As indonesian i just encountered this video randomly, thank you ivana and jay chen for doing this interview. I am glad ivana can be honest and polite as good representative of indonesian there.
As a taiwanese who are currently working abroad now, i am 100% agree with what this lady just said. It is so fucked up to look down those asian workers and it not gonna make yourself better. We are all trapped in a sick labor market.
I'm not surprised. Even we Asians, think each other like this. I'm from South East Asia. But, I do love East Asian culture more than South East Asian culture.
These stereotypes thing in Taiwan is not as bad comparing to Hongkong, i think Hongkongers ,especially the older generations are very racist, they even look down on their own people from the mainland, who…30 years ago were mostly poor , backward commie infected mind immigrants. Now many mainland immigrants are bright businesses, well educated people (western education too), but still receiving resentment because of their behavior, conservative, old fashion, out dated culture…
It's just a common/stereotyping thinking. Because as Singaporean, I understand what's she's talking about. For Singaporeans, when we are talking to some Filipinos or Indonesians, we will also assumed that they are coming here to be healthcare workers such as nurses or helpers to elderly but it's totally wrong concept. Some of them can be doctors, engineers or even singers. I remember there's a family who came to Singapore to work as pub/club singers too (the whole family). So it's humans who always love to assume what are unknown to us.
In Europe and US it is the Indonesian who protect Chinese (east Asian) people. For example there are 2 million Indonesian in Netherlands and also strong INDOS community in US and Australia, Switzerland and remember Indonesian has 35 million Christians in Indonesia and 5 million Christians Overseas. THE INDONESIAN SPREAD ALL AROUND THE WORLD TOO.. ASIAN MOST MIXED WITH EUROPEAN.
I worked in a chinese restaurant for a year and if my boss wasnt a 5 ft tiny lady i prolly wouldve knocked her out😂 They can be so disrespectful and its a global phenomenon. Everywhere they go theyre always facing some kind of backlash
I like this girl. She is being polite, respectful and ,most important of all, candid. We do need more quality interviews like this, so we can know the pros and cons of our society and education system. Sometimes I'm really fed up of complimentary video talking about how nice the people are and how great the healthcare system is. I know all that and I feel blessed to have all those benefits. I am deeply grateful to those who silently contribute to these good things behind the scenes. However, if a society is to constantly progress, it must be willing to acknowledge dissenting voices and examine its own shortcomings.😀
Hi Polly! Thankyouu for the nice words 🥹☀️ i do love taiwan but no place is perfect and so is my home indonesia and probably every other dream countries🥹🥹🥹 I hope this humble opinions of mine and Jay’s platform can be some help in the future☀️☀️☀️
嗨Jack! 謝謝你願意分享（不是說很美好）的經驗🥹😅☀️ 但你說的每一點我非常認同而且都有經歷過😅 真的是辛苦了🥹☀️ 我覺得我們就當個退一步的人，很常時候其實很清楚被這樣對待跟講話是非常不喜歡且覺得對方很沒禮貌、但就包容他們的好奇心還有無惡意來跟他們解釋還要嘻嘻哈哈配合對方🙃 可是我只是想跟你說，your feelings are VERY valid!! Yes, what they said are mean and rude sometimes and IT IS NOT OKAY AT ALL!! Don’t let those mean comments get you to think like “沒差反正習慣了”，因為我們這些無奈行為就讓對方覺得這樣對其他人說是正常的，但並沒有！ 我覺得我們要讓這「只是開玩笑你幹嘛走心」的文化慢慢去改變，因為這些行為不會讓他們看起來很幽默但只是沒禮貌還有很幼稚😊
WOW 沒想到本人回覆我拉 感謝妳！ 我同意你說的，大部分當我知道對方不是以惡意、歧視為出發點的時候，我都會退一步並包容，不會有太多感受。 只是常常我在想，我在台灣出生都還是被很多人這樣無意識地對待... 那當我是真正的外國人時，那種無法融入，總是覺得自己無法被真正的接受，那種感覺一定是很差的。 我也要跟妳說聲辛苦啦！ Meantime, I agree that you said it is totally not ok at all. I do think all of us need to have more self-awareness when facing a different culture or people. 所以，我覺得大家能做的，其實最簡單的就是「一視同仁」，對任何人都不要有「特別」好、壞的待遇，就把他們當生活在同一塊土地的人接納，這樣其實就很棒了！
Wah, Ivana, bagus banget cara penyampaiannya . Jadi tahu bagaimana cara pandang sebagian besar orang Taiwan thd orang - orang dari SEA. All the best to you Ivana.
Saya sebagai suku Tionghoa Indonesia.saya lebih suka di Indonesia negara sendiri.setiap hari bertegur sapa senyum ramah dan saling lambaikan tangan.budaya seperti ini hanya ada di Indonesia, Malaysia dan Filipina
i don’t think so on malaysia, i heard they excluded themself from the society, and i heard the indian descendants do this too. the chinese and indian descendants there don’t even speaks malay properly. i’m really glad that everyone in indonesia no matter if it’s indigenous ethnicities or descendants of foreign ethnicities still proud to speak bahasa indonesia, because it will be a chaos to speak on our own ethnic language for a country with 1.340 ethnicities not even counting the numerous of foreign descendants ethnicities that proud to be indonesian.
Let me just say.. Chinese Indonesian isn't the labor workers you see doing construction work. They control a big part of Indonesia's economy or often sitting in the upper class society there. This girl fits far better with the abc in US/Canada than in an introverted society like most young people in Taiwan. I bet the girl's parents wanted her to learn the traditional Chinese culture and her roots which is why Taiwan is being chosen
Penduduk asli taiwan adalah bangsa austronesian yang menyebar di banyak negara asia tenggara seperti indonesia filipina malaysia. Rumpun bahasa mereka juga mirip misalnya: 1 satu / esa 2 dua / dawala 3 tiga / telo 4 empat / ampat 5 lima / limo 6 enam / anim 7 tujuh / pito 8 delapan / wali 9 sembilan / salawa 10 sepuluh / siplo
as an Indonesian living in Taiwan for the past 1 year, I can totally relate to this!!! Taiwanese are generally very nice, they just lack of knowledge of diversity and global environment
Okay a couple things, 1. If you have a chance to do a second video with her I'd love to know what she didn't like about Taiwan's education system and what she thinks needs to be done for it to improve 2. I'm curious if she and her family speaks Hokkien? I think the main Chinese people who went to Indonesia were Hokkien speakers so I wonder if her family speaks more Mandarin or Hokkien
Hi Daniel! In my humble opinion lol *since a lot of people are very pressed on the comments about the education system i mentioned* 😅, my major is communication, I don’t know much about other majors though. When i was in undergrad, i had most classes in lecture styles, and not much interaction between students and professors. Even in small group discussions, almost everyone is very quiet it felt like everyone is just reluctant or afraid to voice out their opinions, which honestly I’m nervous too when i voiced out my opinion on Jay’s video. It feels like we only seek for the correct answers when most of the time its not required to always have *the correct answer*. To be honest, i didn’t learn much in undergrad, but the one thing i learned was how to socialize and build a friendship while trying to survive in a completely different environment and culture! I think the things we all can improve is being respectful to everyone, when in class or outside class, building a safe environment and space for students to voice out their opinions without the fear of being judged would help a lot rather than just having a one way teaching style and passive interaction. And yes we speak mostly in hokkien😆 but we don’t really speak mandarin, even my dad cant speak a single chinese because there was a period of time when Mandarin is completely restricted by the government. I hope these clarified some of the misunderstandings on the video, thankyou for being very respectful! ☺️☀️
@@ivana_tania Thanks for responding Ivana! What you said is something I've been hearing a lot about the Taiwanese education culture actually (I've never studied in Taiwan, I was born and raised in Canada). I hope they improve on that. Would it be fair to say that your and your family is more fluent in hokkien than in Mandarin?
@@danzwku yes! I would say even some professors are sometimes a little bit stubborn and won’t let students explore more🥹😅 but i hope this education system and culture will improve in the future☀️ Yes! But even our hokkien is more diverse hahaha a lot of mixture of Hokkien, Indonesian, and English!😅😅😅
@@ivana_tania I was in high school when I learned that what we called "Taiwanese" wasn't inclusive to Taiwan lol and that they spoke it in many other countries like Indonesia, Singapore, Malaysia, and even the Philippines. So really we should call it Taiwanese Hokkien because its our own way of speaking it, but since it became the dominant language here for a few hundred years it just became known as Taiwanese ha. I was very happy to have met a Chinese Indonesian a few years ago who would later become my best friend.
