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I hate movies that can’t even tell a story. It’s like they get halfway through their story and they say “I’m not smart enough to finish this, let’s call it interpretive art” What a waste of time
In addition to Paxton admitting to her disbelief in prayer, she also explained she wished to reincarnate as a butterfly. Reincarnation is against Mormon beliefs, so her offering to choose the door of disbelief was on-brand as she's demonstrated a few times that she isn't a genuine believer
Interesting, not an oversight since both the actresses are former Mormons! But I don't know if i'd say Paxton isn't genuine, I think she's a true survivor and the disbelief door was trying to keep Mr Reeeeeed happy, the fact she prayed in the face of the final danger in the basement and until her passing, would make me think she was actually a true believer. and IF you think the first ending is true, then she is a believer AND a chosen enough for a miracle to happen to save her. But it's up for debate!
I agree that the heretic in Heretic was Paxton. But also, there is also this thing among some Mormons where they say they will come back and give a sign. It's not reincarnation. It may be LIKE reincarnation. It's not an official Mormon doctrine by any means, but it's a thing I heard growing up LDS here and there. There's a song called I'll Build You A Rainbow that was popular in the 80s with Mormons, where a boy's dead mother presents herself as a rainbow so he knows she is still present. But with that said, Paxton is still the Heretic in the movie.
As a former Mormon, that line did strike me as unfamiliar when it came to what we were told and taught to repeat throughout life. Reincarnation is not learned and that small foreshadowing of her still finding her own personal set of beliefs was a interesting turn.
You didn't mention the phone at the end when she climbs out of the window. It still said no service when she drops it outside, while they had service outside before going into the home. I think she never left and she's hallucinating/dying.
She's also still bleeding to death. I don't think she patched herself up or anything and she doesn't find help. She can just suddenly move around like normal again.
My argument for that theory would be that, sometimes, a phone's signal will not reconnect immediately after leaving a location that would disrupt its connection. It could take either a few seconds or a couple of minutes for it to even get a bar of signal (that's also depending on the location, service, and phone model, of course), and the camera at the end focuses on the phone for about 8 seconds before she picks it up, and I would say that her phone does get at least a bar in the very next shot. But then again, that's just my interpretation.
Not to mention the butterfly at the end again but in addition to the butterfly disappearing, it got deadly quiet suddenly. No outside noise anymore and she acknowledges it. Credits. This seems to me that she died in that moment. Meaning she went through all of that just to die post escape. She did escape. And I think in the moment of adrenaline crash allowed her body to give up and she died once she knew she was free. Tragic but beautiful.
See I thought she died too, but when the Mr. Reed crawled up to her, I think that’s when it happened. I think she imagined Sister Barnes saving her and her escaping, but it didn’t actually happen. i think that was her reincarnating as that butterfly
I agree that she made it outside before she died. The snow is often referenced as her own mental pre-death concoction representing heaven and clouds, but I don’t think she’d have known that it had begun to snow earlier. The snow didn’t start to fall until after they were already trapped in the house, so not sure she’d have known about it (remember it was only raining when they’d arrived). I may be missing something - maybe there was a point where she saw the snow outside through a window or something - otherwise the snow would not have been a likely thing for her to concoct, and therefore she was seeing it for real.
I think that the good ending is likely for the reason that the even bigger reveal than Mr. Reed not believing in religion is that Paxton isn't a literalist. Her explanation of the prayer experiment aligns with the theme of absolute certainty in either direction being absurd, and that she is making the conscious choice to believe. The butterfly appears and disappears to show that she is aware it isn't there, but chooses to see it anyway as a representative of Barnes.
I really like this. I could also see the butterfly disappearing because Paxton is being revived. The exit from the house is her last moments of consciousness, and her brain starts to make a beautiful picture. but her phone is connecting and as soon as it gets signal, which they had outside the house, it will connect and the messages they left and texts they sent will go through, alerting the elders to where they are. You could see the disappearance of the butterfly as her brain ceasing to paint this insane picture as she dies, the silence as her brain coming back on line, and the credits rolling not as her death but as her being yanked back into reality. Just a take.
I thought Mr Reed is a sexual predator and serial killer and all of the religious stuff is just his way of internally justifying his sexual deviance. just before Barnes stabs him, he’s creeping up behind her, talking about her underwear, and telling her that the one true religion is control; of course because he has all the control that makes him God in this religion, and that matches the pattern of serial killers who are motivated by sexual deviance, but who justify it to themselves by casting themselves as much smarter and more clever than their victims, who are almost subhuman in the killer’s eyes, and are therefore deserving, again in the killers eyes, of abuse and murder at the hands of the killer. I think prophet ate the pie because it was her way to escape what had been years of torture and abuse.
He also starts playing with her hair in that scene right before the code word, it's like the moment he thinks he has "won", the mask is slipping and he is letting his true motivation show. It's very subtle but it's there.
I don't know, I think there would have been more hints before if that was the case. He isn't very subtle but it does fit in his "control" I just think he's honestly more focused on wanting to be right. And the many mentions on the undergarments is because they are a big part of mormons/TLDS, seeings undergarments out of religion is one of the worst things you could do and thus they arent very known about. Also not all mormons wear them and sneak past the rules
They all died, her leaving the house was her soul being free from her body. Endings are more beautiful than beginnings because everything gets slowly revealed to you, all your suffering and worry are vanquished and there is nothing but peace. What your meant to do on earth is your business but when it’s your time to go whether your ready or not embrace it.
There was also the subtle moment when Mr Reed corrects the sisters over a quote that they started talking about, informing them that the quote actually belonged to Voltaire, a known anti papal conspirator, atheist, and often credited with being the brain child of the French Revolution. It gives the audience the inclination that Mr Reed's "quest" for the one true religion ended up leading him down a path of apostasy etc That is to say, for as much as he was clued up in all the theology of world religions, he was equally clued up with the atheistic arguments too
This one ending is a paradox of life. Creating a lot of mystery and uncertainty. The one certain thing is Mr. Reid is an asshole for torturing sister missionaries.
I like to think the "good ending" is what actually happened. I like to think that Sister Barnes coming back to life was a "true miracle", a kind of resurrection to show the faith the two girls had, and the love of Sister Barnes to come back and save her friend. Mr. Reed's act was a magic trick, like stated earlier in the film, but what the Sisters had was the "real deal". At least, that's what I like to think. Even if, like religion, I only believe it's happening to give myself some kind of comfort about Sister Paxton surviving.
I wonder if there is even some kind of meta meaning in that, we want to believe it because we WANT her to survive, it comforts us. But as Mr Reed says "even though all the evidence points to the contrary". Cos I know on paper, TRUE ENDING makes sense. But I REALLY want to believe the good one.
My take on the ending is similar to the film makers take. We choose what we believe and that makes it our reality. That's why paxton brings up the prayer experiment. It doesnt matter that "it doesnt work" what matters is how it makes you feel and that colors your view of the world. Notice how mr. Reed was very knowledgeable but he wasnt very happy/satisfied. Paxton looked like she found peace. We choose what we see at the end
Not really. Happiness is just a temporal thing. The main themes of the movie (according to me at least) is obsession, knowledge and faith. A triune problem (pun intended). You see all of the characters are deeply flawed when it comes to their consistency, wich comes through in their dialogue. Non really holds up to scrutiny when it comes to their beliefs. The movie shows as much. There's so much to unpack I really have to rewatch the entire movie again (oh goody, and actual psychological thriller/horror that works and has levels) but in essence I'm going to stick to the main antagonist. He's clearly an intellectual and has an obsessive need to know what is true. He hasn't been able to figure out if any of the religions are true at all but has this incessant need to keep testing for it. Because it's a question without an answer. It's an itch he can't scratch. He's obsessed with finding out the truth. But there's really only one way to get to that truth. An inevitability. The end of the road. Game over. Death. Only in death can he find out wich one was the right religion (as can we all) so the question remains unanswered. And this bothers him. His quest remains unfulfilled. And yet there's a need to find an answer to a question that has non. Obsession takes over. He wants to know the right path to take. But doesn't. After years and years of studying in depth the thing he needs what he really lacks is faith. He can't commit to anything, because his mind won't let him. What if it's the wrong one. How can we know wich is the right one?. And so the spiral continues and he lost his mind in the process. But can't let go because he needs to know before it's too late. He's essentially a man ruled by fear. He needs certainty and no religion actually gives certainty. Even in his misguided conclusion he is factually inconsequent to himself. As he remains searching endlessly repeatedly trying to push the envelope to no avail. Yet he hasn't given up, and won't. In that respect the girls have him dead to rights. Everyone needs something to believe in. Even if its not going to lead to an actual answer everyone is still searching. So is mister Reed until his last breath. He's hoping to solve the riddle that has taken his sanity and is now effectively ruling his life. He can't let it go. Because he has to know the unknowable about the unknown. Lest he die before solving the equation. When in the last scene he sobs when she's praying he's actually still hoping for a miracle. Because deep down he really does want something to happen, anything. To find a reason to believe in something or see a sign of gods existence. When that doesn't happen yet again, he get's frustrated and angry at yet another flawed attempt to appeal to this higher authority that clearly hasn't come to aid. As he's dying he is out of time and now can't find and note the true answer. No Nobel prize. Nothing to write about. The end of his intellectual journey and life has amounted to nothing. He's still not closer to an answer. Perhaps if he kills her god would come before he dies. Ambiguous scene where dead person comes to life to save her. (Still no actual answer because she could be a miracle or happenstance) The movie isn't trying to answer this question you see. The movie is the questioning itself. And was about to prove yet again his mastery over her fate was bigger then any gods. This was also the point of these others in the boxes. It's an allegory within an allegory within a paradox. As they are all probably different denominations of religions (boxes) non can escape. Het they lead nowhere and non actually get saved from his power over them. Religion=control and he's controlling multiple religious people stuck within their seperate boxes. All hopeless and unable to change whatever fate he has planned out for them. God's aren't coming to their aid. But what he wants more then anything is for one to do so. His desperation is palpable. He's tormenting them yes. But not just out of the pleasure for it. He's trying to push endlessly to prove himself wrong. Wich is the irony of it all. A man who desperately wants to know if god exists, but hasn't the conviction or faith necessary to believe in one. He is also controlled by the exact same things he is trying to put onto any of his victims. Fear of the unknown. Scared to look into the abyss. As there's but one way to know. And that's still open for debate as non has ever returned to tell anyone if they are right or wrong. Hence the experiment. He knows it's a trick but they don't. So he does gain insight into what they believe happened. Because he has no belief himself. And unfortunately that experiment can be done a million times and he'll still be no closer to an actual answer. Because it's subjective. Because no one knows. But he needs to know. Obsessively. The truth. As he's dying he is out of time and now can't find and note the true answer. No Nobel prize. Nothing to write about. The end of his intellectual journey and life has amounted to nothing. He's still not closer to an answer. Perhaps if he kills her god would come before he dies. Ambiguous scene where dead person comes to life to save her. (Still no actual answer because she could be a miracle or happenstance) The movie isn't trying to answer this question you see. The movie is the questioning itself. Wich is that no one alive can know. And those that know can't tell anyone. End of movie.
