PHEV Packaging Perils | Jeep Grand Cherokee 4xe Hoist Review
ฝัง
- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 27 ก.ย. 2024
- Jordan and Kevin put the Cherokee 4xe up on the hoist to review the suspension and undercarriage of the vehicle.
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#Jeep #GrandCherokee #PHEV
It looks like this car will keep mechanics happy.
As with every Chrysler
THANKS MUNRO … and Jordan for providing the humor this morning😁💚💚💚
I wasn't ready for the beginning .
We don't think Jordan was either!
A good "varient" of the normal opening
They seem to be trying very hard to be kind regarding what a mess it is. Perhaps because it was built by one of their clients.
It’s a phev. It’s a mess by it’s definition
@@mgmacius A "mess", a fraud (NOT electric, ICE/battery assisting insignificantly from a practical standpoint), but just enough to be deceptive so that it can be sold as "EV". It worked on most who wanted to try an "EV". I figured it out in 2000 and got angry at the liar, the Prius maker. I still bought Camrys since 1994 and own a 2008. I have 2 Apteras on order since 2020. My mistake was not buying Model 3 in 2019, waiting for the for efficient Aptera. I could have enjoyed the EV experience for 5 years waiting for the ultimate one.
and most likely nearly unrepairable
Running headlong into bankruptcy
I agree. Hundreds of bolts under the vehicle. Who wants to do that when it's new let alone when it's rusted and half of them break? You absolutely have to own a hoist to do this type of work and really good service information. What regular person has either? MAYBE .0001%. Get ready to wait months once anything needs service.
They're just not ranty like Sandy is.
They were so distraught with the design they turned the review into a redesign session on what It could be as a BEV! Funny. They should just design from scratch. Even this redesign carries to much baggage of old designs. Enjoyable video! You guys are really getting the knack of critical feedback that Sandy alone used to do. Very fun to watch.
For a company that keeps pushing out new 15 year old platformed cars, tells one everything they need to know. Chrysler is broke.
@@Fearls1I’m shocked that Chrysler is still around!
So summing up it's a lot of work for bugger all benefit.
@@peterlittlejohn8933 The Monroe team worked hard to say something nice. Lots of deep breaths. Imagine if they just said what they wanted without Jeep as a customer...
I wonder how many purchasers are really going to off-road this vehicle? It would be taking your living room full of plush furniture out for a some Baja’ing. My guess is most of the off-roading will be into a ditch when owners out-drive the ability of the brakes to stop in icy conditions.
Seconding the idea of drawing comparisons to another PHEV to see how other manufacturers tackle the challenge. I think looking at an OEM with a longer track record of Hybrid integration would be good. (Maybe cut to some RAV4 Prime shots next time?)
Anyway, this was another great informative look at the challenges of engineering-meets-manufacturing, and why I value this channel.
I just got a Toyota hybrid over the Toyota PHEV. One can make a case that the much simplex non-HEV hybrid system kinda works in that the two motors/generator/split power device functions both as a "transmission" with no alternator required. In other words, a traditional ice/trans is is about the same size as the Toyota Hybrid System. Yes, you will still need a small inverter/battery, but they assist and are never needed as the primary drive only components. But as soon as you go Toyota PHEV, you need in the Toyota PHEV, a approx. 15x bigger battery, a buuilt-in charger, a battery cooling/heating system. And for cabin heat, you need a heat pump. And by definition, on the electrical side ,the electrical side of the drive train is the primary reason and it must be sized to be able capable of driving the vehicle for a reasonable distance to justify the addition PHEV complexity. I think one should just go full BEV, as the Murno's guys strongly seem to lean in this UT. PHEV is a mess. And I wonder if this is the reason, at least at Toyota, you can never find one. They know it too. LOL
Love the content and out takes.
Thanks Hugh
Botched intro was funny 😁
Would love to see you all take a look at a corvette E Ray.
oh wow 350000 subscribers WOW congratulations!!!!
