Yes, you will become invincible. No matter the outcome of the match your opponent will never be able to be happy about the win Cause the whole time you were using a guitar hero controller.
I think my main problem with a controller is how I can't guess where the directions are exactly. I press down, no, I'm pressing Diagonal Forward. I try to do a swipe from Down to the Right but no, what I did was Diagonal Back to Diagonal Forward Up. One thing I liked about the GameCube control was how the joystick housing had grooves in an octagon which would guide it in perfect direction. The Xbox One control gives me that problem a lot so the fight stick may be a decent alternative.
+Jaziel Rivera Yeah I used to do that. Now I have problems the likes of my fucking movement isn't right for some dipshit reason and (SF mostly fighter here) no DP and no fireball when you want it, shit even a hurricane kick, is like saying "here, you play SF without any specials". Don't get me started on the parry on a controller. I still pull it off, but its abysmal. No matter how much you limit these problems (like the one you are saying) I find in the end that your really fall into new problems. PS controller was a little better for fighting games. But Xbox... Fuck! I am stuck with an Xbox 360 controller atm. Man, is that thing abysmal! (Whatever is left of it, my rage has both thumbsticks broken and a piece missing from behind... can you blame me? lol) Used to kick ass on my PSone controls once I was used to them. It was perfect. Then I simply wanted to play SF3 which was only arcade at the time. Took a little learning. But once it was done, man did I realise how much better fighting sticks are. So imagine now. I am an arcade stick lover, and I am stuck not only with a controller, but the worst one around, and not only the worst one around, but also a busted version of it >.< The amount of control it takes that I don't break it to pieces completely comes from thinking I won't have anything to play with till I get my hands on a fightstick.
+DCF - HazardReborn "here, you play SF without any specials" - This. I have no problem admitting that I am new to SF and that fighting games are not my strongest genre. But holy fucking balls, that quarter quarter kick for Cammy pisses me off to no end =.=
Chameleon EDM Cassie Cage? Yeah MK timings never did it for me period in all their moves, except for MKX. I found that to be the best MK I played in a while. MK9 was also good. All that other garbage betwwen MKTrilogy and MK9 was completely over my head, lol. SF5 atm at least finally has made moves more accessible. Wrote my initial comment before I got my hands on it. Would you believe it? I execute moves at a better percentage now even with my busted controller! LOL.
Ikr,i play USFIV with keyboard xD and well i tried arcade stick and i had that muscular memory,and i did the same i did in the keyboard and it was better(especially for guys like zangief)
+S0m3 DUd3 666 Well after training a little bit its not that hard anymore, on a gamepad still is dificult for me but on Arcade Stick is not really that much now
+DiRT_SHARK Make sure to get a battop for it if you're used to American arcade cabinets. The little ball can be kinda crappy, especially if you have bigger hands.
The thing with a balltop is that you don't hold on to it. You float your hand around it. Then all you do is tap.by moving the wrist in the direction you want to go. You got to flow and not grip.
True. After all, the winner at EVO 2012 in SSFIV AE used a controller. Which is especially impressive seeing as how it's a 6 button fighter. Most fighting games nowadays use 4 buttons. SCV, TTT2, MK9, KOF13, etc. So, it's completely fine to use a controller if it's what you're used to. I personally use a controller for every fighting game I play. Plus you can play wherever on a moments notice without having to carry around a stick. The only downside is that the D-pad can wear down after a while.
I've played on controllers my entire life, and switched to stick a year or two ago. For me, the difference is unbelievable. As a KoF player, I had a crazy hard time learning how to HD activate and charge (ie. Rising Tackle). That said, there are some motions that were hard to relearn for me, namely double quarter circles.
I find the arcade stick is much easier, at least for me. Not because of the button layout, but because of the large stick itself. It makes inputting the stick movement motions for some moves much easier. With a regular controller, I was finding it very difficult to get the more complex movement commands because there isn't as much control with a d pad or thumb stick as there is with an arcade stick. I was throwing hadokens when I was trying to pull off shoyrukens, fur example, with a regular controller. But with an Arcade stick, the inputs just feel a lot easier to pull off.
It's often to do with the gate on the stick. Xbox d-pads are goddamn awful, so you're better with the thumb stick, but even then it's a bit shit. Thumb sticks have a circular gate, making it too easy to accidentally input a quarter circle when trying to do a DP, but a stick with a square gate makes it physically impossible to do that. The stick's gate is important
I was given a arcade stick as a gift 2 months ago and I've been getting my butt kicked ever since. Been plenty of times I've wanted to throw the stick up against the wall and go back to controller but I've stuck with it (mostly due to the fact that it was a gift lol). I'm now beginning to get a bit used to it. Still trying to work on that muscle memory.
I highly recommend the MayFlash sticks. They're never more than 60 bucks and use real arcade buttons like Hori or MadCatz. The reason they're so cheap is because you're not paying extra for the plexiglass or wood furniture. Besides I can go to my buddy's wood shop in his house and make a wood case and just take the guts and the buttons out and place them in the new case. Or you can buy a board and some buttons and wood and make your own sticks if you have the tools to do so. The MAME community is really big on custom sticks.
Skankerman Studios Ok thanks for the info definitely getting one now since you have nothing negative to say about it plus for sixty bucks it wont hurt me if i don't like it.
Good luck man keep at it I did a few months ago trying to getting used to the arcade stick but it's so enjoyable to relearning everything. But I still feel a bit off with stick but I'm sure it will go away
im glad someone has been straight forward like you because there seems to be a lot of hype behind joysticks these days, and they are really not as cool as people think, don't get me wrong , I prefer joysticks over pad for fighting games but a joystick doesn't make you better ultimately what makes you better is your will power and willingness to learn and be patient, so yeah that's what I think.
Picked up a fight stick after seeing this because I really wanna get better at fighting games (and I would say I am pretty good at them to begin with) And I got the Tekken 6 horiFight Stick for 360 at GameStop for 6 bucks! works like a charm!
One problem I have is that I use a regular controller (PS3) and the analog stick goes in every direction while a stick only goes in the necessary 8 directions. That's not the only reason I suck at fighting games though.
There's always different restrictor gates you can buy as well for your sticks. Some are round like traditional American "bat" sticks and some are octagonal. The ones found in must sticks including the MadCatz ones are usually square like the old Japanese style ones.
Completely agree, Max. Playing on my Arcade Stick just makes the fighting game experience much more fun. When I first started, I was really awful...but rather than switching back, I kept at it, and now it feels as natural as it did back in the Arcade days. It makes me feel like I'm playing in the Arcade again! Since newer fighting games like Marvel Vs Capcom 3 and Street Fighter X Tekken never saw an Arcade release, this is pretty much the closest to an Arcade experience we'll have with them.
I too grew up with arcades... But I'm cheap lol. I WAS going to get the collectors addition of injustice so i could get the fight stick... but once again, I was too cheap lol
I was going to do that too, personally, I just wanted the fight stick but I didn't have enough money to get it. So i'm still stuck with a xbox box controller which is relatively hard to use at fighting games.
I was cheap too, then I said scew it. The cheapest, but highly effective is the Madcatz TEs (tournament edition). They the standard several pros won touraments with them and force HORI to step thier game up. Ya should on ebay and get one. moding them and fixing are cheap too. TEs are the standards anything less equal defeat. Lol also use TH-cam to research at a Starbucks and relax (thier prices just went up so McDonald's coffee is too both has free wifi). lol
i actually ended up buying the Injustice Battle Edition Arcade Stick($40), its a pretty good beginner stick but its not for high level play. since then i bought the Madcatz Street Fighter x Tekken Tournament Edition PRO - Line($150) and the Madcatz Marvel vs Capcom 3 Tournament Edition Stick($120) both are AMAZING. i stll prefer the controller for majority of fighting games but whenever i pop in usf4 or skullgirls i love these sticks. Now I'm looking to buy the Madcatz Street Fighter 4 Tournament Stick
I dont even see how people like UMvC3 its pretty much "whoever gets hit first loses because the other guy will get you in an endless looping combo chain. GGWP"
I'd like to say thanks max because I have always thought about buying a stick and hearing this made me want to go out and get a stick right away and I'm really excited to play using it
One reason to switch to stick is because you can customize it. You can change the way your joystick works. For example, you can change the spring to affect how fast the joystick goes back to a neutral position when you move it. There's also actuators, which affect how much you have to move the stick before the direction input is inputted. Then there's also microswitches which affect how much force it takes to actuate the things that make the directional inputs. And lastly, there's the ball top or bat top that you can put on top of your joystick. And there's also some button customization as well, but I won't get into that unless someone asks. Anyways, fightsticks are awesome. I think that anyone can play better on a fightstick than a regular controller because you can customize your fightstick to be whatever fits you best. If you have the money and like fighting games, get a fightstick.
