ฝัง
- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 4 มิ.ย. 2024
- This week David and Marina respond to a listener who thinks BIM has its benefits for complex work but might also be ruining the architecture industry. The two provide an introduction to BIM, the limitations of its benefits, understanding BIM as a tool, designing in a BIM software, and BIM’s impact on an office and the profession as a whole.
(00:00) An introduction to BIM (Building Information Model); the benefits of BIM for architects and for the industry; and the 7 dimensions of BIM.
(12:30) The challenge of designing in BIM.
(20:44) When BIM should be used in a project process.
(24:45) Understanding BIM as a tool.
(27:35) BIM’s impact on project phases and why it might not be practical for small practices.
(31:15) Should students learn Revit?
(34:40) Does BIM lead to poor architecture? Architecture compared to cooking.
(41:15) BIM in offices.
(52:51) How will BIM impact the profession of architecture?
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About:
The Second Studio is an explicit podcast about design, architecture, and the everyday. Hosted by Architects David Lee and Marina Bourderonnet, it features different creative professionals in unscripted and long-format interviews with thoughtful takes and personal discussions. Honesty and humor are used to cover a wide array of subjects.
Episode Types:
• GUEST INTERVIEWS: Interviews with leading professionals
• PROJECT COMPANION: Tips for clients
• FELLOW DESIGNER: Tips for designers
• DESIGN REVIEWS: Review of buildings and other projects
• AFTER HOURS: Casual conversations
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Hello, I'm an architect/BIM Manager from the Dominican Republic. Thank you for this discussion, it's a sensitive topic for those of us who believe BIM came to solve many issues in the AECO industry. I completely agree that the tools you use to design, whichever they are, limit your capacity for design, which in terms of BIM design software like Revit, Archicad, Vectorworks, etc, means that you will be constrained by your level of expertise in the software. It is very important to be mindful of the costs of implementing BIM in an architecture firm, because when it's done wrong, they blame the BIM workflow for the design problems. Good architecture can be made by hand, on a napkin, on CAD, and through BIM. Every method has its pros and cons, but I believe that BIM brings so much more freedom to design freely and explore different design options relatively quickly. This doesn't mean only using Revit, since integrating other free modelling tools and be a part of your personal BIM workflow. BIM is not ruining the architecture industry. People who try to force BIM without proper education are.
Well said!!! It's just a tool and like any other it has to be understood to be used effectively
The top BIM software packages rival the 3D design ability of Sketchup (not Rhino yet). The vast majority of designers use Sketchup with little complaints about it as a design tool. We’ve been using BIM software since the early 00’s when we could and about 10yrs ago made the transition to full BIM as the software packages allowed freedom of design in modelling. We hardly ever use standard elements (windows, handrails, etc) in our designs but customize everything - for example the profile manager in ArchiCAD. So the criticism is that because it’s easy to use the library, architects get lazy, and just use the library. Yes it can be more work on the front end but for professional firms the time saving aspect for a project is incredible. The comment that you have to be really good at the software is the key comment is absolutely true (of any tool tho right? haha).
well said!!!!
Hi, this is a very interesting topic and it touches deep. I'm in South Africa and we have this notion as an "Architect in the Making" that one needs to learn BIM in order to get a job and the target is to work for them top firms.
And Yes, it does manifest to one being perceived as a Technician "CAD Mouse" We are hired because of the Software you know...
'architect in the making'
In our Practice (which is based in the UK and operates throughout Europe, the Middle East and North America) we carry out the majority of our design process using physical models and by manually drawing on translucent paper overlays. Once the fundamentals of the project are emerging, we then use software such as Blender to refine the forms and dimensions (we tend to avoid straight lines, except when drawing floorplates in section), finally moving to programs such as 3D Studio Max to settle the technical details and sometimes bringing in packages like Houdini and Enscape to create animations and walkthroughs for our Patrons to 'play with' to get a feel for the spaces we are creating. This all seems to work, but tends to be quite time-consuming and I very much doubt that it reduces total costs.
Whoa. sounds intense. i bet you guys produce some beautiful things with that process.
