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Ellie is quiet throughout this episode because she's still traumatized by what happened last episode. (I'm surprised how many people seemed to have forgotten that so quickly. 🤔)
Joel holding Ellie in his arms the way he was holding Sarah... It's such a full-circle moment and in Joel's mind, Marlene represents the military that he couldn't shoot back then. He wasn't about to lose his second chance at being a father and the only other person he loves. Besides Tommy of course.
@@theawesomeman9821 I wouldn't call him a terrible person. Who is entirely good in a world like this?! He just made choices that fit his needs and his character. Just like everyone else. Marlene isn't that much better. They both took action without considering Ellie's needs in question. They never even asked her.
@@ValentinasWatching I mean he killed many just to save one and that one could have saved many atleast in such a situation it’s worth a try making a cure in the end he’s just selfish that’s all
The moment at 10:37 when Joel says, "Come on. I'll give you a boost" is one of the greatest little moments in gameplay history. For 10+ hours of playing, you've been giving boosts without fail as a standard mechanic of the game. Boosting Tess, getting pulled up by Tess, boosting Ellie, ferrying Ellie across water on wooden pallets, etc. You spot the ladder in this scene and get a triangle prompt, expecting to boost Ellie up - but she's not there when you press it. It was a perfect example of using the gameplay mechanics in storytelling. It sounds like a simple idea, but when you're in the flow of the game it's jarring. You FEEL the distance. Naughty Dog excels that this kind of interaction.
I just found out that the close up giraffe was actually a real giraffe they filmed with....how freaking cool is that?? What a way to actually make that scene extra special and joyful
Hahaha I heard that and immediately thought “damn, I should’ve called that out in the reaction!!” I was sitting there during that scene thinking to myself, “y’know what, I… I think that might actually be a real giraffe!” Buuuut then I got all swept up in the feelz haha
But the sound design at that point in the episode does make it sound like her ears are ringing in that moment, so for just that second if you’re saying your immediate thoughts out loud, it’s not a weird thing to say. The show obviously wanted us to think that just for a second even though the reason why she was distant was the events of the last episode.
and also once they get to the hospital, their reason to be a team is over, and i think she has that "what next? is this still a thing when we are not 'forced' to rely on each other?"
I think it’s more than that. Everyone assumes it’s last episodes trauma, and partially it is. But I think it’s because they are getting close to the end of the journey and the future after that is uncertain.
@@thathiefsandiego yeah half the reactors are like "oh yeah she's gonna be traumatized for a while". The other half are like "why is she acting weird...whats on her mind?"
And Laura Bailey was one of the nurses too. She did mocap for a nurse in the game, in TLOU2 she played a pretty important character and she's part of Critical Role alongside Ashley (and they come as a package deal). Love to love it
I think the turning point for Joel really was when Ellie told him that she would follow him anywhere. That and the giraffe thing cemented for him the idea that this is now his daughter, a daughter who has chosen him, too. And for him that convo where Ellie discussed the future with him was his loophole, the one he could justify his later choice with (because Ellie expected to survive the procedures so Joel can now tell himself he did the right thing, even though he knows Ellie would have wanted to do the surgery anyway if given the option, but he's naturally not having it, losing her like that). For the rest of the ep it's really apparent that Ellie choosing to be with him (unlike Tommy who left) meant everything to him, made him open up his heart completely, and there's no going back from that point (I think him overcompensating with the comparison of Ellie and Sarah was an expression of that - he tried, in his desperate, non-literal way - to tell her that she is now in his eyes his daughter like Sarah was and he would and did act like a father, 'Please understand why I did this'.). Beautifully constructed storytelling.
The 'Did Joel tell Ellie that he doesn't lie?' thing: no, but he said Ellie can trust him > Tommy's wife then later said only those who we trust can betray us > all the times Ellie has confirmed to us throughout the season that she will believe Joel (even this ep the dynamite thing was used to bring it up) lead to this moment where Joel lies and Ellie then chooses to trust him (even if she probably deep down knew Joel lied but she had to trust him anyway because it's Joel and Joel wouldn't......). You were also mentioning Ellie's behaviour in the beginning: she's traumatized by David. That's why she's so aloof and Joel is trying desperately to get her smile again. PS. This story is so damn good - go back to the first two eps to see how Joel and Ellie were together and compare it to this episode. Like phew, what a difference! :D Masterful relationship building.
You two definitely need to pair up again in the future. What a great finale to an already great show. Joel taking the parental role of providing (or not) consent for his "daughter" will always hit me deep. Well done guys
I think the plan was to remove her brain completely, which obviously meant she would have been sacrificed. I really felt that where they went wrong was not telling Ellie and giving her the choice. It felt so wrong to just put her to sleep and not tell her she would need to die, she would've probably agreed too, but you can never assume.
The thought process is, fireflies would've never risked that 'you can never assume'. Once ellie says no- if ever, then it wouldn't have much effect since it's like the trolley problem, kill one for all. They couldn't have just let her go, and as for ellie's character- I think we can all assume that she would've sacrifice herself. Telling her would've been the best choice overall I agree but I can also see how 'giving her a choice' is useless in a way.
After sitting on it for a day. And being split on whether Joel's actions were right or not, I've come to this conclusion. Joel and Ellie should've been informed of the chances of her surgery leading to a cure first. Namely that there was a very high likelihood it would (not just a chance). All other methods to derive a cure from her should've been exhausted before acquiescing to the last resort of ending Ellie's life to get it. After all of the other options with her had been explored and failed, then and only then should Ellie have been allowed to give her express consent to sacrifice herself for the cause. Without those three things, saving Ellie was the right call.
Agreed. I assume some blood samples were taken in Boston, but you can’t tell me the Firefly doctor had enough information to be sure inter-cranial surgery in less than a day or was the way to go.