I use a keyboard for USF4 (PC) ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°) It works pretty damn well EXCEPT for 360 and 720 inputs. 360 inputs are still very well possible, but there's a lot of room for error. 720 inputs on the other hand are a bitch and a half.
+NuclearUnicorn7 Man it was a pain. Like 1 year...1 Freaking year was suffering trying to play Garou, Mortal Kombat and among other like Street Fighter EX2 Plus on my emulator when some problems occurred in my family, I say goodbye to all my consoles and stick with Emulators in my PC, which is not a bad thing but emulation is not for me the major part of time. I really downgraded playing with Shadow Geist (My Main in SF EX) and MK was aceptable but bad as well. Keyboard is horrible for Fighting games, but other of my favorite like Gradius, Darius or many other Shoot Em ups and Arcade games like "Aliens (Konami)" are pretty well played on a Keyboard. I prefer Arcade Sticks and some times, GamePads for those class of games because a Ball-Top arcade stick help me, a Keyboard...not really.
I think the only games I'd ever use a fight stick for are Capcom's versus series,tekken 3,and king of fighters. Why? Because these games I specifically remember and have physically played in an arcade. I loved every second of it and because arcades are pretty much the textbook definition of a sad,rotting corpse,I can forever relive the memories of playing those games in an arcade although still knowing I'll never be able to relive that social aspect of playing a random stranger.
Please create a video retrospective on the Killer Instinct franchise, you have great ephemera in your studio that more than a few of us would enjoy hearing the backstory on. Keep up the great work and supporting/creating content for the FGC in general
Please tell me I'm not the only that prefers a controller over a fight stick? DPs and Fireballs are to weird for me to remember correctly. A controller I can pull off large combos no problem but with a fight stick? Nah.
The Ps4 contoller (and the Ps Vita) work surprisingly well. I almost exclusively use the D-Pads, and mainly play 4-button fighters, like BlazBlue, Tekken, or Injustice. Street Fighter's 6 Buttons will probably confuse my brain until the end of time though.
I'm glad I listened to this. Playing USF4 on the xbox 360, there are times I wondered if a arcade stick would help increase my skill. But realizing that it's just another option to playing a fighting game rather than a requirement to get better is a relief.
true...I noticed it the first time back then with T6 online, when I fought people who dashed and sidestepped a lot faster and more frequently, I was like "how dafuq do they do that?"
Louis Brooks pads have the upper hand in mobility imo because of the short range of motion ur thumb needs to travel I can wave dash perfectly its just a matter of practice
I feel the opposite. It's super easy for me to dash with the pad and I struggle to do it consistently with a stick. I just find the quarter circle type motions to be easier with a stick.
cool video Dood. I can't believe I haven't watched it until now. Like Max I learnt arcade controls out of necessity. I played a bit of SF II as a kid on arcade and got the general idea but it wasn't until I got heavily into A3 on arcade that it really clicked. It's worth noting that I didn't have the home version of SF II as a kid. It wasn't until the early 2000s that I had any form of SF that I could play at home and practice on. And that is where it became clear to me how awkward and weird playing on pad was. The thing people tend to forget about console controllers is they aren't primarily designed for fighting games. The NES and SNES controllers are primarily designed for platformers and other games where you hold down either left or right to move your character and one of the face buttons to jump. The SNES could support fighting games due to it's graphical capabilities and the number of buttons on the controller but the button layout wasn't well suited to this type of game and because the playstation copied a lot from the SNES the playstation controller had many of the same problems except that the additional shoulder buttons made it possible to have both heavy attacks on the right side of the controller. As for controllers with an analogue thumbstick they're designed primarily for 3D motion. Those analogue thumsticks are ok for moving a character on a 2D plane but it's hard to be precise with directional control.
+Big_Mike81 Mortal Kombat has easy execution like back-forward, down-back, down-forward etc. Theres no circular motions and Z motions which is why a lot of players use the console's controller rather than spending like $100-200 on an arcade stick for just one game. However there's one character with tight execution and thats Liu Kang(Dragon's Fire). Hes on like another level.
Jake Neville I'm using a stick right now and it feels a thousand times better than playing with a pad. That's of course how I feel though because I know a very good pad warrior.
this guy gets into some good points , for all you people who are new to games like these or want to start using a joystick more or are just starting to use one , please listen to this vid it really does hit some really great points listen and it can only help.
Aw, it's a pitty that you didn't include the comparison with people that play with keyboard (like me, but we must be like 3 or 4 lol) but what you shared was still useful. Thanks and good job ;)
I totally agree. the only things I can't do on a controller are certain option selects/zangief maneuvers. I must say though... with certain characters those option selects are a MUST - if you want to play at the highest level.
I have felt the power of the stick just got mine today and just after a few hours of getting used to the layout i'm improving rapidly. And now I frown at the thought of ever going back to controller where you can mash out combos on the control pad the stick forces you to be correct in your motions and button inputs which while it wont eliminate errors it greatly reduces them because you actually have to think analytically vs mushing the dpad in hopes to get a move out i am forever changed praises be unto Max!
JSCOTT033 those are good sticks the hori rap series, my brother has one in Japan he uses when we play fighting games on PS3, here in Canada I have a madcatz te, if you're a beginner there is a hori smaller stick for $40-50 the buttons and jfl are not the higher grade but it is low risk and decent stick usually recommended for new stick players or for those that want a small stick. Don't buy the small madcatz alpha or the street fighter 5 pads from madcatz, those are junk, only the te line from madcatz are worth investing in but they are steep. $240-$330 in Canada, my PS3 te stick is supported in sfv otherwise I'd get a hori rap 4, they even have a version with like 30% silenced buttons. Depends on you maybe play with a friends stick a bit (hardeeharharhar) to see if you like the feel versus pad, it takes a while to get good with one. It's not an instant advantage like max says, street fighter games I want a stick but most others I like using pad fine. Easier to dash etc in pad lower range of motion, on stick more reliable buttons /combos with practice. Good luck but hori is a safe bet, my brother likes his and there are some nice stuff from razer and others, but budget wise hori seems to be the only decent option. One advantage of going with a rap or te is they can be resold easily because of the quality and reputation, if you're not interested in modding you can save some money with the non mod focused versions. Good luck.
Not sure about that. In canada i have less options for controllers etc without importing. Id try and find some forum posts for that stick being used for games you will play. The hori mini for $35-50 is likely the lowest risk though but its not as good buttons /jfl as rap etc. But my advise is to spend $50 or less or get a solid stick maybe some place near you sells them or you can go to a fightinh game event and ask people about theirs. I spent $100 cad on the old street fighter 4 madcatz stick it was trash and gamespot had no return bought a te off Amazon a few months later. Hori seems to be the value brand. If you can return the stick mentioned then maybe try it, but sticks and headphones are coupled with buyers remorse these days. Merry Christmas / happy holidays.
I just looked it up and found some redit comments on it. I think it's a wash versus a sale on a rap to be honest. This requires a ds4 which puts me off, and the explicitly say sanwa button size. Maybe at $50-60usd but no more and id be worried about native ps4 support or not like my ps3 te working with sf5 via ds4 and legacy support. Now any other fighting game i can expect zero support like mkx etc. Tekken i will play pad but that might get legacy. Seems a modable stick the mayfair again I'd see how your hands feel on it if you can. If you are talking no native ps4 support have to mod right away and $100+ its a bad deal. These things are relative. The madcatz stick i first bought i could have put sanwa stuff in and many did. The reason i didn't was the feel of the case and size. I'd buy used maybe as well Kijiji etc might offer an option. Anyways hopefully things to help decide. See what $50-60 will get thats a ds4 price or just wishlist a few and wait for a deal on a sure thing.