Very interesting topic, I’m also an architect who specialises in regionalism and vernacular architecture, having worked on some BIM endorsed softwares I’ve learned that they work better when you already know what you are doing, the problem and one of the questions we should ask is : if architecture is principled and BIM heavily technifies the process, what happens to the techs we are encouraging to use this softwares? Will it make them good spatial designers or will we have era of not so good architecture?
100%!
That's why nowadays we need a team with different skillset. BIM is the team that help your ideas out smoothly
This is an intresting discussion. It's about time we start having these discussions addressing the current challenges that come with tools like BIM that ideally are made to make the design process less of a hassle. I'll definitely have to listen to this again.
Thanks for sharing. I have a BSME and I always thought there was a dilemma between design and learning a program. In my case it was learning AutoCad (AutoCad 10) or becoming an HVAC/Plumbing designer and later it was learning Revit (Revit 2012). I became very good at AutoCad and Revit. In my years of practice I never met an engineer who was good at AutoCad or Revit, they were very good at designing HVAC/Plumbing systems. It became a symbiotic relationship over the years between me and the engineers, they taught engineering systems and I taught them the ends and outs of AutoCad and Revit. To young designers, my advice would be to choose between learning Architectural or "BIM". I don't think you can do both at a high level. Learning BIM Includes: Revit, Navisworks, BlueBeam, AutoCad, not to mention all of the rest of Autodesk's "cloud" products. I think drafters (modelers) will always be around to assist the engineers. Employers hire either engineers or drafters.
Interesting take, and one that personally tend to agree with. I think it is possible to be good at both... but the chances of that are pretty low (from what i've seen). i also tend to agree that employers (good ones) look for people who can think, and not just for their computer skills. though that's of course not always the case
I disagree that using a bim software doesn't challenge the user to make critical decisions, in fact that is what it does all the time when it asks you to define elements. The model can be advanced to various 'levels of development' depending on the stage of design, from massing to detailing. And there are many ways of modeling something that challenge the user to think about how an element should be modeled (or drawn as 2d information within a model element) to allow for embedded consciousness, continual design development and eventual construction. Because of this, there is a feedback loop that can happen much earlier in the process as "designers" are challenged to put their concept to the test earlier, and things that don't work come to light quickly in 3d. Having myself just come off a multifamily high rise sitting above a metro station, where i was the model coordinator, one of the challenges i saw was the collective lack of understanding about what the LOD should be, across the arch and consultant teams, which comes back to the contract structures, which need to be made transparent and written from the beginning with the bim manager involved. There was also a lack of desire to use the model, to simply look at it and spin it around to understand the specific design problem. so bim requires a lot of critical thinking actually and user ability, it is not automated design. I believe bim is a mindset that starts with a collective aspiration to want to make a project, which reflects a collaborative process. If you support information being decentralized and leveraged for the benefit of the greater good, then you should support bim. It is to support a paradigm shift away from the abuse of power and the mythology of the creative genius, and towards a more mutilvalent, expanded future for all to access this field.
Thank you for the interesting discussion. I have a background in architecture and work in construction administration, and I wish the project I am working on were designed using a BIM software. Once you have a heavy and overdesigned MEP & structural system, it becomes a must to coordinate everything with the architectural drawings. Otherwise, you end up with tons of clashes between ductwork, electrical conduits, beams, and so on...
The best approach can be to start the initial designs/concepts on a different platform (sketches, models, maybe using a flexible software that allows more creativity and is less rigid than Revit) and then transfer it to the Revit platform. Unfortunately, when there is such urgency to build effectively for housing purposes, architecture and its creative process is taking a back seat these days, with or without BIM. Hopefully there can still be a happy medium.
Thanks for the very thoughtful note! I can totally see what you're saying. i hope the projects go smoothly :)
Such a good conversation. You hit on all the points i have thought or said about BIM at some point over time. My biggest concern is that BIM, like all other softwares, has become ingrained in peoples minds as a miracle to solve all the world's problems, vs. one tool in a kit of many to help solve those problems.