Informed consent, absolutely. They robbed Ellie of that, and when Joel kills Marlene at the end, to me she’s getting exactly what she was trying to do to Ellie. Additionally, I don’t believe that killing her would’ve led to a cure, but even supposing it did… there is no reason to believe that would make anything better. I don’t believe any group we’ve seen would be benevolent about distributing a vaccine, and I don’t believe everyone would even take it if it were available for free. I think groups would fight over control of it and things would get worse. Plus, the infected still exist and there is no putting them back to normal.
i agree 100%. There's a reason ethical boards exist. However, under these circumstances, I also imagine them saying they should hurry up, they live in a post-apocalyptic world, many fireflies were killed and it was a matter of time until someone else found them and attack them, so "why not go straight to the method that had the higher chances of working"...
Its not really hearing loss in the beginning, the reason Ellie is so quiet and distant is because she is a completely changed person after the last episode, and is still very traumatized by everything that happened.
Tara's cloak going from shrooms to Papa Pedro's baby goth face did it for me. Butter Lettuce for the win! Love you guys! Your reactions are the ones I look forward to the most, week to week!
@A L There is almost no way that the story from game 2 is changed to any bigger degree than season 1 vs game 1. Yes, some people don't like game 2 (though a lot of them have very stupid reasons) but Neil has always backed it up with pride. Whether you like it or not, he does and it's his story fundamentally.
I love how Joel seems to be almost in a trance as he pulls out the massacre. At the end when he said “you’d just come after her” it’s so emotionless, almost how a bad actor would say it, but in this context it is him truly not thinking much of anything
Ellie’s mom is played by Ashley Johnson who did the mocap for Ellie in the games, so it’s kinda poetic in a way that game ellie is giving birth to show ellie
This Halloween I bet because of the show we might see people dress up as Joel or Ellie or even the infected. It’s been done before but I think it’ll be more popular now.
Neither Marlene nor Joel asked Ellie what she wanted to do. Marlene didn't really know know Ellie so she was afraid she wouldn't want to go through with it. Joel did know Ellie and he knew she would. And Ellie knows Joel. She knows he is lying, even if she was not aware of what was happening in the hospital. She was giving him a chance to come clean there at the end. That "Okay" felt like an "Okay, so this is what you are choosing. You're choosing to not tell me the truth. Got it." What a great show (and amazing adaptation). Can't wait for season 2!!!
Yeah, neither of them asked, both of them made the decision for her. Maybe Marlene was afraid Ellie would say no, but she suspected that Ellie would want to sacrifice her life in order to find a cure. She said so herself to Joel. I think Marlene didn't ask Ellie, because she would have done it anyway, even if Ellie would've said no. So either Marlene didn't give Ellie the choice because 'why bother?' or she wanted to spare herself the feeling of guilt. Which would be just as selfish as Joel making the decision for Ellie and then lying to her. A good leader would have asked Ellie and felt the guilt in the case they had to go against the decision of the individual for a better future for the rest of humanity. The feelings of guilt and shame usually have a negative connotation, but those feelings do have their purpose. The situation is a dilemma just like the trolley problem. It becomes a problem for me at least if a leader doesn't feel those feelings or shies away from them. You should feel it, it should be a hard decision to kill someone. Otherwise you are no better than FEDRA for instance.
I just wanna say thank you, John and Tara. I have looked forward to these reactions every week, and I gotta be honest, I’m kinda sad it’s over. Hoping the two of you do more collabs in the future. Also, the dedication to that intro was, as the kids say, *chef’s kiss* I now need a full length cover of the TLoU theme from John and a reversible blanket of cordyceps on one side and Pedro Pascal on the other 😂 Thanks again, you two. You’re both awesome 🥬🍄🖤
Thank you two so so so much for these amazing videos every week🥹 U guys are my absolute favorite humans now and the butter lettuce/guitar dynamic is the most hilarious thing ever😂 I love u guys smmmmm, ur reactions always make me so happy!!
To Tara's point that Joel has gone a bit of a turn with what he did in the hospital, tbf, that's the Joel when Sarah died. Cold blooded killer, that's how he protected Tommy and that's how he's willing to go far for Ellie.
The reaction you both had was the exact same I had back when I played the game for the first time. It was like being able to see myself play it for the first time again, loved watching you guys go through it.
Even if you didn't play the game, when Marlene is asking....well pleading with Joel to let Ellie go, as Joel is standing there cradling Ellie like he did Sarah, you know you just KNOW there is NO WAY he is letting her go.
Troy baker said something similar to, if you can't protect someone you love in this world, is it a world worth saving, which is the moral divide, how much sacrifice is worth, does humanity deserve to be saved
Ellie is so out of it because of last episode's trauma and the fact that they are nearing the end of their journey and she knows what she wants to do. So she is in a somber state knowing that she is giving her life. Just multiple things stacked on each other.
Last episode was winter, this episode is spring. It's been weeks or months since then. She's still affected by it but more so that Joel has to leave her.
I don’t think she knew she was giving up her life. She thought she’d be able to save Sam by rubbing her blood on his wound. She had no reason to except that she would need to die in order for be cure to be made
Another FYI ... one of the nurses in the operating room was played by Laura Bailey, who voiced Abby in the Last of Us Part 2 video game. I like how the producers offered some of the roles to the voice and motion-capture actors of the video game.
No they even missed that she was still traumatised. But the thing tjat literally almost EVERYONE seems to miss is that she acts so quietly is because she knows that she's probably going to die with the surgery
@@jens2049 that’s speculation on tenuous speculation; she has good reason to believe they’re approaching the Fireflies, better reason than she had approaching the university because prior they had only had word-of-mouth leads now that they’re in Salt Lake, the reality of maybe separating from Joel is that much more real, which is one reason we’re shown Ellie’s original psychological abandonment
@@jens2049 I think she's scared that the journey with Joel is about to end. She said "What do we do after they draw my blood" when they were at the camp fire. Joel was like "So it's we?" - the whole purpose of this trip is that she is cargo to Joel. As far as she knows, once she hits the fireflies it's game over, Joel is gone and she gets abandoned again. Hence, she is quiet the closer they get to the fireflies because she is sad about losing Joel. She said to Henry on the notepad she is scared of being alone. She killed her best friend who turned, she shot the kid and paralysed him before joel finished him off, she watched Sam and henry die in front of her eyes. I don't the last episode would impact her that much. She is an apocalypse child, literally all she knows is death and destruction in this world.
