Yet our apologetics and debates with others exist. The problem is most critics don't have a basic understanding of our theology and then strawman us. I've never avoided a sincere question, but I have no interest in the pervasive Anti-Mormon bigotry society freely accepts.
@@IJN-33 Anyone who spends an hour researching Joseph Smith will clearly see that he made up everything he claimed. I got super interested in the subject and spent a couple of years researching him. Go read his family's diary entries about him, _ESPECIALLY_ his mother's. Also, disagreeing with someone isn't bigotry.
@@melancholymoshpit Of course not, disagreement is wonderful and enlightening. My argument was that it is often done in bigoted and logically fallacious ways. I have read it Found it a little dull honestly. I have spent many years studying his life, teachings and controversies. The one thing I would definitely not say is that Joseph Smith is a simple fraud or easily dismissed. You can make a case he was a fraud, but he's a compelling one if he is. I think the bigger concern I have is too many people only spend an hour studying it.
@@melancholymoshpit My last comment got deleted I think. I agree disagreement isn't bigoted of itself, it just happens to often be for us. I have studied his life etc. for many years including his mother's history. Mormonism being obviously fraudulent is the one thing I would definitely not say. Studying for only one hour is part of the problem for many criticisms.
As it is snowing when she gets out of the house and the butterfly is shown to actually not be there on her hand, gives me great regret that she did die and that she was never saved by her friend, but did find great solace in her belief.
I didn't get that impression at all, though I didn't see the point of the butterfly. Don't forget earlier in the film they said something about things changing when a butterfly beats its wings in China, etc. To me, now that I think of it, means that the butterfly DID beat its wings, and that her friend briefly resurrected (since the film was so big on resurrection) to save her, due to her prayer. You might say the butterfly being there was to confirm that her friend rising briefly was indeed a miracle. In any event, I'm very sure the butterfly has a distinct link in some way to that earlier mention of the butterfly theory. I recall telling my brother as the other girl was killed, that even if she's resurrected at some point, it won't last very long because she's so cut up (talk about a super accurate prediction, if indeed the film was conveying, she did resurrect).
@@charles2241 She said she wished to be reincarnated as a butterfly and would land on her loved one's finger so they'd know it was her giving them comfort from the afterlife.
@@woodswitchprints I'm getting confused, but I thought what you just said was said by the girl that seemingly survived, so what sense would it make for a random butterfly to get on "her" finger? That must indicate either it was the girl that died that said it and was the butterfly, or they just screwed up. OTOH, the one that died might had remembered the surviving girl's wish and somehow chose to give her the bonus of coming back as a butterfly. Hmm, and yet we thought the girls were some hardcore Mormons, and yet one of them, at least, seems to be thinking along reincarnation lines?
@charles2241 I interpreted as the other girl remembered her saying that and showed herself to her in spirit. Whether it was meant to welcome her to the afterlife because she died or to be a sign of liberation from her traditional belief system (Mormons don't believe in reincarnation, so the comment was definitely defiant of traditional thought), I don't know. I assumed the latter and that she survived.
@@woodswitchprints One thing is clear, this movie just about makes you lose your mind on just such a minor point of the movie. If I read you correctly here, you seem to be thinking that way I did, in that it wasn't the girl that died that wanted to come back as a butterfly, therefore, you could say it makes less sense, or you have to dig still deeper to come up with some really stretched nonsense😂 to make it all fit. My mind is so blown by that weird butterfly scene, and it having maybe a million interpretations, and I'm not even sure who said what, when butterflies were referenced. It's just killing me. BTW, excepting New Age, I don't think there's any western-based religion that teaches reincarnation, and I think that's all Far East mysticism. Again, kind of weird when you think about it, that a hardline Mormon not only would know of reincarnation, but "wants it", when it's not a Mormon concept at all.
I'm an Ex-Mormon living in Utah, so I absolutely loved this movie. The only unrealistic thing was the very first scene, because Mormon missionaries would NEVER openly discuss sex and pornography. Even openly talking about temple garments (the Mormon magic underwear) probably wouldn't happen. PS something pretty funny, I saw this movie in Ogden, Utah in a theater that's right next to a Mormon temple. When Sister Paxton said she's from Ogden, people in the theater literally cheered.
Ummm I served a mission and we discussed garments literally all the time and made jokes about them. Also, missionaries do talk about sex. It’s plausible that would happen. Now it probably wouldn’t happen on a bench out in public (because they are conditioned to be shameful of such topics) but missionaries in private totally talk about stuff like that
@josephjanson4753 if you did, you absolutely weren't supposed to. Also, I literally grew up in the church, and I never even heard about garments until I was in college. People simply didn't talk about them. Also, one of the missionaries in the movie openly talks about WATCHING PORN. Are you telling me that would be considered ok???
@@LockeDemosthenes2I’m not saying it’s ok with mission rules. Mission rules are BS though but that’s besides the point. My point is missionaries do talk about these things, regardless of whether they are “allowed” to. Missionaries do all kinds of crap they aren’t supposed to. And much of that is healthy. The mission and the rules are largely unhealthy. Talking about sex is healthy
Also been there and done that (Mormon mission) and while I agree that missionaries certainly could have talked about sex and other taboo topics, what I would like to have seen done differently in the film is that Sister Paxton definitely would have provided context for why she saw some porn. Caught her brother watching it on the computer, or something like that. She would not have just described some porn she watched and let it go at that because that it just too big of a moral no-no in Mormon world.
Come on guys, the ending isn’t that hard to comprehend. Actually done on purpose. To religious people, they see sister Barnes come back to life(Miracle) and kill Mr.Reed. Sister Paxton survives, seeing a butterfly land on her finger outside is the confirmation she needed to prove what she witnessed was a miracle. But to non-religious people, Mr.Reed likely killed Sister Barnes while she was praying and she’s having near-death hallucinations, seeing what she wants to see before dying. The ending was on purpose to prove how people’s beliefs can have them see what they want to see and this proves it. Whole movie led to this outcome and split audiences on the basis of ‘what is a miracle and is it actually a miracle’
@@jimboslice4696 as a humanist, i saw it as Barnes having the strength to save Paxton, but not herself. Barnes felt guilty for not protecting Paxton from the bullies that assaulted her and further felt guilty for not protecting her from Reed earlier, and with that small bit of desire to hold on she was able to kill Reed. Paxton finds a way out by insisting on God's ability to open a window after a door is shut. Her faith leads her to temporarily see a Butterfly on her finger as is her wishful thinking and blood loss will do, yet a moment later the butterfly is gone and so is that peaceful look on her face. She knows her prayers are merely hopes and her spiritual visions are merely hopeful as well
For me, the ending of the movie has three possible interpretations. The first is that Sister Paxton indeed died, and the entire ending, including Sister Barnes regaining enough strength to kill Mr. Reed and allow Paxton to escape, was merely an illusion in her dying moments. The second possibility is that everything that transpired did happen, and Paxton managed to find her way out, even encountering the butterfly. The third possibility is that the butterfly’s presence on her finger and subsequent disappearance could symbolize Barnes’s spirit or soul comforting her or serving as a confirmation of her faith that religion isn’t solely about control. The movie’s open ending allows for multiple interpretations and discussions, which is fitting for something that gives us without questions. We shouldn’t simply accept things at face value; there’s always a deeper meaning behind them.
Choosing to believe in a single interpretation of the film is the film putting the viewer into the same trap Mr. Reed put the missionaries in, just as both doors Mr. Reed presents to the missionaries lead into the same trap, making the choice to believe either one of these interpretations over the other is how you become entrapped. So the real meaning of the film is there is no "real" interpretation or ending, all of them are valid simultaneously and all have evidence to back up their interpretations, choosing to believe one interpretation over the other is like choosing to believe one religion over the other, and disbelieving all of them is itself a belief in something fundamentally unknowable. Choosing at all is the trap.
“Someone who believes in religion but still has their doubts is a person who can’t be completely fooled or fully controlled, verses someone who is a blind follower.” Great quote and I think this rings true!
I love this movie everything that Mr. Reed said about religion is absolutely true, but I still believe there is a God not because I was told, but because I’ve seen him work in my life
The key point this review seems to be missing is the symbolism behind the woman coming back to life and killing the man. Earlier in the film, the man tries to deceive her by saying he believes life is just a simulation, implying that once she’s dead, she won’t return because, as part of this “simulation,” she’s merely a disposable figure. He’s using this argument as a manipulation tactic, not because he genuinely believes it. However, when she does come back to life, it’s a symbolic moment. Her return challenges his claim, confronting him with the unsettling possibility that he could be wrong about the nature of existence. Her revival suggests that, even if he dismisses the idea of an afterlife or the possibility of existing within a simulation, there’s no certainty in his assumptions. The film is, in essence, “calling him out” and quite literally “smacking him in the head by showing that he doesn’t hold the ultimate truth. So, her resurrection isn’t just a plot twist, -it’s a reminder that we don’t truly know what lies beyond life or the nature of reality itself. He could have been wrong.
