The original non-shadow uses the tech from the 1960's suntour design. Only having changed to thinner pulley wheels for the 9/10/11sp narrow chains. Good video showing the differences.
I love the clutch system on my SLX. All my rear dérailleurs from the past used to bounce a lot when trail riding, but this one is staying firm and quiet.
For what it's worth a non-shadow 9 speed will work with a road 10-speed STI shifter. This allows for a much longer cage/bigger cassette. My wife is running a compact with an 11-36 10-speed on her gravel bike. Could easily go up to a 40. Has worked flawlessly. Thanks for the video.
I have a 10 speed Deore XT shadow derailleur. I find the Deore 9 speed non shadow derailleur on my hardtail to be much nicer on my thumbs when shifting. But the performance of shadow derailleurs outshines everything else.
Thanks for explaining the differences between the derailleur types! normally I like reading about stuff but the video made the mechanical properties very clear. Thanks man!
Hands down to Shimano Shadow. The Derailleur is so well hidden away from harms way. I dropped my bike a while back on concrete and walked away without RD damage but lots of dents in the chain stay. Sticking with Shimano
@@charliewhiskey8440 in this case, little something called derailleur hanger will propagate as point of least resistance to save both derailleur and frame.
@@ShinobiDiabolik the hanger is a very thick piece of aluminum compared to your derailleur cage. It'll probably save your frame but I doubt it'll save your derailleur.
The Deore along with older SRAM 9X can be tweaked so the wrapping spring tension is stiffer, reducing the chain flop greatly. One must disassemble the pivot of the idler arm, then move the internal spring to a second hole position that pre-wraps the spring tighter. Freeriders may prefer the clutch types but they almost certainly add drag to the drive chain unless one is scrupulous about keeping the idler pulleys well lubed. More complications to solve problems created by the last round of "improvements."
Regarding the possibility of increasing the tension as you mentioned, were you referring to shadow rd derailleurs? Do you think they can handle single chainring despite being clutch-less? Many thanks
thanks shaibike, great vids. I have the deore shadow plus on my 1x10 hard tail. i use it mostly on technical bumpy trails. it keeps the chain perfectly in place. no chain drops. the clutch mechanism broke sometime within the first year of use (2400 km). the derailleur kept doing its job just fine, just no clutch function, i didn't notice it was broken until the mechanic who did an inspection found it. it was within the warranty period and shimano fixed it free of charge, and out of warranty its not an expensive repair. but still it's something to consider when compairing shadow plus vs. shadow. search the web for "shimano shadow plus broken", it a pretty common problem.
The Deore rd-m591 sgs is a great derailleur for touring or any other riding that benefits from a wide range of gear ratios. With a wide range 9-speed cassette and a wide range triple crankset, one can have a crazy wide selection of ratios, a gear ratio for every situation. Plus, you can shift it with a wide variety of shifters: friction or index, down tube, bar end, thumb, trigger, brifter. The m591 is one of the most versatile rear derailleurs ever. Shadow and Shadow Plus are for screaming down boulder strewn mountainsides. If you don’t do that, choose the m591. It’s great. Note: the m591 has a capacity rating of 45 teeth. I’ve got it on a 47 tooth setup and it works fine, though I’m sure that is the limit.
Budget bikes often have a to long chain. Making the bike drop the chain way to easily. So just about every rider think he/she needs a better system. While the bike may just need to remove a couple of links from the chain, Or add a cheap chain guide.
Great explanation thanks. Just to add that if you have a 10 speed road bike, you can use some of these MTB rear ders as long as you buy the 9 speed version ( still gives 10 speeds). It's a simple way to increase the rear cassette up to 36t on a road bike for those 15% hills. I have used the non shadow deore and the shadow xt and both work fine on road bikes. The shadow is particularly good as it is less likely to be hit if using it on a cross bike off road. I read somewhere that the shadow plus does not work with a road bike, presumably because of the clutch or maybe it's not available as 9 speed.
Shadow plus only comes in 10 speed MTB drive trains and they've a different cable pull ratio to road bike shifters. That's why you always have to get 9 speed version for road bikes. It just happens shadow+ 9 speed RD doesn't exist. By the way the latest generation Shimano shifters (9XXX, 6800, 5800, 4700) have different pull ratio yet again. R3000 apparently is still using the old ratio.
I have the SLX shadow plus M-7000. Yes it works really well and yes the shifting is hard but ultimately responsive. I'm running an ordinary shimano crank and even then the chain has never come off. I ride my mtb 3-5 times a week sometimes doing downhills. No issue whatsoever with my fingers, plus you can turn off the clutch if you're riding in paved roads but I don't really do that.
