Thank you mate! I think a studio has To be willing to see content missed. That’s the trick. Like BG3, a single player cannot see even 80% of the content as there’s no way to see it all on one playthrough or two. Same with open worlds like Skyrim, you’re gonna miss a lot of content as you’re exploring and it’s got so much to see. But that’s what’s special! When studios like Ubisoft sign post every thing, it changed it from an adventure of exploration to a long list of “to dos” to get through lol
Agreed, for example in TotK, i think it would be a lot better if the tears were a full questline like Skyrim; When you find the first tear, impa reveals a room in the forgotten temple with a map to every memory... Certain tears ruin the story if you find them early, so if you gatekept the memory by requiring tears be gathered and taken to the temple itself to generate cutscenes in order it would have solved 2 issues, otherwise the game only really has 2 interconnected questlines or so, and about half the areas have no dungeon quest despite having locations like Akkala and Hyrule field where bosses were previously present like Wargs for a horseback fight or something. The Pirate quests are one of the few great questlines in the game not required* to beat Ganon. Edit:* I say "not required" but "not related" may be more accurate as very little is "required" just like BotW.
The problem with most open world games are they are full of wasted potentials. The only dev's that do it really well before are Rockstar and CDPR and both of them are far from perfect, I like CDPR stories but their side activities are half assed. Rockstar's side activities are well made, but their stories are not as good as CDPR.
@@zupremo9141 yes I think CDPR needs to find a replacement for the ?s in Witcher 3 and the NCPDs in cyberpunk. They were both fine. Not bad, but not great. Idk what they put there instead though.
Funny story my wife played ff7 rebirth first and complained about the open world checklist stuff. I told her, just leave it! She didn’t. She couldn’t. I then played it and couldn’t leave it either! I literally couldn’t even follow my own advice! There’s something in us as gamers that need to check every corner, every inch. Some kind of requirement cuz imagine moving on leaving an area with 1 thing left undone? I’d lose bloody sleep over it! lol
I check every room because you never know what important item you might find. Like a key that you'd have to use to unlock some door on the other corner of the map. This habit has been basically taught to us by game designers. It's not a personal natural habit.
The idea that these games don't need to have good combat, story, progression or anything else other than a world is utter bullshit in my opinion. The reason for why "Bethesda magic" never worked on me is that, 10 hours into Skyrim, I stopped entering random caves I found on the wayside because I already knew what was going to be inside: shitty combat against boring enemies for boring loot that I didn't need anyway because crafting professions are overpowered as fuck and there is nothing to spend gold on so there's no point to hauling any of it back for selling either. Open World games started dying when they utilized the growth in console hardware and began to rely on pure excess of how much stuff there is to do in them while completely neglecting that the actual doing is soulcrushingly fucking boring and inconsequential. Anything Bethesda has made between Morrowind and Starfield are the poster children of this, while Starfield is the consequence of Bethesda buying into its own bullshit and thinking that its gameplay is good enough that it can sustain playing through procedurally generated maps.
The illusion of open world, mostly in the form of freely connected hub worlds, is much better for immersion. Mass Effect, KOTOR, Deus Ex, FF1-9, VtM:B.
@@AVVGaming1 I am an Obsidian STAN, so most of their games (Fallout New Vegas, The Outer Worlds) OG Bioware stuff as well (KOTOR 1 & 2, Mass effect 2). I even enjoyed a game like Rage 2.
First off, thank you for a very thought provoking and concise video. I think, at end, it's not so much the open world games that are fatiguing as it is half-ass, watered down versions of an open world game that gets old. I played Oblivion at a bad time in my life. I was laid up for 6 months, had next to no resources and was bored out of my skull. Had quit gaming (for bad reasons) a few years earlier but a friend saw my situation and brought over an xbox 360 with a copy of Oblivion. I played that game every day for 10 to 15 hours for the whole time I was healing. I was absolutely amazed at the sheer amount of content contained on that one disc. I still play thru it once every year or two and still, after twenty or so full playthroughs, find new and undiscovered things in the game. This is what makes open worlds so much fun. Not checking off items from a list before leaving each area. This is getting long so just gonna say good vid
You’re absolutely spot on and thank you for sharing your story and the kind words about the video. I agree with you that the concept of finding something new gives you the 10 to 14 hours a day of content. It’s the searching that’s the fun part. But if you switched on oblivion and every dungeon, side quest etc was already marked on your map, it takes away that excitement! It makes it bland. Developers have to take the risk people will miss a lot of content they made, but that’s what makes the game mysterious and people play it for forever, as opposed to a year!
Witcher 3, Cyberpunk 2077 and Kingdom Come Deliverance is the way to go. I prefer open worlds with great main/side quests and fantastic writing and lore. Presentation also plays a huge part which CDPR nailed both in W3 and C2077 and where Bethesda always f**ks up
I agree with what you’re saying 100%. Honestly, Witcher 3 is my favourite game of all time. It’s just perfection. Cyberpunk is rihht up there. And kingdom come….well let’s just say when it drops in Feb next year, I’m taking a week off work to just play it. It really was a perfect open world game as Wel. Damn! You got good taste!
Thank you very much! Here’s hoping! I just keep making videos and hoping they hit. I just write what I would want to see. I’m trying to do two videos a week now! It’s tiring but I am enjoying it a lot! Thanks for your support on every video as well!
@@AVVGaming1 Just keep up with it, your consistency will be vital to your channel's success. Just keep up, the quality of your videos is great from the start unlike some other channels that grew over time.
@@Mac2104988 thank you so much! I will keep doing it and try to keep the content good! My goal soon is to save up for a new computer, microphone and then get a new editing software and upgrade the quality. But don’t want to lose the human element of it. Some videos on TH-cam I feel are over produced and lose that authenticity. I hope to strike a balance!
@@AVVGaming1 I honestly think you don't need a new anything, videos you made so far are beyond great. But, if you need to convince your significant other that you need new equipment I'm all for it 😄
Oblivion’s music hits me with nostalgia like a damn truck each time. Vague memories of watching older brothers play this and me stumbling along a few tries. LOWERRRR THE GATES
I have played some games, but are absolutely not as experienced as many other gamers. When I first played Cyberpunk I didn't realise NCPD Scanner activities was unique quest like activities and didn't do them. I had a blast playing the game and really loved the world. Replaying it, I discovered NCPD scanner for what it was, played those things too. I noticed I was leveling up far too quickly with that, and it got repetitive very quickly. What I take from that is to do what I find is fun to do. Now I play Mass Effect and the game wants me to scan 20 something robots at the Citadel. I will scan them when I see them but will absolutely not run around looking for them if I find it boring, and it's ok for me not to finish that particular quest.
You know what games had great open worlds, The Yakuza games. Now I'll admit I haven't kept up with those games so I don't know how the newer entries are, but the older once had small densely packed worlds with so much to do and something new around ever street corner. You never get tired of walking around in those games, which is pretty funny because those worlds are really small but it never feels that way. Great games for sure. Also, that poor adoring fan. All he wanted was warship the ground we walked on, and all we did was find creative ways to kill him.
Haha the poor adoring fan! I remember when I was young he was the only companion I could find in the game and he was useless. Died at first sight of enemy lol and it’s crazy you mention the Yakuza games. Infinite wealth, the most recent instalment was my first ever yakuza game and it inspired me to make a TH-cam channel and it was my first video. Without yakuza I wouldn’t be doing this. I’ve now played quite a lot from the series and I completely agree with you. Their open worlds are smaller than like a GTA, but are packed with content. That’s why I love them so much. I honestly wish more games did worlds like that. You could essentially enter every shop and restaurant. If you like turn based combat I would recommend the most recent instalment, it was top quality!
@@AVVGaming1 I really should play the newest one shouldn't I, but I just don't have the time at the moment for gaming. I haven't even had the time to play Fallout London yet, I even bought fallout 4 again on GoG for the easy install but I just can't find the time to play. I should go back and watch your first video as well, I've seen all of them from the moment I subbed to you but I haven't see the few you made before I did.
Batman Arkham Asylum, Saints Row 2, and Saints row 4 are my favorite examples of open world games. I'm okay with missing out on things, (maybe), but these games never make me feel like I'm missing out on anything, and they have very distinct identities and feel like they know what they are, what they're capable of and what they're doing. I'll make a video essay about all of these, someday, and thank you for the video, and channel, I'll make a video essay on that, too, someday.