Religion is false. God is real. Can't have this reality without someone with the mental capacity to create it or imagine it. Maybe God is sleeping, and we are the dream. Or God is just a demi urge, neither good or bad, just a being like me and you who created an experiment or we are all parts of God, trying to entertain himself. Like a person watching a play. A play where he is both the director and the actor.
There are multiple ways to interpret the butterfly. The sister may have been hallucinating due to blood loss. Or the other sister only shows up momentarily as a butterfly to let her know she's on the other side and then disappears. Or it's just a butterfly from the house and it flew away.
The butterfly wasn’t really there though she was only seeing it in her mind. She initially sees it but then the next shot she’s still looking at her finger and nothing is there. I need to rewatch!
What would a part 2 explore…I can’t see them making a part 2 without tampering with the essence of this one. This movie had a message and the message was sent in a thought provoking entertaining way. A sequel would not get the same pay off for saying the same message, which was this movies strong suit
Religion is false. God is real. Can't have this reality without someone with the mental capacity to create it or imagine it. Maybe God is sleeping, and we are the dream. Or God is just a demi urge, neither good or bad, just a being like me and you who created an experiment or we are all parts of God, trying to entertain himself. Like a person watching a play. A play where he is both the director and the actor.
@@Justmyopinionsir-q4v Yeah, we used to discuss the idea of a God watching us as if we are entertainment (in Philosophy at school). But I do not believe in God or Satan, I believe in religion or Gods used as a manner of CONTROL. That's why I find this movie so alluring.
@@ChrisM-yq2pq True I got the idea from religion, but based from my observation, religion mainly uses God as an excuse to get money and control. If we were to use common sense and just human logic, which the old people use to do, people worship nature, the sun, because they know that someone created these things to benefit human kind, no need of religion to fill religious leaders pockets while the rest starve. Just worship the God because he can be found throughout creation.
@Justmyopinionsir-q4v creation? Really? People believe in creation because they cannot comprehend the idea of natural process and evolution. There is no god who creates nor who rewards, judges or punishes. There is no need to believe in one. If you still think someone created all these, yes go ahead but at least for the practical purpose of anything there is no such need.
The message from this film is don't go to strangers'homes imposing your beliefs on others. It's not safe for women to go into strangers homes. You don't know that person anything can happen. This is the world we live in, sad yet true.✌🏽❤️
They're taught God will protect them and to have faith in God's plan. And that is a horribly dangerous lesson that teaches (young) people to be naive and ignore their human intuition and sense of self preservation. You're right. Missionary work is for "adults" without fully developed brains to do the dangerous and unpleasant work of building the religion. Just like in War, these immature adults are used because they are naive and without other responsibilities. If they get murdered it's sad but not a great loss for their church or country. I hope more young people will see how they are merely pawns in powerful men's games. Don't watch an anti-religion movie or pro-critical thinking movie only to be mad at other cogs of the machine. You have to take your concerns up with the people who are in control; the church, the politicians, the CEOs. We have a right to demand respect.
What's missed here is that an early conversation among the three touched on the so-called near death experience (NDE), and the question of whether an NDE is merely a hallucination the brain manufactures as death becomes imminent. My interpretation of the movie's end is that Sister Paxton did die from the stab wound Mr. Reed inflicted and had an NDE: where Sister Barnes came back to life to finish off Mr. Reed before he could finish off Sister P and that her subsequent escape from the house was part of the NDE, symbolized by the hallucinatory butterfly briefly seen on her finger. Her declaration of faith toward the end, as she prays no matter if it helps or not, allows her to die free from the house and in the clear light of day in a beautiful, snowy (symbol of purity) landscape. Religion (praying) may have given her some peace, but science (NDE phenomena) may have been what truly gave her peace.
Ok, maybe I missed something, but at the end of the movie, the girl is in the field and sees the butterfly. The filmmaker shows two perspectives. In only one perspective is the butterfly shown, from the girl's perspective. I took that as the filmmaker saying belief is relative. The girl wanted to continue believing, and on the verge of death, hallucinates (for lack of a better word) the butterfly.
Great review. I watched it today and thoroughly enjoyed it. My take on the ending was that her pray was answered by her friend finding the strength to end him. However, as she said she would like to come back as a butterfly to let the person know it was her, that she had in fact died.
@@spliffzombonie lol sure buddy whatever helps u sleep at night….just remember one day you’ll die ….I would rather live my life as if there is a god and die to find out there isn't, than live my life as if there isn't and die to find out there is.
@@hasnainrana6416 I used to think that way buddy. You're free to believe whatever you want as long as it gives you peace. Just don't shove your belief on someone else. And one more thing, your whole belief, the last thing you said, is just based on fear. You want to believe because you fear of finding out an actual god when you die. I don't like that. I like to live, love people, and preserve my morals regardless if there is a reward at the end. Regardless if there is a god or not. Regardless if I get to live forever or not. Of course, this is not for everyone.
@@spliffzombonie i agree with wht u said in the beginning. I disagree with what u said abt my whole belief being based on fear, in reality my belief is based on not just fear but HOPE. Also fear isn't a bad thing, fear drives pple out of their comfort zone, also fear can push pple away from doing bad things and can drive pple to do good things. About what u said at the end, that's great but IMO it's better to preserve ur morals and love people with a belief in God than without, cuz belief in God adds a layer of depth to everything. but hey believe what u wanna believe, I'm not trynna debate u... much love, stay healthy!
Hugh Grant had me in awe the entire movie!!! I thoroughly enjoyed this film. The ending was maybe a little too in the nose or idk like “in the end faith prevails” vibe but i guess it could also be perfect considering how sister P was clever and managed to deconstruct her faith and still was able to push through because of it? Idk if any of this makes sense lol but overall i really liked this movie
In watching this (amazing and I totally recommend it if you can handle a dialogue heavy first act) movie, I took the thesis to be that control isn’t the true religion, EMPATHY is. Sister P explains that the point of prayer isn’t to effect real change - even the Bible has a parable about not expecting prayer to save you when you haven’t taken any action. The true point of prayer is knowing someone cares enough to pray for you. That’s the miracle. And when Sister B wakes up, that’s the true miracle in the movie - just as Hugh Grant said she’d do. The point is that god or the universe or whatever is showing Hugh’s character that he doesn’t truly have control. He believes control is the point of religion. But those who pay attention can see that the true through line through every iteration of the religion is empathy and love and caring. Even after trying to kill him Sister P shows empathy to HG’s character and prays for him. She has done everything she can, taken every action she can to fight his evil and at the end all she can do is pray. And her prayer is answered with a Lazarinthian miracle. I’m ex LDS and not very religious but I thought this movie was AMAZING. I may not have firm religious beliefs, but I love the respect and care they showed at the end - proving that for all Hugh’s debating and trying to prove he’s a man dreaming he’s a butterfly…in the end we are all just butterflies. The movie firmly commits to the idea of an afterlife in Sister B’s reincarnation as a butterfly. Honestly I want to watch this movie again because there were so many details - even down to how each sister carried her bike up the stairs to foreshadow who would survive. It’s truly a well-made super tight script where everything is foreshadowed and everything comes back around. Lol sorry for writing a book on here. You should do another video analysis on this one it was fascinating and I’m glad I found your channel
@@cosa_oscura or, she is dying on the floor, and having a hallucination because of the blood loss and she never left the floor. So there was no miracle, she just hallucinated that in her moment of dying, snow outside, everything white and the butterfly….
The fact that you pointed out that this movie plays no psychological tricks on the viewer is all the spot analysis I needed. It shows how deep you watched it.
I like how the theme of iteration continues through the end credits. What I thought was "Fade Into You" by Mazzy Star was a cover of "Knockin' on Heaven's Door".
The "miracle" ending was purposely ambigious. The logical interpretation is Barnes didn't die initially, she passed out and was the brink of dying, and had one last gasp effort to stop Reed. And the butterfly at the end was just a butterfly (they saw it flying around earlier looking for a way out, when she broke out it escaped with her). It's perfectly reasonable explanation without adding a supernatural/magical explanation. The religious/spritual interpretation is Barnes died & was resurrected and the butterfly was her spirit. This addresses a major issue with religious belief where people add meaning to things that don't need them and fool themselves. and it's the perfect compliment to the 1st half of the movie which is about how scammers can fool people into believing whatever they want, whether about religion or blueberry pies
I thought it was interesting at the very end where it flashed suddenly and the butterfly was gone, maybe supporting the "simulation hypothesis" talked about earlier in the film. Another interesting fact is in the credits is a cover song of Bob Dylan's knocking on heavens door, which I think is a nod to the reiterations of the board games and music also mentioned earlier in the movie
@@joelsnyder5866 I mean a woman is an adult lol but regardless, the specification doesn’t actually change literally anything. Either way he still lied to get them to come inside.
This was a great break down. I agree with the theme of belief and disbelief down to the last scene. Remember butterfly also symbolizes transformation which is a good call back to Sister Paxston.