I have a 7 speed bike (grip shift) with a TSDz2 electric motor and yesterday replaced its 20+ years old Alivio derraileur with a 9s Shadow. I like it a lot, more shifting feedback but not too hard, super precise and easy to adjust.
Hello from Albania! I started riding 1 month ago and didn't know anything about MTB. Thanks to your extremely informative videos I'm becoming an expert myself. Now I can tell which is a good bike and which is not and I can recognise quality components from other bikes. I watch your videos everyday and I'm learning a lot from them. Quick question: I have 3x8 shimano acera drivetrain with hyperdrive crank on my 26" MTB. If I want to upgrade to 3x9 or 3x10 do I have to change my rear derailleur too? What about the crank? Do I have to change that too? Thank you and keep up with the good job!
Mirland Cela Sorry but why do you want to upgrade from 3x8? You probably already have excellent range for MTB trails, and usually a precise cadence is not that important for mtb unless you are racing or have long constant runs. I would have to know your numbers of teeth on your chainrings and casette cogs, but I think the modern 1x11 likely has no more range than your 3x8.
Nice video but 2 things: 1. You said that the previous generation comes with no clutch, the 10 speed generation also has a clutch model. 2. The non shadow derailleur because of it's design when going off road hits the frame making an up and down movement and that can damage the derailleur in time and/or the sound can bother the rider, not just the chain slap because of the weaker spring.
I've been using the middle one for some time now and gear shifting is so precise and smooth , these are the doggys dangly bits of rear mech's :) , ( and they hardly stick out too )
i rode on shadow and non shadow derailleurs, and i felt that on shadow my chain is more stable, is shifts faster and more precise and more cleanly and crisp, than non shadow, on equal number of gears very old XT 9 speed non shadow, vs XT 9 speed shadow. i never rode shadow plus so i cannot say anything about shadow plus. If you are high performance cyclists, going from non shadow to shadow, rear derailleur is worthy upgrade. you will feel and notice the performance between both technologies if you are sunday afternoon ride in the park riders, only for recreational rides, do not even bother with upgrades. you will not feel anything above non shadow, non shadow derailleur performs higher than you do.
I had a shadow version of Alivio a while back. The worst derailleur I've ever used. The upshift spring was so weak the chain simply refused to drop to the two smallest sprockets and that was with limit screws adjusted correctly. Nasty, spongy feeling gear changes everywhere else. After switching to the non-shadow version everything started working smoothly and with no problems.
Wow. My bike was assembled at a shop and came to me without the clutch engaged. I left it as is because I didn't need the stability yet. Didn't know it disengages solely to remove the wheel with more ease.
non shadow rear der. today are mostly used for touring, hybrid and city bikes .. Also the non-shadow system it's like old campy rear mechs just slanted .. Like the new shadow(s) ders they also feel very stable trough bumps and rough roads..
Just "down graded" from my 10sp XTR Shadow to XT Shadow Plus and there is a noticable improvement in shift reliability at the cost of light action and perhaps some feel that the XTR had but to me the trade off is worth it. Of course there was a weight penalty but not significant in the big picture, 2 to 3 Oz? If I road no bumpy terrain then the XTR would be superior. I experianced less chainsuck and could switch gears, both front and rear simultaneously in bouncy conditions without issue. This was really an upgrade.
ofcource XTR is very delicate and gentle, it is only for racing. XT is the main tough workhorse, designed to take the main work load and abuse and stay tough while at it.
It seems quite clear that Deore is best suited for cyclo-touring bikes - upper-low to lower mid-end touring bikes. With progress in MB derailleurs, there is no reason to still use Deore on a MB (unless the target market is all those folks who buy mountinbikes to ride on the bike paths).
I have the SLX M670-GS Shadow and the tension is a bit too strong I think, upshifting requires a fair bit of effort. Haven't had any issues with the chain though on my 1x setup
I'm lead to believe that these are not actually compatible with each other. The non Shadow deore is compatible with old shifters. So if you have an old bike, that's the one to go for. The new Shadow mechs are compatible with newer shifters.
Very informative video. Thank you for taking time to explain. I have a question regarding direct mount vs B-Link hanger models. I have an aluminum frame with a replaceable derailleur hanger. Would I need a direct mount model or the B-Link model?
I would think if you were on mild trails you can run the shadow plus with the clutch disengaged and it make it like the other shadow model, then turn it on for rough trails...
