2021 KTM & Husqvarna WP AER Suspension/bike Test
ฝัง
- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 20 พ.ย. 2024
- We got an inside look at the new WP Forks and the 2021 350. If your thinking of a 2021 KTM or Husqvarna this video could help you out.
Jay Clark/Dirt Bike TV has been around the Dirt Bike industry for thirty years and is always looking to learn and help other do so as well. Give a follow or drop a email if you have any questions or comments. Thanks for watching!
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#KTM #Husqvarna #Dirtbike
2021 150sx , 149lb vet
Love the suspension on this bike! My settings are
Forks 111 psi, comp/rebound 14/7
Shock 13/13 , hs 1&1/4, sag 35/95
Keihin 38 + JD + mototassinari
Ever considered adding STIC metering rod ?
The 2021 forks are amazing. You can really feel how smooth they are with the changes. I actually like them better than spring forks now. The new SKF seals are a nice touch.
They’re fucking horrid
Yeah I don't agree
Best air fork ever made. very easy to live with and unrealized bottoming resistance. AMAZING...just like you said.
I am glad KTM/Husky have kept their commitment to making air forks work well. They are lighter and more adjustable, which is great if they can work out the disadvantages. I think the AER forks on my 2018 XC aren't bad, but I run a low pressure in my front tire with tubliss to smooth out that first little bit of travel, which perhaps has downsides.
Started watching this channel to learn how to change my own tires. After seeing several other guys do it I concluded Jay was the best and I do it like he does. Now I'm a fan of his stuff because he gets into more detail and has practical information. This video is a good example. The detail on the mid-valve changes are great. I have an MX-Tech mid-valve on my 250 xcf and it uses a similar "trampoline" concept. It allows for adjustable float and lots of tuning options. Glad to see the concept validated by WP. Keep up the good work Jay!
Glad you like and glad the tire tips are helping.
yes, we are super lucky to rub elbows with Jay via TH-cam, Im glad he shares his knowledge with us!
The 21 fork and shock is very nice. Best yet! I added 10cc fork oil and 10psi nitrogen. I was able to back out clickers and 10.2 to 9.8ibar. Oil firmed up the suspension without having so much of the AER feel. This also made the bike more planted to ground. Then I switched to Tech Touch KYB fork I’m not 100% sold, still need to get them dialed. Yes air is more tune ability but I don’t like checking air
*KTM/Husky* is the way to go - steel frame so much less 'shock/vibration' than the aluminum frames and they are innovating constantly.
, innovating new reliability costs for sure , have you read anything issue wise thats not a promotional piece like this. Its a big book lots of chapters , innovating:)
Yes, I hope Yamaha and Honda admit their mistake and go back to steel/chromo frames...as an aircraft engineer I still just cannot get my head around alu frames on dirt bikes...the cyclical stress fracture potential is always for us long term bike holders and there and obviously zero weight saving. I will continue to buy from the KTM, Beta or Sherco factories!!
I really like my 2020 AER forks on 300 XC, they work really well on desert whoops with good resistance to bottoming, they do seem slightly harsh on square edge and really benefit from being bled before each ride.
Great breakdown. He's pretty good at explaining all the info in a way we can understand.
Rick Carle Almost understand lol🤔
Interesting to see that WP is finally learning from all of the mountain bike fork companies and increasing their negative chamber size and balance port length. Obvious next steps in the development of this fork will be either internal or external positive chamber volume adjustment and a substantially larger piston. Never going to get as smooth of action at 150+ psi as you can at ~40, which is definitely achievable.
Agreed. I've fitted a vorsprung secus to my fox36 mtb forks. Complete game changer
Love my air fork and love that I can adjust pressure depending on where I'm riding. Good to see they are still improving an already good fork.
How you decide whether to adjust pressure for the terrain, vs. damping? I have never found a straight answer on this.
Say you're bottoming out. You could increase compression damping, or air pressure. Which is the right way?
@@youtubeaccount9058 I mostly ride tight single track so I keep my settings on the softer side however when I know I'm going to be riding more open desert I add between 5 and 10 pounds. Nothing too drastic.
joseph carle That’s very drastic; 2 pounds is equivalent of a spring rate! There’s no way you’re not creating an imbalance front to rear of the bike. You’d have to do something as drastic to the rear spring rate to keep the bike balanced. The only reasons riders aren’t noticing adverse effects of such drastic spring rate changes are due to lack of experience and less sensitivity at slower trail speeds. The reason you feel more control at higher speeds with more air pressure is because correct spring rates are more critical to control and balance as per your rider weight at higher speeds. Different terrain and speeds may require major damping changes, but spring rate is based on rider weight and shouldn’t be confused with damping control totally.
