Hey Tom, If my calculations are correct you just burned through about $200 in carbide end mills, a perfectly good brand new extractor stud, and half an afternoon of your valuable time on a junk yard scrap manifold all for a few hash comments on a tool review! I got to say, YOUR THE MAN! Looking forward to round two buddy! Thanks man, Ray
Hay Tom. After twisting wrenches for forty plus years I have decided there is no such thing as an "easy out" or "screw extractor" I've been using the method mentioned previously of welding a nut with a washer as a spacer between nut and the object, I have used this method on heavy equipment on bolts from one inch down to a quarter inch with 99% success. The theory is when you weld the nut on the heat from the welding heats the broken piece up which then expands, it cant expand sideways so it has to expand along its length then as it cools and shrinks it loosens just enough that you can screw it out. Some times it takes a couple of tries but most always works. Please keep the videos coming, I've learned more about machining from your and the other machinist videos in the last few months than I ever thought possible.
Amateurs believe that these things never happen to professionals. It is encouraging for us to see that sometimes even professionals struggle. :) Thanks for the video. Looking forward to see round 2. Mehmet
Hi Mehmet, You are correct. The struggle is part of the fun sometimes. Having to use all your tricks and superpowers is fun. Thanks for the comment. Cheers, Tom
I have a been a diesel tech for more than 10 years now so I've seen my fair share of broken exhaust manifold and turbo studs. These extractors works ok when you drill to biggest diameter possible. But to me the best technique I find is still the washer and nut technique. You weld the washer to remaining stud first then weld the nut to the washer. Works best when using extraction weld rods but something you don't have all the space to move so I use the MIG. Extraction rods work good when the studs are broken inside the hole, you mount your stud out of the hole with tacks. Repeated heat helps.
Tom, as an old car guy, I had to laugh so many times. Your vid is much better than the "it worked once" vids. More real world. Now, real world is it in the engine bay with all kinds of stuff in the way and you need to use a right-angle drill to get in there while standing on a crate leaning over in an awkward angle and cant see. For me, the big blue O/A wrench is the only way you'll get it out. "If it ain't glowin', it aint coming out." My choice is drilling up to the thread minor diameter then using a tap to clean the junk out. People complain about the cost to have someone do it. They don't know the pile of expensive carbide, cobalt and broken special tools you are left with. ;) Ok, I see and EDM machine added to your wish list. Keep up the great vids.
You forgot to add that it's a 37 degree F day, just cold enough to be extremely uncomfortable, but just warm enough for icy water to be dripping on you while you're under there working.
Victor Stanwick Here in GA its more likely 96 degrees with 100% humidity. Then trying to drill with sweat dripping into your eyes and glasses. ;) Oh, the stud will also never come loose unless you have slammed you hand against something sharp first. They want to see blood.
You're probably going to get a million suggestions about what to do next, so I will give you one or two more to consider. I work as a millwright and have run across my share of broken off bolts. I think there are two types of scenarios you run into. Bolts that have been sheared or otherwise broken off, but aren't necessarily so stuck in the hole and bolts that broke off as they were trying to be removed. The latter ones are the tough ones and that's what it looks like you have here. I haven't had much luck with 'easy outs', especially on the smaller bolts. I think when you pound them in you expand the bolt and it almost makes them tighter. The best luck I've had is with welding a nut on top of the broken bolt. The heat from the welding process is a big help here too I think. If the bolt or stud is recessed, then a good welder can build a post or else a pipe nipple or similar thing can be shoved in the hole and welded on. Anyways, just my thoughts, good luck.
Hi Etienne, Thanks for the suggestion. I don't think I could have got much weld on the stud as short as I cut it off. Maybe we will get another manifold and try some other methods. Thanks for the comment. Cheers, Tom
Hey Tom, a big thumbs up for this one. It's validation for all of us who've lost the battle, but eventually won the war. Alway great to see how a professional approaches the problem. Merry Christmas!
Thanks for creating this project for us viewers. I always admire a man who doesn't have enough problems that he is willing to make new ones strictly to learn from them! lol I think when that extractor snapped I would have gone for trying to weld a nut to it. Beyond that get your welders/cutting torch over there and put some heat in that thing! if you can't see it glow its not hot enough yet!! That manifold probably had 1500deg exhaust running through it for years lots of heat can only be your friend!
YIKES.....watching this was like reliving my past (and probably my future)....started to get sick to my stomach, headache, kicked the dog, yelled at the kids, phoned a friend to commiserate and then do what I always do in this situation, make a cocktail!!! Best of luck in part 2!!!!
Being a truck mechanic I have taken my share of broken exhaust studs drilling has always been my last thing I will do but if I drill I always use left hand drill bits as somethings the drill will catch and unscrew the broken bolt. My preferred method is extraction welding rod and a larger nut. As always great video Tom!
Well Tom I have been down that road, sometimes the manifold is cheeper to replace than the labour to extract the stud or bolt. Cat engines are some of the worst to get out, the studs taper at the end and they wedge them selves in the holes of the cylinder heads, havent had to change a head yet.
Couldn't help but grin from time to time. I've been on both ends of this type of situation. Thank you for sharing! It's good to see the thought process as well as the actual "fix". Best wishes, Tom Z
As a vehicle technician, this is a good representation of our struggle. I'm young and I still got much to learn, but my teacher told me that when bolts or nuts are stuck, heat them to a cherry red. It solved most, but not all, of my problems. Some times I had to drill and tap out the broken off bolts by hand. I thank you for this video. It's both entertaining and educational.
As a mechanic, I don't even mess with extractors anymore. Sometimes they work for broken brass fittings, but I haven't found an extractor that won't break more often than not. What I usually end up doing is drilling through as big as possible with a drill making sure not to damage the threads. Then I get my little mini angle die grinder with an 1/8th inch arbor, and hog out the inside diameter of the broke bolt until the threads just barely show. Then you can peel the threads out one at a time. Run a tap through to clean the threads up and done. Broken extractors are more of a pain than using the die grinder.
Don’t let it win ‘Mr. Wizard.’ I can hardly wait to turn the page on this-one. Real-life problems that do confound us all! As always, thanks’ for taking the time to make this video! And I support this site. ~M~
What I've found with any form of screw extraction, is that if the bolt broke, then the smaller diameter extractor probably will too. So I usually just jump straight to drilling and tapping it out to avoid having to drill out HSS. Good video on showing an average day in screw extracting. :)
As a former car guy, when I purchased this extractor set 20 years ago my tool guy warned me about using these on blind holes. A tapered twist extractor can be removed if one sees the broken fastener wont budge by turning the other direction. When these break it makes for a real mess as you have found out.
Kudos, Tom. Very few have he courage and self confidence to take on the unknown live on camera. That was frustrating, and the only point was to cater to viewers. Not fun, but very instructional for amateur mechanics like me. Thank you. Any of your fans who laughed are jerks. I really like that extraction system that has no taper on the extractor. I think I’ll get a set.
Those kinds of screw extractors always break anyway. Either the "splined shaft" breaks or you strip the "spline" right off the sucker. I've always had more luck hammering a Torx socket in.
If there is a more demoralizing event in life than a broken bit in the hole, I don't know what it is. I admire your stamina. I have to admit that when you broke that bit I laughed my head off mostly because --been there done that. Great vid.
Holy mothering Christmas extraction. Tom has dug a hole, let's all comment with nothing but positive recommendations as to how to git out of this sucker Great stuff Tom, very enjoyable.... good luck
I enjoy all your videos, but this one made my day. When you were twisting on the extractor there at the end, I was hoping for a second SNAP, just to see a good candid reaction. Sick, I know. :) Brent
Hi Tom Loved the video, can't wait to see the finally. I recently bought a cheap made-in-china set of those extractors to try on my next foul up, and glad to see where there limits are. My usual method is to drill to the minor diameter and pick or tap out the remaining. I gratly enjoy your videos as they have opened up possibilities to methods of work and projects I never thought was possible.
Hi Tom! I follow the Keiths and Adam (and you) almost daily. One quibble: There are "car guys" and then there are other "car guys". I'm one of the "other" car guys. I'm also a Mechanical Engineer and made straight "A" in Machine Shop when the instructor was a crusty old ex-Navy Machinist. A "real" car guy would have double nutted that stud, used Kroil (like you did, love that stuff), let it sit and warmed it up. I also build engines for myself and friends, and my Granddad was a Machinist for Lockheed (then Bell Aircraft) and built B29s. One time I found myself under a friend's Dodge van with a broken shift linkage. The outer threaded part of the 1-2 fork had broken off. I hand drilled the thing and tapped it (while laying on my back) and put a grade-8 bolt in. Then I realized the rain dripping off the van was freezing... BTW I don't claim to be a Machinist. Just a wannabe... I would give my left, um, eyebrow to have a shop... ;)
Hey Phil, It just goes to show I'm a phony car guy. I'll let you in on a secret. I don't even change my own oil. Pretty bad huh? Thanks for the comment. Cheers, Tom
I learned early on in my decades of machine shop experiences that it was going to be a piece that was headed to the shop with the EDM. For $60 the broken off whatever would be out and I would be having a cup of coffee. Love your video's, thanks for sharing, and putting in all the effort. Very Merry Christmas to you. ELECTRIC DISCHARGE MACHINING (EDM) is the only fast and efficient way of removing broken tools like taps, drills, and fasteners. Most commonly EDM effectively removes broken bolts, broken drills, broken sparkplugs, broken ez outs, and broken taps.
