about DS and it sounds logical
Everything after 0:29 in this video better be really good for me to forgive your defense of saying "begs the question" when someone really means "raises the question"!
Really excellent, closer to how I envision the deep then perhaps any other video
Bro I really enjoyed the editing on this one. Keep em coming
You just blew my mind with Irina.
Thanks for using the best music in the series for your video (Souls of Fire) and for keeping your voice down. You have a nice, calm, analytical approach that I appreciate greatly. Hope to see Elden Ring lore videos from you. Hilarious philosophical-rhetorical text dump at the start.
Also thanks for being such a force for good on the Elden Ring PVP issue.
But... what was Irina's sin... ?
Man, do you think of doing a video on what the Chaos flame represents? Also sorceries and miracles would be awesome, I agree with every point you make in these videos and I think you're right about the metaphorical meaning of it all
The idea of her soul being what is torturing her matches Neil Gaiman's description of hell from Lucifer's perspective in Sandman. He got blamed for all the tribulations happening, but the souls in hell were the ones doing it to themselves, not him.
Damn,didn't expect to learn sth new about dark souls after so many years
5 years later, Finally an answer. Thank you very much
This is so sexy lore video. I was just salivating engulfing myself into this lore and your explanation
I always assumed 'Deep' was just stagnated humanity that litteraly slipped out and became liquid, and that Aldrich predicted (or hoped) that it would eventually cover the world
Ahh so that's why Eygon says Irina would fit in amongst the oddfolk and degenerates: she's a sinner herself! And then we get to decide whether to redeem her, or make her fall D E E P E R into darkness. Neat!
This makes me wanna understand this world a bit more. Never played the game but im getting tempted.. damm you XD
I'd highly recommend it! The games are challenging but really fun and intriguing.
Well I ended up watching even though I don't know much about dark souls. Good info, your research is on point as always.
Thank you.
Unsure how we have gone a whole video talking about abyss and the deep (waters) without mentioning Leviathan. He is Aldrich, the Devourer, after all...
0:30 you may be right, but that's not going to stop me from trying.
Now I demand an explanation on the Aristotelian meaning of "begging the question"
If you keep using the phrase eventually some nerd will pipe up and make sure you know.
@@ratatoskr6324 But that begs the question, will it be the right answer?
Ringed knight spear=good taste
I was out here wondering over and over on what the deep meant, thanks that's probably the best explanation I've found
I wonder what your take on the abyss is ? You should make a video about it !
This is a good object lessen. After you’ve confirmed your suspicions, no arguments, just leave.
1:55 Aged Feather, DS2
Also, Ma'at is an anagram of Atma
Fantastic work here dude, subscribed.
Could the deep have originated from the flotting of New Londo? I mean, a whole lot of humans died there, and as a sin, it is a really awful one.
I found your perspective very valuable. Here's a comment for the algorithm.
Surprised you didn't make a connection to Ash Lake. It fits the bill as a primordial ocean at the bottom of the world, an originally 'peaceful and sacred place'.
06:13 now that's an intelligent raven or crow
I think another interesting idea with the deep is the line in reference to dregs saying that they will become the shackles of the world.
I think part of the dregs becoming shackles and the horror of the coming age of the deep is that dregs likely cannot be used for kindling. The age of the deep to me, seemed less about monsters and horrors being unleashed as it was about the fact that as more and more dregs pile up, there is less and less humanity for kindling ages of fire, and less humanity for sustaining an age of darkness. It is the final state of the world.
The only true breaking of the cycle.
If you look at flood myths, I think it's really just another part of the cycle. I think Aldritch and the insects are a good hint as to what will happen during the Age of the Deep Sea: The last beings that can survive the Deep without being eaten themselves will feed off the dregs ("let the feast begin"), until nothing but Dark remain. And from there they can link the flame and begin the cycle anew.
I think Aldritch is eating the Gods in order to become that Savior deity that'll bring back the Age of the Flame, he used to be a Saint of the Way of the White (or its equivalent in Dark Souls 3) after all.
Great video really, best explanation about the deep ever!
I liked Ratatoskr's Demons' Souls remake video so I knew if I was going to watch anyone elaborate on this in a reputable way with no extra fluff it'd be him. (Lore essays are typically very lame and pretentious)
This is actually a very good video it greatlyexceeded my expectations
Yes!
