The Alstom Coradia - Britain's Most Unreliable Trains
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 28 พ.ค. 2024
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With one of the major prerequisites of the privatisation of British Rail during the mid-1990s being the provision of updated rolling stock, thus ensuring increased passenger numbers through reliability, comfort, safety and efficiency, the Alstom Coradia units would be the first post-privatisation models to see widespread adoption across the network, coming in the guise of both diesel and electric multiple units.
However, as a result of poor build quality at the Washwood Heath factory in Birmingham, each of the individual units, including the Class 175, Class 180, Class 334, Class 458 and Class 460, would demonstrate severe faults and problems either unique to their respective class or shared across the range, smearing their reputation early, and leading to years of remediation work as these nearly new trains faced premature withdrawal.
Chapters:
0:00 - Preamble
0:53 - The Need for a New Fleet
2:33 - The Class 175
4:24 - The Class 458
6:27 - The Class 460
7:35 - The Class 334
8:17 - The Class 180
9:07 - Class 175 Problems
9:58 - Class 334 Problems
11:23 - Class 458 Problems
13:13 - Class 460 Problems
13:43 - Class 180 Problems
14:49 - Class 458 Remediation
16:53 - Class 460 Remediation
18:12 - Class 334 Remediation
18:42 - Class 175 Remediation
20:16 - Class 180 Remediation
21:50 - The Root Cause and Ruin
23:10 - Conclusion
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References:
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I work on the ECML, and whenever a class 180 breaks down, we just go “it’s just doing it’s thing”
Remember what Paul Tyreman says
"You'll be going nowhere"
Shame, because the 180 remains the coolest looking MU on the network.
Think there the second least reliable trains going these days.
@@philipbray880 what's the least?
@mburland would say class 150's given their age and milage they've done over the years.
I found the 180s to be very comfortable, which was just as well as you could spend hours in one when they broke down.
*You’ll be going nowhere*
very much looking forward to the same experience with the Romanian Railways' new Alstom EMUs, which everyone (especially the mass media) seem to love cranking one out to solely because they're our first new purchase since 2004... but with Alstom winning every public procurement bid that we've launched since last year or so (not to mention throwing a hissy fit when they lost one in favour of PESA of Poland), we sure have a bright future coming up...
‘However’ {proceed to detail endless inevitable dumpster fire}.
Love your delivery. Great video.
In China,there have a really dumpster train called CR200J which have a higher ticket price without advanced speed or comfortable experience😂
What's very telling is that none of the operators who took on Coradias bought any more Alstom products afterwards.
Maybe they should have bought them straight from Alstom. Just Australia should have bought the Collins class subs directly from Sweden. Now look nat the mess we're in.
True but I still feel that it's up to the contractor, Alstom, to ensure that the quality is there regardless of where they are built/assembled and the same goes for Seimens who have a similar record when introducing German tech to other countries. Stuff-ups like being too wide for tunnels is unforgivable, no excuse from the operators nor the manufacturer is acceptable.@@thhseeking
@@anthonyxuereb792 this. its not like in the old days when there were more railway manufacturers in every country, nowdays they've been brought out by others (for instance Siemens' electric locos are made by the former Krauss-Maffei works in Munich, Stadler's multiple units are made in a myriad of locations such as Szolnok [HU], Siedlce [PL] or Fanipol [BY] and Hitachi Rail purchased the living disaster known as AnsaldoBreda nearly 10 years ago). they are practically owned by these said companies. it literally does not matter where they are made so long as there are rigurous inspections to see if the vehicles meet the standards of the company or not. cause vehicles could be made at someone's traditional "home factory" and still come out with defects, like we've seen recently in the case of the Boeing 737 MAX whose plugged emergency escape door blew out due to some loose bolts.
The 150s, 153s and 158s outlasted the 175s on the TFW franchise. Astonishing.
As uncomfortable and old the sprinters are they’re extremely reliable and I still enjoy riding them to this day
Good. I'd rather sit in the dirty rust bucket that is the average 150 than on a train that doesn't move at all. Also the 158 super sprinters low key have good seats right now.
