I bought the QS138 kit with the 60 amp hour battery from Electro & Co. I put it in my CRF250L frame and the bike comes in at 305 lbs with wind shield , hand guards and crash bars, ( I;m 75 and I need a bit more protection) . The bikes street legal, but I still ride off road on week ends. This bike has extended my riding life and is soooo smooth. I really like being able to hear the birds on slower trail rides. I also like the power delivery. It' way easier to ride than the old CRF 250 L. I wish they had the 75 amp hour battery when I bought the kit, but I guess I'll wait until they come out with a 120 amp battery that's the same size as mine. It may be awhile. Really enjoyed the comparison, mines no Yamaha, but it really makes me smile. Aloha Pat
Dude you’re already winning. You still have legit power and Hondas are dope. How long did it take to mod? I bet it’s WAY smoother than 4stroke? I’ve been considering on my YZ-125
Another great video, Tucker. I would love to see a range comparison between the Varg and EMX. I currently have a Varg and use it for hard enduro and single track. I love the idea of the EMX for its lighter weight but even with a swappable battery my rides don't often loop back to the truck. So if the range was comparable between the two, I'd think hard about finding a YZ rolling chassis. Looking forward to a range comparison particularly in mountain single track. I can get 40 miles comfortably on my Varg starting the ride at about 100% and ending at 10%. Since my weight and riding style are not the same as yours Tucker, I'd like to see that comparison with you on both bikes hitting single track. Could be very eye opening for me. Thanks again for all the great content.
I would love to see your Varg when you ride Hard Enduro. I think Hard Enduro would kill the Varg. The Varg has virtually no battery protection in the front and I want to see how you ride it up big tree trunks, ride rocky fields, ravines, ... The YZ EMX is the best for me because it has a full Enduro frame with perfect protection for the engine and battery. The advantage is that other smaller 72V batteries can also be used, e.g. from Talaria, Surron, .... which also fits in the frame. For MX the Varg is well built, but for hard Enduro it's a bad concept = bad frame and protection
@@JaneKLX agreed the protection is lacking. In my experience the bike is phenomenal in hard enduro. But it's my only electric bike. I have seen guys with some sort of plastic cover over the battery to protect it. But so far it's not been an issue for me. Finding other protection bits has been a challenge. But they are out there.
Yes please on range comparison. For enduro and trail riding, range is a heavily weighted deciding factor. That spec should be in all electric dirtbike comparisons. It doesn't matter how great a bike handles and how light it is if it won't get you around a 30 mile mountain loop. Range adds cost and weight in the form of larger battery capacity, but I'm more than willing to pay the price (in dollars and weight) for the way I use my electric dirtbikes (mountain single track, forest service roads, etc.)
Thank you! Yes, we agree and also mentioned it earlier but to make sure the comment is seen: We only had 1 day where all of the bikes were in the same place and we were unable to do a proper range test during this shoot. There is a lot that happens behind the scenes on these video shoots that viewers don't see in the final video but there were too many variables to get accurate range numbers (bikes never being truly fully charged, constantly getting recharged at different times, different riders hopping on for quick laps, recharging again). That being said, we will be doing a range test soon with the 2 bikes we find most interesting: The Stark and YZ-EMX.
The only issue I have is Alta Redshift. Buying that one, if I ever consider, is like being reminded of Harley's crime. They foxtrot the whole ordeal by letting Alta starved to death, then tried to acquire them with a banana.
Fortunately, it's getting better with every update. A lot of the phone issues Tucker mentioned were real, but have been resolved. The issue with the owner having to sign back into your account after an update (and unable to do so if you were someplace without cellular signal) has been resolved and is not longer happening. Everything seems to be getting the bugs worked out and fewer failures with not only app and phone, but with the early battery and motors. Risk of early adopters and first year run. This second gen seems fairly ironed out. By the time they sell off this inventory and do another batch, I'd expect it to be pretty dialed in.
Great job guys. Comparison videos are where the most learning happens. I missed knowing what the actual weight with a full tank of electrons were for each bike and also wondered how much an original 250 YZF weighs compared to the Electro conversion. Would have been awesome to have the YZ gasser in the ride comparison too but that might be another video. Looking forward to my Dust Moto next year which might be more of a midsize bike with target weight of 200 lbs but track capable too. Thanks again for focusing on the electrics.
I think the big thing is charge time. You can bring the Stark to a track and charge between rides. The YZ you can swap batteries, but buying a second battery is $$$. I am half way thru a YZF Electric Build. Coming from a KTM Freeride I cant wait for the better suspension.
I have an E&C EMX YZ based on a 2019 YZ250F. Even with new lower price of the Varg, there are some important advantages of the YZ-EMX. First on my list is that my YZ came with CA registration and red sticker. You cannot get that for a Varg and that limits where you can ride. In 2025, my red sticker will automatically change to a green sticker and allow year round riding anywhere I want. Can’t do that (yet) on a Varg. Next up, is that I can fix or replace any component on my YZ. Motor, controller, suspension, etc. are all readily available parts and easily serviced. Also, not cheap, but there are multiple battery replacement options for the YZ and if I wanted to, I could get spare battery to swap put. As is, I got the 75 ah battery and range is not an issue for me. Lastly, there is that phone thing with the Varg. Not a fan of that either. I do hope E&C can sort out issues with the TruMoto Zapper, because that will take my YZ to a whole new level of performance. I also want to upgrade the motor to the new upgraded QS138 70 V3 with E&C rebuilt and hoping E&C comes out with an improved version of the Surron throttle, but that is for another day. Varg is super nice, but I think the YZ-EMX is my preference.
