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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 17 เม.ย. 2012
- seedbed.com
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Gay marriage is one of the most polarizing issues of our time. It has often proven to be an unassailable issue for families and has managed to threaten the unity of local churches and entire denominations. In the middle of this crisis stand individuals who remain confused and perplexed because their personal experience is confronted by the church’s testimony to traditional marriage. It is imperative that Christians thoughtfully engage this topic while retaining its prophetic voice on gender complementarity. However, it is desperately necessary for churches to learn how to compassionately walk alongside gay Christians who want to remain faithful to following Jesus in our difficult contemporary context.
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Study the Letter to the Romans with Ben Witherington; get the book + videos from our store here:
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Paul had a long entrance to his letter Rom, but his goal was to reach Rom 3:23 and then vs 24. 👏 Nót that i herewith say a wrong lifestyle is ok in the eyes of our living Father and Son.
To know the TRUTH and help those in SIN , the Holy Spirit will guide us to help those say in homosexuality using the root cause.
Very few churches have capable ministries of Deliverance
Such a clear message in such few words. I am very thankful for you Bro Ben Witherington!
This man is an exceptional teacher! I am now stumbling upon and binging on his segments here on TH-cam and I am THANKFUL!
Good instruction from the Word. Thank you Dr. Ben.
We have all sorts of very natural tendencies that can be destructive. Some of us are naturally born selfish, some are born with bad tempers, and the list goes on. Should we simply say "I was born this way, so God must have created me with the intent to act on those tendencies" Of course not. It's part of Christian theology that we're all born with evil desires. That's the result of the fall. But that doesn't mean we embrace them all as "the way we were made." We seek Jesus to restore us.
You are assuming homosexual tendencies are evil. What is the basis of your assumption?
The difference is you weren’t born with a bad temper. That’s something your environment has dictated and something you have CHOICE to exhibit or not.
@@fayedavis434 so you’re arguing that everyone is born with the same temperament?
@@markjohnson543 the bible dude.. This whole video explains this.. What it again but this time pay attention..
ah but people can be trained to not be selfish or bad tempered but as LGBT are BORN that way why should they change to please you?
I unexpectedly became a Christian three years ago, started reading a Bible, and (around Deuteronomy) asked God to remake me into who and what He wants me to be. One very unexpected side effect is that I've been heterosexual (for the first time) for the past three years. I'm 54.
Look at Becket Cook, and X Out Loud on my public subscriptions list.
We're real. We exist. And Jesus Christ remade us the way He wants us to be / how God made us to be.
The worst and most unloving thing for a Christian to do is to tell people in the toxic alphabet soup that they don't have to surrender to Jesus and be remade; that they don't have to repent (turn away) from this evil.
Attitudes of "Christians" I've known almost cost me my eternal salvation. I became an angry atheist, radical feminist, and pro choice because of the "Christians" I'd known. When I read the Bible cover to cover three years ago, I was shocked to realize I'd never known a genuine Christian.
I'm glad to see channels like this one, and channels featuring messages by Voddie Baucham, and others.
I have a gf this happened to about the same age at that time lol
@@whatweshouldknow5648 God is waking up thousands of us, in His time.
God bless you! Thank you for your awesome testimony and powerful encouragement to speak truth, because truth IS love!
@@ThePrairieChronicles thank you for taking the time to watch it. Regardless of the nature of brokenness from which we came, Christ is the power to redeem. We Walk this journey together! God bless you!
Well conceived response full of grace and truth. Thank you, Dr. Witherington.
yes as homophobia is the real sin here
Perfectly sound. ❤
Take care also, and I pray that you will attain the desires of your heart in Jesus mighty Name - Amen.
This is super sound and loving understanding of God’s Word.
Meaning is only found in surrender to the Father, ultimately, not the expression of our inclinations, whatever they may be.
To Wesley, I believe it does not mean National or Corporate because it goes on too say in Romans 9: 14-24 about individuals, on how God can do what He pleases and to whom He pleases to do it too.
Absolutely brilliant, this guy is masterful.
I've never seen so many progressive christians in a TH-cam comments section 🤦♂️
They're not Christians, they're new world order slaves, pretending to be.
You make good points here. I agree with pretty much everything that you said.
And who says that God finds rape "perfectly acceptable"? Certainly not the Bible I read.
Of course not, are you suggesting God makes them do this. Ppl get affected by their environment, school, vaccines, main stream TV etc certainly not the creators doing
Love this message
Ben speaks with Mike at times. They both get it! Text, in context tells the truth about the author's point.
I agree 100%
Great teaching of the Truth! Thank you.
O that all church's would listen and Repent and teach what the Word of God Almighty says, Amen, brother, Amen,*¤*!
All churches can't even get Yeshua's name right...😉
@@andydierickx4346a d
*His name? Salvation* *If we Believe in Him* *that ls Y'shuah,* *Jesus,iesous or* *which language a* *person ls.!*
*Immanuel*
@@geraldjohnson8871 Rubbish.
Names don't get translated.
'Jesus' is an invention of the Roman Church. Light-skinned and unmarried..to fit a narrative.
@@andydierickx4346 a d
I kind of thought when l read your comment You are a real Un-believer in the power of God But just So You know the Father is Alive and His Son Jesus can aide you in your failures before you leave this World and Stand before Him on Judgement day. Your Choice l have made mine over the Events of my Life and l choose to follow Gods Lead and obey as much as possible his Commandments. No one will escape Judgement Even Un-Believers.! Shalowm is From Almighty God Creator.
@@geraldjohnson8871 you "kind of thought"??? Keep trying..you'll get it right eventually.
Please explain how you came to the assumption that I'm an un-believer from what I wrote?
Or is that just the generic response from arrogant bored-again Sunday Clubbers when confronted with truth?
I suppose next I'll be 'demonic' huh?
Stay ignorant. It doesn't change my life one iota.
It's not me you have to answer to 😉
Good concise Biblical teaching.
well said!
Beautifully said. God bless!
This man of God is a breath of fresh air.
I always give an example as to the only type of judging we are to do when it comes to other sinners. It is -
My husband and I have friends who live in other states. We get together each year for a reunion. There is me and my husband - a married Christian couple. There is another couple who are same-sex, and the third is heterosexual but unmarried.
