After 200h testing - we found the best paint in the world! - pt. 2
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 13 เม.ย. 2022
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This week we continue our heavy testing of all the paints we could get hold off. Testing them on our miniatures for warhammer & dungeons and dragons. We had a lot of fun and in the end we ended up with one paint to rule them all!
Testing paints such as vallejo, citadel, appel barrel, scale 75, kimera, golden, reaper etc.
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Emil On
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Painting miniatures for your warhammer & d&d games. Age of sigmar and warhammer 40k. Blood angels, Slaanesh, Death Guard, Space Marines, Space Wolves, Stormcast Eternals, painting scale models, miniature busts! How to paint NMM. How to paint warhammer, how to paint d&D figures. - แนวปฏิบัติและการใช้ชีวิต
We have made a brand new fantasy Universe with 10 amazing looking miniatures to paint! You can check out the campaign and support the channel - it goes live October 2022 here:
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Va-je-ho (this ho with a strong h). I love your channel. Edit: ohh at the end you said correctly!! good good.
Hey Squidmar, model colour of game colour by Vallejo? I'm torn on which box to buy and it's a lot of money
@@HeyitsMartyn model color is my fav, but the NEW game color like has some real gems too
You should do a blind test where you are given a set of paints from a particular range, but the painter has no idea what brand/range it is. Give them a score and see if it aligns with your score when you knew what you were painting with.
Definitely, I mean, what else are they going to do with all of them now?
I'd bet they already have something like this planned.
They should also do it all completely blind to be sure.
Even the painting
They should make individual colour tests too.
Find out who makes the best white, red, yellow, etc,.
Then they can try and paint with the best paints from different brands.
Needs a blind test for sure, I feel their familiarity with Vallejo heavily biased them. It just human nature
I was thinking of this as well. A blind test! Like a wet palette with 10-15 colors or maybe less and they paint using that range completely unbiased
Lucas is probably the best addition to this channel. He is a beast mini painter!
10/10
I agree he is the better painter also more charming
I think filling out the final scores together was a mistake. It's much easier to influence each other that way (26:43). Not that this was meant to be a objective test, but I would have done it separately and discuss it after. When you guys filled in the scores separately (previous rounds), you guys disagreed much more, which was interesting.
It was pretty evident in both Lucas' body language and words that he deferred to Emil and followed his lead on scoring. There was little real room for discussion or insight.
Scientific the test was not
I agree! Soon as he said a number, he was like yep. haha
It was a huge mistake, and not the only one. I'm a very mediocre painter but a pretty good scientist and the way they did it is a recipe for introducing bias. First, if they were going to use independently calculated scores the way they did, there was no need to do pairwise eliminations. As we saw with golden paints , it just introduces an unneeded variable that distorts results. Test them all, take the top scores and retest.
As was clear to most people regardless of their skill in experimental deaign, there is a reason you NEVER want to have people scoring together if their results are supposed to be independent and are to be combined later to find an average. There was really only one person making both assessments. They probably should also have assessed each paints scores independently rather than by comparison with other paint brands, but this would not have been so important had they tried to blind themselves as to the brand identity of the paints.
Different colors from each line than were used in the previous trial, put in coded bottles, by someone else to blind them as much as possible to brand IDs. Ideally blinding should be used throughout. But it would have been a pain to do so many brands in the first rounds, and it would prevent assessment of pot quality at this stage. I should also note that if they were going to use independently calculated scores to compare, there was no need to do pairwise eliminations. Test them all, take the top scores and retest.
But blinding at the final stage at least tries to limit the degree to which they are assessing not what they are painting with but also what they expect to paint with. There will always be a strong bias towards paints they liked most going into the assessments.
💯 agreed
I'm glad reaper is doing so well, it's a local company (Texas) and they make amazing products
I started with the reaper basics box, and those are still the backbones of my paints. great paints all around at a great value
If it wasn't for the $1 reject box at the Reaper store I might not have gotten into miniature painting.
I am going to assume you will be testing out Duncan Rhodes 2 thin coat paints when they get released? Interested to hear you thoughts on it.
I'm interested too!
@@SquidmarMiniatures Yeah I've backed them so would love to hear your thoughts and maybe where you think they'd rank in this battle.
@@SquidmarMiniatures great cause I'm hoping to hear your thoughts also. They are starting to ship now from kickstarter
I think if you contacted them they would happily send them to you for free 👍
Same. I got the whole line. Can't wait.
I believe Brent from Goobertown did a review of Duncan’s paints on his channel.
