With very few exceptions, I watch a video before commenting on it. I watched this one. I play a violin and sing. (Not at the same time.) After I had gone once a week for most of a couple of years (except during COVID-19 shutdown) to help with a sing-along at an assisted living facility (nursing home) in the next town north of us, two clergy from our town began taking turns providing sermonettes to go along with the singing. They both lived in our town so I rode with each of them to the facility several times. After hearing them both preach and after talking with each of them privately several times, I thought I had earned the right to ask one of them a question. His wife was with him in the car when I asked it: “Can you tell me what Jesus said to do when we hear he has returned?” Both the clergyman and his wife said we should rejoice when he returns. So I reminded them that my question was what Jesus said we should do when we hear he has returned. Neither the clergyman nor his wife could think of anything Jesus said to do when we hear he has returned. OK. So now I’m asking you. Anyone who reads this, please take your time and look it up if you don’t know offhand. Then please give me the answer you find and whether you had to look it up.
Not a Christian, but I actually kind of appreciated the Dispensationalism perspective for taking the Hebrew Bible more literally. I don't agree that the pre-trib rapture is in the Bible, but that's a similar kind of thing to the partial preterism of N. T. Wright. Both Dispensationalism and partial preterism will say that 1 Thess. 4 is talking about a different "coming" to Matthew 24:30. They can also then sometimes make a division in the Olivet Discourse where part of it is about one kind of "coming", and then it switches to speaking about a different "coming". So I would view this kind of inconsistency as a problem for both Dispensationalism and partial preterism.
@@Henry-yh6vv I have a question Henry, you say you’re not a Christian yet you study this stuff more than 99.9% of the professing church!! What might your interest in this subject be I’m really curious to know?
@@Henry-yh6vv Anyway dear friend. I can’t help you with 1 Thes 4. As a new Preterist myself that’s still a real problem passage for me to fully understand too but I do know that if we keep seeking, the Spirit WILL reveal these difficulties to us. That’s my testimony. Just keep going and things will be revealed to each one of us ‘at the appointed time’ on our individual journey.
@@Henry-yh6vv You are definitely correct though how Jesus switches thought mid flow. The best example I can think of is Nicodemus being ‘born again’ along with the woman at the well story and the dual meaning of ‘water’. We must always ask, is the subject we are reading to be interpreted physically or spiritually.
I appreciate the perspective, I am a Christian not because there is a(could be) a reward, pie in the sky. Rather the ways of Jesus are just the best way to live life, the reasons for the present unhappiness in the world is a lack of connection with the person of Jesus. I appreciate the pointing out the failure of hope, there is another driving factor and this is Love and the resurrection that it brings.
You do know King James had a English version written and it was done by Jews and Greeks neither were Christians. Never in all his days on earth did any of the disciples call him Jesus. What's weird Jesus in Latin is pronounced "Hey Zeus". Did the Greeks get in a jab at King James?
@@JohnSmith-kr6ek Its called transliteration. It happens with all words passed from one dialect to another. Transliteration does not change the *meaning* of the name. Jesus still means "Yah's salvation"
@jeremyprovince4942...I don't know who could agree with your statement about Jesus.His central doctrine was horrible.He told men that he met to desert their wives children and animals and follow him.this cruel command would have left the deserted family heart broken and in a desperate struggle for survival in the harsh desert without the main provider who suddenly left.His reason for this he said was because the world would end during the lifetime of the apostles.He was cruel to demand that from uneducated desert tribesmen and he was wrong because his prophecy failed.Furthermore,Jesus did not mention anything that was not known at that time.He did not know the true age of the earth.he did not know the Americas and South pacific countries existed.He did not know that several other humanoid species that were our relatives but became extinct some 40,000 years ago. He did not tell the men to stop forcing their wives to sleep outside in a shed with the goats during their menstrual cycle. he did not even know enough about medicine to give us a talk on germ theory that would have prevented millions of people from dying from preventable diseases. there were more than 300 self proclaimed messiahs who were crucified by the Romans in that era.there is no reason to suggest that Jesus knew any more or was a better person than any of the others.it is high time we humans grow up and out of this bronze age nonsense.
@@clarkelaidlaw1678 Geez, I hope you don’t think this is how everyone cherry picks twisted interpretations. - jesus gave quite clear and simple teachings on how to live Life better, and ( briefest and clearest) most simply summarized all commandments as “ Love thy neighbor as thyself” - how can we “ find everyone” who translates this in the odd way you present? The related greatest commandment is to love the lord thy God, who is the Word ( Teachings of God) that point the Way, shine the Light, to live a more virtuous Life - which is exactly what Jeremy simply is pointing out. Whether you agree with any religion or not, it’s hard to understand why you see this so negatively. (You are accurate, though: Jesus neglected to tell us “not to run with scissors”)
@@clarkelaidlaw1678 Brother, i can only encourage you to take your time to read and take your time to discover the fundamental messages of Scripture, both the OT and how the NT helps us (or helps me at least) to see the big picture and the complete story. For a large part of my life, i read individual verses out of context. In recent years, i have had to do a lot of unlearning and relearning. That's ok brother, it's part and parcel of life. King Solomon went through that phase too and gave us Ecclesiastes. That book is another good reading. Try it.
What a wonderfully informative exposition from Prof. Wright. I enjoyed this immensely. I have always believed that much of the difficulty surrounding religion and faith stemmed from problems of language and translation as well as culture.
Having come out of that philosophy in the 70s, gone to seminary and taught the Bible for 35 years I have come to that dispensationalism is one of the biggest heresies in the church and it’s leading many people astray when they think about eschatology.
Tim LaHaye Left Behind books and The Late Great Planet Earth by Hal Lindsay did a number on a lot of people. Those people should Google how the rapture theory got started.
@@justnoted2995 The word "second" before 'coming' was brought in by translators. Christ alreády came and is ríght inside of us, waiting for the world to awaken and become aware of His indwelling presence. Col 1:26,27 'the mystery which has been hidden from ages and from generations, but now has been revealed to His saints. To them God willed to make known what are the riches of the glory of this mystery among the Gentiles: which is Christ in (ín!) you, the hope of glory! We are the clouds, His holy temple, His sanctuary, His dwelling place .. and from out thís holy temple He will soon manifest His final appearances as 1Thes 4 have it! Jesus has made us óne with Himself at the cross! It's only the carnal mind that still pictures distance and separation. John 14:20 + 17:22,23
A gem tgat is what you are, it is so difficult to found sound bible teachers you are one of the rare ones and i feel blessed ..Thank you beyond words..And may God bless for your service abundantly in the name of Jesus Christ
Love listening to NT Wright! Totally agree with him about the problem of premillennial dispensational teaching in the west. I taught it for years until I realized this doctrine just did not add up. But I have also realized that there were many “comings” of Christ. FIRST he came we can all agree in a manger (Luke 2:10-12). But everyone then tends to jump to a physical second coming forgetting the actual SECOND coming via the Spirit (St. John 14:3, 16-18). Then there was a THIRD coming promised by Christ and was fulfilled when he came in judgement as prophecies in Matthew 24:30.
1 Thessalonians 4:16 “For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first 1 Thessalonians 4:17 “Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.”
@@robertbruce1552 Yes so would I especially about the meeting in the air bit. This as opposed to every eye will see him. Been inside clouds you cannot see out of them, let alone see into them.
@@daveharris9120 1 Thessalonians 4:16 “For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:” The second coming (rapture) will be a noisy affair. Revelation 1:7 “Behold, he cometh with clouds; and every eye shall see him, and they also which pierced him: and all kindreds of the earth shall wail because of him. Even so, Amen.”
The comments are generally revealing.I find it difficult, however, to believe that any commentators have actually listened carefully to his comments and observations?
Interesting point of view. I am one of those who believe in the separate rapture and end coming of Jesus, and I believe this for number of reasons: 1) Jesus Himself told His followers that He'd return to take them to be where He is. This is in with a picture very familiar to Jews, that is, a wedding.(In old Jewish culture, the bridegroom after engagement would leave the bride with her parents, and proceed to go home to build a home for them in his father's insula, their family complex or compound. Upon completion, he would return for his bride with all his friends, family, and invited guests making as much noise and fanfare as possible, so as to let everyone know that he was returning for his bride and that there would be a wedding.) We see this marriage language in multiple places in the Old and New Testaments. 2) the joyful mood of this return for His followers starkly contrasts His appearance at the end, coming on a horse drenched in blood with the sword of His word coming from His mouth to judge the nations. (See Revelstions 19:11-16) 3) The angels at His ascension said, He'd return in this way. 4) if so many of the church fathers (who were Jewish) testified of this (and countless unnamed believers staked their lives on it), who are we to doubt that, that is God's intention? 5) whether the rapture happens or not does not change the fact that Jesus will return as He promised to rule the nations with a rod of iron, to set this right and make all things new. Lastly, many say this will be the end of Judaism and God's plan with the Jews. In answer to this, I'd point to the fact that Paul spent whole chapters of the letter to the Romans speaking on how God will not cast off His people. What's more, in the Old Testament this is also mentioned, especially by Davidin the Psalms, and the prophets. Ultimately, Jesus is coming back. Whether now, later, once or twice, He will come back. We just need to be patient and keep on doing His work of sharing the good news and helping people.
I love your reply. I have an incurable cancer, so have spent more time than I expected to, pondering what happens next and the value of a life cut short with all the prophetic words spoken over my life, all the sense of what God had called me to coming to nothing in this age. Old people have to live in the immediate shadow of their mortality, but rarely share how they feel about this. As a relatively young person, who has been through the refiner's fire more than I believed possible, very little of what I have read in the chat, makes sense. There are so many angles and hints in God's word that I suspect it is just slightly beyond our ability to comprehend. For me, I am constantly challenged by the idea throughout the old testament that we sleep in death. An idea that was echoed by Paul. I spend a lot of time sort of sleeping, but I would better describe it as abiding. It is a state of being with Christ. I wonder if this is more a picture of what will happen to us between death and resurrection.
I listen to NT Wright a lot, and every time I listen to him, I have to listen to him a lot. But if it's like a curtain then why did the disciples look up as Jesus was leaving.
Jesus is coming in the clouds, every eye will see Him, if He appeared on a street corner, or parking lot, how could every see Him, will everyone be given x-ray vision to see through buildings and structures?
Spend your time doing good by helping the less fortunate or praying or asking God for mercy. Nobody knows the time of the next coming of Jesus except God the Father.
@@Bijbelstudies With the Resurrection, he showed he was not a body but spirit. That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit
@@robertdouglas8895 Actually He was both. That was the meaning of the incarnation. See 1 Peter 3:18 For Christ also hath once suffered for sins, the just for the unjust, that he might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh, but quickened by the Spirit.
@@Bijbelstudies Since we are spirit, not flesh, we are created in the likeness of God. You can pretend you are separate from God if you want, but I don't.