We are not supposed to judge the other two simply because God's word says that what they do is a sin. It does not give us the right to discipline another sinner. It is God's job to deal with everyone's sins. He says in Romans 3:23 that "all have sinned and fall short of the Glory of God." He didn't say "unless you are... (fill in the blank)."
The way we are to judge is that when these friends come over, they have to sleep separately. We cannot help them sin, but other than that, we can be friends. Same as having someone who is an alcoholic or drug addict. You don't allow them to do those things in your home. Other than that, we are to treat them with the same Grace and Love that God so freely gives to us. Well, as good as a human can anyway.
It is human nature to fear what we do not understand. satan really counts on that to sow his chaos and cause people to be divided and not spread the Love of God. he doesn't want us to have any time with God and will do what he can at all costs to try and take your focus off of Him.
satan is getting panicky. he knows the time is not far off, and he is doing all he can exponentially.
Please, do not take me wrong with the following belief. I know God loves all of us equally, but when it comes to satan's handy work and sin, It isn't the atheists or agnostics that he wants, they are no challenge or prize. What is a prize, is to win someone from Christ. That is the ultimate prize. With the Gifts I have had all of my life, you can see over the decades every single time I got up and dusted myself off, he was not too happy. he has worked overtime for sure.
Anyway, I am really grateful for finding this channel. I can't wait to share it with my daughter.
Superior to other human beings? How can I be superior when I sin just like any other? For ALL have sinned,and fallen short of God's glorious standard, Scripture tells us. The results of all our sins are the world we now see around us. But God has a remedy for us all in the form of Jesus Christ and His saving work. I thank God for the solution He has provided for me to escape from the effects of all my sins, as well as providing the same for all who choose to do so.
historian186 amen brother or sister!
Now, go and sin no more.
In general, is it true to say that stigma is a sin? Is it sinful for a society to stigmatize certain behaviors? Especially when those behaviors cannot be made illegal?
Very well laid out. What he said is 100% biblical.
The bible is very clear in Roman's 1❤
They may let you in the church but are you really warmly welcomed.?
Good balanced perspective. Thank God there are still some sane people in the UMC!
Jesus often said that certain behaviors were permitted because of the hardness of hearts' when it comes to Mosaic law. Such was the case with divorce. Considering original marriage was between one man and one woman, and Jesus affirmed it in the New Testament, I think it's safe to say that polygamy was among those behaviors that was tolerated, but wasn't ideal. Jesus returned marriage to what it was meant to be.
Great masterclass. Very smart man. God bless you.
Is
Homosexual monogamy worse than heterosexual infidelity?
Almost no one fears homosexual persons, though they may fear mainstreaming homosexuality. Of course we should relate to anyone participating in willful chronic sin differently that a believer submitting,, however poorly, to the authority of scripture. I find it troubling that you had no problem calling “stigmatizing” homosexuals a sin, but softened your language describing homosexuality itself as “inappropriate.”
It is inappropriate but it's not of their own fault they feel this way and when they learn the laws of nature, the universe and do not seek out truth is when its damaging to their soul. Just as a thief that steals, realizes itsc wrong but keeps doing it. They're not trying to see the truth. If they want to correct it, they can do anything thru christ that strengthens us.
This is clearly, a difficult issue. But my thought is, God would not say something is wrong if a person was somehow not responsible for their behavior, Ben made a very good point yes are all fallen people, and sin runs deep, but somehow I come back to the ultimate mind, God, nothing catches him by surprise, he saw this issue like he sees everything and he said this behavior is wrong. I think we forget that marriage and sex are sacred, they were given by God, and not to be debased.
*God specifically told Solomon NOT to multiply to himself wives... among other things. So Solomon was *sinning* by having so many wives and concubines.
**And Jesus said, "Moses--because of the *hardness of your hearts*--*suffered* you to put away your wives: *but from the beginning it was not so*."
And the Bible says, "[The Lord] is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance."
But America's judgment is coming... Lord have mercy.
The only judgement on America is from the idea of God that lives in your head. Wake up. It is only a thought, and a negative one which is not helpful.
Not a difficult issue. The Gold Standard is The Word. We are not to continue in our sin just because it is an "inclination" and expect God to just wink at our precociousness, no matter what the sin. When we walk out of the church door as a child of God, there is supposed to be repentance (changing)in our daily walk in The Way.
It's Sin, God Turns them over to their Evil Desires , His Done with them ( Romans 1 )
what?
They recruit….that is the problem.
I’ve seen them go into a church and encourage kids that have that tendency….that it’s ok. Basically they say they were born that way….That is how God made them.
My daughter got involved in a Gay girl from church encouraged her to be gay.
Now my daughter lives a lesbian lifestyle & won’t have much to do with us because we won’t accept and approve of her lifestyle & “wife”. They don’t want us to disagree….they want full on acceptance.
We can’t say that as Bible believers. We can’t say it’s ok because of the Bible.
Churches that fold like Andy Stanley make it even harder on us.
Churches accepting & affirming behavior is a nightmare for Christians.
They’ve made my life so much harder.
"Various studies point to different, even conflicting positions, such as a combination of genetic, hormonal, and environmental influences,[1] with biological factors involving a complex interplay of genetic factors and the early uterine environment,[2] or no genetic influence" Hardly ringing, conclusive evidence on your "innate" assertion. Anyone wanting the references for this quote can contact me. But again,that is immaterial. God can bring about change in anyone who is willing to forsake sin
You had me until you said..God can change anyone who is willing...
@@cap6tee9 check out Reverend Garry Ingraham and his ministry , Transforming Congregations. He and his wife Melissa have been delivered from their sexual brokenness and have helped many others struggling with homosexuality to find healing from sexual sin.
Early Christians also baptized in the name of Jesus Christ.
But for some reason unknown to me, the Catholic Church changed the mode to the words father son and holy ghost in the 2nd century.
I suppose they did so to make the trinity more acceptable...?
Perhaps we do not need to adhere to all the scriptures, but can indeed change, or delete as we see fit?
Jesus preached salvation in this way.
