Hope 2020 part 2 is treating everyone well. Again, thanks to Ridge Wallet for the support while letting me make the content I want. If you want 10% off a wallet, go to ridge.com/COREAGAMING.
It takes a month to move 6 to remember unsafe moves you need to punish properly, and a lifetime for mastering each character specific counters at high level.
I've actually witnessed the Korean Backdash in real life. Friend and I were walking around Evo 2019 and we saw Knee. Friend wanted to get a picture with him. We looked away for a second and he was gone. Knee is such a god at Tekken that he can KBD in real life. Took a couple minutes to find him again so my friend could get that picture.
Knee's TH-cam channel has pretty good content too He recently opened a tournament in South Korea with his own $, did commentary as well as participate. He won haha such a troll
Yup but your opponent doesn’t like social distancing so they will try punch you, but with expert retreating techniques you could maintain that perfect 6ft distance.
legit turtle vs hare situation. one team moving fast thanks to dribbling, the other stuck in place having to pass the ball to move. now you got guys like lebron stream rolling to the basket like a freight train. also funny that the rule naismith came up with is still being used, it's just that players are passing to themselves via dribbling.
The whole reason why dribbling was initially frowned upon officially was because the ball was supposed to be stealable from players without needing to get too violent. If they could move around with the ball, that idea could be in jeopardy. Thankfully, dribbling opens up the ball enough that that isn't too much of an issue. And because it allowed that freedom of movement, it made smaller team sizes viable, and now we have five in play per team at once instead of the original nine, which wasn't even a regulation standard initially.
A list of technical skills I’ve acquired in Tekken: • comically slow wavedash • standing block (let go of stick) • I can count to four. Just kidding, I lied about the second one; I always manually block by holding back as hard as I can like a 2D scrub.
@@Geheimnis-c2e the 3 sec rule under the basket is literally because of shaq camping under and just overpowering with dunks and rebound, like at the time, he never really do anything other than camping under the basket just waiting for a pass or rebounding the ball
The story about dribbling reminds me of how stealing bases came to be a thing in baseball. During a pro game way back the 19th century, a guy just decided to run from 1st to 2nd base during a pitcher's delivery to the plate. Because there was no rule in place preventing it, stealing bases became a thing.
I can’t wait for this video to blow up with comments like this one about Kazuya in Smash, especially when Smashers find out that Kazuya doesn’t have auto turn around, but rather has KBD.
if they actually let him KBD that'd be sick. But remember that this is also the franchise which got rid of wavedashing AKA the most freeflow fighting game movement option of all time, or at least the most freeflow one I'm aware of
I shit you not, getting back into Tekken right now and found that my movement is what I needed to improve on the most. Was literally going to look up tutorials on movement and the man himself has blessed me with knowledge. Love you Core A.
U don't need tekken 7, tekken it's like fifa, every single game its exactly the same, so if u learned 1 character back then in first tekken and its in any other tekken u're good, same applies to the kbd
@@FewRxi, I'll have to disagree with you there, I've been playing tekken for years and not all tekken games are the same Tekken 6 and tekken 7 have entirely different combo mechanics and if you don't know either, you won't get very far, and tekken 5 has a different way of optimizing combos from both tekken 6 and 7 Not to mention characters get new moves added and removed when new games come out To say that Tekken 1 is the same as tekken 7 is just WRONG.
@@FewRxi You know nothing about Tekken, it’s not a yearly release, every title of Tekken is released, a lot of things changed. Fifa or sports games that released every year will either be busted or just still stay the same, just graphically improved or, worse.
That was a great piece of content. You showed good examples of movements to distinguish the differences between fighting games, gave a great parallel with Basketball to contextualize the impact and relevancy of the technique and gave us a free history lesson at the same time. Kept the video from having a ridiculous runtime and even put the sponsored ad at the end. I'll be looking forward to your next videos, keep it up!
Another irl example of unintended techinques in a game is baseball. For whatever reason, there was a point in the games history where stealing bases wasn't a thing. But that changed once a team from Pittsburgh decided that there was nothing in the rule book explicitly banning the practice, so they took advantage. People didnt like the new techinique, giving it the name of a stolen base (implying it wasnt won by legetimate means) and branding the team from Pittsburgh as the Pirates. The name stuck :)
I never comment, but just wanted to compliment how you connected the Korean Backdash to the historical development of dribbling in basketball. Stroke of genius. I loved it!
As a basketball player and a tekken player this is by far one of my favorite videos. I loved this one. Great comparison and analyzation from a player and developer standpoint. Cheers Core-A Gaming!
Another example of emergent game play was a little known game called gunz online in the mid 2000s. A movement technique called kstyle completely changed the speed and pacing of the game. At the time, the exploit was viewed similarly as "requiring finger gymnastics to perform basic movement". Without kstyle though, the game would never have been as popular as it was at the time and indeed gunz 2 was nowhere near as popular and lacked the movement exploit that was popular in the original.
Movement is the biggest thing for me when it comes to enjoying a fighting game, so things like KBD, wave/plink dashing, and airdashes are hella nice to have as options
JDCR said a while ago that learning KBD is not a "must". Which is just a situational technique. He also mentioned that not everyone knows when to apply KBD. The most important thing is to learn the fundamentals of Tekken.
I know that blasted salami has said that he’s tried to get some people into tekken once and they thought that the twitching seizures that tekken characters do looked stupid and made them think movement was unimportant, but the first time I saw tournament footage I thought it was really cool because it looked obvious that they were using some sort of advanced movement technique. It actually attracted me to the game.
I'll be honest I enjoy the visual spectacle that naturally comes with high-level play, and I feel as though Tekken's twitching seizures really does detract from that. I know for those involved in the scene it's par for the course and they don't bat an eye, I understand that there's complex technical depth behind what I'm seeing but it will never not look dumb to me.
It's one of the reason why I hate Tekken. In many fighting games movement is OK as it is. It's effective on its own. In Tekken so advanced techniques are necessary.
@@RanmaruRei movement is the core of Tekken. Its movement should not be, as easy as other fighters. The techniques are not unnecessary, they are just so much more powerful than in other fighters that it makes sense to make them harder to do. Having an easier option is fine (like ladder stepping or qcb), but the advanced techniques should always be better. The only super hard movement techniques are kbd and ss anyway. Maybe wavedash if you have a char with one (Bob, Hwo, Mishimas, etc.). And these aren't even needed until intermediate play.
I believe Jang Iksu was one of those koreans whom i’ve seen do it so flawlessly (TTT1), his movement back then was almost perfect. They should should make a tribute video about him.
This was a video i watched before i even knew anything about Tekken. T7 was on sale a week after watching, and since then it’s become one of my favorite fighting games.
Can you imagine though. What if Nintendo embraced Wavedashing and kept it in every iteration of smash since Melee. How much further would the game have evolved competitively if they were for exciting emergent gameplay rather than against it.
@@Gilthwixt1 I don’t think that whether a smash game has wavedash or not really contributes to competitive potential. Especially because wavedash allowed for better movement but also complimented Melee’s physics engine. I mean the only reason it even happens is because of Melee’s physics engine I’m pretty sure. It would be weird to have it in Ultimate wouldn’t really feel right. Although you can waveland.
@@Gold_Red52 Wavedashing may be a quirk of the physics engine in Melee, but it doesn't have to be. Rivals of Aether was created with the wavedash in mind as an example, and it feels in my opinion a lot smoother to use than in Melee (which is to say it doesn't seem to break controllers or people's hands). If they smoothed out wavedashing and made it a regular movement option, similar to how games adopted move cancelling after Street Fighter 2 accidentally let you cancel normals into specials, then it could become much more casual friendly like RoA wavedashing already is.
Sweet music for the KBD explanation. There's an epic, old-school flash animation fight between Ken and Raiden with the same music. Brought back memories haha
Omfg, I literally just did this when I started playing the game and understood the feel of the game, I can't believe this whole time, i've been using a tech Koreans use in tournaments!
