The Linux Phone
ฝัง
- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 14 ส.ค. 2022
- It's been a couple years since the first Linux phone came out and I bought a Pinephone Pro in Jan of this year to follow back up on it. It isn't good news... .
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As Valve has shown with the Steam Deck - money, corporate backing, and shipping Linux preinstalled, are the key ingredients Linux is missing on all GUI-based fronts.
corporate backing which is not half-assed to be exact
I feel like without corporate backing, the approach by the Gnome Foundation is the best way so far. Instead of creating and forcing a platform for a specific device, they chose to upgrade the existing toolkit to support a platform in the future. Now your desktop apps work on mobile with no porting needed.
@Reclaimer Leviathan Unlike Android though, SteamOS allows you to open a desktop environment to use Linux applications with it iirc
@@crushfruits2660 with some fiddling you can do that with Android. But it doesn't have a tty driver and it doesn't have anything GNU-related so you need to install those yourself.
@@kuhluhOG i agree. I think this is the most important thing. With the second being to use FOSS where it makes sense.
Steam worked because of the donation to code weavers to improve their Proton db which happens to be open source and helps the community.
Brutally honest. Thanks Chris!
Linux in general needs better battery management.
I think linux on laptops have been fine, Its just not optimized for the type of Batteries that most mobile phones use, and PinePhone would have to restructure large parts of the linux kernal to fix this. Mobile phone batteries have completely different power delivery, charge cycle, energy density and more.
It would be nice to have a daily driver Linux phone, but at least we still have open source Android if needed
I know its not as seamless as fullblown Linux, but Termux has come a long way, its perfectly usable Linux with the advantages of having an Android system
As about open source Android, it's a bit of a shame that there's not enough accessible tutorials about ways of adopting it for other devices. There are less than 200 Android devices supported in open source repos.
I've seen guys on forums discussing creating custom Androids, but haven't found decent guideline yet.
I'm sure that I'll google it again when become interested, but if any of you are aware about this, I would like to take a hint. =)
I made a Termux tutorial with how to compile with it on android
Unfortunately open source Android has the same problem at least when it comes to app development haven't tried the roms. The F-Droid app is a mess and at least 2/3 of the apps on the store haven't been updated in anywhere from months to years.
i mean if you have the right phone you could try something like Ubuntu touch, i use it on the daily on a Xiaomi Mi 6 with few issues
Its honestly impressive how far software on the pinephones/mobile linuix in general has come in such a short time given how little money has been throw at the problem. I have to agree that andriod/IOS have a better user experience, but I just can't bring myself to use a device/OS combo that treats its users like a way to make money with no regrads for there freedom to do what they want with there own device.
And we have to take into account that Google and Apple have billions and billions of dollars to spend. Those guys are creating mobile linux from scratch without any special funding. I have to disgree with Titus. He is the kind of guy that in the 1990's would say "I will never use GNU/Linux, that's just garbage from a group of idealist programmers".
@@borisboridou8853 I have exactly the same feeling. Given that there are now a bunch of different projects trying to make mobile linux happen, i think it is only a matter of patience before some project gets it right. One cool thing behind open source is that its not all wasted, where one stops someone else can pick up later (to some extent). It's rough at the moment but given what we have seen happen with the steam deck and linux desktop overall in just the past 3 years alone it will be very interesting to see what things look like a few years from now
*It's (contraction of "it is" or "it has")
its = possessive
*Linux
*time, given
*has been thrown
*Android
*iOS
*regard
*their freedom (possessive)
they're = contraction of "THEY aRE"
there: for all other uses
*their own device
That really is the core of it. IDGAF if Linux Mobile is a 'bad Android', I'll take that over the absolutely egregious anti-consumer practices of Apple, Google and the major Android OEMs.
As a developer who owns and uses a PinePhone Pro to develop software, my respect for you has grown with this video.
Watch the full video, where he basically says it's a dead project. I have to disagree. I'm glad he's showing the phone, but sad he's proclaiming it dead and that mobile Linux will never be a thing.
@@root8272 I can see why some won't agree with the statement that it'll never be a thing. But what he means is mobile Linux won't replace iOS and Android with the current trajectory. That doesn't mean we shouldn't work towards that goal. I know the PinePhone is not a dead project. It's a development platform where progress is made slowly, but the system has come a long way since I started using it. What I respect is him making it clear that this isn't and will not be a phone the average Linux user. The PinePhones, and perhaps Pine 64, are just a stepping stone in that direction, and there's a long road ahead that still needs to be paved.
What makes Apple and Android phones successful are the hardware, OS and core applications and this belief that almost anything can be done from them does not need a desktop or laptop.
The hardware and software developers for Linux phones need to decide who their target customers are.
@@josephbenaiah3260 How are Linux phones dependent upon the desktop?
@@root8272 they aren't. With the right hardware, they can do far more than an Android or iOS phone.