Honestly, people need to start reading more books, like science fiction and fantasy. There are some really amazing reads out there that you can get lost in. Maybe some of them will then get adapted to film or video games. I think if open world games are gonna succeed, they need to start with a great story.
I think BG3 is a fantastic example of a game packed with content that the devs know not every player will experience. Thats what takes that game to the next level. Its no longer a checklist, now its a modern adventure.
Discovery in an open world cannot be understated. The hell is the point of an open world if you're going to take the exploration element out of it. If you don't have the skills to fill an open world with meaningful content then you shouldn't be making an open world game in the first place.
Exactly my feelings! It’s almost like filler content? It’s just like constant sign posting eveutning you can find, 1000 pop ups telling you where to go, and it just seems like busy work and tires me out quickly. For me the perfect open world should have a lot in it, but make the player discover it themselves, or not! That’s what makes an open world game so exciting, the concept of finding something new! Something no one else has found. That’s why you can make videos like “100 secrets in Skyrim or botw” and people will watch cuz there’s so much hidden there! It takes dedication to find. Games who mark everything just want to make sure the players don’t miss any content, but at the same time it takes away the exploration point.
It felt so open and empty. I had no desire to explore the depths because it was just the same. The sky islands were the same aswell. It was just a missed opportunity. Plus playing through BOTW before, just caused burn out. Maybe if they eventually come out with master mode and extra content would be the only reason to re visit TOtK.
The BEST open world game ever, is Outer Wilds (not the outer worlds) Outer wilds is just so amazing. It is truly "open" there is not a single spot in the game that you cannot go to from the beginning. There are no unlockable items, or abilities, the only thing you gain is knowledge
My top 2: - Environment variety (or lack thereof): Skyrim still feels to me like the biggest open world map I've ever played in, because the environments are all different, you have these mini-biomes that never repeat. If every direction you go, you see the same thing, it's not more, it's just more of the same. That's the real issue, rather than density. - Progression (incentive to pick up where you left off): With linear progression - like you've had with Outer Worlds - you can get back into the game and immediately pick up where you left off. If there is no narrative to get back into, you are not incentivized to continue a playthrough, because you either do not remember, or do not get the feel for what you were doing on your own, you can't get easily back into the same mindset. Then you get the idealized version in your head what you want to do next, but you'd rather do it with a new character, but that means repeating the boring parts too. So your new idea never comes to fruition because you are bogged down by the tedium of what you need to do, before you can do what you'd like to do, you abandon the character. Rinse, repeat. This literally stopped me from installing the Witcher 3 DLCs. I never played them.
Its not fatigue. Its disgust. I can replay Vice City. The mass effects and Elder scrolls games. Obvi the old fallouts. Rdr 1 and 2. A good open world will never get tiring. Its that the new open worlds are awful.
I just replayed Uncharted 4 and was so happy to just be able to play a tightly curated adventure. All games do not need open world and many that are would be better off if not. Also replayed Witcher 3 recently and I was astonished at how much new stuff I still found.
Wow! That is crazy! I literally just started an uncharted 4 playthrough last night and you brought it up! Witcher 3 is my favourite game of all time but uncharted 4 is in my top 10. It’s just so good. I can’t believe what the graphics were at the time, it was pretty groundbreaking but the story as well. It’s just an exceptional game and I wish naughty dog would drop another now lol I’ve finished U2 and 4 about 5 times each and 3 a good amount. The first one just stresses me out lol that jet ski part specifically lol
Fatigue can at least be partially alleviated by teaching yourself that you don't have to complete your video game all at once, but rather regulate your playing and continue playing the game in suitably sized small portions when you have time to play. In this way, the rushes of life, such as work, other hobbies and children, are not such a big cause of fatigue and stress.
Love this! Great advice! It’s the truth and once someone realised it and follows it, it will let them enjoy it even more! Why do you think people develop that? I’m far from an individual whi needs to do everything like ticking things off a list and video games is the only place where I find myself doing it.
Agree with almost all of your points. Great video. Lately, I've taken a different approach to open world games depending on where I am in the plot. If the situation is dire, I B-line it straight to the next story beat (as one would in real life). If things have simmered down, I look at what is available within reason relative to the story and the urgency of the main quest. Doing this makes the games feel like I have post game DLC baked into the original purchase (especially if there's level scaling). I want to point out two things however, there is a vast difference between an open world action game like grand theft auto, red dead redemption, and far cry, vs an open world rpg. Both meld into one another too frequently creating a Frankenstein's monster, but it certainly helps when you spot the difference. Ubisoft is the most notorious publisher for confusing it's fan base on this matter. Second, I genuinely believe that games with massive open worlds need to make the act of traversal itself fun and entertaining. The recent Zelda titles were phenomenal at this, triggering the childlike curiosity "can I climb that mountain? What's on the other side? Will I be able to cheese my stamina wheel on an iffy slope, or perhaps build something ridiculous to get me closer?" I think metal gear and to a lesser extent, death stranding attempted this as well, though not with the same WOW factor. Keep up the conversation, my dude!
Thank you very much for the kind words about the video! Yes I totally agree with all your points about so many open world games that you have to draw the line. The traversal is pivotal and if it’s basic (eg just walking) the content must be high. Starfield is an example of a game that did that wrong and then TOTK or BOTW like you said a good example of doing it right. Totally agree with what you’re saying and I think people still talk about the games with good open worlds even 15 years after release. For the more Ubisoft like ones, people move on and that’s that.
The towers is some of the worst design ever. It creates tunnel vision towards the tower, and then tunnel vision to the "most interesting" icons on the map you've just unveiled.
Yes exactly! I’m really not a big fan of it! A lot of videos have been done on TH-cam regarding this and I thought we would be passed this now but games keep doing it. I don’t understand why. Maybe someone, somewhere loves it but for me it bores me to tears. I want to discover stuff myself! If not, why have an open world? Exploration is the main reason!
11:07 this is why i love when games of this massive size have NG+, i feel like it gives me the freedom to make dumb decisions and complete checklists on future playthroughs.
In my opinion, I don’t think using a single google search thread from Reddit, with only 40+ comments is the best example to show “open world fatigue” from the masses. A thread which literally starts by saying “open world games get repetitive after completing the main quest”. For one, most open world games consist of many side quests that are sometimes equally enjoyable, if not more so, than the main quest line. And two, most open world games get boring after many hundreds of hours put into them. I think this video is a bit presumptuous. I personally love open world games and have even put over 1000 hours into Oblivion, Skyrim, Fallout 3, Fallout NV, Fallout 4, GTA 4 & 5, etc. Of course some games are going to drop the ball when it comes to consistently engaging players through hundreds to thousands of hours of gameplay, but that’s for the player to decide. The real problem, in my opinion, is the lack of actual roleplaying aspects of a game. More roleplaying usually equals more immersion for the player to lose themselves in. Just my two cents.
Honestly, yeah, it's so difficult to get into an open world game as it's probably a game for 70-150 hours with a big variety of different activities (not always nice to accomplish) and as years pass by it's getting more and more difficult to dive into those games even if they're interesting. I can say, I'm sticking to the much smaller games lately most of the time.
I'm going to play Devil's Advocate and argue there isn't really an "Open World Fatigue". There might be players complaining about open world games but as a whole, they are as popular as ever. *>"-1- Too many Open world games"."-3- Checklists and Towers."" -4- Distracts from the Story and Main Content"
I mean they're not wrong about Uncharted 1. Is it really such a surprise that the developers of glorified interactive movies would make a statement like that
@@CErra310 The point is still the wider context, not just Uncharted 1. In 2007, you could make a 5 hour shooter (or plaftormer or stealth game) that was still a "glorified interactive movie" and it would still sell well. The gamers of 2007 would consider that good value at full price. Wheras in 2024, fewer gamers would be willing to pay full price for that. But the more important point is that's not just Uncharted 1. Lots of smaller linear games are now considered unviable because they are smaller and linear. Ubisoft said the same thing regarding Splinter Cell, Prince of Persia and Rayman games. In 2005, the average gamer was willing to pay full price for a 5-10 hour Splinter Cell or Prince of Persia game. But fast forward just a few years later and that was no longer the case. Splinter Cell Double Agent (2006), Splinter Cell Conviction (2008), Splinter Cell Blacklist (2013), Prince of Persia (2008), Prince of Persia Forgotten Sands (2010) and Raylam Legends (2013) all sold below expectations. In contrast during that time, Assassin's Creed 1-4, Far Cry 3-4. Watch Dogs 1 etc all sold crazy well. The key reasoning Ubisoft gave was that the average gamer would rather play 15+ hour game that was open world than a 5-10 hour game that was linear. And it's hard to argue against that. The most mediocre and DLC like Assassin's Creed games of that time still sold better than better games like Rayman Legends, Blacklist and Prince of Persia. Even Santa Monica Studios said the same point. Which is why God of War 2018 is now open world. The last game, God of War Acension (2013) sold below expectations. That's why if you look back over the past 11 years or so, you'll find very few smaller linear games with no multiplayer that sold crazy well or entered the top 20 best selling games of the year. Of the top of my head, the only ones are the Resident Evil games and their remakes. If we allow linear singleplayer games with a multiplayer component, then we can add Uncharted 4 and TLOU1 to the list. And if we allow longer linear singleplayer games without a multiplayer component, then we can add TLOU2. In other words, the average gamer would rather choose an open world game over a linear one.