Hey Tfp, The car guys would be howling. How can you get your EDM machine under the car with all that snow on the ground. Thanks for the comment. Cheers, Tom
I've just recently started enjoying your vids. One day I might just have to do a response out of my own shop... I think what you needed was a can of freeze-spray, found at your local electronics supplier. First you apply the heat, then you freeze the extractor and the remainder of the stuck bolt. This technique worked like a charm on a steel freeze plug (Marine = Brass) in the head of a seawater cooled engine (351 WIndsor). Whoever put that together was, well... I won't go there, but the extraction technique worked like a charm. I did use a 4' piece of 3/4" galvie pipe with a 1/2" socket extension welded to the middle of it as a wrench. The socket extension fit the I.D. of the plug perfectly, making stripping it nearly impossible... Of course the heads were still on the engine in the boat, making this a Mission Impossible sort of thing... sort'a like the mechanic under the car...
step4560 Hey Step, The only thing worse than laying in the mud under a car is swishing about in the bilge of a boat with stinky oily seawater soaking your clothes. Thanks for the comment. Cheers, Tom
Hey Tom. Have you ever seen or heard of the candle trick? Heat the whole area to cherry red then hold a candle on it till it cools enough that the candle stops melting. Then let the part cool to room temp and try to turn the broken piece out. The Idea is that the wax will wick into the threads and act as a lubricant. I dont know if thats what is actually happening or if its just the heating and cooling that breaks it loose. I have had mixed success with it but never the less there is always a candle in my tool box just in case.
I have had those extractors for years. The box they come in is used to support the EZouts that I use that actually work. I gave them an honest try several times.
Hello Tom, Just watched the video but had to stop when the the extractor went 'ping', I was laughing so much! Reminded me of the first and ONLY time I used one of those LH screw extractors on my Honda bike exhaust stud. It went ping as well. These 'extractors' are the devils invention. I now use LH or RH carbide drill bits. That 'ping' of mine taught me a lesson I have never forgotten. Seasons wishes to you and followers. Geoff From UK, not VA
The nut adapter in that kit is double tall allowing the use of two wrenches (similar to a tap wrench), reducing the side loading of the splined extractor..
exhaust studs,are heat cycled so many times that they get really hard. that's why the're so much fun to change. some vehicles break studs just because of the way the exhaust mounts and puts load on the studs as the engine vibrates.
The high tensile stud allows specs to be maintained at high temps and keep a tighter clamp force . Head gaskets on turbo or super charged vehicles also have the harder botls .
I know this was only a demonstration on using a screw extractor kit to remove a broken stud, but it's a great video showing why screw extractors and or easy-outs seldom work. If the bolt is in a housing so tight that it won't back out on it's own without breaking, a hardened and brittle extractor is sure to break off. And driving an extractor or easy-out down into a drilled out bolt just wedges the bolt in even tighter. Easy-out = it ain't easy and it won't come out. Some heat from a good hot torch, some of that Kroil oil he had on the bench and a pair of vice-grips would have that broken bolt out in 5 minutes.
oxtoolco Hey Tom, I'd try turning that extractor with a deep socket if you can, that box end really seems to be side loading it, kept waiting for it to snap again. A socket might be a little more forgiving, or if nothing else, contain the flying fragments if it breaks again! Good luck and Merry Christmas!
Hey Eric, Desperate jobs require desperate ideas. I think the stud is something special. Its barely magnetic and fairly hard but not super hard. Thanks for the comment. Cheers, Tom
Tom Good to see you having a go with those wonderful extractors. Welcome again to my "Getter Out World" (notwithstanding the many you have taken out I'm sure). Lets step back into my classroom: One: most of the automotive studs are metric 10.9 or 12.9 MPA extra high tensile strength (similar to allen screws). Two: Always drill all the way through (as you did). Three: DONT drive the extractor in very far! go about 1D or so. If it works it will remove the stud, if it doesn't the extractor can be removed easily. Four: Use "freeze it" to shrink the stud. Five: DON'T wobble the drill. Six: DON'T wobble the spanner. Seven: Keep the spanner and the driver nut as close to the surface as possible. Eight: Drill to the maximum extractor diameter that you can. Nine: Exhaust studs can at times "weld themselves in" and become part of the parent metal (Caterpillar is a fine example because of the extreme heat they work at compared to many other brands) and generally the turbo is another area where we see that a lot. Ten: When the manifold is the problem I do all the work in the Mill, gives good control. Eleven: If the extractor turns in the stud after you have done all that, cut your losses, drill the stud out and fit a coil, don't waste your time. Twelve Cut/or grind the stud down to as close to the casting face as you can (reduce the amount of drilling depth required. I do one or two manifold holding studs on the blocks in situe on tractor trucks or cars or machines a week, leaning under the hood sometimes with mirrors and all sorts of other systems, at times up to 10 studs on one motor. Then your faced with the added problem of steady accurate drilling, arthritic wrists etc. Any chance to put the patient on the Mill has to take priority. About half the studs have to be drilled out completely, some come out with the lefty, and 30-40% with the extractors. Add to that in most cases there are too many peripherals that are strategically placed on the motors (aluminium air con pipes, fuel lines, sensors and their umbilical cords etc. that applying heat is not an option). Add to that as well, in lots of cases someone has "had a go" and left a broken tap or ezi out in the stud, and in most cases "off centre" or "skew" Yes Tom I have probably broken about 15 ezi outs over the years and I also have a few that I have shortened. If you refrain from driving them in too far then you have a fire escape. The extractors like drill bits are consumables in my eyes, and the bonus with those kits is that you can get singular replacements. My wife loves your sound effects (Grunt - Groan - Moan). Ps Have a great Holiday, and a safe New Year.
Hey Bruce, Thanks for the pro pointers. I don't think I want to take the advanced getter out classes. As soon as you mention laying underneath something or working under the hood I'm off. Gent Harris mentioned driving the extractor partially in then wiggling it out several times to leave a backdoor to getting the extractor out. I was expecting the extractor to wind up instead of fracturing like it did. I'm looking around for another manifold to try some of the other techniques and suggestions folks like you sent it. Happy holidays to you and yours! Hope you don't get any emergency calls for getter out over the holidays. Cheers, Tom
90s toyota... seeing that stud extractor break sent a shiver in my spine...man that thing is a nightmare nothing sweeter than having a harder material stuck in the middle of the thing....brings alot of memories ,,,
Hey Tom, a second wrench on that slip on fitting might prevent the extractor from breaking and give you a little better leverage, just a thought good luck.
Tom, I've been in your shoes several times while repairing aircraft stuff out on the ramp with cold, snow and a mean foreman on my back to get it done before the morning flight. Your bulldog tenacity lets me know the flight would have been on time! Cheers and Merry Christmas Gene
Thanks for the video Tom. I've been in the automotive industry for 30+ years and have snapped off my fair share of not so easy outs and no you didn't hurt my feelings at all. lol keep making your video's I love the hell out of them.
Hi Tom,i have this extractor set as well,from my experience they are not great on applications where the stud is seized solid,they just snap easily.But i found them to be the best extractors when removing seized/snapped glow plugs from cylinder heads.Regards Ivan
Great video! Yeah, you need to mount the vice under the table where it's hard to get to and even harder to see. Lol. Been down this road before!! It can be tricky drilling center when the bolt is flush like that. The end of the threads make the center mark look off center. I worked for a ford truck dealer and had a Toyota pickup that I used for off-road fun. For reasons I don't understand, ford exhaust studs and bolts almost always break off and give you a fit. And some how all of the 1982-1989 Toyotas that I have had rarely had that problem??? Maybe something to do with the hardness. You found a good one there tho! Lol. Another trick that I have had some success with is taping around the outside with a hammer to help loosen the rust or corrosion. I have even used an air hammer with a blunt end bit. You know your getting somewhere when you start seeing the rusty cloud leaking out. You know, it's the "get a bigger hammer" method! Lol. Good luck! Looking forward to part two through..... Lol.