Thank you for validating my investment in Reaper! So few people on TH-cam use them that I was honestly worried they were considered trash. That’s about 200 paints I don’t have to replace. 😊
Vallejo paints are unbelievably good for the price you pay. Im.planning on slowly transitioning all of my base and layer paints from Citadel over to vallejo as I rd in out of citadel.
I almost exclusively use Reaper but Vallejo is a very close second in my opinion. Both are a great choice. Reaper is much easier to get for me so I get that. I haven't been able to get Vallejo for the past almost 2 years since the pandemic hit.
Vallejo has some very terrible paint, Dark Green comes to mind.
I think you should test the different paints yourself and buy the colors you like from each brand.
On principle I'm looking or alternatives to GW. I mean, I still play their games, but 3D printing and off brand paints are now more appealing than ever given the behaviour of the company in recent months. Who'd have thunk we would see the bad old days return but alas here we are. At least now we have alternative suppliers.
@@BrianReichert I'm the opposite, i don't think i've ever seen reaper in any local shops, where vallejo is available pretty much everywhere
This is a crazy exciting result for me. Because my local game store literally sells a HUGE variety of Reaper paints. I am going to buy so much more of them then. Since they really hold up really well against something like Vallejo.
My local game store doesn’t bundle them up either. There is just a shelf similar to any paint rack you see for anything else.
I've been really enjoying the AK paints lately and am now largely using them over Vallejo. One major benefit I have found to them that isn't touched on here is that they airbrush very nicely when thinned 50/50, while I have found Vallejo to be much more hit or miss through an airbrush. I really appreciate the ability to use the exact same paint for both my airbrush layer and later brushwork.
They also don't need so much shaking to mix...
They were hurt by their limited use of the AK range. Greatest White Ever!
@@malakye7459 It is a pretty good white.
Someone needs to make a head-to-head white paint comparison with AK, Kimera, Pro Acryl, and a heavy body tube white.
@@ArynCrinn I picked it up after being disappointed with pro acryls white. Kept wondering if I was doing something wrong with it after seeing all the great reviews.
My first bottle the paint would crack and grain up, super weird behavior. Got another bottle that was better but still seemed off.
The AK, no issues at all.
@@malakye7459 yes. i have tried some AK colours because some of the recipes for various Vallejo's colours have changed over the years and do not work as well as before. Vallejo metallics also tend to be troublesome to airbrush with, AK works better. I do still use both brands because some colours from either brand work better for me.
First time I went to a hobby store they recommended Model Color to me right away. I ever since have painted with them but complemented them ovr the years with a few Scale75 paints and the full Scale75 Metallic range (Alchemy and Metal). Happy to see the store gave me a good advice all those years ago.
Good vid, was already very intrigued by the earlier one and even watched it twice to shorten the wait time. Well done, boys.
I love my pro acryl paints. I've never had any issues. I prime single pieces with stynelrez/badger airbrush primer (usually black), and usually zenithal after. For large batches (i.e. skeletones, zombies, etc) I usually put them on a paint stick and prime them with rustoleum outside. I've never had a base layer issue with pro acryl on either of these primers.
I do the same as Joe here, and I also hit them with a layer of high flow matte medium from Golden. It does nothing to the colors but it helps create an acrylic base on the primer.
The only time I've had that issue was with Army Painter rattle can primer. Pro Acryl is much better than this review is saying.
If you haven't tried Pro Acryl primers yet I have to say those are worth a shot! Same process for me on batch painting but I've definitely airbrushed the yard stick in dire times. Love me some Pro Acryl
@@shawnross120 THat's an awesome idea. I'm going to start doing that myself, thank you
It was probably a little different in Europe during the pandemic, but stateside it was an 18 month struggle to get paints and products from out of country. Vallejo? Nope. Citadel? Not after their Tennessee warehouse was damaged in a flood. Scale75? Lolz. PRO ACRYL, on the other hand, was made in the US so I was able to get it really easily. Meanwhile, I had to have a conversation with myself about whether or not I was willing to pay eBay prices for Vallejo metal color aluminum...
I'm so happy Reaper got so far in the competition! They are my favorite brand of mini paints, especially when it comes to their skin tone range. It's a shame you guys can't get them as singles in Europe.
The Golden High Flow acrylics are absolutely fantastic paints... Through an airbrush. Even the non-transparent ones are quite thin, and they're really great for glazing. Their big strength lies in their fantastic fluorescent colors, though.
The break down to a glaze really nice!
Agreed, my favorite line to put through an airbrush!
Indeed, best fluorescents out there.
It would've been interesting if this had been done as more of a blind test where someone else put a dab of each colour on the pallet instead. Just knowing the paint brand will influence the perception of the paint more than we think, humans suck at being objective :)
Still a great test regardless though, so thank you for spending the time and money to do it.