Good video. FF7 Rebirth justifies its open world with truly amazing combat that never gets old, and well crafted character interactions. Some of the fountains or summon caves are a bit hidden and it’s a bit of an exploration puzzle to figure out how to get to them, even if they are marked on the map. In that sense it is quite similar to Ghost of Tsushima with the foxes for instance. To me a big open world stops being fun if the gameplay systems within it are not fun.
I know ghost of Tsushima is highly regarded as the example of how to make an open world. They tried a lot of new things and it really paid off! It was good to see a company try to fix the problems set by previous games and try something new.
I completely agree with everything you said. Morrowind is my favorite because, along with having a cool design and a great story, it didn't lead me by the nose. I want to explore and discover things for myself.
I believe Tim Cain (one of the original creators of Fallout) has said that investors and publishers don't really like the idea of putting money and development time into content that the average player may never see. It makes sense, given the trajectory of the industry, how a lot of so-called 'open worlds' could have converged on the idea that they should really let you know where all that content is, just in case you miss it! I guess, then, that given the opportunity, publishers will optimise the fun out of a game...
That’s really interesting and I’ll look into those quotes as that could really prove the point and explain why these developers have gone this route. To be interested investors and publishers are the worst part of the industry.
@@AVVGaming1 I figured I should bring reciepts. I dug up this video from Tim Cain's TH-cam, probably the one I was remembering and really relevent to this video - Content as reward - th-cam.com/video/ZpGbO9qk4qw/w-d-xo.html Would reccommend watching his content, it's super insightful, and tbh he has a lot of really well-tempered takes on the industry as a former producer.
Yeah, having the ability to choose what quests, sidequests, characters, random events, areas, etc. is what an open world should be. Having freedom to decide which direction you want to go and what activities to do without traveling through a desolate/lifeless map. Always wait for real gameplay before buying.
Yes and I think us as gaming fans now, when we see an ad or trailer, and it’s cut scenes we’re yelling “where’s the gameplay!?”. It’s always a red flag if there isn’t any! What are they hiding? That’s my first thought!
open world lost their magic. in 2011 you played skyrim or gta 5 in 2013 , you were young, had time, experienced your first big open world. now that feeling of being new is gone, same big open world, same open world quests. i prefer a game like witcher 3 or cyberpunk where the openworld is just background and the story and the main missions are the focus. you arent forced to interact with the openworld. or a really small open world with lots of details like in ac unity is much better than too big bloated open worlds
@@heroldjaras9909 absolutely and I really despise checklists. When they show you everything on the map anyway, so there’s no exploration. It’s basically just busy work and turns the game into a chore. There’s no reason for it. I am sure some people like that, but it’s surely got to be a minority? Botw and Skyrim are still very popular on TH-cam because everything’s a secret? It’s the wonder of the open world and no knowing and comparing experiences that excite! And I totally agree with you. Recently I have been enjoying CDPRs take on an open world. Quality everywhere so it’s always worth doing.
I still like Bethesda-style open world games (Elder Scrolls or Fallout). When I played Skyrim (2016, not 2011), I wasn't that young and I still have the same time I had back then, since my job takes the same amount of time it took back then... 9 hours are still 9 hours. I prefer playing a game for hundreds of hours than play 20 games for a few tens of hours and the open world format gives me that flexibility to do all sorts of things when I want, how I want. Plus, I can stop whenever I want, instead of having a set ending forced on me. I've played some non-open world games post-Skyrim and I keep thinking I want to see more of that world, but the games blocked me from doing so.
I mostly like good open world games and the freedom they give you. But I think freedom sometimes comes with a cost. Comparing Dark Souls to Elden Ring: I still vividly remember, during my first dark souls playthrough, the tension and fear I felt while descending into blighttown after finishing the depths. With every ladder firelink shrine was farther away. There was no short trip to Andre to upgrade my weapon. I was stuck with what I had. With elden ring exploration was without real consequences. I could always teleport away and do something else. The only exception were the dungeons but if I died there I could just choose to respawn at the grace at the beginning of the dungeon and do something else. The only cost of that choice were some runes. Being stuck at a bonfire in blighttown or the Catacombs felt very different
I gave thumbs up. But you went 17 minutes without saying the word "Fallout". That franchise has at least three titles possessing the qualities you think necessary for a successful open world game. Open world fatigue? These days, when I grow tired of Skyrim, I put it aside and return to one of my Fallout games, which will receive enough play time that I begin longing for the streets of Whiterun or still undiscovered canyons in Falkreath Hold, and The Reach. I might have to check out Breath of the Wild
Some great points. Would a solution be for Ubisoft and others to give people like yourself options that would allow you to not see side quest markers etc and have to discover them yourself? Sort of like an Exploration level of difficulty? Obviously that wouldn't fix all your issues, but might help? Personally i love Valhalla and the way it saves me time exploration wise by being able to see where World Mysteries and Events are etc and I can decide where to go. I don't enjoy just randomly wandering. The only game that pulled that off for me was Skyrim. Hated how much time I wasted in rdr2.
Open world games can be good or bad. What causes fatigue is checklists. Period. Jesus, checklists are an insanely bad design practice. Even creating too many side quests with a quest log can lead to checklist fatigue.
One issue I'm finding a lot of these huge games is the sheer amount of repetition. This does include Skyrim which feels like the same gameplay in a loop. Assassin's Creed Odyssey is huge, but every town starts to feel kind of the same with a few exceptions. Travelling to a new place on the map becomes less exciting when it looks pretty much the same as places you've been to already. The asset repetition becomes very obvious. It's the chain shops of the gaming world. Every town you come to having the same chain shops, Boots, WH Smith, Tesco in my case.
@@loosegoose2466 literally on the way! I’m already deep into it and caught all my footage! It’s my third next video but they’re gonna come out back to back real quick!
@AVVGaming1 I'm really enjoying it. I'm playing it and it's got all these wonderfully handcrafted semi open world content that's so much fun and a story that's respectful of the source material ...and I'm thinking I can't wait to hear what you make of it because you taught me to appreciate that stuff ...also how having that in a game causes us to overlook some of its flaws too.its really what a lot us love. Nice way to finish the year. Good on you bethesda and machine games and really looking forward as always to your videos.
Yes! Totally agree! I get burned out from that and it ends up not being fun! It’s like I’m doing chores. I want to find stuff! Give me a map, put stuff everywhere and let me figure this out! lol
To me there is a difference between open world and open map games. The open map games is simply a map with tons of activities better or worse and frequently linear narrative structure. The open world are games with many systems working with each other, giving player the tools, and not limiting the player, you had a annoying quest giver asking you to kill someone, kill the quest giver instead and see how it will impact the game world. They have higher degrees of freedom. A sad example is SW outlaws. It gets all that is bad in UBI games and puts it into one game: during the mission you have an artificial mission area blocked by red circle, ai is dumb, limited intersection with the world itself, binary stealth if you are seen then fail state. And the most sad part is UBI had previous games mixing stealth and action on a good level, so they for sure could do better.
I love open world especially the Oblivions/Skyrim type. The problem is the original devs of these good ones have left and the people they hire now aren't in it for the passion, they're in it for the DEI. Now they have procedural generation they've become lazy.
The shotcallers who are responsible for awful design decisions like procgen world design are people like Howard and Pagliarulo. Truly dastardly DEI hires
I'm not sure about you but I never get tired of open worlds. I like to just explore and do whatever I want like fishing, gathering food and riding on horseback as long as the games allow those
@@AVVGaming1 Skyrim, RDR2 and Breath of the Wild/Tears of the Kingdom. Games like Watch_Dogs don't interest me very much, because there's not a whole lot to do outside of missions, activities and interacting the world with hacks. You can't really interact with the world in more relatable ways like eating at restaurants
Yes it’s like there’s no reason to keep playing it again. And it means your second playthrough will be identical to your first. The best part of replaying an open world game is the hope of finding something different next time around!