Excellent video #1 Can the plus be used without the clutch enabled? Is the Non-Shadow version spring tension same as tension on the plus vesion if clutch is not enabled? #2 Correct me if I'm wrong but one of the differences is SLX cannot skip multiple gears in one step and XT version can. Using shifters can skip multiple gears... #3 I'm thinking of getting the plus and adding it to my road bike because of the large amount of chain... I'm hoping it won't be too stiff when changing gears. 52-39-24 Chain Ring 12-36 Cassette
Great video! Do you know if there will be a noticeable difference between M5120(Shadow+) and M6000(Shadow+, Hyperglide, Dynasis)? I am only looking for a Deore derrallieour with clutch system
like roadies do no crash? it is just mountain bikers crash more often, because we tackle tarrain that will scare the pants out of roadies, it does not mean that roadies do not crash. in roadie world, however, 105 is shadow, ultegra and duraace are shadow+
Shadow is slickest shifting and using a chain guide I havent dropped it on my 1x10 set-up. Shadow plus on another bike nice but shifts definitely take more effort.
I don’t know how people can ride with only ten gears. When I was racing MTB, I was using a 7 speed 12-28 rear with triple front, giving me 15 usable gears which were all needed. 10 gears just doesn’t provide enough; you lose out on either the high or low ends. If I were still racing, I would definitely be using a 9 or 10 gear rear with double ring up front.
Thx for this video it was very useful and contained a lot of informations that Shimano's (marketing) product descripton is missing. I was a little 'lost' with the stabilizer system - why should I adjust it, if it is really that good why can it be switched off, but not everything is clear. THANKS!
you forgot to mention the bigger ARM for the Shadow and shadow + STICKS out in the back so if you do not CUT and move shifter cable WILL hit the SPOKES !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Noob here. One question tho: Can i use rear derailleur deore m5120 11 and 10speed compatible, with 8 speed cassette with 8 speed shifter, and 8 speed chains? If it's not compatible, why?
I have the non shadow one. When im descending or going through rock gardens the chain just dance all over the place. To the point that i have to fit a neoprene chainstay protector.
So, the Shadow Plus is good fora Touring bike, but not needed, I guess? Bad roads, city streets with some light pot holes, etc., are not enough to need the + I guess? If I got the new Deore XT SGS with Shadow Plus for my 10 speed cassette on my drop bar "touring" road bike, should I return it and get an old "9 speed" Deore? Which one will help the chain fall of less? Because I really hate the chain coming off. I feel like on my old road bikes, the chain came off WAY too often, such a pain in the ass (black greasy hands!)
just ride it until it is worn out. then think of it. the video does not say if you buy your bike stock with shadow go to non shadow, the video say, if you have non shadow, but you do not hard on trails then it is not worth the upgrade.
Raising the comments from the dead... I just bought a Shimano XT M772-SGS Top normal Shadow Rear Derailleur advertised as a 9 speed. Contemplating running a Sunrace 10 speed freewheel on a hub motor and wondering about shifter compatibility. Any idea if Microshift 10 speed bar end shifters would be compatible? They are advertised as either road or mountain variants... I'm suspecting I should use the road version due to pull ratio? Thanks for the video.
Hi, I'm from Russia and understood all )), but don't understood for what is shadow + need locking, it's makes harder to moove the part of the derailleur.. is it need to lock when downhill and unlock for uphill, or lock during all the race??
On Shadow Rd Plus, if you aren't riding mountain (ex. City or plane surface) you might want to unlock the clutch otherwise it would feel very stiff to shift gears and pedalling. It's only for comfort, not strictly necessary to unlock
maybe because as time goes by, the technology and aesthetics start to reach the lower ends. I have a Shimano Alivo set and the rear derailleur has Shadow tech, which in the past was a Deore and more expensive models feature. It also has a 2x drivetrain system which once again in the past was targeted for Deore and more expensive models.
@@ShinobiDiabolik well, haven't heard of it, but makes sense because a lot of cheap bikes include Altus in their setup and man that is in no way a derailleur for mountain biking of any kind. Besides as my statement above, as time goes by the old versions of the tech goes through the lowest levels, maybe sometime soon it will happen considering how much time Shimano Shadow has been around :)
It's not as stiff as Shimano. Sram uses a roller-ball clutch system, same kind of thing though it adds more tension the further the cage moves along it's path. It is non adjustable unlike Shim but has much better lever feel due to the 1:1 ratio.
Do you think any particular model is more maintenance free? I'm thinking more for my commuting bike through wet winter conditions, the rear mech gets pretty wet and abused. Right now I ride a Deore.