The 158s are still the best as most reliable units they have@@knownothing5518
@@knownothing5518158s are pretty good. Though the emr ones always feel cramped to me. Maybe the high seat backs and slender looking interior.
Interesting parallels with the 1955 BR modernisation plan where, as part of the steam replacement programme, myriad diesel types were procured with resulting reliability, maintainability and operability problems. I wonder if we are doomed to continue not learning the lessons of history.
Metro Cammell used to be one of the best manufacturers for quality. There are London Underground trains built by Metro Cammell that are 50 years old and still running reliably. Also remember the Class 101 DMU, probably the most rattle-free of the 1950s DMUs.
@@cedriclynchI liked the rattle
What I like is that the BR Standard Locomotives, mixed results non-withstanding, were built with clear goals and efficiency (maintenance and parts-sharing) as much as possible... While BR said to the first generation of diesels: "DO WHATEVER YOU WANT!"
I guess it was because Diesel technology was a bit new to BR at the time so it was trial-and-error, but the execution of the whole thing... oof....
@@toby070True but down to Riddles the first BR CME who disagreed with dieselisation on economic, security and probably philosophical grounds so he created the Standard Class steam locos. I suspect the diesel debacle was mostly caused by lack of overall objectives and inept procurement. Many of the companies they asked to build the Type 1 diesels were good at steam but utterly inexperienced in diesel, eg North British.
The site "derbysulzers" mentioned that Vickers had welding issues with the Sulzer diesels, leading to cracking as the 12LDAs were uprated to eventually some 2,700 hp. Later, with the 12LVA25s, there were crankshaft issues which were later found to be from fitters incorrectly reassembling the bearings. Washwood Heath seemed to be carrying on that tradition.
I love the bbc2 night time education programme/VHS sound you have going on in your videos, it's pleasant to listen to. Too many make videos with very sensitive microphone settings, it's almost too clear or overly bassy.
One thing I never understood was how Metro Cammell’s factory turned from one of the most well-loved into one with dubious to no quality control. Both our metro and suburban stock in Hong Kong built by Washwood Heath lasted over 40 years.
Someome told me 175s used to have some cleaning and maintenance done in Cardiff Canton as well as at Chester. But when CAF took over their maintenance, Canton was stopped from maintaining them. A couple of months later they started having "thermal incidents".
Pretty much due to reduced maintenance, it’s not an unusual story for trains on the way out of service
Didn't know about Cardiff being involved, but a similar thought crossed my mind. The 175s were not barbecuing themselves until maintenance transferred to CAF.
Either the knowledge was lost, or the management as usual thought they knew better and changed the maintenance cycle or regime.
There must be loads of classes on the railways that have odd niggles and faults, and it's through time and experience that maintenance staff get to know the odd little habits of certain classes and how to keep them running. Like removing accumulated leaf and litter debris in the engine compartment.
Not so much the fault of the unit, more down to CAF's maintenance.
You're correct. Canton was warning TfW about what would happen, and they were right. The expertise at Chester was also lost during the handover to CAF and the new management stopped the cleaning.
Just came across your channel doing research for my model railway layout. I have to say what a brilliant, well presented and extremely informative channel it is. Needless to say, I've subbed. Excellent work, atb Graham 🙂👍
You've got a lot to discover in that case.
Yeah, this channel is great
The back catalogue is a fantastic tribute to British engineers and management 😂
I usually watch these wearing my monocle and Union Jack underpants whilst sipping a cup of tea and uttering words like "what ho" and "by jove" 😊
Welcome! This has long been a favourite of Aunt Barbara's.
The alignment of the shot at 23:23 with the commentary is a masterpiece.
And how it then reveals the pacer when he talks about the flaws lol
Another cracking video, but the pronunciation of “Milngavie” (my hometown) had me laughing! It’s actually pronounced “Mill-guy”, not “Miln-gay-vie”
Rather ironic, considering the earlier comment about "Annoying Annie".
Lovely little town. had the pleasure to work there a few times last decade. I hadn't been warned about the pronunciation in advance and got some very bemused looks when I needed to ask for directions...
