Plaid Doors Disappoint Sandy | Tesla Plaid Teardown
ฝัง
- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 20 ก.พ. 2022
- Sandy and Ben take a look at the Plaid doors.
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Outro:
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#Tesla #Teardown #Plaid - บันเทิง
Ben has really grown as a speaker. You can see how his confidence has increased making him part of this program shows leadership and employees improvement is important
Talking to a camera isn't easy , but can be self thought indeed , he's doing great 👍
A lot more to designing and building a vehicle than I thought.....makes me appreciate what the manufacturing process is...
Haha! Yeah who would have thought a car would be so complicated????
Most assembly lines run at 50 to 60 seconds per process. building 800 to 1,000 cars per day.
that door is designed that way to keep the side strong during an impact.
Thanks sandy for finally acknowledging the buyers of bumper stickers. I thought about them every time you mentioned about Sabic
As one of those buyers, *Thanks Sandy!* 👍🤓
he acknowledged us bumper sticker buyers in a prior video also.
I hope he continues every time he mentions sabic
He only did it because people got angry. He did not do it because he appreciates it. The only true appreciation went to Sabic. I will never ever support them again!
Don’t forget they ‘promised’ to send parts to bumper sticker buyers…I heard buy in this episode.
As an automotive technician who has to fix these after the fact, the modular doors are actually a much bigger nightmare than the old style. Reason being that the engineers who design this stuff never think about what happens when it fails, because it does always fail eventually. They will put 2 tiny holes in the door carrier to detach the glass from the regulator. Problem is that, when you are replacing the window regulator or motor, it’s because they are broken and you can’t move the window. Because you can’t remove the door carrier and there is no other way to get access to anything in the door, it becomes a shit show very quickly. The “stick build” doors are actually much easier to service after the fact. I understand that the modular door may be easier to build in the factory, but vehicle manufacturers really need to consider vehicle serviceability too.
Do you think that a modular can be made to make that easier?
I've only ever replaced a window motor once, every other time (estimated 50) it has been the cables in the regulator. The cables can be cut in this case.
Vehicle manufacturers do not care about serviceability. The dealership looks after that.
You are correct, serviceability is now a lower priority.
One reason is the disposable, planned obsolesence nature of consumer goods. (Why vehicles that used to be capital goods became disposable consumer goods is another conversation.)
The second reason is that the reliability of the motor/regulator has improved so much that it outlasts the rest of the car.
But everything breaks down eventually, so some serviceability should still be considered.
@@bohicajohnson7203 Tesla runs their own dealerships & service centers though
This looks pretty much exactly like my 2017 Model S 75D driver door. I had a hell of a time getting access to the door handle module to replace the gear that extends the handle. Luckily the module was a Gen3, so no wire/microswitch issues. I also had to dig into the rear door when that regulator failed (twice) and wouldnt go all the way up (during monsoon season no less). A Tesla Ranger came out and replaced the regulators on both rear doors. Thankfully the regulators all failed in the warranty period. I am out of warranty now, so I had to fix the gear myself or pay for it. Thanks to Electrified Garage for their videos on how to do it.
From what you are saying I would assume this part is near original to your version and earlier and didn’t get upgraded it’s the new edition?
Trade!
5 year old windows taking a shit? Tesla quality strikes again
@@mattbrew11 To be fair, there really isn't a car company that makes things without any errors, rather have a window fail after 5 years than a car caching fire though, so it's still in the minor errors.
@@-JustHuman- u say that like teslas dont burn
Do you think that since the S and X are low volume, Tesla decided that they can live with it rather than building the doors like the 3 and Y? I didn't know that so much can go into just assembling a door. Thanks Ben and Sandy for the in-depth analysis.
As we all know, the Model S, outside of performance, has not been updated much since 2012 model. It makes sense that they have a new process for the high-volume Y & 3 which also share components. And though all your points are correct and highly valid, these are not high-priority in a low-volume vehicle. Not yet anyway. Just my humble, non-expert opinion.
This is actually the same door design from the 2012 Model S they haven't changed much here. 21:49 I think it was less to do with weight and more to do with retro fitting to the original door track from 2012 for the double pane glass which is only in the front doors of the Plaid.
Didn't they say that this was a rear door?
@@Clearphish No, it's a front door.
The sticker on the door panel says (LF) Left Front, but at 23:45 sandy says this is a back window. I am not sure why they would not have had the complete assembly, being door and glass when doing their talk. Probably just sandy misspeaking again.
@@sammaimas155 Listening to this section, I think he was referring to the earlier Plaid video where he complained about the rear seat comfort compared to the front seat.