I don't really understand this "don't have the time" argument. It's not like there's a time limit on the games. Ok, some have other things to do. I'm one such person, but on the other hand, I can play when I can and finish it when I can/want. This isn't a race. Instead of playing 10 games/year, I usually play something like 1-3 new games, but I play them for longer and that's it.
I actually think that’s probably the best way. If you get a 100 hour open world game and take a year to explore it, enjoy it, live in it, You’ll love it! I think some people, myself included, just love games so much we get too many lol. October has been one of those months for sure! What, in your opinion, is the best open world game you’ve played?
@@AVVGaming1 Skyrim is the best for me, because it's the one that opened my appetite and really felt like a revelation in shaping my gaming tastes. Keep in mind that I've been playing video games since 1993, so for 31 years. I've played games from the 8-bit era (the first game I ever played was called Harrier Attack) so it's not like Skyrim was my first game ever, but it was definitely a turning point regarding my tastes. The perfect game for me would be an Elder Scrolls-style world and Elden Ring-style combat. And yes, that is exactly what I'm looking for: a world to live in. Some of my favourite moments that brought me back to Skyrim again and again were things like listening to the music while on the road and that feeling of sitting by the fire in an inn and just reading an in game book.
For me, the main reason is i have a job so i don't have much time to explore. Being adult sucks but im still playing relaxing game like cities skylines or truck simulator
Hey I got a question on that actually! Have you ever played watch dogs 2? It’s based in California too open world lol GTA. I just tried it again and it’s actually very good for an Ubisoft game! What’s your take? If you’ve played it?
I think the biggest problem with open worlds is that they replaced innovation. Instead of coming up with new exciting mechanics, developers are just trying to make bigger and bigger maps. That's why a lot of people prefer indie games. Indie devs don't have the resources to make large maps so instead they have to make interesting gameplay.
Thank you! I have played it many times already and done a few videos on it as well. I gave it “gamings greatest comeback “ title as well! Such a great game!
I loved rebirth but the open world got exhausting real fast with doing all side missions and activities just over stayed its welcome and would have been better if they were open areas you could explore rather than the massive regions they were it dragged in bits and pieces for me
People love open worlds because it allows us to explore. People love to explore. If there is nothing to explore or find then whats the use. I world rather have a smaller map with unique crafted content.
@@SourPatches2077 100% agree with you! It’s vital that the map be detailed and full of content. Those giant open worlds that are empty just are not enjoyable to me. What do you consider the game with the best open world map?
@ Skyrim was pretty, red dead redemption 2 is the most beautiful, but I think for “oh shit what the hell is this “ moments I will go with Fallout New Vegas. Spent hours combing every part of that map looking for interesting sites. I agree with you 100% that a map shouldn’t have the stuff marked on it before you find it. I like opening up a map.
I am pretty sure that with AI's further development, the problem of "dull and empty big maps" will be resolved because AI will fill them with permanently generated interconnected/interchangeable activities. The open world doesn't cause fatigue; dullness and boringness do.
The overworlds of The Outer Worlds were, also, incredibly dull, and the distances seemed too far all the time. I spent dozens of minutes traversing boring landscapes full of nothing but enemy fights. And the enemies were all dull, too!
I liked the concept of outer worlds. I liked the way it was broken into smaller portions and like mini planets. The dialogue, role playing, companions, quests and cities I really thought were good, but I do Agree with you on the open world aspect. It was okay, but it didn’t excite me. It may have been the colours? That being said, I know they had limited time and resources for this game so maybe in TOW2 they will add to the open world parts? What would you say is a good space setting open world?
@AVVGaming1 They should've taken a single planet and fleshed it out more. I would've loved reasons to explore every nook and cranny. Instead, there were just empty expanses between locations with nothing to explore. Either there was nothing to see or everything was closed. Made the trek boring.
*its up to the double and single A developers to make the small games with big content because clearly AAA isn't gonna do it 👎 Forgotten City, Outer Wilds, RICO, Empire Of Sin, Cuphead are all fantastic small games made by small time developers.....and there's also the classics from back in the day, Bully, GTA Trilogy, Far Cry 2 and 3, Killer Is Dead, Saints Row 1 2 and 3, Forza Horizon, Splinter Cell Conviction, Blacklist and Double Agent 👌 older games are really where its at now.*
Even if you have no other responsibilities and game 8 hours per day, every day for 50 years, you'd still not have enough time to complete more than 10% of the current games on steam. Realistically, less than 1% once we add in the ones that will be released over the next 50 years. You have to be very choosy with how best to spend your gaming time. Life is simply to short to play ubisoft games
My biggest problem of open world game is absolutely the size. Oh look out game is 3 times the size of previous game. Ok but did you fill it with stuff to do? Of course not, you need to spend at least 20 just walking. No thanks.
Yeah I really hate those huge open spaces with nothing in them. Especially if it’s all on foot and there’s no unique details. It’s just fields. It’s frustrating for sure. I like open worlds like Skyrim, Yakuza, basically brimming with content every way I look. But that’s just a personal preference lol what’s your ideal example of a great open world game?
@@AVVGaming1 my favorite open world game has to be kingdom come deliverance. And even more so with the second game thats coming out. With little funding they had they did an amazing job with the map and how you play in it. You can run from one side to the next extremely fast with a good horse. Every quest lets you explore the entire map without showing you. You have have to listen to the quest giver to know where you need to go for most.
Wide as an ocean deep as a puddle. Having a larger game just to do more exposition is poor choice. On top of that such games often have tons of markers with repetitive content. I would rather see smaller open world with systems interacting with each other and the player, branching narrative paths (including possibility to kill quest givers), more attention to detail (like in some older Bethesda games where showing in one faction armor at the others door step people were commenting on it).
@@mravg79 yeah i absolutely agree. Id rather have an ok map size that is interesting that pulls me in. I almost 100% assassin's creed odyssey and it was the worst time of my gaming life. Until i played Valhalla which i couldn't even get 15% through before uninstalling it.
lol not trying to start a fight. I just used it as an example of a series that switched from linear to open world later. Both were great games! Not saying anything negative about any of those two gamesn
I don’t think it’s a fatigue, just more care needs to be put into open world games. Awesome video mate!
Thank you mate! I think a studio has
To be willing to see content missed. That’s the trick. Like BG3, a single player cannot see even 80% of the content as there’s no way to see it all on one playthrough or two. Same with open worlds like Skyrim, you’re gonna miss a lot of content as you’re exploring and it’s got so much to see. But that’s what’s special! When studios like Ubisoft sign post every thing, it changed it from an adventure of exploration to a long list of “to dos” to get through lol
Agreed, for example in TotK, i think it would be a lot better if the tears were a full questline like Skyrim;
When you find the first tear, impa reveals a room in the forgotten temple with a map to every memory... Certain tears ruin the story if you find them early, so if you gatekept the memory by requiring tears be gathered and taken to the temple itself to generate cutscenes in order it would have solved 2 issues, otherwise the game only really has 2 interconnected questlines or so, and about half the areas have no dungeon quest despite having locations like Akkala and Hyrule field where bosses were previously present like Wargs for a horseback fight or something. The Pirate quests are one of the few great questlines in the game not required* to beat Ganon.
Edit:* I say "not required" but "not related" may be more accurate as very little is "required" just like BotW.
The problem with most open world games are they are full of wasted potentials. The only dev's that do it really well before are Rockstar and CDPR and both of them are far from perfect, I like CDPR stories but their side activities are half assed. Rockstar's side activities are well made, but their stories are not as good as CDPR.
@@zupremo9141 yes I think CDPR needs to find a replacement for the ?s in Witcher 3 and the NCPDs in cyberpunk. They were both fine. Not bad, but not great. Idk what they put there instead though.
No, it's fatigue. These worlds are just too big. Many of us long for tighter experiences.
You're going to tell RPG players you can just leave a quest undone. The people who check every room like they lost a contact lens.
Funny story my wife played ff7 rebirth first and complained about the open world checklist stuff. I told her, just leave it! She didn’t. She couldn’t. I then played it and couldn’t leave it either! I literally couldn’t even follow my own advice! There’s something in us as gamers that need to check every corner, every inch. Some kind of requirement cuz imagine moving on leaving an area with 1 thing left undone? I’d lose bloody sleep over it! lol
I check every room because you never know what important item you might find. Like a key that you'd have to use to unlock some door on the other corner of the map. This habit has been basically taught to us by game designers. It's not a personal natural habit.