A year ago I was chatting to a hiker at Queen Street station waiting for the train to Milngavie so he could start the West Highland Way. He moaned at me about Milngavie not being pronounced the way it was spelt. Then he said he was from El-tam in London. I said "Shouldn't that be El-tham?" Touché!!
My gran lived there in the late 1890s, so I have known how to pronounce it for ever - although I was born and bred in Sussex!
My funniest experience, was the day that I arrived at my local station just outside London to find that it had been unmanned. I pressed the button on the box on the wall to help with an unusual route and connection times. When the girl I was speaking to asked me to spell the names of some of the stations, I casually asked whether she was local. It was hard not to burst out laughing when she replied, "I am working in the southwest trains central call centre", Then added "We are in the Philippines". Talking to a metal box at a deserted station in the drizzling rain, it seemed surreal. I doubt that the poor girl, who sounded about 16, had ever even heard of Scotland.
I was so tempted the following day, to pop into the station and ask her for the quickest route to Moscow. LOL
The 460s were very well looked after at Stewarts Lane and worked ok because of it. Sadly, Alstom's after sales was appallingly bad and the GatEx team often had to work without any help from them. By comparison, Adtranz worked with LTS at East Ham to sort the faults on the 357s, which were initially appalling but went on to become very reliable.
When SWT went for it's big Mk1 fleet replacement programme, Alstom's reliability record effectively put them out of the running, whilst Siemens put a huge amount of emphasis into product support in order to win the business.
Interestingly, the reason that Eastleigh Works shut in 2006 was because it was owned by Alstom, having been purchased in anticipation of winning the SWT fleet order. When Siemens won it, they weren't likely to use their competitor's site so built a depot at Northam, the predecessor of Eastleigh depot before 1909.
In the event Siemens needed a bigger site, but because Alstom had leased Eastleigh Works to KRS, they could now make use of it. In 2024 Siemens still have a major presence at Eastleigh Works but Alstom are long gone
Your work continues to be a great listen-to. It baffles me how it seems like British railroading can't go five feet without something going wrong anymore.
I can remember using the 180s some times in 2003, and it eas like travelling on a loud bouncy castle compared to the HSTs.
I rode on the hst I guess London to Newcastle as a kid in the early 80s....happy memories
As someone who was in work in Wilmslow both days the 175s set on fire at the train station, I cannot understate just how weird that was to hear about.
Like on two separate days that week someone had left to get the train home, come back and gone ‘nope apparently a train’s on fire’
This brings back memories. It was a dark time for the UK's railways, what with other things such as a few serious rail disasters and general discontent from the public with the service the new franchises were providing. Alstom's new train offerings were definitely the most unreliable, though I do recall the Adtranz Electrostar Class 357 also getting some stick for issues and delayed entry to service. In comparison, Adtranz Turbostars seemed to enter service a lot more smoothly, even if they weren't without some issues. I remember the SWT order going with Siemens, and all the coverage of SWT having given up on unreliable British made trains and having to turn to the Germans to help. I also recall media coverage about how Siemens had to "ruin" their test track a little with worse condition track and an erratic third rail power supply to better replicate the crappy tracks the Desiros would have to go over. The Desiros were certainly a good choice for SWT. The funny thing is, having had a bad experience with British built Alstom trains, then a good experience with German built Siemens trains, the south western franchise went back to the British for the Class 701s, and what an absolute joke those have turned out to be to date.
I've only actually gone on a Class 334 out of the whole Coradia family. It was quite pleasant, though they had the heating on warming the legs at the same time as the air conditioning blowing cold from up top at the same time as all the windows being open and giving a draught!
Rare to see Cumbria in any stock rail footage... always a treat.
If you see what the British railway companies, all of them and to many of them, have buggered up in the past, then it really does not come as a surprise that the also have no idea how and what to purchase when they need trains. This just fits perfectly in the disfunctional idiocy that is the British railway.
Your cat in your profile picture would probably design a better train.