I still find it hard to believe that there was an entire decade and change where the devs thought that 8-way run was a "problem" to be addressed, so they made it 8-way crawl, instead. Glad they finally got their act together again with SC6. :)
This is one of the reasons I prefer Soulcalibur over Tekken - because movement is immediately accessible and understood by most players. You aren't locked into constant inputs for efficiency, it's simple because it should be.
@@ThiefofCrystals if you are new to tekken, don't kbd. Instead do backdash, sidestep, backdash. Kbd won't make your footsie better all of sudden. Other things are more important for beginners to learn. Unfortunately that a big problem with tekken, beginners think that learning some advanced things as necessary to play the game at a decent level, and even worse, they go online and get the impression that these things are fundamental and take priority to learning them. Don't be fooled, kbd isn't necessary to learn at the beginning, and you should start learning it when you reach rank 20 online.
@@mmmk6322 While I do appreciate the advice the sheer fact that you're providing an alternative for movement - a sequence instead of an input - kinda proves my point. This conversation simply wouldn't happen in other fighting games and it frankly shouldn't.
exactly this, the real solution is to make it so that you don't need to master fiddly inputs just to move backwards. Just make it so that you can move at the same speed with normal backdash spam
@@gogogagagugu2134 that's the issue with the FGC is catering to tryhard tournament players and regular casuals. Very difficult to make a game for both.
more exposure? sure not sold 6 million copies to around 50 million total but it growing with post on r/Tekken (feel how you do about reddit it's the pulse on things) pre hype of wallstreetbets.
@@M4TTYN I'm talking competitive tekken you should of seen tag2, we always had the lowest entrees at every tournament. I'm not really talking about how many people bought this game just to finish the campaign and let it collect dust on their shelf
It's a pretty interesting historical analogy to have the KBD and dribbling, tho there's a lot more that could be drawn out of the implication, for one whether "Traveling" would be considered "casualized" version of dribbling, which is very much frowned upon and so on. It's also worth differentiating that "who" is making the rules of dribbling (a big, institutional governing body), while, apparently, "outsiders' of the fgc have been very much pushing for lowering the technical skill ceiling/floor, across the board, and whether that's worth commenting on in community's reaction. But I do agree most with your common theme/sentiment in most of your vids, that fighting games should be some sort of "metropolitan" amassment of variety, that, to quote another FGC youtuber Leon Massey, "Fighting Games are for Everyone™, but not EVERY game needs to be for EVERY one". While the concept of a fighting game is stereotypically competitive and requiring technical dexterity to learn, I do thing, being "unique perhaps at the cost of mainstream acceptability, or even accessability" is the concept Fighting Game has been tussling with for a long time that I hope actually becomes generally acceptable, at least in the way weird indie games like indie RPGmaker horror games, Eurojank Slavic Suffering Walking Sims, Rogue-lites so detached from the original Rogue and other niche genres with acceptance within the general gaming space, if not culture as a whole.
I agree that fighting games shouldn't necessarily be for everyone. However, I also think we should make moves and movement as intuitive and enjoyable to do as possibly can be while upholding the competitive and difficult integrety of the game. And personally, I feel wavedashing and to a degree, KBD shows a direction that the players want the game to move in, but they're also weighed down by being wonky and quirky instead of intuitive purely by being unintended input "exploits" rather than well implemented into the game proper in terms of input. If wavedashing and KBD is better than the current movement option, then imo the current ones should be replaced for those but the inputs should be as intuitive and fitting as the original limited options. Why? Because wavedashing and KBD essentially replaces the former options entirely, because these options are core universal aspects to movement and because you shouldn't be forced to resign to a wonky design quirk to be able to compete, even if some might've come to enjoy it in a niche way or grow the muscle memory for it. What the adoption of KBD tells us is that it's a strong option and possibly also that people prefer fast unlimited backdash to the limited one. So the clear option here is to make that the default option, but imo not to keep it behind complex inputs, especially considering not everyone uses stick.
@@Yous0147 I'm not sure where this argument originated from, but I hear/read it very often. Wavedash does not replace a single cd and bdc does not replace a single backdash, just like how a single jab cannot be replaced by a 122/121/123/124 or whatever string. They all have their own unique purpose(s) as well as pros and cons.
@@Bilal44 Exactly wavedashing leaves you vulnerable/inactionable and while it's incredibly good for microspacing, dash dancing and even walking to an extent is just as important to neutral and spacing.
@@eliastew9636 What? The purpose of wavedashing is to make you move while being able to do any actions. The only drawback is that you lose the invincibility frames. (but you can block/dash if you need to). And while the dribble is a good exemple on why we should keep the dash canceling technique in tekken it doesn't approach the problem people have about it. People doesn't say it should be removed. People say it should be made accessible. To take the example of basket, it's like they kept dribble in games but you have to do the pass input every steps. And with your logic you should ask for it. Because dribble has some drawback (people can take the ball while you dribble) so it's not exactly superior as just putting your foot forward.
It’s not talked about as much but dash dancing in melee is also a main difference from other smash games. It makes the gameplay rely on dashing and precise and nuanced spacing. The turn around animation is 1 frame so you can bait and draw attacks and manipulate space in a way that isn’t present in other smash titles. Add wavedashing and a world of feints and baits open up and make the game enjoyable and replayable for years.
this has officially become that channel that barely covers my interests in the slightest but I want to watch every video because they're presented so well Edit: a word
I had no idea about the Yale dribbling "scandal" when it came to basketball. The fact that you were able to reference it to how KBD fits and affects Tekken is pretty remarkable.
I agree with the analogy. I see the KBD as maybe "the crossover" dribble is today. There was a crossover before in basketball (it's point was purely to switch hands when you dribble). Around the 2000s players reinvented the crossover to cause other defenders difficulty guarding and staying in front them. They did this by keeping themselves low and shifting left to right rapidly. You didn't have to have a crossover but you are easier to guard without one. Same with KBD, you don't HAVE to know a KBD but you are easier to stay on top of without one. Both of these are examples of unique movements that changed the game.
melee does the same thing with IASA (interuptable as soon as) where moves like marth's down tilt can be interupted early by doing a different move 10 frames or so before the animation for down tilt actually ends. Walking out of a down tilt lets you do another down tilt sooner if you slightly walk out of each one after doing it, canceling the animation early.
Walking here is redundant because you can just straight up downtilt out of IASA lol. A better example would be that you cannot directly shield out of IASA, so you buffer walk hold shield to get around this.
A fascinating video, as usual. Also, it’s probably the most concise, direct and easily digestible KBD tutorial I’ve seen. I wish this had existed 6 months ago when I was learning to KBD. It illustrates why tutorials need to be planned, have a script and be concise. I realise that isn’t the point of the video, just a happy side effect!
I get that but at the same time, I don't think the in game tutorial can get any better at teaching KBD as how some YT content has done. Especially utilizing KBD in a non-vacuum situation such as blocking and just doing KBD 3 times to get the spacing or until their opponent whiffs. Then you have to have the muscle memory to catch that and land a punish. It is also a concept that everyone TREATS in a vacuum (like many who complain about it) until they get the full grasp of tekken concepts such as spacing and punishment. Without it KBD is just moving backwards with no purpose and that is just as bad.
Great video, I wish there was a little bit more emphasis on being able to block while backdashing in Tekken. Tekken is only a fighting game where backdashing is completely safe and non-committal as you can cancel it before the end of the backdash. I believe expanding on KBD alternatives, like backdash canceling (BD>SS>BD), and it's utility of additionally moving you away from the wall, are extremely helpful.