@@hellfish2309 100% agree with you, I think people are over thinking the connection between what happened on the last episode to the current circumstances. Once they reach the Army camp and joel as that deep chat with her her perks back up and starts reading the Puns again, straight back to how she was
@@siddery8080 there’s no over thinking it, the REASON she’s quiet is because she’s traumatized from the last episode. The game makes it more implicit that this is the case. I think if the two episodes are watched back to back it’ll be more obvious. But this is the reason why she’s quiet and strange in the beginning.
Now that the season is over, I really recommend watching the intro to the game and seeing the differences and the ending starting at when Joel gets to the operating room. Man, Ashley Johnson's performance at the end of the game was so much more impactful. More stress on specific words and taking longer to deliver that final monologue gave it so much more feeling. Just so much more emotion behind it. Loved both versions, but the original is my fav by far.
I've really enjoyed your reaction to this show. You're two work well together, and as a fellow non-gamer, I appreciate your perspective (and lack of spoilers!).
I was devastated when I didn’t see your finale reaction on the TLOU playlist. I’m so happy I went and searched for it manually because OMG you came prepared 😂😂😂 I love it already!
😹 You're awesome for committing to Butter Lettuce, Tara! 👍👍 It's been hilarious and a joy watching you and John react to this series. Please continue to collaborate on other series/movies together!🍄🍄🍄
So nice to see people who haven’t played the game and seeing their reactions and me having the exact same reaction to these epic moments when I played the game. Maaaan season 2 y’all, you’re in for a treat 😬
I loved the lettuce outfit Tara and John guitar was amazing. You guys were my best thing about Tuesdays so thank you for that. Glad I discovered Tara through this. I'll sure miss you guys it's been a great ride. Do more videos together !! Ashley really nailed it and I'm still torn about Joel's choice. I can't wait for season 2 love love love u guys! 💖✌️🎬🍄🍄🥬🥬
EXACTLY. When Marlene told Joel that he couldn't see Ellie, and what was happening, and then sent him off with 2 guys, I literally said out loud "You said you know what he's capable of, you know he's even more capable than you realized given your surprise that they made it across the country alive. But you're sending him away with only 2 guys?" Like, girl. Mistake #1 was forbidding Joel to see Ellie. Mistake #2 was telling Joel you took Ellie's choice & agency away by not explaining the likely outcome of the surgery and letting her make an informed decision. Especially when Ellie has been so traumatized. Mistake #3 was deciding to send Joel away with only 2 guys to keep him in check AFTER he made it clear he wouldn't accept what they were doing? Like. Did you really think he was going to let them walk him out of there and just make him leave?
You guys did a great job on all of your reactions! I too haven't played the games, so it was awesome to have reactions by others in the same boat. Hope season 2 doesn't take too long!
Honestly this is the first video I watched of you and I just love and share Tara's vibe, I had to sub XD I think I'm gonna love watching more of you two :)
@@StinkFingerr i thought it adapted the story very well. I loved that it wasn’t an exact copy. The one thing i might change is have the Winter chapter be two episodes or at least a little longer to give some time to trust David slightly more than we did when they dropped the reveal. But a game is always going to be a more full experience because you are playing as the characters not just watching. But for a tv adaptation, i think this was just close enough to perfect. It wasn’t perfect, but it was more than i could have asked for when it was announced
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Great point John about the emotional question that you have at the end of Part 1. I know as someone who played the games, the question I had at the end of Part 1 wasn't, "What happens to humanity?" But rather, "What happens with Joel & Ellie?" It leaves you wanting more, but having nothing to do with the outbreak
The symbolism of the game ellie giving birth to the show ellie had me in tears people... that opening scene was amazing yet terrible to watch as a mother of 2
I love how Ellie’s mother made Marlene promise to keep Ellie safe & Joel ended up fulfilling that promise even when it meant sacrificing Marlene to do so.
I love Tara. I find her like an amusing, grown up version of a combination of "Daria Morgendorffer" and "Jane lane." Youngsters who don't get the reference, check out the animated MTV late 90s-early 2000s series.
I don't think Ellie is just in a funk. She has some kind of PTSD from the events with David plus i think she can feel this journey come to an end and feeling anxious about what is gonna happen.
Why is the event with David any different to her killing her best friend, watching Sam get shot whilst he's right on top of her and then watching Henry pop himself. What's so bad about it compared to being in the middle of the horde that broke out of the ground. I don't think that event with David would giver her anymore PTSD/Trauma than any other event that she has gone through. I think you're bang on about the journey coming to an end because she says to Sam she is scared of being alone and as far as she is concerned, she is Cargo to Joel and he's gone once they hit the destination If the event with David is all she had been through, I'd have to agree with you
@@gonzoronzo6854 She was traumatised in both, except with David she murdered the f out of him. it doesn't mean the last episode she is acting weird because of David, she has been through equally, if not worse things. Killing your best friend or killing a random cannibal that wanted to eat and molest you? I think killing your best friend is more traumatising.
@@gonzoronzo6854 If David actually succeeded in his SA against Ellie, I'd completely agree. But given all the clues throughout the show, she was 100% acting weird because she was about to be separated from Joel
I still do want to state something that I think wasn't explained very clearly in the show vs the game : Not that it makes Joel's actions any less horrible, but in the game they clearly say that killing Ellie to get a "vaccine" *might* work, but not that it would 100% work.