The idea that she died in the basement does make the most sense in the context of belief and not following the evidence. If you believe that her friend survived what was done to her, you are making a massive jump considering how grounded and world is. It plays with this concept with the prophet and sets it up with the prophets speech.
I disagree because Sister Paxton wasn't praying for release from the basement her prayer was of thanks, and praying for others up to the very end. Right before Mr. Reed goes to stab her in the neck. She wasn't praying for help to get out. So that wouldn't really make sense about how if Sister Barnes survived long enough to kill Mr. Reed. They also very clearly used foreshadowing regarding the piece of wood with nails.
The implant being removed and doing what he did to the vein or artery would kill you. Though that also could have slowed her death down by a little bit too, but I am guessing from the throat cut, no way she lived more than maybe 15 minutes.
In response to this movie the LDS church put out a formal statement that they're displeased with it, saying that it suggests they promote violence against women
Man I completely interpreted the ending differently. I think that Mr. Reed actually stabs her in the neck when she’s praying and everything after was a hallucination. I thought this because earlier in the movie when they were talking about near death experiences it’s said that one will experience (see/feel) miracles as they pass on. So when she saw sister Barnes miraculously get up just in time , or that she suddenly has the strength to get up and climb out, or all of a sudden it’s completely beautiful outside when moments before it was a massive storm I think that was all in her mind and finally the miracle butterfly that disappeared in the next shot gave her the peace and in the very last shot you see her face has almost a realization
Reed ripped off the sister's tendons when he was reaching for the 'chip'. It is impossible to hold and hit someone without tendons, she was very dead. It's either a miracle or a hallucination.
True but why do we need to have faith? We don't operate on that system of doing things anywhere else in life. Everywhere else we demand evidence and proof of something.
@@Dr.Beetlejuice110 But you can't get proof without death, or truly knowing what lies after it. So that separates faith from other things that can be rationalized in those terms.
@Dr.Beetlejuice110 according to the Bible "faith is the assured expectation of things hoped for the evidence of things not seen". So actually it is not blind, it is based on "assured expectation" and "evidence". We have this sort of faith all the time in everyday things. For example, when you drive you have faith when you step on the brake the car will stop. Do you 100% know this will actually happen? No you don't. In fact there is a chance they fail and it might not. But you have the assured expectation it will because every other time the brakes worked so based on that evidence and assurance you stake your life on the fact next time they will also work. But you can't technically know. That's what faith is.
The opening also establishes that religion is another form of marketing, and like marketing, it doesn't mean that it's right or wrong. It's that its main concern is selling something and not being right (morally or factually).
Can anyone tell me why after stabbing Mr. reed and making her way to his office, she goes back into the dungeon? Take the time to barricade the office door, but goes down there where she knows there are tunnels.
This movie is well wrotten in general, but a big reason is because it isn't particularly interested in telling you what you have to think about its themes and ideas, regardless of the opinions of those making it. Not only is that just good writing practics in gsneral (which more storytellers today meed to follow than currently do), it shows that they're self aware enough to apply their own ideas to themselves. The story is clearly questions blind faith, but it also questions the antagonist as well. For or against faith in any religious system or spiritual practice isn't the point. The point is that whether you are religious/spiritual or not, regardless of what you do or don't believe, you should always be guided by critical thinking (Sister Barnes and by the end, Sister Paxton) and both reject blind faith (Sister Paxton at the beginning) and guard against motivated reasoning to justify your beliefs and actions (Mr. Reed).
I think Barnes coming back was real, but the butterfly was a hallucination (whether she was dying or it was just a near-death experience I don't know). Also, I think there was one more theme you missed: belief vs. action. We were led to believe that Barnes was the one who thought critically, and Paxton was the blind follower, based on how they acted. But, that wasn't entirely true. Barnes thought critically, but for better or worse she still believed. Paxton knowing about that study at the end meant she'd already done her research too, and I think the implication was she already thought her religion was a crock. She just didn't care. She wanted the community.
@@SerpenThrope me personally I thought it was just showing that it’s nicer for her to believe that her friend is in a better place and she imagines that whole situation but in reality it’s not there. But it’s real to her
Man created religions as interpretations of a situation that is incredibly nuanced and evocative, that is very fair to say - but there's also a vast arrogance of atheism that basically claims we are the center of the universe which is incredibly safe to say we're not. I can appreciate the idea that our consciousness and intelligence were created or creative-chaosed by a source that is beyond capable in ways we cannot comprehend. As humans, we're incredibly unusual on this planet as well, almost objectively god-like in comparison to much of this ecosystem. Capable of leaving language and information that can last over 12,000+ years for distant generations now to interpret and decipher (e.g. the Gobekli Tepe site).
I think she could escape at the end cuz Mr. Reed died indeed, but she died outside the house so she was hallucinating in the end that's why 'knocking on heaven's door' plays in the credits scene
Your question doesn't really make sense because one doesn't have to prove religion is fake, rather than any religion has to prove it is right, which they are uncapable of doing.
If she escaped the house, how did she know the model of the house had a secret key? I think it was all in her head while she was dying on the floor. The snow outside was the white light she was drawn to and what butterfly flies in winter? But great movie, great scenery and 3 great actors, will watch it again and probably again❤
Easy question no. Idk how many times it's said he does NOT interfere. If he did believe wouldn't be in faith. It's real simple why no matter what you go through it's a blink compared to eternity. This movie really doesn't cause the questions it believes it does. Nicest way to say this if you need proof of your faith then you don't have it. Guys a lunatic simple as. Still decent movie.
Humanity has conquered death. By inventing religion,wich reveals to us that we live even when we die. We all will survive death😮. The last scene I believe was a hallucination. She never escaped the house. The escape and butterfly scenes was the nervous system trying to help her stay calm. To slow down bleeding to give her a chance to survive. She bled out inside the house.
I think she died and imagined that happening before she died. Her phone had no signal once outside and butterflies can’t survive in a snowstorm or winter.
One thing that bugs me after she escapes is that her phone still shows no service. There has to be a reason for showing this. Also, if you go with the theory that she died in the basement, how would she know about the model of the house? She never saw it until she escaped the basement after being stabbed. The butterfly on her finger could have been a hallucination while dying.
I think you missed one small aspect about Paxton at the end. When she finds freedom, she sees the world as it is (like a pinhole image) for a brief moment, and then aligns herself to that perspective. On top of the dialogue, the interplay of the light and the dark and angles is a feast for the eyes
Im a christian and my religion is bible Baptist Church here in Philippines🇵🇭 we do believe in death burial and resurrection of jesus christ this is what we believe and we save in death in hell. Religion can not be save to our sin but Local church like religion can be our learning more about jesus christ our authority in church is not a pastor, or elder but what God tells us the king james kjv 16 can explain more because this is the only bible we do believe and read.
Great video and keep it up. One thing i would add is that the butterfly at the end was in her mind not real. One scene its there and then it's not. Did like her friend saving her in the end but hey....good movie with one minor flaw!
By choosing to believe in "the real" ending of the film, that she survived and escaped, you are falling into the same trap Mr. Reed laid out for the missionaries who themselves were trying to figure out what "the truth" was from what Mr. Reed was telling them. The message the film is that this is a false choice, just like the two doors Mr. Reed presents to the missionaries, choosing to believe or not believe leads into the same trap because both believing and not believing the story are themselves beliefs, because the true answer is fundamentally unknowable, just like how religions are all stories told by people about a shared reality that is fundamentally unknowable, despite our constant search for answers that don't exist. All religions are true and false at the same time, choosing to believe one over another as "the truth", or even choosing to believe that they are all lies, is the trap. We fundamentally cannot know the true nature of reality, but choosing to believe in one version of reality despite proof is just part of being human, reliably falling into the trap is a fundamental part of the human experience.
both protagonists die at the end of the film, the snow at the end symbolises the "clouds" and sister barnes coming back was most likely paxton's brain justifying the end of her life by killing mr reed. The butterfly at the very end of the film is a call back to the butterfly theory because paxton is both dead and reincarnated as a butterfly which is why it's not on her finger in the last clip of the film. pretty cool ending but hard to pick up if you're not over-analysing lol
The irony of this film is how from an athiest perspective there is no good or bad people in it so therefore where is the suspense if either the girls or the man dies?
Ok before I say anything this is actually one of the better reviews I’ve seen, so props to you. It’s generally not a good idea to blindly follow anything just for the sake of following that thing. Now I’m not a Mormon, so I won’t speak on the Book of Mormon, but I *am* a Christian. So I can speak on the validity of the Bible. Like I said before, it’s important to not just blindly follow anything, and have critical thinking. But I don’t think this movie has the answer to if religion is real or fake with just the elements it tries to touch on. Many people have been drawn to Christ as well as wandered away, using critical thinking. So it’s really a matter of perspectives. Asking questions is important, but I believe if you ask enough questions it will always lead the inquirer back to God. This has happened with me. In essence, if critical thinking, (in this terminology) is used to draw people away from religion, then even more so, when willing to question themselves as well as their topic, critical thinking draws you back to God in full circle. Because all He wants to do is welcome you back to Him. Christianity is more so a relationship with Christ than a religion, but it holds up when even pinned against other religions. When we really start to question each other’s stances. Because the main difference is, we rest upon Christ’s finish work on the cross, and not hoping to be good enough. Because we never will be and that’s the point of grace. Following God doesn’t take away critical thinking, it actually enhances it if we if we dare ask that question. Anyway, just some deep thought. Sorry for the rant. I actually love A24 and horror so the vibe of this movie actually hits different. Actors did a fantastic job too.