For a commuter, ignore the Shadow line. You're going to pay for performance you don't need. With the Shadow Plus and Shadow, you're possibly even putting more strain on your driveline causing more frequent maintenance. With an external cassette, you're going to be looking at regular maintenance no matter what derailleur you chose. Cheaper derailleurs may need more frequent adjustments so a good derailleur like Shimano Deore would be a great choice. You're still going to need to frequently clean and lube your chain especially if the bike is exposed to the elements if you want your driveline to last at all. If you want to go with something that is going to be maintenance free, you need to consider internal hubs, but the whole chain maintenance thing is still going to need to be done if riding in dirty conditions. Not talking bad about the Shadows at all, but it's the opposite of what you're looking for. I actually would like the higher tension to keep my chain from flopping around, but I'm willing to spend the extra time to check my chain frequently and keep it lubed and clean to prevent excess wear that will be inevitably encountered with a high chain tension. ~ Opinion from an XC Mountain Biker
best performance and most consistent performance comes if all components are matched. dyna-sys is not feature of the derailleur, Dyna-sys is feature of the cassette, it means that the teeth of the cassette are shaped so that allows for the chain to release current sprocket and grab the new sprocket easier and faster during gear shift. XT cassette, with XT chain, with XT derailleur, with XT shifter, gives the best and most consistent result, simply because all parts are designed to fully match one another.
a non shadow derailleur is dieing concept. if you use proper shifter the generation and technology you will have everything as quiet and as smooth, simply because the derailleur and shifter will match each other
The original non-shadow uses the tech from the 1960's suntour design. Only having changed to thinner pulley wheels for the 9/10/11sp narrow chains. Good video showing the differences.
I discovered your youtube channel a few days ago.Since then I watched a lot of your videos and they are awesome.Great job!Keep doing what you do.
I love the clutch system on my SLX. All my rear dérailleurs from the past used to bounce a lot when trail riding, but this one is staying firm and quiet.
For what it's worth a non-shadow 9 speed will work with a road 10-speed STI shifter. This allows for a much longer cage/bigger cassette. My wife is running a compact with an 11-36 10-speed on her gravel bike. Could easily go up to a 40. Has worked flawlessly. Thanks for the video.
nice, good to know :) thanks for sharing that info!
I have a 10 speed Deore XT shadow derailleur. I find the Deore 9 speed non shadow derailleur on my hardtail to be much nicer on my thumbs when shifting. But the performance of shadow derailleurs outshines everything else.
Thanks for explaining the differences between the derailleur types! normally I like reading about stuff but the video made the mechanical properties very clear. Thanks man!
Thanks for the great explanation on these 3 types. Now I know why I need to use the `shadow+` type. :)
Hands down to Shimano Shadow. The Derailleur is so well hidden away from harms way. I dropped my bike a while back on concrete and walked away without RD damage but lots of dents in the chain stay. Sticking with Shimano
Wouldn't you rather having the RD take the blunt to save your frame? ;-)
@@charliewhiskey8440 in this case, little something called derailleur hanger will propagate as point of least resistance to save both derailleur and frame.
@@ShinobiDiabolik the hanger is a very thick piece of aluminum compared to your derailleur cage. It'll probably save your frame but I doubt it'll save your derailleur.
@@charliewhiskey8440 that would result to walking your bike home :(
The Deore along with older SRAM 9X can be tweaked so the wrapping spring tension is stiffer, reducing the chain flop greatly. One must disassemble the pivot of the idler arm, then move the internal spring to a second hole position that pre-wraps the spring tighter. Freeriders may prefer the clutch types but they almost certainly add drag to the drive chain unless one is scrupulous about keeping the idler pulleys well lubed. More complications to solve problems created by the last round of "improvements."
Regarding the possibility of increasing the tension as you mentioned, were you referring to shadow rd derailleurs? Do you think they can handle single chainring despite being clutch-less? Many thanks
thanks shaibike, great vids.
I have the deore shadow plus on my 1x10 hard tail. i use it mostly on technical bumpy trails. it keeps the chain perfectly in place. no chain drops.
the clutch mechanism broke sometime within the first year of use (2400 km). the derailleur kept doing its job just fine, just no clutch function, i didn't notice it was broken until the mechanic who did an inspection found it.
it was within the warranty period and shimano fixed it free of charge, and out of warranty its not an expensive repair.
but still it's something to consider when compairing shadow plus vs. shadow.
search the web for "shimano shadow plus broken", it a pretty common problem.
Excellent explanation. I always learn something from your videos.