This basically mirrors my experience. I started out with Reaper and when I tried Citadel and Army Painter it felt like both a slight and a major step down. Then when I tried Vallejo I thought "Oh this is as good or better than Reaper." Now most of my collection is Reaper and Vallejo. After Ninjon's rec also tried Golden So Flat and have loved it.
You can order individual paint colors directly from Reaper at least in the US. That's how I've gotten most of mine. :)
Pro Acryl are really a Joy when used with their own Primer, the pro Acryl primer. They react pretty different, Meaning better, on their own Primer
Great to see Reaper getting some love. I've been using them for years and they really are fantastic. I've had lousy luck with Vallejo (dry, chalky, etc), so I'm happy to see that my preferred range came in #2. Though I do have to say, I've been using Monument ProAcryl and REALLY enjoying them.
Not surprised to see it come down to those two at the end. I've only recently gotten into actually painting minis (have a huge collection of Reaper stuff to build and paint someday), but out of the few brands I've tried, Reaper and Vallejo have been my favorites to use.
i'm actually really happy to see reaper do so well as i think they're one of the best lines for beginners on the market (but, really, nothing beats vallejo's sheer range of colours [even though i mostly paint with scale 75 and kimera, at this point.])
super cool series, it would be really interesting to see you guys put together a set with the best colours from across all the ranges - best white, best black etc.
Yay, so glad Golden got more of a look. I really can't recommend their paints enough.
I love em, but my only hold back is how expensive they are :/
@@miguelmora7564 They do cost most then a Vallejo paint, but they also come in bigger bottles, so per ml its not a big difference. Depends how much you want to paint :D
Their "Fluid" line is what I useually buy and they are about $10-12 for a 30ml bottle instead of the $6 for the 17ml that Vallejo sells.
Was certain it would come down to those 2. They are what I use interchangeably. Only disagreement I have is I’d give more points for Reaper in the Range category because of the Triad system. For me anyway I really like that.
When I started out their Triad system made it so much easier for me. I can see how people with an artists skill to mix their own paints might not think of that, but using their triads really changed how I thought about painting minis.
Is there a way to make a blind test for this paints (like someone else prepares the pallet with the colours)? that may be interesting to see if you instantly recognize them or if any of your opinions differ
Y'all's NMM always looks so good. I would watch loads of videos of you all just painting NMM.
I had forgotten my terrible early start with Pro Acryl. It was like hydro-phobic, it did NOT apply to Army Painter primer at all. I bought a can of Citadel and adherence was no longer a problem. Since I have a wide selection of Pro Acryl, I also bought their Primer. I've been using the Black with a White Ink over it and results are good. I understand Vallejo is probably the best Primer, and will try that next.
Maybe thats the issue, we've been using Vallejo and AP primer. Its a little weird its hydrophobic to certain primers thought.
Thats weird, i mainly paint with Pro Acryl on Army Painter primer and have never experienced that.
I love the pro acryl primer sooo much more than Vallejo primer
@@SquidmarMiniatures if you want to use a polyureathane primer, always go with Badger Stynylrez / MiG One Shot (same product, US / EU branding). It literally "wraps" itself around the model and unlike Vallejo and AP it grabs the surface so well that only after 20+ minutes you can... sand it! Vallejo polyureathane needs hours to achieve full surface adherence, while for Stynylres / One Shot about 10-15 minutes is enough (!).
Can't stop recommending those and I use nothing else.
I ran into the same issue. I LOVE Vallejo Primers with that amazing low velocity nozzle. But the ProAcryl always resists on the white (only the white). Switched to Citadels Corax and never saw the issue again (I just swap the Cit nozzle with the Vallejo nozzle lol). Also Never got the issues with Vallejos Grey or Black primers. But if you use the white for even highlights the issue is there again as the ProAcryl acts Hydrophobic to the white. The only thing that makes me angry is there is NO corresponding colour match for the Vallejo grey primer so if you prime grey and need to touch up you need to repaint all the grey unless it works in your scheme.
It would be really interesting to see you go through and pick the best white/ black etc.. from all the different brands to make up your best essentials kit for colours.
I really loved this little series you did. I would love to see more of these companies other ranges, blind tests, airbrush lines, inks. I really liked the categories you guys chose it makes it easy to pick out what I prioritize in paints. Nice work guys!
I love that y’all have taken the time to test all of these paints. I mostly use Citadel, but Vallejo and Kimera are great additions for my painting style. On their own, I struggled with the finish of Kimera at first and noticed the same finish on Lucas’ model. That being said, mixing Kimera into citadel has yielded great results, especially replacing Kimera white for corax white and white scar.
