Thanks for all your videos. Checked sag on my gen1 Mille and all makes sense now - original sachs/showa parts, am 200lb kitted and have only 27mm front and 30mm (15+15) rear. Under hard breaking I still had more than a thumbs width of travel left, so clearly I need to wind back the pre-load and assuming the shock is ball-park already, I'll aim for 33mm front as a start point and hopefully see better handling. Hope this will be a good base balance test for my first trackday on it soon too with slightly pointed stance(?) I was quite surprised the total sag was that little given it's a 17 yr old bike and that the springs appear to be stiff enough afterall. But static rear sag of 15mm in isolation seems outside the recommended range
How about a slight (5mm) tilt to the forward for aggressive street riding? Was thinking 40mm on the forks and 35mm on the shock. My bike is very rear biased anyway (the MT-10) and i'm thinking this could bring some positive changes to the handling. As usual, thanks for your awesome videos!
Sorry to bother Dave. I have a 2015 Xjr1300 (new shape) do you know what the set up should be on it. I am finding the rear is way to hard and have no sag on it at all. I sorted out my fz1 and wife’s fz8 from your clips. But with the xjr being twin shocks wondered is there any difference to doing it. When I stand the bike up right and lift the back end like you do in your clips, I have no play/ sag at all it’s just solid at back end. Thanks mate
No difference with one shock, two shocks etc. All the same process for static sag and rider sag. Twin shock require settings to be identical as per two forks. If there is no static sag, how much travel are you using? If barely half, reduce the preload until you get 10-12mm of static and ride. Note that rebound being too fast can and will take away static sag, so make sure the shocks pass the rebound test. Use the video for reference
Thank you Dave will give it a go. the bike is in factory setting at the rear but is way to hard. I have hit dips in the road and have been bounced out of the seat buy 6" to 10 10" so gussing with have to slacken the spring off first
forgot to ask Dave I always change my shocks to Nitron on all my bikes (i get them trade) and i love the Nitron rear shocks. The xjr has Ohlins on as standard. I am guess these are still a budget shock and Ohlins have put there name to it in a deal with Yamaha ie made them a cheap shock. I am thinking of changing the factory Ohlins to Nitron . What do you think mate@@catalystreactionsbw
@@MrEnglishman6969 As you have a preference, you might want to honor that. For the price - what would it cost to revalve and respring the Ohlins to your needs? 50-60% of the cost of a Nitron?
what numbers do you recommend on a mt09 2022? preferably commuting and curves. And the psi on front and rear? I.m wheight 85kg. Thank you , hug from Portugal.
35-40mm front and 30-35mm rear. This is rider and static sag combined. See how much fork and shock travel you use and then adjust preload accordingly to get to 80% of total travel available.
so, if I understand this correctly, for street riding sag, front and rear need to be same sag? say front is 33mm, so rear have to be 33mm as well? currently my setting is 33mm or 1/3 of front suspension travel, and 42mm or 1/3 of rear travel..so I guess I've set it up wrongly at the first place..
To start with a flat bike that is level is by far the best way to then move forward and discover/test for the settings you need for your bike based on how you ride. There is no such thing as wrong. Your set up is what it is, now reverse the set up so the front is much softer than the rear. Did you prefer that? Then make the bike level. Out of these three configurations, which one made you smile, let you enjoy the bike more? Then explore that settings range via the front first, then the rear.
thanks for the reply..appreciate it. so I've retuned it today, and set it up 35mm front and 33mm rear, and I can tell straightaway, I like this setup than previous one, more nimble.. one thing though, when we changing the pre-load, do we need to do any adjustment to the damping forces? I feel that during long sweep cornering, feels like the rear end wants to, er 'run wide/oversteer'? do I need to increase rebound damping to compensate for the increased pre-load?
Once you set preload you reset rebound. Put compression in the middle of the total range and work inwards slowly. Use deceleration (no brakes) and up to 50% throttle on corner exits to find the right setting.
Dave Moss Tuning It turns good for sport bikes. For older Touring bikes there is no front fork setting. For example the Honda ST1100 , only the rear shock can be set, well nothing much to play with. With 10w fork oil still feels like driving old Mercedes 200D. It's actually the most comfortable Touring bike even now after 27 years. Ok except Honda Goldwing 😁
I have a question. I have an SV 650 2017 model and the front end doesn't have any ajustment. Soo should I adjust the back end accordingly to the front end sag or just adjust normaly for the street with those 30-40mm?