Indonesia adalah bahasa kedua yg dipelajari setiap orang Indonesia, ini adalah bahasa yang menyatukan kami semua, tapi bahasa pertama adalah bahasa sesuai suku / bangsa kami sendiri.
Mudah2an utk semua orang indonesia yg belajar di Luar Negri ataupun yg bekerja apapun kerjaannya, sukses dan yg terpenting pandanglah kejujuran sebagai kasta kesuksesan yg paling tinggi
Thanks for the Southeast Asian videos, wonder if you'll manage to interview a Thai person there as well, interested to hear their perspective and what to know what image Taiwanese have of Thai people especially with the semi-recent drama of a Taiwanese actress being extorted for money.
I love to see the interviews to the Thais in Taiwan. One thing I notice actually is that there are significant number of people out there even seem hard to distinguish between Thailand and Taiwan as nations and sometimes they mix them up, lol.
@@sino-tibeto-myanmar Yes haha, but not prevalent in Taiwan. I just know that there's a lot of Thais studying and holidaying in Taiwan and I plan to go once I get some more money saved.
Not best indeed, but National Taiwan University is one of the top universities in Asia Pacific that is quite amazing to me, which such thing are dominated by Japan & South Korea usually.
I think Taiwan has taken different approach to tertiary education, but that doesn‘t mean its bad.😁 With only 23 million people and the ability to build warships, Fighter Jets and missiles and defend Taiwan on its own. I don‘t think Taiwanese are weak. And with ability to produce an army of engineers to produced the best semi-conductor in the world. Taiwanese education can not be that bad. And Yes, I am a Taiwanese.
i’m really glad that recently the indonesian president gradually reduces the permit to work outside indonesia as the blue collars like factory worker, healthcare worker, construction worker, or even maid every year as indonesia is currently rapidly growing into industrial country with rapidly growing GDP. there are tons of smelters and factories built in indonesia in just a decade and it’s a good thing for the government to bans on assembled import of vehicles and electronics device and bans on raw minerals export to grows local industry and maintain the national dignity so that we can’t be seen as low class people by those ignorant foreigners. and i also heard vietnam do this too. great hope for southeast asian countries, mostly for indonesian, vietnamese, thai, and filipino! for msian and sporean i’m really glad that you already maintaining your economy better than most southeast asian countries! viva southeast asian countries!
I assume Ivana's mother tongue is not Indonesian but probably Hakka, Hokkien, Teochow, or Cantonese, but she tried to speak rusty Indonesian and then ended up a bit awkward...that is funny, too; besides, I guess she had been exposed to English environment a lot, maybe in school, before she came to Taiwan. That is why she speaks fluent English with sort of American accent.
absolutely, she is Chinese Indonesian as we can see that in the beginning of video. I have several Chinese Indonesian friends as well. Most of them have sick local accents however, Ivana does not.
Hey Yen! I appreciate your kind comments a lot!!🥹 Yes i do speak more Hokkien back at home which resulting in my very rusty indonesian🥲 but I’m currently working on it too 💪🏼 My english is still not as great but it’s all (mainly) thanks to watching lots of TH-cam videos and English songs haha 😂🫶🏼
@@ivana_tania very cool, since you speak Hokkien, it helps you settle in Taiwan more or less. By the way, I like the way you rolled in the interview :)
1:12 i beg to disagree I've been living and working here in Taiwan for almost 10 years now and i barely speak Chinese 😂😅 .... But i appreciate her honesty regarding Taiwanese educational system 🤭🤔
Hey Aya! I completely understand your opinion too! Probably its because I was here for undergrad and all of my lectures and classes were in chinese only so i had to really adapt with the whole language! But I’m happy you’re enjoying your life here!! xx
Nope, it’s to do with our (mainly media) exposure. We are exposed to American shows and music very early on here. Often even more than our own media. Even those who study at a British or Australian international school here rarely/never develop those accents unless they’re purposefully trying. The teachers they employ aren’t strictly from the commonwealth. Our alphabet is inherited from the Dutch alphabet. Which is similar to the English alphabet, but different. This is all middle upper and upper class Indonesian in general and not limited to/influenced by ethnic background more than it is social class. I have to say this too now that I’ve brought up social class and since it’s a stereotype; not all Chinese Indonesians are rich, nor are all rich Indonesians of Chinese descent. There are many wealthy non-Chinese Indonesians, especially of political background. What ethnic background may do is influence overseas destinations for study, work, or vacation. Resulting in skewed exposure of specific Indonesian demographics. For example, sometimes Chinese Indonesians might pick up a Singapore-esque accent due from exposure (Singaporean friends, family, media, education). On the other hand, Indonesians in the Netherlands are much more likely to be of Eurasian and Pribumi (indigenous) descent. Particularly Moluccan and Javanese (particular ethnic groups).
lol! it's also happened to me, i can't even speak my mother language fluently after using different language for 4 years non-stop, only using my native language for chatting but not that often, sad to hear, but that's the truth for trilingual or maybe the polyglot godness
These stereotypes that these Taiwanese Chinese have on Southeast Asian people are sort of funny considering the island they live on was first inhabited by the same class of people they look down on, the Austronesian aborigines
7:09 Yes, you are right, and I totally agree with you; we have a trashy education system here in Taiwan. It also depends on the uni or college, but in general, you are mostly right. 8:35 結果她中文爆炸好 😄
I wonder if Ivana and other Chinese Indonesians speak putonghua or other Chinese dialects at home already? Also what did they study at university? A thumbs up to studying in a Chinese language at the tertiary level 👍
I will answer this from my perspective as an Indonesian born Chinese. It depends on the location or city where you live. In my place (i live in East Kalimantan), the elders are able to speak Mandarin and some dialects (mostly Cantonese and Hakka). But my generation is only know a little bit Mandarin. For daily, we use Indonesian to communicate. As well for the university.
I'll add that it also depends on the generations and locations too. For people who attended schools until mid 1960s, especially outside the island of Java, they probably still have schools that strictly use putonghua as the main language. But after 1966 Chinese culture was basically banned until the end of Suharto's era. Only after Gus Dur's era in 1999 we finally have the ban lifted and consequently Mandarin class as extracurricular class is no longer illegal. I only started to learn Mandarin formally (just a little bit) at that point. And as for my nephew who was born in the 2000s, his parents could send him to school whose classes were delivered in Mandarin. He spoke better putonghua than me and currently studying for his undergrad in Taiwan 🙂
Adding another perspective as an IBC in Jakarta most Chindos here (and on java island) don’t speak chinese or hokkien. Instead most opt to learn english (same goes for me). And you might notice their name doesn’t sound chinese and thats because Soeharto banned chinese culture during his reign (yeah he f*cked us up real good, gotta give him that) but they sneak in their chinese name right beneath their Indonesian legal name. For example my family legal name is “tenggara” but the real name is Teng. Many esp the older generation are still having PTSD. For example my father said he hates and mocks chinese culture name but when I asked why, he didn’t want to talk about it. But i can see right through his eyes it has nothing to do with hate but more about past trauma.
Hi, im gonna put another perspective from another city i live in. I am born and raised in Pekanbaru (capital city of Riau Province). My parents moved from their hometown, Medan (capital city of Sumatra Utara [North Sumatra] Province) to Pekanbaru few years before i was born. Hence, at home, i usually speak Medan dialect hokkien with my parents although i mix it with indonesian words since im not fluent at it. But Medan hokkien by itself has already borrowed a lot of indonesian words. Medan hokkien is used as lingua franca for medan chinese people despite their own language (such as hakka, teochew, cantonese). I have one friend who was born and raised in Medan of hakka descent and speak fluent hakka language with his family. He also speaks hokkien fluently when communicating with other medan chinese. And somehow he can also speak mandarin since he also learn it at school maybe. Same case with my mom, she speaks cantonese with her father since her grandfather directly sailed from China itself. But she can also speak medan hokkien. Although sadly i can't speak cantonese cause our family only speak hokkien at home. Yes, my father is hokkien descent. Funfact, medan hokkien is different from hokkien in riau although i can understand some words and the context tho. But i heard that there are a lot of varieties in riau hokkien since riau provinces is quite huge cmiiw. At school, obviously i speak indonesian since indonesian is our official language. Even if my classmates in chinese indonesian, i still speak indonesian to them cause i can't understand if they speak their hokkien dialect to me. I can't speak mandarin cause even my family cant speak mandarin and i've never learned it like in a proper way. Which is my goal right now to be able to read and speak mandarin fluently. Wish me luck🥰
Agree 💯 with that Indo girl.. even Mainland China (PRC) has more better attitude towards Chinese overseas and other Asians rather than Taiwanese itself.