I also love reaper's brush on primer. It needs a touch of water and it goes on great. And you really can just go for it if you're impatient because it flows and doesnt dry thick anywhere even applied unevenly. I spray prime all my minis except characters. They get the brush prime from reaper. Go Texas go!
This was a great series of videos, Emil and Lucas. Would love to see Vallejo Model vs Vallejo Game, and perhaps the inclusion of more variety of artist grade acrylic paints, though as you indicated, they come in larger quantities than miniature painters usually want or need and are therefore much more expensive. Still, I really enjoyed that you included Golden. Maybe also one focusing on metallics?
Those were probably some of the finest quick-miniatures I've ever seen - and the best squarespace ad ;)
Guys, small continuity error, when lucas wrote down Reaper on the board we could already see that AK won the round that was coming up next. Considering its an almost 28 minute and a 2nd part at that i think its quite remarkable the amazing quality you've managed to mantain in every video. Amazing series and i hope i see more stuff like this on the channel sometime.
Ps the shot with emil's face surrounded by paint pots was my favorite.
Glad to see Reaper up there. The only problem I've ever had with Reaper was nozzle clogging, but that is an easy fix.
on specific colors? how do you fix that?
Glad that SoFlat is getting hype! I love the paints, I used them in actual painting and minis. The only problem with them is that they have a harder time only primer layers with a little poly, the paint really needs some tooth to really excel.
Outstanding! Because although the test was a long one you guys have explained really well the advantages and disadvantages of the paints. Thanks guys 👍👍👍
A really great test would have been to test them blind, that is have a third party put each paint in generic pots, number them then give you each brand with out you guys knowing which was which. Loving this show down, keep up the great work!
I've been quite happy with the Vallejo products that I have tested, so it's cool they won the whole thing!
Awesome to see Reaper get so far, very very cool!
Absolutely agree can’t beat the OG Vallejo, love their paints, I own a couple hundred bottles from several of their ranges. They are so consistently great that I just don’t bother very much with the other ranges anymore. Thanks guys, really great test, enjoyed both videos!
I appreciate this since i am just getting started. I chose Vallejo by the colors I was looking for in my first set and it looks like my instructs were right. Thanks guys!!
Awesome video, big fan of both Vallejo and Reaper. You should try the Clear Bright paints Reaper have, single pigment paints with no titanium white added for opacity; they are amazing for mixing and glazing.
Well I did my research well before I ever bought paints then! Even going for the Model Color over the Game Color range! AND the other brand I'm eyeing up happens to be Reaper since I'm such a fan of their minis too. Time to start eyeing up potential purchases there when my vallejo starts running out. Thanks for a truly interesting series to watch through!
this is super helpful info for those of us expanding our pallet. I see Golden all the time and never thought they would be an option. they are super available where I am so I think I'll snag a bottle for the colors I use the most of
Awesome video. I've LOVE to see you do a similar thing in the future with airbrush paints. It's definitely the category I struggle most with when buying paints.
Scale 75 artist is my all time favourite. Coming in tubes that you don’t need to shake and being so thick you can make them any thinness you need is a god send. 100/💯
Real surprised they didn't include any tube paints whatsoever.
Secret Weapon is ending business soon, so including it as the wild card was kind of a waste.
They're my favorite too! I think people are afraid of the heavy body acrylics for some reason, maybe because you need to have a good feel of the paint flow and they don't realize you can kinda use them straight out of the tube?
@@Ainar86 Also need to know how to use inks with them for maximum saturation/flow.
Would love to see a face off between Scale Artist, Jo Sonja, and Liquitex or Golden Heavy Body.
@@ArynCrinn didn’t know secret weapon was ending their business. I only have a couple of their paints that I got from a friend, but I do like them & the colors I have are pretty unique. Maybe I should pick up some more before they’re gone.
I dont know if it's a U.S thing or a Texas thing, but round these parts yall can round up singles of that there Reaper paints tell ya what. Home grown Reaper
Jokes aside I personally LOVE Reaper paints! Been to their facility, met with their paint maker lady, super amazing people! I'm sure Vallejo has good people too, but Reaper gets that sentimental bump from me
Reaper is based on Denton Tx, so that helps. I agree. I love reaper!!!
@@nathanelacey I'm sure they'd give squidmar a tour if he ever visited!
@@IOnlyWantToWatchIt 100% agree
If they weren't busy with their latest Kickstarter, I would bet someone could probably convince Reaper to send Emil the entire range - maybe even the store paint rack as well to go with the 2 Vallejo racks he has . . .