Merry Christmas Tom! I was waiting to see that baby pop out, not like it was a dry birth! LOL You know I follow suit with needing to remove and bring into shop, mostly so all the chips, swarf and rust is guaranteed not to get where it's not suppose to go! We all want to give them the best job and that is how we do it, by mounting it in the machine or any of the shop tricks we can pull off in our shop environment. I'm glad to have taken the time to stop by and catch your video! ;{)-----
Hey Keith, I'm glad you caught this one. Its a real winner. There is a part two coming out soon. Watch me get my ass handed to me with wrapping paper. Thanks for the comment. Cheers, Tom
Keith, no mechanic in his right mind would even start the job like that, without first blocking off the passages that can lead to disasters. We do carry a sense of where things belong and where they don't. I know I'm just a lowly mechanic, machinist, and I know you don't like mechanics, but hey, we do the best job we can, given the circumstances we work in. }[:)
I don't think I ever expressed that I didn't like mechanics, in my whole life, there have been a few that made me shake my head. I was a mechanic before the yards and an outside machinist for, four or five years before becoming an inside machinist. I have had to block off with hard flanges and coffer dams and plugs, red eyes etc. just personally feel that 100% debrief free is a greater possibility disassembled and on the machine, not that it is affordable and the demo that Tom is giving and the sharing of every possible trick in the book, or everybody book sometimes isn't going to keep things from going sour, but there is that better chance that any of the mechanics or machinist tricks would of worked the first time if the extra removal, put the part on the bench in front of performing their magic. ;{)-----
This video's getting me frustrated and I'm just watching! Great comments too, as fun as the video. I was actually saying 'snap' right as the extractor snapped! Hate when that happens. Great videos, keep up the good work.
What an ass kicking! Man, time time for a snack after watching that one. They picked a good one for you Tom. You sure they didn't weld that sucker in there? LOL Good prime example on how a seemingly simple job can turn into a headache. Good thing we don't have to work on this stuff out in the driveway Tom. I think it's time to forget the extractors, and let the carbide endmills do the talking. Cool video, thanks for sharing. Will be looking for round 2. Adam
Hey Adam, You got that right. The gloves are coming off in round two. I like your saying. Not popping the hood, not laying under anything, no tools are going outside and I will not be rushed. Thanks for stopping by and watching me flop around. Talk to you soon. Tom
I thought the exact same thing while watching it Adam, as my boyfriend would say "shit grew arms and legs" haha. What a royal pain in the bum Looking forward to next vid also :) Kim
Hey Tom, Hope you're well :) I'm normally looming in the background somewhere :) been super busy though so not been able to sit on TH-cam forever :( Have a fab Christmas to you both :) Kim
oxtoolco That's how we had to do it Tom. Too much time is wasted screwing around outside with people wanting us to help them out with some part, while the good paying jobs were sitting idle in the machines since we had to turn the machine off to walk outside. I remember my dad getting fed up with it and told me no more! LOL Those words stuck with me all these years, and I quickly learned why.
Last time I had to do this was in a very expensive & rare aluminum Porsche racing head. There was a bolt that had sheared flush - it took no time with a mig & an old nut... An impact wrench finished it off. As someone who restores cars & pretends to be a machinist, I've dealt with all kinds of rusted/seized bolts... An oldtimer trick that works wonders is heating up the bolt and melting a candle on it. Capillary action draws the molten wax in & makes your life easier. Oh, and as someone else said, OA (plus an impact wrench) is your friend, that wimpy propane torch doesn't really work.
Hi Tom, I am not sure if rust explains the sticky bolt, it might be deformed metal grain sticking between both parts. In case rust is the problem, I agree with the comments reagrding overheating with electric or hotter torch. Rust (iron combined with oxygen) releases the oxygen bond at temperatures lower than iron melting and requireing less volume maybe helping for more clearance between the parts. Just a thought! Luck!
Hi Tom, having already a nut, could your impact pneumatic/electric wrench at a very low impact setting and after a long exposure start loosening it up?
Ahh. I hate movies that end with a cliffhanger. Lol. Great video. Talk about putting the tool to the test. At first i was dissapointed when it broke. But after seeing how stubborn that stud is, im kinda impressed with that extractor.
I had a similar problem in an engine block. Twisted off a bolt, then an extractor. Fixed it using a die grinder with a carbide rotary rasp/file to grind the broken bolt (and extractor) out to where i could just see the threads, then picked the remnants of thread with a metal pick. Took me about 3 hours then I finally got it out and cleaned it up with a tap. PITA. Also when it comes to loosening bolts with heat, I find you need to get it red hot. Try oxy acetylene.
I'm sitting here watching the video and I finally say at the end... "that bolt is whooping your ass", then you immediately followed "Man this thing is kicking my ass!". :D
Tom, After you hacksawed the stud off, would using a carbide masonry bit, instead of a "normal" twist drill, have made opening things up easier? Eli D.
Hey ELi, The point geometry of a masonry drill is not good for metal cutting. They are designed for percussive applications not shearing metal. Thanks for the comment. Cheers, Tom
Re-writing an old Christmas song.... Laughing all the way!!! I don't miss working on cars.... Soon as I saw those Snap Off Not So Easy Outs I knew where this was going.... I was so proud of myself when I bought those... The Snap It Off in your Butt dealer hyped them as working every time... I found them to break every time...
Hi Graham, Thanks for the note and comment. The juice is cutting oil. Probably Kling light thread cutting oil or Relton rapid tap. I did a video called Toms .02 on oils and cutting fluids. I go into some detail in that video. Cheers, Tom
One of the best and most honest feeling vids on the youtube so far, I'm betting on you mr Wizard! Impressive that the donor got the first three studs out before giving up.. Seasons greetings btw..
just from the audio I knew I was NOT watching a car guy attack that "busted off" stud as my ears were not bleeding and or my headphones were not being melted off my head thanks for something fun to watch, Oh and no fire engines being called too
To get the first extractor out after boring with the 1/8" endmill, try filling the cavity with oil and putting a half inch long 1/8 drill blank in the hole and hitting it with a hammer. You have about a 4 to 1 area advantage, so the oil pressure should blow the extractor out of the stud.
Cut the stud off, approx 1/4" above the flange face, and weld a short bolt onto it. You now have a nice hex head for removal and the heat from the weld helps break it free.
Thats how I do it, but when dealing with exhaust they always seem to have hardned/get brittle with the heat over time. Sometimes I weld and break 15 nuts on a stud, but they usually come out. Eventually. Love the vids Tom. I'm creeping your channel and re-watching for the 10th time lol. Hopefully you have time to put out more soon!
I am a car guy that runs an automotive machine shop, not sure what category that puts me into.. The length of thread engagement in the casting is in inverse proportion to how quickly you want to get the broken stub out of the manifold. I do not think I have ever seen an automotive engine stud that wasn't a minimum grade 8, say 150,000 to 180,000 psi tensile. Some are even harder. You do realize that most car guys would never have used a center punch when they started drilling, or cutting oil, right? Really enjoy all you do. Marc
Forgot to mention.. Heating the casting before driving in the extractor allows the extractor to draw some of the heat out of the broken stub, making it shrink ever so slightly and helping to release it's grip on the casting. At least that is what I tell my self every time I try this anymore...
v8packard Hey Marc, Keep talking to yourself. It works for me. I was surprised at how much was buried in the manifold myself. Thanks for the comment. Cheers, Tom
This was such a delicate operation in such a hi-tek environment that not many can possess, yet the job must still be done! A lot of hospitals could envy you for a setup like you have... ;) :) Since you had it set up in the miller, to drill out the broken extractor, you could have drill out the stud more to make it fatigue to push in the top of it with the center punch to loosen it up in the presence of lubricant, like SRC/WD-40, or drops of diesel is fine also. That is what I would have done B4 using the extractor. Further, you pounded the extractor in very hard that made the stud more wedged in, especially without using THIN lubricant that is a numero-uno thing to grab in a situation like this, it can do more wonders than you think. The main thing is that you got it out in the end, eh?
PB BLaster (or what-not), heat and hammering (hard) on the end of the extractor bit all at the same time does it for me. I removed 12 - 3/4 studs from a mis-aligned turret on a W&S 2SC lathe that were rusted in place for 25 years using that routine. Great video my man.
Tom, I think the double nut on the extractor is for 2 wrenches, 180d apart. Like a T handle, less likely to snap the extractor due to side force.. Randy
Currently at work I'm in the middle of trying to get a broken 14mm stud/bolt out of a NEW tractor transmission/differential housing. Heat is out of the question because of it being new. It was broken off jagged! I managed to get a hole drilled in it a bit off center. I think I'll just work with a small drill bit and drill it in half and cut it out of there. I've built/set up around 6 of these and this is the only one that I've found a broken fastener on. Looks like it was just over stressed on assembly. I'll use extractors if I know the bolt was sheared off or if I can use the blue tipped wrench and soften things up a bit. If it's twisted off from attempts of removing it, no way is a smaller diameter tool will give the same or greater torque as the broken bolt did?
Hey Dan, You have to try something. Is there any above the surface to work with? In a new assembly there is probably some kind of thread lock compound on it. Heat will help break that down some. Best of luck to you. Cheers, Tom
Should you be able to put another combination wrench opposing the bottom wrench on the top nut of the extractor to prevent eccentrically loading it and snapping off the fluted insert? Also couldn't you just mill out the stud hole old threads, stud and all and retrofit the hole with a helicoil insert?
When you demonstrated that extractor in a previous video, I figured that someone finally made one that worked! Now I'm sad to see that wasn't necessarily the case. I gave up on extractors a long time ago when I was playing with old salt water boats. (Everything is frozen solid on them) My technique is a little unorthodox but it works for me. I would continue drilling that out until I got close to the thread minor diameter. Then I would Chuck a short length of chain saw sharpening file in the drill and work it around the hole until I can see the breaks for the threads all the way around the hole. Then I pull the thread out and run run a chasing tap in the hole. I can spend 45 minutes on one broken bolt doing it this way, but I usually save the thread. I bought a mill about 6 months ago so maybe I will improve my technique.