At the current sale price it seems like the the Varg is a the obvious choice. With the Varg at MSRP the YZ-E deserves a hard look provided you're open to a bit of a project. I was intrigued by the Arctic Leopard until I saw one in person. The quality is simply not there for the money. Ultra Bee quality is significantly better. Stark Varg quality is the best in the business. The YZ-E advantages are parts availability and likely easier DIY repairs down the road along with the slightly lower weight. I still don't think it's worth doing with the current Varg pricing. Varg also has a two year warranty that the company has been very good about.
If you do it yourself you can convert way cheaper. My 2020 CRF build all in with a 30 hour roller is just under $4k. The fab work is honestly pretty easy.
their $3200 60AH at 76V is still only 4.5kwh, quite a bit less than the Stark’s 6.5 when range is the limiting factor for this market. Maybe it’s the even smaller 48AH that you were thinking about being $2k?
@davidawaters yeah I agree which is why I didn't even bother to reply. I ride trails. I need the biggest battery i can get. Absolutely zero chance I could build anything even remotely useful for 4k.
I have a good news for you guys, we can sell QS138 v3 motor for Yamaha conversion just for 499euro ( 549 usd), And if you need battery we have 3.8kwh 72v battery capable of 20kw power, just for 1699 euro /1800 usd, controller that we have with color display cost 499 euro / 549 usd.. so overall it's about 2900 usd or 3200 with FedEx shipping!
Great video guys! I was hoping for some mention of the DustMoto Hightail I reserved yesterday. I know it's a bit smaller, but that can be an advantage too. I'm looking forward to THAT comparison for sure. When it comes time to put the real money into the Hightail, I will surely take a good look at the E&C conversion options, thanks to this video.
I left my first comment before the video was over. That's not bad for the conversion kit for the YZ.. if you already have the rolling chassis. That's not a deal that's a steal. Just say 8K I don't think that's bad 💚👍🏼👍🏼👍🏼
You can set the varg phone to auto-update the system and apps. It might help your issues. Also, it's an old version of Android so rebooting often would probably help.
If it hasn't be said you can ride the varg without the phone. Just set map one to the hp you want and set the other 5 to the minimum. That way you can instantly feel your in the wrong map without needing the phone as a display. Doesn't stop the updates and updated maps when you do eventually dock the phone but does allow you to disconnect from the tech when you are riding.
The result i would expect. The Alta MXR is still a great bike, and an absolutely bargain value if you can get one for less than 7k. The Varg is on a planet of its own though! Swappable battery isn't a deal breaker for me as I'm typically tired before the bike is spent. If Varg had a little faster charging it would be even better. Kudos to Electro and Co for offering a competitive option that slots between!
Blown out yzf motors are about to get trashed and replaced. Yamaha needs to partner with them and if not. Predicting that Yamaha will have a hard time selling new yzf bikes. Especially if riders can just swap their existing motor and get more use out of the chassis.
Haven't seen a scale number but they are claiming 242 for the kit YZ so figure 245 or about 20 lbs less than a Varg. Believe you can feel 5 lbs difference so that is a big difference.
Hello ECR, I hope you'll be able to get your hands on the new KTM Freeride E and its sister bike Husqvarna Pioneer. It will be interesting to see if they have different characters while sharing the same platform. Keep up the great work!
It be fun if you guys would do a review on the Lizcat conversion kit for the Yz 250 or 450. It is a bit pricy tho, but it looks really good once converted.
I don't have any issues with the phone/app on mine. I've had it for over a year, and at one point it lost connectivity with the bike after an update, but support sorted that one out quickly
Just how many different times did they tell us the Yamaha EMX is lighter , and that the Stark Varg is heavier … Yet never specifying the actual difference with a number. WTF ?
And, they don't talk about one of the most important metrics for trail riders; range. A bigger battery is more expensive and weighs more. I don't care how light a bike is. If it can't even do a 20 to 30 miles loop, it's worthless to me. I'm doing 36 mile recreational rides (single track and 50" ATV trails) with my Varg and ending the day with 30% battery. Love not having to drain it to 5% to go 25 - 30 miles like my previous electric dirtbikes.
YZ-EMX = 242 lbs Stark Varg = 260 lbs in its lightest trim We did not have time to do a full range comparison. But I have a YZ-F conversion with a 72v 51ah battery (as opposed to the 76v 75ah battery on the YZ-EMX that we tested). Mine uses the Votol EM260 controller while the YZ-EMX uses the newer EM260S. My bike is pretty light weight at 220 lbs. In the lowest map, which is 150a, I get about 20-25 miles of range depending on terrain. So considering the slightly higher voltage of the YZ-EMX and much higher AH, I would estimate that the bike should be able to get 30-35 miles of range on the trail. Maybe even 40 in the right conditions.
If so, it will be a very complex concept with water cooling, ... The YZ EMX is a simple and smart concept where the motor costs 500-700 dollars. This machine is so simple, it couldn't be simpler. The purchase price is not important to me. More importantly, how much does the material cost for service and maintenance, how much does another set of plastics cost. How much does a graphics kit cost? This is on the YZ EMX side. I will buy everything for it and everywhere very cheaply, I will do the service myself at home. But Varg, Alta, ... ???? The new electric factory Honda, Yamaha, KTM, .... will be very expensive for everything and for the hobbyist it will all be very expensive.
I would go for the Stark Varg and I might even just get the 60hp variant since I have seen a lot of reviews where they say that 80hp is basically too much for any situation i.e. unnecessary and more of a flex than anything else.