Matthew 28:19--John 3:1-7--Matthew 16:19--Acts 2:38
John 3:5=Acts 2:38 Peter and Jesus, preached the same Gospel.
Maybe because Jesus taught Peter?
We all have christ in us and your intuition is that gift. If your doing something and you have any doubts that tell you it's wrong, then it's wrong. That is doing all things without judgment. If your heart tells you it's ok and no wrong feelings at all then I wouldn't worry.worrying gets us in trouble because we only get more of what we're worrying about. The Golden rule I try to live by, do unto others as you would want them to do to you. Not our job to judge but to point out what's right, we should do then leave it be. I have a son I believe desires same sex, I hope I'm wrong. He knows how I feel about it but also knows I love him no matter what. I don't support it but would never turn from him because of it. Try and teach him the best I can
Repent
Now wait a second lol. Is it not adultery to look upon a woman with just? You cannot possibly say that the Bible only condemns the behavior and not the thought and inclination. To think hateful thoughts is tantamount to murder. To think lustful thoughts is tantamount TO THE ACTION.
Not tantamount, but of the same nature. The inward lust is the sinful seed of the outward, which is more fully developed and greater in damage and effects. Good point!
I absolutely agree with Mr. Witherington III here!
Human sexuality is complex and research is on going. To say that homosexuality is innate and this is proven is not present reality. I can provide citations to back this up. What is not in dispute is that there are people who have been homosexual in tendency but are now married to people of the opposite sex, and happily so. Why? It is because they put their faith in the Living God, and were not let down.
Agree in part up. There were some statements of tradition and dogma that I don't agree with but on the subject of the example of eunuchs. There is heavy debate on whether the word for eunuch meant the original definition of "head chief" of the court officials who serve the king or the later usage for castrated people.
I wouldn't use this as an example to further the debate on homosexuality. There's enough other blatantly clear evidence that's more proper to use.
Rom 1:26 For this cause God gave them up unto vile affections: for even their women did change the natural use into that which is against nature:
Rom 1:27 And likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust one toward another; men with men working that which is unseemly, and receiving in themselves that recompence of their error which was meet.
Rom 1:28 And even as they did not like to retain God in their knowledge, God gave them over to a reprobate mind, to do those things which are not convenient; 1Co 2:14 But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.
So Paul was prejudiced against homosexuals in the same way that most people of his time were. Are you going to allow yourself to be infected by his prejudices? If you hang onto his words on this topic and believe you are understanding the mind and attitudes of God by doing so, you are missing the essence of Christ's message. Paul had many wonderful and inspired things to say, but this was not one of his better moments. To suggest that somehow God was creating homosexual impulses in people as some kind of retribution for past wrongs is rather awful theology. Rather than follow Paul down this unhappy road of judging and condemning our brothers and sisters, I suggest you follow your heart and do what is right and feel the love of God for all people and all creatures on this earth. Don't judge or pretend to know how God is judging, but love your neighbor with all your heart. As yourself.
@@markjohnson543 Thanks Mark for jumping into the lion's den on this one with Ben being such a Major Leaguer and all. I wonder if he has changed his mind from eight years ago. I know some Methodists have knocked on the door asking for change at the National Convention.
@@markjohnson543 Paul was not taught his doctrine by men, his doctrine came from the son of God Galatians 1:12. Paul was not chosen to be an apostle by men but by the son of God and God the father Galatians 1:1.
You call this specific teaching of Paul prejudiced and that we need to avoid and then you go on to tell us that we should cherry pick Paul's teachings by accepting those which the world likes and throwing out those that the world doesn't like "Paul had many wonderful and inspired things to say, but this was not one "
You then condemn Paul as unhappy and judgmental, and that we need to follow our own hearts, yet the bible said The heart is deceitful above all things, and desperately wicked Jeremiah 17:9.
You also defined loving your neighbor as not judging them, that is not how the bible defines loving your neighbor, the bible defines loving your neighbor as warning them about their sins and feeding the poor and clothing them are examples of loving your neighbor.
You're an example of liberal Christianity which means you don't really believe the bible, you simply use it to further your own liberal agenda.
@@thecomingstorm9327 Apostle Paul was speaking of heterosexual men and women who went to adulterize with gay priests and priestesses of pagan temple in gay sexuality. Shameful it was,The natural use of their marriages was abused. The heterosexual marriage was a natural use for those individuals but they committed adultery and that was against nature. remember Romans 1 starts off listing the sins against the 10 commandments.And this was about adultery! used in a homosexual way.
Do you allow married couples to attend your church, who divorced their previous spouse on unbiblical grounds, repented of that, yet still stay married to the second spouse? Because, repentance does not eliminate the fact that they are still committing adultery by staying in the relationship.
new remarried couples committed adultery because of new relationships but are forgiven because Jesus wipes the sin slate clean and forgets it because the new marriage is sanctified and holy if the two have asked for forgiveness.
@@Elvengem Where in Scripture does it say that when a male and female are joined as "one flesh" that the one flesh union is dissolved after committing adultery, while making another one flesh union with someone else, because you asked for forgiveness? How is a "one flesh" union dissolved by God? Paul said, committing sexual fornication is "sinning against your body" and is not like any other sin. What do you suppose that means? What is the difference of sinning against yourself, as opposed to sinning against God? If fornication is not like any other sin, then how is it different?
Jesus said by "putting away, except for fornication, and marring another is committing adultery." Paul said that a woman who has a living husband and marries another "shall be called an adulteress." Where is there any sign that forgiveness in these declarations removes the outcome of adultery? Yes, there can be forgiveness, but that doesn't mean that the outcome has changed. If I kill someone, I can be forgiven, but the person is still dead. Some things in life are permanent. According to Scripture, two people joined as one flesh is permanent. Show me where being forgiven for violating that one flesh joining and making another is "wiped" away? How does it happen? You can't even see a one flesh union, so how do you know that it is no longer valid?