This is actually a shocker to me. Seriously. I probably get this bias from politic, I always thought that Taiwanese would have better attitude since, you know, they have much more "freedom" and all. Well, I guess it's in our nature to discriminate those who are different to us. Lol
in my country it is truly individualistic, in fact we have been neighbors for almost 20 years, we don't know the names of their children, we don't know that their parents have died, when I went on holiday to Bali I was really shocked, here you are required to socialize , I was shocked but finally I knew the benefits of socializing, you will not feel alone whether you are happy or sad, when I was sick in Bali, when I was being cared for, many of my neighbors were local Balinese people who came to visit carrying fruit, believe me this was the sweetest thing I've ever seen. I felt that when I lived in my home country for 20 years, please throw away the stereotypes about Southeast Asia, believe me if you know and know them, they are one of the people with a high level of caring
Seriously, the Thai students, who I am studying with, are all from big cities like Bangkok and well-off families. Also, among Indonesian students that I know, one girl's dad owns 2 businesses, another one owns a business herself back in Indonesia. In addition, maybe because I study in Taipei, most of Taiwanese students that I study with speak good English. I feel like you can still survive without learning Mandarin if you live in Taipei. However, it is still important to acquire the language if you want to stay here long-term.
I am Indonesian and I am quite surprised and very disappointed, Indonesian people are discriminated against in Taiwan,In global politics, Taiwan needs the support of other countries, Indonesia is one of the countries to be reckoned with in the international world,Indonesia's role in international politics is quite influential and is a big player,Indonesia can compete with the United States, Russia and even China,Only the Indonesian leader dared to come to Russia and to Ukraine for peaceful discussions for the Russian and Ukrainian war,I think that if this kind of discrimination occurs in the long term, no country will ever respect Taiwan in global politics.thanks you
They are not discriminated against, but they are seen as a certain group. There are stereotypes thinking about them by Taiwanese, not discriminated against.
Fun fact, they looking down Indonesiam hard worker but we found many Taiwan ppl working hard in the west 😂 even they have bad exp compared to Indonesian who also work there.
In Europe and 🇺🇸 it is the Indonesian who protect Chinese (east Asian) people. For example there are 2 million Indonesian in Netherlands and also strong INDOS community in US and Australia, Switzerland and remember Indonesian has 35 million Christians in Indonesia and 5 million Christians Overseas. THE INDONESIAN SPREAD ALL AROUND THE WORLD TOO.. ASIAN MOST MIXED WITH EUROPEAN.
Don’t expect to survive in any country when you don’t know the local language … that’s the number one rule when you try to go abroad… learn the local language.
saya orang indonesia di indonesia juga ada rasis terhadap orang china, di sebabkan kenapa? karena kebanyakan dari mereka rasis terhadap penduduk asli, walaupun tidak semuanya,
Sekarang harusnya udh gk boleh rasis lagi, soalnya Sama-Sama WNI 🙂 Toh, Harto Juga udh gk ada. Jadi gk ada alasan lagi Tapi Rasisnya Orang Indonesia itu pindahnya Ke Asia Selatan ( Prindavan cs) 🤭
well, kinda same here, not a lot of people know about taiwan, if there's a person with small eyes and yellow skin, we're just gonna assume they were from chinese, japan or korea, and i bet most of them couldn't even speak clear english, it's happened everywhere, western people discriminate asian, asian people just gonna discriminate another asian.. not so surprising tho, we all live in a society where the majority is the ruled...
Ivana Instagram : instagram.com/ivana_tania/
是否可討論關於黑人自己都會害怕黑人，如此還能說白人黃人真的具有歧視？
As indonesian i just encountered this video randomly, thank you ivana and jay chen for doing this interview. I am glad ivana can be honest and polite as good representative of indonesian there.
My pleasure
Love this video
這位受訪者蠻有趣的，也很勇於發表自己真實的看法而且也不官腔，談吐很流利，英文更是講得非常流暢，希望有機會能再看到這位受訪者的受訪內容
勇於發表不官腔是最可貴的特質
這個女孩很帶種，講真話但很客氣，在台灣讀大學好像學不到太多東西，是真的。但學到如何社交如何獨立生活也不算太壞啦！😂
而且從她說的，台灣人對於東南亞國家普遍的刻板印象經過了這幾年似乎沒有多大改變，這點其實透露出很多台灣人有的特質就是只專注在自己的世界，不太在意不太關注除了自己以外的世界。這真的蠻糟糕的，還是期待我們可以更進步，更關注於我們以外的世界吧❤
很帶種但很客氣 你形容的真好😂
很多國民黨的支持者毫無國際觀，就是不暸解美中對抗的國際情勢
看哪所大學及什麼科系吧！
學店學不到東西很正常吧
因為少子化，為了生存學校不敢得罪學生，所以每學期末學生也可以對老師打分數，老師若太認真，教學太難或是給學生太多作業，導致學生被當或畢不了業，老師就被學生列為 "不喜歡"，"不喜歡" 的老師可能會被學校開除。
As a taiwanese who are currently working abroad now, i am 100% agree with what this lady just said. It is so fucked up to look down those asian workers and it not gonna make yourself better. We are all trapped in a sick labor market.
I'm not surprised. Even we Asians, think each other like this. I'm from South East Asia. But, I do love East Asian culture more than South East Asian culture.
These stereotypes thing in Taiwan is not as bad comparing to Hongkong, i think Hongkongers ,especially the older generations are very racist, they even look down on their own people from the mainland, who…30 years ago were mostly poor , backward commie infected mind immigrants. Now many mainland immigrants are bright businesses, well educated people (western education too), but still receiving resentment because of their behavior, conservative, old fashion, out dated culture…
It's just a common/stereotyping thinking. Because as Singaporean, I understand what's she's talking about. For Singaporeans, when we are talking to some Filipinos or Indonesians, we will also assumed that they are coming here to be healthcare workers such as nurses or helpers to elderly but it's totally wrong concept. Some of them can be doctors, engineers or even singers. I remember there's a family who came to Singapore to work as pub/club singers too (the whole family). So it's humans who always love to assume what are unknown to us.
In Europe and US it is the Indonesian who protect Chinese (east Asian) people. For example there are 2 million Indonesian in Netherlands and also strong INDOS community in US and Australia, Switzerland and remember Indonesian has 35 million Christians in Indonesia and 5 million Christians Overseas.
THE INDONESIAN SPREAD ALL AROUND THE WORLD TOO.. ASIAN MOST MIXED WITH EUROPEAN.
I worked in a chinese restaurant for a year and if my boss wasnt a 5 ft tiny lady i prolly wouldve knocked her out😂 They can be so disrespectful and its a global phenomenon. Everywhere they go theyre always facing some kind of backlash
This girl is so open-minded and humble ❤
Hope she can get the degree and do her dream job!
I like this girl. She is being polite, respectful and ,most important of all, candid.
We do need more quality interviews like this, so we can know the pros and cons of our society and education system.
Sometimes I'm really fed up of complimentary video talking about how nice the people are and how great the healthcare system is. I know all that and I feel blessed to have all those benefits. I am deeply grateful to those who silently contribute to these good things behind the scenes.