There was a time when The Class 458 Junipers were Confined or Banished to The Waterloo-Reading route via Staines and Ascot after SWT allegedly failed to persuade Porterbrook Leasing to take them back. That said the 458's now work beyond said route after their major overhauls were carried out.
IIRC didn't they always work that route?
@@PinkThorn242The original plan was to eventually replace all the CEP/VEP/BEP/CIGs on every route they ran on with 458s, and to complement the existing 442s. Reading-Waterloo so happened to be the first route to see the 458s in action. When problems came to light, SWT just simply took their business to Siemens, and it was the beginning of the death of Washwood Heath.
Well, the 458's are planned to start running on the waterloo - Portsmouth Harbour route and are currently working on the sets by converting them from the 458/5 to the 458/4. The main thing from this is the removal of the 5th car to return back to a 4 car set and allowing them to reach a higher speed
I think the Reading line unit diagrams are pretty much self-contained, anything diagrammed on that route won't go anywhere else that day apart from the depot at night so it was a wise move then to keep the 458s on the Readings where they could cause the least harm if they sat down. And there they stayed.
@AurumUsagi it's crazy to think if they were more reliable then they'd have alot more junipers running too and from Waterloo to portsmouth
Excellent work. Some nostalgia for me as you showed a picture of 458s at Reading with the old Metalbox building in the background. I worked in that building for 5 years for Energis in the early 2000s. My desk faced out onto Reading station. FYI the town of Milngavie is pronounced. Mull-guy. Yeah, I don't know how either.
Did you get any good photos of the station from your office?
@@mdhazeldine Not really, it was quite annoying as the windows had a funny blind system where you couldn't raise the blinds out of the way, plus it was at a time when there were no decent digital cameras.
2:30am but I can't help myself. I have to watch it now
I rode on a few class 458 and 180 trains in the mid 2000s. My impression of them was that they were comfortable, but EXTREMELY lightly built. The Siemens Desiros felt a lot more solid.
Yeah pretty much anything from Siemens is built like a brick shithouse.
The class 458s are actually pretty heavy. But yes they are indeed lighter than 450s. Desiros are over 170 tons vs a class 458 at sround 164 tons . The problem with that is they are much to heavy to supply a good amount of power for them to accelerate fast enough (im talking about 450s) . The power supply at SWT third rail lines weren't adequate for the time they were released onto the tracks. Subsequently 450s are slow as hell as SWT had to heavily order them with inbuilt software/ hardware limitations . It's a shame Really.
Class 458s I have no idea how quick they actually are at acceleration at 4 cars (but we will find out soo ) I will say though, Electrostars were much more reliable as units than 458s, faster than a desiro anyday. And yet Still are sometimes 10 tons lighter than a 450 (near 174 tons) class 377/4s are likely the relitively lightest 377 subset at 4 cars (161 tons) vs the heavier variants ( class 377/2 at 168 tons)both 4 cars
What fabulous footage! Even though the Coradias experianced an extremely inauspicious introduction, the TFW 175s, SWR 458s and the Scotrail 334s do seem to have settled down massively, with the SWT 458s receiving Golden Spanner awards in 2017 for one of the best reliability of modern day EMUs. One extreme to another!
Excellent & highly informative video Ruairidh! Thank you for using my 175 image too :)
I really hope the 175s find work elsewhere, despite there flaws they are really nice units to travel on
They'd work well replacing Sprinters, e.g. the Northern routes around Scarborough and Hull
Get them displacing Class 150 Sprinters on Northern until they sort out their own DMU Tender. They still have the original prototypes running regular service and are clearly well past their best.
@@suchcone none of the northern depots have the expertise in maintaining alstom units, their reliability would be woefull under northern
I particualrly love the fact they were sold on 'proven technology' when they were very much prototyping them at the great expense of the commuter. An absolute farce.
An utterly brilliant video docu. Thank you.
An excellent, comprehensive documentary, as always.
I love the 175s. They are one of the national symbols of Wales to me along with the dragon!
I miss the 175 units so much . The 197s not a patch in them
Never been into trains until your videos keep up the good work 😀
Another great video, thanks. Didn't know about the clearance issues at Conwy so will keep an eye out next time I go that way.
