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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 7 ต.ค. 2014
- seedbed.com
Seedbed's mission is to gather, connect, and resource the people of God to sow for a great awakening. // Find out more and join the awakening journey! seedbed.com
Where did Rapture theology come from? In this Seven Minute Seminary, Ben Witherington III explains that Rapture theology and its parent, Dispensationalism, are new ideas that were birthed in 19th century. He continues to work through the history of the belief and explains how it became a popular movement in the United States.
Watch Part II, dealing with the biblical passages on the Rapture, here: • Where Did Rapture Theo...
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Seedbed Rapture theology came from 1st Thessalonians 4:16-18 . Margaret MacDonald was post Tribulation, read her actual words
read 2nd thess , maybe you will find out more. also read ather books in the bible.
Once a person comes to understand the New Covenant promised to Israel and Judah in Jeremiah 31:31-34, which is found fulfilled by Christ during the first century in Hebrews 8:6-13, and Hebrews 10:16-18, and specifically applied to the Church in 2 Corinthians 3:6-8, and Hebrews 12:22-24, the Two Peoples of God doctrine of modern Dispensational Theology falls apart, and the pretrib removal of the Church falls with it.
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Genesis of Dispensational Theology
th-cam.com/video/Ee4RS5pDntQ/w-d-xo.html
@@JamesJohnson-re9zw You are correct. And Darby pronounced her channeling of spirits was demonic. Demonically run people are everywhere lying to people who just take their word for the meaning of a scripture and think they have been scholarly.
Even the sermons of early the Church fathers preached the Pre-Trib rapture.
Ask yourself this question; Did you first learn about the pre-tribulation rapture through reading the Bible, or through some preacher or book author? Any NORMAL person simply left alone to read the Bible would never come away from it seeing any pre-tribulation rapture theology.
Grace And Peace, BT. Actually, I am ABnormal, because I have "left ALL religions," and now am
"simply Left ALONE With *God's Holy Word, And The **_Teacher!_** (1 Corinthians 2 : 13 KJB!)*
Now, Exactly HOW is it that, *After Prayerful/Careful Examination Of ALL Of God's **_Evidence,_*
I "would NEVER come away," with:
*Great GRACE PRE-TOJT Departure!* {aka rapture}? {see "Previous Post" to Mary} God Bless!
Saint Christopher
Dispensationalism came from theosophy!
@@mimisgirls1 Some of Christ's first words in the Olivet Discourse are, "...see to it that no one deceive you...".
Mary Nunnally Jesus spoke in parables... indeed it is a mystery... there is no mystery or hope in a post tribulation rapture... how is it that the Thessalonians thought they missed it if Paul taught them it was at the very end. Besides it is a custom for the bridegroom to go away and build a place fire his bride... and then to come back unexpectedly with the blowing off the shofar... also the harvest cycle is clear picture of how the Father will harvest his people from the field...
Amen, Ezekiel 13:17 says the God is against the false teachers that teach his children to fly to save their souls. The 7th Trump is called his 2nd coming, His birth was his first coming.
You stated that “only a minority of Protestants have embraced this theology”. Wow, my experience is that many in America embrace it.
Witherington is not accurate about many things. Many of the early church fathers taught the rapture including Eusebius, Irenaeus, Cyprian and Efraem of Nisibis. "“The coming of the Lord is nigh, believe you me, because the end of the world is at hand, because it is the very last time. Or do you not believe unless you see it with your eyes? See to it that this sentence be not fulfilled among you of the prophet who declares: "Woe to those who desire to see the Day of the Lord!" Because all saints and the Elect of the Lord are gathered together before the tribulation which is to about to come and are taken to the Lord, in order that they may not see at any time the confusion which overwhelms the world because of our sins. And so brothers, most dear to me, it is the eleventh hour, and the end of this world comes to the harvest, and angels, armed and prepared, hold sickles in their earth exists with blind infidelity, arriving at its downfall early.” Efraem 373 AD.
On the subject of the Rapture, in Against Heresies, Church Father Irenaeus describes the pre-tribulation Rapture when he writes: And therefore, when in the end the Church shall be suddenly caught up from this, it is said, “There shall be tribulation such as has not been since the beginning, neither shall be.”
In 1200 Brother Dolcino taught that "the Antichrist was coming into this world within the bounds of the said three and a half years; and after he had come, then he and his followers would be transferred into Paradise, in which are Enoch and Elijah. And in this way they will be preserved unharmed from the persecution of Antichrist. And that then Enoch and Elijah themselves would descend on the earth for the purpose of preaching against Antichrist.
In 1590, Francisco Ribera, a Jesuit scholar, taught that the Revelation of John was in the future, the “end times” and also taught that a Rapture would happen 45 days before the end of a 3.5-year tribulation.
Increase Mather (1639-1723), was a pastor, scholar, and was the first President of Harvard College. Paul Boyer has noted that this Puritan scholar proved "that the saints would be caught up into the air beforehand, thereby escaping the final conflagration." This teaching from Increase Mather was an early formulation of the Rapture doctrine.
Joseph Mede, (1586-1683) called the “Father of modern interpretation” wrote in 1672, "I will add this more, namely, what may be conceived to be the cause of this RAPTURE of the saints on high to meet the Lord in the clouds, rather than to wait His coming to earth....What if it be, that they may be PRESERVED during the Conflagration of the earth and the works thereof, 2 Pet.3:10, that as Noah and his family were preserved from the Deluge by being lift up above the waters in the Ark; so should the saints at the Conflagration be lift up in the clouds unto their Ark, Christ, to be preserved there from the deluge of fire, wherein the wicked shall be consumed?" ("The Works of Joseph Mede," 1672, London edition, Book IV, p.776)
Witherington is not accurate in claiming that the rapture originated with John Darby.
@@rickdalbey6009 While I truly appreciate your research on this topic. I simply cannot find proof in scripture that: Jesus will descend from heaven to the clouds above the earth, rapture his church to himself. Reverse direction, and take the church to heaven for seven years while tribulation plays out on earth. And then after seven years Christ returns to earth with the Church. Then sets up his millennial kingdom on earth. Scripture is clear, Christ will return one time, at his physical second coming. Nowhere in scripture are told to expect Jesus to appear twice. God Bless You Brother !
@@markschneider8103 The Harpazo, the "snatching away" is a coming for Christians only. Jesus does not set foot on earth, instead we are caught up in the clouds to meet Him in the air and proceed on to heaven as 1st Thessalonians teaches. This is the thief in the night, the silent burglar who comes in the window and removes the valuables before anyone notices. When that which restrains is removed (spirit filled Christians, the Church) evil escalates rapidly during a 7 year period. The wrath of the lamb is visited on the earth. Christians do not undergo the wrath of the Lamb. God pivots to revive Israel. Finally at the great world war of Armageddon Jesus returns to earth with his saints and He stays on earth to rule. This time He is not a thief in the night but every eye can see him. This what the early church fathers Until Augustine who treated the book of revelation as Metaphorical instead of future history. With the reformation, truth was restored and this is now what most evangelicals believe and teach, including most Baptists, Assembly of God, etc.
Yes, but the USA accounts for about 5 percent of the world's population, and despite the wealth of its megachurches it is only one among several countries or regions where Christianity exerts powerful influence.
It could also be that Christians who advance this theology also tend to be quite vocal in expressing their views. I happen to be quite vocal online, and i was once accused of promoting Dispensationalism when I was doing nothing of the kind.
I live next door to the US, and in the churches I've known well the subject is never mentioned. However i do hear Christ's Second Coming mentioned every Sunday. Now isn't that curious?
@@marcusonesimus3400
Christ said that HIS generation would see his coming. He did say that in his Olivet discourse.
So , whether Jesus is a liar or we have to seriously reconsider our eschatology .
In Revelation , when adressing the sevan Asian churches , he said that he WAS coming SOON. That the time was NEAR and John was told not to seal the prophecies of the book contrary to Daniel who was told to seal them because the time was NOT yet.
What on earth do words mean ? Nothing ? Soon does not mean soon , near does not mean near , at hand does not mean at hand ?
So , why are those words used ?
Often, people keep their focus on this theology instead of actually living the Gospel teachings, which is supposed to be our main purpose of this life !!
We do not live the gospel. We receive the free gift of eternal life. First Corinthians 15:1-4 is the gospel we believe. Romans 1:16. For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ, for it is the POWER of God unto salvation to everyone that BELIEVETH, to the Jew first, and also to the Greek. John 6:47. John 3:18. First John 5:13. these things have I written unto you that BELIEVE on the name of the Son of God, that ye may KNOW YE HAVE ETENAL LIFE.
Lol good point but order from chaos is useful for the elites.
@apocolypse11 Jesus had warned about all these false prophets!! Really can't trust anything after Paul !! The fake that they are !!
@@jimkraft9445the actual Israelites or descendants of Jacob are the white western European people nations not these people claiming to be. So how does that fit with any of these so called end times prophesies?
@@todddavis4586 The Jewish nation are all the descendants of Abraham Isaic and Jacob. God told Abraham to leave the land he was in and I will show you a land for you and your descendants. Romans 4:2. For if Abraham was justified by works, he would have something to glory in, before men, but not before God. Romans 4:3. Abraham believed God, and was justified by faith 430 years before Moses gave the law.
The Jews as a nation rejected Jesus as their Messiah. They put him on the cross. The Jewish nation is still alive and well all over the world. They are all the descendants of Abraham. The Germans under Hitler tried to exterminate the Jewish nation.
Many of them will be saved during the tribulation. Revelation 7. Both Jews and Gentiles.
The rapture of the church, the body of believers will happen before the 7 year period of Jacobs trouble, the tribulation. First Corinthians 15:51-53, and First Thessalonians 4:13-18. The dead in Christ shall rise first, and then we which remain will be caught up together with them to meet the Lord in the clouds.
Jesus does not come back to earth until the end of the 7 year tribulation period.
John 5:24. John 6:47. John 10: 28-29. John 3:18. Romans 3:26-28. For He is the JUST and the JUSTIFIER of them that BELIEVE in Jesus. Where is boasting then? It is excluded. By what law? By the law of works? Nay, but by the law of FAITH. Therefore, we conclude a man is JUSTIFIED by faith apart from the deeds of the law. For by the law shall no flesh be justified, Galatians 2:21. I do not void the grace of God, (Romans 11:6) For if RIGHTEOUSNESS come by the law, then Christ died for nothing.
Romans 1:16. For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ, (First Corinthians 15:1-4) For it is the POWER of God unto salvation to everyone that BELIEVETH, to the Jew first, and also to the Greek. Romans 6:23. For the penalty for sin is death, but, the good news, THE GIFT OF GOD IS ETERNAL LIFE, through Jesus finished work on the cross. Second Corinthians 5:21. Second Corinthians 9:15. Thanks be to God for His UNSPEAKABLE GIFT, ETERNAL LIFE. John 3:18.
I so agree that the "Left behind Theology needs to be left behind". Please Lord, open your people's hearts and minds to your Truth!
Amen.
So where do you place Matt 25:10.?
I place it with the other parables in chps 24 & 25, describing the End of the Age. I know of no where that it says His Coming Parousia will be a SECRET. @kennethstalley351
@@kennethstalley351 ,, Those foolish virgins didn't have enough oil in their lamps ; ( they did not have enough biblical truth sealed in their minds ) , so they will end up believing the rapture lie, and thus will worship satan, the antichrist when he comes claiming to be Jesus returned, really believing that he is Jesus. They quit watching for the true Christ, because they thought He had already come to rapture them away.
When the true Christ, our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ returns at the last trumpet, he is coming here to the earth, and expecting a virgin bride when he returns.
God Himself in Ezekiel chapter 13 KJV, tells us that He is against those that teach His children to fly to save their souls.
Why ? Because those being taught that lie, are being led to worship the first Christ to arrive on scene , the antichrist.
So the door will be shut, and Jesus will say, " I never knew you, depart from me ye worker of inequity. "
You are brainwashed, no less! Wake up, O sleeper, and rise from the dead, and Christ shall shine on you!
Paul te Apostle said, that he was speaking this "BY THE WORD OF THE LORD" ans NOT hru his own preplanned forecasts! read 1 Thessalonians 4:13-18 carefully, and may The Lord help you!
I was brought up in this theology in the late 60s when I became a Christian through the Jesus movement. Everyone I knew seemed to carry a Schofield Bible and all the discussions about eschatology came from the Schofield notes. But I began to wonder about this teaching, as I simply read the Bible and saw that what was being taught, wasn’t necessarily what the Bible actually said. It wasn’t till I went to seminary, Gorden - Conwell, And learned hermeneutics and exegesis, that I was able to simply let the text speak for its self, without coming to it, and forcing presuppositions on it. Unfortunately, I see this false theology, becoming more and more popular with Christians today as the times get more evil. I think Christians love the idea of not having to suffer and not having to go through tribulation. But this has never been God’s pattern throughout the history of his people.
So true, that's right.
I never read notes. I never read the subtitles. They all attempt to usurp our relationship with the Holy Spirit. He teaches us. Not some man’s notes. * The problem with the teaching in the video is that he relates it as if it all transpired as random events, ,chance. Really, the men involved are satanists. Everything they did, they plotted. It is possible the story about the little girl’s dream is also fabricated.
Mark, rapture theology and pre minimalism are extremely well documented to have been around for the entire church age. People have got to stop trying to pretend they are modern or late theologies when we have so many documented examples of these things in the early church fathers. In fact the early chruch in the first 2-3 centuries was UNIVERSALLY pre millennial and much more in line with that wing of eschatology then you are apparently aware. There were varying views on the exact timing of the rapture but not so much on most eschatological views.
Christians have been suffering for 2000 years, Christians have dealt with persecution and suffering for the entire Church age. Its never stopped, its just varied based on where you lived. The notion that Christians would rather escape suffering has been a universal with of all Christians for 2000 years. The only people who desire special suffering and persecution are those who have far deeper issues that just how they read the Bible. What your view really espouses is a SPECIAL suffering just for the last generation of saved Christians that the previous 2000 years did not have to experience. If they are already saved by faith and do not have to "earn" salvation as the gospel teaches, then why would they have to go through a special testing the previous generations did not? Otherwise you are just arguing for the same persecution Christians have endured for the last 2000 years.
I was brought up hearing about the dispensationalist rapture doctrine, but I never believed in it because I could see from examining scripture that it is not biblical. On the contrary, Jesus PROMISES tribulation in his Olivet discourse and it is obvious that neither Jesus nor Paul taught anything resembling dispensationalism. When I see on TH-cam so many titles of people making crazy predictions, I keep reminding myself that everyone should be prepared because of the certainty of death instead of concentrating on the rapture. We will lose future chances to do good for God because of our limited life.
@@pkoden19 My man the rapture is the Resurrection of the dead in Christ. Its incredibly ironic that you point to the oilvet discourse because its given 3 times in the NT and guess what they all have in common.....NO MENTION OF THE RESURRECTION OF THE DEAD.
In fact you can look at ALL the key 2nd coming passages in in the Bible......Matt 24, Mark 13, Luke 21, Zechariah 14, and Revelation 19 and guess what every single one of them has in common? NO RESURRECTION OF THE DEAD.
You don't even seem to be aware of the fact that in Revelation 19 the Bride is show already with Jesus before the 2nd coming even begins, and no longer called a bride but now called WIFE.
Its just incredible, you point to something that is not even written and does not even exist in the Bible as thinks its proof of its existence.
People take such harden positions on scripture and yet they are not even aware of what it says.
I’ve struggled with Rapture, having gone back and forth. What I do know, which upsets most people solidly into Rapture, is at some point we will have to go through some sort of persecution or other distress even if we are caught up. I live in the US. People are soft. Forgetting the discussion for a moment, I believe many believe in Rapture as a promise to escape the hard times ahead. If we go up, great. If not, we will have some degree of protection from our God and the strength to endure.
9 For God did not appoint us to wrath, but to obtain salvation through our Lord Jesus Christ, 10 who died for us, that whether we wake or sleep, we should live together with Him....Paul is speaking of Jacob's trouble, called "Tribulation" in Matthew 24.
best explaination I've heard yet!!!@@nickma71
AMEN!@@nickma71
@@aubrey1008 Translation problems don't help. There are 2 very different meanings for the word "faith". And Apostasy is often wrong too. It means to leave a place, to depart. Not change your mind. The man of sin is not revealed until the departure of the church.
To understand rapture :please read :1Corinthians 15: 50- 58, 1 Thessalonians 4:13-18, rapture will be happened after seventh trumpet was blown . When rapture happens, Christians will be up in air and meet Jesus Christ then stay with Him forever.Second coming of Christ is : Christ will land on Mount of Olive,that will happen after seven bowls of wrath were thrown to earth and will be on a latter date than rapture, When the seven bowls of wrath were thrown, Christians were raptured already and will not suffer from the bowls of wrath from the Lord
I belong to a couple of Facebook groups about the rapture (just to see what's going on and to provide some challenging ideas) and I have to say it's horrendous what people are putting themselves through and the hope they have for the rapture. I constantly read people actually saying" Things are so bad, I can't take it anymore, get me out of here, I want the rapture to happen now" It's like a doomsday cult at times, and also another thing that really upsets me is that, while they don't like to call it date setting (high watch days instead) they constantly search and search for the day that the rapture is likely to happen, it's like an addiction where someone says it will be this day, and they all agree and they look for the signs and wait excitedly for that day. Then, when it doesn't happen, they immediately search for the next date. It's frankly awful and very worrying behaviour.
I know, it breaks my heart too.
We can only keep praying for them, and when felt led by the Holy Spirit, share biblical truths that disprove the rapture deception.
"Things are so bad, I can't take it anymore, get me out of here, I want the rapture to happen now" While the rest of the world is actually trying to build a future, as Christians used to do.
@leviserafim3920 You mean that in the past God had wanted Christians to believe they wouldn't be living out their lives when he *knew* it wasn't going to be so?
@leviserafim3920 Do you believe in a rapture which will be coming soon?
@leviserafim3920 Will it be soon? Then define soon.
The only thing that grinds my gears about the pre-trib belief is that becoming a form of escapism for its adherents.
I totally agree. No where in the Bible states that Christ returns twice after the resurrection.
Jesus returns once. After the Battle of Armageddon. The two raptures are not to be mixed up with Jesus returning to earth to clean it up. He does this after ALL things are fulfilled. With the two raptures the bride of Christ goes up. When Jesus returns He comes down to earth to clean it up. This is after the reign of the AC and God's wrath.
Jesus came first as the lamb of God.And he will come again as the conquering lion of Judae.But before he does he will come in the air and those who have bern watching and ready will be caught up to meet him in the twinkling of an eye after the saints that are sleeping go up to meet him. firstThis is not considered the second coming.Rememberthe parable of the 7 wise and 7 foolish virgins this.When Jesus appears in the second coming he will have the saints that were raised in the twinkle of an eye. The bible say unless we are like children will shall not enter the kingdom of Heaven.I believe it is real and if it doesn't happen we will be going through it just like if i didn't believe.So Believing and being ready for the best and preparing for the worst.
Jesus' first coming ON EARTH was his birth. Jesus' second coming ON EARTH will be at the end of the 7-year Tribulation. The rapture happens in between these events - in the AIR in the CLOUDS. Not on earth. That's what Jesus revealed to Paul in his letters.
Daniel 9:24 tells us WHO the 7-year Tribulation is for and WHY. It reads: "Seventy weeks are determined for thy people." God is talking to Daniel. Who are Daniel's people? The Jews. Daniel was Jewish. Gentiles weren't Daniel's people. The church did not exist in the Old Testament. There are zero Old Testament prophecies for the Church. This seventy weeks is an everlasting prophecy still sitting out there. It hasn't happened yet. But it will for Israel to fulfill this prophecy. The church will be gone. God Bless
YOU ARE BELIEVING I LIE !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! RESEARCH YOUR RESEARCH !!!!!!!!!!!!!!