You are brainwashed into your religion, one of the mindless slaves in the movie. Critical thinking will not lead to believe in one religion, maybe into thinking there must be a first mover. But it cannot lead you to any god, there is zero evidence for any of the 3000 gods made up by men. Maybe watch the movie again?
I’m confused as to why Sister Paxton was so openly discussing reincarnation and then having that faith supposedly confirmed when it goes against her actual religion that she is a part of. As far as I know Mormons reject the idea of reincarnation.
I don't think the butterfly part was accurate because it didn't really land on the finger, but more on the fatty part of the palm. That could be the Reed himself.
I like to think that Paxton actually died when Reed crawled to her and then stabbed her in the neck and the ending of her being saved by Barnes was just a hallucination Paxton’s brain came up with in her final breaths
Consider that the ending was meant to be intentionally ambiguous, because as with the general motif from the film, when left with unknowns it becomes easier to believe whatever makes you feel comfortable. Create your own explanation as to what the ending really meant. For me, I think the fact that the butterfly did not fly away but rather disappeared tells me that sister Paxton had been having a near-death hallucination and Barnes had never woken up; She had died, and so did both herself and Mr. Read. But, like I said, interpret it anyway you like. That's what I think makes the ending brilliant.
That A24 on the gate is not in the actual film unless you have the deleted scenes, which if you do, may we see what ended up on the cutting room floor? Some scenes jumped too quickly, I thought.
This does sound like a very intriguing and thought-provoking movie. Two things that just ring unrealistic to me; 1) That they would enter the house with the wife site unseen even if there is the scent of blueberry pie, and 2) That they would use the term magic underwear since it is a very derogatory term for what to them is very sacred religious clothing.
I don't think butterfly was sister Barn! it was sister Paxton hallucinating in her last moments, she was the one who wanted to be back as a butterfly not sister Barn! Butterfly disappeared, it wasn't there neither she was. remember when they talked sister Barn talking about having near death experience and hallucinations, that conversation confirms the ending, Sister Barn never saved her.
The one problem I have with the film is he says that the one true religion is control and that they allow him to do those things to them. However, they did try leaving and he kept them their because of the locked door. That kind of shoots his theory in the foot a little. Even though I do agree with most of his premise that people a sheep to he herded. It would have been better if they had did everything without trying to leave, but I understand it for plot purposes.
I haven't seen Heretic yet. But I intend to soon. I kinda hate the ad for it, but I think it's brilliant. I hate it because it sounds like a Hallmark type deal or an ad for a church. That's precisely why it's brilliant. Then that joke thing comes in so slick and oops, this guy is bad news and that's all I know and want to know until I see it. Oh I did watch 2 minutes of the review and sensed spoilers, will watch the rest after I've seen the movie.
I enjoyed the part where one of the girls complimented mr Reed on being more dedicated to studying the book of Mormon than they were. As an ex Christian I always found it fascinating that you will run into atheists who have more knowledge of the Bible and the history of it than most Christians. I guess it's not surprising though, those atheists also tend to be ex Christians who had unresolved questions who did enough research into their ideology to convince them that their religious beliefs weren't inerrant facts
I really think she died in the basement. Everything else was her brain making up fantastical things, like what was referred to during Taco Bell dialogue
Movie got a lot wrong about the ancient Egyptian religion, Osiris was only resurrected, nothing else, but Isis had to put him back together, she only found 13 of the 14 pieces of his body
Very nice movie…. I think she died, I was trying to make sense of the cellphone on the ground that fell when she jumped out of the window. Did he purposely put the bicycle key in her coat? it’s a movie that is really about control. Control is the number one religion?
It's a good movie based on facts pertaining to religious mythology. Will it change the minds of the brainwashed? Nope. They will continue pretending because it makes them feel comfortable. 😳
Uummm, i hate to be a stickler, but was there really enough time for her to be reincarnated into a caterpillar, build a cocoon, and then become a butterfly
This movie will only strengthen what you already believe, i think. Which is fine...This movie isnt try8ing to do either...I think its trying to test yourself and what YOU believe.... Or it could just be a movie. Its all of those and none.
As soon as they realized the blueberry pie was fake, they should have searched for a weapon and stayed near the front door until help arrived or taken more drastic action, like confronting the old man directly to force him to open the door. Regarding the movie as a whole, I found the religious discussions to be quite superficial. Any well-read atheist could cover the same points raised by the old man in about ten minutes of conversation. For more thought-provoking religious debates, Sunset Limited offers a far superior experience. I found the film intriguing and engaging on the psychological horror front until the ending, which left me disappointed. I felt the movie explored quite a few things, but nothing extremely well. 7/10 for me.
Yeah, he definitely overheard them talking using the speaker device he used to talk to them from upstairs. He killed her because he knew she was plotting to kill him. She was proving herself to difficult to be controlled, so he literally cut his loses.
This one of the best movie ive seen in a while. It was thought provoking, unsettling but then again for someone who also spiritual I just want to know the truth and it more excites in a good way rather than worries me about the killing or so.
The Crypt of Dendera in Egypt also resembles to the 2 stairways leading to the same place...a crypt used for rituals symbolic of the resurrection of Osiris and Horus...an initiatory rite...possibly similar to Mithraic cults as well
I loved this movie, but I agree man, the ending infuriated me. WHY after all of the movie pointing to logic and reason, would the most UNREASONABLE of all things happen in the end!? Just absolutely stupid to me.
Most unrealistic part of the film is questioning Mormons and them sticking around to listen 😂😂😂
Yeah they get in the wind...when critical thinking comes about😂😂😂
Yet our apologetics and debates with others exist. The problem is most critics don't have a basic understanding of our theology and then strawman us. I've never avoided a sincere question, but I have no interest in the pervasive Anti-Mormon bigotry society freely accepts.
@@IJN-33 Anyone who spends an hour researching Joseph Smith will clearly see that he made up everything he claimed.
I got super interested in the subject and spent a couple of years researching him. Go read his family's diary entries about him, _ESPECIALLY_ his mother's.
Also, disagreeing with someone isn't bigotry.
@@melancholymoshpit Of course not, disagreement is wonderful and enlightening. My argument was that it is often done in bigoted and logically fallacious ways. I have read it
Found it a little dull honestly. I have spent many years studying his life, teachings and controversies. The one thing I would definitely not say is that Joseph Smith is a simple fraud or easily dismissed. You can make a case he was a fraud, but he's a compelling one if he is. I think the bigger concern I have is too many people only spend an hour studying it.
@@melancholymoshpit My last comment got deleted I think. I agree disagreement isn't bigoted of itself, it just happens to often be for us. I have studied his life etc. for many years including his mother's history. Mormonism being obviously fraudulent is the one thing I would definitely not say. Studying for only one hour is part of the problem for many criticisms.
Giving your audience a blue berry pie, and further playing on the audience's skepticism, is genius marketing for driving their point even further
As it is snowing when she gets out of the house and the butterfly is shown to actually not be there on her hand, gives me great regret that she did die and that she was never saved by her friend, but did find great solace in her belief.
I didn't get that impression at all, though I didn't see the point of the butterfly. Don't forget earlier in the film they said something about things changing when a butterfly beats its wings in China, etc. To me, now that I think of it, means that the butterfly DID beat its wings, and that her friend briefly resurrected (since the film was so big on resurrection) to save her, due to her prayer. You might say the butterfly being there was to confirm that her friend rising briefly was indeed a miracle. In any event, I'm very sure the butterfly has a distinct link in some way to that earlier mention of the butterfly theory. I recall telling my brother as the other girl was killed, that even if she's resurrected at some point, it won't last very long because she's so cut up (talk about a super accurate prediction, if indeed the film was conveying, she did resurrect).
@@charles2241 She said she wished to be reincarnated as a butterfly and would land on her loved one's finger so they'd know it was her giving them comfort from the afterlife.
@@woodswitchprints I'm getting confused, but I thought what you just said was said by the girl that seemingly survived, so what sense would it make for a random butterfly to get on "her" finger? That must indicate either it was the girl that died that said it and was the butterfly, or they just screwed up. OTOH, the one that died might had remembered the surviving girl's wish and somehow chose to give her the bonus of coming back as a butterfly. Hmm, and yet we thought the girls were some hardcore Mormons, and yet one of them, at least, seems to be thinking along reincarnation lines?
