Why she left architecture.
ฝัง
- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 25 ก.ค. 2020
- In this video, I have a conversation with Evelyn Lee. We discuss how she pivoted her career from Architecture to tech, now working as a Senior Experience Designer at Slack. We discuss her career journey, her multiple career pivots, and the urgent need for the architectural profession to evolve.
With her background working in fast-growing industries, her point of view on the architecture industry is unique and, I think, essential if we want to stay relevant in this FAST changing world.
2:14 - Evelyn's career transitions
10:14 - Changes in the industry of architectural practice
25:54 - Tips for young architects
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I'm Dami, a licensed Architect living in Vancouver, BC. I make videos about architecture, career, and creativity.
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Are you thinking about having a career transition from architecture?
Yes, indeed. I'm at a busy crossroads and don't know how to cross the intersection...
Actually, I would like to work as an architect in the fashion industry, like an architect for big brands flagship stores, in galleries... and fashion shows setting like OMA does with PRADA for example, but it's really hard to find my path and be able to get into this... But at least I'm trying to finish the Arch Master
Vancouver looks more interesting by your every stream 👋🏻
I wanted to switch into UI/ UX career,
Can you make any video with UI/UX designer and talk about their scope in near future
A YEAR LATE, but i seriously am thinking about having a career transition
The world moving faster than what we thing and our passion also changing faster than what we expected. I am in my third years to practice architecture in real world and found it totally different from what I expected. Thinking of changing to project management or MBA. This is a great interview to open career path for those architect who stuck in one place.
I think architecture school teaches you a lot of universal skills but yes I think the fastest way to transition or explore different career paths is doing another degree. Sounds very exciting!
This was a very enjoyable video to listen to while I worked. Love hearing perspectives from like minded individuals.
Thanks for this interview with Evelyn, Demi. Evelyn's experience in strategy was quite illuminating. After finishing my master's at TU Delft and now doing my accreditation in London, I'm starting to doubt if the path as an architect to principal (be it through a company or setting your own) is worth it with such fierce competition. Looking to the future, I worry about getting fair remuneration and a decent work-life balance. I've been looking into the tech industry through Digital Product/User Experience Design, with IT jobs being increasingly in demand. I'm at a crossroads on whether I follow my 'passion' in architecture, of designing built form which is socially relevant, or designing ephemeral systems which bring people together.
No problem Harrison, glad you found it helpful!! You're considering all the right things. I would also urge you also consider your personality and how you like to work on a day to day basis. The meaning / purpose behind the work only helps so much if you don't enjoy your every day tasks. Architecture is in the end, a service industry where you are providing a service for your clients. The highest paid people in this industry are people who can get clients and can work with/ for many different (sometimes intolerable) personalities OR people who specialize in a very small niche. I've personally never been interested in working my way up to becoming a principal - the journey seems unrewarding and once you get to that point, you'll rarely be doing the thing that you love to do, which for me, is designing and building cool things. (see my interview with architect Scott Kemp for his thoughts on this and why he left his senior position at I think perkins and will) Being an architect is a fun job and I think there's lots of non traditional ways to have a financially and personally rewarding career in architecture, but you kind of have to pave your own path and design your own career! Curious to see what you end up deciding on :)
The awareness campaign aspect of these informational articles is arguably the most important part, Thank-you so much for the introduction to another genius in the community, watching you both communicate is actually quite impressive. I've enjoyed a couple of your videos DamiLee & certainly will return to review everything it's a fantastic resource for sure.
Glad you enjoyed it!
@@DamiLeeArch I didn't enjoy it, just came to hurt more, deeper, more complex pain, this is so fucking wrong
Glad you're enjoying it
I really needed to hear this. Thank you! I hope those resources mentioned in the bed of this video are still available.
From what I gather, it sounds like: 1. teach yourself that new skill (online or through school) and 2. try to do as many informational interviews as possible with ppl in that field
Amazing! I am grateful for your videos. I always learn sth new. I want to go into an architecture career & I am transitioning from the coaching & consulting industry. This video was beneficial for me to make sense of what I already intuited; designing spaces needs a solid relationship with the end-user & qualitative research is essential to give it a soul to the architectural design.