If people understood Matthew 25 they would understand when the door is shut it's shut no one can enter in afterwards. If they understand this one thing then they'll understand it contradicts any notion of a pretrib rapture. Further more if we look at the harvest and what the scriptures say about it then we should all conclude that evil is what's taken out of the way we are left behind. This is why I hold psalm 37 close to my heart. Anyhow liked what you had to say in your comment totally agree.
I remember at a previous church questioning pre-trib rapture and my pastor was like “you’re just confused”. I was like, I’m not confused, I’m just reading the Bible and saying I’m not so sure it says what you say it says. He didn’t want to hear it. Needless to say, years later I left over something way more serious than differences in eschatology.
Isnt much worse than incorrect eschatology to an end times individual.
@ StrongBad A I get "you're just confused" all over YT pretrib rapture channels. I try to plant seeds of Biblical Truth to these people but we're dealing with people who have been a spirit of strong delusion. My sister many years ago approached Hal Lindsey to question his nonsense, got in a few words before he told his people to escort her out of the building.
@@lionheartmerrill1069 Wow! Hal Lindsay. That’s a blast from the past. That must have been in the 70’s?
Unless the Pastor was taking his congregation into a very dangerous direction either regarding or fundamental doctrine or into cult-like activity.
@williamward9278 Are you familiar with the logical fallacy called “question begging”?
People just LOVE to complicate things.
Just keep focus on Jesus. What happens, happens. I dont know if we are in the end times or not, Im right now just trying to live to Jesus teachings and hopefully when I die, Jesus has mercy on me.
And have that relationship with Jesus too. Knowing that Jesus has forgiven us and we have His grace.
Not complicated, and I don't hear any preparation in 'what happens, happens'. You best take a serious look @ Scripture. Do you see what's happening?? Look at 2 Timothy ch. 3, then look around you. Or what Jesus said: Because iniquity is increased, 'the love of many grows cold' See Matthew ch. 24, 2 Peter 3. As Jesus says, Be on the alert, for MANY false prophets will arise, and deceive MANY. Are you deceived?
Ah yes....the Rapture argument again. When I got saved, I was 22 years old. I was taught about the Rapture. I was terrified I would miss it due to my shortcomings and was also terrified I wouldn't live up to expectations of living in the Tribulation. But.....that was then, now I am almost 70 years old. Time is passing me by, and it is getting late. What does it matter to me at all if there be any rapture? How much longer will I live anyway? 10 years? 20 years? 2 weeks? If I die tomorrow, praise Jesus, I will be with him and won't worry about anything anymore anyway...
I feel like Matthew 24 sums up everything nicely. As far as the rapture goes - versus 40-41 describes some will be taken and some will be left.
@@jmcdowell1972 Pre-rapture LIARS and DECEIVERS, you all will pay a very high price for your FALSE TEACHINGS...There is no such thing as a pre-rapture crap, child of satan. When you READ and COMPREHEND The Word of The Most High, the word "AFTER" is present in the events. The "AFTER, AFTER, AFTER" appears then The King and Saviour will appear. The King of Kings will not be coming 3 times. Only twice will he appear, Once, to be the ultimate scarifice and once to bring final judgement upon these worlds or countries. LIAR and DECEIVER...There is no such thing as a pre-rapture crap, child of satan. When you READ and COMPREHEND The Word of The Most High, the word "AFTER" is present in the events. The "AFTER, AFTER, AFTER" appears then The King and Saviour will appear. The King of Kings will not be coming 3 times. Only twice will he appear, Once, to be the ultimate scarifice and once to bring final judgement upon these worlds or countries.
@@jmcdowell1972 Maybe we aren't the ones taken. Maybe it's the evil ones
@@marykathaight4948 1 Thessalonians 4:15-17
15 According to the Lord’s word, we tell you that we who are still alive, who are left until the coming of the Lord, will certainly not precede those who have fallen asleep.
16 For the Lord himself will come down from heaven, with a loud command, with the voice of the archangel and with the trumpet call of God, and the dead in Christ will rise first.
17 After that, we who are still alive and are left will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And so we will be with the Lord forever.
The evil ones will not be with the Lord forever.
Exactly the left behind theology needs to be left behind.
The _Left Behind Series_ is an embarrassment to the Church. The world is laughing at us now and I believe it's led people astray.
PREACH...I am having to learn what harpazo fully means. I get "caught up" when someone even drives in my driveway, or get snatched taken from my work if I receive a delivery at my front door. There will be a loud sound, a great Earthquake, the dead in Christ will Resurrect, and that is a catching; and the Remainers in Christ will be changed at Jesus's arrival with his Army to wage War with the Nations and their Armies. The Supper is fowl eatting all the Flesh of Jesus's enemies. Revelation Chapter 19 plainly states and supports Book of Daniel to and through Revelation.
Indeed pre-tribulation Rapture and the dispensationalist view is a lie. Even back in Abraham's time for example it says Abraham believed God and it was counted to him for righteousness there's several areas throughout the Bible especially in the New Testament where it talks about this. There's no dispensationalism as it is preached among many today
@@SteveWV But now we believe in Jesus to be saved as Abraham did not know the name of our Lord Jesus. How can one not believe in dispensation when the word is used by Paul several times
@@SteveWV and no the pretrib rapture is not a lie
Hallelujah , more need to hear this. Corrie Ten Boom found the chinese church suffering unprepared because american evangelists had told them they would escape tribulation. She spent her years helping churches prepare for tribulation & Praise God the Chinese church are growing, suffering & ready.
Thank God for this brother explaining..
Corrie Ten Boom said that some preachers told the Chinese they would be raptured before being harmed, but that's NOT the pre-trib rapture doctrine. The actual pre-trib doctrine says the church will be raptured before the 7-Year Tribulation not before tribulation. And she would have had that straw man understanding in her head because she was taught by Calvinists.
What Corrie Ten Boom described was the post-trib straw man version of the pre-trib doctrine in which the church will not suffer tribulation, but that conflates tribulation with the 7-Year Tribulation. To be clear, pre-tribers know that Jesus said the church would have tribulation and it has had, but the church will be raptured before the 7-Year Tribulation.
@@biblehistoryscience3530 Jesus said no such thing as the church going thru tribulation. Scripture please. We are not appointed to wrath but salvation thru Christ Jesus. The 7 year tribulation is wrath. All 7 years
There is no preparation for going thru tribulation. How do you prepare for pestilence, famine, massive earthquakes, volcanic eruptions and tsunamis? There is no tribulation for the church.
@@thelionofjudah77u82 SEPERATING THE FINAL 7 YEARS FROM THE 70 WEEK PROPHECY OF DANIEL 9:24-27 IS UNSOUND EXEGESIS & ABSOLUTELY UNBIBLICAL...& YET THE MAJORITY BELIEVE IT...SO THIS MAN IS RIGHT,"IF ITS NEW IT CANT BE TRUE!..."THIS METHOD OF PROPHETIC INTERPRETATION WAS WHOLLY UNKNOWN FOR 18 CENTURIES...IT IS A JESUIT CONSTRUCT INTENDED TO MUTE THE TRUTH THAT THE PROTESTANT REFORMERS WERE PREACHING...THAT ROME IS ANTI-CHRIST...JUST AS MARTIN LUTHER,(& ALL OF THE OTHER PROTESTANT REFORMERS,)TESTIFIED...
THE MOST SIGNIFICANT REASON I MUST REJECT DISPENSATIONALISM/FUTURISM IS BECAUSE OF "WHY" IT WAS DEVELOPED & CAME INTO EXISTENCE...AFTER THE COUNCIL OF TRENT,(1546-1563,)IT WAS DETERMINED BY THE PAPAL HEIRARCHY THAT THE JESUITS WOULD BE COMMISSIONED TO INVENT NEW FORMS OF PROPHETIC INTERPRETATION,(IN ORDER TO LEAD PROTESTANTS AWAY FROM THEIR "HISTORICIST" CONCLUSIONS ABOUT ROME BEING ANTI-CHRIST...)SO THE JESUIT ALCAZAR INVENTED PRAETERISM & THE JESUIT RIBERA INVENTED FUTURISM...THIS IS THE TRUE ORIGINATION POINT OF THE DISPENSATIONALISM/FUTURISM OF TODAY...IT WAS INVENTED AS A MEANS OF MISLEADING & DECEIVING PROTESTANTS...FOR EVERYTHING GOD HAS,SATAN HAS A VERY CLOSELY CRAFTED COUNTERFEIT...
I found Christ in the early 70s in California when I was in the military. I had no car, so I was at the mercy of other Christians who did. So, I visited the Calvary Chapel in Costa Mesa & embraced the rapture theology. The more mature in the Lord I became & the more I read scripture I questioned a lot of what I was taught. Against the tide of what was popular, I changed my direction into a more realistic, grounded in scripture Eschatology.
Christ told us what it would be like when He returned, like the days of Noah. For as in the days before the flood, they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day Noah entered the ark, Mat.24:38. It sounds like life as normal. I am not sure about you, but when I read about the tribulation life is anything but normal with a good percentage of the population being taken killed I doubt life is normal. I'll stick with the rapture.
IDK what this video claimed, probably something about Darby starting the rapture thing... But pre-trib rapture was part of the early church teachings; check "Explosive Pretrib Info - Irenaeus Was Pretrib - Irenaeus Linked to the Apostles - TH-cam"
@@mkovis8587 Paul speaks to the church who thought they missed the rapture, not to mention Christ gave the apostles hints that they did not understand at the time.
I love Calvary Chapel, but that is their biggest doctrinal blunder for sure.
@@mkovis8587 Polycarps writings says he was taught by Apostl John the pre-trib and more wrtings recently found in the old archives and being translated say more on that. Polycarp was Johns student and co-minister fro the last 20 years of Johns life. Funny how all this is avoided by some "teachers" Scroll down through these resources. www.youtube.com/@prophecywatchers/search?query=rapture
I first learned of pre trib rapture from other believers/preachers. I never saw it in scripture. Read scripture and let scripture teach you…not some man. I believe we go thru the tribulation. Just read the 7 letters to the 7 churches….repeating them in the letters says to endure…endure….endure. So we must endure thru suffering. Stay prayed up.
Christ himself in Rev 3:10 says the church of Philidalphia will be kept from the hour of temptation. Paul says in 1 Thess 5:9 that we are not meant for wrath. 1 Thess 4:16-17 speaks to the direct event. You cant honestly say the language is not there.
For those who argue that pretrib rapturism is a bane on the church because its natural child is inactivity, (2 Thes 3:10), you need to take a closer look at the teachings and life of Paul (and Peter). Because of the disciples living with the expectancy of the imminent return of Christ, (even Peter believed this though he also clearly understood he was going to die first) it encouraged them on to greater works so as not be made ashamed at His sudden coming. "Work while it is yet called day."
All of this debate can be traced back to Origen and Augustine's implementing his hermeneutic. An immeasurable injustice has taken place all down through history to the Jews because of it both in the RC as well as many Reformational churches. Is it any wonder so many dispatch dispensationalism off hand when they believe the Church has replaced Israel in the economy of God? The first 69 wks of Daniel's prophecy were oriented toward and fulfilled entirely by national Israel. Why then should we dismiss the 70th week or even include in the Church Age? (saying it occurred in 70AD. SMH) Like the first 69 wks, the 70th week exclusively involves God's purification of national Israel to where they accept Jesus as the long promised Messiah who come to setup His sovereign rule in Jerusalem for 1000 yrs. We, the Church, are not appointed unto wrath. (Rom 8:1) Rev 6-19 is the outplaying of the wrath of God on the ungodly, even Israel when 2/3rd of Israel is killed. Eschatological doctrine is gleaned from ALL scripture, not a verse here or a verse there. And it is understood in context. Therefore Mt 25 does NOT include the Church. Christ is answering the specific question of the disciples in regards to God's promises made to Israel being fulfilled. i.e. establishment of the Davidic Kingdom rule
Well said!!!
Maranatha!!!
LOL, you're a false prophet failing in your catholic logic to interpret Hebraic scriptures with a satanic WORN OUT rhetoric pre-canned script.
NO We did NOT once even claim Christ returns before the fall feasts then the Jewish wedding CLEARLY demonstrate the LOUD Final herald TRUMP at the very "hours and DAY" the Bride thinks NOT he will show JUST like a man does to the WOMAN on earth WELL know aways have.
A Loud final TRUMP to CALL her to HOM!!
See you can't EVEN get that one point correct whatsoever!
It's In the DARK then "bride" is called, the ones that is ALL whom graft INTO the TZEMACK Root Christ.
He said NOBODY including his own countrymen 12 tribes, Get to YHVH Unless they go thru HIM First!
Thus ALL Nations as YHVH prophesied to Abraham "MANY NATIONS" means ALL on earth NOT just jews, Which ARE part of this prophetic Bride collective!!
AKA N"Israel" which is a Nation NOT a dirt floor rock mountain element land mass!
It certainly does NOT show it you have ANY real understanding of whom or WHAT Israel is.
.
I Just slaughtered your heresy Perry stone satanic Lies AGAIN!!
ALL the prophets before the 1st century Clearly spoke about the Jewish wedding event and Daniels 1335 days is 45 longer then Joels 3 /2 years or 1290 days OR Time TIMES and Half a TIMES ", etc etc.
The return is in the Darkness of the WRA under Armageddon.
THEN Yeshua takes HIS bride" off earth to Administer WRATH Upon earth and destroy the evil doers.
THATS the ONY time humans leave too escape when HE administers his WRATH targeted for the evil ones NOT his Bride.
Good grief will you ppl EVER learn what the Bible actually DOES say??
Removing his For the 1/24 of a year = 15 days when HALF that equals the ONE Hour of a half hour of SILENCE like it clearly says.
Revelation 8:1 says this!!
When the 7-Days Jewish feast occurs so he silences everything after he destroys earth once and for all.
You're as ignorant of the scriptures as it gets!
Thank you!!! Christians lean toward thinking it is ALL about the church & completely dismiss Israel. They miss the heart of the story & the apple of God’s eye. This is what happens when you interpret the Bible through your own eyes & not God’s eyes.
Well put, their issue is they cannot distinguish between Israel and the Church. It is their sloppy study of the Bible and and false doctrine of replacement theology that is the source of this position they take. They always say that the Church never taught this doctrine before as their main point. They have a weak position when held up to scripture.
@@josephd2059 Recent discoveries had shown, while dispensationalism was never systematically developed until mid 1600's, pretrib rapturism is documented in the 2nd and 3rd C. You cannot say that about the other schools which did not begin to develope until mid to late 400's.
Ultimately is believing in the rapture or not a necessary element for salvation? I say no. Then let's agree to disagree but remain loving each other and caring for each other. And stay studying and worshiping our God! Much love to all.
🤍✝️🕊️
This! 💯
The Greek word from this term “rapture” is derived appears in 1 Thessalonians 4:17, translated “caught up.” The Latin translation of this verse used the word rapturo. The Greek word it translates is harpazo, which means to snatch or take away.
And?
Good. Parousia?
To sieze, take by force. Not a good word. Wouldnt you go willingly?
@@7nflgirl rapture is a false teaching
Sir being you so well informed, maybe you should read Polycarp he was the bishop over the churches in Turkey appointed by the Apostle John and Ireanaus these two men knew John the Apostle and they taught the Rapture, and others just do so research
Thank you brother ! I have always questioned why we Christians should get out of the tribulation when the early church martyrs had to give their lives for Christ Jesus ❤️ and ✝️🛐 s
Ben Witherington is wrong is dating the rapture to an 1820 date. Consider Many of the early church fathers taught the rapture including Eusebius, Irenaeus, Cyprian and Efraem of Nisibis. "“The coming of the Lord is nigh, believe you me, because the end of the world is at hand, because it is the very last time. Or do you not believe unless you see it with your eyes? See to it that this sentence be not fulfilled among you of the prophet who declares: "Woe to those who desire to see the Day of the Lord!" Because all saints and the Elect of the Lord are gathered together before the tribulation which is to about to come and are taken to the Lord, in order that they may not see at any time the confusion which overwhelms the world because of our sins. And so brothers, most dear to me, it is the eleventh hour, and the end of this world comes to the harvest, and angels, armed and prepared, hold sickles in their earth exists with blind infidelity, arriving at its downfall early.” Efraem 373 AD.
On the subject of the Rapture, in Against Heresies, Church Father Irenaeus describes the pre-tribulation Rapture when he writes: And therefore, when in the end the Church shall be suddenly caught up from this, it is said, “There shall be tribulation such as has not been since the beginning, neither shall be.”
In 1200 Brother Dolcino taught that "the Antichrist was coming into this world within the bounds of the said three and a half years; and after he had come, then he and his followers would be transferred into Paradise, in which are Enoch and Elijah. And in this way they will be preserved unharmed from the persecution of Antichrist. And that then Enoch and Elijah themselves would descend on the earth for the purpose of preaching against Antichrist.
In 1590, Francisco Ribera, a Jesuit scholar, taught that the Revelation of John was in the future, the “end times” and also taught that a Rapture would happen 45 days before the end of a 3.5-year tribulation.
Increase Mather (1639-1723), was a pastor, scholar, and was the first President of Harvard College. Paul Boyer has noted that this Puritan scholar proved "that the saints would be caught up into the air beforehand, thereby escaping the final conflagration." This teaching from Increase Mather was an early formulation of the Rapture doctrine.
Joseph Mede, (1586-1683) called the “Father of modern interpretation” wrote in 1672, "I will add this more, namely, what may be conceived to be the cause of this RAPTURE of the saints on high to meet the Lord in the clouds, rather than to wait His coming to earth....What if it be, that they may be PRESERVED during the Conflagration of the earth and the works thereof, 2 Pet.3:10, that as Noah and his family were preserved from the Deluge by being lift up above the waters in the Ark; so should the saints at the Conflagration be lift up in the clouds unto their Ark, Christ, to be preserved there from the deluge of fire, wherein the wicked shall be consumed?" ("The Works of Joseph Mede," 1672, London edition, Book IV, p.776)
Witherington is not accurate in claiming that the rapture originated with John Darby.
I completely agree with you. Jesus was beaten to a bloody pulp and nailed to a cross FOR US I believe it's an honor to suffer for him I don't think there's a rapture but if there is I'm NOT going I'll stay and suffer and who cares if they kill us
Me too
@@herbzah5405 Because it is called the "Great Tribulation. It is not local persecution, not Roman persecution. A tribulation that has never been seen before. World-wide. Matt. 24:21 "For then there will be great distress, unequaled from the beginning of the world until now-and never to be equaled again.“If those days had not been cut short, no one would survive, but for the sake of the elect those days will be shortened. " In fact it is called the "wrath of the lamb" and the world is pelted with asteroids that kill 1/4 of the population of the world. That is 2 billion people. The seas are poisoned, a world wide earthquake happens. No earlier tribulation even compares. That is why the church is snatched up or Harpozed.
@@rickdalbey6009 The great tribulation was for the people of Israel only.
Irenaeus, a second century author wrote of the rapture. The second century church fathers were teaching the rapture. The NT writings were written in greek. The Greek word harpazo translates to rapturo in Latin and means “caught up”
Thank you!
Truth
Well this comment varies dramatically from what the video said
Would you please provide citations regarding which Early Church Fathers from any era who wrote about a pre-tribulation removal of saints? If you cannot, why assert such a thing as you have done in your first two sentences?
Hmmm but still no Rapture. Good luck with that
Thank you so much for talking about this!
Irenaeus of Lyons (AD 130-202) was a student of Polycarp (who was a disciple of the apostle John). Irenaeus moved to Rome and studied under Justin Martyr.
He was a strong opponent of heresy, and an influential witness concerning the development of the biblical canon. The significance of Irenaeus is found in his writings. There are fragments of many works, but two major works survive intact: Against Heresies and Proof of Apostolic Preaching.