I have loved watching this pairing experience this wonderful story for the first time. Thanks for your unique takes and wonderful reactions and of course dedication to the butter lettuce heads! Until season 2 - Endure & Survive
We're all lovin' the moral ambiguity surrounding Joel's decision to wipe out the fireflies, and condemning the entirety of humanity on the account of one girl.
I wouldn’t say he condemns humanity. Even with a “cure”, there’s still tens of millions if not billions of infected plus raiders and cannibals who aren’t gonna change their behavior. While making bites non fatal is a huge plus, I don’t think much would change. It’s been 21 years at this point, humanity is pretty much stuck where it is. Infected can still easily kill people, it’s not like they leave you alone because you seem infected, despite the scene with Tess.
@@clonexx If anything it would trigger an all out war between FEDRA and the Fireflies. The Fireflies would use this vaccine to gain more political power and FEDRA would do what it takes to get it for themselves.
@@clonexxthis is absolutely a legit point. Do people not realize that entire nations and governments have fallen? Just imagine a normal world in which infrastructure, governments, the way life have completely gone to the toilet. To get that back to where we were, it would probably take hundreds of years. Now with this fungal apocalypse, it will take even longer. The cure is not gonna solve total societal collapse. Raiders will be raiders, there will be Fedra and their competitors, and there will always be communities of David's around.
Really like and appreciate the episode review on this! Well done to you both for looking at the actions of Joel so objectively and really questioning the morality of decisions made. As it was in the game, it comes through in the show, that nothings ever as simple as good guys do the right thing and bad guys do the wrong thing.
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What did you think of this SEASON FINALE???
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Without Ashley Johnson In The Movie, 'The Avengers' Wouldn't Have Made 1 And A Half Billion Dollars.
you should react to ted lasso
Please make Tara a permanent reject!!
When John said "She looks like her so she's well cast". it made me giggle a bit knowing that that was Ellies voice actor 😅😅 gold.
It's a great coincidence that Ashley and Bella have quite a similar facial structure. 😅
She's more than just a voice actor. She acted as Ellie by motion capture
OH WOW WAS SHE COOL STORY!!!
@@amilcaraguirre6600 really? No comments have ever mentioned that.....
All you have to do is Google it and see the proof for yourself.
Ellie is quiet throughout this episode because she's still traumatized by what happened last episode. (I'm surprised how many people seemed to have forgotten that so quickly. 🤔)
Well it is like a 3 month time skip
I was going to say the same thing. Going all Lizzie Borden on David is not easily forgotten!!
@@RealCanadianGoose doesn’t say that tho
@@christophergongora7885 You can see there is no snow tho
@@christophergongora7885 goes from winter to end of spring, end of show is beginning of Summer. Says so in the game
Joel holding Ellie in his arms the way he was holding Sarah... It's such a full-circle moment and in Joel's mind, Marlene represents the military that he couldn't shoot back then. He wasn't about to lose his second chance at being a father and the only other person he loves. Besides Tommy of course.
Its like poetry, it rhymes.
Joel was also a terrible person this episode
@@theawesomeman9821 don't care, still team Joel
@@theawesomeman9821 I wouldn't call him a terrible person. Who is entirely good in a world like this?! He just made choices that fit his needs and his character. Just like everyone else. Marlene isn't that much better. They both took action without considering Ellie's needs in question. They never even asked her.
@@ValentinasWatching I mean he killed many just to save one and that one could have saved many atleast in such a situation it’s worth a try making a cure in the end he’s just selfish that’s all
The moment at 10:37 when Joel says, "Come on. I'll give you a boost" is one of the greatest little moments in gameplay history.
For 10+ hours of playing, you've been giving boosts without fail as a standard mechanic of the game. Boosting Tess, getting pulled up by Tess, boosting Ellie, ferrying Ellie across water on wooden pallets, etc. You spot the ladder in this scene and get a triangle prompt, expecting to boost Ellie up - but she's not there when you press it. It was a perfect example of using the gameplay mechanics in storytelling.
It sounds like a simple idea, but when you're in the flow of the game it's jarring. You FEEL the distance. Naughty Dog excels that this kind of interaction.
Very interesting ❤
And also Joel keep swapping guns in hospital.
Perfectly stated ❤
I love Tara's dedication to the butter lettuce. More Tara in videos please!
I thought it was a Clicker cosplay.
@@w415800 diy clicker cosplaying 😅
I couldn’t stop laughing everytime I looked at her 🤣
@@w415800 ME TOO! and I was thinking "Maybe it's just me" but now I know it wasn't haha
I just found out that the close up giraffe was actually a real giraffe they filmed with....how freaking cool is that?? What a way to actually make that scene extra special and joyful
I thought it was real, but was expecting someone to tell me it was good cgi. Lol
Really it looked cgi but what do
I know that’s cool
@@ryans413 Aye I thought some angles made it look CGI but was seriously struggling haah
It was both! The close-up feeding shots were with a real giraffe, and the rest was cgi 🦒
Hahaha I heard that and immediately thought “damn, I should’ve called that out in the reaction!!” I was sitting there during that scene thinking to myself, “y’know what, I… I think that might actually be a real giraffe!” Buuuut then I got all swept up in the feelz haha
She doesn't have hearing loss, she's just emotionally checked out after the trauma she went through at Silver Lake.
I don't understand how most of the reactors just doesn't have a clue after last episode. It's weird lol
But the sound design at that point in the episode does make it sound like her ears are ringing in that moment, so for just that second if you’re saying your immediate thoughts out loud, it’s not a weird thing to say. The show obviously wanted us to think that just for a second even though the reason why she was distant was the events of the last episode.
and also once they get to the hospital, their reason to be a team is over, and i think she has that "what next? is this still a thing when we are not 'forced' to rely on each other?"