That would be an interesting transition, and I'm sure a lot of those skills would benefit you in architecture. In fact, good soft skills are in high demand 😁
Hey Dami love your videos ❤
Well I am studying architecture but I always feel like an outsider. I hope I can find a project that ignites the love and passion . Still waiting…
You look elegant and whenever I watch your vlogs, it gives me immense pleasure and you bring in so.much positive vibes.
Great conversation. Definite things to think about and contemplate about the profession.
Thank you both for the wise advices! I have learnt a lot
My pleasure! Evelyn has many more years than me in her career and I definitely learned a lot from her :)
Architecture is not a good profession, then, if so many 'architects', most of them young, end up doing something else soon. Why go through so much study and trouble, then? Many become programmers, other become modelers, others become teachers or online "coaches". Very few want to really practice architecture as a lifetime decision.
I like being an architect! Even if I won the lottery and didn't have to work, it's something I would continue to do. 😊
I would take the morality out of it; the profession is neither 'good' nor 'bad', it's rather a question of whether it's a 'good enough fit' for a young practitioner at a given time in a given place. I've already started my transition from architecture into tech but can readily admit that my architectural education, experience and ability to manage projects and present value to clients are transferable skills that are remunerated in the tech field. It all comes down to young practitioners knowing themselves and what they want to get out of a career and personalising it, rather than blindly following a preset path which may or may not make sense for you as an individual. The 'study and trouble' are the study and trouble of knowing how to iterate designs, honing design intuition, knowing how to pitch to clients and stakeholders and many, many other skills. Just because you learned these skills in one field does not mean that that field owns you for life. YOU OWN YOURSELF and you are the person you need to prioritise in your career, whether you are seeking a field with better work-life balance, more flexibility, more adaptability to technological changes, satisfaction in not having to wait years to see something you've designed come to life and benefit clients... I personally think it's a GOOD thing that rather than spending DECADES wondering whether the problem is them, that the 'young end up doing something else soon'. It shows a degree of self-awareness which is promising for the future and for all the creative problem solvers who want to make a difference in the world, regardless of the field. Life and careers are journeys; enjoy them both.
@@DamiLeeArch I second this. Good things are never easy. Only difference is, if I win the lottery tomorrow, I will still continue working/making architecture but drop the Clients and just pursue my own projects, i.e. Architect Developer.
@@ZeeDeveel19 this is also what i want to do haha, can I approach architecture in an intellectual property/business perspective? Like designing a structure/system "ONCE" that can be use/modified anywhere..? Design/engineer ONCE and SELL for eternity? (If there are still customers of course haha)
Serendipity
Wow, Evelyn's path is totally resonating with mine! I am actually doing my master in anthropology(I also thought about about MBA before as well) and hope I can use this different perspective to look at human behavior and can impact in design as a design strategist. I have been working in architecture for 11 years and I am a total multi disciplinary thinking person. I think in this fast changing time, having multiple different specialties is definitely beneficial. The main frustration for was lack of insights of users similar to Evelyn and its has been bothering me for several years. I also hear frustration a lot among my friends in architecture and I think it might be relate to the amount of work we do is not total justify. But more importantly, I think the architecture industry as a massive entity and the mundane administration often erase the connection in the individual level that loses the focus of pure creation. That was my point of view and it might be different for people depends on their experiences. Her sharing helps me reorganize my thoughts and reflect on my career path as well, great work! Thank you!
Fantastic, this is helpful.
I’m on the opposite end. Transitioning from Tech into Architecture.
Thank you, ma’am :)
loved this conversation. As an inspiring architect still in school seeking for internships, I have had a lot of questions about the future and how my career will change and develop so this was definitely helpful, thank you!
No problem! Yes I think if there's one thing I'm taking away from my conversation with Evelyn and Scott Kemp, it's that you need to design your career, as much as you spend time designing buildings.
Thank you for the interview
I love Architecture and it’s so hard live designing so that’s why now I’m developing projects to investors, cause I want be always be an architect for hobby and never hate the profession for money
It was brilliant Dami Lee. I am 30 and working towards it.
Can I just say how great this page is and I'm in love with the host ,lol;)
Wow!!!! This is good! Very valuable! Thank you so much you two.