@@Elvengem A marriage is not sanctified, when it is defiled and fornicated. Forgiveness does not remove the defilement of a person's body, once they have committed sexual fornication. In their adulterous relationship, they made themself one flesh with another person. Forgiveness does not undo that one flesh union, just as it would not eliminate a child, if one had been conceived from it. You deceive yourself in your ignorance of Biblical marriage and the consequences of its violation. Once a person is saved and regenerated in body, it is imperative to exercise sanctification and avoid defiling their pure body, as it was before it was washed and cleansed by the blood of Christ. The marriage and their bed will always be adulterous and defiled. Hence, "let not fornication once be named among the saints." "Every sin is without the body, but he that commits fornication sins against his own body." This means the body is defiled and we don't have the wherewithal to renew it again. It is different from every other sin. One would have to be born-again all over again, and that doesn't happen.
Sometimes liars, adulterers, murderers are the keenest to cast the first stone.....
True. We see them daily: Trump-supporting MAGAts in today's GOP.
@@wdcurry111 Are you really so confused to convince yourself that I am a Trump supporter? Yikes!
Sin is a equal opportunity employer.We are all sinners and for one sinner to judge another sinner is in itself a sin.For Jesus loves all people and died for all our sins..Jesus said your sins are forgiven,so go and sin no more.Accept gods gift,repent and live
He's simply wrong. No, it's NOT about a "behavior," but about the "inclination." Yes, yes it is.
Where does Scripture say sin begins? In the heart. What did John say about hate? "He who hates his brother is a murderer, and you know no murderer has eternal life abiding in him." No. It's a matter of heart, because that is what leads to action. This is why when God saves someone, He writes His Law on their heart.
then are all men doomed to hell for our natural desire to sleep with other women? we all have sinful desires that are impossible to fully remove, this is the weakness of the flesh. we deny ourselves those desires and repent for any wrongdoings and in doing so commit ourselves
to living our lives the way God intended. homosexuals have the same problem, they're born with sinful sexual desires and must deny those urges, just like everyone else. it's a matter of flesh, not the heart, and our flesh is no stronger or holier than theirs. while our flesh is impulsive and inclined to sin, in our hearts we accept God's word and refrain from sinful behavior as that is what He wants us to do. otherwise we would all be doomed from birth
I would suggest for those who are carrying the misunderstanding that the Law of Moses is a law meant as a guide for non-Jews, a sort of perfect Divine Law, that you have a look at this lecture by Dr. Christine Hayes. She is one of the great scholars of the Hebrew Bible. The lecture is very good, and she has an award-winning book out on the topic as well. Here is the link: th-cam.com/video/4zBRLu_cNtc/w-d-xo.html . I think we need to be fully informed before using these Biblical references as evidence that God is against homosexuality, as evidenced in the Law of Moses. Her lecture does not discuss homosexuality per se, but helps correct misguided applications of the Law of Moses to non-Jews or modern society.
It's addressed in the New Testament as well. Even IF each & every sin addressed in & throughout the OT was meant strictly for Jews, it doesn't negate the fact that Christ came to fulfill the Mosaic law & in his teachings he doubles down on the sins/laws that incl. ALL. (even gentiles).
Pilate rhetorically asked, What is truth? Would it be great if he cared to hear Christ's answer? But Christ did in fact said in John 17:17 Sanctify them by the truth; Your word is truth. While Judaism may have their system of interpretation as explained by Hayes, they are not the standard in determining truth. Nor cherry picking or just selecting what you like and discard the rest. Christians should use hermeneutical tools such historical-cultural-grammatical-literary rules in interpretation to arrive at the right interpretation of the meaning and application of the text. Our language is simple enough in defining truth. Truth is based on definition and description. You define 1+1=2. You describe a color yellow based on definition of yellow. If it walks like a dog, barks like a dog, it must be a dog. For example, Science just describes things, the more accurate the description, the more truthful it becomes. Ptolemy, Galileo, Copernicus, Kepler, Einstein describe the movements of the earth and the sun in terms of accuracy. It does not provide meaning. All other matters are truth claims wherein you have to trust or put your faith on something or someone.
God created men and women for the purpose of marriage and children. That is in Genesis. When God says: this is how you should do things he means he wants you to do things that way. He shouldn't have to spell out all the different ways you can do things wrongly or less advantageously because you should behave in a way that is the most stable and fruitful for God's people. Homosexual relationships don't bear fruit, not children or positive contributions to society. I used to think otherwise but I can see where it has made society LESS stable and its acceptance led to trans acceptance, which led to a lack of women's safety in spaces and sports.
It's a sin not inappropriate behavior it's sin
So... as long as one is single and chaste, or is in a male & female marriage, then one can enter ministry. To be clear then... if one professes to be 'gay' then one cannot enter ministry?
he suggests that one can have same sex orientation and follow Christ, just so this person does not indulge the same sex attraction.
@@otherworld11 Okay, thanks for clearing that up.
It is interesting isn't it... the word orientation is used in our culture... the Bible is clear as to what is a sin, somehow we call it an orientation.
@@hartleyhare251
(Eng not my 1st language 👏)
The word SIN means to miss Christ in our life. Adam missed Christ by eating of the wrong Tree, he ate of the Law who points to Jesus. Then Jesus came as the LAST Adam to undo whatever went wrong in the first Adam! Rom 5:12-21
I can see how what is labeled sin (e.g murder, adultery, etc) is bad for the person or other people, but I don't see how homosexuality is.
It's not only about behaviour! God tempteth no man! Man is tempted by the lust that is in him! This is not universal! But perculiar to each individual to the extent they have sinned! Inordinate feelings are the result of sin, their own sin or their father's!
God is able to deliver from all sin!
You will have to present scientific evidence that homosexuality is innate as you say, especially as there are so many examples of people who had homosexual behaviour, but no longer exhibit such traits since coming to Christ. The real myth is that homosexuality cannot be overcome. Examples abound, some instances are even available on You Tube. Come to me, all you who are heavily laden, and I will give you rest, Jesus says. Homosexuality is predominantly behavioural, a lifestyle, a choice.
Where did Jesus say that? I haven't seen it in my Bible.
If something is not explicitly condoned then it is forbidden? God never explicitly condones eating green beans, but I am not sure that it would follow that he forbids it. God actually does condemn polygamy, but only excessive polygamy. Deuteronomy 21:15-17 is very clear in his acceptance of polygamy. Instead of giving guidelines to follow for men that have more than 1 wife, why not just condemn it and be done with it?