Thanks! 😃
So, as a Tesla Model 3 owner (and fan), how does it make sense to locate the batteries right next to the hot exhaust pipe ? It looks like another "old" ICE manufacturer using what they already have and trying to squeeze in hybrid components. ( PS I was raised in the Ford business and was a devotee ). What I have told people who asked me about my Tesla, I told them that the Model 3 was everything a car should be. I think this is due to the Tesla designers, engineers, etc. started, pretty much from scratch. Ford, GM . Stellantis is apparently putting lipstick on a pig.
I love my Model 3LR/FSD. Wish I had had it 50 years ago.
Seems like Jeep would benefit massively from a full EV using structural battery. Lots of emphasis on underbody reinforcement and cross-vehicle rigidity adding weight and complexity…
Was that bolt missing from the factory build, or was that due to teardown and reassembly at Munro?
The mount for the tube had no witnesses marks from any bolt being screwed in. I wonder what other hardware is missing...
@@JB-mk4ry Good call, I should have spotted that.
10:10 ?
As a two-time Jeep owner, with Jeep owner friends, I’m confident that every Jeep comes with missing fasteners. But don’t worry, they include a few extra loose ones that fall onto the floor at random times in the first few thousand miles. 😂
@@-Jethro- Thanks for the insight from a Jeep owner.
Heheheh, when suddenly engineers must also be TH-cam celebrities. :)
I'd rather own an old used jeep fossil burner for that whole 2 days a year i need it and then have a full ev for 98% of my driving.
As perspective 53miles was EV with our chevy volt was ok for most days. 25 is definitely not good would not consider it
Something that a lot of people don’t consider when they buy a PHEV is that they’re buying a vehicle with 2 completely different powertrains in 1 car with _additional_ provisions to connect the 2 different powertrains to each other and make them play together. They are unbelievably complicated. Trying to make an EV drivetrain play well with with an ICE drivetrain helps the ICE drivetrain, but generally makes the EV drivetrain much worse, especially in regards to efficiency and complexity. Even comparing Toyota’s HEV and PHEV drivetrains, which are about as refined and simplified as they can be, to an average EV drivetrain shows how complex and convoluted the HEV and PHEV drivetrains are.
This setup is particularly bad because, while this is a new platform, it was clearly not intended to ever be a PHEV. This is an ICE vehicle that has the PHEV drivetrain shoehorned into it after the fact. Building a ground up PHEV is hard enough, making an ICE vehicle into a PHEV will always result in a clumsy, compromised and hard to service product.
Fabulous engineering analyses of the Jeep Grand Cherokee!
I think the take away is mechanical nightmare. The frt suspension design was used on vehicles like the magnum that baffled the best mechanics trying to figure out where the rattle was coming from until it was well known. We used to call it a strut rod. Now it's attached by a little triangle piece or aluminum on the front? Another thing that was bad was the multi-link rear suspension and they are still using this? Just a nightmare to work on and so many steps needed when servicing this setup. Now equipped with air suspension. It looks like the rotating axle shaft was rubbing the protective boot. How long will that last? Ugh... Not to mention under 30 miles of range from the battery. Now it's just a dead weight EV system for the most part. Just do gas or electric. This is way to complicated. Soon no one in their right mind will want to deal with non-sense and you'll be stuck with your vehicle at the dealer forever waiting for service. The new generation of mechanics are going to figure this out pretty quick and will never want anything to do with this stuff. Just looking at this tells me I'd rather flip burgers and go home happy instead of dreading what is waiting for me tomorrow sitting on a hoist. Not fun anymore.
Props to Jordan regularly for diction/descriptive words. "the article", "gloved over". lol writing this at 4 mins in but waiting for "enables"
Can we integrate a wood gasifier for the hillbilly edition?
“There’s a lot of serviceability built into this” 🤣 that’s how they make their money!
Layering of components is a support nightmare… I’ve tried it to package electronics, and realised why it is a bad idea…
This could best be described as a Frankencar. And with Jeep’s legendary propensity for early component failure this thing will have horrible total cost of ownership for any owner who keeps it past the end of the factory warranty period.
Now please do t throw stones my way. I own a Jeep Grand Cherokee.
I think it would be really interesting to see this with another PHEV of similar size by another manufacturer to see the differences in how they approach these design challenges. Like a Volvo XC60 PHEV or BMW X5 PHEV.