I have many memories of travelling on 175s from Bangor, passable at best but mostly awful when for example a 2-car unit would be diagrammed to meet one of the ferries at Holyhead. Even when 3-car units were on, they were cramped, no space for luggage, seats too close together adding to the general cramped feel.
The automated announcements were terrible, mangling the Welsh place names, rarely running to time so would announce the wrong stations. Things were so bad that the guard took over doing all the announcements.
Only plus side is they did look good, especially in the Arriva horns.
Luckily I was never on a unit that failed or burst into flames whilst in service, but I'm not sorry to see them go!
Great documentary again ❤
Pity, the bodyshell of the classes 175 and 180 bay size is the golden dimension of 1.90 metres, which optimises window/seat alignment.
It's a shame these units were kind of rubbish, I'd still really like a model of the 460, something about that face is just, endearingly derpy! Another great video as always!
I can't with the 460s 😂😂 their so ugly. It would have been better if they looked similar to the first set of electrostars or something . Because Jesus christ that's the ugliest train I've seen. But personalty opinion I guess
Another awesome video Ruairdh
Really informative. Thank you.
Morning Ruairdh, i've got me tea. 🙂
Get kettle on 😂
thats my saturday morning if i get up before 8, tea and a macveigh train video 😄
@@oldfatbastad6053 don’t blame you ❤️ his channel
On a Class 180 from York to London Kings Cross in the summer. Slow running the whole way through-at one point, a staff member was stuffing tissue into a hole in the wall to stop a water leak.
Slow moving gave me plenty of time to admire the outskirts of Stevenage at least...
I remember 13 years ago riding them every day from brighton to gatwick airport for work, I purchased an anytime return ticket whiich for some reason on the outbound portion being valid for 5 days therefore was able to use the same ticket evey day all week, at a total cost of £14per week, which didnt feel as bad as pay for a £60 weekly season ticket. The return portion was also valid for 31 days, so that was never an issue either.
Excellent video, when i go to the UK, i might go on a coradia or a juniper to see the ride quality.
Virgin Trains hired two Class 180's after the loss of Pendolino 390033 "City of Glasgow" but never used them as they decided to use Pretendolino WB64 instead
Great find. Yes, I remember the Gla Central Station Annie. So it was not just me then. :>))
Britain is not the only country to experience issues with Alstom rail equipment, here in Canada we have problems with their equipment too
Not only did I learn a lot about the Alstom Coradia trains, I now also know how to pronounce 'Llandudno', where I will be vacationing this summer. Thanks!
The Alstom-GEC merger was a disaster for British industry, Alstom ran-down and failed to invest in almost every former GEC facility and now most have closed. GEC Preston used to make high quality traction motors and electric gear - gradually starved of orders, now closed. Washwood Heath was admitedly in need of investment, which it should have got given the number of orders going through it in the 90's, but as the video shows, this didn't happen and the results are clear. Now closed of course. The ex Metropolitcan Vickers works in Manchester is a similar story. Thankfully some of the heavier electrical engineering side of things was saved by GE USA and continues in Stafford and Rugby. Let's just say I'm not optimistic about Alstom running the former Bombardier plant in Derby well...
Axing the railway network and privatisation are two of the worst things to ever happen to Britain.
The met cam legacy of hopelessness continued to the bitter end.
Northern didnt sell first class tickets for the 180s when they had them.
Made an odd journey from bolton to manchester in the first class carriages 😊
You really make my Saturdays when you release a video about trains. Thank you so much.
Another great video sir
Once again a very well presented and informative video. Always a great joy to watch your railways related content. 👍
Every railway has its version of fundamentally flawed rolling stock. But many got stuck with these duds. Fortunately there were never any deaths or injuries, just a lot of very angry and frustrated passengers and personnel. (No doubt some enthusiasts who rode them knew what they were in for.) At least they had many attractive paint schemes.
They certainly some of the more interesting looking trains. I will miss seeing them on the marches line
Alstom… Unreliable… in the same sentence??? I’m shook!
And I always thougut Alstom always made quality products.