I think it’s more than that. Everyone assumes it’s last episodes trauma, and partially it is. But I think it’s because they are getting close to the end of the journey and the future after that is uncertain.
@@thathiefsandiego yeah half the reactors are like "oh yeah she's gonna be traumatized for a while". The other half are like "why is she acting weird...whats on her mind?"
I love the fact they got Ashley Johnson to play Ellie's mom, who essentially birthed the character to life in the game, great job HBO.
And Laura Bailey was one of the nurses too. She did mocap for a nurse in the game, in TLOU2 she played a pretty important character and she's part of Critical Role alongside Ashley (and they come as a package deal). Love to love it
And Marlene, played by Marlene!
I think the turning point for Joel really was when Ellie told him that she would follow him anywhere. That and the giraffe thing cemented for him the idea that this is now his daughter, a daughter who has chosen him, too. And for him that convo where Ellie discussed the future with him was his loophole, the one he could justify his later choice with (because Ellie expected to survive the procedures so Joel can now tell himself he did the right thing, even though he knows Ellie would have wanted to do the surgery anyway if given the option, but he's naturally not having it, losing her like that). For the rest of the ep it's really apparent that Ellie choosing to be with him (unlike Tommy who left) meant everything to him, made him open up his heart completely, and there's no going back from that point (I think him overcompensating with the comparison of Ellie and Sarah was an expression of that - he tried, in his desperate, non-literal way - to tell her that she is now in his eyes his daughter like Sarah was and he would and did act like a father, 'Please understand why I did this'.). Beautifully constructed storytelling.
The 'Did Joel tell Ellie that he doesn't lie?' thing: no, but he said Ellie can trust him > Tommy's wife then later said only those who we trust can betray us > all the times Ellie has confirmed to us throughout the season that she will believe Joel (even this ep the dynamite thing was used to bring it up) lead to this moment where Joel lies and Ellie then chooses to trust him (even if she probably deep down knew Joel lied but she had to trust him anyway because it's Joel and Joel wouldn't......). You were also mentioning Ellie's behaviour in the beginning: she's traumatized by David. That's why she's so aloof and Joel is trying desperately to get her smile again. PS. This story is so damn good - go back to the first two eps to see how Joel and Ellie were together and compare it to this episode. Like phew, what a difference! :D Masterful relationship building.
this comment made me tear up a bit 🥺
You two definitely need to pair up again in the future. What a great finale to an already great show. Joel taking the parental role of providing (or not) consent for his "daughter" will always hit me deep. Well done guys
I think the plan was to remove her brain completely, which obviously meant she would have been sacrificed. I really felt that where they went wrong was not telling Ellie and giving her the choice. It felt so wrong to just put her to sleep and not tell her she would need to die, she would've probably agreed too, but you can never assume.
The thought process is, fireflies would've never risked that 'you can never assume'. Once ellie says no- if ever, then it wouldn't have much effect since it's like the trolley problem, kill one for all. They couldn't have just let her go, and as for ellie's character- I think we can all assume that she would've sacrifice herself. Telling her would've been the best choice overall I agree but I can also see how 'giving her a choice' is useless in a way.
you guys are perfect together, great job reacting to this show
Tara needs to come back for more reactions. Loved her during this entire experience. And she’s cute.
After sitting on it for a day. And being split on whether Joel's actions were right or not, I've come to this conclusion.
Joel and Ellie should've been informed of the chances of her surgery leading to a cure first. Namely that there was a very high likelihood it would (not just a chance). All other methods to derive a cure from her should've been exhausted before acquiescing to the last resort of ending Ellie's life to get it. After all of the other options with her had been explored and failed, then and only then should Ellie have been allowed to give her express consent to sacrifice herself for the cause.
Without those three things, saving Ellie was the right call.
💯
Agreed. I assume some blood samples were taken in Boston, but you can’t tell me the Firefly doctor had enough information to be sure inter-cranial surgery in less than a day or was the way to go.
Informed consent, absolutely. They robbed Ellie of that, and when Joel kills Marlene at the end, to me she’s getting exactly what she was trying to do to Ellie.
Additionally, I don’t believe that killing her would’ve led to a cure, but even supposing it did… there is no reason to believe that would make anything better. I don’t believe any group we’ve seen would be benevolent about distributing a vaccine, and I don’t believe everyone would even take it if it were available for free. I think groups would fight over control of it and things would get worse. Plus, the infected still exist and there is no putting them back to normal.
i agree 100%. There's a reason ethical boards exist.
However, under these circumstances, I also imagine them saying they should hurry up, they live in a post-apocalyptic world, many fireflies were killed and it was a matter of time until someone else found them and attack them, so "why not go straight to the method that had the higher chances of working"...
There’s a theory they could gotten samples from her spinal cord but they just straight-up decided to decimate her brain.
Its not really hearing loss in the beginning, the reason Ellie is so quiet and distant is because she is a completely changed person after the last episode, and is still very traumatized by everything that happened.
The guitar, the butter lettuce - What a finale. This has been a great series of reactions!
Tara's cloak going from shrooms to Papa Pedro's baby goth face did it for me. Butter Lettuce for the win! Love you guys! Your reactions are the ones I look forward to the most, week to week!
The finale was amazing, can't wait for Season 2
I’m not ready for what happens next
@@trinililbit12345 there’s rumours they might change it but I hope they don’t
@@AL-fl4jk I'm not sure where you got that from, both Neil and Craig have said that they don't plan on changing it. 🤷♂
@A L There is almost no way that the story from game 2 is changed to any bigger degree than season 1 vs game 1. Yes, some people don't like game 2 (though a lot of them have very stupid reasons) but Neil has always backed it up with pride. Whether you like it or not, he does and it's his story fundamentally.
@@AL-fl4jk if they change it, it won’t be the change your thinking. The golfing scene is essential for Ellie’s character development.