Many of his writings have not yet been translated into English. Some of his writings support the rapture of the church. This being so Darby can not be said to be the beginning of teaching or the originator of the doctrine. If even one person taught it prior to Darby then he can't be the originator.
What you’re saying is just simply not true. I challenged you to source your comment.
@@mayorrodgers7446 Morgan Edwards (a Baptist preacher) was clearly teaching the Rapture in America 100 years before Darby...
This is a special topic for me. I was told long ago that I would never be able to teach in the body I was a part of or be in the ministry whatsoever if I didn't adopt pre tribulation rapture. You see people were trying to teach the body that idea, and I was personally convicted because of study in the word to pay attention to pre wrath and mid and post tribulation taking up as well. The point is that noone knows the day or the hour and we can't believe in what the word doesn't say, we have to believe in what it does say. Personally I see more of a post tribulation joining with the Lord, but I would never teach absolutes in any of this prophecy because it isn't for us to know. We will see the signs, we are seeing them now. More than ever. What is important is Christ crucified, and the salvation that gives us. What is important is our relationship with Jesus. Now I will be one to say one hundred percent that my relationship is not good, because of my own sin at this time, but I will never deny Christ in my lifetime. So who are we to divide the body because of different beliefs in this part of prophecy? How can we in good confidence divide the body because of differences?? It is the teacher who will be judged more intensely, not the student, but Judgment is for THE LORD. None of us have the authority to spread rumors or division amongst ourselves. If you fear the Lord, love Him, and your neighbor, and repent of your sin just as I need to, in MEEKNESS AND HUMILITY. With fear and reverence work out your salvation with God between you and the Almighty. Do not judge, do not become haughty-self righteous thinking that you are without sin. He is coming back when He deems fit, not when we choose it to happen. Praise the Lord God and may peace be with all of you in the new year in Jesus' name.
Amen not for us to know the hour
The thing is that if you don't believe (and do) everything the denomination teaches, you are not accepted as a trusted member of the congregation.
@@alexanderkapsiotis8050 that isn't biblical.
@@full_metal_troy8394 It is not but it is how christian denominations operate.
calvary chapel ?
my LORD will make a way, for me to endure, any tribulation..and if my life is required, i freely give it. may it bring glory to the Father, in my death...that is faith...
John saw the the REDEEMED CHURCH IN CHRIST in HEAVEN throwing their crowns at Jesus"s feet say he was worthy to open the seal judgments BEFORE the first 7 judgments were open to start the Tribulation. Try actually reading the Bible.
@@W.451 so you have no faith than?...is that what your saying friend?
@@MrTwige I'm not getting into any of your scybala as Paul said. Look up that greek word.
@@W.451 lol...so many of you are nuts and do not know a Holy Spirit!
@@MrTwige I expected such a response and you show to be a religious spirit rejecting truth. Be Gone.
Thank you‼️Please keep speaking His Truth--The Word🙌
I have abandoned this belief in recent years. This video explains so much of my biblical (mis)understanding since the late 70’s. For instance, the Rapture, Plymouth Brethren, Moody Bible Institute and the plethora of preachers on Moody Bible. Also, Ryrie study bible. Steeped in all until abt 3 yrs ago.
Where did you go from there? I agree, I really like GK Beale, Sam Storms, Sam Waldron
Finally... someone else that "gets it..." Thanks for sharing. ✌
Rapture doctrine = Blueprint for cults
Rapture brainwashes people, that there is no future in this world. They instill fear on their members. Uses the doctrine to think lowly of others.
Removes hope and happiness. They use scriptures out of the context, twist and pervert it to mean that a person's life here should be focused on making it to heaven. Infact it's all about loving, enjoying and being free!
Stop Fundamentalist Conservative Christianity! I'm a victim and I know how hard it is. I learned about it only through online. What more for the people who grew up with these doctrines being fed on them?
It seeps the life out of someone! It steals, kills and destroys!
God bless us all!❤️🕊️
If only all denominationall churches would know & understand this, its not from the early church & w/ The Holy Spirit guiding us in The Word are eyes are opened to the correct exegesis. Praise to The King of Glory Christ Yeshua
Glad you understand that!!!
Actually the oldest denominations and the majority of Christians do NOT teach the Rapture Theology. The Roman Catholic Church, the Orthodoxy, Lutheran, Anglican, and Calvinism do NOT teach the Rapture. The churches with most history do NOT teach rapture. Hollywood seemed to make the Rapture popular. The Apostles Creed teaches the resurrection of the dead and that Christ will come again.
@@Barbara-cr5zj your right, but it does seem to be a widespread belief especially in the Baptist Church, def fundamentalist, which is an awful alot of people esp in America. I've even attended one for past year, putting it aside as non essential & more focus on essentials & fellowship, but it influences more teaching & biblical understanding/interpreting than I can bear
@@J-PLeigh8409 I understand. I grew up Catholic (not anymore but still think it has many doctrines right where Protestantism is wrong). I have many scars from people in other denominations implying Catholicism is totally evil and wrong and Protestantism is 100 percent correct. They say Catholics aren't Christians and some even go so far as to say that Catholics are Satanists. I am not over the pain. I need prayers and help. I pray for those who are so arrogant and under false doctrines from all denominations. No denomination has all the truth. Please pray for me and for my scars to heal. It hurts being called a Satanist.
@@Barbara-cr5zj I know exactly what your talking about, as I grew up Catholic but went after the world & away from all religion young. Many years later when God opened the eye of my heart & I was regenerated, w/ a love for scripture, I had a problem w/ what I saw in the Roman Catholic Church & went to Protestant denom, Presbyterian then Baptist but the more I grow in the knowledge of the truth the more I see Protestant churches have their own issues & plenty that doesnt line up w/ scripture, of course as well w/ Catholicism its up for interpretation, Im almost coming 360 but issues w/ Pope & some of the added teachings worship of Mary the mother of Christ, prevent it. I've recently attended & looking into Lutheran. I believe Holy Communion should be every week & Eschatology proves to be very important & of course Essentials & Fellowship. I Never wanted to hop around looking for a church but its easier said than done, whether location, like minded believers, liberal churches, scriptural interpretation etc, its a journey of sorts. Peace & grace to you in the name of Christ Jesus
I went to a Christian school from 5th - 12th. I always got in trouble by questioning the pre-trib rapture. Even churches I've been a member of viewed me as a trouble maker for doubting it.
The phase pre-trib should be pre-wrath. Jesus said . (And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again, and receive you unto myself; that where I am, there ye may be also. 1 Thessalonians 4:17 The bible says (For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a loud command, with the voice of an archangel, and with the trumpet of God, and the dead in Christ will be the first to rise. 17After that, we who are alive and remain will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And so we will always be with the Lord.) Do not be left behind! Ben Witherington is mistaken.
If you read Revelation, you find that this "Rapture" that is spoken of is referring to what happens when Jesus comes back. We will be Raptured with him in the Clouds and will be with him as he Descends to the Mount of Olives and proceeds to do battle in the Valley of Megeddo (I hope I spelled that correct).....
The thing about the Pre-Trib Rapture theology that always baffled me was that this was inconsistent with the way in which God has operated through history, this includes the persecution of the church. I saw no reason or indication in scripture that would indicate that all of a sudden, God would change is approach to allowing the church to endure persecution for Christ's sake and in order to ensure our sacrifices are used to draw the unsaved to Himself. Again, God's desire, according to scripture, is that none should perish but that all would come to have knowledge of Him and follow Him. @@misha-elministries5246
@@misha-elministries5246 Pre-rapture LIARS and DECEIVERS, you all will pay a very high price for your FALSE TEACHINGS...There is no such thing as a pre-rapture crap, child of satan. When you READ and COMPREHEND The Word of The Most High, the word "AFTER" is present in the events. The "AFTER, AFTER, AFTER" appears then The King and Saviour will appear. The King of Kings will not be coming 3 times. Only twice will he appear, Once, to be the ultimate scarifice and once to bring final judgement upon these worlds or countries. LIAR and DECEIVER...There is no such thing as a pre-rapture crap, child of satan. When you READ and COMPREHEND The Word of The Most High, the word "AFTER" is present in the events. The "AFTER, AFTER, AFTER" appears then The King and Saviour will appear. The King of Kings will not be coming 3 times. Only twice will he appear, Once, to be the ultimate scarifice and once to bring final judgement upon these worlds or countries.
Yes but that is after all the plagues that god brings to the earth . Just like in egypt but we have the blood of jesus on us instead of on the door like in exodus
After I came to Christ in the 90ths I read the Bible and came alone to the truth of the rapture. Without any theology, simply through reading the Bible. Nobody could unterstand me at this time.
Read Kafka. Better nonsense than bible.
Exactly, i dont know where these people get off pretending rapture scripture doesnt exist. When you find the question presented on catholic answers from 1 Thess 16-17, they immediately refer to the catechism and talk about how it could just mean we rush to meet Christ when he returns. Only satan would have you reject and twist the word.
@@rickcasual The ‘We who are alive and remain’ in 1 Thes 4:15… speaks to me of those left standing, meaning those who have not been martyred before Christs coming, those who have managed to hang on through great persecution and are looking up eagerly for their redemption.
Is it your belief that the dead will also be raised in a pre tribulation rapture?
I grew up in a church that taught the rapture was true. Even as a teenager, whenever they taught from the scriptures that supposedly supported that idea, I was never convinced that was what the scripture meant. I’d see so many heads nodding in agreement around me as they listened to the preacher and I’d be sitting there, looking at my bible thinking, how did he extrapolate that from this? When I’d discuss my concerns with others in the fellowship, they’d use the man’s extensive theological training at seminary as the support for why he was right… which is NOT a reason to support anyone’s doctrine.
The head nodding in this comment section is very much bc they believe Dr Witheringtons theological bonafides. It literally what you described in reverse application.
Not much different than bill gates being knowledgeable about health.
in all these 'comments' I've not heard any verses or facts to contradict the pre-trib 'rapture'
@trallfraz *(THE SECOND COMING OF CHRIST) 5 WORDS that appear nowhere in the entire Bible
@@MichaelSmith-qc7nk Acts 1:10-11 They were looking intently up into the sky as He was going when suddenly two men dressed in white stood beside them. They said ,'Man of Galilee,why do you stand here looking into the sky? This same Jesus,who has been taken from you into heaven,will come back in the same way you have seen Him go into heaven'. This is the second coming. Please also read revelation chapter 19 that describes the second coming of Christ
I don't hang my faith on the rapture. Events will come to pass as God intends them, whether He takes the church home early or not. I am, as I like to say, a pan-tribulationist; it will pan out they way God intends it.
This is the absolute truth. Thank you God.
What the Lord told me was, if there was going to be a 'pre-trib rapture ', then there would be NO NEED to shorten the days for the Elects' sake.
Exactly! A little study of the word, and one sees how erroneous the rapture theology is.
The rapture is a demonic doctrine that exists nowhere in scripture. Its goal is to lull Christians into a false sense of security and to catch them off-guard, leaving them unprepared for the terrible tribulation to come.
Better to be a diligent student of *1st Century SCRIPTURE!* than 19-21st century sayings of men! Amen?
Either understand the systematizing of doctrine in history, or get ready to discard your Trinitarianism and Covenant Theology as well.
WHEN IS THE RAPTURE / RESURRECTION?
In Revelation 20:4-6 the last book of the Bible there are only 2 more FUTURE Resurrections (Raptures) spoken of: (after the 2 witnesses appear)
4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.
5 But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the FIRST RESURRECTION. or rapture
6 Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the FIRST RESURRECTION: on such the SECOND DEATH hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.
In the above scriptures, these are the Martyrs. John said "this is the first resurrection." John didn't say this is the "second phase of the first resurrection," as pre-tribbers claim.
If this is the FIRST resurrection, can there be a resurrection before this one? Of course not, unless you want to ADD to the bible which is forbidden!
The First Resurrection is of the dead in Christ and the Second is after 1000 years. Paul wrote that the Dead in Christ MUST rise FIRST, THEN we who are alive and remain will be caught up to meet the Lord in the air.
1 Thessalonians 4:16-17
16 ...and the dead in Christ shall RISE FIRST
17 THEN we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them...
In Rev. 20:4-5, John sees the souls of Saints who were BEHEADED for refusing the Mark of the Antichrist during the Great Tribulation. John writes that they will rise and reign with Christ for 1000 years and that this is the FIRST RESURRECTION!
If according to John, the beheaded rise in the FIRST resurrection and Paul said those who are alive and remain are not caught up until AFTER the dead in Christ are resurrected, then this means the catching up or rapture takes place AFTER tribulation!
Now compare the above with 1 CORINTHIANS 15:20-23:
20 But now is Christ risen from the dead, and become the first-fruits of those who slept.
21 For since by man came death, by man came also the resurrection of the dead.
22 For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive.
23 But every man in his own order: Christ the first-fruits; AFTERWARDS THOSE WHO ARE CHRIST'S AT HIS COMING.
Notice only one resurrection of the dead in Christ is mentioned here! Which, according to Paul in 1 Thessalonians 4:16-17 must take place BEFORE we who are alive and remain are "caught up" with them!
When did Jesus say the dead in Christ would be resurrected?
John 6:39-40: Jesus said, "This is the will of Him who sent Me, that of all that He has given Me I lose nothing, but raise it up ON THE LAST DAY.
John 6:44: Jesus said, "No one can come to Me unless the Father who sent Me draws him; and I will raise him up ON THE LAST DAY."
Is the LAST DAY the thousand year reign of Christ?
I believe so....then it is eternity and time is counted no more
So if Jesus himself said the dead in Christ will be raised on the LAST DAY, and Paul said we who are alive and remain will not be caught up (raptured) until AFTER the dead are raised, then where does secret pre-trib rapture fit in?
Paul in 1 Cor 15:52 - In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.
We are changed at the LAST TRUMP and where is this found?
Revelation 8:2 - And I saw the seven angels which stood before God; and to them were given seven trumpets.
Revelation 8:6 - And the seven angels which had the seven trumpets prepared themselves to sound.
In REVELATION, the LAST BOOK of the Bible there are 7 trumps and the 7th trump is the LAST ONE and is at the end of the tribulation
Chaplain Bob Walker B. Th. You wrote quite a bit there it would take a lot of typing to answer all your questions. I’ll point to 2. One is the Great Tribulation already happened in 70 AD just as Christ predicted. An event like no other to ever happen like it again. Revelations is now dated to have been written around 68 AD not after 79AD as previously dated. Most of the book was written to those churches at THAT time. Wouldn’t that make sense?
There is no secret rapture only CHrists return on the last day in judgment and to restore the earth back to EDen where we will live eternity here, not in heaven
Cheeky Nonconformist preach
@@scwheeler24 You're listening to cults.
I was taught that there was a Pre-Trib rapture since I was 4-5yrs old, back in the early 80’s. In 2015 I was Born Again, and began to diligently study scripture. I have ready the Bible front to back over 20X, and have spent hours studying and taking copious notes over the last 7yrs and have not found solid evidence of a Pre-Trib rapture anywhere in scripture. In fact, the key verse that Pre-trib believers run to, 1Thessalonians 4, is followed by Paul speaking on the Day of the Lord to begin Chapter 5. This tells me that we are raptured in the second Advent, the return of Christ, to claim what is rightfully HIS, Amen.
I'm not here to argue I will leave all my resources in the comment and you're free to check it out for yourself.
First, is this a new idea as the "Dr" says?
Church father Irenaeus wrote about 180AD. He was taught under Polycarp, the disciple of the Apostle John, and occasionally saw the Apostle John. Irenaeus wrote a five-volume work entitled “Against Heresies” against the cults of his day. “When in the end that church will suddenly be caught up from this, then it is said, ‘There will be tribulation such as not been since the beginning, nor will be.’” Irenaeus “Against Heresies 5.29
Ephraim 373 AD “…because all saints and the elect of the LORD are gathered together before the Tribulation which is about to commence be taken to the LORD…” On the Last Times 2-Ephraim the Syrian 373 AD.
Lactantius 304AD (initially made an error saying these writings were between 100-200 AD I had to recheck my sources for the correct date, my apologies) in his commentary of the Apocalypse that Rev 6:14 is when "the Church shall be taken away”
and there are others.
I encourage you for about $10 you can get Ken Johnson's book "The end times by the Ancient Church Fathers" where he documents the disciples of the Apostles' writings from about 100AD-400AD.
Now this doesn't mean that the doctrine is true, it simply proves it's not a new doctrine. That the assumption that this understanding never existed in church history prior to the 1800s is false.
Do I think the "left behind" series did a great job with biblical theology? No.
So let's look at some compelling Scriptures from the Bible.
In Rev 19:11-19 we see Jesus coming back. Now some debate whether this event is a literal event or not. His first coming was so why wouldn't the second coming be? Regardless, I take the event at face value.
11 Now I saw heaven opened, and behold, a white horse. And He who sat on him was called Faithful and True, and in righteousness He judges and makes war. 12 His eyes were like a flame of fire, and on His head were many crowns. He had a name written that no one knew except Himself. 13 He was clothed with a robe dipped in blood, and His name is called The Word of God. 14 And the armies in heaven, clothed in fine linen, white and clean, followed Him on white horses. 15 Now out of His mouth goes a sharp sword, that with it He should strike the nations. And He Himself will rule them with a rod of iron. He Himself treads the winepress of the fierceness and wrath of Almighty God. 16 And He has on His robe and on His thigh a name written:
KING OF KINGS AND LORD OF LORDS.
...19 And I saw the beast, the kings of the earth, and their armies, gathered together to make war against Him who sat on the horse and against His army."
Now look at Zechariah 14
1 Behold, the day of the Lord is coming, And your spoil will be divided in your midst.
2 For I will gather all the nations to battle against Jerusalem; The city shall be taken,
The houses rifled, And the women ravished. Half of the city shall go into captivity, But the remnant of the people shall not be cut off from the city.
3 Then the Lord will go forth And fight against those nations, As He fights in the day of battle.
4 And in that day His feet will stand on the Mount of Olives, Which faces Jerusalem on the east.
And the Mount of Olives shall be split in two, From east to west,...9 And the Lord shall be King over all the earth.
In that day it shall be- “The Lord is one,” And His name one...
16 And it shall come to pass that everyone who is left of all the nations which came against Jerusalem shall go up from year to year to worship the King, the Lord of hosts, and to keep the Feast of Tabernacles. 17 And it shall be that whichever of the families of the earth do not come up to Jerusalem to worship the King, the Lord of hosts, on them there will be no rain."
Notice how when Jesus returns He reigns on earth, and every year we all go up to Jerusalem to worship?
Now let's read John 14:1-6
“Let not your heart be troubled; you believe in God, believe also in Me. 2 In My Father’s house are many rooms; if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you. 3 And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again and receive you to Myself; that where I am, there you may be also. 4 And where I go you know, and the way you know.”
5 Thomas said to Him, “Lord, we do not know where You are going, and how can we know the way?”
6 Jesus said to him, “I am the way, the truth, and the life. No one comes to the Father except through Me."
The simple question we need to ask is "when"? If the LORD at His 2nd Coming comes and reigns on earth and every year we go to Jerusalem to worship Him, then WHEN does He come (verse 3 And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again and receive you to Myself; that where I am, there you may be also.)
and take us to His Father's house (Heaven) where He's been preparing a place for those who believe He's the Way, the Truth, and the Life?
Another passage to consider is Acts 1:9 Now when He (Jesus) had spoken these things, while they (His Disciples) watched, He was taken up, and a cloud received Him out of their sight. 10 And while they looked steadfastly toward heaven as He went up, behold, two men stood by them in white apparel, 11 who also said, “Men of Galilee, why do you stand gazing up into heaven? This same Jesus, who was taken up from you into heaven, will so come in like manner as you saw Him go into heaven.”