Hi! I'm so glad you found it helpful! are you thinking of career transition?
@@DamiLeeArch I'm actually enrolling to start an architectural technician program at Algonquin College here in Ottawa starting in January. I've heard amazing things about it.
I previously worked at a group home for adults with disabilities, and as a video advertiser... So it's quite a shift. Hearing about people's career paths with architecture gives me a lot of insight. I want to be able to work as creatively as possible, while also being as community service oriented as possible.
I have so many questions as I'm just beginning navigating this profession, and I don't want to set out on the wrong path! Especially since I'm 26 and don't have as much room to stumble around as an 18 year old would.
The space you give to your guests to express their personal evolutions in the field is exactly what I needed. I'm watching your video with the architect from B.C. now!! :)
@@tommylandrix6070 That's so great! Being in the industry, I've only spoken to people moving OUT of architecture so I'm heartened to hear that you're transitioning INTO it. You're probably at the perfect age to try something new. I remember people in my class who came from other backgrounds had so many more interesting experiences to pull from, and had more interesting projects, than those of us who came right out of highschool ^.^ Also, Evelyn mentioned her colleague who recently transitioned from arch. to tech in her mid 40s! I think it's inspiring when people continue searching for the work that that they find meaningful. It's so easy to get stuck into the routine of things as we get older. I'm glad you found the video helpful!
@@DamiLeeArch OOoh yes. :) I sure did! Thank you so much. This deep dive format is so perfect.
Awesome interview,📐📎✏️
Thanks for sharing, nice content. Greetings from the U.A.E.
Great video!!! Keep it up Dami
Thanks Stu! Hope you found it interesting :D
Me seeing the title, and currently started architecture school
Wow! MArch to MBA to MPH?! That sounds like me. After getting my MArch I got accepted to MBA and almost started it. Just doing the BSN for the RN ..... who knows. Also considering the MSCS ..... I think I need to sit and consider what I can do from where I'm at instead of running to somewhere which may look greener ;) What does this say about me? What does this say about our society? What does this say about the myriad of people who are unhappy in their careers right now? Why are we not taught this bigger life marathon? What "class" / App / book should be taught to comprehend this space that brings anxiety and unease to so many people? This has been on my mind lately. I think the answer is more treehouses for Airbnb. Everyone likes the retreat of magic and relaxation right?
This is brilliant.
Dami can you please talk about what a project manager in Architecture does and how does the position compare to that of a traditional architect?
Yes absolutely! A project manager makes sure the project runs smoothly on time and on budget and doesn't necessarily have to be an architect or work for an arch firm.
Regarding who should keep up with who... What really needs to happen is that basic Architectural concepts need to be taught in grade school, Jr. High, and High School. Ok, these days, some high schools include it. Many do not. In my day, almost none did, especially the private high schools. Anyway, kids can learn how to use different measuring systems and ruler types. They can learn to convert ratios. They can learn how to do basic manual and CAD drafting skills. They can be exposed to different architectural design types. The history books can include a little more information about both architecture and art of various periods. Kids can be taken on "field trips" to home improvement centers and stores, where experts talk about different types of fixtures, appliances, and plumbing/electrical parts, and so on. No one needs to be hit over the head with all this stuff at the last minute when they're 18 or 19, and then told, "Oh, look! You get to spend the next 10 years of your life learning this!" That's absurd. The most anyone should have to do by the time they reach college is maybe 2 years of in-classroom learning and then a couple years of internship. By then, they ought to have been properly prepared to take all those exams to get certified. Also, all the fees involved after getting licensed should be tax-payer-supported for the first couple of years after an Architect gets licensed. It's kind of screwed up to waste so much time and money on something that's just going to put a new Architect into debt, right out the gate.
gorgeous ❤️
@39:50 "five figures" is somewhere between $10,000 and $99,999.99
My daughter is a senior in high school and she wants to be an architect. She is trying to figure out what she should be looking for in school programs.
I would encourage her to focus on learning how to program and code - then she can work for a software company within the architecture industry. She will have a much better quality of life and a more future proof career. If she really feels like she's missing out she can always do a 3 years masters in architecture after working in programming field for a little. Or, if she's insistent on architecture just let her know its totally ok to switch if she doesn't like it in the first semester.