I love how Joel seems to be almost in a trance as he pulls out the massacre. At the end when he said “you’d just come after her” it’s so emotionless, almost how a bad actor would say it, but in this context it is him truly not thinking much of anything
Bruh went on auto pilot and activated “Punisher ☠️ Mode” on ‘em
Now I desperately want Tara and John to play the game lol
YES!
"I kinda thought it was Ellie, it's well cast." Oh you have no idea John hahaha
Ellie’s mom is played by Ashley Johnson who did the mocap for Ellie in the games, so it’s kinda poetic in a way that game ellie is giving birth to show ellie
i’m sure greg told them
Very good finale. Ellie was born like Blade as Joel went through the hospital like The Terminator went through the police station.
excellent costumes lol. it's been a lot of fun watching you guys react to this show :D
and all the green screen edits were hilarious
This Halloween I bet because of the show we might see people dress up as Joel or Ellie or even the infected. It’s been done before but I think it’ll be more popular now.
The audience loves Tara please bring her back for more reactions
Neither Marlene nor Joel asked Ellie what she wanted to do. Marlene didn't really know know Ellie so she was afraid she wouldn't want to go through with it. Joel did know Ellie and he knew she would. And Ellie knows Joel. She knows he is lying, even if she was not aware of what was happening in the hospital. She was giving him a chance to come clean there at the end. That "Okay" felt like an "Okay, so this is what you are choosing. You're choosing to not tell me the truth. Got it."
What a great show (and amazing adaptation). Can't wait for season 2!!!
Yeah, neither of them asked, both of them made the decision for her.
Maybe Marlene was afraid Ellie would say no, but she suspected that Ellie would want to sacrifice her life in order to find a cure. She said so herself to Joel.
I think Marlene didn't ask Ellie, because she would have done it anyway, even if Ellie would've said no. So either Marlene didn't give Ellie the choice because 'why bother?' or she wanted to spare herself the feeling of guilt. Which would be just as selfish as Joel making the decision for Ellie and then lying to her.
A good leader would have asked Ellie and felt the guilt in the case they had to go against the decision of the individual for a better future for the rest of humanity. The feelings of guilt and shame usually have a negative connotation, but those feelings do have their purpose.
The situation is a dilemma just like the trolley problem.
It becomes a problem for me at least if a leader doesn't feel those feelings or shies away from them. You should feel it, it should be a hard decision to kill someone. Otherwise you are no better than FEDRA for instance.
I genuinely love the dynamic John and Tara have - hope you guys can find something else that you can watch together between now and Season 2.
As a player of the game, it was an absolute treat watching your blind reactions throughout the season. Can’t wait for season 2!
I just wanna say thank you, John and Tara. I have looked forward to these reactions every week, and I gotta be honest, I’m kinda sad it’s over. Hoping the two of you do more collabs in the future. Also, the dedication to that intro was, as the kids say, *chef’s kiss* I now need a full length cover of the TLoU theme from John and a reversible blanket of cordyceps on one side and Pedro Pascal on the other 😂 Thanks again, you two. You’re both awesome 🥬🍄🖤
Thank you two so so so much for these amazing videos every week🥹 U guys are my absolute favorite humans now and the butter lettuce/guitar dynamic is the most hilarious thing ever😂 I love u guys smmmmm, ur reactions always make me so happy!!
To Tara's point that Joel has gone a bit of a turn with what he did in the hospital, tbf, that's the Joel when Sarah died. Cold blooded killer, that's how he protected Tommy and that's how he's willing to go far for Ellie.
Omg cosplay was on point. Thanks for this whole series! More with you two together please!
The reaction you both had was the exact same I had back when I played the game for the first time. It was like being able to see myself play it for the first time again, loved watching you guys go through it.
Joel knows that Ellie would not stop trying to cure everyone by sacrificing herself and that's why he lied and told her she was not the cure.
Even if you didn't play the game, when Marlene is asking....well pleading with Joel to let Ellie go, as Joel is standing there cradling Ellie like he did Sarah, you know you just KNOW there is NO WAY he is letting her go.
il miss John and Tara's reactions as much as i would miss the show! great job guys! See you in season 2 😁
Troy baker said something similar to, if you can't protect someone you love in this world, is it a world worth saving, which is the moral divide, how much sacrifice is worth, does humanity deserve to be saved
The Frigging Fireflies were never going to "Save the World", even if they could.
Ellie is so out of it because of last episode's trauma and the fact that they are nearing the end of their journey and she knows what she wants to do. So she is in a somber state knowing that she is giving her life. Just multiple things stacked on each other.
Last episode was winter, this episode is spring. It's been weeks or months since then. She's still affected by it but more so that Joel has to leave her.
I don’t think she knew she was giving up her life. She thought she’d be able to save Sam by rubbing her blood on his wound. She had no reason to except that she would need to die in order for be cure to be made
@@NavAK_86 time has nothing to do with ptsd. Ellie is forever changed after David. Even Joel after 20 years was not able to move on from Sarah.
YESSSSSSS y’all brought the guitar and butter lettuce i was crossing my fingers!!
Been waiting for this - really enjoyed you two as a pairing, hope Tara is around more often!
Another FYI ... one of the nurses in the operating room was played by Laura Bailey, who voiced Abby in the Last of Us Part 2 video game. I like how the producers offered some of the roles to the voice and motion-capture actors of the video game.
I definitely need more of the Tara & John duo!
You guys are fun to watch . So excited when you guys come on.
I feel like you guys sort of missed the fact that Joel was very aware that Ellie had been traumatized. He was doing his best to draw her out.
