*Historian:* "And so the Empire was fractured after the assassination of the Skaven Slayer." *Student:* "Who were the Skaven?" *Historian:* "Just some myth, I dunno."
@@arthenosthefirst8176 *Historian:* "And even if they were real they're not anymore, yes yes." *Student:* "Oh my, teacher, what long whiskers you have."
I know this is a joke comment but just to add some lore context - in Skavenslayer it's mentioned that lots of Imperial scholars believe that the Skaven did at some point exist but then went extinct - while others think that the "Skaven" were just a type of Beastmen that were misidentified. So while they have an Emperor literally called "Skavenslayer" many still believe that the "Skaven" aren't actually a thing anymore.
@@WoodStoveification My only issue is that surely there are longer lived individuals (Dwarves, Elves, etc) who literally saw them. Granted, Holocaust deniers are a thing, I suppose. The Empire's gonna have it's conspiracy theorists.
Kroak is a great character that should have had multiple series based around. So many great characters never got the love they should have. Don’t get me wrong, I loved Gotrek and Felix and Karl Franz, Archeon, Settra, and Nagash, but there were so many other people and places they could have explored. Hell, I want a book about some peasant warrior in Bretonnia, or a servant in the empire. Short stories about average people trying to survive in a world of extreme violence and depravity. I am really excited for the new Lords of the Lance book, bretonnia has been my primary army for 31 years, but I hope they go deeper.
I like that the Orcs and Goblins stowed away on the Silver Ships. I presume that's how the Skaven made it to Warhammer World too. "... Nagash, in search of his old hat." 😄😄😄😄 1979 - Magritta is elected Emperor 😂😂Thatcher's influence weighed heavy on the early years of Warhammer. Thank you for entertaining dive in to the can of wyrms that is the Olde Worlde Lore. Ian's lore videos strike a great balance between information and brevity.
Yeah it was a fun tidbit I didn't know before:) The Skaven were created when the bell of Tylos rang, birthing the Horned Rat and mutated the population into the first rat men, at least in the old lore. Tylos was located right where Skavenblight is now.
I think Magritta is also a reference to Matilda, the daughter of Henry I whose throne was seized by her cousin, starting a civil war known as the Anarchy.
Yeah, I skirted around this because while the Tylos lore is in the new book, it doesn't EXPLICITLY say that the story is the same. It probably is though.
@@Mugdorna No, this is different. The Empire is modeled on the Holy Roman Empire, and is deliberately decentralized and complicated, yes, but the Holy Roman Empire never had a period where for generations and generations there were multiple emperors all contending for the throne. The Empire from Warhammer evidently had that.
@@nakenmil Well, i think this period may be modelled after the 'Three Emperors' period in old Roman Empire... also; even the real life old Roman Empire only lasted around 800 years; in this fantasy setting things go for mutch longer; elves life for milenia and dwarves for centuries... and technollogy barelly advances in all that time.
as far as im aware theyre planning on making them a real army in old world eventually so they planted the seeds of the basic lore already in the core book
I only really became aware of Warhammer after the start of the Age of Sigmar, and even then almost entirely focused on 40k. All my knowledge of this stuff comes from Total War Warhammer. It’ll be nice to explore this new old new place!
Which is funny, the old GW top brass knew absolutely NOTHING about Total War's fanbase and that franchise's rule over the strategy genre in PC games at the time, it was just another licensing deal for them. They did no marketing except to brick and mortar shops. They ended the original WHF an started AoS not long before Total Warhammer 3 was going to erupt its popularity. When you hear about GW doing basically NO market research? That's one of their biggest examples.
@@DetectiveLance LOLwot? TW series came years after AoS, and if anything, they did all the heavy lifting, not the shitty old game, getting rid of all the terrible and clunky 80s mechanics. If TW decided to do AoS instead, this game would get a surge of popularity now, it had nothing to do with "quality" of WFB as the game died for a reason...
@@KuK137 But still, lore of Warhammer fantasy is absolutely fantastic. A bit of phenomenon i must say, its unoriginal, full of stereotypes, ridiculous and yet completely genius at the same time. AOS is also complete lunacy, but also very fun
It’s so great to finally return to the Old World. Although my Middenland army with Reiksguard and a Celestial Wizard will need some retooling given it’s prequel nature. Part of me wonders if they considered simply just continuing the alt timeline that storm of chaos established as opposed to go all prequels.
Would you like a setting where Horus lays siege to Terra for eternity? No. All these are just events of one timeline, facts of history. Old World lore is specifically built as the Horus Heresy for the Age of Sigmar.
I see lots of people talking about the "alternate timeline" for Storm of Chaos. I am pretty sure the Storm of Chaos has just been retconned, much like many of the events of the the original Eye of Terror campaign (Eldrad Ulthuan being dead, for example). Like... technically anyone can continue to run games in the post Storm of Chaos timeline (I ran a whole roleplaying campaign in it), but I don't think it has a status like Blood Bowl's setting where GW consider it to have an official status as an "alternative world", or at least I have never come across anything that suggests that.
This has actually been really helpful as I’ve been searching for a fairly concise summary of the history of the OW for a while now to explain the lore to new players in a WHF RPG campaign
@@martinconway8174Aenarion, living avatar of 2 gods and the first Phoenix King he would be mightily disappointed in his son (but apparently he never had much time for him… he was busy killing demons all the time)
@@martinconway8174 Malarion is what Malekith was renamed for Age of Sigmar. Aenarion was Malekith's dad and no character named Malarion existed in the old lore. This is just a name swap for Malekith.