I get ya. At first I thought you didn't know what you were talking about. Then I remembered that theory, and figured out you were talking about something most people don't know about. You were just on another level lol. As for the term, I guess "muscle memory" rolls off the tongue better than "reflexive memory".
I use keyboard for PC fighting games and I love it. I use a G.SKILL KM780 with Cherry MX Brown switches and I my layout for Street Fighter V on is WASD for movement and on the numpad 4,5,6 for punches and 1,2,3 for kicks. The only thing that sucks is that 360 motions are literally impossible to do unless you change jump to the space bar. Other than that though quarter circles, half circles, and DP motions can be done effortlessly. People mainly hate on keyboard because they've either never used it or they used the shitty $15 membrane keyboard that came with their computers or they even used their even shittier laptop keyboard. You get what you pay for with fight sticks and controller, and the same goes for keyboards. Keyboard would actually be better for PC fighting game players as well since you can get a high quality Cherry MX mechanical keyboard for $70 that will last you years, while the cheaper decent fightsticks go for $90 starting with the Qanba Q1
supersonicstep if u can play on keyboard, it'll be far more superior. everything is a tap, not a circle motion. there was this one guy in sf4 who played with keyboard and made it far in evo
Great vid man! I'm getting the Mad Catz Soul Calbibre 5 Sould Edition Fight Stick for xmas, it'll be my first ever stick and I'm really looking forward to making the transition from controller to stick!
gotta say Max, watching your KI/MVC vids kinda made me feel I wanted to try beat em ups again as I was out of touch with them for a long time.i have a fighting stick 3 and whan I recent tried it out I found that the wave dash is much easier to pull off, however im still having trouble with x factor and the stick in general does feel klunky, gotta re-oil the gears to get back in gaming shape on this one.good video Max!:)
Everybody says the xbox controller is garbage for fighting games, but i don't get it. I play with a Rock Candy, and yeah, the D-pad sucks, but if you just use the analog stick it's perfectly serviceable.
Cory Andrews but the Analog stick is THE WORST way to get Precise Directionals too much room for error as oopposed to the buttons which are very on point
I understand the technical side of it, but I've never had any trouble with the analog stick. Despite the facts, the only time I ever have trouble is with "double input" supers, like in Street Fighter, because it's easy to accidentally input an EX DP. And that's the same whether my control scheme is digital or analog. I can't explain it, all I know is that (if only for me and a few others) analog works well enough.
Max, I've been on and off fighting games for a while because I keep having inconsistent results with an arcade stick. Do you think you could make a series of videos of how to learn and effectively USE an arcade stick? I think it'd be great for those of us (myself included) who are trying to switch or want to and have no idea where to begin. Keep up the great work!
I think this is a very fair assessment of personal preference and utilizing the ideal tools for your style. I must say that, personally, the drive to be better is there and so that's why I'm pushing myself to understand an arcade stick. Against the advice of picking up a cheapo on Amazon, I picked up 2 of these generic guys w/ the japanese styled balltop sticks w/ backwards compatible adapters, since I have a ton of retro fighters. (I'll include my meme-y collection pic in the comments.) I must say for getting the fundamentals down, it does take a bit of work, especially in the first couple weeks. The most I can tell you is you go from being responsive to being intuitive with your initiation of tactics. Sometimes I have to take that extra mili-second to focus on the joystick input so that I don't mess it up, even sometimes pulling it a little further back to overcompensate the input controls. I have had a little success in minor tourneys for having no prior arcade stick input, being a controller user my whole life, up until a few months ago. With anything else, it takes practice. Getting the basics of fighters down on a controller is essential before utilizing this tool. That is all this is. The reason the EVO fighters use these to their advantage is purely because they understand the game and adjust to a flat layout of inputs for easy access. The timing and the pacing is very much trial and error. Once you go through the grind, utilize and understand this tool to your advantage. The pacing isn't gonna go away, the grind isn't gonna go away, but I believe in the long run practice does make perfect and that's why I aspire to play with the big boys one day, for the pure thrill of the challenge.
Great discussion Max!!! I really hate when people say that Arcade Sticks automatically enhance the experience and that people hold themselves back by using controllers for fighters. Me, I'm really accustomed to the Sony Dualshock controller. Always have. I suck ass with arcade sticks. I just really feel that the controller suits me the best.
Max hit it spot on. Bought my Madcatz stick a few years back and being a gamepad user my entire life it was tough adjusting. However once I got used to it tons of combos and moves became more fluid. Even if your a casual fighting fan like myself its a fun investment and worth it once you get the hang of it.
When I first switched I found the buttons much easier to use but I used to always get the actual stick movements wrong. I'd often over extend on a QCF and end up jumping or something similar to that. I have to say though, while it took a little bit to fully adapt to using a stick, the pay-off is definitely worth it if you're willing to put in the time. It doesn't even need to be a really large amount of time, just try not to switch between pad and stick while learning, and I found it easier to do while playing in concentrated sessions rather than playing for an hour every day or two.
Thanks for the realistic perspective. Being completely fair, one of my main drives to obtain/try an arcade stick has to do with my 360 gamepad having a stick sensitivity that causes releasing it to lightly flick right. This fucks up a LOT of games, fighting games included in that mix.
The standard is Sanwa/Hori, both are japanese style, ball top in a square gate. There is no american stick, since Happ hasn done anything in awhile. The most memorable American stick was a perfect 360. The stick had a lot of resistance and allowed you to rotate 360s without any edges (+ no clicking!). I really wish they would make an updated version that would fit into a madcatz case.
I use a fight stick for fightcade because my adapter kept breaking for my pads. That being said, don't neglect pads if that's what you're most used to. There's amazing fightpads on amazon.
You can get decent sticks for less than 100$ on amazon. Hell the HORI sticks alone (V3 & the mini) are between 40 to 60$ & are more than decent starter sticks. Tho as of late mostly been using the SFxT controller fight pads.
Also Max you might want to mention there's like ALWAYS a promotion of some sort for sticks during majors. So those looking for sticks should really check out a stream and look out for those promos and offers.
I agree with you completely. What are your thoughts on percise input controllers? They worked for me and after hours of practice it helped immensely with the aspect of timing.
You can buy one of those iffy weird ones, a cheap 360 controller, and sanwa buttons and stick. Then you just use the case, and solder the buttons to each respective button on the controllers circuit board, and the stick to the d-pad.
I totally agree about the shoulder buttons on the left... I'm currently using a ps1 pad for everything (except MK1&2, I learned those with keyboard, and I couldn't play for shit with a pad). I got into SF4 this year, and while the ps1 pad is good as far as pads go, I still have the 3xP and 3xK buttons on the left, and I get severe pain in my left thumb from playing (I play mostly charge characters). Sometimes I have HUGE problems executing even the simplest of combos, especially if I have to keep charges and use the shoulder buttons on the left, and the trouble is multiplied whenever I have played a few games in a row and my thumb is in pain. Sometimes I get surprised when the combo that I'm trying actually comes out. My friend is about to get an arcade stick (possibly a Razer), and I'm going to try to learn it just for the sake of fighting games.
Right now I’m switching and getting used to my stick. Moving around is easier ( as in using the stick to do all the motions) . Buttons on the other hands are rough for me. I’m so used to using my controllers triggers and bumpers and my muscle memory has that.
If you've platued input-wise I would recommend switching to keyboard before stick. Really helped me with buffering/canceling in 3s and buffering dashes in MvC.
When I got my first arcade stick I would play shooters on a pad, and during loading screens I would practice the motions for moves on the stick. That's the biggest thing, learning how fireball and DP all over again.
The only reason I've ever considered getting an arcade stick over my scuf is the controller wear aspect. Ever since I've begun to play Blazblue, my control pad has been wearing out at a rapid pace.