@@AVVGaming1gaming OCD 😂
This is why I generally don't want to replay open world games: going through every inch again just isn't what I'd call fun and fulfilling.
That compulsion to barge into every npc home when playing an rpg
The idea that these games don't need to have good combat, story, progression or anything else other than a world is utter bullshit in my opinion. The reason for why "Bethesda magic" never worked on me is that, 10 hours into Skyrim, I stopped entering random caves I found on the wayside because I already knew what was going to be inside: shitty combat against boring enemies for boring loot that I didn't need anyway because crafting professions are overpowered as fuck and there is nothing to spend gold on so there's no point to hauling any of it back for selling either.
Open World games started dying when they utilized the growth in console hardware and began to rely on pure excess of how much stuff there is to do in them while completely neglecting that the actual doing is soulcrushingly fucking boring and inconsequential.
Anything Bethesda has made between Morrowind and Starfield are the poster children of this, while Starfield is the consequence of Bethesda buying into its own bullshit and thinking that its gameplay is good enough that it can sustain playing through procedurally generated maps.
Exactly.
Bars
The illusion of open world, mostly in the form of freely connected hub worlds, is much better for immersion. Mass Effect, KOTOR, Deus Ex, FF1-9, VtM:B.
I say that we are in NEED of more, good open world games. Freggin tired of all of these low effort Souls-likes!
What do you consider the three best examples of open world games, and then 3 poor efforts?
@@AVVGaming1 I am an Obsidian STAN, so most of their games (Fallout New Vegas, The Outer Worlds) OG Bioware stuff as well (KOTOR 1 & 2, Mass effect 2). I even enjoyed a game like Rage 2.
First off, thank you for a very thought provoking and concise video. I think, at end, it's not so much the open world games that are fatiguing as it is half-ass, watered down versions of an open world game that gets old. I played Oblivion at a bad time in my life. I was laid up for 6 months, had next to no resources and was bored out of my skull. Had quit gaming (for bad reasons) a few years earlier but a friend saw my situation and brought over an xbox 360 with a copy of Oblivion. I played that game every day for 10 to 15 hours for the whole time I was healing. I was absolutely amazed at the sheer amount of content contained on that one disc. I still play thru it once every year or two and still, after twenty or so full playthroughs, find new and undiscovered things in the game. This is what makes open worlds so much fun. Not checking off items from a list before leaving each area. This is getting long so just gonna say good vid
You’re absolutely spot on and thank you for sharing your story and the kind words about the video. I agree with you that the concept of finding something new gives you the 10 to 14 hours a day of content. It’s the searching that’s the fun part. But if you switched on oblivion and every dungeon, side quest etc was already marked on your map, it takes away that excitement! It makes it bland. Developers have to take the risk people will miss a lot of content they made, but that’s what makes the game mysterious and people play it for forever, as opposed to a year!
A great analysis. Thanks for the video.
You’re welcome and thank you very much for the kind feedback!
Witcher 3, Cyberpunk 2077 and Kingdom Come Deliverance is the way to go. I prefer open worlds with great main/side quests and fantastic writing and lore. Presentation also plays a huge part which CDPR nailed both in W3 and C2077 and where Bethesda always f**ks up
What do you mean with Bethesda f*ing up presentation? One thing they did right with Starfield was presentation, right?
@@march8482 🤦♂️really? You're hopeless. I have nothing to say
I agree with what you’re saying 100%. Honestly, Witcher 3 is my favourite game of all time. It’s just perfection. Cyberpunk is rihht up there. And kingdom come….well let’s just say when it drops in Feb next year, I’m taking a week off work to just play it. It really was a perfect open world game as Wel. Damn! You got good taste!
Cyberpunk 2077...Yeah, the level isn't that high... Oh, The witcher 3...LOL
Your channel blowing up in 3..2..1.. Great content.
Thank you very much! Here’s hoping! I just keep making videos and hoping they hit. I just write what I would want to see. I’m trying to do two videos a week now! It’s tiring but I am enjoying it a lot! Thanks for your support on every video as well!
@@AVVGaming1 Just keep up with it, your consistency will be vital to your channel's success. Just keep up, the quality of your videos is great from the start unlike some other channels that grew over time.
@@Mac2104988 thank you so much! I will keep doing it and try to keep the content good! My goal soon is to save up for a new computer, microphone and then get a new editing software and upgrade the quality. But don’t want to lose the human element of it. Some videos on TH-cam I feel are over produced and lose that authenticity. I hope to strike a balance!
@@AVVGaming1 I honestly think you don't need a new anything, videos you made so far are beyond great. But, if you need to convince your significant other that you need new equipment I'm all for it 😄
Oblivion’s music hits me with nostalgia like a damn truck each time. Vague memories of watching older brothers play this and me stumbling along a few tries.
LOWERRRR THE GATES
sometimes you don't want a huge game, sometimes you want a simple short but heartful experience
Honestly, I still prefer open world games. It's one of my regular key requirements to even consider getting a game.
Good point though. My love for the deadspace games is right up there with my fave bathesda games. And each deadspace is over within 10-15 hours.
I have played some games, but are absolutely not as experienced as many other gamers. When I first played Cyberpunk I didn't realise NCPD Scanner activities was unique quest like activities and didn't do them. I had a blast playing the game and really loved the world. Replaying it, I discovered NCPD scanner for what it was, played those things too. I noticed I was leveling up far too quickly with that, and it got repetitive very quickly.
What I take from that is to do what I find is fun to do. Now I play Mass Effect and the game wants me to scan 20 something robots at the Citadel. I will scan them when I see them but will absolutely not run around looking for them if I find it boring, and it's ok for me not to finish that particular quest.
Great analysis. Thank you for this video.
You know what games had great open worlds, The Yakuza games. Now I'll admit I haven't kept up with those games so I don't know how the newer entries are, but the older once had small densely packed worlds with so much to do and something new around ever street corner. You never get tired of walking around in those games, which is pretty funny because those worlds are really small but it never feels that way. Great games for sure.
Also, that poor adoring fan. All he wanted was warship the ground we walked on, and all we did was find creative ways to kill him.
Haha the poor adoring fan! I remember when I was young he was the only companion I could find in the game and he was useless. Died at first sight of enemy lol and it’s crazy you mention the Yakuza games. Infinite wealth, the most recent instalment was my first ever yakuza game and it inspired me to make a TH-cam channel and it was my first video. Without yakuza I wouldn’t be doing this. I’ve now played quite a lot from the series and I completely agree with you. Their open worlds are smaller than like a GTA, but are packed with content. That’s why I love them so much. I honestly wish more games did worlds like that. You could essentially enter every shop and restaurant. If you like turn based combat I would recommend the most recent instalment, it was top quality!
@@AVVGaming1 I really should play the newest one shouldn't I, but I just don't have the time at the moment for gaming. I haven't even had the time to play Fallout London yet, I even bought fallout 4 again on GoG for the easy install but I just can't find the time to play.
I should go back and watch your first video as well, I've seen all of them from the moment I subbed to you but I haven't see the few you made before I did.
Batman Arkham Asylum, Saints Row 2, and Saints row 4 are my favorite examples of open world games.
I'm okay with missing out on things, (maybe), but these games never make me feel like I'm missing out on anything, and they have very distinct identities and feel like they know what they are, what they're capable of and what they're doing.
I'll make a video essay about all of these, someday, and thank you for the video, and channel, I'll make a video essay on that, too, someday.
Share it once you’re done! I’d love to see your video! I’m a huge fan of discussing these topics so love to see other video game fans work too!
Arkham Asylum is no OW game, dafuq?!
@@sacredsecrecy9620 oh, right, my bad. It's a metroidvania, if I remember correctly. Right?
Honestly, people need to start reading more books, like science fiction and fantasy. There are some really amazing reads out there that you can get lost in. Maybe some of them will then get adapted to film or video games.
I think if open world games are gonna succeed, they need to start with a great story.
I think BG3 is a fantastic example of a game packed with content that the devs know not every player will experience. Thats what takes that game to the next level. Its no longer a checklist, now its a modern adventure.
Discovery in an open world cannot be understated. The hell is the point of an open world if you're going to take the exploration element out of it. If you don't have the skills to fill an open world with meaningful content then you shouldn't be making an open world game in the first place.