It's interesting to hear this fluff for Cathay I have never come across that I presume was made for Total War. Like all the stuff regarding the Elves and Dwarves is familiar (even if the details might be increased or slightly tweaked), but when you mentioned "Celestial Dragon", I was "What? That's never been a thing before."
Wrong. Cathay, Nippon and Ind were a thing before, they were just mentioned in passing (but they had big influence on Skaven for one, where do you think Skaven 'ninja' came from?). What, you think TW just invented them for no reason?
@@KuK137 erm... where did I say Cathay, Ind and Nippon didn't exist before? However, as you say, they were always mentioned in passing and basically no detail was given for them. Hence, a lot of extra fluff was made up for Cathay when they fleshed them out for Total War: Warhammer III. I presume this includes this stuff about a Celestial Dragon, as it is something I have never heard before, and have never seen on any of the timelines of Warhammer history I have read in rulebooks and army books (all published before Total War: Warhammer III). Oh... right, I guess what I wrote was a little ambiguously worded. However I was meaning I had never come across *this fluff* (which I presumed was created for the computer game) for Cathay, not that I had not come across Cathay.
@@KuK137I got into WHFB about 1998 and cathay and nippon were BARELY mentioned ever. The odd sentence across literally all the rule and army books was as good as it got. I also don’t remember either being mentioned in any novel until total war. So, your reply was unnecessary, and inaccurate 👍🏻
@@triangulan Yes! The Immortal Celestial God Dragon Emperor of Cathay and his family of immortal dragons (not primarchs totally) were invented exclusively for Total War. Before this, "Dragon Emperor" was simply the title of a mortal ruler, of whom there were many but never named. As I heard, it was the mortal ruler who was killed by Grimgor at the End Times. So here is a 100% retcon based on a video game
@@Vasily_Kotickovitch Sorry, but not really. I did read about the 'Dragon Emperor'; and him been an inmortal ruler(rumored he could be a vampire... but also that he could transform into a dragon) LONG before Total War. I don't know if it was in a rulebook, in the 'Scripts of Nuln' or in some White Dwarf... I would have to spent days re-reading to find it... and I cannot accelerate the search on the internet cause the new lore based in Total War is everywhere... ...BUT I can assure without any doubt that some of this element where actually present in the Warhammer Fantasy Role Playing Game (basically D&D set in Warhammer) published in the 86... I don't know if Cathai was presented in that edition, or maybe in the 2005 2nd edittion or maybe even later; but LOTS of the elemnts that Total War re-used where allready present in thoose games. I found someone who pointed the elements Games Whorkshop had stablished about Cathai long before the TW videogames: * It was THE biggest, THE most powerful, THE richest and THE most culturally advanced human nation on the planet. They were able to launch an attempted major invasion of the Southlands sending huge fleets to attack it from both the east and the west-- only for the force they sent east to end up in Lustria and for both fleets to be totally crushed by the Lizardmen. They have also sent major invasions all the way out west only for it to be also destroyed due to bad timing/luck. Nonetheless countless people from the Empire, Southern Realms and Araby brave the roads that lead to Cathay in a desperate attempt to gain some of the wealth that is there and bring it home-- even though traveling those roads carries a good 50% or so chance that you are going to be eaten by a monster. * It was ruled by someone called the "Dragon Emperor" and there were rumors he was immortal and could turn into a dragon. * And yet there was also this guy called the Monkey King who at some point managed to take over and was "The Dragon Emperor" for a time and had deals with Skaven. * Clan Eshin learned their stealth/asssassination tactics from them. They might also have been the source of the Jezzails (it was either them or Araby). * Cathay had living constructs made of terracotta, gun powder weapons and powerful magic. * Ogres and Cathay were allies and much of Ogre society and technology was shaped by them, but when the Ogres started eating Cathayans-- the alliance broke up. * Cathay has frequent wars with the Hobgoblins, but manages to keep them out. Oddly one Hobgoblin commander was convinced that he could switch to the Cathay side at any time and be accepted.... he did so and turned out to have gambled wrong. * Cathay's astromancers almost certainly created the Great Maw when they performed a ritual to bring an asteroid down on the Ogre's head in an attempt to wipe them out. * There were Tzeentch cults in Cathay, to the degree that one visitor from the west got the impression that they were somewhat tolerated and/or had corrupted some at even the highest levels. * There are apparently monkeypeople living there, probably the same monkeypeople mentioned in Ind. * It's almost certainly where one of the "missing" vampire bloodlines is.
I knew disjointed snippets of the old world lore, great to see it all put together with the year countdown in a coherent timeline. Thank you Ian for another excellent video, saved for future reference 😀
playing warhammer fantasy roleplay was my introduction before ever delwing deeper into 40k, I never played any tabletop games but always role played and read the books.
Yes... I too was waiting for that juicy little nugget to be at least mentioned, but seeing as GW had chosen to ignore the Mordheim game and leave it in the hands of its fans, I'm ok with it. After all, to properly explain and do it justice he'd have to dedicate an entire vid to it alone. Stay strong Mordheimers!!! 💀❤
Even though I have never been able to play any of these war games, I really enjoyed this, since it adds some nice background to games like Total War: Warhammer 2, which I enjoy playing. Though I know from what you explained towards the end that is probably not so much based on what you covered here, since that is more set in the Warhammer Fantasy setting.