I've played fighting games on the pad my whole life and just last week switched to stick. Let me tell you, I'm never looking back. I'm mashing less and doing moves and combos more consistently. The sensitivity of the stick and buttons gives me more confidence I'm doing it right. Amazon can sometimes be a good place to find a stick. They'll have a Madcatz or a Hori stick on sale for $100-130. I got my Madcatz SCV soul edition stick for $80 from Amazon.
Another huge benefit i found in street fighter when i changed to stick was making each hand have its own function. Left hand for the stick and right hand for the buttons, i would always find whenever i tried to do an EX move id fail because my hand doing the d pad motion is also pushing the button aswell, which would make me fail the move alot because i hadnt made the same motion as when im just try to do a normal special.
As a Person who played mained a controller in sf4( which I was pretty good with). Met a couple of dudes at work who also played, but with Arcade sticks. Needless to say I was taken by these beautiful pieces of hardware so I bought one. Played with it for awhile and it Completly changed the way I played my character. I learned techniques that I had failed to do on the controller. I actually was still way better with the controller and ended up going back to it. BUT From my time on the stick I learned On a deeper level the technical aspect of the game and it translated to my controller instantly. Sometimes a different approach will make you better :)
If you are looking to test out sticks and u don't want to dump the 150, or wait 2-3 months for it to drop to 100 on a holiday. You can buy a $50 stick, just make sure it is a hori or madcatz brand. Essentially you can upgrade parts in there to the same quality as $150 stick. The sanwa stick is $35-50 and buttons are $3-5 per. The case will be smaller than the $150 one.
I made the move from pad to stick a few years ago. There is an initial learning cliff but I feel that once you get past it, sticks are far more intuitive to play with. You will be worse at first and feel depressed that you wasted a ton of cash but persist with it and fighting games become a whole lot more fun. Just my opinion though.
For anyone broke and looking for a decent stick with not half bad stock parts, and is easy to mod. Check out the Qanba Q1. It's a little small but it's really easy to put sanwa/seimitsu buttons/stick in there. Also comes with all three gate styles.
A good stick that I own is the HORI UMvC3 edition stick I got it for like 140 or 150 on amazon. The problem is that you can't change the artstyle and instead is a sticker you peal out and if your careful enough it won't get get air bubbles or peel off. Everything is fine though top notch quality very strong and light with the best parts. But start button is placed right next to the other buttons but over time you get use to it
Thanks blindsyde!!! I was writing my comment while driving and forgot to put the price lol. Do you own a Q4? I use the Ice Blue Limited with an octagonal restrictor plate of course
I used the black Sega Arcade Stick back in the day for Mortal Kombat. I was a God in the Chop the Brick mini game. I just switched auto on and I chopped even diamonds with ease. 😑
This is very true. Arcade sticks feel so good for your fingers and feel so nolstalgic as well. Even though I grew up with an SNES controller it always hurts after an hour of playing because all you are using is your thumb and index finger. Kudos to those who can excel on a pad ^_^.
Personally, I am a major fan of the HORI Fighting Edge, the sharp airy motion from the buttons and stick, and the weight behind it, it feels more like a sword battle than an actual video game...great for getting that fighting spirit going!
I'm kinda surprised you didn't talk about the fightpads for the 360 and ps3 by madcatz. Those things are amazing as far as d-pads go. Was very pleased to find out they existed after trying and failing to play games with my original 360 controller. I also found they're far more comfy versus ps2/3 controllers as well as it's a flat d-pad that doesn't make your thumb sore after a while
The only reason I prefer arcade stick is that motions like 360 is a ton easier for me on that compared to keyboard and the buttons being in line helps my brain a ton unlike controllers
Also, I have lived using controllers (particularly PlayStation controllers) for years and years, and never thought about getting a stick until me and a friend went to a local arcade and played Tekken 5 and I surprisingly liked using the stick. Now I'm just trying to "re-learn" all of my old fighters with this new tool.
I recommend the Hori VX SA because its about $130 and it uses the same parts as a Mad Catz stick (Sanwa) and its lighter, which I prefer. It also has 2 handles on the sides so you can pick it up easily.
"You should know that a weapon doesn't make the man." - Trunks
Hi lythero :)
Alright, but how about a Guitar Hero controller? Would it make playing I-no from Guilty Gear easier?
Yes
There’s a guy that uses a steering wheel for Gulity Gear
Using your hands as an controller
Yes, you will become invincible. No matter the outcome of the match your opponent will never be able to be happy about the win
Cause the whole time you were using a guitar hero controller.
I think my main problem with a controller is how I can't guess where the directions are exactly. I press down, no, I'm pressing Diagonal Forward. I try to do a swipe from Down to the Right but no, what I did was Diagonal Back to Diagonal Forward Up.
One thing I liked about the GameCube control was how the joystick housing had grooves in an octagon which would guide it in perfect direction. The Xbox One control gives me that problem a lot so the fight stick may be a decent alternative.
+Jaziel Rivera
Yeah I used to do that. Now I have problems the likes of my fucking movement isn't right for some dipshit reason and (SF mostly fighter here) no DP and no fireball when you want it, shit even a hurricane kick, is like saying "here, you play SF without any specials".
Don't get me started on the parry on a controller. I still pull it off, but its abysmal. No matter how much you limit these problems (like the one you are saying) I find in the end that your really fall into new problems. PS controller was a little better for fighting games. But Xbox... Fuck! I am stuck with an Xbox 360 controller atm. Man, is that thing abysmal! (Whatever is left of it, my rage has both thumbsticks broken and a piece missing from behind... can you blame me? lol)
Used to kick ass on my PSone controls once I was used to them. It was perfect. Then I simply wanted to play SF3 which was only arcade at the time. Took a little learning. But once it was done, man did I realise how much better fighting sticks are.
So imagine now. I am an arcade stick lover, and I am stuck not only with a controller, but the worst one around, and not only the worst one around, but also a busted version of it >.<
The amount of control it takes that I don't break it to pieces completely comes from thinking I won't have anything to play with till I get my hands on a fightstick.
+Jaziel Rivera PS4 controllers are better. 360 and Xbox one Pads give me that problem a lot.
Mumble Beats Not gonna lie, I do prefer the placement of the left joystick on PS consoles.
+DCF - HazardReborn
"here, you play SF without any specials" - This.
I have no problem admitting that I am new to SF and that fighting games are not my strongest genre. But holy fucking balls, that quarter quarter kick for Cammy pisses me off to no end =.=
Chameleon EDM
Cassie Cage? Yeah MK timings never did it for me period in all their moves, except for MKX. I found that to be the best MK I played in a while. MK9 was also good. All that other garbage betwwen MKTrilogy and MK9 was completely over my head, lol.
SF5 atm at least finally has made moves more accessible. Wrote my initial comment before I got my hands on it.
Would you believe it? I execute moves at a better percentage now even with my busted controller! LOL.
So people are debating whether they prefer playing with a stick or a controller
I USE A FUCKING KEYBOARD!!!
Your comment, coupled with that display picture made me burst out laughing hahahah. You sir, deserve more likes!!
are you serious how are your fingers not broken lol
Ikr,i play USFIV with keyboard xD and well i tried arcade stick and i had that muscular memory,and i did the same i did in the keyboard and it was better(especially for guys like zangief)
darius ambrose aye, i play on a keyboard too :3
MultiFPSFan How the fuck are your hands not hurting? How the fuck can you do that at tournys?!
No joke today my friend sold me his official street fighter 4 20th anniversary fightstick for 20 bucks almost brand new
That's a real friend
***** street fighter is the shit, Im assuming you play tekken. Please go away.
***** street fighter 3 tho
***** better than 4
***** tru
When I play with a controller. For some reason, I find quarter circles easier to do to the right than to the left.
Me too bro, dont know why but it happen a lot.
+MetalSonicodraco7342 Because you guys are used to playing as Player 1. Start playing as Player 2 and it should clear up.
+S0m3 DUd3 666
Well after training a little bit its not that hard anymore, on a gamepad still is dificult for me but on Arcade Stick is not really that much now
Well, think about it this way. How many 2D platformers have you played where you have to run right? It's muscle memory.