it also plays on the whole idea of the movie believing or not. if you believe in god and miracles then barnes came back killed him and she escaped. if you don’t believe then she just dies. really good movie enjoyed it
I deliberately watched your video before going to see the film. I know it sounds weird, but I believe this enhances my enjoyment of the film itself. Sounds very much like it’s worth watching more than once. Great review👍🏾
To each their own but going in blind just made it so breathtaking! I had zero expectations and damn was I wowed! I do agree it’s worth a rewatch! So much to unpack
She obviously died and went to heaven at the end because there are no time jumps. They went in right before sunset and she gets out about 2 hours later and it’s broad day light
It was a 2 hour movie but you can clearly tell during the movie that more time was moving faster, specifically after the Morman Elder came looking for them at night in the midst of the storm
I'm a member of the LDS church, and I'm looking forward to seeing this movie. I wonder what Mr. Reed would make of personal experiences that suggest there is something "more" to life. For example, when I was small, I was running down the street to the entrance of a big park, as I'd done hundreds of times before. As I was almost at the gate, a male voice commanded me to HALT, which I immediately did. I remember thinking for a split second if there was some sort of parade happening, but there was no one around who could have given the command. Then a red sedan came speeding out of the gate - it was wide enough for vehicles to access, but for the park to be maintained or when earthworks needed doing, not for the public. If I hadn't stopped, that car would have no doubt not only hit me, but would probably have mulched me completely. I am alive only because of a disembodied voice. Of course, according to me own beliefs, that would have been the Holy Ghost, who is said to give promptings. But even if it wasn't, it's something that I can't otherwise explain.
I have an unpopular opinion: I hate when filmmakers leave ambiguous endings. I came to observe a conclusive story crafted and well executed; I didn't come to formulate my own interpretation of the ending. These types of endings are divisive and almost lazy.
When at the end of the film she escapes from the house, they show the phone which still has no signal even though she is outside. This suggests that she is actually still in the basement and hallucinating.
I wonder how religious/faithful people would interpret the ending of the movie compared to nonreligious people. Paxton herself says she prays not necessarily because she believes but because it’s beautiful. Maybe the real ending doesn’t matter, the way we think about it does. You CHOOSE to believe or not believe-we will never really know until we ourselves die.
I like Life of Pi better. Faith is the better story. And I say this as pretty much an atheist at this point. The guy presented a false dilemma by controlling everything. Choice in the matter was removed from the minute the girls step inside. Therefore, whatever choices they made would have been under duress. The whole "observing a thing changes the behavior of a thing", which would prove he's not God. At least not in the "existing outside of time" sense. Giving the girls false choices only presents the illusion that they're in control by being able to make a decision. Which is not faith, by definition, because faith successfully creates the illusion/fools you into thinking your decisions matter or that you're in control. A mere mortal man is failing to do that because, again, all of this insane shit you're pulling is a false dilemma and she can see through your illusions. In other words, she has no faith in him. I hope for the Good Ending. I think the Bad Ending is, statistically speaking, more likely. And as someone who had a Mormon best friend for 14 years, the women are groomed to be victimized by the church.
I thought the butterfly was just a hallucination from the excessive blood loss. I didn’t even consider that Sister Paxton might be dead, and that the hallucination could be a result of the lack of oxygen.
This was the best explanation!!! I feel like you ive listened to others and i feel as though they rush to the end to explain the butterfly by passing the build up
I’m just loving Hue Grant’s Renaissance. From romantic leading man to quirky character actor who remains at the height of his powers. Some argue that he’s even better now than he’s ever been. His range has certainly surprised me, since he seems capable of doing anything. More power to him.
Former Mormon here. It would not be weird for a Mormon to say, "I'd like to send a sign to my loved ones in the form of a butterfly," but it would be weird for a true believing Mormon to use the word "reincarnate." Mr. Reed, being intimately acquainted with Mormon doctrine (and maybe even with Mormon culture), would have picked up on that. He was also smart enough to know that Paxton's fawning response was actually a smart survival tactic (like when she chose the "disbelief" door), and didn't necessarily indicate stupidity (although I think he was also smart enough to know that it would make her less of a threat to him and his plans, at least in the short-term). I'm not convinced Mr. Reed's goal was to indoctrinate Paxton into being a believer (although he certainly could have been planning to ultimately imprison, torture, "break", and control her). I think what he actually wanted was to watch and see if she would figure it out; why else would he have put the key in her pocket?? He anticipated that she would make and test her hypothesis, and end up in the room with the cages. And from that moment of trapped hopelessness, he could continue to break her spirit even further. Or... Or, wild theory incoming, maybe he expected that she might attack him, and he wanted to test that theory as well. He intentionally placed the letter opener in the living room, just as he intentionally placed the matches within reach, to keep them at the top of the stairs longer during the body switch. Maybe he had a way to listen in on their conversation in the cellar about "magic underwear" being the code word, or he had just figured it out from the way Barnes had used/emphasize the code word earlier, and he used it in that moment deliberately. Maybe because he planned to subdue her physical attack, thus helping break her spirit and increase her sense of helplessness even further. Or maybe, because he's a sicko, and he gets off on being physically attacked before subduing/raping a woman. Or maybe, and this is the most "out there" theory so far, because he was ready to end it all, or at least take a gamble on ending his own twisted, miserable existence. In this theory, he really did predict and control it all, even down to his own possible/likely death. In this case, she didn't really exert free will in stabbing Mr. Reed...which is a pretty dark thought, but definitely in-line with the themes the movie was exploring. (And maybe when he slit Paxton's throat, it was not only his final act of control, but also a mercy, as slowly dying from a gut wound is insanely painful.) Your theory about polygamous wives seems way off, and way less likely than just the fact that he only imprisoned women because they poised less of a physical threat to him, and/or it was a psycho-sexual thing. Lots of serial killer men have only killed women. Mr. Reed cared about control, not arcane polygamy doctrines, and wouldn't have bothered to formally marry the women as wives. The reason he brought up polygamy earlier, was because it tends to be the number one deal breaker/ source of cognitive dissonance in shattering Mormon women's faith (believe me, I'm friends with lots of ex-mormon women!) The biggest issue with the good ending that you didn't elaborate on, was that it was daytime outside. It had been night, and not enough time had elapsed for it to be morning. Also, the fact that it seemed like a pretty unlikely escape feat, given Paxton's mortal wound. And finally, her phone still showed "no signal" after exiting the house. Lots of clues, arguably too many, that she was in fact dying or dead. But then again, there are many, many clues to disprove religious beliefs that people stubbornly, hopefully cling to anyway, so maybe that was also the point.
To me (inactive Mormon woman here), I saw the caged women as his polygamous wives. And to me, being a polygamous wife is a fate worse than death. Reed himself said they all CHOSE to be there, and that sounds awfully familiar to me.
@@tamidawn8383If you were part of a polygamist marriage you weren't part of the LDS church. 🤷 And there ARE women who legitimately choose to live a polygamist lifestyle as batshit as that might appear to most. Who are we to tell other people what they can/can't do? As long as everyone is a contenting adult, it's none of our damn business.
I know it is a movie therefore these are characters etc, but Mr. Reed is a creep(he is a weirdo) I’m not gonna over analyze him further than that because after that was confirmed, everything else is just him doing research to “justify/excuse” his actions/behavior. Barnes going off on him before making a decision between doors was great. Even if the ending is vague, trust that Paxton is the final girl(last victim), coz well she ended him. I was stressed in the movie theatre the whole time. Atmosphere was good. Thought they were gonna go through some sort of maze underground with various puzzles testing how much they know religion(blaming the trailer). So yeah a bit disappointed that wasn’t it lol but still glad I watched it. Great video!