It's a US thing. Pretty much any store in the US that carries Reaper sells single bottles from a giant rack like the other big brands. Outside of the US it's a bit surprising they even found the 3 packs. They are very much a brand that sells mostly in the US.
Love your dedication to the hobby!
And that adverticement for squarespace… oh my gawd♥️
Well done guys, this is a really informative but still really fun video, nice to see lots of alternative approaches to the minis as well!
Your feeling about Reaper's paint consistency is actually really interesting. The woman that designed all of Reaper's master series line (and almost every single other paint in the line) is a mini painter of considerable skill and painted with Vallejo paints for a long time and loved them, but her one gripe was the thickness; she wanted them just a bit thinner. So when she started designing the line at Reaper she designed for that consistency and I personally love it. I've rarely had to thin reaper paints unless I was doing a glaze, and I've never had any issues with wet blending (one of my favourite techniques) despite the paints being a bit thinner than your average miniature paints. There is one key thing you missed in the Master Series paint range that really gives it even more versatility than you might expect; the clear colours. The clear colours (clear blue and clear magenta are stand outs for their versatility) are several single pigment paints with high pigmentation and very translucent; they excel at mixing with other colours without running into issues even when mixing with multi pigment paints, they can be mixed together to make any colour (you do have to mix in either white or black to make them more opaque though), and they are perfect for glazing.
Just a note on availability: while I don't know of many stores that carry Reaper paints in store in North America, it's easy to order them directly from Reaper. You can purchase single colours, or triads (the triads are grouped such to provide an easy shadow, mid tone, and highlight colour together), or any of their various different kits. Reaper customer service is some of the best I've ever dealt with, and it really is extremely easy to communicate with them. You do have to pay shipping, but shipping is free on orders over $50 USD (if in the States) or $80 USD (if going to Canada), and you also get a free model of your choice from the selection that month (there's usually 7 or 8 models you can choose from) per $50 dollar increment and they usually send a bottle of sample paint (colours that didn't get mixed quite right, or sometimes themed colours for special months like October to celebrate certain things). If you aren't a fan of the minis Reaper produces, this isn't as much of an incentive, so mileage may vary on that front. I know Reaper is still working on expanding their availability in Europe and their stock there; all of Reapers paints are mixed at the Reaper headquarters in Denton, Tx; they have great quality control, but it does mean everything has to ship out from Denton and keeping their European satellite warehouse stocked has been an issue for them at times. No where near the kind of all encompassing availability of Vallejo paints where you can walk into almost any hobby store (other than GW stores obviously) and pick up a bottle, but not onerous to get your hands on in North America at least.
I really can’t say I am surprised with Vallejo being at the top but I for sure have been sleeping on Reaper. Certainly changed my mind on them and I will be picking up a set to give them a go.
been a delight to watch these two vids and learn a lot more about brands ive never heard of before, thanks so much squidmar , would love to see your opinion on texture paints sometime
Love your videos, every time I am feeling uninspired I watch one of these videos and get back to painting.
The last score you should have done it separately not to be influenced by each other
I don't think it affected anything because you guys have always been direct, but I couldn't help but notice what seemed like one of the full and sponsored racks from Vallejo in one of the studio shots.
Yeah we've gotten paints from them. But we used them way before. We were also sponsored full sets from army painter and green stuff that scored the lowest in all tests. :)
With that said, it's got to always think twice like you did here with everything you see on the internet :)
@@SquidmarMiniatures Now that is a flex and proof that sponsorships don’t buy opinions!
As someone just getting into mini painting this video is amazing. Thank you for the great content!
Im super happy Reaper got as far as it did. First and only paints ive used (exception is only 2 army painter colors). After this just might have to consider investing in some Vallejo!
I think everyone should have more than just 1 or 2 brands in their collection. I have Scale 75, Vallejo, Citadel & AK. I have a couple of Reaper paints & I got them in singles, though I will look to add some more to my collection, along with Kimera & Pro Acryl too. Will interesting to see what you think about 2 thin coats when it comes out.
Yepp
Buy the paints you want, not the brand. :)
@@Himle_ Thats why they should do individual colour comparisons, and then culminate with a video in which they paint a model using the winners.
Definitely won't be seeing a Citadel white in the final...
@@ArynCrinn hehehe So true!
I honestly wonder how Citadel has managed to create such bad paints (white/black). And why not re'formulate them so they're all the same quality. When the rest of the paints are quite good, imho.
Great video :) I loooove both reaper and vallejo and they are currently the only paints I use on minis.