There aren't any big problems, it's the frequent small hiccups that are frustrating: sometimes the bluetooth loses the bike as a saved profile, sometimes the app freezes, sometimes it doesn't record rides, sometimes it looses the map presets, sometimes the phone just overheats. The problem is a low end phone combined with a not very good optimized app. I have a stark too, and i got it more than an year ago. Fortunately the app can be improved
Mine flies out after occasional big hits. Even after double checking the mount it doesn’t make a difference. Leads me to back tracking 20-30 minutes each time to hunt down where it landed on the trail
Phone works fine on my Varg. You don't even really need it. It operates fine without but you don't have you battery level info. Also the weight difference over the YZ-E is simply battery size. Why no range test? The giant battery in the Varg is barely adequate for any off road riding.
Reposting this: We only had 1 day where all of the bikes were in the same place and we were unable to do a proper range test during this shoot. There is a lot that happens behind the scenes on these video shoots that viewers don't see in the final video but there were too many variables to get accurate range numbers (bikes never being truly fully charged, constantly getting recharged at different times, different riders hopping on for quick laps, recharging again). That being said, we will be doing a range test soon with the 2 bikes we find most interesting: The Stark and YZ-EMX.
The Alta has a parts issue or at least it will have. It had a low production volume and current owners are hording parts. Varg phone; I agree. You don't need a ride show stopper like a flakey phone.
@775Garage yes. 5 hours in extreme use, and over 60 miles in full throttle use. Was funny to see arctic leopard towing stark varg and honda crf250 from the desert. Both at the same time
how can you argue with the Yamaha platform... doesn't get any better. the fact the varg has 80 hp is kind of mute, no one can handle that kind of power in moto or off road conditions anyway... waste of time, along with the vargs other issues, the stupid smart phone, the heavy unchangeable battery, the useless charger in the stand set up... the Yamaha all day every day, until Hondas e bike comes out anyway...
Reposting this: We only had 1 day where all of the bikes were in the same place and we were unable to do a proper range test during this shoot. There is a lot that happens behind the scenes on these video shoots that viewers don't see in the final video but there were too many variables to get accurate range numbers (bikes never being truly fully charged, constantly getting recharged at different times, different riders hopping on for quick laps, recharging again). That being said, we will be doing a range test soon with the 2 bikes we find most interesting: The Stark and YZ-EMX.
It was great to see a shootout in NorCal at Riverfront MX and Georgetown OHV! I really wish the range issue could be addressed sooner than later so I can ride an eMoto on longer rides or days at the track. Until that happens, the ICE bikes will have a place in the garage. For me, the sweet spot would be, at least, 50 miles of range at a weight of 230-235. In short, can't wait until eMotos can go head-to-head with a competition ICE bike. The Varg comes close and I really like it but it's not always practical to charge at the track or trail and the range is too limiting for all-day rides.
50 miles @ 230 lbs. I'm trying to find one that'll go 35 miles ridden aggressively. 35 to 50 will be a H-U-G-E (multi-year decades?, orders of magnitude) technological step. Rapidly improving battery technology is the biggest lie of the past 50 years. Maybe?? your grandson will have that bike, but it won't be in our lifetime.
@@Mauipat I saw a video of someone with a 12Kw Ultra Bee with a 5.5Kwh battery barely make 35 miles in a not particularly hilly race. What are your bike's Kw & Kwh, & are you talking 45 - 50 miles in a race ridden by an expert level rider ? At 230 lbs you're back to riding 300 sized bikes & I 've done that & not interested in a 38" seat height for technical 15 -35mph woods riding. I want something about the size of an Ultra Bee (36" seat height/ 180 lbs) with 15 - 20Kw that can be raced 35 miles.
400 Hours OnnThat Top End🤣😂🤣 The Alta got so much hate. When it first come out. And they went out of business that was a bummer. They were talking about you can't get parts. I'm not sure if there's aftermarket. If somebody was starting out I don't think you could go wrong with any of these. The Stark definitely got the hype. Over 80 HP that's a beast. And if you was going to do a electrical conversion what's that about 12K 10K.. I'm just guessing because I don't know.. these are pretty damn cool boss man 👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻💚👍🏼👍🏼👍🏼😎👊🏻💨💥🤙🏻🤙🏻
I won't touch anything Electro & Co sells they burned me with their EMXron kit. What about the Storm Bee? It'a fullsized and has swappable battery. There is also the Zero FX (with the chain conversion). I own a Redshift SM and I've ridden a Varg and Redshift EX and they seem very similar to me. But I didn't have a lot of time with them and not back to back.
I had opposite experience. I bought their EMX kit and had small issue, they made it right and sent me new parts for free. Would definitely deal with them again. I'm looking for another roller to make 2nd EMX right now. I also have stark and the Yamaha EMX feels so much better on track and trail. Stark is fun to turn way up on power but don't really need it.
@@jimji2774 Looks pretty competitive to me. A Storm Bee almost won Virginia City Grand Prix electric class this year also, if it had a 2nd battery it would have dominated, which is another advantage of the Storm is it has swappable battery packs. th-cam.com/users/shortsHMco7WFLBLw?si=9vgA-VAUmBAs0jh_
Great question and we considered mentioning this in the video but the Surron Storm Bee and the KTM Freeride are close but just not up to the task of real MX riding (without modification) - we had to test bikes that could handle it in stock form.
Reposting this: We only had 1 day where all of the bikes were in the same place and we were unable to do a proper range test during this shoot. There is a lot that happens behind the scenes on these video shoots that viewers don't see in the final video but there were too many variables to get accurate range numbers (bikes never being truly fully charged, constantly getting recharged at different times, different riders hopping on for quick laps, recharging again). That being said, we will be doing a range test soon with the 2 bikes we find most interesting: The Stark and YZ-EMX.