@@sammaimas155 it was the front door, he just misspoke
It must be a scene on Sandy’s face when Ben has to unscrew so many screws to remove the cover 😂
Engineer here...you've just caught a legacy product that hasn't been updated to the newest design language. A door update wasn't in the budget this go around. I'm sure they understand the benefits and will get to it as soon as the opportunity presents itself.
As with every product, there's always cost-slashing somewhere. Otherwise prices for all products would be outrageous.
Manufacturing Engineer / Quality Program Manager here. Cost / benefit analysis by Industrial Engineering and Finance won after review of limited savings on current projected volume. Design change funding was not approved.
Bean counter here.... we rules! Now all engineers and CEO can go to hell!
This is why only stupid people buy Plaids. $130,000 car and no budget to improve the car. Why Taycan is the better car, it's built wonderfully, it's truly a better car aside from a 0-60 "look at me" time.
@InternetDude Uh, there was just a huge fire on a ship hauling Taycans, it looks like a battery fire started it and destroyed all of the vehicles on the ship. From what I've heard there may be an issue with their 800v charging system overcharging batteries. Not exactly a sterling example at the moment.
You are welcome! I ordered a signed bumper sticker. Hopefully, it'll keep a few decades so I can display it in orbit!
I assume that Tesla didn't want to change the design and tooling for a low volume vehicle.
Well, things like this may make it a low volume vehicle, the demand for more is there.
I wonder if theres no chance the door could have been two pieces and welded after the cables were put inside?
@@markgritzan2841 yeah lol the average Plaid buyer is totally going to be like "you know what, this door makes the workers take too long to assemble. it's a dealbreaker."
Lol….. they could have simply used the model3 or y modules it’s. It that hard!!!!!
@@materia79 since the door has to be painted before assembly that wouldn't be an option.
Hi at Munro. It takes me about 30 minutes to remove and install a window regulator like the Model S. So I'm guessing about the same amount of time to fill that door with hardware and glass. That modular design would cut 2/3 of that time.
Having been in the Auto Body racket for 26 years the nightmare you presented is so typical, and so hated, having to re align windows, change track felt, remove windows, regulators, locks was a lesson in Four Word vocabulary then you had to wipe everything down to get the blood off! No Excuse Tesla!
This right here sums it all up lmao! im done
The door is perfectly fine. Nothing in this world is perfect
The Model S was designed a decade ago. This is probably the same door they’ve used all along. I’d expect it to be made modular when they do a major redesign of the entire car, though given all the other stuff they are currently working on, it could be a while.
@@cybrtnk What have you summed-up?
@@johnrosner8964 perfectly fine for the customer but is a nightmare in production.
Man, so many flashbacks to fixing two of my '97 Accord power windows. Thanks for the memories, guys.
If you've ever rebuilt a square body Chevy door, you know Sandy is right here.
One of the most difficult and frustrating experiences is working on a square-body door with internal support brackets requiring a large amount of specialized maneuvers (and a bit of praying) to get the pieces reassembled. I'd rather pull a motor than try and rebuild a square body Chevy door.
It's astonishing the industry still creates these metal-pocket doors.
They still do it that way "because that's how you build doors"; pure inertia, inflexibility and mental rigidness. Just like the car industry wanted to keep on building petroleum gassers, and would have until the end of time (or end of humanity, whichever comes first) if we'd only let them.
You see it with car manufacturers sticking to joining stamped metal pieces for their chassis and bodies "because that's how you build cars", or well, it's how we've built them since what, the 1950s? Long enough so that generations of product designers have grown up knowing this tech and gotten mired in it; meanwhile Tesla is transitioning towards large metal castings in critical places instead, while the rest of the industry pooh-poohs that idea by and large except for a few Chinese manufacturers and one other.
In the west, only Volvo Cars has made moves to start using megacastings for future models to my knowledge, but this may be only because they're majority owned by Geely. :P There's inherent rigidity and inflexibility all over the established car industry - hell, like there is in any industry really. It's a human fallacy; it's system wide in our civilization and we're the cause of it. Eastman-Kodak wiped themselves out as a major corporation SEEING the digital photography revolution coming towards them, and even participated in it - they held major digital sensor patents and other IP, and still they managed to kill themselves. Absolutely fantastic, isn't it? ;)
Oh no - I was going to take on the door rebuilds on my 1980. This gives me pause. ☹️
@@SolveFixBuild Just wait until you replace the window gaskets. Lots of hand--applied silicone glue between floppy rubber strips and metal.
I have nightmares. Do yourself a favor and pull the door fully off the car. It will help. Don't get me wrong... it can be done. Just *REALLY* fiddly.