Let me say this… if she was dead after the basement scene then WHY would they show a hallucination butterfly inside a hallucination of being alive? My opinion that's stupid. I think its a mixture of these “two endings”, don't box them in. The butterfly is a hallucination, why? Because she is dying, still alive but dying. The snow outside isn't a hallucination because it was already snowing before that scene. And Sis Barnes not actually being dead is perfect because its symbolic of a miracle and she even killed Reed with wood and nails, symbolic of the crucifixion. I wouldn't call it a “good” ending either. Because either way it is uncertain if she will survive even after escape. She could just die right there on the snow
Because when she has the hallucination of a butterfly in the hallucination, that's the moment the hallucination begins to crack, that she realizes she's hallucinating and it's not real, and perhaps the final disassociative moment before true death.
@ I would agree if it was in her perspective but it wasn't, it was from the audience perspective signifying to us the audience that she was hallucinating the butterfly.
Wow great deep dive, Morph! I adore media like this, the what ifs and 'did this really happen', and exploring what happens when we're dying. There's a lot of great stories out there like that. I highly recommend reading Going Bovine by Libba Bray. It's a great YA novel that explores those themes.
He questioned her if her father was in her life because of the ability to have 'daddy issues' which he knew in some way is related to intimate relationships as he saw the scar of the contraceptive on her arm. A clear sign of being led astray religiously. He knew it was looked down on in their religion so he knew she was not as devout as the other girl and would question a male authority figure/elder
I was quite surprised at how suddenly Paxton became smart. i think Paxton actually died in the basement just because it's the more realistic / belieavable outcome imo. The butterfly and no cell services were what tipped me to this grim interpretation.
This is the reason i love watching your deep dives, and to be very honest I'm sure the second ending is the best one and it's the fact that we still don't have a clear answer till the end, as a religious person myself I've heard so much about resurrections, heaven, hell but I'm still uncertain if anything is even real and even if it is, then how will i actually react when i experience it. But anyways i genuinely love media that makes us question ourselves, our beliefs, our reality instead of giving us a black and white answer.
I saw the elder as being their 'prayer' to be saved. They think their prayers are going to be answered by God but they don't. Maybe that's why the Elder is portrayed in the way he is in the movie?
A mormon friend described the underwear like it's a priest collar or a nun's habit. It shows other people that you've "set apart" your life to God. Except it's on the inside of your clothes. I thought it was a little less silly after that.
That's pretty much correct. It's worn under the clothes because it is not intended to be an outward sign to others, which could become performative, but a reminder to yourself.
Its actually a really good way of putting it. We also have symbols on the garment that remind us of covenants that we make. Its a way to keep God with us in our everyday lives.
I have plenty of issues with Mormonism and I don’t love being too strict on a specific type of modesty ruling, but I appreciate setting your life to god with something that remains with you like that. If it didn’t come with shaming and if I felt freedom to ditch the underwear, I’d be more for it. These things should be because we have an intention for god, not appeasing others demands of us
The figurines remind me of Greek mythology and movies like Clash of the Titans, with Mr. Reed thinking himself as a god because of his control. I didn't even consider that the ending may be in Paxton's mind. I figured it was like many movies that have a happy enough ending. It was reasonable that she could escape the house, and had a phone, so maybe more is possible. Depending on where and how deep she was cut in her gut, it would take a while for her to die, so escaping the house through a window seems reasonable. It was nice to imagine that the butterfly was her friend, it was possibly that a butterfly could still be around a the beginning first snow of winter, so the only question to me was if the butterfly suggested an afterlife or a hope coincidence. SISU is a movie worth checking out if you haven't.
New fan here and ive very much enjoyed your content. I saw The Lighthouse last night, they put it back in the theaters. I came on this morning to see if you had a video to explain what I had just watched and was surprised to see you havent done one, if you take requests that one seems like a good one to go over. Loving each video I watch. Thanks for the content!
I think you can look at the endings as “belief” or “disbelief”. Not necessarily “good” or “true”. By saying one ending is true, you’re putting your own interpretation as the definitive ending. Something the film criticizes is the idea of certainty. I think the film clearly makes a point for the audience to choose what ending they believe or do not believe happened. If you believe Paxton escaped, you have belief. If you don’t think Paxton escaped and died from her wounds, you have disbelief.
In my opinion, it’s not two endings, but one ending. Hallucinations and reality in one beautiful paradox noticed they didn’t say too much about Buddhism or Hinduism, because this would’ve led you to think more than one for one true religion Hinduism is polytheistic. Buddhism is also poly polytheistic and its nature, I also think it’s important to know if the defiant one was the one who chose belief she’s not just smart, but faithful
What I find disturbing is how many hours human beings spend on how to hurt one another. Control is also an illusion. Which person can add one hour to their day or year to their life? I don’t understand why horrible things happen, except we are in a fallen world. If it takes a “Faith” to pick you up and do better in life, so be it. What I find fascinating is how dark intentions can only make the light stronger. The real question here is…did spending your time watching this movie make you feel better, more positive about your existence or not? ❤
Only the ‘true’ ending holds any plausibility. Some will prefer the miraculous ending though, it certainly provides comforting hope that someone at least survived the horror house.
Fantastic review. Covered everything I learned from the movie and delivered a little bit more. I like that you covered the Why Sister Paxton? portion as I also watched the movie with friends and they felt killing Barnes was not the Hollywood they wanted. I gave the movie a 5/5, 4th best of the year.
Thanks for the review and explanation.I saw the first trailer and wanted so bad to see it!! (Finally saw it this afternoon_).LOved the movie ,and especially Hugh Grant in a villainous role!!.
Seeing the way a man just fights so hard to prove his point that their religion is a copy. I had some Mormon Missionaries who wanted me to say that the Book of Mormon was the truth of God. I simply asked what is the basis of your religious beliefs? They told me faith, was the basis. As such I spoke to them, I refuse to agree with any one religion being the one truth, God simply asks us to have Faith. This movie is about Faith, and how strong is your Faith. But also not to disregard our own survival. Indeed, she's behaving like many women, we smile and laugh, when we are uncomfortable around a man, doing our best to placate. Oftentimes, when in a placating behavior, we will indeed make ourselves seem less intelligent with the hope it will help us to be able to find a way to escape. Placating behavior is often misunderstood in media as girls going from being dumb to sharp as a whip because there is little attention paid to the facial and body telegraphing of discomfort and mistrust. Here there is but it seems quick not potentially long enough for many to realize in a first watch through.
I don’t think that the “true” ending seems very likely. First of all, it makes no sense that a butterfly implies her own death; why would she turn into a butterfly on how own hand? Second of all, it is potentially reasonable that Barnes didn’t “resurrect” but just didn’t totally bleed out and got up with one final burst of energy. To me, it is more likely that the butterfly disappearing is a difference between the ideal “religious” ending with a reincarnated Barnes wishing Paxton goodbye and a more “scientific” ending with the butterfly being just a wish for Paxton that doesn’t exist. Imo, either way it seems unlikely that Paxton didn’t survive.
Yay, another “atheists am are be evillllll!!!” Movie. That being said this is a really good movie, I’m just extremely tired of the evil atheist trope. I’ve literally had people ask if i worship the devil, and I’m not even atheist, I’m agnostic, but people don’t know or care for the difference. People don’t even understand what the word “atheist” means. It LITERALLY means “NOT-Theistic”. Like “Asexual” means “NOT-Sexual”.
It was a good movie but I think there was some holes in the plot. Like what was the plan for getting the dead body out of the basement. It was only able to be switched because the door bell range and they drew their attention to the basement door. I also thought he would have put them through more test. I gave it 3.5 out of 5 stars. The acting and jump scares were great but it fell flat towards the end. Thanks for the review!
He clearly had a plan for that. Maybe the doorbell could be set on a timer too in case the person doesn’t ever come, or come at the right time. He has every little detail planned.
I am definitely going to go see this movie. Thanks for the video, I would have missed out seeing it if you hadn't explained it. It has everything I like in a psychological thriller.
My question is, would sister Paxton have known that it was snowing earlier? Recall that it was raining when the girls arrived, but began to snow much later when the elder went out looking for them. The snow on the ground at the end when Paxton escapes, is often interpreted as a concoction in her mind, representing clouds & heaven - and accompanies the theory that she actually died in the basement, and never made it out. But why would she concoct snow, if she had no way of knowing that it had been snowing? It’s possible that I missed something earlier, and maybe she glimpsed snow through the window. Otherwise, it’s more likely that she actually made it out and was experiencing the actual snow that had fallen that last night.
Mad Morph, I am new to your channel. I like it. I'm been watching videos. Before seeing Heretic. I would like to see the movie. Hugh Grant is good as Mr Reed. Chloe and Sophie are good at their roles. This movie sounds like it plays with your mind. Makes you question. Do you believe or not. That makes some people uneasy. This is neat to have someone explain the story. Good video.
The only things that still doesn’t make sense to me after watching this is how did mr. Reed stay alive so long after being stabbed? Since sis. Barnes passed out so fast from less
It's probably the true ending but I also wondered if the very cold temperature slowed down Barnes' death. I have to go back to the scene where Barnes pulls out the plank. Did Paxton see the nails on the plank? Because if not, she wouldn't have imagined it, right? I loooove ending like these where they make me go back and catch all the things I missed. Very well done movie!