2 men (divine beings) said "This same Jesus, who was taken up from you into heaven, will so come in like manner as you saw Him go into heaven.”
"like manner" how was Jesus taken up? a cloud received Him "out of their sight". Was Jesus on a White horse? Was He wearing many crowns? Was He wearing a robe dripped in blood accompanied by the Armies of Heaven? No.
What's also interesting is that 2 divine beings accompanied Jesus into Heaven. In Genesis 18 we see 3 men, 1 being the LORD come to Abraham and later on the LORD stays with Abraham while the other 2 beings go to Sodom, to prepare it for judgment. In Rev 11:3-7 we see 2 invincible witnesses preach for 1,260 days preparing the world for judgment. Where did these 2 witnesses come from? My theory based on what I've presented in that when Jesus comes in like manner to His ascension He'll come with 2 witnesses in the clouds. He will remain in the clouds and receive us who believe in Him to Himself to take us to the place He's been preparing for us in Heaven. While the 2 witnesses remain on the earth to prepare it for judgment after the 1,260 days.
What's also interesting while I'm listing Scripture, and feel free to watch my series on "Why Study Eschatology?"
Is that in John 3:36 Jesus says
36 He who believes in the Son has everlasting life; and he who does not believe the Son shall not see life, but the wrath of God abides on him.”
Romans 5:8-9 it says
8 But God demonstrates His own love toward us, in that while we were still sinners, Christ died for us. 9 Much more then, having now been justified by His blood, we shall be saved from wrath through Him.
1 Thessalonians 5 (which ironically you mentioned) verse 9-11 says
9 For God did not appoint us to wrath, but to obtain salvation through our Lord Jesus Christ, 10 who died for us, that whether we wake or sleep, we should live together with Him.
11 Therefore comfort each other and edify one another, just as you also are doing.
Now I admit many Pre-trib Christians believe the Rapture will occur before the Seals in Rev 6. I am not claiming that. I claim that it'll be before the 7 years which begins in Rev 11, not Rev 6. (which I show in my videos)
Rev 6:15-17 says
15 And the kings of the earth, the great men, the rich men, the commanders, the mighty men, every slave and every free man, hid themselves in the caves and in the rocks of the mountains, 16 and said to the mountains and rocks, “Fall on us and hide us from the face of Him who sits on the throne and from the wrath of the Lamb! 17 For the great day of His wrath has come, and who is able to stand?”
I hope that the Rapture is prior to Seal 1, but I am prepared for it to be before Seal 6. Which is still before the 7 years. Either way what is defined (although often inaccurately understood) as the Pre-trib Rapture is a very sound doctrine. And I didn't even include 1 Thess 4:16-18. Hope this helps. Take care.
If you're interested in my series which is in-depth on all these topics here's the first video. Hope it helps. Take care.
th-cam.com/video/dzf3npIngoE/w-d-xo.html
@@mbfrommb3699 I am always open to learn & grow. This is a subject I struggle with and have no objection with those who present their views and thoughts respectfully and in Love. Thank you Brother, Be Blessed
Amen brother, you're exactly right. No rapture, just the rapture at the 2nd coming. Believers will meet (apantesis) Him in the air, and come right back down with him. That is exactly what the word means.
@@mbfrommb3699 I would question a few things in Zechariah 14 that you seem to be implying, if I may ask you two questions:
"And in that day His feet will stand on the Mount of Olives,
Which faces Jerusalem on the east.
And the Mount of Olives shall be split in two,"
Where else in the bible does God stand on the East mountain and what happened when He did?
"20 In that day “HOLINESS TO THE LORD” shall be engraved on the bells of the horses. The pots in the Lord’s house shall be like the bowls before the altar. 21 Yes, [j]every pot in Jerusalem and Judah shall be holiness to the Lord of hosts. Everyone who sacrifices shall come and take them and cook in them."
^ What does that mean to you? Do you believe people will be keep feast days and doing sacrifices?
@@mbfrommb3699 Alsoin regards to Iranaeus, you left off the next sentence of the quote you posted: ""(2) For this is the last contest of the righteous, in which,
when they overcome they are crowned with incorruption. " ---> the next sentence refutes the idea be believed in a pretrib rapture. There are a large amount of texts he mentions about going through the tribulation.
"4. But he indicates the number of the name now, that when this man comes we may avoid him,
being aware who he is: the name, however, is suppressed, because it is not worthy of being
proclaimed by the Holy Spirit. For if it had been declared by Him, he (Antichrist) might perhaps
continue for a long period. But now as "he was, and is not, and shall ascend out of the abyss, and
goes into perdition,"(1) as one who has no existence; so neither has his name been declared, for
the name of that which does not exist is not proclaimed. But when this Antichrist shall have
devastated all things in this world, he will reign for three years and six months, and sit in the
temple at Jerusalem; and then the Lord will come from heaven in the clouds, in the glory of the
Father, sending this man and those who follow him into the lake of fire; but bringing in for the
righteous the times of the kingdom, that is, the rest, the hallowed seventh day; and restoring to
Abraham the promised inheritance, in which kingdom the Lord declared, that "many coming
from the east and from the west should sit down with Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob."(2) "
@seedbed I’ve listened to several (from Orthodoxy, Catholicism, Protestant and non-denominational teachers and preachers), but this is best and most succinct explanation and debunking of the idea of rapture (as invented by Darby). Thank you
We aim for clarity as well as brevity! :) We're glad you found it helpful.
I was saved into a church that believed and still believes this unscriptural teaching. I find that many individuals secretly reject it and many of the denomination’s scholars hold to it so lightly (I attended seminary) that it seems they have intellectual difficulty with it. Still, traditions are very hard to overcome, and I believe this false teaching will prevail for many years to come in our group. Please keep telling the truth on this issue!
We'll let's see...this video didn't put up a/thing that refutes the position, so what can you offer up that validates the position YOU subscribe to, and what can you provide that debunks the pre-trib rapture position?
@@Sanslab-wu8tv Your opening statement is simply flat out incorrect. Now, you may want to double down on your claim, but had you taken the few SECONDS to search it out, you'd find NUMEROUS sites that refute the tired, worn out, & flat out claim about the rapture being "INVENTED" in the 19th century, *SMH.*
*Jan 24, 1848* probably means nothing to you, as it's clear you're no student of history, but that's the date that is attributed to INVENTING gold! That's right, gold was INVENTED that day, right? I mean, it never was in _them thar hills_ till that day, RIGHT? Pfft...we both know that gold was *D I S C O V E R E D* in California that day, not when it was invented, but look...
The argument isn't when a doctrine became POPULAR, rather it's whether or not it is grounded in the WORD. With your opening salvo, you would think that this is to be your silver bullet or s/thing, 'eh? *SMH* =====> Truth is discovered, not invented, & you basically are guilty of chronological snobbery of sorts to even come UP with that nonsense. Hey...do we toss out justification by faith due to it not being taught till the Reformation?
I would move on to take down your other nonsensical statements, but right now, I'm heading over to our son's to watch the Carolina Gamecocks take on the Clemson Tigers...far more important right now than dealing with posts such as yours.
Hey, I may entertain the thought at some other time, but meanwhile, study up my brother, for you've got a *LOT* to learn as far as end times doctrine, just sayin'. I don't say that to be condescending, but seriously my friend...that falsehood has hoisted up over, & over, & over, & over ad nauseam.
*MARANATHA!*
@@Kman. Thanks for your question. Since pre-trib teaching is a recent (19th century) invention, the burden is on the innovators to try to show that their novel teaching harmonizes with Scripture which clearly contradicts it.
“Immediately AFTER the tribulation of those days the sun will be darkened, and the moon will not give its light, and the stars will fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens will be shaken. Then will appear in heaven the sign of the Son of Man, and then all the tribes of the earth will mourn, and they will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of heaven with power and great glory. And he will send out his angels with a loud trumpet call, and they will gather his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other." -- Matthew 24:31 ESV
"The rest of the dead did not come to life until the thousand years were ended. This is the FIRST resurrection." -- Revelation 20:5 ESV
Compare to the verse below.
"For the Lord himself will descend from heaven with a cry of command, with the voice of an archangel, and with the sound of the trumpet of God. And the dead in Christ will rise first." -- 1 Thessalonians 4:16 ESV
"Let no one deceive you in any way. For that day will not come, unless the rebellion comes FIRST, and the man of lawlessness is revealed, the son of destruction, who opposes and exalts himself against every so-called god or object of worship, so that he takes his seat in the temple of God, proclaiming himself to be God." -- 2 Thessalonians 2:3-4 ESV
"Also it was allowed to make war on the SAINTS [MEMBERS OF THE CHURCH] and to conquer them. And authority was given it over every tribe and people and language and nation." -- Revelation 13:7 ESV
The fact that the word "church" is not used after Revelation 4 is insignificant (as insignificant as its omission from 1 John) since it is described ("saints").
The Church is not destined for eternal wrath (1 Thessalonians 5:9) and in spite of the persecution endured, will doubtless be spared from God's outpouring of wrath much as the Israelites were during the plagues prior to the exodus.
Since the Bible so clearly refutes the new pre-trib teaching, it is no surprise that no one believed it before Darby. The denomination with which I am ordained (and from whose seminary I graduated) inherited this teaching, largely from the influence of the Scofield Reference Bible. I do not make an issue in the church of this minor issue even though I know my brethren are wrong. I love my pre-trib brethren very much even though they are mistaken.
Minority of protestants have embraced rapture theology? Nearly everyone I know believes and adheres to it. I'm the odd man out because I don't. I did believe in the rapture most of my life, but was shown the truth a few years ago.
Same. Shows how those who so desperately think they believe the truth can also believe a lie just because it sounds cool.
Agreed..
I believed the rapture theology all my life because that’s what I was told and taught growing up in church. After 52 years, and praying for revelation and truth in all things, I have studied and longer believe in the futurism rapture theology. And I have a clear vision of the Antichrist and what the “mark of the beast” is.
Hey friends. I too am a former rapture believer until I finally read the Bible throughly.
There is not one verse that supports the rapture.
Witherington is wrong about many things. Many of the early church fathers taught the rapture including Eusebius, Irenaeus, Cyprian and Efraem of Nisibis. "“The coming of the Lord is nigh, believe you me, because the end of the world is at hand, because it is the very last time. Or do you not believe unless you see it with your eyes? See to it that this sentence be not fulfilled among you of the prophet who declares: "Woe to those who desire to see the Day of the Lord!" Because all saints and the Elect of the Lord are gathered together before the tribulation which is to about to come and are taken to the Lord, in order that they may not see at any time the confusion which overwhelms the world because of our sins. And so brothers, most dear to me, it is the eleventh hour, and the end of this world comes to the harvest, and angels, armed and prepared, hold sickles in their earth exists with blind infidelity, arriving at its downfall early.” Efraem 373 AD.
On the subject of the Rapture, in Against Heresies, Church Father Irenaeus describes the pre-tribulation Rapture when he writes: And therefore, when in the end the Church shall be suddenly caught up from this, it is said, “There shall be tribulation such as has not been since the beginning, neither shall be.”
In 1200 Brother Dolcino taught that "the Antichrist was coming into this world within the bounds of the said three and a half years; and after he had come, then he and his followers would be transferred into Paradise, in which are Enoch and Elijah. And in this way they will be preserved unharmed from the persecution of Antichrist. And that then Enoch and Elijah themselves would descend on the earth for the purpose of preaching against Antichrist.
In 1590, Francisco Ribera, a Jesuit scholar, taught that the Revelation of John was in the future, the “end times” and also taught that a Rapture would happen 45 days before the end of a 3.5-year tribulation.
Increase Mather (1639-1723), was a pastor, scholar, and was the first President of Harvard College. Paul Boyer has noted that this Puritan scholar proved "that the saints would be caught up into the air beforehand, thereby escaping the final conflagration." This teaching from Increase Mather was an early formulation of the Rapture doctrine.
Joseph Mede, (1586-1683) called the “Father of modern interpretation” wrote in 1672, "I will add this more, namely, what may be conceived to be the cause of this RAPTURE of the saints on high to meet the Lord in the clouds, rather than to wait His coming to earth....What if it be, that they may be PRESERVED during the Conflagration of the earth and the works thereof, 2 Pet.3:10, that as Noah and his family were preserved from the Deluge by being lift up above the waters in the Ark; so should the saints at the Conflagration be lift up in the clouds unto their Ark, Christ, to be preserved there from the deluge of fire, wherein the wicked shall be consumed?" ("The Works of Joseph Mede," 1672, London edition, Book IV, p.776)
Witherington is not accurate in claiming that the rapture originated with John Darby.
2 Timothy 4:3 "For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears" Thank you, Ben, for your enlghtenng comments on this subject.
@williamward9278
John 6 39-54 Jesus says at the Last day four times. Jesus is truth
It doesn't seem like sound doctrine for you to add 1007 years after the day Jesus calls the Last day
1 Corinthians 15 Paul says the resurrection of the dead four times before verse 51
Dead in Christ means saints that overcome the Mark of the beast
You don't have one Bible verse that promised white robes or the thousand year reign of Jesus to the church
The saints have those Bible verses
Revelation 7 14
Revelation 20 4
@williamward9278
No, the church rapture is at judgement day
John 6 39-54 Jesus says at the Last day four times
1 Corinthians 15 Paul says the resurrection of the dead four times before verse 51
Daniel 12 2
And many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame and everlasting contempt.
John 5 29
Revelation 20 12-15 both sound exactly like
Daniel 12 2
Four verses after judgement day
Revelation 21 4
God wipes away the Bride's tears
The church is in old heaven and in the dust of the earth during the thousand year reign of Jesus
Revelation 4 old heaven is spirit world
Revelation 21 New heaven New earth New Jerusalem with no more days
@williamward9278
Christians that die before the Mark of the beast are the Bride of Christ
Christians that overcome the Mark of the beast are saints
The saints have Bible verses that promise them white robes and the thousand year reign of Jesus
The Bride of Christ doesn't have one Bible verse that promised them those things
Revelation 6 9
Revelation 7 14
Revelation 20 4
I would double check if I were you
How could there be more days after the day Jesus calls the Last day?
Jesus is truth
Last day means no more days
I know Revelation is the greatest puzzle ever written, but Jesus repeats His message about the saints over and over and over and over again
Jesus is truth keep the faith
Revelation 2 & 3 Jesus says overcometh seven times, seven times Jesus says
He that hath a ear let him hear
@@squirreljones3595 quote---You don't have one Bible verse that promised white robes or the thousand year reign of Jesus to the church--unquote
Who/ what is the church??
Where wil the 1000 years be?
@williamward9278 Luke 17:25-37
King James Version
25 But first must he suffer many things, and be rejected of this generation.
26 And as it was in the days of Noe, so shall it be also in the days of the Son of man.
27 They did eat, they drank, they married wives, they were given in marriage, until the day that Noah entered into the ark, and the flood came, and destroyed them all.
28 Likewise also as it was in the days of Lot; they did eat, they drank, they bought, they sold, they planted, they builded;
29 But the same day that Lot went out of Sodom it rained fire and brimstone from heaven, and destroyed them all.
30 Even thus shall it be in the day when the Son of man is revealed.
>>>In comparing Himself to these two things, the Lord teaches us a lot about how He purifies us. “But who may abide the day of his coming? and who shall stand when he appeareth? for he is like a refiner's fire, and like fullers' soap.” Malachi 3:2.
WE WIL BE REFINED through the tribulations!!!
-----There WILL BE millions that will refuse to follow Jesus. You think He will save them??? THere will be MILLIONS that WILL give in to the anti-christ and worship the Beast..Will God save them to??? Even to the last , there will be millions that follow Jesus, then give up.
-----What does the Bible say about refiners fire?
Zechariah 13:9, referring to the end-time remnant of Israel, says, “And I will bring the third part through the fire, refine them as silver is refined, and test them as gold is tested, they will call on My name, and I will answer them; I will say, 'They are My people,' and they will say, 'The Lord is My God. '”
-----What Scripture is refiner based on?
Lines 3 and 4: God is the refiner's fire, removing the impurities within us to become more holy and testing the integrity of our heart, just like a smith might do with gold or silver (Job 23:10, Psalm 51:7-17, Psalm 66:10, Proverbs 17:3, Isaiah 48:10, Zechariah 13:9, Malachi 3:3, and 1 Peter 1:7).
----What does the Bible say about God refining us?
Isaiah 48:10 shares how God refines us: "I have refined you, but not as silver is refined. Rather, I have refined you in the furnace of suffering."
(how will you suffer anything IF you do NOT go through the tribulations???)
----What is the spiritual meaning of the refiners fire?
God uses trials to test the reality of our faith in a similar way to the process of purifying precious metals. God ordains trials to test the reality of our faith in a way that's similar to the process of purifying precious metals.
----What does God use to refine us?
In both the Old and New Testaments, we find numerous references to God refining His children through fiery trials in much the same way an earthly refiner uses fire to purify gold and silver. The Lord says, “I have refined you, though not as silver; I have tested you in the furnace of affliction.”
----What does the Bible mean by refiner?
In the various Bible references the refining of precious metals is used figuratively to illustrate the kind of trial God's children are called upon to go through. If they are of the right metal the dross will finally be blown away, leaving pure, clear, shining silver.
----Why God puts us through the fire?
God uses FIRE to chasten us when we stray away from him (Heb. 12:5-11); and then God uses fire to keep us on our knees, to bring us to a place in him where He can use us for His glory.
-----How does the Lord purify us?
In his mercy, God sent his Son, Jesus, so that he could forgive us our sins and create pure hearts in us. In John 17, Jesus prays that his followers will be “sanctified” (purified) through himself and through the truth of God's Word.
Daniel, gives a perfect sequence of events. Thank you for telling it the way it is.
Coming from one who has experienced a faith failure, its hard to comprehend what could possibly happen to ones faith when they realise that tribulation has begun, and they are here to witness it..
May His will be done, and may these days be shortened.
May His peace, be your closest companion!
It would change nothing in my faith to be wrong. I’m fully capable of being wrong and God will always be right and worthy of our praise regardless.
However I see absolutely no reason to believe Jesus will beat up his bride and deliver his wrath to her same as he does the unbelieving world.
If he does, im wrong and he had higher reasons. However i DO NOT believe He will.
Amen 🙏 brother
@@G1stGBless Read on, we shall be protected from the evil that surrounds us. Also, we will perform amazing feats that draw others to Him. Not my words. I struggle some with recall, I can find the second reference fairly easy, in Daniel. I'm not asking folks to change what they believe, just be prepared. Trust me, I don't relish the thought, but I'm not able to find where it says folks will be taken before His return. I'm willing to keep looking,I'll read up on the parts that leave you believing as you do, I'll share where my beliefs are coming from. If it keeps our noses in the book, it's not a bad challenge. . Peace my new friend, Proverbs 27:17. Thank you
I believed in the rapture wholeheartedly until my belief was lovingly challenged by a friend. In researching and studying the Bible, I was caused to change my belief. think that believing in the rapture theology will leave a lot of Christians unprepared when they face trials if they have lived their life believing that Jesus will rapture them out of the tribulation to come. Noah wasn’t taken out of the flood, but he and his family were protected through it. Daniel’s 3 friends did not escape the fiery furnace, but Jesus was with them in it. None of the disciples escaped persecution because of their faith in Jesus, so I don’t see how we can expect to. Jesus tells us plainly, “In this world, you will have tribulation”. Just be prepared.