Now that's a real test to the effectiveness of that set of extractors. I had to laugh when you broke off the tool, but felt a kinship afterward. Maybe torching the casting to red before twisting the wrench. HO HO HO!
Hey Craig, You never can tell what folks want to see. They apparently want to see me struggle with a manifold stud. Thanks for the comment. Cheers, Tom
oxtoolco Sure, maybe it's a little bit of joy from the misery of others but when it goes easily what do you learn. The big dogs show their size when things go pear shaped. I bet most people watching are here for "EVERY TRICK in the BOOK".
There is more suspense here than an episode of "24", I hope we don't have to wait a week for the next chapter. BTW, my wife can't believe I just watched a 33 minute screw extraction video, that is to be continued.
I remove alot of Bolts being a mechanic, honestly these flute type are very good, however I find using a spanner on them or ratchet pulls the bar inside left and right and causes it to snap, the best way I've found to remove them is use a small impact gun and start off with just let the gun vibrate first and not actually turn (use the hammer inside) then to pulse the gun and 9 times out of 10 it'll remove it without a problem, while the spanner would snap it.. :) give it a whirl, Great video :D you earned another Sub :)
Have the same set and never had a problem with it now the other type ez-out actually expands the hole when it’s in but I’ve been using that same set for 15 plus years now
Great example of "The more you Chew the bigger it gets". I have had a few of those myself. Usually end up with the drill bit getting off center and eating everything but the bolt. Waiting for Part 2 so hurry up :D
Hey Ron, Thanks for the comment. Many commenters missed the fact that this was a test of the extractor and not a video on how to get the bolt out. Cheers, Tom
I was grunting right along with you (noticed my abdomen tightening up during those last few tugs). Amazing that the screw extractor snapped. The material looks to be cast. Can you tell us why it snapped - and why a much harder metal is not used for this tool? (newbie here, so be gentle). Thoughts: 1. Although not the original design of the manifold, it seems reasonable that one could drill all the way through and then pass the extractor all the way through, also. This converts it into a shaft. Then apply torque (equally) at both ends of the shaft, which might avoid snapping and give you more torque? 2. Perhaps there is far too much material left of the original stud? Plus, when driving the extractor into the stud material, surely it pushes what's left of the stud even tighter against the threads, making the job more difficult. Consider drilling a larger hole and using a larger diameter extractor, maybe 2mm or so less than the inside thread diameter of the stud? This might weaken the wall considerably and allow extraction. 3. And then, if all else fails, would you consider drilling the whole thing out, re-tapping, and using a helicoil insert here? 4. Never used an extractor before... how do you get the remnants off the extractor shaft? /mark richards
Hi Mark, Check out part two of this short painful series. The extractor snapped due to operator error. Should have used two wrenches to balance the load. I don't feel that any extractor would have worked on this stud. The best method would have been to use the part that I sawed off to rotate the stud while the manifold was red hot again. Barring this drilling and helicoil is the next best option where speed is important. Thanks for the comment. Cheers, Tom
know this vid is old , but something most people over look when drilling a stud and hammering in the extraction tool , it pretty much expands the stud and jambs it in there even tighter .
I like to heat up with a blow torch and add a little bit of wax. The wax draws into the threads and acts like a lubricant. Also Mig welding a nut to broken off bolts with wax does wonders too.
I know it's an old video but I think that stud was hardened at the end simply due to heat cycling. Regularly, turbocharger turbine housings can reach temperatures of 900°F+ and steel starts to harden at 725°F. I think that the root of the stud has more thermal mass to absorb heat than the head of the stud, so the end of the studardened but the core didn't. Just my opinion
I haven't read the 337 (!) comments yet, but as soon as you said "turbo" I knew you were in for a fight. That manifold gets red hot every time the engine is under a heavy load. The stud is probably some exotic metal like Stellite or Inconel. Heavy truck and equipment mechanics deal with this regularly. I could not help myself from laughing my ass off watching the video, but also feeling really sorry for you at the same time. You bit off a tough one this time, can't wait to watch part 2.
Hey Bob, Thanks for the sympathy. I think I backed myself into the corner on this one for your viewing fun. Inconel sounds about right to me. The stud is barely magnetic and fairly hard. Thanks for the comment. Cheers, Tom
boy that video brought back memories. i tried a those snapon easy outs many years ago. the first thing you find out is if the stud wont move how the heck can i get the easy out out ? at least with the old style spiral type, a quick twist to the right and it comes out.then continue with plan B?.an old timer once told me that easy outs are only good for bolts you break during installation.i cant wait to see the sequel .
Tom - You should have named this one the "Tom Torture test" lol. Great persistence man, Can't wait to see what happens in round 2. Thanks for all your great videos.
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Hey Tom,
If my calculations are correct you just burned through about $200 in carbide end mills, a perfectly good brand new extractor stud, and half an afternoon of your valuable time on a junk yard scrap manifold all for a few hash comments on a tool review! I got to say, YOUR THE MAN! Looking forward to round two buddy!
Thanks man,
Ray
Hey Ray,
Nothing is too much for my fans. Stay tuned for round two. Thanks for the comment.
Cheers,
Tom
Hay Tom. After twisting wrenches for forty plus years I have decided there is no such thing as an "easy out" or "screw extractor" I've been using the method mentioned previously of welding a nut with a washer as a spacer between nut and the object, I have used this method on heavy equipment on bolts from one inch down to a quarter inch with 99% success.
The theory is when you weld the nut on the heat from the welding heats the broken piece up which then expands, it cant expand sideways so it has to expand along its length then as it cools and shrinks it loosens just enough that you can screw it out. Some times it takes a couple of tries but most always works.
Please keep the videos coming, I've learned more about machining from your and the other machinist videos in the last few months than I ever thought possible.
Hey Weldor,
Thanks for the comment. I wanted to torture test the extractors for you guys. You are certainly getting your moneys worth.
Cheers,
Tom
Amateurs believe that these things never happen to professionals. It is encouraging for us to see that sometimes even professionals struggle. :)
Thanks for the video. Looking forward to see round 2.
Mehmet
Hi Mehmet,
You are correct. The struggle is part of the fun sometimes. Having to use all your tricks and superpowers is fun. Thanks for the comment.
Cheers,
Tom
I have a been a diesel tech for more than 10 years now so I've seen my fair share of broken exhaust manifold and turbo studs. These extractors works ok when you drill to biggest diameter possible. But to me the best technique I find is still the washer and nut technique. You weld the washer to remaining stud first then weld the nut to the washer. Works best when using extraction weld rods but something you don't have all the space to move so I use the MIG. Extraction rods work good when the studs are broken inside the hole, you mount your stud out of the hole with tacks. Repeated heat helps.
Hey Max,
Thanks for the comment.
Cheers,
Tom
Max Power
Co Inc is how to read the rest of of this what do I do to read the rest of this answer
Tom, as an old car guy, I had to laugh so many times. Your vid is much better than the "it worked once" vids. More real world.
Now, real world is it in the engine bay with all kinds of stuff in the way and you need to use a right-angle drill to get in there while standing on a crate leaning over in an awkward angle and cant see.
For me, the big blue O/A wrench is the only way you'll get it out. "If it ain't glowin', it aint coming out."
My choice is drilling up to the thread minor diameter then using a tap to clean the junk out.
People complain about the cost to have someone do it. They don't know the pile of expensive carbide, cobalt and broken special tools you are left with. ;)
Ok, I see and EDM machine added to your wish list.
Keep up the great vids.
You forgot to add that it's a 37 degree F day, just cold enough to be extremely uncomfortable, but just warm enough for icy water to be dripping on you while you're under there working.
Victor Stanwick Here in GA its more likely 96 degrees with 100% humidity. Then trying to drill with sweat dripping into your eyes and glasses. ;)
Oh, the stud will also never come loose unless you have slammed you hand against something sharp first. They want to see blood.
Looking forward to part 2. I want to see the victory miner dance ;)
Scott Henion And the customer is watching over your shoulder. :)
Scott Henion Ah, yes... the skin & blood tax must be paid when one does mechanical work...
You're probably going to get a million suggestions about what to do next, so I will give you one or two more to consider. I work as a millwright and have run across my share of broken off bolts. I think there are two types of scenarios you run into. Bolts that have been sheared or otherwise broken off, but aren't necessarily so stuck in the hole and bolts that broke off as they were trying to be removed. The latter ones are the tough ones and that's what it looks like you have here. I haven't had much luck with 'easy outs', especially on the smaller bolts. I think when you pound them in you expand the bolt and it almost makes them tighter. The best luck I've had is with welding a nut on top of the broken bolt. The heat from the welding process is a big help here too I think. If the bolt or stud is recessed, then a good welder can build a post or else a pipe nipple or similar thing can be shoved in the hole and welded on. Anyways, just my thoughts, good luck.
Hi Etienne,
Thanks for the suggestion. I don't think I could have got much weld on the stud as short as I cut it off. Maybe we will get another manifold and try some other methods. Thanks for the comment.