And you're preaching to the the converted by the way. My first PDA was a Sharp Zaurus because it ran Linux. My first smartphone was a Nokia N900 because it ran Maemo5.
There is the third option that no one has considered except a company called Planet Computers with their devices. It's not to market it as a phone but as a communication device. Offering compute with WiFi, 4G and telephony.
Make no mistake. I want Linux mobile devices to succeed. It would be a game changer and offer real choice.
I write on Vim on my phone. This was basically made for me. If they solve the power management issues, and I can get 4-6 hours of working time while I am on the move, why not. It's the perfect distraction-free writing environment.
Vim on phone. I'd like to watch that. 😉
I just use Termux if I want to use vim
I adored my Nokia N900. Fantastic Maemo Linux phone. Only trouble I ever had with that device was the resistive screen that died after a few years. If that thing had had a capacitive screen, I'd still be using it.
Still have mine in full working condition along w nokia e90
I specifically purchased the N900 because Verizon had a WORLDWIDE EXCLUSIVE with Skype on the Android systems back in the day. As I was heading towards Europe, the N900's seamless integration with Skype calls was the only way to get Skype on mobile outside of the US.
Oooooh 😨😲. Resurrection on it's
Or it's too 🤣 Dãted now's
I'm still using mine
Mine is in my drawer with a broken usb port, that's the only thing that i hated about it.
Hi there, Chris!
I'm the editor for the PineTalk podcast.
If you want to glimpse into mobile Linux as it is, the PinePhone Pro is not the way to look.
Because the PinePhone Pro is fundamentally different underneath, the development *effectively* has to be redone.
The OG PinePhone is *really* where Linux mobile is at right now.
It's not 1000% better from what you see here, but the PinePhone Pro should not be the primary data point by which you measure the current state of Linux mobile.
I'll second this as a OG pinephone (3gb/32emmc) owner. Power management is much better over there. I get a day out of it with my usage patterns, and this is with no keyboard case at all. Call/txt/mms still could use some work, but they do work. And honestly the whole cellular communication system is quite overly complicated. It will be a while no matter what without $$.
And of course, this isn't to say that the PinePhone Pro isn't an interesting case study, but it's development is not an evolution of the PinePhone, but rather, an entirely separate device with completely separate development channels. The PinePhone Pro has only been out since last February (only announced last October!)--not even an year. Expecting it to be any sort of daily-drivable right now is, well, wishful thinking, haha.
@Cosmic Happiness "Linux fanboys". So, all the people that struggle against all the technical and economic difficulties to turn free and open source mobile computing a reality are just "fanboys" in the vision of this spoiled child.
@Cosmic Happiness a scam implies the PinePhone was marketed as daily drivable.
It was never advertised as such.
@Cosmic Happiness In fact, there's a note on the purchase page:
"Note:
Beta Edition PinePhones are aimed solely at early adopters. More specifically, only intend for these units to find their way into the hands of users with extensive Linux experience."
The only PinePhones sold have been Beta Editions.
No one is pitching a scam.
I don't think the Pinephone was ever targeted as the future. They're more on paving the way to the future. I still believe it'll be a viable option in the future though. They will never catch up with Android and iOS but they don't have to. Linux on mobile just needs to usable enough for Linux enthusiasts and people getting away from Google and Apple. It can be a middleground between a smartphone and a dumb phone.
I agree. I am not a developer but I am very interested in the PinePhone simply because I want to get away from Google and their blatant invasion of privacy. I don't need an amazing user experience. I just need a device that is stable when it comes to calls and texts (group and MMS would be nice but not a deal breaker) and I can tinker with.
It took Android FOREVER to get their power management down and they still don't have it perfect. I have owned a lot of Android phones since 2009 and that was always one of my struggles with them...Linux will be no different except they may never get to the point that Android has gotten to...but that's ok if it gives me that ability to still communicate but also control who has access to my privacy.
@@jjwagnell that's right i think we need to be honest about that as we need to be honest about desktop linux. Much of the devs are doing what they like, they don't steer to mass adoption, as sxmo (which i use on my pinephone as daily driver) like i feel is the project of people who want a phone that suits their needs, not that of every one. If their needs, again as in the desktop world, suits your needs you are fine, if not you will have an awfull experience.
For me i really don't need much out of my phone which android provides so i'm fine with the pinephone. Browsing the web, reading news through rss feeds, listen to audiobooks and get calls and sms is all i want, and that works, also sshing in your phone and vice versa is cool.
But it is a tinkering device, so if you don't want to tinker and make linux stuff android (or an foss version of it) might be better for you.
Yep
I enjoy my Xperia with SailfishOS as a daily driver - using rsync to backup the files is just so nice!