@@Bijbelstudies Not just with us. In us. As us. One. 0 Neither pray I for these alone, but for them also which shall believe on me through their word; 21 That they all may be one; as thou, Father, art in me, and I in thee, that they also may be one in us: that the world may believe that thou hast sent me. 22 And the glory which thou gavest me I have given them; that they may be one, even as we are one: 23 I in them, and thou in me, that they may be made perfect in one; and that the world may know that thou hast sent me, and hast loved them, as thou hast loved me.
He said not all of you will die before seeing my coming refering to John's vision of revelation. He also said in the time of the end there would be ways rumours of wars famines and earthquakes in various places. I sent think he implied it was soon but the disciples did
No. Paul states in 2 Thessalonians 2 that the time of Christ’s coming will not take place until the “man of sin” is revealed in prophetic history first. The same entity mentioned in Daniel 7 and Revelation 12 as persecuting the saints for 1260 days or “a time, times, and half a time.” According to Daniel 7, the Son of Man will judge that entity at the end of that time, and then return to Earth to gather His faithful to Him (Rev. 1:7 says “and every eye shall see Him”)
Wow, the moment when the Lord "appears" is more like a sudden opening of our eyes, and even a shift or awakening in our ability to perceive a fuller, grander reality that transcends that which we are accustomed to seeing and acknowledging; it's like a heightened awareness! No wonder Paul admonishes us to be sober, be vigilant, awake from sleep, and be ready, AND that our transformation will take place in the blink of an eye! But so many of us are in Star Trek mode, waiting to be beamed up to another part of space, which is laughable. The truth is that we're awaiting the appearance, the revelation of Jesus Christ, right here on Planet Earth!
Laughable? Interesting. Believing in Jesus coming back is like believing God rose him from the dead. Talk about science fiction, dead people stay dead. Laughable?
My friend if you have no salvation when he comes there’s no second chances, you can’t honestly think your going to be about life unregenerate and at enmity toward God and then Jesus will rock up with the trumpets blasting and you get in a bus to Jerusalem and get it sorted ?? Today is the day of salvation my friend today !! If you are not sorted before you hear that trumpet then you will never be in Gods presence ever, you will be separated from him though. Nt wright is classed by most evangelicals as someone to NOT listen too and is lost on many matters.
The only clue Jesus really gave us was Matt 24:14 - that the gospel will be preached to all nations and then the end will come. We need to get the gospel to all nations.
Our Father, who art in heaven, hallowed be thy Name, thy kingdom come, thy will be done, on earth as it is in heaven. Give us this day our daily bread. And forgive us our trespasses, as we forgive those who trespass against us. And lead us not into temptation, but deliver us from evil. For thine is the kingdom, and the power, and the glory, for ever and ever. Amen.
Its been a very ill minute since I've heard this voice. Ever surprised by Joy, but seldom off the fruit of our loom. Tough time to be be the Clive of ours. Especially after the TKs went home. Stay Mere, brother. I mean that.
PPS, maybe you could convince the head of your order to buy Snowmass? Start a Taize without all that tricky French stuff. In America. In the mid 2020s. In the name of the King. Lord knows he's got the resources. #savesnowmass. "Then in the name of the King go find some old man with less lore and More Wisdom that still keeps some in his house!" -G-Unit, Houses of Healing, Return of the King. Big boy stuff. 😉 Peace, Eothain.
3:57 My understanding is that the sun moon and stars symbolizes old Israel that is about to be replaced with the new Israel. *Genesis 37:9* _"Then Joseph had another dream and told it to his brothers. “Look,” he said, “I had another dream, and this time the sun and moon and eleven stars were bowing down to me.” He told his father and brothers, but his father rebuked him and said, “What is this dream that you have had? Will your mother and brothers and I actually come and bow down to the ground before you?"_
He referred to Isaiah 13 and the fall of Babylon. A quick reading of that passage shows that Isaiah 13 is still yet future. I see your reasoning for saying the sun moon and stars symbolise Israel, but it’s hard to see that in Isaiah 13 or other passages. In my mind it’s better to take it literally with the sun moon and stars symbolising the sun moon and stars.
More likely the sun, moon and 11 stars symbolized his father, mother and 11 siblings (11 is hardly a coincidence), indicating Joseph was more important than any of them. That is why his brothers became jealous. His father clearly understood what he was implying. I dont think there's any need to go beyond that.
An erudite and eminent biblical scholar, N.T. Wright is worth considering (reading and listening to). Among the different / divergent theological views concerning the Return of Jesus Christ, "Dispensational theology" has dominated U.S. evangelicalism of the last 100+ years. Taking Revelation (the Apocalypse) as a case study, historically the 'book' has been read both allegorically and literally. Noted biblical scholar and church historian, Gerald Bray, shows simply how divergent views arose, especially the "background of fear...permeated the persecuted church of the second and third centuries." (Biblical Interpretation, pp. 449ff.) In context, the rise of "dispensational" (or "millenarianism" view, from Latin for '1000') was introduced to the U.S. through the Anglo-Irish Bible teacher, J. N. Darby (1800-1882). (A former colleague, Dr.Peter Lee, PhD, PhD wrote his noted UK dissertation on J. N. Darby.) Ironically, a similar "background of fear" lives in our time. A statement from Jesus is worthy of consideration: "I tell you, he (God) will give justice to them speedily. Nevertheless, when the Son of Man comes, will he find faith on earth?" (Luke 18:8, ESV)
Actually there is no one called a Bible scholar. Just pretenders to Bible knowledge. None of Jesus apostles had any human issued qualification. Only Paul had what can be called a human issued qualification. In fact, God hides the truth from these 'qualified charlatans' (Matthew 11:25).
@@tongakhan230 What are you talking about? Matthew 11:25 - At that time Jesus said, “I praise you, Father, Lord of heaven and earth, because you have hidden these things from the wise and learned, and revealed them to little children. You are taking the verse out of context, egregiously. How are you any better than the biblical scholars? No, I think YOU are the pretender.
@@rallegra An enlightening and wonderful book is, "Climbing Parnassus: A New Apologia for Greek and Latin" (Wilmington, Delaware: ISI Books, 2002) by Tracy Lee Simmons. This author secured a masters in classics from Oxford University.
True, the book of Revelation is filled metaphor and symbolism, but the Bible interprets itself. One can always look to other passages of scripture to fill in details or to make the meaning clear. The key to understanding Bible prophecy is knowing the identity of the end time nations discussed in these prophecies. With that understanding, Daniel, Revelation, the prophets along with Christ’s Olivet prophecies can be well understood.
Jesus Never Left! He left His Spirit Here With us..each of us..within us. If we are listening we are Obeying His commandments and Forgiving EveryOne..just as He Did the First time!
When Jesus comes...believe me....we'll know ( respectively)...and Christ walks with me, and is within me..daily, ( I can't see ??) through in Faith, I believe, whether on my right and left sides, or leading me, witin this difficult thing called " Life" ( Road to Emmaus reference..), "I know my Redeemer lives" Nice discussion Peace
Jesus has come. His presence began in 1914. That signaled his first sign. (Matthew 24:7) “For nation will rise against nation and kingdom against kingdom, Historians called it World War 1 (1914-18). The 1 (one) for obvious reasons. Though Jesus is present in Kingdom power, humans in general wouldn't pay any attention (Matthew 24:39).
It is simple to understand time statement texts . Ask yourself , how did the first century saints the contemporaries understand this ? They all understood be in their lifetime . Otherwise it would mean they were misled and they were not misled . MATT 10:23, Matt 16:27-28 .
Jesus returning in the Second Coming, is not the same thing as the Rapture of 1 Thessalonians 4:13-18. We await both, but we believe that, in all likelihood, if our interpretation of scripture is true, we will be returning with Him. So-called liberal theology allegorizes the Bible into anything they want to make out of it. Our trust toward its spokespeople and it's ways is not great. Wright says many good things, but I would not look to him to explain God to me.
You know, many New Agers and trance channeling fanatics speak of a similar thing occurring in the future. Am 'evacuation' or cleansing of the planet. Ships with space brothers will come and take certain people out of here. They even say that a great 'sound' will circulate the planet at the time! I suspect the Dark side knows about this coming rapture and is preparing accordingly. See 'Bringers of the New Dawn', 'Revelation of things to come' and 'Project Evacuation Earth'. These rapture deniers will collapse on their knees out of shock and terror after it happens. May they wake up soon.
The Second Coming and the gathering of the saints are all part of the same event. Not only was Jesus very clear about this in Matt. 24, Rev. 19 prophesies the same exact thing.
@@theeternalsbeliever1779 No, they are 2 different things. The UFO deception is part and parcel of covering up the coming disappearances. That could not happen at the 2nd Coming, only at some time before!
@@theeternalsbeliever1779What does studying the end times without a proper understanding of Daniel's 70th week do? How does that effect a person's interpretation? What has happened with Daniel chapter 9? Why is it so important? Well so many scholars have said it was a prophecy for 490 biblical years. And 483 years were fulfilled when Messiah was cutoff in 33 AD. Then later the temple and the city was destroyed in 70 AD. And 7 biblical years are pending for the future of this world and then Daniel 9 24 will be fulfilled. Bible prophecy did not mention things that happened in the church age. The bible clearly hints Daniel 9 27 is future. Rev 11 2 says there will be a future 3rd temple in Jerusalem. Daniel 12 11 says the abomination of desolation will stop the daily sacrifice. 2 Thess 2 says the man of sin will enter the temple of God and demand to be worshiped as God. Rev 13 5-7 says a man will speak blasphemies and from that day have authority to continue 42 months over saints from all nations. Daniel 7 25 says the saints will be given into the hands of the antichrist for 3.5 years. Matthew 24 15 says the abomination of desolation will trigger the great tribulation that starts the worst time the world will ever see. So if you read Matthew 24 without a clear understanding of Daniel's 70th week, you really say the 2nd coming is the rapture. But with a proper understanding of Daniel's 70th week, knowing the world is headed for a covenant for 2520 days or 7 biblical years, you run into problems. The abomination of desolation has to happen on day 1261 of the 7 year covenant. And from day 1261, the saints are given into the hands of the antichrist for 3.5 years or 1260 days. Day 2520 will be the day of the 2nd coming immediately after the tribulation. The problem with those passages is that scripture cannot be broken. They are saints starting midtrib that start to be martyred on day 1261. And they will be given into the hands of the antichrist for 1260 days. Scripture will not be broken. Daniel 7 25 and Rev 13 5-7 will not be broken. There are no saints better than other saints. And there is no rapture on a day that will be known years before the event immediately after the tribulation. The problems come from the Fig Tree passages and the parable of the 10 virgins where no man knows the day or the hour. But the date of the 2nd coming will be known 7 biblical years before the event. If you read 2 Thess 2 and realize the man of sin is revealed in the temple midtrib, then you realize that the day of the Lord as birth pangs starts after that. And great confusion occurs with our gathering. But then with a proper understanding of Daniel's 70th week again there are problems. The saints are given into the hands of the antichrist for 3.5 years or 1260 days. And Daniel 9 24 occurs immediately after the tribulation on the last day. How can our gathering be any day in the 2nd half? So now you know what is restraining all this that is going to come unto the world. Our gathering is restraining all this. Then worldwide apostasy. Then the man of sin will be revealed midtrib.Then some unknown time in the 2nd half the day of the Lord judgments will start on the wicked as birth pangs and the wicked will not escape. These birth pangs will get worse and worse till the last day. But this will not break the Word of God with Daniel 7 25 and Rev 13 5-7. The saints will be given into the hands of the antichrist for 3.5 years. And the last day of the birth pangs immediately after the tribulation will be known 7 biblical years before the event. What happens when a person starts reading the book of Revelation. They see passages and Jesus coming in the clouds and on a horse. But again with a proper study of Daniel's 70th week there are problems. In the 2nd half Rev 13 5-7 occurs and the antichrist will have authority over saints from all nations for 42 months or 1260 days. And there is a trumpet in Matthew 24 27-31 and the angels gather His elect immediately after the tribulation. But this cannot break the Word of God. A person needs to figure out what day of Daniel's 70th week that trumpet will sound. This creates a huge problem. The book of Revelation only gives the antichrist authority to continue 42 months from the day he speaks great blasphemies. And Rev 1 7 says He comes on the clouds and all eyes will see Him. Meaning in Russia and China and Africa and North America and Japan and South America. Now it becomes supernatural when all the world can see the Lord and angels and heaven open. Zech 14 6-9 and Luke 17 23-37 along with Daniel 9 24 says it all ends on that day. All the wicked are destroyed on that day and that makes the bowl judgments supernatural after the entire world sees the Lord.