@@reeseon10 wavedashing is only a portion of what is basic movement in competitive melee, although by far the most famous. L-cancelling, wavelanding, jump heights, tilt vs smash inputs, DI & SDI (debatabely not movement but without these you won't last with experienced players), SHFFLing, and I'm sure other tech I'm forgetting is all pretty much required to have ok control of your movement, before character specific movement is then taken into play as well (think ledgedashes/waveshines/moonwalk etc). For most people, just L-cancelling consistently is a significant challenge, and tilt vs smash inputs as well. So the amount of time for most people to get competent enough at movement to play competitively and have any chance of not being steamrolled is a huge barrier to entry, and movement alone will not bring you up to the competitive skill floor- you need to get there with movement & then start applying it in neutral, advantage, disadvantage, and make it work with your character's moves. All together that's a very high skill floor compared to many past times. Oh, and it's all happening at a way faster pace than most people ever play games. Of course all this doesn't mean Melee is bad or whatnot, it's a game like any other we play at the end of the day. This one just requires a massive dedication competitively, and then mix that with the communities you find in any group of people who all love one thing, and it can get toxic for many. So yeah, Melee's movement standards competitively are pretty bonkers for most people. So is running a marathon, though.
2:48 - EDF 4 is this in spades as well. There is a class that is so slow and cumbersome that you MUST learn how to do an exploit, involving selecting very specific weapons that allow to do an animation-cancel. If you do not do this, you legit have no chance in surviving the higher difficulties no matter how much health you have. The producers basically admitted that "yeah, we knew it was a glitch, but we didn't want to patch it, but we felt the game needed it". And they were right; The Fencer class in EDF can be the funnest class to play because of it's learning curve.
People over emphasize the kbd. The important thing is understanding that movement in tekken gets canceled with any other direction except for the same direction. For example, you can cancel a sidestep with back to block, that way you get a weaker sidestep that will be enough to dodge weak tracking moves but will block moves that are slower but tracks well. You can do quarter circle down repeatedly to get multiple sidesteps in a row. If you get excellent fast execution, you can micro dash forward and follow it up with backdashs masked with approaching forward dash, all to play a stronger game of footsies. This is one of the core aspects of Tekken, footsies is tied to execution. If you can't input directions with the right timing and rhythm, understand how and when to sidestep, block, dash and backdash, you basically won't be able to play a good footsie game. And footsie in tekken is the strongest skill to have.
Dude I have an orange Tabby too! His name is Nacho and he’s mah boy! Great video as always. Thank you. The Korean backdash is similar to a short jazz phrase
NBA Jam's exploit was that if you were ahead, goal tending was a viable way to play defense. At worse you only surrender 2 points and if your team can shoot the 3ball as well or you get the 'he's on fire buff', you have control of the game.
There is another game that has a very clear parallel example with one distinct difference. In rocket league at release, when you jumped off the ground there was a timer on your second jump, which could be a second standard jump or a directional flip called a dodge. The timer was 1.25 seconds if you tapped the first jump or 1.45 seconds if you held it. These were the longest possible values you could ever have in the game for jump timings. Psyonix added Neo Tokyo about 1 year in to the game, which had raised sides and they changed the mechanic around jump timings that, if you drove off this raised side without doing your first jump you had an infinite time after the take off to use a second jump or dodge. This basically invented the celing shot and the flip reset, where players will jump to the ceiling from the wall and land all 4 wheels on it, to fall off and follow the ball with an infinite dodge timer and have the ability to shoot whenever they want, allowing much more ability for reactive dodging based on what your defender was doing. the flip reset is also now in too, which is basically hit the ball with all 4 wheels to give yourself a dodge and a great chance to take a hard to read shot at the enemy. Its something extremely high skilled that has made the game far more exciting but it was never truly intended to create these situations and the main difference is that it wasnt in the game at its first release, so is something that has been changed by updating the game.
One of my favorite things about platform fighters is how the best of them have a kinda "physics sandbox/playground" where so much depth of the game is just figured out by the community. So many moves in Rivals of Aether can give momentum, be cancelled, and carry that momentum in unique and interesting ways.
Because the stages actually matter in platform fighters. It adds depth and identity to their otherwise simple combat in contrast to a traditional fighter's usual plain stage layout but complex fighting mechanics. Though at times the larger the stage's scale is, the more imbalanced it becomes. Which is why arena fighters are understandably looked down upon since all of them are just broken. Except for Power Stone.
Me and my friends used to always do it long before anyone ever heard of Korean back dash. We learned it because of Paul's slides. Though we didn't know it was anything special, we just thought it was just part of the game.
This is an interesting video and I very much appreciate the equivalence made between dribbling and KBD, but there's more to consider here I feel. With KBD and wave dashing or any other unintended designs in a game, it can sometimes come off positively or negatively, sometimes it's an exploit, other time it's unintended but fortunate design. You really have to look at the end product of it and see how it affects the game and the players. If KBD is popular and people find it fun and fulfilling then it doesn't make sense to remove it, but at the same time it doesn't make sense to have players be gatekept from using it by having it mechanically quirky or tough to do. The problem with KBD isn't that it should be removed then, rather it's that it should be made the "default" dash option instead when pushing back back, because what KBD shows is that the limited backdash isn't as fun or interesting (in theory anyway). The original principles behind making backdash limited was twofold: 1. Make backdashing intuitive and simple, essentially because it's to be a universal tool, 2. Limit it so that backdash doesn't become unfun/stupid/broken. KBD and the wide adoption and enjoyment of it challenges principle 2, but not principle 1 and at the cost of principle 1. It's the same problem wavedashing has, a fighting game's inputs should be as intuitive and seamless to understand as can be from motion to move on the screen, wavedashing and KBD, as they are now, complicates that and makes you need to force your brain to submit to a design quirk in order to compete. These kinds of moves only makes sense to us now because we have forced ourselves to build the muscle memory for it, but I would argue that a game is more enjoyable the more intuitive and sound the input fits with the motion on screen.
Many fighting game players don't understand that execution doesn't add depth to a game and just serves to make the game unnecessarily difficult to input. In many cases, what strategy is lost by removing the execution can be added through a different means, or what strategy being lost being mostly irrelevant. I think fantasy strike does this very well. It gets guile's charge moves and puts it on a character where moving forward loses the charge. This makes it so it still applies the movement restriction (the strategic limitations) of the original move, but removes the execution so more people can use it.
I would've hoped the comparison to dribbling would've helped people know why this isn't a good point but here we are, I guess. When bad basketball players are tilted or mentally fatigued, dribbling is one of the first things that suffers. You either pat the ball too hard so it bounces unpredictably, don't catch the ball properly so it ends up slipping out of your possession, or you try dribbling slowly to offset that and you just lose possession. Dribbling is interesting because it requires constant dexterity and spatial awareness from the player. What you're saying in your post is the same as someone saying "Basketball wasn't designed around these sweatlords being able to run while maintaining possession, so either they should remove dribbling from the game, or allow everybody to run with the ball without gatekeeping the rest of us". KBD is an interesting mechanic _because_ you can fuck it up. Also making it more "intuitive" would lead to low-level Tekken being a turtle fest of everybody poking and running away, lessening the casual appeal the game is generally really good for.
@@toowiggly It may not add depth to the game, but it add the excitement to people watching when they know it's not the easy thing to do. It's the same thing why watching LoL tournament isn't as fun as watching DotA tournament. If I want to see strategy only I should have just gone watching RTS or Go instead of fighting game. Execution is what make esport exciting to watch, be it FPS, Sport, Fighting game or MOBA. Last point is, all those "technique" exists because the players discovered it. You basically just asked that developer should let everyone be able to do the technique that didn't exist when the game came out. Imagine that Fenritti discovered the counter vanish combo recently and it requires some accuracy input, then some people saying "that technique is hard, everyone should be able to do it".
