I Saved A Guy $95K After A Bogus Stamped Engine Is Discovered!!!
ฝัง
- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 16 ก.ย. 2024
- 1970 SS396 El Camino was discovered at VOLO classic car sales in Illinois containing a bogus stamped engine. The car was incorrectly advertised as “Numbers Matching” and the pending purchase was stopped.
If you can afford to possibly spend almost 6 figures on a car you can afford to pay a professional inspector like this gentleman to check it out.
No one is denying that.
Im sure whoever is paying that much has a lot of fake in his life. LOL
classic car lot in my town got busted selling fakes , the lot got closed & the guy was arrested (I live near Tampa)
@@trs-80fanclub12 not at all..wealthy peoplendont get wealthy by being fooled.
You have "PoorThought".
If you can afford 6 figures on a car, who the hell cares if a paper has a wrong word on it?
Guaranteed they won’t change that “matching numbers” part of their attempt to sell this car. They will wait until a lesser educated person buys it.
No necessarily and that's why people use Patrick and sometimes the people don't even know and tell you that i just recently bought a 1970 Z28 with the 302 and they thought it was a 350
that's what they'll do,your right. sad but true.
Found the dealership and the thieving bastards are still trying to sell it as a one owner numbers matching original, Hemmings in Volo Illinois and here is their phone number (855) 943-2552. That care is at least $50,000 over priced.
Feel bad for the current owner, bet they bought it as a numbers matching vehicle. Now they're looking at a huge loss in value. Still a beautiful El Camino SS.
@@kenbeattie3967 No one bought it yet, it's still for sale on Volo Motors web site, it's like $50,000 over priced. Look up restored El Camenos, the good ones are priced in the mid 30K to low 40K range, Volo is snorting space coke if they think they're going to haul in anything close to 95K for this CLONE Car
When did Matthew McConaughey start inspecting muscle cars??!
Alright alright alright
Well, he did drive a Chevelle in Dazed and confused, lol
I was thinking the same thing!!!
I would definitely say this guy an Matt grew up within the same area. I notice the same about actor or individuals, when I hear them, I think that person grew up where this other person did etc.
It is really noticeable with British accents, as there many variations that are so specific to a certain location. - Cheers
Did you think he only representated lincoln?
Lol...bet the salesman was "grateful" for your information...
He’s probably the owner mis-representing it.
What I learned is that I'd rather have fun driving a classic car than worry about concours correctness.
EGGZACTLY!!!!
If you were buying something as an investment you want it to be what it says it is.
Yes, but a numbers matching car fetches a premium price from collectors. A driver much less.
anyone that drops 100k on a classic is not buying the thrill of it at all. Just like a painting, its a very small club of idiots. When did a "SS" become such a piece of art that it needs to be hidden behind glass, untouched, lacks the smell of Smokey rubber, the feel of the drift, the shake of the throttle. DRIVE THEM, HAMMER THEM, ENJOY WHAT THEY ARE!. A friend of mine passed recently at 88, I know he hasn't had a license since the late 80's. I forced him to drive my 2014 Camaro, do burnouts and have fun last year.. The grin was worth well more than a 95k photo. what a waste of money
95 k ? Smart move.
I had no idea Matthew McConaughey certified classic cars! Respect
You beat me to it !
Sounds exactly like him.
We got 4.11 Posi-Track out back, 750 double-pumper, Edelbrock intake, bored over 30, 11-1 pop-up pistons, turbojet 390 horsepower, we're talkin' some F'n.........muscle.
Alright alright alriiiight... :)
voice over
Its side gig for him?? 😂🤣
They still have it advertised as #’s matching, best 70 El Camino in the country. Volo Motors in Volo , Illinois
Actually it says "correct numbers" which is technically true they were just added later!
@@TractorMan104 That's not technically true at all. Maybe to a con artist it is.
@@TractorMan104 you a thief?
It is too bad we can't do this with POliticians. Because they are all crooks.
As of April 2021 it is now sold. They discribed it as:
'The matching vin #s and codes are stamped on the trans.'
-I'd have read that as 'numbers matching car' and would have been mighty pissed if I'd bought it and then seen this video. I once bought a Mini Cooper classic from an 'upmarket classics dealer' selling cars up to £1 million and that had an engine swop in it that they carefully 'negotiated' in thier discription. When I challenged them later they pointed to their exact wording which allowed for 'interpritation'.
Bravo Patrick, sad that a dealer is going to try to push a clone as the real deal................you're my hero
He doesn't say it's a clone. Just a can't authenticate the original drive train. All due to the engine stamping being re stamped. Possibly due to block being decked.