However, if a society is to constantly progress, it must be willing to acknowledge dissenting voices and examine its own shortcomings.😀
Hi Polly! Thankyouu for the nice words 🥹☀️ i do love taiwan but no place is perfect and so is my home indonesia and probably every other dream countries🥹🥹🥹
I hope this humble opinions of mine and Jay’s platform can be some help in the future☀️☀️☀️
身為一個爸爸為印尼華僑的土生土長台灣人 我還真的覺得台灣大部分人無知單純到哭笑不得的境界 就說說我小時候的經歷好了 當我介紹自己的時候常常發現：
1. 大部分同學聽到華僑，會以為你是外國人來到台灣，而不是華人在國外生活的意思
2. 很多人搞不清楚印尼跟印度差別在哪，搞得我還得翻世界地圖給他們看
3. 膚色，難怪你比較黑這種話我已經聽習慣了XDD 不過我爸媽都很白 但我膚色其實是小時候狂曬太陽弄出來的
4. 或開玩笑說我在工地工作 叫我阿勞 當然我沒有很在意 因為我不是真的外籍勞工 所以對我來說沒這麼有殺傷力
還有很多，不過我同意這位女孩說的，大部分人真的沒有帶有惡意，反而都只是因為無知又好奇，不懂說話的界線而說了那些話。但這也不是一直能保持下去的傳統，真的應該要更有國際觀一點，不然永遠都會被說好像是井底之蛙一樣。
嗨Jack! 謝謝你願意分享（不是說很美好）的經驗🥹😅☀️
但你說的每一點我非常認同而且都有經歷過😅 真的是辛苦了🥹☀️
我覺得我們就當個退一步的人，很常時候其實很清楚被這樣對待跟講話是非常不喜歡且覺得對方很沒禮貌、但就包容他們的好奇心還有無惡意來跟他們解釋還要嘻嘻哈哈配合對方🙃
可是我只是想跟你說，your feelings are VERY valid!! Yes, what they said are mean and rude sometimes and IT IS NOT OKAY AT ALL!! Don’t let those mean comments get you to think like “沒差反正習慣了”，因為我們這些無奈行為就讓對方覺得這樣對其他人說是正常的，但並沒有！
我覺得我們要讓這「只是開玩笑你幹嘛走心」的文化慢慢去改變，因為這些行為不會讓他們看起來很幽默但只是沒禮貌還有很幼稚😊
WOW 沒想到本人回覆我拉 感謝妳！
我同意你說的，大部分當我知道對方不是以惡意、歧視為出發點的時候，我都會退一步並包容，不會有太多感受。
只是常常我在想，我在台灣出生都還是被很多人這樣無意識地對待... 那當我是真正的外國人時，那種無法融入，總是覺得自己無法被真正的接受，那種感覺一定是很差的。
我也要跟妳說聲辛苦啦！
Meantime, I agree that you said it is totally not ok at all. I do think all of us need to have more self-awareness when facing a different culture or people.
所以，我覺得大家能做的，其實最簡單的就是「一視同仁」，對任何人都不要有「特別」好、壞的待遇，就把他們當生活在同一塊土地的人接納，這樣其實就很棒了！
對世界、歷史無知的人，不管在哪一個國家，都是多數。
我不是要為台灣人辯護，而是，這是現狀。
不過，印尼華人或華僑這個問題，由於現在的高中歷史教科書中有不少的篇幅在談這個主題，所以對此無知的人，將來會少一點
至於，對稍微深膚色人的態度，東亞區大概都差不多，這也是歷史造成的...
刻板印象不是太好，但刻板印象也是人類生存演化出來的能力，確實該改變，但不容易。
1，2點可能在30年前會發生，我很好奇你認識的人都是那個圈子的？為什麼集合了我從來沒遇過的這麼沒有常識的人^_^
搞不清楚印尼跟印度會不會太誇張了？除非教育程度較低的，若台灣大部分都無知單純到這程度，台灣不可能成為科技和貿易大國的，不過天龍國人連對台灣中南部人都心存歧視，很多人每年都到日本等國玩，却對台灣中南部很陌生，可能一輩子沒去過幾次，所以也不是只針對東南亞人的
Wah, Ivana, bagus banget cara penyampaiannya . Jadi tahu bagaimana cara pandang sebagian besar orang Taiwan thd orang - orang dari SEA. All the best to you Ivana.
Saya sebagai suku Tionghoa Indonesia.saya lebih suka di Indonesia negara sendiri.setiap hari bertegur sapa senyum ramah dan saling lambaikan tangan.budaya seperti ini hanya ada di Indonesia, Malaysia dan Filipina
Not in Malaysia, they ignored Chinese people
@@panurotomangkuwanito4728lol stop lying. Chinese in malaysia and singapore are racist af. They need to be deported 😂
Hallo, MERDEKA !!!!!.
Salam dari sesama bangsa Indonesia.
Penduduk asli Taiwan di Indonesia
th-cam.com/video/bcqhs39DHE0/w-d-xo.htmlsi=iKB43F8-j5Ir1oKh
i don’t think so on malaysia, i heard they excluded themself from the society, and i heard the indian descendants do this too. the chinese and indian descendants there don’t even speaks malay properly. i’m really glad that everyone in indonesia no matter if it’s indigenous ethnicities or descendants of foreign ethnicities still proud to speak bahasa indonesia, because it will be a chaos to speak on our own ethnic language for a country with 1.340 ethnicities not even counting the numerous of foreign descendants ethnicities that proud to be indonesian.
台灣真的需要再次學習包容各種不同語言文化國家的人們,不管是基於強烈的好奇心還是種族歧視的刻板印象,台灣人都需要真心誠意的面對自己,好好的想辦法解決它,才能得到最真摯長久的友誼,非常感謝這位來自印尼的朋友能夠說出最真實的聲音,讓台灣人有機會知道自己的不足之處,才能有改善的機會.希望你們都能夠在台灣這片土地上快樂生活,加油.
感謝 Ivana 的分享
謝謝Ivana勇於提出問題，台灣確實對東南亞還有很多很多的偏見
應該要被看見並持續的改善。
很直白坦率的印尼女孩 說得很棒 台灣確實有些不足 比如國際視野 那種很開潤很跳動的野心和活動力好像不多見
The eyebrow raise before she said something negative was funny 😅
😆
Diplomatic way
Let me just say.. Chinese Indonesian isn't the labor workers you see doing construction work. They control a big part of Indonesia's economy or often sitting in the upper class society there. This girl fits far better with the abc in US/Canada than in an introverted society like most young people in Taiwan. I bet the girl's parents wanted her to learn the traditional Chinese culture and her roots which is why Taiwan is being chosen
完全點出台灣該面對的問題，無論是文化與教育！特別是文化，「台灣最美的風景是人」這句話是取決的膚色深淺，自己是原住民，深深感受到那種歧視。
台灣加油
一堆高級權貴，他們的二 三代亦是如此
台灣原住民代表團下南洋印尼尋根認親
th-cam.com/video/bcqhs39DHE0/w-d-xo.htmlsi=iKB43F8-j5Ir1oKh
Penduduk asli taiwan adalah bangsa austronesian yang menyebar di banyak negara asia tenggara seperti indonesia filipina malaysia.
Rumpun bahasa mereka juga mirip misalnya:
1 satu / esa
2 dua / dawala
3 tiga / telo
4 empat / ampat
5 lima / limo
6 enam / anim
7 tujuh / pito
8 delapan / wali
9 sembilan / salawa
10 sepuluh / siplo
外國移工辛苦了，獨自離鄉背景出國打拼不僅要承受孤獨也要適應當地的文化。希望台灣能保持開放包容的心態來對待移工。
很好的訪問！我們真的不想只聽到優點
謝謝🙏
as an Indonesian living in Taiwan for the past 1 year, I can totally relate to this!!! Taiwanese are generally very nice, they just lack of knowledge of diversity and global environment
Okay a couple things,
1. If you have a chance to do a second video with her I'd love to know what she didn't like about Taiwan's education system and what she thinks needs to be done for it to improve
2. I'm curious if she and her family speaks Hokkien? I think the main Chinese people who went to Indonesia were Hokkien speakers so I wonder if her family speaks more Mandarin or Hokkien
I think Ivana will reply you directly 😎
Hi Daniel! In my humble opinion lol *since a lot of people are very pressed on the comments about the education system i mentioned* 😅, my major is communication, I don’t know much about other majors though. When i was in undergrad, i had most classes in lecture styles, and not much interaction between students and professors. Even in small group discussions, almost everyone is very quiet it felt like everyone is just reluctant or afraid to voice out their opinions, which honestly I’m nervous too when i voiced out my opinion on Jay’s video. It feels like we only seek for the correct answers when most of the time its not required to always have *the correct answer*. To be honest, i didn’t learn much in undergrad, but the one thing i learned was how to socialize and build a friendship while trying to survive in a completely different environment and culture! I think the things we all can improve is being respectful to everyone, when in class or outside class, building a safe environment and space for students to voice out their opinions without the fear of being judged would help a lot rather than just having a one way teaching style and passive interaction.
And yes we speak mostly in hokkien😆 but we don’t really speak mandarin, even my dad cant speak a single chinese because there was a period of time when Mandarin is completely restricted by the government.