Those corner air vents have to be inserted "sideways / externally", and hooked through the window hole at the top. Fed around internal support brackets, then rotated vertically. Then you "flex" the rigid metal channel and gently pry the door pocket open a bit to get it near it's final position. THEN you "clamp" the triangular metal frame into the corner, tuck in the rubber gaskets, and screw it down.
I've got a 4X4 Blazer with an electric window on the tailgate. It's working still, but goes up and down incredibly slow. It will make a door job seem so easy a caveman could do it.
@@knutjob3835 spray a bunch of silicone spray down the window tracks. If you think you have sprayed enough, spray a little more. Once you have enough silicone in the tracks the window will glide up and down again....... usually.
Wow !!! Great video and presentation guys . Thanks for taking the guts out of the door , I was curious as hell how all that stuff fits in there . Sure would be interesting to see how they put one of these doors together at the factory . Kind of makes you wonder , how difficult it would be to replace any parts in the door , electric motor , glass etc .
Glad you enjoyed it
I made the assumption they put the speaker in last. Then it would seem easy to do all that assembly through the big speaker hole.
But that's just how I'd do it. Maybe I'm not understanding something.
The idea that so much goes into something I thought was as simple as a car door is simply mind blowing. Thanks Sandy and Ben.
Also think of all the thought and planning that all mfgs have to do to source all these parts, get everything and all suppliers to work together, make sure that the door will work with the body itself and then all the logistics to make sure all these parts show up on the assembly line all at the right time, etc. Its simply amazing how high the quality is on vehicles, and this goes for all manufacturers. These are extremely complicated products and I think it's great you're showing the common citizen just a taste of the thought and effort that went into getting them a vehicle
After working 13 years on the assembly line at Jeep, all I can only say about that window assembly is it gets easier as you do more of them. But just watch quality control go down the tube when that guy takes off work. Because no one else can keep up with the line doing it. They will end up having to put 2 people on the job to cover him.
i assume the plaid door is just a holdover from 2012 and the focus was on the motors and battery to distinguish the plaid. the production is so low that it probably wasn't worth redoing the door design.
VW Jettas "evolved" from the stick built doors to the modular in the late 90's. Recall "fixes" was the motivator. I was running an independent shop at the time and saw the changes as the windows would fail just days out of warranty - for several model years! The modular doors cut our labor by 75% and we got to pass that along to the customer. At the "end' we even offered a program to fix as you wait for under an hour. To paraphrase Shakespeare - if I'm cut on a window repair with rounded edges, do I still not bleed?
Are you talking about Mk4 Golf and Jettas ? I think I've opened door cards on those and from memory, they still had the same old design.
My e46 BMW is also the same and is a complete PITA to do anything in there.
@@trizvanov Golf evolved into modular door design in 1997 with the MkIV. Audi went the same route in 1994.
@@GTO33 I've had a MkIV Jetta and a Golf-based Audi A3 of the same era.
I could've sworn the front doors don't have those large openings. My memory must've been fading...
After the car is completely e-coated and painted, Honda's assembly lines remove the doors and they go upstairs to the door assembly line and when the doors are completed with all parts the same door go back to the original car they came off in the first place. That way the doors window assembly is not completed vertically as would need to happen on the actual car assembly line.
My thoughts, I know that from Audi: Doors are seperated from their body, assembled and brought back to the line at a very late point in the process. As an added benefit, this way the doors are not in the way during final assembly. No way, these doors are assembled on the car!
Same with assembly lines at BMW.
yeah, and Honda usually (or always?) uses the old classic Design. There has to be a reason for it. I personally fixed the "better" designed modular vw doors, because they always had leaking issues. go figure..
Looking forward to putting my signed Munro bumper sticker on the dash of my Cybertruck...
Ben's presentation was well done. Thank you Ben.
That guy 14:28 Don't ever come Infront of Munro. 🤣🤣
Haha that gave me a chuckle too
Had a '96 Grand Marquis which had 2 different window lift failures. Bought new window regulators, but decided it was just too much trouble to try and tear the door apart to install them. Ended up giving the car away to a mechanic as a commute car, after a freeze plug on the back of the block failed, requiring the trans to be pulled to replace it. Looking forward to my next car, which will be a BEV, hopefully with modular window lift assemblies.
45 min assembly I wish my 1987 Alfa Romeo Spider was that easy. It's an all day project.
I would imagine the folks at Tesla are watching this and will heed your advice - nice work
I agree with what what Sandy has said, but with a caveat. For the Model S I do not believe line speed and the effect the door design has on it is that important based on the volume of that vehicle. You are just not making that many Model S vehicles every month, so line speed is a lower priority than it is on Model 3 and Model Y. For Tesla right now, they need to be focusing their resources on the most important things, and on the Model S there were a lot of things higher on the engineering priority list than the line speed of putting the door together. That's a running change they can make any time once the critical stuff is all dialed in.