The Deore rd-m591 sgs is a great derailleur for touring or any other riding that benefits from a wide range of gear ratios. With a wide range 9-speed cassette and a wide range triple crankset, one can have a crazy wide selection of ratios, a gear ratio for every situation. Plus, you can shift it with a wide variety of shifters: friction or index, down tube, bar end, thumb, trigger, brifter. The m591 is one of the most versatile rear derailleurs ever. Shadow and Shadow Plus are for screaming down boulder strewn mountainsides. If you don’t do that, choose the m591. It’s great. Note: the m591 has a capacity rating of 45 teeth. I’ve got it on a 47 tooth setup and it works fine, though I’m sure that is the limit.
Budget bikes often have a to long chain. Making the bike drop the chain way to easily. So just about every rider think he/she needs a better system. While the bike may just need to remove a couple of links from the chain, Or add a cheap chain guide.
Thanks - you make some of the best videos explaining techinical stuff !
More tension on the chain means also little more wear, i would say.
Great explanation thanks. Just to add that if you have a 10 speed road bike, you can use some of these MTB rear ders as long as you buy the 9 speed version ( still gives 10 speeds). It's a simple way to increase the rear cassette up to 36t on a road bike for those 15% hills. I have used the non shadow deore and the shadow xt and both work fine on road bikes. The shadow is particularly good as it is less likely to be hit if using it on a cross bike off road. I read somewhere that the shadow plus does not work with a road bike, presumably because of the clutch or maybe it's not available as 9 speed.
Shadow plus only comes in 10 speed MTB drive trains and they've a different cable pull ratio to road bike shifters. That's why you always have to get 9 speed version for road bikes. It just happens shadow+ 9 speed RD doesn't exist.
By the way the latest generation Shimano shifters (9XXX, 6800, 5800, 4700) have different pull ratio yet again. R3000 apparently is still using the old ratio.
I have the SLX shadow plus M-7000. Yes it works really well and yes the shifting is hard but ultimately responsive. I'm running an ordinary shimano crank and even then the chain has never come off. I ride my mtb 3-5 times a week sometimes doing downhills. No issue whatsoever with my fingers, plus you can turn off the clutch if you're riding in paved roads but I don't really do that.
I have a 7 speed bike (grip shift) with a TSDz2 electric motor and yesterday replaced its 20+ years old Alivio derraileur with a 9s Shadow. I like it a lot, more shifting feedback but not too hard, super precise and easy to adjust.
A really good explanation, thanks!
I have the deore Shadow+ with praxis cadet m24 30T 0mm offset on my 2022 full suspension trail bike and it works great ive never had an issue.
Hello from Albania! I started riding 1 month ago and didn't know anything about MTB. Thanks to your extremely informative videos I'm becoming an expert myself. Now I can tell which is a good bike and which is not and I can recognise quality components from other bikes. I watch your videos everyday and I'm learning a lot from them. Quick question: I have 3x8 shimano acera drivetrain with hyperdrive crank on my 26" MTB. If I want to upgrade to 3x9 or 3x10 do I have to change my rear derailleur too? What about the crank? Do I have to change that too? Thank you and keep up with the good job!
Mirland Cela Sorry but why do you want to upgrade from 3x8? You probably already have excellent range for MTB trails, and usually a precise cadence is not that important for mtb unless you are racing or have long constant runs. I would have to know your numbers of teeth on your chainrings and casette cogs, but I think the modern 1x11 likely has no more range than your 3x8.
Nice video but 2 things:
1. You said that the previous generation comes with no clutch, the 10 speed generation also has a clutch model.
2. The non shadow derailleur because of it's design when going off road hits the frame making an up and down movement and that can damage the derailleur in time and/or the sound can bother the rider, not just the chain slap because of the weaker spring.
I've been using the middle one for some time now and gear shifting is so precise and smooth , these are the doggys dangly bits of rear mech's :) , ( and they hardly stick out too )
The cable pinch doesn't move either, so no risk of the cable end clashing with spokes unless you bend it completely out of line.
i rode on shadow and non shadow derailleurs, and i felt that on shadow my chain is more stable, is shifts faster and more precise and more cleanly and crisp, than non shadow, on equal number of gears very old XT 9 speed non shadow, vs XT 9 speed shadow. i never rode shadow plus so i cannot say anything about shadow plus.
If you are high performance cyclists, going from non shadow to shadow, rear derailleur is worthy upgrade. you will feel and notice the performance between both technologies
if you are sunday afternoon ride in the park riders, only for recreational rides, do not even bother with upgrades. you will not feel anything above non shadow, non shadow derailleur performs higher than you do.
There is no cable adjustment screw with the two Shadow versions. Isn't that irritating and bothersome?
There is 1 mistake 9sp deore have soften spring because it use another cable pull/ derailleur ratio.
You forgot to mention that the torque of the spring is adjustable on the shadow systems.