@@haroldbates7944 Everything that would truly document the car is replaced or incorrect... Dash and instrumentation is aftermarket, full interior has been replaced, brake master is incorrect, radiator is incorrect, etc,ect. I'm sure the rest of the drivetrain is suspect as well.,. That is not to say the car is a bad car, but for the asking price it is way overpriced. The brothers that run the VOLO Auto Museum are shady as well, and that is why they should have had the car authenticated prior to listing it as such.
volo cars is a great company theyre not dodgy in anyway
It probably is authentic, but since they didn't document the matching numbers before decking the block and restamping, it can't be proven any more. It's still a hell of a nice car, it's just not perfect.
@@bobmarleystoe Thanks John, you've said that on nearly every negative post. Are you working as their PR firm to do damage control?
"We got incorrect bolts here"
*Me sweating nervously at my 81 honda that has an 84 engine and a 83 front end and a 78 rear wheel and a 82 carburetor and more junkyard bolts and zip ties than you can shake a stick at*
Which you are not selling for $95,000.
Next time can you show the interaction between you and the salesman when you inform him of the faults? Please lol
There,s more LS-6 Chevelles that has came through Barrett- Jackson that were sold in 1970.
Lol
lol
LoL
Damn sure seem that way.
I think one was originally a 250 six cylinder three in tree but had SS on it..
who would pay 95 grand for a elcomino to begin with
I wouldn't pay that for an ls6 Chevelle. Crazy fools with more cash than brains
@@rickenbacker315 it is crazy insane of how much money is being demanded for cars that were built to be driven and enjoyed. Having a collection at a dealership like the one Glenn was at is one thing, but to stash these vehicles away in a building for just sitting and collecting is plain ole idol worship.
Maybe a real ls7 #s matching rotisserie. I prefer black w red interior
@@rickenbacker315 I would under two conditions....
1) I could afford it
2) It was a one of those "keepers" that came out of the GM vault !
If I'm not mistaken, They sold most of if not all the keeper/concept cars at a Florida auction when they were going broke just before the government bailout. I know for a fact one of them was a 1979 Z28 that read THREE MILES on the odom!!!
Who wants a car pu anyway ah hell no !
I could have saved him a lot more than that by telling him that no matter how much he pays for that El Camino, he isn't getting a time machine or one second of his lost youth back with it.
Numbers matching zealots aren't car guys, they are accountants.
Could save a lot of money by switching to gieco.
@@misterhipster9509 that's not exactly true. I know a guy in his 80's that is retired with a perfect all original 57 Chevy. It's 100% numbers matching. He drives it to car shows.
@@Mr.White10-65 Wonderful, I know a lot of guys too.
@@misterhipster9509 I bet you do.
Volo,yes, I've had dealings with them. Misrepresentation is a word they know well. They almost got me last July on a. Camaro. Advertised as documented body off restoration,# matching etc. Trouble was, they had no documentation,# match,and was gonna send me the car with a bad heater core, unannounced, for 50 k!!!! Bottom line, if you are serious about buying a classic, don't take there word for anything. Get a credible mechanic,or a knowledgeable appraiser to check it out. Like it said in my sales agreement,send us the money,and it's sold as is. That to me raises questions ,buyer beware!!
I've called out This Volo Museum in the past. They are fraud's
They know already its not #'s Matching,,,,,,
Ouch
I always thought Volo was way overpriced stuff mostly because it’s sold on consignment.
Sorry to learn that, thought they were legitimate. Now are just another used beatership.
they still have it online as a matching vin, what pogs (www.volocars.com/vehicles/16310/1970-chevrolet-el-camino-ss-396)
I hired an inspector in Texas to check out a Mustang represented as "never wrecked". The inspector found that it had a significant amount of bondo in the fenders.
I bet he just stuck a magnet up to the fenders and it fell right off lol.
I’m shocked they let you film this in their showroom.
They want $, buyers want inspection. Notice how nobody is around? lol they are in the back crossing their fingers
lmbo...you can't get nothing pass this man,and don't even try too because he'll catch you every time! way to go Patrick!😎
@Bob Watters Lol I know right! dude definitely knows his stuff.
@Bob Watters No kidding. I laughed when he pointed out that nano-detail.
I just want to settle something. It is one thing to swap out an engine. No fraud intended there. But to re-stamp the numbers; that is deliberate fraud. A crime has occurred. Did I get that right?
No, because it is entirely possible that IS the authentic original VIN matching engine and some mechanic or someone else previously in its life decided to be "helpful" and restamp the engine when it was faded or damaged or whatever have you. The point of VIN stamping laws was to help identify theft of parts, NOT authenticate vehicles for sale later. Up until 95 this would not be an "antique" or "classic" car, so it still needed to meet all road worthiness requirements and go through the standard market for it. And since this was a frame off restore its entirely likely that is stopped driving around then and just sat in a barn before swapping hands possibly many times with no one ever knowing about the mistake. After that it's standard fraud rules, they had no reason to think it wasn't the original engine, they are not obligated to do a full authentication process when there's no reason to think it isn't, and if they find out to the contrary (like this purchase inspector has alerted them) they are NOW obligated not to market it as a VIN matching car anymore since that would be deceptive marketing and fraud (due to the increased value of VIN matching). If they continue to try to sell it as a VIN matching car after being directly told it is not, then THAT would be the fraudulent action.