Exactly the same here
Ordered a stick because I spent so much time on arcades. I don't mind using the controllers directional pad, but nothin beats the arcade stick.
+DiRT_SHARK
hells yeah.
+DiRT_SHARK Make sure to get a battop for it if you're used to American arcade cabinets. The little ball can be kinda crappy, especially if you have bigger hands.
The thing with a balltop is that you don't hold on to it. You float your hand around it. Then all you do is tap.by moving the wrist in the direction you want to go. You got to flow and not grip.
True. After all, the winner at EVO 2012 in SSFIV AE used a controller. Which is especially impressive seeing as how it's a 6 button fighter. Most fighting games nowadays use 4 buttons. SCV, TTT2, MK9, KOF13, etc. So, it's completely fine to use a controller if it's what you're used to. I personally use a controller for every fighting game I play. Plus you can play wherever on a moments notice without having to carry around a stick. The only downside is that the D-pad can wear down after a while.
holy.... hi there 7 years later humble beginnings ig
I've played on controllers my entire life, and switched to stick a year or two ago. For me, the difference is unbelievable. As a KoF player, I had a crazy hard time learning how to HD activate and charge (ie. Rising Tackle). That said, there are some motions that were hard to relearn for me, namely double quarter circles.
Nice
I find the arcade stick is much easier, at least for me. Not because of the button layout, but because of the large stick itself. It makes inputting the stick movement motions for some moves much easier. With a regular controller, I was finding it very difficult to get the more complex movement commands because there isn't as much control with a d pad or thumb stick as there is with an arcade stick. I was throwing hadokens when I was trying to pull off shoyrukens, fur example, with a regular controller. But with an Arcade stick, the inputs just feel a lot easier to pull off.
It's often to do with the gate on the stick. Xbox d-pads are goddamn awful, so you're better with the thumb stick, but even then it's a bit shit. Thumb sticks have a circular gate, making it too easy to accidentally input a quarter circle when trying to do a DP, but a stick with a square gate makes it physically impossible to do that. The stick's gate is important
Max you're the man. This has been on my heart for years. Thanks for the real talk.
arcade sticks just seem much more fun lol
They are! But much better if you swap out the joystick for a moded micro dildo!
maccyknife1 stfu weirdo
I like a stick with some gurth to it, that feels really heavy in your lap...
-Maximilian, 2013
I was given a arcade stick as a gift 2 months ago and I've been getting my butt kicked ever since. Been plenty of times I've wanted to throw the stick up against the wall and go back to controller but I've stuck with it (mostly due to the fact that it was a gift lol). I'm now beginning to get a bit used to it. Still trying to work on that muscle memory.
I highly recommend the MayFlash sticks. They're never more than 60 bucks and use real arcade buttons like Hori or MadCatz. The reason they're so cheap is because you're not paying extra for the plexiglass or wood furniture. Besides I can go to my buddy's wood shop in his house and make a wood case and just take the guts and the buttons out and place them in the new case. Or you can buy a board and some buttons and wood and make your own sticks if you have the tools to do so. The MAME community is really big on custom sticks.
Skankerman Studios I was thinking of getting the mayflash 300 with a octagonal gate which one do you have?
Same one but I just kept the square gate.
I just got used to it.
Skankerman Studios Ok thanks for the info definitely getting one now since you have nothing negative to say about it plus for sixty bucks it wont hurt me if i don't like it.
I'm definitely switching too arcade stick using a controller very long time.
Good luck man keep at it I did a few months ago trying to getting used to the arcade stick but it's so enjoyable to relearning everything. But I still feel a bit off with stick but I'm sure it will go away
im glad someone has been straight forward like you because there seems to be a lot of hype behind joysticks these days, and they are really not as cool as people think, don't get me wrong , I prefer joysticks over pad for fighting games but a joystick doesn't make you better ultimately what makes you better is your will power and willingness to learn and be patient, so yeah that's what I think.
I've always fought with d-pad never analog/arcade stick I've felt I have more control.
Inputs feel much more precise on a dpad, that's why I can't see myself using a stick.
Same here. I tried an arcade stick, and I can’t get an accurate input on the joystick
Watching this nearly a year later, and its a great video. I personally miss SNK's sticks (former AES owner), but that's definitely nostalgia talking!
Thanks for the Etsy Link dood. I do have an SF4 Fightstick,....but the templates look good. And Love your Real talk vids man
Picked up a fight stick after seeing this because I really wanna get better at fighting games (and I would say I am pretty good at them to begin with) And I got the Tekken 6 horiFight Stick for 360 at GameStop for 6 bucks! works like a charm!
One problem I have is that I use a regular controller (PS3) and the analog stick goes in every direction while a stick only goes in the necessary 8 directions. That's not the only reason I suck at fighting games though.
I hope you realize that sticks come in all ranges and sizes. You can always open up a fight stick and replace things as you please.
There's always different restrictor gates you can buy as well for your sticks. Some are round like traditional American "bat" sticks and some are octagonal. The ones found in must sticks including the MadCatz ones are usually square like the old Japanese style ones.
no, in fighting game they will restrict the motion to 8 directions in controllers. enable on screen key display and you'll see 8 directions.
Kubo Edgeworth use the dpad if your using a controller
Completely agree, Max. Playing on my Arcade Stick just makes the fighting game experience much more fun. When I first started, I was really awful...but rather than switching back, I kept at it, and now it feels as natural as it did back in the Arcade days. It makes me feel like I'm playing in the Arcade again! Since newer fighting games like Marvel Vs Capcom 3 and Street Fighter X Tekken never saw an Arcade release, this is pretty much the closest to an Arcade experience we'll have with them.
I really love the chopstick analogy max! Thats the perfect way to describe the pad/arcade stick discussion! Good job good job!
I too grew up with arcades... But I'm cheap lol.
I WAS going to get the collectors addition of injustice so i could get the fight stick... but once again, I was too cheap lol
I was going to do that too, personally, I just wanted the fight stick but I didn't have enough money to get it. So i'm still stuck with a xbox box controller which is relatively hard to use at fighting games.
I was cheap too, then I said scew it. The cheapest, but highly effective is the Madcatz TEs (tournament edition). They the standard several pros won touraments with them and force HORI to step thier game up. Ya should on ebay and get one. moding them and fixing are cheap too. TEs are the standards anything less equal defeat. Lol also use TH-cam to research at a Starbucks and relax (thier prices just went up so McDonald's coffee is too both has free wifi). lol
i actually ended up buying the Injustice Battle Edition Arcade Stick($40), its a pretty good beginner stick but its not for high level play. since then i bought the Madcatz Street Fighter x Tekken Tournament Edition PRO - Line($150) and the Madcatz Marvel vs Capcom 3 Tournament Edition Stick($120)
both are AMAZING. i stll prefer the controller for majority of fighting games but whenever i pop in usf4 or skullgirls i love these sticks.
Now I'm looking to buy the Madcatz Street Fighter 4 Tournament Stick
I dont even see how people like UMvC3 its pretty much "whoever gets hit first loses because the other guy will get you in an endless looping combo chain. GGWP"
Its fun to play for new people thats why.
Lol it's ok, you just need to get good to understand why it's fun.
***** im not dissing umvc 3 i love it. im insulting dark blurr
thats why MvsC2 is way better than umvsc3
Why'd you get hit scrub?
I'd like to say thanks max because I have always thought about buying a stick and hearing this made me want to go out and get a stick right away and I'm really excited to play using it
One reason to switch to stick is because you can customize it. You can change the way your joystick works. For example, you can change the spring to affect how fast the joystick goes back to a neutral position when you move it. There's also actuators, which affect how much you have to move the stick before the direction input is inputted. Then there's also microswitches which affect how much force it takes to actuate the things that make the directional inputs. And lastly, there's the ball top or bat top that you can put on top of your joystick.
And there's also some button customization as well, but I won't get into that unless someone asks. Anyways, fightsticks are awesome. I think that anyone can play better on a fightstick than a regular controller because you can customize your fightstick to be whatever fits you best. If you have the money and like fighting games, get a fightstick.