Jesus will not literally come as humans will never see him again (1 Timothy 6:16). His PRESENCE in Kingdom power was to be signaled by signs. The first was: (Matthew 24:7) “For nation will rise against nation and kingdom against kingdom, Historians call it the Great War and World War 1 (1914-18). That event started the last days for this system of things. The so-called rapture is about the remaining few CHOSEN ones who are still alive being put to death and transformed to spirit form in a blink of an eye. There will also be survivors of the coming war of change who will be the foundation of the New Earth (Revelation 7:9,10,14). (Psalm 37:29) The righteous will possess the earth, And they will live forever on it. The chosen few will be co-rulers with Jesus in God's heavenly Government (Revelation 5:9,10). Other righteous humans will live on earth as its subjects. Hope this is helpful.
@@willpower6720 Absolutely but dispensational eschatology is very weak. The Rapture and 2nd coming of Jesus are the same event. Otherwise you have the 2nd Coming of Jesus and the 3rd.
How will I know? We shall know Him for we shall be like Him! Its really not that difficult. Most theological expositions do just that, expose their own bias and then praise themselves about their great wisdom ! So grateful to the words of Jesus who said, He made known His plan understandable to little kids! No need of theologians, just His Holy Spirit.
Amen. C.S. Lewis said we would know more five minutes after we are in heaven than in a lifetime of speculating. You are right. Jesus said the Holy Spirit would teach us all things. Praise God!
God is not slow in fulfilling his promises to his people. And just like the promise of his first advent that came in the "fulness of time" in real space and in real time in the real and substantial incarnation, he promised to return in the same manner - Scripture teaches it as a remembered real promise by our Lord - and because of that testimony, it will happen in the its own "fullness of time." Upon that you can place your complete trust. These scholastics and academic types know not the Scriptures nor do they know the power of God. So take everything they say with a grain of salt.
@@alexanderv7702 I agree, we must also reject your interpretation of holy scriptures if doesn't agree with, and is in contradiction to, holy scriptures. I have no qualms with you on that one.
I Thessalonians 4:16-17 For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of an archangel, and with the trumpet of God. And the dead in Christ will rise first. Then we who are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And thus we shall always be with the Lord.
""This same Jesus, who was taken up from you into heaven, will come back in the same way you have seen him go into heaven" (Acts 1:11) I'm very sorry to notice that, Prof. Wright (who I otherwise admire greatly) does not address this "will come back in the same way" phrase in Acts. Again, how are we to understand this 2,000 years later? I like the direction Prof. Wright is going when he emphasizes God's Justice, Peace, and New Creation both appearing and finally becoming fully manifest in Jesus "on earth, as it is in heaven". But where and how will we see Jesus Himself? Will He be mysteriously and ubiquitously present in and through God's New Creation in Christ? Will He be found as all people come to see, know, and Love Him: in and through and for "the least of these my brothers and sisters"? Will He literally come flying in and walk upon the earth as the exalted heavenly King now coming back to earth to vanquish injustice and set things right? (very hard to believe literally). The words of the angel in Acts strongly suggest the latter while my own heart, spirit, and imagination prefer the former two interpretations. As a preacher and pastor, may I please ask for further scholarly input, so that I can respond in faith, hope, and love, to the several inquiries, and opinions, I get from others on Jesus's "Second Coming". Thank you!
Jesus is not coming down to transform people by his reign. He is bringing those who have died previously with him to meet believers still alive. The will be caught up together in the air and will descend together, not one group before the other, and will reign on the earth.
Why are secular Bible scholars or Theologians always willing to accept the Bible in a metaphorical or allegorical sense, but never literal? The Bible is the Holy Spirit inspired Word of God written for the ages and not a rorschach test looking for hidden messages and meanings. Jesus used relevant stories of the day to relate and teach, but does the Holy Sprit need to do the same?
One thing we can point out is that God did not abandon the people at the time of exile. The people had long abandoned him by then! But He did not abandoned them. In fact during the exile Gods working hand is readily scene as working about their return and rebirth as a people and nation. The people of Jesus day were looking for a conquering messiah who would overthrow Rome and all others…. Interesting talk for sure. This topic has been discussed since the early centuries. It’s almost as if the Bible miraculous hides the conclusive answers. Jesus spoke in parables and said no one shall no the day or hour! The Lord has surely hidden these things for a reason. Especially from those who claim to be wise.
Didn't Jesus tell his disciples that only the father knows when the end will come. Jesus said neither he nor the angels know. But when Jesus returns EVERYONE on earth will know.
Excellent point. We often forget that. That's how it ends for the vast majority of humanity. However, it's not really the end because the soul/spirit has been separated from the body, and the body has to be reunited with the soul/spirit for us to be completely human once again. So there must be a moment when all of us are united with our bodies and face judgment.
so the world didn't exist before you were born? or, if you die as a believer should you're children's fate be sealed at that point, whether they're believers or not? or if the seeds of salvation that u've spread that bring fruit after you die should not longer count towards you're heavenly rewards?
The return of Jesus is the beginning of eternity, it will be at the last day, the day of resurrection and judgement of all men. The millenium to come is a myth. Jesus is telling us when he will come again: Matt.28:20 Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you always, even unto the end of the world. Amen.
Theology student here. Is it me or did the English professor misspeak at 5:36 onwards? Doesn't the fall of jerusalem and creation not returning to primeval chaos show that Jeremiah WAS actually a false prophey? Surely not? He said that Jeremiah prophesized that when Jerusalem would fall it would be like without form and void, like a primeval chaos. He then goes on to say that when Jerusalem fell, nobody considered Jeremiah as a false prophet because the earth had not gone back to chaos. But thay doesnt make sense? My view is: According to what he said at the beginning, the prophecy of jerusalem falling, there would be chaos, but when it DID fall there was no chaos, therefore by logic, Jeremiah was a false prophet because the chaos he was prophesizing did not occur? Check out 5:36 maybe it was the jet lag! 🤔
I think you’re misunderstanding what Jeremiah is saying. With the fall of Jerusalem in 70AD, the nation of Israel was decimated. That doesn’t mean they literally became formless and void, but they might as well be formless and void. You have to read it with the understanding of how it was written THEN, not how we read literature TODAY. Ancient near eastern literature had ample hyperbolic language and didn’t have near the vocabulary we do today.
I love N.T. Wright's teaching, and he continues to help me understand Scripture. In the light of this video, I have a question: What does it mean when in the gospels, the writers say that Jesus looked "up" to heaven and prayed to the Father. I just saw that (in Luke 11 or 12, I think). Thank you!
As erudite as he is, not every topic is N. T. Wright's strength. As do many replacement theology advocates, he holds forth on eschatology without educating himself on the subject.
Honestly, still don’t know how he comes to those conclusions about the meaning of the darkening of the sun reddening of the moon verse in Isaiah (it also appears in Joel and Daniel), especially given to the way it’s presented in revelation. Maybe he’s right though, who knows
The meaning is just that, in my view. I always say there will be 2 things that tell me (if we are still here) Christ is at the doorstep. The sun going black and red moon, and the Chinese Eastern armies on the border of Israel.
If God darkens the sun, the sun reflected by the moon will automatically be dark red. And people don't think about it, but God can do that, and make any adjustments necessary in the universe.
@@lorenzor124 But if the sun is pitch black, you can't see the moon as blood. The words are open enough to interpret in terms of reality like that. Pitch black I'd an extreme possibility, but it does not seem to be what is meant. Besides, this is before Jesus returns in the clouds, right?
@@lindajohnson4204 You are correct. My mistake was to say the moon will be red. Verse 29 says clearly it will NOT show light. So, I think it is a pitch darkness. And what a grand & terrifying entrance to blast into our dimension as a messiah warrior/conqueror. The level of terror for his enemies will be like nothing ever before.
Like David's Tabernacle YOU are the tent 🎪 The WORD is written on your hearts 🥰 The Spirit of God is in YOU 🎉 sABBAth with Daddy 24-7 ❤ A LIVING ARK OF THE COVENANT 🔥 A TEMPLE MADE WITHOUT HANDS ❤ Keep the Feasts of the Lord by the Spirit once for all time becoming a Temple Made without Hands 😮
He says the Jews in Jesus' time were looking for God's literal kingdom on earth, and that this is what Jesus was preaching about. What reason, then, is there to think that Jesus actually meant some sort of subtle changing of the world through the Gospel message rather than a literal, imminent kingdom? The other apocalyptic Jews, including John the Baptist, believed a literal kingdom was coming, so wouldn't the most reasonable conclusion be that Jesus thought this too? The above question is kind of tongue in cheek. I know why people come up with these sorts of interpretations; it's because they are committed to the inerrancy to the Bible and thus have to somehow make all the different messages in the synoptic Gospels and John fit together and be right. But historical study shouldn't rely on faith claims.
Wow! you even mentioned the very verse that disproves this non traditional view, there is no curtain! They watched him go up in the sky, we weren't making this up.
As a disciple of Christ, Christ will come for me either in skies or most likely when I die. Repent of your sins, believe in Christ, know He was raised from the dead, and I'll see yall in Heaven and the new Earth. Praise Christ🎉🎉🎉 ps stay in The Bible and prayer at least daily. Preferably at all times.
And to them that look for him; shall he appear a secound time without sin unto salvation. This was written 2,000 years ago. The Apostle wasn't lying to the people. Many saw his appearing. Jesus said the Holy Ghost would show us all things that belong to Jesus.
““Watch out! Don’t let your hearts be dulled by carousing and drunkenness, and by the worries of this life. Don’t let that day catch you unaware, like a trap. For that day will come upon everyone living on the earth. Keep alert at all times. And pray that you might be strong enough to escape these coming horrors and stand before the Son of Man.”” Luke 21:34-36 NLT Nothing is more useless then bible teacher.
