Having the pulley at waist level provides greater early phase loading for the deltoid, something not possible with a dumbbell or if the pulley is positioned at the floor level. Even if the pulley originates at floor level, or if someone uses dumbbells for a lateral delt raise while standing, the direction of force is still directly opposite the working muscle's action, but with very little early phase loading, thus the reason for adjusting the pulley close to waist height. steve
Doug said something about doing the lateral lying down with a dumbell as the goal is to start with the weight being heavy and at the end it is lighter. Try it. You can't cheat lying down.
As always, Gefster, thanks for the constructive observation--and indeed he does! Doug's alternate exercises are (more or less in this order) the lying one-arm DB side raise, the cable side raise with pulley on floor, the incline one-arm DB side raise, and the standard DB side raise. I prefer the standard DB raise over the others because even though the resistance curve is the opposite of what Doug recommends as ideal, the standard DB side raise strikes me as the safest, the easiest, the most accessible, and still pretty effective. Compared to the lying one-arm side raise, the standard DB side raise has not as much horizontal resistance but also lacks that point of full verticality at which there's no resistance at all (so, compared with the lying side raise, it's essentially six of one & half a dozen of the other in that sense). Also (in my admittedly non-expert experience) when doing the lying side raise it's more difficult to keep the elbow bent than while doing the standard raise. Maybe I should do a video demoing all six of those lateral delt exercises...? Let me know what you think about that idea, please. Thanks again! 👍
@@MetalProfessor65 Great explanation! Yes I understand exactly what you mean. I think because I work out at home it works. I even do them lying on my bed! Sometimes I will do one kind of inclined against a door leaning inclined then the lying version then standing version. I tied bike tubing to railing and do face pulls and doug's pull ins as I work out at home. I like the variety. on standing side laterals You can even trying lowering it halfway down then stopping and back up like athleanx does. Very good! I try to keep my arms a bit more straight but I think the best thing is to feel it. I have a pretty narrow build so I work more shoulders than chest as too much chest makes one look narrower. You have the frame for bodybuilding for sure. I don't. I have more of a track guy or tennis guy frame. More mesomorphic and endomorphic types tend to get big no matter what they do. I do other sports so getting big is hard and probably not that healthy for me anyway.
@@thegefster1988 Wow, thanks for the "frame of a bodybuilder" comment! It sounds like you're bodybuilding for absolutely the best reason: to stay healthy and strong! 💪
Thanks, and he does recommend the lying one-arm side DB raise! However, the difficulty with that one is that as the arm approaches verticality, there's a period of steadily reducing resistance until, at full verticality, there's no resistance at all. So comparing that shortcoming with the point of no resistance at the bottom of the standing DB side raise, it's a case of six of one vs. half dozen of the other, if you know what I mean. And since I'm all about reducing the amount of time spent in the gym (because there's so much other great shit I need to do!), I opt for two limbs at a time when possible. Thanks for the observation! 👍
Nice points here. There’s a lot of variation possible on the lying side raise: A steeper incline will prevent you from completely deactivating the lever @ the top, loading the delt through its full range & giving you that early phase loading Doug recommended. Thanks for the content.
Saying Doug recommends side dumbbell raise is false . To get the same effect or even superior results with dumbbells you must get on a bench or floor and do it one arm at a time. This respects early phases loading.
i also do low pulley curls facing away the pulley in external rotation since i found i have a better alignment with my left bicep because i got tennis elbow and an old shoulder injury.
Great video!! I have been implementing Doug's principles for a long time now and have been greatly rewarded by the knowledge. I started weight training 43 years ago and became a trainer 36 years ago. The biggest problem I have is people actually listening and understanding what I am saying, lol. I work around a lot of "steriod" bodybuilders that compete and are half my age... If they are looking for a trainer they tend to listen and hire the big guys.. I tend to get the older men that don't want to be a bodybuilder, they just want a safe, efficient, effective way to train.
Thanks for commenting, and I apologize for not replying sooner. Yeah, newbies always gravitate towards the huge guys, and I can understand their reasoning. There's a guy named Brian at my gym (a super nice guy, BTW), who is about my height but absolutely massive. If I were entering the gym for the first time and saw both Brian and a guy my size, I'd surely ask Brian's advice instead of the other guy's. (In fact, I have tried several times to suggest Brian should go to the next classic physique competition with me and compete, because he would absolutely clean up in his category!). Thanks for watching, and thanks for commenting!
@@MetalProfessor65 I train at a gym owned by husband and wife bodybuilders. There are around 4-5 IFBB pro's here, one gal competed in the Ms. Olympia. It's a big "bro-science" gym, lol... I have a Masters in Exercise Physiology and a ACE cert, have won several "natural" bodybuilding comps in my 20's, but no one really cares, lol.. It's all about the drugs and the heavy ass weight!!
Have you actually read Doug’s book? He didn’t recommend standing side laterals as a dumbbell alternative for side delts because the resistance curve is all wrong. For a dumbbell alternative he recommended lying down lateral raises one arm at a time.
Thanks for commenting! Yes, I have actually read Doug's book, I also have had several conversations with him about the situation. The side laterals are an alternative, even though they are his least favorite. If you had looked at any of the previous comments on this video, you would have seen that this idea has been addressed, and you could have read my explanation, but maybe that was too much trouble for you. In any case, thanks for watching!
@Daniel Whyte That's a good question! Because I've used that alternative for so long that I simply forgot it wasn't Doug's second choice (until Gefster noted it in his comment). If I redo the lateral delt examples in another video, I'll be sure to mention that. Thanks!