@@CaptainHandsome I know, I understood that point, I'm just saying they're not entirely equivalent. Dribbling works well and is intuitive to do, so every beginner who sees it being done can do it themselves (1) very easily and intuitively, and it brings about a (2) more interesting flow to the game that's different. KBD brings about a more interesting flow to the game that's interesting (2) but it is not intuitive unles if you've forced yourself to build the muscle memory for it (x1). There's a difference between what people wanted with basketball at the time and what people want with backdashing now, they aren't equivalent even if the narratives line up neatly, you have to look at their actual effect on the game, asses and balance that. There's also the interesting quirk tht in a game, you can decide the physics beyond the mechanics but I digress. Just consider KBD for a moment, it's a move everyone should be able to do to compete competently. That, I feel is analogues to normal dribbling (i.e. bouncing the ball up and down with your hand) which in basketball isn't at all difficult to do, it's actually very intuitive and easy and the movement options are informed through where the ball is bouncing. KBD is, in my view, more similar to if you circumvented the rules by dribbling behind your back (which some people do enjoy doing), then people found out it was fun to dribble, but people still want it to stay only behind your back because that is more challenging and works with the current rules. Then the newcomers and casual players can learn and play by passing to each other, but the ones who try to compete at any level will have to deal with dribbling behind their backs even if it doesn't feel as intuitive to them as dribbling in front of them. I get that a fighting game's motions need to have some difficulty and dexterity behind them, but I feel it's important to asses what move should be complex and what move shouldn't, and backdashing is core to your movement so it should be something people can access to a fair degree. What you lose by making people able to do KBD through back back, simplifying it, is that it becomes easier to do, yes, but what you gain is that it opens up the playing field such that even beginners and casuals can actually learn and intuite KBD backdashing through natural play, and maybe eventually compete because they can focus on learning other aspects of the game that better warants difficult and advanced motions and inputs.
That's actually insane that dribbling wasn't in the game before. I love stuff like that. Love when people break the game makes me go why didn't I think of that.
I lowkey kinda want to see these older style basketball rules implemented in games like when NBA Street had different rule-sets that were either street-based or NBA based. I would also like to see pro NBA players, do some kind of exhibition matches using these olden rules.
Games that require practice & patience to improve overall by implementing harder techniques to master in-game are by far the most fun games to play imo.
Just bought my first Tekken game (8) because my friends are into it. Coming from a SSBM background wave dashing and kbd are surprisingly similar. I'm enjoying Tekken so far and would like to continue to learn it
![ลองสุ่มไอโฟน 990 โกงมั้ย? [ โกงมั้ยครับ ep.101 ] | DOM](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/bfsWe0j492k/mqdefault.jpg)
Hope 2020 part 2 is treating everyone well. Again, thanks to Ridge Wallet for the support while letting me make the content I want. If you want 10% off a wallet, go to ridge.com/COREAGAMING.
Lmao I was so interesting in the dribbling part I completely forgot I was watching a core A video
nom nom nom more core a vidz
I love your videos. I mean freakin Baseketball analogy??
Worth the wait
Thanks for the vid, as a hardcore Tekken player, I didn't get how Korean Backdashing worked, also, can you please do a vid on Mishima Wavedashing?
weird to go into a tangent about dribbling instead of just addressing the fact that they could make that the backdash speed if its intentional
“Oh heihachi look,kazuya is taking his first steps"
Baby Kazuya: ⬅️⬅️↙️⬅️⬅️↙️⬅️⬅️....
Everyone should practice KDB with Paul Phoenix's theme from Tekken 3 OST.
I actually saw that video.
I loved that video
good to see more speedo fans
That video is hilarious
When he said basketball also has a movement exploit, I thought he was about to talk about 2k speedboosting
Yeah its called uncalled travels in the NBA right?
TSkillzX I’m talking about speed boosting in nba 2k playboi.
TSkillzX no, but it is what people who don’t know basketball call a travel.
_ Maza _ you think if WNBA players Korean back dashed better they would get more viewers?
I thought he was going talk about james harden's double "backdash" 🤣
Ah Tekken.... the only game where moving back takes a month to practice
A month? lolz.
@@richcore You needed a year, right?
@@CarbonRollerCaco 15 years actually.
It takes a month to move 6 to remember unsafe moves you need to punish properly, and a lifetime for mastering each character specific counters at high level.
You fool it took me 3 tekken games to learn
I've actually witnessed the Korean Backdash in real life. Friend and I were walking around Evo 2019 and we saw Knee. Friend wanted to get a picture with him. We looked away for a second and he was gone. Knee is such a god at Tekken that he can KBD in real life. Took a couple minutes to find him again so my friend could get that picture.
That's excellent. 😂
Emergent gameplay
Knee's TH-cam channel has pretty good content too
He recently opened a tournament in South Korea with his own $, did commentary as well as participate. He won haha such a troll
😂😂
Lmao
The first person to dribble:
"I'm passing the ball to myself"
Everyone gasped in awe
🤯
"I'm passing the ball...to myself..!"
*multiple gasps and anime splitscreens of the entire audience*
Yale writing dribbing ruining basketball is hilarious 😂
@@justinjohnson2855 the fact all of the controversy is actually serious is very funny to me
"i'm passing the ball to myself"
indian soap opera editors: "my time has come"
Hopefully people don't catch you doing a sloppy version of this or you'll have yourself a slapdash backdash backlash
Yoooo I know you
Vietnamese backlash lmaoo
Oh my god, it's GMTK watching Core-A gaming! Nice!
Yooo you should make a video on melee
Pls never make a video on melee, you're too good for that
The Korean Backdash is top tier level Social Distancing technique
Yup but your opponent doesn’t like social distancing so they will try punch you, but with expert retreating techniques you could maintain that perfect 6ft distance.
"oh my gosh I haven't seen you in soo long! Have you learned any new skills since the quarantine?"
"Yes" *does a 360 and KBD away*
agree
You ever just.....Korean backdash in real life?
and the society is doing wave dash
Dribbling an advanced movement technique that broke the game.
legit turtle vs hare situation. one team moving fast thanks to dribbling, the other stuck in place having to pass the ball to move. now you got guys like lebron stream rolling to the basket like a freight train.
also funny that the rule naismith came up with is still being used, it's just that players are passing to themselves via dribbling.
This sounds like tierzoo material
The whole reason why dribbling was initially frowned upon officially was because the ball was supposed to be stealable from players without needing to get too violent. If they could move around with the ball, that idea could be in jeopardy. Thankfully, dribbling opens up the ball enough that that isn't too much of an issue. And because it allowed that freedom of movement, it made smaller team sizes viable, and now we have five in play per team at once instead of the original nine, which wasn't even a regulation standard initially.
Hey
Ib4 they allow kicking the ball when then update the next basketball rules lmao
Came here to learn KBD ended up getting educated on how dribbling came to be in Basketball.
This video is well put together.
By the time the basketball analogy ended I had literally forgot I was watching a Tekken video on backdashing.
exaggerated
@@eavyeavy2864oh
i didn't know basketball athlete is doing korean backdash everytime.
Korean backdash before Korea
Harden is doing it spot on
National Backdash Association
More like an American Pass Dash.
What 🤣
This is literally the only thing I know how to do in Tekken.
Well, I can't do this.
But I play Kuma anyways so
Same 😂
this is literally me hahah
real
A list of technical skills I’ve acquired in Tekken:
• comically slow wavedash
• standing block (let go of stick)
• I can count to four.
Just kidding, I lied about the second one; I always manually block by holding back as hard as I can like a 2D scrub.
Never knew dribbling wasn't intentional, thanks for the wrinkle in the brain.
There was a time when dunking was prohibited as well.
@@bennymountain1 *screams in Hanamichi Sakuragi*
@@bennymountain1 Cuz of Shaq?
@@Geheimnis-c2e I heard it was because of Kareem Abdul Jabar, who was so tall that he could just gently lift the ball into the hoop.