The rail companies all bought/rented the cheapest sets for profits, but ended up paying more for reliability pushing up rail fares for their incompetence.
I remember the Spanish C.A.F. units Northern Rail bought and the staff maintaining them said C.A.F. stood for Cheap As F**K.
Loool, well at least CAF can take the criticism now and hopefully modify any future models (that would be the smart thing to do). They have already rectified alot of their units to have better reliability it would seem.
The class 195s and 331s have been modified with better lateral dampers for better shock absorption. They look like the strangest set of dampers I've seen ,but as long as they work then that's what matters I guess.
For future it's looking harsh for the production of new aventras because alstom/(derby) are having problems keeping the plant open. And even on time with their orders , And seimens apparently don't really have shop set up for new desiro cities at the moment. So it's looking like CAF and stadler are likely best candidates for any near future purchases for traction. Northern rail/lner/southeastern/ and southern are likely gonna order some units at some point in the next (now) to 10 years
Let's hope CAF improve their newer fleet for the new LNER fleet and any other potential TOCs etc.
Yes indeed CAF built the Midland Metro's Urbos 2 Trams and Urbos 3's although The Urbos 3's had long entered service or hadn't fully they were taken out of service for cracks in the chassis meaning the entire line between Wolverhampton and Birmingham you had to get a Train or two buses in the 79 from Wolverhampton to West Bromwich following the Tram to Moxley/Bilston Border then continuing through Darlaston where a lot of people got on To Wolverhampton me included as we didn't get the Tram or Train. Then they followed the Tram from Wednesbury to West Bromwich where you had to get the 74 which followed the Tram from West Bromwich to Birmingham the 74 is every 5 minutes 10 minutes to Dudley and West Bromwich combined so wouldn't have been to overcrowded but if the M5 J1 was screwed the 74 would be Screwed. The 79 was every 10 to 12 minutes so got absolutely rammed and ran in convoys at peak times due to them constantly stopping outside the Tram Stops. Then Engineering work took place then The Trams failed again for the same issue and they had actually found Cracks a few years Prior on the Urbos 2 before fixing the affected Trams. NX who ran the Midland Metro due to running the buses didn't order them it was TFWM or Centro at the time who ordered them and NX Ran them they never had these issues until TFWM took over the Metro of NX
Id love to see an documentary on the Optare Metrodecker
Thanks for that video. Well, Alstom locomotives and EMUs always had some teething issues unlike Siemens or Stadler.
or even some old BREL engines.
Siemens and Stadler have also had teething issues, if not catastrophic
@@andrewreynolds4949 well, according to Siemens Desiro Rus experience those EMUs had lesser problems with engines or inverters than Alstom production.
@@runoflife87 As I said, Siemens and Stadler trains have also had issues, if not catastrophic ones like the Coradias or the Avelia Liberty units for example. The Greater Anglia units from Stadler had issues when they were first introduced, and Amtrak's Charger locomotives have had quite a few issues as well, including suffocating from light snowfall
I always found the 175's comfortable to ride on
I have nothing of use to add here, I just thought I'd mention how the 460 reminds me of Emu off of Rod Hull and Emu off of the telly.
I just remembered that one of those Class 175's which was taken out of service due to fire damage sat in Chester Railway Station for years...I think that's the one caught fire in Prestatyn. And I was stuck on a 175 for nearly 2 hours where it limped to Llandudno Junction but other than that one time, the 175s haven't been too bad in my experience. Same with the 180s, rode a couple when Northern Rail had them running to Blackpool, was a little overkill though as I had a carriage to myself at one point. Nevertheless, those Coradia's are notorious for breaking down constantly.
Say what you like but the Class 175 have the best noise insulation of all the 3td gen DMUs. It was possible to sleep very well on them on the late night/early morning trips to and from Holyhead. I miss them on TFL services.
I love travelling on 180s, one of the comfiest trains on the network. Think their reliability issues comes from the fact they’re diesel hydraulic rather than electric, wonder why they went with that.
The 175s are very comfortable and give a great smooth ride.