Did anyone else think that barnes wasn't totally dead? Only Mr. Reed took her pulse and declared her dead. But a wound that clean could have stuck back together and Barnes could have clung on to life for a while. Then used the last of her strength to kill Mr. Reed. I think this might be part of it, because she hid the board without telling sister Paxton, just as there was the noise of Mr. Reed on the stairs, a direction sister Paxton had already turned.
The same way that he asks them if they believe his wife is still behind the door as a metaphor for God, every time something seems suspicious or inconvenient, he pivots by blaming it on his wife who is a proxy for God. It sort of mocks the introduction of polygamy to Mormonism to excuse Joseph Smith's affair.
My take is it was a reference to him making the caged wives dig and build. The house and the miracle show has developed over time and got worse with every capture, and been refined.
Usually when I like a piece of popular art, I muse about it for a long time and my mind FINALLY gets to something that finds deeper meaning, only to later discover the artist giving some interview about , "Oh [this or that song] was really just about this guy we thought was silly in our personal lives..." and you go, "Geez... I was way off. Here I thought I may have actually contained a message to the audience. It was just some personal allusion that couldn't have meant anything even if a listener tried to put the lyrics together??? It was just about your buddy...? or your dog as a boy (Eg, When James taylor says "Hercules" in his song... it was about his boyhood dog)?" After a lot of art analysis, it makes you wonder why a person is famous. Like, I thought it may have had exceptional meaning. Once in a while, you get artists who actually express things. I just mean that it seems a bit rarer. I did love how thought-provoking the movie was, ESP in regards to the girls' rebuttal of the dry logic of the, "No possible God," "It's all bs," angle (as an Agnostic, I grow weary of hearing hubristic Atheists act like everyone who thinks differently is simply not as smart as they. Frankly, I find smart Christians vastly more intelligent and interesting as a 139 iq nobody who admits to simply not knowing anything for sure about the subject. 99% of them are wasting narrow circular logic trying to explain how science suggests some state of affairs (being that it suggests non-existence) regarding a field which by its definition, science COULD NOT possibly explain - Shortsighted - Ie, if science said something concrete about it, it would no longer fall under the same specific designation and function and there would be no possible, "trial of spirit," etc. - if you know, you know. No trials, no faith, NO ANYTHING is needed, thus the spirit (in the sense the other side claims it) is void. It appears to be some kind of an odd emotional assertion/appeal to me - At least I get WHY religious ppl come from where they are coming from, whether I agree or not... It's like saying something akin to "science says you can;t pen your hand because I refuse to open my hand," and by refusing to open your hand, of course that realkity hardens around you - Bad analogy, I know. But the point is just that the only, "evidence," BY PERFECT DEFINITION (Ie, IF GOD ABSOLUTELY DID EXIST) is the nuanced function alone of the evidence in the personal journey and the doors it opens... Which seems like it makes sense more than the, "There is nothing and no possible further function of the system," rhetoric). But I stay in the middle because i have not seen or been shown anything. and personal evidence appears to me to suggest the pessimistic state as the default in existence (as exemplified in the first paragraph - Even as I looked for meaning, I found I was mistaken once hearing the artists' true intentions). This is the only logical scientific AND spiritual approach one can take given the definition of the subject matter mixed with reality. If you actually read this far (kudos to the readers) and hae me for some reason, I get it. Just take it for the musing that it is. I seek nothing but understanding and honesty and work to have as little ego as possible.
After watching this video, I came to the realization that the 'good ending" was the enactment of what would happen if my prayers actually worked. I pray for a miracle. I pray that Paxton survives. I know it doesn't work but it's what gives me comfort and the movie showed me how it would play out. I may have not found the one true religion but in the end I was praying with Paxton.
I think Paxton was smart in her own way from the start and the gaulible church girl act wa a facade to make people less suspicious of her .In fact, she was more aware of her surroundings since she noticed the body was not in the same position as before . My first guess while i was watching tho was that both of them will die and neither one of them will make it out of the house , which makes the ending in its own way unbelievable for me .
I gave it a 8/ 10 because of the trailer being a bit misleading. I thought it was going to be about a labyrinth Hugh Grant’s character made and will be based on Religion. Almost like a religious escape room lol.
The irony of when we saw this movie in theaters is that we had been hounded by Mormons the morning we were set to see this movie (had already had pre-purchased tickets thus this was just a very funny coincidence). My husband and I discussed the end. I always thought it was end #2, but he was torn between both and our friend was instantly taken with #1. It's funny how that happens.
This movie was D tier. Slow without any burn, unimpressive acting and dialogue, not at all frightening or unsettling. Just a lot of bland reaching. Hugh Grant's character was wasted on this; it would've been far more interesting if the overall execution wasn't so lackluster.
i think the ambiguous ending was also another reference to the “belief” and “disbelief” experiment, but this time the audience are the subjects. Can we suspend our disbelief and accept that Sister Barnes resurrected to save her friend and Mr. Reid didn’t win in the end ? Or is that just too unrealistic for the circumstances, did Sister Paxton die from her injuries?
I was at a screening where we could ask questions to the directors after the film, and someone asked about the feminist lense in the film. They replied there were scenes where Mr. Reed directly calls out the role of the patriarchy in religion, and there direct control over women. However they thought it was too in your face, and felt the dynamics already existed. So, him targeting only women is the indirect nod to this idea (not due to polygamy).
Even at its most, MOST intelligent interpretation, giving it EVERY benefit of EVERY doubt - this movie didn't really have much of _anything_ to say. It ultimately had very little substance whatsoever - just the writers' pretense toward some vague, unearned meaningfulness.
He offered them a choice of doors as an illusion of control. In reality they had more than two choices in how to react in that moment. They also could have waited for someone to come looking for them while staying in the living room. (You should never go to the second location) they could have searched for more weapons to use on him or made weapons or plans for when he would come back to the living room. They never had to follow him down the hall way in the first place. I haven’t seen the movie but just my ideas based on your retelling. But ya the ending was for sure that everyone died. The pie eating lady died. The Barnes girl died, and Paxton and the creepy old man died along with eventually the other caged people. It was alluded to with the Taco Bell conversation. My question I am left with. If multiple women went missing at the same location and other people knew that this was there last known location why were detectives not already clued into the fact that this guy was a major suspect in all these missing women?
The way each Individual sees the ending answers the question of what they personally believe. A thought provoking movie nowadays? Now I have seen everything...
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I hate movies that can’t even tell a story. It’s like they get halfway through their story and they say “I’m not smart enough to finish this, let’s call it interpretive art”
What a waste of time
I want to know who approved these building permits.
don’t need permits if you’re paying good enough and by that i mean hiring a contractor that’s willing to keep it a secret
Best comment
😂😂😂
The writers
You just fire and hire a few contractors so no one does too much work on their own 🤷🏻
That’s how I built the room under my garage 👍🏻
This film is terrifying. Imagine having Mormons inside your home...
Lmao as an ex missionary that made me laugh
Are they all this pretty though?
😂
I hate u😂😂😂
😂
In addition to Paxton admitting to her disbelief in prayer, she also explained she wished to reincarnate as a butterfly. Reincarnation is against Mormon beliefs, so her offering to choose the door of disbelief was on-brand as she's demonstrated a few times that she isn't a genuine believer
Interesting, not an oversight since both the actresses are former Mormons! But I don't know if i'd say Paxton isn't genuine, I think she's a true survivor and the disbelief door was trying to keep Mr Reeeeeed happy, the fact she prayed in the face of the final danger in the basement and until her passing, would make me think she was actually a true believer. and IF you think the first ending is true, then she is a believer AND a chosen enough for a miracle to happen to save her. But it's up for debate!
Facts. When she said the word reincarnate I knew then she wasn’t a “true believer” due to the fact that in Christianity there is no reincarnation.
I agree that the heretic in Heretic was Paxton.
But also, there is also this thing among some Mormons where they say they will come back and give a sign. It's not reincarnation. It may be LIKE reincarnation.
It's not an official Mormon doctrine by any means, but it's a thing I heard growing up LDS here and there. There's a song called I'll Build You A Rainbow that was popular in the 80s with Mormons, where a boy's dead mother presents herself as a rainbow so he knows she is still present.
But with that said, Paxton is still the Heretic in the movie.
I havent seen the movie, but that's what i thought watching this video.
As a former Mormon, that line did strike me as unfamiliar when it came to what we were told and taught to repeat throughout life. Reincarnation is not learned and that small foreshadowing of her still finding her own personal set of beliefs was a interesting turn.
The moment the doors are locked and you can't leave, its time to start swinging and throwing items, smash windows and go nuts.
Turn into a psychotic serial killer
You didn't mention the phone at the end when she climbs out of the window. It still said no service when she drops it outside, while they had service outside before going into the home. I think she never left and she's hallucinating/dying.
So true, I agree with you, though I wonder if she was hallucinating, why wouldn’t she hallucinate having cell signal?
I noticed that too about the phone...no service when she was outside
She's also still bleeding to death. I don't think she patched herself up or anything and she doesn't find help. She can just suddenly move around like normal again.