You are wrong. Those opposed to that sin are not afraid. Why do you give into that thinking? If people were afraid they would not oppose them.
If God loves everybody, but not their Sin, why doesn't He just send their Sin to Hell and let all the people go to Heaven. God does not Love everybody. Jacob have I Loved but Esau I have Hated Romans 9:13
+mrtruserv Except that verse is not to be read in a salvific sense because the context does not allow it. It refers to national/corporate election.
+mrtruserv
God loves everyone and desires all people to be saved.
Matthew 5:43-48
Ezekiel 33
2 Peter 3:9
1 Timothy 2:4
John 3:16
You misunderstand.
In the Scripture you mentioned, loved would mean, "Taken pleasure in the deed or decision of another." Hated means, "Not taken pleasure in one's ways".
In so many words, people throw Scriptures around that they never bother to get an understanding of.
The word of the Living God is spirituality discerned.
You can't interpret it like Moby Dick, or a common library book. Study, pray.
Know the voice of God.
Didn't Esau "hate" God first???? Birthright not worth a bowl of beans.....
Excluded from the Kingdom of God? Hmmm, where did Jesus say the Kingdom was?
If my sins are seen by me to be somehow less than your sins then I am the most despicable because now I am saying God loves me more and you less. We have one word to obey, the rest is religion. Galatians 5:14-15. If my lust causes me to sin what is the difference in my sin of pride or greed or addiction to food, drugs, tobacco or judging the masters' other servants because they are not in my group. Hebrews 12:15. Follow Jesus not religion, reject reverends, rituals, and relics of tradition.
I would say the the sin of homosexuality, adultery and fornication is on a different level. Sexual sins are the only sins separate from others because the are not just sin, but sin against your own flesh. All sin is sin and separates people from God however to claim that stealing a pencil from work is the same as raping a newborn baby are the same is not Biblical teaching.
Guess I'll just have to find a less judgemental group of people.
Promiscuity is a sin. Infidelity is a sin. Gluttony is a sin/ Love is not a sin.
Is homosexuality 'love'?
Homosexual behavior is sinful, any sexual behavior outside of marriage (which is biblically understood as between one man and one woman) is sinful
Inappropriate? First point of Calvinism sir!
When Moses is receiving instructions on how to deal with many issues, 1 being homosexuality who do you think is telling Moses that it is a sin, that is correct JESUS CHRIST who is the Alpha and the Omega, JESUS CHRIST was the "I AM", and he will always be the "I AM". Homosexuality is a horrendous sin, people are given over to confusion (also seems to have link with nature worship - new age, but in the old testament). Sexual immorality encompasses pornography, living with your boyfriend (pre marital sex), sex outside of marriage. I have had big struggles with pornography (it is who I was, not who I am now), So I was committing sexual immorality.
Accept JESUS CHRIST as GOD the son of the FATHER (who sits at his right hand now), and that only by his works on the cross and his blood which washes over you that you are saved. then you are baptized at that moment (water is not need by GOD) you receive the HOLY SPIRIT and you are forgiven of your sins. You are then no longer chained to sin, you may get back into your many different sin's you struggled with prior, but you are choosing to sin and to look for it (The HOLY SPIRIT will help you throughout your life to look more like JESUS CHRIST, THE HEAD OF THE CHURCH). It is not because of our choosing, but due to JESUS CHRIST, so no one can brag or boast, but only JESUS CHRIST who is worthy to be praised.
This guy has more historical , cultural, theological, biblical and linguistic knowledge (read: credibility) in his little finger than his critics likely lack in their entire body. He is one of the most learned scholars on the face of this planet, and the distinctions he makes are not just off the cuff or casual remarks.
Treating homosexuals as "lepers" is wrong, but treating all sins the same is neither biblical, sane, or helpful. And the distinction should be made between preference/attraction and lifestyle.
We are not put out of the church for lusting in our hearts, but we absolutely should be for adultery. Both are called to repentance.
LMOST right, but not quite, theres no bible verse that says same sex love is a sin.....or same sex romantic love. If it was a sin we would have been told.
This video is about scripture and homosexuality. My belief that homosexuality is wrong stems from scripture, which I believe is the word of God. I don't expect people who don't believe the bible is the word of God to agree with me. And I'm not sure how "scientific, medical, psychiatric or sociological proof" could exist for something being 'evil' anyway. How would you go about that?
St Paul mentions homosexuality. Why do you say it's not in the Bible?
As far as I understand it, I think he's talking about the word "homosexuality" not being mentioned. However, it is a topic that the Bible does discuss, and Witherington does comment on that.
So it is not wrong to be gay, but it is wrong to express affection towards someone of the same sex, or is it just affection in the form of sex? Seems like it is just the latter. Also polygamy is all over the OT and is readily accepted by God. David is even a man “after God’s own heart”, and he was a polygamist, so I am not so sure that his case for monogamy is so clear cut.
God never accepted polygamy. Read Duet 28 The kings did that out of rebellion to God. That’s why many of the monarchs had so much division and family issues.
In the NT, it states one man should only have one wife.
there is an island full of loving caring homosexuals and another island full of hateful uncaring heterosexuals. what island would you choose to plan a hope and a future?
Those seem like false alternatives.
Given that neither situation exists, your hypothesis doesn’t have validity
That is a terrible analogy to support your viewpoint. After just a few short generations, the only island left would be the one full of hateful uncaring heterosexuals.
It was at this moment we realized Hey! dude! was a troll.
@@thecomingstorm9327 save your posturing when youre standing before God
While I disagree with your convictions regarding homosexuality, I appreciate your heart and warmth in your approach to love as He first Loved us. UMC is having a discussion, more so then other denominations. This adds to that. It is an opinion, and it is your truth. In short: I believe through my own studies through hermeneutics and the original language, that homosexuality was paced in Scripture through translators own prejudices etc. That Paul coined the phrase and really spoke primarily about idol worship, began worship, especially referring to sex gods and goddesses often recorded in history and by Scripture. As a Christian, I believe there is a standard which God desires of us to live by or a place of being. I believe Methodist call this Christian Perfection. We are Christians. Children of God. Everything else is secondary. That is our true identity. If we say, GLBTQ or not, ourselves anything else and profess to be His, are we truly living for Christ and dying to sin?! I know many believe it is a oxymoron, but I am a Child of God, saved through and by Grace who happens to be gay. Until God convicts me otherwise, which I must obey, I am sticking to what God has made clear to me through His Word, Spirit and my own experience during my walk with God. May peace be with you and may we all live a life that points to Him. For He is honored, given Glory and forever praised. Amen.
