Always better to call the judge when something happens that could look shady. I'd rather snitch on myself than have my opponent think I'm trying to be unfair.
This is the thing everyone says but I'm not convinced it works. I played against a cheater at a GP once, comp REL, the works. And I called a judge, and this cheater guy apologized and showed the judge a picture of a baby and said, y'know, I'm a new father, I'm just so exhausted lately, I really thought I had delirium (to use the example from the podcast clip). and the judge said aww what a cute baby. and then here's the crazy part the cheater said, could I maybe just not get a warning here? and the judge said yeah sure, it's such a magical experience, parenthood. the kind of guy who's cheated over and over and over again is hugely advantaged against a random judge who doesn't know them. which is MORE LIKELY at a tournament. it's nuts.
Seriously, I’m always counting mana, cards in hand, cards in graveyards while I’m playing. Planning on how to cast my cards is like, a core part of the game strategy. And I just can’t wrap my head around a play style that would let an oversight like this happen
I was just in a 1k and for every minor nuance we called our judge to clarify. 20k on the line f--- it I guess traverse tutors then draws, brainstorm draws 4, 3 explores w/e lawless garbage
the cheater is Marc Tobiasch famous for being an egotistical rager. I watched the clip they are talking about but basically he traverses like he has delirium even tho he doesnt. I can't find it right now by googling.
At a prerelease, and FNM, or a draft event, this kind of thing can be an honest mistake, no big deal. At anything with competitive REL, no, call a judge, and maybe explicitly ask for a warning to be on the record. Having a warning isn't a big deal, it doesn't matter, except that it can help you remember not to make that mistake, and it'll help judges remember if you have a habit of misremembering rules in your favor.
I saw the one where he traversed for a cat while one short for delerium, opponent called it out and he had another traverse, so got the cat with the second one instead. Once is a little off but gameplay mistakes like that are pretty frequent. If the same thing happened a few times then it seems pretty cut and dried that he's doing it on purpose to gain an advantage.
It's why I quit judging and playing competitively. The judges are getting dumber with weaker spines. The cheating element has become brazen. Hella brazen. We have videos of multiple cheaters in the Atlanta area. Some aren't even competitively good, and yet, they still get to keep doing what they do while they keep neutering penalties for competitive and professional REL.
I get that you're talking about a tournament context where people should know better. But I play like this and I'd like to try and explain why. Playing with and against modern Magic cards makes me disassociate. I make these kind of oversights all the time, not because I'm trying to cheat, but because it's a defense mechanism that allows me to play bad cards that I like in EDH. Every new card on the battlefield is Chains of Mephistopheles and I can't deal with it. If I actually cared about the game I could not bear to put Kjeldoran Skycaptain onto the battlefield in a game of EDH. The hopeless rage it would engender would be too much. another aspect of this is that I'm playing this game for fun, being hyper vigilant during a game of Magic is not my idea of fun. You could literally have 3 lands in play on turn 2 and I would probably not notice. I'm just here to play with banding creatures and mass land destruction in accordance with Richard Garfield"s original vision.
Projecting your Craw Wurm tier EDH play style and difficulty processing moderately complex information onto top level professional constructed players is laughable to say the least.
Why play the game if you don't want to pay attention? I maybe get the disassociation because Magic is complex, and many mechanics are just too annoying to pay any mind. But, since you don't play those complex/annoying mechanics yourself, you don't have much of an excuse to not know what you are doing on your own side of the board. Mistakes happen, but you need to put in some effort, at least during your own turn, to do things right for the sake of your playmates' enjoyme if nothing else.
@@tickmanipulator I try to do some research on how my own cards work and practice going through the motions with my own game mechanics, but it's very easy to check out when a bunch of players at the LGS built Ms. Bumbleflower and literally every game action any player takes is immediately papered over with 3 of their own game actions. Even setting aside the fact that my deck is themed around bad cards that I enjoy, it's suffocating. This is why I enjoy mass land destruction. For the next 2 minutes we're going to play draw go. It's like coming to the surface for a breath of air.
@@tickmanipulator Another reason is that I enjoy the game despite modern card design and my contempt for everyone else that plays this game. I'm here to cast foil Rimewind Dragon because the art is sick and Soulscour because it's a fun card. There is nothing that a Magic player hates more than having to play fun, fair, interactive Magic. By definition, anything that they hate is good for the game because it's fun, fair, and interactive. Therefore the maximally fun and fair thing to do is float 12 mana and play Obliterate -> Nalathni Dragon.
Always better to call the judge when something happens that could look shady. I'd rather snitch on myself than have my opponent think I'm trying to be unfair.
This is the thing everyone says but I'm not convinced it works. I played against a cheater at a GP once, comp REL, the works. And I called a judge, and this cheater guy apologized and showed the judge a picture of a baby and said, y'know, I'm a new father, I'm just so exhausted lately, I really thought I had delirium (to use the example from the podcast clip). and the judge said aww what a cute baby. and then here's the crazy part the cheater said, could I maybe just not get a warning here? and the judge said yeah sure, it's such a magical experience, parenthood. the kind of guy who's cheated over and over and over again is hugely advantaged against a random judge who doesn't know them. which is MORE LIKELY at a tournament. it's nuts.