An important thing to note, this isn't a non-VIN match car because the engine is from another car or model and they're trying to slip it by, it is because the restamp has destroyed the ability to PROVE it is still that original engine, regardless of if it still is or not.
@@ThrawnFett123 would I be correct in saying that the only reason to restamp would be is if the original numbers were damaged during Machining. But if you were restoring a car as an example to make it a numbers matching car you would take steps to authenticate the process because of the potential value involve of not doing so. so somebody is either completely incompetent or this car is a fraud? I mean if I had a numbers-matching car and I knew I had the deck whatever piece which would damaged the numbers I would take steps to have that documented.
@@ryanpoloski4322 that is mostly correct, but does assume the number wasn't restamped before the restorer/number matching sellers actually got to it. It's entirely possible that someone took it to a shop 40 years ago and they had to redeck the block because it overheated or something and the mechanic being "helpful" just had them restamp it. Owner never knew or cared, sold it on, owner never knew, sold it on, etc. Then later on a buyer looks and sees it is a "number matching" car once that becomes an important thing, and then buys it to restore and sell later. There doesn't have to be a ton of incompetence or fraud involved, just someone not hiring an actual inspector to truly verify before they dumped all their money into restoring it.
does he actually show the altered VIN in this video? seems pretty pointless without it..
@@TheducksOrg The engine number isn't the VIN.
To Corvairwild. I worked at Hemmings from 2004 to 2008. I proposed a story on China junk parts then. I was black balled because money is money and most of our advertisers sold China junk. So they refused to bad mouth any China parts. I personally spend $$$$$ to buy NOS parts. As to this video, Patrick is the best. I hate scum bag dealers.
There's no reason one can't get exact copies out of China. The problem is that it takes EFFORT. If a company wants to put in the effort they could have perfect reproductions made in China or anywhere else. It takes a lot more supervisory effort and knowledge of good suppliers to get it done in China than in the USA. Have to pay one way or the other.
@@drivecam101 buying Chinese parts is like buying Ikea furniture...there is a shit-ton of work to do AFTER you buy
I read a story about 25 years ago about fake brake pads that were made from compressed cardboard in GM Delco boxes,guess where they were made.
@@gibthekid No buying parts from US companies that don't watch or care what they get from chinese suppliers means there is a shit-ton of work after you buy.
A lot of your made in the USA products have chinese made parts in them. But if they come from a decent company then they hold their chinese suppliers to account. There are US companies whose entire business is sourcing parts in China and holding those manufacturing companies to making good parts. That's because it takes effort. Buy from a company that puts in no effort you'll get garbage.
@@drivecam101 Agreed. I have a friend who had a connection to a manufacturer in China, so he sent them a part to be repro'd. The first example they sent was utter CRAP, so he rejected it and told them to start over, that he wanted it EXACTLY the same as the original sample. The second version was simply spectacular.
This 50s part hasn't been available from the original manufacturer for over 40 years. I was selling them on ebay, then ebay shut me down, stating that I was selling "counterfeit" parts. I clearly stated it was a repro part and that I wasn't trying to pass it off as genuine. Great, now no one can have this part for their old car.
Thank you Patrick ...
You just saved this guy from taking a 60 to 70 thousand dollar loss💯💪
Someone else bought it though and advert still says 'The matching vin #s and codes are stamped on the trans.'.......................
It wouldn't have been that much even though that thing isn't numbers matching its still worth 70k so he saved him about 20k not 60 or 70k. Come on he Saud its a really nice car just wasn't all numbers matching but really nice I'd still 70k all day so 20k savings
Old saying, "Don't believe anything you see, only believe half of what you hear"!
Glad you caught the scam!
You got that backwards.
"Believe Nothing You Hear, and Only Half That You See. Edgar Allan Poe
@@TheBandit7613 I thought it was, "believe half of what you see, and none of what you hear or read" .....
@@roryvonbrutt7302 naw you got it backwards
@@UBeesh10 correct....
Half of what you see, And none of what you hear or read...... good catch ‼️®™️
My dad sold an authentic car to them. I remember him trying to show them the proof and all that goes along and just how little they cared.
What's the name of shop? Or you lieing
Just checked Volvo site. This truck sold and was advertised as “correct #s”. Doesn’t say “numbers matching”, but the implication is there.
Why is this still listed on eBay and there web site, as a genuine one owner numbers matching car?????
It's Volo.
if it's on ebay you can "report this listing" and tell them ...ebay will be on the hook so they will take action
Because Volo sells non numbers matching cars as numbers matching cars out of greed for more money.
Short answer: Greed.
@@Wildstar40 That's actually fraud.
I just checked the Volvo website and it say “Correct #’s”. Caveat emptor.