Hey Dave, have to see enough of the new Dunlop Q3+ to form an opinion compared to the Q3? Read your "Dunlop Q3 track day tire initial evaluation", and was wondering if the pressures mentioned there transfer to the new tires. Also, looking for a front wheel chock like you use in your videos. What do you recommend?
Pressures were appropriate that day so +/- 2-4 psi would be the range I would start with and in this case I would start on the high side and work my way down. On the road you should see 4psi gain cold to hot and you can always use the palm of your hand or an infra red tool to assess temps.
Hi Dave! Is it better to setup Sag to my bike while the damping valves (Reb and Com) be fully open or with recommended settings from the manufacturer? Öhlins FKS504 cartridge and YA535 Shock on a Yamaha FJ09. Thanks in advance!
You can do it whatever way you want. It is easier to do it with compression and rebound fully open on the forks and shock, or you can leave them at the Ohlins recommended setting.
Any recommendation on a 2015 Fj09? With no preload dialed in I get very little sag in the front but as soon as I touch the front brake the fork bottoms out. I have the preload maxed out now and rebound at 7 clicks in but can still bottom the fork out under emergency braking. The rear is at two clicks from soft on preload and 1.25 in on the rebound. Sag is 1.5 in the rear. Bike has 5000 miles on it now. Bought new 1 year ago.
Add thicker fork oil. I have run 15w for very aggressive riders with an air gap of 110mm as they could not afford springs and new valving. That also helps create a very effective "air spring" component to assist in not bottoming out. th-cam.com/video/EiZY0lcqeR8/w-d-xo.html
If you are short, softening spring tension will bring the bike closer to the ground and help you get one or more of both feet on the ground. Stability is critical, so we need that first. If you are not hitting foot pegs on the ground, you have enough clearance. At that point it is critical to get your motorcycle balanced via rebound damping if you have it.
Dave your info is always spot on had a tire pressure question I have a 88 katana 600 w/ a 750 motor w/ 88 gsxr wheels 90 gsxr fork and a fox shock running Metzeler sportec M7 RR what air pressures would be ideal for sport riding I have them at 33 front and 36 rear psi thanks again all your work is greatly appreciated!
The Katana is not a light bike and the M7RR is a soft carcass tire. I'd be working a range of 38-34 rear and 36-40 front especially if you have stock suspension as there will be a lot of weight transfer.
Hello. Want to ask you all the questions? I bought a group of zx10r Showa BFF, and I need detailed maintenance BFF there is no more nitrogen on it. How much nitrogen do I need to add? Thank you
Thank you, You are so good, teacher Excuse me,I am sorry to ask you again I bought a set of BFF, is a scrap pieces, and now is broken down maintenance, I intend to transplant to the CBR1000rr sc57 above, but found a gas gone, how do I detect BFF is normal?
I do not know if you can transplant CBR internals into the BFF but if you have scrap pieces you can compare pistons measurements and see if they are the same as the ones you have. If so, then you need to look at port design to assess flow characteristics.
So simple and so important. Thank you Dave. You are the best.
I have never heard it explained that way thanks Dave.
every time i have a question Dave answers it without i even ask. thank you Dave this one will go to the book too
Thanks for all your videos. Checked sag on my gen1 Mille and all makes sense now - original sachs/showa parts, am 200lb kitted and have only 27mm front and 30mm (15+15) rear. Under hard breaking I still had more than a thumbs width of travel left, so clearly I need to wind back the pre-load and assuming the shock is ball-park already, I'll aim for 33mm front as a start point and hopefully see better handling. Hope this will be a good base balance test for my first trackday on it soon too with slightly pointed stance(?) I was quite surprised the total sag was that little given it's a 17 yr old bike and that the springs appear to be stiff enough afterall. But static rear sag of 15mm in isolation seems outside the recommended range
Assess fork and shock travel used at the track day and adjust accordingly. Hope you have fun!
great to follow you and learn.. got more speed on the tracks thanks to you. best regard from Denmark
Thank you for being willing to learn and make your motorcycle a much better experience!
Dave Moss Tuning for sure l have seen what you have done for Dillon my friend from New Zealand
So, with chopper, it's even more important to "trail brake" then with sportbike???