Exactly my feelings! It’s almost like filler content? It’s just like constant sign posting eveutning you can find, 1000 pop ups telling you where to go, and it just seems like busy work and tires me out quickly. For me the perfect open world should have a lot in it, but make the player discover it themselves, or not! That’s what makes an open world game so exciting, the concept of finding something new! Something no one else has found. That’s why you can make videos like “100 secrets in Skyrim or botw” and people will watch cuz there’s so much hidden there! It takes dedication to find. Games who mark everything just want to make sure the players don’t miss any content, but at the same time it takes away the exploration point.
I was so sad when TOTK came out, because this video described my feelings exactly.
How do you mean? How was your experience with TOTK?
It felt so open and empty. I had no desire to explore the depths because it was just the same. The sky islands were the same aswell. It was just a missed opportunity. Plus playing through BOTW before, just caused burn out. Maybe if they eventually come out with master mode and extra content would be the only reason to re visit TOtK.
The BEST open world game ever, is Outer Wilds (not the outer worlds) Outer wilds is just so amazing. It is truly "open" there is not a single spot in the game that you cannot go to from the beginning. There are no unlockable items, or abilities, the only thing you gain is knowledge
I have to confess…I’ve never played it. And I’ve heard nothing but similar praise! I think it’s time!
@@AVVGaming1 I think it is!
My top 2:
- Environment variety (or lack thereof):
Skyrim still feels to me like the biggest open world map I've ever played in, because the environments are all different, you have these mini-biomes that never repeat. If every direction you go, you see the same thing, it's not more, it's just more of the same. That's the real issue, rather than density.
- Progression (incentive to pick up where you left off):
With linear progression - like you've had with Outer Worlds - you can get back into the game and immediately pick up where you left off. If there is no narrative to get back into, you are not incentivized to continue a playthrough, because you either do not remember, or do not get the feel for what you were doing on your own, you can't get easily back into the same mindset. Then you get the idealized version in your head what you want to do next, but you'd rather do it with a new character, but that means repeating the boring parts too. So your new idea never comes to fruition because you are bogged down by the tedium of what you need to do, before you can do what you'd like to do, you abandon the character. Rinse, repeat. This literally stopped me from installing the Witcher 3 DLCs. I never played them.
Its not fatigue. Its disgust. I can replay Vice City. The mass effects and Elder scrolls games. Obvi the old fallouts. Rdr 1 and 2. A good open world will never get tiring. Its that the new open worlds are awful.
I just replayed Uncharted 4 and was so happy to just be able to play a tightly curated adventure. All games do not need open world and many that are would be better off if not. Also replayed Witcher 3 recently and I was astonished at how much new stuff I still found.
Wow! That is crazy! I literally just started an uncharted 4 playthrough last night and you brought it up! Witcher 3 is my favourite game of all time but uncharted 4 is in my top 10. It’s just so good. I can’t believe what the graphics were at the time, it was pretty groundbreaking but the story as well. It’s just an exceptional game and I wish naughty dog would drop another now lol I’ve finished U2 and 4 about 5 times each and 3 a good amount. The first one just stresses me out lol that jet ski part specifically lol
Fatigue can at least be partially alleviated by teaching yourself that you don't have to complete your video game all at once, but rather regulate your playing and continue playing the game in suitably sized small portions when you have time to play. In this way, the rushes of life, such as work, other hobbies and children, are not such a big cause of fatigue and stress.
Love this! Great advice! It’s the truth and once someone realised it and follows it, it will let them enjoy it even more! Why do you think people develop that? I’m far from an individual whi needs to do everything like ticking things off a list and video games is the only place where I find myself doing it.
Agree with almost all of your points. Great video. Lately, I've taken a different approach to open world games depending on where I am in the plot. If the situation is dire, I B-line it straight to the next story beat (as one would in real life). If things have simmered down, I look at what is available within reason relative to the story and the urgency of the main quest. Doing this makes the games feel like I have post game DLC baked into the original purchase (especially if there's level scaling). I want to point out two things however, there is a vast difference between an open world action game like grand theft auto, red dead redemption, and far cry, vs an open world rpg. Both meld into one another too frequently creating a Frankenstein's monster, but it certainly helps when you spot the difference. Ubisoft is the most notorious publisher for confusing it's fan base on this matter. Second, I genuinely believe that games with massive open worlds need to make the act of traversal itself fun and entertaining. The recent Zelda titles were phenomenal at this, triggering the childlike curiosity "can I climb that mountain? What's on the other side? Will I be able to cheese my stamina wheel on an iffy slope, or perhaps build something ridiculous to get me closer?" I think metal gear and to a lesser extent, death stranding attempted this as well, though not with the same WOW factor. Keep up the conversation, my dude!
Thank you very much for the kind words about the video! Yes I totally agree with all your points about so many open world games that you have to draw the line. The traversal is pivotal and if it’s basic (eg just walking) the content must be high. Starfield is an example of a game that did that wrong and then TOTK or BOTW like you said a good example of doing it right. Totally agree with what you’re saying and I think people still talk about the games with good open worlds even 15 years after release. For the more Ubisoft like ones, people move on and that’s that.
The towers is some of the worst design ever. It creates tunnel vision towards the tower, and then tunnel vision to the "most interesting" icons on the map you've just unveiled.
Yes exactly! I’m really not a big fan of it! A lot of videos have been done on TH-cam regarding this and I thought we would be passed this now but games keep doing it. I don’t understand why. Maybe someone, somewhere loves it but for me it bores me to tears. I want to discover stuff myself! If not, why have an open world? Exploration is the main reason!
11:07 this is why i love when games of this massive size have NG+, i feel like it gives me the freedom to make dumb decisions and complete checklists on future playthroughs.
In my opinion, I don’t think using a single google search thread from Reddit, with only 40+ comments is the best example to show “open world fatigue” from the masses. A thread which literally starts by saying “open world games get repetitive after completing the main quest”. For one, most open world games consist of many side quests that are sometimes equally enjoyable, if not more so, than the main quest line. And two, most open world games get boring after many hundreds of hours put into them. I think this video is a bit presumptuous. I personally love open world games and have even put over 1000 hours into Oblivion, Skyrim, Fallout 3, Fallout NV, Fallout 4, GTA 4 & 5, etc.
Of course some games are going to drop the ball when it comes to consistently engaging players through hundreds to thousands of hours of gameplay, but that’s for the player to decide. The real problem, in my opinion, is the lack of actual roleplaying aspects of a game. More roleplaying usually equals more immersion for the player to lose themselves in. Just my two cents.
Honestly, yeah, it's so difficult to get into an open world game as it's probably a game for 70-150 hours with a big variety of different activities (not always nice to accomplish) and as years pass by it's getting more and more difficult to dive into those games even if they're interesting.
I can say, I'm sticking to the much smaller games lately most of the time.
I'm going to play Devil's Advocate and argue there isn't really an "Open World Fatigue". There might be players complaining about open world games but as a whole, they are as popular as ever.
*>"-1- Too many Open world games"."-3- Checklists and Towers."" -4- Distracts from the Story and Main Content"
I mean they're not wrong about Uncharted 1.
Is it really such a surprise that the developers of glorified interactive movies would make a statement like that
@@CErra310
The point is still the wider context, not just Uncharted 1. In 2007, you could make a 5 hour shooter (or plaftormer or stealth game) that was still a "glorified interactive movie" and it would still sell well. The gamers of 2007 would consider that good value at full price. Wheras in 2024, fewer gamers would be willing to pay full price for that.
But the more important point is that's not just Uncharted 1. Lots of smaller linear games are now considered unviable because they are smaller and linear.
Ubisoft said the same thing regarding Splinter Cell, Prince of Persia and Rayman games. In 2005, the average gamer was willing to pay full price for a 5-10 hour Splinter Cell or Prince of Persia game. But fast forward just a few years later and that was no longer the case. Splinter Cell Double Agent (2006), Splinter Cell Conviction (2008), Splinter Cell Blacklist (2013), Prince of Persia (2008), Prince of Persia Forgotten Sands (2010) and Raylam Legends (2013) all sold below expectations.
In contrast during that time, Assassin's Creed 1-4, Far Cry 3-4. Watch Dogs 1 etc all sold crazy well.
The key reasoning Ubisoft gave was that the average gamer would rather play 15+ hour game that was open world than a 5-10 hour game that was linear. And it's hard to argue against that. The most mediocre and DLC like Assassin's Creed games of that time still sold better than better games like Rayman Legends, Blacklist and Prince of Persia.
