I think people often forget why Forberance is so good, not only it's an ad clear monster, but the fact you get huge chunks of life back due to the origin trait is what makes this gun so good for me.
True, but with the , the original trait, you can get small health back as well on kills, but not as potent, still good as we really do not need that much healing.
tbf, undercurrent is probably the only weapon capable of procing stunning recovery reliably an safely without the help of seasonal mods and it's really strong, insta refill the mag, a good chunk of health and a ton of recovery is quite good. Obviously getting health just by hitting stuff is better than actually getting kills, but is not like we expected something better of a discount forbearance, plus sometimes you don't have time to get your health by reloading, so vindication might save you since it procs on kill.
It's even funnier since both have a healing origin trait, although vanguards vindication is kinda just like a burst from unrelenting while souldrinker is devour levels of health on forbearance
i mean voltshot waveframe can somewhat be a forbearance sidegrade for me cus it does cover a larger radius than CR, i feel like it’s just a preference thing if you have both
I'll probably end up using both depending on the modifiers for what im running. Demo voltshot is nice for grenade regen, and it can also stun overloads. Plus jolt chains farther than chain reaction. It's more of a side grade to forbearance
@@Lakrushmai think modifiers would be more accurately said as “build” grenades tend to have immense utility and depending on your build may even be vital. However, if they arent or you need to save them (Ie, if you have a damage rotation that relies on a grenade like strand warlock, but doesn’t feel quite as peeved about a few missing special ammo missing) then forbearance will slot in nicer with maybe a bit less thought. Undercurrent primarily brings utility where forbearance brings raw power in a single field.
Yeah, I think Demo / Voltshot is the reason to run this. You can get a lot of energy for your grenade builds and there’s also general Arc synergy / anti-Overload tech from Voltshot. In terms of raw add clear effectiveness, though, there’s no beating Forbearance. This is still a really good weapon. I think it would have been more interesting as a Solar weapon with Incandescent, but that’s just me.
I remember when I first got forbearance and I really quickly wished I could get it with demo. And the demo void one feels OK . But now I can have my demo forbearance and I'm happy
The roll I want is not ambitious voltshot, it’s demo voltshot, this roll is heavily leaning into arc subclass synergy and is my go to now, if I’m on arc or my subclass can use the help of demo. Demo is the main selling point for me here, since it’s the first energy wave frame since matyrs retribution to roll demo. Forbearance is still great and I will keep it using for anything else (i got 30k kills on mine)
Tip to get forbearance without running the raid multiple times. If you get forbearance to drop once in your collection, you can solo the first secret chest in vow raid 3 times a week for red borders and get a good roll that way.
thats exactly what i did. i got cataclysmic and forbearance to drop from caretaker and then i just did the secret chest method until i got 5 of each. I used my harmonizers on both of them and was able to craft them! i also got s ton of spoils from that method
It's a really good origin trait, but in the spirit of "well ackshually," it caps out at 80 health per reload. Enhanced Souldrinker back in the day was double that, but we'll likely never see that in the artifact again.
Souldrinker is the actual reason Forbearance is as good as it not Chain Reaction. Honestly Chain reaction on forb is the most overrated thing in the game.
the vangaurd origin trait heals as well. Unfortunately it is less healing than souldrinker BUT it procs on kill instead of on reload which can be a life saver in some situations
@@Aj-py8enThat's not even remotely true. People use Forbearance BECAUSE of chain reaction, not Souldrinker... if what you were saying is true, every waveframe is the same because you can just slap on Devour and get your health back after every kill.
@@jonahbrown5669 chain reaction does almost nothing for a wave frame that it doesn't already do by just being a wave frame. It's 80 damage over a 3 meter radius, compared to a wave frames 600 damage. Anything that would be hurt by the explosion is already dead from the wave. It's not like salvagers salvo where it throws corpses for more AoE or even needs more AoE. Volatile, a hilariously weak explosion, deals DOUBLE the damage in a 7 meter radius compared to chain reaction, and it doesn't need a kill. Any void wave frame with volatile rounds active blows forbearance out of the water when it comes to add clear. People got and used forbearance because of chain reaction sure. After all it is super flashy and something unique to the weapon. But that's not the reason it's good. It's good because every reload heals you for 80 health and you only need to hit things for that to happen. Also yes, every wave frame is basically the same when you use devour. Souldrinker heals you on hit, while devour needs a kill. And they do stack on hunter and titan after the changes this season. But yes. There's no real practical difference between wave frames when you have devour up. Wave frames are just really good on their own. You only need a utility or ammo perk to make them broken.
one imortant note about ambitious/voltshot is that the two perks do not synergize as well as demo/voltshot. Because only the first shot from your weapon applies jolt then only half of your shots from undercurrent will be applying jolt with ambitious assassin. With demo on the other hand you will be able to apply jolt to enemies more often than if you ran ambitious
Voltshot has more utility against beefier targets and in GM-level content, whereas Forbearance is much less potent in those scenarios. You can stun Overloads, apply jolt to a major or boss that will pulse lightning as more damage is done. I feel like that's the difference in the rolls here, plus having Demo as an option to keep your grenade uptime high.
@@rithvikmuthyalapati9754 Exactly, you're sacrificing a special slot to solve a problem that is dealt with by multiple, more effective alternatives anyway. Hell, I see and also ad clear with heavy weapons since heavy bricks are pretty abundant in GMs anyway.
@@rithvikmuthyalapati9754 Wish ender and forbearance is my go to loadout and then whatever surges decide the heavy. I’ve seen people use harsh language to spread destabilising rounds to a large group of enemies too. Wave frames are good
I feel the origin trait difference is also very worth bringing up. The vow origin trait is incredible even more so with Ambitious and Chain reaction (more hits, more heals) Undercurrent does give 7 health per kill, which isn't too bad with how it'll slay, but forbearance still takes the cake.
the correct answer is explosive personality, because while being a worse wave frame it is solar which means I get resto/ radiant extension on it while normally benefiting from my surges.
@@SavvyMon4because wave frames are better than primaries. That said, it lacks in raw clear potential. If we ever get an incan wave frame though, you best hold on to your shorts because we may not ever take it off.
@4EverSavvy Variety of situations. Often, I do use drang, mida, bxr, Zaolis, etc. But wave frames are really efficient clear compared to non-exotic primaries while also 1 shotting most mid-tier combatants. Also their ammo economy makes double special viable if needed. If I wanted to use both a wave frame and extend solar buffs with primary I'd have to clear with a solar primary and then run the stasis wave frame, at which point why am I running a wave frame if I'm clearing with my primary anyway? Essentially, it is the same reasons you'd use a wave frame like forbearance in the first place, but with the added benefit of buff extensions.
@@atsukana1704 I do enjoy explosive personality quite a bit in pvp. Especially with a weapon like huckleberry. I have used it in pve to level it up and it’s def missing that one room clearing type of perk for sure
Just out of curiosity, what roll do you run? I originally crafted it with Auto-Loading/Disruption Break but realized I wasn't reaping the benefit of DB as often I had hoped so swapped it out for Frenzy and honestly, that damage and handling boost actually feels really crispy to me.
I got a 5/5 god roll adept on my first GM clear today. But it's probably going to sit in my vault and collect dust, because I still feel like crafted forbearance is better. Like you said, people who have access to forbearance are most likely to just keep using it, while non-raiders now have access to a waveframe that's almost just as good as forbearance.
@@vegancardigan non-adept nightfall weapons drop from non-GM nightfalls. Having an adept weapon isn't necessary imo. Someone who just wants the weapon can simply farm legend/master instead.
i have forbearance and will use this because i don't feel obligated to play the game with the same 3 weapons for 12 hours a day like most destiny addicted meta slaves.
@@palehorseriderxyeah adepts aren’t a big deal on non-heavy weapons (at least not for pve content). Especially with undercurrent specifically being a gl there’s really nothing extra it could do for you aside from maybe a reload speed or handling buff which is far from necessary
The voltshot demo could be really good for arc builds cause it's constant grenade regen plus jolt which gives ionic traces which is even more regen. On anything else, I'd say forbearance but imma be farming this GL for my arc boys.