Hey Patrick,
Good to see another great video from you. Keep up the good work and stay safe
Your knowledge of these cars is simply amazing.
I want to thank you for you knowledge of these fine cars. I’ve watched lots of videos and it’s a pet peeve when they say all original numbers matching and then they tell you it’s been changed to a automatic from a 4 speed. So thank you for teaching us all many different things.
If you need an expert grommet-spotter to tell you it is not as-advertised, you can conclude that 'numbers matching' is a bunch of bullshit.
I hate when advertised 'all original' , they then go on to list, painted, larger engine, changed from auto to manual, etc etc
Its like you dont understand what 'all original' means ey? My dads friend has s literally all original 1926 superior chev. Unpainted, unrestored as it left the factory and lived its life. THATS all original.
@@sugarnads who cares how it left the factory if it's got the spec you want...
@@dcan911 then dont say numbers match.
Dont LIE!
@@jquest43 for me it's like art fraud, or wine fraud, I dont have that much sympathy because the buyers are just suckers.
You saved that man some serious money , its a beautiful ride if your into elcaminos .
Whats thats knowledge worth to a man about to drop a 100k on a car ?
The gloss black under the hood is all too common
We live in a world where deceit, falsehood, and FRAUD appears on just about every level on every day! The classic car buyers get ripped off without doing their due diligence. I would hire Patrick in a heart beat if I was planning on spending serious big time money on a Chevelle. Money well spent. Keeping people honest!!
We need experts like you, thank you, Sir.
Nice work Patrick,I'm sure there are a lot more of this type of "muscle car" than we are aware of.It's guys like you that will put a stop to this.
My dad was a skilled engraver and he would peen over the serial numbers on engine blocks and other numbered components, and reproduce the unique factory style stamped serial numbers by hand.
He must have done a pretty good job as he performed this service on several "Bloomington Gold" winners, L O.L.!
It's probably really hot where he is now.
@@jungleno.
You are an effing POS pal.
He did a job he was hired for, the owner is the one that profited and the one that perpetrated the fraud.
What a nice video. Explained everything while still praising the vehicle for being beautiful. He did his job without shitting on someone else's work.
This is why pro touring these old cars have become so popular. Whomever restored this car and has ton of cash in this car by the quality of the restoration. So all the cash in effort is basically for nothing because the block does not have the original vin stamp! One thing you all should know there is very very few true original numbers matching cars. When I see a catalogue car like this with so many reproduction parts and all the options this car has I begin to doubt it even being a original SS.
My dad restored a couple cars, the one thing he told me was that you'll never get your money that you put into them back out of them, that's just the nature of the game. You restore an automobile because you want to, you have a love for the vehicle. I wouldn't buy a damn thing from that dealership, they were trying to screw over that potential buyer big time, just think of all the other people they did screw over.
right
I know a guy that did that to a '67 Corvette that he sold to a Chevy dealer in PA. He had ground off the serial number and re-stamped it with the original L88 engine number. It was a 402 CID engine instead. It took a while, but the guy got arrested and convicted for fraud.
I am quite irritated by the people who falsify data tags and body tags.
I worked for a short time with a shop that regularly did that. They felt ok with it because the restoring owner wanted it so he could pass it off as real. Its all about $$$.
Seen ALOT of those body tags played with on old muscle cars...
If it's too good of a deal to be the real thing.... It usually is
Information is power. Even negative information. If something goes against you, you want to know it. Because then you can take action and proceed accordingly. Nice work Patrick.
l live near this dealer and nothing surprises me when it to the cars they sell, it was a lot worse 20-25 years ago! Nice find by the way the would be buyer should be very thankful.
i liked dealing with volo for my charger nice people
is this hemmings a separate division of volo Auto museum or is this the volo Auto family that's been selling muscle cars and antiques for years?
@@bobmarleystoe
Better have a real knowledgeable person check it out
@@jackflackatari John didn't buy anything, he's here to do damage control for Volo, check out all his comments. 🙄
@@bobmarleystoe ya mean ur battery charger?
Great work Patrick, well done.
The poor sales people, now when they try to sell Chevelle's & see Patrick walk in to authenticate, they will be shitting themselves big time.
Not him again 😣👍
As they should.... bogus cars ruin the market
They should HIRE him to consult on their purchases. Would save them money and especially reputation in the long run.
That's a hell of a nice restoration... but they can't all be 100% factory any more. It may not be perfect, but still a very nice car. I love that Fathom Blue paint too.
It's a nice restomod sort of thing but the assholes are claiming it's actually a legit special car
@@tacomas9602 Well, this would be a "clone", since they didn't actually modify anything. It's still factory correct, just not factory original. As a '70 Chevelle, yeah it's still special, just not as special as people like to claim. Non matching numbers knocks a LOT off the value no matter how good the "restoration" is.
Being a nice car is fine then charge 25 grand for it don't try to rip people off and say that it's something that is not!