Cheers,
Tom
Hey Tom, a big thumbs up for this one. It's validation for all of us who've lost the battle, but eventually won the war. Alway great to see how a professional approaches the problem.
Merry Christmas!
Hey Bill,
Its the journey that is the fun. Not the individual stops necessarily. Thanks for the comment.
Cheers,
Tom
Thanks for creating this project for us viewers. I always admire a man who doesn't have enough problems that he is willing to make new ones strictly to learn from them! lol I think when that extractor snapped I would have gone for trying to weld a nut to it. Beyond that get your welders/cutting torch over there and put some heat in that thing! if you can't see it glow its not hot enough yet!! That manifold probably had 1500deg exhaust running through it for years lots of heat can only be your friend!
Hey Brian,
The gloves are coming off in round two. Thanks for the comment.
Cheers,
Tom
YIKES.....watching this was like reliving my past (and probably my future)....started to get sick to my stomach, headache, kicked the dog, yelled at the kids, phoned a friend to commiserate and then do what I always do in this situation, make a cocktail!!!
Best of luck in part 2!!!!
Hey Chuck,
When machinists have bad dreams this is what they look like. Thanks for the comment.
Cheers,
Tom
Being a truck mechanic I have taken my share of broken exhaust studs drilling has always been my last thing I will do but if I drill I always use left hand drill bits as somethings the drill will catch and unscrew the broken bolt. My preferred method is extraction welding rod and a larger nut. As always great video Tom!
Hey Johnny,
Might need another manifold to test some of the suggestions. Thanks for the comment.
Cheers,
Tom
Well Tom I have been down that road, sometimes the manifold is cheeper to replace than the labour to extract the stud or bolt. Cat engines are some of the worst to get out, the studs taper at the end and they wedge them selves in the holes of the cylinder heads, havent had to change a head yet.
Couldn't help but grin from time to time. I've been on both ends of this type of situation. Thank you for sharing! It's good to see the thought process as well as the actual "fix".
Best wishes,
Tom Z
I love watching my mentors struggle through the same shit I've done time and time again. It makes me feel I'm not such an idiot.
As a vehicle technician, this is a good representation of our struggle. I'm young and I still got much to learn, but my teacher told me that when bolts or nuts are stuck, heat them to a cherry red. It solved most, but not all, of my problems.
Some times I had to drill and tap out the broken off bolts by hand.
I thank you for this video. It's both entertaining and educational.
Hi Daniel,
Tell your teacher they are really smart. You guys have to make money doing this stuff I don't. Thanks for the comment.
Cheers,
Tom
As a mechanic, I don't even mess with extractors anymore. Sometimes they work for broken brass fittings, but I haven't found an extractor that won't break more often than not. What I usually end up doing is drilling through as big as possible with a drill making sure not to damage the threads. Then I get my little mini angle die grinder with an 1/8th inch arbor, and hog out the inside diameter of the broke bolt until the threads just barely show. Then you can peel the threads out one at a time. Run a tap through to clean the threads up and done. Broken extractors are more of a pain than using the die grinder.
Nathan Wilson Hi Nathan,
For the really tough stuff I have to agree. Thanks for the comment.
Cheers,
Tom
Don’t let it win ‘Mr. Wizard.’ I can hardly wait to turn the page on this-one. Real-life problems that do confound us all! As always, thanks’ for taking the time to make this video! And I support this site. ~M~
What I've found with any form of screw extraction, is that if the bolt broke, then the smaller diameter extractor probably will too. So I usually just jump straight to drilling and tapping it out to avoid having to drill out HSS.
Good video on showing an average day in screw extracting. :)
Reminds me of my stuck stud in the upper case... Thanks again for your help on that. Looking forward to round 2.
As a former car guy, when I purchased this extractor set 20 years ago my tool guy warned me about using these on blind holes. A tapered twist extractor can be removed if one sees the broken fastener wont budge by turning the other direction. When these break it makes for a real mess as you have found out.
Kudos, Tom. Very few have he courage and self confidence to take on the unknown live on camera. That was frustrating, and the only point was to cater to viewers. Not fun, but very instructional for amateur mechanics like me. Thank you. Any of your fans who laughed are jerks. I really like that extraction system that has no taper on the extractor. I think I’ll get a set.
? use 2 wrenches 180 degrees apart to prevent tweaking the extractor?
Dohhhh, Can't find the instructions now. This is much more fun anyway right? Thanks for the comment.
Cheers,
Tom
Those kinds of screw extractors always break anyway. Either the "splined shaft" breaks or you strip the "spline" right off the sucker. I've always had more luck hammering a Torx socket in.
That's great advice. I learned that lesson the hard way.
If there is a more demoralizing event in life than a broken bit in the hole, I don't know what it is. I admire your stamina. I have to admit that when you broke that bit I laughed my head off mostly because --been there done that. Great vid.
Hey Tommie,
Glad you like the show. You will get more laughs in round two. Thanks for the comment.
Cheers,
Tom
Holy mothering Christmas extraction.
Tom has dug a hole, let's all comment with nothing but positive recommendations as to how to git out of this sucker
Great stuff Tom, very enjoyable.... good luck
Hey Kelly,
Thanks for cheer leading this one. See you in round two.
All the best,
Tom
I enjoy all your videos, but this one made my day.
When you were twisting on the extractor there at the end, I was hoping for a second SNAP, just to see a good candid reaction. Sick, I know. :)
Brent
Hey Brent,
Glad I put a smile on your face. I was grinning too. I should set up two cameras for this one. Thanks for the comment.
Cheers,
Tom
Hi Tom
Loved the video, can't wait to see the finally. I recently bought a cheap made-in-china set of those extractors to try on my next foul up, and glad to see where there limits are. My usual method is to drill to the minor diameter and pick or tap out the remaining.
I gratly enjoy your videos as they have opened up possibilities to methods of work and projects I never thought was possible.
Hi Tom! I follow the Keiths and Adam (and you) almost daily. One quibble: There are "car guys" and then there are other "car guys". I'm one of the "other" car guys. I'm also a Mechanical Engineer and made straight "A" in Machine Shop when the instructor was a crusty old ex-Navy Machinist.
A "real" car guy would have double nutted that stud, used Kroil (like you did, love that stuff), let it sit and warmed it up.
I also build engines for myself and friends, and my Granddad was a Machinist for Lockheed (then Bell Aircraft) and built B29s.
One time I found myself under a friend's Dodge van with a broken shift linkage. The outer threaded part of the 1-2 fork had broken off. I hand drilled the thing and tapped it (while laying on my back) and put a grade-8 bolt in. Then I realized the rain dripping off the van was freezing...
BTW I don't claim to be a Machinist. Just a wannabe...
I would give my left, um, eyebrow to have a shop...
;)
Hey Phil,
It just goes to show I'm a phony car guy. I'll let you in on a secret. I don't even change my own oil. Pretty bad huh? Thanks for the comment.
Cheers,
Tom
WOW that was great! Brought back some memories.... Looking forward to part 2 and 3 and 4.:-0) Bet ya John Mills is laughing
Hey Jim,
Sorry to disappoint. Only a two part series. I'm sure John would have had some choice words for this one. Thanks for the comment.
Cheers,
Tom
Never :-0) Just poking fun. You do a great job! Merry Christmas!
I learned early on in my decades of machine shop experiences that it was going to be a piece that was headed to the shop with the EDM. For $60 the broken off whatever would be out and I would be having a cup of coffee. Love your video's, thanks for sharing, and putting in all the effort. Very Merry Christmas to you.
ELECTRIC DISCHARGE MACHINING (EDM) is the only fast and efficient way of removing broken tools like taps, drills, and fasteners. Most commonly EDM effectively removes broken bolts, broken drills, broken sparkplugs, broken ez outs, and broken taps.
Hey Tfp,
The car guys would be howling. How can you get your EDM machine under the car with all that snow on the ground. Thanks for the comment.
Cheers,
Tom
I've just recently started enjoying your vids. One day I might just have to do a response out of my own shop...
I think what you needed was a can of freeze-spray, found at your local electronics supplier. First you apply the heat, then you freeze the extractor and the remainder of the stuck bolt. This technique worked like a charm on a steel freeze plug (Marine = Brass) in the head of a seawater cooled engine (351 WIndsor). Whoever put that together was, well... I won't go there, but the extraction technique worked like a charm. I did use a 4' piece of 3/4" galvie pipe with a 1/2" socket extension welded to the middle of it as a wrench. The socket extension fit the I.D. of the plug perfectly, making stripping it nearly impossible... Of course the heads were still on the engine in the boat, making this a Mission Impossible sort of thing... sort'a like the mechanic under the car...
step4560 Hey Step,
The only thing worse than laying in the mud under a car is swishing about in the bilge of a boat with stinky oily seawater soaking your clothes. Thanks for the comment.
Cheers,
Tom
Hey Tom. Have you ever seen or heard of the candle trick? Heat the whole area to cherry red then hold a candle on it till it cools enough that the candle stops melting. Then let the part cool to room temp and try to turn the broken piece out. The Idea is that the wax will wick into the threads and act as a lubricant. I dont know if thats what is actually happening or if its just the heating and cooling that breaks it loose. I have had mixed success with it but never the less there is always a candle in my tool box just in case.