OMG - As an engineer and former union worker from Michigan I am lost to see what quality and cost advantages Tesla saw in using separate parts versus sub-assembly one-piece door inserts. The only thing I can see is the engineers working on the door design got lazy and did not take into account assembly line time. Just think of the downtime if the person that sub assembles this door nightmare calls out sick at the last minute. What person can jump right in and take over?
I'm betting this is essentially a continuation of the outdated nine year old 2012 Model S door design. It's too bad because they obviously discovered the benefits of an insert with the Y. This looks like a nightmare for line workers.
@@GabeJE
It looks like "no worse than other manufacturers" for line workers.
As mentioned elsewhere, it's probably a common skin from the older design, low volume, sunk cost in machinery?
@@GabeJE I did some research online and it appears this same Plaid design is still used on S and similar X design. It also appears some Model 3's with sub assemble one-piece doors are rattling due to loose wire harness rubbing against the doors inside trim panel. An easy fix is taking off the door panel and using molding tape to affix the loose wire harness to the inside trim panel or adding insulation to the trim panel.
Team leader. Happens all the time.
Two steps forward, one step back I guess.
Surprising to see, but glad you covered it.
What Sandy says about this door is very clear to this non engineer. And to hear that Sandy's experience of his ideas being rejected by the Ford was very surprising and disturbing. Does management care about the stripping away of unnecessary tasks or is it just interested in power? This is sad. I have had my hands and tools inside about five different car doors and all of the experiences were absolutely pain. Drop a part and the door might have to come off it's hinges. Luckily, the only part I dropped was steel and I retrieved it with a magnet.
Given the much lower volume of the S vs the Y/3, it's probably low on the long list of things to improve. As an audiophile, I would prefer to keep the speaker mounted directly onto the door structure vs on a panel.
"the door" is several welded "panels".
It's simple to build sound dampening into a separate panel.
This kind of thing happens due to politics in companies. Years ago, I was working for a company that asked its employees for suggestions for ways to cut manufacturing costs. That was a good thing.
Now the bad. Several of us submitted suggestions and I was one of them. After a couple months not hearing anything, I went to one of the engineers that was a friend of mine and asked him what happened with the suggestion I submitted. He told me that they totally agreed with my suggestion would cut production costs, but they rejected it because the way they were doing it was the process that one of the engineers had come up with originally and they did not want to step on what he came up with. Also no one else's suggestions were implemented. That was the last time any of us submitted any suggestions.
I know exactly how you feel, and the sad part is that people cannot even step aside for the greater good. It's a sad world our children are growing up in.
A sad story, indeed
I think in this specific case, it simply wasn't re-designed for the Model S refresh, seems like these doors are almot identical to original 2012 Model S.
Maybe they'll change it over time! It seems the refresh came with a bunch of old parts that are being changed out later, headlights and tailights being the most obvious I think. :)
Hope to see them re-design it in the future to be more like the 3/Y design.
I was one of the engineers who would evaluate line employees' suggestions at a GM plant in the 80's. There was a monetary award to the employee for any savings that could be documented. A couple of times my analysis said that implementing the suggestion would avoid significant costs. Not so much today because of the tooling changes required. Tooling changed with model years - not when it made sense. So this became a cost avoidance "not savings" according to the award rules. So after a few of those, the number of suggestions and our (the engineers') desire to evaluate suggestions sank. The only idea I had first hand knowledge of actually getting approved with a monetary award was by a manager who suggested that instead of buying $100 mechanical stop watches for timing operations we switch to $20 digital stop watches.
I worked for Miller Brewing Co here in SoCa which had a suggestion program. I would put in two or three suggestions a month but never got one implemented for about a year when I got a letter stating I had won the monthly with a suggestion I had submitted over several months ago. Then I got a letter at the end of the year stating I had won the Yearly, couldn't figure what took them so long. I was too bad they took so long to implement the suggestion as I was the maintenance engineer on the keg filling machine and over the year must have cost the company thousands in damage kegs.
Sandy as a, as it stands former Master tech with a european manufactuer who's driver did not win the F-1 Championship this last year I can say I love what you do. I have delt at the dealership level of repair of the semi modular doors and conventional doors and found they just use this as an exuse to lower labor times. I know its all about snap and fit, but when it comes time to service and repair I would love to be part of Your reviews of what it takes to diagnose ,remove ,and repair rhe faults seen. I know it's rether easy to evaluate a door or a headlamp assembly when not on the clock. whith scattered information at best.Thanks for all you have dome.