No they even missed that she was still traumatised. But the thing tjat literally almost EVERYONE seems to miss is that she acts so quietly is because she knows that she's probably going to die with the surgery
@@jens2049 that’s speculation on tenuous speculation; she has good reason to believe they’re approaching the Fireflies, better reason than she had approaching the university because prior they had only had word-of-mouth leads
now that they’re in Salt Lake, the reality of maybe separating from Joel is that much more real, which is one reason we’re shown Ellie’s original psychological abandonment
@@jens2049 I think she's scared that the journey with Joel is about to end. She said "What do we do after they draw my blood" when they were at the camp fire. Joel was like "So it's we?" - the whole purpose of this trip is that she is cargo to Joel. As far as she knows, once she hits the fireflies it's game over, Joel is gone and she gets abandoned again. Hence, she is quiet the closer they get to the fireflies because she is sad about losing Joel.
She said to Henry on the notepad she is scared of being alone. She killed her best friend who turned, she shot the kid and paralysed him before joel finished him off, she watched Sam and henry die in front of her eyes. I don't the last episode would impact her that much. She is an apocalypse child, literally all she knows is death and destruction in this world.
@@hellfish2309 100% agree with you, I think people are over thinking the connection between what happened on the last episode to the current circumstances. Once they reach the Army camp and joel as that deep chat with her her perks back up and starts reading the Puns again, straight back to how she was
@@siddery8080 there’s no over thinking it, the REASON she’s quiet is because she’s traumatized from the last episode. The game makes it more implicit that this is the case. I think if the two episodes are watched back to back it’ll be more obvious. But this is the reason why she’s quiet and strange in the beginning.
Now that the season is over, I really recommend watching the intro to the game and seeing the differences and the ending starting at when Joel gets to the operating room. Man, Ashley Johnson's performance at the end of the game was so much more impactful. More stress on specific words and taking longer to deliver that final monologue gave it so much more feeling. Just so much more emotion behind it. Loved both versions, but the original is my fav by far.
Love that Tara dressed up for the occasion 😂😂😂 So good!
I've really enjoyed your reaction to this show. You're two work well together, and as a fellow non-gamer, I appreciate your perspective (and lack of spoilers!).
I was devastated when I didn’t see your finale reaction on the TLOU playlist. I’m so happy I went and searched for it manually because OMG you came prepared 😂😂😂 I love it already!
😹 You're awesome for committing to Butter Lettuce, Tara! 👍👍 It's been hilarious and a joy watching you and John react to this series. Please continue to collaborate on other series/movies together!🍄🍄🍄
So nice to see people who haven’t played the game and seeing their reactions and me having the exact same reaction to these epic moments when I played the game. Maaaan season 2 y’all, you’re in for a treat 😬
I loved the lettuce outfit Tara and John guitar was amazing. You guys were my best thing about Tuesdays so thank you for that. Glad I discovered Tara through this. I'll sure miss you guys it's been a great ride. Do more videos together !! Ashley really nailed it and I'm still torn about Joel's choice. I can't wait for season 2 love love love u guys! 💖✌️🎬🍄🍄🥬🥬
Can we take a moment to appreciate the fact that they put images on Tara’s shirt but on the butter lettuce or anything else green in the room
The post-reaction analysis was absolutely fantastic!
Actress playing Anna is Ashley Johnson. Played Ellie in the video game, but I recognized her as Chrissy Seavers from Growing Pains.
THE GUITAR AND BUTTER LETTUCE!! FINALLY!!
Just by hearing the grunting and panting at the beginning of this episode I went “ellie!!!” Ashley’s voice is so iconic
Marlene: “I know what you’re both capable of”
Also Marlene: sends two NPCs to escort angry protective Joel.
😂😂😂 best comment
She completely forgot who she was dealing with.
EXACTLY. When Marlene told Joel that he couldn't see Ellie, and what was happening, and then sent him off with 2 guys, I literally said out loud "You said you know what he's capable of, you know he's even more capable than you realized given your surprise that they made it across the country alive. But you're sending him away with only 2 guys?"
Like, girl.
Mistake #1 was forbidding Joel to see Ellie.
Mistake #2 was telling Joel you took Ellie's choice & agency away by not explaining the likely outcome of the surgery and letting her make an informed decision. Especially when Ellie has been so traumatized.
Mistake #3 was deciding to send Joel away with only 2 guys to keep him in check AFTER he made it clear he wouldn't accept what they were doing?
Like. Did you really think he was going to let them walk him out of there and just make him leave?
@@katiebentley5921 don’t forget, ordering her men to shoot him if he protested at any point . Yeah, Joel was done at that point
In the game, she only sent one, so show-Marlene is smarter. Still, she really had no idea that Joel is THAT capable.
I'm like y'all, I didn't play the game. So I appreciated your reaction and loved being on the journey with you. Love the lettuce and the song!
You guys did a great job on all of your reactions! I too haven't played the games, so it was awesome to have reactions by others in the same boat. Hope season 2 doesn't take too long!
Omg you guys kept ur promise 🤣🤣🤣…hope you guys get another chance to do more video reaction!
Man, i hope you both come back for more reactions and definitely for tlou S2!!
They will
Honestly this is the first video I watched of you and I just love and share Tara's vibe, I had to sub XD I think I'm gonna love watching more of you two :)
Addition: John your braid looks amazing!
I like that they played "The Path" ending credits song same as the game. And they saved it for the last episode.
Clicked so fast. I’ve been waiting for this reaction and how John and Tara keep this up for the upcoming seasons! Love you guys!
Don't you mean "clicker" so fast? 😏😎
Really enjoyed these reactions guys. It would be really cool to see John playing the games for the first time
I would love for you guys to react to a video comparing the game to the show now that it’s finished
The game was a more fulsome experience. The TV show was also very good, but didn't budget its time well.
@@StinkFingerr i thought it adapted the story very well. I loved that it wasn’t an exact copy. The one thing i might change is have the Winter chapter be two episodes or at least a little longer to give some time to trust David slightly more than we did when they dropped the reveal. But a game is always going to be a more full experience because you are playing as the characters not just watching. But for a tv adaptation, i think this was just close enough to perfect. It wasn’t perfect, but it was more than i could have asked for when it was announced
@@LavenousForever It also needed the "Tunnel Scene".