Would you guys ever consider doing a similar series to this one where you test out mini primers? Pretty much all of the paints you covered also have various types of primers, and I would love to see them pitted against each other.
I'm not surprised. I use to paint with Citadel, and I am changing most of my paints to Vallejo. I have to try Reaper Minis. Thanks for the videos
Reaper sells by the bottle as well... You just have to order from the website outside of the US I believe.
Yeah, I've ordered a bunch direct from the site to get some colors that my FLGS didn't have (and the shop *does* have a rack of individual bottles in addition to triads and box sets). Reaper even threw in a couple of minis and a bonus paint (I think there was a price threshold in there somewhere, though).
Vallejo Model Color has ~200 colors in it. Reaper has almost 400 different colors with more constantly being added. Not that two points made a difference in the outcome, but I think based on how you said you were rating them Reaper should've blown Vallejo out of the water when it comes to range. Those two paints make up the vast majority of my arsenal anyway - it seems to me Vallejo Fantasy-pro paints are the best they make, if they're even still making them anymore? Really cool series from y'all!
Vallejo has more mini paints, this is just their best one. The have model color, game color, model air. . It´s been making paints since decades.
@@0shaade0 I'm not the one who decided to limit discussion to just Model Color out of their various ranges. All three of Reapers lines are more or less the same function though, unlike Vallejo where Game Color and Mecha Color are different from Model Color. Like Vallejo, Reaper have also been in the business for decades and have an extensive line!
This was lots of fun! It may not have been the most rigorous scientific evaluation, but you're both super talented and creative and put in the hours to find something to appreciate about every paint in the competition and make gorgeous minis with all of them.
I found it super funny how you said that the range of Vallejo was missing some vibrant colors since I feel like the Game Color range was made exactly for that super vibrant fantasy color type of painting. I use both Game Color and Model Color for my minis and I couldn't be happier.
But still both of these videos gave me quite some inspiration and I'd really like to try some other paints as well now! :)
The Lion King add was my favorite part, you know you're doing something right when even the adds are enjoyable! XD
I feel like the low mixability for Vallejo is due to the wide range of colours they provide. You don't really need to mix a lot since you can basically just buy any highlight or shadow you could ever need for your base coats.
Great content guys. In North America Reaper has singles available. What is great is Reaper and Vallejo play very well together and intermix with each other wonderfully.
Thanks for doing this. They have just started selling Vallejo at a store at the end of my road. I picked up a couple for some Bolt Action minis and instantly fell in love with them. I'm glad y'all feel the same.
REALLY surprised by the Pro Acryl issues mentioned, been using them ever since they went on pre-order a couple of years ago and never looked back.
I wonder if it's due to some freezing issue during travel that affected the binder
I'm curious too. ASI mentioned we had some comments of others with the same issue
@@SquidmarMiniatures I've switched from Vallejo to PA as my daily driver. I haven't had any of the issues with basecoats/first layers you'd mentioned. I even went back after my first two orders to grab up some their primers because of how well the PA paints were working for me.
@@SquidmarMiniatures honestly think it's worth reaching out to Jason from Monument. Picked up 5 random colors from my shelf after watching the video and slapped some base coats on unprimed mini with zero issues so really flabbergasted with the adhesions issues
I wish you two marked the final separately. I felt we didn't get a true indication of the differences in your results. But great trial!
This was fantastic. Through you guys I discovered the kimiko paints that are perfect for a small kit for my constant travelling.
I don't skip your in video adverts, they're hilarious!
Great idea and very entertaining competition. Thanks guys!
I always had the same issue with pro acryl not sticking on the first layer, I tried both AP black primer and citadel chaos black, and it doesn't stick well to either. However, despite both manufacturers claiming that the primers are matte, to my eye they both have a satin finish, which is probably why the very fluid pro acryl paints have trouble sticking. When I started using Vallejo hobby spray grey, which has a true matte finish, I didn't have the issue. I think it's really just because pro acryl is so fluid and trying to get it onto a satin surface. Switch over to any matte primer and it should be fine
yeah matte primers have a better texture for paint to stick onto. I'm pretty sure using a matte varnish spray after your primer coat would have helped too.
I’m really surprised you guys had these issues with Pro Acryl. That hasn’t been my experience at all. I’ve been using them for about 6 months, and have retired a bunch of Citadel and Vallejo as a result. I’ve been using pretty much exclusively Vallejo primer through an airbrush, though. Maybe that makes a difference?
I agree with this completely. Since starting with proacryl I haven't really used much of anything else I like their paint so much. It's by far the easiest to work with in my opinion and is extremely consistent painted or airbrushed.