Having the pulley at waist level provides greater early phase loading for the deltoid, something not possible with a dumbbell or if the pulley is positioned at the floor level. Even if the pulley originates at floor level, or if someone uses dumbbells for a lateral delt raise while standing, the direction of force is still directly opposite the working muscle's action, but with very little early phase loading, thus the reason for adjusting the pulley close to waist height.
steve
Awesome explanation!!!
Thanks, man!
Doug said something about doing the lateral lying down with a dumbell as the goal is to start with the weight being heavy and at the end it is lighter. Try it. You can't cheat lying down.
As always, Gefster, thanks for the constructive observation--and indeed he does! Doug's alternate exercises are (more or less in this order) the lying one-arm DB side raise, the cable side raise with pulley on floor, the incline one-arm DB side raise, and the standard DB side raise. I prefer the standard DB raise over the others because even though the resistance curve is the opposite of what Doug recommends as ideal, the standard DB side raise strikes me as the safest, the easiest, the most accessible, and still pretty effective. Compared to the lying one-arm side raise, the standard DB side raise has not as much horizontal resistance but also lacks that point of full verticality at which there's no resistance at all (so, compared with the lying side raise, it's essentially six of one & half a dozen of the other in that sense). Also (in my admittedly non-expert experience) when doing the lying side raise it's more difficult to keep the elbow bent than while doing the standard raise. Maybe I should do a video demoing all six of those lateral delt exercises...? Let me know what you think about that idea, please. Thanks again! 👍
@@MetalProfessor65 Great explanation! Yes I understand exactly what you mean. I think because I work out at home it works. I even do them lying on my bed! Sometimes I will do one kind of inclined against a door leaning inclined then the lying version then standing version. I tied bike tubing to railing and do face pulls and doug's pull ins as I work out at home. I like the variety. on standing side laterals You can even trying lowering it halfway down then stopping and back up like athleanx does. Very good! I try to keep my arms a bit more straight but I think the best thing is to feel it. I have a pretty narrow build so I work more shoulders than chest as too much chest makes one look narrower. You have the frame for bodybuilding for sure. I don't. I have more of a track guy or tennis guy frame. More mesomorphic and endomorphic types tend to get big no matter what they do. I do other sports so getting big is hard and probably not that healthy for me anyway.
@@thegefster1988 Wow, thanks for the "frame of a bodybuilder" comment! It sounds like you're bodybuilding for absolutely the best reason: to stay healthy and strong! 💪
Great videos. On the dumbbell lateral raise, doesn't Doug recommend lying on your side to improve the resistance curve vs standing?
Thanks, and he does recommend the lying one-arm side DB raise! However, the difficulty with that one is that as the arm approaches verticality, there's a period of steadily reducing resistance until, at full verticality, there's no resistance at all. So comparing that shortcoming with the point of no resistance at the bottom of the standing DB side raise, it's a case of six of one vs. half dozen of the other, if you know what I mean. And since I'm all about reducing the amount of time spent in the gym (because there's so much other great shit I need to do!), I opt for two limbs at a time when possible. Thanks for the observation! 👍
Nice points here. There’s a lot of variation possible on the lying side raise: A steeper incline will prevent you from completely deactivating the lever @ the top, loading the delt through its full range & giving you that early phase loading Doug recommended. Thanks for the content.
Saying Doug recommends side dumbbell raise is false .
To get the same effect or even superior results with dumbbells you must get on a bench or floor and do it one arm at a time. This respects early phases loading.
@@patkob2180 Thanks for the comment!
i also do low pulley curls facing away the pulley in external rotation since i found i have a better alignment with my left bicep because i got tennis elbow and an old shoulder injury.
Great video!! I have been implementing Doug's principles for a long time now and have been greatly rewarded by the knowledge. I started weight training 43 years ago and became a trainer 36 years ago. The biggest problem I have is people actually listening and understanding what I am saying, lol. I work around a lot of "steriod" bodybuilders that compete and are half my age... If they are looking for a trainer they tend to listen and hire the big guys.. I tend to get the older men that don't want to be a bodybuilder, they just want a safe, efficient, effective way to train.
Thanks for commenting, and I apologize for not replying sooner. Yeah, newbies always gravitate towards the huge guys, and I can understand their reasoning. There's a guy named Brian at my gym (a super nice guy, BTW), who is about my height but absolutely massive. If I were entering the gym for the first time and saw both Brian and a guy my size, I'd surely ask Brian's advice instead of the other guy's. (In fact, I have tried several times to suggest Brian should go to the next classic physique competition with me and compete, because he would absolutely clean up in his category!). Thanks for watching, and thanks for commenting!
@@MetalProfessor65 I train at a gym owned by husband and wife bodybuilders. There are around 4-5 IFBB pro's here, one gal competed in the Ms. Olympia. It's a big "bro-science" gym, lol... I have a Masters in Exercise Physiology and a ACE cert, have won several "natural" bodybuilding comps in my 20's, but no one really cares, lol.. It's all about the drugs and the heavy ass weight!!
Great tutorial 👌
Have you actually read Doug’s book? He didn’t recommend standing side laterals as a dumbbell alternative for side delts because the resistance curve is all wrong. For a dumbbell alternative he recommended lying down lateral raises one arm at a time.
Thanks for commenting! Yes, I have actually read Doug's book, I also have had several conversations with him about the situation. The side laterals are an alternative, even though they are his least favorite. If you had looked at any of the previous comments on this video, you would have seen that this idea has been addressed, and you could have read my explanation, but maybe that was too much trouble for you. In any case, thanks for watching!
So why not just say that the standing side lateral is YOUR dumbbell alternative, not Doug’s? Because yes you are right, it was Doug’s least favourite
@Daniel Whyte That's a good question! Because I've used that alternative for so long that I simply forgot it wasn't Doug's second choice (until Gefster noted it in his comment). If I redo the lateral delt examples in another video, I'll be sure to mention that. Thanks!
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