Hello brother , if you will please read this . If you add Daniels 62 weeks to when Israel became a nation on May 14th 1948 weeks being years you come to 2010 . In that time Barack Obama who was the leader of the Free World announced he approved of Homosexual marriage . Daniel 11:37 He does not regard the God of women . He also said he was a Christian . Jesus Christ called him by name . Barack Obama translated to english is (Lightening from the heights of heaven) Jesus said " I saw Satan fall as lightening from heaven . Luke 10:18 New King James Version And He said to them, “I saw Satan fall like lightning from heaven. if you add Daniels 7 weeks to his 62 weeks being years you have Daniels 69 weeks being the year 2017 in which Donald Trump Leader of the free world was in office . (The Last Trump) King James Bible 1 Corinthians 15:52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last TRUMP. If you add Daniels Last week . A week being 7 years to 2017 you will come to the End of Daniels timeline ; May 14th 2024 .(Matthew 24:29 “Immediately after the tribulation of those days the sun will be darkened, ) One month before May 14th 2024 on "April 8th" a total eclipse will happen (The sun will be darkened) over America signaling the End of the World . We the children of God have about 7 months left before the Rapture and the (The End of The World) .
@@deanhil3978
Revelation 3:10
💯 correct! Ezekiel 23:17-22 God is against those that teach His people to fly away to save their souls.
...I am sooo pleased to find a traditional perspective/theology of the scriptures. I was raised in this dispensational type of perspective...and it was in 2002, give or take, that I came to understand differently. I now see the scriptures as they reflect Christ, his work, the things that he completed and the things that he brought into existence. That overarching concept, while it has not answered all the questions I have regarding the scriptures...it has had the effect of not causing any conflict either.
Taking just the account where Christ makes reference to both Noah and Lot.....I have come to accept that Christ is referencing...Judgement and Deliverance (Salvation)....this fits precisely what Jesus did with his death, burial and resurrection....
The key, for me, in coming to seeing Christ in these events, was that the time element of the death, burial and resurrection of Christ, was revealed to me
What a blessing it has been...thanking GOD.
Bless....
John Collins
Are you the same Mr. Collins from historical research? I’ve been hearing it. And it has opened my eyes to so many things. It’s a painful process.
where didthis guy come from....Hes a complete clueless moron....the bible only teaches a pre trib rapture....read it !!
I’ve always believed this. And I’ve gone to Baptist and Mennonite churches my whole life. Never understood why so many people think Jesus will come back 2 more times.
If the tribulation were true, then everyone would give their hearts to God the day before he came the next time. Too easy
The tribulation is true. The rapture is true. The only false part is that Jesus will return twice.
@@bigscarysteve He has come already and He will come in the end meaning His feet will touch the Earth. Rapture involves us being taken up into the clouds to be with Him. We leave Earth. Then wrath happens.
I sympathize with your less-than-rapturous skepticism but find your reasoning difficult to accept.
1. So what if people are saved under sub-optimal conditions or for 'selfish' reasons (as though our salvation were a gift from us to God, perish the thought)?
Please read 1st Timothy 2:4 and take note of God's mercy,
in contrast with our own grudging acceptance of fellow-sinners.
Too easy, you say? I hope you were joking.
Let's put on hairshirts and self-flagellate, to be assured of our salvation.
2. Waiting is a dangerous game. Mostly we do not know the moment of our death, so as to calculate how late will be 'too late'.
Sometimes we underestimate the perversity of human rebellion, the stubbornness of sin. Where does it say that they gnawed their tongues with pain, yet would not repent? They blasphemed all the more. Revelation 16:10-11.
@@marcusonesimus3400 can you reason these 3 things and prove him wrong?
1 Jesus Christ came to earth in the flesh and suffered trial, persecution, and tribulation(death) for our sin.
2 Jesus said: you call him Lord and master. No man is greater than the Lord.
3 1Peter 2:21 For even here unto were ye called: because Christ also suffered for us, leaving us an example, that ye should follow in his steps.
Matthew 10:39 He that findeth his life shall lose it: and he that loseth his life for my sake shall find it.
@@bigscarysteve
The tribulation WAS true 2000 years ago and predicted by JESUS in HIS generation.
Please stop adding things to Revelation because it is strictly forbidden by the Lord.
As a youngster, i was warned about the Scofield Bible. I have never believed all the rapture crap. Thank you for shedding light on its origin
That’s weird to say “I don’t believe this rapture crap” considering it’s literally in the Bible. Are you not a Christian?
@@FreddyZierau-zv8qx IT IS NOT IN THE BIBLE!
@@vieiradosreismariadelurdes9105sure it is in the Bible Rev 19 John saw the Bride in heaven preparing to return with Christ to set up the millennial reign ,so the question is if no rapture how and when did the Bride get to heaven
@@heknows5418 IT IS FALSE DOCTRINE! It doesn't mather what that crasy man 📝 on his "books" in the 18 Century ( Calvinism etc...) . The "rapture" IS FAKE! Really FAKE!
I pray I will overcome, survive and be found lookin up when Yeshua returns
I've just recently come to realize, through restudying the scriptures, that pre-trubulation and mid-tribulation theology is simply wrong. It's not in the Bible. We Saints are here until the second coming of Jesus, so look busy and work for the Kingdom until he comes.
Don't "look" busy... be busy in getting as close to Jesus and doing His will.
But if you say that...you contradict Jesus when he said "night is coming when no man can work" (John) and when he said "pray that you might escape these things" (Luke). If the church is tasked with the Great commission...how come it says in Revelation "I saw an angel flying in mid-air and he had the eternal gospel to preach to every nation tribe and tongue. How come the Church isn't doing it? There's only one reason ...cause they aren't there to do it. This guy doesn't have a good grasp of scripture on this topic...but his real failing is in Christian Doctrine. The Bible does teach the rapture as something real...but you have to know where to start , because if you start in the wrong place you will get every reference to the Tribulation and rapture, wrong. here's where you start ...1st John 4: 1-3 which says....
" Dear friends, don't believe every spirit but test the spirits to see whether they are from God because many false prophets have gone out into the world. This is how you can know the Spirit of God: Every spirit that acknowledges that Jesus Christ has come in the flesh is from God but every spirit that does not acknowledge that Jesus Christ has come in the flesh is not from God. This is the spirit of the antichrist which you have heard is coming, and even now is in the world."
OK...what does acknowledging that Jesus came in the flesh have to do with the rapture you ask ? First, understand that the Tribulation is the WRATH of God poured out on sinful humanity...in Revelation , even the evil doers know this when they cry out " who will save us from the lamb because the day of his WRATH has come". We are flesh, and Jesus Christ came and took on himself our flesh, so that he could take upon himself our sin...and our WRATH...the WRATH of God which we deserved . This then , is SALVATION , Jesus Christ taking upon himself our sin and GOD"S WRATH when he died on the cross. When anyone teaches that the rapture is a false teaching they are in effect saying that Christians will experience the WRATH of God. This takes away from the work of Jesus on the cross...diminishes our salvation and is therefore a denial that Jesus came in the flesh. So you see how serious this is ? So according to the warning John gave us, what spirit is behind the teaching that the rapture is false?
Once you understand the IMPLICATIONS of Jesus coming in the flesh, you can then start making sense of these words Paul wrote in 1st and 2nd Thessalonians..."Jesus who saves us from the WRATH that is to come"...and..."You are not appointed unto WRATH". There are many other scriptures I could point to and explain how they show that the nation of Israel plays the important role in the Tribulation, because the church is not present and God said he had unfinished business with his people Israel.
@@markanthony3275 You are deceived. Please please please pray that the Lord will open you eyes before it is too late
@@tammywatson5238 No...because I've read and understood the Bible. And...I've explained VERY CLEARLY from the Bible why anyone teaching that there is no pre-trib rapture is under the influence of the "spirit of the antichrist" by using the measuring stick that John gave us in his 1st letter.
I for many years was taught pre trib but was never ever settled. Upon searching and studying the scripture for myself found that all that I was taught was unbiblical
As a recovering Methodist PK, I’ve Left Behind the Methodist Church. My father was a wonderful conservative man (Asbury Theological). He fought hard to keep the Methodist Church on a godly path. It’s sad to see it falling apart.
Please note that no form of Methodisim officially emraces dispensationalism. I am a retired UM pastor
To abandon anything that is unbelievable is truly eclectic, thank you.
oddly, recently I have been grappling with this belief. The issue kept coming forward in my thinking, until I finally searched out what was behind the thinking, only to immediately see why it's a false belief. But I needed to investigate why would I latch onto such a false teaching. The answer came just as quickly, part of me was afraid of the prospect of going through such a painful time, and this theology was a mental escape. I have given it up, and confessed my sin before Jesus, and what a relief it is to have let it go.
where didthis guy come from....Hes a complete clueless moron....the bible only teaches a pre trib rapture....read it !!
God's word only teaches a pretrib RAPTURE 1 Cor 15:52...which is Part 1 of a 2 part 3rd coming...part 2 when he steps on Mt of Olives...after his resurrection 2nd coming ✝️✝️
Revelation 3:10 proves a pre-trib rapture! Any non Scripture source is irrelevant!
@@edkay3601 yes all of scripture proves a pretrib RAPTURE....these people need to know their Lord ✝️✝️
@@Mrcrisis2012 Realize that Jesus does not come to Earth at the rapture. A "window" opens to heaven and Jesus appears out of it and calls the Ekklesia up unto himself. The Matt 24 gathering are ANGELS carrying Jews to Jerusalem to meet the returned king who's name they called out to. Jesus said he would not return until Israel calls on him. They do so at the end of JACOB"s TROUBLE. All these post tribbers carefully void the details like that.
I have to agree with his explanation based solely on what the angels said to the disciples about the manner of Jesus would return (Acts 1:11) and of what Paul reminded the Thessalonians in 1 Thessalonians 4:14-18.
I used to believe in the rapture and was always terrified at the thought of waking up one morning alone because my family had been "raptured" but thank God and His Holy Spirit for really helping us to understand by the very simple words of the scripture that there is no such thing as a rapture - that it is just a man made doctrine not having a firm foundation on the Bible.
It testifies to how powerful the Bible is, God's Word just knocks down this whole branch of "Christian theology" that was based on a "vision" that was not verified by it.
Dear brethren and sisters, let us first verify all that we believe according to the Bible (Isaiah 8:20) or else our faith is just based upon shifty sand. God bless :)
IT was the same for me also. One night I read a verse, don't remember the reference, that helped dispel the fear and anxiety I'd had most of my life about its veracity.
I too am studying the end of days, with the focus on studying. And by what I have found so far,
I haven't found anything that supports the rapture.
With this study, several matters came to surface, which did not gave me the thought
of where the rapture theology originated from. This explanation really helps and
do confirm what I have found so far (I am not finished with my study, not even close).
Do you read the Bible in your study of the end of days? The event of the rapture is in the NT. A couple of times
@@casey8726
No, it is not. As what is explained, there are interpretations of the original word of God
that wants to confirm the rapture.
Another happening that does not support the rapture;
When the children of Israel lived in Egypt and were in the same land that was plagued by God.
The final plague, the children of Israel were not protected.
Only when blood of the lamb was smeared on the doorposts, the first born would not be killed by God.
In the OT, there are at least two persons
that went to heaven, while being alive;
Henoch and Elijah. Two persons, not a
crowd of people, or a group of people.
Also, God gave ten tribes away.
What the children of God have endured, during the OT, does not show any moment
where God took away his people, due to extreme danger, warfare
or bloodshed in the land of Israel
or thru out the land of Israel.
It shows actually quite the opposite.
A good example is the 40 years, dwelling in
the desert because the children of Israel did
not believe that they could take the land
that was promised to Abraham.
@@leftrevolution7 Did you read the Bible in your study of the end times? Its in the NT, actually, three times.
Please don't call me wrong, when you are wrong
@@leftrevolution7 duh
I Thessalonians chapter 4 verses 14-18
duh
@@casey8726
Try not to convince me, you are not the author as I am not the author.
If you believe in the rapture, then believe it, I won't stop you nor convince you.
Reading the bible is the only way, however, it is the Holy Spirit that reveals.
Because the word of God is inspired by the Holy Spirit.
I have read the Bible and left alone, I do see the rapture in it , in several types and as a promise of Jesus. Also in doctrines .
I think you were deliberately looking for references to tie into your belief.
I am sure that you could chop up the bible, throw in a little from the Torah, some from the Quran, a little bit of Buddhist thought and establish a faith. Then you could start another fellowship of believers. At that point, think of the money you could make.
Forgot to add the following: maybe some Shakespeare, Sherlock Holmes, L Ron Hubbard, Mary White, Joseph Smith and others.
Maybe you don't like my opinion, but I have not been brainwashed to the point others have control.
Wow, thank you! I grew up evangelical and in the past couple years have had a reawakening of my faith within a more Anglican/ Episcopal tradition. You can imagine my shock when I learned the vast majority of Christians do not believe in a rapture, and that all the horror stories I were told would happen aren't rooted in real Biblical knowledge. I've learned the truth before this video, but this is the best summary of it that I've heard. Gonna share this!
Is Christmas,Easter and New year rooted in the Bible? Just asking.
@@justinamusyoka4986 Those are all pagan holidays. Christians mean well, but these holidays are Satan’s mockery of God’s holy days.
What does an understanding of the New Covenant do to the Pretrib Rapture doctrine?
Since the New Covenant is “everlasting” in Hebrews 13:20, how is the New Covenant Church age going to end before the Second Coming of Christ? Why would anyone think God is going back to the Old Covenant system now made “obsolete” by the New Covenant in Hebrews 8:13? We are not come to Mount Sinai in Hebrews 12:18. We are come instead to the New Covenant church of Mount Zion and the blood in Hebrews 12:22-24.
Once a person comes to understand the New Covenant promised to Israel and Judah in Jeremiah 31:31-34, which is found fulfilled by Christ during the first century in Hebrews 8:6-13, and Hebrews 10:16-18, and specifically applied to the Church in 2 Corinthians 3:6-8, and Hebrews 12:22-24, modern Dispensational Theology falls apart, and the pretrib removal of the Church falls with it.
The Capitol "C" Church, as we use the word today, is not found in the entire Book of Revelation. Individual church bodies in ancient Asia Minor are found. In Revelation 12:11 we find those under the blood of the Lamb. A person cannot be under the blood of the Lamb and not be a part of the New Covenant Church of Jesus Christ. Verse 12 of this passage proves at least part of the tribulation period is the wrath of Satan upon the people of God.
Rev 12:11 And they overcame him by the blood of the Lamb, and by the word of their testimony; and they loved not their lives unto the death.
Rev 12:12 Therefore rejoice, ye heavens, and ye that dwell in them. Woe to the inhabiters of the earth and of the sea! for the devil is come down unto you, having great wrath, because he knoweth that he hath but a short time.
"It may come as a surprise to most pre-Trib prophecy students that the post-Trib position (in its primitive form) is the oldest point of view."
(The quotation above is from the book "Will You Escape The Tribulation? RAPTURE [Under Attack]", by Tim LaHaye, copyright 1998, Page 197.) Tim LaHaye was co-author of the “Left Behind” books and movies which have convinced millions of modern Christians that the Church age ends seven years before the Second Coming of Christ. Recently, Pastor Matt Furse of Mountain View Baptist Church in Custer, S.D. has written a book titled “Which One Is Right?’, which reveals the recent history of the pretrib rapture doctrine, and the fact it does not agree with what is written in the King James Bible.
The gathering of the Church is described at the end of 1 Thess. Chapter 4, and the timing of the event is found in chapter 5. The word “But” in the first verse of chapter 5 connects the two chapters, and the words “we” and “sleep” in verse 10 of chapter 5 prove the two chapters are connected.
Oh its going to be bad but unless you die you should be here for it, be prepared to fight the good fight of faith and with the sword of your mouth the word of god.😑
@@SpotterVideo Thank you. I'll look into 1 Thess 4 and 5.
The only “rapture” in the Bible is when Jesus returns after the final trumpet.
Upon His return; the dead in Christ will rise up first, then those Christians on earth will be ‘caught up’...
There is no removing anyone from the tribulation. God’s Grace is sufficient, He won’t take us from it, He will take us through it.
You mistake the final trump with the final trumpet judgement in Revelation...the two are not the same thing. Jesus himself said "Pray that you might escape..." Luke 21:34-36.
@Tomas So you won't trust the savior if he makes you go thru tribulation?! Your words not mine. See thats one of the problems I have with this false doctrine of yours. And that is what it is. I guess all of the people who have been persecuted for Christ over the centuries aren't as important as this generation, hence why we are saved from tribulation, right? Makes no sense. I know pretrib rapture. I grew up with it. Didn't make sense then and it still doesn't now. Our blessed hope is eternity with Christ not a hasty escape before trib. The saints are the church in revelation. No where are they called tribulation saints. Thats just people like Barry Scarborough and 2434 generation tickling your ears. If you want to believe that fine but stop trying to convince other people. Stay in your groups. Your fig tree prophecy interpretation should be proven wrong by May of next year. I hope most of you give it up then and prepare your hearts for whats to come. But if I know you like I think I do you will just move the goal post yet again. We will face persecution. Many of us will die. Thats scary stuff but not scarier than living eternity without Christ. Faith will be all we have left and maybe thats a good thing. In the meantime I prepare to stand or to run if need be. One thing we can agree on. The end is nigh.
AAMMMEEENNN
@Tomas Claudi understands perfectly...she has obviously read Revelation and guided by the Holy Spirit into all truth.
I knew this but needed a refresher. Thank you!!!
Man.. when I stopped believing in the rapture people thought I was nuts.. Look I grew up in the Plymouth Brethren. My grandparents were CMML missionaries. My uncle went to DTS and was also a CMML missionary and then professor at Emmaus. I volunteered at KHCB radio as a kid helping them with their newsletter mailings. Then we went to a baptist church where the rapture was the preacher's faaaavoriteeee thing to talk about. There were (are still to this day) people from that church who's lives are in a tough situation yet they refuse to do anything to help themselves because the rapture is coming any moment now.. Yes, to all international or non-dispensationalist Christian readers of this comment - this is a very real sentiment among these people!! They will work a crap job their whole lives, they will endure an abusive relationship for decades, they will run up debts - "the rapture is coming!" Its literally a doomsday cult.. It eventually made me sick because no matter how much I read the Bible, the Holy Word of God, I couldn't find the pre-trib rapture making sense! It's not even in there! Dispensationalism is such garbage, yet it opens up the world for such wickedness that we see today, and Christians stay silent because its their idea of "the plan".
Where can I find a non-dispensationalist, non-zionist Christian church? I live in Houston Tx.
Your bretheren experience is one of many. In the individual lovely people, in the whole tortured souls. If legalism was a Olympic sport those poor christian ghetto people would be in line for gold medals!
Do not know this man, or anything about him, but let me tell you.....HE IS VERY CORRECT!! So thankful to see someone that is NOT a false prophet teaching the lie of Rapture!! I SALUTE YOU Ben Withergton!!! Thank you for teaching truth!!
Many of the early church fathers taught the rapture including Eusebius, Irenaeus, Cyprian and Efraem of Nisibis. "“The coming of the Lord is nigh, believe you me, because the end of the world is at hand, because it is the very last time. Or do you not believe unless you see it with your eyes? See to it that this sentence be not fulfilled among you of the prophet who declares: "Woe to those who desire to see the Day of the Lord!" Because all saints and the Elect of the Lord are gathered together before the tribulation which is to about to come and are taken to the Lord, in order that they may not see at any time the confusion which overwhelms the world because of our sins. And so brothers, most dear to me, it is the eleventh hour, and the end of this world comes to the harvest, and angels, armed and prepared, hold sickles in their earth exists with blind infidelity, arriving at its downfall early.” Efraem 373 AD.
On the subject of the Rapture, in Against Heresies, Church Father Irenaeus describes the pre-tribulation Rapture when he writes: And therefore, when in the end the Church shall be suddenly caught up from this, it is said, “There shall be tribulation such as has not been since the beginning, neither shall be.”
In 1200 Brother Dolcino taught that "the Antichrist was coming into this world within the bounds of the said three and a half years; and after he had come, then he and his followers would be transferred into Paradise, in which are Enoch and Elijah. And in this way they will be preserved unharmed from the persecution of Antichrist. And that then Enoch and Elijah themselves would descend on the earth for the purpose of preaching against Antichrist.