@@maxpower9848 Yeah, it's definitely not worth what they're asking.
I'm getting married soon and I'm not
sure she is a "numbers matching " girl.
My concerns...
Her rack may not be original.
Her intake manifold may have been polished.
Her exhaust seems way too large.
She pulls hard to the left.
There is a leak of some kind mid chassis.
There is an odd interior oder sometimes.
I think her mileage is much higher than she is claiming.
And I'm having difficulties authenticating her true number.
PLEASE HELP!
Correct # to her is 69
RUN!
Pulling hard to the left is a deal breaker right there!
@@InfiniteBumblebee337 lmao. If she pulled slightly to the right she'll pass inspection lmao
@@InfiniteBumblebee337 wheres ed from i love your thinking
Seems like everywhere you turn, somebody is trying to scam you. I won't buy anything from those people, ever. They possibly made a bad deal and still trying to pass it on .
I had one of those in 1988. A barn find all original with 28K miles on it. I bought it for $2500. Some carb cleaner, a new battery and some starting fluid and it fired right up. The paint was a little faded and the interior had about the amount of wear on it that one would expect for the mileage. I had it detailed, all the fluids replaced, lube job, fuel system and radiator flushed, general tune up and some new tires put on it and it ran like a champ. I was planning to take it to a place in Illinois and have them redo the paint job and interior to factory specs when I got some more money to spend on it but that didn't happen. I was coming back to Indiana from Ohio one night a few weeks later and came across a wreck on the highway with all the traffic stopped. Knowing the area I turned off on the back roads to get around the accident and as I came over a hill on a gravel road some dumbass kid had parked right in the middle of the road way out in the country with no lights on to make out with a girl. I wasn't hot rodding it either but I was going at pretty good clip on a gravel road too fast to stop in time and ended up taking the ditch. I hooked a chunk of concrete in the ditch with the bumper and flipped it upside down and backwards in the ditch pretty much totaling it. Surprisingly I was able to sell what was left of it for what I had into it but that was a real heartbreaker.
Busted somebody's bubble on this one. Thanks for sharing your knowledge.
Thank you so much for your time!! I shared this with the groups I belong to in hopes that others will use your services and knowledge before being swindled!!
Patrick is the Sherlock Holmes of GM Muscle Car inspection.
He is a walking encyclopedia of muscle car knowledge!!!!!
I have a 1970 SS Chevelle and really super sweet. I bought it in the early 80s, it had 14032 miles originally, it now has almost 20000. I have spoken to Mr. Nichols and look forward to his perusal of my car. Just for you guys, I do have the original build sheets and I paid $4500 for this car a long time ago.
The best response to "its a numbers matching car" is......"we don't care"
People who would pay $95k for a '70 El Camino care, they care very much.
The potential buyer whom commissioned this Inspector to carry out a survey and to write a report on his findings was extremely shrewd to have done so!
To have one's own knowledgeable expert examine the vehicle may tell you what the seller won't want you to know, and is an investment well worth making!
If the seller genuinely believed that his car was as he described it, perhaps he should have had it independently inspected and published the Inspection Report alongside his sales listing!
Lol Volo strikes again. Cool place to go and see, but this guy was smart sending someone to check.
I got burned by them on a trans am I bought 25 years ago . so nothing has changed
I'm so glad there are experts like this one available for buyers of classic cars to go to and avoid being taken by the unscrupulous.
Still a beautiful car, I like others here would be proud to own it and have an ear-to-ear smile cruising in it on a nice summer day to the car shows. The price just went down though.
Thanks Patrick,
Good to hear from you
Take good care of yourself
Central California Watching
Would love to see more el Camino on here. They are nice looking vehicles
They're sweet my old man had several
I had a 70 SS396 El Camino, just out of high school and loved it !!!
My dad said they were rust buckets, his cousin loves those old cars and has a 1971, but he said it seems that during that era of cars the El Cameno's were even more vulnerable to rust
@@oveidasinclair982 depends on where the car is,if it's in the Midwest,salt will kill the car
@@oveidasinclair982 Especially under the vinyl cap. My 70SS was swiss cheese under the vinyl
Money well spent from the would-be buyer to bring in Patrick first for a look. At this point, I have to ask, who created the con, the person selling the car to this dealership? Or the dealership? The dealership, if Patrick talked to them about what they have, should do the right thing and remove the numbers matching label they are trying to stick on this car. Mind you, this is a beautiful El Camino SS, but it is misrepresented as something it is not.
What I'm gathering from the video is it is possible to be the correct engine just unable to verify because of the vin stamping on the block. The original could've been machined off by decking.
See my impression was that the block had been decked in order to be able to restamp the block with the correct numbers.
I would think that if it had been decked and the result would be the loss of the stamped numbers, at the very least there would be photographic documentation to back that up.
@@dougwebb704 That's the thing, documentation before the decking was done. Aside from photographing the numbers before decking, there has to be other means of backing up the photos that is acceptable to the entire collector car industry and the buyers of these high end cars.