Especially the present teachers who are into philosophies, theories and theologies of man, not based on the revelation of GOD but based on their own wisdom, and thereby they begin to scoff at scripture and anything that does not conform to their Doctoral theses and misguided scholarly conclusions.
yep.the bible reads like the ravings of a madman.full of ridiculous claims and contradictions and falsehood.one thing that it does make clear is that there was a lack of institutions for epileptics and schizophrenics in Palestine at that time.
If one rightly divides scripture, this becomes simple to understand. Watch Justin Johnson at Grace Ambassador’s message on Rightly Dividing the Word of Truth.
We started the last days at the Resurection. The last hours likely began when Israel was born a nation in one day, May 1948. With all the things going on today, we are probably in the last seconds. Soon, Jesus will sound the trumpet, and all those who have repented and put their faith in Him will be raptured. We will meet Him in the air. The tribulation, the time of Jacob's trouble, will follow. At the conclusion of the tribulation, Jesus will come back to earth (second coming), and the church will be with Him in His coming. HE will establish His kingdom on earth and reign for a thousand years. Then the new heaven and new earth will replace the old heavens and earth, and He will reign and we will be with Him forever and ever, Amen come Lord Jesus.
@billdeuchler7030 wrote, "We started the last days at the Resurection. The last hours likely began when Israel was born a nation in one day, May 1948. With all the things going on today, we are probably in the last seconds. " Date setting is probably not a good idea. Christian history is littered with the false prophecies of date-setters.
@billdeuchler7030 wrote, "HE will establish His kingdom on earth and reign for a thousand years." Where can I find that in the New Testament? Dan
@@BibleResearchTools Sorry for the extended delay. I'm not date setting and certainly we can't know the day or hour, but we can know the season. Regarding the millennial reign see Rev 19: 11-16, & 20:3-4, 7
@Together-Forever2820 wrote, "@BibleResearchTools Sorry for the extended delay. I'm not date setting and certainly we can't know the day or hour, but we can know the season. How do we determine the season? @Together-Forever2820 wrote, "Regarding the millennial reign see Rev 19: 11-16, & 20:3-4, 7" I am familiar with a thousand-year reign in Rev 20, but the scripture says nothing about a millennial reign. A millennium is 1000 years. The term "a" or "the" thousand years in the scripture is open-ended. Dan
This is a tough issue. So many Christians seem to think that Jesus is returning any day now. Honestly, I think 10,000 years is too early. It might even be more metaphorical than literal. Jesus's return might be spiritual rather than physical.
@@ronoxley4138 Not much, but given that the apostles were strongly expecting Jesus to return seemingly in their lifetime, which didn't happen and indeed was 2000 years ago, an honest person has to start wondering. I also remember when Jesus was asked by his disciples about why the scribes say that Elijah must come first. (see Mk 9.11) Jesus replies that Elijah has already come (a reference to John the Baptist, I believe). In that case Jesus takes what was thought to be a literal interpretation of Elijah's appearance and explained how it was instead a figurative appearance. The same may be true for the 2nd coming: he has already come but people didn't recognize him. The point is that literal meanings are sometimes figurative.
@@slydog7131 true, there are figurative meanings in the statements Jesus gives about the end times. I’m also not a big “end time predictor). I do believe it will be a true appearance by Jesus to the world & not a metaphorical/figurative event.
@@ronoxley4138 Could be, For me there are mysteries concerning this. Certainly, there are many verses that refer to a physical appearance, such as Thessalonians 4.13-18. But those who think that we are in the last days will likely be disappointed.
Isaiah 13:4 talks about many kingdoms, coincidently in the portion that appears to be apocalyptic, while 13:17 mentions the Medes only (a single kingdom) when it's talking about the contemporary Babylon. we already have an understanding that many end-of-days prophecies also had a contemporary aspect to them. How else would the priests know to include in scriptures prophecies of end-days. The short-term fulfillment was the proof that the prophet was of God. also, why go to Isaiah to get the definition of the Sun, Moon, and Stars, why not go to when they were first introduced in Genesis 1? where is Babylon in Gen 1? sorry, but this is nonsense.
The skeptical side of me wants to say that Inaugurated Eschatology is a patchwork that tries to placate and smooth over the inconsistencies in the new testament, one side saying that Jesus definitely thought that he was going to bring about God's kingdom ("and this is what it looks like", as Bishop Wright has put it before) and that his death would basically start "the end of the world" for lack of a better word, and that his apostles would all be alive to see the great judgement. on the other side are texts like Pauls later letters (Philippians, Ephesians, ect) and the Johannine corpus seem to imply that the church very early on stopped looking for "the big day" to be RIGHT right at the door, and focused more on the afterlife and a soon but not imminent coming. Between the "prepper" Consistent eschatology and the more moderate/later Realized eschatology of doing good in the now, I guess the Inaugurated view gives Christians the mandate to both prepare ourselves for what's coming and making right now more like what we believe is to come, since it's already here with us. TL;DR, Between something like Mark, Revelation or 1 Thessalonians with it's rushed tone and doomsday outlook and the more heaven-minded views of Ephesians or the First Letter of John, you have the Gospels of Matthew and Luke-Acts, especially in Matthew that expands Mark's (critics say, posthumous or concurrent) description of the Sack of Jerusalem and God's final judgement with a moral passage on the Judgement of the Sheep and the Goats, where the way the church acts and treats people right now will have an effect on how we spend the rest of our lives when, like paul says, "the perfect comes"
This man has it right. It is an inner reality that we experience in the here and now. Jesus returned in the Spirit on the day of Pentecost and that is when the prophecy about the moon turning to blood was fulfilled. Peter said that in his discourse to those that where present. And on my servants and on my handmaidens I will pour out in those days of my Spirit; and they shall prophesy: And I will shew wonders in heaven above, And signs in the earth beneath; Blood, and fire, and vapour of smoke: The sun shall be turned into darkness, And the moon into blood, Before that great and notable Day of the Lord come: And it shall come to pass, that whosoever shall call on the name of the Lord shall be saved. Acts 2:18-21 And when he was demanded of the Pharisees, when the kingdom of God should come, he answered them and said, The kingdom of God cometh not with observation: neither shall they say, Lo here! or, lo there! for, behold, the kingdom of God is within you. Luke 17:20,21 For the Son of man shall come in the glory of his Father with his angels; and then he shall reward every man according to his works. Verily I say unto you, There be some standing here, which shall not taste of death, till they see the Son of man coming in his kingdom. Matthew 28:27,28 He that hath my commandments, and keepeth them, he it is that loveth me: and he that loveth me shall be loved of my Father, and I will love him, and will manifest myself to him. John 14:21 KJV Heaven is within us, it is a spiritual kingdom not one that is physical. The hope is that one day all people will be converted and come to union with God when heaven and earth are one. We can become of that reality now. Where the veil is lifted and God is manifest within his children. when he shall come to be glorified in his saints, and to be admired in all them that believe (because our testimony among you was believed) in that day. 2 Thessalonians 1:10 KJV
I am reminded of the billboards that used to dot the interstates in NC at least, one of which said something to the effect: “why do you doubt my existence. I don’t doubt yours”, IIRC. Maybe his answer in this case would be: “why do you need to know”? 😏
Interesting that Tom Wright can clearly see biblical metaphors as in the book of Mark but cannot see it in how some people see heaven (God’s space) being above. (Comments about Australia and NZ) It’s almost characterising people as believers in a flat earth rather than as a way of understanding heaven through metaphor: remembering that metaphor always stands for something real. Yes Jesus fulfils the law and is the new temple - built up in 3 days. I think there is still room to say that God did not ‘un-choose His people notwithstanding that we gentiles were grafted onto the Jewish vine.
Everything Jesus supposedly said is out of the gospels, written long after he was gone. At a time when there were no ways of actually recording what was happening, with almost all people being analphabets. It is just hearsay. And this guy take those seriously. Pityful.
TH-cam needs a feature where no one can comment until they’ve watched the video.
lol, no kidding!
That makes perfect sense!
With very few exceptions, I watch a video before commenting on it. I watched this one.
I play a violin and sing. (Not at the same time.) After I had gone once a week for most of a couple of years (except during COVID-19 shutdown) to help with a sing-along at an assisted living facility (nursing home) in the next town north of us, two clergy from our town began taking turns providing sermonettes to go along with the singing. They both lived in our town so I rode with each of them to the facility several times.
After hearing them both preach and after talking with each of them privately several times, I thought I had earned the right to ask one of them a question. His wife was with him in the car when I asked it: “Can you tell me what Jesus said to do when we hear he has returned?”
Both the clergyman and his wife said we should rejoice when he returns.
So I reminded them that my question was what Jesus said we should do when we hear he has returned. Neither the clergyman nor his wife could think of anything Jesus said to do when we hear he has returned.
OK. So now I’m asking you. Anyone who reads this, please take your time and look it up if you don’t know offhand. Then please give me the answer you find and whether you had to look it up.
In these days so dominated by dispensationalism, listening to Tom Wright is like a breath of fresh air. ✔️
Not a Christian, but I actually kind of appreciated the Dispensationalism perspective for taking the Hebrew Bible more literally.
I don't agree that the pre-trib rapture is in the Bible, but that's a similar kind of thing to the partial preterism of N. T. Wright.
Both Dispensationalism and partial preterism will say that 1 Thess. 4 is talking about a different "coming" to Matthew 24:30. They can also then sometimes make a division in the Olivet Discourse where part of it is about one kind of "coming", and then it switches to speaking about a different "coming".
So I would view this kind of inconsistency as a problem for both Dispensationalism and partial preterism.
@@Henry-yh6vv I have a question Henry, you say you’re not a Christian yet you study this stuff more than 99.9% of the professing church!! What might your interest in this subject be I’m really curious to know?
@@Henry-yh6vv Anyway dear friend. I can’t help you with 1 Thes 4. As a new Preterist myself that’s still a real problem passage for me to fully understand too but I do know that if we keep seeking, the Spirit WILL reveal these difficulties to us. That’s my testimony. Just keep going and things will be revealed to each one of us ‘at the appointed time’ on our individual journey.
@@Henry-yh6vv You are definitely correct though how Jesus switches thought mid flow. The best example I can think of is Nicodemus being ‘born again’ along with the woman at the well story and the dual meaning of ‘water’. We must always ask, is the subject we are reading to be interpreted physically or spiritually.
@@Powerslave-gi7nx Hi, I got interested in Christian eschatology from a skeptical perspective, and so I got books on some of the different positions.
I appreciate the perspective, I am a Christian not because there is a(could be) a reward, pie in the sky. Rather the ways of Jesus are just the best way to live life, the reasons for the present unhappiness in the world is a lack of connection with the person of Jesus. I appreciate the pointing out the failure of hope, there is another driving factor and this is Love and the resurrection that it brings.
You do know King James had a English version written and it was done by Jews and Greeks neither were Christians. Never in all his days on earth did any of the disciples call him Jesus. What's weird Jesus in Latin is pronounced "Hey Zeus". Did the Greeks get in a jab at King James?