@@Geheimnis-c2e the 3 sec rule under the basket is literally because of shaq camping under and just overpowering with dunks and rebound, like at the time, he never really do anything other than camping under the basket just waiting for a pass or rebounding the ball
I fucking love that I watched this purely to learn how to KBD in tekken only to also have a lesson on basketball at the same time 💀
Yes Pyra, that’s a pretty good backflip.
almost thought the "yale dribbling ruins basketball" article was real lmao
I was actually worried about that for a second lol
@@CoreAGaming I thought it was until reading this comment, so maybe those fears were well-founded lol
I thought it was real
Lol thanks for bringing it to my attention
It’s not?
I've never had KBD explained this clearly. Thank you so much, Gerald
The story about dribbling reminds me of how stealing bases came to be a thing in baseball. During a pro game way back the 19th century, a guy just decided to run from 1st to 2nd base during a pitcher's delivery to the plate. Because there was no rule in place preventing it, stealing bases became a thing.
Hope you're all ready for Korean Dashdancing in Smash Ultimate.
I can’t wait for this video to blow up with comments like this one about Kazuya in Smash, especially when Smashers find out that Kazuya doesn’t have auto turn around, but rather has KBD.
if they actually let him KBD that'd be sick. But remember that this is also the franchise which got rid of wavedashing AKA the most freeflow fighting game movement option of all time, or at least the most freeflow one I'm aware of
i think he does have auto turn around though
inb4 Sakurai confirms that Kazuya doesn't actually have KBD in smash
He is unfortunately confirmed to have auto turnaround, not KBD, as of earlier today.
@@ultimayashade8920 I’m going to have to hold that fat L.
I shit you not, getting back into Tekken right now and found that my movement is what I needed to improve on the most. Was literally going to look up tutorials on movement and the man himself has blessed me with knowledge. Love you Core A.
Facts lmao, remember the days of fighting games before internet 🤣🤣🤣
Me who didn’t even own Tekken 7: _Hm yes, very useful_
U don't need tekken 7, tekken it's like fifa, every single game its exactly the same, so if u learned 1 character back then in first tekken and its in any other tekken u're good, same applies to the kbd
@@FewRxi, I'll have to disagree with you there, I've been playing tekken for years and not all tekken games are the same
Tekken 6 and tekken 7 have entirely different combo mechanics and if you don't know either, you won't get very far, and tekken 5 has a different way of optimizing combos from both tekken 6 and 7
Not to mention characters get new moves added and removed when new games come out
To say that Tekken 1 is the same as tekken 7 is just WRONG.
I agree with you both.
@@FewRxi You know nothing about Tekken, it’s not a yearly release, every title of Tekken is released, a lot of things changed. Fifa or sports games that released every year will either be busted or just still stay the same, just graphically improved or, worse.
@@FewRxi whoa now Tekken don't got a gambling "mechanic" in it ....
well i remember when fifa games didn't.... miss those days....
From now on, I'm only playing basketball without dribbling. That'll show those cheaters
Your friends on the court will not let you be great if you do this. Trust me...
Man i remember ishimaru.
@Anton Marshall I know, i was making a joke lol.
anyone who dribbles isn't *really* playing basketball..
So Netball?
That was a great piece of content. You showed good examples of movements to distinguish the differences between fighting games, gave a great parallel with Basketball to contextualize the impact and relevancy of the technique and gave us a free history lesson at the same time. Kept the video from having a ridiculous runtime and even put the sponsored ad at the end. I'll be looking forward to your next videos, keep it up!
Another irl example of unintended techinques in a game is baseball. For whatever reason, there was a point in the games history where stealing bases wasn't a thing. But that changed once a team from Pittsburgh decided that there was nothing in the rule book explicitly banning the practice, so they took advantage. People didnt like the new techinique, giving it the name of a stolen base (implying it wasnt won by legetimate means) and branding the team from Pittsburgh as the Pirates. The name stuck :)
I never comment, but just wanted to compliment how you connected the Korean Backdash to the historical development of dribbling in basketball. Stroke of genius. I loved it!
for more of these check past Core-A-Gaming videos :)
@@M4TTYN agree. Sad he doesnt upload anymore
@@skinnyskinny2676 *Pakistani Tekken*
@@Berd-Wasted.its been so long man
As a basketball player and a tekken player this is by far one of my favorite videos. I loved this one. Great comparison and analyzation from a player and developer standpoint. Cheers Core-A Gaming!
Analyzation
"But in 1897, the sweatlords over at yale "
Can’t wait to backwash in Smash
(Edit: omg I meant Korean backdash)
Congratulations Kazuya of being in Smash!
Hahahahhahahahahahahahahahahaa
Backwash lmao
@@VelvetVelva vrooo how did I not notice
Another example of emergent game play was a little known game called gunz online in the mid 2000s. A movement technique called kstyle completely changed the speed and pacing of the game. At the time, the exploit was viewed similarly as "requiring finger gymnastics to perform basic movement". Without kstyle though, the game would never have been as popular as it was at the time and indeed gunz 2 was nowhere near as popular and lacked the movement exploit that was popular in the original.
Tekken players: *Backdashes Koreanly
"Sweat lords at Yale"
Movement is the biggest thing for me when it comes to enjoying a fighting game, so things like KBD, wave/plink dashing, and airdashes are hella nice to have as options
This was a fire video! Very informative and tied into things I wasn’t expecting, and really changed my perspective on movement in games in general!
“The Korean back dash” sounds like a term that would mean “To back away and isolate yourself to end a dispute”
AYY ive seen you on globku's super baby 2 breakdown. A member of the FGC community I assume
That's the North Korean backdash.
@@SMRTMinako The Democratic People’s Backdash of North Korea
Backdash onto the rooftops during the 1992 L.A. peaceful protests by performing the roof korean backdash.
Like the irish exit lol.
JDCR said a while ago that learning KBD is not a "must". Which is just a situational technique. He also mentioned that not everyone knows when to apply KBD. The most important thing is to learn the fundamentals of Tekken.
Then KBD doesn't have the impact that dribbling did on Basketball?
I know that blasted salami has said that he’s tried to get some people into tekken once and they thought that the twitching seizures that tekken characters do looked stupid and made them think movement was unimportant, but the first time I saw tournament footage I thought it was really cool because it looked obvious that they were using some sort of advanced movement technique. It actually attracted me to the game.
movement isn't just backdash (little compare to old games) it's also sidestep and it's very weak in sense that every moves tracks like hell
I'll be honest I enjoy the visual spectacle that naturally comes with high-level play, and I feel as though Tekken's twitching seizures really does detract from that. I know for those involved in the scene it's par for the course and they don't bat an eye, I understand that there's complex technical depth behind what I'm seeing but it will never not look dumb to me.
@@3rdDanPrime Ye, but that's a T7 problem :(
Hope T8 will have stronger movement again and less emphasis on oppressive df1.
It's one of the reason why I hate Tekken.
In many fighting games movement is OK as it is. It's effective on its own. In Tekken so advanced techniques are necessary.
@@RanmaruRei movement is the core of Tekken. Its movement should not be, as easy as other fighters. The techniques are not unnecessary, they are just so much more powerful than in other fighters that it makes sense to make them harder to do. Having an easier option is fine (like ladder stepping or qcb), but the advanced techniques should always be better. The only super hard movement techniques are kbd and ss anyway. Maybe wavedash if you have a char with one (Bob, Hwo, Mishimas, etc.). And these aren't even needed until intermediate play.
I believe Jang Iksu was one of those koreans whom i’ve seen do it so flawlessly (TTT1), his movement back then was almost perfect. They should should make a tribute video about him.
This was a video i watched before i even knew anything about Tekken.
T7 was on sale a week after watching, and since then it’s become one of my favorite fighting games.
"Sir, all the players are using an input glitch to move at a reasonable speed in our games. Should we just change the move speed already?"
*"No."*
I mean, they changed the walk back animation. It used to be completely useless. Now you can actually get some whiffs with it.