I could give zero shits about matching numbers, let alone paying for it.
Yup
Concourse judging is a different level of car show, the idea is not only mint AF cars but also and mostly original, original everything, from the tires to the radiator cap. No car that is 30 years old can be 100% original, you know, wiper blades and stuff have to be replaced so they judge cars on that. Is it worth it? Hell no, I'm totally with you, that game is for rich bastards and lucky son of a bitches
Yep, it's just a curiosity. I build mine to drive with good parts and a good tuneup, that's all. Might cost 25-30G on a solid Chevelle with average paint to get every thing so it would drive well and you would be proud to step out of it. Make mine a '67 SS 396. or a '63 409.
@@dirttdude
Who cares if it's original when it's alive?! I'll tell you what I've told guy's; would you be ok with all your original old parts, looking old as hell??
Glad you know your stuff, and happy you saved your customer some grief. As the prices of stuff like this continues to escalate, fakes become more prevalent.
Some one has spent a lot of time and money in that car .great video pat
Numbers matching was a thing, but it is slowly going away. The market seems to be moving towards resto-mods due to the technology. Here we are talking about an El Camino, GREAT looking car and perfect color. But a 95k paperweight? no way.
I gotta say that is the prettiest shade of blue I have ever seen!!!!!
These guys blow my mind. We deal with them regularly from time to time at our shop and they never cease to blow me away - it's the little things that stun me, like the difference in spring clamps Patrick pointed out. Any muscle car, they can pop open a hood and spot 100 things is 10 seconds.
I'd like a clone to be honest, so I could rag it.
It’s not a clone. He just can’t prove the restamp on the engine is accurate.
@@buellb0y no I'm saying that I would have a clone so I could drive and not feel guilty
Dealers don't care about this. You could've gave this diagnosis in front of the buying and selling party and the dealer would ask if they still wanted to sign paperwork
Exactly, they will admit to lying and swindling and still say” sooo, do we have a deal?”
Looks like you need to write an official letter with documentation to the Attorney General of Illinois
They're too busy worrying about multi gender bathroom violations to worry about the average person getting screwed. After 40 years of living there I finally left (thank goodness).
Good luck with that,.....everything in the Illinois government is totally corrupt.
@Temporary Account red state moment
@Temporary Account Funny cause those are the states where everyone is moving to. Also IL is controlled by Democrats just cause of Chicago. That is what makes the state suck.
@Temporary Account The left destroys everything it touches.....
Just a thought. I was doing a mechanical audit for a customer on a small chain of restaurants he wanted to buy. I was shut down half way through beacuse the owner would have direct knowledge of all the issues I found if I completed the audit and made a report. It would be unlawful for him at that point to sell the restaurants and not disclose the information. Its called "full disclosure". I wonder if the car dealership mentions that the engine "may be" original to the car, or slip that into the sales contract to avoid potential law suits. Just my .02. Great job though Patrick. Keep up the great work!!
Overheard at car show: "Hey man the edges are rounded on these hose clamps, they should be square"...
"How long have you been insane" ?
I'm guessing you don't hang out with many concours-level car judges, because things like this are very common.
@@TitoRigatoni I'm guessing you don't have a girlfriend
@@johnbennett3269 You guess correct - my wife would be pretty upset if I did
Another great video Patrick. Glad to see you saved that guy a bunch of money. I always figured that is was pretty common for people to dress up Chevelles and Camaros and El Caminos as real SS cars when they were not originally from the factory.
Not common for people to restamp the block and claim numbers matching.
He didn't day it wasn't a SS he just said it was asny numbers matching it'll say SS on title or not hard to fake that. Ding dong
$95k for a 396 El Camino that even matches sounds way too high.
Found the dealership and the thieving bastards are still trying to sell it as a one owner numbers matching original, Hemmings in Volo Illinois and here is their phone number (855) 943-2552. That care is at least $50,000 over priced.
I bet they have more than that into the beautiful restoration, even though not correct.
@@garylalim1701 Some body does, but not that dealership. When you restore an automobile, rarely do you break even and get your money out of it. That dealer doesn't have more than $25,000 in that car, look up a restored El Cameno and most high end restores are only asking in the mid $30,000 range and dealers don't pay that price.
@@oveidasinclair982 I have to agree with your statement that you rarely get your money back on restorations. I've restored many cars for customers, and almost always the cost exceeded the value of the car.
@@kennydemartini2169 its the labor costs that push the restoration cost over the actual value of the car when done.
Once again, you provide a such a valuable service. Volo should know better. I believe I saw this car or its twin last spring or summer. One of my business accounts is a block away from Jack's in South Milwaukee. The Vonzipr might be on to something
That guys a thief, he's still trying to push this car out the door for $95K, I just found the SOB on line
Detective PGN , nice work
Well they sold this car as "Numbers Matching" "BEST IN THE COUNTRY! CORRECT #S, LOADED- A/C, CONSOLE, GAUGES." Pulled this right off of their site.