You can't fix "stupid", e.g., a fraud conceived to keep selling ICE vehicles as long as possible.
Jordan What I heard was it was a patched together mess doing nothing right but getting the job done for the short term. I did not hear the word "symphony" Are these engineers held back or just not able to design it better because of lack of knowledge?
Humm... A 17KWh batter and a 25mil all electric range works out to 1.47 miles/KWh. That seems pretty low!
Very heavy vehicle ...
Is the rear drive shaft touching the air suspension bellow?
PHEV. Worst of both worlds. Terrible electric range plus all of the baggage of an ICE vehicle.
Thanks for this review.
Great video!
Thanks!
So many bolts. So many different sized bolts!
@Richard Nedbalek I notice that as well.
@Richard Nedbalek GM has got that burning Bolt😮
Surprised by the forgings in the wheel-ends, yet likely there to compensate for high loads while keeping the weight down. They do charge at least $20K more for this than the ICE version.
Hybrids, excessively complex, not a mass market proposition. But if your concerned about running out of charge in an EV they are possibly an attractive proposition.
Stellantis needs to get their marketing people to up the anxiety levels amongst their prospective customers otherwise it won't even serve as a stop gap in the transition to EV's.
Post production guys cannot be trusted. 😂
😉
Awesome thank you
No problem!
Thank you!
You're Welcome!
The welds look horrid
Rivian has better welds........ 😂
Tesla Cybertruck has 16" ride height, 14" travel, BEST in class Approach, Departure, and break over angle. It can even raise the front end , then lower the rear for EZ loading of the bed.
and in no way comparable or cross shoppable with this. Good one mark!
Or, at least, that's what's promised. We'll see what is finally delivered.
Or so it's rumored.
Porsche Macan coming out With full EV next rear. Electric awd maybe lighter than analog 4 wheel drive? Why not a mixture with this PHEV. Get rid of the mechanical clutches etc with the 4 wheel drive stuff
What a sad vehicle. Phevs first graced the market back in 2007. It was a great stepping stone then, but it's garbage now. This is a service nightmare. The presenters are being nice, you can tell. They are not impressed, just read their body language and overcarfefully word choices...it says everything.
Love this video btw. 👍
Why didn't jeep just simplify and have the electric motor replace the mechanical stuff for the rear wheel drive?
You guys care to cover this recent news from Ford? I don’t recall you guys realizing either that their wiring harness is 1.6 kilometers longer than it needs to be for Electric F-150 and Mach-E. But this is what you do right??
“Ford CEO Jim Farley was rather blunt about the problems that Ford experienced as it rolled out its hot EV models, the Mustang Mach-E and the F-150 Lightning pickup. While both vehicles have a long list of waiting customers, Farley admitted that Ford encountered numerous problems with their production.
“We didn’t know that our wiring harness for Mach-E was 1.6 kilometers longer than it needed to be. We didn’t know it’s 70 pounds heavier and that that’s [cost an extra] $300 a battery,” he said on a call with investors Thursday. “We didn’t know that we underinvested in braking technology to save on the battery size.”
Farley said these and other cost problems meant that Ford “left about $2 billion of profit on the table.”
If you think no new petrol vehicles starting 2030-35, that is just around the corner. Battery production must go into overdrive
23mpg, hahahaha
I'm guessing that Jordan and not Kevin chose the height of the lift. 🙂
Enjoy replacing the exhaust anytime you need to do work on the drive train. 🙄
his watch is lile 1/4 the size of his head
They should just make it all electric and then have a small generator engine for heat and to charge the battery.
they can reuse this for an EV as range extended EV with a 50kwh battery and a small turbocharged engine.
MUNRO - the Cherokee is too SLOW, it's too HEAVY, it's really inefficient.
the Cherokee has too many Fastener, too many Brackets holding up more brackets.
As a Tacoma sales rep, you're really doing a poor job
Now we know why they stumbled at the intro- "Are you ready?" i.e. how to describe this mess without losing our consulting contract or get sued? LOL
Before covid, people would say "Version." After Covid, people say "Variant" instead.