I think both have their uses. I’ll personally use an unrelenting/chain reaction Forbearance for most higher level content and a Demo/Voltshot Undercurrent for stomping things like lost sectors, vanguard ops, low level trash clear, and soft speed running with strand grapple. These are the kind of decisions that weapon crafting SHOULD be making you think about. I don’t think any other archetype with a similar crafted counterpart has been this close as far as which is “better”, and that is a good thing. I hope closer “crafted vs farmed” archetype options like these come out in the future.
Heads up tho the shock from Voltshot doesnt proc things like stats for all. But wave frames do make proccing that in a single shot easy so def a nice perk to either way.
I'd recommend you going something else, you can max out reload speed with mw and adept mods and handling can go up to 90 by its self, you can go lead from gold for ammo or field prep for more reserves, or the roll everyone wants which is demo voltshot, because it gives you grenade back almost instantly
5:48 you can cheese the boss and run to the boss with strand/ heat rises for getting to boss faster you can grapple up to the opening and the cheese is go even higher up and be mostly safe
The biggest barrier to most people raiding isn't lfg - it's time and the ability to use a mic. I raided at least three times a week in D1, exclusively using LFG sites in the early days, and I had really great experiences for the most part. But now I largely play late at night when the family are in bed, so hopping on a mic just isn't an option. However, I can easily quickly find a couple of people to silently run GMs with for a couple of hours and not wake up the kids. I'm really glad Bungie has implemented things to make it easier for people to find raid teams, and if you're nervous about playing with randoms online I honestly encourage you to give it a try. Despite the raging arguments you see on social media, most people are decent and supportive and arent going to rip you to shreds for missing a call out or having a trash build. But for those of us for whom real life gets in the way, I'm glad we can farm GMs instead.
Thankfully got Undercurrent on my first LOS run so I can just build engrams for focusing. Since I don't raid and can't get Forbearance (hopefully I'll find time this season since it's so long), then I'll be using a Demo/Voltshot Undercurrent as a good substitute.
I feel like Undercurrent’s nice to get if you don’t feel like or don’t have access to grinding Vow of the Disciple. And if not doing Grandmaster grinds isn’t your thing, you can at least obtain the normal one and spend your Vanguard Engrams whenever you want from your regular Vanguard Ops play. I have yet to try my Voltshot roll, but we’ll see whenever I get around to playing with that.
5:00 you the hit the nail right there. I have plenty of friends who play D2 but because of this holiday season (RiP retail), overall time AND a few people whos apathy towards the whole game at this moment is at an all time high, i cant raid with those folks. Luckily i had it drop for me so i can do the hidden chest thing But its easier for me to load up nightfall and just do that.
Undercurrent Vs. Forbearance kinda reminds me of the blinding GL debate between Pardon our Dust and Ignition Code. Both are good, one is better. But one is much easier to get than the other. Whichever you have/want to get is fine, it only really matters how much time you want to put into it.
IF you know how to get to the first secret chest in Vow, you don't actually have to raid since that's just a weekly chest you can easily get every week per character that does drop it. It's not a big deal. I only did Vow maybe a handful of times but never got a forbearance until I started farming the first secret chest for weeks.
I didn't get a single good undercurrent but I did get an ambitious assassin / chain reaction forbearance almost immediately after doing the nightfalls so I guess everything worked out in the end
Personally, when I saw it could get Voltshot, I figured it may not technically be better then forbearance, but at least on Arc subclasses it would really shine. Having it lean into the subclass verbs is a nice addition to have
Another thing to note is that if you play vow enough to get ONE forbearance you can slam your head against the hidden chest at the start of the raid on each character every week for 3 chances at the drop. (and fill in any non-red border drops with harmonizers but that takes a good few spoils) if you only play the raid on one character you can also ignore the potential for armor drops polluting the pool on your subsequent other-character hidden chest rolls for a better chance of getting the gun.
0:48 The mag refill from demo is not more important than the grenade energy since it counteracts voltshot 2:47 Don’t use voltshot with ambitious assasin
@@Black2overlord Nah you can get 89 reload without a reload mod so stats for all isn’t really necessary. I think lead from gold for double special or demolitionist for grenade energy are the third column perks I would want.
Got the stats for all voltshot roll. That quick reload after stats for all proc really help the gun! Wasting a ambitious assassin shot without voltshot seems like missing the point with this gun. Never got a forbearance to drop in the raid😭 so this will do in the meantime
I like both BUT I will give Undercurrent a bit more love for one reason (maybe 2 depending if you run Demo), volt shot not only stuns champions but it also has a wider add clear radius than chain reaction even if you're not on arc sublass. Add that too demo and you have an add clearing, nade regen, monster. Again, but are top tier but I think Undercurrent just squeaks past Forbearance.
the issue is both weapons are arc wave frames, but i comes down to what you like more do you want to have 3.0 verbs like jolt and having free nades then undercurrent is it. but if you want to just blow stuff up then forbearance for obvious reasons, but each gun has pros and cons, one is better for arc 3.0's and one is just unquestionably fun and insane ad clear. so the real question is, what one you want to use and build around.
Pro tip for those who are able to get a raid group but can't literally always get one set up: After getting your first Forbearance drop, you can actually get it from the secret chests in the raid, and the very first chest is easy to grab weekly solo. It's how I've gotten my Forbearances for the last few weeks that I'll use Deepsight Harmonizers on to eventually get my crafted one as I cannot raid weekly or even monthly, and sometimes the raid I am able to do isn't VOW. You still have to get that initial drop, but once you do, save the ones you get to harmonize. It'll be worth it.
I feel like it needs mentioning that Undercurrent has some questionable perk synergy, in regards to the combo of demo plus voltshot; where the reload granted by demo will not trigger voltshot. Still decent for the grenade energy regen but even then GL's refund less energy with demo than other special weapons which is unfortunate. It's also worth pointing out that Forbearance has an S tier origin trait with souldrinker which is basically a built in unrelenting on top of whatever other perks you choose. For anyone that is reluctant to raid it's also worth pointing out that you CAN get a forbearance with minimal raiding required if you simply do the boss checkpoint until you get a single weapon drop, at which point you can then farm the 1st free bonus chest on all 3 characters every week until you get all of the red borders for the weapon, either through actual red border drops or with harmonizers. The smaller your loot pool the better in this instance and in particular it's good to have not done the raid at all on 2 of your characters as this will ensure you have no armor drops in the loot pool to potentially get from the chest. If you somehow get forbearance to drop from a single boss CP such that it's the only weapon in your loot pool you'll guaranteed get 5 copies (4 extra after the 1st) in just 2 weeks from 2 chests on each of your other characters, assuming the character who did the boss CP only has a 50% chance due to likely getting an armor piece as well from the boss CP.
For anyone interested, any roll with attrition orbs is garbage so it's safe to dismantle (yes, even ones with demo), I ran some test, it seems too inconsistent to test as there's no boss that isn't filled with adds at some point, doesn't teleport or is sitting on a heavily uneven floor, but my rough estimate is that 9 hits are required to proc (no, multi-kills only counts as one per shot) so at best, you get two small orbs (1.6% super energy) and 2 amor charges per total reserves.
I would probably not recommend getting the Ambitious Assassin roll with Voltshot as you're making half of your reserves not have Voltshot. You're probably better off with Demo for the means to get grenade energy back.
The NF GL with Demo/Voltshot pairs heavenly with Lucky Raspberry. Demo obviously gives grenade energy as well as Voltshot procs. That being said it still plays into the almost mandetory arc build he mentioned.
I don’t why the word douchy always makes me laugh, but it does. Thanks for the video. Figured I’d never be able to put in the time commitment to get Forbearance, but even I can handle a Nightfall.