Patrick Glenn Nichols "The chevelle whisperer"
My neighbour had a 1967 El Camino SS396. He drag raced with Don garlits in high school. I remember when the tow truck brought it home because he got arrested for pulling the front wheels off the ground on a city street. It's still in his family and still has a pair of garlits's old drag slicks in the box. Still with the 1968 painted bas boat flake metallic.
I'm surprised they let this guy anywhere near their car.
I have been in to classic cars my whole life. I basically grew up at rod runs. I have never understood how bent out of shape people get about "numbers matching" or how much they are willing to spend on it. I always thought it was just a cool thing like " this is the original upholstery" even when its in terrible condition. I actually heard someone say "numbers matching wipers" one time. I shit you not. I honestly couldn't tell if he was being serious or sarcastic. Grow up people, either you like the car or you don't. Also, if you can't drive it and enjoy it then why bother buying it. It's a car, not a die cast model.
Car now shows as "SOLD" on the Volo website.
Good it’s a beautiful ride
Awesome! Glad that there are people like you that still do the right thing! Great job!
Awesome Job in protecting the buyer from these vampires ......
Much respect, I'm glad that someone is looking out for the buyer an making sure their not getting ripped off
They still have this online for 95k.... Good luck! It's nice, but...
About 50 years ago, I was at a county fair in Oregon. I collected coins, and silver was still in general circulation. Made it a lot easier. Anyway, the auctioneer announced a 1916D Mercury dime for sale. This was THE key coin for any collection. They only made 411k of them, and they're scarce. I had some money, and borrowed another $20 from my dad, and came up with the winning bid of $80, for a coin, in that condition (Very Fine) easily worth ten times that. I gave them my money, and they gave me the coin. A 1916 Mercury dime, with no mint mark, worth about $5. Then the argument started. It was fraud, pure and simple. They claimed that they never said 1916D, and my dad and I clearly heard it, as did many others. Then the REAL argument started...the auctioneer said it was a learning experience for me..and my dad (former prize fighter, in the heavyweight division) wasn't having any of it. Dad got angry. When dad got angry, other people got scared. Fast. I got my $80 back, and my dad and I got kicked out of the fair.
I've asked the writers at hemmings a number of times when I see them and musclepalooza to do an article about junk China parts that seem to be on every restored car nowadays
Hemmings had an article about this many, many years ago that my grandpa told me about. But nothing in the years since. My guess is they have to tread lightly because their advertisers use "overseas suppliers " No one seems to care so why rock the boat and piss off Year One and the others keeping your lights on?
Just this week I saw a seller on eBay selling repo T3 headlights. Just like this car touts. I sent them a message asking where the lights were made. I got a response saying they didn't know, LOL!! Sure they don't. As I said below, I bet you this car is full of Chinese sourced parts, which are highly likely of inferior quality compared to originals. The numbers matching part would honestly be the lesser of my concerns with something like this.
@@Superdessucke I work for a speed shop/restoration shop and we avoid a lot of the Chinese parts. We are fortunate enough to have saved parts for 40 years, so if a customer needs a z-bar, we have one and we clean it up, blast it and re-paint it. A lot of the foreign parts have cheaper metal, they don't line up right, they don't look right and they don't last. Some of the parts get a lot of money, but you are better off with the real thing that might cost just as much or just a little more.
@@Mr.White10-65 Thanks for that Insight, you are a noble man. But how is the buyer of a restored car going to know? Are you going to pull each individual piece off and try to find Made in China labels? I would not buy a restored muscle car for this reason. I would get an all original one.
The few suppliers online who will even admit it say that they are doing it to keep the cost down to the American hobbyists. LOL! Right. 95k is really keeping costs down. They are also spitting in the face of the mostly blue-collar workforce who buys these cars.
They also say that the parts are made to their exacting standards. I don't buy that BS. I just had a Chinese sourced NAPA timing belt tensioner with only 33k on it fail on a 2002 Subaru Outback. Their stuff is mostly junk made with little oversight. I mean, do you want your son, daughter, or spouse hitting their head or chest on the Made-in-China repo steering wheel this car probably has in an accident?
@@Superdessucke a buyer would never know unless they go through the car with a fine tooth comb. You are better off getting a car that needs work and with a solid body. Take your time with it. If it takes 10 years to complete the car, so be it. When you restore the car on your own, you appreciate it more and you can say its your restoration. You'll know what's in the car. It's more feasible to spend $5,000 a year collecting original parts for your restoration than dropping $95K in one shot on something you might have to dump even more money into.