I had issues with the proacryl I thought it was just me. seeing as people in my gaming club rave about it.
so it is funny see someone else have the same issue.
It's no major loss i switched to Vallejo after p3 was increasingly difficult to get and I have been on a huge oil painting kick since lock downs started. because dry time was no longer an issue.
Same here. Maybe they got kinda wonky shipping from the US to Europe?
They were using Citadel Chaos Black Spray weren't they?
Not sure how well it works on the Chaos Black. Might be too satin.
EDIT - No, it's Vallejo and AP sprays.
Still, might not be the best surface.
@@ArynCrinn I’ve used citadel and the Vallejo spray primers and had no issues with proacryl stuff!
This has been such a great video series! Awesome work! And your promotional parts are always so fun and surprising ^^
Pretty damn exhaustive test gents! I haven't used all the brands but I can attest to the quality of the Vallejo range. Only started using them for scale modelling with WW2 tanks and planes but have found myself using them on the fantasy/sci-fi stuff now too. Great price and range of colours on top of the quality. As you mentioned before the final though each range has some great paints and ultimately it's a mix and match of your favourite paints for the models you like painting.
I’m pleased to see my 2 “go to” brands at the top of the list, but I wonder if the points would have been closer if you were more familiar with some of the ranges. It’s going to be hard for anyone to edge out the paint you mostly use.
Perhaps the real challenge is to put everything in the same pots and then paint with them de-identified. (Yes that needs a third party to set up if both of you are going to paint.)
I am shocked Reaper made it so far - I've always thought of them being clones of Army Painter; lower quality with a lower price point for people starting. I'll give some of them a second try then next time I see them in stores
That seems to be a common thought. When they first came out they weren't very good from what I hear. But some years ago they reformulated their entire line. I use Reaper primarilly and they are very different from AP. If you give them a try I hope you like them.
I almost exclusively use reaper these days. It’s such good quality and very affordable.
@@BrianReichert I also use AP and Reaper and agree they are completely different
I have found Reaper much better than Army Painter personally.
@@johnathanrhoades7751 totally agree. Army painter is easy to find but it’s sucks to use. Lol reaper quality is amazing!
Love this, thanks for putting this out there!
Recently, I've been enjoying working with the Scale 75 artist range. They are incredible! And I agree Emil, it seems that blends happen on their own with S75 sometimes.....now I am really curious to open my Kimera paints that I just received.
The Pro Acryl beading thing is super weird. Never have had that issue.
Same here
The main reason I went away from vallejo is they are difficult to get here and we get gouged by retailers. I found the pro acry to be so much better and easier to find at very reasonable prices. I am watching your golden paint stuff with interest. I have bought kimera due to what I have seen online.
That sucks, here they are cheaper than most other brands.
@@SquidmarMiniatures I just cannot get vallejo, thus I started searching for other paints. I like the Matt finish of scale75. I use army painter and now I just need to learn to dry brush, have not been able to do it. Oh, I cannot find the red grass games nippers you recommend.
I love using a mix of paints, Citadel, Coat D'arms, Army Painter, and hopefully the Duncan range when I get it!
I'm a HUGE fan of the reaper paints. I was rooting for them the whole way through. I felt they were a bit hard done by on your thinability test because it's a joy to be able to take paints straight from the pot and not need to thin them down. But model color paints are a worthy winner. Epic stuff 👏👏
They should do this test blind, no bias.
Agree but then it would probably be the same. If you have been painting with brand A for over 10 years and switch over it just feels different. The test would have been perfect if they did not have any experience with any of the brands.
@@SliverCreations nah they have bias tovard vj as thats thir main paint so when they know they using it, they natrual score it high, if it was blind they maby think its vj and its another paint, vise versa
You should point out some good paints from all ranges, even the ones that lose.
I'd love to see this series with other hobby tools! brushes, holders, primers, etc.
"Army Painter and Vallejo had a beat off..." --- Squidmar 2022
I saw it with my own eye
@@SquidmarMiniatures just the one?
As a Reaper fan, I was super happy to see them get some much-deserved respect! (Also, while they do sell their paints in triads and sets, everything they make is also sold as singles.)
I'd like to see this again but color vs color when doing brands. It felt like some they just ignored a lot of the range and then complained about contrast.
Yeah, colour against colour would be the real test since some ranges do some colours better than others - and some ranges just can't get a particular colour right. But that would probably take way more work than the return on TH-cam and Patreon would bring them (as in taking away time from other projects)
Im so happy that Lucas became a regular on the channel.
These videos are a super useful resource. Thanks guys.
Please let your viewers know that Reaper ships international and does sell individual colors as well as sets. And they have great miniatures.