I hope these clarified some of the misunderstandings on the video, thankyou for being very respectful! ☺️☀️
@@ivana_tania Thanks for responding Ivana! What you said is something I've been hearing a lot about the Taiwanese education culture actually (I've never studied in Taiwan, I was born and raised in Canada). I hope they improve on that.
Would it be fair to say that your and your family is more fluent in hokkien than in Mandarin?
@@danzwku yes! I would say even some professors are sometimes a little bit stubborn and won’t let students explore more🥹😅 but i hope this education system and culture will improve in the future☀️
Yes! But even our hokkien is more diverse hahaha a lot of mixture of Hokkien, Indonesian, and English!😅😅😅
@@ivana_tania I was in high school when I learned that what we called "Taiwanese" wasn't inclusive to Taiwan lol and that they spoke it in many other countries like Indonesia, Singapore, Malaysia, and even the Philippines. So really we should call it Taiwanese Hokkien because its our own way of speaking it, but since it became the dominant language here for a few hundred years it just became known as Taiwanese ha. I was very happy to have met a Chinese Indonesian a few years ago who would later become my best friend.
一段很誠實的訪談。
好的值得開心，不好的要虛心接受。
歧視外勞是很低能的事情，事實就是，台灣本勞也過得不好，只能透過歧視別人來得到一點安慰。 雖然要承認這點很困難，因為唯一的安慰都沒了。但擁抱外勞，不求一起提升勞權，一起苦中作樂也是很讚的事情！
（去年就有越南人在科技廠集體罷工的新聞，比台灣人有guts多了）
越南工是蠻弱勢的，但也是問題產生最多的移工
Most old Chinese Indonesians speak Hakka, little Tieo Chau, Hokkien or Cantonese.however, young people speak mostly Indonesian now
Indonesia adalah bahasa kedua yg dipelajari setiap orang Indonesia, ini adalah bahasa yang menyatukan kami semua, tapi bahasa pertama adalah bahasa sesuai suku / bangsa kami sendiri.
其實不太能夠確定台灣的歧視是出於種族還是由於階級。階級發生的歧視算是滿根植於人類社會的現象了，「階級」這個概念就預設了有上下關係了。例如東亞社會很常聽到的梗，對小孩說：「如果你不好好的讀書，就會像那個人一樣做掃地的(或者其他職業)」。工人的父母也都會希望小孩能多讀點書，不要再繼續做工。如果這個社會會把「博士去賣雞排」、「碩士去做外送」當作異常的，那我們的確就是覺得賣雞排或作外送不如當醫生或做工程師來得體面。
我個人是覺得這種歧視無可厚非，也是因為這種「歧視」，使得社會上自認為優秀的人會去選擇更有產值的工作。這也許未必是件壞事。但我會認為，至少在表面上，大家還是應該要維持某種「政治正確」。絕不能把這種歧視的話語掛在嘴上、拿來教育小孩，或是當作理所當然。很多事情就像是人類的色慾、自我中心、貪婪、嫉妒一樣，最好是能改掉，但如果改不掉，一個正直的社會也不會允許把這些想法當作理所當然，否則就會變成一個自私、弱肉強食的社會了。所以我會認為階級上的偏見或歧視不太可能根除，但絕不能成為社會的主流風氣。
而在種族方面的歧視，我想東亞社會也很常見。因為東亞社會大多是單一民族社會，日本、韓國、中國、台灣都是。我們總是要選擇一個態度來對待那些我們不熟悉的族裔。歧視不只是負面的，在東亞也很常見對於高加索人種的「positive discrimination」。由於對於外來族裔的不熟悉，難免就會用標籤化來應對。很容易會覺得日韓、歐美先進；而東南亞落後。而又由於這種標籤化，帶到階級上的歧視。
對於移工的態度，即便是比台灣更加國際的香港，也曾經有「賓妹」這樣的標籤。新加坡人對移工，也未必有好態度，陳哲藝的《爸媽不在家》也有帶到相關的議題。台灣、香港、新加坡都相對經濟上發達，社會已經中產化了，對於非中產階級的品味、習慣、言語本來就容易感到不自在，而對於外籍的非中產階級，自然在理解、同情對方的成本就更高，也難做了。
雖然Ivana比較悲觀，覺得台灣在這方面進步有限。但我想台灣還是有稍微進步的。台灣人對勞工階級已經逐步往我上面說的，至少在表態上會維持政治正確的態度。這樣的態度自然也會朝向來台灣從事勞動工作的外國朋友們。另外則是政府有意識的推廣友善東南亞文化的態度。不過這兩方面的速度是否足夠快，我想作為台灣人來說都是不客觀的，還是得看東南亞朋友是怎麼想的。
最後我看到有些朋友提到Ivana也許在台灣沒有到名校受教育，才因此對台灣的高等教育有點抱怨。但我會覺得台灣的高等教育不夠好應該算是事實吧XD十幾年前還在大學的時候，有聽過台大的老師說到他不認為自己的系所有能力訓練出「博士」(我想他的意思是以美國名校標準的話。不過這個科系在台大算發展得越來越好，不知道老師現在會不會修正他的看法)。我自己也會覺得越往碩士和博士走的話，台大離歐美名校的差距也越來越遠。這很可以想像，也是為什麼台大書卷學士畢業後很多會選擇留洋的原因，畢竟國內高等教育還是有輸。
不過高等教育是另一個議題了。台大不是沒進步，但現在國際的高等教育競爭太激烈了，你進步得比別人慢就變退步了。台灣高等教育的預算、師生比、課程設計等等方面多少都有在短期內無法突破的限制。有時候巧婦難為無米之炊，也不是單純抱怨教育部、校方、老師或學生就解決了。不過話說回來，跟美國比的話，至少在台灣讀書還是很便宜啦XD
Hey Yu, 感謝你的深度留言.
我覺得台灣大部分人情況是停留在"刻板印象"的層級, 也就是人對於特定團體特質有「特定的信念」。 如果加上情緒以及行為偏差,就是導致成偏見行為以及歧視.(當然我相信還是有部分人士比較靠近這情況)
政府有意識的推廣友善東南亞文化的態度。不過這兩方面的速度是否足夠快，我想作為台灣人來說都是不客觀的，還是得看東南亞朋友是怎麼想的 --> 同意
我覺得你點出一個非常有趣的議題 -> 在東亞也很常見對於高加索人種的「positive discrimination」
嗨 Yu! 看完你打的留言大部分我都蠻認同的☀️ 不是故意讓大家覺得很悲觀，我也真心很喜歡在台生活所以才會繼續留下來，但每個國家當然是不完美的，相對來說印尼也是會有像你指的 positive discrimination，我也認為歧視這件事是每個地方都會有的issue。這是需要很多的時間和awareness去改善的，我也不敢保證我可以做得到，但大家都是在努力的慢慢去做改善💪🏼
在影片提到的只是最常遇到的刻板印象，我想如果真的要講出來的話是可以很多的，尤其如果去問其他的東南亞朋友。但我瞭解很多人的出發心是單純好奇心，所以我也不會真的往心裡想甚至罵人家😅 大家都是一起學習，希望大家可以多多包容彼此，也學會尊重☀️🤍
謝謝你的分享☺️☀️
@@ivana_tania 當年台北捷運要加入日語播放時，我就有說爲什麽不加入印尼語，因爲印尼是在台最大移工群體，爲什麽不照顧他們給他們方便？還有臺北車站的坐在地上黑白方格，也是印尼移工帶來的文化，原本疫情臺北車站想把它根除，我很高興有人為他們發聲把這文化保留下來。
@@ivana_tania Ivana是棉蘭人吧？是福建、客家、廣府還是潮州人呢？Btw, wa jg org Mdn...wkkkk
不能以偏概全吧，在我们大陆已经对于高加索人的态度开始慢慢转向为讨厌了，大家一开始就会不怀好意的推测这是不是什么白人loser, 对待黑人的态度更是恶劣，很多描述他们的话基本上在TH-cam都发不出来，而且凡是在互联网说混血人种有优势的言论都会被抨击，这可能跟民族主义思潮阶段性的涌现有关，不过对待高素质人群大家又会网开一面不再谈及肤色，另外在大陆的自媒体上面，因为台湾需要美军的保护，所以被描述为白人的附庸，就是男人以娶白人女孩为荣，女生都对白人投怀送抱，很多黑人可以轻易娶到台湾女生，而在大陆现在因为舆论的影响，只要跟黑人有关，不管是娶黑人还是嫁黑人，无疑例外全部是谩骂，很多人骨子里面都是看不起的，我们基本没什么反对种族歧视这种政治正确的观念，按照欧洲美国的标准，很多人在互联网的言论都应该被关照了，我们的政治正确是国家统一以及56个民族团结一致，情况大概就是这个样子。
Mudah2an utk semua orang indonesia yg belajar di Luar Negri ataupun yg bekerja apapun kerjaannya, sukses dan yg terpenting pandanglah kejujuran sebagai kasta kesuksesan yg paling tinggi
我是台灣人，老婆是印尼當地人，我在印尼生活工作10年以上，也在澳洲生活一段時間，現在我們回來台灣生活。
我是覺得台灣人民還是相對其他國家缺少國際觀，而且對於看待東南亞國家人民有種族優勢意識。當然這也不能怪台灣政府啦，主要是人民組成就大部分是台灣人，並不像移民國家 新加坡 加拿大 澳大利亞哪樣，在路上看到各式各樣的種族已習以為常。
最後建議，若是想要唸書，建議去歐美國家，若是想要學中文，建議來台灣（跟大陸比）。
因為不同的身份、目的、能力來臺灣，保持開放、尊重的態度，是我每次看完影片後，認為需要一直學習和改進的。
我覺得英文是可以幫助不同國家的人溝通的相對簡單的媒介，總不能，每個來台灣的外國人都要會說中文。
但是，我認同臺語的學習確實也被嚴重忽略，它代表臺灣文化的一部分。和國際持續交流之外，臺語也需要傳承。
Jay訪問的這位，來自波多黎各的留學生就蠻酷的👍 來研究臺語的
th-cam.com/video/keBVP-ThIFc/w-d-xo.html
Thanks for the Southeast Asian videos, wonder if you'll manage to interview a Thai person there as well, interested to hear their perspective and what to know what image Taiwanese have of Thai people especially with the semi-recent drama of a Taiwanese actress being extorted for money.