I have a forebearance from doing three or four Rhulk kills (which were done just before my first RoN where i got the Conditional Finality) i think i got two red borders there and then it took me one season to run the VoW chest and get it plus the pulse which were my only two weapons i had drop
I have both of these weapons now. And I also got my ideal undercurrent roll of demo/lead from gold+voltshot on my first GM clear. I will say though, using undercurrent outside of an arc subclass feels a tad bit off but I can see it's pontential. It is almost on par as forbearance, which is a rather high bar.
Why didn’t you mention the verb synergy difference between voltshot and chain reaction specifically. For you ocd guardians out there like me, this here makes undercurrent above its old and tired competitor.
You hit the nail in the head with the voltshot synergy. Basically, on arc, if you want to run a kinetic primary, undercurrent is the best pick. On every other class, forbearance is more consistent.
tip for those doing the GMNF, run GLs instead of Rockets, lets you still cook the boss before he even starts wandering around the room, and far less danger to the players unaliving themselves. My friends and I use either Cataphract with bait and switch, or Koraxis's with surrounded.
I think voltshot stunning overload champs isnt stated enough here. Also, does undercurrent get bonus perks with vanguard reputation resets? I forget how it works for nightfall weapons
I say Undercurrent because '"'Ive already had Forbearance and i want to know what someone-- I mean, something else feels like " Also for those who dont have Forbearance craftable yet, just pointing out that the first Secret Chest in Vow can be acquired solo pretty easily. (You do have to kill the first Savathun to open the door, but you can ''avoid' the Payload part starting by hugging the wall so you wont get Pervading Darkness and you can continue on to open the chest with no adds. Though your chances to get just that one gun may be lower. You can also do it x3 characters per week to slowly chip away at progress if you really dont want to raid. Thanks fallout , I love your accurate imitation of our "but Fallout" voice. Well done
i got an adept undercurrent (ambitious/voltshot) and tried it out. it performs fine, but the feeling of it will never match forbearance. ALSO, forbearance’s origin trait is AMAZING. like, possibly top 5 origin traits in the game. it is so good, it feels so nice to gain back a chunk of health on a whim while using it
I like undercurrent, it’s really good! But Forbearance (especially with enchanted perks, though I guess undercurrent can also be adept). The life regain that Forbearance gives from its origin trait but just puts it over the edge. That’s the cherry on top of the already god roll.
Demo Voltshot is such a nice roll. Especially for Lucky Raspberry with its recent buff. I throw my grenade, use Undercurrent, and I immediately get it back.
Those comments at the beginning are MY people. I solo/duo dungeons and nightfalls at best. I don't like that I feel I don't have access to raids I paid for either, but here we are!
I do got both, but I have'nt had time to test the head to head. I don't like using forbearence as much as I thought when I got it crafted. You run out off ammo so quick and it is in the energy slott where all the build weapons are as sunshot, trinety ghoul etc
Somehow stumbled into a Vow pug. Honestly don't know how i got there, was drinking and i never drink or raid even. But got down a couple bosses and got armor and a forbearance. Like 2 months later my brain made the connection that I can focus farm forbearance on all my characters for a godroll/reds through chest. As a non raid solo it felt like the lottery for a minute.
I think people are forgetting that voltshot can linger in larger targets (aka mini bosses, majors, bosses) and helps with dps just a little since it’s a debuff. Also, this can have adept big ones spec, boosting that damage even more. Yes I’m not doing damage to a boss with this thing alone, but the thought of killing some adds and then debuffing them with voltshot cause if a little bit more damage then switching to a rocket thats buffed up by BAS is more appealing then just solely killing adds with no way to really help damage a boss, mini boss, or major. In my books, my crafted forbearance just got replaced.
Once you get a copy of Forebearance getting it craftable is pretty easy, you could just find a Rhulk checkpoint and run it how many more times you need to and buy it with the one redboarder you can buy per reset.
If you don't need arc or want one to go with a void build, I've got a Harsh Language with Envious Assasin and Destabilizing Rounds that goes pretty hard on trash mobs and pretty well reloads itself.
My first GM clear I got 2 attrition orb/lead from gold rolls. I very quickly learned that attrition orbs is either bugged or doesn't work with wave frames.
It works but takes waaaaay to many hits. You have to hit - ton kf enemies to proc with a single shot. I thought I generated one in 3 hits but that might have been Reaper. On bosses dont even bother. It takes like 5 shots on a boss to get it to proc.
@ROFLWAFFLELAWL4 it was probably the reaper perk as i had hit 3+ enemies on multiple occasions and didn't spawn any. Then I figured that it probably followed rocket launcher rules and you had to hit an enemy with 2 rockets before 1 orb spawned. Luckily one of my rolls had envious assassin as an alternate perk, but even hitting enemies with 2 grenades in a row it wouldn't spawn an orb. So then I tried shooting 3 times in a row and still didn't spawn an orb. So I reported it to bungie help as being bugged.
Might be just me but ammo economy seems strange on the undercurrent. Starting numbers, special ammo drops seem way throttled when I use it. Demolitionist/jolt on it is very nice if youre running arc titan or grenade centrist builds.
I feel like there's two launchers that have been left out of this discussion (particularly when discussing Forbearance alternatives): Prodigal Return and more notably Salvager's Salvo. Prodigal is obtainable from Season of Defiance activities and has some good rolls which includes voltshot. Salvo can be obtained from the Monument to Lost Lights for 75k glimmer, 2 enhancement prisms, and 1 ascendant shard. Salvo was the Forbearance before we had Forbearence and I sometimes switch to it if the terrain is particularly hostile to wave frames (like in Ghosts of the Deep or any arena with weird terrain).
A lot of people always forget that salvagers salvo also has demo/vorpal on it as well, making it useful for some some boss fights. Have 40k plus kills on both salvagers and a crafted forbearance. They both have their place in the game. And both are better than undercurrent in my opinion. Wave frames can be just as finicky as regular GLs as well. Hit map geometry the wrong way and your waveframe goes behind you, or under the map, or into space. And, in a pinch, there's not really any direct impact damage from them either.
Volt shot is really good for the fragment that allows traces to form after a jolt kill but that is only arc classes, but also the volt shot helps with targeted kills since the arc does chain rather just damage around like CR and is easier to obtain in NFs than a 6 man raid but forbearance is just really good for the origin perk that gives health after reloads, being better with AA
The problem with Undercurrent is that voltshot has a timer. It makes me feel like I'm missing out if I'm not actively using it compared to Forbearence and chain reaction which I can just pull out whenever I want
i got my godroll, with stats for all and voltshot first run, then I use the thingy on the subclass that says arc special kills have a blinding explosion, that combo with stats for all for loads of reload speed, i really enjoy it, I get that not a lot might agree but thats fine :) Edit: forgot to say why, I prefer it because as someone with social anxiety the idea of a raid is terrifying so unless i can do it no comms I just don't and vow is one I can't do no comms so I just decided not to get forbearance
If you get a single forbearance, you can start running the intro 3x a week for the secret chest and use deep site harmonizers if you really don't want to raid again. This also works for any DSC weapons, and technically last wish weapons through the wish wall as well though that's way too much time commitment imo. (But also just keep raiding and make 'friends' with the nicer randoms until you have a squad, its hard but worth it.)
@TitanFaIIen One per drop of a weapon. So you would need 5 seperate foreberences, but you could use a deepsight on each. It might take quite a while to get lucky enough for that if you're just doing the secret chests, but you'll also be getting random rolls of any weapons in your loot pool so it won't be wasted time. Plus it takes ~3 minutes to do or about 5-6 for DSC so pretty easy.
I remember running a bleak watcher spam build a while back and wanting to run a gl with demo but my only good option was salvager's salvo since there weren't any wave frames with demo at the time (rip martyr's retribution). I'd say the only real use cases for undercurrent are with specific arc stuff or just having demo on a wave frame that's better than new pacific epitaph. In a 1-1 comparison with forbearence, undercurrent doesn't really stand a chance, but it can at least do something forbearence can't.