@@ArbitorIan That's what I mean, this gives some good background, since now I have a better idea who Sigmar is and some of the general history of the world. Mostly it's just characters like Karl Franz etc. that haven't shown up yet.
Fantastic job covering the history Ian! You must have really been on top of this, to release it so quickly. Super excited to (hopefully) see some beastmen models. Until then, I'll probably busy myself painting some Bretonians up. (never enjoyed playing them, but they were a delight to paint.) Thank you Arbitor Ian, as always!
Cracking effort Ian. Once again, thanks so much for simplifying the plethora of background data, especially as the hardcover rulebook is unavailable just 24 hours after being listed, as is the core box. What hope for those of us trying to be loyal customers ...
I think you recorded your voice on the wrong source. Thank you for the great video. I am so glad there are great WH channels like yours since I started warhammer with the TTS series and miss a lot of lore.
A nostalgic reminder of the old lore for the most part. I really enjoyed thid foray back to The Old World, I hope you continue your content on it in your own style!
Recently got back into Warhammer via 40k after a 20 year or so gap. I used to collect Vampire Counts as a kid (right around the time Valten was popping off and the end times appeared to be coming) and I loved my WFB army and the game itself. When I came back into the hobby I looked up what had been happening with WFB and was a little surprised to see it had been rebranded. Since then I've been trying to piece together how the two are linked and what the lore is in relation to WFB. This was a great recap of all the lore from this beloved setting; would definitely enjoy more Old World videos & lore from you!
YES. THANK YOU. I have loved the 40k universe for a couple years now but struggled, for whatever reason, to break into Fantasy/The Old World (despite most of my 40k friends getting into Warhammer bc of fantasy or having played fantasy)
Awesome job man. I'm just barely getting into warhammer and I'm loving the lore so far. I think only thing that makes it a little confusing is trying to differentiate from old world, AOS, and fantasy battle. This video helps me understand where I stand for old world at least.
Total warhammer did a lot to revive this setting. too bad they didn't decide to keep investing in it because it could be quite the bigger money maker now.
I was never an "old world" player (with the slight exception of Warhammer Quest - But my Quest Master fudged the back story A LOT) and this is the first time someone has held my interest in the story. I can't wait for more info from you!
In fairness to your quest master, WHQ backstory ended up a fudge in general, as the fantasy battle lore got revised. WHQ was set when Emperor Karl Franz was bed-ridden and slowly dying, with the elector counts jockeying for position to succeed him. Then the model of Karl Franz on griffon released and the Empire became a (mostly) united nation under a strong leader and WHQ's setting never happened. The retcon may have even happened during development of WHQ; I'm fairly sure quest released in '95 and the KF mini was definitely out by October of that year.
As a salty nerd: They can change and redact and tell what they like, the strength of the setting in general is that we can choose what we want it to be. Like a big puzzle that may or may not make sense. Eg, I don't like how they put Primaris into 40k, but I can still like them as the better minis, accept them as the status quo of a SM army, and honestly, they are the better "heroic" frame for what they want to tell. Or something xD Anyway: Nice comprehension, tyvm :D
You're doing great work Ian! I've been a 40k guy but have always looked time to time at WFB and AOS from time to time and this was helpful. While it's a HH topic, Have you ever thought of tackling the Primarchs who had problems with their Terran born sons? I thought that was interesting as The Lion, Corax, and Mortarion all seem to take issue with the son's not from their founding planets.
Great video and so good explained! Now I'm so exited to start a lot of new total war Warhammer campaigns. One question, did malekith get renamed in malerion?
I really enjoyed this video! Do you think you’ll expand from 40k to more AoS or Old world lore? Love your style a lot and would love to hear you talk about those settings
Can't wait to be able to listen. I will always be hyped for lore. And Fantasy stuff will be great But oof if gws announcement that half the game is obsolete before it's even out for many players is a real killer of excitement.
It wouldn’t surprise me if this was a commercial scope decision and if the old world proves popular, they expand the setting to include some of those factions in later editions
Gods I missed this world. Malekith becoming Malerion for copyright reasons and the very concept of a year 0 in a calendar are oddities I'd need time to adjust to, but kinda feels good to be back. 😅
I now need to adjust to the knowledge that there's no year 0 in the gregorian calendar. Always just assumed it was there. And they try to tell me wargaming isn't educational...
18:30 wait, isn't that Leontus, Lord Commander Solar of the Astra Militarum in the middle of that pic? 😋 Great video, I thought it would be almost impossible to get a general overview of the setting given how many decades of fluff it has, but you've done a fantastic job here!
Thank you that clears the timeline up. It looks like they have chosen to do the 'first battle of Chaos' were Tyrion and Teclis defeat the Chaos and Dark Elf army that was ramaging through Ulthuran and Kislev. Then Teclis goes on to create the colleges of magic in the Empire.
With this starting point and the background story in mind, it would actually be logical if the various factions within the Empire were more clearly elaborated than in the previous editions and if there were also a separate army book for each part of the Empire?
Agree! A lot of us anticipated this might be the case when the era of the setting was announced a couple of years ago. Hasn’t transpired that way yet, but the ‘armies of infamy’ mechanic they have introduced, (basically alternative army lists) leaves a lot of potential for this sort of thing to be explored if this new edition gets the development it deserves (fingers crossed)!