@charles2241 I interpreted as the other girl remembered her saying that and showed herself to her in spirit. Whether it was meant to welcome her to the afterlife because she died or to be a sign of liberation from her traditional belief system (Mormons don't believe in reincarnation, so the comment was definitely defiant of traditional thought), I don't know. I assumed the latter and that she survived.
@@woodswitchprints One thing is clear, this movie just about makes you lose your mind on just such a minor point of the movie. If I read you correctly here, you seem to be thinking that way I did, in that it wasn't the girl that died that wanted to come back as a butterfly, therefore, you could say it makes less sense, or you have to dig still deeper to come up with some really stretched nonsense😂 to make it all fit. My mind is so blown by that weird butterfly scene, and it having maybe a million interpretations, and I'm not even sure who said what, when butterflies were referenced. It's just killing me. BTW, excepting New Age, I don't think there's any western-based religion that teaches reincarnation, and I think that's all Far East mysticism. Again, kind of weird when you think about it, that a hardline Mormon not only would know of reincarnation, but "wants it", when it's not a Mormon concept at all.
Hugh Grant does creepy guy to perfection.
In other words, just being himself as usual?
I agree, and I’m worried because the last time an actor was this convincingly creepy, he turned out to be Kevin Spacey. 🕯️
@danielchapter70128 💯💯😁😁
@@GroinFaceGroin did you know he picked up a prostitute in Los Angeles back in the 90s?
@@nanskidds4214 so does Dennis Quaid in (intruder) good acting
I'm an Ex-Mormon living in Utah, so I absolutely loved this movie. The only unrealistic thing was the very first scene, because Mormon missionaries would NEVER openly discuss sex and pornography. Even openly talking about temple garments (the Mormon magic underwear) probably wouldn't happen.
PS something pretty funny, I saw this movie in Ogden, Utah in a theater that's right next to a Mormon temple. When Sister Paxton said she's from Ogden, people in the theater literally cheered.
Ummm I served a mission and we discussed garments literally all the time and made jokes about them. Also, missionaries do talk about sex. It’s plausible that would happen. Now it probably wouldn’t happen on a bench out in public (because they are conditioned to be shameful of such topics) but missionaries in private totally talk about stuff like that
@josephjanson4753 if you did, you absolutely weren't supposed to. Also, I literally grew up in the church, and I never even heard about garments until I was in college. People simply didn't talk about them.
Also, one of the missionaries in the movie openly talks about WATCHING PORN. Are you telling me that would be considered ok???
@@LockeDemosthenes2I’m not saying it’s ok with mission rules. Mission rules are BS though but that’s besides the point. My point is missionaries do talk about these things, regardless of whether they are “allowed” to. Missionaries do all kinds of crap they aren’t supposed to. And much of that is healthy. The mission and the rules are largely unhealthy. Talking about sex is healthy
Bro my ex would be a missionary if she had to and she cheated on her husband with me lmao. Mormon women are wild on the dl, they’re my favorite
Also been there and done that (Mormon mission) and while I agree that missionaries certainly could have talked about sex and other taboo topics, what I would like to have seen done differently in the film is that Sister Paxton definitely would have provided context for why she saw some porn. Caught her brother watching it on the computer, or something like that. She would not have just described some porn she watched and let it go at that because that it just too big of a moral no-no in Mormon world.
Come on guys, the ending isn’t that hard to comprehend. Actually done on purpose. To religious people, they see sister Barnes come back to life(Miracle) and kill Mr.Reed. Sister Paxton survives, seeing a butterfly land on her finger outside is the confirmation she needed to prove what she witnessed was a miracle. But to non-religious people, Mr.Reed likely killed Sister Barnes while she was praying and she’s having near-death hallucinations, seeing what she wants to see before dying. The ending was on purpose to prove how people’s beliefs can have them see what they want to see and this proves it. Whole movie led to this outcome and split audiences on the basis of ‘what is a miracle and is it actually a miracle’
Good point. In fact, the Zhuangzi butterfly might be an invitation to choose which ending suits you the most.
@@jimboslice4696 as a humanist, i saw it as Barnes having the strength to save Paxton, but not herself. Barnes felt guilty for not protecting Paxton from the bullies that assaulted her and further felt guilty for not protecting her from Reed earlier, and with that small bit of desire to hold on she was able to kill Reed. Paxton finds a way out by insisting on God's ability to open a window after a door is shut. Her faith leads her to temporarily see a Butterfly on her finger as is her wishful thinking and blood loss will do, yet a moment later the butterfly is gone and so is that peaceful look on her face. She knows her prayers are merely hopes and her spiritual visions are merely hopeful as well
ok your smart ok? 😂
So a movie that says nothing other than "what do you believe in?" Wow, truly stunning
Exactly this, it goes back to the whole belief or disbelief argument, you interpret the ending depending on how you see it
For me, the ending of the movie has three possible interpretations. The first is that Sister Paxton indeed died, and the entire ending, including Sister Barnes regaining enough strength to kill Mr. Reed and allow Paxton to escape, was merely an illusion in her dying moments. The second possibility is that everything that transpired did happen, and Paxton managed to find her way out, even encountering the butterfly. The third possibility is that the butterfly’s presence on her finger and subsequent disappearance could symbolize Barnes’s spirit or soul comforting her or serving as a confirmation of her faith that religion isn’t solely about control. The movie’s open ending allows for multiple interpretations and discussions, which is fitting for something that gives us without questions. We shouldn’t simply accept things at face value; there’s always a deeper meaning behind them.
Yeah cuz hallucinations can happen during death
@@Mangolite I like your interpretations. Also the monarch butterfly 🦋 could be an occult symbol of mind control.
Choosing to believe in a single interpretation of the film is the film putting the viewer into the same trap Mr. Reed put the missionaries in, just as both doors Mr. Reed presents to the missionaries lead into the same trap, making the choice to believe either one of these interpretations over the other is how you become entrapped. So the real meaning of the film is there is no "real" interpretation or ending, all of them are valid simultaneously and all have evidence to back up their interpretations, choosing to believe one interpretation over the other is like choosing to believe one religion over the other, and disbelieving all of them is itself a belief in something fundamentally unknowable. Choosing at all is the trap.
“Someone who believes in religion but still has their doubts is a person who can’t be completely fooled or fully controlled, verses someone who is a blind follower.”
Great quote and I think this rings true!
versus not verses
And what about someone who doesn't belive?
I love this movie everything that Mr. Reed said about religion is absolutely true, but I still believe there is a God not because I was told, but because I’ve seen him work in my life
The key point this review seems to be missing is the symbolism behind the woman coming back to life and killing the man.
Earlier in the film, the man tries to deceive her by saying he believes life is just a simulation, implying that once she’s dead, she won’t return because, as part of this “simulation,” she’s merely a disposable figure. He’s using this argument as a manipulation tactic, not because he genuinely believes it.
However, when she does come back to life, it’s a symbolic moment. Her return challenges his claim, confronting him with the unsettling possibility that he could be wrong about the nature of existence. Her revival suggests that, even if he dismisses the idea of an afterlife or the possibility of existing within a simulation, there’s no certainty in his assumptions. The film is, in essence, “calling him out” and quite literally “smacking him in the head by showing that he doesn’t hold the ultimate truth.
So, her resurrection isn’t just a plot twist, -it’s a reminder that we don’t truly know what lies beyond life or the nature of reality itself. He could have been wrong.
Religion is false. God is real.
Can't have this reality without someone with the mental capacity to create it or imagine it. Maybe God is sleeping, and we are the dream. Or God is just a demi urge, neither good or bad, just a being like me and you who created an experiment or we are all parts of God, trying to entertain himself. Like a person watching a play. A play where he is both the director and the actor.
There are multiple ways to interpret the butterfly. The sister may have been hallucinating due to blood loss. Or the other sister only shows up momentarily as a butterfly to let her know she's on the other side and then disappears. Or it's just a butterfly from the house and it flew away.
And you don’t reincarnate to a lower form of life.
@@hlnbee Yes, you do that is because it's based on your Karma.
Great explanation
The butterfly wasn’t really there though she was only seeing it in her mind. She initially sees it but then the next shot she’s still looking at her finger and nothing is there. I need to rewatch!
I've watched at least 5 Heretic reviews, and this is By Far the best. 👏
This means a lot, thank you!
Agreed
@@ElliotStevenKATZ I can’t believe you made this video before seeing the movie! Excellent explanation and review so far as I saw a few reviews!
I hope that you do end up doing a part two to this one. Thank you for this review.
Thank you! If many others feel the same, I'll definitely make a part 2.
What would a part 2 explore…I can’t see them making a part 2 without tampering with the essence of this one.
This movie had a message and the message was sent in a thought provoking entertaining way.
A sequel would not get the same pay off for saying the same message, which was this movies strong suit
As an ex Mormon, and former sister missionary I already love this movie!!!!!!
Religion is false. God is real.