Hey Dan,
I have heard of the candle trick. Need to find another manifold to try it out on. Thanks for the comment.
Cheers,
Tom
I have had those extractors for years. The box they come in is used to support the EZouts that I use that actually work. I gave them an honest try several times.
Hello Tom,
Just watched the video but had to stop when the the extractor went 'ping', I was laughing so much!
Reminded me of the first and ONLY time I used one of those LH screw extractors on my Honda bike exhaust stud.
It went ping as well.
These 'extractors' are the devils invention.
I now use LH or RH carbide drill bits.
That 'ping' of mine taught me a lesson I have never forgotten.
Seasons wishes to you and followers.
Geoff
From UK, not VA
Hey Geoff,
We certainly found the outer limits of these snap off extractors. Thanks for the comment.
Cheers,
Tom
The nut adapter in that kit is double tall allowing the use of two wrenches (similar to a tap wrench), reducing the side loading of the splined extractor..
exhaust studs,are heat cycled so many times that they get really hard. that's why the're so much fun to change.
some vehicles break studs just because of the way the exhaust mounts and puts load on the studs as the engine vibrates.
Hey Rod,
Thanks for the comment.
Cheers,
Tom
The high tensile stud allows specs to be maintained at high temps and keep a tighter clamp force . Head gaskets on turbo or super charged vehicles also have the harder botls .
I know this was only a demonstration on using a screw extractor kit to remove a broken stud, but it's a great video showing why screw extractors and or easy-outs seldom work. If the bolt is in a housing so tight that it won't back out on it's own without breaking, a hardened and brittle extractor is sure to break off. And driving an extractor or easy-out down into a drilled out bolt just wedges the bolt in even tighter. Easy-out = it ain't easy and it won't come out. Some heat from a good hot torch, some of that Kroil oil he had on the bench and a pair of vice-grips would have that broken bolt out in 5 minutes.
An exhaust manifold is a classic son of a bitch! Bravo for throwing that up as a test.
Hey James,
Thanks for the support. I think I'm going to need it. This thing is spawn of satan.
All the best,
Tom
oxtoolco Hey Tom, I'd try turning that extractor with a deep socket if you can, that box end really seems to be side loading it, kept waiting for it to snap again. A socket might be a little more forgiving, or if nothing else, contain the flying fragments if it breaks again! Good luck and Merry Christmas!
Tom, I have those extractors. Personally I think I wasted my money they are very brittle.
Anthony Bonaviso Hey Tony,
I think I agree with that. Stay tuned for round two of the slugfest.
Cheers,
Tom
Tom,
I like the upside down clamping in the mill. What a great idea. Never would have thought of it
Hey Eric,
Desperate jobs require desperate ideas. I think the stud is something special. Its barely magnetic and fairly hard but not super hard. Thanks for the comment.
Cheers,
Tom
Tom Good to see you having a go with those wonderful extractors. Welcome again to my "Getter Out World" (notwithstanding the many you have taken out I'm sure).
Lets step back into my classroom: One: most of the automotive studs are metric 10.9 or 12.9 MPA extra high tensile strength (similar to allen screws). Two: Always drill all the way through (as you did). Three: DONT drive the extractor in very far! go about 1D or so. If it works it will remove the stud, if it doesn't the extractor can be removed easily. Four: Use "freeze it" to shrink the stud. Five: DON'T wobble the drill. Six: DON'T wobble the spanner. Seven: Keep the spanner and the driver nut as close to the surface as possible. Eight: Drill to the maximum extractor diameter that you can. Nine: Exhaust studs can at times "weld themselves in" and become part of the parent metal (Caterpillar is a fine example because of the extreme heat they work at compared to many other brands) and generally the turbo is another area where we see that a lot. Ten: When the manifold is the problem I do all the work in the Mill, gives good control. Eleven: If the extractor turns in the stud after you have done all that, cut your losses, drill the stud out and fit a coil, don't waste your time. Twelve Cut/or grind the stud down to as close to the casting face as you can (reduce the amount of drilling depth required.
I do one or two manifold holding studs on the blocks in situe on tractor trucks or cars or machines a week, leaning under the hood sometimes with mirrors and all sorts of other systems, at times up to 10 studs on one motor. Then your faced with the added problem of steady accurate drilling, arthritic wrists etc. Any chance to put the patient on the Mill has to take priority. About half the studs have to be drilled out completely, some come out with the lefty, and 30-40% with the extractors.
Add to that in most cases there are too many peripherals that are strategically placed on the motors (aluminium air con pipes, fuel lines, sensors and their umbilical cords etc. that applying heat is not an option). Add to that as well, in lots of cases someone has "had a go" and left a broken tap or ezi out in the stud, and in most cases "off centre" or "skew"
Yes Tom I have probably broken about 15 ezi outs over the years and I also have a few that I have shortened. If you refrain from driving them in too far then you have a fire escape. The extractors like drill bits are consumables in my eyes, and the bonus with those kits is that you can get singular replacements.
My wife loves your sound effects (Grunt - Groan - Moan).
Ps Have a great Holiday, and a safe New Year.
Hey Bruce,
Thanks for the pro pointers. I don't think I want to take the advanced getter out classes. As soon as you mention laying underneath something or working under the hood I'm off. Gent Harris mentioned driving the extractor partially in then wiggling it out several times to leave a backdoor to getting the extractor out. I was expecting the extractor to wind up instead of fracturing like it did. I'm looking around for another manifold to try some of the other techniques and suggestions folks like you sent it.
Happy holidays to you and yours! Hope you don't get any emergency calls for getter out over the holidays.
Cheers,
Tom
90s toyota...
seeing that stud extractor break sent a shiver in my spine...man that thing is a nightmare
nothing sweeter than having a harder material stuck in the middle of the thing....brings alot of memories ,,,
Hey Tom, a second wrench on that slip on fitting might prevent the extractor from breaking and give you a little better leverage, just a thought good luck.
Hey Randy,
If I didn't toss out the instructions I might have had the same Idea. Thanks for the comment.
Cheers,
Tom
Tom, I've been in your shoes several times while repairing aircraft stuff out on the ramp with cold, snow and a mean foreman on my back to get it done before the morning flight. Your bulldog tenacity lets me know the flight would have been on time!
Cheers and Merry Christmas
Gene
Hey Gene,
The gloves are coming off for round two. Thanks for the comment.
Cheers,
Tom
WHEN YOU SEE PEOPLE DRILLING LIKE YOU THEY NEVER OIL THE DRILL BIT.IT JUST HELPS AN PROLONGS THE LIFE OF THE DRILL BIT .MAKING LIFE BETTER .NICE VIDEO
I find this really therapeutic for some reason.
Thanks for the video Tom. I've been in the automotive industry for 30+ years and have snapped off my fair share of not so easy outs and no you didn't hurt my feelings at all. lol
keep making your video's I love the hell out of them.
+darin spicer Hey Darin,
Thanks for the words of encouragement.
Cheers,
Tom
Hi Tom,i have this extractor set as well,from my experience they are not great on applications where the stud is seized solid,they just snap easily.But i found them to be the best extractors when removing seized/snapped glow plugs from cylinder heads.Regards Ivan
Hi Ivan,
I have to agree with you on that one. This stud is basically welded in. Thanks for the comment.
Cheers,
Tom
Best penetrating oil is automatic transmission fluid mixed with equal parts acetone. This stuff works wonderfully well.
+CNC Newbie Old school workshop recipe there man, heard it myself off some old stock once. Really a top tip.
+zero_sum It's so simple but works so good! Thanks for the positive comment!
Great video! Yeah, you need to mount the vice under the table where it's hard to get to and even harder to see. Lol. Been down this road before!! It can be tricky drilling center when the bolt is flush like that. The end of the threads make the center mark look off center.
I worked for a ford truck dealer and had a Toyota pickup that I used for off-road fun. For reasons I don't understand, ford exhaust studs and bolts almost always break off and give you a fit. And some how all of the 1982-1989 Toyotas that I have had rarely had that problem??? Maybe something to do with the hardness. You found a good one there tho! Lol. Another trick that I have had some success with is taping around the outside with a hammer to help loosen the rust or corrosion. I have even used an air hammer with a blunt end bit. You know your getting somewhere when you start seeing the rusty cloud leaking out. You know, it's the "get a bigger hammer" method! Lol. Good luck! Looking forward to part two through..... Lol.
Merry Christmas Tom! I was waiting to see that baby pop out, not like it was a dry birth! LOL You know I follow suit with needing to remove and bring into shop, mostly so all the chips, swarf and rust is guaranteed not to get where it's not suppose to go! We all want to give them the best job and that is how we do it, by mounting it in the machine or any of the shop tricks we can pull off in our shop environment. I'm glad to have taken the time to stop by and catch your video! ;{)-----
I LIKE YOUR SEMI-COLON-BRACKET-BRACKET--------- (BEARD)...oh yeah, and a very merry Christmas to you as well !
Hey Keith,
I'm glad you caught this one. Its a real winner. There is a part two coming out soon. Watch me get my ass handed to me with wrapping paper. Thanks for the comment.