I've got a AMBITIOUS ASSASSIN/ATTRITION ORBS build and it's really interesting. Getting guaranteed orbs every shot feels like something I could build around and makes it more flexible using it outside of Arc builds. I haven't messed too much with building around it but I feel that there is something there. Also, someone in another TH-cam review of the gun mentioned that VOLTSHOT only work on the first shot and not the second, can anyone confirm that? I feel that would really undermine the perk and I haven't gotten one with AMBITIOUS ASSASSIN/VOLTSHOT to test myself.
IMO there’s really only two rolls to go for on this weapon that I do want. Unfortunately they require 3 perks being demo, ambitious and bait n switch. For damage setups with other bait and switch options. the other is lead demo, lead and volt for the overload capability that forbearance doesn’t have in GM’s n things. Great vid fallout!!
Never attempted Vow raid and it looks like a royal piita to communicate all those symbols, etc... Just got an undercurrent with lead from gold/voltshot and realizing I've rarely used wave frames and getting used to shooting the ground lol
I could very well be wrong, but I feel like voltshot would perform better in something related to end-game content. Chances of getting that first kill are lower to get chain reaction going consistently, but if you manage to get that kill, the jolt impact would be better at spreading and chaining the damage. Then again, I don't really know, just thinking of possibilities.
Thats my thought process. Chain reaction will be king for overall pure add clearing but for anything else Id pick Undercurrent. Jolt has way better utility with anti champ, aoe damage, and boss damage. Plus being able to also roll Demo and/or Lead From Gold, something Forbearance cant roll IIRC, I find it way more appealing.
another underrated aspect of Forbearance is the origin trait Soul Drinker is kind of like unrelenting considering that you smash 5-6 ads and get your health back. I understand that for some people raiding isn't an option and for that Undercurrent is a viable alternative.
Forbearance - King of ad clear Undercurrent - Forbearance, but with less ad clear power, but way more utility (demo, lead from gold, voltshot vs overload)
I don't really get why forbarance is "clearly" the better option when looking at preformance. Does it have that much better stats, or better colomn 1 and 2 perks, or is chain reaktion just better than voltshot?
I've got adept version after 2 gm runs. Masterwork: velocity . Left column : ambisius or demo to choose , right column : voltshot . Looks like a supergodroll to me
Demo + Volshot and Ambitious Assassin + Voltshot are two rolls I don't really recommend, I mean, they sound good on paper but... * Demo + Volshot = Demo is very inconsistent with voltshot kills, also, Demo doesn't proc Voltshot. * AA + Voltshot = I mean, the loop of Voltshot is to kill + reload+ kill with voltshot + reload + kill with voltshot + reload + kill with voltshot + etc. AA brake that loop, but can work if you want to swap weapons. Demo + One for All/Adrenaline are better option for grenade energy. Stats for All + Voltshot/One for All/Adrenaline or AA + One for All/Adrenaline are optimal for add clear.
One of my favorite grenade launchers will always be salvagers salvo. It holds a special place in my heart even though i know full and well that forbearance is better in every way except accessibility compared to salvagers. This season i decided to finally work on getting the forbearance pattern completed. Then i did a gm a couple days ago and got the new grenade launcher, got a pretty decent roll but as much as i like how it feels and looks it doesnt have ambitious assassin and chain reaction so im gonna have to say forbearance is far better.
Side note, volt shot is good for stunning overload champs, something that forbearance can't do with its perks. So instead of looking at undercurrent as a discount forbearance, look at it as a sub launcher for instances where your build lacks the ability to stun overloads and you still want to use a arc wave frame. Like most guns in the game I think both have a place in your load out.
If you just run the raid once and get any roll on forbearance, you can always solo the first chest very easily after to farm for a roll. Finding a rhulk checkpoint is probably your best bet as it's one of only 3 weapons there. Undercurrent is a great option, but does get grindy trying to go for if you don't get rng luck. Took me 10+ GMs to finally get one with demo/volt, which I plan to use mainly only for my arc warlock build.
As a solo player with anxiety problems, I very much have enjoyed usage of the Fireteam Finder feature that was added. I used it to clear a GM to get undercurrent, but raids still just seem a bit too much for me. I'm more comfortable with 3-man content. I like Undercurrent, and have no opinion on Forbearance, because I don't have one. I don't think Undercurrent has to be as good as, or better than, Forbearance. I've enjoyed how over the past few seasons, the team has done a good job of adding weapons into the sandbox that allow for people to not necessarily get raid quality weapons, but stuff that gets close enough (A good example imo is Old Sterling from Season 21), through more accessible means. Some players, myself included, just can't, or aren't, capable of doing raids. And I'm okay with that meaning I don't get access to the better version of some weapons, and I like options like Undercurrent being added as a sort of "It's not X raid weapon, but it's good enough".
i got a stats for all + voltshot roll on the undercurrent and honestly im probably not going to use it (which sounds bad but tbh i just dont like the arc subclass), i have forbearance crafted and less than 1k kills on it so i think ill just stick to the utility that deafening whisper and explosive personality provide to my playstyle
I think people often forget why Forberance is so good, not only it's an ad clear monster, but the fact you get huge chunks of life back due to the origin trait is what makes this gun so good for me.
Came here to say this. The origin trait is so good
True, but with the , the original trait, you can get small health back as well on kills, but not as potent, still good as we really do not need that much healing.
tbf, undercurrent is probably the only weapon capable of procing stunning recovery reliably an safely without the help of seasonal mods and it's really strong, insta refill the mag, a good chunk of health and a ton of recovery is quite good. Obviously getting health just by hitting stuff is better than actually getting kills, but is not like we expected something better of a discount forbearance, plus sometimes you don't have time to get your health by reloading, so vindication might save you since it procs on kill.
Vanguard’s vindication does pretty much the same thing no?
@@shmc04 undercurrent requires kills for healing while forbearance just need hits.
I always assumed it’s supposed to be a “forbearance at home” weapon for players who aren’t ready to do the raid or don’t own it
It's even funnier since both have a healing origin trait, although vanguards vindication is kinda just like a burst from unrelenting while souldrinker is devour levels of health on forbearance
i mean voltshot waveframe can somewhat be a forbearance sidegrade for me cus it does cover a larger radius than CR, i feel like it’s just a preference thing if you have both
Hey that's me! I stopped raiding a couple years ago, so it's nice to finally upgrade from Salvager's Salvo
Undercurrent is the best
@@Stanley... pretty much tell your a noob why would I use volt shot when ads die in 1 shot 😂😂 it don’t make fucking sense
I'll probably end up using both depending on the modifiers for what im running. Demo voltshot is nice for grenade regen, and it can also stun overloads. Plus jolt chains farther than chain reaction. It's more of a side grade to forbearance
Depending on modifiers?? They're both arc
@@Lakrushmai think modifiers would be more accurately said as “build” grenades tend to have immense utility and depending on your build may even be vital. However, if they arent or you need to save them (Ie, if you have a damage rotation that relies on a grenade like strand warlock, but doesn’t feel quite as peeved about a few missing special ammo missing) then forbearance will slot in nicer with maybe a bit less thought.
Undercurrent primarily brings utility where forbearance brings raw power in a single field.
Yeah, I think Demo / Voltshot is the reason to run this. You can get a lot of energy for your grenade builds and there’s also general Arc synergy / anti-Overload tech from Voltshot. In terms of raw add clear effectiveness, though, there’s no beating Forbearance. This is still a really good weapon. I think it would have been more interesting as a Solar weapon with Incandescent, but that’s just me.
I remember when I first got forbearance and I really quickly wished I could get it with demo. And the demo void one feels OK . But now I can have my demo forbearance and I'm happy
Im more a solo player and demo and voltshot was my 1st ever adept undercurrent. I am happy w that.
The destiny community arguing? Naaaaaaah, don't believe it.
Sorry I mean I know right
That's too many "A's" grrr...*argue, argue, bicker, bicker* Ban Saltogreppo!