Always happy to hear more from Warhammer Fantasy! I've been missing this game and I think this is an interesting time in a great setting. I hope the Old World finds a player base and GW doesn't just treat it like one of its specialist systems.
What struck out to me was the name Malerion. That's not what his name is supposed to be at this time. Throughout all of Warhammer Fantasy Battles he was always Malekith. Malerion is his new name in Age of Sigmar when he becomes a god or something. Did they really call him Malerion in the timeline itself in this?
I had heard a theory that he was renamed because of Marvel comics having a character with the same name. If that is the reason for the name change, it would explain it being renamed here too.
Malekith is a Marvel character, so Disney property. If Disney strike GW, GW won't survive. Obviously they won't sacrifice themselves for a couple of disgruntled grognards. Rumors also say that in Age of Sigmar 4E there will soon be a reworking of Skaven, new Chaos Dwarves and dark elves of Malerion.
@@Basil_Ghothickovitch GW would actually likely survive a lawsuit since they've been using the name for close to 30 years and Marvel never did anything. Would be annoying as hell to deal with it, take a long time and be quite costly too but they'd survive. Plus he's been Malekith in recent Warhammer media like Total War: Warhammer too and I haven't heard of them getting into any legal trouble with that so who knows. Certainly possible that they're being extra careful.
@@bigfinn1652Malekith first appears in Marvel in 1984. While they did not do a lot with him, they used him as the antagonist for Thor - The Dark Age. A legal fight might be more costly and not get the desired result as just changing things for this new version.
In the Darkness of the old past there was Re-branding !
Isn't this "Rebanding 2: Nagash Boogaloo: The Rebrandenating"?
Yeah… MELARION 😂
You mean rebasing?
Let's see if the game is an improvement over previous editions.
There’s money in old things!!
*Historian:* "And so the Empire was fractured after the assassination of the Skaven Slayer."
*Student:* "Who were the Skaven?"
*Historian:* "Just some myth, I dunno."
"somethign that doesn't exist anymore because the SkavenSlayer killed them all"
@@arthenosthefirst8176
*Historian:* "And even if they were real they're not anymore, yes yes."
*Student:* "Oh my, teacher, what long whiskers you have."
I know this is a joke comment but just to add some lore context - in Skavenslayer it's mentioned that lots of Imperial scholars believe that the Skaven did at some point exist but then went extinct - while others think that the "Skaven" were just a type of Beastmen that were misidentified. So while they have an Emperor literally called "Skavenslayer" many still believe that the "Skaven" aren't actually a thing anymore.
@@WoodStoveification
My only issue is that surely there are longer lived individuals (Dwarves, Elves, etc) who literally saw them. Granted, Holocaust deniers are a thing, I suppose. The Empire's gonna have it's conspiracy theorists.
@@arthenosthefirst8176 I know it's not, but somehow this is making me think "Doomguy with a hate-on for Ratbois" and... I'm kinda here for it tbh?
Ah, Kroak. A frog so powerful he died, decided he didn't much care for it and just stopped being dead.
I guess you could say, Lord Kroak lived up to his name and finally croaked.
@@guitarpop Lord Kroak uncroaked
Kroak is a great character that should have had multiple series based around. So many great characters never got the love they should have. Don’t get me wrong, I loved Gotrek and Felix and Karl Franz, Archeon, Settra, and Nagash, but there were so many other people and places they could have explored.
Hell, I want a book about some peasant warrior in Bretonnia, or a servant in the empire. Short stories about average people trying to survive in a world of extreme violence and depravity.
I am really excited for the new Lords of the Lance book, bretonnia has been my primary army for 31 years, but I hope they go deeper.
The cameo by the Sylvania Family at 17:30 made me laugh.
I was dying. 😂😂
Devastated that the destruction of Mordheim in 1999 doesn't even merit a mention :D Great work as always, Ian!
You can't tell Mordheim without races GW is trying to pretend don't exist any more. ;)
Aaah Mordheim...... if we rant enough.. it might return ? :)
I like that the Orcs and Goblins stowed away on the Silver Ships. I presume that's how the Skaven made it to Warhammer World too.
"... Nagash, in search of his old hat." 😄😄😄😄
1979 - Magritta is elected Emperor 😂😂Thatcher's influence weighed heavy on the early years of Warhammer.
Thank you for entertaining dive in to the can of wyrms that is the Olde Worlde Lore. Ian's lore videos strike a great balance between information and brevity.
Yeah it was a fun tidbit I didn't know before:)
The Skaven were created when the bell of Tylos rang, birthing the Horned Rat and mutated the population into the first rat men, at least in the old lore. Tylos was located right where Skavenblight is now.
Thanks. @@Yurt_enthusiast7
Me too! I thought that was an excellent addition to the lore. 🤣 The Krork are freaking everywhere!
I think Magritta is also a reference to Matilda, the daughter of Henry I whose throne was seized by her cousin, starting a civil war known as the Anarchy.
Yeah, I skirted around this because while the Tylos lore is in the new book, it doesn't EXPLICITLY say that the story is the same. It probably is though.
You know, I don't I ever quite realized that the Empire spent A THOUSAND YEARS as a disunited rabble.
Pretty much like the Holy Roman Empire in Medieval Europe.