Seriously, I’m always counting mana, cards in hand, cards in graveyards while I’m playing. Planning on how to cast my cards is like, a core part of the game strategy. And I just can’t wrap my head around a play style that would let an oversight like this happen
I was just in a 1k and for every minor nuance we called our judge to clarify.
20k on the line f--- it I guess traverse tutors then draws, brainstorm draws 4, 3 explores w/e lawless garbage
Cedric and Pat, thank you for this so much.
That "can't wait to interview him" hit HARD
What specific incident are they talking about?
the cheater is Marc Tobiasch famous for being an egotistical rager. I watched the clip they are talking about but basically he traverses like he has delirium even tho he doesnt. I can't find it right now by googling.
@@Snarkeroid Isn't this the same dude that whined on twitter about Jim Davis not giving him free wins at the Pro Tour? What a POS.
@@Ghost26968 yep. it's wild these people just have no reprecussions
What specifically are they referring to?
Marc Tobiasch in the recent RC, i can't find the video rn
A cheater got called out with multiple clips of them doing it on camera
Look for terribad's recent tweet of twitch clips.
@@TheKeeponthanks thats the one
At a prerelease, and FNM, or a draft event, this kind of thing can be an honest mistake, no big deal. At anything with competitive REL, no, call a judge, and maybe explicitly ask for a warning to be on the record.
Having a warning isn't a big deal, it doesn't matter, except that it can help you remember not to make that mistake, and it'll help judges remember if you have a habit of misremembering rules in your favor.
The problem is that warnings are almost never given anymore and not recorded anymore. JE Depraz complained about this on Twitter recently
here before title change
Who's gonna be the one laughing when hashtag __ starts trending?
@ get it out there homie
DM the OG title if you remember it? :D
I saw the one where he traversed for a cat while one short for delerium, opponent called it out and he had another traverse, so got the cat with the second one instead. Once is a little off but gameplay mistakes like that are pretty frequent. If the same thing happened a few times then it seems pretty cut and dried that he's doing it on purpose to gain an advantage.
Link for clips?
Let's Explore that 2
I'd been debating trying to get into competitive magic in the near future, but this...sure isn't encouraging.
Did he not already play a land so when he got the land to cast the second Traverse he didn't have enough mana anyway?
i was very bummed to see tobiasch "won" the rc lille
It's why I quit judging and playing competitively. The judges are getting dumber with weaker spines. The cheating element has become brazen. Hella brazen. We have videos of multiple cheaters in the Atlanta area. Some aren't even competitively good, and yet, they still get to keep doing what they do while they keep neutering penalties for competitive and professional REL.
Cheaters gon’ cheat.
Wow, I didn't think they talked about magic for 5 minutes this week, but here I am, WRONG AGAIN!
Wait a second Marc Tobiasch is a cheater?
I get that you're talking about a tournament context where people should know better. But I play like this and I'd like to try and explain why.
Playing with and against modern Magic cards makes me disassociate. I make these kind of oversights all the time, not because I'm trying to cheat, but because it's a defense mechanism that allows me to play bad cards that I like in EDH. Every new card on the battlefield is Chains of Mephistopheles and I can't deal with it.
If I actually cared about the game I could not bear to put Kjeldoran Skycaptain onto the battlefield in a game of EDH. The hopeless rage it would engender would be too much.
another aspect of this is that I'm playing this game for fun, being hyper vigilant during a game of Magic is not my idea of fun. You could literally have 3 lands in play on turn 2 and I would probably not notice. I'm just here to play with banding creatures and mass land destruction in accordance with Richard Garfield"s original vision.
Projecting your Craw Wurm tier EDH play style and difficulty processing moderately complex information onto top level professional constructed players is laughable to say the least.
Why play the game if you don't want to pay attention? I maybe get the disassociation because Magic is complex, and many mechanics are just too annoying to pay any mind. But, since you don't play those complex/annoying mechanics yourself, you don't have much of an excuse to not know what you are doing on your own side of the board. Mistakes happen, but you need to put in some effort, at least during your own turn, to do things right for the sake of your playmates' enjoyme if nothing else.
@@tickmanipulator I try to do some research on how my own cards work and practice going through the motions with my own game mechanics, but it's very easy to check out when a bunch of players at the LGS built Ms. Bumbleflower and literally every game action any player takes is immediately papered over with 3 of their own game actions.
Even setting aside the fact that my deck is themed around bad cards that I enjoy, it's suffocating.
This is why I enjoy mass land destruction. For the next 2 minutes we're going to play draw go. It's like coming to the surface for a breath of air.
@@LongLiveStopMotion2 that's hilarious. And then they complain because land destruction "just isn't fun." Keep doing you :)
@@tickmanipulator Another reason is that I enjoy the game despite modern card design and my contempt for everyone else that plays this game. I'm here to cast foil Rimewind Dragon because the art is sick and Soulscour because it's a fun card.
There is nothing that a Magic player hates more than having to play fun, fair, interactive Magic. By definition, anything that they hate is good for the game because it's fun, fair, and interactive.
Therefore the maximally fun and fair thing to do is float 12 mana and play Obliterate -> Nalathni Dragon.