Having a phone on the Stark is so dumb. I would much prefer a built in screen. It would be simpler, cheaper and more convenient for the owner and also saves all the added complexity of a whole separate device with battery, cameras, speakers, cell, Wi-Fi etc etc etc just give us a built in screen.
Reposting this: We only had 1 day where all of the bikes were in the same place and we were unable to do a proper range test during this shoot. There is a lot that happens behind the scenes on these video shoots that viewers don't see in the final video but there were too many variables to get accurate range numbers (bikes never being truly fully charged, constantly getting recharged at different times, different riders hopping on for quick laps, recharging again). That being said, we will be doing a range test soon with the 2 bikes we find most interesting: The Stark and YZ-EMX.
Ugh I hate it when people quote battery specs in "Ah" Such a meaningless spec especially when you don't know the voltage. Wh is much more universal, just do the math so we can actually interpret the size of the battery
I’ve never once had to log back in to my stark phone . And have never heard of this happening to anyone else …. The phone charges in the dock so I don’t know what yorue talking about their either. . Worst thing I’ve had with phone is 2 tiles out of 40 hours I didn’t connect to Bluetooth after an update and I just held 2 buttons and did a hard reset on bike and it was fixed . I think you guys are doing something wrong or being a bit dramatic
Great to hear you haven't had any issues. Wish we could say the same. The handful of Varg's we've been around have all been early models, so it may be something with that, but thanks for sharing your experience.
Developing one. Nothing planned at all. Not officially. At the moment, these are the only full-size electric MX bikes available. The YZ-EMX represents the idea of conversions across brands.
The reality is: if you're rich and famous, your kislux bags are seen as a sign of success. If you are just an ordinary worker working a 9-to-5 job, your real bag is likely to be considered the fruit of your efforts.
We agree the Ultra Bee is a great bike but we consider the Ultra Bee to be a mid size bike, this is the full size shootout. Mid Size Shootout is next, stay tuned!
![2024 Electric Dirt Bike SHOOTOUT [Mid Size Edition]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/1Z9peEyOt_o/mqdefault.jpg)
![2024 Electric Dirt Bike SHOOTOUT [Mid Size Edition]](/img/tr.png)
I bought the QS138 kit with the 60 amp hour battery from Electro & Co. I put it in my CRF250L frame and the bike comes in at 305 lbs with wind shield , hand guards and crash bars, ( I;m 75 and I need a bit more protection) . The bikes street legal, but I still ride off road on week ends. This bike has extended my riding life and is soooo smooth. I really like being able to hear the birds on slower trail rides. I also like the power delivery. It' way easier to ride than the old CRF 250 L. I wish they had the 75 amp hour battery when I bought the kit, but I guess I'll wait until they come out with a 120 amp battery that's the same size as mine. It may be awhile. Really enjoyed the comparison, mines no Yamaha, but it really makes me smile. Aloha Pat
Get a 220amp battery from amorge got one for about 600usd 32ah 72v
Dude you’re already winning. You still have legit power and Hondas are dope. How long did it take to mod? I bet it’s WAY smoother than 4stroke? I’ve been considering on my YZ-125
@@je7647Never even heard of them. Thanks for the suggestion
Another great video, Tucker. I would love to see a range comparison between the Varg and EMX. I currently have a Varg and use it for hard enduro and single track. I love the idea of the EMX for its lighter weight but even with a swappable battery my rides don't often loop back to the truck. So if the range was comparable between the two, I'd think hard about finding a YZ rolling chassis.
Looking forward to a range comparison particularly in mountain single track. I can get 40 miles comfortably on my Varg starting the ride at about 100% and ending at 10%. Since my weight and riding style are not the same as yours Tucker, I'd like to see that comparison with you on both bikes hitting single track. Could be very eye opening for me. Thanks again for all the great content.
I second this request. The review was great, but range was missing.
I would love to see your Varg when you ride Hard Enduro.
I think Hard Enduro would kill the Varg. The Varg has virtually no battery protection in the front and I want to see how you ride it up big tree trunks, ride rocky fields, ravines, ...
The YZ EMX is the best for me because it has a full Enduro frame with perfect protection for the engine and battery. The advantage is that other smaller 72V batteries can also be used, e.g. from Talaria, Surron, .... which also fits in the frame.
For MX the Varg is well built, but for hard Enduro it's a bad concept = bad frame and protection
@@JaneKLX agreed the protection is lacking. In my experience the bike is phenomenal in hard enduro. But it's my only electric bike. I have seen guys with some sort of plastic cover over the battery to protect it. But so far it's not been an issue for me. Finding other protection bits has been a challenge. But they are out there.
Yes please on range comparison. For enduro and trail riding, range is a heavily weighted deciding factor. That spec should be in all electric dirtbike comparisons. It doesn't matter how great a bike handles and how light it is if it won't get you around a 30 mile mountain loop. Range adds cost and weight in the form of larger battery capacity, but I'm more than willing to pay the price (in dollars and weight) for the way I use my electric dirtbikes (mountain single track, forest service roads, etc.)
Thank you! Yes, we agree and also mentioned it earlier but to make sure the comment is seen: We only had 1 day where all of the bikes were in the same place and we were unable to do a proper range test during this shoot. There is a lot that happens behind the scenes on these video shoots that viewers don't see in the final video but there were too many variables to get accurate range numbers (bikes never being truly fully charged, constantly getting recharged at different times, different riders hopping on for quick laps, recharging again). That being said, we will be doing a range test soon with the 2 bikes we find most interesting: The Stark and YZ-EMX.