Probably more important to wear your pirate gear.
TQ Mr Moss
How about a slight (5mm) tilt to the forward for aggressive street riding? Was thinking 40mm on the forks and 35mm on the shock. My bike is very rear biased anyway (the MT-10) and i'm thinking this could bring some positive changes to the handling. As usual, thanks for your awesome videos!
I have an MT-10. Drop the front end by 5-8mm to put more weight on the front. Helped mine tremendously.
Cheers! You never mentioned you have it! Can we expect a video anytime soon?
When I get back to NZ yes.
Sorry to bother Dave. I have a 2015 Xjr1300 (new shape) do you know what the set up should be on it. I am finding the rear is way to hard and have no sag on it at all. I sorted out my fz1 and wife’s fz8 from your clips. But with the xjr being twin shocks wondered is there any difference to doing it. When I stand the bike up right and lift the back end like you do in your clips, I have no play/ sag at all it’s just solid at back end. Thanks mate
No difference with one shock, two shocks etc. All the same process for static sag and rider sag. Twin shock require settings to be identical as per two forks. If there is no static sag, how much travel are you using? If barely half, reduce the preload until you get 10-12mm of static and ride. Note that rebound being too fast can and will take away static sag, so make sure the shocks pass the rebound test. Use the video for reference
Thank you Dave will give it a go. the bike is in factory setting at the rear but is way to hard. I have hit dips in the road and have been bounced out of the seat buy 6" to 10 10" so gussing with have to slacken the spring off first
forgot to ask Dave I always change my shocks to Nitron on all my bikes (i get them trade) and i love the Nitron rear shocks. The xjr has Ohlins on as standard. I am guess these are still a budget shock and Ohlins have put there name to it in a deal with Yamaha ie made them a cheap shock. I am thinking of changing the factory Ohlins to Nitron . What do you think mate@@catalystreactionsbw
@@MrEnglishman6969 As you have a preference, you might want to honor that. For the price - what would it cost to revalve and respring the Ohlins to your needs? 50-60% of the cost of a Nitron?
@@MrEnglishman6969 Exactly - get the preload so shock and forks reach 80% of travel.
Dave. The Yamaha tracer 900 FJ09 gets bad press for crap suspension. How would you look at sorting that and setting it up in the UK? Cheers
davemosstuning.com/?s=Tracer+Gt is everything I have done to mine from day 1. The rear shock must be replaced in due course.
Dave please do a video on body positioning!!
Road, track or race and what level of aggressiveness? Some additional information would be very helpful. Thanks
Mostly mid-aggressive street riding!
Thank you.
what numbers do you recommend on a mt09 2022? preferably commuting and curves. And the psi on front and rear? I.m wheight 85kg. Thank you , hug from Portugal.
35-40mm front and 30-35mm rear. This is rider and static sag combined. See how much fork and shock travel you use and then adjust preload accordingly to get to 80% of total travel available.
so, if I understand this correctly, for street riding sag, front and rear need to be same sag? say front is 33mm, so rear have to be 33mm as well?
currently my setting is 33mm or 1/3 of front suspension travel, and 42mm or 1/3 of rear travel..so I guess I've set it up wrongly at the first place..
To start with a flat bike that is level is by far the best way to then move forward and discover/test for the settings you need for your bike based on how you ride. There is no such thing as wrong. Your set up is what it is, now reverse the set up so the front is much softer than the rear. Did you prefer that? Then make the bike level. Out of these three configurations, which one made you smile, let you enjoy the bike more? Then explore that settings range via the front first, then the rear.
thanks for the reply..appreciate it.
so I've retuned it today, and set it up 35mm front and 33mm rear, and I can tell straightaway, I like this setup than previous one, more nimble..
one thing though, when we changing the pre-load, do we need to do any adjustment to the damping forces? I feel that during long sweep cornering, feels like the rear end wants to, er 'run wide/oversteer'? do I need to increase rebound damping to compensate for the increased pre-load?
Once you set preload you reset rebound. Put compression in the middle of the total range and work inwards slowly. Use deceleration (no brakes) and up to 50% throttle on corner exits to find the right setting.