And yet they are being replaced by newer ones that offers the complete opposite, Disgusting!
Absolutely spot in the 175 were wonderful in comparison to the new 197s
The 180 “ Adelante” or Coradia S as they were known as initially were being built for First North Western to operate Holyhead- London Euston Services however the SRA ( Strategic Rail Authority) refused First North Western permission so 14 5 car units were being built but had no home / use
So First Great Western took them on .
I worked them for FGW alongside the HST’s on the onboard catering section, The biggest annoyance for me & the relevant affected customers and not a snob was first class Coach D was between 2 Std class coaches C&E , First class would of been better as coach E so less walk through and delays to the first class at seat service .
Personally i don’t think they were that bad for reliability considering the work duties/ time working they were doing .
Great video!
I remember one time a few years ago when a class 334 went past with a big wheel flat, it sounded like a metal getting pounded by a jackhammer and as loud as one too, and that wasn’t even at full speed too, would hate to think how it sounded at full speed
175s ended up being reliable and are really nice units to ride on I’m very saddened they’ve now left TfW had lots of good memories riding on them and I’ve always had a big soft spot for them, I’m not keen on the 197s
I couldn't agree more.
The 460s were definitely the most futuristic looking of the Coradia family. Unfortunately I never had the chance to travel on one. I have had many, many trips on the 334s on the Ayrshire coast and on the north Clyde line, to where they were cascaded after the introduction of the Siemens Class 380s on the Ayrshire routes.
I do think the 460 front ends were gastly.
@@bb-3653 I find your lack of faith disturbing.
@SteamboatWilley hahaha I get the refrence. 😬🤣🤣🤣even darth vader looks better than this thing.
IMHO it is a bit unfair to blame the Met-Camm plant for the issues. The issues the 180 and the similar Coradia Juniper classes was due to cost cutting instigated from Alstom's HQ in France. The Met-Camm plant was able to produce the 1995/56 tube stock, Class 390 and the X3 for Sweden without the same issues.
Any chance of some Irish stock someday? I have loved your content for many years now ! ❤
Considering that this is the same factory that gave us the 1983 Tube Stock as well...
The 180 "youll be going nowhere "
Im surprised theyve lasted this long
This is good and you're efficient able to crack out a video every 7 days or do you have a lot of them prepared and you send about every 7 days.
Real shame these trains are so horrid in performance, I really like the appearance of the class 180, it's like a more streamlined Voyager without any of the baggage (reputational, not literal) that comes with Virgin Trains.
The addage "if it looks right then it probably is right" doesn't always ring true, but one look at these units should have told us they were absolute wank
Just to update on the 458s. SWR are converting them back to 4 car sets. The origial plan was to take up the failed 442 diagrams over the Guildford Direct route. But the latest rumour seems to be that they will be used on the Brockenhurst- Lymington line and local stopping trains (Bournemouth-Winchester), freeing up 450's for a possible new Portmouth-Weymouth service.
They are being re-geared as well I believe
@@ewsclass6679 yes from 75 up to 100 I believe.
@@ewsclass6679yep, research "class 458/4" on you tube and you will see footage of them with their lateral dampers back on the bogies. Meaning they can go back to higher speeds. Lower weight (40 tons taken off via the 5th carriage) means re gearing them to max speed will heavily reduce the likely hood of the motor overloading drastically.
Just a small error, milngavie is pronounced mill-guy, it's a common mistake. Other than that wonderful video as always 😊
I really enjoy your videos, but I find the sound quality really grating. What Microphone are you using?
Alstom try to make a reliable train challenge
Difficulty level: Impossible
I think it's only fitting that this was released after Amtrak announced a critical delay of the Avelia Liberty's introduction to passenger service.
CR400BF-5033:You are my best friend!We are good at malfunctioning and make passengers angry!
As much as they had their issues. If only they rectified some of them pre release. I like them as they have those beefy motor sounds, the 334s are a bit loud. But 458s have a sweet spot with regards to motor / whine volume.
The body shells resemble the networker designs.