@@ratatoskr6324 I don't know if you've noticed but I was playing the ringed city today and I noticed in the swamp area that at the end of the cliff some of the ringed city appears to be half submerged in water. Given that ringed city is at Worlds end, perhaps enough time has passed for the deep to have risen. Perhaps the submerged area of the ringed city is because of the rising deep? We do know that the swamp is abyssal in nature so thus doesn't seem too far fetched I feel. Sorry for rambling but I just thought it was an idea u might find interesting given that your headcanon is that the deep is rising and I feel this supports that idea somewhat. Also, in midirs arena, it's often asserted that it is the place from the opening cutscene of ds1 in the caves where humans uncover fire. In those cut scenes however, there is no water in the caverns whilst in midirs arena there is clearly water dispersed around the arena. If midirs arena and the opening cutscene from ds1 are indeed the same place then perhaps this leads credence to the idea that the deep is rising. Maybe this is just me being biased tho, because I really like your theory of the deep haha.
@@krisxchirbas9503great idea. It makes sense 👍
so basically Alrdich is Noah
It's the 2nd most interesting mystery.
Londor is the most intriguing
Perhaps it's like this: An age of Ancients exists in an eternal stagnation, Then comes fire and change to bring an end to this never-ending stagnation, Fire burns long and bright but it too must come to an end, With the fading of the fire dark takes hold and an age of humanity happens, But as the sins of mankind start to add up and the their souls become heavy an age of the deep sea floods the world. So if the world was not locked into an eternal age of fire perhaps this would be the natural cycle of the world in the souls universe?
Probably holds some symbolic connections to bloodborne runes depicting seas or water in general. Or at least they could be derivative of the same inspirations?
Came here for the monster hunter content, stayed for the dark souls content
Not necessarily convinced one way or the other, but it was interesting nonetheless.
The only thing I'd say is that if you're going to talk about sin and flood as a divine punishment then it'd probably be a good idea to mention/take into account velka, since she is said to "define" sins, which can be interpreted a variety of ways including literally deciding what the nature of sin will be, although personally I think that's giving her far too much power and I'd rather interpret it as her codifying and writing down what there is to know about sin in that universe (so "define" in the descriptive rather than prescriptive sense, "to show clearly the edge of something" or "to explain and describe the meaning and exact limits of something").
I know she is a tough subject so maybe you thought it'd just be too big a topic to cover or raise without further mention in one video.
Velka is a hard thing to address haphazardly. But I do regret not mentioning her association with the cathedral of the deep. Her statues are all over the place.
@@ratatoskr6324 Yeah it would be tough.
Maybe (in the future) you could make series of video on a particular topic so that even if you only reference a thing in passing you can point to another related video where this aspect of the topic is expanded upon ? Like a "sin" series, that'd cover sin itself, velka, darkmoon blades and the deep (as those all are the most relevant topics to sin) ?
Anyway, we will watch your career with great interest, and I'm already impatient to see how will be your treatment of Gwyn >:)
Praise the sun for more lore content like this ! Thank you for this : D
It's interesting when you think about this in the context of what is considered a sin in dark souls. Hurting (over 10% max health, lol) or killing others when not in self defense, breaking a covenant, or displeasing a god.
Do you know what Irina did to get the insects gnaw on her? Serious question. I guess she broke a covenant?
Thats definetly the correct interpentation
The Locus Preacher very well could be telling the truth, but it’s also reasonable to think that an preaching insect from the Abyss isn’t telling the truth when talking about negative aspects of the Abyss. He’s saying the Abyss hasn’t produced gnawing insects, yet he is an insect that literally ends every statement with “let’s feast, homie”
exactly, and people seem to overlook the fact that there are many characters in the souls series that lie to you. or at least tell you their biased truth. I can say with some assurance that the locust priest in the ringed city does believe the abyss is pure. But that is his perspective. For we know the abyss also contains decay and stagnation. I like to believe that nothing in the souls series is completely good (light and fire also have bad sides, as in enslaving humanity etc).
I never looked at it in such a way...
I know it’s months late, but do not forget the black lake just right of the church bonfire.
Id love a citation on sin making human souls heavy, i must have missed that
it would seem firekeepers are kin to a "grand betray" at some point of their life