Cheers,
Tom
Keith, no mechanic in his right mind would even start the job like that, without first blocking off the passages that can lead to disasters. We do carry a sense of where things belong and where they don't. I know I'm just a lowly mechanic, machinist, and I know you don't like mechanics, but hey, we do the best job we can, given the circumstances we work in. }[:)
I don't think I ever expressed that I didn't like mechanics, in my whole life, there have been a few that made me shake my head. I was a mechanic before the yards and an outside machinist for, four or five years before becoming an inside machinist. I have had to block off with hard flanges and coffer dams and plugs, red eyes etc. just personally feel that 100% debrief free is a greater possibility disassembled and on the machine, not that it is affordable and the demo that Tom is giving and the sharing of every possible trick in the book, or everybody book sometimes isn't going to keep things from going sour, but there is that better chance that any of the mechanics or machinist tricks would of worked the first time if the extra removal, put the part on the bench in front of performing their magic. ;{)-----
Keith Fenner Sorry Keith,maybe I take too much pride in the trades I practice.{:})
This video's getting me frustrated and I'm just watching! Great comments too, as fun as the video. I was actually saying 'snap' right as the extractor snapped! Hate when that happens. Great videos, keep up the good work.
What an ass kicking! Man, time time for a snack after watching that one. They picked a good one for you Tom. You sure they didn't weld that sucker in there? LOL
Good prime example on how a seemingly simple job can turn into a headache. Good thing we don't have to work on this stuff out in the driveway Tom. I think it's time to forget the extractors, and let the carbide endmills do the talking.
Cool video, thanks for sharing. Will be looking for round 2.
Adam
Hey Adam,
You got that right. The gloves are coming off in round two. I like your saying. Not popping the hood, not laying under anything, no tools are going outside and I will not be rushed. Thanks for stopping by and watching me flop around.
Talk to you soon.
Tom
I thought the exact same thing while watching it Adam, as my boyfriend would say "shit grew arms and legs" haha. What a royal pain in the bum
Looking forward to next vid also :)
Kim
KimberlyBarnett123 Hello Kim,
Welcome back. Stopped by to see me get smacked down a few pegs?
Happy holidays,
Tom
Hey Tom,
Hope you're well :)
I'm normally looming in the background somewhere :) been super busy though so not been able to sit on TH-cam forever :(
Have a fab Christmas to you both :)
Kim
oxtoolco
That's how we had to do it Tom. Too much time is wasted screwing around outside with people wanting us to help them out with some part, while the good paying jobs were sitting idle in the machines since we had to turn the machine off to walk outside. I remember my dad getting fed up with it and told me no more! LOL Those words stuck with me all these years, and I quickly learned why.
Last time I had to do this was in a very expensive & rare aluminum Porsche racing head. There was a bolt that had sheared flush - it took no time with a mig & an old nut... An impact wrench finished it off.
As someone who restores cars & pretends to be a machinist, I've dealt with all kinds of rusted/seized bolts... An oldtimer trick that works wonders is heating up the bolt and melting a candle on it. Capillary action draws the molten wax in & makes your life easier.
Oh, and as someone else said, OA (plus an impact wrench) is your friend, that wimpy propane torch doesn't really work.
Hi Tom, I am not sure if rust explains the sticky bolt, it might be deformed metal grain sticking between both parts. In case rust is the problem, I agree with the comments reagrding overheating with electric or hotter torch. Rust (iron combined with oxygen) releases the oxygen bond at temperatures lower than iron melting and requireing less volume maybe helping for more clearance between the parts. Just a thought! Luck!
Hi Thomas,
We will see soon enough. Stay tuned for round two when the gloves come off. Thanks for the comment.
Cheers,
Tom
Hi Tom, having already a nut, could your impact pneumatic/electric wrench at a very low impact setting and after a long exposure start loosening it up?
Hey Thomas,
We would need another manifold to test that idea. Thanks for the comment.
Cheers,
Tom
im surprised you didnt heat it up
Ahh. I hate movies that end with a cliffhanger. Lol. Great video. Talk about putting the tool to the test. At first i was dissapointed when it broke. But after seeing how stubborn that stud is, im kinda impressed with that extractor.
I had a similar problem in an engine block. Twisted off a bolt, then an extractor. Fixed it using a die grinder with a carbide rotary rasp/file to grind the broken bolt (and extractor) out to where i could just see the threads, then picked the remnants of thread with a metal pick. Took me about 3 hours then I finally got it out and cleaned it up with a tap. PITA. Also when it comes to loosening bolts with heat, I find you need to get it red hot. Try oxy acetylene.
I'm sitting here watching the video and I finally say at the end... "that bolt is whooping your ass", then you immediately followed "Man this thing is kicking my ass!". :D
Tom,
After you hacksawed the stud off, would using a carbide masonry bit, instead of a "normal" twist drill, have made opening things up easier?
Eli D.
Hey ELi,
The point geometry of a masonry drill is not good for metal cutting. They are designed for percussive applications not shearing metal. Thanks for the comment.
Cheers,
Tom
Re-writing an old Christmas song.... Laughing all the way!!! I don't miss working on cars.... Soon as I saw those Snap Off Not So Easy Outs I knew where this was going.... I was so proud of myself when I bought those... The Snap It Off in your Butt dealer hyped them as working every time... I found them to break every time...
That is one tough cookie! Great example of what can go wrong when extracting a stuck bolt..
Juan De Nada Jr Hi Juan,
This one was a butt kicker. I think we found the limitations of the screw extractor. Thanks for the comment.
Cheers,
Tom
you now have a new apprentice from birmingham UK ! love your work man , what is the juice on the little brush please ?
graham
Hi Graham,
Thanks for the note and comment. The juice is cutting oil. Probably Kling light thread cutting oil or Relton rapid tap. I did a video called Toms .02 on oils and cutting fluids. I go into some detail in that video.
Cheers,
Tom
ok thanks bud
you have the best collection of vices around your shop
One of the best and most honest feeling vids on the youtube so far, I'm betting on you mr Wizard!
Impressive that the donor got the first three studs out before giving up..
Seasons greetings btw..
Hi Ugluk,
Thanks for the compliment. Its the little things that are nice to hear. Thanks for the comment.
Cheers,
Tom
just from the audio I knew I was NOT watching a car guy attack that "busted off" stud as my ears were not bleeding and or my headphones were not being melted off my head thanks for something fun to watch, Oh and no fire engines being called too
+drawvenmusket Hi Musket,
Thanks for the comment.
Cheers,
Tom
More suspenseful than anything that's come out of Hollywood lately!
Hey Jim,
Did you hide your head under the pillow? Thanks for the comment.
Cheers,
Tom
oxtoolco I did
To get the first extractor out after boring with the 1/8" endmill, try filling the cavity with oil and putting a half inch long 1/8 drill blank in the hole and hitting it with a hammer. You have about a 4 to 1 area advantage, so the oil pressure should blow the extractor out of the stud.
Cut the stud off, approx 1/4" above the flange face, and weld a short bolt onto it. You now have a nice hex head for removal and the heat from the weld helps break it free.
Thats how I do it, but when dealing with exhaust they always seem to have hardned/get brittle with the heat over time. Sometimes I weld and break 15 nuts on a stud, but they usually come out. Eventually. Love the vids Tom. I'm creeping your channel and re-watching for the 10th time lol. Hopefully you have time to put out more soon!
I am a car guy that runs an automotive machine shop, not sure what category that puts me into.. The length of thread engagement in the casting is in inverse proportion to how quickly you want to get the broken stub out of the manifold.
I do not think I have ever seen an automotive engine stud that wasn't a minimum grade 8, say 150,000 to 180,000 psi tensile. Some are even harder.
You do realize that most car guys would never have used a center punch when they started drilling, or cutting oil, right?
Really enjoy all you do.
Marc
Forgot to mention.. Heating the casting before driving in the extractor allows the extractor to draw some of the heat out of the broken stub, making it shrink ever so slightly and helping to release it's grip on the casting. At least that is what I tell my self every time I try this anymore...
v8packard Hey Marc,
Keep talking to yourself. It works for me. I was surprised at how much was buried in the manifold myself. Thanks for the comment.
Cheers,
Tom
At 16:10 My heart sunk ..!! OUCH.. I will keep watch'en Tom ..
This was such a delicate operation in such a hi-tek environment that not many can possess, yet the job must still be done! A lot of hospitals could envy you for a setup like you have... ;) :)
Since you had it set up in the miller, to drill out the broken extractor, you could have drill out the stud more to make it fatigue to push in the top of it with the center punch to loosen it up in the presence of lubricant, like SRC/WD-40, or drops of diesel is fine also. That is what I would have done B4 using the extractor. Further, you pounded the extractor in very hard that made the stud more wedged in, especially without using THIN lubricant that is a numero-uno thing to grab in a situation like this, it can do more wonders than you think. The main thing is that you got it out in the end, eh?
PB BLaster (or what-not), heat and hammering (hard) on the end of the extractor bit all at the same time does it for me. I removed 12 - 3/4 studs from a mis-aligned turret on a W&S 2SC lathe that were rusted in place for 25 years using that routine.