Glad you like. Yes I do want to interview Thai in Taiwan. You will see it soon
I love to see the interviews to the Thais in Taiwan.
One thing I notice actually is that there are significant number of people out there even seem hard to distinguish between Thailand and Taiwan as nations and sometimes they mix them up, lol.
@@sino-tibeto-myanmar Yes haha, but not prevalent in Taiwan. I just know that there's a lot of Thais studying and holidaying in Taiwan and I plan to go once I get some more money saved.
This episode is nice👍 and yeah I think Taiwanese education is not good though I never study abroad😂
Not best indeed, but National Taiwan University is one of the top universities in Asia Pacific that is quite amazing to me, which such thing are dominated by Japan & South Korea usually.
@@sino-tibeto-myanmar 沒有啊，我看了2023年QS排行榜，前40都是大陸、新加坡、香港佔的多，日本和韓國也有、但臺灣都幾百名開外了。
I think Taiwan has taken different approach to tertiary education, but that doesn‘t mean its bad.😁
With only 23 million people and the ability to build warships, Fighter Jets and missiles and defend Taiwan on its own. I don‘t think Taiwanese are weak.
And with ability to produce an army of engineers to produced the best semi-conductor in the world. Taiwanese education can not be that bad.
And Yes, I am a Taiwanese.
i’m really glad that recently the indonesian president gradually reduces the permit to work outside indonesia as the blue collars like factory worker, healthcare worker, construction worker, or even maid every year as indonesia is currently rapidly growing into industrial country with rapidly growing GDP. there are tons of smelters and factories built in indonesia in just a decade and it’s a good thing for the government to bans on assembled import of vehicles and electronics device and bans on raw minerals export to grows local industry and maintain the national dignity so that we can’t be seen as low class people by those ignorant foreigners. and i also heard vietnam do this too. great hope for southeast asian countries, mostly for indonesian, vietnamese, thai, and filipino! for msian and sporean i’m really glad that you already maintaining your economy better than most southeast asian countries! viva southeast asian countries!
I assume Ivana's mother tongue is not Indonesian but probably Hakka, Hokkien, Teochow, or Cantonese, but she tried to speak rusty Indonesian and then ended up a bit awkward...that is funny, too; besides, I guess she had been exposed to English environment a lot, maybe in school, before she came to Taiwan. That is why she speaks fluent English with sort of American accent.
I believe She's Chinese- Indonesian, i have friend same as her, they have the same accent
absolutely, she is Chinese Indonesian as we can see that in the beginning of video. I have several Chinese Indonesian friends as well. Most of them have sick local accents however, Ivana does not.
Hey Yen! I appreciate your kind comments a lot!!🥹 Yes i do speak more Hokkien back at home which resulting in my very rusty indonesian🥲 but I’m currently working on it too 💪🏼
My english is still not as great but it’s all (mainly) thanks to watching lots of TH-cam videos and English songs haha 😂🫶🏼
@@ivana_tania very cool, since you speak Hokkien, it helps you settle in Taiwan more or less. By the way, I like the way you rolled in the interview :)
1:12 i beg to disagree I've been living and working here in Taiwan for almost 10 years now and i barely speak Chinese 😂😅 .... But i appreciate her honesty regarding Taiwanese educational system 🤭🤔
Hey Aya! I completely understand your opinion too! Probably its because I was here for undergrad and all of my lectures and classes were in chinese only so i had to really adapt with the whole language! But I’m happy you’re enjoying your life here!! xx
@@ivana_taniayeah i understand, when you say , "most of your Taiwanese friends doesn't speak English"
@@ivana_tania wa pikir2 kl ngomong hokkien wah sih medan lang
Chinese-Indonesians do a pretty decent American accent. I wonder if that has something to do with the pronunciation of the Indonesian language?
Nope, it’s to do with our (mainly media) exposure. We are exposed to American shows and music very early on here. Often even more than our own media.
Even those who study at a British or Australian international school here rarely/never develop those accents unless they’re purposefully trying. The teachers they employ aren’t strictly from the commonwealth.
Our alphabet is inherited from the Dutch alphabet. Which is similar to the English alphabet, but different.
This is all middle upper and upper class Indonesian in general and not limited to/influenced by ethnic background more than it is social class. I have to say this too now that I’ve brought up social class and since it’s a stereotype; not all Chinese Indonesians are rich, nor are all rich Indonesians of Chinese descent. There are many wealthy non-Chinese Indonesians, especially of political background. What ethnic background may do is influence overseas destinations for study, work, or vacation. Resulting in skewed exposure of specific Indonesian demographics.
For example, sometimes Chinese Indonesians might pick up a Singapore-esque accent due from exposure (Singaporean friends, family, media, education). On the other hand, Indonesians in the Netherlands are much more likely to be of Eurasian and Pribumi (indigenous) descent. Particularly Moluccan and Javanese (particular ethnic groups).
Most of non British people in the world will speak English like American accent.
Ivana cntik cerdas..semangat cci ivana smoga sukses slalu salam dr jkarta pusat..🇮🇩🇮🇩🇮🇩
雖然她的論述是滿中肯的，她也很幸運碰到好同學及朋友，她也說的很直白，但似乎態度上也不是很真正很認同台灣的環境，同時也表達她的後悔之意，如果她真的很後悔來台學習，她應該趁現在還很年輕的時候趕快去其他國家找尋適合她的教育體系。當然，台灣依然還是非常歡迎她能繼續在台留學。只是希望她能尋找到她喜歡的教育學習系統。
碩士頭洗下去就很難再另尋國家了，表面上只有兩年，但除非有足夠的資金...不然一般人很難再去玩甚麼雙碩士或是半途而廢去另一個國家重讀碩士...更不用提她已經來台灣很多年了，去別的國家在語言跟文化上又要重新適應，教育體系也要重新適應，可能不是重讀這麼簡單，實際上花的時間可能會超過預期，一個人的青春有限...大部分人離鄉被竟無非不是學取新知識跟賺錢，兩者還是要平衡。
然後身為台灣人，也必須說台灣的教育體系真的滿...在通才教育做得不錯，有效台灣人均水準，但在高學識領域，台灣的教育不但不吸引外國人，個人覺得對台灣本土的發展也滿有害的...