Hope Tesla follows Sandy and make improvements like they do in the past.
Couple of things: the speaker almost certainly goes on well after the harness is in, so there's another pretty large access point for the assembly guys to get into. Also, the M3 panel still needs assembling - ok not directly on the line, but there's a lot of stuff to mount onto that panel, which will take time. Further, the panel will reduce the structural rigidity of the door and it could be that the model S can't afford to do without that.
Have I mentioned yet how much I love watching Munro & Associates at work? You just know it's true that Tesla is watching and taking notes! Agree Model S door re-design hasn't yet made their to do list due to low volume, this remains a nascent maker door.
That's a poor excuse!
Ive worked on a number of different vehicle doors as a kid and could not believe there was not not some secret to doing this. Years later after seeing door lines im various factories i realised just how dumb this all was. Then came the time for me to fix my 2014 Model S door handle I was prepared for the worst, cut hand and cursing......did not disappoint.....Sandy so right, please modularise doors!
Loved that breakdown. 1987 was a long time ago! I was moving to Canada from Scotland then and learned so much in that step. Munro was way ahead then, and now. I appreciate this depth of understanding.
TITLE TYPO - Instead of Tesla PLAID you unintentionally typed Tesla PAID. Just in case you want to correct that.
Love your work!
haha tesla paid for the teardown
Yea. It took me a moment on that one. Thought Tesla paid for the tear down!
Whoops.
Tesla should be paying lol, lucky for them munro have a business model and demand for these tear down without tesla help. FREE INSPECTION!!
Sandy was MAD :-)
Great video. As a retired engineer, I was flabbergasted as to the horrible assembly process required. Looks like it was designed to be manufactured in a “low cost” labor area. I agree with Sandy that this could be a quality nightmare. The amount of labor required relies on the assemblers to pay very closely to what they are doing. Makes sense now why old saying, “Hope I don’t get a car make on Monday morning or Friday afternoon” was penned. Also, why “lemon” laws were passed. Thanks for this video.
Plaid model S is a low volume car, not design for high volume, like model Y is .
Soon most all cars will be made in China, and they work 7 days a week.
@@LeesReviews69 - TESLA will invent Whole body Megacasting, and Destroy LEGACY auto.
@@markplott4820
Still on the "megacasting"?
Single question.
How do you produce a "megacasting" with good enough finish for paint on exposed outside surfaces?
Go away and ponder that. (Note the castings used so far all have steel panels as "cladding" which are then painted. Can't do that on the roof beams.
@@rogerstarkey5390 - you are a DUMMY. Megacasting is for the car structure, not body panels . In the GigaAustin model Y, only underbody Megacasting is used, and still uses a stapmed battery tray. the panels are conventional stamped in a multi layer Design, using blended steel.
in the TESLA patent the car will be a small compact vehicle made in ONE shot, including roof rails, this can be CHEMICALLY treated and smoothed in POST production. as well as clad with other metals in POST.
you, are an absolute FOOL.
You are SO RIGHT Sandy with your comments....PLEASE keep them coming, it is SO helpful for us consumers, THANKS!
We LOVE your honesty, Ben and Sandy.
Hope the BIG BOYS are WATCHING & MOST IMPORTANT, LISTENING
model s plaid is based on the same line as the model s and they already have a working line for model S. What Elon said in the interview with Sandy was that once a line is moving and tooling is setup then the line will run until they do a hard redesign.
Very interesting! I would be interested to know what you think the Tesla engineers would state as their reasons for that door design. Could it be: 1. simply wanted to stick to the 2012 design because is a low volume vehicle? 2. better sound deadening (quieter cabin) or other reasons?
Makes me wonder if tsla employees qho work on the desighn watch this ? And try to implement betterments from this
@@Mr2winners Peter Rawlinson moved onto Lucid...
Considering how much good has already been discovered during this tear down... it's amazing that we finally found something that Sandy things can be improved, changed or in this instance isn't over the moon about. For those who think he is a "fanboy" then here it is. HONEST critics are welcome and should be embraced as we learn something from our "mistakes".
Good video...Looks like they are finishing up from the parts bin from the 2020 remaining parts inventory
I guess they kept the door pretty much the same as the previous model S
I am expecting more productivity improvement on the Austin model Y
Wow I didn't realize Tesla wasn't perfect in Sandy's eyes.
He hated the Model 3 when he first saw the tear down. The Cybertruck reveal was the first time he was genuinely impressed with Tesla even though many of his first reactions to it were not at all accurate. Then as Tesla dramatically improved with the Model Y he became a diehard fan. This video just shows that he is still not a fan of old Tesla manufacturing techniques as this vehicle is essentially a throwback despite some tweaks.