Was one i was looking at, sony tends to be decent hardware quality. Never got the chance to try one tho and at this rate im not happy with verizon or tmobile, miss sprint. Others were moto z2 force for shatterproof and dual usbc or just sayin screw it and doing a pixel with calyx/graphene/lineage and a usbc hub. But if i do that im goin full Calyx for cell service and losing my google accounts.
@@ThirtytwoJ Never got the weirdness of US modile carriers. Sounds like a plan to me. I'm so glad I got rid of google for everything except YT.
@@slalomsk8er397 its probably more the hardware. Dont wanna throw money away on a phone and still be locked onto googles bs or lose ability to call kinda bs.
untold amounts of money and thousands of programmers for android and apple. oh yea, and a 10 year head start.
maybe a hundred or so people starting from scratch contributing in their free time for 2 years.
and the man said "never."
the pinephone is not a daily driver, but what has been accomplished during shortages these past 2 years is pretty damn impressive. If you want a daily linux phone I would say SailOs, a fairphone or one of the custom rom flashes are going to be better for the average person. Once Risc gets out there and manufacturers can't lock down firmware or sue you, things should get spicy.
"Oh, people weren't meant to fly; God would have given us wings".....1903, first airplane flight....66 years later, first manned landing on the Moon. Chris isn't saying Linux on the phone won't ever happen, but the pace of realistic consumer-friendly development means Pinephone ain't gonna be it anytime soon. And they may have been beaten already by the KaiOS project, which has phones being sold worldwide using their platform. But hey, the ReactOS people have been working for over 20 years to build a binary-compatible Windows NT, so maybe Pinephone can do better in less time.
@@markh.6687 actually, Chris did say it was never going to happen, and didn't even allude to what you are plainly stating.
That said, I agree with you on the nature of beginnings, and I wish Chris had said what you've suggested he said
Its fine to have a salty hot take, but never is a strong word. I very much treat it as a Raspberry Pi in that having a Linux phone as a gadget has been a very useful learning experience. It got me to compile my first linux kernel, figure out how to apply patches, and learn more about Alpine (i use Arch BTW), device trees and drivers, and non systemd alternatives. I could have done all that on a desktop, but the phone was motivating and its good to have dreams.....try not to be too disappointed. I'll keep supporting efforts like this and the deck because the alternative is to lose all hope to anti competitive monopolies who go against most of my principals.
I though this phone had a ton of possibility. It has some good ideas but you’re so right - the phone is DOA unless some company can put developers full time programming on it. It is just an expensive toy. You’re spot on
Excellent review, straight to the point no intro of the intro well done, subscribed.
I would love a a linux phone! Support those developers and hope for the best
I'm still holding onto hope. I want an option other than android/iphone. Give me a phone that works for calls, can receive sms (for garbage logins that only offer sms for 2fa), can run signal, gps/maps, a browser to look up random things, and most of a day's battery life while being privacy focused and not collecting/selling my information. Oh and an alarm clock. I think that's really all I need. As soon as something checks all of those boxes I'll happily switch. I think as I get older my needs for my phone continue to decrease. I know there's the alt-android options of lineage and similar, but my impression is you're still fighting with google play services or micro g or whatever and if I'm going to go down a "it works with some fiddling" path then I really don't want google involved at all.
You could get a PDA with a cell radio
that's why I really wish/hope Valve would tackle this or a variant of Steam OS that supports more features.
But what's in it for them really?
The only thing I could see if making some games mobile friendly through Box86/Box64 maybe visual novels/story-based games, some RTS games, but what else really? Maybe if they make like the PSP Phone?
Maybe pushing their messaging service harder to go against discord and convince users to buy Steam Points with real money? it's really hard to picture it as a possibility and I just can't see them doing it but honestly that's the closest bet we got, either that or Sailfish OS going open source to speed up other distros lacking features (which I also don't see happening).
I had a similar experience with my librem 5 which I just sold. Custom ROMs are the way forward for me. You can get privacy & customization while keeping the comfort of Android apks. There's also sailfish OS as a middle ground between the two.
If you install MicroG on your Sailfish, you have a Linux phone with Android apps, but no Google tracking. (Which you also have without MicroG, out of the box, but can't use Android apps that make use of Google services).
Can't ageee with your final thoughts. You forgot about Ubuntu Touch and it's growing ecosystem. (I've been daily driving a Nexus 5 for 2 years and I've got more pros than cons). I'm expecting a 'Part 2' video about Linux phones, this one is just so unfair..
yeah. Frankly I think saying linux will never be a good phone OS just because it's not good now is kind of asinine. It took linux desktop DECADES to be where it is now, where you could genuinely, honest to god, install it on a non-techies computer, give them a 30 minute tour, and them be more or less fine. (don't get me wrong, that is a RECENT development, I mean you're only just now arguably getting similar adoption of Nvidia to AMD in the linux space, but, well, exactly. It is a RECENT, development. So, only RECENTLY did it really become a drop-in competitor, and with a little bit of corporate backing with the Steamdeck no less. It took literal DECADES for it to take off, and he's saying that because it's only for techies after 2 years it'll never happen? You've given it 10% of the time and, frankly, already have 25-70% of the experience, and you're calling it a lost cause?