@@JohnSmith-kr6ek Its called transliteration. It happens with all words passed from one dialect to another. Transliteration does not change the *meaning* of the name. Jesus still means "Yah's salvation"
@jeremyprovince4942...I don't know who could agree with your statement about Jesus.His central doctrine was horrible.He told men that he met to desert their wives children and animals and follow him.this cruel command would have left the deserted family heart broken and in a desperate struggle for survival in the harsh desert without the main provider who suddenly left.His reason for this he said was because the world would end during the lifetime of the apostles.He was cruel to demand that from uneducated desert tribesmen and he was wrong because his prophecy failed.Furthermore,Jesus did not mention anything that was not known at that time.He did not know the true age of the earth.he did not know the Americas and South pacific countries existed.He did not know that several other humanoid species that were our relatives but became extinct some 40,000 years ago. He did not tell the men to stop forcing their wives to sleep outside in a shed with the goats during their menstrual cycle. he did not even know enough about medicine to give us a talk on germ theory that would have prevented millions of people from dying from preventable diseases. there were more than 300 self proclaimed messiahs who were crucified by the Romans in that era.there is no reason to suggest that Jesus knew any more or was a better person than any of the others.it is high time we humans grow up and out of this bronze age nonsense.
@@clarkelaidlaw1678 Geez, I hope you don’t think this is how everyone cherry picks twisted interpretations. - jesus gave quite clear and simple teachings on how to live Life better, and ( briefest and clearest) most simply summarized all commandments as “ Love thy neighbor as thyself” - how can we “ find everyone” who translates this in the odd way you present?
The related greatest commandment is to love the lord thy God, who is the Word ( Teachings of God) that point the Way, shine the Light, to live a more virtuous Life - which is exactly what Jeremy simply is pointing out. Whether you agree with any religion or not, it’s hard to understand why you see this so negatively.
(You are accurate, though: Jesus neglected to tell us “not to run with scissors”)
@@clarkelaidlaw1678 Brother, i can only encourage you to take your time to read and take your time to discover the fundamental messages of Scripture, both the OT and how the NT helps us (or helps me at least) to see the big picture and the complete story. For a large part of my life, i read individual verses out of context. In recent years, i have had to do a lot of unlearning and relearning. That's ok brother, it's part and parcel of life. King Solomon went through that phase too and gave us Ecclesiastes. That book is another good reading. Try it.
What a wonderfully informative exposition from Prof. Wright. I enjoyed this immensely. I have always believed that much of the difficulty surrounding religion and faith stemmed from problems of language and translation as well as culture.
Having come out of that philosophy in the 70s, gone to seminary and taught the Bible for 35 years I have come to that dispensationalism is one of the biggest heresies in the church and it’s leading many people astray when they think about eschatology.
Wow, you've taught the Bible for 35 years?
Absolutely agree.
Dispensationalism is almost as bad as darwinism.
I don't know why this is controversial. But then again this is how I learned it long before I ever heard of N.T. Wright.
well, maybe it is time you state here what you know about the second-coming of Christ
Jim, Don't be deceived. Read for yourself. Mathew 24 and many places. What does it say to you?
Tim LaHaye Left Behind books and The Late Great Planet Earth by Hal Lindsay did a number on a lot of people. Those people should Google how the rapture theory got started.
@@logic8673 It says to me Jesus prophesied the destruction of the Temple and the end of Judaism as they knew it.
@@justnoted2995
The word "second" before 'coming' was brought in by translators. Christ alreády came and is ríght inside of us, waiting for the world to awaken and become aware of His indwelling presence.
Col 1:26,27 'the mystery which has been hidden from ages and from generations, but now has been revealed to His saints. To them God willed to make known what are the riches of the glory of this mystery among the Gentiles: which is Christ in (ín!) you, the hope of glory!
We are the clouds, His holy temple, His sanctuary, His dwelling place .. and from out thís holy temple He will soon manifest His final appearances as 1Thes 4 have it!
Jesus has made us óne with Himself at the cross! It's only the carnal mind that still pictures distance and separation. John 14:20 + 17:22,23
A gem tgat is what you are, it is so difficult to found sound bible teachers you are one of the rare ones and i feel blessed ..Thank you beyond words..And may God bless for your service abundantly in the name of Jesus Christ
Love listening to NT Wright! Totally agree with him about the problem of premillennial dispensational teaching in the west. I taught it for years until I realized this doctrine just did not add up. But I have also realized that there were many “comings” of Christ. FIRST he came we can all agree in a manger (Luke 2:10-12). But everyone then tends to jump to a physical second coming forgetting the actual SECOND coming via the Spirit (St. John 14:3, 16-18). Then there was a THIRD coming promised by Christ and was fulfilled when he came in judgement as prophecies in Matthew 24:30.
Brilliant statement by NTW
1 Thessalonians 4:16
“For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first 1 Thessalonians 4:17
“Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.”
I would like him to comment on that.
@@robertbruce1552 Yes so would I especially about the meeting in the air bit. This as opposed to every eye will see him. Been inside clouds you cannot see out of them, let alone see into them.
@@robertbruce1552 He does teach on that and it connects very nicely with what he says above.
It's the Day of the Lord. What's the confusion?
@@daveharris9120 1 Thessalonians 4:16
“For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:”
The second coming (rapture) will be a noisy affair.
Revelation 1:7
“Behold, he cometh with clouds; and every eye shall see him, and they also which pierced him: and all kindreds of the earth shall wail because of him. Even so, Amen.”
The comments are generally revealing.I find it difficult, however, to believe that any commentators have actually listened carefully to his comments and observations?
Interesting point of view. I am one of those who believe in the separate rapture and end coming of Jesus, and I believe this for number of reasons: 1) Jesus Himself told His followers that He'd return to take them to be where He is. This is in with a picture very familiar to Jews, that is, a wedding.(In old Jewish culture, the bridegroom after engagement would leave the bride with her parents, and proceed to go home to build a home for them in his father's insula, their family complex or compound. Upon completion, he would return for his bride with all his friends, family, and invited guests making as much noise and fanfare as possible, so as to let everyone know that he was returning for his bride and that there would be a wedding.) We see this marriage language in multiple places in the Old and New Testaments. 2) the joyful mood of this return for His followers starkly contrasts His appearance at the end, coming on a horse drenched in blood with the sword of His word coming from His mouth to judge the nations. (See Revelstions 19:11-16) 3) The angels at His ascension said, He'd return in this way. 4) if so many of the church fathers (who were Jewish) testified of this (and countless unnamed believers staked their lives on it), who are we to doubt that, that is God's intention? 5) whether the rapture happens or not does not change the fact that Jesus will return as He promised to rule the nations with a rod of iron, to set this right and make all things new. Lastly, many say this will be the end of Judaism and God's plan with the Jews. In answer to this, I'd point to the fact that Paul spent whole chapters of the letter to the Romans speaking on how God will not cast off His people. What's more, in the Old Testament this is also mentioned, especially by Davidin the Psalms, and the prophets.
Ultimately, Jesus is coming back. Whether now, later, once or twice, He will come back. We just need to be patient and keep on doing His work of sharing the good news and helping people.
I love your reply.
I have an incurable cancer, so have spent more time than I expected to, pondering what happens next and the value of a life cut short with all the prophetic words spoken over my life, all the sense of what God had called me to coming to nothing in this age. Old people have to live in the immediate shadow of their mortality, but rarely share how they feel about this. As a relatively young person, who has been through the refiner's fire more than I believed possible, very little of what I have read in the chat, makes sense.
There are so many angles and hints in God's word that I suspect it is just slightly beyond our ability to comprehend.
For me, I am constantly challenged by the idea throughout the old testament that we sleep in death. An idea that was echoed by Paul.
I spend a lot of time sort of sleeping, but I would better describe it as abiding. It is a state of being with Christ. I wonder if this is more a picture of what will happen to us between death and resurrection.
Best comment in the entire chat
Yes. Here but in another dimension!
Thank you for this!
Thank you for posting this video.
Jesus Is The Word! ❤
I listen to NT Wright a lot, and every time I listen to him, I have to listen to him a lot. But if it's like a curtain then why did the disciples look up as Jesus was leaving.
Something unusual will happen before he returns, trust me it's not what anyone thinks
@@youngmarciowould you share what you think it is? Or are you just saying you don't know either? Do you think we're supposed to recognise it coming?
@@youngmarcio Amos 3:7
Jesus is coming in the clouds, every eye will see Him, if He appeared on a street corner, or parking lot, how could every see Him, will everyone be given x-ray vision to see through buildings and structures?
@@TS-yd6cn...youngmarcio Doesn't know anything.
Spend your time doing good by helping the less fortunate or praying or asking God for mercy. Nobody knows the time of the next coming of Jesus except God the Father.
"'I am with you always." There's no waiting.
Indeed, His Spirit is always with us...
@@Bijbelstudies With the Resurrection, he showed he was not a body but spirit.
That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit
@@robertdouglas8895 Actually He was both. That was the meaning of the incarnation. See 1 Peter 3:18 For Christ also hath once suffered for sins, the just for the unjust, that he might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh, but quickened by the Spirit.
@@Bijbelstudies Since we are spirit, not flesh, we are created in the likeness of God.
You can pretend you are separate from God if you want, but I don't.
@@Bijbelstudies Not just with us. In us. As us. One.
0 Neither pray I for these alone, but for them also which shall believe on me through their word;
21 That they all may be one; as thou, Father, art in me, and I in thee, that they also may be one in us: that the world may believe that thou hast sent me.
22 And the glory which thou gavest me I have given them; that they may be one, even as we are one:
23 I in them, and thou in me, that they may be made perfect in one; and that the world may know that thou hast sent me, and hast loved them, as thou hast loved me.
Didn't Jesus's earliest followers believe he would be returning /re-appearing in their lifetime?
He said not all of you will die before seeing my coming refering to John's vision of revelation. He also said in the time of the end there would be ways rumours of wars famines and earthquakes in various places. I sent think he implied it was soon but the disciples did
No. Paul states in 2 Thessalonians 2 that the time of Christ’s coming will not take place until the “man of sin” is revealed in prophetic history first. The same entity mentioned in Daniel 7 and Revelation 12 as persecuting the saints for 1260 days or “a time, times, and half a time.” According to Daniel 7, the Son of Man will judge that entity at the end of that time, and then return to Earth to gather His faithful to Him (Rev. 1:7 says “and every eye shall see Him”)
mind blowing! learning so much!
What was the answer?
So good!
Wow, the moment when the Lord "appears" is more like a sudden opening of our eyes, and even a shift or awakening in our ability to perceive a fuller, grander reality that transcends that which we are accustomed to seeing and acknowledging; it's like a heightened awareness! No wonder Paul admonishes us to be sober, be vigilant, awake from sleep, and be ready, AND that our transformation will take place in the blink of an eye! But so many of us are in Star Trek mode, waiting to be beamed up to another part of space, which is laughable. The truth is that we're awaiting the appearance, the revelation of Jesus Christ, right here on Planet Earth!