I use a keyboard for USF4 (PC) ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)
It works pretty damn well EXCEPT for 360 and 720 inputs. 360 inputs are still very well possible, but there's a lot of room for error. 720 inputs on the other hand are a bitch and a half.
+J Mann Oh GOD don't even tell me about it! I love using 789/456 as punch/kicks but movement get's a bit tricky XD
+J Mann Yeah, keyboards are just as accurate as a fight stick and more comfortable to use than trying to do quarter circles on a d-pad.
+NuclearUnicorn7 Keyboard? You have to be kidding lol
MetalSonicodraco7342 You've clearly never spent more than 5 minutes trying to use a keyboard with a fighting game.
+NuclearUnicorn7 Man it was a pain.
Like 1 year...1 Freaking year was suffering trying to play Garou, Mortal Kombat and among other like Street Fighter EX2 Plus on my emulator when some problems occurred in my family, I say goodbye to all my consoles and stick with Emulators in my PC, which is not a bad thing but emulation is not for me the major part of time.
I really downgraded playing with Shadow Geist (My Main in SF EX) and MK was aceptable but bad as well.
Keyboard is horrible for Fighting games, but other of my favorite like Gradius, Darius or many other Shoot Em ups and Arcade games like "Aliens (Konami)" are pretty well played on a Keyboard.
I prefer Arcade Sticks and some times, GamePads for those class of games because a Ball-Top arcade stick help me, a Keyboard...not really.
I think the only games I'd ever use a fight stick for are Capcom's versus series,tekken 3,and king of fighters. Why? Because these games I specifically remember and have physically played in an arcade. I loved every second of it and because arcades are pretty much the textbook definition of a sad,rotting corpse,I can forever relive the memories of playing those games in an arcade although still knowing I'll never be able to relive that social aspect of playing a random stranger.
Damn man, you brought me back right there.
djhero0071 I don't know what you mean about not being able to play a random stranger, but they sure as hell arent next to you.
Hey dude, the US has Round1 and Europe have a few import arcades with fighters.
Please create a video retrospective on the Killer Instinct franchise, you have great ephemera in your studio that more than a few of us would enjoy hearing the backstory on. Keep up the great work and supporting/creating content for the FGC in general
PERFECTLY summed up!
Please tell me I'm not the only that prefers a controller over a fight stick? DPs and Fireballs are to weird for me to remember correctly. A controller I can pull off large combos no problem but with a fight stick? Nah.
Your not the only one but I do use analog sticks over the d-pad.
I prefer controllers too...:3
The Ps4 contoller (and the Ps Vita) work surprisingly well. I almost exclusively use the D-Pads, and mainly play 4-button fighters, like BlazBlue, Tekken, or Injustice. Street Fighter's 6 Buttons will probably confuse my brain until the end of time though.
Well I use a GameCube remote. Why cause it's amazing and perfect
hell yea
While I was watching this video and went to amazon and trying to type Arcade St... then you said don't go on Amazon or Ebay. hehe perfect timing!
I'm glad I listened to this. Playing USF4 on the xbox 360, there are times I wondered if a arcade stick would help increase my skill. But realizing that it's just another option to playing a fighting game rather than a requirement to get better is a relief.
Thing that sucks with the pad is the dashing is hard.
true...I noticed it the first time back then with T6 online, when I fought people who dashed and sidestepped a lot faster and more frequently, I was like "how dafuq do they do that?"
Louis Brooks pads have the upper hand in mobility imo because of the short range of motion ur thumb needs to travel I can wave dash perfectly its just a matter of practice
Louis Brooks on analog it's annoying but the d pad it feels easier
What? It's way easier to use the dpad
I feel the opposite. It's super easy for me to dash with the pad and I struggle to do it consistently with a stick. I just find the quarter circle type motions to be easier with a stick.
I'm horrible with arcade sticks. I play my fighting games with controllers.
cool video Dood. I can't believe I haven't watched it until now.
Like Max I learnt arcade controls out of necessity. I played a bit of SF II as a kid on arcade and got the general idea but it wasn't until I got heavily into A3 on arcade that it really clicked. It's worth noting that I didn't have the home version of SF II as a kid. It wasn't until the early 2000s that I had any form of SF that I could play at home and practice on. And that is where it became clear to me how awkward and weird playing on pad was.
The thing people tend to forget about console controllers is they aren't primarily designed for fighting games. The NES and SNES controllers are primarily designed for platformers and other games where you hold down either left or right to move your character and one of the face buttons to jump. The SNES could support fighting games due to it's graphical capabilities and the number of buttons on the controller but the button layout wasn't well suited to this type of game and because the playstation copied a lot from the SNES the playstation controller had many of the same problems except that the additional shoulder buttons made it possible to have both heavy attacks on the right side of the controller. As for controllers with an analogue thumbstick they're designed primarily for 3D motion. Those analogue thumsticks are ok for moving a character on a 2D plane but it's hard to be precise with directional control.
Man, im new to fighting game and i gotta say, max you are the best.
The best MKX player in the world uses a standard game pad. SonicFox
+Big_Mike81 But I do prefer arcade sticks
+Big_Mike81 from what i've heard MK is arguably better on a controller. wouldn't know myself though
+Big_Mike81 Mortal Kombat has easy execution like back-forward, down-back, down-forward etc. Theres no circular motions and Z motions which is why a lot of players use the console's controller rather than spending like $100-200 on an arcade stick for just one game. However there's one character with tight execution and thats Liu Kang(Dragon's Fire). Hes on like another level.
+Big_Mike81 MKX is different. Quarter-circles for street fighter are nigh-on possible with a D-pad. Trust me, I have _tried_.
+Bennett Harnisch Actually they seems to be doable. In fact, one of the best Zangief player: SnakeEyes uses a gamepad.
Staying with D-PAd You dont need a $200 stick.
I'm getting mine for $150. It's an investment man, you gotta want it, you know?
EDIT: It was $130 on Amazon. Woo!
I've only ever used an Xbox analog stick for fighting games. I've never had a good enough d-pad
I can't play a game for 3 hours straight. I'm excited for SF5 and the PS4 controller has a really good D-Pad.
I got a Qanba q1 and modded it with Sanwa parts, it definitely works better for me.
overall costs about $120
Great for a first stick.
Jake Neville
I'm using a stick right now and it feels a thousand times better than playing with a pad. That's of course how I feel though because I know a very good pad warrior.
this guy gets into some good points , for all you people who are new to games like these or want to start using a joystick more or are just starting to use one , please listen to this vid it really does hit some really great points listen and it can only help.
Good shit Max. Really enjoy your real talk videos.
If you wanna get good with a stick, you still have to *stick* with it
booo
Aw, it's a pitty that you didn't include the comparison with people that play with keyboard (like me, but we must be like 3 or 4 lol) but what you shared was still useful. Thanks and good job ;)
***** keyboard only sucks (to me at least) when it comes to 360 motions, other than that yeah, waaaay more responsive than x360 garbage d-pad
*****
That's pretty much what I think. Using Zangi or Seth with keyboard is so complicated, but for charge characters it's extra comfortable.
I totally agree.
the only things I can't do on a controller are certain option selects/zangief maneuvers. I must say though... with certain characters those option selects are a MUST - if you want to play at the highest level.
I have felt the power of the stick just got mine today and just after a few hours of getting used to the layout i'm improving rapidly. And now I frown at the thought of ever going back to controller where you can mash out combos on the control pad the stick forces you to be correct in your motions and button inputs which while it wont eliminate errors it greatly reduces them because you actually have to think analytically vs mushing the dpad in hopes to get a move out i am forever changed praises be unto Max!
I've actually gotten better using a freaking 360 controller. imagine what would happen if i used a real controller lol
HORI Real Arcade Pro 4 Kai would this be a good stick for a beginner?