Germany was only fully unified in 1870.
@@Mugdorna No, this is different. The Empire is modeled on the Holy Roman Empire, and is deliberately decentralized and complicated, yes, but the Holy Roman Empire never had a period where for generations and generations there were multiple emperors all contending for the throne. The Empire from Warhammer evidently had that.
@@nakenmil Well, i think this period may be modelled after the 'Three Emperors' period in old Roman Empire... also; even the real life old Roman Empire only lasted around 800 years; in this fantasy setting things go for mutch longer; elves life for milenia and dwarves for centuries... and technollogy barelly advances in all that time.
Looks like there's a few Cathay references here and there, that's pretty cool
as far as im aware theyre planning on making them a real army in old world eventually so they planted the seeds of the basic lore already in the core book
Really wish thay add nippon, ind and kuresh too even if only as aux
I only really became aware of Warhammer after the start of the Age of Sigmar, and even then almost entirely focused on 40k. All my knowledge of this stuff comes from Total War Warhammer. It’ll be nice to explore this new old new place!
Which is funny, the old GW top brass knew absolutely NOTHING about Total War's fanbase and that franchise's rule over the strategy genre in PC games at the time, it was just another licensing deal for them. They did no marketing except to brick and mortar shops. They ended the original WHF an started AoS not long before Total Warhammer 3 was going to erupt its popularity.
When you hear about GW doing basically NO market research? That's one of their biggest examples.
@@DetectiveLance you seem to have mixed up the timeline a bit, AoS came out in 2015, one year before the first Total War Warhammer game.
Well just use Total War Warhammer without the three and th statement still tracks no?@@dantheultimate2497
@@DetectiveLance LOLwot? TW series came years after AoS, and if anything, they did all the heavy lifting, not the shitty old game, getting rid of all the terrible and clunky 80s mechanics. If TW decided to do AoS instead, this game would get a surge of popularity now, it had nothing to do with "quality" of WFB as the game died for a reason...
@@KuK137 But still, lore of Warhammer fantasy is absolutely fantastic. A bit of phenomenon i must say, its unoriginal, full of stereotypes, ridiculous and yet completely genius at the same time. AOS is also complete lunacy, but also very fun
It’s so great to finally return to the Old World. Although my Middenland army with Reiksguard and a Celestial Wizard will need some retooling given it’s prequel nature.
Part of me wonders if they considered simply just continuing the alt timeline that storm of chaos established as opposed to go all prequels.
Would you like a setting where Horus lays siege to Terra for eternity? No. All these are just events of one timeline, facts of history.
Old World lore is specifically built as the Horus Heresy for the Age of Sigmar.
I see lots of people talking about the "alternate timeline" for Storm of Chaos. I am pretty sure the Storm of Chaos has just been retconned, much like many of the events of the the original Eye of Terror campaign (Eldrad Ulthuan being dead, for example). Like... technically anyone can continue to run games in the post Storm of Chaos timeline (I ran a whole roleplaying campaign in it), but I don't think it has a status like Blood Bowl's setting where GW consider it to have an official status as an "alternative world", or at least I have never come across anything that suggests that.
This has actually been really helpful as I’ve been searching for a fairly concise summary of the history of the OW for a while now to explain the lore to new players in a WHF RPG campaign
Me, a player of the old Fantasy Battle, watching this: Mhm, everything seems to be in order.
Malarion
Me: Now hang on!
It also should be noted that Malekith himself was in favour of being passed over in favour of Bel-Shanaar at that point.
My guess is trying to avoid copyright infringement with Disney
So was Malarion not a guy before? I thought he would be Malekiths dad or something
@@martinconway8174Aenarion, living avatar of 2 gods and the first Phoenix King he would be mightily disappointed in his son (but apparently he never had much time for him… he was busy killing demons all the time)
@@martinconway8174 Malarion is what Malekith was renamed for Age of Sigmar. Aenarion was Malekith's dad and no character named Malarion existed in the old lore. This is just a name swap for Malekith.
Really enjoyed this. There’s so much information in those lore pages, but you did a great job of picking out the highlights and presenting it.
It's interesting to hear this fluff for Cathay I have never come across that I presume was made for Total War. Like all the stuff regarding the Elves and Dwarves is familiar (even if the details might be increased or slightly tweaked), but when you mentioned "Celestial Dragon", I was "What? That's never been a thing before."
Wrong. Cathay, Nippon and Ind were a thing before, they were just mentioned in passing (but they had big influence on Skaven for one, where do you think Skaven 'ninja' came from?). What, you think TW just invented them for no reason?
@@KuK137 erm... where did I say Cathay, Ind and Nippon didn't exist before? However, as you say, they were always mentioned in passing and basically no detail was given for them. Hence, a lot of extra fluff was made up for Cathay when they fleshed them out for Total War: Warhammer III. I presume this includes this stuff about a Celestial Dragon, as it is something I have never heard before, and have never seen on any of the timelines of Warhammer history I have read in rulebooks and army books (all published before Total War: Warhammer III).
Oh... right, I guess what I wrote was a little ambiguously worded. However I was meaning I had never come across *this fluff* (which I presumed was created for the computer game) for Cathay, not that I had not come across Cathay.