This was PAINFUL to watch. You don't need to watch much of it to see the elegance of the modules from the Y and Mach E.
Thanks for really hammering it home.
Looking at the door... thinking... holy frack! What a fluster Cluck.
I wonder if maybe this is just a function of inheriting the design from the first generation Model S. Maybe they don't sell enough Model S's to justify redesigning everything to be more like the 3 and Y just for a car they only make a few thousand of every year.
Model S in 2021 sold less than 10k. so they only need to focus on NVH, does not matter if it's hard to assemble, as more Human workers are needed on Mod S line who can fainess parts better than a robot can, mod 3/Y use more robots than humans and Design is better suited for mass production.
That's a poor excuse!
@@gmv0553 It is, but that's the same as any of these super high end cars. They only sell a few each year, so complexity of manufacturing and maintenance isn't really a concern. Think about how hard it is to remove an engine from a Ferrari or to replace some trim panels on a Bentley. The buyer doesn't mind paying a lot more for the car and either they get bored with it in a year or they have six other cars and don't mind it being in the shop for a month.
On the Model 3/Y where it isn't a toy and the labor multiple is 10-20X, it makes sense to redesign and retool, but on a low run car, the return on investment simply isn't there.
The Plaid's design budget went to power and NVH since you need to be really well off to drop 150K on one of these rockets.
How about the crash worthiness? The Y door looks like it wouldnt handle an impact as well as the S would.
Most of the crash protection is in a cross member piece. The metal of the door does almost nothing in a crash.
14:27 the guy in the back 😂😂
I enjoyed this video, despite thinking it was going to be painful to watch, based on the title.
Although Sandy's points about the door are one hundred percent valid, these issues are only related to the construction and repair of the doors and in no way whatsoever effect the build quality or must have appeal
of the Tesla Model S Plaid.
Wondering at what extent of door redesign (e.g. removal of steel), would Tesla be required to perform new side impact crash test?
both doors are from tesla one is the latest model y, and the white is the model S Plaid. So there would be no new testing
@@davidanalyst671 Side impact testing is on the vehicle, not the door. Can't just swap a door from a different car and say it is tested.
And it certainly seems like all of that structure must be about side impact to begin with.
@@patreekotime4578 it’s not, that stuff is thin and flimsy and not core to the crash worthiness. There is a major beam in the door for crash worthiness.
QUESTION:
Since everything is attached to the INSIDE metal panel, are we sure that they didn't do that first, AND THEN weld the outside metal panel of the door to the inside metal panel of the door?
looks like that would be the smart move, assuming that its possible to do..
this among other reasons could speak for this design.
like retrofit, already ready tooling and assembly lines.
low volume vehicle
i bet this door speakers sound way better than the Y design
they do not want to redesign this over and over since it's all redundant design anywawy as everything goes "cyber" ? xD
Exactly what I was wondering. The inner panel isn't visible in the assembled car, so all of them can be white. It may be very difficult to weld the door pieces together with all the assemblies on it, but maybe Tesla managed something clever. Or they used advanced bonding materials.
it looks like that but there are no walking points? maybe it is glued and like you say the hole is just for maintenance and not for assembling?
Most likely not for painted metal.
I think this in not possible. You would see the weld spots and painting afterwards would be a mess.
As a double bumper sticker buyer, I appreciate the shout out.
Very informative and appreciated. The modular approach seems best to me.
11:44 that rounded edge is not just for the safety during the assembly but also for improving panel's rigidity and resistance to resonance.
Suspect Tesla looks at PLAID as a niche product with low production numbers and willing to eat up the assembly cost. Model 3/Y are with different requirements for speed of assembly and overall production cost. Great video.
Sandy appears to be on the fence w/regards to his feelings on "stick built" doors versus modular doors.
There's too little humour in the other comments, thank you!
One of the best door designs was the Saturn. Just a few bolts on the bottom then the whole outer skin came off. You could replace a broken glass and adjust everything from the outside, then just hang the outer skin back on. All the door glasses that we had too do always left our arms bleeding and cut, from sharp screws and sharp metal edges. CHEERS Steve h.
Fasinating, thank you guys so much for info & clarity of this presentation. No need to have engineering skills to understand.
Now sandy you could try and teardown a Mercedes’ sclass door with all those crazy features on them from heating handrest to speakers, seats adjusters, lighting……
Irrelevant
U don’t compare with the worst - u compare with the best
@@rogerstarkey5390 how is it irrelevant!? Honestly explain why, because Mercedes’ simply offers way more features than tesla and I want to see the door assembly.