TH-cam Account Air pressure is equivalent to spring rate. I’ve found that you can’t change more than a spring rate and a half from fast terrain to slow without causing an imbalance from front to rear of the bike. Damping is how fast you need the suspension to move for your type of riding, while spring rate (air pressure) suspenses you (rider weight), which doesn’t change from track to trail. The manual will give a rider weight range the bike comes set with including a spring rate for the rear and air pressure recommendation for forks. Every 2 LBs is about a spring rate, so stick close to the recommended air pressure in the manual if you’re in range of stock settings because that will also balance the bike with the stock shock spring for your rider weight. If you need to change shock spring, just adjust fork air pressure every 2 lbs as per spring rate change up or down.
@@Andy-wo9bm what is considered one spring rate for a rear spring? I went from stock 4.0kg to a 5.0kg rear spring. How many rates extra is that? Is each rate .2kg? Thus 4.2, 4.4 ,4.6, 4.8, 5.0? So should I add 10lbs psi to the front is 2lb is one rate?
This would of been the perfect time to ask this question:
At what point should the forks/shock be re-valved due to increasing/decreasing air pressure in the forks and shock spring rates?
Great video and I have to thank WP for taking the time to explain the new changes. HOWEVER---- WP will never be thought of as making a great product as long as they continue to come out with the FINAL GOOD WORKING FORK 4 years after the intro. Everybody who bought in to the AER early in the development stage is stuck with a poor or middle of the road fork that does something bad. I hate to say it because its been said some many times BUT the KYB's have been the best they could be for years and they JUST WORK. FYI- I own a 250 YZX, a 150 SX and have just purchased a 2021 XC-which I hope good. Thank for the opportunity to voice my opinions. SA
To be fair even though it's improved in four years, when it came out it was the best air fork at the time. None of the other manufacturers could make it work and just gave up.
@@motogp1gprix1 You are right about that. My point being is that my 150sx is a 2nd year aer fork and it turns rotten after a long ride so I need to spend money on it. My 250xc is actually pretty good and I am satisfied. WISH WP HAD DONE THE RELATIVEOY LOW COST MODS THAT MADE THE 2021 BIKE GOOD, EARLY ON ! They never come out with the best right away, the tuners make
tons of money straitening out early versions of their suspension and i'm not talking about valving changes here, I,m talking about design short cuts.
Kyb have made plenty of horrid spring forks over the years, the SSS is the end of a very long line of evolution
I've been impressed with the AER forks on my sons 50SX. Personally I use Ohlins TTX cartridges with springs on Showa.
Great vid - can you specify what the differences are in the rear shock of a 2021 TC125 and a 2021 SX125? Is it valving that is different or is it the length, etc? Can you use the 2020 shock in a 2021 bike or use the 2021 linkage in a 2020 bike?
Older post. But what I’m curious with, is where to start on air pressure. I’m 145 pounds. The 10.5 bar is FAR to high. The recommended air pressure for my weight makes the fork sag so low in the stroke. Makes me wonder if that’s going to make the fork too harsh. Where is a good place to start on air pressure?
Coming off a 17 350sxf to a 21 I can tell you I absolutely love the xact pro. I found a setting right away, it's really good! It took me forever to find a setting on my 17 but I got it pretty good aswell.
perfect! and i totally agree. went from the 17 husky revalved by Enzo to a new 21 husky. AMAZING!
Very nice and informative video. I'm on 19 300 and 500 with the XPlor Pro/Traxx components. Truly unbelievable compared to stock. On my previous bike I had the AER (250XCF) and it wasn't bad. It did take a lot of tinkering. Extremely nice to see KTM not only continue to improve but to be involved in ways like this. You just don't see this from ANY other MFG. Thanks Again!
Good stuff!
Considering the XPlor pro 6500 inserts. How do you like them?
Just got a new xc. It feels like I’m riding on air! Oh I am. Way smoother than my old Kawasaki spring SFF forks.
Right on
THIS is the kind of detailed explanation of changes i love to see. Thank you! Those changes definitely make sense. I've been saying for a long time that the AER48 benefits from a decent amount of float in the midvalve compression stack to let the fork move more freely under low velocity situations, while having a stiff stack that ramps up damping where its needed. Looks like WP finally decided to do that in their base setting now.
Glad it was helpful!
bwhaskell
It's actually the opposite. Stiffer for hold up & the trampoline spring gives way for higher shaft speed hits.
I wish they had an option for a production version of the cone valve forks. Not the pro component's stuff, but just similar internals of what the cone valve forks provide. Nice to see them improve the aer technology though
You video's are so great, the way you dig in to the detail and at the same time lift it up with summary or explaining it another way so we get a broader perspective is super. Keep up the great work. This specific video I found after buying my first KTM 450 SXF 2020 and I seen some other shoot out video and test video on 2021, 2020 where the talked a lot about the improvement on the fork on 2021 and forward. Then I want to investigate if i could upgrade my fork to a 2021 +, but that does not seems to be that easy. Perhaps you could give you point of view on that question.