@@KuK137I got into WHFB about 1998 and cathay and nippon were BARELY mentioned ever. The odd sentence across literally all the rule and army books was as good as it got. I also don’t remember either being mentioned in any novel until total war. So, your reply was unnecessary, and inaccurate 👍🏻
@@triangulan Yes! The Immortal Celestial God Dragon Emperor of Cathay and his family of immortal dragons (not primarchs totally) were invented exclusively for Total War.
Before this, "Dragon Emperor" was simply the title of a mortal ruler, of whom there were many but never named.
As I heard, it was the mortal ruler who was killed by Grimgor at the End Times.
So here is a 100% retcon based on a video game
@@Vasily_Kotickovitch Sorry, but not really. I did read about the 'Dragon Emperor'; and him been an inmortal ruler(rumored he could be a vampire... but also that he could transform into a dragon) LONG before Total War. I don't know if it was in a rulebook, in the 'Scripts of Nuln' or in some White Dwarf... I would have to spent days re-reading to find it... and I cannot accelerate the search on the internet cause the new lore based in Total War is everywhere...
...BUT I can assure without any doubt that some of this element where actually present in the Warhammer Fantasy Role Playing Game (basically D&D set in Warhammer) published in the 86... I don't know if Cathai was presented in that edition, or maybe in the 2005 2nd edittion or maybe even later; but LOTS of the elemnts that Total War re-used where allready present in thoose games. I found someone who pointed the elements Games Whorkshop had stablished about Cathai long before the TW videogames:
* It was THE biggest, THE most powerful, THE richest and THE most culturally advanced human nation on the planet. They were able to launch an attempted major invasion of the Southlands sending huge fleets to attack it from both the east and the west-- only for the force they sent east to end up in Lustria and for both fleets to be totally crushed by the Lizardmen. They have also sent major invasions all the way out west only for it to be also destroyed due to bad timing/luck. Nonetheless countless people from the Empire, Southern Realms and Araby brave the roads that lead to Cathay in a desperate attempt to gain some of the wealth that is there and bring it home-- even though traveling those roads carries a good 50% or so chance that you are going to be eaten by a monster.
* It was ruled by someone called the "Dragon Emperor" and there were rumors he was immortal and could turn into a dragon.
* And yet there was also this guy called the Monkey King who at some point managed to take over and was "The Dragon Emperor" for a time and had deals with Skaven.
* Clan Eshin learned their stealth/asssassination tactics from them. They might also have been the source of the Jezzails (it was either them or Araby).
* Cathay had living constructs made of terracotta, gun powder weapons and powerful magic.
* Ogres and Cathay were allies and much of Ogre society and technology was shaped by them, but when the Ogres started eating Cathayans-- the alliance broke up.
* Cathay has frequent wars with the Hobgoblins, but manages to keep them out. Oddly one Hobgoblin commander was convinced that he could switch to the Cathay side at any time and be accepted.... he did so and turned out to have gambled wrong.
* Cathay's astromancers almost certainly created the Great Maw when they performed a ritual to bring an asteroid down on the Ogre's head in an attempt to wipe them out.
* There were Tzeentch cults in Cathay, to the degree that one visitor from the west got the impression that they were somewhat tolerated and/or had corrupted some at even the highest levels.
* There are apparently monkeypeople living there, probably the same monkeypeople mentioned in Ind.
* It's almost certainly where one of the "missing" vampire bloodlines is.
Elves and Dwarfs: building continent spanning Empires, fighting Chaos, inventing technology, etc.
Meanwhile, humans: M O N K E
and then we dunk them both
I knew disjointed snippets of the old world lore, great to see it all put together with the year countdown in a coherent timeline.
Thank you Ian for another excellent video, saved for future reference 😀
'in search of his lost hat' might be the best line you've ever written.
playing warhammer fantasy roleplay was my introduction before ever delwing deeper into 40k, I never played any tabletop games but always role played and read the books.
F in chat for Malekith.
They sure did the elves dirty this time around.
Sad that the year 1999 was totally ignored in the new Lore as the date that the City of Mordheim was laid waste by the meteor.
Yes... I too was waiting for that juicy little nugget to be at least mentioned, but seeing as GW had chosen to ignore the Mordheim game and leave it in the hands of its fans, I'm ok with it. After all, to properly explain and do it justice he'd have to dedicate an entire vid to it alone. Stay strong Mordheimers!!! 💀❤
It might be there, I didn't mention every single point.
So stoked you’re doing an Old World series! Love your lore videos!
Even though I have never been able to play any of these war games, I really enjoyed this, since it adds some nice background to games like Total War: Warhammer 2, which I enjoy playing. Though I know from what you explained towards the end that is probably not so much based on what you covered here, since that is more set in the Warhammer Fantasy setting.
I mean, at the moment, they're PRETTY CLOSE to being identical. But I guess we'll see how that develops.
@@ArbitorIan That's what I mean, this gives some good background, since now I have a better idea who Sigmar is and some of the general history of the world. Mostly it's just characters like Karl Franz etc. that haven't shown up yet.
For some reason i like Fantasy more, but i love the primarchs and the space marines.
it's back in a unique way, it's Horus Heresy for fantasy players. I was surprised by VC and Skaven not being core factions though.
For some reason i like Fantasy more, but i love the primarchs and the space marines.
Fantastic job covering the history Ian! You must have really been on top of this, to release it so quickly. Super excited to (hopefully) see some beastmen models. Until then, I'll probably busy myself painting some Bretonians up. (never enjoyed playing them, but they were a delight to paint.) Thank you Arbitor Ian, as always!