I greatly appreciated seeing the reviews on the paints. I always look at other ranges and wonder if I should add some.
Not suprised at all that reaper was a neck and neck 2nd place finish. I have used reaper primarily for years. It is my favorite for all the reasons y’all mentioned. So glad that more people will learn about reaper.
Stop buying army paints they are are trash. Lol get reaper!
Also Texas, USA based. As a Texan I like that!
Not sure if you guys are aware, but Monument Hobbies sell two alternate tops for their Pro Acryl paints. Instead of the screw-open tops they offer dropper tops with caps (similar to vallejo) and they have a flip top version (like the apple barrel paints). So that might win back some points for some users (plus they're like $6USD for a set of 10)
These are my favorite 2 ranges, here in the US I'm lucky enough to have stores with reaper racks so I can buy singles, one thing that is great with reaper is the triad system with all their colors make it really easy to use. Great job guys!
You guys had issues with some of these paints like ProAcryl and Kimera that I've simply not experienced. It could be a result of you guys using spray can primers because those act quite differently from airbrush primers. General consensus among pros seems to be that spray can primers are considerably worse than airbrush primers and they're the target audience of artisan paints like Kimera so maybe there's something to it. I don't really know what's up there but you could ask Vincy V.
I use Scale75 primer,Vallejo primer,ProAcryl primer and A.MIG One Shot primer. They're all black airbrush primers and haven't had any issues with any paints when using them. A.MIG is best out of that lot but I don't use it exclusively because it's also the most expensive one.
A.MIG One Shot aka Badger Stynylrez (the original product) for those Stateside, or UMP Ultimate Primer for those in the UK. Just get whichever one is more affordable for you, since it's all the exact same stuff.
I live in Australia, and I can get actual Stynylrez for less than Pro Acryl Prime.
Primers are a bit more complex than that.
You'll get beading on the primer when it's not chemically a good match for the medium or the thinner. Some primers are specifically hydrophobic as well, so using water to thin will make the primer repell the paint.
Tamiya and GSI primers are great examples of this. They create and an amazingly clean, smooth and hard surface. But you cannot paint on it with water thinned paints. You have to use solvent based paints or thinners.
@@ArynCrinn sucks there’s no distributor yet in Aus for monument. I just bought a set from element games in the uk as the shipping was pretty cheap (so despite the higher base cost, it’s a fair bit cheaper delivered than direct) Looking forward to trying them when they eventually arrive
@@kuhvacako Jason says he has someone interested in stocking the range here.
And yes, I've bought all my Monument stuff from Element too. I'm amazed they've been able to keep their shipping prices down.
There's also a stockist in Singapore that might not be too bad.
@@ArynCrinn cheers I’ll see if I can find that Singapore stockist. There’s a couple of U.K. stockist that can ship cheaper here than aus based stockest. Jackson Art (it has an Aus footprint but all my online orders have been shipped from the U.K.)is only a few bucks for heavens sake!
wish i knew this all before i bought a army painter bundle...
You'll be able to paint some cool stuff though, and some people love AP :) i recommend trying a few from other brands, just buy a couple to try. I'm sure there's a second hand market for them if you find the others fit you better.
@Seabas don’t worry, they are good paints. Vallejo barely beat them out, you will be okay
If the bundle has the agitator balls in the bottles (for a while shipping rules in certain places prevented them doing that), you give them a good shake and make sure to get rid of the extra medium they put in for shipping, you should be fine. The biggest challenge with AP is that consistency between colours in terms of thinning, etc is sometimes 'off' and some are way more glossy than others. Realistically, for most mini painters any dedicated mini paint will be good enough for a long time, things like brush control and trying new things are where the real 'gains' are - a particular paint brand isn't necessarily going to make you a better painter.
@@SquidmarMiniatures i definitely am going to be broadening my horizons with paints thanks to your 2 part demonstration and test of all the most popular brands. your videos on the subject where really educational. i can already see some pants being better for base coating and some being better for detail work and edge highlighting. the miniature painting community really needed a video like this. i now know exactly what i need when its going to come to colors and how the paint itself reacts. i cant wait to see what you have cooking next.
AMERICAN VIEWERS, Michaels craft store carries golden products if you want to try them! Usually Michaels is over priced for low quality stuff, but their mark up on Golden is tiny...like less than a dollar more than online sources, meaning you save on shipping. Golden also sells matte medium and crackle paste great for basing, Seriously more people need to be talking about this brand, I love it!
The Marco NJM video from last year got me looking at Golden. Those high-flow colors work amazingly through an airbrush.
Loving this show down! Keep up the great work.