How is it adjusted? Does this adjust gear lever effort?
I had a shadow version of Alivio a while back. The worst derailleur I've ever used. The upshift spring was so weak the chain simply refused to drop to the two smallest sprockets and that was with limit screws adjusted correctly. Nasty, spongy feeling gear changes everywhere else. After switching to the non-shadow version everything started working smoothly and with no problems.
Thanks for explanation, I got the shadow no plus and I did not understand, now yes
regards from Mexico ;)
Very informative. Thanks.
Since I ride it medium hard to extreme that's why I choose any from Shimano Shadow and Shimano Shadow+ mtb series.
thanks for helping me learn more about my bike! :)
Wow. My bike was assembled at a shop and came to me without the clutch engaged. I left it as is because I didn't need the stability yet. Didn't know it disengages solely to remove the wheel with more ease.
MAAAN...thi is absolutely awesome! This video saved me from buying a non shadow Alivio, thanks a lot! Great job!!
non shadow rear der. today are mostly used for touring, hybrid and city bikes .. Also the non-shadow system it's like old campy rear mechs just slanted .. Like the new shadow(s) ders they also feel very stable trough bumps and rough roads..
Bloody brilliance, thanks for the information
Just "down graded" from my 10sp XTR Shadow to XT Shadow Plus and there is a noticable improvement in shift reliability at the cost of light action and perhaps some feel that the XTR had but to me the trade off is worth it. Of course there was a weight penalty but not significant in the big picture, 2 to 3 Oz?
If I road no bumpy terrain then the XTR would be superior.
I experianced less chainsuck and could switch gears, both front and rear simultaneously in bouncy conditions without issue.
This was really an upgrade.
ofcource XTR is very delicate and gentle, it is only for racing. XT is the main tough workhorse, designed to take the main work load and abuse and stay tough while at it.
It seems quite clear that Deore is best suited for cyclo-touring bikes - upper-low to lower mid-end touring bikes.
With progress in MB derailleurs, there is no reason to still use Deore on a MB (unless the target market is all those folks who buy mountinbikes to ride on the bike paths).
Thank you, i finally get what that switch for.
hi. do you know if teh ALIVIO model SHADOW is SHORT CAGE? cant find this info!
I have the SLX M670-GS Shadow and the tension is a bit too strong I think, upshifting requires a fair bit of effort. Haven't had any issues with the chain though on my 1x setup
I'm lead to believe that these are not actually compatible with each other. The non Shadow deore is compatible with old shifters. So if you have an old bike, that's the one to go for. The new Shadow mechs are compatible with newer shifters.
Very informative video. Thank you for taking time to explain. I have a question regarding direct mount vs B-Link hanger models. I have an aluminum frame with a replaceable derailleur hanger. Would I need a direct mount model or the B-Link model?
GREAT DETAIL REVIEW .
VERY USEFULL .
👍 👍 👍
Thanks for the presentation. Easy to understand.
Finally figured out why my derailleur has weird shape to cable (SLX 11s)
I recon that if your going to buy a new derailleur and you ride mtb in the bush 1 or 2 days a week get the slx shadow + or deore with clutch
Is the non-shadow derailleur 1x12 compatible?
Thanks for the video :)
great video love the shimano videos you do keep up the good work
I would think if you were on mild trails you can run the shadow plus with the clutch disengaged and it make it like the other shadow model, then turn it on for rough trails...
Excellent video
#1
Can the plus be used without the clutch enabled? Is the Non-Shadow version spring tension same as tension on the plus vesion if clutch is not enabled?
#2
Correct me if I'm wrong but one of the differences is SLX cannot skip multiple gears in one step and XT version can. Using shifters can skip multiple gears...
#3
I'm thinking of getting the plus and adding it to my road bike because of the large amount of chain...
I'm hoping it won't be too stiff when changing gears.
52-39-24 Chain Ring
12-36 Cassette
bigtruck guy
Thanks for clarification...
Great video! Do you know if there will be a noticeable difference between M5120(Shadow+) and M6000(Shadow+, Hyperglide, Dynasis)? I am only looking for a Deore derrallieour with clutch system
"During the crash" There ya go. honesty in language. Cuz ya know if you don't crash in Mountain Biking, you need to step it up!
like roadies do no crash? it is just mountain bikers crash more often, because we tackle tarrain that will scare the pants out of roadies, it does not mean that roadies do not crash. in roadie world, however, 105 is shadow, ultegra and duraace are shadow+
@@ShinobiDiabolik 105, Ultegra and Dura-Ace are all standard shadow. There is the Ultegra RX which is Shadow+ but not Dura-Ace.