They did remove backdash cancel in Tekken 4 lol.
While it was brought back later, games like Tekken 6 and Tekken 7 nerfed movement, so yeah lol.
@@Lukmendes I miss T5 movement
@@bennymountain1 dog what game are you playing? Single backdashing is so bad in T7.
The scrubs committee believes that the limitation of wavedashing is a necessary step in the best interests of me not throwing my controller.
Can you imagine though. What if Nintendo embraced Wavedashing and kept it in every iteration of smash since Melee. How much further would the game have evolved competitively if they were for exciting emergent gameplay rather than against it.
@@Gilthwixt1 that would suck so much
@@gusbabiski but why
@@Gilthwixt1 I don’t think that whether a smash game has wavedash or not really contributes to competitive potential. Especially because wavedash allowed for better movement but also complimented Melee’s physics engine. I mean the only reason it even happens is because of Melee’s physics engine I’m pretty sure. It would be weird to have it in Ultimate wouldn’t really feel right. Although you can waveland.
@@Gold_Red52 Wavedashing may be a quirk of the physics engine in Melee, but it doesn't have to be. Rivals of Aether was created with the wavedash in mind as an example, and it feels in my opinion a lot smoother to use than in Melee (which is to say it doesn't seem to break controllers or people's hands). If they smoothed out wavedashing and made it a regular movement option, similar to how games adopted move cancelling after Street Fighter 2 accidentally let you cancel normals into specials, then it could become much more casual friendly like RoA wavedashing already is.
Sweet music for the KBD explanation. There's an epic, old-school flash animation fight between Ken and Raiden with the same music. Brought back memories haha
Omfg, I literally just did this when I started playing the game and understood the feel of the game, I can't believe this whole time, i've been using a tech Koreans use in tournaments!
The additional explanation on IRL basket-ball mouvement "glitch" was more than welcome! Really enjoyed :)
Movement is exactly why I play Soul Calibur. The 8 way movement is what defines the whole game.
I still find it hard to believe that there was an entire decade and change where the devs thought that 8-way run was a "problem" to be addressed, so they made it 8-way crawl, instead. Glad they finally got their act together again with SC6. :)
and the korean backdash is literally sophitia’s angelstep but backwards
This is one of the reasons I prefer Soulcalibur over Tekken - because movement is immediately accessible and understood by most players. You aren't locked into constant inputs for efficiency, it's simple because it should be.
@@ThiefofCrystals if you are new to tekken, don't kbd. Instead do backdash, sidestep, backdash. Kbd won't make your footsie better all of sudden. Other things are more important for beginners to learn.
Unfortunately that a big problem with tekken, beginners think that learning some advanced things as necessary to play the game at a decent level, and even worse, they go online and get the impression that these things are fundamental and take priority to learning them.
Don't be fooled, kbd isn't necessary to learn at the beginning, and you should start learning it when you reach rank 20 online.
@@mmmk6322 While I do appreciate the advice the sheer fact that you're providing an alternative for movement - a sequence instead of an input - kinda proves my point. This conversation simply wouldn't happen in other fighting games and it frankly shouldn't.
“When the world needed him most, he returned.”
Not original
@@woozy1885 But true
@@woozy1885 he right tho
I'm genuinely sick of seeing this comment. When saying nothing puts everyone, including yourself, better off, you should not say anything.
@@Poet482 It is pretty tiring at this point.
Imagine being in the 1800's and be like YOOOO dribbling is OD!
them mfs would lose they minds elon gotta pass me a time machine tesla i wanna cross over 1800's mf's real quick 😂
In short: "Does the unintended technique improve or hurt the game?"
If improve, smooth it out. If hurt, patch it.
exactly this, the real solution is to make it so that you don't need to master fiddly inputs just to move backwards. Just make it so that you can move at the same speed with normal backdash spam
@@gogogagagugu2134 that's the issue with the FGC is catering to tryhard tournament players and regular casuals. Very difficult to make a game for both.
Just here to get versed on Tekken inputs before Kazuya releases :)
I love seeing Tekken getting more and more exposure, definitely a great thing to see so many people getting into this game
more exposure? sure not sold 6 million copies to around 50 million total but it growing with post on r/Tekken (feel how you do about reddit it's the pulse on things) pre hype of wallstreetbets.
@@M4TTYN I'm talking competitive tekken you should of seen tag2, we always had the lowest entrees at every tournament. I'm not really talking about how many people bought this game just to finish the campaign and let it collect dust on their shelf
"Oh boy, time to binge Core-A until I decide to go to bed because he uploaded!"
It's a pretty interesting historical analogy to have the KBD and dribbling, tho there's a lot more that could be drawn out of the implication, for one whether "Traveling" would be considered "casualized" version of dribbling, which is very much frowned upon and so on.
It's also worth differentiating that "who" is making the rules of dribbling (a big, institutional governing body), while, apparently, "outsiders' of the fgc have been very much pushing for lowering the technical skill ceiling/floor, across the board, and whether that's worth commenting on in community's reaction.
But I do agree most with your common theme/sentiment in most of your vids, that fighting games should be some sort of "metropolitan" amassment of variety, that, to quote another FGC youtuber Leon Massey, "Fighting Games are for Everyone™, but not EVERY game needs to be for EVERY one". While the concept of a fighting game is stereotypically competitive and requiring technical dexterity to learn, I do thing, being "unique perhaps at the cost of mainstream acceptability, or even accessability" is the concept Fighting Game has been tussling with for a long time that I hope actually becomes generally acceptable, at least in the way weird indie games like indie RPGmaker horror games, Eurojank Slavic Suffering Walking Sims, Rogue-lites so detached from the original Rogue and other niche genres with acceptance within the general gaming space, if not culture as a whole.
I agree that fighting games shouldn't necessarily be for everyone. However, I also think we should make moves and movement as intuitive and enjoyable to do as possibly can be while upholding the competitive and difficult integrety of the game. And personally, I feel wavedashing and to a degree, KBD shows a direction that the players want the game to move in, but they're also weighed down by being wonky and quirky instead of intuitive purely by being unintended input "exploits" rather than well implemented into the game proper in terms of input. If wavedashing and KBD is better than the current movement option, then imo the current ones should be replaced for those but the inputs should be as intuitive and fitting as the original limited options. Why? Because wavedashing and KBD essentially replaces the former options entirely, because these options are core universal aspects to movement and because you shouldn't be forced to resign to a wonky design quirk to be able to compete, even if some might've come to enjoy it in a niche way or grow the muscle memory for it. What the adoption of KBD tells us is that it's a strong option and possibly also that people prefer fast unlimited backdash to the limited one. So the clear option here is to make that the default option, but imo not to keep it behind complex inputs, especially considering not everyone uses stick.
@@Yous0147 I'm not sure where this argument originated from, but I hear/read it very often.
Wavedash does not replace a single cd and bdc does not replace a single backdash, just like how a single jab cannot be replaced by a 122/121/123/124 or whatever string. They all have their own unique purpose(s) as well as pros and cons.
@@Bilal44 Exactly wavedashing leaves you vulnerable/inactionable and while it's incredibly good for microspacing, dash dancing and even walking to an extent is just as important to neutral and spacing.
@@eliastew9636 What? The purpose of wavedashing is to make you move while being able to do any actions. The only drawback is that you lose the invincibility frames. (but you can block/dash if you need to).
And while the dribble is a good exemple on why we should keep the dash canceling technique in tekken it doesn't approach the problem people have about it.
People doesn't say it should be removed. People say it should be made accessible. To take the example of basket, it's like they kept dribble in games but you have to do the pass input every steps.
And with your logic you should ask for it. Because dribble has some drawback (people can take the ball while you dribble) so it's not exactly superior as just putting your foot forward.