Wow sooooo good!!
Laughable? Interesting. Believing in Jesus coming back is like believing God rose him from the dead. Talk about science fiction, dead people stay dead. Laughable?
2:34 in theatre it would be a scrim. You cant see what is really on stage until it is revealed.
on and on.....I get lost, in the details.....like answer the question...
Finally!!! Someone said it. Thank you 💯💯💯
It's not important on how it will happen ( the 2nd Coming of Jesus) what's important is whether we can attain Salvation when He comes..
My friend if you have no salvation when he comes there’s no second chances, you can’t honestly think your going to be about life unregenerate and at enmity toward God and then Jesus will rock up with the trumpets blasting and you get in a bus to Jerusalem and get it sorted ?? Today is the day of salvation my friend today !! If you are not sorted before you hear that trumpet then you will never be in Gods presence ever, you will be separated from him though. Nt wright is classed by most evangelicals as someone to NOT listen too and is lost on many matters.
I had no trouble attaining salvation when I went to the cross as a sinner and believed in Him.
A new heaven and a new earth,
I appreciate these important clarifications.
I've always wondered how students take notes in his classes...
Quickly
Christ literally came the first time. It is stated that he’s coming back.
Let’s not forget that.
Yes he will return
The only clue Jesus really gave us was Matt 24:14 - that the gospel will be preached to all nations and then the end will come. We need to get the gospel to all nations.
Our Father, who art in heaven,
hallowed be thy Name,
thy kingdom come,
thy will be done,
on earth as it is in heaven.
Give us this day our daily bread.
And forgive us our trespasses,
as we forgive those
who trespass against us.
And lead us not into temptation,
but deliver us from evil.
For thine is the kingdom,
and the power, and the glory,
for ever and ever. Amen.
Amen.
He returns through the real sons of God. Christ in us.
Very Interesting 🎉
For further study, read R.T. France's commentaries on Matthew and Mark.
Its been a very ill minute since I've heard this voice. Ever surprised by Joy, but seldom off the fruit of our loom.
Tough time to be be the Clive of ours. Especially after the TKs went home.
Stay Mere, brother. I mean that.
TKs for life.
PPS, maybe you could convince the head of your order to buy Snowmass?
Start a Taize without all that tricky French stuff. In America. In the mid 2020s. In the name of the King.
Lord knows he's got the resources. #savesnowmass.
"Then in the name of the King go find some old man with less lore and More Wisdom that still keeps some in his house!" -G-Unit, Houses of Healing, Return of the King.
Big boy stuff. 😉
Peace, Eothain.
3:57 My understanding is that the sun moon and stars symbolizes old Israel that is about to be replaced with the new Israel. *Genesis 37:9* _"Then Joseph had another dream and told it to his brothers. “Look,” he said, “I had another dream, and this time the sun and moon and eleven stars were bowing down to me.” He told his father and brothers, but his father rebuked him and said, “What is this dream that you have had? Will your mother and brothers and I actually come and bow down to the ground before you?"_
That will be a great discussion.
He referred to Isaiah 13 and the fall of Babylon. A quick reading of that passage shows that Isaiah 13 is still yet future. I see your reasoning for saying the sun moon and stars symbolise Israel, but it’s hard to see that in Isaiah 13 or other passages. In my mind it’s better to take it literally with the sun moon and stars symbolising the sun moon and stars.
More likely the sun, moon and 11 stars symbolized his father, mother and 11 siblings (11 is hardly a coincidence), indicating Joseph was more important than any of them. That is why his brothers became jealous. His father clearly understood what he was implying. I dont think there's any need to go beyond that.
An erudite and eminent biblical scholar, N.T. Wright is worth considering (reading and listening to). Among the different / divergent theological views concerning the Return of Jesus Christ, "Dispensational theology" has dominated U.S. evangelicalism of the last 100+ years. Taking Revelation (the Apocalypse) as a case study, historically the 'book' has been read both allegorically and literally. Noted biblical scholar and church historian, Gerald Bray, shows simply how divergent views arose, especially the "background of fear...permeated the persecuted church of the second and third centuries." (Biblical Interpretation, pp. 449ff.)
In context, the rise of "dispensational" (or "millenarianism" view, from Latin for '1000') was introduced to the U.S. through the Anglo-Irish Bible teacher, J. N. Darby (1800-1882). (A former colleague, Dr.Peter Lee, PhD, PhD wrote his noted UK dissertation on J. N. Darby.)
Ironically, a similar "background of fear" lives in our time. A statement from Jesus is worthy of consideration: "I tell you, he (God) will give justice to them speedily. Nevertheless, when the Son of Man comes, will he find faith on earth?" (Luke 18:8, ESV)
Actually there is no one called a Bible scholar. Just pretenders to Bible knowledge.
None of Jesus apostles had any human issued qualification.
Only Paul had what can be called a human issued qualification.
In fact, God hides the truth from these 'qualified charlatans' (Matthew 11:25).
@@tongakhan230 What are you talking about?
Matthew 11:25 - At that time Jesus said, “I praise you, Father, Lord of heaven and earth, because you have hidden these things from the wise and learned, and revealed them to little children.
You are taking the verse out of context, egregiously.
How are you any better than the biblical scholars? No, I think YOU are the pretender.
Thank you for this info!
@@rallegra An enlightening and wonderful book is, "Climbing Parnassus: A New Apologia for Greek and Latin" (Wilmington, Delaware: ISI Books, 2002) by Tracy Lee Simmons. This author secured a masters in classics from Oxford University.
He knows what he's saying
True, the book of Revelation is filled metaphor and symbolism, but the Bible interprets itself. One can always look to other passages of scripture to fill in details or to make the meaning clear. The key to understanding Bible prophecy is knowing the identity of the end time nations discussed in these prophecies. With that understanding, Daniel, Revelation, the prophets along with Christ’s Olivet prophecies can be well understood.
Jesus Never Left! He left His Spirit Here With us..each of us..within us. If we are listening we are Obeying His commandments and Forgiving EveryOne..just as He Did the First time!
Yes Jesus did leave and Ge sent the Holy Spirit just as He promised.
When Jesus comes...believe me....we'll know ( respectively)...and Christ walks with me, and is within me..daily, ( I can't see ??) through in Faith,
I believe, whether on my right and left sides, or leading me, witin this difficult thing called " Life" ( Road to Emmaus reference..),
"I know my Redeemer lives" Nice discussion Peace
Jesus has come. His presence began in 1914. That signaled his first sign.
(Matthew 24:7) “For nation will rise against nation and kingdom against kingdom,
Historians called it World War 1 (1914-18). The 1 (one) for obvious reasons.
Though Jesus is present in Kingdom power, humans in general wouldn't pay any attention (Matthew 24:39).
Come quickly dear Jesus! ! !
Yes
I won't hold my breath.
It is simple to understand time statement texts . Ask yourself , how did the first century saints the contemporaries understand this ? They all understood be in their lifetime . Otherwise it would mean they were misled and they were not misled . MATT 10:23, Matt 16:27-28 .
And modern skeptics can say that Jesus didn't fulfill all of his prophecy.
I disagree with N.T Wright. I understand some of what he is saying, but disagree. I know we will all find out when that time happens
He did come soon in 70AD 😊
And we are in the new heavens and earth!
Jesus returning in the Second Coming, is not the same thing as the Rapture of 1 Thessalonians 4:13-18. We await both, but we believe that, in all likelihood, if our interpretation of scripture is true, we will be returning with Him.
So-called liberal theology allegorizes the Bible into anything they want to make out of it. Our trust toward its spokespeople and it's ways is not great. Wright says many good things, but I would not look to him to explain God to me.
You know, many New Agers and trance channeling fanatics speak of a similar thing occurring in the future. Am 'evacuation' or cleansing of the planet. Ships with space brothers will come and take certain people out of here. They even say that a great 'sound' will circulate the planet at the time!
I suspect the Dark side knows about this coming rapture and is preparing accordingly.
See 'Bringers of the New Dawn', 'Revelation of things to come' and 'Project Evacuation Earth'.
These rapture deniers will collapse on their knees out of shock and terror after it happens. May they wake up soon.
The Second Coming and the gathering of the saints are all part of the same event. Not only was Jesus very clear about this in Matt. 24, Rev. 19 prophesies the same exact thing.
@@theeternalsbeliever1779 No, they are 2 different things. The UFO deception is part and parcel of covering up the coming disappearances. That could not happen at the 2nd Coming, only at some time before!
@@theeternalsbeliever1779What does studying the end times without a proper understanding of Daniel's 70th week do? How does that effect a person's interpretation?
What has happened with Daniel chapter 9? Why is it so important? Well so many scholars have said it was a prophecy for 490 biblical years. And 483 years were fulfilled when Messiah was cutoff in 33 AD. Then later the temple and the city was destroyed in 70 AD. And 7 biblical years are pending for the future of this world and then Daniel 9 24 will be fulfilled. Bible prophecy did not mention things that happened in the church age.
The bible clearly hints Daniel 9 27 is future. Rev 11 2 says there will be a future 3rd temple in Jerusalem. Daniel 12 11 says the abomination of desolation will stop the daily sacrifice. 2 Thess 2 says the man of sin will enter the temple of God and demand to be worshiped as God. Rev 13 5-7 says a man will speak blasphemies and from that day have authority to continue 42 months over saints from all nations. Daniel 7 25 says the saints will be given into the hands of the antichrist for 3.5 years. Matthew 24 15 says the abomination of desolation will trigger the great tribulation that starts the worst time the world will ever see.
So if you read Matthew 24 without a clear understanding of Daniel's 70th week, you really say the 2nd coming is the rapture. But with a proper understanding of Daniel's 70th week, knowing the world is headed for a covenant for 2520 days or 7 biblical years, you run into problems. The abomination of desolation has to happen on day 1261 of the 7 year covenant. And from day 1261, the saints are given into the hands of the antichrist for 3.5 years or 1260 days. Day 2520 will be the day of the 2nd coming immediately after the tribulation. The problem with those passages is that scripture cannot be broken. They are saints starting midtrib that start to be martyred on day 1261. And they will be given into the hands of the antichrist for 1260 days. Scripture will not be broken. Daniel 7 25 and Rev 13 5-7 will not be broken. There are no saints better than other saints. And there is no rapture on a day that will be known years before the event immediately after the tribulation. The problems come from the Fig Tree passages and the parable of the 10 virgins where no man knows the day or the hour. But the date of the 2nd coming will be known 7 biblical years before the event.
If you read 2 Thess 2 and realize the man of sin is revealed in the temple midtrib, then you realize that the day of the Lord as birth pangs starts after that. And great confusion occurs with our gathering. But then with a proper understanding of Daniel's 70th week again there are problems. The saints are given into the hands of the antichrist for 3.5 years or 1260 days. And Daniel 9 24 occurs immediately after the tribulation on the last day. How can our gathering be any day in the 2nd half? So now you know what is restraining all this that is going to come unto the world. Our gathering is restraining all this. Then worldwide apostasy. Then the man of sin will be revealed midtrib.Then some unknown time in the 2nd half the day of the Lord judgments will start on the wicked as birth pangs and the wicked will not escape. These birth pangs will get worse and worse till the last day. But this will not break the Word of God with Daniel 7 25 and Rev 13 5-7. The saints will be given into the hands of the antichrist for 3.5 years. And the last day of the birth pangs immediately after the tribulation will be known 7 biblical years before the event.