Not really logical to me. Linux has ALWAYS started for techies. Honestly, I'd imagine the first people to really adopt linux devices will be journalists, rich assholes, politicians, etc., in short, people with a lot to lose. Since the entire thing being open source will mean you can be far more confident in it's security and privacy, it seems like people with the most need for that sort of thing will be the ones who pick it up first. Then, what was once their work phone will become their phone phone, and hopefully overtime that spreads.
Heartbreaking, man. I was in the same boat. I'm not a dev or anything, but I'm comfortable using linux. And I just wanted an alternative to Android/Apple. The appledroid does a lot of shit I just don't like, and I want more freedom with my device. I wanted Pinephone pro to be the thing. I'm glad I found your video, and to see somebody have made one so very recently.
Steam Deck, however... that shit is blowing my mind. My partner got one recently and it blew me away at how well it worked, and how usable the desktop experience was. If they could shrink that down, I'd just use that, man.
3:40 I think that's a good place to ask my question, due to this topic. I've bought Nexus 5 without battery and bought a new stock battery for this model, then install Ubuntu Touch on it. And battery-life (without any usage of phone, including SIM and Wi-Fi connection) is max 2,5 days. Is it really could be a system fault or did I just bought a crap battery?
I think you're missing the point that the hardware is now there... and the software (being in the open source world) will follow.
I could vaguely get behind a dumb phone, since Android and Apple are garbage to work with in the long run, but I'd much rather go back to my Nokia N900 or one of my other old Nokia smartphones... those were Linux phones, and they were fantastic apart from the quick-to-decalibrate resistive screens.
What low power mode(s) did you use? Mine lasts a good two days on standby, but you have to put it into the right standby mode first. Hold volume up for a couple seconds and it locks the screen (blue LED). Repeat once and it's in low power mode (red LED).
To wake it, tap the power button (LED flashes red/blue, display comes on), then hold it for a second or two (phone unlocked, LED off).
Have you considered postmarket OS
Can someone please tell me how people get their hands on this keyboard? I cannot find a link anywhere!
I bought a Pinephone shortly after they launched and I have exactly the same take as you do. I was pretty disappointed by the lack of support for the phone and ended up selling it roughly a year after purchase. I doubt I'll ever go back to using another Linux phone, but I guess you never know.
Hey @Reed's Redactions
try out Sailfish OS.
You really should have kept the original PinePhone, it is so much better a year later! Especially if you get the 3GB RAM version.
Thanks so much for your honesty always appreciated
It is as you say, however, Pine64 says up front the phones are not ready for the general public, but are for developers and tinkerers. There's no false advertising about it.
Google Pixel6 running AOSP is looking like the best current non-Apple and non-Android option. You need to flash it on over Android, but there is a cool website to assist with this process.
The only way I would imagine Linux mobile picking up the pace in the future would be for Steam to miraculously get into mobile games and launch a SteamDeck/Smartphone hybrid meant for daily driving and playing games, the odds are slim at best but I consider it more likely than the pinephones suddenly getting on track with their development in the next years.
Word "never" is a stubborn one. Nevertheless thank you for sharing your opinion. You've mentioned an interesting point on dumb phones and their connection with productivity level. I'm really looking forward to see how dumb phone will shape your current smartphone usage in a long run.
Sometimes I think that Chris Titus has the attitude of a spoiled child
I love Chris' work and honesty of opinion. And obviously he calls it rightly; an hour use time on a cellphone is worse than useless. Consumers won't cobble together an OS, or burn EEPROMs, or trans-warp boot a subsystem to run something else by way of slipstreaming a cross-platform, modular blah, blah, blah into an Android or iPhone. We want power on, power up, and to use it. Oddly enough, Chris moving to a 'dumb phone' shows some support for the average user.
My preferred mobile ever is still Nokia N900 and its Maemo Linux OS. It was so good for its time and with a sliding keyboard it was quite productive even with its small screen. So sad that Nokia stopped its development... Maybe I should try its descendent Sailfish OS one day.
I'm on my third phone with Sailfish and I just can't stand the attitude iOS and Android.
It's supported by postmarket os so why not? :)
My PinePhone stopped working several weeks after connecting the keyboard. Now the PinePhone (without the keyboard) just boots to a blue solid led with nothing on the screen.
Have you looked into LinageOS ? It works pretty well for me on my android phone.
Hi. Is there such attachable keyboard extension for android phones?
What about KaiOS? I heard about it as an "OS for not-so-smartphones", it is kinda Linux-based.
I maybe try it in the future just as an experiment, phone with it costs like $20 here where I live.