In 1590, Francisco Ribera, a Jesuit scholar, taught that the Revelation of John was in the future, the “end times” and also taught that a Rapture would happen 45 days before the end of a 3.5-year tribulation.
Increase Mather (1639-1723), was a pastor, scholar, and was the first President of Harvard College. Paul Boyer has noted that this Puritan scholar proved "that the saints would be caught up into the air beforehand, thereby escaping the final conflagration." This teaching from Increase Mather was an early formulation of the Rapture doctrine.
Joseph Mede, (1586-1683) called the “Father of modern interpretation” wrote in 1672, "I will add this more, namely, what may be conceived to be the cause of this RAPTURE of the saints on high to meet the Lord in the clouds, rather than to wait His coming to earth....What if it be, that they may be PRESERVED during the Conflagration of the earth and the works thereof, 2 Pet.3:10, that as Noah and his family were preserved from the Deluge by being lift up above the waters in the Ark; so should the saints at the Conflagration be lift up in the clouds unto their Ark, Christ, to be preserved there from the deluge of fire, wherein the wicked shall be consumed?" ("The Works of Joseph Mede," 1672, London edition, Book IV, p.776)
Witherington is not accurate in claiming that the rapture originated with John Darby.
Really??
Church father Irenaeus wrote about 180AD. He was taught under Polycarp, the disciple of the Apostle John, and occasionally saw the Apostle John. Irenaeus wrote a five-volume work entitled “Against Heresies” against the cults of his day. “When in the end that church will suddenly be caught up from this, then it is said, ‘There will be tribulation such as not been since the beginning, nor will be.’” Irenaeus “Against Heresies 5.29
Ephraim 373 AD “…because all saints and the elect of the LORD are gathered together before the Tribulation which is about to commence be taken to the LORD…” On the Last Times 2-Ephraim the Syrian 373 AD.
Lactantius in the second century between 100-200AD in his commentary of the Apocalypse that Rev 6:14 is when "the Church shall be taken away”
and there are others.
I encourage you for about $10 you can get Ken Johnson's book "The end times by the Ancient Church Fathers" where he documents the disciples of the Apostles' writings from about 100AD-400AD.
Now this doesn't mean that the doctrine is true, it simply proves it's not a new doctrine. That the assumption that this understanding never existed in church history prior to the 1800s is false.
Do I think the "left behind" series did a great job with biblical theology? No.
So let's look at some compelling Scriptures from the Bible.
In Rev 19:11-19 we see Jesus coming back. Now some debate whether this event is a literal event or not. His first coming was so why wouldn't the second coming be? Regardless, I take the event at face value.
11 Now I saw heaven opened, and behold, a white horse. And He who sat on him was called Faithful and True, and in righteousness He judges and makes war. 12 His eyes were like a flame of fire, and on His head were many crowns. He had a name written that no one knew except Himself. 13 He was clothed with a robe dipped in blood, and His name is called The Word of God. 14 And the armies in heaven, clothed in fine linen, white and clean, followed Him on white horses. 15 Now out of His mouth goes a sharp sword, that with it He should strike the nations. And He Himself will rule them with a rod of iron. He Himself treads the winepress of the fierceness and wrath of Almighty God. 16 And He has on His robe and on His thigh a name written:
KING OF KINGS AND LORD OF LORDS.
...19 And I saw the beast, the kings of the earth, and their armies, gathered together to make war against Him who sat on the horse and against His army."
Now look at Zechariah 14
1 Behold, the day of the Lord is coming, And your spoil will be divided in your midst.
2 For I will gather all the nations to battle against Jerusalem; The city shall be taken,
The houses rifled, And the women ravished. Half of the city shall go into captivity, But the remnant of the people shall not be cut off from the city.
3 Then the Lord will go forth And fight against those nations, As He fights in the day of battle.
4 And in that day His feet will stand on the Mount of Olives, Which faces Jerusalem on the east.
And the Mount of Olives shall be split in two, From east to west,...9 And the Lord shall be King over all the earth.
In that day it shall be- “The Lord is one,” And His name one...
16 And it shall come to pass that everyone who is left of all the nations which came against Jerusalem shall go up from year to year to worship the King, the Lord of hosts, and to keep the Feast of Tabernacles. 17 And it shall be that whichever of the families of the earth do not come up to Jerusalem to worship the King, the Lord of hosts, on them there will be no rain."
Notice how when Jesus returns He reigns on earth, and every year we all go up to Jerusalem to worship?
Now let's read John 14:1-6
“Let not your heart be troubled; you believe in God, believe also in Me. 2 In My Father’s house are many rooms; if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you. 3 And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again and receive you to Myself; that where I am, there you may be also. 4 And where I go you know, and the way you know.”
5 Thomas said to Him, “Lord, we do not know where You are going, and how can we know the way?”
6 Jesus said to him, “I am the way, the truth, and the life. No one comes to the Father except through Me."
The simple question we need to ask is "when"? If the LORD at His 2nd Coming comes and reigns on earth and every year we go to Jerusalem to worship Him, then WHEN does He come (verse 3 And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again and receive you to Myself; that where I am, there you may be also.)
and take us to His Father's house (Heaven) where He's been preparing a place for those who believe He's the Way, the Truth, and the Life?
Another passage to consider is Acts 1:9 Now when He (Jesus) had spoken these things, while they (His Disciples) watched, He was taken up, and a cloud received Him out of their sight. 10 And while they looked steadfastly toward heaven as He went up, behold, two men stood by them in white apparel, 11 who also said, “Men of Galilee, why do you stand gazing up into heaven? This same Jesus, who was taken up from you into heaven, will so come in like manner as you saw Him go into heaven.”
2 men (divine beings) said "This same Jesus, who was taken up from you into heaven, will so come in like manner as you saw Him go into heaven.”
"like manner" how was Jesus taken up? a cloud received Him "out of their sight". Was Jesus on a White horse? Was He wearing many crowns? Was He wearing a robe dripped in blood accompanied by the Armies of Heaven? No.
What's also interesting is that 2 divine beings accompanied Jesus into Heaven. In Genesis 18 we see 3 men, 1 being the LORD come to Abraham and later on the LORD stays with Abraham while the other 2 beings go to Sodom, to prepare it for judgment. In Rev 11:3-7 we see 2 invincible witnesses preach for 1,260 days preparing the world for judgment. Where did these 2 witnesses come from? My theory based on what I've presented in that when Jesus comes in like manner to His ascension He'll come with 2 witnesses in the clouds. He will remain in the clouds and receive us who believe in Him to Himself to take us to the place He's been preparing for us in Heaven. While the 2 witnesses remain on the earth to prepare it for judgment after the 1,260 days.
What's also interesting while I'm listing Scripture, and feel free to watch my series on "Why Study Eschatology?"
Is that in John 3:36 Jesus says
36 He who believes in the Son has everlasting life; and he who does not believe the Son shall not see life, but the wrath of God abides on him.”
Romans 5:8-9 it says
8 But God demonstrates His own love toward us, in that while we were still sinners, Christ died for us. 9 Much more then, having now been justified by His blood, we shall be saved from wrath through Him.
1 Thessalonians 5 (which ironically you mentioned) verse 9-11 says
9 For God did not appoint us to wrath, but to obtain salvation through our Lord Jesus Christ, 10 who died for us, that whether we wake or sleep, we should live together with Him.
11 Therefore comfort each other and edify one another, just as you also are doing.
Now I admit many Pre-trib Christians believe the Rapture will occur before the Seals in Rev 6. I am not claiming that. I claim that it'll be before the 7 years which begins in Rev 11, not Rev 6. (which I show in my videos)
Rev 6:15-17 says
15 And the kings of the earth, the great men, the rich men, the commanders, the mighty men, every slave and every free man, hid themselves in the caves and in the rocks of the mountains, 16 and said to the mountains and rocks, “Fall on us and hide us from the face of Him who sits on the throne and from the wrath of the Lamb! 17 For the great day of His wrath has come, and who is able to stand?”
I hope that the Rapture is prior to Seal 1, but I am prepared for it to be before Seal 6. Which is still before the 7 years. Either way what is defined (although often inaccurately understood) as the Pre-trib Rapture is a very sound doctrine. And I didn't even include 1 Thess 4:16-18. Hope this helps. Take care.
If you're interested in my series which is in-depth on all these topics here's the first video. Hope it helps. Take care.
th-cam.com/video/dzf3npIngoE/w-d-xo.html
This quick overview will be so helpful to share with people not willing to watch something else much longer. Hopefully it exposes enough if the error for people to be willing to do further research
The following also reveals many of the errors of the doctrine.
Once a person comes to understand the New Covenant promised to Israel and Judah in Jeremiah 31:31-34, which is found fulfilled by Christ during the first century in Hebrews 8:6-13, and Hebrews 10:16-18, and specifically applied to the Church in 2 Corinthians 3:6-8, and Hebrews 12:22-24, modern Dispensational Theology falls apart, and the pretrib removal of the Church falls with it.
The Capitol "C" Church, as we use the word today, is not found in the entire Book of Revelation. Individual church bodies in ancient Asia Minor are found. In Revelation 12:11 we find those under the blood of the Lamb. A person cannot be under the blood of the Lamb and not be a part of the New Covenant Church of Jesus Christ. Verse 12 of this passage proves at least part of the tribulation period is the wrath of Satan upon the people of God.
Rev 12:11 And they overcame him by the blood of the Lamb, and by the word of their testimony; and they loved not their lives unto the death.
Rev 12:12 Therefore rejoice, ye heavens, and ye that dwell in them. Woe to the inhabiters of the earth and of the sea! for the devil is come down unto you, having great wrath, because he knoweth that he hath but a short time.
"It may come as a surprise to most pre-Trib prophecy students that the post-Trib position (in its primitive form) is the oldest point of view."
The quotation above is from the book "Will You Escape The Tribulation? RAPTURE [Under Attack]", by Tim LaHaye, copyright 1998, Page 197.
The gathering of the Church is described at the end of 1 Thess. Chapter 4, and the timing of the event is found in chapter 5. The word “But” in the first verse of chapter 5 connects the two chapters, and the words “we” and “sleep” in verse 10 of chapter 5 prove the two chapters are connected.
=============
Who is really teaching “Replacement Theology” ?
(Did God fulfill His promises to the Jewish people at Calvary? Matthew 26:28, John 19:30)
The advocates of modern Dispensational Theology often accuse others of promoting “Replacement Theology”, or some may even say “Antisemitism”. What does the Bible say about their accusations?
1. Who is replacing Christ as the seed of Abraham through which all the families of the Earth would be blessed in Genesis 12:3, with Abraham’s modern descendants? (See Galatians 3:8)
2. Who is replacing the one people of God in John 10:16, with two peoples of God ?
3. Who is replacing the one seed (Christ) in Galatians 3:16, with the many seeds?
4. Who is replacing the children of the promise in Romans 9:8, with the children of the flesh?
5. Who is replacing the faithful “remnant” of Israelites in Romans 11:1-5, with the Baal worshipers?
6. Who is replacing the word "so" in Romans 11:26, with the word "then"?
7. Who is attempting to replace the Church made up of all races of people, with one made up only of Gentiles? Why did Peter address the crowd as “all the house of Israel” in Acts 2:36, when about 3,000 Israelites accepted Christ on the Day of Pentecost?
8. Based on Hebrews 9:15, the New Covenant cannot be separated from the Messiah’s death. Is the covenant in Daniel 9:27 connected to the Messiah’s death in Daniel 9:26. Is the covenant with the “many” in Daniel 9:27 the same covenant with the “many” in Matthew 26:28? If it is, some have replaced the New Covenant in Daniel 9:27 with a future covenant made by an antichrist not found in Daniel chapter 9. (See the 1599 Geneva Bible used by the Pilgrims.)
9. Those promoting the Two Peoples of God doctrine of Dispensational Theology often accuse others of teaching “Replacement Theology”, but are they the masters of it? Are they promoting a form of Dual Covenant Theology based on race? (See “genealogies” in Titus 3:9) Is the most important genealogy in the Bible found in Matthew 1:1? Is God's Son the ultimate fulfillment of Israel? Why has the modern Church done a pitiful job of sharing the Gospel with modern Orthodox Jews? Why would someone tell them they are God's chosen people and then fail to share the Gospel with them? Who is the seed of the woman promised in Genesis 3:15? Who is the "son" in Psalm 2? Who is the "suffering servant" of Isaiah 53? Who would fulfill the New Covenant promised in Jeremiah 31:31-34? Who would fulfill the timeline of Daniel chapter 9 before the second temple was destroyed? Why have we not heard this simple Old Testament Gospel preached on Christian television in the United States on a regular basis?
10. Watch the TH-cam video “Genesis of Dispensational Theology” to see the origin of this man-made doctrine, which is less than 200 years old. It was brought to the United States about the time of the Civil War by John Nelson Darby. The doctrine was later incorporated into the notes of the Scofield Reference Bible, and then spread through much of the modern Church.
Dallas Theological Seminary in Dallas Texas was created in part to promote John Darby’s Two Peoples of God doctrine of Dispensational Theology.
Lewis Sperry Chafer, the first president of Dallas Theological, had the following to say about the difference between Israel and the Church:
“The dispensationalist believes that throughout the ages God is pursuing two distinct purposes: one related to the earth with earthly people and earthly objectives involved which is Judaism; while the other is related to heaven with heavenly people and heavenly objectives involved, which is Christianity.”
Lewis Sperry Chafer, Dispensationalism (Dallas, Seminary Press, 1936), p. 107.
Chafer states that, ‘Israel is an eternal nation, heir to an eternal land, with an eternal kingdom, on which David rules from an eternal throne,’ that is, on earth and distinct from the church who will be in heaven.”
Lewis Sperry Chafer. Systematic Theology. 1975. Vol. IV. pp. 315-323.
John Walvoord, another prominent voice of Dallas Theological stated…
"...it is an article of normative dispensational belief that the boundaries of the land promised to Abraham and his descendants from the Nile to the Euphrates will be literally instituted and that Jesus Christ will return to a literal and theocratic Jewish kingdom centred on a rebuilt temple in Jerusalem. In such a scheme the Church on earth is relegated to the status of a parenthesis.”
John F. Walvoord, The Rapture Question.1979, p. 25
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
Are there two peoples of God in John 10:16? (See also 1 John 2:22-23, 2 John 1:7-11.)
What is the land promise to the Old Testament Saints in Hebrews 11:15-16?
Based on 2 Peter 3:10-13, is this earth “eternal”? Will it be replaced by a new earth?
Based on Acts 2:36, and Romans 9:6-8, and Romans 11:1-5, and Hebrews 12:22-24, and James 1:1-3, can faithful Israel and the Church be separated into two different groups?
Who is the New Covenant promised to in Jeremiah 31:31-34, and Hebrews 8:6-13?
Will modern Orthodox Jews ever be saved outside of the New Covenant Church?
Witherington is wrong. Many of the early church fathers taught a pre tribulation rapture. Many of the early church fathers taught the rapture including Eusebius, Irenaeus, Cyprian and Efraem of Nisibis. "“The coming of the Lord is nigh, believe you me, because the end of the world is at hand, because it is the very last time. Or do you not believe unless you see it with your eyes? See to it that this sentence be not fulfilled among you of the prophet who declares: "Woe to those who desire to see the Day of the Lord!" Because all saints and the Elect of the Lord are gathered together before the tribulation which is to about to come and are taken to the Lord, in order that they may not see at any time the confusion which overwhelms the world because of our sins. And so brothers, most dear to me, it is the eleventh hour, and the end of this world comes to the harvest, and angels, armed and prepared, hold sickles in their earth exists with blind infidelity, arriving at its downfall early.” Efraem 373 AD.
On the subject of the Rapture, in Against Heresies, Church Father Irenaeus describes the pre-tribulation Rapture when he writes: And therefore, when in the end the Church shall be suddenly caught up from this, it is said, “There shall be tribulation such as has not been since the beginning, neither shall be.”
In 1200 Brother Dolcino taught that "the Antichrist was coming into this world within the bounds of the said three and a half years; and after he had come, then he and his followers would be transferred into Paradise, in which are Enoch and Elijah. And in this way they will be preserved unharmed from the persecution of Antichrist. And that then Enoch and Elijah themselves would descend on the earth for the purpose of preaching against Antichrist.
In 1590, Francisco Ribera, a Jesuit scholar, taught that the Revelation of John was in the future, the “end times” and also taught that a Rapture would happen 45 days before the end of a 3.5-year tribulation.
Increase Mather (1639-1723), was a pastor, scholar, and was the first President of Harvard College. Paul Boyer has noted that this Puritan scholar proved "that the saints would be caught up into the air beforehand, thereby escaping the final conflagration." This teaching from Increase Mather was an early formulation of the Rapture doctrine.
Joseph Mede, (1586-1683) called the “Father of modern interpretation” wrote in 1672, "I will add this more, namely, what may be conceived to be the cause of this RAPTURE of the saints on high to meet the Lord in the clouds, rather than to wait His coming to earth....What if it be, that they may be PRESERVED during the Conflagration of the earth and the works thereof, 2 Pet.3:10, that as Noah and his family were preserved from the Deluge by being lift up above the waters in the Ark; so should the saints at the Conflagration be lift up in the clouds unto their Ark, Christ, to be preserved there from the deluge of fire, wherein the wicked shall be consumed?" ("The Works of Joseph Mede," 1672, London edition, Book IV, p.776)
Witherington is not accurate in claiming that the rapture originated with John Darby.
@@rickdalbey6009 No, someone has CLAIMED That Ephriam wrote a pre-trib statement. That was PSEUDO Ephriam (fake) and he stated that the believers are gathered and thus escape...but the Pretribbles left out the rest of the statement (a text out of context is a pretext.)
What Pseudo Ephriam actually said was that the elect escape BY DYING!
The other newly discovered pretribble statements by early church fathers are also random lines taken out of a context which clearly demonstrates an expectation that the church will be here during the tribulation.
There are a couple of statements by a couple of people who were in the early church, which can be interpreted to lean toward a pre-wrath stance. These statements have been grasped by pretribbles and are claimed to "prove pretrib."
I guess one must go to great lengths to support a position which is not in the Bible.
@@SpotterVideo You sure are in love with the lies of false teachers. th-cam.com/video/OUN1x6fSyi4/w-d-xo.html
Thanks for the historical timeline. It is amazing how one or two individuals can create a belief system and if it is in church or an annotated Bible, people just accept it. I came to Christ partly through the Late Great Planet Earth book-and so have many others-and until recently I never thought to question it!
pre trib is the earliest history if you do a deep dive in study
I find it amazing that you can accept this video as PROOF of anything! You must be a very trusting soul. If you pay attention you'll see that he gave his opinion and offered NO proof. As to when and if the rapture will occur, that's another issue - but if you accept this video as offered, then you're simply believing an opinion. And opinions are not the same as proof. Instead of relying on Hal Lindsay or Mr. Wetherington, why not anchor your faith with The Word? The Holy Spirit is the best teacher.
@@doylegaines1319 doyle you make no sense, WHO is not relying on the bible? Lindsay relied on the bible, if you interpret adverse to pre trib/disp that is your right, but why malign hundreds of millions of pre trib/disp Chritsians?
@@wwj14 You're not paying attention.
@@doylegaines1319 hmm LIndsay said pandemics/diseases, when a Dr. friend said these would be cured,(in his original manuscript) the Isreal restoration prophecies cont. to be fulfilled apace, incl. world hating jews, preacing of gspel in every tongue with transl. tech etc etc... I think I am paying attn!!!
Thankyou for historical clarity. God knew this was coming Ezekiel 13: 8..i am against those who teach my children to fly to save their souls.( paraphrased a bit but close enough ,my memory isn,t what it was).