Hello and many thanks for this discussion. You two actually touched on a lot of pertinent issues affecting the industry in a very honest, pragmatic, and transparent way. Need to do a second listen to extract further discussion material. Very well done and thanks once again.
thx ninah!
Interesting discussion.
BIM as a methodology has it's pros and cons. It is definitely a more efficient way of producing common deliverables, but I have to agree that it has some drawbacks to the "creative process".
Personally, I follow the hybrid process of going back and fort between the digital (BIM and photoshop, etc.) and manual (sketching and model making) it makes for a better well thought out result.
The right tool at the right time is the mantra really.
right tool at the right time. love it. it's hard sometimes for folks to know that. i think the cpu in general is very seductive and sometimes hard to get away from. i know many seasoned architects who (on occasion) find themselves realizing the've wasted time in X-program when the should've picked up the trace and pen a lot earlier. it's an odd thing
Ha! Yeah it's all too often occurance. I think it's the "shiny new toy" syndrome. I am guilty of it too though so don't get me wrong. I like trying out new things.
I am From Uganda East Africa Thank you for Discussion
that is what happened to me @31:00 i learned Revit at my 2nd year (we study for 5 years) i feel i never learned how do design because i was limited by it.
Fantastic Information based on BIM Building Information Module...
revit has limitation in design and exploration but the introduction of RHINO.INSIDE , has kinda bridged the gap . now u can sketchit , analyse it in rhino and when ur okay with it then using grasshopper have it documented in Revit. the worries of BIM in my opinion seem to be addressed with RHINO.INSIDE
Hi Sentumbwe! Rhino inside is great! Amazing. Thx for the comment!
Interesting podcast. Creative design & exploring ideas often is better with just sketches before trying out spacial considerations. Zaha Hadid architects typically do a lot of their modelling with 3ds max or rhino as its much more versatile. Even sketchup is better for ideas. Bim really is for virtually constructing your designs with all stakeholders & contractors & solving constructability problems early whether thats structure M&E or architecture but yes it requires all teams to work with each other and share their updates to models so information isnt kept in silos.
I've worked in more than 100 projects in early phases, and I wouldn't use anything else but a BIM-software. Just because it's BIM doesn't mean you need to take advantage of all its features from start, you can let your project grow by time and no need to decide everything the second you open a new project.
EVERYTHING you can do in Rhino, you can do with a BIM-software* if you just learn it correctly. Whatever you can do in Illustrator, you can do with a BIM-software* - it's vector driven. I think the problem is that people get overwhelmed with how many things they can do, that they think they have to do everything which is not true.
There's so much more to BIM than you might think. If you can't convert whatever is in your head to a 3D model in a BIM-software it's not the software there's something wrong with - you just don't know your tool.
I'm a bit tired of this discussion and can't believe it's still going on after so many years. Realise that the market has changed and adapt to it by learning its tools. If you think the tool is preventing you to create good design then most likely it's you who prevent yourself by not learning the tool inside out! Back in the days architects needed to learn how to draw by hand, nowadays you need to learn how to draw in 3D, simple as that.
Although, one thing I can agree on is that with BIM being such a big part of the market nowadays I do agree that architects have a bigger role than previously and should be compensated for that. Learning BIM is considered technically intermediate (while learning a programming language is technically advanced in comparison), and it's sad that the value of an architects work does not reflect on the work they (we) actually do.
* BIM-softwares like ArchiCAD
BIM is essential to moving the AEC industry forward. I'm sure you are well aware that the Construction industry is incredibly unproductive. As Architects you have to accept that you contribute to this problem. Clients pay huge amounts of money for a building that is constructed on time, on budget and delivered to a good level of quality. The amount of cost savings and efficiencies that come from creating a highly detailed and coordinated model that can be relied upon is huge. This industry needs to care less about fulfilling an architects personal need to express themselves through a slow and expensive design process and more time on delivering a quality, cost effective result to the person that pays their bill. Get over yourselves and start helping solve the issues that bog our industry down.
Pobcast sounds like amateur hour..