Can't have this reality without someone with the mental capacity to create it or imagine it. Maybe God is sleeping, and we are the dream. Or God is just a demi urge, neither good or bad, just a being like me and you who created an experiment or we are all parts of God, trying to entertain himself. Like a person watching a play. A play where he is both the director and the actor.
@@Justmyopinionsir-q4v Yeah, we used to discuss the idea of a God watching us as if we are entertainment (in Philosophy at school). But I do not believe in God or Satan, I believe in religion or Gods used as a manner of CONTROL. That's why I find this movie so alluring.
@@Justmyopinionsir-q4vbut you got your idea of god from religion so how do you know God is real
@@ChrisM-yq2pq True I got the idea from religion, but based from my observation, religion mainly uses God as an excuse to get money and control. If we were to use common sense and just human logic, which the old people use to do, people worship nature, the sun, because they know that someone created these things to benefit human kind, no need of religion to fill religious leaders pockets while the rest starve. Just worship the God because he can be found throughout creation.
@Justmyopinionsir-q4v creation? Really? People believe in creation because they cannot comprehend the idea of natural process and evolution. There is no god who creates nor who rewards, judges or punishes. There is no need to believe in one. If you still think someone created all these, yes go ahead but at least for the practical purpose of anything there is no such need.
The message from this film is don't go to strangers'homes imposing your beliefs on others. It's not safe for women to go into strangers homes. You don't know that person anything can happen. This is the world we live in, sad yet true.✌🏽❤️
They're taught God will protect them and to have faith in God's plan. And that is a horribly dangerous lesson that teaches (young) people to be naive and ignore their human intuition and sense of self preservation.
You're right. Missionary work is for "adults" without fully developed brains to do the dangerous and unpleasant work of building the religion. Just like in War, these immature adults are used because they are naive and without other responsibilities. If they get murdered it's sad but not a great loss for their church or country.
I hope more young people will see how they are merely pawns in powerful men's games.
Don't watch an anti-religion movie or pro-critical thinking movie only to be mad at other cogs of the machine.
You have to take your concerns up with the people who are in control; the church, the politicians, the CEOs. We have a right to demand respect.
What's missed here is that an early conversation among the three touched on the so-called near death experience (NDE), and the question of whether an NDE is merely a hallucination the brain manufactures as death becomes imminent. My interpretation of the movie's end is that Sister Paxton did die from the stab wound Mr. Reed inflicted and had an NDE: where Sister Barnes came back to life to finish off Mr. Reed before he could finish off Sister P and that her subsequent escape from the house was part of the NDE, symbolized by the hallucinatory butterfly briefly seen on her finger. Her declaration of faith toward the end, as she prays no matter if it helps or not, allows her to die free from the house and in the clear light of day in a beautiful, snowy (symbol of purity) landscape. Religion (praying) may have given her some peace, but science (NDE phenomena) may have been what truly gave her peace.
As a former missionary I can only say, you'ld be surprised what some missionaries do and converse about.
Ok, maybe I missed something, but at the end of the movie, the girl is in the field and sees the butterfly. The filmmaker shows two perspectives. In only one perspective is the butterfly shown, from the girl's perspective. I took that as the filmmaker saying belief is relative. The girl wanted to continue believing, and on the verge of death, hallucinates (for lack of a better word) the butterfly.
Great review. I watched it today and thoroughly enjoyed it. My take on the ending was that her pray was answered by her friend finding the strength to end him. However, as she said she would like to come back as a butterfly to let the person know it was her, that she had in fact died.
"Religion is regarded by the common people as true, by the wise as false, and by rulers as useful."
- Seneca
@@bphifer yo if ur ever feeling down u should listen to the Quran
@@hasnainrana6416 He is wise. So he knows it is false
@@spliffzombonie lol sure buddy whatever helps u sleep at night….just remember one day you’ll die ….I would rather live my life as if there is a god and die to find out there isn't, than live my life as if there isn't and die to find out there is.
@@hasnainrana6416 I used to think that way buddy. You're free to believe whatever you want as long as it gives you peace. Just don't shove your belief on someone else. And one more thing, your whole belief, the last thing you said, is just based on fear. You want to believe because you fear of finding out an actual god when you die. I don't like that. I like to live, love people, and preserve my morals regardless if there is a reward at the end. Regardless if there is a god or not. Regardless if I get to live forever or not. Of course, this is not for everyone.
@@spliffzombonie i agree with wht u said in the beginning. I disagree with what u said abt my whole belief being based on fear, in reality my belief is based on not just fear but HOPE. Also fear isn't a bad thing, fear drives pple out of their comfort zone, also fear can push pple away from doing bad things and can drive pple to do good things. About what u said at the end, that's great but IMO it's better to preserve ur morals and love people with a belief in God than without, cuz belief in God adds a layer of depth to everything. but hey believe what u wanna believe, I'm not trynna debate u... much love, stay healthy!
Hugh Grant had me in awe the entire movie!!! I thoroughly enjoyed this film. The ending was maybe a little too in the nose or idk like “in the end faith prevails” vibe but i guess it could also be perfect considering how sister P was clever and managed to deconstruct her faith and still was able to push through because of it? Idk if any of this makes sense lol but overall i really liked this movie
I am shocked Paxton didn’t close the hidden door after she stabbed him. That would have been the smart thing to do.
I think unfortunately she died at the end and she’s having anoxia hallucinations. How are you gonna have a butterfly like that in that weather.
I didn't even think about the weather, you're right!
In watching this (amazing and I totally recommend it if you can handle a dialogue heavy first act) movie, I took the thesis to be that control isn’t the true religion, EMPATHY is. Sister P explains that the point of prayer isn’t to effect real change - even the Bible
has a parable about not expecting prayer to save you when you haven’t taken any action. The true point of prayer is knowing someone cares enough to pray for you. That’s the miracle. And when Sister B wakes up, that’s the true miracle in the movie - just as Hugh Grant said she’d do.
The point is that god or the universe or whatever is showing Hugh’s character that he doesn’t truly have control. He believes control is the point of religion. But those who pay attention can see that the true through line through every iteration of the religion is empathy and love and caring. Even after trying to kill him Sister P shows empathy to HG’s character and prays for him. She has done everything she can, taken every action she can to fight his evil and at the end all she can do is pray. And her prayer is answered with a Lazarinthian miracle.
I’m ex LDS and not very religious but I thought this movie was AMAZING. I may not have firm religious beliefs, but I love the respect and care they showed at the end - proving that for all Hugh’s debating and trying to prove he’s a man dreaming he’s a butterfly…in the end we are all just butterflies. The movie firmly commits to the idea of an afterlife in Sister B’s reincarnation as a butterfly. Honestly I want to watch this movie again because there were so many details - even down to how each sister carried her bike up the stairs to foreshadow who would survive. It’s truly a well-made super tight script where everything is foreshadowed and everything comes back around.
Lol sorry for writing a book on here. You should do another video analysis on this one it was fascinating and I’m glad I found your channel
@@cosa_oscura or, she is dying on the floor, and having a hallucination because of the blood loss and she never left the floor.
So there was no miracle, she just hallucinated that in her moment of dying, snow outside, everything white and the butterfly….
The fact that you pointed out that this movie plays no psychological tricks on the viewer is all the spot analysis I needed.
It shows how deep you watched it.
@@CartographerOfChaos Well that’s not exactly what I said lol but thanks for watching.
Stumbled across your video and 2mins in I can already tell your video’s gonna be great. Keep making content, I like your style :)
@@maxmumridefan Thank you bro!!
I like how the theme of iteration continues through the end credits. What I thought was "Fade Into You" by Mazzy Star was a cover of "Knockin' on Heaven's Door".
Religion makes people naive and easy to control.
The "miracle" ending was purposely ambigious. The logical interpretation is Barnes didn't die initially, she passed out and was the brink of dying, and had one last gasp effort to stop Reed. And the butterfly at the end was just a butterfly (they saw it flying around earlier looking for a way out, when she broke out it escaped with her). It's perfectly reasonable explanation without adding a supernatural/magical explanation. The religious/spritual interpretation is Barnes died & was resurrected and the butterfly was her spirit. This addresses a major issue with religious belief where people add meaning to things that don't need them and fool themselves. and it's the perfect compliment to the 1st half of the movie which is about how scammers can fool people into believing whatever they want, whether about religion or blueberry pies
I thought it was interesting at the very end where it flashed suddenly and the butterfly was gone, maybe supporting the "simulation hypothesis" talked about earlier in the film. Another interesting fact is in the credits is a cover song of Bob Dylan's knocking on heavens door, which I think is a nod to the reiterations of the board games and music also mentioned earlier in the movie
2 female missionaries wouldn't go into a nans house without someone with them.
Remember, it wasn’t the fact that they needed another adult
They actually specifically needed another woman present
@@joelsnyder5866 I mean a woman is an adult lol but regardless, the specification doesn’t actually change literally anything. Either way he still lied to get them to come inside.