Is Jolla still alive? that was a really good linux phone experience even way back when I was rocking a Galaxy Nexus
I appreciate a honest review as much as anyone but there is no need to be so pessimistic about the future. Just like how the Linux desktop came a long way, the phone will inevitably do that too.
Yeah, but at this pace, it might be in 10-20 years...
@@Winnetou17 Linux mobile now is about like Linux desktop in the late 90's - there are some potential candidates with some promise, but they still need plenty of work to get even close to mainstream because most users don't have the time, interest, or knowledge to play with Linux enough to get it to do what they want - and when Apple and Android make it so easy, there's no incentive.
ordered in 2020, still have not received my pro1x. and when I do it will not have the features I paid for (HDMI out, SD865 -> SD662). the forums are full of battery and connectivity issues. not impressed with fxtec.
I would still buy this. Love the keyboard + i3-gaps like setup.
I really like Ubuntu on the surface go (4gb ram), other than a couple issues like not waking up when the keyboard cover is closed and reopened. Obviously, it doesn't have the phone part and is slightly bigger, but the GTK applications are really nice on a 10inch touch screen.
It will run mysql server and can develop/compile gtk applications on it.
Try Ubuntu Touch on a ported device. My tablet runs it on a Lenovo M10 TB-X605F and it works well.I have Ubuntu running on a Linx 1010b tablet and due to it being a z-series tom, not everything works, but again it is very usable.
:) WELL DONE and said! I too would like to see Linux succeed in the mobile world! I am still waiting for my Fx1-Pro 2 YEARS later after I paid for it :( ALL the BEST and Cheers! :)
Great work 🥳🥳🥳 Thank you 💜💜💜
Nokia had quite good Linux distro in some phones. 🤔
And that lives on in Sailfish OS
Just bought one, it arrived today, so I'll see how it all goes. Over time there will no doubt be a network-effect of adoption by developers and engineers getting involved with pinephone and linux mobile, so I think at some point it will snowball, but perhaps for the moment we are on the flat lower x-axis edge of the asymptote where the x-axis is time and y axis is development (and overall involvement, adpotion and effort). I wouldn't be quite so negative about the future just because of you having it for a year or 2 and not seeing resolution to certain core problems. Things can take off surprisingly quickly. Still appreciate the frankness of the review.
You really make the Pine phone sound like the Oliver Twist of the smart phone industry. It may not be able to catch up with the other cool kids yet, but I have "Great Expectations"
From thumbnail i tought that this is fxtec pro1 x.
Btw i wonder how good is android on this pinephone pro just to compare to linux
Just like you said, these non-android linux phones are for developers only. They lack way too much to be daily driven by an average user. Maybe they should focus more on that "for developers" approach. I liked the keyboard too.
I mean I think that's what they're focused at anyways
Pine64 has been pushing they are for developers, especially the Pro.
Yeah I just really, really want to have a modern Motorolla Flipside. If I could do what the Flipside did with my Note, I would be so happy.
would be cool if you could do a pine laptop review too. All thats online are first impressions really
Thank you for your honesty.
I must say, I'm more impressed from video to video of your objectivity, Chris. I'm a GNU/Linux lover and open source supporter, but as you said some things will never work for diverse reasons. I'd love to use on daily basis all open source software, but I just can't. There are certain applications that are not ported to the GNU/Linux platform, and some are years behind with the development. Sad but true. So I like your videos because you're a great in knowledge, and also objective when comes to different platforms. I was to buy a Pine phone two years ago, but a voice inside just told me to wait.
What's weird is saying that because power management issues haven't been fixed by this arbitrary time, that they're never going to be. I don't get what's so special about this time frame that causes you to act like it's a dead thing. It's definitely not. Also, as someone that saw Linux become pretty damn usable on the desktop, I know that these things move at a snail's pace compared to what people are used to. When it's not a commercial product for a company, it's all volunteer, and when it's all volunteer, it's going to just be done in people's free time as a passion project. Don't expect it to be moving so quickly, and don't set some arbitrary date for yourself. As long as people aren't happy with the mobile space as it currently exists, there will be people contributing to this effort.
Maybe valve will make a gaming smart phone at some point. This problem needs money and hard work, not a random dev starting a new UI for mobile Linux.
Hey also did you ever get ufw to work on any of your linux distributions?
Could the steam deck battery optimisations not be ported into these mobile os's? might give these mobile os's a leg up on their development.
The issue is actually about battery usage so much as sleep-mode functionality, the modem needs to be able to 'push' alerts to the phone, i.e. to ring when a phone call comes in even if OS is in sleep mode. Currently the modem and OS dont play nice, and its a shame because it looks like its deliberate.
atrocious is probably the right word, however have you tried nextcloud, tailscale and syncthing to sync data with a storage at home?