Dave Moss Tuning It turns good for sport bikes. For older Touring bikes there is no front fork setting. For example the Honda ST1100 , only the rear shock can be set, well nothing much to play with. With 10w fork oil still feels like driving old Mercedes 200D. It's actually the most comfortable Touring bike even now after 27 years. Ok except Honda Goldwing 😁
I have a question. I have an SV 650 2017 model and the front end doesn't have any ajustment. Soo should I adjust the back end accordingly to the front end sag or just adjust normaly for the street with those 30-40mm?
I answered your FB message :)
Hey Dave, have to see enough of the new Dunlop Q3+ to form an opinion compared to the Q3? Read your "Dunlop Q3 track day tire initial evaluation", and was wondering if the pressures mentioned there transfer to the new tires. Also, looking for a front wheel chock like you use in your videos. What do you recommend?
Pressures were appropriate that day so +/- 2-4 psi would be the range I would start with and in this case I would start on the high side and work my way down. On the road you should see 4psi gain cold to hot and you can always use the palm of your hand or an infra red tool to assess temps.
Thank you, very helpful :) Which wheel chock are you using?
Hi Dave! Is it better to setup Sag to my bike while the damping valves (Reb and Com) be fully open or with recommended settings from the manufacturer? Öhlins FKS504 cartridge and YA535 Shock on a Yamaha FJ09. Thanks in advance!
You can do it whatever way you want. It is easier to do it with compression and rebound fully open on the forks and shock, or you can leave them at the Ohlins recommended setting.
I was wondering if you could let me know what year and make and model that white bike is? It's beautiful! :) And thank you for the educational videos!
It is a 2015 MV Augusta F3 800 and it is my 1-1 coaching bike on track. Thank you for the compliment!
Thank you for the bike information! And you are welcome!
Any recommendation on a 2015 Fj09? With no preload dialed in I get very little sag in the front but as soon as I touch the front brake the fork bottoms out. I have the preload maxed out now and rebound at 7 clicks in but can still bottom the fork out under emergency braking. The rear is at two clicks from soft on preload and 1.25 in on the rebound. Sag is 1.5 in the rear. Bike has 5000 miles on it now. Bought new 1 year ago.
Add thicker fork oil. I have run 15w for very aggressive riders with an air gap of 110mm as they could not afford springs and new valving. That also helps create a very effective "air spring" component to assist in not bottoming out. th-cam.com/video/EiZY0lcqeR8/w-d-xo.html
Hey dave im a filipino and short. I am wondering if I could have more ground clearance if i adjusted my bike’s sag thanks for the educational videos
If you are short, softening spring tension will bring the bike closer to the ground and help you get one or more of both feet on the ground. Stability is critical, so we need that first. If you are not hitting foot pegs on the ground, you have enough clearance. At that point it is critical to get your motorcycle balanced via rebound damping if you have it.
Dave your info is always spot on had a tire pressure question I have a 88 katana 600 w/ a 750 motor w/ 88 gsxr wheels 90 gsxr fork and a fox shock running Metzeler sportec M7 RR what air pressures would be ideal for sport riding I have them at 33 front and 36 rear psi thanks again all your work is greatly appreciated!
The Katana is not a light bike and the M7RR is a soft carcass tire. I'd be working a range of 38-34 rear and 36-40 front especially if you have stock suspension as there will be a lot of weight transfer.
I am riding s1000rr I have balance sag front n rear, my problem is understeer on power when high-speed what can I do?
Look at tire wear to see what that shows you for front and rear. Generally understeer is from shock sag too soft, shock compression too soft/stiff.
Hello.
Want to ask you all the questions?
I bought a group of zx10r Showa BFF, and I need detailed maintenance
BFF there is no more nitrogen on it. How much nitrogen do I need to add?
Thank you
150psi for the nitrogen pressure
Thank you,
You are so good, teacher
Excuse me,I am sorry to ask you again
I bought a set of BFF, is a scrap pieces, and now is broken down maintenance, I intend to transplant to the CBR1000rr sc57 above, but found a gas gone, how do I detect BFF is normal?
www.showa1.com/en/technology/motorcycle/bff.html
I do not know if you can transplant CBR internals into the BFF but if you have scrap pieces you can compare pistons measurements and see if they are the same as the ones you have. If so, then you need to look at port design to assess flow characteristics.
thank you so much
Dis should be Taught in Schools...
indonesian🖐😃