What happens when a person starts reading the book of Revelation. They see passages and Jesus coming in the clouds and on a horse. But again with a proper study of Daniel's 70th week there are problems. In the 2nd half Rev 13 5-7 occurs and the antichrist will have authority over saints from all nations for 42 months or 1260 days. And there is a trumpet in Matthew 24 27-31 and the angels gather His elect immediately after the tribulation. But this cannot break the Word of God. A person needs to figure out what day of Daniel's 70th week that trumpet will sound. This creates a huge problem. The book of Revelation only gives the antichrist authority to continue 42 months from the day he speaks great blasphemies. And Rev 1 7 says He comes on the clouds and all eyes will see Him. Meaning in Russia and China and Africa and North America and Japan and South America. Now it becomes supernatural when all the world can see the Lord and angels and heaven open. Zech 14 6-9 and Luke 17 23-37 along with Daniel 9 24 says it all ends on that day. All the wicked are destroyed on that day and that makes the bowl judgments supernatural after the entire world sees the Lord.
Jesus will not literally come as humans will never see him again (1 Timothy 6:16).
His PRESENCE in Kingdom power was to be signaled by signs. The first was:
(Matthew 24:7) “For nation will rise against nation and kingdom against kingdom,
Historians call it the Great War and World War 1 (1914-18).
That event started the last days for this system of things.
The so-called rapture is about the remaining few CHOSEN ones who are still alive being put to death and transformed to spirit form in a blink of an eye.
There will also be survivors of the coming war of change who will be the foundation of the New Earth (Revelation 7:9,10,14).
(Psalm 37:29) The righteous will possess the earth, And they will live forever on it.
The chosen few will be co-rulers with Jesus in God's heavenly Government (Revelation 5:9,10). Other righteous humans will live on earth as its subjects.
Hope this is helpful.
Did I miss his mentioning of Matthew 24:14? This is a key passage in this topic.
I have always been fascinated by eschatology and find the most troubling view is the dispensational one.
There are dispensations of eras. God has worked differently in these dispensations. It’s not hard to understand.
@@willpower6720 Absolutely but dispensational eschatology is very weak. The Rapture and 2nd coming of Jesus are the same event. Otherwise you have the 2nd Coming of Jesus and the 3rd.
Very interesting. Thank you.
He said a lot, but I'm left thinking - what exactly did he say?
Study more and you will understand. Preterism would be a start.
How will I know? We shall know Him for we shall be like Him! Its really not that difficult. Most theological expositions do just that, expose their own bias and then praise themselves about their great wisdom ! So grateful to the words of Jesus who said, He made known His plan understandable to little kids! No need of theologians, just His Holy Spirit.
Amen. C.S. Lewis said we would know more five minutes after we are in heaven than in a lifetime of speculating. You are right. Jesus said the Holy Spirit would teach us all things. Praise God!
God is not slow in fulfilling his promises to his people. And just like the promise of his first advent that came in the "fulness of time" in real space and in real time in the real and substantial incarnation, he promised to return in the same manner - Scripture teaches it as a remembered real promise by our Lord - and because of that testimony, it will happen in the its own "fullness of time." Upon that you can place your complete trust. These scholastics and academic types know not the Scriptures nor do they know the power of God. So take everything they say with a grain of salt.
And we must totally reject whatever they say which doesn't agree with, and is in contradiction to, holy scriptures.
@@JuliusKwedhionMarriage or your interpretation "of holy scripture "!
@@alexanderv7702 I agree, we must also reject your interpretation of holy scriptures if doesn't agree with, and is in contradiction to, holy scriptures. I have no qualms with you on that one.
I Thessalonians 4:16-17
For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of an archangel, and with the trumpet of God. And the dead in Christ will rise first. Then we who are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And thus we shall always be with the Lord.
""This same Jesus, who was taken up from you into heaven, will come back in the same way you have seen him go into heaven" (Acts 1:11) I'm very sorry to notice that, Prof. Wright (who I otherwise admire greatly) does not address this "will come back in the same way" phrase in Acts. Again, how are we to understand this 2,000 years later? I like the direction Prof. Wright is going when he emphasizes God's Justice, Peace, and New Creation both appearing and finally becoming fully manifest in Jesus "on earth, as it is in heaven". But where and how will we see Jesus Himself? Will He be mysteriously and ubiquitously present in and through God's New Creation in Christ? Will He be found as all people come to see, know, and Love Him: in and through and for "the least of these my brothers and sisters"? Will He literally come flying in and walk upon the earth as the exalted heavenly King now coming back to earth to vanquish injustice and set things right? (very hard to believe literally). The words of the angel in Acts strongly suggest the latter while my own heart, spirit, and imagination prefer the former two interpretations. As a preacher and pastor, may I please ask for further scholarly input, so that I can respond in faith, hope, and love, to the several inquiries, and opinions, I get from others on Jesus's "Second Coming". Thank you!
Confusion is not of God. I am deeply confused with all this divisiveness
Jesus is not coming down to transform people by his reign. He is bringing those who have died previously with him to meet believers still alive. The will be caught up together in the air and will descend together, not one group before the other, and will reign on the earth.
Could of summed up this whole 10 min video with I don't know.
LORD CHRIST JESUS TOLD US TO PREPARE
WHEN IS COMING...????
IS NOT OUR BUSINESS TO KNOW .
With all respect for TRUTH and KNOWLEDGE
Why are secular Bible scholars or Theologians always willing to accept the Bible in a metaphorical or allegorical sense, but never literal? The Bible is the Holy Spirit inspired Word of God written for the ages and not a rorschach test looking for hidden messages and meanings. Jesus used relevant stories of the day to relate and teach, but does the Holy Sprit need to do the same?
One thing we can point out is that God did not abandon the people at the time of exile. The people had long abandoned him by then! But He did not abandoned them. In fact during the exile Gods working hand is readily scene as working about their return and rebirth as a people and nation. The people of Jesus day were looking for a conquering messiah who would overthrow Rome and all others….
Interesting talk for sure. This topic has been discussed since the early centuries. It’s almost as if the Bible miraculous hides the conclusive answers. Jesus spoke in parables and said no one shall no the day or hour! The Lord has surely hidden these things for a reason. Especially from those who claim to be wise.
The great marriage … heaven and earth ….
Yes!
Wow! That is a lot of information! Thank you!
Didn't Jesus tell his disciples that only the father knows when the end will come. Jesus said neither he nor the angels know. But when Jesus returns EVERYONE on earth will know.
The actual end of the world practically is really when we ourselves die,
Excellent point. We often forget that. That's how it ends for the vast majority of humanity. However, it's not really the end because the soul/spirit has been separated from the body, and the body has to be reunited with the soul/spirit for us to be completely human once again. So there must be a moment when all of us are united with our bodies and face judgment.
so the world didn't exist before you were born? or, if you die as a believer should you're children's fate be sealed at that point, whether they're believers or not? or if the seeds of salvation that u've spread that bring fruit after you die should not longer count towards you're heavenly rewards?
I cannot explain why I believe I just do
It saddens me that obviously intelligent people waste their energy rehashing this claptrap. Also he didn’t answer the question.
Your Expert are you!?????....
@@andymanser1 The contraction is spelled "you're". And no, you don't have to be an expert to recognize hogwash.
@@andymanser1Your? Do you mean “you’re” or “you are a”? Please use English correctly.
The return of Jesus is the beginning of eternity, it will be at the last day, the day of resurrection and judgement of all men. The millenium to come is a myth. Jesus is telling us when he will come again:
Matt.28:20 Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you always, even unto the end of the world. Amen.
When I listen to NT Wright I realize a lot of what I learned about the Bible is wrong
He talks a lot but says very little imo. I have no idea what the fk he’s saying? ❤
Ah man. Very good.
The thing is: Jesus has been coming back for 2,000 years in dreams, revelations and visions.
I enjoyed the way he explained with his thick British accent. 😅
Hey, it’s NT “Right”!!
Theology student here. Is it me or did the English professor misspeak at 5:36 onwards? Doesn't the fall of jerusalem and creation not returning to primeval chaos show that Jeremiah WAS actually a false prophey? Surely not?
He said that Jeremiah prophesized that when Jerusalem would fall it would be like without form and void, like a primeval chaos. He then goes on to say that when Jerusalem fell, nobody considered Jeremiah as a false prophet because the earth had not gone back to chaos. But thay doesnt make sense?
My view is: According to what he said at the beginning, the prophecy of jerusalem falling, there would be chaos, but when it DID fall there was no chaos, therefore by logic, Jeremiah was a false prophet because the chaos he was prophesizing did not occur? Check out 5:36 maybe it was the jet lag! 🤔
I think you’re misunderstanding what Jeremiah is saying. With the fall of Jerusalem in 70AD, the nation of Israel was decimated. That doesn’t mean they literally became formless and void, but they might as well be formless and void. You have to read it with the understanding of how it was written THEN, not how we read literature TODAY. Ancient near eastern literature had ample hyperbolic language and didn’t have near the vocabulary we do today.
I love N.T. Wright's teaching, and he continues to help me understand Scripture.
In the light of this video, I have a question: What does it mean when in the gospels, the writers say that Jesus looked "up" to heaven and prayed to the Father. I just saw that (in Luke 11 or 12, I think).
Thank you!
Well, he looked upward simply because that's where his Father is and that's who he prays to.
I would point you to the postures of prayer described in the Psalms. Lifting your eyes is a common posture of praise and prayer.
As erudite as he is, not every topic is N. T. Wright's strength. As do many replacement theology advocates, he holds forth on eschatology without educating himself on the subject.
No lack of humility is this comment!
Honestly, still don’t know how he comes to those conclusions about the meaning of the darkening of the sun reddening of the moon verse in Isaiah (it also appears in Joel and Daniel), especially given to the way it’s presented in revelation. Maybe he’s right though, who knows
The meaning is just that, in my view.
I always say there will be 2 things that tell me (if we are still here) Christ is at the doorstep.
The sun going black and red moon, and the Chinese Eastern armies on the border of Israel.
If God darkens the sun, the sun reflected by the moon will automatically be dark red. And people don't think about it, but God can do that, and make any adjustments necessary in the universe.
@@lindajohnson4204 Everything goes pitch dark when he comes back.
@@lorenzor124 But if the sun is pitch black, you can't see the moon as blood. The words are open enough to interpret in terms of reality like that. Pitch black I'd an extreme possibility, but it does not seem to be what is meant. Besides, this is before Jesus returns in the clouds, right?
@@lindajohnson4204 You are correct. My mistake was to say the moon will be red. Verse 29 says clearly it will NOT show light. So, I think it is a pitch darkness. And what a grand & terrifying entrance to blast into our dimension as a messiah warrior/conqueror. The level of terror for his enemies will be like nothing ever before.