She should focus on getting in the workforce or internships early on to get a sense of how they run. She can sit in classes. Find avenues they are low cost of entry. Contract or freelance work are good starts.
gonna look for 13:50
👍👍👍👍
Damilee >>>>>Gin>>>>>>
This is how I felt about practicing law. Many pivots. Needing to connect more with people before they have problems. How much debt did this cost you?
I finished everything with around $50k after my bachelor's and masters..! But there's many factors that would change this, eg. I worked btw barch. And MArch, I got a scholarship, and I also moved out (did not stay at my parents)
I am Indian who love to study architecture but as we are lower than the middle class and I am a girl I must take my family on my shoulders so I fear of getting less salary 😭🥺
shall I proceed to take that carreer or not ? I am at the middle of that! 🥺
@@bharathikottiswaran3913 I feel for you. The B. Arch. course itself is a very expensive one. You will have spend a lot apart from your tuition fee, for the models, prints, case study, software classes, tours etc. After you finish the UG you will be paid literally nothing compared to the expenses you have. It is a very unrewarding career in and around the area I work ( Chennai). If you are going to take up architecture , you will have to tolerate the substandard working conditions and the meagre salary for good number of years in the beginning of your career to be able to reach a point in your career when you will actually be able to afford a life for you and your family. But we have to survive till then right? Already the work will make you tired and you will hardly have time to practice anything in part time to earn more. Even if you finish your assigned work on time , you would be given innumerable unwanted corrections that will ultimately make a round and probably will be the same as how you started it on the first place. I am sure architecture is a very passionate career. It can open up our minds to learn so much and take so many risks. But I personally wont suggest pursuing it if you have a family to look after. So , to answer your question, yes it pays less. If you are in TamilNadu / South India , your initial salary will be around 8k to 15k which is never going to be enough.
@@bharathikottiswaran3913 These were the bad side if architecture. Architecture is a beautiful pursuit. You will learn so much; art, design, graphic design , hands on site work, softwares, so many different kinds of architectural styles , places, you will get to travel a lot, learn from amazing teachers who have great theoretical knowledge. There’s the next problem. Our government made it illegal for professors to have a professional practice outside of teaching , so they wont be equipped to teach you about real life problems and ideas in the profession. so you wont have any strong knowledge in the industry application. Theres beauty in learning architecture but its sad that it’s difficult to make a living out of it.
Are you Sami or Dami?
It's good to sleep while you are speaking.)))
Internships?
Great, do you ask a plumber to do a pro bono job too?
Dami I think this woman doesn’t know anything she is talking about
As for Instagram (or similar) ads, the thing is, if people really are interested and know that you and they are a good fit, they'll look for your contact form. Capturing every last visitor's information comes off as a little desperate. Also, most people don't want to give their contact information to random websites they visit, even with SSL certificates in place, because they then have no control over what's done with that information they just gave out. It's obtrusive, even rude, to bait-and-switch, where they were led to believe they were visiting a full fledged, informational or even interactive website, just to be hit in the face with a "Contact Us" form or some sort of demanded login or whatever. People want to drive around and see if what you put on your site attracts them to you!
I've done web design since the '90s. The best approach is to have either a contact link (in the header or footer of every page, or in left or right-side menus on the page), or to include a miniature contact form on the left or right sides of the page that only asks for a name (whatever they want to give, leave the character rules for this form field open-ended), an email address, a message field, and a captcha. Then set that up to send a confirmation email letting them know you received their message and will respond to them within a day or whatever. But the bulk "real estate" (usable area) of the web page or website should be information about you, your services, your fees, your whatever. They are there to get to know *you!*
Sure, you may miss some contacts this way, but really, they weren't good matches to begin with. Setting your website up this way, where the ad links come to pages designed that way, is the best way to get more of the best business fits between you and your visitors. It's also a great approach to avoiding bots filling out your forms, because users actually have to work to get to or use the forms (so they have to be real people). That doesn't always work (some bots are AI driven and can do that anyway), but it still cuts down on the bot traffic.