Great review, makes me want to order the electro and co kit today.
The only issue I have is Alta Redshift. Buying that one, if I ever consider, is like being reminded of Harley's crime. They foxtrot the whole ordeal by letting Alta starved to death, then tried to acquire them with a banana.
You should test the yz again with the that zapper controller. I think it will have more power.
I think that this engine can produce 35-37 hp on a Dyno stand, no matter what controller is installed there
Coming soon...
@@ElectricCycleRideryus! Can’t wait 😮
Wow, finicky tech for the Stark is the Achilles. Being light weight is definitely a plus, especially after a long day of riding.
Fortunately, it's getting better with every update. A lot of the phone issues Tucker mentioned were real, but have been resolved. The issue with the owner having to sign back into your account after an update (and unable to do so if you were someplace without cellular signal) has been resolved and is not longer happening. Everything seems to be getting the bugs worked out and fewer failures with not only app and phone, but with the early battery and motors. Risk of early adopters and first year run. This second gen seems fairly ironed out. By the time they sell off this inventory and do another batch, I'd expect it to be pretty dialed in.
Great job guys. Comparison videos are where the most learning happens. I missed knowing what the actual weight with a full tank of electrons were for each bike and also wondered how much an original 250 YZF weighs compared to the Electro conversion. Would have been awesome to have the YZ gasser in the ride comparison too but that might be another video. Looking forward to my Dust Moto next year which might be more of a midsize bike with target weight of 200 lbs but track capable too. Thanks again for focusing on the electrics.
We will weigh them and post in some future content!
I think the big thing is charge time. You can bring the Stark to a track and charge between rides. The YZ you can swap batteries, but buying a second battery is $$$. I am half way thru a YZF Electric Build. Coming from a KTM Freeride I cant wait for the better suspension.
I have an E&C EMX YZ based on a 2019 YZ250F. Even with new lower price of the Varg, there are some important advantages of the YZ-EMX. First on my list is that my YZ came with CA registration and red sticker. You cannot get that for a Varg and that limits where you can ride. In 2025, my red sticker will automatically change to a green sticker and allow year round riding anywhere I want. Can’t do that (yet) on a Varg. Next up, is that I can fix or replace any component on my YZ. Motor, controller, suspension, etc. are all readily available parts and easily serviced. Also, not cheap, but there are multiple battery replacement options for the YZ and if I wanted to, I could get spare battery to swap put. As is, I got the 75 ah battery and range is not an issue for me. Lastly, there is that phone thing with the Varg. Not a fan of that either. I do hope E&C can sort out issues with the TruMoto Zapper, because that will take my YZ to a whole new level of performance. I also want to upgrade the motor to the new upgraded QS138 70 V3 with E&C rebuilt and hoping E&C comes out with an improved version of the Surron throttle, but that is for another day. Varg is super nice, but I think the YZ-EMX is my preference.
At the current sale price it seems like the the Varg is a the obvious choice. With the Varg at MSRP the YZ-E deserves a hard look provided you're open to a bit of a project.
I was intrigued by the Arctic Leopard until I saw one in person. The quality is simply not there for the money. Ultra Bee quality is significantly better. Stark Varg quality is the best in the business. The YZ-E advantages are parts availability and likely easier DIY repairs down the road along with the slightly lower weight. I still don't think it's worth doing with the current Varg pricing. Varg also has a two year warranty that the company has been very good about.
If you do it yourself you can convert way cheaper. My 2020 CRF build all in with a 30 hour roller is just under $4k. The fab work is honestly pretty easy.
@@RMZ298$4k? A decent sized battery costs most of $4k
@@davidawaters The electro and co ones are around $2k, you can get similar from Amorge for $1k or build your own.
their $3200 60AH at 76V is still only 4.5kwh, quite a bit less than the Stark’s 6.5 when range is the limiting factor for this market. Maybe it’s the even smaller 48AH that you were thinking about being $2k?
@davidawaters yeah I agree which is why I didn't even bother to reply. I ride trails. I need the biggest battery i can get. Absolutely zero chance I could build anything even remotely useful for 4k.
I have a good news for you guys, we can sell QS138 v3 motor for Yamaha conversion just for 499euro ( 549 usd), And if you need battery we have 3.8kwh 72v battery capable of 20kw power, just for 1699 euro /1800 usd, controller that we have with color display cost 499 euro / 549 usd.. so overall it's about 2900 usd or 3200 with FedEx shipping!
Great video guys! I was hoping for some mention of the DustMoto Hightail I reserved yesterday. I know it's a bit smaller, but that can be an advantage too. I'm looking forward to THAT comparison for sure. When it comes time to put the real money into the Hightail, I will surely take a good look at the E&C conversion options, thanks to this video.
I left my first comment before the video was over. That's not bad for the conversion kit for the YZ.. if you already have the rolling chassis. That's not a deal that's a steal. Just say 8K I don't think that's bad 💚👍🏼👍🏼👍🏼
You can set the varg phone to auto-update the system and apps. It might help your issues. Also, it's an old version of Android so rebooting often would probably help.
Thank you, we are getting the auto updates but still not curing all the issues. Rebooting!
If it hasn't be said you can ride the varg without the phone. Just set map one to the hp you want and set the other 5 to the minimum. That way you can instantly feel your in the wrong map without needing the phone as a display. Doesn't stop the updates and updated maps when you do eventually dock the phone but does allow you to disconnect from the tech when you are riding.