We fly away after our souls are saved, because our souls are saved...not to save our souls.
Thank you! I’ve been taught the “rapture” at every church and have always questioned it, you know, considering it’s not in the Bible. How can so many denominations agree on and teach something that is not in scripture, but have complete opposite ideas and beliefs on scriptural facts? Blows my mind
1-year Edit: I can see this is a hot topic and apparently is causing a lot of discussion (some good, some not). Honestly, I believe we need to be able to have open discussions about our disagreements (and agreements) over doctrinal statements. I probably should have been more clear in my original post, I absolutely believe that Jesus is coming back for us (nobody knows when, so y’all need to stop bickering over “pre/post tribulation”. My original post was about not basing an entire doctrine on someone’s dream. Rather, we need to carefully examine scripture and allow the Holy Spirit to guide us into all truth. The idea of some secret rapture, like in the girl’s dream, is NOT in the Bible. What the Bible DOES teach is that when we are ENraptured (caught up in the clouds with Jesus) it is going to be a very public and exciting event! Whether it happens before, during, or after the tribulation, who knows? And honestly, who cares? What we DO know is that He is coming and we need to be ready! We also need to help others be ready, by sharing the Gospel with them and making disciples of all nations! It’s ok to disagree on certain things. When that happens, we mustn’t attack each other (like some of you seem to be doing in the replies) but we must humbly come together, have open discussions, and seek God and search His Word TOGETHER. Remember, we share one common enemy, and that’s NOT other people (especially other believers). Our war is NOT against flesh and blood, so let’s stop fighting each other and be united in spirit and truth, and stand firm together against the real enemy! Love and blessings!
Check out smryna christian church, Just Thoughts studies, Eagle's wings ministries,The shepherds chapel 💪😇🙏🙏🙏🙏🙏🙏🙏
| REVELATION CHAPTER 19 | STATES IT ALL. Jesus comes like a ●thief, the ●Day of the LORD, The ●First Resurrection and the ●Remainers in Christ are changed. ●Jesus with ●his Army ●wage War with the Nations, they War against Jesus and Jesus's Army. The ●SUPPER is ●fowl eating all the flesh of Jesus's enemies. The ●Antichrist and ●False Prophet are thrown into the Lake of Fire, and ●Lucifer is chain locked in Hell for 1000 years...this appointed Day Kicks off the ●Rod of Iron Judicial System with Jesus...THE MILLENNIUM.
@@margiechism I’m aware what Revelation says, but this video is specifically about the concept of a “rapture” which is not even a word in the Bible. This “doctrine” is based off of a dream some girl had in the 19th Century.
Read Matthew 24. Explains it all. Also this is for everyone not just for the Jews as most pastors teach. Pray God gives you discernment.
@Tomas Um, I’m not getting my theology from TH-cam. Yes, I’ve studied for myself. The word “rapture” is not in the Bible. Like he said in the video, it came from a dream that some girl had.
What difference does it make when? All that matters is that you are ready to meet Jesus. I have my own doctrine, it's called the "Be Ready Freddy" doctrine.
It does make a difference because Satan will impersonate Jesus' Second Coming and if you don't know this fact, you will fall for this false coming.
Yes, it does make a difference. Satan appears first; see 2 Thessalonians 2: 3, 4
The Antichrist (Satan) is disguised as Christ, see 2 Corinthians 11: 14
The fake Christ just might say, I’ve come to rapture you away.
Just want you to Be more Ready Freddy.
btw, I like your doctrine 🙏
It makes a difference if you think that by being a believer God won't allow you to suffer.
Cause I can tell you this is not always the case.
Jesus said in this world we will have tribulation and this can take many forms. Secret rapture think lulls us into a false sense of comfort and security, yes its a nice idea but won't help when crisis come.
@@alvinjohnson773 No one who believes in the rapture thinks it's "secret." What in the world are you talking about?
@@cassiebennet4262 Hi Cassie, thanks for the question. The "secret rapture" is a common term used to describe the pre-millennial idea that Jesus will come and rescue his church prior to the Tribulation. This idea was first introduced by Nelson Darby in the early 1800's (He also was involved in establishing the cult of the Closed Brethren). However, the more commonly held view is that the rapture of believers and the coming of Jesus will be at the same time after the Tribulation.
Apart from the weak support from the Bible, the idea of a rapture where Jesus comes in secret prior to his second coming is also dangerous because it implies that God won't allow suffering to happen to us. (Try explaining that to Christians in North Korea). It is dangerous because when difficulties and challenges arise in our live we won't be able to cope with it if we hold to this idea.
I hope this helps explain things.
Well Spoken. Thanks for sharing the BIBLE truth. Margrette Mc Donald 16 years old was a very disturbed girl.
Can you then explain 2 Corinthians 12:1-4 from the "very disturbed" Apostle Paul? What is "caught up"?
It came from the Bible, Paul's letters specifically, who was the one who received the revelation of the church and its teachings. That is why of the 27 times that mystery or mysteries is used, the words are used by him 20 times and by John in Revelation 4 times. I find it ironic that these two apostle's writings are disputed the most by gainsayers.
Thank you. I already knew all this but I appreciate you telling the truth about the non-biblical rapture doctrine!
@mal'ak emeth Have you ever read "The Church and the Tribulation" by Robert Gundry?
mal'ak emeth you’ll catch up.....hopefully
So.. Christ telling us He IS coming back to get us so where He is we will be.. I take that for just what it says. I also take what Paul said.. we that remain. Paul said "WE" how odd. Shall I go on? How about that Hymn writer? You must have searched no? Well this hymn writer wrote about "caught up" happening before the great tribulation. He wrote this in 300400AD. I saw the scrolls. I then watched on a Christian show some time later..this man showing talking about this SAME Hymn writer.. wow that was awesome. He showed even more old old scrolls where they talked about CAUGHT UP before the great trib
This does NOT prove pre trib.. but the simple fact it was talked preached about. The question is.. if one is not watching does not believe.. Christ comes.. you do anyway? Hmm.. please.. no man on this earth has clue when He is coming. If you want to test this.. go for it.. pray fast seek ask HIM the king of kings lord of lords.. should I be ready watching NOW for you?
Caught up will happen. No man gets to know.. and we know for fact.. He Christ the Father and the sweet sweet Holy Spirit has never once told ANYONE when. See I will be with Him WHERE He is.. and then return with Him.. as its written.
I have seen wonders..not to boast.. but.. what I look at is WHY have I seen things? I simple believe what He said. He said.. Hes coming for me.. Like a old Jewish wedding. They pay a price for her. He then goes back to his fathers house to make them a place. She.. well she stays behind getting ready not knowing when he will come for her. So that candle has to always be lite. About a year later mostly at night with some friends he comes for her. As he gets closer he makes a noise so she knows hes coming. Takes her back to his fathers house for about a week. PROVES nothing but..what are the odds.
Like a very famous man of God once said "I am post trib. BUT..if Christ comes now? I AM READY!" thats wise
The rapture is Biblical. Ask God to show you truth.
Read The Incredible Coverup by Dave MacPherson
Amen. I use to be pretrib. But after reading scripture myself, I changed to post trib.
"" JOHN DARBY DID NOT INVENT THE PRETRIBE RAPTURE "" "" THEO HEARTSILL ,JEWISH WEDDING ""
@@richardwooten7657
⚠️The pre-tribulation rapture is counter reformation false theology spawned from the pen of Francisco Ribera; Jesuit monk, circa 1585 A.D.
And the strange bedfellow of this false teaching is the seven year tribulation.
A so called gap in the 70 weeks.
@viviane truyen
Liar!
@viviane truyen
And white robes were given unto every one of them; and it was said unto them, that they should rest yet for a little season, until *their fellowservants* also and their brethren, that *should be killed as they were* should be fulfilled.
{Revelation 6:11}
^
There are two dispensations of tribulation, first for 1,260 years, before the beast from out of the sea received a deadly wound, and after the deadly wound has been healed, and the false prophet (the beast from out of the earth) has made an image to the first beast, and he shall ascend out of the bottomless pit (the grave) and go onto perdition. (In so doing satan is mocking the death, and resurrection of Jesus Christ, as it is his nature to do.)
And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had *not worshipped the beast* neither *his image* neither had received *his mark* upon their foreheads, [cognitive] or in their hands; [actions] and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.
{Revelation 20:4}
-->No second chances.
He that is unjust, let him be unjust still: and he which is filthy, let him be filthy still: and he that is righteous, let him be righteous still: and he that is holy, let him be holy still.
"And, behold, I come quickly; and my reward is with me, to give *every man* according as his work shall be."
{Revelation 22:11-12}
Judgment has already been made in heaven, where Jesus is our advocate (stands for his saints) in judgment with the Father.
@viviane truyen
For my people are foolish, *they have not known me* they are sottish children, and *they have no understanding* they are wise to do evil, but to do good they have no knowledge.
I beheld the earth, and, lo, *it was without form and void* and the heavens, and they had no light.
I beheld the mountains, and, lo, they trembled, and all the hills moved lightly.
I beheld, and, lo, *there was no man* and all the birds of the heavens were fled.
I beheld, and, lo, the fruitful place was a wilderness, and *all the cities thereof were broken down* at the presence of the LORD, and by his fierce anger.
For thus hath the LORD said, *The whole land shall be desolate* yet will I not make a full end.
For this shall *the earth mourn* and the heavens above be black: because I have spoken it, I have purposed it, and will not repent, neither will I turn back from it.
{Jeremiah 4:22-28}
It says, "We will meet him in the air." That's the rapture. I'm not sure how anyone could possibly misinterpret that as anything else. This guy says a lot of history, but he isn't presenting a refutation. There are medieval discussions about the rapture that predate everything he talks about here. Not one verse of Scripture is referenced in this video.
well stated. you are now the 3rd theologian I've heard this exact story/history from. well done sir. my main concern is that there are people out there who put their hope in being "raptured before things get bad". this is very concerning as our hope is supposed to be in person and the finished work of Jesus and not a rapture.
That is an excellent way to put it. A person, not an event.
This theology gives people an idea as well that they get a second chance. They negate God's eternal law which is the standard of judgement, and figure well if I am left behind I have another chance, and because they accept this theology, that is when the Lord comes upon them like a thief. God bless.
plus it has the effect of giving people a 'reason' to not be involved in politics -- why bother, I will be zapped away before anything bad happens ... The fact is, everyone will be here for the long haul and since govt 'controls' the world we live in, we all need to be informed and involved. Our futures depend upon it. Enslavement, anyone ?
I agree. Look at my comment to pkoden19. Unfortunately, people who hold fast to this often will retort w/something like "enjoy the wrath!" That type of response also says false doctrine!
Christ said "We are to make his enemies his footstool" ...probably would be difficult if we are not here amongst the enemy.
Wow hearing this history is so fascinating. I grew up absolutely indoctrinated with the rapture, and watched the Left Behind series in youth group etc. Quite terrifying and I was never convinced. Interesting hearing how this has all unfolded.
Revelation 3:10 proves a pre-trib rapture! Any non Scripture source is irrelevant!
Stephen,
Because the Spirit of Truth was keeping you from the Lie it IS, like he did many of us whom walk in truth and Light. Many of us were imposed upon by this sweeping satanic lie from TBN that flooded the airwaves, flooded most ppl's houses and minds confounding & polluting many ppl's minds with that sorcery notion.
@@edkay3601 "I will also keep you from the hour of testing" Keep is translated from tēreō, which means, to watch over, guard, or preserve. No one will escape the tribulation
@@seekingtruth2157 The Greek word translated "from" is ek, meaning "out of." Proof of a pre-trib rapture.
@@seekingtruth2157 "tēreō" means "to keep", look it up.
1 Thessalonians 4:16-18 - For the Lord himself will descend from heaven with a cry of command, with the voice of an archangel, and with the sound of the trumpet of God. And the dead in Christ will rise first. Then we who are alive, who are left, will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air, and so we will always be with the Lord. Therefore encourage one another with these words.
1 Corinthians 15:51-53 “Behold! I tell you a mystery. We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed, in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet. For the trumpet will sound, and the dead will be raised imperishable, and we shall be changed. For this perishable body must put on the imperishable, and this mortal body must put on immortality.
I have often been confronted by this question when I teach the end times as being the last days of the Old Covenant: What about the rapture, being taken up in the air?
Let me say this.
Did you know whenever Paul mentions “in the air” he does not mean in mid-air but that “the spiritual realm”?
Ephesians 2:2
2 in which you used to live when you followed the ways of this world and of the ruler of the kingdom of the air, the spirit who is now at work in those who are disobedient.
The air was the realm of Satan. It was where you were spiritually. So when Paul says:
1 Thessalonians 4:17
17 After that, we who are still alive and are left will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And so we will be with the Lord forever.
It means you are transferred from the kingdom of darkness into his kingdom of marvelous light.
You were transformed from Sinai to Zion. You were transformed from
“Worshipping in Jerusalem” to “worshipping in the spirit”. You no longer look toward the “old Jerusalem and it’s temple” for worship. You now look into yourself as the new temple and the New Jerusalem.
You are transformed in the spiritual realm from Adam to Christ. You are moved from being a slave of sin to a slave of righteousness.
You are transformed from Hagar to Sarah. You are transformed from the bride of the Law to the bride of Christ.
Paul tells us when that was going to happen.
2 Corinthians 3:15-18
15 Even to this day when Moses is read, a veil covers their hearts. 16 But whenever anyone turns to the Lord, the veil is taken away. 17 Now the Lord is the Spirit, and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is freedom. 18 And we, who with unveiled faces all reflect the Lord’s glory, are being transformed into his likeness with ever- increasing glory, which comes from the Lord, who is the Spirit.
This transformation happened when the veil is taken away. It happen when we see the Spirit.
What is this veil that is taken away? It is the Law of Moses. You know when that happened?
AD70. When the temple was destroyed. It was when the veil is fully lifted away. That was when you were transformed with a blink of an eye.
That’s when your engagement to Jesus became a wedding. You are as he is in heaven.
Romans 16:20
20 The God of peace will soon crush Satan under your feet.
The grace of our Lord Jesus be with you.
The key word to this promise is “soon”. Not 1000 years. Not 2000 years. But soon.
Paul tells us that we will meet Jesus in the air in 1st Thessalonians 4.
A quick overview of 1st Thessalonians.
1 Thessalonians 1:10
and to wait for his Son from heaven, whom he raised from the dead-Jesus, who rescues us from the coming wrath.
The wrath was already coming at the time when the book was written.
1 Thessalonians 2:14-16
For you, brothers and sisters, became imitators of God’s churches in Judea, which are in Christ Jesus: You suffered from your own people the same things those churches suffered from the Jews who killed the Lord Jesus and the prophets and also drove us out.
They displease God and are hostile to everyone in their effort to keep us from speaking to the Gentiles so that they may be saved. In this way they always heap up their sins to the limit. The wrath of God has come upon them at last.
The wrath of God was coming upon them “at last”. This means it’s “around the corner”. It is however not directed towards the whole world but just the Jews who oppose the gospel from being taught to the Gentiles. Hence it could not have been directed to the whole world which makes up almost the whole world.
1 Thessalonians 3:3-4
so that no one would be unsettled by these trials. For you know quite well that we are destined for them. In fact, when we were with you, we kept telling you that we would be persecuted. And it turned out that way, as you well know.
Paul tells the listeners to his letter who was addressed to that they were destined for this. Not our generation but theirs.
1 Thessalonians 5:1-4
The Day of the Lord
Now, brothers and sisters, about times and dates we do not need to write to you, for you know very well that the day of the Lord will come like a thief in the night. While people are saying, “Peace and safety,” destruction will come on them suddenly, as labor pains on a pregnant woman, and they will not escape.
But you, brothers and sisters, are not in darkness so that this day should surprise you like a thief.
This tells us that the Thessalonians had at that time already know when the “thief in the night” was coming. There was no need for Paul to tell them when he was coming.
In others words, the whole letter tells us the events mentioned in the whole book was about to take place at that time.
So I have a question.
How can the following verses be interpreted to be events that have yet to happen until today?
1 Thessalonians 4:16-17
For the Lord himself will come down from heaven, with a loud command, with the voice of the archangel and with the trumpet call of God, and the dead in Christ will rise first. After that, we who are still alive and are left will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And so we will be with the Lord forever.
Jesus tells that in Luke that Satan fell like lightning.
Luke 10:18
18 He replied, “I saw Satan fall like lightning from heaven.
Do you know where your position is at this moment?
Ephesians 1:20
20 which he exerted in Christ when he raised him from the dead and seated him at his right hand in the heavenly realms,
Seated in the heavenly realms. So you see you already have met him in the air. The word “in the air” means the heavenly realms. In fact it was where Satan dwelled.
Ephesians 2:2
2 in which you used to live when you followed the ways of this world and of the ruler of the kingdom of the air, the spirit who is now at work in those who are disobedient.
So you see the prince of the air got kicked out when you met Jesus in the air and when you took your seat in the heavenly realms.
That happened in AD70. That’s why Paul said in Romans 16 at the time he was writing it: He will SOON crush Satan under YOUR feet.
Since it has happened in AD70, He has crushed Satan under your feet.
That’s who you are now. Seated with him. Forever.
Yep. Those two scriptures cover the two raptures.
Yes, videos like this don't like to explain what 1 and 2 Thessalonians means or 1 Corinthians. Jesus' first coming ON EARTH was his birth. Jesus' second coming ON EARTH will be at the end of the 7-year Tribulation. The rapture happens in between these events - in the AIR - In the CLOUDS. We are on the brink right now.
Why don't you start with the beginning of the paragraph? check out The shepherds chapel, Smyrna Christian Church, Just Thoughts studies.get a Strong's concordance bible dictionary in Greek and Hebrew.that rapture word isn't in there or King James people are adding to God's word not good.
Please read 1Corinthians 15:51-53; 1Thessalonians 4:13-18; Revelation 3:10,11 and many other passages....
amen
From the Word of God.
I used to be post tribulation but then after studying the scriptures and reading Revelation 6 about The Lamb opening the seals and all the horrible things that happen I realized God's not going to pour out his wrath on his bride. We won't be here.
Yep. If you really have even the slightest understanding of God's love for us and Jesus then you understand he isn't going to subject us to wrath.
Rapture is posttrib. It’s not debatable.
1. Resurrection PRECEDES the rapture. 1 Thessalonians 4. Dead in Christ shall rise first.
2. Jesus said the resurrection is on ‘the last day’ over and over and over in John 6. That is the last day of the age of grace. The last day of life without Christ. And so shall we ever be with the Lord. Obviously then this also means the rapture is on the last day since the resurrection PRECEDES THE RAPTURE.
3. The resurrection / rapture is in Rev 20:4. John says he saw the dead come to life. HERE is the resurrection and rapture. It’s post trib. AFTER Rev 5-19. The church goes through the tribulation. We will not experience Gods wrath just like Israel did not experience Gods wrath when He punished Egypt.
Any other position other than a posttrib rapture twists and distorts Gods Word.
Matthew 24:29-31
The Glorious Return
“But immediately after the tribulation of those days……..And then the sign of the Son of Man will appear in the sky, ………….And He will send forth His angels with A GREAT TRUMPET and THEY WILL GATHER TOGETHER His elect from the four winds, from one end of the sky to the other.
---
Jesus Himself says that He is coming back for His church AFTER the tribulation.
How can it get ANY CLEARER????
Stop with the false doctrine of a PreTrib rapture. This bad doctrine of escapism has got to be refuted. Too many people planning their escape instead of filling their lamp with oil
@@andrewh7599
lol. The first century Christian’s were fed to lions and dipped in tar and set on fire to light parties for the Romans.
You don’t understand.