RIP legacy auto
The boys want to say that cramming in the EV component is "A dog's breakfast...", but they can't! :)
Imagine a phone maker desperately marketing push button / touch screen hybrids in the believe that customers can't live without the old familiar while also demanding the new modern technology. Who would do that and expect to stay relevant and in business...
I want a my next cell phone with dial up numbers and with the speaker/microphone on a handle, all connected with a cord to a wall plug. Oh and please include a crank handle so it can be "self charging". 🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣
Blackberry has entered the chat
A design, production, and servicing nightmare ...and if you're a second or third owner, an ownership nightmare too.
Build a vehicle with reliability or serviceability those are trade offs
Y’all need to see the lift height for Kevin, not for Jordan.
Legacy car manufacturers being allowed a couple more years to catch up with full battery EV’s with PHEV tax incentives
Just say it, we all know hybrids are the worst of both worlds, not the best, as the delusion goes.
It's amazing to see the money the OEM's waste on PHEV vehicles. All the negatives of gas and electric and no positives fully utilized. A complete waste of effort in my opinion. Also can the OEM's stop with the blue coloring for EV's and PHEV's? You can tell it's a subpar vehicle just look for the blue paint.
Porsche Macan EV is coming
So much under the vehicle in harms way especially external elements crossing rivers, etc. expensive repairs after warranty period
I hate the idea that going green is now blue, which makes me really hate those stupid blue recovery hooks. Stop it.
Instead of using the word tough as a description, I think hot garbage would be a better description
Don't know why Ford has thrown so short its opportunity on its Maverick hybrid. Its production speed is dead slow underestimating real world demand for a 40mpg truck, and they negated a PHEV option.
It makes no sense why Ford didn't make one back in the 2000s with the Escape.
BEV is simple in comparison.
More evidence that not every mfg’er is gonna survive.
The bottom line here is PHEVs are trash now 2 systems to possibly fail and they will . just ask a Prius owner
A modern Jeep going off road? What planet are you on?
With the suspension being mostly aluminum, I’ve heard mechanics worry about galvanic corrosion and the welding of dissimilar metals especially the bearings down the life cycle, making it a huge issue for service
If the aluminum doesn't make electrical contact with steel, shouldn't be a problem.
The plug in is a translon between the new EV cars with average battery performance and fairly low range to the coming future batteries for new gen EV which will run approx 600-800 miles per charge. Then, I would say, EV will be a good buy. Now, the current EV batt cost around 20K per car. Its wayyyyy too expensive. The negative of Plug ins is the complexity of the mechanics. I just got 23 Overland 4XE and I love it. BUT, I would never buy it. I did a lease for only 24 months to feel this type of tech and see if I like it. I don't want to deal with the repairs/ batt or issues that might come up. I will drop my car off and get a loaner. Let Jeep deal with it.
Front looks ok, the center and rear looks cheap... Ok, rear suspension arms are aluminum. Couple of bolts already missing, so what about the assembly quality. Exhaust is very cheap-looking. Well, maybe they thought: "We do this for a couple of years and then look at it seriously again, but now, we don't have the resources and actually don't bother."
Nah this is terrible all plug-ins should be 50 miles of ev range this is garbage. Client or not still not buying this junk
This thing looks like a mechanics nightmare to work on.
Having owned a PHEV, my advice is: DON'T. The complexity and compromises you have to accept aren't worth it.
90% of current new sales are gasoline powered. Who knows how long that will last, though. Hybrids appeal to a lot of people who have never seen a BEV, have no way to charge, or figure it's a Liberal plot to take away their mobility.
yea, the Cherokee feels REAL clunking driving down the street.
Stellantis just has no clue...... 😂
Hybrids are a waste of engineering effort.
That’s a huge mess of engineering.
Given Chrysler's history with turbines, I'd love to see a turbine/generator, battery, motor PHEV. Minimal moving parts for simplicity, size, and weight savings over an ICE engine, while also lighter than a BEV.
Chrysler's history with turbines was they're expensive, thirsty, and pollute.
@@jamesvandamme7786 Not at all. The problem with the 1960s Chrysler turbine car is that the turbine was connected to a transmission to the wheels.