My argument for that theory would be that, sometimes, a phone's signal will not reconnect immediately after leaving a location that would disrupt its connection. It could take either a few seconds or a couple of minutes for it to even get a bar of signal (that's also depending on the location, service, and phone model, of course), and the camera at the end focuses on the phone for about 8 seconds before she picks it up, and I would say that her phone does get at least a bar in the very next shot. But then again, that's just my interpretation.
I think she left. But she died.
Not to mention the butterfly at the end again but in addition to the butterfly disappearing, it got deadly quiet suddenly. No outside noise anymore and she acknowledges it. Credits.
This seems to me that she died in that moment. Meaning she went through all of that just to die post escape. She did escape. And I think in the moment of adrenaline crash allowed her body to give up and she died once she knew she was free.
Tragic but beautiful.
See I thought she died too, but when the Mr. Reed crawled up to her, I think that’s when it happened. I think she imagined Sister Barnes saving her and her escaping, but it didn’t actually happen. i think that was her reincarnating as that butterfly
I agree that she made it outside before she died. The snow is often referenced as her own mental pre-death concoction representing heaven and clouds, but I don’t think she’d have known that it had begun to snow earlier. The snow didn’t start to fall until after they were already trapped in the house, so not sure she’d have known about it (remember it was only raining when they’d arrived). I may be missing something - maybe there was a point where she saw the snow outside through a window or something - otherwise the snow would not have been a likely thing for her to concoct, and therefore she was seeing it for real.
The ending is like the "belief" and "disbelief" doors leading to the very same room
Yup, none of it is real 😂🎉
At the end death will reign supreme
For some reason I think the doors would sound better if labelled ‘beliver’ and ‘non-believer’
Believe or disbelieve, you end up in the same place. In a way that could be true if religion is real or it's not.
@@mostmelon8243 SO no salvation for neither of the ways
I think that the good ending is likely for the reason that the even bigger reveal than Mr. Reed not believing in religion is that Paxton isn't a literalist. Her explanation of the prayer experiment aligns with the theme of absolute certainty in either direction being absurd, and that she is making the conscious choice to believe. The butterfly appears and disappears to show that she is aware it isn't there, but chooses to see it anyway as a representative of Barnes.
Absurdism wins
I really like this. I could also see the butterfly disappearing because Paxton is being revived. The exit from the house is her last moments of consciousness, and her brain starts to make a beautiful picture. but her phone is connecting and as soon as it gets signal, which they had outside the house, it will connect and the messages they left and texts they sent will go through, alerting the elders to where they are. You could see the disappearance of the butterfly as her brain ceasing to paint this insane picture as she dies, the silence as her brain coming back on line, and the credits rolling not as her death but as her being yanked back into reality. Just a take.
I thought Mr Reed is a sexual predator and serial killer and all of the religious stuff is just his way of internally justifying his sexual deviance. just before Barnes stabs him, he’s creeping up behind her, talking about her underwear, and telling her that the one true religion is control; of course because he has all the control that makes him God in this religion, and that matches the pattern of serial killers who are motivated by sexual deviance, but who justify it to themselves by casting themselves as much smarter and more clever than their victims, who are almost subhuman in the killer’s eyes, and are therefore deserving, again in the killers eyes, of abuse and murder at the hands of the killer. I think prophet ate the pie because it was her way to escape what had been years of torture and abuse.
He also starts playing with her hair in that scene right before the code word, it's like the moment he thinks he has "won", the mask is slipping and he is letting his true motivation show. It's very subtle but it's there.
I don't know, I think there would have been more hints before if that was the case. He isn't very subtle but it does fit in his "control" I just think he's honestly more focused on wanting to be right. And the many mentions on the undergarments is because they are a big part of mormons/TLDS, seeings undergarments out of religion is one of the worst things you could do and thus they arent very known about. Also not all mormons wear them and sneak past the rules
More common than not, even if they aren't religous they're programmed to be hypocrites.
They all died, her leaving the house was her soul being free from her body. Endings are more beautiful than beginnings because everything gets slowly revealed to you, all your suffering and worry are vanquished and there is nothing but peace. What your meant to do on earth is your business but when it’s your time to go whether your ready or not embrace it.
There was also the subtle moment when Mr Reed corrects the sisters over a quote that they started talking about, informing them that the quote actually belonged to Voltaire, a known anti papal conspirator, atheist, and often credited with being the brain child of the French Revolution. It gives the audience the inclination that Mr Reed's "quest" for the one true religion ended up leading him down a path of apostasy etc That is to say, for as much as he was clued up in all the theology of world religions, he was equally clued up with the atheistic arguments too
This one ending is a paradox of life. Creating a lot of mystery and uncertainty. The one certain thing is Mr. Reid is an asshole for torturing sister missionaries.
that last part...lol. Hes a real creep and weirdo.
I like to think the "good ending" is what actually happened. I like to think that Sister Barnes coming back to life was a "true miracle", a kind of resurrection to show the faith the two girls had, and the love of Sister Barnes to come back and save her friend. Mr. Reed's act was a magic trick, like stated earlier in the film, but what the Sisters had was the "real deal". At least, that's what I like to think. Even if, like religion, I only believe it's happening to give myself some kind of comfort about Sister Paxton surviving.
I wonder if there is even some kind of meta meaning in that, we want to believe it because we WANT her to survive, it comforts us. But as Mr Reed says "even though all the evidence points to the contrary". Cos I know on paper, TRUE ENDING makes sense. But I REALLY want to believe the good one.
My take on the ending is similar to the film makers take. We choose what we believe and that makes it our reality. That's why paxton brings up the prayer experiment. It doesnt matter that "it doesnt work" what matters is how it makes you feel and that colors your view of the world. Notice how mr. Reed was very knowledgeable but he wasnt very happy/satisfied. Paxton looked like she found peace. We choose what we see at the end
Not really. Happiness is just a temporal thing. The main themes of the movie (according to me at least) is obsession, knowledge and faith. A triune problem (pun intended). You see all of the characters are deeply flawed when it comes to their consistency, wich comes through in their dialogue.
Non really holds up to scrutiny when it comes to their beliefs. The movie shows as much.
There's so much to unpack I really have to rewatch the entire movie again (oh goody, and actual psychological thriller/horror that works and has levels) but in essence I'm going to stick to the main antagonist.
He's clearly an intellectual and has an obsessive need to know what is true. He hasn't been able to figure out if any of the religions are true at all but has this incessant need to keep testing for it. Because it's a question without an answer. It's an itch he can't scratch. He's obsessed with finding out the truth. But there's really only one way to get to that truth. An inevitability. The end of the road. Game over. Death. Only in death can he find out wich one was the right religion (as can we all) so the question remains unanswered. And this bothers him. His quest remains unfulfilled. And yet there's a need to find an answer to a question that has non. Obsession takes over. He wants to know the right path to take. But doesn't.
After years and years of studying in depth the thing he needs what he really lacks is faith. He can't commit to anything, because his mind won't let him. What if it's the wrong one. How can we know wich is the right one?. And so the spiral continues and he lost his mind in the process. But can't let go because he needs to know before it's too late. He's essentially a man ruled by fear.
He needs certainty and no religion actually gives certainty. Even in his misguided conclusion he is factually inconsequent to himself. As he remains searching endlessly repeatedly trying to push the envelope to no avail. Yet he hasn't given up, and won't. In that respect the girls have him dead to rights. Everyone needs something to believe in. Even if its not going to lead to an actual answer everyone is still searching. So is mister Reed until his last breath. He's hoping to solve the riddle that has taken his sanity and is now effectively ruling his life. He can't let it go. Because he has to know the unknowable about the unknown. Lest he die before solving the equation.
When in the last scene he sobs when she's praying he's actually still hoping for a miracle. Because deep down he really does want something to happen, anything. To find a reason to believe in something or see a sign of gods existence. When that doesn't happen yet again, he get's frustrated and angry at yet another flawed attempt to appeal to this higher authority that clearly hasn't come to aid.
As he's dying he is out of time and now can't find and note the true answer. No Nobel prize. Nothing to write about. The end of his intellectual journey and life has amounted to nothing. He's still not closer to an answer. Perhaps if he kills her god would come before he dies. Ambiguous scene where dead person comes to life to save her. (Still no actual answer because she could be a miracle or happenstance) The movie isn't trying to answer this question you see. The movie is the questioning itself.
And was about to prove yet again his mastery over her fate was bigger then any gods. This was also the point of these others in the boxes. It's an allegory within an allegory within a paradox. As they are all probably different denominations of religions (boxes) non can escape. Het they lead nowhere and non actually get saved from his power over them. Religion=control and he's controlling multiple religious people stuck within their seperate boxes. All hopeless and unable to change whatever fate he has planned out for them. God's aren't coming to their aid. But what he wants more then anything is for one to do so. His desperation is palpable. He's tormenting them yes. But not just out of the pleasure for it. He's trying to push endlessly to prove himself wrong. Wich is the irony of it all. A man who desperately wants to know if god exists, but hasn't the conviction or faith necessary to believe in one. He is also controlled by the exact same things he is trying to put onto any of his victims. Fear of the unknown. Scared to look into the abyss. As there's but one way to know. And that's still open for debate as non has ever returned to tell anyone if they are right or wrong. Hence the experiment. He knows it's a trick but they don't. So he does gain insight into what they believe happened. Because he has no belief himself. And unfortunately that experiment can be done a million times and he'll still be no closer to an actual answer. Because it's subjective. Because no one knows. But he needs to know. Obsessively. The truth. As he's dying he is out of time and now can't find and note the true answer. No Nobel prize. Nothing to write about. The end of his intellectual journey and life has amounted to nothing. He's still not closer to an answer. Perhaps if he kills her god would come before he dies. Ambiguous scene where dead person comes to life to save her. (Still no actual answer because she could be a miracle or happenstance) The movie isn't trying to answer this question you see. The movie is the questioning itself.