JSCOTT033 those are good sticks the hori rap series, my brother has one in Japan he uses when we play fighting games on PS3, here in Canada I have a madcatz te, if you're a beginner there is a hori smaller stick for $40-50 the buttons and jfl are not the higher grade but it is low risk and decent stick usually recommended for new stick players or for those that want a small stick. Don't buy the small madcatz alpha or the street fighter 5 pads from madcatz, those are junk, only the te line from madcatz are worth investing in but they are steep. $240-$330 in Canada, my PS3 te stick is supported in sfv otherwise I'd get a hori rap 4, they even have a version with like 30% silenced buttons.
Depends on you maybe play with a friends stick a bit (hardeeharharhar) to see if you like the feel versus pad, it takes a while to get good with one. It's not an instant advantage like max says, street fighter games I want a stick but most others I like using pad fine. Easier to dash etc in pad lower range of motion, on stick more reliable buttons /combos with practice.
Good luck but hori is a safe bet, my brother likes his and there are some nice stuff from razer and others, but budget wise hori seems to be the only decent option. One advantage of going with a rap or te is they can be resold easily because of the quality and reputation, if you're not interested in modding you can save some money with the non mod focused versions. Good luck.
thanks for the input bro i will take your advice.
If you play on ps4/ps3 add me if you like happy to play friendly games. "Skeetlejuice" is my psn, just waiting for tekken 7 next. Cheers :)
Not sure about that. In canada i have less options for controllers etc without importing. Id try and find some forum posts for that stick being used for games you will play. The hori mini for $35-50 is likely the lowest risk though but its not as good buttons /jfl as rap etc. But my advise is to spend $50 or less or get a solid stick maybe some place near you sells them or you can go to a fightinh game event and ask people about theirs. I spent $100 cad on the old street fighter 4 madcatz stick it was trash and gamespot had no return bought a te off Amazon a few months later. Hori seems to be the value brand. If you can return the stick mentioned then maybe try it, but sticks and headphones are coupled with buyers remorse these days. Merry Christmas / happy holidays.
I just looked it up and found some redit comments on it. I think it's a wash versus a sale on a rap to be honest. This requires a ds4 which puts me off, and the explicitly say sanwa button size. Maybe at $50-60usd but no more and id be worried about native ps4 support or not like my ps3 te working with sf5 via ds4 and legacy support. Now any other fighting game i can expect zero support like mkx etc. Tekken i will play pad but that might get legacy. Seems a modable stick the mayfair again I'd see how your hands feel on it if you can. If you are talking no native ps4 support have to mod right away and $100+ its a bad deal. These things are relative. The madcatz stick i first bought i could have put sanwa stuff in and many did. The reason i didn't was the feel of the case and size. I'd buy used maybe as well Kijiji etc might offer an option. Anyways hopefully things to help decide. See what $50-60 will get thats a ds4 price or just wishlist a few and wait for a deal on a sure thing.
I get ya. At first I thought you didn't know what you were talking about. Then I remembered that theory, and figured out you were talking about something most people don't know about. You were just on another level lol. As for the term, I guess "muscle memory" rolls off the tongue better than "reflexive memory".
The Cosmicscout you perfected on the Online Warrior Vid got he's Revenge here
SonicFox using a controller
MAVSOWN yep this is an old video and all those old fashioned fighting game myths no longer apply
Steve Fox lol is that an Aris quote?
keyboard tho?
supersonicstep worse but quickier them all excepto for the facf that u might "Ghost"
depends on your keyboards and Bindings
the most successful binding is actually
wasd
890
uio
even on old hid keyboards the ghosting was at a minimum
I use keyboard for PC fighting games and I love it. I use a G.SKILL KM780 with Cherry MX Brown switches and I my layout for Street Fighter V on is WASD for movement and on the numpad 4,5,6 for punches and 1,2,3 for kicks. The only thing that sucks is that 360 motions are literally impossible to do unless you change jump to the space bar. Other than that though quarter circles, half circles, and DP motions can be done effortlessly. People mainly hate on keyboard because they've either never used it or they used the shitty $15 membrane keyboard that came with their computers or they even used their even shittier laptop keyboard. You get what you pay for with fight sticks and controller, and the same goes for keyboards. Keyboard would actually be better for PC fighting game players as well since you can get a high quality Cherry MX mechanical keyboard for $70 that will last you years, while the cheaper decent fightsticks go for $90 starting with the Qanba Q1
supersonicstep Thats actually the key bindings but i sort of do it reversed.
supersonicstep if u can play on keyboard, it'll be far more superior. everything is a tap, not a circle motion. there was this one guy in sf4 who played with keyboard and made it far in evo
Great vid man! I'm getting the Mad Catz Soul Calbibre 5 Sould Edition Fight Stick for xmas, it'll be my first ever stick and I'm really looking forward to making the transition from controller to stick!
gotta say Max, watching your KI/MVC vids kinda made me feel I wanted to try beat em ups again as I was out of touch with them for a long time.i have a fighting stick 3 and whan I recent tried it out I found that the wave dash is much easier to pull off, however im still having trouble with x factor and the stick in general does feel klunky, gotta re-oil the gears to get back in gaming shape on this one.good video Max!:)
Everybody says the xbox controller is garbage for fighting games, but i don't get it. I play with a Rock Candy, and yeah, the D-pad sucks, but if you just use the analog stick it's perfectly serviceable.
Yay. We analog stick members need to stay together,
Cory Andrews but the Analog stick is THE WORST way to get Precise Directionals too much room for error as oopposed to the buttons which are very on point
I understand the technical side of it, but I've never had any trouble with the analog stick. Despite the facts, the only time I ever have trouble is with "double input" supers, like in Street Fighter, because it's easy to accidentally input an EX DP. And that's the same whether my control scheme is digital or analog. I can't explain it, all I know is that (if only for me and a few others) analog works well enough.
The only trouble I have are charge characters. Circles/half circles/quarter circles are easy on analog stick.
Some things are just easier with the buttons instead of motions for some
Max, I've been on and off fighting games for a while because I keep having inconsistent results with an arcade stick. Do you think you could make a series of videos of how to learn and effectively USE an arcade stick? I think it'd be great for those of us (myself included) who are trying to switch or want to and have no idea where to begin. Keep up the great work!
I think this is a very fair assessment of personal preference and utilizing the ideal tools for your style. I must say that, personally, the drive to be better is there and so that's why I'm pushing myself to understand an arcade stick. Against the advice of picking up a cheapo on Amazon, I picked up 2 of these generic guys w/ the japanese styled balltop sticks w/ backwards compatible adapters, since I have a ton of retro fighters. (I'll include my meme-y collection pic in the comments.)
I must say for getting the fundamentals down, it does take a bit of work, especially in the first couple weeks. The most I can tell you is you go from being responsive to being intuitive with your initiation of tactics. Sometimes I have to take that extra mili-second to focus on the joystick input so that I don't mess it up, even sometimes pulling it a little further back to overcompensate the input controls.
I have had a little success in minor tourneys for having no prior arcade stick input, being a controller user my whole life, up until a few months ago. With anything else, it takes practice. Getting the basics of fighters down on a controller is essential before utilizing this tool. That is all this is. The reason the EVO fighters use these to their advantage is purely because they understand the game and adjust to a flat layout of inputs for easy access. The timing and the pacing is very much trial and error. Once you go through the grind, utilize and understand this tool to your advantage.
The pacing isn't gonna go away, the grind isn't gonna go away, but I believe in the long run practice does make perfect and that's why I aspire to play with the big boys one day, for the pure thrill of the challenge.
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Great discussion Max!!! I really hate when people say that Arcade Sticks automatically enhance the experience and that people hold themselves back by using controllers for fighters. Me, I'm really accustomed to the Sony Dualshock controller. Always have. I suck ass with arcade sticks. I just really feel that the controller suits me the best.
Max hit it spot on. Bought my Madcatz stick a few years back and being a gamepad user my entire life it was tough adjusting. However once I got used to it tons of combos and moves became more fluid. Even if your a casual fighting fan like myself its a fun investment and worth it once you get the hang of it.