Turbines burn very clean and efficient, but only in a small window of rpm. That's perfect for a hybrid where they can directly charge a say 25-50 kwh battery as needed, and then shut off. Fuel can be natural gas, gasoline, diesel, or basically anything that you can run through a fuel injector.
Energy dense hydrocarbon fuel with motor drive, the best of both worlds.
@@hallkbrdz Mazda came up with the idea of their MX-30 range-extender EV, which uses their pet project, a Wankel engine. Same problem, runs best at a certain RPM so it sucks in a regular car with a transmission.
A turbine car would sound cool. And you could run it on french fry oil for the ambience.
I remember the Chrysler turbine had a big recuperator for efficiency, and variable vanes in the turbine to flatten out the torque curve. Today's materials would have made a difference.
PHEVs are a joke. THEY ARE NOT EVs. The EV in the name is merely clever marketing semantics. Any vehicle that has ANY IC engine connected to the drivetrain in any way is NOT an EV.
25 miles of electric range??!! Ha!! For many people that isn't enough quite often to be worth bothering to plug in. I can't understand why legacy auto continues to hold on to and produce this architecture.
If legacy auto were smart they'd drop PHEVs and shift to bespoke range-extended BEVs. That would allow engine factories to continue to exist (though smaller) and the vehicles would be much much simpler. Buyers would get the best of both worlds. The range extender only needs to cost less than the batteries it replaces, 60 kWh * $100 = $6,000. I think they could do that easily enough. The resulting vehicle could have 90 miles of electric range, plenty for 90% of trips, and a total range of over 400 miles. Sadly, legacy auto just doesn't get it. They're either too stubborn or too stupid.
How on earth did they wring such a miserably small electric range out of a 17 kWh battery?
I was thinking the same thing. It is a pretty darn massive vehicle, but still…
@@wtmayhew It's got like half as much electric range per kWh per weight compared to Ford's shitty PHEVs lol. How does a car company screw this up so bad?
@@sealpiercing8476 Agreed that 25 miles on full electric drive is terrible. I assume the huge mass combined with apparently using an electric motor to drive a conventional power train is to blame. Stellantis should have used an electric motor for the rear drive. That would have eliminated transfer case / torque splitter and prop shaft plus reduced the weight of the rear differential by incorporating the gearing into the motor case.
@@wtmayhew Would that stuff account for a factor of 2 in efficiency? A 4000 lb car should be getting minimum 4 miles rated range per kWh--even Ford can do that. This is a 5400 lb car so it should be getting 3.0 or better (since air resistance doesn't scale as fast as weight) but this thing does 1.5.
@@sealpiercing8476 By “but still…” I meant but still Jeep should do a hell of a lot better. If I had to make a theory about why it is so pathetic on pure electric range is that they’re using the parallel hybrid electric motor to just power the conventional drive train in lieu of the engine. It would have made more sense to modernize with a transverse front drive motor/generator and a purely electric rear traction motor. They’d get rid of the mass and power loss of the torque splitter, prop shaft and rear differential.
All that probably doesn’t matter to the prospective buyer of this vehicle anyway. The buyer of this thing just wants it to be a living room on wheels, say Jeep on the outside, look kind of boxy and have some recovery hooks in an ugly contrasting color. The owner can feel a little hip because it is a hybrid, performance statistics need not apply.
Lots of us are waiting for a Jeep EV. No interest in a hybrid.
Imagine having to change the pinion seal. Or the O2 sensor. I don't even want to know where the NoX sensor is placed.
What scares me it's a Jeep and their legendary unreliability.
“Missing a bolt” Weight savings??? :-) Makes one question hidden flaws.
"It's tough." Translation: 'What a cluster fu*k'.
Or so it sounds to me.
Ill conceived. Woulda been better with a electric rear drive and just using the gas motor for a generator
Jeep Volt 😁
One of my cars is a 2006 Highlander hybrid (not PHEV) and Toyota went with an electric rear drive and it actually does pretty nicely. The biggest problem is that it is still pretty thirsty. The year before eked out about 18 MPG and the hybrid notches it up to only 25 MPG. (honestly, not bad, ~30% efficiency improvement) Doing the electric rear traction motor instead of prop shaft and viscous torque splitter saved weight and improved response while leaving more space under the floor pan without compromising interior space.