Wich is that no one alive can know. And those that know can't tell anyone. End of movie.
This video is the one true analysis. The, ‘Wendy’s’ of ending explained videos, you might say.
Paxton died. The ending is a hallucination. Great thought provoking movie. 8.9/10
it also plays on the whole idea of the movie believing or not. if you believe in god and miracles then barnes came back killed him and she escaped. if you don’t believe then she just dies. really good movie enjoyed it
@@chamoisauce7491it's not necessarily a miracle though, it happens sometimes that people who are presumably dead wake up again
@@fehyndana7725Not usually after having their throat cut and their arm mutilated.
honestly if its left up to the audience to figure out then its terrible story telling.
@ not it’s not. not when that’s the intention such a crybaby.
I deliberately watched your video before going to see the film. I know it sounds weird, but I believe this enhances my enjoyment of the film itself. Sounds very much like it’s worth watching more than once. Great review👍🏾
Right! I watched it
last night🌃Only to
be watching it over again!😩
To each their own but going in blind just made it so breathtaking! I had zero expectations and damn was I wowed! I do agree it’s worth a rewatch! So much to unpack
Going from an Oompa Loompa to this is devious work
Plot Twist: Reid is actually Joseph Smith back from the dead to test them.
Lolz he wasn't marrying them
She obviously died and went to heaven at the end because there are no time jumps. They went in right before sunset and she gets out about 2 hours later and it’s broad day light
It was a 2 hour movie but you can clearly tell during the movie that more time was moving faster, specifically after the Morman Elder came looking for them at night in the midst of the storm
I'm a member of the LDS church, and I'm looking forward to seeing this movie. I wonder what Mr. Reed would make of personal experiences that suggest there is something "more" to life.
For example, when I was small, I was running down the street to the entrance of a big park, as I'd done hundreds of times before. As I was almost at the gate, a male voice commanded me to HALT, which I immediately did. I remember thinking for a split second if there was some sort of parade happening, but there was no one around who could have given the command. Then a red sedan came speeding out of the gate - it was wide enough for vehicles to access, but for the park to be maintained or when earthworks needed doing, not for the public. If I hadn't stopped, that car would have no doubt not only hit me, but would probably have mulched me completely. I am alive only because of a disembodied voice.
Of course, according to me own beliefs, that would have been the Holy Ghost, who is said to give promptings. But even if it wasn't, it's something that I can't otherwise explain.
Loving the debate and really opened my eyes! Yes of course, the Prophets are Mr. Reed's wives!! Now I understand the Hubby mug!
I would’ve just assumed ‘the prophet’ just ate a pie laced with a drug that slows or temp stops your heart. Movies tells us this drug exists
I have an unpopular opinion: I hate when filmmakers leave ambiguous endings. I came to observe a conclusive story crafted and well executed; I didn't come to formulate my own interpretation of the ending. These types of endings are divisive and almost lazy.
So glad I’m not alone on this! 😂 I want a damn ending not work 😂😂
I respect this opinion, but don't go watch a psychological horror then, these are KNOWN for doing this lol
@RubyIsoTek honestly, French films too
When at the end of the film she escapes from the house, they show the phone which still has no signal even though she is outside. This suggests that she is actually still in the basement and hallucinating.
I wonder how religious/faithful people would interpret the ending of the movie compared to nonreligious people. Paxton herself says she prays not necessarily because she believes but because it’s beautiful. Maybe the real ending doesn’t matter, the way we think about it does. You CHOOSE to believe or not believe-we will never really know until we ourselves die.
I like Life of Pi better. Faith is the better story. And I say this as pretty much an atheist at this point.
The guy presented a false dilemma by controlling everything. Choice in the matter was removed from the minute the girls step inside. Therefore, whatever choices they made would have been under duress. The whole "observing a thing changes the behavior of a thing", which would prove he's not God. At least not in the "existing outside of time" sense. Giving the girls false choices only presents the illusion that they're in control by being able to make a decision. Which is not faith, by definition, because faith successfully creates the illusion/fools you into thinking your decisions matter or that you're in control. A mere mortal man is failing to do that because, again, all of this insane shit you're pulling is a false dilemma and she can see through your illusions. In other words, she has no faith in him.
I hope for the Good Ending. I think the Bad Ending is, statistically speaking, more likely. And as someone who had a Mormon best friend for 14 years, the women are groomed to be victimized by the church.
I thought the butterfly was just a hallucination from the excessive blood loss. I didn’t even consider that Sister Paxton might be dead, and that the hallucination could be a result of the lack of oxygen.
Excessive blood loss results in death it’s where she passed is the question
This was the best explanation!!! I feel like you ive listened to others and i feel as though they rush to the end to explain the butterfly by passing the build up
I’m just loving Hue Grant’s Renaissance. From romantic leading man to quirky character actor who remains at the height of his powers. Some argue that he’s even better now than he’s ever been. His range has certainly surprised me, since he seems capable of doing anything. More power to him.
Former Mormon here. It would not be weird for a Mormon to say, "I'd like to send a sign to my loved ones in the form of a butterfly," but it would be weird for a true believing Mormon to use the word "reincarnate." Mr. Reed, being intimately acquainted with Mormon doctrine (and maybe even with Mormon culture), would have picked up on that. He was also smart enough to know that Paxton's fawning response was actually a smart survival tactic (like when she chose the "disbelief" door), and didn't necessarily indicate stupidity (although I think he was also smart enough to know that it would make her less of a threat to him and his plans, at least in the short-term).
I'm not convinced Mr. Reed's goal was to indoctrinate Paxton into being a believer (although he certainly could have been planning to ultimately imprison, torture, "break", and control her). I think what he actually wanted was to watch and see if she would figure it out; why else would he have put the key in her pocket?? He anticipated that she would make and test her hypothesis, and end up in the room with the cages. And from that moment of trapped hopelessness, he could continue to break her spirit even further. Or...
Or, wild theory incoming, maybe he expected that she might attack him, and he wanted to test that theory as well. He intentionally placed the letter opener in the living room, just as he intentionally placed the matches within reach, to keep them at the top of the stairs longer during the body switch. Maybe he had a way to listen in on their conversation in the cellar about "magic underwear" being the code word, or he had just figured it out from the way Barnes had used/emphasize the code word earlier, and he used it in that moment deliberately. Maybe because he planned to subdue her physical attack, thus helping break her spirit and increase her sense of helplessness even further. Or maybe, because he's a sicko, and he gets off on being physically attacked before subduing/raping a woman.
Or maybe, and this is the most "out there" theory so far, because he was ready to end it all, or at least take a gamble on ending his own twisted, miserable existence. In this theory, he really did predict and control it all, even down to his own possible/likely death. In this case, she didn't really exert free will in stabbing Mr. Reed...which is a pretty dark thought, but definitely in-line with the themes the movie was exploring.
(And maybe when he slit Paxton's throat, it was not only his final act of control, but also a mercy, as slowly dying from a gut wound is insanely painful.)
Your theory about polygamous wives seems way off, and way less likely than just the fact that he only imprisoned women because they poised less of a physical threat to him, and/or it was a psycho-sexual thing. Lots of serial killer men have only killed women. Mr. Reed cared about control, not arcane polygamy doctrines, and wouldn't have bothered to formally marry the women as wives. The reason he brought up polygamy earlier, was because it tends to be the number one deal breaker/ source of cognitive dissonance in shattering Mormon women's faith (believe me, I'm friends with lots of ex-mormon women!)
The biggest issue with the good ending that you didn't elaborate on, was that it was daytime outside. It had been night, and not enough time had elapsed for it to be morning. Also, the fact that it seemed like a pretty unlikely escape feat, given Paxton's mortal wound. And finally, her phone still showed "no signal" after exiting the house. Lots of clues, arguably too many, that she was in fact dying or dead. But then again, there are many, many clues to disprove religious beliefs that people stubbornly, hopefully cling to anyway, so maybe that was also the point.
To me (inactive Mormon woman here), I saw the caged women as his polygamous wives. And to me, being a polygamous wife is a fate worse than death. Reed himself said they all CHOSE to be there, and that sounds awfully familiar to me.
@@tamidawn8383If you were part of a polygamist marriage you weren't part of the LDS church. 🤷 And there ARE women who legitimately choose to live a polygamist lifestyle as batshit as that might appear to most. Who are we to tell other people what they can/can't do? As long as everyone is a contenting adult, it's none of our damn business.
I know it is a movie therefore these are characters etc, but Mr. Reed is a creep(he is a weirdo) I’m not gonna over analyze him further than that because after that was confirmed, everything else is just him doing research to “justify/excuse” his actions/behavior. Barnes going off on him before making a decision between doors was great. Even if the ending is vague, trust that Paxton is the final girl(last victim), coz well she ended him.