My brother, your conviction is already writers of scriptures wrote from a prejudice. If the primary way the Lord speaks to us is through scripture. then how can God speak to you regarding sin? I know, personally, I cant hear people speak or read from people who I know are already starting from a slant. How do you measure the truth of God? Is it ok for me to commit adultery because I think the authors were henpecked? There is the Spirit of the word that is being ignored.
Eric Lewis God convicts my heart to this very day of how I may have walked astray or followed that which is by the flesh and not the Spirit. He does so through the gift He gave us, which is to comfort and convict, The Holy Spirit. Measure? Can we even do so? Once we even begin to believe we understand, God is quick to remind us we don't. The Word says for His ways are mysterious and no man can pathom. For me, I can listen to those who don't necessarily believe what I do because I have my conviction, The Spirit and my God. I couldn't always listen or hold a convex with those sitting at the opposite side of the table, for my heart was angry and hardened by hurt and abandonment from those brothers and sisters I once we're in fellowship with. But God is good and brought me to a place of peace only He can give, a place where I can pull the chair out for my brother and sister out of love, forgiveness and understanding. So, I thank you for raising some great questions. Asking questions helps strengthen our own testimony and beliefs. Godspeed my brother!
You do realize that you are adding and taking away from scripture, right? What does scripture say about that? Do you want to be cursed?? Once again, if SCRIPTURE is not your standard, than ANYTHING and EVERYTHING is game for being truth. How do you not see that? But, once again, you start off your view with a slant.
Eric Lewis How am I adding to Scripture? You can't. What is written is written. The Word says we can't add or subtract from it, for we would be preaching another Gospel then the one we've been told. God's Word is my standard. It is alive and speaks to me. I'm confused, as all I said was that I once was angry and hardened by the treatment of others within God's Church. But by God's Grace and Love, He brought me to a place where I can forgive those who wronged me. That's the peace only God can give. And that because of the confidences I do have in His Word, I can stand in my conviction, when I have a conversation with those whom I don't see eye to eye scripturally. By no means would I be silent if it was something against the Digity of God, Doctrinal beliefs or things which we know are certain, like Jesus and His Resurrection. But when it comes to translating, we in love for God and one another, can have a respectful and intelligent conversation about it without beating our chests in pride and aggorance. And through the Holy Spirit, we may draw nearer to God and even challenge our own belief. I apologize, as I am confused to why you assert the things you do. But, may peace and God be with you.
So, enlighten me: Every single time homosexuality is denounce in scripture, it has been modified by original writers and then by all of the translators on both sides of the testaments? Although a "term" that Paul coined, although it confirms old Testament scripture, he is referring to "idols"? How does Romans 1:24-27 fit in with your "hermeneutics"? Did the vessels God used to pen scripture study hermeneutics when they wrote as well? How does God want us to understand His word? You say " I am sticking to what God has made clear to me through His Word, Spirit and my own experience", however, you discount the word because the measure is clearly your experience. You discount the word because you stand on the prejudice of the writers. Instead of interpreting scripture via scripture, you interpret scripture via your own prejudice and experience. I had to love the truth of God more than my love of my friends (who were more to me than family)in the lifestyle. I have to love the truth of God more than I want to be rich, or popular, more than I want to sin and get away with it, more than I want to dislike something or someones.....
It's straight forward, ''Be Fruitful and multiply.'' God made man to be with woman, period. Even science proves this as a fact.
True, the Levite sought revenge, but there was no stricter on him having given his slave girl over to be raped to death. Moreover, it was not homosexual men who were involved, but just ordinary citizens of Sodom and of the Tribe of Ephraim. Rape of women, except under certain very specific circumstances, was not only sanctioned, but sometimes commanded, just as the mass abortion and murder of women was commanded. One really does wonder why none of us religious types never question that.
So you are saying you will ordain a homosexual???
Jesus would have been cancelled today.
You mean Jesus as Gód or do you mean "cancel a wrong lifestyle" 🤔
@@eekay5710 : Given what he said and taught.
@@gerryquinn5578 Thank you, but what makes you believe thís 🤔
@@eekay5710 : Because this is the woke age of cancel culture.
"I will be an equal opportunity critiquer"
This is where almost all Christians need to stop and remember that they are meant to concern themselves with only themselves. The only action that we are commanded to take regarding others is to love them and to live as the best example both of The Law and Christ's agape love that we can humanly be.
Your 1st minute was correct. Everything after that are stories. Theres alot more about heterosexual behavior, maybe focus on that
One of the problems is that we now know quite clearly that homosexuality is something that people are born with and that they cannot change. This raises moral questions in another direction. Is God then responsible for homosexuality, and for the empty, lonely nearly meaingless life? These are questions raised to us many times. It has to be responded to in something other than slippery sophisms.
A list o forbidden behavior is not really going to make sense is a spiritual understanding. To say Jesus spoke against and protested legalistic understanding of God's '"Law" and then to say these things are spoken of is rather worthy of ridicule. Then, to point to Paul seeking to bring understanding to immature Christian "flock" who needed simple explanations will not really get to the heart of the matter neither. So, we find ourselves in a place where we put Paul and his writing on the pedestal of "Holy Spirit" and divinely inspired since we have to make that move in order to call it God's will. God has not concern or understanding of things. God is not a cognitive being with a human mindset. God is total and eternal and can neither condemn or bless. WE will find harmony in the "way things are" and be part of a natural and supernatural being, or we will fall out of favor with the order we find in the chaos. God does not care about sexuality as much as God might "intend" for us to be accepting and forgiving of each other. Sexual orientation will not be a factor in those matters. I am a straight Christian with unorthodox beliefs and rather tired of the anthropomorphized God we create in our own image to have some personal relationship with out of the deepest fear of realizing the void of all being is the source from which we come. Accepting the "God is not a thing or person" and just IS will drive most to make God something they can live with and then seek to behave so they do not go to hell. Eternal is without cause or end and is beyond our material. That is a scary God most Theist and Christians continue to run from, while the one they called Christ accepted it in life, and in death, and in life beyond death.