Even Santa Monica Studios said the same point. Which is why God of War 2018 is now open world. The last game, God of War Acension (2013) sold below expectations.
That's why if you look back over the past 11 years or so, you'll find very few smaller linear games with no multiplayer that sold crazy well or entered the top 20 best selling games of the year. Of the top of my head, the only ones are the Resident Evil games and their remakes. If we allow linear singleplayer games with a multiplayer component, then we can add Uncharted 4 and TLOU1 to the list. And if we allow longer linear singleplayer games without a multiplayer component, then we can add TLOU2.
In other words, the average gamer would rather choose an open world game over a linear one.
Good video. FF7 Rebirth justifies its open world with truly amazing combat that never gets old, and well crafted character interactions. Some of the fountains or summon caves are a bit hidden and it’s a bit of an exploration puzzle to figure out how to get to them, even if they are marked on the map. In that sense it is quite similar to Ghost of Tsushima with the foxes for instance.
To me a big open world stops being fun if the gameplay systems within it are not fun.
I know ghost of Tsushima is highly regarded as the example of how to make an open world. They tried a lot of new things and it really paid off! It was good to see a company try to fix the problems set by previous games and try something new.
I completely agree with everything you said. Morrowind is my favorite because, along with having a cool design and a great story, it didn't lead me by the nose. I want to explore and discover things for myself.
I believe Tim Cain (one of the original creators of Fallout) has said that investors and publishers don't really like the idea of putting money and development time into content that the average player may never see. It makes sense, given the trajectory of the industry, how a lot of so-called 'open worlds' could have converged on the idea that they should really let you know where all that content is, just in case you miss it!
I guess, then, that given the opportunity, publishers will optimise the fun out of a game...
That’s really interesting and I’ll look into those quotes as that could really prove the point and explain why these developers have gone this route. To be interested investors and publishers are the worst part of the industry.
@@AVVGaming1 I figured I should bring reciepts. I dug up this video from Tim Cain's TH-cam, probably the one I was remembering and really relevent to this video -
Content as reward - th-cam.com/video/ZpGbO9qk4qw/w-d-xo.html
Would reccommend watching his content, it's super insightful, and tbh he has a lot of really well-tempered takes on the industry as a former producer.
Yeah, having the ability to choose what quests, sidequests, characters, random events, areas, etc. is what an open world should be. Having freedom to decide which direction you want to go and what activities to do without traveling through a desolate/lifeless map. Always wait for real gameplay before buying.
Yes and I think us as gaming fans now, when we see an ad or trailer, and it’s cut scenes we’re yelling “where’s the gameplay!?”. It’s always a red flag if there isn’t any! What are they hiding? That’s my first thought!
open world lost their magic. in 2011 you played skyrim or gta 5 in 2013 , you were young, had time, experienced your first big open world. now that feeling of being new is gone, same big open world, same open world quests. i prefer a game like witcher 3 or cyberpunk where the openworld is just background and the story and the main missions are the focus. you arent forced to interact with the openworld. or a really small open world with lots of details like in ac unity is much better than too big bloated open worlds
@@heroldjaras9909 absolutely and I really despise checklists. When they show you everything on the map anyway, so there’s no exploration. It’s basically just busy work and turns the game into a chore. There’s no reason for it. I am sure some people like that, but it’s surely got to be a minority? Botw and Skyrim are still very popular on TH-cam because everything’s a secret? It’s the wonder of the open world and no knowing and comparing experiences that excite! And I totally agree with you. Recently I have been enjoying CDPRs take on an open world. Quality everywhere so it’s always worth doing.
I still like Bethesda-style open world games (Elder Scrolls or Fallout). When I played Skyrim (2016, not 2011), I wasn't that young and I still have the same time I had back then, since my job takes the same amount of time it took back then... 9 hours are still 9 hours. I prefer playing a game for hundreds of hours than play 20 games for a few tens of hours and the open world format gives me that flexibility to do all sorts of things when I want, how I want. Plus, I can stop whenever I want, instead of having a set ending forced on me. I've played some non-open world games post-Skyrim and I keep thinking I want to see more of that world, but the games blocked me from doing so.
I mostly like good open world games and the freedom they give you. But I think freedom sometimes comes with a cost.
Comparing Dark Souls to Elden Ring:
I still vividly remember, during my first dark souls playthrough, the tension and fear I felt while descending into blighttown after finishing the depths. With every ladder firelink shrine was farther away. There was no short trip to Andre to upgrade my weapon. I was stuck with what I had.
With elden ring exploration was without real consequences. I could always teleport away and do something else. The only exception were the dungeons but if I died there I could just choose to respawn at the grace at the beginning of the dungeon and do something else. The only cost of that choice were some runes.
Being stuck at a bonfire in blighttown or the Catacombs felt very different
I gave thumbs up.
But you went 17 minutes without saying the word "Fallout". That franchise has at least three titles possessing the qualities you think necessary for a successful open world game.
Open world fatigue? These days, when I grow tired of Skyrim, I put it aside and return to one of my Fallout games, which will receive enough play time that I begin longing for the streets of Whiterun or still undiscovered canyons in Falkreath Hold, and The Reach. I might have to check out Breath of the Wild
Fallout ❤
Some great points. Would a solution be for Ubisoft and others to give people like yourself options that would allow you to not see side quest markers etc and have to discover them yourself? Sort of like an Exploration level of difficulty? Obviously that wouldn't fix all your issues, but might help? Personally i love Valhalla and the way it saves me time exploration wise by being able to see where World Mysteries and Events are etc and I can decide where to go. I don't enjoy just randomly wandering. The only game that pulled that off for me was Skyrim. Hated how much time I wasted in rdr2.
True open world > Walking Simulator
It should feel like backpacking through europe, not the midwest.
I love that analogy! It’s spot on! Man! I wish I had this comment when I made it, it would go in the video for sure! Totally agree with you!
Open world games can be good or bad. What causes fatigue is checklists. Period. Jesus, checklists are an insanely bad design practice. Even creating too many side quests with a quest log can lead to checklist fatigue.
*Cough* Skyrim *cough*
@@Wanderlust2430 Skyrim did give me hard fatigue.. ended up just rushing the main story to get it over with.
@@tenorenstrom I just straight uninstalled it and went back to oblivion.
Yes skyrim definitely has this problem but to be honest I just like to explore don't worry about my quests too much anymore
One issue I'm finding a lot of these huge games is the sheer amount of repetition. This does include Skyrim which feels like the same gameplay in a loop. Assassin's Creed Odyssey is huge, but every town starts to feel kind of the same with a few exceptions.
Travelling to a new place on the map becomes less exciting when it looks pretty much the same as places you've been to already. The asset repetition becomes very obvious.
It's the chain shops of the gaming world. Every town you come to having the same chain shops, Boots, WH Smith, Tesco in my case.
Mate you gotta do a video on the Indiana Jones game, would love to hear your thoughts after this video
@@loosegoose2466 literally on the way! I’m already deep into it and caught all my footage! It’s my third next video but they’re gonna come out back to back real quick!
@AVVGaming1 awesome...I was thinking about the channel when I was playing kit
@ oh that’s awesome! I got a few videos coming out soon. What you think of it? I think it’s very good!
@AVVGaming1 I'm really enjoying it. I'm playing it and it's got all these wonderfully handcrafted semi open world content that's so much fun and a story that's respectful of the source material ...and I'm thinking I can't wait to hear what you make of it because you taught me to appreciate that stuff ...also how having that in a game causes us to overlook some of its flaws too.its really what a lot us love. Nice way to finish the year. Good on you bethesda and machine games and really looking forward as always to your videos.
Interested in what you think about Valhiem , massive open world , no real quests orher than defeating the 8 boss's . Best game i've played since RDR2
I'd much MUCH rather have a smaller map with high quality content than a huge map filled with voting copy and paste quests...
Yes! Totally agree! I get burned out from that and it ends up not being fun! It’s like I’m doing chores. I want to find stuff! Give me a map, put stuff everywhere and let me figure this out! lol
To me there is a difference between open world and open map games.
The open map games is simply a map with tons of activities better or worse and frequently linear narrative structure.
The open world are games with many systems working with each other, giving player the tools, and not limiting the player, you had a annoying quest giver asking you to kill someone, kill the quest giver instead and see how it will impact the game world. They have higher degrees of freedom.