It's both funny and sad that the Redshift is still relevant. Mark did an amazing job with that bike and now he's helping with a new one.
Mark is a great guy and we mean it when we say the Redshift was truly the benchmark.
Top end has 400 hrs on it. 😂 😂😂 Great video, would be fun to do the YZ EMX kit build.
The result i would expect. The Alta MXR is still a great bike, and an absolutely bargain value if you can get one for less than 7k. The Varg is on a planet of its own though! Swappable battery isn't a deal breaker for me as I'm typically tired before the bike is spent. If Varg had a little faster charging it would be even better. Kudos to Electro and Co for offering a competitive option that slots between!
Agree! Thanks for your input Bryan.
Seems I've been lucky with the phone/app on my Varg. While I don't love it I've not had any problems with it.
Good to know. Our bike (and the few others we're around often) are some of the earliest off the production line, maybe something with that...
Blown out yzf motors are about to get trashed and replaced. Yamaha needs to partner with them and if not. Predicting that Yamaha will have a hard time selling new yzf bikes. Especially if riders can just swap their existing motor and get more use out of the chassis.
Looking forward to seeing how long it takes to install the YZEMX kit. I’d also love to see that bike put on a scale⚖️
I bought the kit and did in 1 day.
Haven't seen a scale number but they are claiming 242 for the kit YZ so figure 245 or about 20 lbs less than a Varg. Believe you can feel 5 lbs difference so that is a big difference.
Hello ECR, I hope you'll be able to get your hands on the new KTM Freeride E and its sister bike Husqvarna Pioneer. It will be interesting to see if they have different characters while sharing the same platform. Keep up the great work!
Yes, we're scheduled to get on the bike as soon as it's here in the USA. Thank you!
It be fun if you guys would do a review on the Lizcat conversion kit for the Yz 250 or 450. It is a bit pricy tho, but it looks really good once converted.
I just looked and their kit is over $10k. It's nearly the cost of a varg without a chassis. I don't see any benefit to this over a Varg. Do you?
You r forgetting the Ktm Freeride, which is a full-blown dirtbike. There is also the Surron Bee
Those are good in their segment but not in this company
Thank you Tucker!!
awesome vid!
I don't have any issues with the phone/app on mine. I've had it for over a year, and at one point it lost connectivity with the bike after an update, but support sorted that one out quickly
Just how many different times did they tell us the Yamaha EMX is lighter , and that the Stark Varg is heavier … Yet never specifying the actual difference with a number. WTF ?
And, they don't talk about one of the most important metrics for trail riders; range. A bigger battery is more expensive and weighs more. I don't care how light a bike is. If it can't even do a 20 to 30 miles loop, it's worthless to me. I'm doing 36 mile recreational rides (single track and 50" ATV trails) with my Varg and ending the day with 30% battery. Love not having to drain it to 5% to go 25 - 30 miles like my previous electric dirtbikes.
YZ-EMX = 242 lbs
Stark Varg = 260 lbs in its lightest trim
We did not have time to do a full range comparison. But I have a YZ-F conversion with a 72v 51ah battery (as opposed to the 76v 75ah battery on the YZ-EMX that we tested). Mine uses the Votol EM260 controller while the YZ-EMX uses the newer EM260S. My bike is pretty light weight at 220 lbs. In the lowest map, which is 150a, I get about 20-25 miles of range depending on terrain. So considering the slightly higher voltage of the YZ-EMX and much higher AH, I would estimate that the bike should be able to get 30-35 miles of range on the trail. Maybe even 40 in the right conditions.
Thank you @@bayodome! Good info.
I've gone up to about 25 miles on my EMX on few hr ride on casual trail riding and I weigh 220 with gear.
@@sdsuscott interesting. Could you have gone further? Would think you'd be able to. What kind of terrain?
So much leg swag. Great and helpful review. More of Bayo
Haha thank you sir... whoever you are!
Will Yamaha or Honda ever release an equivalent electric dirt bike?
Iv'e seen the Honda electric bike. I expect you will see CF MOTO come first.
Eventually, they will have to. Electric tech has too many advantages to ignore.
Yes but who knows when
If so, it will be a very complex concept with water cooling, ...
The YZ EMX is a simple and smart concept where the motor costs 500-700 dollars. This machine is so simple, it couldn't be simpler.
The purchase price is not important to me. More importantly, how much does the material cost for service and maintenance, how much does another set of plastics cost. How much does a graphics kit cost? This is on the YZ EMX side. I will buy everything for it and everywhere very cheaply, I will do the service myself at home. But Varg, Alta, ... ????
The new electric factory Honda, Yamaha, KTM, .... will be very expensive for everything and for the hobbyist it will all be very expensive.
It’s called the Honda CRE!🫶🏻❤️
I’m between the stark varg and the eride pro Sr. And advice recommendations?
I was Smiling from ear to ear just from the thumbnail 👍👍
I would go for the Stark Varg and I might even just get the 60hp variant since I have seen a lot of reviews where they say that 80hp is basically too much for any situation i.e. unnecessary and more of a flex than anything else.
100 hours on my Stark, never have I had any issues with the stark app or phone. So what’s the deal?
There aren't any big problems, it's the frequent small hiccups that are frustrating: sometimes the bluetooth loses the bike as a saved profile, sometimes the app freezes, sometimes it doesn't record rides, sometimes it looses the map presets, sometimes the phone just overheats. The problem is a low end phone combined with a not very good optimized app. I have a stark too, and i got it more than an year ago. Fortunately the app can be improved
Mine flies out after occasional big hits. Even after double checking the mount it doesn’t make a difference. Leads me to back tracking 20-30 minutes each time to hunt down where it landed on the trail
@@roadrenegade9349 the easiest solution to drive without a phone
Reassuring to hear you've had no issues. We, and several of our counterparts, have unfortunately not had the same experience.
what's the range in hours? or miles on mountain road of each? i want to use bike to explore the wild, not track...