Paul also says that women should have head covering ( long hair) and men should not cover their heads. It is further stated why. Women should be modest apparently showing your neck or shoulders was immodest to Paul. Men needed short hair to show that they were not feminine. Paul also answered the seeming problem if women interrupting services by talkind by banning them from speaking, something that has come down in some Christianity today keeping women from serving in certain capacities in the church. We know why this is too because the reason is given that Eve was tempted by the devil before making Adam follow. Women just are too easily deveived.
So what happened to the dress codes the church used to enforce? What happened to allow women to teach Sunday School? Why are these outdated while homosexual behavior is still on the list. In a related topic why is slavery forbidden while in the bible it is clearly allowed to the point where the early bishops owned slaves? Just as we know that the bible was wrong in calling the disease we know as epilepsy, demonic possession, we should not look at homosexuality as immoral behavior. At least think about it.
Think about this. What if all your electrical outlets all had "male" connectors and all your devices had "male" connectors? How well would that work out? Males and females exist to reproduce. If there were only males or only females, how long would humans exist? It's not the same thing as haircuts.
It's not that sinners walk in and out of the doors of the churches and sit in the pews or even that ordained ministers in the churches are sinners, it is that UMC has willingly ordained ministers knowing their improprieties and even celebrating them. UMC pays salaries to Lesbian preachers and there is no discipline, none whatsoever. No repentance, no remorse, no shame no discipline, and what about the Bible? ... "Oh that old judgmental thing". UMC is going through hell right now with their membership, it is a hell of their own making. Repent, or you will go the way of the Episcopalians. If you don't repent you will burn up your UMC treasury on lawyers fees suing each other while your membership continues its rapid decline.
It may be so that we are called to repent and "not stay as we are", but is it not also true that we are always a "work in construction" on this side of heaven?
If noncelibate homosexuals cannot be ordained to fulltime service in the church, so should the proud, the self-centered, the habitual liar, the pornography addict, etc. It is "equal opportunity", is it not?
@Ben you are correct they should not be ordained. Most ordination you take a oath to continue towards perfection. Not to bask and reveal in your sin. If homosexuality is a sin and I think it is from scripture. How can person say I love Christ, and want to serve him but continue that sin without remorse? If there is no remorse there is no repentance for your sin. If there is no repentance then there is no justification/salvation. What I have just stated really pertains to any sin we willfully commit and have no remorse for it. Repentance without remorse is not repentance at all
The wheels of truth flew off the moment you said we need to “repent of our sins”.
Homosexuality is a sin which must be repented of.
The Bible also says that it's "inappropriate" for you to wear that cotton-polyester-blend shirt you're wearing.
Many Christians are “biblicist”. They interpret the Bible literally without studying the context, literary genre, etc. 💁
The issue is not with people's inclination to sin. The issue is with those who say their homosexual practices are NOT sin. You wouldn't ordain practicing pedophiliacs, even if they pronounce themselves married to the children.
I notice my comments was dropped. What a shame. Must have step on someone's ego.
unfortunate i would have liked to have read it
@Frank Serpico: Dr. Ben Witherington is not trying to persuade one to believe what the Bible says. He is just stating what the Bible says about homosexuality. So if you do not believe that the Bible is God's word, then of course you won't care what it says. Dr. Ben is not proselytizing here. He is merely speaking about Biblical content.
Hardly anyone observes the ancient Jewish Law any longer, not even most Jews. Even the Orthodox Jews have heavily edited what they currently observe and don't observe. The fact is that this ancient so-called 'Law of Moses' cannot form the basis for the functioning of any contemporary society. Also, attempts to discern "God's will" or how God feels about a particular topic or group of people by studying the ancient Jewish law displays a fundamental misunderstanding about that law and how it functioned in ancient Israel. The Jewish law as given in the Torah (first five books of the Bible) was not given as a universal moral law and was never intended for people other than the Jews themselves. There is absolutely no evidence inside the Old or New Testaments that the Law of Moses was meant to be applied to any people outside of Israel or that it is intended for any contemporary society. Certainly, the modern state of Israel makes only token efforts to observe the old law, mostly due to the power of the orthodox in Israel. Rather than taking a few passages out of context, like those pertaining to homosexuality, please read the whole law. It is insane to think it can be applied in its entirety to modern societies. And if you think you can conclude from reading the few references in the Bible that God condemns people who persist in homosexual behavior, than at least be humble and admit that it is your own interpretation, not something to be proclaimed from the pulpit or to govern who is welcome to stay in your church. If you have a prejudice against homosexuals, please own up to it and make it your own and don't drag God into your justifications.
Exactly! Let's not put words into God's mouth
Deut. @ When two men are fighting and the wife of one of them intervenes to drag her husband clear of his opponent, if she puts out her hand and catches hold of the man by his privates, you must cut off her hand and show her no mercy.
If in spite of this you still do not listen to me but continue to be hostile toward me, then in my anger I will be hostile toward you, and I myself will punish you for your sins seven times over. You will eat the flesh of your sons and the flesh of your daughters."(Leviticus @-30)
"I permit no woman to teach or have authority over men; she is to keep silent." Timothy @
Genesis 19:8“ Look, I have two daughters, virgins both of them. Let me bring them out to you and you could do what you like with them. But do nothing to these men because they have come under the shelter of my roof.”