This was a great break down. I agree with the theme of belief and disbelief down to the last scene. Remember butterfly also symbolizes transformation which is a good call back to Sister Paxston.
The idea that she died in the basement does make the most sense in the context of belief and not following the evidence. If you believe that her friend survived what was done to her, you are making a massive jump considering how grounded and world is. It plays with this concept with the prophet and sets it up with the prophets speech.
I disagree because Sister Paxton wasn't praying for release from the basement her prayer was of thanks, and praying for others up to the very end. Right before Mr. Reed goes to stab her in the neck. She wasn't praying for help to get out. So that wouldn't really make sense about how if Sister Barnes survived long enough to kill Mr. Reed. They also very clearly used foreshadowing regarding the piece of wood with nails.
The implant being removed and doing what he did to the vein or artery would kill you. Though that also could have slowed her death down by a little bit too, but I am guessing from the throat cut, no way she lived more than maybe 15 minutes.
I wonder how the Mormon church feels about this . movie
@@Dra3000 I can hazard a guess lol
@@Dra3000 probably neutral, won’t be the first time there’s been a film featuring Mormons and it won’t be the last 😂
Most lds people I know that's seen it have really liked it
In response to this movie the LDS church put out a formal statement that they're displeased with it, saying that it suggests they promote violence against women
Man I completely interpreted the ending differently. I think that Mr. Reed actually stabs her in the neck when she’s praying and everything after was a hallucination. I thought this because earlier in the movie when they were talking about near death experiences it’s said that one will experience (see/feel) miracles as they pass on. So when she saw sister Barnes miraculously get up just in time , or that she suddenly has the strength to get up and climb out, or all of a sudden it’s completely beautiful outside when moments before it was a massive storm I think that was all in her mind and finally the miracle butterfly that disappeared in the next shot gave her the peace and in the very last shot you see her face has almost a realization
Reed ripped off the sister's tendons when he was reaching for the 'chip'. It is impossible to hold and hit someone without tendons, she was very dead. It's either a miracle or a hallucination.
That is no proving one way or the other that's the point of faith you ether have it or you don't
True but why do we need to have faith? We don't operate on that system of doing things anywhere else in life. Everywhere else we demand evidence and proof of something.
@@Dr.Beetlejuice110 But you can't get proof without death, or truly knowing what lies after it. So that separates faith from other things that can be rationalized in those terms.
@Dr.Beetlejuice110 according to the Bible "faith is the assured expectation of things hoped for the evidence of things not seen". So actually it is not blind, it is based on "assured expectation" and "evidence". We have this sort of faith all the time in everyday things. For example, when you drive you have faith when you step on the brake the car will stop. Do you 100% know this will actually happen? No you don't. In fact there is a chance they fail and it might not. But you have the assured expectation it will because every other time the brakes worked so based on that evidence and assurance you stake your life on the fact next time they will also work. But you can't technically know. That's what faith is.
The opening also establishes that religion is another form of marketing, and like marketing, it doesn't mean that it's right or wrong. It's that its main concern is selling something and not being right (morally or factually).
Can anyone tell me why after stabbing Mr. reed and making her way to his office, she goes back into the dungeon? Take the time to barricade the office door, but goes down there where she knows there are tunnels.
She was trying to get out by going through the tunnels. But she should have just found the front door timer.
This movie is well wrotten in general, but a big reason is because it isn't particularly interested in telling you what you have to think about its themes and ideas, regardless of the opinions of those making it. Not only is that just good writing practics in gsneral (which more storytellers today meed to follow than currently do), it shows that they're self aware enough to apply their own ideas to themselves. The story is clearly questions blind faith, but it also questions the antagonist as well. For or against faith in any religious system or spiritual practice isn't the point. The point is that whether you are religious/spiritual or not, regardless of what you do or don't believe, you should always be guided by critical thinking (Sister Barnes and by the end, Sister Paxton) and both reject blind faith (Sister Paxton at the beginning) and guard against motivated reasoning to justify your beliefs and actions (Mr. Reed).
I think Barnes coming back was real, but the butterfly was a hallucination (whether she was dying or it was just a near-death experience I don't know).
Also, I think there was one more theme you missed: belief vs. action. We were led to believe that Barnes was the one who thought critically, and Paxton was the blind follower, based on how they acted.
But, that wasn't entirely true. Barnes thought critically, but for better or worse she still believed.
Paxton knowing about that study at the end meant she'd already done her research too, and I think the implication was she already thought her religion was a crock. She just didn't care. She wanted the community.
@@SerpenThrope me personally I thought it was just showing that it’s nicer for her to believe that her friend is in a better place and she imagines that whole situation but in reality it’s not there. But it’s real to her
The film does not prove anything, it allows people thing about religion from two different perspectives. Either you believe or disbelieve and why?
Good review but one correction- theyre not seeking to discuss The Bible, theyre seeking to discuss the Book of Mormon. Crucial distinction.
Man created religions as interpretations of a situation that is incredibly nuanced and evocative, that is very fair to say - but there's also a vast arrogance of atheism that basically claims we are the center of the universe which is incredibly safe to say we're not. I can appreciate the idea that our consciousness and intelligence were created or creative-chaosed by a source that is beyond capable in ways we cannot comprehend. As humans, we're incredibly unusual on this planet as well, almost objectively god-like in comparison to much of this ecosystem. Capable of leaving language and information that can last over 12,000+ years for distant generations now to interpret and decipher (e.g. the Gobekli Tepe site).
The movie doesn't prove anything one way or the other and that's kind of the point
I mean it’s proved a lot of things for example praying doesn’t work, the biggest religion is control,
I think she could escape at the end cuz Mr. Reed died indeed, but she died outside the house so she was hallucinating in the end that's why 'knocking on heaven's door' plays in the credits scene
NO movie has ever proved anythign about anything that wasn't a movie.
Your question doesn't really make sense because one doesn't have to prove religion is fake, rather than any religion has to prove it is right, which they are uncapable of doing.
This movie is so unsettling I've been watching videos to try to grapple with the premise and themes. I recommend it for sure. Good review.
I wonder what would have happened if they just let him yap for the rest of the night because I feel like he could’ve gone on. Like just keep debating
If she escaped the house, how did she know the model of the house had a secret key?
I think it was all in her head while she was dying on the floor.
The snow outside was the white light she was drawn to and what butterfly flies in winter?
But great movie, great scenery and 3 great actors, will watch it again and probably again❤
Easy question no. Idk how many times it's said he does NOT interfere. If he did believe wouldn't be in faith. It's real simple why no matter what you go through it's a blink compared to eternity. This movie really doesn't cause the questions it believes it does. Nicest way to say this if you need proof of your faith then you don't have it. Guys a lunatic simple as. Still decent movie.
Humanity has conquered death.
By inventing religion,wich reveals to us that we live even when we die.
We all will survive death😮.
The last scene I believe was a hallucination.
She never escaped the house.
The escape and butterfly scenes was the nervous system trying to help her stay calm.
To slow down bleeding to give her a chance to survive.
She bled out inside the house.
I don’t think Mr reed lived either.
I think she died and imagined that happening before she died. Her phone had no signal once outside and butterflies can’t survive in a snowstorm or winter.
One thing that bugs me after she escapes is that her phone still shows no service. There has to be a reason for showing this. Also, if you go with the theory that she died in the basement, how would she know about the model of the house? She never saw it until she escaped the basement after being stabbed. The butterfly on her finger could have been a hallucination while dying.
Wouldn’t she have seen it on the desk before she blocked the door
She saw the model before being stabbed.
I was high as a kite when I watched this, so I interpreted the butterfly vanishing at the end as a glitch in the simulation.
I think you missed one small aspect about Paxton at the end.
When she finds freedom, she sees the world as it is (like a pinhole image) for a brief moment, and then aligns herself to that perspective.
On top of the dialogue, the interplay of the light and the dark and angles is a feast for the eyes
Im a christian and my religion is bible Baptist Church here in Philippines🇵🇭 we do believe in death burial and resurrection of jesus christ this is what we believe and we save in death in hell. Religion can not be save to our sin but Local church like religion can be our learning more about jesus christ our authority in church is not a pastor, or elder but what God tells us the king james kjv 16 can explain more because this is the only bible we do believe and read.
The bible is full of contradictions especially the king James version lol
Great video and keep it up. One thing i would add is that the butterfly at the end was in her mind not real. One scene its there and then it's not. Did like her friend saving her in the end but hey....good movie with one minor flaw!
By choosing to believe in "the real" ending of the film, that she survived and escaped, you are falling into the same trap Mr. Reed laid out for the missionaries who themselves were trying to figure out what "the truth" was from what Mr. Reed was telling them.