When I first switched I found the buttons much easier to use but I used to always get the actual stick movements wrong. I'd often over extend on a QCF and end up jumping or something similar to that. I have to say though, while it took a little bit to fully adapt to using a stick, the pay-off is definitely worth it if you're willing to put in the time. It doesn't even need to be a really large amount of time, just try not to switch between pad and stick while learning, and I found it easier to do while playing in concentrated sessions rather than playing for an hour every day or two.
I switched to stick during the Dreamcast's heyday. The discomfort of the DC pad forced me into stick and I never went back to a pad since then.
Same here. Just gotta replace the square gate and good to go.
Thanks for the realistic perspective.
Being completely fair, one of my main drives to obtain/try an arcade stick has to do with my 360 gamepad having a stick sensitivity that causes releasing it to lightly flick right. This fucks up a LOT of games, fighting games included in that mix.
The standard is Sanwa/Hori, both are japanese style, ball top in a square gate. There is no american stick, since Happ hasn done anything in awhile. The most memorable American stick was a perfect 360. The stick had a lot of resistance and allowed you to rotate 360s without any edges (+ no clicking!). I really wish they would make an updated version that would fit into a madcatz case.
It's like a Sword; A Sword is nothing without the Warrior who wields it.
I use a fight stick for fightcade because my adapter kept breaking for my pads. That being said, don't neglect pads if that's what you're most used to. There's amazing fightpads on amazon.
I agree. Stick took me 1-2 months to get used to but i like it more.
You can get decent sticks for less than 100$ on amazon. Hell the HORI sticks alone (V3 & the mini) are between 40 to 60$ & are more than decent starter sticks. Tho as of late mostly been using the SFxT controller fight pads.
for SNES fighters, I use the SNES Advantage. I didnt know it existed either until a month ago when i saw it at a flea market for 15 bucks.
Also Max you might want to mention there's like ALWAYS a promotion of some sort for sticks during majors. So those looking for sticks should really check out a stream and look out for those promos and offers.
I agree with you completely. What are your thoughts on percise input controllers? They worked for me and after hours of practice it helped immensely with the aspect of timing.
You can buy one of those iffy weird ones, a cheap 360 controller, and sanwa buttons and stick. Then you just use the case, and solder the buttons to each respective button on the controllers circuit board, and the stick to the d-pad.
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Max saying "DING!" and hyper start-up sound synchronize. Clever editing, or complete accident? Either way, awesome!
start button in the front????? awww man. it's not a deal breaker for me but that's something i didnt know. thank you for the reply!
I totally agree about the shoulder buttons on the left... I'm currently using a ps1 pad for everything (except MK1&2, I learned those with keyboard, and I couldn't play for shit with a pad). I got into SF4 this year, and while the ps1 pad is good as far as pads go, I still have the 3xP and 3xK buttons on the left, and I get severe pain in my left thumb from playing (I play mostly charge characters). Sometimes I have HUGE problems executing even the simplest of combos, especially if I have to keep charges and use the shoulder buttons on the left, and the trouble is multiplied whenever I have played a few games in a row and my thumb is in pain. Sometimes I get surprised when the combo that I'm trying actually comes out. My friend is about to get an arcade stick (possibly a Razer), and I'm going to try to learn it just for the sake of fighting games.
Right now I’m switching and getting used to my stick. Moving around is easier ( as in using the stick to do all the motions) .
Buttons on the other hands are rough for me. I’m so used to using my controllers triggers and bumpers and my muscle memory has that.
If you've platued input-wise I would recommend switching to keyboard before stick. Really helped me with buffering/canceling in 3s and buffering dashes in MvC.
When I got my first arcade stick I would play shooters on a pad, and during loading screens I would practice the motions for moves on the stick. That's the biggest thing, learning how fireball and DP all over again.
The only reason I've ever considered getting an arcade stick over my scuf is the controller wear aspect. Ever since I've begun to play Blazblue, my control pad has been wearing out at a rapid pace.
I've played fighting games on the pad my whole life and just last week switched to stick. Let me tell you, I'm never looking back. I'm mashing less and doing moves and combos more consistently. The sensitivity of the stick and buttons gives me more confidence I'm doing it right. Amazon can sometimes be a good place to find a stick. They'll have a Madcatz or a Hori stick on sale for $100-130. I got my Madcatz SCV soul edition stick for $80 from Amazon.
Another huge benefit i found in street fighter when i changed to stick was making each hand have its own function.
Left hand for the stick and right hand for the buttons, i would always find whenever i tried to do an EX move id fail because my hand doing the d pad motion is also pushing the button aswell, which would make me fail the move alot because i hadnt made the same motion as when im just try to do a normal special.
As a Person who played mained a controller in sf4( which I was pretty good with). Met a couple of dudes at work who also played, but with Arcade sticks. Needless to say I was taken by these beautiful pieces of hardware so I bought one. Played with it for awhile and it Completly changed the way I played my character. I learned techniques that I had failed to do on the controller. I actually was still way better with the controller and ended up going back to it. BUT From my time on the stick I learned On a deeper level the technical aspect of the game and it translated to my controller instantly. Sometimes a different approach will make you better :)
If you are looking to test out sticks and u don't want to dump the 150, or wait 2-3 months for it to drop to 100 on a holiday. You can buy a $50 stick, just make sure it is a hori or madcatz brand. Essentially you can upgrade parts in there to the same quality as $150 stick. The sanwa stick is $35-50 and buttons are $3-5 per. The case will be smaller than the $150 one.
I made the move from pad to stick a few years ago. There is an initial learning cliff but I feel that once you get past it, sticks are far more intuitive to play with. You will be worse at first and feel depressed that you wasted a ton of cash but persist with it and fighting games become a whole lot more fun. Just my opinion though.
My personal stick that I have is an MLG Tournament Edition Fightstick and I love it. Heavy, sensitive, looks pretty cool.
For anyone broke and looking for a decent stick with not half bad stock parts, and is easy to mod. Check out the Qanba Q1. It's a little small but it's really easy to put sanwa/seimitsu buttons/stick in there. Also comes with all three gate styles.
A good stick that I own is the HORI UMvC3 edition stick I got it for like 140 or 150 on amazon. The problem is that you can't change the artstyle and instead is a sticker you peal out and if your careful enough it won't get get air bubbles or peel off. Everything is fine though top notch quality very strong and light with the best parts. But start button is placed right next to the other buttons but over time you get use to it
Sometimes i use both the analog and the Dpad.Dpad for dashing analog for others
Thanks blindsyde!!! I was writing my comment while driving and forgot to put the price lol. Do you own a Q4? I use the Ice Blue Limited with an octagonal restrictor plate of course
I used the black Sega Arcade Stick back in the day for Mortal Kombat. I was a God in the Chop the Brick mini game. I just switched auto on and I chopped even diamonds with ease. 😑
This is very true. Arcade sticks feel so good for your fingers and feel so nolstalgic as well. Even though I grew up with an SNES controller it always hurts after an hour of playing because all you are using is your thumb and index finger. Kudos to those who can excel on a pad ^_^.
Personally, I am a major fan of the HORI Fighting Edge, the sharp airy motion from the buttons and stick, and the weight behind it, it feels more like a sword battle than an actual video game...great for getting that fighting spirit going!
took the words right outta my mouth lol
I'm kinda surprised you didn't talk about the fightpads for the 360 and ps3 by madcatz. Those things are amazing as far as d-pads go. Was very pleased to find out they existed after trying and failing to play games with my original 360 controller.
I also found they're far more comfy versus ps2/3 controllers as well as it's a flat d-pad that doesn't make your thumb sore after a while
The only reason I prefer arcade stick is that motions like 360 is a ton easier for me on that compared to keyboard and the buttons being in line helps my brain a ton unlike controllers
Also, I have lived using controllers (particularly PlayStation controllers) for years and years, and never thought about getting a stick until me and a friend went to a local arcade and played Tekken 5 and I surprisingly liked using the stick. Now I'm just trying to "re-learn" all of my old fighters with this new tool.
I got a te with that new crown stick..a must buy for any one who likes the circle gate!
I recommend the Hori VX SA because its about $130 and it uses the same parts as a Mad Catz stick (Sanwa) and its lighter, which I prefer. It also has 2 handles on the sides so you can pick it up easily.