The PunkT phone's operating system is a modified version of Android. You aren't exactly leaving the ecosystem in that case.
De-googled phone is a good intermediary option if you don't want to jump to a dumb phone straight away. How about you do a video on this option?
Do you have a link to where you got your phone?
I think the Ubuntu Touch project and Sailfish OS are the ones who are winning the linux mobile race. Things like Halium are progressing much further then native hardware support like the pinephone. Sailfish have some real partners like Sony and Volla which allow them to support phones well, while UT has Volla, FxTec just running Halium and a whole swath of ports to work on android phones. I think Halium has proven to be way more reliable.
Sure Halium is not FOSS exactly as it relies on Vendor Blobs to operate, but for a good linux experience like I am getting with UT I really don't think I care enough to complain. Pinephone is good to tinker, but if you want a workable linux phone, use a Halium supported device.
My daily driver these days is a Pixel 3a running Ubuntu Touch, and it really is an excellent phone, using OpenStore, Libertine and Waydroid I can do even more then I can on an android making it lots of fun. While my pinephone, is just being a buggy pinephone.
How is it doing with external display ?
Try auto-cpufreq for power management of PPP. I think I get now about 2.5 hours out of standby and I have not yet worked on careful tuning of max frequency limit which does have huge effect. At 400 MHz on 6 cores it lasts way longer.
Also Steam Deck is a looong wait queue. I am waiting for mine for half a year already. Might get in November xD
I wouldnt say all linux phone or phone OS are bad. Sailfish OS (based from meego) does have a good battery life....
With you mentioning the steam deck and how Linux phones are not there yet makes me want Valve to make a Steam Phone
On the pinephone pro, I never got either cameras to work.
I have the pinebook pro, and that I absolutely love. The battery doesn't last that long, but it was $220 and has a magnesium shell. Also, that one runs the mainline kernel.
I agree that without actual developers, this will go nowhere. Even the keyboard I got, so far I only got it to work with Mobian, not postmarketOS nor arch.
Anyway, I'm glad I didn't sell my current phone when I got the pinephone pro. Seriously it's just hardware that can't do anything because the software is too complicated to develop.
i'm gonna hold off on selling mine at the moment i treat it like a small laptop with the keyboard it lasts me the whole day and i can watch stuff with mpv and also can programm when sitting outside and with the beta branch of manjaro it's not that bad. i have never tried it for phone calls or sms because i don't need it for that right now so im gonna be patiant and see what comes and don't doom it because it's not developing at a rapid speed
Give it a decade, maybe after they're done with the Deck and have had another crack at consoles and VR, perhaps Valve will throw their weight at linux UX on even smaller devices... (maybe not, but you still have to wonder where they will go next)
@@randzopyr1038 Well the thing is, any steam console would be more like the deck, i.e. entirely open (in terms of software you can run) and more like a full pc and people do buy those (and without having to pay for a win licence they would be almost £100 cheaper) .
Nah, I actually think that VR wise, the evil zucc is right, we just need cheaper and lighter headsets. I just thought since it's an existing valve project it might see more work before an entirely new project.
I actually think the mobile thing I randomly threw out is way more far-fetched, the audience is a minority of privacy concerned people that aren't ready for a dumb phone who already have degoogled android as an option. Maybe you can approach it from the "people who care about phone games" angle, but then again, why would they care about a new phone os?
How is it as just a mobile terminal??
Does he not get whiplash going from a phone that doesn't have a camera to a phone that has a full desktop manager? 😁
First, when PinePhonePro released I thought it was a very bad idea bc the original pinephone was about a cheap low power device to tinker with while the PinePhonePro was a much more expensive product that carries a not great soc for a mobile device, in fact, it would be as bad as putting a rpi4 soc on a mobile phone.. it's just too old and inefficient, taking aside the problems we face with power management on linux.
I don't think it's a good product in the way that it doesn't make much sense to buy a very expensive linux phone that doesn't have a proper soc.
I also reached that conclusion about linux phones. My main reason for wanting it to be a thing is privacy, which I can get (somewhat) with a custom Android ROM, or with an iPhone if I have good opsec and have the correct settings ticked on.
i agree... well said Kodeb
I would like to have a phone like my PC, with easily replaceable parts and dual booting between Linux and AOSP.
The Sailfish OS is not a Linux system?
I always felt like Linux has been a great software experiment. But getting the experiment to work with hardware? That's another challenge.
It's still amazing how well it works on any PC and Mac OS. I don't bring laptops or devices everywhere I go anymore; I just bring a M2 with Linux on it, and use whatever device is available. And although not all all software and hardware always work, it's enough to bring my ecosystem of programs, desktop environment, games, and media, anywhere I go.
Do other Linux phones have the same issues?