Like David's Tabernacle
YOU are the tent 🎪
The WORD is written on your hearts 🥰
The Spirit of God is in YOU 🎉
sABBAth with Daddy 24-7 ❤
A LIVING ARK OF THE COVENANT 🔥
A TEMPLE MADE WITHOUT HANDS ❤
Keep the Feasts of the Lord by the Spirit once for all time becoming a Temple Made without Hands 😮
I do not understand a word of what Professor Wright is saying.
..how long does it take for a beginning to end..?
He says the Jews in Jesus' time were looking for God's literal kingdom on earth, and that this is what Jesus was preaching about. What reason, then, is there to think that Jesus actually meant some sort of subtle changing of the world through the Gospel message rather than a literal, imminent kingdom? The other apocalyptic Jews, including John the Baptist, believed a literal kingdom was coming, so wouldn't the most reasonable conclusion be that Jesus thought this too?
The above question is kind of tongue in cheek. I know why people come up with these sorts of interpretations; it's because they are committed to the inerrancy to the Bible and thus have to somehow make all the different messages in the synoptic Gospels and John fit together and be right. But historical study shouldn't rely on faith claims.
Wow! you even mentioned the very verse that disproves this non traditional view, there is no curtain!
They watched him go up in the sky, we weren't making this up.
As a disciple of Christ, Christ will come for me either in skies or most likely when I die. Repent of your sins, believe in Christ, know He was raised from the dead, and I'll see yall in Heaven and the new Earth. Praise Christ🎉🎉🎉 ps stay in The Bible and prayer at least daily. Preferably at all times.
And to them that look for him; shall he appear a secound time without sin unto salvation.
This was written 2,000 years ago. The Apostle wasn't lying to the people.
Many saw his appearing.
Jesus said the Holy Ghost would show us all things that belong to Jesus.
..how long does a beginning end...?
I have a serious doubts about popular definition rapture...
““Watch out! Don’t let your hearts be dulled by carousing and drunkenness, and by the worries of this life. Don’t let that day catch you unaware, like a trap. For that day will come upon everyone living on the earth. Keep alert at all times. And pray that you might be strong enough to escape these coming horrors and stand before the Son of Man.””
Luke 21:34-36 NLT
Nothing is more useless then bible teacher.
Especially the present teachers who are into philosophies, theories and theologies of man, not based on the revelation of GOD but based on their own wisdom, and thereby they begin to scoff at scripture and anything that does not conform to their Doctoral theses and misguided scholarly conclusions.
Watch out, don't waste your life dreaming about a fictional nonsense. Heaven is behind a curtain, lols.
The words are clear in many passages. It is literal.
yep.the bible reads like the ravings of a madman.full of ridiculous claims and contradictions and falsehood.one thing that it does make clear is that there was a lack of institutions for epileptics and schizophrenics in Palestine at that time.
@@johnmichaelson9173 Oh but it is! It is right here and right where you are and 10 trillion light years away.
If one rightly divides scripture, this becomes simple to understand. Watch Justin Johnson at Grace Ambassador’s message on Rightly Dividing the Word of Truth.
I've never heard a biblical scholar talk so much and say so little. Really wordy ramble.
It is too bad you’re missing it
We started the last days at the Resurection. The last hours likely began when Israel was born a nation in one day, May 1948. With all the things going on today, we are probably in the last seconds.
Soon, Jesus will sound the trumpet, and all those who have repented and put their faith in Him will be raptured. We will meet Him in the air. The tribulation, the time of Jacob's trouble, will follow. At the conclusion of the tribulation, Jesus will come back to earth (second coming), and the church will be with Him in His coming. HE will establish His kingdom on earth and reign for a thousand years. Then the new heaven and new earth will replace the old heavens and earth, and He will reign and we will be with Him forever and ever, Amen come Lord Jesus.
....and, it is that straight forward.
@billdeuchler7030 wrote, "We started the last days at the Resurection. The last hours likely began when Israel was born a nation in one day, May 1948. With all the things going on today, we are probably in the last seconds. "
Date setting is probably not a good idea. Christian history is littered with the false prophecies of date-setters.
@billdeuchler7030 wrote, "HE will establish His kingdom on earth and reign for a thousand years."
Where can I find that in the New Testament?
Dan
@@BibleResearchTools Sorry for the extended delay. I'm not date setting and certainly we can't know the day or hour, but we can know the season. Regarding the millennial reign see Rev 19: 11-16, & 20:3-4, 7
@Together-Forever2820 wrote, "@BibleResearchTools Sorry for the extended delay. I'm not date setting and certainly we can't know the day or hour, but we can know the season.
How do we determine the season?
@Together-Forever2820 wrote, "Regarding the millennial reign see Rev 19: 11-16, & 20:3-4, 7"
I am familiar with a thousand-year reign in Rev 20, but the scripture says nothing about a millennial reign. A millennium is 1000 years. The term "a" or "the" thousand years in the scripture is open-ended.
Dan
This is a tough issue. So many Christians seem to think that Jesus is returning any day now. Honestly, I think 10,000 years is too early. It might even be more metaphorical than literal. Jesus's return might be spiritual rather than physical.
What scriptural support do you have for that idea?
@@ronoxley4138 Not much, but given that the apostles were strongly expecting Jesus to return seemingly in their lifetime, which didn't happen and indeed was 2000 years ago, an honest person has to start wondering. I also remember when Jesus was asked by his disciples about why the scribes say that Elijah must come first. (see Mk 9.11) Jesus replies that Elijah has already come (a reference to John the Baptist, I believe). In that case Jesus takes what was thought to be a literal interpretation of Elijah's appearance and explained how it was instead a figurative appearance. The same may be true for the 2nd coming: he has already come but people didn't recognize him. The point is that literal meanings are sometimes figurative.
@@slydog7131 true, there are figurative meanings in the statements Jesus gives about the end times. I’m also not a big “end time predictor). I do believe it will be a true appearance by Jesus to the world & not a metaphorical/figurative event.
@@ronoxley4138 Could be, For me there are mysteries concerning this. Certainly, there are many verses that refer to a physical appearance, such as Thessalonians 4.13-18. But those who think that we are in the last days will likely be disappointed.
@@slydog7131 why do you not think we’re in the last days (by that I don’t mean Jesus is coming back next week)?
Isaiah 13:4 talks about many kingdoms, coincidently in the portion that appears to be apocalyptic, while 13:17 mentions the Medes only (a single kingdom) when it's talking about the contemporary Babylon. we already have an understanding that many end-of-days prophecies also had a contemporary aspect to them. How else would the priests know to include in scriptures prophecies of end-days. The short-term fulfillment was the proof that the prophet was of God. also, why go to Isaiah to get the definition of the Sun, Moon, and Stars, why not go to when they were first introduced in Genesis 1? where is Babylon in Gen 1? sorry, but this is nonsense.
The skeptical side of me wants to say that Inaugurated Eschatology is a patchwork that tries to placate and smooth over the inconsistencies in the new testament, one side saying that Jesus definitely thought that he was going to bring about God's kingdom ("and this is what it looks like", as Bishop Wright has put it before) and that his death would basically start "the end of the world" for lack of a better word, and that his apostles would all be alive to see the great judgement. on the other side are texts like Pauls later letters (Philippians, Ephesians, ect) and the Johannine corpus seem to imply that the church very early on stopped looking for "the big day" to be RIGHT right at the door, and focused more on the afterlife and a soon but not imminent coming. Between the "prepper" Consistent eschatology and the more moderate/later Realized eschatology of doing good in the now, I guess the Inaugurated view gives Christians the mandate to both prepare ourselves for what's coming and making right now more like what we believe is to come, since it's already here with us.
TL;DR, Between something like Mark, Revelation or 1 Thessalonians with it's rushed tone and doomsday outlook and the more heaven-minded views of Ephesians or the First Letter of John, you have the Gospels of Matthew and Luke-Acts, especially in Matthew that expands Mark's (critics say, posthumous or concurrent) description of the Sack of Jerusalem and God's final judgement with a moral passage on the Judgement of the Sheep and the Goats, where the way the church acts and treats people right now will have an effect on how we spend the rest of our lives when, like paul says, "the perfect comes"
This man has it right. It is an inner reality that we experience in the here and now. Jesus returned in the Spirit on the day of Pentecost and that is when the prophecy about the moon turning to blood was fulfilled. Peter said that in his discourse to those that where present.
And on my servants and on my handmaidens I will pour out in those days of my Spirit; and they shall prophesy: And I will shew wonders in heaven above, And signs in the earth beneath; Blood, and fire, and vapour of smoke: The sun shall be turned into darkness, And the moon into blood, Before that great and notable Day of the Lord come: And it shall come to pass, that whosoever shall call on the name of the Lord shall be saved.
Acts 2:18-21
And when he was demanded of the Pharisees, when the kingdom of God should come, he answered them and said, The kingdom of God cometh not with observation: neither shall they say, Lo here! or, lo there! for, behold, the kingdom of God is within you.
Luke 17:20,21
For the Son of man shall come in the glory of his Father with his angels; and then he shall reward every man according to his works. Verily I say unto you, There be some standing here, which shall not taste of death, till they see the Son of man coming in his kingdom.
Matthew 28:27,28
He that hath my commandments, and keepeth them, he it is that loveth me: and he that loveth me shall be loved of my Father, and I will love him, and will manifest myself to him.
John 14:21 KJV
Heaven is within us, it is a spiritual kingdom not one that is physical. The hope is that one day all people will be converted and come to union with God when heaven and earth are one. We can become of that reality now. Where the veil is lifted and God is manifest within his children.
when he shall come to be glorified in his saints, and to be admired in all them that believe (because our testimony among you was believed) in that day.
2 Thessalonians 1:10 KJV
I am reminded of the billboards that used to dot the interstates in NC at least, one of which said something to the effect: “why do you doubt my existence. I don’t doubt yours”, IIRC. Maybe his answer in this case would be: “why do you need to know”? 😏
I am amazed that intelligent people in the 21st century can still believe in fairy tales.
Like the ones who believe they are smart enough to decide how the world was made?
Jesus christ , will return when he ready, and u will know when he is on earth 🌎!
Man, please use good English (when He IS ready), and not “u” for you
He always comes and goes
Interesting that Tom Wright can clearly see biblical metaphors as in the book of Mark but cannot see it in how some people see heaven (God’s space) being above. (Comments about Australia and NZ)
It’s almost characterising people as believers in a flat earth rather than as a way of understanding heaven through metaphor: remembering that metaphor always stands for something real.
Yes Jesus fulfils the law and is the new temple - built up in 3 days. I think there is still room to say that God did not ‘un-choose His people notwithstanding that we gentiles were grafted onto the Jewish vine.
Everything Jesus supposedly said is out of the gospels, written long after he was gone. At a time when there were no ways of actually recording what was happening, with almost all people being analphabets. It is just hearsay. And this guy take those seriously. Pityful.
Sounds like you got it all figured out. Congratulations! 🎉🎉🎉