I was stressed in the movie theatre the whole time. Atmosphere was good. Thought they were gonna go through some sort of maze underground with various puzzles testing how much they know religion(blaming the trailer). So yeah a bit disappointed that wasn’t it lol but still glad I watched it.
Great video!
So this is like , the life of Pi , you can believe or not believe. I choose one. =) I chose the same in Life of Pi. The tiger was real. Paxton lived.
your last point about the wives is spot on, he also has a mug and thermos with "hubby" written on it
Let me say this… if she was dead after the basement scene then WHY would they show a hallucination butterfly inside a hallucination of being alive? My opinion that's stupid.
I think its a mixture of these “two endings”, don't box them in.
The butterfly is a hallucination, why? Because she is dying, still alive but dying. The snow outside isn't a hallucination because it was already snowing before that scene. And Sis Barnes not actually being dead is perfect because its symbolic of a miracle and she even killed Reed with wood and nails, symbolic of the crucifixion.
I wouldn't call it a “good” ending either. Because either way it is uncertain if she will survive even after escape. She could just die right there on the snow
Because when she has the hallucination of a butterfly in the hallucination, that's the moment the hallucination begins to crack, that she realizes she's hallucinating and it's not real, and perhaps the final disassociative moment before true death.
@ I would agree if it was in her perspective but it wasn't, it was from the audience perspective signifying to us the audience that she was hallucinating the butterfly.
One of the best reviews of this movie I've seen
Wow great deep dive, Morph! I adore media like this, the what ifs and 'did this really happen', and exploring what happens when we're dying. There's a lot of great stories out there like that. I highly recommend reading Going Bovine by Libba Bray. It's a great YA novel that explores those themes.
Officially joined your club! Your voice is so soothing. Looking forward to future deep dives and to watch your previous work.
Welcome welcome! Thank you!
yes, his voice has so much character.
I think she did get away but the butterfly itself was the hallucinations
He questioned her if her father was in her life because of the ability to have 'daddy issues' which he knew in some way is related to intimate relationships as he saw the scar of the contraceptive on her arm. A clear sign of being led astray religiously. He knew it was looked down on in their religion so he knew she was not as devout as the other girl and would question a male authority figure/elder
I was quite surprised at how suddenly Paxton became smart. i think Paxton actually died in the basement just because it's the more realistic / belieavable outcome imo. The butterfly and no cell services were what tipped me to this grim interpretation.
This is the reason i love watching your deep dives, and to be very honest I'm sure the second ending is the best one and it's the fact that we still don't have a clear answer till the end, as a religious person myself I've heard so much about resurrections, heaven, hell but I'm still uncertain if anything is even real and even if it is, then how will i actually react when i experience it. But anyways i genuinely love media that makes us question ourselves, our beliefs, our reality instead of giving us a black and white answer.
I saw the elder as being their 'prayer' to be saved. They think their prayers are going to be answered by God but they don't. Maybe that's why the Elder is portrayed in the way he is in the movie?
Movie is scary because it is true.
A mormon friend described the underwear like it's a priest collar or a nun's habit. It shows other people that you've "set apart" your life to God. Except it's on the inside of your clothes. I thought it was a little less silly after that.
That's pretty much correct. It's worn under the clothes because it is not intended to be an outward sign to others, which could become performative, but a reminder to yourself.
Its actually a really good way of putting it. We also have symbols on the garment that remind us of covenants that we make. Its a way to keep God with us in our everyday lives.
I have plenty of issues with Mormonism and I don’t love being too strict on a specific type of modesty ruling, but I appreciate setting your life to god with something that remains with you like that. If it didn’t come with shaming and if I felt freedom to ditch the underwear, I’d be more for it. These things should be because we have an intention for god, not appeasing others demands of us
As an ex Mormon, I used to feel this way until I realized that it was more of a signal of control.
That's a great way to explain it. I'm mormon though not active.
The figurines remind me of Greek mythology and movies like Clash of the Titans, with Mr. Reed thinking himself as a god because of his control.
I didn't even consider that the ending may be in Paxton's mind. I figured it was like many movies that have a happy enough ending. It was reasonable that she could escape the house, and had a phone, so maybe more is possible. Depending on where and how deep she was cut in her gut, it would take a while for her to die, so escaping the house through a window seems reasonable. It was nice to imagine that the butterfly was her friend, it was possibly that a butterfly could still be around a the beginning first snow of winter, so the only question to me was if the butterfly suggested an afterlife or a hope coincidence.
SISU is a movie worth checking out if you haven't.
Perfect timing. Watched it yesterday
My GOD You’re good at analysis!.... Subbed
New fan here and ive very much enjoyed your content. I saw The Lighthouse last night, they put it back in the theaters. I came on this morning to see if you had a video to explain what I had just watched and was surprised to see you havent done one, if you take requests that one seems like a good one to go over. Loving each video I watch. Thanks for the content!
Welcome! The channel is still quite new so lots more to come
I think you can look at the endings as “belief” or “disbelief”. Not necessarily “good” or “true”. By saying one ending is true, you’re putting your own interpretation as the definitive ending. Something the film criticizes is the idea of certainty. I think the film clearly makes a point for the audience to choose what ending they believe or do not believe happened. If you believe Paxton escaped, you have belief. If you don’t think Paxton escaped and died from her wounds, you have disbelief.
In my opinion, it’s not two endings, but one ending. Hallucinations and reality in one beautiful paradox noticed they didn’t say too much about Buddhism or Hinduism, because this would’ve led you to think more than one for one true religion Hinduism is polytheistic. Buddhism is also poly polytheistic and its nature, I also think it’s important to know if the defiant one was the one who chose belief she’s not just smart, but faithful
What I find disturbing is how many hours human beings spend on how to hurt one another. Control is also an illusion. Which person can add one hour to their day or year to their life? I don’t understand why horrible things happen, except we are in a fallen world. If it takes a “Faith” to pick you up and do better in life, so be it. What I find fascinating is how dark intentions can only make the light stronger. The real question here is…did spending your time watching this movie make you feel better, more positive about your existence or not? ❤
It takes a strong person to break the cycle of darkness, I have faith it can be done.
John Carter 2012 - I LOVE IT!!!
Only the ‘true’ ending holds any plausibility. Some will prefer the miraculous ending though, it certainly provides comforting hope that someone at least survived the horror house.
Fantastic review. Covered everything I learned from the movie and delivered a little bit more. I like that you covered the Why Sister Paxton? portion as I also watched the movie with friends and they felt killing Barnes was not the Hollywood they wanted. I gave the movie a 5/5, 4th best of the year.
Thanks for the review and explanation.I saw the first trailer and wanted so bad to see it!! (Finally saw it this afternoon_).LOved the movie ,and especially Hugh Grant in a villainous role!!.
Seeing the way a man just fights so hard to prove his point that their religion is a copy.
I had some Mormon Missionaries who wanted me to say that the Book of Mormon was the truth of God.
I simply asked what is the basis of your religious beliefs? They told me faith, was the basis.
As such I spoke to them, I refuse to agree with any one religion being the one truth, God simply asks us to have Faith.
This movie is about Faith, and how strong is your Faith. But also not to disregard our own survival.
Indeed, she's behaving like many women, we smile and laugh, when we are uncomfortable around a man, doing our best to placate. Oftentimes, when in a placating behavior, we will indeed make ourselves seem less intelligent with the hope it will help us to be able to find a way to escape. Placating behavior is often misunderstood in media as girls going from being dumb to sharp as a whip because there is little attention paid to the facial and body telegraphing of discomfort and mistrust. Here there is but it seems quick not potentially long enough for many to realize in a first watch through.
Amazing review, beautifully explained and thought through… and the voice 🖤 Amazing. Thank you!!
Certainty is not the enemy. It is possible to find and know truth.
definitely subscribed after this video 😂🔥🔥🔥🔥 you broke this down movie down.
I don’t think that the “true” ending seems very likely. First of all, it makes no sense that a butterfly implies her own death; why would she turn into a butterfly on how own hand? Second of all, it is potentially reasonable that Barnes didn’t “resurrect” but just didn’t totally bleed out and got up with one final burst of energy.
To me, it is more likely that the butterfly disappearing is a difference between the ideal “religious” ending with a reincarnated Barnes wishing Paxton goodbye and a more “scientific” ending with the butterfly being just a wish for Paxton that doesn’t exist. Imo, either way it seems unlikely that Paxton didn’t survive.
Just reminds me of a 2008 French film called Martyrs, really good horror film.
Yay, another “atheists am are be evillllll!!!”
Movie.
That being said this is a really good movie, I’m just extremely tired of the evil atheist trope.
I’ve literally had people ask if i worship the devil, and I’m not even atheist, I’m agnostic, but people don’t know or care for the difference.
People don’t even understand what the word “atheist” means.
It LITERALLY means “NOT-Theistic”.
Like “Asexual” means “NOT-Sexual”.
Good video analysis, I’ve liked & subbed. Look forward to seeing more of your vids. 👍. It was ending 2 imo.
It was a good movie but I think there was some holes in the plot. Like what was the plan for getting the dead body out of the basement. It was only able to be switched because the door bell range and they drew their attention to the basement door. I also thought he would have put them through more test. I gave it 3.5 out of 5 stars. The acting and jump scares were great but it fell flat towards the end. Thanks for the review!
He clearly had a plan for that. Maybe the doorbell could be set on a timer too in case the person doesn’t ever come, or come at the right time. He has every little detail planned.