I would like something like this, but if it has a worse battery than a well-worn WiiU Gamepad, that makes it a turn off. (No pun intended)
I run my phone 10+ hours a day for music and podcasts all day at work and then some.
may as well get a UMPC Instead. Hopefully someday we’ll see some with the portable form factor of the pinephone but for now, UMPCs are mostly 3DSXL or tablet sized. Steam deck is one of the best UMPCs for the price. If not THE best.
Linux is server/desktop first, Mobile/PDA last. At least it can be a low power server maybe. Get *some* use out of it.
My stack has served me well for many years now on Gemini PDA, and now currently FX Tec Pro 1x. SFOS+LXC Containers is the meta. I recommend this.
It's soooo Mr. Robot I want one😅.
Reminds me of my first gadget device - a Psion 5MX, yes I'm old lol. I wish they made keyboard cases for phones...
Bought a Pinephone a couple years ago thinking it would be decent enough to at the very least use it as a regular phone, since I daily drive (and still do) an old BlackBerry 9800.
Though, no matter what I did with the Pinephone, be it a daily Driver, a makeshift mobile data router (probably the best use I found for it), or even as a portable desktop running a barebones Arch Linux, the thing would always have problems and would generally be too slow compared to everything else I had. Like when a 10 year old Java based phone, and a 20 year old desktop PC can outperform the Pinephone in every way you know something's wrong.
What made it worse is not too long after I got the thing, the Pinephone pro was released, and I was not interested in buying another. If you want a pocket PC, don't buy a Pinephone, buy a Raspberry Pi instead. It's way cheaper and like 10 times stronger than the Pinephone.
First, a raspberry pi is a complete different product. Rpi is not more powerful than an rk3399 and in fact they are 28 nm chips, they are on the same spot on power efficiency. Compare it with a rpi4 based phone next time and tell me how wonderful an rpi phone is
I wouldn't recommend a pinephone pro bc a 28nm chip with big cores is a big NO GO. But you are comparing apples with potatos.
@@microlinux
They may be the same power wise, but my god is the RK3399's compatibility shit. A Rpi4 can run Raspian: a Debian based version of Linux with a Mate DE, and it's basically like running a 10 year old PC from what I've seen. Meanwhile the PinePhone can barely run IceWM on a minimal Arch install, and using Firefox or even Falkon is a sluggish nightmare.
Sure the Rpi4 isn't close to being a phone, but the Pinephone barely works as a phone to begin with, and my backup of using it as a mini-PC was a waste because the Pinephone doesn't work as a mini-PC either, and I would have been better off buying a damn Rpi that this phone shaped paper weight.
@@thepuzzlemaster64 absolutely not, I have much superior performance on an RK3399 than on RPi4 for sure. The pinephonepro has a lower quality rk3399 that run at lower frequencies.
Rk3399 sbcs can run absolutely every distribution. Armbian for debian and ubuntu, manjaro, also EFI fedora or archlinux. There are some flags to enable here and there inside the browser that improve performance that are already enabled on rpi os. Also, Rpi OS use lxde, not mate.
@@thepuzzlemaster64 get me an rpi4 phone to compare, just that is what I am asking for. Rpi4 is an sbc, not a phone. The rockpro64 is far superior sbc as desktop compared to rpi4, that's for sure true.
Did you tried sailfish?
I’m thinking about getting a pine phone as an advanced PDA
Will never be a thing? Then why there's no stock of the Pinephone ATM (Out of stock as soon as they have new stock) and people who have them are receiving updates in a daily basis. Chris, you are underestimating mobile Linux and the power of the community.
I think he's referring to the average cell phone user moving to the Pinephone or any Linux phone.
Can't wait for that dumb phone video!
As a PinePhone (non-pro) owner I can totally see the extremely slow phase at which it moves forward. I don't think Linux phones will NEVER be a viable choice, I would be perfectly happy with a simpler phone, although it has to nail down the basics such as power management and handling calls - everything above that are extras from my point of view.
What happened to the Ubuntu convergence devices and OS that was supposed to be mobile and desktop at the same time? Anyone knows? I really hope for things like these to succeed but lots of things need to change for that.
it still exists, most Ubuntu Touch phones support desktop modes and many can plug into monitors or docks or run wireless display casting as well as keyboard and mouse if you have a dock.
It's a sad reality, but without corporate backing and sponsorships, as well as shipping Linux by default, this, or any other project like it, will never take off
I would totally like to use linux on my phone, but what is so wrong with android?
"This seems like it's just for developers" seems to be the issue with so much of linux development. Too many linux devs are like writers writing stories about writers. They seriously have to start making things CONSUMER READY as an operational standard and have respect for their users. Much respect to Linux Mint being one of the few community lead projects that actually seems to care about the standard user experience, but aside from them, it's one of the justifying reasons for keeping big business in charge of software (ie Redhat, Ubuntu, System76). People are still treating Linux like some college project.