Shadow is slickest shifting and using a chain guide I havent dropped it on my 1x10 set-up. Shadow plus on another bike nice but shifts definitely take more effort.
I don’t know how people can ride with only ten gears. When I was racing MTB, I was using a 7 speed 12-28 rear with triple front, giving me 15 usable gears which were all needed. 10 gears just doesn’t provide enough; you lose out on either the high or low ends. If I were still racing, I would definitely be using a 9 or 10 gear rear with double ring up front.
Thx for this video it was very useful and contained a lot of informations that Shimano's (marketing) product descripton is missing. I was a little 'lost' with the stabilizer system - why should I adjust it, if it is really that good why can it be switched off, but not everything is clear. THANKS!
I like it when people believe in what they heard in commercials. SRAM figured those things out years before.
TheUrzur No not really do research, Srams back then were prone to snapping
Will that shimano deore m591 work with a 8 speed shifter and a cassette that has 11-42T?
No maximum I think is 3/34 tooth but might be able to goat link to make it work.or get shimano alivio 4000 9 speed
Thank you! Couldn't be any clearer than this.
Very good video. it answered all my questions.
Is the non-shadow on the right 12 speed compatible?
Thanx for the videos sir, I've learned so very much from them.
Keep'em coming.
Its for 8/9speed.
Thanks a lot, new tech new bike new day!
Please, make a version with the assembled derailleurs.
I'm so satisfied with the new SLX m7000, but sometime i fotget to switch my clutch on, wkwkwkwk
you forgot to mention the bigger ARM for the Shadow and shadow + STICKS out in the back so if you do not CUT and move shifter cable WILL hit the SPOKES !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
but of course, cable is mandatory to cut, leave an inch only for adjustment. just cut it to length, crimp it with end cap and get over it.
Noob here. One question tho:
Can i use rear derailleur deore m5120 11 and 10speed compatible, with 8 speed cassette with 8 speed shifter, and 8 speed chains? If it's not compatible, why?
I have the non shadow one. When im descending or going through rock gardens the chain just dance all over the place. To the point that i have to fit a neoprene chainstay protector.
this is where shadow plus is designed to be used
is it common for the cassette to make more noise when the clutch is on?
Do I have to adjust the derailleur with shadow plus engaged or without?
I wonder how you pronounce Shimano in Polish... Not English - Polish.
So, the Shadow Plus is good fora Touring bike, but not needed, I guess? Bad roads, city streets with some light pot holes, etc., are not enough to need the + I guess?
If I got the new Deore XT SGS with Shadow Plus for my 10 speed cassette on my drop bar "touring" road bike, should I return it and get an old "9 speed" Deore?
Which one will help the chain fall of less? Because I really hate the chain coming off. I feel like on my old road bikes, the chain came off WAY too often, such a pain in the ass (black greasy hands!)
just ride it until it is worn out. then think of it. the video does not say if you buy your bike stock with shadow go to non shadow, the video say, if you have non shadow, but you do not hard on trails then it is not worth the upgrade.
Nice Explanation....
Raising the comments from the dead... I just bought a Shimano XT M772-SGS Top normal Shadow Rear Derailleur advertised as a 9 speed. Contemplating running a Sunrace 10 speed freewheel on a hub motor and wondering about shifter compatibility. Any idea if Microshift 10 speed bar end shifters would be compatible? They are advertised as either road or mountain variants... I'm suspecting I should use the road version due to pull ratio?
Thanks for the video.
Hi, I'm from Russia and understood all )), but don't understood for what is shadow + need locking, it's makes harder to moove the part of the derailleur.. is it need to lock when downhill and unlock for uphill, or lock during all the race??
On Shadow Rd Plus, if you aren't riding mountain (ex. City or plane surface) you might want to unlock the clutch otherwise it would feel very stiff to shift gears and pedalling. It's only for comfort, not strictly necessary to unlock
Very, very, very good video! Thanks a lot!
Does the clutch have any effect on cross chaining? Is it possible that it can Cause more noise?
I wonder if the mtb shadow will wrk with ultegra 6800 rd group? I know dura ace 9100 has a new shadow derailleur but expensive
Thx bro
I now know why mine m610 shifting
more hard to push
and the m590 shifting is smooth
but it too soft for hard rider
I couldnt go with shimano cuz the shadow+ system wears out with a oval chainring (it gets creaky) so i went with sram.
Very helpful!
Is Altus M2000 better than Acera M390? Planning to upgrade my RD from Tourney.
My new bike have the shadow plus and it works great
Love your channel.