D 2 community all have under 5 inch tools confirmed.
como caralhos é que o teu comentário é o mais gostado
Imma start.. under current > forbearance
The roll I want is not ambitious voltshot, it’s demo voltshot, this roll is heavily leaning into arc subclass synergy and is my go to now, if I’m on arc or my subclass can use the help of demo. Demo is the main selling point for me here, since it’s the first energy wave frame since matyrs retribution to roll demo. Forbearance is still great and I will keep it using for anything else (i got 30k kills on mine)
Have to correct you, the Stasis waveframe from Ghost of the Deep can roll with Demo too
@@KushlnTheBush true. should have said energy. Edited it now, thanks
Demo is just a bit awkward with the fact that the free reload won't trigger voltshot.
@@LutelootsIt's more for the grenade energy
@@chrisborges7344ya it doesn’t matter on a wave frame except in maybe a pinch. The energy gains though baby
Tip to get forbearance without running the raid multiple times. If you get forbearance to drop once in your collection, you can solo the first secret chest in vow raid 3 times a week for red borders and get a good roll that way.
thats exactly what i did. i got cataclysmic and forbearance to drop from caretaker and then i just did the secret chest method until i got 5 of each. I used my harmonizers on both of them and was able to craft them! i also got s ton of spoils from that method
Solo kings
Dont forget the abyss chest on crota too if you're interested
that is exactly what i did lol, and any that werent red border i used my harmonizers on
@@jamesman226 don't you need more than 1 player to get to the abyss though?
i love that no one even mentions souldrinker pretty much full healing you every time you reload
It's a really good origin trait, but in the spirit of "well ackshually," it caps out at 80 health per reload. Enhanced Souldrinker back in the day was double that, but we'll likely never see that in the artifact again.
Souldrinker is the actual reason Forbearance is as good as it not Chain Reaction. Honestly Chain reaction on forb is the most overrated thing in the game.
the vangaurd origin trait heals as well. Unfortunately it is less healing than souldrinker BUT it procs on kill instead of on reload which can be a life saver in some situations
@@Aj-py8enThat's not even remotely true. People use Forbearance BECAUSE of chain reaction, not Souldrinker... if what you were saying is true, every waveframe is the same because you can just slap on Devour and get your health back after every kill.
@@jonahbrown5669 chain reaction does almost nothing for a wave frame that it doesn't already do by just being a wave frame. It's 80 damage over a 3 meter radius, compared to a wave frames 600 damage. Anything that would be hurt by the explosion is already dead from the wave.
It's not like salvagers salvo where it throws corpses for more AoE or even needs more AoE.
Volatile, a hilariously weak explosion, deals DOUBLE the damage in a 7 meter radius compared to chain reaction, and it doesn't need a kill. Any void wave frame with volatile rounds active blows forbearance out of the water when it comes to add clear.
People got and used forbearance because of chain reaction sure. After all it is super flashy and something unique to the weapon. But that's not the reason it's good. It's good because every reload heals you for 80 health and you only need to hit things for that to happen.
Also yes, every wave frame is basically the same when you use devour. Souldrinker heals you on hit, while devour needs a kill. And they do stack on hunter and titan after the changes this season. But yes. There's no real practical difference between wave frames when you have devour up. Wave frames are just really good on their own. You only need a utility or ammo perk to make them broken.
one imortant note about ambitious/voltshot is that the two perks do not synergize as well as demo/voltshot. Because only the first shot from your weapon applies jolt then only half of your shots from undercurrent will be applying jolt with ambitious assassin. With demo on the other hand you will be able to apply jolt to enemies more often than if you ran ambitious
Voltshot has more utility against beefier targets and in GM-level content, whereas Forbearance is much less potent in those scenarios. You can stun Overloads, apply jolt to a major or boss that will pulse lightning as more damage is done. I feel like that's the difference in the rolls here, plus having Demo as an option to keep your grenade uptime high.
End of the day let's be honest, no one is gonna use wave frames in GM-level content
@@rithvikmuthyalapati9754you sure about that one there bud?
@@rithvikmuthyalapati9754this is somehow one of the worst opinions I’ve seen today
@@rithvikmuthyalapati9754 Exactly, you're sacrificing a special slot to solve a problem that is dealt with by multiple, more effective alternatives anyway. Hell, I see and also ad clear with heavy weapons since heavy bricks are pretty abundant in GMs anyway.
@@rithvikmuthyalapati9754 Wish ender and forbearance is my go to loadout and then whatever surges decide the heavy. I’ve seen people use harsh language to spread destabilising rounds to a large group of enemies too. Wave frames are good
I think Demo Voltshot will fit a different roll then what forbearance does. And Im absolutely going to try and get one.
Absolutely do it. We have double drops this week and it only took me 2 runs of GM to get demo/volt. Good luck in your quest!
Good luck,I've ran the gm multiple times and not one voltshot has drooped, all high ground
I feel the origin trait difference is also very worth bringing up. The vow origin trait is incredible even more so with Ambitious and Chain reaction (more hits, more heals)
Undercurrent does give 7 health per kill, which isn't too bad with how it'll slay, but forbearance still takes the cake.
the correct answer is explosive personality, because while being a worse wave frame it is solar which means I get resto/ radiant extension on it while normally benefiting from my surges.
Why not just use a solar primary for empyrean extension?Or do you run a primarily an ability based build?
@@SavvyMon4because wave frames are better than primaries. That said, it lacks in raw clear potential. If we ever get an incan wave frame though, you best hold on to your shorts because we may not ever take it off.
@4EverSavvy Variety of situations. Often, I do use drang, mida, bxr, Zaolis, etc. But wave frames are really efficient clear compared to non-exotic primaries while also 1 shotting most mid-tier combatants. Also their ammo economy makes double special viable if needed. If I wanted to use both a wave frame and extend solar buffs with primary I'd have to clear with a solar primary and then run the stasis wave frame, at which point why am I running a wave frame if I'm clearing with my primary anyway?
Essentially, it is the same reasons you'd use a wave frame like forbearance in the first place, but with the added benefit of buff extensions.
@@atsukana1704 I do enjoy explosive personality quite a bit in pvp. Especially with a weapon like huckleberry. I have used it in pve to level it up and it’s def missing that one room clearing type of perk for sure
Just out of curiosity, what roll do you run? I originally crafted it with Auto-Loading/Disruption Break but realized I wasn't reaping the benefit of DB as often I had hoped so swapped it out for Frenzy and honestly, that damage and handling boost actually feels really crispy to me.
I got a 5/5 god roll adept on my first GM clear today.
But it's probably going to sit in my vault and collect dust, because I still feel like crafted forbearance is better.
Like you said, people who have access to forbearance are most likely to just keep using it, while non-raiders now have access to a waveframe that's almost just as good as forbearance.
We should all try to be just like you guardian. You’re the only guy ever to get a five out of five what a beast you’re bass dude.
Agreed, but how many people who can do and farm gms cant do raids?
@@vegancardigan non-adept nightfall weapons drop from non-GM nightfalls. Having an adept weapon isn't necessary imo. Someone who just wants the weapon can simply farm legend/master instead.
i have forbearance and will use this because i don't feel obligated to play the game with the same 3 weapons for 12 hours a day like most destiny addicted meta slaves.
@@palehorseriderxyeah adepts aren’t a big deal on non-heavy weapons (at least not for pve content). Especially with undercurrent specifically being a gl there’s really nothing extra it could do for you aside from maybe a reload speed or handling buff which is far from necessary
The voltshot demo could be really good for arc builds cause it's constant grenade regen plus jolt which gives ionic traces which is even more regen. On anything else, I'd say forbearance but imma be farming this GL for my arc boys.
I think both have their uses. I’ll personally use an unrelenting/chain reaction Forbearance for most higher level content and a Demo/Voltshot Undercurrent for stomping things like lost sectors, vanguard ops, low level trash clear, and soft speed running with strand grapple. These are the kind of decisions that weapon crafting SHOULD be making you think about. I don’t think any other archetype with a similar crafted counterpart has been this close as far as which is “better”, and that is a good thing. I hope closer “crafted vs farmed” archetype options like these come out in the future.