Did they leave the original design, so they didnt have to buy another die to cut out a bigger panel in the door? Maybe it was a cost saving measure or a tool hasnt reached the end of its life yet so no reason to replace it until then?
Munro is always fair with the criticism
Thanks Sandy & Co.! The door tour is much appreciated. Sometimes Tesla seems like Dr. Jekyl and Mr. Hyde. Tesla does some stuff with incredible elan like the S-Plaid front motor assembly, and then they do a head-scratcher like the door. It keeps us entertained though.
Hey Sandy, what was the reasoning behind the initial rejection back in the 80's? I'd be interested if it was just ego or if there were valid points.
I’m betting it was ego.
A lot of "Not invented here".
Sandy covered this in a later video of the Model Y teardown video (E30): th-cam.com/video/WrkUhOxfFIY/w-d-xo.html
Elon - the 1990's called and asked for their door back
This is a trip back in time that shows where Tesla began with the Model S. Comparing this design with that of the Model Y's door shows how far they've come in just a handful of years. I can't wait to see the level of innovation the next generation vehicles have.
I'm thinkin' I may be able to replace regulators (strange word) or new glass on my Model Y. I remember the hassle the one time I had to do it. Ugh. Thanks for all these studies. They help.
9:35 I immediately can imagine a couple of tools that make the whole assembly a lot easier. Not saying that Tesla came up with similar solutions as those coming to my mind, but I'd say there's a fair chance they did.
The design applied should not be dependent on the tools you are going to use.... (productivity on design in stead of tooling)
@@chrisvanzadel6944 Back to hand built cars?
@@chrisvanzadel6944 Why not! Everyone uses Phillips head bolts. How tool dependant is that?
@@dnomyarnostaw If there were no screws needed the tool would be rededundant. "A tool with a tool will be a tool"
@@chrisvanzadel6944 The fact is, that EVERY design is not just Tool dependant, but Supplier Dependant, Legal Requirements Dependant and Economic Principle Dependant.
There is no such thing as "unfettered" design, and no point in being ridiculously reductionist in either design or construction.
Same design as the old 2013 Model S.
Maybe it is a module. Looks like the module was assembled on a metal panel and was spot-welded to the outer door frame. Maybe the harnessing was installed before the inner panel was applied.
use bailing wire to fish your cables. Start at end points grab from the larger cavity. tape cable to the fish, then pull back to endpoint. Going the other way is a B.
Difficult to repair does not fit in with the long term goal of million mile cars. People will be upset with repairs.
The 3/Y is doing the right thing. Those are the big volume vehicles.
The preassembled one had to be assembled somewhere too. It’s faster for ultimate line assembly, but it certainly has a cost to have made that needs to be considered.
and if its somoene else doing the assembly, you might be paying them a mark up to buy all the parts. Its not at simple as Sandy makes it out to be.
@@opfreakx7661 agreed!
Great video. Thank You Sandy and the team!
Glad you enjoyed it!
that is the weirdest screwdirver I've seen at 11:07. Really cool
I'm gut tells me that since the plaid and other S models are such low production, it wasn't cost effective to change the tooling to make the doors modular. Otherwise I am sure they would have
My thoughts too
Same occurred to me as well.
My guess is it will happen in the next major redesign of the S and X.
That's a poor excuse!
@@gmv0553 would you pay more for a plaid if the door was built different?
This is SERIOUS. It strikes me that Tesla has made the OEM mistake of “going to the parts bin” for the Plaid doors. Hopefully they’ll go to the Model Y philosophy BEFORE the bin is empty.
Model S is a low volume vehicle. There needs to be a certain amount of volume to make a change profitable. This may have not met that threshold. And there may have been other considerations such as noise or strength. It's interesting, but not a serious issue.
@@donm2255 Because of this door its a low volume product. Because currently you can't buy it in Europe anymore due to high demand. You can only pre-order a Model S and X now. Without any information given on when you can expect one. LOW VOLUME my ASSSSSSSS. Low production you mean, not low demand.
I can imagine that there is already a new design for the doors. They are just emptying the bin.
this is why I look for your content. warts and all!!!
With the panel trim off and the closeup panel, the metal stamping of the door looks identical to my 2015 P85D. S is a low volume product and they're probably using the same stampings they've always used for the S body...except for the rear fenders.
I would suspect the Plaid door is probably more side impact resistant.
Also, for Superior NVH.
Relative to what? The Y? The module that holds the window regulators etc isn't really part of the crash structure. The side impact beam is still part of the welded structure of the door. You can see it at 1:25 in the video when he has the module out.