I assume the metro cammel / uk GEC style trains were what created that nostalgia before they were discontinued. I assume the same company that produced the units were also the same that produce the 96 stock and 465/9s?
I recall reading that the cost of refreshing the 458's to meet the disability discrimination legislation was only cost effective when someone came up with the idea of putting magnifying glass over the front destination display which would otherwise have had smaller font than required under the legistlation.
it did seem a bit odd to me considering there were many passenger trains at the time which didn't even feature destination screens.
Sweden has had major problems with the Coradia trains as well
Yes, and the companys running them here in the south has made train travelling a game of Russian roulette, since on average 2 out of 3 trains here are either late or cancelled, due to constant trackworks everywhere and at any time, lack of staff, broken signals that never get fixed properly, and many other silly reasons.
Southern Sweden has probably the most unreliable train service in northern europe sadly
Nice shots of the Cumbria coastal route for breakfast.#ilikepacers
I really do miss the former Gatwick Express Class 460 Junipers. Are the Class 175 Coradia DMUs going to be scrapped or to be stored and to be unused.
Perhaps ScotRail should inherit the Class 175 or to cascade them to GWR or Northern.
The front face of class 460 looks similar to the Siemens Charger locomotive units of Brightline’s push-pull trains in Florida.
I think it's concerning that the current models of this family are also having problems, the dutch icng is constantly breaking down and is causing rolling stock shortages as ns has already sold a chunck of the loco hauled coaches they are replacing, I hope these issues are solved soon as they are are a true replacement to the old stock in passenger comfort
It seems the problem wasn't with where they were built but fundamental design flaws with the Coradia platform.
@@samuelsmith6281 it may be a mix of both, most models however seem very reliable, think of the lint or duplex, the stream seems to be the new problem child of this platform, I can't confirm if other countries also have problems with these trains but I know CFL had some covid delays with delivery of their double decker units
Can you do the history of the glasgow blue trains
When I moved to Glasgow in the early 80s I was thoroughly confused by their name since by then they'd all been painted orange!
A pretty frightful story when one thinks how valuable some comfortable reliable dmus would have been for many years to replace other ageing units. The Southern Region, who had designed emus from the 1930s onwards that were regularly and reliably (un)/coupled in a couple of minutes, must have been mightily unimpressed that 458s took 10 minutes+. The good news was that we got the Siemens Desiros instead, which are very reliable and (especially the 444s) comfortable. Interesting that Bournemouth sorted out the 458s and got them running to high reliability standards.
Would love to see a video on classes 302 310/312 and LTS line
At least it’s not bad as our chargers here in the USA as they breakdown a lot.The Sc-44 ones have been breaking down in the winter due to the “slightest snowflake” from my uncle like literally a single snowflake that breaks down the engine immediately! But seriously the Genesis series not be replaced yet as they can use it up as backup service but honestly I hope Siemens will fix these!
can i just say.. as unsafe as they are.. i miss a slamdoor.
The Alstom Coradia family also had a rough start in France.
The X72500 and X73500 diesel multiple units which runs on SNCF TER services had a lot of reliability issues, especially the X73500 that had a lot of problems regarding track circuits because of their weight. It caused numerous derailments and accidents at level crossings. The X72500 had door problems and some engine problems like X73500. But they were fixed on first years of services.
I don't know about the Coradia Duplex though (Classes Z23500, Z24500 and Z26500).
Truly this Alstom period isn't the greatest of all time...
Corradia Duplex has performed pathetically in Sweden (class X40) but the Corradia Lirex units have actually had great success with several regional train companies (class X60, 61 …).
Imagine things being so bad that you almost resort to ordering *gags * Voyagers!
You only need to look at these class 458 units to be worried. None of tge interior or exterior panels fit properly together! Noisy to ride in. A 'bodge' of an emu. The class 450 that swt moved to instead were so much better - panels fit, materials were suitable and ride was quiet
The Class 460's driving trailer design resembles a squid.
When the 180s where on their Norther rail runs. They had the nickname of the Wasps. As they used to buzz loudly and that would get to be very annoying
When I heard Voigt hydraulic drive I said to myself, "oh no, not again!"