The message the film is that this is a false choice, just like the two doors Mr. Reed presents to the missionaries, choosing to believe or not believe leads into the same trap because both believing and not believing the story are themselves beliefs, because the true answer is fundamentally unknowable, just like how religions are all stories told by people about a shared reality that is fundamentally unknowable, despite our constant search for answers that don't exist. All religions are true and false at the same time, choosing to believe one over another as "the truth", or even choosing to believe that they are all lies, is the trap. We fundamentally cannot know the true nature of reality, but choosing to believe in one version of reality despite proof is just part of being human, reliably falling into the trap is a fundamental part of the human experience.
both protagonists die at the end of the film, the snow at the end symbolises the "clouds" and sister barnes coming back was most likely paxton's brain justifying the end of her life by killing mr reed. The butterfly at the very end of the film is a call back to the butterfly theory because paxton is both dead and reincarnated as a butterfly which is why it's not on her finger in the last clip of the film. pretty cool ending but hard to pick up if you're not over-analysing lol
The irony of this film is how from an athiest perspective there is no good or bad people in it so therefore where is the suspense if either the girls or the man dies?
Ok before I say anything this is actually one of the better reviews I’ve seen, so props to you.
It’s generally not a good idea to blindly follow anything just for the sake of following that thing. Now I’m not a Mormon, so I won’t speak on the Book of Mormon, but I *am* a Christian. So I can speak on the validity of the Bible.
Like I said before, it’s important to not just blindly follow anything, and have critical thinking. But I don’t think this movie has the answer to if religion is real or fake with just the elements it tries to touch on. Many people have been drawn to Christ as well as wandered away, using critical thinking. So it’s really a matter of perspectives. Asking questions is important, but I believe if you ask enough questions it will always lead the inquirer back to God. This has happened with me.
In essence, if critical thinking, (in this terminology) is used to draw people away from religion, then even more so, when willing to question themselves as well as their topic, critical thinking draws you back to God in full circle. Because all He wants to do is welcome you back to Him. Christianity is more so a relationship with Christ than a religion, but it holds up when even pinned against other religions. When we really start to question each other’s stances. Because the main difference is, we rest upon Christ’s finish work on the cross, and not hoping to be good enough. Because we never will be and that’s the point of grace.
Following God doesn’t take away critical thinking, it actually enhances it if we if we dare ask that question.
Anyway, just some deep thought. Sorry for the rant. I actually love A24 and horror so the vibe of this movie actually hits different. Actors did a fantastic job too.
You are brainwashed into your religion, one of the mindless slaves in the movie.
Critical thinking will not lead to believe in one religion, maybe into thinking there must be a first mover.
But it cannot lead you to any god, there is zero evidence for any of the 3000 gods made up by men.
Maybe watch the movie again?
I’m confused as to why Sister Paxton was so openly discussing reincarnation and then having that faith supposedly confirmed when it goes against her actual religion that she is a part of. As far as I know Mormons reject the idea of reincarnation.
And Reed not noticing that cost him his life too. Or he thought he could control her because of her confusion about her own faith.
I feel the movie was about disbelief and believe but in the end it was about how existence/reality is mystery.
I don't think the butterfly part was accurate because it didn't really land on the finger, but more on the fatty part of the palm. That could be the Reed himself.
Why would we assume the girls are "blindly" following their faith?
@@madrush24 Context clues
The cinematography tho
I like to think that Paxton actually died when Reed crawled to her and then stabbed her in the neck and the ending of her being saved by Barnes was just a hallucination Paxton’s brain came up with in her final breaths
Those Jeffrey Dahmer glasses makes ANY villain look scary....
nothing is real . we just have the way things are and the way things appear to us
Consider that the ending was meant to be intentionally ambiguous, because as with the general motif from the film, when left with unknowns it becomes easier to believe whatever makes you feel comfortable. Create your own explanation as to what the ending really meant. For me, I think the fact that the butterfly did not fly away but rather disappeared tells me that sister Paxton had been having a near-death hallucination and Barnes had never woken up; She had died, and so did both herself and Mr. Read. But, like I said, interpret it anyway you like. That's what I think makes the ending brilliant.
That A24 on the gate is not in the actual film unless you have the deleted scenes, which if you do, may we see what ended up on the cutting room floor? Some scenes jumped too quickly, I thought.
I bet the blueberry pie was secretly keegan Michael Key
This does sound like a very intriguing and thought-provoking movie. Two things that just ring unrealistic to me; 1) That they would enter the house with the wife site unseen even if there is the scent of blueberry pie, and 2) That they would use the term magic underwear since it is a very derogatory term for what to them is very sacred religious clothing.
I don't think butterfly was sister Barn!
it was sister Paxton hallucinating in her last moments, she was the one who wanted to be back as a butterfly not sister Barn!
Butterfly disappeared, it wasn't there neither she was.
remember when they talked sister Barn talking about having near death experience and hallucinations, that conversation confirms the ending,
Sister Barn never saved her.
The one problem I have with the film is he says that the one true religion is control and that they allow him to do those things to them. However, they did try leaving and he kept them their because of the locked door. That kind of shoots his theory in the foot a little. Even though I do agree with most of his premise that people a sheep to he herded. It would have been better if they had did everything without trying to leave, but I understand it for plot purposes.
I haven't seen Heretic yet. But I intend to soon. I kinda hate the ad for it, but I think it's brilliant. I hate it because it sounds like a Hallmark type deal or an ad for a church. That's precisely why it's brilliant. Then that joke thing comes in so slick and oops, this guy is bad news and that's all I know and want to know until I see it. Oh I did watch 2 minutes of the review and sensed spoilers, will watch the rest after I've seen the movie.
I enjoyed the part where one of the girls complimented mr Reed on being more dedicated to studying the book of Mormon than they were. As an ex Christian I always found it fascinating that you will run into atheists who have more knowledge of the Bible and the history of it than most Christians. I guess it's not surprising though, those atheists also tend to be ex Christians who had unresolved questions who did enough research into their ideology to convince them that their religious beliefs weren't inerrant facts
'The first religion started when the first conman met the first fool'. Mark Twain.
I really think she died in the basement. Everything else was her brain making up fantastical things, like what was referred to during Taco Bell dialogue
Movie got a lot wrong about the ancient Egyptian religion, Osiris was only resurrected, nothing else, but Isis had to put him back together, she only found 13 of the 14 pieces of his body
Very nice movie…. I think she died, I was trying to make sense of the cellphone on the ground that fell when she jumped out of the window. Did he purposely put the bicycle key in her coat? it’s a movie that is really about control. Control is the number one religion?
Great review❤❤❤❤
Appreciate it!! 🙂
I find the stairs bike scenes odd, you would push the bikes up and down the steps not carry them.
It's a good movie based on facts pertaining to religious mythology.
Will it change the minds of the brainwashed? Nope. They will continue pretending because it makes them feel comfortable. 😳
Uummm, i hate to be a stickler, but was there really enough time for her to be reincarnated into a caterpillar, build a cocoon, and then become a butterfly
LMAO good point
Maybe Paxton never made it out of the basement. The butterfly in winter storm.
This movie will only strengthen what you already believe, i think. Which is fine...This movie isnt try8ing to do either...I think its trying to test yourself and what YOU believe.... Or it could just be a movie. Its all of those and none.
As soon as they realized the blueberry pie was fake, they should have searched for a weapon and stayed near the front door until help arrived or taken more drastic action, like confronting the old man directly to force him to open the door.
Regarding the movie as a whole, I found the religious discussions to be quite superficial. Any well-read atheist could cover the same points raised by the old man in about ten minutes of conversation. For more thought-provoking religious debates, Sunset Limited offers a far superior experience.
I found the film intriguing and engaging on the psychological horror front until the ending, which left me disappointed. I felt the movie explored quite a few things, but nothing extremely well. 7/10 for me.
9:06 Naw you good lol, we’re critical thinkers and can follow along, i can understand your points as clear as day 👍🏾
Ok another point, do you think that he heard the conversation about the magic underpants ? Cause why would that trigger him to doing that to Barnes
Yeah, he definitely overheard them talking using the speaker device he used to talk to them from upstairs. He killed her because he knew she was plotting to kill him. She was proving herself to difficult to be controlled, so he literally cut his loses.
This one of the best movie ive seen in a while. It was thought provoking, unsettling but then again for someone who also spiritual I just want to know the truth and it more excites in a good way rather than worries me about the killing or so.
The Crypt of Dendera in Egypt also resembles to the 2 stairways leading to the same place...a crypt used for rituals symbolic of the resurrection of Osiris and Horus...an initiatory rite...possibly similar to Mithraic cults as well
I thought it proved that Faith is a belief in what cannot be solved with facts or science.
By proxi, the film proves Religion to be true.
This review was beautifully crafted. I am headed back to the movies to see it again. I love a movie that can be used as a conversational piece.
@@huneydeelight Thank you, I am looking forward to seeing it again as well!
I watched this one twice. I noticed so much more on the second watch! It's one of the best movies I've seen this year.
I loved this movie, but I agree man, the ending infuriated me. WHY after all of the movie pointing to logic and reason, would the most UNREASONABLE of all things happen in the end!? Just absolutely stupid to me.
what if they stayed in the first room and wait till morning next day for the timer or till the church elder knocks