Cracking effort Ian. Once again, thanks so much for simplifying the plethora of background data, especially as the hardcover rulebook is unavailable just 24 hours after being listed, as is the core box. What hope for those of us trying to be loyal customers ...
Time to dig out the old grudge book.
I think you recorded your voice on the wrong source. Thank you for the great video. I am so glad there are great WH channels like yours since I started warhammer with the TTS series and miss a lot of lore.
Yeah, the wireless mic recorded with a ton of interference - thankfully I have a BACKUP room mic, it just has a bit more echo from the room!
Would love some more lore videos on the Old World.
Funny that Naggaroth is called "the land of Chill" and is where all the angry bitter elves go :D
The countdown timer was a nice touch.
"lord croak died" is a real missed opportunity for "lord croak croaked"
How did I miss that?
Awesome content really appreciate how this channel can condense information
A nostalgic reminder of the old lore for the most part. I really enjoyed thid foray back to The Old World, I hope you continue your content on it in your own style!
Recently got back into Warhammer via 40k after a 20 year or so gap. I used to collect Vampire Counts as a kid (right around the time Valten was popping off and the end times appeared to be coming) and I loved my WFB army and the game itself. When I came back into the hobby I looked up what had been happening with WFB and was a little surprised to see it had been rebranded. Since then I've been trying to piece together how the two are linked and what the lore is in relation to WFB. This was a great recap of all the lore from this beloved setting; would definitely enjoy more Old World videos & lore from you!
YES. THANK YOU. I have loved the 40k universe for a couple years now but struggled, for whatever reason, to break into Fantasy/The Old World (despite most of my 40k friends getting into Warhammer bc of fantasy or having played fantasy)
Awesome job man. I'm just barely getting into warhammer and I'm loving the lore so far. I think only thing that makes it a little confusing is trying to differentiate from old world, AOS, and fantasy battle.
This video helps me understand where I stand for old world at least.
Thanks for a great video. Would love to see a similar one for the end times of the old world!
Everyone became stupid and died, the end.
Lord Kroak: The frog too angry to die
I'll miss KF on Deathclaw, but roll on the age of Magnus!
I can't wait for a Magnus model to be released. And a younger Thorgrim Grudgebearer.
Sylvania families shaven is the funniest thing I've seen in ages!
Great job. Best lore vid I've seen for a history of The Old World. Awesome job👍😁
8:06 "In Itza, the oldest of the Slann, Lord Kroak, finally died."
So, what you're saying, is that Lord Kroak... croaked?
The best part of the old world is Kremlo. He came from space.
Total warhammer did a lot to revive this setting. too bad they didn't decide to keep investing in it because it could be quite the bigger money maker now.
I was never an "old world" player (with the slight exception of Warhammer Quest - But my Quest Master fudged the back story A LOT) and this is the first time someone has held my interest in the story. I can't wait for more info from you!
In fairness to your quest master, WHQ backstory ended up a fudge in general, as the fantasy battle lore got revised. WHQ was set when Emperor Karl Franz was bed-ridden and slowly dying, with the elector counts jockeying for position to succeed him. Then the model of Karl Franz on griffon released and the Empire became a (mostly) united nation under a strong leader and WHQ's setting never happened. The retcon may have even happened during development of WHQ; I'm fairly sure quest released in '95 and the KF mini was definitely out by October of that year.
Oh man! I cannot wait for more of these. This is exactly what I needed this morning.
10/10 - stoked for more of your old world content!
Thanks for the catch up, always enjoy your videos.
As a salty nerd: They can change and redact and tell what they like, the strength of the setting in general is that we can choose what we want it to be. Like a big puzzle that may or may not make sense. Eg, I don't like how they put Primaris into 40k, but I can still like them as the better minis, accept them as the status quo of a SM army, and honestly, they are the better "heroic" frame for what they want to tell. Or something xD
Anyway: Nice comprehension, tyvm :D
Can't wait for the High Elves. I miss Tyrion and Teclis.
Sound the horns and unfurl the banners, the Old World is back
You're doing great work Ian! I've been a 40k guy but have always looked time to time at WFB and AOS from time to time and this was helpful. While it's a HH topic, Have you ever thought of tackling the Primarchs who had problems with their Terran born sons? I thought that was interesting as The Lion, Corax, and Mortarion all seem to take issue with the son's not from their founding planets.
Great video and so good explained! Now I'm so exited to start a lot of new total war Warhammer campaigns.
One question, did malekith get renamed in malerion?
Yep, same as AoS. I assume it's a copyright thing
Is Malakith actually retconned to be called his AoS version now? I assumed he only took on the name Malerion when he morphed into his dragon Seraphon.
Excellent vid Ian!
I really enjoyed this video! Do you think you’ll expand from 40k to more AoS or Old world lore? Love your style a lot and would love to hear you talk about those settings
Great narration and summary! Got me in the mood for some Old World! 😊
Ooo didn’t expect you to cover anything WHFB/ Old World !
*vibrates* Ah WHFB... *dredges ancient Tzeentch warband from the forgotten depths of my mini storage* dis gon be good.
Can't wait to be able to listen. I will always be hyped for lore. And Fantasy stuff will be great But oof if gws announcement that half the game is obsolete before it's even out for many players is a real killer of excitement.