@@yscai6673 謝謝您表達了我想說的！！當初會在台繼續念碩士因為還在疫情中的時候，所以沒有想很多也先申請碩士🥹
沒想到念到最後兩個學期了很多國外的學校已經回歸實體上課，但碩士已經讀到一半也覺得已經花了一年多，重讀或念雙碩士可能會很浪費錢尤其主要是時間🥲 看著朋友同學們都已經出社會工作但自己還在讀書和靠家裡拿生活費其實默默心裡也覺得很自責。
謝謝你幫我描述了我所想表達的！很多人留言說怎麼不去國外再讀但沒有考慮到其他人感受😅 說說本來就很簡單，但要考慮的因素很多🥲
謝謝你☀️☀️☀️
lol! it's also happened to me, i can't even speak my mother language fluently after using different language for 4 years non-stop, only using my native language for chatting but not that often, sad to hear, but that's the truth for trilingual or maybe the polyglot godness
when said I am from Indonesia, some of Taiwan kids goes like: “印度….@#$ 你是印度來的喔？“🤷
Indonesia = India 😆 😆
Great video as always! But the bgm of this video almost put me back to sleep.
My bad 😂 I’m still trying to find the best bgm of video
These stereotypes that these Taiwanese Chinese have on Southeast Asian people are sort of funny considering the island they live on was first inhabited by the same class of people they look down on, the Austronesian aborigines
她中文講的真好,短短幾句,聽起來就像台灣人的口音,我的工作常會遇到一些東南亞同事,都沒有像Ivana那麼厲害👍
對阿 Ivana 的中文比我的英文還好 😱
她是"華僑"，你的東南亞同事都是華僑嗎？
原來她是華僑,看來我開頭的一小段沒注意到😂
7:09 Yes, you are right, and I totally agree with you; we have a trashy education system here in Taiwan. It also depends on the uni or college, but in general, you are mostly right. 8:35 結果她中文爆炸好 😄
Ivana 中英文都很好 是我逼她講英文而已 😬
Hey no need to be sorry at all but you should share more details on the education system in Taiwan.
Taiwan have very good universities and also have many party schools.
I wonder if Ivana and other Chinese Indonesians speak putonghua or other Chinese dialects at home already? Also what did they study at university? A thumbs up to studying in a Chinese language at the tertiary level 👍
I will answer this from my perspective as an Indonesian born Chinese. It depends on the location or city where you live.
In my place (i live in East Kalimantan), the elders are able to speak Mandarin and some dialects (mostly Cantonese and Hakka).
But my generation is only know a little bit Mandarin.
For daily, we use Indonesian to communicate.
As well for the university.
I'll add that it also depends on the generations and locations too.
For people who attended schools until mid 1960s, especially outside the island of Java, they probably still have schools that strictly use putonghua as the main language. But after 1966 Chinese culture was basically banned until the end of Suharto's era.
Only after Gus Dur's era in 1999 we finally have the ban lifted and consequently Mandarin class as extracurricular class is no longer illegal. I only started to learn Mandarin formally (just a little bit) at that point.
And as for my nephew who was born in the 2000s, his parents could send him to school whose classes were delivered in Mandarin. He spoke better putonghua than me and currently studying for his undergrad in Taiwan 🙂
Adding another perspective as an IBC in Jakarta most Chindos here (and on java island) don’t speak chinese or hokkien. Instead most opt to learn english (same goes for me). And you might notice their name doesn’t sound chinese and thats because Soeharto banned chinese culture during his reign (yeah he f*cked us up real good, gotta give him that) but they sneak in their chinese name right beneath their Indonesian legal name. For example my family legal name is “tenggara” but the real name is Teng. Many esp the older generation are still having PTSD. For example my father said he hates and mocks chinese culture name but when I asked why, he didn’t want to talk about it. But i can see right through his eyes it has nothing to do with hate but more about past trauma.
Hi, im gonna put another perspective from another city i live in. I am born and raised in Pekanbaru (capital city of Riau Province). My parents moved from their hometown, Medan (capital city of Sumatra Utara [North Sumatra] Province) to Pekanbaru few years before i was born.
Hence, at home, i usually speak Medan dialect hokkien with my parents although i mix it with indonesian words since im not fluent at it. But Medan hokkien by itself has already borrowed a lot of indonesian words. Medan hokkien is used as lingua franca for medan chinese people despite their own language (such as hakka, teochew, cantonese).
I have one friend who was born and raised in Medan of hakka descent and speak fluent hakka language with his family. He also speaks hokkien fluently when communicating with other medan chinese. And somehow he can also speak mandarin since he also learn it at school maybe.
Same case with my mom, she speaks cantonese with her father since her grandfather directly sailed from China itself. But she can also speak medan hokkien. Although sadly i can't speak cantonese cause our family only speak hokkien at home. Yes, my father is hokkien descent.
Funfact, medan hokkien is different from hokkien in riau although i can understand some words and the context tho. But i heard that there are a lot of varieties in riau hokkien since riau provinces is quite huge cmiiw.
At school, obviously i speak indonesian since indonesian is our official language. Even if my classmates in chinese indonesian, i still speak indonesian to them cause i can't understand if they speak their hokkien dialect to me.
I can't speak mandarin cause even my family cant speak mandarin and i've never learned it like in a proper way. Which is my goal right now to be able to read and speak mandarin fluently. Wish me luck🥰
大學教育_不同學校的教學品質/資源有差異
Agree 💯 with that Indo girl.. even Mainland China (PRC) has more better attitude towards Chinese overseas and other Asians rather than Taiwanese itself.
This is actually a shocker to me. Seriously. I probably get this bias from politic, I always thought that Taiwanese would have better attitude since, you know, they have much more "freedom" and all. Well, I guess it's in our nature to discriminate those who are different to us. Lol
Semangat kak Ivana! ^^
講得很好，台灣的高等教育確實需要好好檢討，一堆只會寫文章不會教書的老師真的會害死學生
會唸書跟會教書是兩件事
而且一些外語教學連母語者都聽不懂..
Semangat Ivana 😊
應該家裏父母是講中文 所以印尼文 較不熟練。有機會還是可以去歐美學校進修。
terima kasih
台灣很多記憶，還停留在20多年前；世界已經變了，而我們還活在亞洲四小龍的榮耀。
教育的部分有點弔詭，無關對錯，很多人都說大學學不到東西、太寬鬆，但相較其他國家我們花更多學習精力在國高中，為了考上頂大沒日沒夜，上了大學後才分為兩種人，自律的人會利用資源自主學習，另一部分就是老子終於熬過來了，我要大玩特玩
台灣教育的問題是，大學以上的高等教育，對那些利用資源自主學習的人才而言，並沒有吸引力...
國外的大學是透過國內的教育與訓練，使他們畢業後取得的證書有所價值，台灣的大學則是透過高中時的入學測驗去決定這大學的價值，一個重視的是學生怎麼畢業，一個是重視學生怎麼入學，差多了，台灣人的巔峰都停留在考入學測驗的時候，一個考上台大的人亂混一通讀六年才畢業PR值在該校只有10也遠遠大於普通大學但很認真的人才，這才是問題，台灣的環境不重視台灣人在大學有怎樣的訓練，只重視他進大學前的成績，比起從頂尖學府畢業，台灣人的環境更重視"考進"頂尖學府。
I love Taiwan 🇹🇼 from Brazil
😎
Mau ada darah tionghoa atau tidak, Ivana kelihatan banget orang indonesianya...body language dan gesture jelas banget khas Indonesia
Ivana ialah Hitachi dan nampak nya Taiwan sangat banyak menerima Hitachi asal Asia tenggara😀👍
我不太懂！但是說台灣學不到很多，倒是認同的！為這女孩點贊！
Next time, perhaps you could do interview with Taiwanese Older and younger generation, what do they know about Indonesia?
Good advise 😎
說白的其實人都是需要被教育的。尊重不同文化，善待他人也是善待自己😊
Such a great and wonderful content.
Thank you 🙏
I am grateful to have moved and live in Bali
in my country it is truly individualistic, in fact we have been neighbors for almost 20 years, we don't know the names of their children, we don't know that their parents have died, when I went on holiday to Bali I was really shocked, here you are required to socialize , I was shocked but finally I knew the benefits of socializing, you will not feel alone whether you are happy or sad, when I was sick in Bali, when I was being cared for, many of my neighbors were local Balinese people who came to visit carrying fruit, believe me this was the sweetest thing I've ever seen. I felt that when I lived in my home country for 20 years, please throw away the stereotypes about Southeast Asia, believe me if you know and know them, they are one of the people with a high level of caring
Seriously, the Thai students, who I am studying with, are all from big cities like Bangkok and well-off families. Also, among Indonesian students that I know, one girl's dad owns 2 businesses, another one owns a business herself back in Indonesia. In addition, maybe because I study in Taipei, most of Taiwanese students that I study with speak good English. I feel like you can still survive without learning Mandarin if you live in Taipei. However, it is still important to acquire the language if you want to stay here long-term.