#mxfitness is my thing buy the way, but until now, I only do my video and stuff in Danish ;-)
im having so many issues with my husky 2018 air fork its so hard to get them plush but also not bottoming out all the time !
Same
Craig Decker at Enzo made mine work like magic.
When did Elton John start working on suspension?
I'll be curious to hear what you think of these forks when you eventually offroad test them. I don't know if it is just me, but you could see the WP tech squirm a little when you started talking about offroad applications. I think WP knows these forks are junk when it comes to 2nd - 4th gear rocks
I have gone back and forth a lot with KYB conversion and Cone Valve and well set up AER is pretty dang good.
@@dirtbiketv1 I've been trying to get mine to work for 2 years.... finally throwing in the towel and doing a KYB conversion next week. I will concede that Aer's can be pretty decent for Moto or GP style applications. But I can't seem to get them to work for Johnson Valley NHHA type terrain or race-pace sprint enduro stuff. FWIW, the ONLY terrain I have problems with AER forks is the softball and bowling ball type rocks that you mentioned. The forks just can't settle and absorb those types of rocks well. Big, flat granite style rocks (San Diego/ Tecate/ Cahuilla area) aren't a big deal at all - the forks are able to absorb the first big impact when you hit the granite slabs and roll over it. Its those damn short, consecutive impacts which affect the top 1/3 of the travel that are going to inevitably cost me $1800 haha! Not to mention the inconsistencies of air pressures as the forks warm up over the course of a 100 mile race or long day on the trail.
On paper, I do think AER forks are a winner for KTM because they can be tuned for a WIDE variety of riders; most of which don't race or have picky tastes for that matter. Combine that with weight savings on the spec sheet and cost savings on their assembly lines..... these AER forks aren't going anywhere soon
@@simplejackenduro Good points and I do get it--
Hey Simple Jack Enduro Let me clear something up in regards the offroad applications. It's not a secret that MX settings are not optimized for offload and that was what you interpreted as squirming by the WP tech (me). The 2021 offroad models have just been released and i don't think any magazines even have bikes yet. This new hardware can be configured in ways that are more applicable for offroad and we actually achieved even better results with those models during development and testing. For the offroad models we are now actually using a lift height or float type midvalve setting. This is a big improvement over our previous, very limited, checkplate approach.
Wow great tech service - replying on your own time on a holiday :-) Thanks
So basically WP XACT forks with AER technology have damping functions on the right side and air on the left, i understand the left side(air side) but is the damping side like coil fork or is it just damper, spring, oil or is it damper and air or something?
Email Jay directly with any questions! Contact info in About Tab
lenghty video, but i watched all of it, great informative stuff, since i own a 2020.
These changes look as if they work extremely similarly to the race tech gold valve. I wonder if this is why he said on multiple occasions that this is not new technology.
Good info! Thanks
With the spring conversions, on the new Husky’s being lower, does the spring conversions maintain that lowered height?
And is there a standout best pick for the spring conversions?
Its so hard to say -- we have had good ones from RT and FC -- for the height -- I dont think it would be the 2021 height
@@dirtbiketv1 Thanks for the reply.
Thank you for the in depth information Jay!
Good information and insights.
Fantastic video Jay and Leigh great insights. I love the versatily of the AER system on my 2017 TX300.
Glad you enjoyed it!
Richard Smith any setting tips? Just got a 2021 TX300 and I am trying to get used to AER shocks not there yet. (Desert single track mostly)
@@xPEACExTSM Have you dropped the Air pressure and tested it on the trail? Make sure to bleed them before you got out and then test PSI - -I would say start at 155 and go down in 5PSI at a time--
xPEACEx I have a 2021 TX300 and weigh 170 lbs. I have found 2 fork setups that work well for me. My favorite for mountain trail/single track is 118 psi, 18 comp, 24 rebound. This setup picks up the roots and sharp edged rocks very well and I can use the whole fork stroke. I have lightly bottomed this setup once catching some air off a burm and landing into an uphill slope. My firm setup for higher speed desert riding is 124 psi, 21 comp, 27 rebound. This setup also picks up the roots and sharp edged rocks well, but is firmer through the rest of the stroke and I have never bottomed this setup.
Did they go down 10mm on the two strokes as well? Including the tc 125?
Yes-- All of the 2021 MX bikes got the change- the off road ones did not not go lower.
Awesome long video I really liked it
Hola como estan? una pregunta se puede actualizar husky 250 2019aer 48 a xact?? probe ktm sxf 250 2021 de un amigo y me encanto.