@@markplott4820 What is NVH? ..noise, vibration and harshness? Yea, those two were at the top of my mind too: side impact resistant and I was thinking possibly a better speaker box.
@@Trebseig - a drop in door modules is a better idea, but will require better NVH added. but, makes the door easier to service if needed. a better speaker can be built in , inc the enclosure, EZ to upgrade speaker to a PREMIUM model.
I can see why the bass and the sound system is better on the Model S plaid. The design of the speaker housing and how it is mounted is better. More bass response and less rattles. Also with a metal inner skin, I would assume the door has more structural strength than plastic.
Or maybe they just used better speakers….. lol!!
@@carholic-sz3qv The speakers look the same. Just a better enclosure, mounting and angle.
Sandy always do some great findings. Hope Tesla will look into this.
I've taken apart door panels many many times over the years, to fix regulators, window switches, power lock motors, flex racks, and rear view mirrors, etc.
Once you get in there, you can really tell who designed it for ease of disassembly and repair....and who did not.
I’m on my second Plaid and both have had distorted driver door glass when I look out. They aren’t manufacturing that glass correctly. Also, why didn’t you show us the noise canceling speakers integrated into the seats? That’s important to show us.
Maybe Tesla was just scamming the customers with the "fancy" noise cancellation lol….
Maybe you need to get your "story" straight?
Is it one plaid. Two plaids, or a Porsche?
@@rogerstarkey5390 Think he meant two plaid shirts and a horse.
@@rogerstarkey5390 I have a 992 C2S and a Plaid. I sold my first Plaid in December due to a vibration issue that Tesla could not fix on the car.
@@carholic-sz3qv I think he didn't do his research and missed them.
I Disagree about the Plaid Door. I Owned a High End Car Audio Store and Isolating the Speaker to a Solid Area void of all Moving Hardware will Drastically Improve Audio Quality. I Love the New Design even if it takes more effort. I Can imagine the extension of the Low end Frequencies and tightness are significantly better.... Well Done Tesla
They could do it in two pieces. Mount everything except the speaker to a board, then the speaker directly to the door. Just need a hole on the board big enough for the speaker mounts.
do you actually need the entire cavity to be metal, or would one solid corner (where the speaker is currently mounted) suffice? the rest can be done via a plastic module, for an easy assembly process.
@@kam_iko The Speaker Baffle Housing should be One Solid Piece for the Lowest Resonance properties. I am sure they have opted for the most efficient Solution.
This is a legacy door from the old Model S, definitely not made this way for acoustics. They could still drastically improve the design like the Model Y and still mount the speaker separately. Tons of room for improvement while maintaining acoustics.
Sandy, you should see the wiring for the door for my 1970 Mercury Marquis. The wiring is fed from the BODY to the door after the door is mounted to the body.
Great episode. It is great to actually see how horrible a stick built door is, I knew it woudlnt be great, but I had no idea it was quite that bad.The good news is it seems like quite a standalone component to change whilst production is in progress, ie a newly designed door would have zero impact on the rest of the line?
Sandy is spot on and its hard to believe any car company would build a door this way.
Remember that Tesla was still becoming a car company when the Model S was designed.
@@esweet100 Agreed, but given all the other re-engineering I thought they would have redone the door, but it must be a smaller priority to the other re-designs. But my point was more focused on Sandy and Ben showing how the door was built, even a simple retired auto components peddler could see that modularization is the way to go, I guess once you become a big auto company (or for that matter any big shot) exec engineer, its keeping the risk to a minimum,
@@esweet100 Just had the thought, back in the old days, I was told that the first item designed is the car door(s). Again this was by an Italo Swedish design, not sure if others did it this way.
Wouldn’t the operator be able to more easily run those wires with the speaker removed and then install the speaker after the wiring harnesses?
Very informative -- enjoy your thoughtful analysis.
Another great video they should fire whoever designed the mod S door assy!!
*_Sandy, you might have missed the whole point of why Tesla might have used that door. Right off the bat, I can see that it will offer much better protection upon impact in an accident. If your car gets T-Boned, especially at high speed. I'm going to want that stronger door that doesn't bend so easily as the one with all that plastic stuff._* *Remember Tesla is always trying to make the car safer first before anything else.*
I’d want to believe that it has some merits with this design, but after Sandy’s explanation I’m starting to feel that they just didn’t have time to improve this part yet. Tesla’s just more focused on ramping up the Model 3/Y now.
And that's why in some MSs or MXs when you close the door if the window is down a bit, you hear a clunk because some screws are not tightened (well).
Once again Sandy and crew make the inner workings of a vehicle so sexy. I am loving the tutorials guys!