I disagree. I think many of the Linux Desktop distributions are very user friendly, and easily ready for an average user. Although, on the phone side it's "just for developers" because it's not at that point yet. The same way an unfinished building would be just for construction workers, but the open source nature of it means we can test it out all we want.
The hubris is amazing. Telling volunteers what they should be doing. Put your time where your mouth is, and donate hours and hours of your time, showing them how it's done.
I also disagree. It's an old take that's much less of a problem now. While it's certainly true to an extent, and clearly immensly more true on Linux than on other OSs, there's plenty of devs and projects that are user-centric, with users being casual people, not into development.
Examples: besides Linux Mint, there's also Ubuntu, Manjaro, Pop OS!, Zorin, Endeavor, oh, Fedora too. Also the Gnome and KDE desktop environments. While they might not be at Linux Mint's level of casual-friendly, it's undeniable that they all strive for that.
And frankly, if it wasn't for many hardware manufactures not bothering to make drivers for Linux, or doing a poor job of it, with NVidia on top, then Linux would've been a pretty good desktop experience for several years already.
Not to say there's no things left on Linux side to be developed or improved, but I think that the main issues that Linux has right now are hardware drivers. Like Linus from LTT, recently he got a laptop to check from Eurrora. Or Eurorra, cannot remember. It was a nice very expensive laptop that came with Ubuntu preinstalled. With Wayland. And an NVidia GPU. And things simply didn't worked there. Linux cannot get mainstream until these kind of things simply don't exist anymore.
Developers usually make tools for themselves. It should not be surprising that such tools are often useful to other developers and not just to the original creators. For something to become non-developer user friendly will take motivation (think funding) and organization (think... business).
@@Winnetou17 Good reply and made me reconsider things
I know you wish it could be as competitive as android is, but we will keep on trying. It is the product of our efforts. People get used to perfection, but in order to keep the flame on they have to see projects like these as Perfectibles. Constantly improoving.
Who knows? "Gaming on Linux will never going to happen" said someone... Oh, it was you. Not that I will use it, unless it's for work.
I bought myself a Xperia 10 III and installed Sailfish on it recently, the OS is great and I much prefer it to both Android and iOS. However I can't use it as my only phone because here in Europe the big banks have colluded to make the "BankID" application a de-facto standard.
Basically you need that application to identify yourself on various services, banking, postal, tax, medical etc.. The BankID application is only officially supported on recent versions of iOS and Android, they actively block anyone trying to run it on unsupported platforms. I'm not happy about the situation at all, considering filing complaint to EU regulators about this (I work for a major european network provider).
Thanks for the honest review! Linux is already a tough sell on consumer laptops and desktop; I can't see it getting any traction at all on smartphones. Even the maker of the most popular consumer grade Linux distro, Canonical, essentially came to the same conclusion and gave up on Ubuntu Touch.
I can't see Linux catches on laptops and desktops, but it can make huge potential for smartphones. Just like Android Desktop Mode, the phone could end up being the only computer someone ever needs.
SXMO is pretty awesome, but it'll take me quite a bit of getting used to (not to mention probably a bunch of custom tools) until I'm ready to daily it.
I don't think linux phones will ever have the mass appeal of iOS & Android, much like linux in general. For us it's absolutely awesome, but for Joe Bloggs who wants ease of use above all, and out of the box - it's unworkable.
Development-wise, the first hurdle will be reliable operation. No missed calls & texts are tolerable. At that point the phone is usable as a main phone and everything else will follow naturally.
The Nokia N900 was really the best phone in 2009 and 2010 that hit the spot. If I had a Linux phone today, it would be a secondary device which defeats the purpose.
As a Linux junky myself, kudos for honest and sober review
I still miss my Nokia N900. Also Sony Clio's... color PalmOS... it was fun.
Thanks for your honest opinion.
Why not use Sailfish OS on it? :)
As much I'd love to have a native Linux Phone, I would be happy with such keyboard attachments alone by now.
Too bad no Android has those these days and I doubt the Gemini still sees further updates.
There's one called "f(x)tec Pro 1 x" (I hate trying to find that name every time) and Cosmos something. I forget, it's been a while since I looked into it.
@@chloe-sunshine7 Hmm 👀
Might it be Cosmo Communicator?
I believe that one is from the same guys who did the Gemini.
I'd drool to get hands on that one tbh but 500 bucks is rough.
@@MegaManNeo Yes! That's the one! It just looked so big though. Not sure if I'd want a phone that big even if that keyboard looks delicious
@@MegaManNeo I totally forgot about the Astro Slide! That one looked really promising
@@chloe-sunshine7 ha! I can see why you'd not like a phone of that size but the concept really died out due to how good touch screens are these days.
Wouldn't mind the NexDock either but not every phone is good with Type C desktop stuff.
thank you for that, it does suck lol, can't wait to hear about the none smart phone :)
Thanks Chris
Hey can AOSP go on it?