Leathal Current with envious assassin and destabilising is my favourite with 4 in the mag at times it blows up everything, but it never gets a mention
You mean Harsh Language the void waveframe?
Voltshot and stats for all is my go to, both perks work well together to speed up those reloads.
Heads up tho the shock from Voltshot doesnt proc things like stats for all.
But wave frames do make proccing that in a single shot easy so def a nice perk to either way.
I'd recommend you going something else, you can max out reload speed with mw and adept mods and handling can go up to 90 by its self, you can go lead from gold for ammo or field prep for more reserves, or the roll everyone wants which is demo voltshot, because it gives you grenade back almost instantly
5:48 you can cheese the boss and run to the boss with strand/ heat rises for getting to boss faster you can grapple up to the opening and the cheese is go even higher up and be mostly safe
The biggest barrier to most people raiding isn't lfg - it's time and the ability to use a mic.
I raided at least three times a week in D1, exclusively using LFG sites in the early days, and I had really great experiences for the most part. But now I largely play late at night when the family are in bed, so hopping on a mic just isn't an option. However, I can easily quickly find a couple of people to silently run GMs with for a couple of hours and not wake up the kids.
I'm really glad Bungie has implemented things to make it easier for people to find raid teams, and if you're nervous about playing with randoms online I honestly encourage you to give it a try. Despite the raging arguments you see on social media, most people are decent and supportive and arent going to rip you to shreds for missing a call out or having a trash build.
But for those of us for whom real life gets in the way, I'm glad we can farm GMs instead.
Thankfully got Undercurrent on my first LOS run so I can just build engrams for focusing. Since I don't raid and can't get Forbearance (hopefully I'll find time this season since it's so long), then I'll be using a Demo/Voltshot Undercurrent as a good substitute.
Drop your bungie name I'll do it with you. I love doing vow, especially with noobs
I feel like Undercurrent’s nice to get if you don’t feel like or don’t have access to grinding Vow of the Disciple. And if not doing Grandmaster grinds isn’t your thing, you can at least obtain the normal one and spend your Vanguard Engrams whenever you want from your regular Vanguard Ops play. I have yet to try my Voltshot roll, but we’ll see whenever I get around to playing with that.
5:00 you the hit the nail right there. I have plenty of friends who play D2 but because of this holiday season (RiP retail), overall time AND a few people whos apathy towards the whole game at this moment is at an all time high, i cant raid with those folks.
Luckily i had it drop for me so i can do the hidden chest thing But its easier for me to load up nightfall and just do that.
LFG is right there to help you out now.
Undercurrent Vs. Forbearance kinda reminds me of the blinding GL debate between Pardon our Dust and Ignition Code. Both are good, one is better. But one is much easier to get than the other. Whichever you have/want to get is fine, it only really matters how much time you want to put into it.
IF you know how to get to the first secret chest in Vow, you don't actually have to raid since that's just a weekly chest you can easily get every week per character that does drop it. It's not a big deal. I only did Vow maybe a handful of times but never got a forbearance until I started farming the first secret chest for weeks.
I didn't get a single good undercurrent but I did get an ambitious assassin / chain reaction forbearance almost immediately after doing the nightfalls so I guess everything worked out in the end
Lmao😂
Personally, when I saw it could get Voltshot, I figured it may not technically be better then forbearance, but at least on Arc subclasses it would really shine. Having it lean into the subclass verbs is a nice addition to have
Another thing to note is that if you play vow enough to get ONE forbearance you can slam your head against the hidden chest at the start of the raid on each character every week for 3 chances at the drop. (and fill in any non-red border drops with harmonizers but that takes a good few spoils)
if you only play the raid on one character you can also ignore the potential for armor drops polluting the pool on your subsequent other-character hidden chest rolls for a better chance of getting the gun.
0:48 The mag refill from demo is not more important than the grenade energy since it counteracts voltshot
2:47 Don’t use voltshot with ambitious assasin
Yeah was thinking stats for all is the better choice
@@Black2overlord Nah you can get 89 reload without a reload mod so stats for all isn’t really necessary.
I think lead from gold for double special or demolitionist for grenade energy are the third column perks I would want.
Got the stats for all voltshot roll. That quick reload after stats for all proc really help the gun! Wasting a ambitious assassin shot without voltshot seems like missing the point with this gun.
Never got a forbearance to drop in the raid😭 so this will do in the meantime
I like both BUT I will give Undercurrent a bit more love for one reason (maybe 2 depending if you run Demo), volt shot not only stuns champions but it also has a wider add clear radius than chain reaction even if you're not on arc sublass. Add that too demo and you have an add clearing, nade regen, monster. Again, but are top tier but I think Undercurrent just squeaks past Forbearance.
Jolt does stun Overload champions. @@Mottbox
the issue is both weapons are arc wave frames, but i comes down to what you like more do you want to have 3.0 verbs like jolt and having free nades then undercurrent is it.
but if you want to just blow stuff up then forbearance for obvious reasons, but each gun has pros and cons, one is better for arc 3.0's and one is just unquestionably fun and insane ad clear.
so the real question is, what one you want to use and build around.
I think Volt Shot on it makes it a valid option of use. Not to surpass Forbearance but to be equal.
Mainly because of its synergy with Arc.
Pro tip for those who are able to get a raid group but can't literally always get one set up:
After getting your first Forbearance drop, you can actually get it from the secret chests in the raid, and the very first chest is easy to grab weekly solo. It's how I've gotten my Forbearances for the last few weeks that I'll use Deepsight Harmonizers on to eventually get my crafted one as I cannot raid weekly or even monthly, and sometimes the raid I am able to do isn't VOW. You still have to get that initial drop, but once you do, save the ones you get to harmonize. It'll be worth it.
I feel like it needs mentioning that Undercurrent has some questionable perk synergy, in regards to the combo of demo plus voltshot; where the reload granted by demo will not trigger voltshot. Still decent for the grenade energy regen but even then GL's refund less energy with demo than other special weapons which is unfortunate.
It's also worth pointing out that Forbearance has an S tier origin trait with souldrinker which is basically a built in unrelenting on top of whatever other perks you choose.
For anyone that is reluctant to raid it's also worth pointing out that you CAN get a forbearance with minimal raiding required if you simply do the boss checkpoint until you get a single weapon drop, at which point you can then farm the 1st free bonus chest on all 3 characters every week until you get all of the red borders for the weapon, either through actual red border drops or with harmonizers. The smaller your loot pool the better in this instance and in particular it's good to have not done the raid at all on 2 of your characters as this will ensure you have no armor drops in the loot pool to potentially get from the chest. If you somehow get forbearance to drop from a single boss CP such that it's the only weapon in your loot pool you'll guaranteed get 5 copies (4 extra after the 1st) in just 2 weeks from 2 chests on each of your other characters, assuming the character who did the boss CP only has a 50% chance due to likely getting an armor piece as well from the boss CP.
For anyone interested, any roll with attrition orbs is garbage so it's safe to dismantle (yes, even ones with demo), I ran some test, it seems too inconsistent to test as there's no boss that isn't filled with adds at some point, doesn't teleport or is sitting on a heavily uneven floor, but my rough estimate is that 9 hits are required to proc (no, multi-kills only counts as one per shot) so at best, you get two small orbs (1.6% super energy) and 2 amor charges per total reserves.
what about demo/statsforall and high ground is it safe to dismatle
4:55 was a good SpongeBob impression tbh LOL
I would probably not recommend getting the Ambitious Assassin roll with Voltshot as you're making half of your reserves not have Voltshot. You're probably better off with Demo for the means to get grenade energy back.
I could see Bait and Switch being decent with something like Dragons Breath.
But Id probably rather use a fusion for special DPS on bosses.
Different element and waveframe isnt the best for dps imo
The NF GL with Demo/Voltshot pairs heavenly with Lucky Raspberry.