@@ovidiulucaci3531 I've gone about 25 miles and over 2 hrs on my EMX.
Great review!!!
I think you would also need to see about the local support for making that decision as well.
@@MarkFries-o7n True fact!! Stark definitely wins there.
Phone works fine on my Varg. You don't even really need it. It operates fine without but you don't have you battery level info. Also the weight difference over the YZ-E is simply battery size. Why no range test? The giant battery in the Varg is barely adequate for any off road riding.
The Artic Leapords are sick
Awesome video, care to share the name of the trail? I'm always in the El Dorado forest camping with my bike
Nvm I found it lol
The single most important thing to mention is the range... Nothing else matters
Reposting this: We only had 1 day where all of the bikes were in the same place and we were unable to do a proper range test during this shoot. There is a lot that happens behind the scenes on these video shoots that viewers don't see in the final video but there were too many variables to get accurate range numbers (bikes never being truly fully charged, constantly getting recharged at different times, different riders hopping on for quick laps, recharging again). That being said, we will be doing a range test soon with the 2 bikes we find most interesting: The Stark and YZ-EMX.
The Alta has a parts issue or at least it will have. It had a low production volume and current owners are hording parts. Varg phone; I agree. You don't need a ride show stopper like a flakey phone.
Best electric bikes for hard enduro. That is where arcric leopard belongs. It is not an mx bike. And do a range comparison also.
The arctic leopard e-xe 880 range is 50+ miles in real world riding. Enduro and off road desert trails.
@775Garage yes.
5 hours in extreme use, and over 60 miles in full throttle use. Was funny to see arctic leopard towing stark varg and honda crf250 from the desert. Both at the same time
how can you argue with the Yamaha platform... doesn't get any better. the fact the varg has 80 hp is kind of mute, no one can handle that kind of power in moto or off road conditions anyway... waste of time, along with the vargs other issues, the stupid smart phone, the heavy unchangeable battery, the useless charger in the stand set up... the Yamaha all day every day, until Hondas e bike comes out anyway...
range ??
Reposting this: We only had 1 day where all of the bikes were in the same place and we were unable to do a proper range test during this shoot. There is a lot that happens behind the scenes on these video shoots that viewers don't see in the final video but there were too many variables to get accurate range numbers (bikes never being truly fully charged, constantly getting recharged at different times, different riders hopping on for quick laps, recharging again). That being said, we will be doing a range test soon with the 2 bikes we find most interesting: The Stark and YZ-EMX.
You need to get the gel seat covers, for Harley-Davidsons, I put one on my bike it's way better the seats are way too thin nowadays on ebayyyyyyy
Besides the Yamaha isn’t a legit bike from Yamaha….but it’s time for them to get in the game and Honda to release theirs
Please do a test on the street legal 2025 Husqvarna Pioneer.
It was great to see a shootout in NorCal at Riverfront MX and Georgetown OHV! I really wish the range issue could be addressed sooner than later so I can ride an eMoto on longer rides or days at the track. Until that happens, the ICE bikes will have a place in the garage. For me, the sweet spot would be, at least, 50 miles of range at a weight of 230-235. In short, can't wait until eMotos can go head-to-head with a competition ICE bike. The Varg comes close and I really like it but it's not always practical to charge at the track or trail and the range is too limiting for all-day rides.
Great job on the video guys!
50 miles @ 230 lbs. I'm trying to find one that'll go 35 miles ridden aggressively. 35 to 50 will be a H-U-G-E (multi-year decades?, orders of magnitude) technological step. Rapidly improving battery technology is the biggest lie of the past 50 years.
Maybe?? your grandson will have that bike, but it won't be in our lifetime.
I've gotten 70 miles on an easy ride on my converted CRF250L, and on Hard rides I get between 45, and 50 miles.
@@Mauipat I saw a video of someone with a 12Kw Ultra Bee with a 5.5Kwh battery barely make 35 miles in a not particularly hilly race. What are your bike's Kw & Kwh, & are you talking 45 - 50 miles in a race ridden by an expert level rider ?
At 230 lbs you're back to riding 300 sized bikes & I 've done that & not interested in a 38" seat height for technical 15 -35mph woods riding. I want something about the size of an Ultra Bee (36" seat height/ 180 lbs) with 15 - 20Kw that can be raced 35 miles.
I mean noises coming from Chinese built bikes we would expect that lower quality, yamaha's chassis would be on another dimension
400 Hours OnnThat Top End🤣😂🤣 The Alta got so much hate. When it first come out. And they went out of business that was a bummer. They were talking about you can't get parts. I'm not sure if there's aftermarket. If somebody was starting out I don't think you could go wrong with any of these. The Stark definitely got the hype. Over 80 HP that's a beast. And if you was going to do a electrical conversion what's that about 12K 10K.. I'm just guessing because I don't know.. these are pretty damn cool boss man 👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻💚👍🏼👍🏼👍🏼😎👊🏻💨💥🤙🏻🤙🏻
What city/state you in? You in nor cal?
We did the test at Riverfront MX and Georgetown!
I won't touch anything Electro & Co sells they burned me with their EMXron kit. What about the Storm Bee? It'a fullsized and has swappable battery. There is also the Zero FX (with the chain conversion). I own a Redshift SM and I've ridden a Varg and Redshift EX and they seem very similar to me. But I didn't have a lot of time with them and not back to back.