@@andrewh7599
I remember when God raptured the Israelites out of Egypt. And when He raptured Noah out of the flood. Don’t you ?
noah went thru the flood. @@willpower6720
OmG thank you! I been studying the bible for some years now, started when I was a senior in high school, I never embraced the rapture theory that I've heard from about 2nd grade, but I recently (since 4 yrs. ago) am staunchly against that belief because when you read the bible allowing the Holy Spirit to guide you and not traditional teaching you see that the rapture belief is not true. However, your explanation of the origin solidifies my belief. I so needed to see this video!🎉
For at or about 1500 years,due to catholocism, unless one could understand Latin, most were at the mercy of the "priethood' for interpretation of scripture. Guttenberg changed all of that and scripture began to be open to the common believer. So there is about 1500 of the 1800 years that your thesis falls back on. A quick critical assessment of the avenues of thought that were closed , by Roman Catholic "theology", will reveal PLENTY of light that was blocked only to be revealed by the full opening of the scripture via the printing press!
I wish this was more obvious to people. More people can read today than any time in history as well. How many people could actually read just in the 1800s, not many.
For 1500 years protestants did not exist until Martin Luther came along. If you do not wish to be caught up in the rapture may God grant you your heart's desire. As for me I am gone and not looking back.
Reading revelations never gave me the sense of near dread and terror that ive heard from so many dispensationalists.
Its unfortunate that this has been argued so hard because i hear it from so many people who hold it to it so hard so we can just wait and avoid the world we live in entirely.
The purpose of the book of Revelation is not to instill fear into believers, but the opposite, to encourage and strengthen believers who are already suffering at the hands of the Romans. Revelation declares that God is the winner of all battles: history, the present, the future, both in the physical world and in the spiritual world. Revelation is encouragement and strength while suffering. God is victorious and so are all Christians, past, present, and future.
Thanks to the Lord who snapped me out of the pretrib rapture delusion. I was born again in a church that strongly supported it. And even preached on it for a couple years. But one day during a church service while the pastor was preaching on the pretrib rapture, God opened my eyes to the same text that was being preached, and I saw it was not saying what he was preaching. And it really is that clear. It simply doesn’t say a pretrib rapture anywhere in Gods word!
You can debate pretrib/postrib all you want. The Bible is absolutely clear that there IS a rapture. What I find so odd is that so many of those who hold to the posttrib teachings get so caught up in this issue rather than just SAVING SOULS! Rapture and rapture timing beliefs ARE NOT salvation issues. You can believe on either side of this issue and STILL BE SAVED. Quit arguing about this issue and get off your butts and GO PREACH THE GOSPEL!
@@AVKingJamesBible What makes you think we are not preaching the gospel to the lost? And what makes you think I hold a post trib view? I believe both views are not accurate. Yet at least the post view causes people to prepare to endure. You say this is not an salvation issue, yet the Bible is clear that there will be a falling away from the faith, which stands to reason that those who believe they will not have to endure through the pressure of the tribulation, and then find themselves facing what they were told they would never have to face in a time of great spiritual deception and persecution, could further be deceived into thinking that if their teachers were wrong about them not having to endure the tribulation, then maybe they are wrong about everything! We preach the gospel to unbelievers, we teach the truth of Gods word to those who believe, so they will not fall away, and will overcome unto the end. We live in a time foretold when many will heap up teachers to tickle their ears, and reject sound doctrine, and believe fables. I’m sorry it bothers you, but what we believe has everything to do with our salvation! Jesus said, You will know the truth, and the truth will make you free. I will continue to speak against false teachings, just as I will continue to preach Jesus to the unbelievers. Who do you think Satan is trying mostly to deceive, believers or unbelievers? Answer- Believers! He already has unbelievers deceived! The Bible’s clear that many will be deceived by false teachings in the last days. This is a warning to believers! So yes, I will teach sound doctrine to my brethren, and will preach the gospel to the unbelievers! Both are equally important. And just being quiet about error, is not loving the brethren, it’s allowing them to go on in error, possibly to the end falling away from the faith. In Christs Love!
How can you people be excited about being here for the tribulation? I'm just gonna believe God's word, and expect the "rapture".
Yes! The rapture delusion! The one where 4 year olds get raptured before the mark, and don't burn in the lake of fire for eternity! The one where Matthew 19:14 says "Let the little children come to Me, and do not forbid them; for of such is the kingdom of heaven." Do you know what the kingdom of heaven is?? Apparently you missed out on that lesson at church. You are welcome, sir. Grace to you.
@@davefields2881 Then perhaps you could show me one scripture that says the rapture happens before the tribulation? I’ve searched the Bible for the last 35 years and still haven’t come across it. I’ve found many that say after the tribulation, after the dead in Christ are resurrected, after the abomination of desolation, and Antichrist is revealed, after the sun and moon go dark, the same day that Gods wrath is poured out, not 7 years afterwards(Luke 17). Every eye will see him, not a secret rapture,( 1 Thes4), comes only as a thief in the night to those who are of the night, not the children of the day. (1Thes 5). Sir, I am not excited about the terrible time that’s coming upon the earth, or the billions of souls that will be judged because they rejected Gods mercy. I’m not looking forward to being martyred or worse, or seeing all those lost people destroyed. But I don’t fear it either! And I look at it a privilege to be chosen for that time, if it happens in my life. Don’t you think I would like to believe I can escape it all before it all happens? But it’s not my will be done, it’s Gods will be done, and if that’s the cup we are given, should we not drink it? I would love to believe that Christians will not suffer through that most horrible time. But I believe the Bible, and I know the pretrib doctrine is not scriptural. I done extensive study on the subject. And it’s simply unbiblical teaching. Yes there is a rapture, but not before the tribulation. And so I have to warn my brethren, because if I didn’t say anything about it. It would be wrong to not compel them to prepare to endure unto the end! I mean, it’s their lives, and souls at stake! In Christ’s Love!
God calls us to endurance, not escapism, which is what the Rapture embraces. This belief does not equip the believer to be prepared for the persecution of the Church to come. It sets up for disappointment, disillusionment, and a falling away from the faith.
I think it came from 1st Thessalonians 4:17
"We who are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them (dead people) in the clouds , to meet the Lord in the air and so shall we ever be with the Lord and the fairies"
So what is 1 Thessalonians 4:17-18
talking about then?
17] Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.
[18] Wherefore comfort one another with these words.
The good "doctor" was absent that day in seminary!
That section of scripture does not speak of a rapture event as you understand it. It speaks of the coming of Jesus Christ with His church who have preceded those who are still alive. Those alive on that day will be caught up to be with Him forever, because Chapter 5 continues to explain what happens to the people who were not caught up. They are "left behind" to experience the wrath of God on that Day of the LORD when He finally pours out His undiluted wrath on mankind. In that sense He has not appointed us who believe in Him to wrath but has appointed us to obtain salvation through our LORD Jesus Christ.
The problem with the rapture theology is that people do not apply faithful exegesis by reading the word in its entire context. If you do not read Thessalonians as chapter and verse but rather as you would a letter, then you would understand what the author of the letter is saying to the reader.
@kvanniekerk3792
I think you spent an awful lot of time writing your opinion. By the way, I'm not "wicked," as you say, because I happen to interpret a verse a certain way. You are obviously intelligent and well versed ,
But how much time do you spend leading others to Christ instead of trying to be a keyboard jockey theologian refuting what others believe? I wonder?
I don't agree with your theology. I will, however, respect your opinion, and I'll do it without accusing you of wickedness just because your opinion happens to be different than mine. Either way, we will find out whose right soon enough.
I hope you're ready to fly!
@@TheChube25 My intention was not to call you wicked and I apologize if that is how my reply was understood. I have removed that part of the message to clear confusion. Please forgive me, I do not mean to attack your character. Have a blessed day and thank you for pointing out my blind spot.
@kvanniekerk3792
Not a problem. We are all servants of the most high God. My wish is to see you
In heaven one day!
I’ve (mostly) been in pre-trib/rapture teaching churches all my life. I agree - nowhere does Scripture come right out and teach a pre-trib rapture in just so many words, but I think you can make a good case for it regardless. This video is an historical perspective, but I don’t see why it being a relatively recent teaching should necessarily be a disqualification, as long as it doesn’t contradict clear Scripture. I’d like to hear more from the opposing viewpoint. Subscribing and looking for some thoughtful stuff on this and other subjects. 👍
You won't get a reply from scripture, only strawmen, red herrings and other logical fallacies. Paul comes right out and says we will be caught up with him, saved from wrath, and that it was not taught in scripture. The Body of Christ is a mystery, not in scripture.
Go get another depopulation Rapture, Passover, Final Solution, ETERNAL SIN covidiot quackzine.
God want's that none shall perish but that all shall repent & follow his new commandment new covenant delivered by his son Jesus to the vineyard keepers.
Jesus had 12 disciples.
Judas hung himself after he betrayed Jesus.
John of Patmos, author of Revelation, died a natural old age death.
The other 10 disciples were murdered in horrific manners for preaching the word of Christ.
They received no free passes.
1 and 2 thess. It does and quite clearly. Theywere asking Paul if they missed the rapture because liars forged letters claiming to be from Paul that the tribulation had begun then. ( the Roman persecution ) scroll down though these resources.
www.youtube.com/@prophecywatchers/search?query=rapture
In Revelation Jesus says to expect tribulation (of man and satan), but we will not suffer God’s wrath. God’s wrath is reserved for those who work against Him. Tribulation of man and satan is totally different than God’s wrath. Pray you stay vigilant, refuse the mark of the beast, be prepared to suffer some tribulation. God’s wrath is nothing to take lightly.
God has NOT appointed us to wrath.
Chuck Missler has some very good teachings on revelations and the rapture
I totally agree with what you have shared, but you really need to prove this with scripture so people can know sound doctrine.
Why? You kidding? Prove a lie by scripture. Come on, really???
@@captainkirk7676
How about trying to discern what Scripture says, with the help of the Holy Spirit? And if we cannot be certain, how about admitting ignorance?
There is no point in brother going to war against brother over this.
@marcusonesimus3400 true! Don't unsave a brother through arguments. Let it be. Thanks my friend! Take care
@@captainkirk7676
Thank you for writing back in such an encouraging way. I needed this, being involved in some tough discussions with unbelievers. God bless you and yours.
How about people open their Bibles themselves instead of having to be spoon-fed info. That's how we got in this mess in the first place. Dead church members lacking the Spirit and understanding and not able to interpret clear scripture!
I learned about what you were speaking to while I was at seminary that was 50 years ago. I cannot believe the canvas that I see every day on Facebook and other social media about this idea of a rapture your historical knowledge parallels mine and it’s sad that so much junk is being disseminated. Thank you for your work. I’ll sign up for your channel. May God bless you.
The phase pre-trib should be pre-wrath. Jesus said . (And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again, and receive you unto myself; that where I am, there ye may be also. 1 Thessalonians 4:17 The bible says (For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a loud command, with the voice of an archangel, and with the trumpet of God, and the dead in Christ will be the first to rise. 17After that, we who are alive and remain will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And so we will always be with the Lord.) Do not be left behind! Ben Witherington is mistaken
About 1/3 of the US is Evangelical/Christian Zionist. It kind of amazes me that Christians idol worship Israel while Christians are bombed same as Muslims in Gaza. I really don't get it, unless the Israeli rabbis are behind the promotion of this stuff, it certainly benefits them. Netanyahu has mentioned them as Christian Zionists and how much they aid Israel.
It came from those that Paul warned the Church about!
Paul warned the Church to NOT be deceived by those that come saying that Christs Coming is at hand BEFORE we have seen what Paul said we must first see.
Paul warned the Church and sadly many Churches ignore Pauls warning and they Teach against Paul the Apostle!
Greetings! Not exactly… According to Darby biographer Max Weremchuk, Darby received his insights in solo studying of the Bible while convalescing from a serious injury. Pretty sure he was a Reformed cessationist, too. His major contribution isn’t so much the dispensations, but the understanding that Israel and the church are distinct in the plan of God. Love your stuff!
When the sun is darkened and the moon turned to blood, that’s when we will see the son of man shining like lightning from the East to the west and return to send his angels to gather us who are alive and remain.
Where was he then after all the eclipses and the blood moon occurences that happened from past years? Nowhere go be found because its all foolishness.
@ Dr Nobody
Do you realise the HISTORICAL CONTEXT when Jesus said this ? He was asked by his diciples about something that would happen in 3050 ???
He was asked by his disciples about the DESTRUCTION OF THE TEMPLE in Jerusalem !
When was the temple destroyed ? Please do some historical research !
The rapture concept is relatively new. It started with an Anglo-Irish theologian, who in the 1830s invented the concept. This may come as a shocker to many, but it’s a fact: Before John Nelson Darby imagined this scenario in the clouds, no Christian had ever heard of the rapture.
Rapture is an end time delusion my friend for those who love to be seduced and believe a lie..
G B, “Dispensationalism Before Darby” by Dr William C Watson proves that Dispensationalism and the Rapture were rediscovered during the Protestant Reformation when Englishmen disobeyed their leaders by translating the Bible into English and spreading them around. That's when people started learning what God actually said rather than what popes and kings claimed that God said. And the book cites hundreds of archival records to prove this.
@@suga9875 I'm glad people aren't believing the left behind nonsense, but now I'm reading them saying things like theres no rapture theres no tribulation both of those are biblical its the dispensational hal lyndsey, left behind nonsense that says it will be invisible and/or multiple, there is a tribulation and there is a rapture.
If there is no rapture, please explain what Paul meant saying we would be caught up to meet the Lord in the clouds?
@@thelionofjudah77u82 rapture is not the same as second coming. You quite words referring to post tribulation second coming.
Have the courage and love to lay down your life for king jesus !!! And you wont worry about rapture ,pre or post
Very good intro on dispensationalism and rapture theory, but left off the late 19th century acceptance by most all "new" denominations starting with AB Simpson / C&MA in 1885, the 1880 Niagara Bible Conference, the 1900 Bible Conference where Wily Cyrus" / C.I. Scofield got the idea of putting these very complicated and confusing notes in a study bible. The pentecostal denominations which started in the early 20th century including the Assembly of God, etc. not to mention taking over most all Baptist Churches, but Ben only had 7 minutes, he did a good intro.
It is so sad to see Christians arguing over this rather than searching scriptures and questioning what they are being taught to see if it is true. I will just stick with what I keep finding through studying, the Day of the Lord Gathering.
".....in the twinkling of an eye..." 😁
@@1969cmp At the last trump, after the tribulation. Yeah.
@@kareizaamune429 ...and for what purpose are believers required to go through the Great Tribulation?
@@1969cmp I wouldn't claim to know. I think it is the ultimate test of our allegiance, as Christ is coming for a church without spot or wrinkle. It is not a pleasant idea, but church history is replete with records of people (including 11 of the apostles) that laid down their lives for their faith. I believe our readiness to face the tribulation will be in proportion to our closeness to Christ. And if we choose to build up our faith, we can actually look forward to it with anticipation.
@@kareizaamune429 Everyday life is a test. And people are either saved or not at any given time.
For the Lord himself will come down from heaven, with a loud command, with the voice of the archangel and with the trumpet call of God, and the dead in Christ will rise first. 17 After that, we who are still alive and are left will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And so we will be with the Lord forever. --1 Thessalonians 4:16,17.
At the seventh trump this happens not until antichrist comes first don't be deceived Matthew ch 24 Mark ch 13 read it
I just don’t understand how they don’t understand this scripture to be exactly what it is. My mind is blown. We will be gathered together to meet Him in the air to go to the wedding feast for 7 years. The celebrate the marriage feast of the Lamb. Then we will come back with Him on the back of horses during the second coming. He’ll wipe it all clean with a clean sweep… every tongue will confess and knee will bow that Jesus Christ is Lord!
How is this verse not taken as the key verse as we will not be here for the 70th week of Daniel?
Just like Noah was saved out of the flood so shall we be out of the tribulation. Just as Enoch and Elijah was raptured up, so shall we be taken up. We, the church are not the Jewish Nation, not a part of the of the end times. We are removed as you can read in the beginning of Revelation.
Anyways what’s even more mind boggling is how people are relieved and happy that there isn’t a rapture. Wow…
That’s my blessed hope!
Literally they want to be here for the tribulation.
Seriously? People have no idea what hell on earth is coming. The Holy Spirit will not be here during that time. Demons will be unleashed. People are so ignorant for lack of knowledge it’s so sad.
I just pray that souls are saved because that’s all that matters. Because whether you believe or not, you will be raptured. But how sad is it that you don’t give another person that same blessed hope blows my mind indeed.
Keep looking up, our blessed Savior is indeed going to call us up soon my deer brother and sisters in Christ soon!!! Amen!!!
When we read Luke 21:36, 1 Thessalonians 4:16 1Corinthians 15:51,and and Revelation 3:10, it becomes clear that these scriptures point to the rapture. And Luke 21: 36, and Revelation 3:10 point to a pretribulation rapture. The teaching of the rapture is deeper than we realize. And to better understand the rapture we need to study the Jewish festival's as well.
I'm a level headed Christian and I have never believed in the idea of a rapture. As a concept it comes literally out of thin air and it is nutty; a thing of fantasy. I trust Scripture and specifically what Jesus said and I really don't worry about a thing because I have learned that He has never failed me or let me down. The Holy Spirit is amazing and in His care I have complete freedom from worry and being riddled by nonsense. Believer's really need to get a grip and understand that IF you are in the Lord's Hands the rapture doesn't matter. Not at all!
Then if it is not important why would Jesus tell us to WATCH and pray?
@@heknows5418 There are several instances in Scripture where Jesus tells his disciples to 'watch and pray'. Here are two:
Matt 26:41 - Watch and pray, that ye enter not into temptation: the spirit indeed is willing, but the flesh is weak.
Mark 13:33-37 - Take ye heed, watch and pray: for ye know not when the time is. For the Son of man is as a man taking a far journey, who left his house, and gave authority to his servants, and to every man his work, and commanded the porter to watch.
The first is prob not related to His return but I would agree that the second could be construed to be related. I think that the Mark verse directly is related to the Lord's 2nd Coming, rather than the even more popular idea of a Rapture.
If you can find a scripture that fits your idea that Jesus told anyone to watch and pray for a Rapture I'd love to see it.
@@58landman ok here it is Matt 24 :37-42 I believe these scriptures proves a pre tribulation rapture , what did Jesus say ,when the Son of Man returns it will as it was in the days of Noah, eating drinking given in marriage, in other words life as usual no tribulation before the flood, my question is and Jesus in his own words says life will be going on as usual, two in the field working two at the mill, now explain how life is going to be “usual “ during the tribulation there will be no eating , drinking, and giving in marriage it will be full on survival mode just to survive vs 42 Jesus said we must keep watch for we don’t know the day He returns, and if no rapture how did John see the Bride in Heaven in Rev 19 , how and when did the Bride get there and preparing to return with Christ to reign with him for a 1000 years
@@heknows5418 I still ascribe those verses to His 2nd Coming and not to a Rapture. 'As in the days of Noah' describes the time just before the world was destroyed by a flood. The various references to "the day of the Lord" also refer to the 2nd coming of Jesus.
Jesus, in Matt 30 describes what will occur and no one really knows His timeline but He does say that there will be a great tribulation and v-29, immediately after the tribulation His sign will appear and He will then send out His angels to gather His elect, etc. The phrases describing 'one will be taken and one will be left behind' could apply to a Rapture but the phrases are always used in relation to His return.
As for Rev 19, people claim to understand it but even the best Bible scholars will admit that it is very difficult and I have never gained anything that I can use from it that has the same authority as the words of Jesus in the Gospels. Fulfillement of the events of Rev could take thousands of years.
Jesus spoke literally about most things and I believe that if He had planned a taking away of His church at any time prior to or during the Tribulation He would have plainly stated it.
@@58landman be it unto thee according to thy faith, I have a feeling it’s all going to play out in short time , be blessed in your study of the word