21 KTM is the best suspension on the market ever period. If you want to spend 7500$ on A kit go for it
Yamahas Kayaba SSS destroys KTMs suspension sadly
Excellent detail. Appreciate it.
I haven’t heard anything about using nitrogen instead of air. It seem that the stability of nitro would be an advantage.
You just got me thinking with that idea. I think you are on to something there. It certainly can't hurt, I'm going to give it a try.
@@motogp1gprix1 let me know how it goes. Seems like a no brainer
@@motogp1gprix1 did you ever try it?
@@Fire_at_Wil no, I should though.
Good info thanks!
The air fork has been around for years now and they still have trouble with them i think its time throw the idea in the bin they suck so badly that other suspension company are profiting buy making replacement kits to go back to a oil set up
I have an older 2017 WP air fork. Almost 500 hours on the bike. My favorite fork ever. Even compared against KYB. Super reliable, easy to service, and excellent quality (SKF seals are the only seals I'll ever run)
@@CW-up7xv thats because your not fast enough to push the forks to breaking point a set of chinese ace suspension would do you fine to hahahaha
@@mxdocumentarytvmxdocumenta2221 👍
@@mxdocumentarytvmxdocumenta2221 I ride my 18 Ktm sometimes slow and technical and some times redlining at cross country speeds and I have to say you shouldn’t blame the the bike for you obvious lack of skills it may be Chinese ace suspension but it’s still a bike I can put seat time on oh and by the way I messed with the clickers for the first time a week ago (and I’ve owned the bike for three years) that’s how satisfied I was with them but in saying that if they were in stock settings still to this day it wouldn’t really bother me so in my opinion the Suspension out of the crate is acceptable
I have a 2020 sxf250 and the basic Bar pressure for the forks is at 10,4 Bar. It feels waaaaaaay to hard, i am ended up at 8,8Bar. Someone has the same experience?
That seems like a huge difference and way too low. I would come up some and see about adjusting clickers also make sure to bleed air.
Can they retrofit the 19 300xc
With the 21 internals?
I think too costly to update all the internals--
Where's Lee from? Sounds South African.
Yes - they spell it Leigh --
@@dirtbiketv1 Cool thanks, over here we have both spellings of the name and they sound the same. The Leigh spelling is also used for females.
Accent sounded very Belgian to me.
Thanks for the info Jay!
On a 2020 FX 350 and I’ve never felt something so nervous and unpredictable, I’d love any pointers on setting up the 2020 XACT fork - pretty sure this thing can never settle into its travel bike is constantly in chopper mode until you smash a corner
185 lbs
145psi
LSC - 17 out
Rebound - 14 out
There’s almost no info on this fork other then everyone switches to a coil or the “xact pro”
I have the same forks, the wp aer 48 forks. I replaced the the fork seals on my right fork and after I was done I noticed its a lot easier to compress the fork together then it is on the left side. Is this how it’s suppose to be?
Yeah man. Just the left fork is the air chamber. I know this is old. I called WP directly and had them explain to me how exactly that works. Because logic tells me that’s going to create inconsistency. WP basically said because the forks are tied together. One can’t move without the other. It doesn’t create an imbalance. The air pressure is just your spring. Don’t over think it. Just adjust it to your weight. WP said to start a full PSI lower for 145 pound rider. At 9.5 BAR
Whats with the ,"Straight away"? Lol, you from England bloke?
I'm going to convert my aer 48 to KYB screw the air fork
Dude your throwing thousands of dollars at something that won’t improve your riding… seat time, fuel and tyres will
Ktm are being stuborn not listening the market about air forks but maybe they're doing it for a reason. They believe in the product.
Meanwhile we all have to convert the forks
They own the factory
I have never liked air suspension. Hated it when mountain bikes all went to air. I recently converted my mountain bike to coil at both ends, and it is so much better in the rocks. I will retire soon, and traveling in a toy hauler with a new bike. No way will it have an air fork either.
Yeah, but are the xact or xplor!?! Bwahaha!!
No
SHOWA more better than WP
What a load of bullshit.Still has not fixed the two biggest problems of the aer fork.Maybe in 10 years they will learn?
what is the 2 biggest issues?
They did makes some good changes but better then the SSS fork I dont know about that. I dont fully agree with the comments that were said about the adjustability being better for the vet class. Its a quicker adjustment and that isn't always better. I am in the 30 vet expert class and I race a 2019 yz450fx and when I first got it the front end was a bit stiff for desert and moto. But the thing I looked at was my weight im a 170lbs to 180lbs rider depending on what gear I'm riding in, so im a little on the light side. So what I did was dropped to a 2.5 wt fork oil and then went through setting up my compression and rebound. And now its perfect. And by going to the lighter fork oil it gave me more adjustment in the fork.