The commitment to lettuce head was beautiful hahaha thank you for the split reactions on the channel will miss this everyweek much love
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I love the commitment, especially Tara's greenscreen costume! It's genius 😊😎
I see you with the Criss Angel MINDFREAK transition John! You the man!
Great point John about the emotional question that you have at the end of Part 1. I know as someone who played the games, the question I had at the end of Part 1 wasn't, "What happens to humanity?" But rather, "What happens with Joel & Ellie?" It leaves you wanting more, but having nothing to do with the outbreak
Nice cameo from Laura Bailey who voices Abby aswell. (She's one of the nurses)
You guys are asking all the right questions… 😉👍🏻
The symbolism of the game ellie giving birth to the show ellie had me in tears people... that opening scene was amazing yet terrible to watch as a mother of 2
I love how Ellie’s mother made Marlene promise to keep Ellie safe & Joel ended up fulfilling that promise even when it meant sacrificing Marlene to do so.
I love Tara. I find her like an amusing, grown up version of a combination of "Daria Morgendorffer" and "Jane lane." Youngsters who don't get the reference, check out the animated MTV late 90s-early 2000s series.
The surgeon who picked up a scalpel when a man was pointing a gun at him is so smart I bet his “cure” would have definitely worked
I was looking forward to this! I'm so glad that you guys did this yay
Really sad this came to an end... would love to see more Tare team ups! Maybe now its Gregs turn to do a reaction with her? Thanks for all the fun!
I don't think Ellie is just in a funk. She has some kind of PTSD from the events with David plus i think she can feel this journey come to an end and feeling anxious about what is gonna happen.
Why is the event with David any different to her killing her best friend, watching Sam get shot whilst he's right on top of her and then watching Henry pop himself. What's so bad about it compared to being in the middle of the horde that broke out of the ground. I don't think that event with David would giver her anymore PTSD/Trauma than any other event that she has gone through. I think you're bang on about the journey coming to an end because she says to Sam she is scared of being alone and as far as she is concerned, she is Cargo to Joel and he's gone once they hit the destination
If the event with David is all she had been through, I'd have to agree with you
@@siddery8080 You didn't see the difference between her reactions after Sam and after she killed David?
@@gonzoronzo6854 She was traumatised in both, except with David she murdered the f out of him. it doesn't mean the last episode she is acting weird because of David, she has been through equally, if not worse things. Killing your best friend or killing a random cannibal that wanted to eat and molest you? I think killing your best friend is more traumatising.
@@gonzoronzo6854 If David actually succeeded in his SA against Ellie, I'd completely agree. But given all the clues throughout the show, she was 100% acting weird because she was about to be separated from Joel
@@siddery8080 Nope, she was clearly traumatized after she killed David. And saying the SA was not completed must be a Joke.
HBO really brought their A game with thus series, as did Pedro and Bella, Hell the whole cast did! I love this show and both games!
Now this is the reaction I've been waiting for
man this was a great finale to this series! I hope you two react to s2 together, i love this duo
Hope to see more of you two.
It’s Frank who said to Bill that he’s not good at lying.
"Well cast" he said...
Nono, BELLA was well cast, this IS Ellie. Ashley Johnson slay!
You guys reactions have been great all season! Thank you for doing these!
I still do want to state something that I think wasn't explained very clearly in the show vs the game :
Not that it makes Joel's actions any less horrible, but in the game they clearly say that killing Ellie to get a "vaccine" *might* work, but not that it would 100% work.
The amount of times I've randomly glanced up at the butter lettuce and laughed to the point of tears is CRIMINAL lmao
I have loved watching this pairing experience this wonderful story for the first time. Thanks for your unique takes and wonderful reactions and of course dedication to the butter lettuce heads! Until season 2 - Endure & Survive
THE MUSIC WAS EVERYTHING.
We're all lovin' the moral ambiguity surrounding Joel's decision to wipe out the fireflies, and condemning the entirety of humanity on the account of one girl.
I wouldn’t say he condemns humanity. Even with a “cure”, there’s still tens of millions if not billions of infected plus raiders and cannibals who aren’t gonna change their behavior. While making bites non fatal is a huge plus, I don’t think much would change. It’s been 21 years at this point, humanity is pretty much stuck where it is. Infected can still easily kill people, it’s not like they leave you alone because you seem infected, despite the scene with Tess.
@@clonexx Exactly. A cure solves nothing. These groups would kill anyone who says they have a cure. They rely on fear of infection to stay in power...
@clonexx
Good point. It's not like the infected didn't try to attack Ellie in episode 2 and 5.
@@clonexx If anything it would trigger an all out war between FEDRA and the Fireflies. The Fireflies would use this vaccine to gain more political power and FEDRA would do what it takes to get it for themselves.
@@clonexxthis is absolutely a legit point. Do people not realize that entire nations and governments have fallen? Just imagine a normal world in which infrastructure, governments, the way life have completely gone to the toilet. To get that back to where we were, it would probably take hundreds of years. Now with this fungal apocalypse, it will take even longer. The cure is not gonna solve total societal collapse. Raiders will be raiders, there will be Fedra and their competitors, and there will always be communities of David's around.
Nothing I love more than Johns amazing puns😭 golden
Really like and appreciate the episode review on this! Well done to you both for looking at the actions of Joel so objectively and really questioning the morality of decisions made. As it was in the game, it comes through in the show, that nothings ever as simple as good guys do the right thing and bad guys do the wrong thing.
I'm glad you recognized the Peggy reference about boggle. My mind went right to her too when I watched the episode
@OFFICIALREELREJECTS hard pass
Being a critter I knew her well before I knew about her doing Ellie as I never played the game. This was such a great series.
I love you two together. Please keep making vids!
I want more Tara and John content 😶
What a beginning of the video😂😂 and their thoughts from the non gamer are nice to hear.