Demo obviously gives grenade energy as well as Voltshot procs.
That being said it still plays into the almost mandetory arc build he mentioned.
I enjoy undercurrent so much more but im an arc warlock main so that probably explains it
I don’t why the word douchy always makes me laugh, but it does.
Thanks for the video. Figured I’d never be able to put in the time commitment to get Forbearance, but even I can handle a Nightfall.
I have a forebearance from doing three or four Rhulk kills (which were done just before my first RoN where i got the Conditional Finality) i think i got two red borders there and then it took me one season to run the VoW chest and get it plus the pulse which were my only two weapons i had drop
I have both of these weapons now. And I also got my ideal undercurrent roll of demo/lead from gold+voltshot on my first GM clear. I will say though, using undercurrent outside of an arc subclass feels a tad bit off but I can see it's pontential. It is almost on par as forbearance, which is a rather high bar.
Why didn’t you mention the verb synergy difference between voltshot and chain reaction specifically. For you ocd guardians out there like me, this here makes undercurrent above its old and tired competitor.
You had me for a second with the High Ground thing, I've deleted like 6 of them so far🤣
You hit the nail in the head with the voltshot synergy. Basically, on arc, if you want to run a kinetic primary, undercurrent is the best pick. On every other class, forbearance is more consistent.
tip for those doing the GMNF, run GLs instead of Rockets, lets you still cook the boss before he even starts wandering around the room, and far less danger to the players unaliving themselves. My friends and I use either Cataphract with bait and switch, or Koraxis's with surrounded.
I think voltshot stunning overload champs isnt stated enough here. Also, does undercurrent get bonus perks with vanguard reputation resets? I forget how it works for nightfall weapons
Have the crafted Forbearance and Adept Undercurrent... Got different rolls on both so they could be used in different ways.
I say Undercurrent because '"'Ive already had Forbearance and i want to know what someone-- I mean, something else feels like "
Also for those who dont have Forbearance craftable yet, just pointing out that the first Secret Chest in Vow can be acquired solo pretty easily. (You do have to kill the first Savathun to open the door, but you can ''avoid' the Payload part starting by hugging the wall so you wont get Pervading Darkness and you can continue on to open the chest with no adds. Though your chances to get just that one gun may be lower. You can also do it x3 characters per week to slowly chip away at progress if you really dont want to raid. Thanks fallout , I love your accurate imitation of our "but Fallout" voice. Well done
i got an adept undercurrent (ambitious/voltshot) and tried it out. it performs fine, but the feeling of it will never match forbearance. ALSO, forbearance’s origin trait is AMAZING. like, possibly top 5 origin traits in the game. it is so good, it feels so nice to gain back a chunk of health on a whim while using it
I like undercurrent, it’s really good! But Forbearance (especially with enchanted perks, though I guess undercurrent can also be adept). The life regain that Forbearance gives from its origin trait but just puts it over the edge. That’s the cherry on top of the already god roll.
I just got 3 of them and one as the high ground and lead from gold roles on and other 2 as the demolition role on
Forbearance is so good it made me decide to jump into vow. It also helps that once you understand the strat, Rhulk is pretty doable to farm with LFGs.
always a good evening when hearing our lord Fallout
Demo Voltshot is such a nice roll. Especially for Lucky Raspberry with its recent buff. I throw my grenade, use Undercurrent, and I immediately get it back.
I feel like the overload stun on undercurrent is so worth it to me, and the fact that you get ability energy with it makes it more worth for me
but wouldnt the overflowing from the ambitios assassin conflict with the fact that voltshot requires you to reload after the kill to proc?
Those comments at the beginning are MY people. I solo/duo dungeons and nightfalls at best. I don't like that I feel I don't have access to raids I paid for either, but here we are!
I do got both, but I have'nt had time to test the head to head. I don't like using forbearence as much as I thought when I got it crafted. You run out off ammo so quick and it is in the energy slott where all the build weapons are as sunshot, trinety ghoul etc
You said the word "skeleton key" and now I must go do another Skyrim stealth archer playthrough
Somehow stumbled into a Vow pug. Honestly don't know how i got there, was drinking and i never drink or raid even.
But got down a couple bosses and got armor and a forbearance.
Like 2 months later my brain made the connection that I can focus farm forbearance on all my characters for a godroll/reds through chest. As a non raid solo it felt like the lottery for a minute.
The only use i find for bait and switch on a special is if you have tractor cannon or dragon's breath or anarchy or parasite in heavy slot
*You have me inspired to start making vids.* Much love and major props to you Fallout 😪
You just spam the same comment over and over dudes it’s sad
I think people are forgetting that voltshot can linger in larger targets (aka mini bosses, majors, bosses) and helps with dps just a little since it’s a debuff. Also, this can have adept big ones spec, boosting that damage even more. Yes I’m not doing damage to a boss with this thing alone, but the thought of killing some adds and then debuffing them with voltshot cause if a little bit more damage then switching to a rocket thats buffed up by BAS is more appealing then just solely killing adds with no way to really help damage a boss, mini boss, or major. In my books, my crafted forbearance just got replaced.
Once you get a copy of Forebearance getting it craftable is pretty easy, you could just find a Rhulk checkpoint and run it how many more times you need to and buy it with the one redboarder you can buy per reset.
If you don't need arc or want one to go with a void build, I've got a Harsh Language with Envious Assasin and Destabilizing Rounds that goes pretty hard on trash mobs and pretty well reloads itself.
My first GM clear I got 2 attrition orb/lead from gold rolls. I very quickly learned that attrition orbs is either bugged or doesn't work with wave frames.
It works but takes waaaaay to many hits. You have to hit - ton kf enemies to proc with a single shot. I thought I generated one in 3 hits but that might have been Reaper.
On bosses dont even bother. It takes like 5 shots on a boss to get it to proc.
@ROFLWAFFLELAWL4 it was probably the reaper perk as i had hit 3+ enemies on multiple occasions and didn't spawn any. Then I figured that it probably followed rocket launcher rules and you had to hit an enemy with 2 rockets before 1 orb spawned. Luckily one of my rolls had envious assassin as an alternate perk, but even hitting enemies with 2 grenades in a row it wouldn't spawn an orb. So then I tried shooting 3 times in a row and still didn't spawn an orb. So I reported it to bungie help as being bugged.
Might be just me but ammo economy seems strange on the undercurrent. Starting numbers, special ammo drops seem way throttled when I use it. Demolitionist/jolt on it is very nice if youre running arc titan or grenade centrist builds.
I feel like there's two launchers that have been left out of this discussion (particularly when discussing Forbearance alternatives): Prodigal Return and more notably Salvager's Salvo. Prodigal is obtainable from Season of Defiance activities and has some good rolls which includes voltshot. Salvo can be obtained from the Monument to Lost Lights for 75k glimmer, 2 enhancement prisms, and 1 ascendant shard. Salvo was the Forbearance before we had Forbearence and I sometimes switch to it if the terrain is particularly hostile to wave frames (like in Ghosts of the Deep or any arena with weird terrain).
But both don’t have the ease of use that a wave frame provides
Yeah none are wave frames which are arguably the best PvE GLs.
A lot of people always forget that salvagers salvo also has demo/vorpal on it as well, making it useful for some some boss fights.
Have 40k plus kills on both salvagers and a crafted forbearance. They both have their place in the game. And both are better than undercurrent in my opinion. Wave frames can be just as finicky as regular GLs as well. Hit map geometry the wrong way and your waveframe goes behind you, or under the map, or into space. And, in a pinch, there's not really any direct impact damage from them either.