上了大學，應該要學習自己安排自己的學習方向，太緊限制了選擇的自由度，其次是看學校、看老師，但其實最主要看自己對自己的要求和期許！就算去了哈佛耶魯，天天打遊戲不上課，也是學不到東西的！
台灣的大學應該是說學分太好拿，不用花太多力氣就可以畢業，如果每科都需要花大量時間學習才能拿到學分，那就不會有學習不到的問題
很多朋友就是如此 能來台灣念書來自東南亞國家的朋友 都是在當地真的比較富有的人!
不過我覺得經濟能力不是本次訪問的重點😅
I am Indonesian and I am quite surprised and very disappointed, Indonesian people are discriminated against in Taiwan,In global politics, Taiwan needs the support of other countries, Indonesia is one of the countries to be reckoned with in the international world,Indonesia's role in international politics is quite influential and is a big player,Indonesia can compete with the United States, Russia and even China,Only the Indonesian leader dared to come to Russia and to Ukraine for peaceful discussions for the Russian and Ukrainian war,I think that if this kind of discrimination occurs in the long term, no country will ever respect Taiwan in global politics.thanks you
They are not discriminated against, but they are seen as a certain group. There are stereotypes thinking about them by Taiwanese, not discriminated against.
I think you should visit Taiwan first before accuse Taiwanese of been Racist.
ok langsung aku subscribe &like..
她應該是過來唸了由技職體系轉換過來的私立「大學」
若要有更好的學習體驗，她可以試著加強自己的中文能力與成績，以獲得優質的教育師資與資源
不是 她上面有說出她遇到的問題
台灣教育的問題是，大學以上的高等教育，對那些利用資源自主學習的人才而言，並沒有吸引力...
國外的大學是透過國內的教育與訓練，使他們畢業後取得的證書有所價值，台灣的大學則是透過高中時的入學測驗去決定這大學的價值，一個重視的是學生怎麼畢業，一個是重視學生怎麼入學，差多了，台灣人的巔峰都停留在考入學測驗的時候，一個考上台大的人亂混一通讀六年才畢業PR值在該校只有10也遠遠大於普通大學但很認真的人才，這才是問題，台灣的環境不重視台灣人在大學有怎樣的訓練，只重視他進大學前的成績，比起從頂尖學府畢業，台灣人的環境更重視"考進"頂尖學府。
台灣的大學教育環境說白了，大部分就是普通高中披著大學皮而已，許多頂尖學校的價值只有考進去的學生資質不錯這點而已，教育水準方面倒是....跟國際有滿大落差的。
Some or most Taiwanese doesn't really understand our neighbors...
Yes, always Japan
undestanding respect each other, even if love is not possible no need to hate. peace to us all.
Sehat terus semua yg berjuang di luar negri termasuk yg kuliah🥰
Fun fact, they looking down Indonesiam hard worker but we found many Taiwan ppl working hard in the west 😂 even they have bad exp compared to Indonesian who also work there.
Agreed
Gak jelas kau
The girl was worried about being massacred by the Indonesians when she returned to Indonesia, so she spoke cautiously.
I guess u are living in 90s right?
There is no such situation in 2024, but discrimination exists
她說的雖然沒錯 但多數人看到的與接觸到的也真的是來當護理人員而高知識份子或是科技人員真的相對較少 這要稱為刻板印象好像也不妥 普遍人們都以大宗接觸為印象 而她屬於少部分受高教育的份子 如果要改變這種印象只能讓人們生活中遇不到這種情況 不然不會改變畢竟她屬於較富裕人家是來讀書 而來從業的是屬於來自比較貧困的家庭 我覺得他應該是感受到歧視而不是刻板印象 只是說刻板印象比較好聽 就像東南亞國家的人到歐美西方國家也會有類似的感受 除非你自己國家變富裕或變強不然我覺得很難改變
其實刻板印象這是真的 但 每個國家對外國人都會有刻板印象的 就像歐美人 對於亞洲人也會有刻板印象都很正常 但不至於歧視到去攻擊或瞧不起其他國家的人，反觀 也許真正的去理解為何其他國家的人對自己國家有這樣的刻板印象也是另一種思考方式，但台灣學校是真的學不到什麼，提高每個國人的基本教育程度，感覺就是至少每個國人素質能提高些，真的要學到什麼其實有其他國家能選擇
How do you get into a college if you can’t speak their language?
💯💯💯💯💯
Bagus ini❤ menambah wawasan..
Most of Chinese Indonesians can speak English (American English)
Technically, we can't recognize Indonesian English accents?
Because at school, teachers always use English with a British or USA accent 🙂
Most of non British in the world speak English in American Accent.
@@Madpett Malaysian and Singaporean use British accent (mixed with Chinese & Malay)
She look mixed heritage, with distinctive SE Asian facial features.
Wow, very good interview so far to me.
She explained well, detailed and more importantly, she is honest.
Ivana is great !
In Europe and 🇺🇸 it is the Indonesian who protect Chinese (east Asian) people. For example there are 2 million Indonesian in Netherlands and also strong INDOS community in US and Australia, Switzerland and remember Indonesian has 35 million Christians in Indonesia and 5 million Christians Overseas.
THE INDONESIAN SPREAD ALL AROUND THE WORLD TOO.. ASIAN MOST MIXED WITH EUROPEAN.
Don't Look down on Indo maid, mostly maid in Indo is from java, they are proud of being ASEAN
Don’t expect to survive in any country when you don’t know the local language … that’s the number one rule when you try to go abroad… learn the local language.
Hi
Ivana英文很好
原來她國語這麼好
對阿 只是我強迫她跟我講英文 😆
謝謝 Jay
不客氣 希望你喜歡這集的影片
她超讚 喜歡她的直率
saya orang indonesia
di indonesia juga ada rasis terhadap orang china,
di sebabkan kenapa? karena kebanyakan dari mereka rasis terhadap penduduk asli, walaupun tidak semuanya,
Jadi tidak ada Pribumi yang rasis ke Chindo?
@@danganrompa2626 baca baik2
Sekarang harusnya udh gk boleh rasis lagi, soalnya Sama-Sama WNI 🙂
Toh, Harto Juga udh gk ada. Jadi gk ada alasan lagi
Tapi Rasisnya Orang Indonesia itu pindahnya Ke Asia Selatan ( Prindavan cs) 🤭
Hallo mbak, anda hebat, saya bangga dengan anda 👍👍👍
Ok ..sudah saya subcribe 👍👍
很REAL的發言
That's a drop dead gorgeous girl.
hokkien taiwan must be formalized.
well, kinda same here, not a lot of people know about taiwan, if there's a person with small eyes and yellow skin, we're just gonna assume they were from chinese, japan or korea, and i bet most of them couldn't even speak clear english, it's happened everywhere, western people discriminate asian, asian people just gonna discriminate another asian.. not so surprising tho, we all live in a society where the majority is the ruled...
我曾在觀光局受訓時遇到一位很帥的台灣x印尼混血，但是我覺得他超難相處，「印尼」這個詞對他是禁忌，他不管內容，就是三七二十一炸毛，直到同團有人提到俄羅斯，換我炸毛，算是感同身受吧。
1960年代印尼排華的時候，還是有幾千印尼華僑撤到台灣，數十萬撤到大陸。在印尼，有的中上階級印尼華僑甚至連自己的中文姓氏都已經忘記，也同樣用手吃飯。
謝謝你分享這些小部分的歷史給大家👍🏼
用手吃飯都是我們印尼的其中一個文化，無論階級，不管是總統，偶爾還是會用手吃飯因為就是我們國家的其中一個文化習俗☀️
Good job
wht dont you study in malaysia?
學校真的不一定會學到什麼
師父引進門 修行在個人
以前我們學的東西 隨便舉例好了
比如學校教你的是CD/VCD
然後市面上可能已經開始流行DVD video dvd-audio 等你要畢業藍光上市了 網路youtube netflix disney都一個個冒頭了
學校教的肯定沒有同步的這麼快 比如教材 如果自己真的有興趣才有可能深度的去了解研習新的事物
印尼華人觀察臺灣人較有刻板印象，例如軍隊志願役、長官主官意識對部屬第1次印象判斷工作能力。