MUNRO - it's pretty easy, to go 100% electric BEV, gm & Ford made electric trucks in the 1990's w/ lead acid battery, the Electric Ford ranger & gm Chevy S-10 EV.
Safety standards, electric power train standards, battery technology and the electronics that drive them all are more advanced, more expensive and very different from what was used in the 90s. You can't compare them apples to apples and say it's easy. Easier than an ICE vehicle? Yes, but also expensive to shift over everything all at once if you're already neck deep in ICE production.
I am not an engineer. But the complexity of all the Hybrids are scary and built to make any mechanic real happy, and the owners miserable. But for what? For theoretically save 20% more gas mileage ? Don't believe their theory for it will reveal itself an impossible dream. Mainly due to the fact that normally every 20 or 30 miles you have to stop to recharge the depleted battery, and believe me I never had nor the time or the will to do so. Because if you drive on ICE alone you can say good bye about your dreamed gas mileage, and face instead a far higher gas mileage, than a strict ICE car, simply because together with a very limited range battery normally you get an ICE too small to do the job alone, and get horrible gas mileage. This has been my experience with the unnecessary contraption. Far wiser is the decision to buy a a strait ICE car, bur far wiser still is to buy a good EV that will automatically cut down your maintenance costs and the fuel costs. to the tune of $3.000 to $5.000 a year.
MUNRO - the Cherokee is built on a OLD outdated platform, this Hybrid 4xe is not even Electric, it's a Combustion vehicle, that still has Tailpipe emissions and emits PM 2.5 & PM 1.3 particles that can KILL.
God man, get of the soapbox.
This over the top narrative is why people belive all EV burst in flames. Burning passengers and homes.
@@thomas735 - too many Fastener, too many Brackets holding up more brackets.
DELETE.
@@markplott4820 modern teslas won’t be insured if they use gigscastings. Too expensive to repair and fix.
@@thomas735 - FIRST, you don't EVER need to repair & fix Tesla Gigacasting, the crash rails can be unbolted or cut with torch.
NEW crash cans can wielded or bolted on .
Tesla has already worked out Gigacasting repair.
they can simply wield and cracks in Gigacasting.
MOST insurance will write off Cybertruck
I’m getting so used to the clean look of EVs underneath that it is almost a shock to see the morass of an ICE car. Designed for service access as this PHEV will need lots of it.
Good info in this vid, let’s hope Stellantis engages Munro to design this model as a ground up BEV design.
It's too late for the legacy makers. Their best people will quit and go to Tesla.
@@1voluntaryist If I were them I would go now and not wait for the company they are working at to collapse or lay them off first. The time to get a job is when you already have one. 👍
don't understand why manufacturers didn't do "range extender" models instead ... Stellantis could have just put in a 3-cyl range extender/generator in with an e-axle in the back to eliminate all the drive-line clutter while using a slightly larger battery pack, but I guess Jeep buyers still want a traditional 4x4 setup for all the rock crawling they're going to do in their shiny new SUV.
I know this is off topic. I recall that Munro is involved at some level with Aptera and has a way of communicating with them. I was reading through the the new IRS restrictions on tax credits for EVs and realize that Aptera vehicles won't qualify for any Federal tax credits. This could be "fixed" by replacing the solo rear wheel with dual wheels, combined like they are at the rear of heavy duty pickups and semi-tractors. I don't like the idea of redundant parts in general but this one change might be able to help the company boost sales to get off the ground and reach break-even faster. It might also allay the fears of folks who worry about what hapens if the rear tire blows?" (You can take down this post.)
so similar in idea to the BMW Isetta? :D
A few years, PHEVs will be a thing of the past. With a little better battery chemistry, this will all go BEV.
PLEASE ANSWER: the battery give about 25 miles. How much mile could that vehicle goes without the battery weight? what is the sense, if anyone wants more range wouldn't a larger gas tank weigh less give more distance than the battery?
the point of the battery is to use less gas, not to extend the range
Take a drink every time Kevin says "itself"
Remember to introduce the other person.