I had opposite experience. I bought their EMX kit and had small issue, they made it right and sent me new parts for free. Would definitely deal with them again. I'm looking for another roller to make 2nd EMX right now. I also have stark and the Yamaha EMX feels so much better on track and trail. Stark is fun to turn way up on power but don't really need it.
I believe the Zero and the Storm Bee are not competition offerings so would be in a different category along side KTM's Freeride.
@@jimji2774 Looks pretty competitive to me. A Storm Bee almost won Virginia City Grand Prix electric class this year also, if it had a 2nd battery it would have dominated, which is another advantage of the Storm is it has swappable battery packs.
th-cam.com/users/shortsHMco7WFLBLw?si=9vgA-VAUmBAs0jh_
Modded Surron Storm could not make the list?
Great question and we considered mentioning this in the video but the Surron Storm Bee and the KTM Freeride are close but just not up to the task of real MX riding (without modification) - we had to test bikes that could handle it in stock form.
@@ElectricCycleRider the Yamaha is hardly “stock” form.
Dang... you were in my area!
RANGE?
Reposting this: We only had 1 day where all of the bikes were in the same place and we were unable to do a proper range test during this shoot. There is a lot that happens behind the scenes on these video shoots that viewers don't see in the final video but there were too many variables to get accurate range numbers (bikes never being truly fully charged, constantly getting recharged at different times, different riders hopping on for quick laps, recharging again). That being said, we will be doing a range test soon with the 2 bikes we find most interesting: The Stark and YZ-EMX.
10:44 Rode with this dude at Carnage ⚡️
Stark all the way.
Storm Bee? Altis Sigma? Mototec Venom?
The Altis is a mini bike
The Yamaha is the best
Having a phone on the Stark is so dumb. I would much prefer a built in screen. It would be simpler, cheaper and more convenient for the owner and also saves all the added complexity of a whole separate device with battery, cameras, speakers, cell, Wi-Fi etc etc etc just give us a built in screen.
Is it just my TH-cam or are the timestamps wonky?
🐝🏁 Video 👍
You do not need the phone to ride the stark lmao😂
I agree, the problem is out of nowhere. Just leave your phone and drive without it.
You do if you want to see what your battery percentage and power mode is.
Forgot about the storm bee
Terima kasih video
Lots of disrespect to the Alta. It's got 50hp, in map 4 it hauls @ss. Best bike I've ever ridden by far.
I want to see a video about the new Husqvarna Pioneer
We will post soon!
Great video but how can you do a comparison and not talk about range.
Reposting this: We only had 1 day where all of the bikes were in the same place and we were unable to do a proper range test during this shoot. There is a lot that happens behind the scenes on these video shoots that viewers don't see in the final video but there were too many variables to get accurate range numbers (bikes never being truly fully charged, constantly getting recharged at different times, different riders hopping on for quick laps, recharging again). That being said, we will be doing a range test soon with the 2 bikes we find most interesting: The Stark and YZ-EMX.
Ugh I hate it when people quote battery specs in "Ah"
Such a meaningless spec especially when you don't know the voltage. Wh is much more universal, just do the math so we can actually interpret the size of the battery
I’ve never once had to log back in to my stark phone . And have never heard of this happening to anyone else …. The phone charges in the dock so I don’t know what yorue talking about their either. . Worst thing I’ve had with phone is 2 tiles out of 40 hours I didn’t connect to Bluetooth after an update and I just held 2 buttons and did a hard reset on bike and it was fixed . I think you guys are doing something wrong or being a bit dramatic
I also found it strange
Great to hear you haven't had any issues. Wish we could say the same. The handful of Varg's we've been around have all been early models, so it may be something with that, but thanks for sharing your experience.
Wrong again ...my VELIMOTOR VMX12 was in fact the "benchmark" bike❗
great video but elsucko lectro rap crap from hell music
Can you consider manufacturing location? I only want to look at bikes made in North America or Europe
Why do you need Tucker to do this for you? The list of bikes that meet this requirement is quite short...just buy a Varg.
@@jetrepDust Moto is US based and will have a bike out mid 2025
5000 for that YZ, I heard it's like a 4:50
The dangerous part is nobody. Here you're coming. Down the trail
They'll see your dust cloud
My varg is by no means quiet. Only if there are other load bikes around.
But they're nice
Don’t forget honda is coming out with one
Developing one. Nothing planned at all. Not officially. At the moment, these are the only full-size electric MX bikes available. The YZ-EMX represents the idea of conversions across brands.
So what should i get thats not the price of a used car…..
makes me wanna just go with gas
All the guys I see riding electric bikes walk with a hip sway. It's worse than four-stroke guys.
You watch guys walk?
🤙🏽⚡️🤟🏽⚡️👌🏽
The reality is: if you're rich and famous, your kislux bags are seen as a sign of success. If you are just an ordinary worker working a 9-to-5 job, your real bag is likely to be considered the fruit of your efforts.
ultra bee all the way
We agree the Ultra Bee is a great bike but we consider the Ultra Bee to be a mid size bike, this is the full size shootout. Mid Size Shootout is next, stay tuned!
@@ElectricCycleRider In addition to the Ultra Bee, is there any other mid size bike?
@@ElectricCycleRiderDon't forget the Sirris upgraded Ultra Bee vs Stark on trails.
@@ElectricCycleRider Looking forward to that!
Surrons are kids toys
The BEST? Well put, as saying the best out of a shite bunch. EV bikes are terrible and dangerously silent for racing
2t or die
Hell yeah brother.
Awesome review!