It wouldn’t surprise me if this was a commercial scope decision and if the old world proves popular, they expand the setting to include some of those factions in later editions
Thanks for a fantastic summation :D I feel thoroughly caught up :)
Woohoo! Ian does the Old World! Prayers answered! :) Great work.
Gods I missed this world.
Malekith becoming Malerion for copyright reasons and the very concept of a year 0 in a calendar are oddities I'd need time to adjust to, but kinda feels good to be back. 😅
Just call him the witch king of nagroth
@@djc1376It's Dread king now. GW changed even that title.
@@TheVergoner witch king sounds better
Year 0 it's also the birth of Tehenhauin and the new God Sotek
I now need to adjust to the knowledge that there's no year 0 in the gregorian calendar. Always just assumed it was there. And they try to tell me wargaming isn't educational...
18:30 wait, isn't that Leontus, Lord Commander Solar of the Astra Militarum in the middle of that pic? 😋 Great video, I thought it would be almost impossible to get a general overview of the setting given how many decades of fluff it has, but you've done a fantastic job here!
Thank you that clears the timeline up. It looks like they have chosen to do the 'first battle of Chaos' were Tyrion and Teclis defeat the Chaos and Dark Elf army that was ramaging through Ulthuran and Kislev. Then Teclis goes on to create the colleges of magic in the Empire.
With this starting point and the background story in mind, it would actually be logical if the various factions within the Empire were more clearly elaborated than in the previous editions and if there were also a separate army book for each part of the Empire?
Agree! A lot of us anticipated this might be the case when the era of the setting was announced a couple of years ago. Hasn’t transpired that way yet, but the ‘armies of infamy’ mechanic they have introduced, (basically alternative army lists) leaves a lot of potential for this sort of thing to be explored if this new edition gets the development it deserves (fingers crossed)!
>It's inhabitants made their way into AoS
Not really? It was more like select named characters, some of chaos and lizardmen, the rest burned
Always happy to hear more from Warhammer Fantasy! I've been missing this game and I think this is an interesting time in a great setting.
I hope the Old World finds a player base and GW doesn't just treat it like one of its specialist systems.
Well, that was like wandering through my childhood. Brilliant.
Awesome! Thanks
THat was really good Ian. I really like the old artwork
Great video, thanks Ian 😊
Oh Imperial year 1999 is when Mordheim took place. Best game ever.
This is fantastic. Thanks for this!
I'm definitely going to play Empire for the Old World. Big hats, big guns and big mustaches - just the way Sigmar intended!
Thank you for this great lore video!!
Made it 42 seconds without doing the weird side glance for emphasis thing. That's great.
Well done… witch hunter Ian!
What struck out to me was the name Malerion. That's not what his name is supposed to be at this time. Throughout all of Warhammer Fantasy Battles he was always Malekith. Malerion is his new name in Age of Sigmar when he becomes a god or something. Did they really call him Malerion in the timeline itself in this?
I had heard a theory that he was renamed because of Marvel comics having a character with the same name. If that is the reason for the name change, it would explain it being renamed here too.
Malekith is a Marvel character, so Disney property. If Disney strike GW, GW won't survive. Obviously they won't sacrifice themselves for a couple of disgruntled grognards.
Rumors also say that in Age of Sigmar 4E there will soon be a reworking of Skaven, new Chaos Dwarves and dark elves of Malerion.
@@Basil_Ghothickovitch GW would actually likely survive a lawsuit since they've been using the name for close to 30 years and Marvel never did anything. Would be annoying as hell to deal with it, take a long time and be quite costly too but they'd survive. Plus he's been Malekith in recent Warhammer media like Total War: Warhammer too and I haven't heard of them getting into any legal trouble with that so who knows. Certainly possible that they're being extra careful.
It's been changed to Malerion in this. I would assume less copyright hassle too.
@@bigfinn1652Malekith first appears in Marvel in 1984. While they did not do a lot with him, they used him as the antagonist for Thor - The Dark Age. A legal fight might be more costly and not get the desired result as just changing things for this new version.
so glad to see the Old world returning, looking forward in seeing wot GW actually does with it
Magrita of Marienburg being elected in 1979 had to be another dig at Margaret Thatcher
Just re reading Drachenfels, sure she is mentioned and not in a good way.
Some armies were consumed in the fires of outrage :D
Lol at the Sylvania joke.
Fantastic. Would love to hear the whole story up to the end of the world and why they ended it
Does someone know what is the name of the map of elven outposts at 9:30 or have a link to get it?
Love it, good job keep it up!
This has got me wanting to play Total War, excellent work!
awesome and very entertaining summary! good to see real warhammer lore return
Great to be back to the Old World.
A giant frog named Lord Kroak
In the year 4420
Yeah, warhammer is very serious
Wow, big changes to the Dark Elf origins!
In the last couple of videos I notice the audio changed (like an echo or somthing). Did you update your studio/equipment?
Massive thanks for this!
Oh how Warhammer Fantasy captured my imagination as a young pup
The “Who Knows?” @13:32 kinda makes it feel like Ian knows… 🤔
Love this channel.
Love it! Would love to see more!
Would love to hear more old world lore
God, I’m so excited to have a new edition WHFB.
Wait, Magritta of Marienburg in 1979?
Yes. That is exactly what you think it is.
Really she was Magritta of Grantham 😃