It’s not talked about as much but dash dancing in melee is also a main difference from other smash games. It makes the gameplay rely on dashing and precise and nuanced spacing. The turn around animation is 1 frame so you can bait and draw attacks and manipulate space in a way that isn’t present in other smash titles. Add wavedashing and a world of feints and baits open up and make the game enjoyable and replayable for years.
this has officially become that channel that barely covers my interests in the slightest but I want to watch every video because they're presented so well
Edit: a word
join his streams too their hype.
@@M4TTYN sure
I had no idea about the Yale dribbling "scandal" when it came to basketball. The fact that you were able to reference it to how KBD fits and affects Tekken is pretty remarkable.
I agree with the analogy. I see the KBD as maybe "the crossover" dribble is today. There was a crossover before in basketball (it's point was purely to switch hands when you dribble). Around the 2000s players reinvented the crossover to cause other defenders difficulty guarding and staying in front them. They did this by keeping themselves low and shifting left to right rapidly. You didn't have to have a crossover but you are easier to guard without one. Same with KBD, you don't HAVE to know a KBD but you are easier to stay on top of without one. Both of these are examples of unique movements that changed the game.
Never played tekken in my life and this is the coolest shit I've ever seen.
How you zoom out of the topic to sport in gereral is so great storytelling. Really appreciated and learned something!
I can't believe it took me so many years to realize that the Core-A also stands for Korea
Learning this cool shit for when Kazuya comes out in smash. Thanks for the basketball lesson too, very neat.
getting ready for Kazuya in smash...needed to learn how to do this lol
Backdash ~ Sidestep ~ backdash, now even you at home can backdash cancel.
melee does the same thing with IASA (interuptable as soon as) where moves like marth's down tilt can be interupted early by doing a different move 10 frames or so before the animation for down tilt actually ends. Walking out of a down tilt lets you do another down tilt sooner if you slightly walk out of each one after doing it, canceling the animation early.
Walking here is redundant because you can just straight up downtilt out of IASA lol. A better example would be that you cannot directly shield out of IASA, so you buffer walk hold shield to get around this.
A fascinating video, as usual. Also, it’s probably the most concise, direct and easily digestible KBD tutorial I’ve seen. I wish this had existed 6 months ago when I was learning to KBD. It illustrates why tutorials need to be planned, have a script and be concise. I realise that isn’t the point of the video, just a happy side effect!
I get that but at the same time, I don't think the in game tutorial can get any better at teaching KBD as how some YT content has done. Especially utilizing KBD in a non-vacuum situation such as blocking and just doing KBD 3 times to get the spacing or until their opponent whiffs. Then you have to have the muscle memory to catch that and land a punish. It is also a concept that everyone TREATS in a vacuum (like many who complain about it) until they get the full grasp of tekken concepts such as spacing and punishment. Without it KBD is just moving backwards with no purpose and that is just as bad.
Great video, I wish there was a little bit more emphasis on being able to block while backdashing in Tekken. Tekken is only a fighting game where backdashing is completely safe and non-committal as you can cancel it before the end of the backdash.
I believe expanding on KBD alternatives, like backdash canceling (BD>SS>BD), and it's utility of additionally moving you away from the wall, are extremely helpful.
“Hand gymnastics to do basic movement”
SSB Melee: 🙈
wavedashing isnt that hard
@@reeseon10 not on its own, but being able to move smoothly while executing what you want is relatively hard for new players. And some old players...
@@reeseon10 wavedashing is only a portion of what is basic movement in competitive melee, although by far the most famous. L-cancelling, wavelanding, jump heights, tilt vs smash inputs, DI & SDI (debatabely not movement but without these you won't last with experienced players), SHFFLing, and I'm sure other tech I'm forgetting is all pretty much required to have ok control of your movement, before character specific movement is then taken into play as well (think ledgedashes/waveshines/moonwalk etc).
For most people, just L-cancelling consistently is a significant challenge, and tilt vs smash inputs as well. So the amount of time for most people to get competent enough at movement to play competitively and have any chance of not being steamrolled is a huge barrier to entry, and movement alone will not bring you up to the competitive skill floor- you need to get there with movement & then start applying it in neutral, advantage, disadvantage, and make it work with your character's moves. All together that's a very high skill floor compared to many past times. Oh, and it's all happening at a way faster pace than most people ever play games.
Of course all this doesn't mean Melee is bad or whatnot, it's a game like any other we play at the end of the day. This one just requires a massive dedication competitively, and then mix that with the communities you find in any group of people who all love one thing, and it can get toxic for many.
So yeah, Melee's movement standards competitively are pretty bonkers for most people. So is running a marathon, though.
@@KennyCnotG i barely read this but based off the first bit, i agree i just assumed he was referring to specifically wavedashing
@@Lumpycpu true
I kind of despise fighting games playing them but they're so interesting to learn about. Your videos are great!
I come back to this once in a while. It’s a really good video. Gj Core-A.
2:48 - EDF 4 is this in spades as well. There is a class that is so slow and cumbersome that you MUST learn how to do an exploit, involving selecting very specific weapons that allow to do an animation-cancel. If you do not do this, you legit have no chance in surviving the higher difficulties no matter how much health you have.
The producers basically admitted that "yeah, we knew it was a glitch, but we didn't want to patch it, but we felt the game needed it". And they were right; The Fencer class in EDF can be the funnest class to play because of it's learning curve.
Every other fighting game: Back back, back back, back back
Tekken: Back back, down back, neutral, back, down back, neutral, back...
Backwards Long Jump, Accelerated Back Hop, Korean Back Dash
These all have very different applications with similar results
People over emphasize the kbd. The important thing is understanding that movement in tekken gets canceled with any other direction except for the same direction. For example, you can cancel a sidestep with back to block, that way you get a weaker sidestep that will be enough to dodge weak tracking moves but will block moves that are slower but tracks well. You can do quarter circle down repeatedly to get multiple sidesteps in a row. If you get excellent fast execution, you can micro dash forward and follow it up with backdashs masked with approaching forward dash, all to play a stronger game of footsies. This is one of the core aspects of Tekken, footsies is tied to execution. If you can't input directions with the right timing and rhythm, understand how and when to sidestep, block, dash and backdash, you basically won't be able to play a good footsie game. And footsie in tekken is the strongest skill to have.
That basketball analogy was tier 1
A cool video idea would be the different ways acrade stick levers are held and it's advantages/disadvantages
I haven’t played T7 in awhile. I need to start again. What a great game. So glad it’s thriving.
Big opportunity to talk about James Harden's step backs here!
Dude I have an orange Tabby too! His name is Nacho and he’s mah boy! Great video as always. Thank you. The Korean backdash is similar to a short jazz phrase
Guess I'm the only one that wanted to see busted NBA JAM movement exploits.
NBA Jam's exploit was that if you were ahead, goal tending was a viable way to play defense. At worse you only surrender 2 points and if your team can shoot the 3ball as well or you get the 'he's on fire buff', you have control of the game.
There is another game that has a very clear parallel example with one distinct difference.
In rocket league at release, when you jumped off the ground there was a timer on your second jump, which could be a second standard jump or a directional flip called a dodge. The timer was 1.25 seconds if you tapped the first jump or 1.45 seconds if you held it. These were the longest possible values you could ever have in the game for jump timings. Psyonix added Neo Tokyo about 1 year in to the game, which had raised sides and they changed the mechanic around jump timings that, if you drove off this raised side without doing your first jump you had an infinite time after the take off to use a second jump or dodge. This basically invented the celing shot and the flip reset, where players will jump to the ceiling from the wall and land all 4 wheels on it, to fall off and follow the ball with an infinite dodge timer and have the ability to shoot whenever they want, allowing much more ability for reactive dodging based on what your defender was doing. the flip reset is also now in too, which is basically hit the ball with all 4 wheels to give yourself a dodge and a great chance to take a hard to read shot at the enemy.