Thank you this is very useful.
that deore looks like the modern altus rd
maybe because as time goes by, the technology and aesthetics start to reach the lower ends. I have a Shimano Alivo set and the rear derailleur has Shadow tech, which in the past was a Deore and more expensive models feature. It also has a 2x drivetrain system which once again in the past was targeted for Deore and more expensive models.
@@Asthbendriel lowest end shadow i have ever seen was ACERA, yet i heard a rumor that also altus will become shadow. any true in this rumor?
@@ShinobiDiabolik well, haven't heard of it, but makes sense because a lot of cheap bikes include Altus in their setup and man that is in no way a derailleur for mountain biking of any kind. Besides as my statement above, as time goes by the old versions of the tech goes through the lowest levels, maybe sometime soon it will happen considering how much time Shimano Shadow has been around :)
Do you know about SRAM clutch derailleurs? I feel like the cage on my GX type 2 derailleur is nowhere near as stiff as that
It's not as stiff as Shimano. Sram uses a roller-ball clutch system, same kind of thing though it adds more tension the further the cage moves along it's path. It is non adjustable unlike Shim but has much better lever feel due to the 1:1 ratio.
TheMrDavidCurran Ahright, I see. Thanks
Do you think any particular model is more maintenance free? I'm thinking more for my commuting bike through wet winter conditions, the rear mech gets pretty wet and abused. Right now I ride a Deore.
Wet conditions, snow, mud...... maybe for you best option will be rear mech in rear hub like Nexus ??
Everything sealed-up nice and tidy
Przemek Such I prefer an external mech. Don't want to get a whole new wheel. Much more expensive
In that case.... the simplest the better... go for 9 speed Deore..
get a fixed wheel or a single-speed.
For a commuter, ignore the Shadow line. You're going to pay for performance you don't need. With the Shadow Plus and Shadow, you're possibly even putting more strain on your driveline causing more frequent maintenance. With an external cassette, you're going to be looking at regular maintenance no matter what derailleur you chose. Cheaper derailleurs may need more frequent adjustments so a good derailleur like Shimano Deore would be a great choice. You're still going to need to frequently clean and lube your chain especially if the bike is exposed to the elements if you want your driveline to last at all. If you want to go with something that is going to be maintenance free, you need to consider internal hubs, but the whole chain maintenance thing is still going to need to be done if riding in dirty conditions. Not talking bad about the Shadows at all, but it's the opposite of what you're looking for. I actually would like the higher tension to keep my chain from flopping around, but I'm willing to spend the extra time to check my chain frequently and keep it lubed and clean to prevent excess wear that will be inevitably encountered with a high chain tension. ~ Opinion from an XC Mountain Biker
Was on a 8h MTB ride, my thumb hurt for 2 weeks from all the shifting on my shadow plus
Springs on Shimano Alivio Shadow are weak compared to Deore ones. (impressive ! )
of course, they are. Alivio is lower class equipment than deore
Get a rapid rise derailleur then chuck your bike in the river.
question ? these 3 are all top Normal ?
can i change RD-M591 SGS cage to SS Cage?
works single chainring without shimano Shadow plus ????
hi brother you need to get devinchi 14 its free so you can have better sound. thank you for videos and all your work :)
If I buy a Deore XT cassette with Dyna-sys technology, do I have to also buy a Dyna-sys derailleur?
best performance and most consistent performance comes if all components are matched. dyna-sys is not feature of the derailleur, Dyna-sys is feature of the cassette, it means that the teeth of the cassette are shaped so that allows for the chain to release current sprocket and grab the new sprocket easier and faster during gear shift. XT cassette, with XT chain, with XT derailleur, with XT shifter, gives the best and most consistent result, simply because all parts are designed to fully match one another.
So the "GS" is non plus (no clutch). And the "SGS" is with the plus (with clutch)?
No. SS means short length cage. GS means medium length cage. SGS means long length cage. Cage length depends on hearing setup.
@@409nh8 thanks so much mate... 👍c^^,)
in india most of the Entry lvl Hybrid comes with Shimano Tourney set.. what do u think of them.. how they r..?
Abhishek Biswas mass manufactured crap... they will work, but not really. Mishifts are really common. Adjustments are difficult.
Can rd acera m3000 handle cs 50 t ? Thanks
Compare merida matts 6.15 vs totem supersonic
Good Info.....Thanks!!
I find the Non Shadow shifts better , looks better , and is Quieter !!!!!!!!!!!!
Pity Shimano does not make a 10 speed NON Shadow .
a non shadow derailleur is dieing concept. if you use proper shifter the generation and technology you will have everything as quiet and as smooth, simply because the derailleur and shifter will match each other