She lusted after her lovers, whose genitals were like those of donkeys and whose emission was like that of horses. Ezekiel @ NIV
Do not wear clothing woven of two kinds of material. Leviticus @
Ye shall not round the corners of your heads. Leviticus @
When a woman has a discharge, if her discharge in her body is blood, she shall continue in her menstrual impurity for seven days; and whoever touches her shall be unclean until evening. Everything also on which she lies during her menstrual impurity shall be unclean, and everything on which she sits shall be unclean. Leviticus 15: 19-20
Now therefore, kill every male among the little ones, and kill every woman who has known man intimately. But all the girls who have not known man intimately, spare for yourselves. Numbers @-18
You may purchase male or female slaves from among the foreigners who live among you. You may also purchase the children of such resident foreigners, including those who have been born in your land. You may treat them as your property, passing them on to your children as a permanent inheritance. You may treat your slaves like this, but the people of Israel, your relatives, must never be treated this way. Leviticus @-46 NLT
Slaves, obey your earthly masters with deep respect and fear. Serve them sincerely as you would serve Christ. Ephesians 6:5 NLT
🔥IT'S PERFECTLY CLEAR‼️ The word used is "Porneia" referring to the Levitical Laws....
INAPPROPRIATE⁉️ He calls it an ABOMINATION‼️🔥
What is an 'abomination' for Israel in ancient times was never intended as a judgement on non-Jews. The writer of Leviticus would never have considered homosexuality as an abomination for Greeks or Babylonians. The Levitical law was not intended as a universal law or code. Never. Not one verse in the Old or New Testaments supports any such universal application of the Levitical Laws.
@@markjohnson543 Really⁉️ So, you think absolutely NO Divine Laws apply to any other peoples or nations besides Israel⁉️ That God has ZERO standards, ZERO expectations for any other people or nation apart from Israel⁉️ That everyone else has a complete & total PASS & is not held to ANY moral standards⁉️.... Surely, you can't be that naive & foolish‼️🤔
@@ozwall2670 I am not second-guessing God. Just read what the Bible has to say about whether the Levitical Law was meant for the Gentile nations. As discussed in the Old Testament, the Levitical Law was considered a way to SEPARATE Israel from other nations, to mark them as unique. None of it was binding on the Gentiles. No, God did not legislate for Greeks, Egyptians or Babylonians. They had their own customs and laws, some wise and some not so wise. This is not to say that God had no expectations (In the flood Story, God destroyed the wicked on the earth due to unrighteousness and this was before the Levitical Law was given, so there was a righteousness that should have been obvious to humans all over the earth, not due to a written law...more of a natural law) When Jesus came, he lived in a multi-cultural environment, where the question of the essence of the Jewish Law and how it might apply to the Gentiles arose. What was his answer to the essence of the Law when questioned about it? He did not give long lists of do's and don'ts. He summed it up as Loving God with all your mind and heart and love your neighbor as yourself. This is the rule of love, not of the Levitical Law, which is now obsolete even in modern Israel. And it calls upon us to love homosexual people AS OURSELVES. Not as someone apart. How can such love lead us to condemn other people or push them out of our communions? This is the standard you are asking for. It is plainly and courageously given by Christ. Can we live up to it?
@@markjohnson543 Yes, Jesus summed up the _entire law_ just as you mentioned. The New Testament also clearly explains that the law was given to reveal the depths of depravity for _all_ of mankind, not just the sinfulness of Israel. _Not_ as means of attaining a righteousness acceptable to God, but to reveal the infinite chasm that separates sinful humanity from the Holy God, causing us to _confess_ & _repent_ & cast ourselves upon His mercy & grace, and receive an acceptable righteousness _by faith_ from another source outside of ourselves....
_By no means_ am I advocating hatred toward those who suffer from same-sex attraction, _nor any other person_ who's in bondage to a particular besetting sin!! In fact, the _most loving_ thing is to speak Truth to all men, in a spirit of gentleness & compassion, knowing that we ourselves have received the undeserved mercy & grace of God when we instead deserved the eternal punishment of His wrath. But, no one can receive such great gifts without coming to a knowledge & understanding of their offenses against a Holy God & His eternal law and turning from their sin & their confidence & dependence from themselves to all that God has accomplished for us through Christ....
_At the same time_ , the New Testament also clearly tells us not to associate with anyone who _unrepentantly_ continues in their sin with a hardened heart.... There are _two basic principles_ we should operate by when dealing both with other people & ourselves, _regardless_ of the specific sin(s) involved, and it's quite simple really:
1) *Be gentle & compassionate with those who struggle but sincerely desire to be free from sin* .
2) *Be firm & tough in speaking Truth with those who remain hard-hearted & unrepentant* .
To do _anything else_ would be unloving & apathetic for their eternal souls... (Anything else would be uncivilized 😊)....
QUESTION: Are you just as blindly welcoming with open arms other individuals who unrepentantly continue in their sin, boasting & glorying in their depravity?? Say, rapists?? Child-molesters?? Thieves?? Liars?? Haters of God?? Violent oppressors of the weak & vulnerable??
QUESTION: Are you just as blindly nonchalant & dismissive of your own repetitive sin??
QUESTION: Are you just as blindly nonchalant & dismissive of your own repetitive sin??
What a strange question. I wish you all the best and hope you find your way to true happiness and universal love. Perhaps you already have it. Peace and smiles.
An increasing number of Christian churches have accepted gay rights, and this trend shows no sign of reversing itself.
Wery good. However…. Tolerating homosexual “inclinations “ in the clergy is deadly. Just look at the Roman Catholic Church and the horror that has resulted from its “tolerance “!! You need to stand up as as a MAN and leader in your church. Do not tolerate grievous sin in the Ministry!
The bibles says nothing about kitchen. Thats a place i go when hungry
He seems like a reasonable guy and wants to thread a very narrow gap theologically. However, he is patently and completely wrong to suggest that "medical science" has nothing to say about the genetic basis for same-sex attractions. He may want to believe that, but he's wrong. Period.
Unfortunately, brother Witherington, your point of reference (by which you are struggling) is the law by which no one is saved. There is no such thing as "good behavior." "No one is good, no, not even one." (Romans 3). God alone is good. Thus we are saved by grace alone , justified through the faith of the Son of God alone, and not by any of our so-called "bahaviors." "All of us have become like one who is unclean, and all our righteous acts are like filthy rags." (Isaiah 61). Free will is a dead end street. By faith we have died. "It is no longer we who live but Christ who lives in us." (Galatians 2:20) He is our life. Literally! Dead men can't do anything, and they can't wear plaid. (Nor should they.)