Its something extremely high skilled that has made the game far more exciting but it was never truly intended to create these situations and the main difference is that it wasnt in the game at its first release, so is something that has been changed by updating the game.
3:25 This newspaper edit to fit with the toxic comment at 2:39 was amazing.
finally, a upload yay
can't rush quality.
One of my favorite things about platform fighters is how the best of them have a kinda "physics sandbox/playground" where so much depth of the game is just figured out by the community. So many moves in Rivals of Aether can give momentum, be cancelled, and carry that momentum in unique and interesting ways.
I wish there were more unique movement- based moves too, like samus downb goomy zoomy or etalus dashattack
Because the stages actually matter in platform fighters. It adds depth and identity to their otherwise simple combat in contrast to a traditional fighter's usual plain stage layout but complex fighting mechanics. Though at times the larger the stage's scale is, the more imbalanced it becomes. Which is why arena fighters are understandably looked down upon since all of them are just broken. Except for Power Stone.
And here I thought you were going to refer to Tribe's frictionless "skiing" mechanic.
I love that fight stick art.
Nothing like Highschool Juri to give you extra motivation during a fight.
The transition from tekken to basketball is so legendary that i forgot i was watching a vid about back dashing
Me and my friends used to always do it long before anyone ever heard of Korean back dash. We learned it because of Paul's slides. Though we didn't know it was anything special, we just thought it was just part of the game.
This is an interesting video and I very much appreciate the equivalence made between dribbling and KBD, but there's more to consider here I feel. With KBD and wave dashing or any other unintended designs in a game, it can sometimes come off positively or negatively, sometimes it's an exploit, other time it's unintended but fortunate design. You really have to look at the end product of it and see how it affects the game and the players. If KBD is popular and people find it fun and fulfilling then it doesn't make sense to remove it, but at the same time it doesn't make sense to have players be gatekept from using it by having it mechanically quirky or tough to do. The problem with KBD isn't that it should be removed then, rather it's that it should be made the "default" dash option instead when pushing back back, because what KBD shows is that the limited backdash isn't as fun or interesting (in theory anyway). The original principles behind making backdash limited was twofold: 1. Make backdashing intuitive and simple, essentially because it's to be a universal tool, 2. Limit it so that backdash doesn't become unfun/stupid/broken. KBD and the wide adoption and enjoyment of it challenges principle 2, but not principle 1 and at the cost of principle 1. It's the same problem wavedashing has, a fighting game's inputs should be as intuitive and seamless to understand as can be from motion to move on the screen, wavedashing and KBD, as they are now, complicates that and makes you need to force your brain to submit to a design quirk in order to compete. These kinds of moves only makes sense to us now because we have forced ourselves to build the muscle memory for it, but I would argue that a game is more enjoyable the more intuitive and sound the input fits with the motion on screen.
Many fighting game players don't understand that execution doesn't add depth to a game and just serves to make the game unnecessarily difficult to input. In many cases, what strategy is lost by removing the execution can be added through a different means, or what strategy being lost being mostly irrelevant. I think fantasy strike does this very well. It gets guile's charge moves and puts it on a character where moving forward loses the charge. This makes it so it still applies the movement restriction (the strategic limitations) of the original move, but removes the execution so more people can use it.
@@toowiggly Both of you are spot on
I would've hoped the comparison to dribbling would've helped people know why this isn't a good point but here we are, I guess. When bad basketball players are tilted or mentally fatigued, dribbling is one of the first things that suffers. You either pat the ball too hard so it bounces unpredictably, don't catch the ball properly so it ends up slipping out of your possession, or you try dribbling slowly to offset that and you just lose possession. Dribbling is interesting because it requires constant dexterity and spatial awareness from the player. What you're saying in your post is the same as someone saying "Basketball wasn't designed around these sweatlords being able to run while maintaining possession, so either they should remove dribbling from the game, or allow everybody to run with the ball without gatekeeping the rest of us". KBD is an interesting mechanic _because_ you can fuck it up.
Also making it more "intuitive" would lead to low-level Tekken being a turtle fest of everybody poking and running away, lessening the casual appeal the game is generally really good for.
@@toowiggly It may not add depth to the game, but it add the excitement to people watching when they know it's not the easy thing to do. It's the same thing why watching LoL tournament isn't as fun as watching DotA tournament.
If I want to see strategy only I should have just gone watching RTS or Go instead of fighting game. Execution is what make esport exciting to watch, be it FPS, Sport, Fighting game or MOBA.
Last point is, all those "technique" exists because the players discovered it. You basically just asked that developer should let everyone be able to do the technique that didn't exist when the game came out. Imagine that Fenritti discovered the counter vanish combo recently and it requires some accuracy input, then some people saying "that technique is hard, everyone should be able to do it".
@@CaptainHandsome I know, I understood that point, I'm just saying they're not entirely equivalent. Dribbling works well and is intuitive to do, so every beginner who sees it being done can do it themselves (1) very easily and intuitively, and it brings about a (2) more interesting flow to the game that's different. KBD brings about a more interesting flow to the game that's interesting (2) but it is not intuitive unles if you've forced yourself to build the muscle memory for it (x1). There's a difference between what people wanted with basketball at the time and what people want with backdashing now, they aren't equivalent even if the narratives line up neatly, you have to look at their actual effect on the game, asses and balance that. There's also the interesting quirk tht in a game, you can decide the physics beyond the mechanics but I digress. Just consider KBD for a moment, it's a move everyone should be able to do to compete competently. That, I feel is analogues to normal dribbling (i.e. bouncing the ball up and down with your hand) which in basketball isn't at all difficult to do, it's actually very intuitive and easy and the movement options are informed through where the ball is bouncing. KBD is, in my view, more similar to if you circumvented the rules by dribbling behind your back (which some people do enjoy doing), then people found out it was fun to dribble, but people still want it to stay only behind your back because that is more challenging and works with the current rules. Then the newcomers and casual players can learn and play by passing to each other, but the ones who try to compete at any level will have to deal with dribbling behind their backs even if it doesn't feel as intuitive to them as dribbling in front of them. I get that a fighting game's motions need to have some difficulty and dexterity behind them, but I feel it's important to asses what move should be complex and what move shouldn't, and backdashing is core to your movement so it should be something people can access to a fair degree. What you lose by making people able to do KBD through back back, simplifying it, is that it becomes easier to do, yes, but what you gain is that it opens up the playing field such that even beginners and casuals can actually learn and intuite KBD backdashing through natural play, and maybe eventually compete because they can focus on learning other aspects of the game that better warants difficult and advanced motions and inputs.
They even named a country after it hotdamn
Koreans are the best in tekken for a long time and now going toe to toe with Pakistan
I never would have thought I would hear the term sweatlords and Yale in the same sentence.
this is the first video I found that explained the kbd inputs thank you
6 months no video, I'm sad
LEON MASSEY AND CORE A UPLOADING THE SAME DAY WHAT DID I DO TO DESERVE THIS
are you doing alright Core-A? I recently subscribed and I hope you keep going with the awesome material
That's actually insane that dribbling wasn't in the game before. I love stuff like that. Love when people break the game makes me go why didn't I think of that.
I lowkey kinda want to see these older style basketball rules implemented in games like when NBA Street had different rule-sets that were either street-based or NBA based. I would also like to see pro NBA players, do some kind of exhibition matches using these olden rules.
After having practiced it, KBD also seems like an exploit to get carpal tunnel faster.
HEAVILY UNDERRATED COMMENT JESUS! 😂☠️
The "Yale dribbling ruins basketball" headline made my day lmao
came for this comment 😂😂🤣🤣🤣
Come back, my boy. ;_;
Games that require practice & patience to improve overall by implementing harder techniques to master in-game are by far the most fun games to play imo.
Just bought my first Tekken game (8) because my friends are into it. Coming from a SSBM background wave dashing and kbd are surprisingly similar. I'm enjoying Tekken so far and would like to continue to learn it