Volt shot is really good for the fragment that allows traces to form after a jolt kill but that is only arc classes, but also the volt shot helps with targeted kills since the arc does chain rather just damage around like CR and is easier to obtain in NFs than a 6 man raid but forbearance is just really good for the origin perk that gives health after reloads, being better with AA
The problem with Undercurrent is that voltshot has a timer. It makes me feel like I'm missing out if I'm not actively using it compared to Forbearence and chain reaction which I can just pull out whenever I want
i got my godroll, with stats for all and voltshot first run, then I use the thingy on the subclass that says arc special kills have a blinding explosion, that combo with stats for all for loads of reload speed, i really enjoy it, I get that not a lot might agree but thats fine :)
Edit: forgot to say why, I prefer it because as someone with social anxiety the idea of a raid is terrifying so unless i can do it no comms I just don't and vow is one I can't do no comms so I just decided not to get forbearance
If you get a single forbearance, you can start running the intro 3x a week for the secret chest and use deep site harmonizers if you really don't want to raid again. This also works for any DSC weapons, and technically last wish weapons through the wish wall as well though that's way too much time commitment imo. (But also just keep raiding and make 'friends' with the nicer randoms until you have a squad, its hard but worth it.)
I thought you could only apply a single Deepsight per weapon
@@ImmaculateOttercorrect, but once you get one to drop it enters the secret chest lootpool, letting you farm those for the drop
@TitanFaIIen One per drop of a weapon. So you would need 5 seperate foreberences, but you could use a deepsight on each. It might take quite a while to get lucky enough for that if you're just doing the secret chests, but you'll also be getting random rolls of any weapons in your loot pool so it won't be wasted time. Plus it takes ~3 minutes to do or about 5-6 for DSC so pretty easy.
@@BirdMoose no you cant. you an only use one deepsight harmonizer on a gun and that's it u cant use another on a different drop of the same gun
Yo what build are you using right before 5:00 ? Really curious please & thank you
It’s nice that we have two strong options. No point in arguing when we should just be grateful.
I remember running a bleak watcher spam build a while back and wanting to run a gl with demo but my only good option was salvager's salvo since there weren't any wave frames with demo at the time (rip martyr's retribution). I'd say the only real use cases for undercurrent are with specific arc stuff or just having demo on a wave frame that's better than new pacific epitaph. In a 1-1 comparison with forbearence, undercurrent doesn't really stand a chance, but it can at least do something forbearence can't.
I've got a AMBITIOUS ASSASSIN/ATTRITION ORBS build and it's really interesting. Getting guaranteed orbs every shot feels like something I could build around and makes it more flexible using it outside of Arc builds. I haven't messed too much with building around it but I feel that there is something there.
Also, someone in another TH-cam review of the gun mentioned that VOLTSHOT only work on the first shot and not the second, can anyone confirm that? I feel that would really undermine the perk and I haven't gotten one with AMBITIOUS ASSASSIN/VOLTSHOT to test myself.
IMO there’s really only two rolls to go for on this weapon that I do want. Unfortunately they require 3 perks being demo, ambitious and bait n switch. For damage setups with other bait and switch options. the other is lead demo, lead and volt for the overload capability that forbearance doesn’t have in GM’s n things. Great vid fallout!!
Never attempted Vow raid and it looks like a royal piita to communicate all those symbols, etc...
Just got an undercurrent with lead from gold/voltshot and realizing I've rarely used wave frames and getting used to shooting the ground lol
I was in tears about the High Ground perk! damn! Anyways, it’s definitely Meme material for Obi Wan & Anakin.
I could very well be wrong, but I feel like voltshot would perform better in something related to end-game content. Chances of getting that first kill are lower to get chain reaction going consistently, but if you manage to get that kill, the jolt impact would be better at spreading and chaining the damage. Then again, I don't really know, just thinking of possibilities.
Thats my thought process. Chain reaction will be king for overall pure add clearing but for anything else Id pick Undercurrent. Jolt has way better utility with anti champ, aoe damage, and boss damage.
Plus being able to also roll Demo and/or Lead From Gold, something Forbearance cant roll IIRC, I find it way more appealing.
another underrated aspect of Forbearance is the origin trait Soul Drinker is kind of like unrelenting considering that you smash 5-6 ads and get your health back. I understand that for some people raiding isn't an option and for that Undercurrent is a viable alternative.
Forbearance - King of ad clear
Undercurrent - Forbearance, but with less ad clear power, but way more utility (demo, lead from gold, voltshot vs overload)
And Jolt : Anti champ, add clear capabilities, and extra boss damage.
I don't really get why forbarance is "clearly" the better option when looking at preformance. Does it have that much better stats, or better colomn 1 and 2 perks, or is chain reaktion just better than voltshot?
I've got adept version after 2 gm runs. Masterwork: velocity . Left column : ambisius or demo to choose , right column : voltshot . Looks like a supergodroll to me
I only did one GM and got Hard Launch, LFG/Field Prep, Voltshot, and a reload masterwork.
Demo + Volshot and Ambitious Assassin + Voltshot are two rolls I don't really recommend, I mean, they sound good on paper but...
* Demo + Volshot = Demo is very inconsistent with voltshot kills, also, Demo doesn't proc Voltshot.
* AA + Voltshot = I mean, the loop of Voltshot is to kill + reload+ kill with voltshot + reload + kill with voltshot + reload + kill with voltshot + etc. AA brake that loop, but can work if you want to swap weapons.
Demo + One for All/Adrenaline are better option for grenade energy.
Stats for All + Voltshot/One for All/Adrenaline or AA + One for All/Adrenaline are optimal for add clear.
I want a void and solar wave frame gl that has the forbeance roll so I can have that add clear and build into other classes.
I'm still rockin my Salvager's Salvo, it's been locked in that slot since I got it
undercurrent is great for an arc focused grenade build w/ demolitionist/voltshot roll, lots of ionic traces for sweet nade regen
One of my favorite grenade launchers will always be salvagers salvo. It holds a special place in my heart even though i know full and well that forbearance is better in every way except accessibility compared to salvagers. This season i decided to finally work on getting the forbearance pattern completed. Then i did a gm a couple days ago and got the new grenade launcher, got a pretty decent roll but as much as i like how it feels and looks it doesnt have ambitious assassin and chain reaction so im gonna have to say forbearance is far better.
BnS could get use for double-dipping on the damage. Could be good on any other frame for sure.
Side note, volt shot is good for stunning overload champs, something that forbearance can't do with its perks. So instead of looking at undercurrent as a discount forbearance, look at it as a sub launcher for instances where your build lacks the ability to stun overloads and you still want to use a arc wave frame. Like most guns in the game I think both have a place in your load out.
Voltshot for an Arc Trace build is what tips it for me
If you just run the raid once and get any roll on forbearance, you can always solo the first chest very easily after to farm for a roll. Finding a rhulk checkpoint is probably your best bet as it's one of only 3 weapons there. Undercurrent is a great option, but does get grindy trying to go for if you don't get rng luck. Took me 10+ GMs to finally get one with demo/volt, which I plan to use mainly only for my arc warlock build.
As a solo player with anxiety problems, I very much have enjoyed usage of the Fireteam Finder feature that was added. I used it to clear a GM to get undercurrent, but raids still just seem a bit too much for me. I'm more comfortable with 3-man content. I like Undercurrent, and have no opinion on Forbearance, because I don't have one. I don't think Undercurrent has to be as good as, or better than, Forbearance. I've enjoyed how over the past few seasons, the team has done a good job of adding weapons into the sandbox that allow for people to not necessarily get raid quality weapons, but stuff that gets close enough (A good example imo is Old Sterling from Season 21), through more accessible means. Some players, myself included, just can't, or aren't, capable of doing raids. And I'm okay with that meaning I don't get access to the better version of some weapons, and I like options like Undercurrent being added as a sort of "It's not X raid weapon, but it's good enough".
forbearance is king, but ppl forget waveframes in general are goated
Can you proc bait and switch on two weapons at the same time? Like with a power weapon and this? I don't have any weapons with that perk
i got a stats for all + voltshot roll on the undercurrent and honestly im probably not going to use it (which sounds bad but tbh i just dont like the arc subclass), i have forbearance crafted and less than 1k kills on it so i think ill just stick to the utility that deafening whisper and explosive personality provide to my playstyle