Great video my man.
davidryle Hi David,
Never tried the PB blaster. I have always been a Kroil man. Thanks for the comment.
Cheers,
Tom
davidryle PB plaster is wimpy....try Kroil!
Tom, I think the double nut on the extractor is for 2 wrenches, 180d apart. Like a T handle, less likely to snap the extractor due to side force..
Randy
Are you kidding me? That's one hard piece of metal but your patience is impressive. I'd be cussing and throwing tools by now. On to part two.
Currently at work I'm in the middle of trying to get a broken 14mm stud/bolt out of a NEW tractor transmission/differential housing. Heat is out of the question because of it being new. It was broken off jagged! I managed to get a hole drilled in it a bit off center. I think I'll just work with a small drill bit and drill it in half and cut it out of there.
I've built/set up around 6 of these and this is the only one that I've found a broken fastener on. Looks like it was just over stressed on assembly.
I'll use extractors if I know the bolt was sheared off or if I can use the blue tipped wrench and soften things up a bit. If it's twisted off from attempts of removing it, no way is a smaller diameter tool will give the same or greater torque as the broken bolt did?
Hey Dan,
You have to try something. Is there any above the surface to work with? In a new assembly there is probably some kind of thread lock compound on it. Heat will help break that down some. Best of luck to you.
Cheers,
Tom
What's the "juice" you're putting on when drilling?
hi tom as a retired motor mechanic been there done that got the tee shirt and busted nuckles .merry christmas to you and yours , dave in the uk.
Hey Dave,
Thanks for the comment.
Cheers,
Tom
Could the stud have become hard due to repeated heating and cooling? You mentioned a turbo so some added heat might have been in play.
Eric
Should you be able to put another combination wrench opposing the bottom wrench on the top nut of the extractor to prevent eccentrically loading it and snapping off the fluted insert?
Also couldn't you just mill out the stud hole old threads, stud and all and retrofit the hole with a helicoil insert?
Hey Eric,
Wait around for round two of the fight. More extractor action coming up. Thanks for the comment.
Cheers,
Tom
When you demonstrated that extractor in a previous video, I figured that someone finally made one that worked! Now I'm sad to see that wasn't necessarily the case. I gave up on extractors a long time ago when I was playing with old salt water boats. (Everything is frozen solid on them) My technique is a little unorthodox but it works for me. I would continue drilling that out until I got close to the thread minor diameter. Then I would Chuck a short length of chain saw sharpening file in the drill and work it around the hole until I can see the breaks for the threads all the way around the hole. Then I pull the thread out and run run a chasing tap in the hole. I can spend 45 minutes on one broken bolt doing it this way, but I usually save the thread. I bought a mill about 6 months ago so maybe I will improve my technique.
Hey Dog,
That is an interesting idea with the chain saw file. I'll have to try that on the next victim. Thanks for the comment.
Cheers,
Tom
Now that's a real test to the effectiveness of that set of extractors. I had to laugh when you broke off the tool, but felt a kinship afterward. Maybe torching the casting to red before twisting the wrench. HO HO HO!
Hey Marty,
Should we compare knuckle scars? I haven't given up just yet. Thanks for the comment.
Cheers,
Tom
Tom, wow...you're a super guy...you don't back away from anything! I'm looking for more fun, I can hardly wait.
....13
Maybe it’s just me but I like to install the hacksaw blade in reverse do it cuts on the pull. Is that valid? Seems to work better for me.
Tom everyone is definitely getting our money's worth in this one. Full value learning!
Hey Craig,
You never can tell what folks want to see. They apparently want to see me struggle with a manifold stud. Thanks for the comment.
Cheers,
Tom
oxtoolco Sure, maybe it's a little bit of joy from the misery of others but when it goes easily what do you learn. The big dogs show their size when things go pear shaped. I bet most people watching are here for "EVERY TRICK in the BOOK".
There is more suspense here than an episode of "24", I hope we don't have to wait a week for the next chapter. BTW, my wife can't believe I just watched a 33 minute screw extraction video, that is to be continued.
Jack Bower takes on the studly forces of evil trying to overthrow the United States. You won't have long to wait. Thanks for the comment.
Cheers,
Tom
I have that same vice, how did you make the custom handle? What is it made from?
I remove alot of Bolts being a mechanic, honestly these flute type are very good, however I find using a spanner on them or ratchet pulls the bar inside left and right and causes it to snap, the best way I've found to remove them is use a small impact gun and start off with just let the gun vibrate first and not actually turn (use the hammer inside) then to pulse the gun and 9 times out of 10 it'll remove it without a problem, while the spanner would snap it.. :) give it a whirl, Great video :D you earned another Sub :)
Sometimes it works and sometimes it doesn't. Persistence usually pays off lol. All the best and Marry Christmas to you and your family.
Have the same set and never had a problem with it now the other type ez-out actually expands the hole when it’s in but I’ve been using that same set for 15 plus years now
Great example of "The more you Chew the bigger it gets". I have had a few of those myself. Usually end up with the drill bit getting off center and eating everything but the bolt. Waiting for Part 2 so hurry up :D
Hey Carter,
I going to tease you guys with the second round. Thanks for the comment.
Cheers,
Tom
LOL! This was definitely a good test, thanks to Mr bozo & Murphys law for showing up on the scene; great video
Hey Ron,
Thanks for the comment. Many commenters missed the fact that this was a test of the extractor and not a video on how to get the bolt out.
Cheers,
Tom
A cement drill bit has got me through the hardest times more than once, again this only works for me.
I was grunting right along with you (noticed my abdomen tightening up during those last few tugs).
Amazing that the screw extractor snapped. The material looks to be cast. Can you tell us why it snapped - and why a much harder metal is not used for this tool? (newbie here, so be gentle).
Thoughts:
1. Although not the original design of the manifold, it seems reasonable that one could drill all the way through and then pass the extractor all the way through, also. This converts it into a shaft. Then apply torque (equally) at both ends of the shaft, which might avoid snapping and give you more torque?
2. Perhaps there is far too much material left of the original stud? Plus, when driving the extractor into the stud material, surely it pushes what's left of the stud even tighter against the threads, making the job more difficult. Consider drilling a larger hole and using a larger diameter extractor, maybe 2mm or so less than the inside thread diameter of the stud? This might weaken the wall considerably and allow extraction.
3. And then, if all else fails, would you consider drilling the whole thing out, re-tapping, and using a helicoil insert here?
4. Never used an extractor before... how do you get the remnants off the extractor shaft?
/mark richards
Hi Mark,
Check out part two of this short painful series. The extractor snapped due to operator error. Should have used two wrenches to balance the load. I don't feel that any extractor would have worked on this stud. The best method would have been to use the part that I sawed off to rotate the stud while the manifold was red hot again. Barring this drilling and helicoil is the next best option where speed is important. Thanks for the comment.
Cheers,
Tom
Sorry if this has been asked/answered already but what fluid or "juice" are you using for lubrication?
+Jo Simon Hi Jo,
Check out my video on toms two cents worth on oils and coolants. Thanks for the comment.
Cheers,
Tom
know this vid is old , but something most people over look when drilling a stud and hammering in the extraction tool , it pretty much expands the stud and jambs it in there even tighter .
I like to heat up with a blow torch and add a little bit of wax. The wax draws into the threads and acts like a lubricant. Also Mig welding a nut to broken off bolts with wax does wonders too.
I know it's an old video but I think that stud was hardened at the end simply due to heat cycling. Regularly, turbocharger turbine housings can reach temperatures of 900°F+ and steel starts to harden at 725°F. I think that the root of the stud has more thermal mass to absorb heat than the head of the stud, so the end of the studardened but the core didn't.
Just my opinion
It seems that if you had a couple of the extraction nuts and a deep well socket it may even out the tension on the extractor. Just a thought.
I haven't read the 337 (!) comments yet, but as soon as you said "turbo" I knew you were in for a fight. That manifold gets red hot every time the engine is under a heavy load. The stud is probably some exotic metal like Stellite or Inconel. Heavy truck and equipment mechanics deal with this regularly. I could not help myself from laughing my ass off watching the video, but also feeling really sorry for you at the same time. You bit off a tough one this time, can't wait to watch part 2.
Hey Bob,
Thanks for the sympathy. I think I backed myself into the corner on this one for your viewing fun. Inconel sounds about right to me. The stud is barely magnetic and fairly hard. Thanks for the comment.
Cheers,
Tom
boy that video brought back memories. i tried a those snapon easy outs many years ago. the first thing you find out is if the stud wont move how the heck can i get the easy out out ? at least with the old style spiral type, a quick twist to the right and it comes out.then continue with plan B?.an old timer once told me that easy outs are only good for bolts you break during installation.i cant wait to see the sequel .
Hey Larry,
Thanks for the comment. Part two is up now.
Cheers,
Tom
Tom - You should have named this one the "Tom Torture test" lol. Great persistence man, Can't wait to see what happens in round 2. Thanks for all your great videos.
Yeah this one was fun. I get a leg over on it in the next video. Thanks for the comment.
Cheers,
Tom