A sad example is SW outlaws. It gets all that is bad in UBI games and puts it into one game: during the mission you have an artificial mission area blocked by red circle, ai is dumb, limited intersection with the world itself, binary stealth if you are seen then fail state.
And the most sad part is UBI had previous games mixing stealth and action on a good level, so they for sure could do better.
I love open world especially the Oblivions/Skyrim type. The problem is the original devs of these good ones have left and the people they hire now aren't in it for the passion, they're in it for the DEI. Now they have procedural generation they've become lazy.
The shotcallers who are responsible for awful design decisions like procgen world design are people like Howard and Pagliarulo.
Truly dastardly DEI hires
I'm not sure about you but I never get tired of open worlds. I like to just explore and do whatever I want like fishing, gathering food and riding on horseback as long as the games allow those
What’s your favourite open world game? Based off of the things you like I’m thinking either Skyrim or rdr2?
@@AVVGaming1 Skyrim, RDR2 and Breath of the Wild/Tears of the Kingdom. Games like Watch_Dogs don't interest me very much, because there's not a whole lot to do outside of missions, activities and interacting the world with hacks. You can't really interact with the world in more relatable ways like eating at restaurants
You made a great point that I never thought of. Why replay the game when they've already shown you everything?
Yes it’s like there’s no reason to keep playing it again. And it means your second playthrough will be identical to your first. The best part of replaying an open world game is the hope of finding something different next time around!
I don't really understand this "don't have the time" argument. It's not like there's a time limit on the games. Ok, some have other things to do. I'm one such person, but on the other hand, I can play when I can and finish it when I can/want. This isn't a race. Instead of playing 10 games/year, I usually play something like 1-3 new games, but I play them for longer and that's it.
I actually think that’s probably the best way. If you get a 100 hour open world game and take a year to explore it, enjoy it, live in it,
You’ll love it! I think some people, myself included, just love games so much we get too many lol. October has been one of those months for sure! What, in your opinion, is the best open world game you’ve played?
@@AVVGaming1 Skyrim is the best for me, because it's the one that opened my appetite and really felt like a revelation in shaping my gaming tastes. Keep in mind that I've been playing video games since 1993, so for 31 years. I've played games from the 8-bit era (the first game I ever played was called Harrier Attack) so it's not like Skyrim was my first game ever, but it was definitely a turning point regarding my tastes. The perfect game for me would be an Elder Scrolls-style world and Elden Ring-style combat.
And yes, that is exactly what I'm looking for: a world to live in. Some of my favourite moments that brought me back to Skyrim again and again were things like listening to the music while on the road and that feeling of sitting by the fire in an inn and just reading an in game book.
For me, the main reason is i have a job so i don't have much time to explore. Being adult sucks but im still playing relaxing game like cities skylines or truck simulator
Gta5 has the best open world for me it’s so random and varied yet close to real life.
Hey I got a question on that actually! Have you ever played watch dogs 2? It’s based in California too open world lol GTA. I just tried it again and it’s actually very good for an Ubisoft game! What’s your take? If you’ve played it?
I think the biggest problem with open worlds is that they replaced innovation. Instead of coming up with new exciting mechanics, developers are just trying to make bigger and bigger maps. That's why a lot of people prefer indie games. Indie devs don't have the resources to make large maps so instead they have to make interesting gameplay.
You should try out Cyberpunk 2077. This game is similar to Witcher 3.
Thank you! I have played it many times already and done a few videos on it as well. I gave it “gamings greatest comeback “ title as well! Such a great game!
do you want the Boat or the Mysterious Box ?
Mysterious box! Every time!
I loved rebirth but the open world got exhausting real fast with doing all side missions and activities just over stayed its welcome and would have been better if they were open areas you could explore rather than the massive regions they were it dragged in bits and pieces for me
People love open worlds because it allows us to explore. People love to explore. If there is nothing to explore or find then whats the use.
I world rather have a smaller map with unique crafted content.
@@SourPatches2077 100% agree with you! It’s vital that the map be detailed and full of content. Those giant open worlds that are empty just are not enjoyable to me. What do you consider the game with the best open world map?
@ Skyrim was pretty, red dead redemption 2 is the most beautiful, but I think for “oh shit what the hell is this “ moments I will go with Fallout New Vegas. Spent hours combing every part of that map looking for interesting sites.
I agree with you 100% that a map shouldn’t have the stuff marked on it before you find it. I like opening up a map.
I am pretty sure that with AI's further development, the problem of "dull and empty big maps" will be resolved because AI will fill them with permanently generated interconnected/interchangeable activities. The open world doesn't cause fatigue; dullness and boringness do.
The overworlds of The Outer Worlds were, also, incredibly dull, and the distances seemed too far all the time. I spent dozens of minutes traversing boring landscapes full of nothing but enemy fights. And the enemies were all dull, too!
I liked the concept of outer worlds. I liked the way it was broken into smaller portions and like mini planets. The dialogue, role playing, companions, quests and cities I really thought were good, but I do Agree with you on the open world aspect. It was okay, but it didn’t excite me. It may have been the colours? That being said, I know they had limited time and resources for this game so maybe in TOW2 they will add to the open world parts? What would you say is a good space setting open world?
@AVVGaming1 They should've taken a single planet and fleshed it out more. I would've loved reasons to explore every nook and cranny. Instead, there were just empty expanses between locations with nothing to explore. Either there was nothing to see or everything was closed. Made the trek boring.
*its up to the double and single A developers to make the small games with big content because clearly AAA isn't gonna do it 👎 Forgotten City, Outer Wilds, RICO, Empire Of Sin, Cuphead are all fantastic small games made by small time developers.....and there's also the classics from back in the day, Bully, GTA Trilogy, Far Cry 2 and 3, Killer Is Dead, Saints Row 1 2 and 3, Forza Horizon, Splinter Cell Conviction, Blacklist and Double Agent 👌 older games are really where its at now.*
And yet a certain open world game is brave (or stupid) enough to give players 1000 procedural-generated planets to explore.
Even if you have no other responsibilities and game 8 hours per day, every day for 50 years, you'd still not have enough time to complete more than 10% of the current games on steam. Realistically, less than 1% once we add in the ones that will be released over the next 50 years. You have to be very choosy with how best to spend your gaming time. Life is simply to short to play ubisoft games
My biggest problem of open world game is absolutely the size. Oh look out game is 3 times the size of previous game. Ok but did you fill it with stuff to do? Of course not, you need to spend at least 20 just walking. No thanks.
Yeah I really hate those huge open spaces with nothing in them. Especially if it’s all on foot and there’s no unique details. It’s just fields. It’s frustrating for sure. I like open worlds like Skyrim, Yakuza, basically brimming with content every way I look. But that’s just a personal preference lol what’s your ideal example of a great open world game?
@@AVVGaming1 my favorite open world game has to be kingdom come deliverance. And even more so with the second game thats coming out. With little funding they had they did an amazing job with the map and how you play in it. You can run from one side to the next extremely fast with a good horse. Every quest lets you explore the entire map without showing you. You have have to listen to the quest giver to know where you need to go for most.
Wide as an ocean deep as a puddle.
Having a larger game just to do more exposition is poor choice.
On top of that such games often have tons of markers with repetitive content.
I would rather see smaller open world with systems interacting with each other and the player, branching narrative paths (including possibility to kill quest givers), more attention to detail (like in some older Bethesda games where showing in one faction armor at the others door step people were commenting on it).
@@mravg79 yeah i absolutely agree. Id rather have an ok map size that is interesting that pulls me in. I almost 100% assassin's creed odyssey and it was the worst time of my gaming life. Until i played Valhalla which i couldn't even get 15% through before uninstalling it.
4:00 noooooo, arkham city was open world before Skyrim. Don't u dare start a fight
lol not trying to start a fight. I just used it as an example of a series that switched from linear to open world later. Both were great games! Not saying anything negative about any of those two gamesn
Fallout 4 is a classic example of how bad modern open world games have got
Yes for me it didn’t hit the same as previous open world games like even fallout 3 and NV. What do you feel was the main reasons for that?
100's of unique Dungeons?
You talking about Skyrim?
I recall 15 unique and a bunch of repeated...
Skyrim is overrated mediocre game.
@@duhsasjekirom555 Yes until you have 400 mods
Honestly eldnen ring has many bad habits of bad open world design.
Elden ring for me was a good time. But not in my top 10 games for example. What would you say you would change? What could they have done better?
Morrowind
I cant believe you are praising Skyrim as a good game. 😄