@@Superdessucke we've seen Chinese parts on older cars come in that are just inferior. Bent push rods, z-bars snapping in half, motor mounts that crack. Subaru parts are Made In Japan and I will be the first to admit that the Japanese do take pride in their products they make. You would be better off ordering the part from Subaru (if available) or finding it online and have your mechanic (or yourself) replace the part. I know sometimes people are in a pinch and need their car repaired right away, but a lot of mechanics will order the cheapest part from a parts store to deliver the part right away and get the customer out of there.
I bet this guy's kicked out of every classic car show.
Great job sir, you save people money and expose the fakes.
Great job PGN
the devils in the details they say. Your knowledge is insane. Nice work.
Remember that black on black 454 El Camino SS at the end of Two Lane Blacktop?
Not seen that movie in a very long time. Loved it.
Great work sir! I shudder to think how many fakes have been pushed off because somebody like you was not there to inspect it. Probably in the thousands.
Enjoyed the video! Way to keep em’ honest.
Great job my brother.... I don't think people realize how many " misrepresented" cars are out there regardless of make or model ..... this has been going on for a long time now......40 plus years . I personally know the existence of a 1967 camaro ss 350 powerglide hardtop very rusty but all there car got converted into a convertible in the 1980s. cowl tag was converted also. My point? there are many cars in high end collections that are not what they seem . More of these older " high end" cars will be reveealed as time goes on . Keep up the good work my brother!
That car looks familiar. If you could do a vin search on the car, and connect it back to a Jack Wojes of Franklin,Wi. AKA Jack from Jack's Autobody of South Milwaukee, then I can assure you that this car is completely fraudulent from front to back. That individual has been snookering uneducated buyers for decades. Volo Auto Museum is the location that Pat was at .I have been there a few times several years ago
Some People suck don't they....okay he may know cars what about when he goes to buy a diamond for his woman..... Would you like to get shafted in that transaction????
www.ebay.com/itm/1970-Chevrolet-El-Camino-SS-396/114677878262?hash=item1ab3558df6:g:lpUAAOSwQTxgNwy8. Notice that of all the photos taken there are no detailed chassis photos with floor pan, frame, etc. Appears there is a protect-o-plate which would denote SS. Photo of trans stamp? For me the fact that Volo wants to pass this car off as a 1 owner car with so many replacement items that really should not be solidifies the old adage that car salesmen are snakes. Also I stand behind my statement that the brothers running the operation are involved in shady dealings. They were preaching collector car investment tax shelters 20 years ago.
P>T> Barnum said it the best "There is a sucker born every minute!" and frankly the dealership WILL sell this car again as a "numbers matching" no matter WHO looks at it sadly enough said!!
You’re providing a valuable service. With the escalating value of these cars and the number of people with so much cash today there are going to be a lot of misrepresented 60s and 70s muscle cars.
Trying to find a 50 year car with stock radiator and water pump would be hard, back when these were just cars we ragged them out and moved on. Very few people decked an engine to get more hp, most added cam, bigger carb, headers and let it go at that.
My dad was a very skilled hand engraver and he would reproduce the unique G.M. serial numbers on engine blocks etc.
The way he would do this is by "peening" over the serial number, sort of like moving the iron like a wave washing over the numbers.
He would then flatten and smooth the surface and reproduce the numbers by hand using simple engravers punches and chisels.
He would do this to the lightweight aluminum coolant catch tanks as well.
I always wondered why a numbers matching tank that still existed in pristine condition never raised any red flags, but it didn't.
Pop's did this to a couple of "Bloomington Gold" winners for a stinking $100 a pop.
I always felt that he should charge a point or two of the selling price of the car because of the value of that award.
@@fubartotale3389 heating the block and peening with a ball peen hammer would flatten out the old numbers but sanding and applying acid brought them back good enough to read.
@@jaywalker712
He didn't heat the block, it was all done cold.
He would use a hardened punch with a radiused face and move the material adjacent like a rolling pin moves dough.
I know tha acid will expose the numbers if they have been ground off because the material underneath has been compressed.
I would think the whole area would be compressed using his technique.
Anyway, my thought was the judges must know that you're cheating, but they reward you for doing it well!
It very well could be a regular El Camino that was converted to an SS. The hood looked to be a Chinese repop. The lettering on the new dash is also thinner. Factory was thicker lettering. This car not worth the money.
Why would anyone put that much work into a car without all the correct parts ? Probably banking on Patrick not being there to catch them….
Very nice job calling it all out sir! It pisses me off that people rip off others like that or TRY to in this case. Saved your client some duckets.
Lots of labor, lots of time, lots of money spent to fix this baby up. End of the day you are 100% correct not a numbers matching vehicle, but great car.
Another good video Its great that your out there too authentic these cars these dealers advertise these cars all the time as numbers matching let’s face it a lot off these cars didn’t make it out off the 70s with the original drivetrain in tack especially the more common ones like Chevelle and GTO unless they were maintained and cared for. Well 👍
My opinion is that anyone that can throw away that kind of money for nonsense like this can afford to be taken for a ride. Years ago my friends uncle owned a junk yard and could make you anything you wanted