The cult brainwashing worked, that is why the lady even did what she did, but she had a breakthrough and told them it was not real.
I am definitely going to go see this movie. Thanks for the video, I would have missed out seeing it if you hadn't explained it. It has everything I like in a psychological thriller.
My question is, would sister Paxton have known that it was snowing earlier? Recall that it was raining when the girls arrived, but began to snow much later when the elder went out looking for them.
The snow on the ground at the end when Paxton escapes, is often interpreted as a concoction in her mind, representing clouds & heaven - and accompanies the theory that she actually died in the basement, and never made it out. But why would she concoct snow, if she had no way of knowing that it had been snowing?
It’s possible that I missed something earlier, and maybe she glimpsed snow through the window. Otherwise, it’s more likely that she actually made it out and was experiencing the actual snow that had fallen that last night.
Nioce moive moite. Ty for the summary.
Mad Morph, I am new to your channel. I like it. I'm been watching videos. Before seeing Heretic. I would like to see the movie. Hugh Grant is good as Mr Reed. Chloe and Sophie are good at their roles. This movie sounds like it plays with your mind. Makes you question. Do you believe or not. That makes some people uneasy. This is neat to have someone explain the story. Good video.
I was hoping you would cover this!
The only things that still doesn’t make sense to me after watching this is how did mr. Reed stay alive so long after being stabbed? Since sis. Barnes passed out so fast from less
I thought the movie was good. Very different kind of movie. I thought both girls died.
"True Ending" my behind.
Hugh Grant is a fantastic actor. Giving horror a try. Playing Mr Reed. Sounds like he does a good job at it. Plan to see the movie soon.
It's probably the true ending but I also wondered if the very cold temperature slowed down Barnes' death. I have to go back to the scene where Barnes pulls out the plank. Did Paxton see the nails on the plank? Because if not, she wouldn't have imagined it, right?
I loooove ending like these where they make me go back and catch all the things I missed.
Very well done movie!
Crazy thing is that this movie makes you a question everything including religion and religious beliefs. Which makes you a Heretic.
Did anyone else think that barnes wasn't totally dead? Only Mr. Reed took her pulse and declared her dead. But a wound that clean could have stuck back together and Barnes could have clung on to life for a while. Then used the last of her strength to kill Mr. Reed. I think this might be part of it, because she hid the board without telling sister Paxton, just as there was the noise of Mr. Reed on the stairs, a direction sister Paxton had already turned.
So why did Mr Reed feel the need to state his wife built or designed the house? I cannot remember exactly what he said but it seemed strange.
The same way that he asks them if they believe his wife is still behind the door as a metaphor for God, every time something seems suspicious or inconvenient, he pivots by blaming it on his wife who is a proxy for God. It sort of mocks the introduction of polygamy to Mormonism to excuse Joseph Smith's affair.
My take is it was a reference to him making the caged wives dig and build.
The house and the miracle show has developed over time and got worse with every capture, and been refined.
Hugh Grant is getting better and better as he grows older - Brilliant actor 👍
Great stuff Morph! SixMacs here, great to see you making movie content.
Hey Six! Thanks! And you too I see! That's such a fun coincidence after so many years
I didn't know MadMorph has a movie related channel!
Usually when I like a piece of popular art, I muse about it for a long time and my mind FINALLY gets to something that finds deeper meaning, only to later discover the artist giving some interview about , "Oh [this or that song] was really just about this guy we thought was silly in our personal lives..." and you go, "Geez... I was way off. Here I thought I may have actually contained a message to the audience. It was just some personal allusion that couldn't have meant anything even if a listener tried to put the lyrics together??? It was just about your buddy...? or your dog as a boy (Eg, When James taylor says "Hercules" in his song... it was about his boyhood dog)?"
After a lot of art analysis, it makes you wonder why a person is famous. Like, I thought it may have had exceptional meaning.
Once in a while, you get artists who actually express things. I just mean that it seems a bit rarer.
I did love how thought-provoking the movie was, ESP in regards to the girls' rebuttal of the dry logic of the, "No possible God," "It's all bs," angle (as an Agnostic, I grow weary of hearing hubristic Atheists act like everyone who thinks differently is simply not as smart as they. Frankly, I find smart Christians vastly more intelligent and interesting as a 139 iq nobody who admits to simply not knowing anything for sure about the subject.
99% of them are wasting narrow circular logic trying to explain how science suggests some state of affairs (being that it suggests non-existence) regarding a field which by its definition, science COULD NOT possibly explain - Shortsighted - Ie, if science said something concrete about it, it would no longer fall under the same specific designation and function and there would be no possible, "trial of spirit," etc. - if you know, you know. No trials, no faith, NO ANYTHING is needed, thus the spirit (in the sense the other side claims it) is void. It appears to be some kind of an odd emotional assertion/appeal to me - At least I get WHY religious ppl come from where they are coming from, whether I agree or not... It's like saying something akin to "science says you can;t pen your hand because I refuse to open my hand," and by refusing to open your hand, of course that realkity hardens around you - Bad analogy, I know. But the point is just that the only, "evidence," BY PERFECT DEFINITION (Ie, IF GOD ABSOLUTELY DID EXIST) is the nuanced function alone of the evidence in the personal journey and the doors it opens... Which seems like it makes sense more than the, "There is nothing and no possible further function of the system," rhetoric).
But I stay in the middle because i have not seen or been shown anything. and personal evidence appears to me to suggest the pessimistic state as the default in existence (as exemplified in the first paragraph - Even as I looked for meaning, I found I was mistaken once hearing the artists' true intentions). This is the only logical scientific AND spiritual approach one can take given the definition of the subject matter mixed with reality.
If you actually read this far (kudos to the readers) and hae me for some reason, I get it. Just take it for the musing that it is. I seek nothing but understanding and honesty and work to have as little ego as possible.
After watching this video, I came to the realization that the 'good ending" was the enactment of what would happen if my prayers actually worked. I pray for a miracle. I pray that Paxton survives. I know it doesn't work but it's what gives me comfort and the movie showed me how it would play out. I may have not found the one true religion but in the end I was praying with Paxton.
I think Paxton was smart in her own way from the start and the gaulible church girl act wa a facade to make people less suspicious of her .In fact, she was more aware of her surroundings since she noticed the body was not in the same position as before . My first guess while i was watching tho was that both of them will die and neither one of them will make it out of the house , which makes the ending in its own way unbelievable for me .
She was very smart, a worthy final girl, and probably deserved to survive.
I gave it a 8/ 10 because of the trailer being a bit misleading. I thought it was going to be about a labyrinth Hugh Grant’s character made and will be based on Religion. Almost like a religious escape room lol.
I like this. Unlike some movies open to a lot of interpretations.
The irony of when we saw this movie in theaters is that we had been hounded by Mormons the morning we were set to see this movie (had already had pre-purchased tickets thus this was just a very funny coincidence).
My husband and I discussed the end. I always thought it was end #2, but he was torn between both and our friend was instantly taken with #1. It's funny how that happens.
The ending are me tear up cause if u forgot when god closes a door he opens a window
The close up of the shoes reminded me of Dorothy’s ruby shoes in The Wizard of Oz 🧐
This movie was D tier. Slow without any burn, unimpressive acting and dialogue, not at all frightening or unsettling. Just a lot of bland reaching. Hugh Grant's character was wasted on this; it would've been far more interesting if the overall execution wasn't so lackluster.
i think the ambiguous ending was also another reference to the “belief” and “disbelief” experiment, but this time the audience are the subjects. Can we suspend our disbelief and accept that Sister Barnes resurrected to save her friend and Mr. Reid didn’t win in the end ? Or is that just too unrealistic for the circumstances, did Sister Paxton die from her injuries?
I was at a screening where we could ask questions to the directors after the film, and someone asked about the feminist lense in the film. They replied there were scenes where Mr. Reed directly calls out the role of the patriarchy in religion, and there direct control over women. However they thought it was too in your face, and felt the dynamics already existed. So, him targeting only women is the indirect nod to this idea (not due to polygamy).
Even at its most, MOST intelligent interpretation, giving it EVERY benefit of EVERY doubt - this movie didn't really have much of _anything_ to say. It ultimately had very little substance whatsoever - just the writers' pretense toward some vague, unearned meaningfulness.
Basically the movie, as per par for the Hollywood course, there is no God. That is the thing the writers wanted to say.
He offered them a choice of doors as an illusion of control. In reality they had more than two choices in how to react in that moment.
They also could have waited for someone to come looking for them while staying in the living room. (You should never go to the second location) they could have searched for more weapons to use on him or made weapons or plans for when he would come back to the living room. They never had to follow him down the hall way in the first place.
I haven’t seen the movie but just my ideas based on your retelling.
But ya the ending was for sure that everyone died. The pie eating lady died. The Barnes girl died, and Paxton and the creepy old man died along with eventually the other caged people. It was alluded to with the Taco Bell conversation.
My question I am left with. If multiple women went missing at the same location and other people knew that this was there last known location why were detectives not already clued into the fact that this guy was a major suspect in all these missing women?
Sister barns looks like Kendal Jenner
I’d love you to discuss “Here” please, wondering if I missed something
I’m so glad you cover this film 🔥
The way each Individual sees the ending answers the question of what they personally believe. A thought provoking movie nowadays? Now I have seen everything...